North of 2

Written By: - Date published: 2:13 pm, February 1st, 2015 - 138 comments
Categories: climate change, Environment, global warming, Politics, science - Tags: , , , ,

Kevin Anderson, Deputy Director of the Tyndall Centre for Climate Change Research, reported the following exchanges he’d been party to, at a presentation he made back in 2012. (transcript and accompanying powerpoint presentation available from the link provided)

Too much is invested in 2°C for us to say its not possible – it would undermine all that’s been achieved It’ll give a sense of hopelessness – we may as well just give in

K.A. – Are you suggesting we have to lie about our research findings?

Well, perhaps just not be so honest – more dishonest …”

(exchange between unnamed Senior UK Political Scientist and Kevin Anderson 2010)

 “We can’t tell them (ministers & politicians) it’s impossible We can say it’s a stretch and ambitious – but that, with political will, 2°C is still a feasible target”

(unnamed Senior Advisor to UK government – 2010)

 “Our position is challenging enough, I can’t go (to Copenhagen) with the message that 2°C is impossible – it’s what we’ve all worked towards”

(UK Secretary of State for the Department of Energy and Climate Change (2009)

 “well, I think we’re on for 4 to 6 degrees C but we just can’t be open about it.”

(Unnamed senior UK Government Scientist and Shell Oil big wig at Chatham House – The Royal Institute of International Affairs)

 

Let’s not put too fine a point on things here folk – we’re being lied to with regards 2 degrees C warming. The answer to the question ‘Why?’ would seem to come down to the fact that the levels and speed of reductions in CO2 called for by science are incompatible with any on-going economic growth. So, there is political interference being run on what are meant to be scientific reports.

Interference comes in the form of using old and favourable CO2 emission rate increases in reports. Those rates can be way below current emission rate increases. (eg Stern in his lauded 2006 report factored in emission growth of 0.95% when the known and available rate was 2.4%) In 2009 – 2010, the growth in emission rates was 5.9% before falling to 3.2% in 2010 – 2011)

Or we can mess with CO2 budgets. The IPCC was given a figure of 1400 billion tons of carbon that could be dumped into the atmosphere over the course of this century (by the Hadley Centre) in order to hold temperatures to around 2 degrees C. The IPCC then goes ahead, doubles that base line, and bases it’s analysis for 2 degrees C on 2 900 billion tons of atmospheric carbon over the course of the century.

And then there is the belief, factored into so-called scientific reports that technology will allow us to suck CO2 out of the air and shove it into the ground. Short version. The technology does not exist at present and may never exist.

There are other ways figures and parameters in reports are routinely massaged. The point is, it seems everything’s game when the main aim is to spin a story about a two degrees future rather than write up reports based on scientific evidence and data.

Strip out the faith in technologies not yet developed and that may never be developed; use available, up to date, data; stick to parameters that give high degrees of certainty, and what the science tells us, pretty fucking bluntly, is that we’re heading for 4 degrees or 6 degrees and that a 2 degrees future is virtually impossible now.

So, where are the scientists willing to speak up and speak out?

I guess the answer lies in the examples made of those from any prominent walk of life who have had the temerity to be critical. They get pilloried in public but in addition, my guess is that all scientists live with an implicit threat regarding ongoing or future employment and/or funding.

So where does all of this leave us? Anyone?

 

138 comments on “North of 2 ”

  1. One Anonymous Bloke 1

    Pleading self defence?

  2. There is no magic savior – technology or aliens.

    We are being lied to continuously.

    Some people will never accept the truth.

    There is no political will to make the changes that could mitigate our ability to respond to the climate changes occurring.

    Even with the political will, most people won’t give up anything if it means adjusting their lifestyle.

    what to do – well i posted a jmg article about “downshifting our technological infrastructure to roughly 1950 – you said “My first reaction is to go in the opposite(?) direction.”
    http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-30012015/#comment-959689
    The reality is that no country addicted to the gods of progress is going to even entertain going back – even if it makes sense and is practically the only thing a country could do.

    what to do – if the country won’t do it we will have to do it ourselves, although I’d be aiming for earlier than 1950 personally. imo it is about the only thing we can do – it will give us the best chance of riding the slide, it will build personal resilience, responsibility, priorities and community.

    what to do – we need a movement dedicated to revitalising the old skills, the old ways of doing things based upon our lives today – I am interested in trying to build this, if you (whoever reads this) are email me.

    what to do – I posted another jmg post about talking to those who went through WW2, read the accounts of what happened to ordinary people during WW1 and the depressions.

    what to do – front up and destroy illusions of it can’t happen, it won’t happen, we don’t deserve it to happen, I don’t want it to happen, something will stop it happening, I refuse to believe it is already happening – and start making preparations, start planning and start learning – plus build community and trust/love with those you care about.

    what to do – if you aren’t happy with your personal situation/where you live/what you do – make changes quickly, while you can before you can’t.

    • Bill 2.1

      The thing is Marty, that you or I making radical changes isn’t really going to have much effect on the global situation. It isn’t you or I who are significant contributors to AGW. (Yes, we do do stuff that would be better not done and I’m not saying we should carry on blithely).

      But I believe the best we can hope for is to disable the main culprits – the 5 – 10% of the human population who are responsible for a huge chunk of emissions.

      How to do that? Well a general labour and debt strike would do it. How to get the necessary numbers garnered to pull off such a thing? Well, blowing the gaff on the lies being fed to us (happy 2 degree possibilities) would be a bloody good start imo.

      • marty mars 2.1.1

        Yep I suppose I’m saying that energy spent on trying to change stuff that can’t or won’t be changed is a waste of energy.

        but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be screaming their lies as loud as possible for all to hear so keep it up and if there is a strike or three I’ll be there in support and solidarity.

      • Colonial Rawshark 2.1.2

        BTW rebuilding middle class incomes and greatly improving income inequality will all lead to much higher economic consumption.

        The classic goals of the Left to raise living standards for all also pumps CO2 into the atmosphere.

        The thing is Marty, that you or I making radical changes isn’t really going to have much effect on the global situation

        I think one of the most effective things we can do politically is to force Labour to accept the reality of near term fossil fuel depletion and extreme climate change.

        BTW the World Bank sees 4 deg C temperature rise as a credible scenario.

        • weka 2.1.2.1

          “I think one of the most effective things we can do politically is to force Labour to accept the reality of near term fossil fuel depletion and extreme climate change.”

          Ideas on how to do that?

          • Paul 2.1.2.1.1

            Vote Green

            • weka 2.1.2.1.1.1

              yes, that’s one good way, but I’d hazard a guess it wasn’t what CV was thinking.

              • Paul

                Yes and cv is not going to effect change from a party that believes In economic growth.

                • weka

                  I remain hopeful of CV’s ability to effect change where he is 🙂

                • the Greens believe in economic growth don’t they?

                  • Paul

                    Sadly, you are right, I think. The Greens certainly aren’t perfect, but they are the best on offer in NZ to deal with climate change unless one sets up a new party.
                    In reality, the most progress is made by organisations and people out of parliament.

                  • The greens are 100% behind growth.
                    What with Norman wanting an inquiry into the loss of manufacturing jobs (as if closing planet fucking factories was a bad thing?) to printing money which finances more planet destruction, to coning the general dumb public GDP into believing a growth based ponzie savings scheme will pay out a pension to the 2million investors over the next 40+ years.
                    Total BS and lies.
                    Until they front up on Kiwi Saver I will hold them in contempt.
                    The Greens are a bigger problem than National or Act, at least those two they are being honest, they want to destroy the planet. Where as the Greens are offering ‘hope’ when there isn’t any.

