Nanny state National wants to ban cell phones at schools

Written By: - Date published: 8:35 am, August 10th, 2023 - 62 comments
Categories: Christopher Luxon, education, making shit up, national, same old national, the praiseworthy and the pitiful, you couldn't make this shit up - Tags:

luxon sheep

National has this propensity of announcing policies that scratch conservative itches, cost nothing and hog media attention.

Yesterday we had a classic example of this as they announced that cell phones would be banned at schools.

From Adam Pearse at the Herald:

The National Party has vowed to ban students from using their phones at school if elected, but it will ultimately be up to schools themselves as to how such a policy is enforced.

It would bring New Zealand in line with Australian states which enforce such rules.

Luxon today announced National wanted to “turn around falling achievement” by eliminating “unnecessary disturbances and distractions”.

He would do so by banning the use of phones at schools for the entire day, including breaks between classes, with the expectation they would be “off and away all day”. It would apply to primary, intermediate and secondary schools.

“Schools will be able to decide exactly how they enforce it, but it could mean requiring students to hand in their phones before school, or leave them in their lockers or bags,” he said.

“Parents can contact students via the school office, and exceptions for students with health conditions or special circumstances will be permitted.”

Those special circumstances included students whose phones aided learning challenges and those who needed their phones for health purposes.

The party could be accused of plagiarism, because a very similar policy was recently implemented by the Labor Minns Government in New South Wales.

And you have to wonder about the utility of the policy given that schools already have the power to ban phones.  As noted by Papatoetoe High School Principal Vaughan in this Newshub article:

Papatoetoe High School principal Vaughan Couillault told AM on Wednesday cellphones are needed in some subjects for students to do work.

He told AM co-host Ryan Bridge centralised control from Government has proven not to work over recent years.

“On the surface of it, it sounds like a way to address an issue the world is facing in terms of screen time and distraction but when you dig down into the stuff at the bottom of the announcement, you see it’s no different to what’s actually already happening in schools and classrooms anyway,” he said.

“We don’t necessarily need centralised control and governance over this because schools are already enacting their own policies and putting their own systems and procedures in place to do pretty much exactly what’s already on the bottom of that page.”

As highlighted in this Education Gazette article schools adopt different approaches to the issue.  Some schools such as Glendowie went cellphone free in 2020 during the school day.

Albany Senior School prefers to let its pupils self manage:

Albany Senior High School has chosen a different approach, preferring to encourage sensible use by students rather than banning devices.

“Basically, I believe we are supporting young adults to self-manage, so they should have their phones but also learn how to ensure they don’t become distractions,” says principal Claire Amos.

She clarifies that teachers always have the right to ask students to put them away or look after the phone for them if they can’t self-manage.

“Students have a lifetime of device ownership ahead. I think we need to be realistic that they can be learning tools and that young people can learn to manage them,” she says.

Rangitoto College let students contribute to the formation of the policy.

Rangitoto College took the views of its students into account when forming its policies around students’ cellphone use. The Auckland school used focus groups of students from Year 9 to 13 as part of its review process, as well as looking at effective school practices from both New Zealand and overseas.

“We wanted a policy that was flexible enough to allow students to have phones at school, but robust enough to minimise classroom distraction,” says Associate Principal Tony Giles. “We also engaged with current research which suggests that the mere presence of phones reduces cognitive capacity – even in bags or pockets, the proximity of the device has a negative impact, especially if it’s receiving notifications or alerts.”

The school’s resulting policy is designed to ensure that the learning of all students is maximised, while minimising any potential for distraction. If students choose to bring a cellphone, it must be switched to ‘silent’ and deposited in the ‘cellphone box’ at the start of each and every class. At the discretion of the teacher, students may be allowed to access their phones for learning-related activities, such as using the camera, stopwatch or calculator.

Tony says students, particularly juniors, adapted very quickly to the new routine of handing in their phone each lesson.

“Seniors took a little longer to adapt, but it’s now fully embedded across the school, to the extent it’s just another automatic routine for students. Teachers still however regularly remind students of the ‘why’, actively teaching students the benefits of self-regulation, although students understand all too well the addictive and manipulative nature of social media apps.”

