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Musings on Dead Cats and Sick Parrots

Written By: - Date published: 10:35 am, January 24th, 2016 - 99 comments
Categories: crosby textor, Media, Politics, spin - Tags: , , ,

Tory spinners have a tactic called “the dead cat (h/t for the link to RedLogix). It’s a monumental derail of the nation-wide conversation as soon as your opponent shows signs of gaining momentum, especially if that momentum is largely on the back of a single issue. In the UK case Labour was gaining momentum by cracking down on non-resident tax avoiders (sound familiar?). In NZ, for example, Labour was confronting government inaction on Australia’s abuse of NZ citizens (even if some of them are “citizens” in paperwork only) when Key literally yelled that Labour supported rapists. The objective is to derail the conversation into a general expression of outrage at the dead cat.

That works effectively on polls and changing the strategic narrative, but it seems to me that the tactic has been adapted for use in social and conventional media.

The dead cat is, in its essence, a bullshit argument: the user doesn’t care whether the argument is true, false, or even relevant to the argument. The objective is to get people arguing about the cat, and if someone accuses the cat-thrower of being disingenuous then the next move is to complain about personal abuse.

Consider r0b’s recent post on how media is following the standard capitalist gameplan to slow public reaction to the harm their profitable exploitation is causing – deny it exists then stall about definitions, measurements, projections, and so on. But a modern tweak on the behaviours of tobacco producers, asbestos mine owners, and slave traders is that the prevarications aren’t “lies”, because truth is irrelevant to their activities. It’s not so much a”dead cat” as a “sick parrot”. That’s why jamie whyte cut&paste plagiarises himself: whether his decade-old bullshit on the UK applies to NZ today is irrelevant. It resets the argument for some into “does poverty even exist?”, and provides a quick “sick parrot” for other bullshitters to distract other debates.

Sick parrots are more subtle than dead cats. Passers-by might not know that this is the fiftieth variation on the same bullshit this week, so can’t understand why the recipient is getting shirty. But the responses are limited:

a) let the bullshit lie – but then it sets like concrete and the bullshitter claims victory from the jaws of chronic boredom.
b) clean up each instance of bullshit, which is basically what the bullshitters want because their supply is practically eternal.
c) try to focus on the original point, or relate the sickness of the parrot to the original point while you give medical treatment. But it still just leaves the bullshitter able to throw another sick parrot onto the table.
d) Call the bullshitter out on why they have such a supply of sick parrots – but then the bullshitter who previously couldn’t manage basic math suddenly breaks out the thesaurus and complains about personal abuse.

So does anyone have any ideas on how to deal with dead cats and sick parrots? Otherwise I fear we’ll be stuck with each bullshitter until they jump the shark and pick up a ban.

Note: this post is about dead cats and dealing with bullshitters. It’s not about the existence of poverty or any other derail. Keep a tight focus on this one, folks, and I’ll try to do the same.

McFlock

99 comments on “Musings on Dead Cats and Sick Parrots”

  1. Descendant Of Sssmith 1

    The one that’s recently started populating here is on my mental pop-up blocker. I don’t ever see his/her acerbic postings.

    Pop-up blockers work well for my PC they work just as well for my brain.

    • McFlock 1.1

      lol the trouble is that sick parrots try to sneak through the popup blocker.

      Everyone can see a dead cat: any argument that it is in fact alive quickly becomes derivative of Monty Python.

      But how sick is a parrot? Is it a type of parrot, or is it another type of bird? At face value, the parrot is reasonable, plausible and maybe even relevant. It’s only after you examine it that you realise that it is none of those things, that all someone did was cut and paste some bullshit.

      And the most recent one is only the most obvious example, because it releases unmitigated bullshit all the time. Look at how the first comments on r0b’s post about Labour’s proposal to reduce tertiary student fees: staff/student ratios and allegations of fat in university expenditure. Slighty relevant to the post, but ignores the research function of universities and quickly devolves into whether IT support departments are needed. But if the initial comment had been left to stand, the problems with it would never have been exposed.

      • Descendant Of Sssmith 1.1.1

        I get that but in this particular case I didn’t feel there was anything to be gained in spending energy.

        There’s always been a certain type of individual, both in real life and in trolling, where feeding them (usually a him) re-inforces the behaviour.

        Not engaging with those people isn’t defeatist – it’s a positive step. It’s a decision I made with some thought.

        • weka 1.1.1.1

          I agree tht not engaging is a positive step, but on its own it doesn’t work for anyone other than the person doing the ignoring (and sometimes not even then). Because if ten other people in the thread keep on engaging then that’s where the energy of the conversation goes. Many of us have tried not engaging with various derailments here and find that we end up talking to ourselves.

          Having said that, there are enough of us here now that are sick of the derailments that if we made an effort to go have a proper conversation with the other people around who are also not engaging it would probably change things quite a bit. I try and do this, and I still think that something needs to be done about the people still engaging.

          • McFlock 1.1.1.1.1

            I tend towards the opinion that exhaustive engagement is better than ignoring. It’s not just about trying to nail a final resolution in that debate, but it also includes learning the parrot-thrower’s skillset.

            In that way I tend to believe that a lot of initial work prevents longer-term annoyance. Although others differ.

            • marty mars 1.1.1.1.1.1

              +1 yep exhaustive engagement is better than ignoring imo2. Perhaps the only answer is to learn their little wee tricky tricks, their wee ways, their flaws and point them out so the glare obviously.

          • Pat 1.1.1.1.2

            how about a moderator added tag…….say a stylised cat or parrot….extra work for them i know

        • McFlock 1.1.1.2

          fair enough

  2. Pat 2

    if it is this forum only you are talking about then the only option is not to engage……if its the wider community then Id suggest the likely ultimate response is a version of the guillotine.

    that it is a very effective strategy is why it is used….but requires those using it to have no ethics or morals.

    it also can’t be effective without a compliant MSM…and that angle is well and truly covered

    • McFlock 2.1

      Refusal to engage with comments that are, on the surface, plausible and even relevant is just as bad as arguing, IMO. And there has to be a less defeatist response than to just let them sow their bullshit.

      Sanders seems to be pretty good at calling them on it – I must watch more footage of him.

      • Pat 2.1.1

        the suggestion of refusing to engage is on here and take your point about a surface plausibility…but once said animal identified it is time to go.

        in the wider public sphere is a different story….the target for the cat or parrot is the relatively disengaged busy middle voter who gets their position from the MSM (we could debate the sense or prevalence of that)…..how it can be countered there without support from the MSM is a sticky problem indeed

        • One Anonymous Bloke 2.1.1.1

          I take inspiration from the fact that Fox News’ behaviour is illegal in Canada.

    • Tautuhi 2.2

      … or the boil up pots?

    • McFlock 2.3

      Right, can we leave off the machismo now? We’re talking about jerks. Pots and blades aren’t needed. We can use our natural wordiness.