                    400ppm CO2 + 600 ppm CO2e = goodby humans

      • weka 2.1.3

        Bill,

        “How to do that? Well a general labour and debt strike would do it. How to get the necessary numbers garnered to pull off such a thing? Well, blowing the gaff on the lies being fed to us (happy 2 degree possibilities) would be a bloody good start imo.”

        The two things you and marty are talking about are not only not incompatible, they’re both mutually interdependent and it’s essential they both happen, probably within a similar timeframe.

        What marty is talking about will give people the sense of security to do what you are talking about. Fear alone won’t do it (eg telling the truth about 2C*), you need to give people a creative way out or a way forward, and that’s why as well as mass political movement, we need mass transition/powerdown movement too.

        *just to clarify, your post today is essential and very good (easy read and accessible) and I certainly hope we see more of this kind of thing. I’m saying that when we say these things more we also have to give people something to do that will make them feel like change is worth it. There are very good reasons why those British scientists and politicians reacted to Anderson in the way they did. They’re human, and most humans aren’t designed to cope with catastrophe on this scale. One way to help people cope with the trauma is to lie/encourage cognitive dissonance. The other is to give them positive actions/solutions that engage other parts of their psyches.

        • Bill 2.1.3.1

          I don’t think that I was really disagreeing with martymars the other day. Not substantially anyway. Regardless.

          Meanwhile, this type of thing comes up in some form or another over and over again…

          They’re human, and most humans aren’t designed to cope with catastrophe on this scale. One way to help people cope with the trauma is to lie/encourage cognitive dissonance. The other is to give them positive actions/solutions that engage other parts of their psyches.

          Human psychology is entirely malleable and shaped by habit and environment – not ‘designed’.

          As for ‘cognitive dissonance’, sorry, but that’s just fancy talk that permits rank fucking hypocrisy in my book.

          As for the best/more effective sort of encouragement, well that depends on a whole pile of variables, but sure, find and develop positive narratives wherever possible.

          And Cuba after the collapse of the USSR is a pretty good example of rapid adaptation.

          • weka 2.1.3.1.1

            “I don’t think that I was really disagreeing with martymars the other day. Not substantially anyway. Regardless.”

            I wasn’t talking about the other day, I was referring to the false dichotomy appearing this thread between political action and community powerdown action (or however we want to name it).

            “Human psychology is entirely malleable and shaped by habit and environment – not ‘designed’.”

            That’s semantics. Yes, human psyches are malleable, but they’re also hardwired around a whole bunch of survival issues that are hundreds of thousands of years old (at least). Fight or flight/freeze is a real phenomenom. As is what happens to physiology when you put people under chronic stress.

            There’s a lot of very interesting work being done on brain malleability and rewiring, but it’s pretty clear that rewiring under chronic or excessive stress is actually quite hard, and some of it is completely outside of human control (hence people who end up with PTSD). This is the core of the work on trauma and recovery. That work is decades old now.

            “As for ‘cognitive dissonance’, sorry, but that’s just fancy talk that permits rank fucking hypocrisy in my book.”

            Cognitive dissonance denial, interesting. It’s a pretty well understood phenomenom, and people have been working with it in terms of CC, including some who have been doing it longer than you have been writing about CC. Joanna Macy is the most obvious example of someone who’s been helping people deal emotionally with things that are too big to deal with. She started her work on despair in the face of nuclear meltdown.

            What do you mean by rank hypocricy?

            “As for the best/more effective sort of encouragement, well that depends on a whole pile of variables, but sure, find and develop positive narratives wherever possible.”

            It’s not just about the narratives, although I agree that is important. It’s about the actions and presenting people with solutions not just problems. I’m speaking from the experience of people who have been helping people make the changes you are saying you want to have happen.

            “And Cuba after the collapse of the USSR is a pretty good example of rapid adaptation.”

            Cool, thanks for using an example that supports my point. Cuba were forced into Peak Oil. They didn’t convince their population to go there voluntarily, which is what we are talking about here.

            Cubans were arguably better prepared for peak oil than many wealthier countries. They’d already been through the revolution decades earlier and many people had already had time to adapt under stress, including learning those skills. Compare this to somewhere like NZ, where we haven’t had anything comparable since WW2, which means that most people alive don’t have those skills from experiencing something that affected the whole country (Māori would be the exception perhaps, because dealing with colonisation has been pretty continuous).

            We can look at a more limited, recent example in NZ. One of the big unspoken catastrophes from Chch is the rate of PTSD and related coping mechanisms. This is not just about the actual quakes, it’s about putting people into situations where they can’t cope and don’t have support over time.

            In any population you are going to have people that cope well. They’ve either got this naturally, or they’ve trained themselves, or they’ve been forced to adapt and had the resources to so well. For others it’s the opposite, they’re naturally not stress copers, they don’t have the opportunities to retrain themselves, and/or when they’re forced to adapt they either collapse or adapt in ways that enable survival but not doing well. Most people sit somewhere in between. People’s responses to stress are real and need to be taken into account.

            CC is stressful. It’s really stressful. It’s different than an acute emergency like an earthquake, but for people who haven’t developped coping mechanisms, it’s still hard to cope. They have to adapt and that doesn’t happen at the click of their (or someone else’s) fingers.

            Most people I know that are aware of how bad CC is have had to go through a process of accommodating that psychologically. Telling people they’re being rank hypocrites when they start talking about how CC affects their psyche is the equivalent of telling a traumatised person to just pull themselves together. Not only is it ignorant of reality, it generally doesn’t work.

            • marty mars 2.1.3.1.1.1

              That is an awesome comment weka – the work on dealing with issues too big to be dealt with is extremely valuable and I’m going to read up about it. Dealing psychologically with the reality of CC is amazingly difficult – and I think we need to consider it like the grief cycle (maybe it is the actual grief cycle) in that we jump steps, we go backwards or regress sometimes. Whatever we do we will each have to work through this and comments like your really help – thanks again.

              • weka

                thanks marty, I was thinking it was falling on deaf ears. Grief, yes, and a good point about the cycle not being straighforward. I’d love to know what you end up reading and thinking.

                • Maui

                  Yeah, I can liken it to grief. Over the last few months the more I’ve read and watch I’ve got quite down about it, and questioned could this actually be true? No it can’t be.. maybe it is, the world I’m living in has caused this, and noone is acknowledging it? wtf, etc. There is A LOT! to process there… There’s also the trouble of coming to terms with this on your own which is quite difficult. And more people will realise this and its likely they won’t have the support there as climate change is sort of like a taboo subject to talk about seriously with most ordinary people.

    • weka 2.2

      marty,

      what to do – well i posted a jmg article about “downshifting our technological infrastructure to roughly 1950 – you said “My first reaction is to go in the opposite(?) direction.”
      http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-30012015/#comment-959689
      The reality is that no country addicted to the gods of progress is going to even entertain going back – even if it makes sense and is practically the only thing a country could do.

      I’m trying to think of examples where whole nations have reversed a fundamental position that was previously thought impossible. The end of the apartheid regime in South Africa? End of British rule in India? Maybe we should make a list of examples. My point being that we shouldn’t give up hope in this particular part of the puzzle.

      I also believe that we can get the powerdown conversation into the mainstream more and that this will have an effect (we’re on a tipping point after all).

      what to do – we need a movement dedicated to revitalising the old skills, the old ways of doing things based upon our lives today – I am interested in trying to build this, if you (whoever reads this) are email me.

