Written By:
Anthony R0bins - Date published:
7:22 am, June 28th, 2013 - 72 comments
Categories: accountability, john key, Social issues -
Tags: arrogance, convention centre, gambling, sky city
Key’s grubby little deal on the Sky City convention center is about as popular as halitosis. The people don’t want it:
Support disappears for convention deal
Survey finds 61 per cent of people against SkyCity deal with Government which will give it more poker machines
Public opinion has turned against the Government’s SkyCity international convention centre deal just days before it is due to be signed off, allowing for 230 extra poker machines at the downtown Auckland casino.
The latest Herald-DigiPoll survey shows 61.5 per cent of those polled disapprove of the deal while 33.8 per cent approve.
That’s a sharp turnaround from a year ago when a similar poll found 40.3 per cent disapproved and 57.3 supported it.
(There are valid methodological quibbles with the comparison with the earlier survey, but 61% opposed is still a strong finding.)
The Auckland City Council doesn’t want it:
Council opposes convention centre deal
The Auckland Council has come out against the Government’s deal for a convention centre to built in return for laws allowing increased casino gambling.
Casino operator SkyCity has agreed to build the $400 million centre, in return for Government concessions that include an extended licence, an extra 230 gaming machines and up to 60 gaming tables.
Thursday’s vote does not affect the deal between the Government and SkyCity and is largely a symbolic gesture against the concessions. But the council is also demanding more measures to curb problem gambling and the release of a report on the social impacts of the deal.
Councillor Cathy Casey proposed the vote, which sparked lengthy debate before being passed by 10 votes to 7, and said it reflects anger that the Government has not consulted with Auckland over the deal. …
Key will carry on regardless of course, because he’s tied himself too closely to this deal, he thinks there are benefits and doesn’t care about the costs, and because he is much too arrogant to back down.
The current rise of populism challenges the way we think about people’s relationship to the economy.We seem to be entering an era of populism, in which leadership in a democracy is based on preferences of the population which do not seem entirely rational nor serving their longer interests. ...
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Not too many people will want Key’s share offerings either, considering the downward spiral of the MRP share price. But then none of this is about what people want is it?
Nope, it’s only about what the rich want.
What costs?
Are there currently queues behind pokie machines at the moment?, is sky city fill of desperate gamblers fighting to have a go on the pokies?
This create extra problem gamblers argument is a load of horse shit, moving pokies out of the pubs where they really cause social issues and centralizing them back in casinos will probably cause a decrease in problem gambling.
Free convention center providing jobs for many for a couple of extra pokie machines, I can’t understand why people are against this, is it just to spite John Key and National.? or is it just people don’t think particularity clearly and get all emotive when the words “pokie machine” is used.
What costs?
Typical ignorance.
https://www.msd.govt.nz/documents/about-msd-and-our-work/publications-resources/journals-and-magazines/social-policy-journal/spj21/21-pages22-40.pdf
http://www.fmhs.auckland.ac.nz/soph/centres/cgs/_docs/2001brown_gambling_harm.pdf
https://www.msd.govt.nz/documents/about-msd-and-our-work/publications-resources/journals-and-magazines/social-policy-journal/spj21/21-pages178-201.pdf
http://www.moh.govt.nz/notebook/nbbooks.nsf/8b635a98811e8aed85256ca8006d4e51/42e039fb23675599cc256fc3007b80f5/$FILE/problemgambling-strategicplan-2004-2010.pdf
https://www.health.govt.nz/system/files/documents/publications/gambling-final-draft-six-year-strategic-plan.doc
http://www.eastonbh.ac.nz/2010/04/the-benefits-and-costs-of-gambling-some-policy-implications/
http://www.odt.co.nz/news/politics/257152/govt-warned-skycity-pokie-social-cost
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1305/S00255/social-harm-of-skycity-deal-must-be-costed.htm
I’ll be blunt, I really don’t care about a hand full of problem gamblers, if they can’t control themselves that’s their problem.
99% of people can go into a casino spend $20,$50 $100 dollars lose it and go home and say they’ve had a good night.
It’s the 1% who have the problem and need to face up to their responsibilities and deal with their gambling issues like adults.