      • Pat 2.3.1

        Pots and blades aren’t needed. We can use our natural wordiness.

        was not advocating ,merely noting where things lead when there is no recourse

        • McFlock 2.3.1.1

          That’s what the best extortionists say – subtle threats as statements of fact.
          Wee bit butch for a duscussion on debating tactics, in my opinion.

          • Pat 2.3.1.1.1

            at the risk of being off topic…a. it was hardly subtle….and b. nor was it a threat.

            are you seriously suggesting that a dismissal of a significant segment of society will elicit nothing but placid response? …history would show otherwise.

            People don’t react well when they find they’ve been taken for fools, some react worse than others

            http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jan/23/mps-need-help-against-violent-public

            • McFlock 2.3.1.1.1.1

              All that’s as maybe.

              But I’m not sure that NZ is anywhere close to bloody revolution just yet. I just wanted to know people’s thoughts on how to deal with people who “debate” in bad faith. Going to guillotines seems just a bit… much.

              • Pat

                I may have been mistaken, but took the parent post to be an exploration of the tactic both here on TS and in its wider application in politics….obviously my guillotine reference was in relation to the later.

                • McFlock

                  Still seems a bit much for debates in the House: Key says Labour supports rapists, so there’s a riot and half of Cabinet is decapitated.

                  I can’t help but think there’s a midpoint between violence and doing nothing when it comes to an argument.

                  • Pat

                    the point I was attempting to make with my Guillotine reference was if you remove the traditional avenues of redress and don’t replace them, then those who feel aggrieved will see no other alternative…the CT dead cat tactic facilitates the removal of our democratic institutions by keeping the incumbents in the power.

  3. Ad 3

    These tools are just as open to any other political party.
    The left just lack practice.

    • McFlock 3.1

      These are not weapons anyone should be using. It’s a perversion of democracy.

      What we need are defences against those weapons, not expertise in using them.

      • marty mars 3.1.1

        + 1 yep fuck dropping down to their underground levels just to win

      • One Anonymous Bloke 3.1.3

        Yeah – this is what people like Lusk want, since it leads directly to electoral cynicism and disengagement.

        • weka 3.1.3.1

          And it lends truth to the accusations that the left do it too.

          • Colonial Viper 3.1.3.1.1

            I don’t get it, honestly.

            Hasn’t Jeremy Corbyn showed all of us that there is popular support and indeed serious electoral thirst, for an honest exposition of principled, original Labour values.

            Despite the UK MSM slamming him at every turn, including the ostensibly left wing Guardian.

            Of course, if NZ Labour can’t pull together an authentic exposition of principled, original Labour values, then they will have to resort to stupid MSM/PR tricks, memes and soundbytes.

            • McFlock 3.1.3.1.1.1

              Yes dear.
              Now, how was that relevant to my post?

              • One Anonymous Bloke

                😆

              • Colonial Viper

                Re relevancy – if Labour was authentic in expressing its original values, it wouldn’t have to stoop to kowtowing to a hostile media and the cheap PR tactics you outline.

                • One Anonymous Bloke

                  Diversionary troll deploys flamebait, hasn’t quite figured out the “sick parrot” routine yet.

                • McFlock

                  So, basically, the relevance of your comment is thinly based solely on a subjective assertion (Labour “kowtowing”) that would require an extensive off-topic argument to resolve. That’s the “sick” bit.

                  Of course, the “if Labour was authentic in expressing its original values” (as you see them) it would get elected routine is a constant hypothetical assertion by yourself. That’s the “parrot” bit.

                  So, take your sick parrot and fuck off. You’re obviously incapable of addressing the topic of the post. Go away.

                • Tautuhi

                  You have to have John Keys permission to use MSM?

            • Tautuhi 3.1.3.1.1.2

              Trouble is MSM is controlled by the Tories so the message will not be heard?

              • McFlock

                This post is about defeating sick parrots here, and in the street, and in the media, and in parliament.

                It’s not about whether Labour would gain support if its policy manifesto consisted of what CV wants.

        • Tautuhi 3.1.3.2

          Where is Simon Lusk?

  4. Lanthanide 4

    It’s not sick, it’s just pining for the fjords.

  5. tough one this – any engagement with them just bolsters them, any lack of engagement encourages them

    a repository of previous bullshit might be nice or a colour code on their name for shit technique users

    as for real time – just ban the bastards – no one is obligated to be nice to dead cat lovers and when really looked at, they reduce the debate, never add anything to it – they waste all our energy and time

    big ups to those who fight them – I appreciate your efforts

    • Pat 5.1

      does it really matter on here if you let their bullshit stand unengaged?…….the people on here (non cat throwers) have the inclination to seek out information for themselves and will likely appraise it on its merits….i suspect most trolling on here is a practice exercise to ascertain likely counters …..and the usual troll mentality of because it amuses them.

      • McFlock 5.1.1

        Interesting point about it being a training exercise. Beware staring into the abyss, and all that 🙂

        • Pat 5.1.1.1

          lol…think most of the obvious cat throwers on here have had the abyss stare back at them past the point of no return already

        • weka 5.1.1.2

          My experience from here and other online spaces that have debate culture is that mostly people just like the arguing. So the energy and momentum is going to be in the conversations that have that charge to them. Plus the entertainment factor. So the problem isn’t just the trolls, it’s the troll warriors as well.

          However I have hung out in places with better debate culture than here, and that’s largely down to different moderation policy. Trolling and abuse is much less tolerated and this raises the standard of debate because people can’t just get sucked into the clever bickering as much any more.

          I think trolling and dropping Sick Parrots aren’t the same thing and we should differentiate between them. A Sick Parrot might be utilised by someone trolling, or it might be utilised by someone engaging in Dirty Politics, or someone just wanting to fuck with the debate. They’re not the same thing.

        • Pat 5.1.1.3

          it assumes of course that some, at least of the serial cat throwers are professional in nature…given CTs known MO it seems reasonable to expect co-opted research and trialling

    • McFlock 5.2

      cheers

      I suspect a general bullshit repository (“shittipedia”?) would quickly mirror the size of the interwebz, but I think there are one or two focussed on the climate change “debate”. But then one gets into linkwars with the little blighters.

      One thing that seems to move things on slightly is to be very precise and clear about where the disagreement lies, and how it relates to the original point. Avoid pronouns like the plague. That minimises the “pffft, your counterexample relates to Irene, I’m talking about Irena” pivots by the parroter.

      • One Anonymous Bloke 5.2.1

        then one gets into linkwars with the little blighters.

        I suspect such lists are of equal value to debunkers and parrots alike, assuming the parrot is willfully dishonest.

  6. madtom 6

    “Passers-by might not know”

    I’ve seen these tactics in action, but never knew they had established names.

    I see no way to go through an explanation every time, as those who most need to be reached won’t bother with the (for them) lengthy thought processes required.

    So the best tactic I can think of is to start to use these terms, loudly, whenever appropriate. Use them as if they are decisive and unarguable epithets. I hear the opposition benches rhythmically chanting “dead cat” in unison.