      Transitions Towns, permaculture, and as you know many Māori still hold much knowledge. There are distinct reasons why the Transition Towns movement hasn’t gained more traction than it has (it’s stuck in the influencing culture stage, but is still short of revolution). One of them is that the TT crowd as largely apolitical, some in the sense of they see their time better spent in the garden so to speak, and some in the sense of believing that modern politics is defunct and therefore useless and to not be supported in anyway. I believe we will make much more headway when the TT people and the political radicals connect up and start working together.

      • Colonial Rawshark 2.2.1

        I’m trying to think of examples where whole nations have reversed a fundamental position that was previously thought impossible. The end of the apartheid regime in South Africa? End of British rule in India?

        Sure there have been such instances. War time is when whole populations have willingly accepted that they have to make do with less income and less material goods.

        During such times the 0.1% continue to do fabulously well, I would note.

        • weka 2.2.1.1

          The war one is interesting, and useful in terms of the powerdown, but a bit different I think. People will put up with things for a limited period of time. I’m talking about radical change that is permanent.

          • Colonial Rawshark 2.2.1.1.1

            Given that there is no such thing as permanent change what we need is a successful 15-20 year transition to a low carbon economy. Basically a war economy is one way of doing it, where we build public and community infrastructure instead of munitions and tanks.

            Unfortunately, war is the one thing which gifts governments with the political capital to make such sweeping and radical alterations to the economy.

            • weka 2.2.1.1.1.1

              Can you see the difference between a war that last 5 years and something like the fall of the Berlin Wall or the end of apartheid? I think you might be missing the point I was making to marty.

    • Pat O'Dea 2.3

      “There is no political will to make the changes that could mitigate our ability to respond to the climate changes occurring.”
      MARTY MARS

      The strategy that I have come up with to overcome this lack of political will and that myself and others have been working on for the last two years, is a campaign to make New Zealand The World’s First Newcoal Free Country.

      A play of course, on the words Nuclear Free Country.

      If such a policy could be achieved it would be world news, possibly having a galvanising affect nationally and internationally to generate that missing political will. (Just as we did with our campaign to isolate apartheid South Africa)

      Already the Green Party and the Mana Party have made No New Coal Mines their official policy, hopefully our campaigning will see the Labour Party adopting the same position.

      After all, calling for No New Coal Mines is not an extreme position, and nowhere near what the science actually demands, which is to start winding down existing coal mines.

      It is those in favour of opening New Coal mines who hold the extreme position.

      While not being near enough, in the current political atmosphere No New Coalmines is a reasonable and achievable objective, in fact it is those who support more new coal mines who are becoming seen as the unreasonable nutters. Political parties that currently support new coal projects, (National and Labour) are increasingly inhabiting the lunatic fringe.

      But Auckland Coal Action the group I belong to, are not waiting on the politicians to act, and taking our cue from the anti nuclear movement and are implementing this policy on the ground.

      Already we have had some success, stopping Glencoal (a Fonterra subsidiary) from developing a New Coal mine project at Mangatangi, just South of Auckland. The first victory of this type that I am aware of.

      On the 7th of February ACA will be holding our AGM where we will decide our next campaign against New Coal Mines.
      Launching a new campaign around Solid Energy’s proposed reopening of the old Kopako 1 open cast mine at Maramarua, is one of the things we will be discussing and deciding on. Details, HERE

      All those who have an interest in action against climate change are welcome to attend.

      But why coal you may ask?

      For a number of reasons:

      James Hansen formerly of NASA has identified coal as the fossil fuel that is the most dangerous. Burning 1 ton of coal releases almost 3 tons of atmospheric CO2. “If we can’t stop coal it is all over for the climate”, says Hansen

      On a global scale coal is the single biggest (non feedback) cause of man made climate change and the most dangerous.

      Paradoxically coal forms a very small part of New Zealand’s economy and so should prove relatively easy to move away from. If New Zealand can’t do it how could we expect any other country too.

      In contrast, our closest geographical and cultural neighbor Australia is the world’s biggest coal exporter. A ban on new coal mines in this country will send powerful political ripples across the Tasman. Already 6 out of 10 Australians polled want their government to do more on climate change. And no wonder, Australia is one of the worst affected countries by climate change in the world.

      Already the Abbott government are in trouble over their support for new coal mines.

      Coal is the future, says Abbott

      Nothing else we could do here, would have a greater positive effect than to give a lead that may lead to a change in Australia coal policy.

      Disclosure: Pat O’Dea is the Mana spokesperson for climate change issues and a member of Auckland Coal Action
      https://aucklandcoalaction.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/aca-t-shirt-name.jpg

      • marty mars 2.3.1

        Pat I think what you are doing is valuable to try and create the momentum to make the changes that need to happen – if the political will can be encapsulated behind a campaign that brings people along and stops new coal mines then that will create the ability to make the deep changes necessary.

        I’d also like to see it as part of a multi-pronged approach where personal and societal changes can be discussed and implemented.

        • Pat O'Dea 2.3.1.1

          We all know that even 2 degree rise above base line is bad. 3 degrees is catastrophic maybe even unsurvivable, once postive feedbacks kick in.

          As you have hinted Marty and the scientists say, only a mobilisation on a scale that the world mobilised to fight WWII would (possibly) be enough to avoid this scenario.

          With human beings perception is everything.

          The first nation that takes real world action against climate change, (and I don’t mean frittering around the edges with rebates and carbon credits and pricing schemes) But real action that legislates to cut emissions, and in effect goes onto a wartime footing against climate change, will change global perception that this is a real problem that we all must get behind.

          To get just one country, (this one) to take real world action to effectively ban all new coal mining is one way of reaching that step change level in global perception.

          It is actions towards that goal that we are mobilising around.

          If you can Marty get to our AGM on the 7th at 1pm in Mt Eden. See the link above.

    • Maui 2.4

      Hi Marty, I will email you, I think that’s a great idea to get back to the old ways of doing things. There is a lot of talk here of what we should or could do here in these threads, but if you care enough about it you will act, and there seems to be a few people sitting on their high horse, experts on the subject and just willing to sit back and commentate. I don’t see much action to be blatantly honest. It’s all well and good talking about it, but we have to move now if we are to try and address the problem.

  3. Macro 3

    Strip out the faith in technologies not yet developed and that may never be developed; use available, up to date, data; stick to parameters that give high degrees of certainty, and what the science tells us, pretty fucking bluntly, is that we’re heading for 4 degrees or 6 degrees and that a 2 degrees future is virtually impossible now.

    Yes! But if you try telling that to the “greybeards” who fill and dominate our legislative chambers – e.g. Inhofe et al. – they’ll never believe you. 🙁

  4. Sacha 4

    Why is the Standard publishing climate change denialism? The Tyndall kerfuffle has been well and truly debunked. There is no disagreement on the science except by those funded by the oil industry.

  5. i linked to an interesting new poll yesterday from america..

    ..it showed that 49% of registered republicans wd support politicians promising to do something about climate-change..

    ..and the figure was even higher for those who wd actively oppose a politician who denied climate-change is real..

    ..so once again..it isn’t the people who are the problem..(even among republicans..)

    ..it is the bought/owned politicians…again/still..

    • Colonial Rawshark 5.1

      ..it showed that 49% of registered republicans wd support politicians promising to do something about climate-change..

