Muppets move against Corbyn

Written By: - Date published: 10:27 am, June 25th, 2016 - 209 comments
Categories: International, uk politics - Tags: ,

Looks like some UK Labour Party MPs have no idea about the reasons the Brexit vote succeeded. They have attacked Jeremy Corbyn for the result even though Labour voters voted to remain in almost exactly the same proportion that SNP voters to remain.

And with the tories in turmoil and the prospects of a Labour victory at the next election considerably increased what do a group of Labour MPs do?  Ignite a leadership challenge against Jeremy Corbyn that has been simmering ever since he was elected.

From George Eaton at the New Statesman:

The long-threatened coup attempt against Jeremy Corbyn has begun. I reported several weeks ago that Brexit would be “the trigger” for a leadership challenge and Corbyn’s opponents have immediately taken action. Margaret Hodge and Ann Coffey have submitted a motion of no confidence in the Labour leader for discussion at Monday’s PLP meeting. If accepted, it will be followed by a secret ballot of MPs on Tuesday. A spokesman for Corbyn told me it was “time for the party to unite and focus on the real issues that affect peope from today’s decision and hold the government to account on their exit negotiations.”

Any confidence motion would be purely symbolic. But Corbyn’s opponents are also “absolutely convinced” that they have the backing of the 51 MPs/MEPs needed to endorse a leadership challenger and trigger a contest. Letters are expected to be delivered to general secretary Ian McNicol from this weekend. The prospect of a new Conservative prime minister and an early general election has pushed MPs towards action. “We have to get rid of him now,” a former shadow cabinet minister told me. “If we go into an election with him as leader we’ll be reduced to 150 seats.”

The latest polls suggest that the Conservatives are barely ahead of Labour.  With the SNP’s solid grip of the Scottish electorate things are neck and neck.  The former shadow cabinet minister’s comments appear to be based more on prejudice than on current performance.

What the protagonists refuse to understand is that the anti intellectual anti expert brexit vote is fuelled by these careerist bubble games that politicians engage in far too often.  Blaming Corbyn for the loss is crazy especially when it is clear that the Government kept Labour out of the campaign as much as possible.

People will be looking for leadership from Labour.  Descending into a leadership stoush at this stage will only increase disillusionment with politics in general and Labour in particular.

As said by John McConnell in the Guardian:

These are uncertain and dangerous times for all of us. Labour must be at the forefront of putting forward an alternative to the present economic mess, which makes unity more important now than ever. At a time of such economic uncertainty, with the Tory party split clean down the middle, Labour members and voters will not forgive us if we descend into infighting and introspection only a year after Jeremy Corbyn won his landslide victory as our leader.

Update:  the general secretaries of twelve trade unions have released this statement:

The prime minister’s resignation has triggered a Tory leadership crisis. At the very time we need politicians to come together for the common good, the Tory party is plunging into a period of argument and infighting.

In the absence of a government that puts the people first Labour must unite as a source of national stability and unity. It should focus on speaking up for jobs and workers’ rights under threat, and on challenging any attempt to use the referendum result to introduce a more right-wing Tory government by the back door.

The last thing Labour needs is a manufactured leadership row of its own in the midst of this crisis and we call upon all Labour MPs not to engage in any such indulgence.

209 comments on “Muppets move against Corbyn”

  1. dukeofurl 1

    Getting into the detail of your link.
    “Downing Street believed key Conservatives such as Cameron, rather than Labour, should be the dominant message carriers.”

    Im sure the solid remain vote throughout Scotland was because the message had the SNP and Labour and most Conservatives on board.

    The other thing was the right wing press wasnt ‘on side’

    ““Downing Street told us: ‘We won with a risk message in the Scottish referendum in 2014 and 2015, and we could do the same in 2016.’ They were sure the economic risk message would bring the voters back to the status quo.Those messages are fine if they are going to be echoed every day in the rightwing press…

  2. Cricklewood 2

    I think this is behind it, couldn’t find a link to a more recent data set but watching Al Jazeera last night and expert of some description had said that the figures had largely stayed the same up until the vote.

  3. Colonial Viper 3

    UK Labour and NZ Labour have the same careerist DNA.

    When the Scots succeed Labour will never take power in the UK again.

    • tinfoilhat 3.1

      I tend to agree CV, which is why I believe the next tory PM while making all the right noises about the UK and union between Scotland, Wales and NI will be secretly delighted if the SNP leads Scotland out of the union.

      • dukeofurl 3.1.1

        Scotland independence will probably be further away than before. remember the vote only had a few areas for independence in Scotland. Nothing like the mixed result in different areas for Brexit.
        Its well to remember how Quebec got its independence- it didnt, the 2nd vote was even closer, turnout even higher.

        • Lanthanide

          Er, one of the key promises England made to Scotland about Scotland remaining in the union was due to EU membership and EU development aid going to Scotland.

          With that very much now in jeopardy, another vote for independence in Scotland has a much higher chance of going through.

          • Colonial Viper

            dukeofurl seems to very quickly and conveniently forget the promises made by the English to the Scots.

            The Scots have not forgotten however.

            • dukeofurl

              Even the SNP doesnt keep all its promises. Once they were for abolishing the monarchy but now cant curtsey enough.

              • Colonial Viper

                My point stands.

                • dukeofurl

                  of course it does. but without any reasons for it.

                  The Scotland economy is unsustainable without fossil fuels. The current low prices would bring ruin ( Independence day was supposed to be march 24 2016) and the EU is a hard taskmaster if you cant keep with deficit to GDP ratio.

                  You do know Salmonds background ?
                  “Mr Salmond joined the Royal Bank of Scotland (RBS) as an economist and in 1982 was appointed to the post of Oil Economist, which he held until 1987 when he left RBS and was elected to Westminster as MP for Buchan and Banff. ”
                  No wonder they are sitting on fence over the abominable fracking.

                  • Draco T Bastard

                    The Scotland economy is unsustainable without fossil fuels.

                    What a load of bollocks. Every economy is sustainable without fossil fuels. In fact, I’d go so far as to say that fossil fuels are what’s making our economies unsustainable.

                    • dukeofurl

                      It was more under existing circumstances where the governments revenue is boosted by fossil fuel taxes and royalties
                      “Petroleum Revenue Tax (PRT) is a direct tax collected in the United Kingdom… its in addition to company tax”

                    • Draco T Bastard

                      It was more under existing circumstances where the governments revenue is boosted by fossil fuel taxes and royalties

                      Which is a fundamental misunderstanding of economics but I can’t really blame you for that. The world has been badly mis-taught how economics works in the real world, about actual resources. Instead we’ve been taught about money and how it all comes from the private sector which is only right because we incorrectly allow the private banks to create money without limit.

                      If we corrected the money flow to start at the government and end at the government then the government wouldn’t need revenue. The private sector would be dependent entirely upon government spending and most of that would be the UBI.

                      Most importantly, the economy would not be dependent upon any one industry and if the country had enough resources to feed and house people then it would be sustainable.

              • Bill Drees

                The SNP does not courtesy to any knobs. You are a bigoted troll.
                Fuck off dukeofurl

    • dukeofurl 3.2

      They could under another Blair, remember “the party” had 418 seats when only 330 were needed for a majority. Only 56 of those 418 came from Scotland.

    • Stuart Munro 3.3

      Nothing secedes like secession.

    • Whateva Next 3.4

      there may not be a UK again

      • Colonial Viper 3.4.1

        its a rewinding in time, the final winding up of British imperial expansionism

        • whateva next?

          …….seems to happen to all empires in the end, including the ones which invaded Britain. C’est la vie

  4. Cricklewood 4

    A regional rather than national breakdown would be interesting. I suspect a comparison between lab voters in London v lab voters in Northern England would reveal quite different figures.

    • swordfish 4.1

      If you look at it on a city-by-city basis, there’s a reasonable possibility that – even in many Brexit-leaning cities – most Labour voters still chose Remain. That seems to be especially true in the Big Centres of the Midlands and the North – Birmingham, Manchester, Liverpool, Leeds, Nottingham, Sheffield (cities that either stuck with Remain or were fairly evenly divided, some tending mildly towards Brexit).

      There are some obvious exceptions, however. I think it’s a fair guess that a majority of Labour voters (though not necessarily a large majority – 60/40 at the extreme, I’d say) in some of the declining ‘Rust Belt’ urban sprawls and satellite cities in the hinterland of these Large Centres – as well as in a range of Eastern coast Port cities with their decimated fishing industries – chose Brexit. But overall, I’d say they were the exception – the stats suggest that the majority of Labour voters outside Greater London went Remain, albeit considerably less emphatically than in the Big Smoke.

  5. BM 5

    Why would Labour voters want to stay in the EU.?

    • miravox 5.1

      Why would Labour voters want to stay in the EU.?

      Maybe this….?

      The UK right now

      and not forgetting that the impact on household finances will mostly affect the poorest sections of society.

      • Ad 5.1.1

        Nice clip!

      • BM 5.1.2

        The Brexit side believes that leaving the EU will lead to cheaper food prices.

        That’s got to help out poor people.

        I’d also expect to see the UK property market start to deflate which will lead to cheaper living, once again helping the poor.

        • Ad

          The Cabbages are revolting!

          • BM

            Have you tried cutting the cabbage into slices, covering them with a balsamic vinegar and then grilling them for a few minutes quite tasty.

          • dukeofurl

            Food prices rising to the higher levels on the Continent was one of the worries back when Britain joined EU.
            They were used to lower prices from commonwealth. We would charge them market rates now !

        • miravox

          The brexiters believe a lot of things that specialists in the relevant fields don’t. Including economists


          The record 8%-ish slump in the pound on Friday has raised fears that UK inflation could spike (as imports will cost more).