    Sooner or later, more people will take the time to learn the meaning of “dead cat” and “sick parrot”, as they are heard more often. The meme will get chunked into one lump of meaning, not requiring any lengthy explanation, and providing a mental shortcut by short-circuiting the tactic. One hopes. I also hope that someone else has a better idea.

    • weka 6.1

      That’s what I’m thinking too. Just commented below, that I think the naming it is a learned skill, and that here on ts we need to define really clearly what a Sick Parrot is (Dead Cat seems pretty well defined already).

    • One Anonymous Bloke 6.2

      Another such term is “zombie argument”, and yes, I agree with you and Weka: naming it is a good idea.

  7. weka 7

    In terms of online behaviour, esp here in ts, I think one useful tactic is name the behaviour (without abuse or putting in your own hooks) and then move on. Don’t engage on their terms. Learning how to name the behaviour takes time. The not engaging is the harder thing to do, because sometimes you have to keep naming the behaviour. Not engaging on its own doesn’t work, not least because other people just keep engaging.

    In naming the behaviour I think it’s important to be specific, and to resist the temptation to lump all annoying behaviour under the same banner (eg calling all derailments trolling). Having the term Sick Parrot is going to be a boon, and we’ll need time to establish what it means esp here on ts.

    So the gold standard example of the Dead Cat tactic is Key’s “you support rapists” attack. It’s very specific and clearly demonstrates what the dynamic is. I assume the one for the Sick Parrot is pointed to in r0b’s thread on poverty denialism, but it’s not as clear.

    The other tactic would be for moderators to simply move such comments to Open Mike (and name them for what they are). Kind of like a sin bin (not that that’s what OM should be). But I think the commenters still need to take responsibility for how the conversation goes where it happens.

    Good post McFlock, and a conversation that really needs to be had here.

  8. Keith 8

    The oppostion must set the agenda but realise it has a life of less than a week or about as long as it takes David Farrar and his helpers to focus group and poll. Then the opposition must move on to something e;se. Key is basically fucked without Farrar etc writing the script and giving paint by number directions.

    Last week the “Dead Cat” award had to go to regular awardee Paula Bennett for her fuckwittery and musings of transferring Auckland state house dwelling Samoans and Tongans to South Island small towns. By the end of that day it transpired that neither suggested town had any spare state housing stock, which Paula must have known. But by then whatever else was troubling National was forgotten and therefore her effort was a wonderful little distration.

    God forbd we ever, ever get the truth from the National Party!

    • Pat 8.1

      yes but the MSM coverage hasn’t yet asked why or how a Minister could make such an unworkable proposition given the resources available to her….at least not in any of the coverage I’ve seen/heard…surely this raises questions of competence that need to be asked?

    • McFlock 8.2

      I tend to agree, but it’s off topic.

  9. Tautuhi 9

    Red Herrings is what they used to call them, National and Crosby Textor are masters at throwing out red herrings, I heard through a colleague how one Government Department was panicking about some bad news and was desperate to find some other story to distract the public?

  10. fisiani 10

    Here’s a possible cat. What if the Labour government of 2007 is the last ever Labour government in NZ. Surely not implausible when we look at history.

    • Colonial Viper 10.1

      My take is slightly less negative, Fis: that there will be one more one term Labour Government down the track, but that’ll be it for Labour.

    • Tautuhi 10.2

      Fisi good idea 45% go to the Greens, 45% to NZF and the old Neoliberals can go over to National or ACT, and some of the maori MP’s can go over to Mana as Hone Harawira at least is genuinely pro Maori ?

    • McFlock 10.3

      Not a cat. Just completely off topic.
      Make your comments relevant or fuck off, fizberto.

    • Keith 10.4

      Heres a certainty, cat or no cat, home ownership should comfortably continue it’s decline into the 50% region or worse under National!

      • McFlock 10.4.1

        again, not a cat, just off topic.

        • Keith 10.4.1.1

          But that is what a dead cat is, an off topic inflammatory comment designed to divert attention away from the actual topic as Fisiani demonstrated. Counter the bullshit with facts and return to the base topic quickly! Or is it better to pretend the headline grabbing bullshit comment never existed?

          • McFlock 10.4.1.1.1

            I suppose the word at issue is “inflammatory”.

            Saying Labour was on the side of murderers and rapists provoked an immediate and visceral response of revulsion, as one would get if someone threw adead cat down onto the kitchen table.

            Percentages and rates don’t really have the same kick, in my opinion. Hence maybe parrot, but not cat. And maybe even relevant to fisi’s approach, so maybe not even sick.

  11. Don't worry. Be happy 11

    Liars need good memories and a coherent narrative. Bullshitters don’t bother with any of that energy sapping effort. John Key is a bullshitter. If bullshitting was an Olympic Sport he would be a Triple Gold Medallist. NZers used to be really good at spotting bullshit….what happened? Too much bullshitting coming from Labour?

  12. Tautuhi 12

    Fisi always try to use red herring for flamebait, best bait for PI’s.

  13. McFlock 13

    OK, just for a couple of people yet to geta handle of these things:

    A “dead cat” is not necessarily irrelevant, it’s outrageous. It’s not coming to a post abour debating tactics and talking about how bad Labour is – that’s just irrelevant. A dead cat is where you don’t like the way the discussion is going, so you say something like “you sucked off a horse“.

    A sick parrot looks like a plausible comment that strikes a blow for the person who presented it, but upon closer inspection and unpacking its relevance is at best tangential and its truth is unimportant. The key is that any refutation or discussion of the parrot necessarily diverts the discussion from the topic at hand. It’s also generally rewalking the same tired ground from previous discussions, and is generally unimaginative or unoriginal – but it requires legwork to disprove and debate.

  14. Incognito 14

    [pun alert] No two dead cats are the same; some have died peacefully, some have been squashed on the road by a rubbish truck, and some have been carefully prepared by a taxidermist. [end of pun alert]

    I refrain from engaging in/on matters of personal opinion and taste and prefer calling out people on matters of fact and logical reasoning & interpretation. In this way, I don’t ‘invest’ personally and avoid getting emotionally attached, which leads to endless ‘suffering’ and not just for me.

    IMO, too many derailments & diversions here on TS and elsewhere are typical of subjective ‘he-says-she-says’ interactions. Don’t get me wrong, it is nice to ‘win’ an argument but there are many other things in life that are a lot more rewarding than scoring a point over another person whom I’ll ever only ‘know’ by his/her nom the plume.

  15. gsays 15

    cheers mcflock, good post.
    after reading it through, i have gone from an ignore the troll position, to engage with them but in a respectful way.
    no name calling, ‘play the ball not the man, and stick to the subject.

    i have seen here that for every comment, there are 10 people reading and not commenting.
    in the past when discussing politics with real people, i have found it easier to engage with them in a constructive way, by repeating or paraphrasing other commenters on ts.

    it seems that the dead cats and ill parrots are another way of reframing a discussion/debate, which is the key to winning a debate.

    i do agree with keith at 8 with the idea of quickly moving on before that polling is done, a possible way to keep them on the back foot.