      Were those registered Republicans told that they would have to give up their SUVs and their V8s?

      Because if they were, that number would plummet.

      • phillip ure 5.1.1

        i wouldn’t be so cynical about that..

        ..i was surprised..as it showed deniers in a minority even amongst american republicans..

        ..and i was cheered by that..

        ..as it means change will happen soon..

        ..whether it will be enough/effective..

        ..is another story..

  6. weka 6

    David Holmgren, co-founder of permaculture and key transition player, came out at the end of 2013 with a call for crash on demand. Essentially he suggested that a small percentage of the middle classes withdrawing their investments would crash the global economy and force everyone into a powerdown and post-carbon societies.

    David’s argument is essentially that radical, but achievable, behaviour change from dependent consumers to responsible self-reliant producers (by some relatively small minority of the global middle class) has a chance of stopping the juggernaut of consumer capitalism from driving the world over the climate change cliff. It maybe a slim chance, but a better bet than current herculean efforts to get the elites to pull the right policy levers; whether by sweet promises of green tech profits or alternatively threats from mass movements shouting for less consumption.

    http://holmgren.com.au/crash-demand/

    I can’t see this happening yet (still too much denial). But I could see it happening if the 2C vs 4/6C thing gets into the mainstream and enough of the middle class wake up.

    People make out that the GP vote is so small, but from memory Holmgren’s scenario requires 10% of the population from wealthy countries to take action for the tipping point to come into play.

    I wouldn’t see this scenario as being sufficient on its own. The general labour/debt strike idea is very good too. The more actions the better.

    • Colonial Rawshark 6.1

      The middle classes want economic growth, higher incomes and the greater consumption that supports. They do NOT want to crash the economy.

      • adam 6.1.1

        But, Colonial Rawshark isn’t that the point of the post by Bill. Either by design, or wilful denial – the economy is going to crash. That a massive change in the environment in the range of 4-6 degrees is in essence, economic crash time. These temperatures mean more radical and disruptive weather patterns, higher and more sustained winds, and the regular occurrence of so called 1 on 100 year weather events. The military know this, why are the public so desperate to ignore it?

        We need to remind the middle class – that the desire for economic growth is fundamentally flawed. When growth, by it’s very nature, is killing the environment we have an economy in. Why do we keep repeating these suicidal acts?

        A debt strike – and a withdrawal of labour is one of many things we need. I’d say it is something that needed to happen yesterday. It’s fear, fear and fear which holds us back. Fear is the killer of many things – it may just be what ends us as a species.

        • weka 6.1.1.1

          We have this small window of opportunity to prevent the worse case scenarios. So bringing the crash on increases our chances of that.

          CV’s categorisation of the middle classes while understandable is not helpful. It’s lazy, superficial labelling, that renders the parts of the middle classes that might be able to change invisible. Unless we believe that middle class change is unnecessary, in which case have at it.

          • adam 6.1.1.1.1

            I don’t hold onto much hope for the middle class Weka. I really don’t, they have been in shell shock for a while and seem to me to be wilfully ignorant. I know. I know a whole class should not be stained with the same brush – but look at the last election – was it not the middle class – or the middle class presumptive – who decided to put this lot into power?

            It does seem to me, that they can’t lead a wet teabag, they are the most fearful and the most propagandised group in our society. They buy fully into liberalism, and liberalism is the enemy. Liberalism as an economic system, is the reason we are in this mess. And before some RWNJ jumps in, I do mean liberalism in all it’s guises – that includes the Marxist-Leninist economies of the old Warsaw pack and the other communist systems in Asia. Also the failure of social democracies in the west. Liberalism is a failed economic system. Neo-Liberalism just exasperates the problems.

      • weka 6.1.2

        “The middle classes want economic growth, higher incomes and the greater consumption that supports. They do NOT want to crash the economy.”

        I’m assuming you didn’t bother to read the link, nor actually consider what I said (did you honestly read what I wrote, because it’s hard to fathom your response if you did).

        The various transition movements are full of the middle classes. I even pointed out the GP vote, which you keep telling me is also full of the middle class.

        I also made the argument for why the middle classes won’t do it now but might in the future.

        There’s also the argument to be made that the middle classes have both more responsibility and more capacity to lead this, because they’ve got more resilience built into their lives than many working class, precariats or under class.

        Honest to god, it’s this kind of negative thinking, narrow framing, and failure to engage with each others’ ideas that is our doom. How many dismissals and knock downs are there going to be in this thread?

        • Colonial Rawshark 6.1.2.1

          Well, I don’t see any middle class Green voters, or reps from any other political party, telling their friends that our incomes and material standard of living have to drop.

          • weka 6.1.2.1.1

            I on the other hand do. eg I know people that have made significant changes in their lives to downsize, and we have conversations about these things. There’s alot of discussion online. I guess we move in different circles. But that’s beside the point, which is that this is not going to happen now, but is a possibility as more people begin to wake up and we should be prepared for that and give those people a way forward.

            • Paul 6.1.2.1.1.1

              Agreed.
              Have you read Derrick Jensen’s Endgame?

              Here’s a quote from it, relevant to our discussion.

              ‘“To reverse the effects of civilization would destroy the dreams of a lot of people. There’s no way around it. We can talk all we want about sustainability, but there’s a sense in which it doesn’t matter that these people’s dreams are based on, embedded in, intertwined with, and formed by an inherently destructive economic and social system. Their dreams are still their dreams. What right do I — or does anyone else — have to destroy them.
              At the same time, what right do they have to destroy the world?”

              ― Derrick Jensen, Endgame, Vol. 1: The Problem of Civilization

              • weka

                Thanks Paul. I haven’t read Endgame, but have read A Language Older Than Words, which was very influential on me. Have also listened to a bit of Jensen’s audio in the past and used to lurk on the forum.

                I’m cooking dinner and thinking through how to reply to you below about what is the right question. But these are good,

                Their dreams are still their dreams. What right do I — or does anyone else — have to destroy them.

                At the same time, what right do they have to destroy the world?”

                And I think there is a crux here in this thread. This is why I think cognitive dissonance is so important to address. How are we going to get people to take this seriously when we are talking about destroying their dreams?

                And, at the same time (and this is closer to what I meant about the right question), how do we stop destroying the world we are part of and upon which our very survival, but also our hopes and dreams (our soul), are dependent?

                • greywarshark

                  We need to put out new dreams, some nostalgia from the past, mixed in with practical technology that retains people control and respect for the human ability, strength and frailties.

                  Perhaps, ideas again, there needs to be a Workable Future Scenario contest with some money and equipment prizes. Also a moving story that travels around New Zealand, and is invited to towns interested in participating, where people write little ideas credited to themselves as individuals, and then get together and put up to 400 words into the main theme, And if each town could include one idea that would be of practical help and give short examples or foreseen methods, there would be a mass of creative thought go into it.

                  It would be on paper, usually set up in the library if that was central, and people would prepare their pieces and scrutinise each others – no more than 200 wordsand also would be online – the main work would end up as a ‘magnum opus’ when it was finished and be available on line, to be downloaded, and be recorded at Te Papa which I assume would want this important piece of history. The individual pieces would be sorted as the writer chose, under set headings, and be available on line.

                  Then talk about it, follow up ideas, keep track of who was trying what and report on pilots. And in two years do it again. There is that thing about people owning projects, they need to have input and see that others round them think they are important. Having our heads beaten in with stuff about what we should do won’t evoke the group mentality, the community awareness that is needed. There was a huge effort put in by a group who worked on educating about the Waitangi Treaty and they were dedicated and achieved much. Now we have something of the sword of Damocles hanging over our heads, don’t know the equivalent Maori example. So even more important to stir and act.