The 99% of people should not be disadvantaged and penalized because of the 1%.
How are the 99
% being punished if things stay as they are. You understand the only people who can be prevented from entering a casino volunteer to be trespassed out. This make the figures about who is a problem gambler problematic because they only include those volunteers and some in therapy
Did you read one link above?
So how is building a convention center going to harm the 1% any further?
There’s an abundance of gambling options at the moment, what will a few extra pokie machines in a convention center do.
Why will problem gamblers use the pokie machines in the convention center instead of the existing ones at the casino or the ones at their local pub.?
“I’ll be blunt”
As always, you are never very sharp are you BM. So what next….vending machines full of drugs? If these addicts can’t control themselves it’s just stiff shit aye.
“The 99% of people should not be disadvantaged and penalized because of the 1%.”
Yeah the super-rich should have to clean up their act before BM confiscates all their wealth. Good luck.
“just trying to get through a difficult time using humour”- Bender Bending. 🙂
“Bite my shiney metal ass” 🙂
I totally agree , i am getting a bit tired of this old issue , move along nothing to see , free convention center , i think its a great deal and about time Shearer agreed.
It’s not free – it’s going to cost us several million dollars per year as well as major societal harm.
“I can’t understand why people are against this”
because its not free
all that is “free” is the build costs – not the operating costs and not the social costs
So why is Labour for it
http://www.labour.org.nz/sites/labour.org.nz/files/2011%20Labour%20Party%20Manifesto.pdf
Len thinks it’s a great idea as well
http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/len-brown-reconfirms-support-skycity-convention-centre-checked-and-ready-go-gb-136763
Social costs – fuck all, not even worth considering.
Build costs 400 million
If this conference center loses 4 million a year it would still take 100 years before we’d be any worse off if it was tax payer funded.
If it can pull more conferences like this, it will be worth it
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/AK1306/S00651/auckland-wins-leading-tourism-education-conference.htm
you do realise the we have to pay fees to the center in good times and bad dont you?
Key gets his convention centre, the business community gets the use of the centre
and the citizens get the bills for maintenance and upkeep, just the kind of deal John Key likes, F88k the citizens they are only there to keep the country working.
And the bills to deal with the social problems caused by the extra gambling.
Free convention center ?
They already have a convention center, the jobs all around are casual jobs.
While jobs are desirable, pokie machines are especially destructive for a good portion of the gamblers.
construction industry priorities
build convention centre in Auckland
build convention centre in Christchurch
build rugby stadium in Christchurch
build city rail loop in Auckland
.
.
.
build houses
no wonder house prices are insane in this country
a two-bedroom, Duplex, 80m2, no parking, handkerchief of land, CV 570K in Ponsonby was discussed on Breakfast; sold for 945K.
945K for 80m2!?!?
That’s pure insanity. I’m currently thinking of buying in Seattle because rental stock is so constrained it has become more or less cheaper to pay a mortgage than rent. For that price here I could buy a beautiful 3 brm, 2.5 bath, house, modern or old but with quality refurb, in the range of about 220-250 m2, in one of the trendiest inner city suburbs a few kilometers from the CBD (certainly walking distance for me since I regularly do walk it). Absolutely no one should be buying any houses in New Zealand. Every poor bastard who thinks it’s their dream needs a reality check because houses there in NZ are ridiculously over valued.
few people moving to the provinces apparently; that’s the NAct Regional Development strategy. 😉
Remember the bike trails were first priority when they won power
But polls dont count remember
They do to national. Their internal polling drives much decision making
I would’ve thought that was a good thing?
Only if it drives them to make good decisions. With National, making good decisions is out of the question.
Congratulations to Cathy Casey for driving the resolution passed yesterday and for campaigning effectively against the convention centre.
She was interviewed on Radio NZ this morning and in typical Cathy style said it as she saw it.
http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2560224/doubt-over-whether-council-will-continue-issuing-consents.asx
Who wants to bet the new crossing wont have a dedicated bus lane let alone a light rail track.
there was no talk amongst aucklanders about needing a convention centre before key told us we needed one. Whereas rail comes up at dinner all the time
Maybe sky could help fund the rail loop… to assist getting people to their casino… or the crossing…
Guess what, Tracey – that very same suggestion has been made in today’s Herald : that Sky had something to do with the Govt U-turn on the rail loop
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10893480
You must have a big dinner table.