    • weka 15.1

      I wish there was a way to make the readers more visible. Often times it seems we’re oblivious to the fact that there are whole bunch of other people here who just aren’t saying anything (although we don’t know how many peopel read the comments, that would be interesting to know). I comment as much for the readers as for the commenters and I see the readers as just as important as anything else that happens here.

      • gsays 15.1.1

        rest assured i take a lot from the commenters here, especially yourself.

        unfortunately like a lot of things in life, we dont necessarily see the results of our actions.

        keep up yr good work.

  16. vto 16

    I have an occasional technique for business when someone does or says something outrageous which may be useful under some circumstances – that technique is to up the ante bigtime straight back at them.

    With John Key’s “labour backs rapists” bs I would yell back “Max Key raped his cat yesterday, see it on youtube”. (have something ready on youtube). You must go big.

    The shock works after the initial absolute silence. Bully boys can’t take their own medicine you see. But you need to be confident of your own position and prepared to call bluffs.

    In other words take the dead cat, pull its guts out and wipe it over Key’s face.

    Transferring this to the political arena would be interesting, but it would concentrate the shite big time and isn’t there a saying that there is no such thing as bad publicity? Winston knows about this.

    • Muttonbird 16.1

      Didn’t know Max Key was a cat person.

    • McFlock 16.2

      Temporarily satisfying, but voter turnout goes down to 50%.

      • vto 16.2.1

        Well yes, when this technique is used people certainly get turned off. Temporarily. But the dead cat never appears again. Never. Things then steadily revert to normality.

        It is a very real technique that works.

        Choose a pollie with little to lose to carry it out.

        Use alongside other tools.

        • McFlock 16.2.1.1

          I’m not so sure about “temporarily”.

          The idea that the dead cat will never appear again is predicated on the idea that degrading the discussion isn’t playing directly into the cat-thrower’s hands.

          Yes, there is often a role for a dedicated caucus “attack dog” – mutt to the caucus leader’s jeff. But if jeff has a rabid mutt, then jeff is an irresponsible dog owner responsible for the savage attack.

  17. Thinking Right 17

    So who gets to judge if a comment is a ‘dead cat’ or ‘sick parrot’?

    How do you keep a diversity of opinion if alternative comments are sniffed at as dead cats etc.?

    Does this not create a ‘fabled’ echo chamber?

    In relation to the topic of the post isn’t it really aimed at masochistic right wingers (like myself )who dare to come to The Standard and offer a contrary view point on topics?

    It has been my experience (and the same for most others of the right wing) that most if not all comments coming from a right wing point of view are met with a fair number of regulars (attempting to) who love nothing more than to get stuck into a hapless tory when they come across one.

    I don’t mind this – tis only natural to expect a reaction when you poke a wasp nest, however it would be a shame if all right wing comment was completely banned.

    (Cat bounce comment coming up) If you ban/ignore all opinion coming from a right wing point of view do you not create a closed circle/incestuous pool of like-minded commentators?

    Would not welcoming a number of ‘tory’ comments and then have the satisfaction of ripping them to pieces be better for creating unity amongst the leftist brethren than allowing only the most ‘pure’ to comment and then having arguments about who is the most pure of all?

    And no I don’t get paid for commenting on line sadly – would be a great little earner – maybe I should email John Key…….

    • BlueSky 17.1

      You do need commentators that disagree providing it informs the debate.

      Dead cats should be treated as such. Bury them and ask the deliver of said cat to refrain or be ejected.

      Sick parrots are a little more difficult. There is a little life in the poor beast. It might be possible to save them but identifying the illness takes a bit more time.
      It might well be terminal so treating them with compassion and honesty is probably the best policy until determining if parrot is actually a troll in feathers.

    • McFlock 17.2

      Nothing to do with right-wingers, other than the worst cat-throwers tend to be tories. some non-tories also have one or two topics they tubthump over ad nauseum, bringing them into completely unrelated debates. I told CV to go away upthread for that exact reason.

      There is a balance between cracking down on sick parrots and stifling wide-ranging discussion. I’d be uncomfortable if someone picked up a ban for sick parrots in open mike, for example. But if an author writes a post on Labour’s student loans policy and it immediately goes into a debate about whetheruniversities are run inefficiently, that’s running close to distraction from the topic at hand.

      Also, a sick parrot only counts if it pretends to be relevant to the debate – a clearly flagged tangential observation can be ignored by others because it’s not part of the main discussion.

      In a forum like this, moderators can intervene. But in any forum people can call something for what it is – look at the people who bring up Godwin’s law, for example.

      In the case of calling it a sick cat, then the alleged cat-thrower can clarify the relevance.

  18. JonL 18

    I prefer to just go straight into the personal abuse of the dead cat purveyor…it’s where it ends up so you may as well save the angst of the argument and go straight fir the jugular!

  19. reason 19

    I’ve engaged with tr0lls and their parrot lies for years on the internet and here’s some of my observations and advice …………. I sometimes fail my own advice though 🙂

    Tr0lls are nasty things that do cause damage and shut down discussions ….. For instance NoRightTurn stopped his comment section because Nact trolls were both lowering the tone of his blog and causing him a heap of extra work ……

    So it’s not like they stick to their natural home in the ugly red neck sewers of head Parrots Farrar and Slater…………… They seep out and pollute the internet like fecal matter and nitrates into Canterbury ecan water……….. It’s easy to be disgusted and get angry about such things ………. but trolls unlike faecal bacteria like provoking anger and division…….. so I take enormous pleasure from the fact that right wingers generally seem unhappy with fear and anger driving some kind of bigotry just below their surface ….. I know its mean of me to take enjoyment from their personality defects and bad characters but I suspect they are angry because greed is ugly …. and they know we see them as repulsive…..they know history will too .

    They want respect for their greed ….which more people are recognizing as just planet fucking ugly…………. They could never understand that a man like jose mujica is far richer and has far more wisdom than our pathological greedy low class John Key http://i100.independent.co.uk/article/8-reasons-why-well-miss-jose-mujica-uruguays-maverick-president–e1t_MupEpl

    National would sign trade deals with the type of people who locked up and tortured Jose Mujica ….. the national party and NZ rugby union supporting apartheid South Africa when Mandela was locked up as a “terrorist “ is just one example of them doing this.

    And Just like National putting huge resources into dirty dairy they have done the same with Dirty politics and their tr0ll army ……. leaders like Farrar, Hooten, Slater, tv3, The herald, the prime minister and his office, etc etc etc all play different roles in Nationals attack politics.

    So there is a huge ugly disinformation and smear effort going on …… but more and more people are seeing or experiencing the vast gulf between this governments spin machine and the reality of their merchant banker Serco style way of ruling.