                  • Some great ideas there grey.

                    I am connected* to happyzine – a positive online solutions focused website. In 2010 we created Dreams to Reality – where people put there ideas in and the chosen project received support, mentoring and encouragement – the entry that was chosen was based around creating rooftop vege gardens in Auckland – it was implemented.

                    http://happyzine.co.nz/category/dreamtoreality-project-planet/

                    The point of that example is that it can be done, it really can be – if we pull the ideas together and get people thinking of solutions. I’m thinking locally rather than trying to get countries to change. Keep the ideas coming – we need them.

                    * I am the husband of the founder 🙂

                  • weka

                    You’re a very good ideas person grey. Have you connected with the sustainability, Transition Town type people in your area?

                    Did you see my reply to you the other in that other thread on powerdown?

          • Sacha 6.1.2.1.2

            You have just seen one Green co-leader take a big paycut to spend more time at home. Commitment takes many forms.

            • Colonial Rawshark 6.1.2.1.2.1

              I presume he’s paid off the mortgage, got plenty saved up, has a partner who works and earns a solid income. Sounds like he’s living the dream to me.

      • Paul 6.1.3

        Have you read Derrick Jensen’s ‘Endgame.?

        Here’s a quote from it.

        “In order to maintain our way of living, we must tell lies to each other, and especially to ourselves.”
        ― Derrick Jensen, Endgame, Vol. 1: The Problem of Civilization

    • melliodora 6.2

      If you are living near Melbourne, there is a live debate on this as part of SLF this month. The great debate to discuss “to collapse or not to collapse”. The panel includes David Holmgren himself along with George Monbiot and Nicole Foss.
      https://www.facebook.com/SustainableLivingFestival

  7. It’s too late to worry about winning over the 1% or the middle class to prevent ecological collapse as their stake in capitalism continues over our dead bodies.

    2 degrees has come and gone and abrupt climate collapse is now a certainty.
    http://guymcpherson.com/2014/01/climate-change-summary-and-update/

    The fight is over what to do about it.

    Capitalism is the problem so the end of capitalism is the solution.

    We can chose resignation, fiddling, or revolution.

    Revolution may not be enough to stop the feedback loops making us extinct, but at least we will give it a go and stop the useless chatter.

    I think I posted this on TS some time back.
    http://redrave.blogspot.co.nz/2009/12/climate-change-dire-emergency.html

    • Paul 7.1

      Read Derrick Jensen’s Endgame.
      Compulsory reading on the subject of catastrophic climate change.

      Some quotes from it.

      ‘Surely by now there can be few here who still believe the purpose of government is to protect us from the destructive activities of corporations. At last most of us must understand that the opposite is true: that the primary purpose of government is to protect those who run the economy from the outrage of injured citizens.’

      ‘In order to maintain our way of living, we must tell lies to each other, and especially to ourselves.’

      “Premise Eight: The needs of the natural world are more important than the needs of the economic system.”

    • weka 7.2

      “Revolution may not be enough to stop the feedback loops making us extinct, but at least we will give it a go and stop the useless chatter.”

      But it might be enough, and my contention is that revolutionary change will only happen in time if we do more than scare people.

      • Paul 7.2.1

        Do what then?
        Ask the 1% nicely?

        • weka 7.2.1.1

          I tend to think pinning hopes on the 1% is a waste of time, but I do think things like divestment from carbon are important, both for practical reasons and for the messages it sends to people. I guess I count on those things as bonuses to the real stuff.

          Other than that, I think many of the things being discussed in this thread. Raise people’s awareness of both the 2C vs 4/6C issue that Bill has outlined. Raise awareness of the powerdown or however you want to frame. Present people with proactive solutions, things they can do themselves (in other words make connections between theory and practice).

          That might all sound woolly in the face of calls for revolution, but I think we are at a tipping point. Consider how much has changed around acceptance of CC in the past 5 years. That’s huge. We need to keep encouraging people to keep thinking about this and figuring out how to change.

          I’m also a fan of the preparation crowd (Transition Towns etc). Lots to do there, and here’s the thing. The things we can do to prepare for collapse are exactly the things that mitigate CC. They’re also the things we need to be doing anyway for a whole bunch of sustainability reasons (peak soil, pollution, overpopulation etc).

    • adam 7.3

      But we don’t need the revolutions of old.

      We need to stop paying our debt and we need to withdraw our labour.

      We have a non-violent solution, a non-violent revolution.

      • Paul 7.3.1

        We can learn from the Greeks.

      • weka 7.3.2

        nice and succint adam. Ideas on how to get there?

        • Paul 7.3.2.1

          And learn from Scotland.

        • adam 7.3.2.2

          Please Mr Bill. Put a few idea up for Weka.

          • weka 7.3.2.2.1

            What?

            • Colonial Rawshark 7.3.2.2.1.1

              adam already described it. Stop paying your debts and your taxes, your rent or your mortgage, withdraw your labour from the formal economy, give no money whatsoever to the corporate machine.

              Problem is, the alternative/parallel systems of living and economics do not yet exist for people to ‘opt out’ in this way and live any kind of dignified life without strife and troubles.

              • weka

                Yes, I understand that. What I am asking is how we get people to do that. Hence my question wasn’t “what do we need to do?”, it was “how do we get there?”.

                (also noting the use of ‘your’ in that first paragraph. Obviously me doing those things is going to be bugger all use. We need to do them).

                “Problem is, the alternative/parallel systems of living and economics do not yet exist for people to ‘opt out’ in this way and live any kind of dignified life without strife and troubles.”

                Plenty of people in NZ doing the work on those things already (some of them are even middle class).

                So, we know what needs to be done. We know two of the things preventing them from being done (fear, lack of new structures). What next?

                • Colonial Rawshark

                  If you want to convince large numbers of Kiwis, and I mean hundreds of thousands, you’re going to have to show them clear immediate and short term advantages for themselves, of taking the option up.

                  (also noting the use of ‘your’ in that first paragraph. Obviously me doing those things is going to be bugger all use. We need to do them).

                  No, “WE” have no requirement to do anything. That’s the problem.

                  • weka

                    How do individuals have a requirement to do anything?

                    “If you want to convince large numbers of Kiwis, and I mean hundreds of thousands, you’re going to have to show them clear immediate and short term advantages for themselves, of taking the option up”

                    Yes, and that’s more of what we need to do, not how we’re going to do it. Or how you’re going to do it. See what I’m getting at?

                    • Colonial Rawshark

                      I’m working with a team of people to make a difference down here in Dunedin. What we do as a group will have some wider flow on effects of course. But we have no intentions to take that on as a responsibility or a goal on our shoulders.

                    • weka

                      That’s true for me too.

                      So what we are really doing here is talking theory and not talking specifics. Is there a reason you won’t talk specifics? I don’t mean taking on the responsibility, I mean talking about how these things could happen? Is it too risky?

                      If we won’t talk about this who will?

                    • Colonial Rawshark

                      General theory, concepts, types of projects and handy hints are always informative to talk about of course.

                      Specifics relate to the environment, people, skills, resources and opportunities that are on hand. None of this is necessarily confidential but I am not any kind of nominated spokesperson so don’t go into those details.