          That would be bad news for poorer citizens, says the IPPR think tank tonight.

          Using Treasury modelling of currency shocks, IPPR finds that a 2.3 percent increase in CPI will increase costs for the poorest households by 3.3 per cent, compared to a 1.6 per cent increase for the richest 10 percent of families.

          • BM

            Change is good as it leads to other opportunities.

            The most important factor here is that England controls it’s own destiny, the faceless bureaucrats in Brussels can go fuck themselves.

            • miravox

              That would include the faceless Nigel Farage MEP?

            • locus

              The UK begged 3 times over 11 years to be let in to the EEC. The reasons they needed to be part of the European community back then are even more pertinent now.

              There are hundreds of millions of Europeans who are proud to be part of the EU, and pleased to have an EU parliament that makes great laws for the whole of Europe, and is fundamentally more transparent and open to scrutiny than many of the factional propoganda driven national governments.

              Sadly for 16 million british voters, plus the overwhelming majority of scots, northern irish, gibraltarians and Lononers who voted to remain, they will lose much of the goodwill and 43 years worth of negotiated EU benefits due to short-sighted narrow-minded , utterly self serving conmen who ran the leave campaign

              • Peter

                As someone who came from the north of England I believe they voted to leave because.
                1 Zero hours contracts.
                2 Minimum wage.
                3 A future on and of the dole.
                4 A retirement fund made out of thin air.
                5 No chance of owning your own home.
                6 Can’t get your children into your local school.
                7 Can’t get to see your local doctor.
                8 Local hospital full aged parents can’t get treatment.
                They had nothing to loose.

                • Hanswurst

                  Couldn’t they just have voted to leave David Cameron, then?

                  • Colonial Viper

                    What, and get the same with Labour?

                  • OneTrack

                    Many of those issues were a consequence of being in the EU and Cameron, who was only the Prime Minister of a vassal state, couldn’t do much about it.

                    • Hanswurst

                      Absolute nonsense. European countries are largely autonomous. The problem is that some Britons associated those issues with Europe because immigrants.

                • KJT

                  I consider it was likely more a vote of no confidence in the anti-democratic and arrogant, UK and EU establishment than most of the often cited reasons.

                  Polls show that more than 50% of the citizens of other EU countries would vote to leave, given the choice.

          • dukeofurl

            There used to be expert consensus too that there would be benefits from UK joining Euro too.
            They statistical models for a lot of these things which in the economic area can lead to much wishful thinking

          • Draco T Bastard

            The other side of that coin is that British products and services will be in more demand thus producing more jobs and increasing wages.

            • miravox

              there is that. The New Economics Foundation believes this won#t happen before poor households are hurt

              First the important depreciation of the British Pound, which is currently underway, means that UK households will suffer – particularly the poorest ones.

              A strong currency depreciation renders imported goods more expensive – relative to domestic goods and domestic wages. In theory people can switch their consumption away from imported goods (e.g. imported foodstuff) towards domestically produced ones. But this assumes that an economy is able to substitute imported goods with domestic production quickly and easily.

              This is currently not the case for the British economy, which has a record-high trade deficit (particularly in manufacturing trade) and is running to the limits of its potential production. The consequence is simple: there will be inflation and people will have to spend more on the items they consume – losing purchasing power and cutting down on their expenditures in the process.

              My main concern with Brexit is that the laws and regulations that the Brexiters hate so much are also the ones that are have held the worst excesses of worker exploitation at bay and are socially and environmentally progressive. There will be no mood in a Tory-UKip world to keep these. My expectation is that a Corbyn-led Labour government would obviously be more sympathetic to these, however I don’t believe there is a lot of leeway to avoid poor households being worse of for quite some time.

              • KJT

                Depreciated currency = more demand for locally made goods, more demand for local workers, more competition between employers for workers. = higher wages = less poverty!

                • miravox

                  Except that after 30 years of neo-liberalism you’re asking the justifiably angry working classes to wait longer (maybe a lot longer if the Tories hold on) to get some benefit from the decision they made 2 days ago.

                  Condemning these people to greater poverty in the short-term will be the result of exiting if the economic reports from the NEF and IPPR are correct, and I’ve not seen anything to suggest they’re not. This is highly likely to be the reason the exiters seem reluctant to invoke Clause 50, I reckon.

                  Asking for trouble. They’re already finding out they’ve been lied to
                  – there won’t be 350mil per wk for for the NHS
                  – Immigration will still continue unabated
                  – Turkey won’t be joining the EU any time soon

                  Votes were based on these lies. If you think the working classes are angry now, just wait to see what will happen if they’re asked to take a little more for the good of the cause.

      • infused 5.1.3

        57% of fuck all is stil fuck all. Congrats. UK use to be one of the biggest trading powers in the world.

        And you AD, you numpty, think this trade is going to suddenly stop.

        • Ad

          The markets will take a few months to digest this.
          But so far it’s fully as expected; tanking.

          Society will love the democratic thrill of it all, but will find they can’t eat their voting paper.

        • miravox

          UK use to be one of the biggest trading powers in the world.

          Do you think imperialism is still an option?

  6. tinfoilhat 6

    Labour have every right to think they might win the next UK election, however, politics in the modern world is more of a personal popularity contest than it used to be, is Corbyn likely to win that part of the contest against the new Tory leader ?

  7. Ad 7

    Hey you Labour MP’s:

    Keep Calm and Carry On

  8. save nz 8

    Leadership stability is key for Labour, and no infighting +10000

  9. Pat 9

    “People will be looking for leadership from Labour. Descending into a leadership stoush at this stage will only increase disillusionment with politics in general and Labour in particular.”

    Although people SHOULD be looking for leadership from Labour(or at least some sensible alternative) I fear the disillusion with mainstream politics has now pushed beyond that…..failed by the existing, people are seeking remedy from the extreme….and its worth remembering you don’t need a majority to bring the game to an end.

    • Colonial Viper 9.1

      Labour still can’t be arsed listening to the voices of the people. They still know better than the unwashed masses, apparently.

      • Richardrawshark 9.1.1

        No CV they just can’t forget Blair, He ruined Labour, and anyone remotely looking neo lib in Labour or pro the remain camp (Corbyn) need to move aside now the public have spoken so Labour rightly are pushing for his replacement.

        This was never a labour VS Tory vote, it was free, democratic, we had representatives from both camps being from both parties.

        The clean up starts , MP’s are questioning there beleifs, if they wish to serve the democratic wishes of the people they read so wrong for so long, I would say a lot of MP’s are having a very thoughtful moment, and that’s happening in both the Tories and the Left.

  10. Paul 10

    We have the same neoliberal muppets here.
    Shearer and Goff come to mind.

  11. ianmac 11

    Talking of Leadership:
    Mr Key says nothing much will change for New Zealand.
    Rod Oram says there are very serious changes and challenges ahead. Who is correct?

    Brexit could trigger a crash of the World Economy and we would be helpless.
    The divorce could take years and business traders cannot wait or be in limbo.
    Our trade in red meat is with Europe rather than UK so with UK going alone their farming sector will tighten up on the rejection of NZ meat.
    And Rod thinks Johnson is UK’s Donald Trump.
    Kim Hill with Rod:

  12. Tory 12

    Why move against Corbyn? Quite simply because he is linked to Cammerons failure. Let’s be clear, BREXIT is great for semi retired professionals such as me but disastrous for the blue collar worker. Scotland may vote for independence but again who wins given currently the UK pays in billions of pounds per year to the help the Scottish economy? The winners are me and losers are working class. Strange times we live in…..

    • mickysavage 12.1

      He is only linked to Cameron’s failure by the right who are trying to spread the blame around.

    • mickysavage 12.2

      He is only linked to Cameron’s failure by the right who are trying to spread the blame around.

    • Richardrawshark 12.3

      Corbyn was in the remain camp. His position now is untenable, with Cameron resigning his options now are nil.

      • RedLogix 12.3.1

        So the 48% of British who voted to stay should resign also?

        • Anne

          Close on 70% of Labour voters appear to have voted to “remain”, and a bunch of brain-addled, entitled Blairite “muppets” (Brit. Labour should publiciy name each and every one of them) balls-up Labour’s chance of winning a fresh election either later this year or early next year.

          Following the angst and anguish of the past 24 hrs, I believe Corbyn’s political philosophy and policies would be ripe for acceptance by the majority of Brits. But no… a bunch of self serving, careerist Blairites want to use the outcome to dump Corbyn cos, cos… he wasn’t their choice. Jesus wept!

          Edit: I see you have said much the same @ 15.1 Redlogix but I’ll leave this here to ‘labour’ the point.

          • KJT

            Britains ABC’s.

            Unfortunately the “left” in both countries have the same contempt for Democracy as the “right”.

      • dukeofurl 12.3.2

        Only 10 labour Mps were for Brexit!

        Does that mean one of them becomes party leader ?

        • Richardrawshark

          Does the UK Labour party require you to be an MP to lead the party?

          Don’t round on me because I threw in one possible reason they want him gone, Not my fault they didn’t think about the reason too much. Either that or he’s a dick and they want him gone, who knows? the in house politics of UK Labour?.

      • Tooting Popular Front 12.3.3

        Corbyn was lukewarm on Europe and has been a Eurosceptic most of his political life. The labour supporters in Britain voted lukewarm for Europe – it seems reasonable to suppose that Corbyn is right in line with his supporters, he listens to them, they vote how they feel.

    • Pat 12.4

      and there you have the reason…..the wealthy prosper at the expense of the rest, regardless of the choice….and when this fails to change that, what next?