You could be forgiven to wonder if Luxon himself should go cellphone free.  After all in recent days he has had difficulties spelling “cat”.

And his comprehension is suspect.  He has an inability to understand issues relating to development of the school curriculum even though it was recently explained to him.

From Emma Hatton at Newsroom:

… the meeting was close to wrapping up when a woman at the back of the room, concerned about her children, wanted to know why biology was being taken out of the school curriculum.

“I thought that was crazy eh?” Luxon interjected.

“Just for everyone in the room the new science curriculum doesn’t mention biology, physics or chemistry.”

“Oh so you’ve just confirmed it for me then,” the woman answered.

“Yea, the universities have to start teaching science from scratch from year one because it’s going to be useless,” Luxon answered.

Biology is not being removed for the New Zealand curriculum. Biology, chemistry, physics and earth science will all be included.

“This year we began developing a first draft of the refreshed science learning area. An early draft was shared for feedback. Concerns were raised and these concerns are being acted on for the next draft of the science learning area,” Ministry of Education curriculum centre leader Ellen MacGregor-Reid confirmed.

And Luxon knows this – last week in Selwyn he said the draft school science curriculum was not ready to go and that National had agreed to pause its development, if elected.

To top things off he also appears to have numeracy issues with his claim that New Zealand had dropped outside of the top ten in writing attracting this comment from Rugbyintel:

Treatment of this issue says a lot about National.  Make a big song and dance about a policy that was plagiarized overseas. Misrepresent the current situation and use dodgy statistics.  And instead of working with schools to deal with a matter that can be an issue propose one size fits all response which may work fine in wealthy areas but not so much in poorer areas.

And it has no comprehension how hypocritical its attacks on “nanny state” actions by the Government are.  This is “nanny state” on steroids.

After all espousing good policy is not the goal.  Scratching talkback radio itches for political gain is.

62 comments on “Nanny state National wants to ban cell phones at schools ”

  1. Blazer 1

    Just caught a headline this morning.

    Mike Hosking.. 'a move in the right.. direction!' laugh

    • lprent 1.1

      Well if Hosking thinks it a good idea, then you know that it is wrong. He is an idiot who likes simple bullshit that won't work.

      I can see why you fit into his target audience.

      • roy cartland 1.1.1

        Can't disagree here – as the well-known saying goes, to see if a policy sucks, just look at the utter fuckwit promoting it (or something).

  2. PsyclingLeft.Always 2

    You could be forgiven to wonder if Luxon himself should go cellphone free. After all in recent days he has had difficulties spelling “cat”.

    Indeed. The Nat leader phony is also a phonetic(k) .

    He led the Kids interaction with… The Nu ABC….(or ABK : )

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/08/election-2023-christopher-luxon-stumbles-on-spelling-doesn-t-rule-out-banning-mobile-phones-in-schools.html

    What…a tool.

  3. Ad 3

    Tactically National is making populist moves: crime, education, and then health will be next. Labour are making deals which are more narrowly focused.

    I want Labour to make campaign moves that gain popular discussion.

  4. Ngungukai 4

    Winston First is starting to look credible compared to these other fellas ?

  5. Ffloyd 5

    Someone should ask Kristopher Luxon. how to spell the plural of sheep.He seems to be a bit dim. Using quite a bit of Keys utterings. Shtable and shtrong comes to mind. Has anyone noticed that he doesn’t seem to have OffenDull standing silently to attention at his shoulder anymore.

  6. Molly 6

    Labor policy proposal in Australia:

    https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/parenting/school-life/nsw-labor-leader-chris-minns-hints-at-2023-mobile-phone-ban-in-high-school-if-elected/news-story/e58881e2ec5f0a4ab5d701f7472df55f

    "Mobile phones could be banned across all public high schools across NSW by the end of the 2023 school year, in an election promise made by NSW Labor.

    Opposition Leader Chris Minns said he anticipated the rule to be “up and running in the year 2023,” while also committing $2.5 million in research into the impact of screen-addiction in young people.

    “(Putting) a ban in place should be quite straightforward, because it actually enables teachers to make a distinction and say: ‘You’re not allowed to have your mobile phone,’” he said.