    But back to the purpose of the discussion ……………which is more solution orientated .

    Different types of tr0ll’s although parroting the same bullshit & falsehoods use different methods …………….. the trick is to try and stay on topic and not engage with their diversion………… stick with the subject and use your responses against the troll/parrots posts to expand upon the truth of your own argument for other readers.

    Try not to engage with emotion/anger to their tr0ll bait ………. stick to the topic and use it to educate further on the subject of the thread ………. Speak to the OTHER readers of the thread with your posts. …………. A humorous insult to the tr0ll at the end of your post is the best …………. as other readers may get a laugh and you’ve been expanding your argument and educating them in a reasonable way before the troll dismissal.

    There’s a small number of tr0ll parrots here at the standard which provide good examples of their different methods and personas ……….. and some suggested personal countermeasures.

    First of remember that all of our trolls are malevolent towards The Standard/left and none of them are genuine in what they post* …….. Do not get upset by any of their criticism as they would insult Jesus Christ himself if he was a ‘leftie’……. remember it’s not personal …… they are just tr0lls.

    Fisiani: Fisi used to be a hit and run diversion specialist who would drop some obvious inflammatory bullshit into a thread and then not return … people would spend effort and time insulting him.
    Fisi wants to bring that faecal kiwi blog flavour here so he can sing the ‘angry leftie’ or “just the same as whale oil” tr0ll meme ,,,,anger in the replys to him works in his favor…. One of his famous parrot lines was ” honest john key” which eventually caused some internet research 🙂 ……………recently two herald reader polls involving tens of thousands voters showed only 6% believed Keys statements in one poll regarding the GCSB and Hagars revelations ………..The other seemed to be a general trust one … with less than one quarter of people believing Key .
    Fairfax-Ipsos August 2013 Leader Trust
    Fully believe John Key ? Yes 24%, No 59%
    So when Fisi next spouts this parrot lie I’d recommend posting up the simple short fact that less than one quarter of people believe Key…………… the fisi parrot does not want knowledge of Keys dishonesty rating becoming too common so he will drop that line because his tr0lling would then be hurting Keys image……. So you can modify some parrot lines with a clear simple example of facts….. With luck this makes the troll angry and they display their true nature.

    BM plays a different tr0ll role than fisi and sometimes even seems reasonable ….. but remember he is not genuine and his advice is malevolent. ……. his purpose is to create further divisions, like with his “the greens should go with the nats” garbage …. or his other patently bad advice of which funnily enough always aligns with national party interests……….. I suggest gently ridiculing this arsehole with humor …………. and posting up facts and links showing the true effects of nationals mismanagement ………….. Lynch mob whale oil and kiwi blog types like BM hate being laughed at and they hate the true facts about Nationals mismanagement getting heard and being understood. …………

    Acrophobic is the volume troll and he does take up a lot of other posters time and effort responding to his obsessional amount of dribble…………… Acrophob comes across as positively stalky in his behavior here at the standard and seems to be the only one unaware of what a nutty dick-whacker he’s making himself look like with his screeds of often contradicting bat-shit ……………To be fair he would still look like dick with a fraction of the posts he makes though …….. Despite his bad faith arguing and fanatical post count The Standard lets him continue…….. It’s probably saving a solo mum from being stalked by him in the real world …… I recommend humor to highlight and contrast his horrible national nature….His bad smell sticks to what he is arguing for.

    Puckish rogue:….. from what I can gather he is a little warmonger who likes his booze ……………..I’m really waiting for him to totally blow his own credibility by getting pissed and posting up something like “collateral damage isn’t real children getting killed maimed and burned because they are Muslim future terrorists ” ….With Puck I try and use his obsession with defending Alcohol abuse and his squawking of Alcohol industry parrot lines to put out information that the Alcohol drug industry would rather people are ignorant off. ………tr0lls can be used as tools of education ……….and the tools do not like it.

    But really with tr0lls the first step is realizing they are not genuine so not worth getting angry with…or engaging on a personal level …as simply wasting your time is a success for them…… lowering the tone of a blog with anger and emotional based abuse is a double win for them.

    They are obnoxious people with bad intentions turning up where they are not wanted…..so THERE IS something the matter with them…. take pride in the fact they are an ugly minority and the huge majority of people in New Zealand, or the world for that matter, are not like them.

    They hate humour being used against them….and they fear the real facts explaining what national are really doing gaining traction and becoming clear……

    Try and write for the other reasonable readers is my main advice ………. It works out better for all the normal people.

    After all nobody likes a tr0ll ………………………

    • Doogs 19.1

      This is possibly the most truthful and ‘reason’ed post I have read on this site.

      People really don’t recognise the stirrers, do they. So they waste time returning outrage to the nasty-mongerers. I’ve done it. No more. I really love the advice about confounding them with snippets of truth.

      It’s kind of like ISIS. First there is the ugly, menacing, focused and all-destructive machine, which here is the executive power and their managed bloggers (Farrar, Slater et al). Then there are the rogue adherents like the muslim cleric who shot up the cafe in Sydney last year. They are the ones who sit up in trees and snipe, using vehicles like The Standard to throw their red herrings across the trails of reasoned debate.

      I really like the way you have identified these speed bumps and called them out for what they are.

      This post, which mused delightfully on right wing tactics which confound and derail opposition, was thoughtful and amusing. What happened? The mugwumps dragged their nasty fetid smells across the argument. It’s like (not dead) cats spraying to mark territory. They are the taggers of the internet. All they want to do is wee on the walls of intellect to create outrage and disgust. It’s all diversionary.

      Thank you reason, and also others like Weka who keep the wheels of reasoned debate alive and well.

    • marty mars 19.2

      Thanks reason – some good advice there

      • reason 19.2.1

        Thanks Doogs, marty mars and also McFlock for starting this thread….. it was amazingly timely as the trolls seemed to be annoying me more on here …… and obviously others too.

        I enjoy The Standard for it’s generally very high quality authors posts, the robust but informative debate and the quality of the links from Authors and posters…. I’d been thinking on sanitation methods to disinfect nationals dirty parrots…. and try to help them fly away home

        Some other ideas, concepts and practices I left out which people could try in their own ways and styles …………… and I fully respect other peoples approaches to tr0lls with my only golden rule being not to post in anger to tr0ll bait ….. controlled aggression is better with combined with short easy to understand biting facts.

        When on the net I now keep a couple of word documents open,….. if I read something well written or containing information on things that interest me I copy and paste it with the url……..this is basically a readily available time saving tool for me……

        A simple question to the tr0ll that they will never answer because it takes the topic to a National failing can be a good ending to a post …..Don’t even talk to them up to that point ….. inform and educate the reasonable readers with the first part of your post.

        It should be easy to keep it relevant to the thread as there are so many failings from the nats ….. The questions can be serious, ironic, humorous, rhetorical or what-ever you feel like ………. From climate change to education rankings there are hundreds examples of National taking us backwards and lowering our standards ……. they have to lie and divert …. So frame it back to the reality they don’t want talk about.

