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National goes dirty

Written By: - Date published: 10:37 pm, September 24th, 2013 - 131 comments
Categories: brand key, dpf, same old national - Tags:

It’s not been surprising to see National’s dirty tricks machine groan back to life over the last week – in the last week of the leadership campaign a good source close to the Nat’s research unit told me that they’d picked David Cunliffe as the likely winner and they were already digging through his past. At the time they were trying to find “rightwing” comments he’d made that they could use to wedge his left support base from him.

Similarly it’s no surprise they waited until John Key was out of the country before sending Mathew Hooton on a kamikaze attack on Cunliffe on Nine to Noon – after all it’s important they keep Key’s brand well away from that kind of muck. It’s all they’ve got left.

What has been surprising is how hamfistedly it’s been done. Hooton sounded like he was hysterical when he started shouting his smear on the wireless, on the same day Vance managed to get very specific comment from an anonymous “industry player” on the story a little too quickly, and David Farrar has been unusually unsubtle about trying to build it up. I mean check this out:

Some people have suggested that the scrutiny is unfair and part of an attempt to knock Cunliffe down. I think they forget that John Key went through exactly the same thing in 2008.

The NZ Herald had reporters spend months investigating John Key’s background. They talked to former colleagues and acquaintances of Key’s from around the world. They eventually published their findings in a multi-page feature.

It’s like a begging letter to the MSM. Unsurprisingly there’s been little pick up.

What all this tells me is the dirty tricks machine that National once (quietly) prided itself on has got very rusty. Well, that and they’ve not realised that running this kind of campaign when you’re in government and you’ve clearly got no popular policy just looks dirty and desperate (*cough* H-fee *cough*).

I understand we’ll see more of this over the next week or so. The nats are looking to damage Cunliffe’s reputation before he establishes himself fully in the public’s mind (at which point it will be a much harder task for them). They know they can’t go head to head on policy – because nobody actually likes their policies – so they’re going personal.

The problem they’ve got is they’re not doing a very good job of it. Add to that the fact they’re increasingly looking like they’ve got no vision of their own and I think they’re putting themselves in line for significant blow-back. It’ll be interesting to see what their next move is.

131 comments on “National goes dirty”

  1. geoff 1

    Is it possible that Key has lost control of the party? That the rustiness is partly due to an internal breakdown, ie the Collins division not playing ball?

    • Tracey 1.1

      geoff, read Hollow Men, Key is no innocent bystander.

      • geoff 1.1.1

        Tracey, I’m not implying that Key is innocent, I’m suggesting that maybe the dirty tricks that he’s attempting are not working as well as they used to because of factional divisions in the party who no longer jump as high for him as they used to.
        Also, I have read the hollow men.

  2. mickysavage 2

    Cunliffe is the perfect anti Key. Another rags to riches story with a wealthy intelligent wife at the cutting edge of environmental law and a house in Herne Bay. But he is sticking to his beliefs and not moving.

    He is brighter than Key. He may not be as good at the funny stuff but let him dissect Key’s utterances and show where he is wrong and Key may have met his match.

    The attacks are puerile and so predictable. This Government really is behaving like a third term government in its second term.

  3. McFlock 3

    I suspect that an effective slagging campaign is a perishable skill.
    They’ve spent five years simply saying “labour left us with it”, “labour did it too”, or just outright lying and saying “it’s going great”. Now it’s dawning on them that 2014 will be a hard slog, and they’re panicking.

    I suspect their strategy is to try and keep the labour vote as low as possible for the start of the campaign, but the problem is that by the time they get good at slight-of-slag, it will be an old trick and they’ll need something new.

    And their current desperation suggests that they haven’t found a king-hit skeleton anywhere yet – if you have an ace up your sleeve, you don’t needlessly sacrifice your bishops or rooks because they don’t exactly grow on trees… 🙂

  4. Colonial Viper 4

    This is just National’s opening salvo. Their artillery is going to keep opening up, and they have their spotters (internal pollsters) zeroing in on the most effective targets as we speak.

    Having said that Cunliffe can use a very simple strategy for counter-attack. Keep smashing the Government where it hurts – their lack of vision for the nation and the many credibility strains showing in their management of the economy for the top 5% wealthy.

    • mickysavage 4.1

      Yep keep reminding people about crony capitalism and never ever get diverted …

      • Peter 4.1.1

        Yes, produce the numbers to back up the statements – eg how many millions have gone to the middlemen (compared to the cost of a referendum) as a result of assets sales, how little actual NZ mum and dads invested ( and lost so far), how much of asset ownership has headed overseas, how much revenue the Government has given up, how the budget is being balanced by selling revenue generating assets to pay for non-revenue generating assets.