I can tell you convention centre never came up. You do see the irony of accusing me of speaking for everyone when you just made your 1 versus 99% comment above?
I think that Len Brown’s achievement in getting Key to commit to light rail in Auckland has just firmed up his national leadership options after Shearers vote implodes during the next election.
I thought brown had one eye on the mayorlty when he waxed lyrical about key and key had two eyes on the polls when he agreed to fund the loop. Doesnt leave much confidence that either of them had nz or aucklands best interests at heart. Prime example of right and left being as bad as each other.
I think that depends where you sit, Tracey. If you are a ‘high net-worth individual’ (in the the local parlance) you are near the top of the pyramid – financially strong but numerically weak. If you are not – struggling to get by like most – you are numerically strong but relatively financially weak.
Hence the campaigns to sway the masses by those with the dosh and the use of a sympathetic trickster / clown as ruler. God knows what Key is getting out of this – he certainly is not doing it for the salary. Perhaps someone has sold him on the notion of NZ becoming a ‘Southern Ocean Energy Superpower’ if they can find commercially exploitable hydrocarbon resources (ie oil) off West Northland, Hawkes Bay, Southern Wairarapa, and the remnants of the continent of Zelandia somewhere west of Bluff.
“There’s many a slip
twixt cup and lip”
once wrote an experienced corn speculator, tudor propagandist, theatrical entrepreneur, actor, and playwright.
if rail is included, is it likely to branch off Aotea rather than Britomart then.
I find this post to be very offensive.
I don’t want the one in CHCH either. Build one in Auckland or Christchurch, not both. There’s no point building massive centres in both of these cities, so that they both sit empty half the time.
My bet is that when built, the convention centre will be a white elephant that is hopelessly underutilized. We can’t overcome the tyranny of distance that makes New Zealand unattractive to the big conventions and annual meetings.
quite possibly.
What like the Aotea Centre in Auckland
Agree. Instead of this soulless build, why not spend (encourage) on R&D for some of our smaller innovative business ideas?
ok – this is a dumb decision however I like democracy so will accept the majority.
Now – so they want the rail loop line – go spend $3B and where are all those commuters from the airport go to go – I know in a loop.
Guess what – people will go to a casino if they want.
Cathy casey was not born in NZ – she is from scotland isnt she? Now didnt she vote against alot of things when she was down in wellington.
well, according to that veteran ‘trainspotter’ Marcus Lush (who ” has never voted for the Tories”), the CRL is a “game-changer”. Certainly a “triumph for Len Brown”.
What loop?
The CRL is a link.
Your entire comment seems to be a homage to your ignorance.
that Ak Transport blogger, Cameron Pitcher, seemed enthused, and, an enthusiastic chappie.
The Herald digipoll quoted in the post is the same poll – asking the same 750 people – as the one which was so bad for Shearer earlier.
But this isn’t new. Again, the same poll showed majority support for an inquiry into the GCSB (i.e. the opposition’s stance).
Polls have consistently shown support for opposition policies on Sky City, NZ Power, asset sales, CGT, charter schools and so on. Sometimes Key responds by making concessions (food in schools, Auckland rail). But mostly he just carries on regardless, knowing that he can’t be hurt.
Of course, if the opposition leader actually stood up and said “No deal with Sky City, no 35 years, no way” then his own polling might be better. But he doesn’t, so it isn’t.
The people make their views clear. They’d like a Labour leader who can do the same. Soon, please.
(Cathy Casey available?)
+1
using the same argument, fewer people want labour in power than want a convention centre. could almost squeek the greens into that too.
But it doesn’t actually matter because Labour are so in-effective at the moment.
I imagine all these monuments to National Party egos, once built, could fairly easily be converted for other uses (Lecture theatres maybe, or something similar).
If these buggers persist in forging ahead with such projects (at the expense of trying to remedy more pressing matters – such as the plight of ChCh residents, amny of whom after 3 frikken YEARS are still living in 3rd world conditions), then it seems to me that an opposition when it comes to power has a mandate to do what it can to ‘make changes’.
That shady 35 year deal for example …..
No future gubbamint need be held to the comfy little backroom shaister deals – and even if (legally) there are threats – an opposition with balls can easily introduce measures that would make them think twice about trying it on in future.
If only we had an opposition with balls.
One day Roger Fitch!
Where is self responsiblity – the self discipline of the individual in all of this?
Why is it societies responsibility to hold the hand of every retard who wants to throw their money down a “pokie machine.”
Where does it end? – lets ban fast food outlets, alcohol outlets, cigarette outlets – lets also stop kids riding bikes and climbing trees because the might get hurt – ban cars because people get killed.
For godness sake get a grip of yourselves – do really believe there are people sitting at home waiting for Sky City to put some extra machines in their Casino, just so they can become problem gamblers as soon as they do!!
Shite, bloody PC do gooders.
“Where does it end?”
With logic?
Why aren’t there pokies in every hospital ward? Why aren’t you campaigning for them? Do you hate freedom?
This whole post, and many of the comments looks rather desperate.
So today John Key has made a whole lot of transport announcements, all well received. Over the last few days; the funding plan and priorities for Christchurch, all done. Wellington transport; sorted. The Convention Centre, soon to start, (and frankly Cathy Casey is not where the Council is at).
The economy; doing OK, actually by international standards pretty well. Ironically the buzz in the Auckland property does reflect this confidence.
To the public, in aggregate it all looks like progress. So it is no surprise the Nats are doing well in the polls.
But Labour, what are they doing, where is the plan? And I don’t mean a few disjointed (even if mildly popular) policies. Certainly DS doesn’t seem to articulate a plan.
But I think you know all this, hence the rather desperate post.
“Cathy Casey is not where the Council is at”
She’s a siren who used her feminine wiles to make the Council vote the way they didn’t want to?
Or are you just a maths dunce?
PS You righties need better lines than “Wot about Shearer?”. That’s ours.
Of course I saw who voted. But I don’t think George Wood is really against the convention centre. In fact that whole vote seems like an odd little diversion, given the following votes. But I guess Cathy is happy.
Fair point about DS, but I do actually like to see both sides put up their best players so the voters the best choice (not that I necessarily thought that when I was in Govt).
But I would note that DS was the Opposition spokesman on both my portfolios. You judge if I seemed troubled by that. Surely you would expect that a future leader should have been able to take down a second bench Minister, or at the very least, seriously undermine them.
Nobody thought Shearer had it then, nobody thinks it now – except a handful of hacks who would support a stuffed aubergine if it had the right colour rosette (and every party has those).
Even those in caucus who promoted him did so only because of who he wasn’t. They hoped they could get away with it. They haven’t. He’s a goner.
National’s problem is that their re-election prospects depend on Labour keeping Shearer. Once their free pass is gone, they’ll be in trouble.
Now thats a burn
“This whole post, and many of the comments looks rather desperate.”
That’s a curious conclusion. I say this because the construction of the Conference Centre is going to be an anchor around the Government’s neck in mid town Auckland during an election year.
Yeah right, Once construction starts attitudes will change.
How out of touch with ordinary/every day Aucklanders is the government? I guess there’ll just be maximum media coverage to encourage Aucklanders to care about something that adds nothing to their lives – and in times when life can be quite a struggle for many people.
I have not heard anyone talk about this as a need for Auckland – improved transport, yes; housing issues, yes; SkyCity? something for the wealthy, not for most middle or low income Aucklanders.
You couldn’t say something funnier if you tried.
^^ And most people know this.
Wot Wayne said
Dear Leader fronted up to Mary Wilson on RNZ this afternoon. Is this the first time? I believe so. What is he up to?
once constriction starts blocking victoria and hobson streets and ten thousand people are stranded for an hour twice daily , attitudes will indeed change
😀
‘
If the convention centre is such a good deal why won’t John Key tell the truth . . .
. . . I mean, if he has nothing to fear he has nothing to hide, right?