        Short and sweet unless you have a talent for writing is often best …… I may be breaking that advice right now……… but it’s the best way with tr0lls as they want to waste your time…………. A Fisi quick question could be along the lines ” Do you think that less than a quarter of voters now believing John Key is honest had anything to do with his total lack of impact in Northland and the brutal hiding Winston gave him up there?” ( note my hyperbole, tr0lls use it a lot but sometimes get enraged when it’s turned back on them ). This could make him debate the lack of honesty ratings that Key has earned himself ………… A definite ‘dont talk the fuck about that in public’ topic for Keys image makers and PR army.

        If a tr0ll like acrophob is getting owned and made a fool of in a climate thread or some other I keep out of it because I couldn’t add anything ………. I suppose I could run a sweep stake on how many posts Acro will make in a new global warming thread for humor and entertainment purposes …… but he would cheat to win it.

        Otherwise just keep up the exchange of good information and robust opinion on this site, it’s a large diverse group that has the usual personality clashes and flare ups that happens with humans …… But its moderated very well with good clear explanations of offenses ….. I should also thank Lyn who has never banned me.

        He gave me a stern warning recently which caused me to re-read the sites policy rules ……….. If he checks my logs and claims it was my first visit to that page ………. I’ll simply claim Keyzheimers and say I have no recollection of not being there before. 🙂

  20. shorts 20

    I assume the navy trains their personal as to the best defence against being broadsided

    the opposition needs to do this too – or more like do it more effectively, they know a barrage of dead cats, parrots and every other animal will be thrown at them, best have a defence prepared and use it immediately rather than play catch up when the entire country bar a few highly engaged political watchers have moved on

    To beat the national clobbering machine you’ve got to better it

    • One Anonymous Bloke 20.1

      Inventing lies takes a lot less time than rebutting them, because you can’t know what they’ll be in advance.

      • shorts 20.1.1

        this is of course true – but moaning about the fact that lies, lies and more damn lies will be thrown at you and the media will happily reinforce the national parties lines hasn’t done much to help the opposition to date, so best to find a better strategy

        we know national will say what ever pops into keys head – so little and co need prepared attack lines to counter to shift the dialog to favourable territory

        its not like there isn’t so many thing to take the govt to task on… you just have to do it right (e.g. don’t use race as an attack card in the auckland housing crisis)

        • One Anonymous Bloke 20.1.1.1

          “Moaning”.

          There’s a big difference between “moaning” and pointing out that there’s an established pattern. The fact of the Prime Minister’s relentless mendacity need not be off-limits for comment. It has to be done well, it mustn’t dominate the response, and there’s still a place for it.

          • shorts 20.1.1.1.1

            you are of course right – now for Labour to do as you suggest, because all too often they are in the eyes of the public simply moaning

            And in my eyes it happens a little too often – sometimes their response is justified and understandable but it always costs them, never national even if (as is often the case) they win the actual argument, they still lose

        • McFlock 20.1.1.2

          Shift the dialogue from where?

          National will say whatever pops into key’s head.
          What pops into Key’s head is whatever seems useful in the moment.
          Whatever is useful in the moment varies according to which questions journalists ask and what events happen in the country.

          Preparing contingency response lines for everything that national might say in any given moment therefore quickly becomes an intractable problem.

          What’s needed is a tactically-relevant response, not a situationally-specific response. Labour have tried being outraged, ignoring, explaining, but none of that seems to work. And the corrupt speaker wouldn’t allow out bullshitting pm to be called a bullshitter in the House, is my suspicion.

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    Check. Check. One, two, three, four. Is this thing ON? Hello readers, I logged in last night (yeah, it’s been a while) to mark THE END of the landmark legal case, Jordan Williams v Colin Craig, which (gulp) reached The Supreme Court, in which New Zealand’s most-defamed man was suing the politician he ...
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  • The Birth Of Israel: Wrong At The Right Time.
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    1 week ago
  • Hard News: Public Address Word of the Year 2019: Korero phase
    In an unreliable, strange and confusing world, Public Address is proud to present a measure of comfort and stability by annually asking everyone what words or phrases sum up the year that's been – and then giving some of them consumer goods as prizes for being clever or simply lucky.Well, ...
    1 week ago
  • Generalist to specialist
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    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    1 week ago
  • A “coincidence”
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    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Member’s Day
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    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Worse than I thought
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    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • The cannabis bill and the referendum
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    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Hard News: The Cannabis Legalisation and Control Bill: pretty good so far
    As you're probably aware, the draft bill outlining the proposed legal cannabis regime to be put to a referendum late next year was published yesterday, and has already attracted a flurry of comment. It's notable that a good deal of the comment is about proposals that aren't actually new.A minimum ...
    1 week ago
  • Climate Change: Alignment
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    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • How climate change will affect food production and security
    Climate Explained is a collaboration between The Conversation, Stuff and the New Zealand Science Media Centre to answer your questions about climate change. If you have a question you’d like an expert to answer, please send it to climate.change@stuff.co.nz According to the United Nations, food shortages are a threat ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    1 week ago
  • More bad faith
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    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Banning foreign money from our elections
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    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Reforming the Education Acts
    The government introduced the Education and Training Bill to Parliament yesterday. Its a massive bill, which replaces both existing Education Acts, as well as various other bits of legislation (including some which are still proceeding through the House). I'll leave the serious analysis to teachers and people who actually know ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Bite-sized learning
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    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    2 weeks ago
  • “Not The Labour Party We Once Knew.”
    All Smiles Now: Claire Szabo is taking up her presidential role after serving as the CEO of Habitat For Humanity. Which is absolutely perfect! After KiwiBuild was so comprehensively mismanaged by Phil Twyford, the party has not only elected a new president from a thoroughly respectable not-for-profit, but one who ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Marxist versus liberal methodology on transgender ideology/identity politics
    While much of the NZ left has transitioned to postmodern and identity politics in relation to transgender ideology, there are some very good articles about that deploy Marxist methodology in relation to this subject.  The one below is from the British marxist group Counterfire and appeared on their site here ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Book review: The Farm by Joanne Ramos
    by Daphna Whitmore At Golden Oaks, a luxurious country retreat in the Hudson Valley, pregnant women have the best care money can buy. From the organic food, personalised exercise programmes, private yoga instruction and daily massages Golden Oaks looks like a country lodge for the upper class. Set some time ...
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    2 weeks ago
  • Loosening the purse strings
    When Labour was running for election in 2017, it felt it needed to demonstrate "fiscal responsibility" and signed itself up to masochistic "budget responsibility rules". It was a fool's errand: the sorts of voters who demand fiscal responsibility are also the sorts of voters who believe that labour can never ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Climate Change: How to get there
    Writing in Stuff, Joel MacManus looks at what we need to do to meet the Zero Carbon Act's targets. The core of it:1. Convert 85 per cent of vehicles on the road to electric. 2. Eliminate fossil fuels from all industrial heating up to 300 degrees Celsius. 3. Double our ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • anti-vaxxers in a measles epidemic: so many ways to be untruthful
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    SciBlogsBy Alison Campbell
    2 weeks ago
  • Is Youth Vaping a Problem in New Zealand?
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    2 weeks ago
  • In pursuit of “Freedom and Democracy”: Forever Wars in “America’s backyard”.
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    exhALANtBy exhalantblog
    2 weeks ago
  • November ’19 – NZ blogs sitemeter ranking
    Image credit: The beginner’s guide to blogging I notice a few regulars no longer allow public access to the site counters. This may happen accidentally when the blog format is altered. If your blog is ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Whodunnit? Finding the mystery 1080 testing lab
    1080 is used to control pests in NZ. Its use is contested by a noisy few. A new report claims high levels of 1080 in rats washed up on a beach. Flora and Fauna of Aotearoa (F&F) won’t name the laboratory that did their testing. It has sparked a hunt ...
    SciBlogsBy Grant Jacobs
    2 weeks ago