        Simple and truthful numbers that explain how we are being fleeced will bring in the votes required.

        • AmaKiwi 4.1.1.1

          +1

          I can tolerate a lot but when you steal from me, you’re finished.

          My formula for victory would be to demonstrate that the Nats have STOLEN hundreds of million money from all of us and given it to their rich cronies.

          • marty mars 4.1.1.1.1

            + 1 Yes and the only thing I’d add is that Key stole it – that lying fake.

            I think you are all right from cv down. The fight will get dirty because they have to keep the left (all parts including the part Labour plays) out so they can continue to exploit our land for their overseas mates. It doesn’t get lower than that and when you think like that your morality imo is barely low enough to count so you’ll do anything and everything to further selfish self interest. Hootens, aptly named kamikaze, attack was a probe using an expendable minion – I don’t think they’ll be happy with this fizzer, more desperate plans will be afoot.

        • Mary 4.1.1.2

          Yes, with a dash of how the abandonment of democratic principles paves the way for the agenda, adhered to so strictly, but with a strategy based on change by stealth so as not to scare the horses. Selfish, uncaring, greedy men.

    • Red Rosa 4.2

      National’s slickest trick is to keep referring to their government as ‘centre-right’.

      In fact it is Extreme Right. Latest of course ACT’s charter schools, from the creationist Banks. The ultimate Parata folly, and an insult to NZ education.

      Dredging up policy from the depths of UK Tories and the US Repubs, then foisting it on NZ, has been the hallmark of this government.

      But it looks like Spying and Lying will be Key’s nemesis, with the final DotCom showdown still some months away. Meantime twisting slowly, slowly in the wind….

      • AmaKiwi 4.2.1

        To quote mickysavage: “Kim Dotcom, the gift that keeps on giving.”

      • Populuxe1 4.2.2

        Don’t be ridiculous – if you think Key is Far Right, you are woefully ignorant of history. He’s scum to be sure, but he ain’t no Hitler, Pinochet, Peron, Franco etc. He’s not even a Thatcher.

        • Chris 4.2.2.1

          “but he ain’t no Hitler, Pinochet, Peron, Franco etc. He’s not even a Thatcher”

          Yet…

        • peterlepaysan 4.2.2.2

          He and Thatcher are cloned from the same gene pool.

          Fairness, equality, ethics are irrelevant. Only money,power and winning matters, whatever the cost.

          Very Americas Cup really.

        • karol 4.2.2.3

          Depends on the definition of “far right” of which there is not total agreement.

          Basically, it is not necessary synonymous with fash1sm or naz1-ism

          Some see extreme “neoliberalism” as far right.

          There’s this definition as well.

          According to Elizabeth Carter, the two defining features of a right-wing extremist party are: a rejection of fundamental human equality, which she asserts is what makes the party right-wing,[20] and a rejection of the fundamental democratic values of the state, which makes it extremist.

          I do think Key’s government is more radical than they try to pretend.

          A plutocracy in “centre right” clothing.

      • Wayne 4.2.3

        Its 5 schools, hardly the end of public education as we know it.

  5. Murray Olsen 5

    I think (and hope) that at least part of their problem is that their attack dogs, like WhaleSpew, Penguin, and Horton have become too obvious as biased and untrustworthy typists for hire. Or, in WhaleSpew’s case, cutter and paster for hire. While died in the wool Tories won’t care that it’s bullshit, anyone who actually thinks about whom to vote for is growing tired of the same old garbage all the time. The NActs and their copywriters are becoming less popular by the day.

    • Tracey 5.1

      average punter doesnt know who farrar and hooten are though, do they? Which is why Labour labelling them by their previous national connections may be important to neutralise them f the media will pick up their comments/.

      • felix 5.1.1

        Yep. And even further than that, I’d label them as what they really are: right-wing extremists.

        It’s getting boring hearing the media refer to “political blogger David Farrar” and in the next breath “LEFT WING BLOG The Standard” as if David is some sort of neutral bystander.

        • Tracey 5.1.1.1

          exactly. by all means use these guys as sources and guests but everytime reveal their connections and therefore jaundiced views.

        • Murray Olsen 5.1.1.2

          Yeah, it’s not right that they can be passed off as neutral commentators when they push far right drivel. Then they call this a Labour Blog, which I find a little disturbing. Perhaps they should have to wear their sponsors’ clothing, like the yachting guys.

  6. miravox 6

    And this is why the NActs are worried:

    Labour’s support has jumped under new leader David Cunliffe to the extent that he could form a coalition government and become Prime Minister, if today’s Herald-DigiPoll survey figures were translated to an election result…

    …Mr Key’s support as preferred Prime Minister has fallen 9.4 points to 55.8 per cent. Since becoming Prime Minister he has been in the 60s and sometimes 70s. He has never been down to the 50s. Mr Cunliffe scored a respectable 16.8 per cent in his first appearance as Opposition leader in the preferred Prime Minister stakes.

    A lot of people were tired of Key a long time ago, they just had nowhere for their vote to go. Now they have. If the NActs can’t nip Cunliffe’s credibility right now they won’t be looking forward to the next few polls.

    Tight control and a message for people to believe in, Labour, and the next election is yours to lose. Be brave.

  7. North 7

    Did Shouty Hooton have forewarning of this poll result ?

    One might think he did, he (according to himself ) being so impeccably connected, authoritative, omnipresent and all that.

    That would explain Monday’s calculated yet risibly thin “liar liar” rave on Nine to Noon. It would also explain the extraordinary meltdown offered up when no one clapped.

    In the grips of panic. Hilarious.

    • Tracey 7.1

      Shooten Up said HE helped in the formation of Fonterra. Did he mean by selling the idea of it, which is not actually helping its formation at all. If he has kids I hope he has brought them up to do as he says not as he does.

  8. Jenny Kirk 8

    ” What all this tells me is the dirty tricks machine that National once (quietly) prided itself on has got very rusty.”

    Don’t kid yourself, Irish Bill. That Hooten stuff was just a pinprick, and probably a test to see if using him was/is feasible.

    The NActs will come up with some very very nasty tricks. They’ve got John Adshead and Crosby-Textor onside and they’ll come up with the goods for them. Remember Dancing Cossacks and Iwi/Kiwi.

    Labour is in for a very tough and nasty fight from here on in.

    • IrishBill 8.1

      I don’t doubt it’s going to be nasty, and I expect the Nats will adapt, but they’ve got off to a bad start. Also, I don’t rate C/T that highly – a lot of their success has been off the back of weak opponents. Cunliffe and his team are not weak opponents.

    • risildowgtn 8.2

      That is why we must fight back
      Start calling these media whores out on their lies….

      Twitter is great for springing them as a bunch of liars…… coz once ya do ,the truth is OUT there…….

      I might even join the LP if they keep this up…….

      • David H 8.2.1

        That, and formal complaints to Radio NZ, don’t hurt either. I must admit tho Gower never did reply on twitter, when I called him out for making shit up.

  9. chrissy 9

    Labour rises in the polls. Key faints.

    • Sanctuary 9.1

      The first line in the Herald is pure unintentional comedy gold:

      “…Prime Minister John Key has taken ill soon after arriving in New York, having to rest in a nearby pub…”

      Ah yes, THAT kind of ill…

  10. chris73 10

    Yes because Labour never tried to find dirt on Key or do we not remember Mike Williams little trip to Australia

    Here let me remind you all:

    “Labour is trying to avoid the fallout from the so-called “H-bomb” it has dropped on John Key as it emerges taxpayer funds have been used in the attempt to find dirt on the National Party leader.”

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/696924/Labour-tries-to-dodge-bomb-fallout

    • IrishBill 10.1

      I mention the H-fee in the post, you moron.

    • Tracey 10.2

      yes but Chris I thought all Key’s supporters thought it was dirty, beneath contempt and not something they would do? You are rolling out the “but Labour did it defence”. Is that what you wanted from your government, to be like Labour?

    • One Anonymous Knucklehead 10.3

      What a piss poor pathetic display of hypocrisy.

      Did that excuse work for you in the army, Chris? “But but but LLLLLaaaaaabbbbbboooooouuuuurrrrrr”.

      Plus what Irishbill said, moran.

      • Rogue Trooper 10.3.1

        not confusing chris73 with any Dylan I hope. “But..but…but, the officers are allowed in there…”

      • Greywarbler 10.3.2

        OAK
        Was that Dylan Moran – Irish comedian (who can make anything funny)?

        • One Anonymous Knucklehead 10.3.2.1

          Ah. The definition of “moran” in this case is provided by the urban dictionary: “the way a moron spells moron”, as immortalised in the phrase “Get a brain morans! Go USA!”. It is commonly used ironically.