    • KJT 12.5

      After they took tens of billions of pounds out of Scotland, especially in oil exports, to pretend that Thatcherism was working.

  13. Foreign waka 13

    The vote was decided on the fact that Brussels is interfering into UK’s politics – as it does in all other EU countries and the anger about this is h u g e – plus the issue of immigration set to increase by millions (64 mil on the move worldwide).
    Essentially, decisions are being made on the back of those who finance with their ever decreasing incomes an every increasing bureaucracy and talk fest. So those who are affected most said with this vote – enough. The mistake by all those who thought that Britain will stay was that they did not recognize, as you do in an ivory tower, that there are now more than 50% that are not getting their fair share and in fact have to pay more and more at the expense of their future survival. Perceived or otherwise. Britain has set the tone, it would not be such a surprise if the EU union falls apart within the next 3 years.

  14. Jenny 14

    It wasn’t the government that kept Labour out of the picture during this campaign. It was the Labour Party itself, who made themselves invisible during this campaign, allowing the UK Idependence Party and the far right to fill the vacuum.


    Instead of UKIP party Nigel Farage,standing before the television cameras, it should have been Jeremy Corbyn.

    If Labour had taken a concerted anti-free trade, anti-TTIP, and anti-corporate-global-rule, platform and recognised the yearning for freedom from the corporate domination by the EU elites, that the NO vote tapped into.
    And if Labour had also tied this into anti-war and support for migrants and refugees, and explained why, they could have won this debate and isolated the Right wing and the Xenophobic racists in UKIP.

    After all it is the EU that is now erecting borders against refugees, and it is EU bombers that have joined the Assad the US and Russian airforces in carpet bombing Syrian cities, with the French airforce flattening the Syian City of Al-Raqqah the so called capital of ISIS.

    It is not ISIS terror, the refugees are fleeing, it is the terror from the air supported and carried out by the West the EU and the US, and for good measure in an act of one-up-man-ship to demonstrate that they too can bomb other countries and get away with it the Russian Federation.

    Add to all this, the massive aerial assault by the West’s darling Assad against his own people, and you can see why an anti-war, pro refugee, anti EU anti austerity platform could have captured the Brexit campaign and isolated the Torries and the UKIP.

    • ropata 14.1

      You are so right. Why do scumbags like Nigel bloody Farage and tory clown Boris Johnson get to be the voice of disaffected the UK working class?

    • Sanctary 14.2

      What bullshit. This referendum was Cameron s idea, not Corbyns. The remain campaign was a fear mongering disaster from a bunch of tin earred neoliberals. Are you seriously suggesting Corbyn should have been part of a campaign where neolib economics was the main plank? The minute Corbyn got up on a stage and common cause with Tony Blair in defense oF neoliberal economic orthdoxy his credibility as a genuine change option would have vanished. Your idiotic idea that Corbyn have been balls deep in defending something his heartland bote doesn’t like would have delivered the Midlands to UKIP, just like Labour’s defence of orthodoxy delivered Scotland to the SNP. Corbyn did enough to keep a foot both camps, while letting Cameron twist in the wind. Only the arrogant establishment Blairites think he should ha e committed suicide by siding with the Tory establishment. It is obvious there is around 40-50 disaffected Blairite MPs the media can run to for a reliable anti-Corbyn beat up. They will defect the moment a Corbyn led Labour wins power in order to defend the neoliberal establishment, mark my words.

  15. Draco T Bastard 15

    But Corbyn’s opponents are also “absolutely convinced” that they have the backing of the 51 MPs/MEPs needed to endorse a leadership challenger and trigger a contest.

    Wonder if they’ll do the decent thing and resign their positions after Corbyn gets voted back in by the membership.

    • RedLogix 15.1

      My thinking too. This is one treachery too far. Not just disloyal to Corbyn, not just to the UK Labour Party, nor even to the people who elected them, but utterly incompatible with any sense of the idea of public duty. It’s a naked, self-interested, ugly power-grab.

      Their actions at this critical moment are crazy-making. It’s Labour’s most valuable opportunity to demonstrate that is worthy of being in government, and these muppets would sooner sabotage it than accept the possibility of Corbyn being Prime Minister.

  16. infused 16

    lol you have no idea. UK Labour is in as much ‘crisis’ as shown by the idiotic way they reacted after the vote. No more silver spoon once they retire now.

  17. Lanthanide 17

    Here’s Corbyn saying he only supports EU at a “7 out of 10” level:

    He also refused to share the stage with any other pro-EU politician, such as David Cameron.

    It *does* present a confused message to the Labour party voters.

    • RedLogix 17.1

      The point is that the EU desperately needed reform.

      You don’t reform things by taking a cricket bat to them.

      • Infused 17.1.1

        Why would it reform? It dosent have to. Thats the whole point

      • jcuknz 17.1.2

        That was what I thought too Redlogic, though as an ex-pom, 62yrs now in NZ I don’t have much interest in those left behind.
        I just hope they remember that nz fed them in the past and could do so now even though they represent just 2% of our export trade I heard somewhere.

        • Mrs Brillo

          If the UK comes back schmoozing the Old Commonwealth, talking about kith and kin, and asking us to be their best trading buddies again, I hope they arrive on their knees.

          And I hope our negotiators have the ovaries to really screw down some punitive deals with the Poms.

          Some of us have long memories, and remember the lies they told us in the 1970s before dumping New Zealand trade and leaving us to scratch for a living.

          Let them discover how a small island nation fares in rough waters. They had it coming.

          • Ad

            Same for all those old colonies.
            Australia. South Africa. India. Pakistan. Canada. British Guyana. Zimbabwe.

            And of course, dem Yankees. Ain’t no point having a ‘special relationship’ when they no longer give any access to Europe.

            Having just determined to decolonize themselves, they will feel what it was like to be the supplicant.

            Perhaps the English can humbly request a larger diplomatic presence in Dublin?

          • Grumpy

            I am having fun in Europe reminding people of that!

      • Draco T Bastard 17.1.3

        Sometimes the only way to get the needed reform is to break the system.

        • Paul


        • RedLogix

          That may well be true DtB, just so long as you don’t mind living with a mess for a while.

          • weka

            Some people are already living with a mess, that’s the point.

            • RedLogix

              Righto … so a bigger mess will help.

              I’m an evolutionary rather than revolutionary kind of guy. And the way evolution works is that successful adaptations only have to be a little bit better than their alternatives.

              Problem is that for thirty years the left has rarely managed to be that ‘little bit better’. The right is united by the power of money and its class instincts, the left eat’s it’s own.

              • weka

                The thing I keep thinking in the past day is that if Remain had won, nothing would have changed for the people that voted Leave out of desperation. There is no incremental adaptation in the right direction in the UK. I don’t think any ensuing mess is good, but I don’t think that the status quo is good either. At least this way something might be forced to change. It’s sad that it’s gotten to that but I can’t see how anything would have changed if Remain had won. Worse, the people that do well out of neoliberalism, even those of us who work to end it, would be ok. We’re not really willing to put the things on the line that would effect real change.

                • Draco T Bastard

                  There is no incremental adaptation in the right direction in the UK.

                  Or anywhere else for that matter.

                  I don’t think any ensuing mess is good, but I don’t think that the status quo is good either.

                  And the status quo won’t bring about the required changes.

                  It’s sad that it’s gotten to that but I can’t see how anything would have changed if Remain had won.


              • Colonial Viper

                I’m an evolutionary rather than revolutionary kind of guy. And the way evolution works is that successful adaptations only have to be a little bit better than their alternatives.

                But sometimes you have to make both a qualitative and quantitative leap. Going from 4 legs to 2, for instance. Or going from not flying to flying.

                The BREXIT vote is about ordinary people raising their voices and putting evolutionary pressure on the elites, left and right, to improve their currently senile, avaracious, morally bankrupt leadership.

                If the power elite do not listen, the volume will be turned up further.

                • weka

                  Very well put CV.

                • One Anonymous Bloke

                  The move from four legs to two took millennia. So did flight.

                  The lure of populism is just as much a tool of the elite as moral bankruptcy and avarice. They’ve been around for millennia too.

                  • weka

                    Nevertheless the pressure is still there in a way that it wasn’t before.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      The pressure to do what, as expressed by whom? As Bill has noted, both “sides” in the “debate” based their arguments on fear.

                      This is probably the most intelligent comment so far: …we now live in a post-factual democracy…

                    • weka

                      You seem to be thinking that the pressure is something intentional coming from specific people. It’s not. It’s a natural consequence of the mess we were already in. At the moment the debate is being polarised, and that is stopping the dynamics from being explored. There are far more than two sides here. It’s not about right or wrong or good or bad, it’s about what is happening.

                      IMO the downsides of Brexit (esp the racism) were happening anyway and set to get a lot worse. Because of globalisation and neoliberalism and the ways in which those things were inextricable. At this point in time I just don’t think it’s possible for the benefits of the EU to exist without shitting on a whole bunch of people. And in the past day I see a whole lot of privileged people upset because they’re going to lose some privileges that in the face of climate change and possible extreme oppression just don’t seem worth it to me.

                      I don’t think open borders are inherently a good thing, so your link doesn’t speak to me.

                    • weka

                      Btw, as for post-factual democracy, can you see if you can find some reliable figures for turnout by age? We were looking before to see if the claim that young people voted overwhelmingly to stay was true or if it was high because lots of young people who would have voted leave didn’t vote (I would guess it’s a mix of reasons).

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      Now you seem to be arguing that, far from being new, all the pressures were already there.

                      I think it’s a mistake to assume that because racists and those whose lives have been ruined by right wing lies took the same side on this issue, that they have now formed some manner of constituency.

                      No doubt Farage or some other dirtbag will make the effort, though.

                    • I liked the link OAB – very good.

                      I really think that any honest and good intention from the exit side will be hoovered up by the bigots and brownshits and used, along with their narrowminded tightly held beliefs of superiority, to isolate that island and demonise others, especially immigrants and refugees.

                    • weka

                      Yes, there were pressures already there, and now there are additional ones. One of them is the fact that the comfortably off are now getting bloody uncomfortable. Might be time for them to do the right thing.

                      “I think it’s a mistake to assume that because racists and those whose lives have been ruined by right wing lies took the same side on this issue, that they have now formed some manner of constituency.”

                      I definitely don’t see them as having formed some kind of constituency, I don’t even seem them as being on the same side (that’s a coincidence as much as anything). I agree that Farage is a huge problem and will do a lot of damage.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      If reports are accurate, the turnout was higher among the elderly, lower among the “working class”.

                      Turnout also seems to have been lower in communities that voted to remain.

                      Goodness knows what to make of that. As Andrew Geddis put it: “the interweb’s voluminous reckons…”

                    • weka

                      “I really think that any honest and good intention from the exit side will be hoovered up by the bigots and brownshits and used, along with their narrowminded tightly held beliefs of superiority, to isolate that island and demonise others, especially immigrants and refugees.”

                      I’ve seen a few harrowing tweets from Brits telling stories like how they’ve just seen a Polish woman on a bus with her kid being told by a Anglo woman that she has to get out now. Horrible stuff and there will be worse. What I want to know is what the tweeters did when they saw this.

                      Because the racists didn’t just appear overnight and being part of the EU wasn’t stopping them from being racist. So time to change what we are doing. A slide into fascism or entrenched bigotry isn’t inevitable. If 48% said remain, are they now going to stand up and do the right things? I suspect many won’t, but I hope enough do.

                    • weka

                      @OAB, complex as fuck is how I’d put it. At the moment the internet seems to be full of people panicking.

                    • Draco T Bastard

                      This is probably the most intelligent comment so far: …we now live in a post-factual democracy…

                      Nope. It’s pretty much a load of bollocks.

                      The ‘experts’ that it’s saying that we should listen to are the ones that advocate for the policies that caused the problem in the first place. Listening to them won’t get you any facts, just more ideology.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      Draco, it’s possible that you know more about this than the people who are actually affected by it.

                      “A prevailing culture of anti-intellectualism…” DIscuss 🙄

                    • @ weka

                      “Because the racists didn’t just appear overnight and being part of the EU wasn’t stopping them from being racist.”

                      true but they are emboldened now and the hardcore will drag the edges and the centre of balance will/is moving. And sadly calls of, “I didn’t mean THAT” and so on will be too little too late.

                      I agree that there is a massive can of worms there and imo that cleaning that out is the goal and I think the vote has made it harder, if not impossible, to do that.

                    • Draco T Bastard

                      “A prevailing culture of anti-intellectualism…”

                      Is too fucken broad which is why I limited it to only the economists and banksters that caused the GFC that have been so bloody wrong – for 200+ years.

                      I think you’ll find that it’s not a case, yet, of general anti-intellectualism but of anti-economists. The people who have promised that things will be so much better if we all do x, y, z but after doing x, y, z the majority are worse off and they only see a few getting richer. After seeing that for a few decades they’re now pushing back.

                      Unfortunately, there isn’t a plan to go with that push.

                    • weka

                      “I agree that there is a massive can of worms there and imo that cleaning that out is the goal and I think the vote has made it harder, if not impossible, to do that.”

                      And yet under Remain it wasn’t going to happen either. Because IMO too many people were too comfortable and so wouldn’t look at the people being left behind. Taking those people out of their comfort might be the only hope there is.

                      There is a similar dynamic here where privileged young people are blaming the baby boomers for not being able to buy a first home. But they’re not agitating for tenancy rights or rent control. And if the economy is tweaked so that they can buy their first home, they’ll be happy to jump on the investment bandwagon and bugger those below. It’s exactly those people that need to radicalise. And when they see someone being harassed on a bus for being an immigrant they need to take action, not just tweet how unfair post-Brexit. It was already unfair.

                  • Colonial Viper

                    The move from four legs to two took millennia. So did flight.

                    We’ve got maybe 10 or 15 years left to avoid the very worst that climate change and energy depletion is going to bring to our civilisation.

                    If our elites do not change very quickly, Trump, Golden Dawn and AfD are going to be primary school bullies compared to who will take power.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      I’d like to see a change away from arguments based on fear 🙄

                    • weka

                      And the people that are feeling scared?

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      …can be manipulated for votes. Dire predictions of unspecified bullies spring to mind.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      If you don’t understand the mood of the electorate, you lose.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      If you say so 😆

                    • weka

                      “…can be manipulated for votes. Dire predictions of unspecified bullies spring to mind.”

                      Yes, and others can be manipulated likewise with different tactics. So?

                      You avoided my question. If you want a move away from arguments based on fear, how will you talk to people who are scared?

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      If you want a move away from arguments based on fear, how will you talk to people who are scared?

                      Arguments based on fear don’t help people who are scared. Pointing that out to them might be one way…

                    • weka

                      Telling people who are scared that they shouldn’t base their arguments on how they are feeling because it won’t work? Doesn’t sound like a useful strategy to me (and patronising). For instance, if you were to tell me that the fear I feel around climate change shouldn’t be part of my arguments for change, I would definitely have to disagree, and if at that point you insisted that I was wrong, we’re not going to get anywhere are we.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      Sure Weka, if that’s how you’d approach it, I guess you’d get nowhere.

                      There’s nothing wrong with acknowledging the fear (especially given that most of us share it) and equally nothing wrong with acknowledging how useless it is as a decision-making tool.

                    • weka

                      So how would you approach it?

                      I don’t know what you mean by using it as a decision making tool. Because “I’m seriously scared of climate change so I’m going to act now” seems as good as anything else that is happening. If you mean that relying on it alone leads to poor judgement, I’d agree with that.

                      Here’s what CV said,

                      We’ve got maybe 10 or 15 years left to avoid the very worst that climate change and energy depletion is going to bring to our civilisation.

                      If our elites do not change very quickly, Trump, Golden Dawn and AfD are going to be primary school bullies compared to who will take power

                      Myself I think time based predictions are hugely problematic, but let’s say that the general sentiment is correct (we have a time within which to act and then it becomes increasingly too late, and that time is now).

                      Then, the fear mongering. Which is that people in power are going to be much much worse if we don’t do x, y, z and this will be really bad for us. Myself, I don’t think that’s a useful way to frame things, but the fear on CV’s part seems a legitimate motivator to me. I don’t agree with what he does after that point, but if he really believes that then what’s the problem? By all means address the claim, but writing it off because it involves fear is a problem, because many people are scared. Telling them they’re wrong somehow to be basing their politics on that, I just don’t think it works. But I am interested to hear how you would approach such a thing.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      I just said how I’d approach it. Start by acknowledging it (the fear), then move on to practical concerns, including the potential for people to exploit that fear.

                      As an illustration, I’d offer a comparison between the strategies employed by Sanders and Trump, and the relative success – in that Sanders has probably achieved something, and Trump’s tanty trainwreck, not so much.

                • Poission

                  The BREXIT vote is about ordinary people raising their voices and putting evolutionary pressure on the elites, left and right, to improve their currently senile, avaracious, morally bankrupt leadership.

                  Two predictions come to pass from the Dilbert Future.

                  Prediction 32 (page 127)
                  In the future, the balance of employment power will change.
                  We’ll witness the revenge of the downsized.

                  Prediction 26 (page 102)
                  In the future, voters will be so baffled that they’ll want smart people
                  with bad hair to tell them what to do.

    • weka 17.2

      “It *does* present a confused message to the Labour party voters.”

      A confusing message about what? The video in your link is very clear.

  18. Adrian 18

    So the richest 15 people in Britain just lost 8 billion pounds, no wonder Bumbling Boris looked so pale and shaken in his ” victory ” speech last night. I’ve rarely seen a polly look so deflated.
    Somebody must have passed him a note that a contract had been let or that they had pictures of him at the other end of the pig that his mate Cameron was cock-choking.
    Etonian Pig Fuckers, great name for a band.

    • Colonial Viper 18.1

      The 0.1% who shifted assets out of the pound beforehand have just made a shit load of money. The real players make a tonne of money out of volatility.

      • Richardrawshark 18.1.1

        🙂 even if it was a pittance.

      • Grumpy 18.1.2

        The currency is recovering. The fluctuations are about the same as we see frequently with the $NZ. The biggest market falls are on the European and American exchanges. Britain has done relatively well so far.

        • Colonial Viper

          The repercussions of the BREXIT are going to take several months to play out in the financial markets. The reaction of the last 24 hours suggests that market fundamentals are broken and that fact has now been exposed.

          As one commentator has said – negative interest rates are coming to every country in the western world because first world economies are now on chemo.

          • One Anonymous Bloke

            The Ken Ring approach: total economic collapse by 2013 2014 2015 2016

  19. Incognito 19

    At the first whiff of power the infighting starts, again. Luckily, that’s where the similarities between UK and NZ Labour Parties stop except perhaps for the fact that they both have thriving ABC factions?

    • Paul 19.1

      The neo-liberal factions in both parties are the problem.

    • Anne 19.2


      I think the NZ Labour Party’s ABC faction has been pretty much disbanded. Thanks Andrew Little.

      If the UK Labour membership vote overwhelmingly to retain Jeremy Corbyn – and at some point surely there will have to be membership vote – then they should demand the leaders of the current coup resign their parliamentary seats forthwith. They might not fully succeed, but I beleive it would shut the ‘muppets’ up once and for all.

  20. Tory 20

    So you have just replaced Neo liberal politics with politics based on nationalism, racism and extremism. The fragmentation of UK politics will see political extremism (left and right) gain appeal. The politics of centralism have a huge challenge; interesting to see that the disaffected voted so strongly for change and change has succeeded in so far that they have jumped out of the frypan and into the fire,.

    • Grumpy 20.1

      I don’t think the old groupings of left and right work anymore. When Conservatives like Boris attract heavy support from the Midlands working class, then that is a serious realignment n British politics. We can see it in the US as well with Only 40% of Bernie supporters willing to vote for Clinton. The message of the right and traditional left are merging.

    • Stuart Munro 20.2

      The nation state is the unit of political accountability – nationalism is necessary to control elite character flaws.

  21. Paul 21

    ‘So you have just replaced Neo liberal politics with politics based on nationalism, racism and extremism. ‘

    I have done nothing!
    The UK, meanwhile, ……..

    • Pat 21.1

      except the politics haven’t changed….yet. The elites probably have one last chance to discard neoliberalism….if they fail to seize that opportunity THEN you may see your politics of nationalism, racism and extremism take control…..I won’t hold my breath however they will learn the lesson.

      • Redelusion 21.1.1

        Is not the leave vote one against the social democratic model of the EU

        • Pat

          no …the leave vote is a vote against the status quo….unfortunately the status quo will likely remain EU or no.

    • Redelusion 21.2

      vote is for conservatism, small government and capitalism

  22. Grumpy 22

    Being currently in Germany, I just can’t help myself and have engaged with many locals who confuse me for English. The a germany honestly just cannot comprehend why Britain should vote to leave. They have no concept of sovereignty, that part of their psyche seems to have been well extinguished from the a german make up.
    Interestingly, the English I have spoken to in the last day all cite concern for the Brussels bureaucracy and although they are almost entirely remain believe that if the EU mandarins had given Cameron just a bit more than they did in the recent negotiations, that Britain would have voted “stay”.
    News coverage seems to focus on the perceived “working class” and “uneducated” leave voters. That sound to me like the old traditional Labour voters who seem to have followed Boris. I can’t see how Corbyn could have countered that.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 22.1

      We should add that to the list of things you can’t see, or are you keeping a tally?

    • Colonial Viper 22.2

      Thanks for the report Grumpy

      • Grumpy 22.2.1

        You’re welcome. Will spend tonight in the hotel bar, should be interesting. My own company, a large Danish Industrial group moved all its production to Poland making its Danish workforce unemployed. At the same time Denmark opened its borders to large numbers of migrant who compete for the low paid jobs available. Huge welfare payments paid for by the few who work mean ridiculously high taxes.
        Globalization = EU = profits for the owners = low wages or welfare.
        Until now the Europeans could see no way to break the cycle. Brexit has shown the way and that’s what the lite is scared of.

        • Colonial Viper

          My own company, a large Danish Industrial group moved all its production to Poland making its Danish workforce unemployed. At the same time Denmark opened its borders to large numbers of migrant who compete for the low paid jobs available. Huge welfare payments paid for by the few who work mean ridiculously high taxes.

          Geeezus. Then you get all these wonderful better off, well educated Labour Party MPs and supporters voting “REMAIN”. They really are out of touch with the ordinary working man.

          • Grumpy

            I have watched this economic suicide from the inside for 25years. How could the elite not know what was to happen in UK and is about to happen throughout Europe? There is a reason EU went after the Balkan and Warsaw Pact states, cheap labour and globalization. The corporations make mega bucks and leave an increasingly impoverished domestic workforce.

          • Grumpy

            But these wonderful better off Labour MPs will die in a ditch for LGBT and migrant rights. Probably attend every Boycott and Divestment protest against Israel too. Nothing like a distraction.

            • Paul

              Easier than fighting for workers’ rights and upsetting international capital.

              • Colonial Viper

                and look womens’ low wages should be equally shit as mens’ low wages

  23. fisiani 23

    The Muppets cannot get rid of Corbyn. The muppets do not choose the leader. Same as NZ Labour. Thus in both countries you end up with an unelectable leader despised by their colleagues but loved by the elitist members who do not reflect the voters.

    • Sanctary 23.1

      You need a job in a Hallmark factory, they are always on the lookout for mindless slogans.

    • ropata 23.2

      WTF are you smoking Fisiani?

      Corbyn was elected by popular acclaim of the party membership not the “elite” inner circle of MPs. The muppets are the Labour MPs who were proven to be woefully out of touch with their own constituency by voting Remain (alongside their true leader David Cameron) and endlessly plotting against Corbyn

      • Redelusion 23.2.1

        No the muppets are corbyn and his labour activist who have lost touch with thier heart land voters in the north who overwhelmingly voted leave Corbym with Cameron both gone burgers

        • One Anonymous Bloke

          Please don’t read any analysis of the turnout before commenting again. It will only confuse you.

          • Colonial Viper

            Outside of London, all the poorer/post-industrial areas of England voted for BREXIT. Midlands, Yorkshire, the North East. Wales too.

            Poorer, lower social class, lower qualified people – the working class kind who used to be core Labour support – were the least likely to vote for REMAIN.

            • One Anonymous Bloke

              Baby steps. The word to direct your attention to is turnout, and the argument it refutes is Reddelusion’s. Not sure what your point is.

              • Redelusion

                Ok OAB only the rich in the north voted,if that makes you feel better

                • ropata

                  I don’t think you can draw any anti-Corbyn conclusions from the Brexit result. It’s more complex than that and highlights divisions all across the UK; on class lines, urban v. rural, English v. Northern, young v. old, …

                  Corbyn’s “support” for Remain was lukewarm at best and there was no way he would appear doing anything to look supportive of pigrooter Cameron

                • One Anonymous Bloke

                  Not really: the demographics make for quite uncomfortable reading when you consider the divisions they represent.

      • Whateva Next 23.2.2

        Agree, it is the Right wing tactic of “divide and rule” working well for them once more, but oh, WHEN will people stop falling for it????

      • fisiani 23.2.3

        The elite are the few thousand people who are members of Labour UK or the 6,000, n0w 4,000 (after the Chinese sounding names fiasco) Labour NZ members who are so out of touch with the hopes and aspirations of the voters. Voters want
        a job – more are employed than ever.
        a pay rise- most well ahead of inflation
        a home – 140 a day being built
        a hospital -more doctors and nurses than ever
        a decent school – NCEA pass rates rising
        free health care for kids, tick
        increase benefits and pensions Tick
        the long list of improvements goes on and on.

  24. Sanctary 24

    Every Scot I know (all under 25) voted to stay both in the UK and in the EU. They (sample size five) will all now vote for independence. Scotland will leave the UK within the next two years and with a huge mandate to do so.

    • Paul 24.1


    • Grumpy 24.2

      Scotland is not a viable state. It stays afloat through EU and UK handouts. Won’t happen. Northern Ireland, on the other hand might leave and join with Eire. Again huge EU handouts.
      Interestingly, UK pay an unbelievable amount to the EU for administration, which is many times higher than the EU pays out to UK.
      With the UK dropping out and no decrease in a EU bureaucracy, the countries left will need to pay more, read Germany and France, who do not get along and France has a growing exit movement it does not want to fuel.

      • Colonial Viper 24.2.1

        Scotland is not a viable state. It stays afloat through EU and UK handouts.

        It’s only digital currency. It has the population, industry and natural resources required to be an independent country.

        Mind you, Scotland will not be a financially viable state if it chooses to join the Euro instead of having its own sovereign currency.

  25. Draco T Bastard 25

    New Statesman: I want my country back

    Finally, someone gave them the opportunity to vote for change, for any change at all. When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like David Cameron’s face.

    This was not just a vote against Europe, but a vote against Westminster and the entirety of mainstream politics.

    Pretty much says it all really. But that’s about the only thing I agree with in that article. The rest of it is just more scaremongering.

  26. KJT 26

    Pretty much says it all.

    ‘Voting to leave the EU is a no-brainer for the Left. The European Union is remote, racist, imperialist, anti-worker and anti-democratic: It is run by, of, and for the super-rich and their corporations. A future outside austerity and other economic blunders rests on winning the struggle to exit the EU, removing us from its neoliberal politics and institutions. Corporate bureaucrats in Brussels working as agents of the big banks and transnationals’ now exert control over every aspect of our lives. Neoliberal policies and practices dominate the European Commission, European Parliament, European Central Bank, European Court of Justice and a compliant media legitimises the whole conquest. This has left the EU constitution as the only one in the world that enshrines neoliberal economics into its text. Therefore the EU is not – and never can be – either socialist or a democracy.

    Against the left’s strategic case for exit is relentless blither and blather from the elitist liberal commentariat: the EU is a social-democratic haven that protects us from the nasty Tories is their litany and verse. This is an absurd fantasy: by design the EU is a corporatist, pro-capitalist establishment. Therefore, it strains credulity that the bulk of the Parliamentary Labour Party and a rump of the trade union movement believe in the myth of Social Europe”.

    After the anti democratic destruction of Greece, leaving is the only rational decision.

    Note the only votes for staying, from the “left” come from privileged and well off, “Chardonnay socialists”.

  27. KJT 27

    Pretty much says it all.

    ‘Voting to leave the EU is a no-brainer for the Left. The European Union is remote, racist, imperialist, anti-worker and anti-democratic: It is run by, of, and for the super-rich and their corporations. A future outside austerity and other economic blunders rests on winning the struggle to exit the EU, removing us from its neoliberal politics and institutions. Corporate bureaucrats in Brussels working as agents of the big banks and transnationals’ now exert control over every aspect of our lives. Neoliberal policies and practices dominate the European Commission, European Parliament, European Central Bank, European Court of Justice and a compliant media legitimises the whole conquest. This has left the EU constitution as the only one in the world that enshrines neoliberal economics into its text. Therefore the EU is not – and never can be – either socialist or a democracy.

    Against the left’s strategic case for exit is relentless blither and blather from the elitist liberal commentariat: the EU is a social-democratic haven that protects us from the nasty Tories is their litany and verse. This is an absurd fantasy: by design the EU is a corporatist, pro-capitalist establishment. Therefore, it strains credulity that the bulk of the Parliamentary Labour Party and a rump of the trade union movement believe in the myth of Social Europe”.

    After the anti democratic destruction of Greece, leaving is the only rational decision.

    The EU has been an anti-democratic, Neo-liberal project, from the beginning.

    Note the only votes for staying, from the “left” come from privileged and well off, “Chardonnay socialists”.

    • Draco T Bastard 27.1


    • miravox 27.2

      Pretty much says it all?

      Every one of those criticisms could be leveled at any variety of government the UK has had since Thatcher!

      Just as national govts are left or right, so is the elected EU parliament. Without doubt, the neo-libs are in charge in the EU at the moment. Saying vote leaving is a good idea because the EU is right wing is like saying you’re swapping one neo-liberal corporatist project for another one, but at least it’s our neo-liberal corporatist project (as an aside I’m pretty sure the social democrats, unlike Labour in the UK made gains in the last EU elections). Working class people subject to the brutality of the neo-liberal era will continue to be subject to that brutality under a UK Tory or so-called third way labour government with or without the EU. Hey, if NZ can do over its own people without the EU, I’m sure our PM’s text buddy Cameron is just as capable of doing the same without the EU!

      A couple of points in the article
      – I’ve no time for what the troika did to Greece. I didn’t see the UK arguing against that. It could have.
      – Student loans are a national, not EU issue. UK has them, Germany doesn’t
      – People in the UK that I know, who are on the left and supported remaining and are not in any form ‘chardonnay socialists.’ Some of their friends and family voted to exit. Of course I know others who are chardonnay socialists (but don’t live in the UK). It’s a mixed bag.

      The trouble with leaving, imo, is important environmental, worker and social protections come from the EU and not the UK government. I base that opinion partly on living within the same EU project as the UK, but without the Tory government.

      I expect the first thing the UK govt will do on leaving will be reduce working conditions, allow fracking, ignore climate change targets and water-down human rights legislation.

    • locus 27.3

      KJT – Neoliberalism is not the basis of the EU. The EU is not all the emotive labels stuck on it by this one-eyed article, nor by the acolytes of UKIP and the Tory right.

      Yes, neoliberalism is a fundamental reason for the increasing divisions in society, but the ideological drivers for neoliberalism don’t come from the EU.

      The EU institutions and government are open to constant scrutiny from all member states, produce good laws and help to create a multinational forum for debate, discussion and stability. Not something I would say about most national governments.

      I’m heartily sick of all the ill-informed smearing and propoganda that is fabricated about the EU. In my view it’s mostly whipped up by racists, extreme nationalists and others with a political grudge wanting to get easy publicity.

      There are the hundreds of millions of people who are very pleased to be citizens of a united European Community. I am one.

      I am gutted by the Brexit vote, the reasons for it, the way the politicians lied and manipulated people during their campaigns, and the massive damage that leaving the EU will inflict on many millions of British people.

      Leaving the EU will take not take just a couple of years for UK governments to negotiate and mitigate – the fallout will take decades to repair.

      The UK would have a huge amount to do to make up for losing 43 years of partnership and membership of the EU, and right now their political leaders are probably thinking about this in a much more serious way than they did during over the last emotionally charged few weeks. It would be a monumental error to invoke article 50.

      Right now I think the first job for the UK government is not to rush for exit, but to try to understand the vote. The regions (and age-groups) that most clearly believe their way of life was being threatened or disadvantaged by being in the EU need to be a priority. IMO disentangling from the EU won’t do anything tangible to reduce the frustrations felt in post industrial and poorer areas of the UK where the majority of the brexit vote originated.

      Will this happen? I sincerely hope so, but it’s difficult to have any confidence in the politicians who lied and manipulated the truth during the referendum campaign. Moreover, it is unlikely that these same politicians have any real desire to listen to, understand and care about the problems of the people who delivered them Brexit.

      I believe that neo-liberal ideology is the root cause of many of the UK’s social and economic disparities, and that without a massive change, this discredited ideological system will continue to deepen the divisions in UK society…… irrespective of EU membership.

      While addressing the needs of the Brexiters, the UK government also has a formidable job to reduce the anger, sense of loss and fears of many millions who wanted to remain in the EU. A good start would be to allay the sense of betrayal that the majority of Scots, Northern Irish, Gibraltarians and the under-30s feel. For them, Brexit was driven by propoganda and lies, and will deny them their rights as citiizens within the wider European community.

      I’m not British or European so I should not have an emotional investment in the UK’s decision, but I do. I have many friends and family who are devastated.

      From the perspective of an outsider I can see that the Brexit decision has immediately led to a loss of international and European respect for the UK, and will result in diminished political and economic influence on the World stage. And while this may not matter to many Brexiters, it matters to many other millions that call the UK and the EU their home.

      I sincerely hope for the sake of the UK and the EU, their leaders now take a long hard look at what led to the Brexit vote, and deal with the root causes, rather than clinging to the fallacy that this is about reclaiming sovereignty and blaming all their ills on the EU.

  28. swordfish 28

    Dang ! Dang ! Dang !

    I’ve posted 3 comments tonight – 1 here and 2 on CV’s post (one of them quite a detailed overview of the geography of the EU vote in the Midlands and the North on a City-by-City basis). All of them have disappeared out into the ether – or maybe into spam ?

    Still, they say life’s a veil of tears …

    [RL: I’ve gone back into Trash and restored them.]

  29. ropata 29

    That’s an old, old phrase…

    Blessed is the man whose help is from thee: in his heart he hath disposed to ascend by steps,

    in the vale of tears, in the place which be hath set. “

  30. mosa 30

    I hope Jeremy Corbyn stands his ground and sees off this attack on his leadership because those that are forcing it are gutless cowards and undemocratic and in the wrong party.
    If he is replaced by a Lab neo lib then the party will split and would have lost the chance to roll back the current system that has a chocker hold on the middle class and working poor.
    And those that want too change their vote not too leave is a good example of why some people should not participate in democracy.

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    Today is the first day of the global climate strike. Led by schoolkids, people all around the world are going to protest to demand action on climate change. New Zealand isn't doing it till next Friday (join us!), but if you want to get active early, there's plenty to do ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    17 hours ago
  • Climate Change: Squandering our opportunity?
    The Herald has a story today about the 400 MW of wind power currently under construction. Good news, right? Except that none of it is being driven by policy (instead, its about replacing Contact Energy's Taranaki Combined Cycle gas-fired power plant, due to shut down in 2022), and most of ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    18 hours ago
  • Protect The King!
    To Protect and Serve: When the Prime Minister finds herself enmeshed in the coils of a full-blown political scandal, her colleagues and party comrades have only one priority: to release her as swiftly – and with as little lasting injury – as possible. Is this what Jacinda Ardern’s colleagues and ...
    18 hours ago
  • The rot at the top.
    When military leaders cover up and lie to elected civilian authorities, the foundation of democratic civil-military relations is undermined because it is those authorities who are entrusted to hold the military accountable to the public that they mutually serve. But this is only true if civilian political authorities take their ...
    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    20 hours ago
  • Challenging the voting age in court
    The Make It 16 campaign to lower the voting age is launching this afternoon, and they have already announced plans to challenge the law in court:The campaign, named "Make it 16" will launch at Parliament on Friday, with plans to take their case to the High Court, testing the rights ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    20 hours ago
  • Israel’s elections herald a long siesta
    by Daphna Whitmore The long years of Netanyahu’s reign are drawing to an end. For years he has epitomized reactionary zionism as he oversaw hundreds of thousands of Jewish settlers seize land in the West Bank. There are now 700,000 settlers, putting an end to the myth that Israel was ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    21 hours ago
  • Petrol companies promise prices will come back down once peace is restored to the Middle East
    BP, Z and Mobil all insist that petrol price hikes are temporary, “in a very literal sense.” The nation’s major petrol providers are trying to allay customer fears over prices, promising that they’ll move to lower them again “immediately” when the Middle East is returned to its formerly peaceful state. ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    1 day ago
  • All Blacks unveil boat for Rugby World Cup 2019
    South African coach Rassie Erasmus says he has no idea what they’re going to do about the boat. In a highly anticipated press conference this afternoon, All Blacks coach Steve Hansen has finally unveiled the team’s boat for its Rugby World Cup 2019 campaign. In a press conference that went ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    1 day ago
  • An increasingly shoddy coverup
    The Operation Burnham inquiry continued to question senior NZDF staff today, and their shoddy coverup over their knowledge of civilian casualties continue to fall apart. If you recall, first, we were asked to believe that it was all a series of "mistakes and errors": a senior officer with multiple degrees ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 days ago
  • If we are to avoid making the earth uninhabitable, we need to rapidly decarbonise our civilisation, and cut emissions to zero as quickly as possible. This seems like an impossible task, but its not. Pushing hard on a few technologies and trends will let us halve emissions in a decade:Greenhouse ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 days ago
  • A further attack on transparency
    The Local Government Act 2002 Amendment Bill (No 2) had part of its committee stage yesterday. its a generally tedious bill about the nitty-gritty of local government reorganisation. But it includes a clause making the Local Government Commission subject to the Ombudsmen Act, and hence the OIA. Great! Except of ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 days ago
  • Ihumātao and Treaty settlements
    Yesterday Ihumātao's mana whenua reached a consensus that they would like their land back, and asked the government to negotiate with Fletcher's for its return. The government's response? Try and undermine that consensus, while talking about how doing anything would undermine existing Treaty settlements. The first is just more bad ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 days ago
  • Protecting our history
    Its Suffrage Day, the 126th anniversary of women winning the right to vote (but not stand in elections) in New Zealand. And to celebrate, the government has bought Kate Sheppard's house in Christchurch:The government has bought Kate Sheppard's former home in Christchurch for more than $4 million. The Ilam villa ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 days ago
  • Climate Change: Ostracising the coal-burners
    The UN climate summit is happening in new York next week, and unlike previous years, coal-burners and denier-states are not being invited to speak:Leading economies such as Japan and Australia will not be invited to speak at next week’s crunch UN climate change summit, as their continued support for coal ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 days ago
  • Jojo Tamihere Salutes Herr Goff.
    Get Back Jojo! The elation in Mayor Phil Goff’s camp may be easily imagined as they watched social media light up in indignation at challenger John Tamihere’s "Sieg Heil to that" quip. Just when JT’s notoriously right-wing, sexist and homophobic stains were beginning to fade back into his ‘colourful’ past, ...
    2 days ago
  • Hard News: A fun but flawed weed documentary
    Patrick Gower is good value when he's high. Not that I've ever, you know, got stoned with him. But in the second part of his documentary Patrick Gower on Weed, he does what you'd expect in a modern weed documentary and immerses himself – first with a doctor, then a ...
    2 days ago
  • Candidate Survey: Western Bay of Plenty – Local Body Elections 2019
    We surveyed candidates on their attitudes to issues facing the Western Bay Region, find out what they think: “Closing the Gap” Tauranga, one of the area groups of Income Equality Aotearoa NZ Inc., has surveyed all candidates in the three local body elections to discover attitudes to some basic issues ...
    Closing the GapBy Tracey Sharp
    3 days ago
  • Project Nettie calls on scientists to defend biology
    Please spread widely, and sign, to support science and rationalism over the new irrationalism sweeping universities and institutions.  PROJECT NETTIE Sexual reproduction, the generation of offspring by fusion of genetic material from two different individuals, evolved over 1 billion years ago. It is the reproductive strategy of all higher animals ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    3 days ago
  • I’m glad I don’t live in Auckland
    Just when I was thinking that Palmerston North's mayoral race (which includes a convicted child molester / public wanker and a convicted child beater) was the worst in the country, Auckland mayoral candidate John Tamihere opened his mouth:Auckland mayoral candidate John Tamihere is being slammed for using the words "sieg ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    3 days ago
  • Index of Power Update, 2018-19: China #2
    We reprint below an article from the excellent website the Economics of Imperialism by Tony Norfield This is an update of the statistics for my Index of Power, using data for 2018-19 and discussing what a country’s ranking reflects. The major change is that China’s rank has shifted up and ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    3 days ago
  • Climate Change: A history lesson
    Why is New Zealand climate change policy so crap? The Herald this morning has a long article on the twists and turns of climate change policy in New Zealand [paywalled / depaywall script], which shows where we've been. The short version is that the government first began worrying about this ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    3 days ago
  • What the All Blacks Mean to Us
    The All Blacks have been, for more than a century, arguably the most successful International sports team in the world. But they are more than that; even for those Kiwis who are immune to the charms of rugby (and there are more than a few), the All Blacks are ambassadors ...
    Bryan GouldBy Bryan Gould
    3 days ago
  • No one is born into the wrong body
    A short and incredibly powerful speech from a young lesbian woman. No one is born in the wrong body. ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    4 days ago
  • Contempt
    Back in June, the UK Court of Appeal ruled that that country's continued arms sales to Saudi Arabia were unlawful. So you'd expect that the UK government stopped approving them, right?Of course not:The government has apologised for breaching a court ruling against the sale of weapons to Saudi Arabia that ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    4 days ago
  • Covering up the cover-up
    Yesterday NZDF officials were put on the stand about the lies they had told over Operation Burnham, making implausible claims that it was all a big mistake. But along the way, we learned they had already been put on the spot about it by a previous Defence Minister, who had ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    4 days ago
  • Not as important as they think they are
    Farmers have been whining a lot lately, about the methane targets in the Zero Carbon Bill, about Canterbury's proposed nitrogen limits, and about the government's new proposals to stop them from shitting in our lakes and rivers. These policies are "throwing farmers under the tractor", they will force farmers off ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    4 days ago
  • Behind Every Good Woman Should Stand – Another Good Woman.
    Alone, Alone, All, All, Alone: To argue that the Prime Minister is the victim of her advisers’ failure to keep her informed may offer Jacinda some measure of exoneration – but only at the cost of casting her as a hopeless political ingénue. A star-dusted muppet, whose only purpose is to ...
    4 days ago
  • Poor quality, poorly educated kiddie ‘Journalists’ spreading fake news
    In times of hysteria about the “World coming to an end” and “rising sea levels” so-called ‘Journalists’ who can barely spell words longer than four letters are having a ball! Though the majority of the Public have worked out that manmade climate change is nothing short of pseudo-science, and the ...
    An average kiwiBy
    4 days ago
  • Chris Trotter on the BFD
    I don't want to give pblicity to certain parts of the internet that are better left to fester in their own irrelevance (I know, a bit like this place) but the listing of Chris Trotter as a 'author' on Cameron Slater's spinoff website, the BFD requires some explanation.Now, I don't ...
    4 days ago
  • Sex is not a spectrum
    The text below is a Twitter thread by Heather Heying that explains the essence of sexual reproduction and it long evolutionary history. She is an evolutionary biologist and a “professor-in-exile” after she and her husband, Bret Weinstein, stood up to supporters of an enforced “Day of Absence” for white staff and teachers ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    4 days ago
  • Climate Change: Trees, aviation, and offsets
    With crunch time for new Zealand climate policy approaching, most of the New Zealand media have got on board with a global reporting effort to cover the issue. There's one strand of stories today about polling and what it shows about changing public attitudes to the crisis, but the strand ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago
  • Pissing-Off The Israelis Is A High-Risk Strategy.
    Dangerous Foes: For those readers of Bowalley Road who feel disposed to dismiss any prospect of an Israeli destabilisation of New Zealand politics, the example of the United Kingdom repays close attention. Ever since the election of Jeremy Corbyn as leader of the British Labour Party, the Israelis have sanctioned, funded and ...
    5 days ago
  • Something to go to in Wellington
    Make It 16, the youth-led campaign to lower New Zealand's voting age, is holding an official campaign launch at Parliament this Friday from 16:30. If you'd like to attend, you can register using EventBrite here. ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago
  • A founding member responds to Peace Action Wellington
    by Don Franks It was a lovely sunny Wellington afternoon with blue skies above  the beaches.  In Courtenay Place, political activists packed out a stuffy upstairs room for an important meeting. The assembled pacifists, anarchists, communists and independent young radicals of Peace Action Wellington felt the need for a mission ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    5 days ago
  • “Mistakes and errors”
    Current and former NZDF top brass are being publicly grilled this week by the hit and run inquiry over their public responses to allegations of civilian casualties. Previously, they've claimed there were no casualties, a position which led them to lie to Ministers and to the public. Now, they're saying ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago
  • “Homosexuality is same-sex attraction and relationships, not heterosexuals with delusions of gende...
    by Rafael D. Quiles (gender-critical gay man from Puerto Rico) The writing on the wall is right in people’s faces and people just don’t see it or don’t want to. What could actually possess a heterosexual male to want to feminize himself and claim that he is a lesbian? Because ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    5 days ago
  • Trump: “Where’s my favourite dictator?”
    From the Wall Street Journal:Inside a room of the ornately decorated Hotel du Palais during last month’s Group of Seven summit in Biarritz, France, President Trump awaited a meeting with Egyptian President Abdel Fattah Al Sisi. Mr. Trump looked over a gathering of American and Egyptian officials and called out in ...
    6 days ago
  • Magdalen Burns, 1983-2019, fighter for women’s liberation
    by the Redline blog collective At Redline we are very saddened to hear of the death of Magdalen Burns who passed away on the morning of Friday, September 13 (British time). Magdalen was a great fighter for the rights of women in general and lesbian women in particular, a defender ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    6 days ago
  • Parliament and the Executive
    The Brexit issue has certainly brought with it a series of apparently difficult constitutional issues, many of them concerning the respective roles of the executive and parliament. Most of them arise because of the unwillingness of MPs, despite their professions to the contrary, to be bound by a constitutional rarity ...
    Bryan GouldBy Bryan Gould
    7 days ago
  • The Abigail Article; Martyn Bradbury’s Article, and My Response
    . . This blogpost is different to my usual format of reporting on issues… Since July 1011, I have blogged on a variety of political issues; near always political and/or environmental; mostly highly critical of the previous National Government. Other issues included Israeli occupation of Palestinian lands and repression of ...
    Frankly SpeakingBy Frank Macskasy
    7 days ago
  • Police will have to wear silly Buckingham Palace hats from now on, says Police Minister
    Those close to the Police Minister believe the initiative may be the result of Nash “seeing a great deal” on AliExpress. In a move that comes seemingly out of nowhere, Police Minister Stuart Nash announced this afternoon that he expects all frontline staff to don bearskin hats, famously worn by ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    1 week ago
  • A sensible crackdown
    The government has released its Arms Legislation Bill, containing the second tranche of changes to gun laws following the March 15 massacre. And it all looks quite sensible: a national gun register, higher penalties for illegal possession and dealing, tighter restrictions on arms dealers and shooting clubs, and a shorter ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • California bans private prisons
    Private prisons are a stain on humanity. Prison operators explicitly profit from human misery, then lobby for longer prisons terms so they can keep on profiting. And in the US, prison companies run not only local and state prisons, but also Donald Trump's immigration concentration camps. Faced with this moral ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Why PPPs are a bad idea
    When National was in power, they were very keen on Public-Private Partnerships (PPPs) - basicly, using private companies to finance public infrastructure as a way of hiding debt from the public. They were keen on using them for everything - roads, schools, hospitals. But as the UK shows, that "service" ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • A Movement That No Longer Moves.
    Moving And Shaking: There was a time when people spoke matter-of-factly about the “labour movement” – a political phenomenon understood to embrace much more than the Labour Party. Included within the term’s definition was the whole trade union movement – many of whose members looked upon the Labour Party as ...
    1 week ago
  • NZ ‘left’ politically embracing extreme postmodernism
    by Philip Ferguson Much of the left, even people who formally identify as marxists, have collapsed politically in the face of postmodern gender theory of the sort pioneered by American philosopher Judith Butler. For Butler even biological sex is socially constructed. “If the immutable character of sex is contested, perhaps ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • The obvious question
    The media is reporting that the (alleged) Labour party sexual assaulter has resigned from their job at Parliament, which means hopefully he won't be turning up there making people feel unsafe in future. Good. But as with everything about this scandal, it just raises other questions. Most significantly: why the ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • The moment I found out that you found out, I acted swiftly
    By Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern I am every bit as angry as you are. I am every bit as disappointed as you must be. The people with power, oversight and the ability to do something about these processes within the Labour Party should be ashamed. Whoever those people are, I ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    1 week ago
  • This is why people hate property developers
    Property developers think there is an "oversupply" of houses in Auckland:High turnover rates and falling prices may be a sign that there are too many new houses going in to some parts of Auckland, commentators say. [...] Property developer David Whitburn said there was a "bit of an oversupply" in ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Australia to Pacific: “Fuck you, you can all drown”
    World leaders are meeting in New York in two weeks for the 2019 Climate Action Summit, where they are expected to announce new and more ambitious targets to stop the world from burning. But the Australian Prime Minister won't be there, despite being in the USA at the time:Scott Morrison ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Implausible ignorance
    Labour Party president Nigel Haworth resigned yesterday over the party's sexual assault scandal. But while that's good news, its unlikely to take away the stench of a coverup. Because according to Paula Bennett in Parliament yesterday, pretty much everyone in the Prime Minister's office was involved as well:I have been ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Labour’s Fatal Flaw.
     Two-Faced? Labour insiders' commitment to the neoliberal status quo puts them at odds with their party’s membership; its trade union affiliates; and a majority of Labour voters, but this only serves to strengthen the perception they have of themselves as a special elite. Among the lesser breeds, they’ll talk up a ...
    1 week ago
  • Ten reasons the Tories do NOT want an election
    There has been a lot of talk about Boris Johnson wanting an election, and he has blustered with great gusto about 'chicken' Jeremy Corbyn refusing one, but I think there are many reasons why he is secretly glad he has been refused the opportunity:The Tories are an utter rabble,tearing themselves ...
    1 week ago
  • Prorogation Illegal, rule Scottish judges
    Scottish appeal court judges have declared that Boris Johnson’s decision to suspend parliament in the run-up to the October Brexit deadline is unlawful. The three judges, chaired by Lord Carloway, Scotland’s most senior judge, overturned an earlier ruling that the courts did not have the powers to interfere in the prime ...
    1 week ago
  • Let me explain what I meant by Everyday New Zealanders
    By Simon Bridges. The following is a press release from the office of Simon Bridges, leader of The National Party. Key ora, New Zealand. Happy Maori Language Week. Look, I’m writing to you today because I want to clear something up. There’s been a lot of kerfuffle around some things ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    1 week ago
  • Yes, the SIS is subject to the Public Records Act
    I understand there's some stuff going round about how the SIS "was removed from the list of public offices covered by the Public Records Act in 2017". The context of course being their records derived from US torture, which will be disposed of or sealed. The good news is that ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • An evidence-based discussion of the Canadian fluoride/IQ study
    Dr. Christopher Labos and Jonathan Jarry discuss the recent Canadian fluoride/IQ research. They provide an expert analysis of the paper and its problems. Click on image to go to podcast. The critical debate about the recent ...
    1 week ago
  • Climate Change: Australia in denial
    Australia is burning down again, and meanwhile its natural disaster minister is denying climate change:Australia’s minister responsible for drought and natural disasters, David Littleproud, has said that he doesn’t “know if climate change is manmade”. Clarifying earlier comments that the question is “irrelevant” when considering the Coalition government’s response to ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Philippines activist speaking on the Duterte tyranny
    Auckland Philippines Solidarity is excited to host Professor Judy Taguiwalo for a speaking tour of NZ in September. She is a well-known activist in the Philippines and was a political prisoner under the Marcos dictatorship. Professor Taguiwalo briefly served as a Cabinet member under President Duterte but was forced from ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • Disgust
    I have no special insights to offer on the Labour sexual assault coverup. All I have is disgust. Disgust that an organisation could fail its people so badly. Disgust that they punished the victims rather than the perpetrator. Disgust that its party hacks are apparently blaming the victims for demanding ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Speak Up for Women calls out Greens’ censorship
    This open letter to the Green Party was penned after an opinion piece by Jill Abigail, a feminist and founding member of the party, was censored by the Greens’ leadership. (Redline has reprinted her article here).The intolerance of the Green Party leaders and their acceptance of the misogyny of gender ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • Member’s Day: End of Life Choice, part 3
    Today is a Member's day, and David Seymour's End of Life Choice Bill continues its slow crawl through its committee stage. They're spending the whole day on it today, though the first hour is likely to be spent on voting left over from last time. After that they'll move on ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Flight to Los Angeles turned back after passengers decide they don’t want to go anymore
    An ambitious plan to fly to Los Angeles petered out into a brief sight-seeing trip and a desire to return home and get some sleep before work tomorrow. Air New Zealand has confirmed a flight to Los Angeles last night was turned back about a quarter of the way into ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    1 week ago
  • Indigenous Futures: defuturing and futuring – an analytical framework for policy development?
    There appears to be consensus – by omission – that the concept of indigenous futures should be accepted at face value. So I scavenged the internet to see if I could locate an academic descriptor or a framework around how we think about it as a concept, and whether it ...
    EllipsisterBy Ellipsister
    1 week ago
  • Cadbury rumoured to be releasing the Pineapple Trump
    Here’s another novelty chocolate to shove in your gob, New Zealand Cadbury could be seeking to make itself great again with a rumoured new release: Pineapple Trumps, a spin on its classic chocolate-encased pineapple treat and do-it-yourself tooth remover. The global confectionery manufacturer and bumbling “before” character in an infomercial, ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    2 weeks ago
  • The coming resource war.
    During my time in the Pentagon I had the privilege of sitting down with military leaders and defence and security officials from a variety of Latin American nations. Sometimes I was present as a subordinate assistant to a senior US defence department official, sometimes as part of a delegation that ...
    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    2 weeks ago
  • Māori Language Week with The Civilian
    Kia ora, Aotearoa. It’s that magical time of year. Te Wiki o te Reo Māori. In English, the week that frightens talk radio. As you probably know by now, all your favourite media outlets are participating, some more successfully than others. Stuff has changed its name to Puna for the ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Will Horizons act on climate change?
    Local body elections are coming up next month. And it looks like all Palmerston North candidates for Horizons (the Manawatu-Whanganui Regional Council) want to take action on climate change:Climate change is set to be a key issue in Palmerston North for the next three years if those wanting to get ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • BORA reform is stalled
    Eighteen months ago, the government promised to strengthen the Bill of Rights Act, by explicitly affirming the power of the courts to issue declarations of inconsistency and requiring Parliament to formally respond to them. So how's that going? I was curious, so I asked for all advice about the proposal. ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Corbyn and Brexit
    As the Brexit saga staggers on, the focus is naturally enough on the Prime Minister and his attempts to achieve Brexit “do or die”. But the role played by the Leader of the Opposition is of almost equal interest and complexity. The first problem for Jeremy Corbyn is that he ...
    Bryan GouldBy Bryan Gould
    2 weeks ago
  • A ditch for him to die in
    Last week, English Prime Minister Boris Johnson boldly declared that he would rather die be dead in a ditch than delay Brexit. Unfortunately for him, the UK parliament accepted the challenge, and promptly dug one for him. The "rebellion bill" requires him to ask for and secure yet another temporary ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Warning! Warning! Danger Jacinda Ardern! Danger Marama Davidson! Warning!
    Lost In Political Space: The most important takeaway from this latest Labour sexual assault scandal, which (if I may paraphrase Nixon’s White House counsel’s, John Dean’s, infamous description of Watergate) is “growing like a cancer” on the premiership, is the Labour Party organisation’s extraordinary professional paralysis in the face of ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Union solidarity with Ihumatao land occupation
    by Daphna Whitmore Every Sunday for the past two months unionists from First Union, with supporters from other unions, have set out to the Ihumatao land protest, put up gazebos and gas barbeques, and cooked food for a few hundred locals and supporters who have come from across the country. ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    2 weeks ago

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