  • New partnership to boost screen sector job opportunities
    Auckland’s growing screen sector is the catalyst for a new partnership between the Ministry of Social Development and Auckland’s economic development agency Auckland Tourism, Events and Economic Development (ATEED). The launch today at FilmFX in Henderson, is to celebrate the partnership which looks to capitalise on the social and economic development opportunities ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 hours ago
  • A minute’s silence for Whakaari White Island victims
    A minute’s silence will be observed at 2.11pm on Monday 16 December in honour of the victims of the Whakaari White Island eruption, Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has confirmed. “Wherever you are in New Zealand, or around the world, this is a moment we can stand alongside those who have ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 hours ago
  • NZ to help fund fight against measles in the Pacific region
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters has announced New Zealand will contribute NZ$1 million of funding towards the joint United Nations Fund for Children (UNICEF) and World Health Organisation (WHO) Pacific Regional Action Plan for Measles.   “Prevention through vaccination is the most effective way of avoiding illness and a costly health emergency. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 hours ago
  • New Zealand remembers Sir Peter Snell
    New Zealand is today remembering one of our true sporting heroes, triple Olympic gold medal winner Sir Peter Snell. “He was a legend, here and around the world,” Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern said. “Our thoughts are with Sir Peter’s wife Miki and their family.” “Sir Peter is recognised as New ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 hours ago
  • PM congratulates Boris Johnson on election victory
    Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has congratulated United Kingdom Prime Minister Boris Johnson on his election victory.  “New Zealand and the United Kingdom are close friends and despite our distance we are strongly connected by our history and people,” Jacinda Ardern said.  “I look forward to continuing to work with Prime ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    22 hours ago
  • Building a platform for the future of rail
    The Government has released its long term vision for a sustainable 21st Century rail network that gets our cities moving, connects our regions and gets more freight off the roads.   Deputy Prime Minister and State Owned Enterprises Minister Winston Peters said the Government is committed to rebuilding New Zealand’s ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    22 hours ago
  • Prime Minister statement Whakaari White Island recovery operation
    I want to start by acknowledging the families who have experienced such grief and such loss since the extraordinary tragedy on Monday. Today was all about reuniting them with their loved ones. We've just come from the airport where many of them were gathered and in amongst what you can ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    23 hours ago
  • New Zealand medical specialists to provide further support to Samoa
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters today announced further support for Samoa’s longer term needs as it continues to respond to a devastating measles epidemic. “Samoa’s health system has experienced massive strain in the wake of the measles epidemic. The volume of patients needing care during this outbreak, and the number of ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Discounted electric-bikes offered to public sector workers
    Discounted electric bikes will be offered up to public sector staff across the country as part of the Government’s work to reduce transport emissions and support healthier transport options.  Associate Minister of Transport Julie Anne Genter officially launched the new initiative at Wellington Hospital today.  “The Government has negotiated bulk-purchase ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Australia and New Zealand confirm joint bid for FIFA Women’s World Cup
    The Australian and New Zealand Governments today launch an historic joint bid to bring the FIFA Women’s World Cup to the Southern Hemisphere for the first time. Australian Minister for Youth and Sport, Richard Colbeck and New Zealand Minister for Sport and Recreation Grant Robertson will announce the bold campaign, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Blackwater gold mine gets PGF boost
    The Provincial Growth Fund (PGF) has approved a $15 million loan to help re-establish a gold mining operation at Blackwater Gold Mine, near Reefton, Rural Communities Minister and local MP Damien O’Connor announced at an event on the West Coast today. “This is great news for the Coast that could ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Papakāinga model inspires whānau well-being
    Papakāinga model inspires whānau well-being A housing project by Kohupātiki whānau in Hastings is an outstanding example of a Māori-led housing initiative that can reduce financial pressure and reconnect whānau to their whakapapa says the Minister for Māori Development Hon Nanaia Mahuta.  Minister Mahuta officially opened the Aroha Te Rangi ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Government provides more funding for major community wetland restoration project
    Restoration efforts for a significant wetland in the Hawke’s Bay are getting more support announced Associate Minister for the Environment Eugenie Sage. “Wetlands are vital to healthy landscapes and ecosystems. They function as nature’s ‘kidneys’, filtering and protecting water quality, acting as nature’s sponges after rain and are home to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Housing First to help Nelson Tasman homeless
    Nelson has today seen the launch of Housing First Nelson Tasman. Today’s launch marks the expansion of the Government’s homelessness programme, Housing First, to the top of the South Island. “Housing First is a proven programme that puts people who are experiencing homelessness and multiple, high and complex needs into ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • New funding to support Environment Centres working for sustainable local solutions
    New Government funding announced today will help communities make a difference in tackling environmental issues Associate Minister for the Environment Eugenie Sage announced in Hawkes Bay today. The Ministry for the Environment’s Community Environment Fund is dedicating $243,101 to growing the capacity and capability of the Environment Hubs Aotearoa’s (EHA) ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Government takes bite out of loan sharks
    The days of vulnerable consumers falling victim to loan sharks, truck shops and other predatory lenders are numbered, following the Credit Contracts Legislation Amendment Bill passing its third reading tonight. “Too many Kiwis are being given loans that are unaffordable and unsuitable, trapping them in debt and leaving their families ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • New Zealand safer as Terrorism Suppression (Control Orders Bill) becomes law
    A Bill that prevents terrorism and supports the de-radicalisation of New Zealanders returning from overseas has passed its third reading, Justice Minister Andrew Little says. The Terrorism Suppression (Control Orders) Bill is a carefully targeted response to manage the risk posed by a small number of New Zealanders who have ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Foreign Minister and Pacific Peoples Minister to visit Samoa
    Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters and Minister for Pacific Peoples Aupito William Sio will travel to Samoa on Friday, where New Zealand medical teams are helping Samoa respond to an outbreak of measles. “New Zealand has been working closely with the Government of Samoa and offering our assistance from the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • New Pastoral Care Code will support tertiary students in 2020
    The Government has changed the law to improve student safety and welfare in university halls of residence and other student accommodation. The Education (Pastoral Care) Amendment Bill passed its third reading this afternoon and details of an interim Code of Practice setting out the Government’s expectations of tertiary providers have also been released. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • New infrastructure funding tool to build housing developments faster