  11. North 11

    It’s their reaction to the questioning of their ludicrous sense of superiority and entitlement will do them in. Shouty Hooton on Monday is the latest delicious example.

    The semi-precious brooch of ShonKey Python’s one time 62% as preferred PM is falling off the cold bosom. Wonder what silver bullet the likes of Chris73 will bring to the discussion now ?

    Wait for more in the vein of child-like rage and resulting gaffes.

    As says the old fulla on Dad’s Army………”They do not like it up ’em !”

    Meanwhile Judge Judy is sitting knitting.

    • North 11.1

      Old hat stuff Chris73 @ 10 above. Dead and gone long ago. As irresonant and irrelevant as the 3.5% Helen Clark is currently pulling in the preferred PM stakes which have ShonKey Python down 8%.

      You’re not gonna tell me that’s your silver bullet are you ? How artless can you be ? October 2008 ? My God !

  12. David H 12

    Well here’s my little gift to Shouty Shooten A formal complaint to Radio NZ.

    You have a so called professional political commentator screaming over everyone, Calling the newly elected Labour Leader a Liar. All in all not a very good look for any radio station, especially one that is thought of as the one last bastion of free speech, and truthful reporting.

    And not repeating the mental writhings of someone who sounds definitely unwell.

    • karol 12.1

      Well done, DH. I did email them my complaint on the day, but unlike TRP I haven’t had a reply,. is it because I used this pseudonym and its email & not my birth name?

    • Wayne 12.2

      David,

      I guess you missed the irony in your post, “bastion of free speech”. Hooten is a commentator for the Right (sometimes overly strident), he is not a neutral analyst. And it is live radio – people say what they say, the audience judges it.

      • peterlepaysan 12.2.1

        Its 5 schools taking money away from schools that need the money to do something meaningful that is accountable.

        5 schools promoting John Banks perverted and corrupt view of society is hardly a legacy the Nats would be proud to own.

      • peterlepaysan 12.2.2

        So the audience judged that Bradbury was banned for life?

        So the audience judged that Hooton is allowed to stay?

        I do not think so.

      • karol 12.2.3

        How can Hooton be a “commentator” and a “Lobbyist”/PR person?

        Plus, the slot is meant to have a commentator from the right and one from the left giving alternative views. The Hooton shouted over Ryan and Williams, preventing any other view than his liar, liar outburst.

        He should be banned for that violation of the debating process.

      • gobsmacked 12.2.4

        Wayne

        You are a smart guy so I can only guess that you have not actually heard the relevant rant. I recommend that you do. Shouting “liar” constantly is not “commentary”, and not worth defending.

        Of course he is legally – and rightly – free to do this, but no radio station is legally obliged to give him a platform to do it. I can shout “John Key is a liar!” on the street, or on a blog, but I cannot insist that Radio New Zealand employs me to do so every week – and why should they have to?

  13. karol 13

    It may not just be that the NAct smear machine is rusty, but the blogosphere has changed since they began their Commn1st Lesbian D1ktator smears of Clark.

    Then smear stories were seeded through KB, WO and talk-back, and ultimately picked up by the MSM.

    Today, while not treated as de fact journos like Farrar & WO, TS does get read by journos, and The Daily Blog also has become a major force for the voice of the left. Good to have more than one platform to strongly articulate the strength of the collective left.

    Hooton’s rant was based on superficial research. It may have worked in the past. But if you look back at Open Mike to the day of the rant, you will see at least 3 of us dug up evidence that Hooton was wrong, in a pretty short time.

    The collective base is the strength of the left, and the best way to combat the NAct top-down, plausible deniability, smear machine.

    Note: I’m logged into the main page of TS, but it says I’m not logged in on this thread.

  14. Sable 14

    Oftentimes it not the quality of the message but how frequently its repeated that changes peoples minds for better or for worse. Think about WMD’s, war on terror, utter codswallop but the public of the US swallowed it. Why? Because it was said, again and again and again by dodgy right wing politicians and their stooges in the mainstream media.

    The opposing coalition need to fight fire with fire it they want to win here. Simply writing this off as nonsense from National and ignoring it is a HUGE mistake. They need to keep reminding people of Keys and co’s human rights violations, fiscal mismanagement, general lack of transparency and more if they want to win.

  15. amirite 15

    This morning Radiolive falsely reported that Cunliffe’s bio about the Harvard qualification on the Labour website has been edited. Cunliffe then had a swipe at Hooton for calling him a liar several times, said he”ll prove him wrong and added that the Nats are panicking after the new poll results.
    So it has started, the dirty war on Labour.
    If that’s all the media and the Nats can come up with, we’re sweet.

    • Sable 15.1

      How do people learn, by repetition. The quality of the message is secondary, keep that in mind. Labour need to deal with these detractors harshly and without mercy and do so repeatedly.

    • Tracey 15.2

      you cant be right because national doesnt believe in dirty shots or personality politics, just politics.

      I keep waiting for that Tui sign, but they dont DO anti right wing tui signs.

  16. Jax Taylor 16

    Thank-you. Not a Labour member here, but saw this coming a London mile off..
    As Lianne Dalziel intimated in that wonderful speech, even Duncan Garner praised..Politics not for the * faint of heart* , nor for the really black hearts either though, when the winds starts blow-back the other way!
    The prevailing ones I am picking up on, really want change everywhere. Here, London, N.Y even Iran. Not more of the same. Some in the NZ mainstream are getting as nasty and toey as one or two of those bloggers and their shills everywhere… Attack can actually be the poorest form of defence when it all goes horribly wrong.. Lessons taken from: Thatcher Days 101.
    .
    Just seen the ‘rocket’ in those polls too.. Enough to make someone faint?
    Memo to self.. Put on ak-ak flak bodice before venturing out in mini..
    😀

  17. karol 17

    Andrea Vance is leading the smears re-Cunliffe’s CV, and she sms to have a direct line to Hooton.

    Doesn’t do much good to Vance’s image.

    Andrea Vance, News of the World, corporate shill, throws up yet another Hooton branded smear re-Cunliffe’s CV.

    Aren’t there more pressing political issues for you to focus on Andrea?

    • Sosoo 17.1

      It’s getting even more pathetic.

      Mind you, that article basically thumps Hooton’s original claim.

      • gobsmacked 17.1.1

        that article basically thumps Hooton’s original claim.

        Yes, Hooton caves.

        But this perfectly illustrates how this tactic works. Hooton’s climb-down gets less publicity than the original claim. So, no loss for the Right, Key is clean, some mud may stick to Cunliffe.

        For the Hooton/Slaters, truth is irrelevant. It’s up to Radio NZ and other media to call them out, Sadly, they probably won’t.

    • Tracey 17.2

      it wont help cunliffe either, only the beltway know who shooten up is.

      btw, to the silent t brigade… there is life in cunliffe.

    • David H 17.3

      Yeah but vance’s latest clam to fame is one of what ? Swapping pics of body parts, with a has been politician.

  18. amirite 18

    From Twitter:

    Steve Braunias ‏@SteveBraunias 1m
    Startling new baseless accusation has it that David Cunliffe is a militant Islamic freedom fighter, a woman, and died four years ago

    🙂

    • karol 18.1

      Ah, yes, some twitter fun is being had at Hooton’s expense:

      The egonomist:

      Wow ok this has gone too far RT: “@MatthewHootonNZ WHERE IS THE BIRTH CERTIFICATE CUNLIFFE?!”

      • Tracey 18.1.1

        does this mean that the Nats know that the direction cunliffe is suggesting he will take the LP is where their polling suggests kiwis want NZ to go?

        Key is putting the rise down to media coverage.He also says the election is a year away… I think he is right and the question now is, will the media swing back behind Key or will they keep the debate even?

    • ghostrider888 18.2

      died from asphyxiation sex; see her hanging around the Gallows from time-to-time.

    • Tracey 18.3

      LOLOLOL

      I hope Braunias has done a diary for Key’s visit to the Queen.

  19. karol 19

    And Blinglish gets in an attempted slur, referencing Cunlife’s CV, in replying to Cunliffe in question time – thereby showing that National is part of the shoddy, ill-judged smear campaign against Cunliffe.

    • Tracey 19.1

      English’s idea of a housing policy is getting subsidised to have his family live in luxury in Wellington.

  20. Tracey 20

    What is to be gained by being on the security council? Money apparently

    “Ten of the fifteen seats on the U.N. Security Council are held by rotating members
    serving two-year terms. We find that a count ry’s U.S. aid increases
    by 59 percent and its U.N. aid by 8 percent when it rotates onto the council.”

    Click to access 06-029.pdf

  21. Puckish Rogue 21

    I’d suggest Cunliffe just starts telling the truth as its much easier to remember and maybe he should go through his CVs and “refresh” (I’m using quote marks to suggest that refresh means something different in case anyone was wondering) them before more of his “embellishments” come out

    • Tracey 21.1

      Are you saying lies matter to the electorate? Cos Key’s popularity suggests otherwise.

    • karol 21.2

      Gotta hand it to the righties – their lack of evidence keeps getting exposed & they keep right on with the same failed smear campaign.

      And that’s all you’ve got?

      Weak.

    • Rogue Trooper 21.3

      x.

    • lprent 21.4

      Puckish Rogue – just another moronic dickhead jerking off.

      This campaign by John Key against Cunliffe with his sock-hand up Hootens arse is simply pathetic.

      • Tracey 21.4.1

        is this why national claimed cunliffe didnt bother them cos of the CV of cunliffe??? This is like Mike Williams in 2008.

    • ghostrider888 21.5

      How’s that handle workin’ out for ya’. Maybe your mid-summers’ dream needs editing.

    • karol 21.6

      Haha! And Cunliffe has used the Birther/Kenya_sarc attack in his speech in the general debate today.

        • ghostrider888 21.6.1.1

          some humour in there karol, ‘specially the allegation David only has Joy Division on CD, not the original vinyl (was on TDB as well).

        • Tracey 21.6.1.2

          nice one.my faves

          “Giovanni Tiso ‏@gtiso

          Hooton currently going through Cunliffe’s kindergarten art folders, checking the paintings he signed were all his.”

          Philip Matthews ‏@secondzeit

          Matthew Hooton raises further questions after learning that David Cunliffe only has Joy Division on CD not the original vinyl.

          Martyn Bradbury ‏@CitizenBomber

          UNBREAKING: @MatthewHootonNZ rushed to hospital after choking on rage that Labour under Cunliffe jump up 6.8% – “Lies” he screamed

  22. chris73 22

    Whaleoil helpfully found this:

    http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:Lr9-zoPemccJ:https://www.facebook.com/Labour2014/info+&cd=24&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=nz

    “I was a Fulbright Scholar at Harvard University’s John F Kennedy School of Government and Harvard Business School, where I graduated with a Master of Public Administration.”

    – See that suggests he graduated from the Harvard Business School which is quite a well known and impressive school (I’ll admit it impressed me)

    “He held a Fulbright Scholarship at Harvard University’s John F Kennedy School of Government in 1994-1995, earning a Master of Public Administration.”

    – This is sounds quite different though I’m sure the John F Kennedy School of Government is impressive in its own right

    Cunliffe should hope he hasn’t got anymore embellishments lurking as he’ll start to suffer the death by a thousand cuts

    • Tracey 22.1

      like Key has from his lies you mean?? Has Whale Oil posted a link to BLiP’s post on honest man, you know to show balance and that he is an even-handed commentator? Have you posted BLiP’s post over there chris, since you developed this aversion to leaders lying??

      • chris73 22.1.1

        Why would he do that? Hes right-wing and doesn’t hide it just like this site is left-wing and doesn’t hide it either and thats the way i prefer it, he and this site are more honest then journalists because at least you know where they stand unlike journalists

    • McFlock 22.2

      Chris, if he had, say, failed to complete an MPA at a community college and claimed an MBA from Harvard, toridom would have a clear point.

      But he has an MPA from Harvard, attended HJFKSG as well as HBS, and really his only fault in the matter was to leave a little bit of semantic leeway for hoots and blowfish to invent a lie.

      If those are the worst lies you guys can invent, thinks are looking rosy red and bright green for 2014.

      • chris73 22.2.1

        Ackshully I get the feeling Cunliffe will provide more hits for National aided and abetted by the ABC club (which is where this stuffs coming from)

    • lprent 22.3

      Just as a point of reality (as much as I hate to introduce that strange concept to people so obviously addicted to the blue pills)…

      Most MPAs share courses, parts of courses, and lecturers with MBAs across the whole damn world – including Harvard. While there are quite a lot of differences between the commercial and public administration, they are characterised more by how similar their course content is than by their differences.

      What you’re really saying is that Cam Slater is a as thick as two short planks and would never be able to get a MBA or a MPA except off a diploma mill

      I guess you must fit into the same category? Dumbarse munter?

      • karol 22.3.1

        Has there been any WO attempted smear that ever really worked in the last few years?

        • lprent 22.3.1.1

          Not really. These 2008 style raptor attacks just cause me to start escalating the ban button. A couple for discussion is ok. When they try to do the stupid self-reinforcing crap then I just get irritated. They are as boring as the indignant whining on talkback

          • chris73 22.3.1.1.1

            Of course they work, if they didn’t work politicians wouldn’t use them and blogs (including this one) wouldn’t spend so much time discrediting those that use them (and vice versa of course)

            • karol 22.3.1.1.1.1

              I wasn’t referring to politicians using them, just WO. Why he keeps using such strategies when he fails more than he succeeds is a mystery to me.

              WO probably WO only succeeded at all back in the days when there really weren’t any sizable left wing blogs to discredit his shoddy smears and diversions. They only work at all if they provide the only views circulating and if they are allowed to fester on blogs like this, causing smokescreens and diversions.

              • chris73

                Heres the thing, lefties spin and the lefties on here believe it, the right spin and the righties believe it but its not what we who frequent blogs believe its what the general public believe

                For example the left have been spinning like mad the last few years that JK wants to sell NZ out to his american banker friends (he doesn’t by the way) and the left believe this and the right don’t but in the end the public have decided JK is the right person to lead NZ

                Now that Cunliffe is the leader of Labour hes going to go under justifiable scrutiny (as he may well end up leader of the country) to see what type of person he is and it looks like if he doesn’t outright lie on his CV then hes certainly guilty of embellishing it (which we all do) but its not the lie that ends you its the cover up (just ask Gilmour)

                If the righties can spin it enough that the people of NZ don’t trust Cunliffe then National will win and of course the left will be spinning to counter act…just remains to be seen who’ll win

                and winning is everything

                • geoff

                  God you’re an idiot.

                • karol

                  Pathetic, Chris73. What part of failed smear don’t you understand.

                  It’s Hooton that has ended up looking like a fool, and the only one under pressure for his dodgy tactics right now is Nick Smith.

                  • chris73

                    I’m sorry Karol I didn’t realise that you decided when a smear attack on the left was working or not so in future I’ll consult with you first

                    gotta go I’m “refreshing” my CV 🙂

                    • felix

                      If by “worked” you mean that half a dozen morans like yourself are still fapping, then yeah, sure it worked.

                      However the facts are that Hooten didn’t find a shred of proof for his utterly unbelievable lies, and he spent a whole day “explaining” himself to the media, who ultimately reported it as a failed smear attempt.

                    • karol

                      Ha! Chris! So you acknowledge it was a “smear attack”!

                      Double fail, mate – for admitting the aim, and trying to keep it going even when other righties and the MSM have given up on it.

                • Huginn

                  No chris73, we don’t all ’embellish’ our c.v.’s.

      • chris73 22.3.2

        Dancing on the head of a pin really

        He said he went to a particular institution:

        “Harvard Business School”

        and now its been removed

        I know you all love Cunliffe and believe him to be the messiah reborn but things like this (to the general public) looks like hes making shit up

        The question you really should be asking is who in the Labour caucus is supplying Andrea Vance…

        ABC = All Behind Cunliffe with a knife maybe

        • karol 22.3.2.1

          BS. It’s Hooton et al who have been shown to be dancing on the head of a pin. And has exposed the pathetic little attempt to use underhand means to divert from significant issues, and do a bit of personality politics smearing.

          All Cunliffe has done is clarify.

          The MSM really hasn’t run with this weak little smear attempt. Yet, a few like you keep trying to re-ignite the sparks of dying embers.

          Is that all you’ve got?

          • chris73 22.3.2.1.1

            So hes “refreshed” his CV twice so far, how many more times will it take for him to “refresh” his CV before you start to think that maybe sometimes is a bit iffy…don’t worry I already know the answer

            • karol 22.3.2.1.1.1

              And how many times has Hooton had to back pedal?

              • chris73

                Hootens not trying to become PM of NZ (at least not at this moment)

                • Colonial Viper

                  Yet you admire his “credibility” and “sincerity”, which I can only describe as deficient judgement on your part.

                  • chris73

                    No not really but I want National to win and this will help Nationals chances…I guess that sometimes the ends justified the means (something lefties are all too familiar with)

                    • Tracey

                      then dont say you admire integrity and sincerity which are contrary to Machievelli’s rules as Ramsey so eloquently pointed out yesterday while masquerading as a left leaning supporter.

                      Why will Cunliffe’s “lies” help National when Key’s lies help National? Is there something else at work? Are you saying National “work” the lies better?

    • Huginn 22.4

      No, it doesn’t.

      It sounds like Cunliffe is a Fulbright Scholar who was accepted into Harvard University and studied towards his Masters in Public Admin at Harvard’s John F Kennedy School of Government as well as the Harvard Business School.

      It’s all Harvard, Chris73. Cunliffe is a Harvard grad. Now stop embarrassing yourselves.

      Note:
      The John F. Kennedy School of Government at Harvard University is a public policy and public administration school, and one of Harvard’s graduate and professional schools. Wikipedia

      • chris73 22.4.1

        Hes been found guilty of embellishing his CV which fortunately (for most of us) isn’t illegal but does call into question his integrity whatever way you want to spin it

        • karol 22.4.1.1

          chris73, all that’s happening is you have been found guilty of embellishing a non-smear.

        • Huginn 22.4.1.2

          What, you’re saying he didn’t graduate from Harvard?

          • chris73 22.4.1.2.1

            His wording strongly suggested his qual came mainly from the Harvard Business School, hes now “refreshed” his CV and the Harvard Business School is gone

            So no I’m not saying he didn’t get his qual, I’m saying he made it sound as though he get it from a more well-known and prestigious institution…in other words embellishing

            • Huginn 22.4.1.2.1.1

              But they ARE the same institution.

              Harvard’s John F Kennedy School of Government and the Harvard Business School are all Harvard, chris73.

              Harvard’s John F Kennedy School of Government’s MPA is inter-disciplinary, so he needed to tell us where else at Harvard he had had studied for it. It’s a wonk thing – but ok for him to drop it when people began to mix the MPA up with Harvard’s MBA program which people know about watching TV.

              You’re embarrassing yourself with this.
              You guys are on much safer ground with the Royal Forest & Bird revelations. Fancy David Cunliffe telling everyone that he was a member when he clearly had not paid his subs. What a scoundrel! I bet he’s in Al Qaeda too.

              You should go and check his birth certificate . . . straight away.

              • Colonial Viper

                It appears that chris73 knows jackshit about

                a) Harvard University
                b) using wikipedia

                • chris73

                  You know as well as I do that people will read the headline and skim the article (TLDR) which means an image of Cunliffe embellishing his CV is starting to build

                  and if he embellishes this what else does he embellish…

  23. Chris which word allows you to leap to ‘mainly’? It’s clear on any interpretation of either version of the CV that Cunliffe graduated with an MPA from Harvard. The degree comprised of papers taken at both the Kennedy School and the Business School. Quite likely there were other papers from other specialist areas. That’s what happens at universities all over the world every year. And as for your assertion that the Business School is more prestigious and well known, that is merely your opinion.

  24. felix 24

    chris73 this is a message from Control.

    Please stop.

    Message ends.

    • Tracey 24.1

      I think everyone is being unfair to chris73. Afterall havent we been waiting for Key’s supporters to give a shit about lying or embellishing or misleading? If he is frothing this much over the CV of Cunliffe he must be crying himself to sleep over Keystone Cops “embellishments.

      “looks like hes making shit up”

      “which fortunately (for most of us) isn’t illegal but does call into question his integrity whatever way you want to spin it”

      ” maybe you could teach Cunliffe some ethics then”

      We have a convert, we should be welcoming him. Can someone point me to the posts he has made on other blogs in the last couple of days dissecting Key’s misleads/lies/embellishments? I would even venture to WO’ site to read that.

      Well done chris, your original notion that everyone embellishes CV’s seems to have given way to an almost obsessive need to prove a lie from Cunliffe. Hold the leaders to account is what I say. Expect higher standards from them than us.

      By the way, I look forward to reading your point by point condemnation of these embellishments and the links to where they have been corrected or acknowledged. If you need the weekend to complete it, I can wait.

  25. Tracey 25

    More comments from chris73 on standards he expects from our leaders. he has moved his stance over the past few days though. So good on him, change is hard, especially ideology:

    “So Cunliffe was either economical with the truth (again) or embellished his CV (again) and the MSM dutifully reported it (again)

    Not a good rep to have in the lead up to an election”

    “To quote Dr House

    “Everybody lies””

    ” I don’t think its that bad I mean everyone embellishes their CV and people expect politicians to tell porkies”

    “Hootens not trying to become PM of NZ (at least not at this moment)”

    He probably wont vote Labour, he wont vote ACT (Banks breaches his code) and he clearly has abandoned National… He is facing an ideological crisis and we need to exten a supportive hand to him

    • Huginn 25.1

      I know, I know. My heart went out to the flakey little guy when he made this sad but revealing admission about:

      ’embellishing [one’s cv] (which we all do)’

      He’s definitely trying to make himself some sort of a path to self reconstruction.

      chris73 – if you’re reading this – I want you to give yourself permission to embellish yourself into whatever you want to be. Don’t hold back – you must let yourself embellish your self into the grand, powerful and splendid creature that you know you want to be.

      Big hugs from your friend Huginn

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