    “They don’t have to decipher whether that phone is being used to research an algebra problem or to send a text message to a friend.”

    • Muttonbird 6.1

      Interesting it only applies to public high schools. As if to say phones are fine in private or high income, high achieving schools but not in low income, low achieving schools. Phones are either detrimental, or they are not, regardless of the ability of the student or the income of their family.

      I suspect if anyone bothered to ask Luxon, the same rule would apply here. Only bottom feeding schools would have to enforce the policy and private schools would be exempt.

      Remember, private schools do get government funding, about 20% that of state and state integrated schools.

      • Molly 6.1.1

        I don't know what the reach of government is on private school policy, and whether that has been considered.

        What may be of interest is that the policy will be rolled out in Term 4 in NSW, and perhaps there will be data coming from that policy that is worth looking at:

        https://www.nsw.gov.au/media-releases/nsw-government-begins-mobile-phone-ban-public-high-schools

        "NSW public secondary school students will be banned from using mobile phones at school from Term 4 2023, as the Minns Government delivers on an election commitment to improve students’ learning and social development.

        The Government will start consultation from today with schools on options they can use to implement the ban.

        Mobile phones are already banned in primary schools, and we are bringing our high schools in line with schools in South Australia, the Northern Territory, Victoria and Western Australia.

        The ban on mobile phones will apply during class, recess and lunch times, as is the case in NSW public primary schools. Students will be allowed to carry their phones while travelling to and from school.

        A number of high schools have already banned the use of mobile phones at school – requiring phones to be put in lockable pouches, lockers, bags or simply making students hand in their phones at the beginning of the school day.

        The Premier and Deputy Premier today met with students, teachers and education leaders at Condell Park High School where a mobile phone ban has been in place for 16 years."

        Apparently, while there is disagreement between experts, many parents are supportive of such a policy while their children are at school:

        https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/apr/04/parents-show-support-for-mobile-phone-ban-in-nsw-schools-but-experts-not-sold-on-benefits

        "Dany Elachi, a Sydney parent who founded the Heads Up Alliance during the pandemic to call for children’s exposure to smartphones and social media to be reduced, said parents are navigating “uncharted waters” in the digital age.

        “There’s a whole raft of concerns parents are dealing with for the first time in history,” he said. “The idea kids might have a break from all this for six measly hours in a 24-hour day so they can learn with less distraction and build face-to-face relationships is such a no-brainer.”

        It's interesting to see that people are not able to outline any realistic harms coming from such policy, and take the position that it is a fundmental right to have mobile phone access at all times.

        • Muttonbird 6.1.1.1

          Compliance reduces teaching time. Increased authoritarianism over kids. Poorer communication with kids in a world increasingly dependent on communication. Stifles creativity. That's just off the top of my head.

          Any why would it not be a fundamental right to possess ones own personal property?

          • Molly 6.1.1.1.1

            "Compliance reduces teaching time. "

            How did you make that determination?

            "Increased authoritarianism over kids. "

            How do you reach this conclusion. Many environments created for specific purposes have guidelines or policies associated with that use. eg. Swimming pools often do not allow non-swimwear in the pool. Is that an authoritarian stance, or a practical one?

            "Poorer communication with kids in a world increasingly dependent on communication."

            I can't even take this seriously. You have provided no evidence or reasoning behind this conclusion.

            "Stifles creativity. "

            Again. Not supported by any evidence or reasoning.

            "Any why would it not be a fundamental right to possess ones own personal property?"

            Trail bikes, dinghies, stereo systems, beds, horses… ownership is not a salient reason for access in all environments, particularly one that has a specific purpose not related to mobile phone ownership.

            Thanks for the reply, though, Muttonbird. It's an interesting take on a policy that is being discussed quite dismissively on here, without any attempt at consideration of benefits.

            • Muttonbird 6.1.1.1.1.1

              Guess I'll have to spell it out.