    A new tool to help councils fund and finance infrastructure could mean some housing developments happen a decade earlier than currently planned, Urban Development Minister Phil Twyford said today. “This new tool, developed by the Government in partnership with industry and high-growth councils, will allow councils to access private debt ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Vision to unite the primary sector launched today
    Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor has welcomed the release of a bold new vision for the country’s vital food and fibre sector. “I’m delighted that New Zealand’s major farmer and grower organisations are today supporting the Primary Sector Council’s vision – Fit for a Better World,” he said. “The international consumers ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • NZ congratulates PNG and Autonomous Bougainville Government on referendum
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters has congratulated the Government of Papua New Guinea and the Autonomous Bougainville Government for completing a well-conducted referendum on the future political status of Bougainville. “New Zealand supported the referendum process by providing technical advice through the New Zealand Electoral Commission and leading a Regional Police ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Next steps for Upper North Island logistics
    In light of Cabinet’s position that freight operations on prime land in downtown Auckland are no longer viable, the Government will now embark on a short work programme to enable decision-making in the first half of next year, Associate Transport Minister Shane Jones says. Minister Jones is today releasing the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Surgical mesh restorative justice report received
    Associate Health Minister Julie Anne Genter has received the report back from a surgical mesh restorative justice process undertaken by Victoria University. The process heard stories, either in person or online submission, from more than 600 people affected by surgical mesh. “The report made for heart-breaking and confronting reading,” says ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • The Water Services Regulator Bill – Taumata Arowai a milestone for drinking water safety
    The Water Services Regulator Bill – Taumata Arowai , introduced to Parliament today, is a milestone for drinking water safety in New Zealand and will help improve environmental outcomes for urban waterways, rivers and lakes.  “This is a breakthrough for New Zealanders in terms of providing safe drinking water throughout ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Speech to new direction for criminal justice reform announcement
    Kia ora koutouE ngā mana, e ngā reo, e ngā matā wakaTēnā koutou katoaHaere ngā, moe maiKoutou ma ngā Rangatira Ko Anaru ahauKo au te Minita mo ngā TureHe Honore tino nui kei roto I ahau No reira tena koutou katoa Today, we are releasing two reports that are the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • New direction for criminal justice reform
    The Government is looking to turn around the long-term challenges of criminal justice by taking a new approach to break the cycle of offending to ensure there are fewer victims of crime. Justice Minister Andrew Little released two reports today, Turuki! Turuki! from Te Uepū Hāpai I te Ora, and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • New law sets up $300m Venture Capital Fund
    New Zealand firms expanding beyond the start-up phase are set for more support after today’s passage of the Venture Capital Fund Bill, Associate Finance Minister David Parker said. The Bill, which establishes a $300 million Venture Capital Fund, puts in place a key initiative of the Wellbeing Budget’s economic package. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • New Zealand’s National Statement to COP25
    E ngā mana, e ngā reo, e ngā iwi, e ngā rau rangatira mā. Tēnā koutou, tēnā koutou, tēnā koutou katoa. Señora Presidenta, Excellencies, Delegates. International action A common thread that runs through the Paris Agreement is the commitment we have made to each other to do what we can to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • $12 billion in extra infrastructure investment
    The Government is lifting capital investment to the highest level in more than 20 years as it takes the next step to future-proof New Zealand. Finance Minister Grant Robertson has announced $12 billion of new investment, with $8 billion for specific capital projects and $4 billion to be added to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Strong economy, careful spending gives $12bn of surpluses
    The Government is forecast to run $12 billion worth of surpluses across the four years to 2023/24 as the economy continues to grow. The surpluses will help fund day-to-day capital requirements each year. These include fixing leaky hospitals, building new classrooms to cover population growth and take pressure off class ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Priorities for 2020 Wellbeing Budget outlined
    Budget 2020 will continue the Coalition Government’s focus on tackling the long-term challenges facing New Zealand while also investing to future-proof the economy. When the Government took office in 2017 it was left with crumbling infrastructure, severe underinvestment in public services, degraded rivers and lakes, a housing crisis and rising ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Minister welcomes data-rich coastline mapping tool
    The Minister responsible for the Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Act 2011 (te Takutai Moana Act 2011), Andrew Little has welcomed the launch of an online geospatial tool that provides data-rich, dynamic coastline maps that will significantly boost research and evidence-gathering under the Act. Te Kete Kōrero a Te ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Chief Victims Advisor reappointed for a further two years
    The Chief Victims Advisor to Government Dr Kim McGregor, QSO, has been reappointed in her role for a further two years. Dr McGregor has held the role since it was established in November 2015. She provides independent advice to government on how to improve the criminal justice system for victims. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • New Zealand tsunami monitoring and detection system to be established
    Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters and Civil Defence Minister Peeni Henare have today announced the deployment of a network of DART (Deep-ocean Assessment and Reporting of Tsunami) buoys. “New Zealand and the Pacific region are particularly vulnerable to natural disasters. It is vital we have adequate warning systems in place,” ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • DART Buoys Announcement
    DART Buoys Announcement Aotea Wharf, 9.30am 11 December 2019   Acknowledgements Acknowledgements to Minister for Civil Defence Hon Peeni Henare also here today. White Island It is with regret that this event shadows the tragic natural disaster two days ago. The volcanic eruptions on White Island have claimed 5 lives, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Final steps for racing industry reform
    Racing Minister Winston Peters has welcomed the first reading of the Racing Industry Bill in parliament today. This is the second of two Bills that have been introduced this year to revitalise New Zealand’s racing industry. “Our domestic racing industry has been in serious decline.  The Government is committed to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Funding to promote New Zealand Sign Language initiatives
    Minister for Disability Issues, Carmel Sepuloni, is pleased to announce that $291,321 is to be awarded to national and local community initiatives to maintain and promote the use of New Zealand Sign Language (NZSL). “New Zealand is one of the few countries  in the world where Sign Language is an ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • How New Zealand defines and recognises veterans
    Minister for Veterans Ron Mark has announced today the Coalition Government’s initial response to work completed by the independent statutory body, the Veterans’ Advisory Board. “When Professor Ron Paterson completed his review of the Veterans’ Support Act in 2018, he made a number of recommendations, including one which I referred ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Government to fund lion’s share of Ohakea water scheme
    The Government will fund the bulk of the cost of a rural water supply for the Ohakea community affected by PFAS contamination, Environment Minister David Parker announced today at a meeting of local residents. This new water scheme will provide a reliable and clean source of drinking water to the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago