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Nats, have some pride in what you believe

Written By: - Date published: 10:58 am, August 7th, 2008 - 25 comments
Categories: national, slippery - Tags:

So, now we know that three National frontbenchers were recorded talking about a secret agenda at the cocktail do last Friday. Think about what this means: it is inconceivable that all three were somehow ‘tricked’ into talking about a secret agenda, inconceivable that all three used such “loose language” that they accidentally contradicted their party’s public policy when talking to National delegates the one time they were being recorded. It is clear now that this National Party conference and probably any function where Nats think they are only talking to each other is full of talk about their real agenda and how they are hiding it from the public.

National brought these recordings on themselves. It has been obvious for some time that they are running a secret agenda but there has been no proof. Now someone has provided that proof. If National did not have a secret agenda, there would be no recordings, there would be no scandal.

It’s time for National to finally, finally be honest with the people it wants so desperately to govern. Admit that behind closed doors the party is planning a far more radical right-wing agenda, very different from what it has been saying in public. Drop the moderate facade, it’s so cracked and torn that it has become an embarrassment. Regain your dignity as a party; campaign on what you believe in. If you think your secret agenda is the best plan for the country have some pride and have some belief in the people of this country; talk to us about it.

25 comments on “Nats, have some pride in what you believe ”

  1. Craw 1

    Dear oh dear. Dirty ol’ Standard implicated in yet another Labour backed operation. You boy’s really are slippery.

  2. higherstandard 2

    As this is more of the same I have nothing more to add to my comments here

    Judy Kirk – “It was a young Nat”

    and here

    Judy Kirk – “It was a young Nat”

  3. I’ve been thinking the exact same thing over the past few days. If National really believes in honesty and transparency they would tell us why they want to sell off assets and how they think this will benefit us. It’s about time National argued for what it truly believes in.

  4. Craw. ‘boys’, not ‘boy’s’, and actually it should be ‘boys and girls’

  5. Tim Ellis 5

    Steve I was at the National Party conference and I didn’t hear any secret agenda at all. So who to believe, somebody who was at the national party conference legally or somebody who was standing outside it protesting about it? There isn’t a secret agenda and this is just spin from you. A secret agenda is a plan to do something differently in office to what you plan to do on the election hustings. You know like the secret agenda that Labour rammed through in 1984 when Helen Clark was a minister and Michael Cullen was too.

  6. [lprent: Banned – so deleted.]

  7. TBPH – I think its obvious who the National mole is – Judith Collins for her welfare policies outlined earlier.

    Also, if people haven’t seen the Close-up Hoskings v Key interview, it may pay to take a look.

    http://tvnz.co.nz/view/video_popup_windows_skin/1986026

  8. Tim Ellis. Well, we’ve heard three recordings of senior Nats telling delegates about their secret agenda and it’s simply not credible that those were the only comments made about a secret agenda… maybe you’re not in the in-crowd?

  9. r0b 9

    edited – no longer relevant

  10. Tim Ellis 10

    No we haven’t heard three recordings of that SP. What we have heard is a spy crashing a conference event and trying to goad National MPs into making admissions about difficult policy areas, and English saying that National’s policy is to hold on to kiwibank this term even though some National supporters don’t like it; Lockwood Smith saying National has had to change some of its policies to make itself more electable (like that’s news, National changed its anti-nuclear stance in 1990 because they knew they wouldn’t get elected on a nuclear platform and stuck to it, despite some wanting to change it).

    SP I back my knowledge of what goes on at National Party conferences than you do. But to be fair we are both biased. If there really was a secret agenda being expressed at national party conferences then the media would have picked it up. They haven’t. The big story is about labour party spies using dirty tricks to try and entrap MPs into saying things. I wrote in another thread a conversation I had with a Labour minister recently where he said that Labour will lose the election, made a lot of comments about Labour MPs which weren’t very nice, among others. If I recorded that conversation then he wouldn’t speak to me again. I suppose when you are a labour party supporter in such desperate times then you don’t really care if people don’t speak to you again. You are more interested in burning down the house.

    [lprent: As I said before. Personally I’d say you were lying about the conversation. I’ve found that labour politicians generally follow Rodney Hides dictum. What you describe is just a righties wet dream. Of course if you could prove it, say with a tape, then I might start to take it seriously. ]

  11. r0b 11

    The big story is about labour party spies using dirty tricks

    You are a liar, spreading lies.

    The person in question has denied having any party affiliations – see this TV3 news piece.

  12. Tim Ellis 12

    Calm down rob. I am not spreading lies. Read the opinion pieces in the herald and the dom this morning. They are about the ethics of using these dirty tactics to entrap MPs during secret recordings. rob given the person is anonymous and stooped to these tactics I don’t think we can take it as gospel what he says. That’s like believing Winston knew nothing about the Spencer Trust. Just because he says that doesn’t mean we automatically have to assume he’s being truthful. Winston is a proven liar in a court of law and is clearly a hypocrite. I don’t believe him. The person who sneaked into a National Party conference and used these gutter secret recordings to goad MPs into saying things.

    You can object to my saying they are labour party spies if you like. That is my belief rather than established fact but it is honest belief that the person conducting these secret recordings is a Labour party supporter, which is yet to be established. I believe in due course it will be established because the media are now on a witch-hunt and it won’t stay secret for long.

  13. r0b 13

    I am not spreading lies

    Ahhh – yes you are.

    You can object to my saying they are labour party spies if you like.

    Why thank you, very kind.

    That is my belief rather than established fact

    Then state it as a belief. Because when you state as a fact things that are not proven as fact, and are directly contradicted by the only person in a position to know, you are a liar spreading lies.

  14. Tim Ellis 14

    LP I don’t tell lies and I object to you calling me a liar. The scenario is not far-fetched and it happened. You ban anybody who calls you or a standard poster a liar. You have no evidence I am lying, and I am not calling you a liar but I do not believe that a labour party activist with close connections to labour party caucus members would have totally sterile, gossip free conversations with those caucus members. It challenges belief that there are no rivalries in caucus, whether petty or substantial. I am not calling you a liar and I understand that you are a party activist. I would ask you to extend the same courtesy to me. You might not agree with me but calling me a liar because I didn’t stoop to doing a secret recording of my conversation with a labour minister and then publishing it is going too far. Yes, it is hearsay, and not admissable in a court as evidence. But that is not the point.

  15. I fail to see what is unethical about someone asking a wannabe Minister of the Crown for his position on important policies and then reporting that position to the people he wants to vote for him… if there was no secret agenda there wouldn’t be any secret recording… National brought this on themselves by lying to the people of New Zealand.

  16. Phil 16

    “The person in question has denied having any party affiliations”

    Tui bill-board, anyone? Get your head out of the sand r0b…

  17. r0b 17

    Innocent until proven guilty Phil. You Nat lynch mob types ought to have a wee break, a nice soothing cup of tea, and a bit of a think about that.

  18. lprent 18

    TE: “You have no evidence I am lying” – exactly. Otherwise I’d have specified and not used the words “Personally I think…”

    I suppose I should stop being lazy and write this as a comment. I have quite a lot of conversations with various politico’s all of the time, some social, and some while helping out. They are often about speculative topics, including post-Helen political structures.

    I’ve never heard a labour politician who says the lines straight out of Whale’s site or out of the cesspool that is DPF’s comment section. That is exactly what your description sounded like. As I said it sounds like a rightie’s wet dream.

    Frankly I don’t believe it without some verifiable evidence.

  19. Ari 19

    Phil- perhaps, but that’s the best we’ve got. National has proved nothing, it has made a bunch of empty allegations against its opponents. That is a dirty tricks campaign, and you didn’t hear Labour complaining about National plants when Mike Williams got caught out. Front up, chaps and chapesses.

  20. darryl 20

    “I’ve never heard a labour politician who says the lines straight out of Whale’s site or out of the cesspool that is DPF’s comment section.”

    Well actually Lynn I think John Tamihere would probably disagree with you… and look what happened to him!

    Personally I agree with Rodney Hyde, say what you think in public and private and that way you’re not likely to get tripped up by dirty little sneaks.

  21. Matt 21

    secret agenda – how is it a secret agenda that some national MP’s wouldn’t mind privatising some enterprises? (it should be noted that NZ would undoubtedly gain from having in the private sector) that just goes hand in hand with supporting enterprise. It doesn’t mean that is part of National policy, only a long term possibility.

    Labour MP’s wouldn’t mind nationalising a bit more, for no sound economic reason other than that they oppose private enterprise and free trade. to say SOE belongs to the people is a complete lie, and everytime a labour MP repeats that BS they are lying. You only have to listen to Clark on Key’s banking background and you realise that these people have nothing but contempt for hard work and initiative.

    Labour believe in themselves only, national believes in the people and their abilities. It really is as simple as National = morally good, Labour = morally repugnant.

    and on the Mike Williams thing – he got caught out conspiring to break the law. big difference

  22. r0b 22

    and on the Mike Williams thing – he got caught out conspiring to break the law.

    Wrong.

  23. Razorlight 23

    rOb he may not have been conspiring…but he did say it was a bloody good idea!

  24. r0b 24

    Yes he did. And it wasn’t a good idea. But it wasn’t against any law either.

  25. Draco TB 25

    to say SOE belongs to the people is a complete lie,

    No it isn’t. An SOE belongs to the people because we paid for it – no lying about that. The reason why we paid for them is because they are economically unfeasible for private enterprise to set up while being a public good. This applies to all natural monopolies such as Telecom, power, roads etc

    It really is as simple as National = morally good, Labour = morally repugnant.

    The only evidence that’s come out though indicates that National are lying and that points to their morals – they don’t have any.

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