              1. How does the cellphone ban work in practice? It's either keep it in your bag all day or get detention. Probably a lot more detention because there is now another crime. Or, hand 1500 phones into reception each morning and retrieve each afternoon. Sounds like a lot of work with an increased risk of loss or damage. Or, and in and retrieve in each classroom. Same issues as above and does address the idea 'kids need 6 hours of purity away from their phones each day'.
              2. Of course swimwear only is required to not damage the pool infrastructure. Hasn't been proven phone damage anything as far as I know.
              3. Simply, parents cannot quickly communicate with kids about changes of plans, pick-ups, sports logistics. Most sports teams and extra curricular groups use phone based apps to communicate. You can turn back the clock to the good old days if you wish.
              4. Phones are used creatively all the time by the younger generation. A ban during school hours suppresses all sorts of expression and curiosity, and would create resentment of authority instead of partnership with it.
              5. Trail bikes? Seems a massive stretch to try construct these analogies.

              As to the benefits, schools have the ability to work with students to create good learning environments, What are the benefits of the government standing over principals, teachers, and students, and what are the penalties for non compliance?

              • Molly

                I guess your curiosity to find out from those schools, countries, jurisdictions that already have this policy in place will not be sated by me doing that investigation for you.

                "Phone damage' is an interesting view, given what we know of the harms of social media on youngsters health and wellbeing. I guess you have some good data on how students mobile phone use is divided in terms of social media etc.

                I posted the UNESCO link below. I understand there was acknowledgement in the report of companies with vested interests providing "research" on benefits.

                I also had a conversation about ten years ag on this topic with high school teachers who had the same questions as you. It looks like there are now examples of how this can be managed.

                They'd have to be looked to see how successful they are in implementation and whether outcomes have been measured and/or are beneficial.

              • In Vino

                "Bottom-feeding schools."

                I love that term, Muttonbird. So much better than "Lower Decile," a term which needs replacing anyway..

  7. Sanctuary 7

    I am a complete dinosaur on this sort of thing. Ban phones. Just do it. Over-zealous parents anxiously micro-managing their fragile little darlings after school movements or dietary requirements via mobile phone is wrecking kids today. Let kids have the right to roam like the wild animals they are, and let them swap their pinenuts and raisin mix for some marshmellows from their rough mate when no one is around.

    And while we are at it, lets throw out the Chromebooks and computers and electronic uploads of assignments and make the little sh*ts read books and write their essays (using a fountain pen like civilised people do, dammit!) and research them from – *gasp* – the Library. And they can hand them in to the teacher in class.

    Down with technology cosseting our kids.

    • Descendant Of Smith 7.1

      The perfect example of why people who don't use something should be kept well away from making policy for people who do.

      Do you really think re less capable of embracing and working with this technology than developing countries? We in fact could do so much more. Where are our language translating apps in New Zealand for instance? Simple things like taking photos of notes or of insects and plants in field trips then using those in projects.

      Education in developing countries transformed with mobile phone apps

      • Mobile phone apps can revolutionise school learning in developing countries, where access to educational resources are less accessible – according to research by the University of Warwick
      • Researcher designed app to be used by science and maths pupils in South African schools – they found it much easier to interact with teaching and to study at home
      • Pupils’ native language often different to language used in classrooms – learning apps allow them to switch between languages, making learning easier and more fluid
      • Mobile phone coverage is extensive, even in developing countries – can make up for shortages of educational resources and technology

      https://warwick.ac.uk/newsandevents/pressreleases/education_in_developing/

    • AB 7.2

      Fountain pens for writing absolutely! And only in Latin too.

      • Obtrectator 7.2.1

        Nah. Bring back inkwells, I say. Really keeps your mind on the job, having to dip into those every few seconds.

        • Sanctuary 7.2.1.1

          People totally under rate fountain pens. For a start, they are great replacement for the 1.5 million ball point pens we use every year in NZ that end up in the rubbish. A fountain pen can last a lifetime, and it just uses ink and is completely sustainable.

          It also transforms writing into an aesthetic pleasure, I find the flow of the ink onto paper wonderful. Sometimes in meetings I take copious notes just for the pleasure of writing in ink.

          And it improves your handwriting big time.

          And last, but by no means least, pen ink is a wicked weapon when deployed creatively in the school environment.

          • Descendant Of Smith 7.2.1.1.1

            You're clearly not left handed but I guess being smashed over the knuckles with Cuisenaire rod holders fits into the category of back to basics and has the added value of changing your skin colour all at the same time.

          • ianmac 7.2.1.1.2

            I found 2 fountain pens last Christmas in a 2nd hand shop and gave one each to my two sons. They were intrigued but I don't think they use them every day.

      • Descendant Of Smith 7.2.2

        Organised toilet breaks. After all……

        cacatio matutina est tamquam medicina

    • bwaghorn 7.3

      My slightly dreamy very shy year nine got on the wrong bus the other day, the usual driver was driving a different route for some reason, ended up in a town 10 kms from home , I'm a busy solo paramt who wouldn't have known for an hour or 2 without the ph, . They have there uses, !!

      I prefer teaching self regulation as I.dont want to be an authoritarian parent

    • The_M_Bird 7.4

      Yeah, a complete dinosaur with a complete disregards that for some people the electronic devices are a life support for learning. My dyslexic one would not have reached year 12 if it wasn't for the Chromebook that allowed him to do the work required. He wouldn't take a pen and write, and if he did (like one fresh off the press teacher was trying to do) it will be unreadable let alone very thin in quality as his brain works very differently and way faster than his pen writing could keep up.

      So he learns a lot from the history channel and from *gasp* YouTube as he will not use the library no matter how hard you try and convince him that struggling with a sentence for 15 minutes trying to read it is better than watching a video.

      Thank god we have at least some teachers who understand we are not in the stone age anymore.

  8. Visubversa 8

    Don't you mean "Granddaddy State"? Or "Crusty Old Uncle State"?

    • Descendant Of Smith 8.1

      Yeah was going to say daddy state as well – patriarchal – that's why they can never be accused of nanny statism. The whole notion of nanny is just yet another put down of women and that men know best.

      Sounds much like the panic over calculators when I was at school. Yay to my slide rule which I still have.

      Good schools will also work out the benefits while managing the concerns.

      The results show that 43 per cent of students attending the school where devices are banned are still using them to help with learning despite the ban. Meanwhile, 74 per cent of students at the school which allow them, use the devices to aid learning.

      Across the 628 students surveyed, worries range from general distraction (for example, phones ringing during class) to fears about other students using smartphones to cheat, sext and cyberbully.

      Despite this, the study also found that 90.7 per cent of the students surveyed were using their mobile phones for school-related work.

      Although participants in this study say using a mobile device in the classroom involved the need for exploration and a lot of personal research, the authors suggest that with the growing trend of BYOD, schools should consider integrating mobile devices into lesson plans.

      https://www.teachermagazine.com/sea_en/articles/mobile-phones-in-the-classroom-what-does-the-research-say

  9. Mike the Lefty 9

    I seem to remember that at school we weren't allowed to have handheld calculators at class because they were a distraction, you could play space invaders on them! smiley

  10. Corey 10

    Teachers already do take your phone off you if you use it in class.

    They are dangerous and distractions though let's be real, smart phones and social media make adults extremely unproductive, they promote cliquey and hive mind group think mentalities, extremely antisocial behaviour, cyber bullying, extreme shyness and paranoia and disinformation.

    That's with adults, I actually worry deeply about the next generation because they have had phones and tablets in their hands since they were 2 and have all these behaviours ingrained in them and they know nothing else.

    With smart phones, bullying doesn't end at school at either and social media promotes everyone to pile and engage in bullying behaviour.

    Just wait til the kids start using ai to bully other kids, they'll generate video and audio of their victims saying and doing things. Off

    And on top of that there's the predators, kids today have no social skills because they don't play with the neighbourhood kids because all their parents think they'll be kidnapped outside their house so all the kids today sit inside on screens talking to god knows who on the internet.

    I don't think there should be a law against phones but let's not pretend phones aren't distractions and that they don't cause antisocial behaviour, bullying, anxiety, social phobia, group think, pile ons and expose people to predators.

    Teaching kids healthy behaviours with social media and cell phones and how to turn them off might be a good idea

    • Descendant Of Smith 10.1

      Moral panic idiots are the perfect example of what you describe – cliquey, hive mind group think.

      Tell me one person who is pretending (saying) there are not negative aspects to be managed as well. The students aren't, the teachers aren't, …….

      And you are still more likely to be abused by a friend, or family member or neighbour than someone you met on-line. The paranoid ones really are those who see predators on every corner.

      The parallels between these two episodes suggest that they both constitute a form of “moral panic”, a term popularized by sociologist Stanley Cohen in his seminal study of mods and rockers. (Cohen, 1980), Moral panics follow a characteristic sequence: (1) the emergence of a “problem”, frequently associated with negative influences on the young; (2) community concern, amplified – and, to a degree, orchestrated – by the media, and arguably out of all proportion to the actual scale of the problem; followed by (3) a political reaction, usually involving hasty legislation aimed at providing stricter controls.

      chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://pesaagora.com/access-archive-files/ACCESSAV05N2_047.pdf

  11. MickeyBoyle 11

    I know many on the left are faux outraged about this, but I like the policy.

    Yes, it can already happen, but in many classrooms it isn't.

    If this policy means only 100 kids per year see the benefit from this move, it would've been well worth it.

    I also like Nationals plan to increase the eligibility age for free mammography screening. We don't always have to be so partisan when policies come out that anyone with a functioning brain can see will deliver positive outcomes.

    Less tribalism, more common sense.

    • Descendant Of Smith 11.1

      I'm sure you can squeeze more insults in that comment than you did while trying to pretend you are the voice of reason.

    • observer 11.2

      After many years of Helen Clark and Jacinda Ardern being constantly denigrated with the brainless term "nanny state", a little outrage is surely justified.

      There are literally hundreds of examples of National chucking that accusation at Labour, and if they now regret it, they only need to say so. (Obviously they won't).

      https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA0810/S00187/showers-latest-target-of-labours-nanny-state.htm

      Government telling schools what they should ban? Outrageous …

      "Labour’s nanny state is out of control. They tell us how to live our lives by doing things like dictating what can and can’t be sold in school tuckshop …"

      etc, etc, etc

  12. Peter 12

    The only real matter is whether education professionals are going to be allowed to make professional decisions about their institutions and pupils. Or is that to be handed over to outsiders roused by ferals for political purposes?

    We want our best and brightest to be teachers? So the Mike Hoskings can tell them what to do?

  13. Mike the Lefty 13

    Perhaps this is a bit of forewarning for teachers about what National has in store for them, if they think they have been hard done by Labour.

  14. Molly 14

    This recent Guardian article reports that UNESCO has proposed similar mobile restrictions in schools, after reviewing evidence:

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jul/26/put-learners-first-unesco-calls-for-global-ban-on-smartphones-in-schools

    "Smartphones should be banned from schools to tackle classroom disruption, improve learning and help protect children from cyberbullying, a UN report has recommended.

    Unesco, the UN’s education, science and culture agency, said there was evidence that excessive mobile phone use was linked to reduced educational performance and that high levels of screen time had a negative effect on children’s emotional stability.

    It said its call for a smartphone ban sent a clear message that digital technology as a whole, including artificial intelligence, should always be subservient to a “human-centred vision” of education, and never supplant face-to-face interaction with teachers."

    Article from UNESCO can be found here:

    https://www.unesco.org/en/articles/smartphones-school-only-when-they-clearly-support-learning

    Full report ( I believe this is it) is here:

    https://unesdoc.unesco.org/ark:/48223/pf0000385723/PDF/385723eng.pdf.multi

    • Descendant Of Smith 14.1

      We'll just ignore this part in the report which a ban will not help facilitate.

      Students need to learn the risks and opportunities that come with technology and not be shielded from them entirely. But countries need to give better guidance on what technology is allowed in school and what is not, and on their responsible use. Only technology that has a clear role in supporting learning should be allowed in school.

      Or this in my earlier link.

      The results show that 43 per cent of students attending the school where devices are banned are still using them to help with learning despite the ban. Meanwhile, 74 per cent of students at the school which allow them, use the devices to aid learning.

      Are we really only capable of thinking banning all is a solution.

      Share these rules for digital etiquette with your students to help ensure cell phones are a beneficial tool, not one that distracts from learning.

      1. Put your phone down when someone is talking to you and make eye contact with the speaker.
      2. Don’t text while you are walking.
      3. Be aware of your surroundings and don’t get distracted from someone or something important.
      4. Silence your phone when you are in class.
      5. Remove your headphones if someone is trying to talk to you.
      6. Don’t post on social media during the school day.
      7. Be a good digital citizen and avoid getting into any digital drama.
      8. Know the cell phone policy for each of your teachers, and respect it when in their classroom.
      9. Don’t make your teacher, classmates, friends, or family secondary to your phone.

      https://scienceandliteracy.org/why-should-students-be-allowed-to-use-cell-phones-in-class/

      • Molly 14.1.1

        Both links show alternate perspectives.

        An interesting book on technology and education I read years ago was The Child and the Machine.

        https://www.amazon.com/Child-Machine-Computers-Childrens-Education/dp/1589040058

        It challenges the assumption that all learning is enhanced by technology, especially when you don't use appropriately or quality check the delivery.

        It's an old publication, so probably dated now but the issue of quality remains the same. There are a lot of online providers that are subpar, and software programs that are low quality.

        Human interaction affects not just individual responses, but improves outcomes by aiding retention.

        I don't think your guidelines are poor, just unnecessary if mobile use is prohibited at school.

        • Descendant Of Smith 14.1.1.1

          Really you don't think teaching those things apply equally outside of school as well. I really dislike cell-phones and the way many adults and wanky employers especially use them.

          I don't support banning them. It is a tool and we are better off teaching people how to utilise the technology responsibly for the best gain.

          Heard the same bullshit about comics and then punk and then spacies parlours and then computers – it never ends this moral youth panic. Even in the 80's I encouraged my sons to learn to type not write. The writing was clearly on the wall for writing. I haven't written anything by hand other than notes to my wife and someone's phone number or email address for 25 years now.

          Let the kids and the teachers work it out and have faith that they will.

          • Molly 14.1.1.1.1

            Calling it a "moral panic", is an emotive term, that dismisses any benefits from the practice.

            "Banning" is also misdirection. From other sources where this has been implemented, students retain possession of their phones but cannot use them throughout the school day. So they are still available for use on the way to and from school.

            Your supposition that students need to have phone etiquette lessons (continuously?) is not evidenced. Requiring them to not use during school hours is the only mobile phone directive that really applies for schools.

            • Descendant Of Smith 14.1.1.1.1.1

              You obviously didn't read the meta analysis about phone addiction. It isn't a supposition. Next you'll be saying it is up to the parents.

              • Molly

                No. On the phone, so reading links of reports at the time is near impossible – also, I didn't mention phone addiction as a consideration. (Though it is a valid one to assess.)

                But I'm also not here to convince you DoS.

                Just thought it's worthwhile to provide an alternate perspective – one shared by others, including the Australian Labour Party and UNESCO – to avoid the familiar lockstep of opinions that appears to be more and more present on TS.

                • Descendant Of Smith

                  Hence a problem. The links I posted generally give a benefit versus harm assessment (not just a one sided point of view).

                  We are supposed to provide links to support our case and to also not paste large chunks. If we follow these rules and then people do not read the links it sort of defeats the purpose of trying to provide some reason behind the argument.

                  I made the effort to read and understand your links before posting further.

                  Ultimately I'm supporting the status quo where schools can decide for themselves based on the expertise of the teachers, the proclivity of the students. There is just no need to exercise and increase the authority of the state in this matter. It is just a populist fascist authoritarian response.

                  The increase in the power of the state under John Key was bad enough without increasing it further.

                  I'll never forget Key using the infamous "nothing to fear nothing to hide" with a smirk on his face knowing exactly the historical use of that phrase.

                  Overall it is a solution looking for a problem.

  15. Thinker 15

    I think this is such an important issue that special legislation does need to be passedcheeky.

    In the same legislation, it can be a statutory requirement that shoes must remain laced, with a regulation bow knot, socks pulled up and skirts kept at a regulation half-inch below the knee.

    School days would begin with Appell.

    Pupils caught with shoes not laced will be brought before the courts and, if found guilty, sent to a NACT Boot Camp (no pun intended)…

    If this legislation leads to improvements in schools, it could be extended to the workplace where offenders would be adult criminals and there would be a special wing at Paremoremo for those who bring a cellphone to the workplace.

    • bwaghorn 15.1

      Worked with a grotty little chap used to watch porn at lunchtime with the sound on, thank fuck he only lasted a month, maybe the nats should extend it to the workplace and see how that goes down!!!

    • PsyclingLeft.Always 15.2

      Pupils caught with shoes not laced will be brought before the courts and, if found guilty, sent to a NACT Boot Camp (no pun intended)…

      Nice : ). And those army boots take a bit of getting Right. That'll learn them….

  16. bwaghorn 16

    Odd!! On mobile mucky boils comment at 11 is all that appears under luxoffs photo?

    Bloody auto correct changed its name ,think I’ll leave it this time 😄

    • Descendant Of Smith 17.1

      This analysis deals with addiction which includes use out of school hours not just within . The salient point though of the meta-analysis is that it does not recommend a ban and nor should it.

      Based on the findings of this meta-analysis, we recommend that educators consider adopting a policy that will help reduce students' use of smartphones in school settings. The present meta-analysis offers some practical suggestions for students, instructors, or educators. Instructors can include the smartphone rules in their syllabi and inform their students of the adverse effect of smartphone addiction on learning by drawing on this study's findings and extant literature. By so doing, students become aware of the potential negative consequences of their actions.

      In addition, educators can provide good strategies by which people can learn through the use of smartphones. Healthy use of smartphones should be encouraged in all educational settings, including minimizing smartphone use because healthy use of smartphones adds to life while smartphone addictions take away from life

  17. Mike the Lefty 18

    I think most of us on this blog would agree that the use of cellphones in schools should be RESTRICTED , but talking about BANNING is a far different matter. But once again it should be individual schools and learning centres deciding their own policies, not being subject to clumsy central government meddling.

  18. Graeme 19

    Spud could also look at funding schools specifically to help support students with adhd, no diagnosis needed, observation and recommendations from teachers will suffice. While he is being a big shot, ASD is another that every school could be funded specifically to support.

    but, that will require work so it’s not happening.

  19. Mac1 20

    Very clever satire from Andrew Gunn in The Press 12/8/2023 page B4. "Today's visitor is Mr Luxon from the National Party."

    "Kid: Mr Luxon, when you were at school did you have cellphones?

    Mr Luxon: No. Not ever. We sat up straight and paid attention in class, and at lunchtime we made our own fun. The boys played bullrush and the girls did macrame.

    Kid: Mr Luxon, when you were at school did you have sex education?

    Mr Luxon: We certainly didn't. Sex eduction is something that should only be between children and their parents. Or, failing that, between the bikesheds."

    And so on to pillory Luxon on issues such as boot camps, bottom feeders, roads, being rich, agricultural emissions, the Kiwi dream, supermarket shopping, 20th century solutions….

    • Molly 20.1

      Creative writing: 7/10

      Considered political analysis: Resubmit.

      • Mac1 20.1.1

        "Considered political analysis: Resubmit."

        I am assuming that marker's note refers to Mr Luxon's pronouncements?

        • Molly 20.1.1.1

          No…wink

          • Mac1 20.1.1.1.1

            Definitio of satire. The use of humour, irony, exaggeration, or ridicule to expose and criticize people's stupidity or vices, particularly in the context of contemporary politics…. I don't think it is meant to be a considered political analysis from a column labelled Satire.

            But I would expect some considered political analysis from an aspirant PM on topics such as how we treat school students and young offenders, how and what we teach students, refer to the poor, address climate change and emissions, without depending on 20th century solutions based on banning, blaming, borstals and boosting the rich.

  20. Peter 21

    Are sugary drinks and foods harmful to kids’ performance in school? Is the National government going to ban them? That is, have schools ensure children don’t have access to them on campus?

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