                    • weka

                      Yes, I agree. I wasn’t talking about the latter. But I think there is something between “we need a labour/debt strike” and that, and I’m feeling frustration that on ts we can’t take this to the next level.

              • Paul

                Wherever possible do not go into debt.
                The money system is built on it.

        • adam 7.3.2.3

          Please Mr Bill. Put a few ideas up for Weka.

          • dave brown 7.3.2.3.1

            Its delusional to think that we can overthrow capitalism peacefully.
            That way we hand the capitalists the victory and ourselves certain extinction.
            The people of Syria began their revolution with peaceful marches. They were attacked, tortured, murdered and starved. One of the effects of climate change, drought, was a factor in their revolution.
            The Palestinians have had two intifadas and there will be more.
            People fight back without fear when their existence is at stake.
            Climate change threatens our existence.
            That surely demands a strong resistance.
            When the ruling class unleashes its cops, mercenaries, fascist gangs, military coups etc on the people, only the armed people can defeat such attacks.
            There is no such thing as a peaceful revolution because the counter-revolution is armed and ruthless.

            • Colonial Rawshark 7.3.2.3.1.1

              Syria is a bad example as the west has been deliberately starving the Syrian economy for many years and more recently allowing a flood of foreign fighters and weapons in.

              That has done more harm to the Syrian people in the last 3 years than Assad and his father had in the last 30.

              • CV you do realise that this could be a description of most third world countries ruled by dictators as clients of imperialism?
                The Syrian revolution is a genuine national democratic revolution and forced to fight on three fronts against enemies which ultimately serve the the economic interests of the West in suppressing the popular Arab revolution.
                I did also use the case of Palestine which is occupied by a more obvious stooge of the US.
                The point is that when the Western powers are driven to such extreme measures to retain control it is because the populations will no longer tolerate such oppression and rise up.
                To succeed they are forced to arm themselves.
                It will also be the fate of NZ should it suffer a decline into the ‘third world’ and the Key bonapartist regime move towards a fascist state to suppress a popular resistance.
                My point is that armed resistance is ultimately the only recourse of the masses against imperialism, and that NZ is no exception.
                In the US this is celebrated every year as ‘The American Revolution’.
                Today all other national liberation revolutions are labelled ‘terror’.

                • Colonial Rawshark

                  The Syrian revolution is a genuine national democratic revolution and forced to fight on three fronts against enemies which ultimately serve the the economic interests of the West

                  IMO there’s very little “genuine” or “democratic” about an influx of many thousands of foreign fighters armed and financed by foreigners.

                  Many of these fighters want to see Assad’s secular dictatorship gone and replaced by a religious dictatorship via a civil war which has now killed well over a hundred thousands civilians and displaced a million more.

                  • You are wrong.
                    I have followed this revolution from the beginning.
                    The influx of foreign fighters is not part of the revolution.
                    It is a scandalous affront to the Syrian martyrs in this revolution that you attribute their revolutionary agency to some external force.
                    Check out the many articles that testify to a popular non-sectarian revolution holding out against Assad’s barrel bombs, Jabhat Al Nusra, and ISIL etc., in this blog.
                    https://syriafreedomforever.wordpress.com/
                    Scroll down to whichever language you are most comfortable with.
                    Especially look at Aleppo and Kafranbel.
                    A good review article
                    https://syriafreedomforever.wordpress.com/2014/12/16/the-revolutionary-process-caught-in-the-grip-of-reactionary-forces/

                    • Colonial Rawshark

                      A “scandalous affront”???

                      Tell me mate, if not from foreign backers – and I am pointing at Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Turkey, Jordan as well as France, UK and USA – where have the Syrian fighters gotten their soldiers, armaments, munitions and funding from such that Assad only controls half the land area of Syria now?

                      There is nothing “democratic” or noble about this “revolution” it has been an utter bloodbath for the Syrian people including 9 MILLION refugees.

                      And all the US cares about is that Russian, Iranian and Hezbollah influence over the country is ended, and for that to happen Assad has to be gone.

                  • You didn’t go to the blog link I posted did you?
                    You obviously take you cue from the New York Times and other source that think that the US is manipulating the Syrian people like puppets.
                    Go back over the 4 years of this war and find out when the jihadists came on the scene.
                    The blog I cited covers most of that period.
                    You will find for all you bluster than this revolution began as peaceful protests in the streets that then spread to most parts of Syria.
                    These protests were met with brutal force and this is where most the the deaths you mention arise. Only in response to this repression did the Free Syrian Army emerge.
                    The fact that this non-sectarian popular uprising was successful created a problem for the US and for Russia who both have a stake in preventing the Arab revolution from following the example of the Syrian armed revolution.
                    The imperialists know that there main enemy is not this or that jihadist sect, but the armed Arab people, especially the uniting of the struggles in MENA behind the Palestinian struggle.
                    So the US blocked the source of manpads going to the popular forces for most of this time until it could find some element of the Free Syrian Army it could trust to keep a lid on the revolution.
                    It hoped to source a new regime that could replace Assad from its ranks.
                    Assad meanwhile was losing the war so resorted to poison gas and now barrel bombs.
                    But still the resistance exists and if you bothered to check the blog, you would see that it fights on three fronts against Assad, Al Nusra as well as the IS.
                    To claim that this popular revolution does not exist and that the war in Syria is no more than between puppets funded by various external powers ultimately aligned to the US and Russia/China, is to promote a modern version of Orientalism which denies non-Europeans any revolutionary agency.
                    You need to think about that.
                    Meanwhile don’t call me ‘mate’.

                    • Colonial Rawshark

                      So what’s your point?

                      My point is that the armed struggle in Syria has cost approx 200,000 civilian lives and 9M displaced.

                      The majority of Syria is going to be a failed state with a rump held by Assad around Damascus and the southern end of the country.

                      The rest of it is going to be run by ISIL/ISIS.

                      There will be no democracy, and the lot of the Syrian people is today, and for the foreseeable future, far worse than it was 5 or 6 years ago.

                      You didn’t go to the blog link I posted did you?

                      To be honest, after going through for a couple of minutes all it showed me is that armed revolution does nothing except destroy the lives of millions. In exchange for what – a semblance of temporary freedom in some small areas of Syria. The only thing which hasn’t changed is poverty and unemployment.

                      But still the resistance exists and if you bothered to check the blog, you would see that it fights on three fronts against Assad, Al Nusra as well as the IS.

                      And where does this ‘popular resistance’ get its funding from? Its munitions? If not from foreigners.

                    • Colonial Rawshark

                      These protests were met with brutal force and this is where most the the deaths you mention arise. Only in response to this repression did the Free Syrian Army emerge.

                      The chart on wikipedia shows that the death toll in Syria started rocketing up around week 65 of the civil war, and has stayed on a steep slope upwards ever since. In the first year, casualties were relatively low.

                      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Syrian_Civil_War

                    • The point is the armed insurrection is necessary to overthrow the rotten capitalist system and that this is now widely accepted in the countries oppressed by imperialism.
                      I think you have to credit the Syrian people with the right to fight a just war at whatever the cost. The right to fight for life is a basic human right.
                      How do you think Syrians, Palestinians, Libyans, Egyptians etc are going to get rid of dictators and win their democratic rights if not by armed struggle?
                      In every struggle of this sort the price is many martyrs.
                      Democracy can never be won by begging dictators to stand down, they just torture and kill.
                      I would say Israel is a failed state because it exists on the basis of armed occupation at the expense of the democratic national rights of Palestinians.
                      Do you accept the right of Palestinians to armed revolution?
                      There is no inevitability of Syria being a ‘failed state’ in your sense.
                      Syria has the chance to become a free, democratic, non-sectarian state provided those fighting for democracy are armed with heavy weapons.
                      Most people supported the YPG fight to defend Kobane from the IS especially the women’s militias.
                      Uniting the democratic Syrian, Palestinian, Kurdish and Iraqi forces again sectarians and jihadists, backed by workers in the imperialist countries to stop the ‘war on terror’ is the only solution.
                      The point about revolution is that it overturns the failed system that is threatening the existence of humanity.
                      Capitalism has proven that it will not allow even an Occupy movement on the streets without armed repression.
                      How do you think the overthrow of capitalism to prevent economic and ecological destruction can be done without armed insurrection?

  8. Correction 2 C has not come and gone but is “locked in”.
    So it will come and we will be gone.

  9. Richard Christie 9

    2 deg has always been a feel good, delusional limit.

    Why? – because it is invariably attached to a date and not given as an limit beyond which we should strive not to venture. Perhaps cast in these terms because those that propose it assume any longer term thinking is beyond us.

    Phrases such as “keeping change within 2deg by next century” are not the same as “ensuring change remains below 2 deg, this century, the next and beyond”.

  10. CnrJoe 10

    our furious fiddling is throwing off sparks and our rome burns down around our ears
    we’re done
    all this suffering and ecstasy signifying
    nothing
    how do ts readers and writers who are parents cope with the facts? as an uncle i could do with some tips
    h/tip phil ure – this is the end of ‘capital’ism for me starting now

    • marty mars 10.1

      As a person with one son and another due in days I look for the good – and it is there. It may be considered simplistic but in my mind it is the best option – in the good we find hope, we find connection and we find peace and acceptance.

      • greywarshark 10.1.1

        @ marty mars
        All the best. Hope all goes well with good timing, and let us know results.

  11. Colonial Rawshark 11

    Why are the super rich preparing bug out locations with getaway cars, air strips and space age security?

    Seems like they fear what is coming.

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-01-31/what-do-they-know-why-are-so-many-super-wealthy-preparing-bug-out-locations

  12. Paul 12

    The Mariner’s Rule from the Archdruid Report.

    http://thearchdruidreport.blogspot.com/2015/01/the-mariners-rule.html

    ‘One of the things my readers ask me most often, in response to this blog’s exploration of the ongoing decline and impending fall of modern industrial civilization, is what I suggest people ought to do about it all. It’s a valid question, and it deserves a serious answer.

    Now of course not everyone who asks the question is interested in the answers I have to offer. A great many people, for example, are only interested in answers that will allow them to keep on enjoying the absurd extravagance that passed, not too long ago, for an ordinary lifestyle among the industrial world’s privileged classes, and is becoming just a little bit less ordinary with every year that slips by. To such people I have nothing to say. Those lifestyles were only possible because the world’s industrial nations burnt through half a billion years of stored sunlight in a few short centuries, and gave most of the benefits of that orgy of consumption to a relatively small fraction of their population; now that easily accessible reserves of fossil fuels are running short, the party’s over.’

    • weka 12.1

      This is why I don’t read the Archdruid much anymore, but am grateful to those that do (he needs to do a tl;dr). I skimmed through to find what he though we could do, as opposed to what we can’t do. Don’t think I found it, apart from getting out of debt, paying attention to climate shifts, and understanding that collapse comes in waves. Those are all strategies for personal and family survival. I think it’s the wrong question.

      • Paul 12.1.1

        What is the right question?

      • Colonial Rawshark 12.1.2

        I think you over-estimate the revolutionary potential of the middle classes, to paraphrase Marx.

        Regarding John Michael Greer, he is writing from a mostly USA based perspective. Over there, their democracy is long gone. There is no point trying to get change through the mechanisms of the Federal Government or via the major political parties. As Chris Hedges says – you are wasting your time pouring your money and energy into a dead, unresponsive political system.

        Your options therefore are to go off-grid – like JMG is doing – or participate in non-violent resistance – like Hedges and Jensen are doing.

        In NZ, our politics is still somewhat responsive to the voice of the people. So we are not in quite the dire straits that they are over there.

        • Paul 12.1.2.1

          Always enjoy your perceptive comments.
          We have totally lost an independent media here in NZ and this may make it easier for us to become more like the corporately controlled state the US has become.

  13. philj 13

    Calling Mathew Hoots, where is your family’s hide away?

  14. Colonial Rawshark 14

    3.5 deg C to 5.0 deg C warming by 2100 the most likely range: Newsweek Dec 16, 2014

    Post Lima discussions, it seems to me that the MSM is putting it out there even if some scientists aren’t.

    http://www.newsweek.com/study-confirms-lima-agreement-puts-us-past-2-degrees-warming-benchmark-292535

    • marty mars 14.1

      I think the big issue around this is that that degree of warming is unknown and perhaps unknowable for people, in that they think, Oh well we will be able to grow bananas in Bluff or yeah more summers like the one we are having. And in some ways they are correct – 2100 may as well be 4635 for most people – they’ll be dead anyway and sure the descendants will be there but they will adapt – that’s what smart monkeys do. So any impetus for action TODAY is pushed out, pretend-forgotten and slapped down.

      • Colonial Rawshark 14.1.1

        I do wonder why it is so difficult for “grown ups” to think ahead to 2100. If you have a child this year, then it is their children who will have to deal with climate change in 2100. Surely it’s not that far away?

  15. Colonial Rawshark 15

    PWC: World is on track for 4 deg C warming – The Guardian Sept 2014

    If even the corporate consulting firms are saying it, that’s pretty much game over if we stick to the status quo.

    I’d suggest that it’s well out in the open that we are going to miss 2 deg C by a country mile. Annoyingly, I suspect that I’ll see the chaos of 2 deg C warming well within my lifetime, let alone by 2100.

    http://www.theguardian.com/environment/southern-crossroads/2014/sep/09/new-york-climate-summit-two-degrees-warming-policy-disaster

    • Paul 15.1

      4 degrees will mean the collapse of ‘civilisation’

      • Richard McGrath 15.1.1

        If that ever happened humans would adapt, and that would probably prove cheaper then trying to alter the climate by frantically lowering our standard of living.

  16. Johnm 16

    Hi Everyone 🙂

    Did any of you see the interview by Paul Henry of Guy Mcpherson some months ago? basically these rises in temps will destroy our food production and human habitat generally leading to human extinction. As I’m 66 and facing near term human extinction anyway it doesn’t worry me. Anyway that’s the gist: I hope he’s wrong! But, McPherson is a sober non nut case person so I fear he may be correct.
    http://guymcpherson.com/2014/01/climate-change-summary-and-update/

  17. Richard McGrath 17

    Examples abound of alarmist scaremongering, this is just one more.

    For instance:

    March 2000, Dr David Viner, scientist at the (now infamous) climate research unit at University of East Anglia: “in a few years, snowfall will become a rare and exciting event… children just aren’t going to know what snow is.”

    13 December 2008, Albert Gore: ” The entire north polar ice cap will be gone within 5 years.”

    4 August 2008, Ted Scambos (scientist from Ice & Snow Data Centre): “There’s a group that makes a strong case that in 2012 or 2013 we’ll have an ice-free [Arctic summer]…”

    And so on, and so forth.

    The alarmists really are becoming more and more shrill, it’s getting embarrassing listening to what amounts to desperate pleading for more handouts.

    • mickysavage 17.1

      Gee three wrong comments, and thousands of correct predictions are wrong …

      • Richard McGrath 17.1.1

        @MS, these are just 3 of many examples that are not just wrong, they are laughably wrong.

        • McFlock 17.1.1.1

          And yet the vast bulk of predictions have been pretty accurate, if not erring on the side of caution (aka “very unlaughably wrong”).
          But those are the peer-reviewed ones, not cherry-picked interview or presentation comments taken out of context.

    • Macro 17.2

      Alert! Ignoramus, and useful idiot to the Fossil Fuel Industry!
      But then lets not let facts get in the way.
      https://www.wmo.int/media/?q=content/warming-trend-continues-2014
      But then this twit obviously know better than every one else. Must be hard for him, being so infallible and so unerringly right all the time.

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  • Life at 20 kilometres an hour
    We are still in France, getting from A to B.Possibly for only another week, though; Switzerland and Germany are looming now. On we pedal, towards Budapest, at about 20 km per hour.What are are mostly doing is inhaling a country, loving its ways and its food. Rolling, talking, quietly thinking. ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    21 hours ago
  • Hipkins is still useless
    The big problem with the last Labour government was that they were chickenshits who did nothing with the absolute majority we had given them. They governed as if they were scared of their own shadows, afraid of making decisions lest it upset someone - usually someone who would never have ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    21 hours ago
  • Exercising with the IDF.
    This morning I did something I seldom do, I looked at the Twitter newsfeed. Normally I take the approach of something that I’m not sure is an American urban legend, or genuinely something kids do over there. The infamous bag of dog poo on the front porch, set it on ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    1 day ago
  • Helm Hammerhand Anime: First Pictures and an Old English ‘Hera’
    We have some news on the upcoming War of the Rohirrim anime. It will apparently be two and a half hours in length, with Peter Jackson as Executive Producer, and Helm’s daughter Hera will be the main character. Also, pictures: The bloke in the middle picture is Freca’s ...
    1 day ago
  • Farmers get free pass on climate AND get subsidies
    The cows will keep burping and farting and climate change will keep accelerating - but farmers can stop worrying about being included in the ETS. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: My six things to note in Aotearoa-NZ’s political economy around housing, climate and poverty on Wednesday, June 12 were:The ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    1 day ago
  • Six ideas to secure Te Huia’s Future
    This is a guest post by our friend Darren Davis. It originally appeared on his excellent blog, Adventures in Transitland, which features “musings about public transport and other cool stuff in Aotearoa/ New Zealand and around the globe.” With Te Huia now having funding secure through to 2026, now is ...
    Greater AucklandBy Darren Davis
    1 day ago
  • The methane waka sinks
    In some ways, there may be less than meets the eye to the Government announcement yesterday that the He Waka Eke Noa proposal for farmers to pay for greenhouse gas emissions has been scrapped. The spectre of farmers still having to pay at some point in the future remains. That, ...
    PolitikBy Richard Harman
    1 day ago
  • At a glance – Does positive feedback necessarily mean runaway warming?
    On February 14, 2023 we announced our Rebuttal Update Project. This included an ask for feedback about the added "At a glance" section in the updated basic rebuttal versions. This weekly blog post series highlights this new section of one of the updated basic rebuttal versions and serves as a ...
    2 days ago
  • Climate Change: Farmers get what they wanted – for now
    Since entering office, National has unravelled practically every climate policy, leaving us with no effective way of reducing emissions or meeting our emissions budgets beyond magical thinking around the ETS. And today they've announced another step: removing agriculture entirely. At present, following the complete failure of he waka eka noa, ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 days ago
  • Presumed Innocent?
    The blue billionaireDistraction no interactionOr movement outside these glazed over eyesThe new great divideFew fight the tide to be glorifiedBut will he be satisfied?Can we accept this without zoom?The elephant in the roomNot much happens in politics on a Monday. Bugger all in fact. Although yesterday Christopher Luxon found he ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    2 days ago
  • Gordon Campbell on our doomed love affair with oil and gas
    What if New Zealand threw a fossil fuel party, and nobody came? On the weekend, Resources Minister Shane Jones sent out the invitations and strung up the balloons, but will anyone really want to invest big time in resuming oil and gas exploration in our corner of the planet? Yes, ...
    WerewolfBy lyndon
    2 days ago
  • Building better housing insights
    This is a guest post by Meredith Dale, senior urban designer and strategist at The Urban Advisory. There’s a saying that goes something like: ‘what you measure is what you value’. An RNZ article last week claimed that Auckland was ‘hurting’ because of a more affordable supply of homes, particularly townhouses ...
    Greater AucklandBy Guest Post
    2 days ago
  • Putin would be proud of them
    A Prime Minister directs his public service to inquire into the actions of the opposition political party which is his harshest critic. Something from Orban's Hungary, or Putin's Russia? No, its happening right here in Aotearoa: Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has announced the Public Service Commission will launch an ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    3 days ago
  • Resources for debunking common solar and wind myths
    This is a repost from a Yale Climate Connections article by SueEllen Campbell published on June 3, 2024. The articles listed can help you tell fact from fiction when it comes to solar and wind energy. Some statements you hear about solar and wind energy are just plain false. ...
    3 days ago
  • Juggernaut
    Politics were going on all around us yesterday, and we barely noticed, rolling along canal paths, eating baguettes. It wasn’t until my mate got to the headlines last night that we learned there had been a dismayingly strong far right result in the EU elections and Macron had called a ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    3 days ago
  • Numbers Game.
    Respect Existence, Or Expect Resistance? There may well have been 50,000 pairs of feet “Marching For Nature” down Auckland’s Queen Street on Saturday afternoon, but the figure that impresses the Coalition Government is the 1,450,000 pairs of Auckland feet that were somewhere else.IN THE ERA OF DRONES and Artificial Intelligence, ...
    3 days ago
  • Media Link: AVFA on post-colonial blowback.
    Selwyn Manning and I discuss varieties of post colonial blowback and the implications its has for the rise of the Global South. Counties discussed include Palestine/Israel, France/New Caledonia, England/India, apartheid/post-apartheid South Africa and post-colonial New Zealand. It is a bit … Continue reading ...
    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    3 days ago
  • Policy by panic
    Back in March, Ombudsman Peter Boshier resigned when he hit the statutory retirement age of 72, leaving the country in the awkward (and legally questionable) position of having him continue as a temporay appointee. It apparently took the entire political system by surprise - as evinced by Labour's dick move ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    3 days ago
  • PSA: NZ's Richest Company, Zuru, Sucks
    Hi,Today the New Zealand press is breathlessly reporting that the owners of toy company Zuru are officially New Zealand’s wealthiest people: Mat and Nick Mowbray worth an estimated $20 billion between them.While the New Zealand press loses its shit celebrating this Kiwi success story, this is a Webworm reminder that ...
    David FarrierBy David Farrier
    3 days ago
  • Bernard's Dawn Chorus and pick 'n' mix for Monday, June 10
    TL;DR: The six things to note in Aotearoa-NZ’s political economy around housing, climate and poverty in the past day to 8:36 pm on Monday, June 10 were:20,000 protested against the Fast-track approval bill on Saturday in Auckland, but PM Christopher Luxon says ‘sorry, but not sorry’ about the need for ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    3 days ago
  • In Defence of Kāinga Ora
    Given the headlines around the recent findings of the ‘independent’ review of Kāinga Ora by Bill English, you might assume this post will be about social housing, Kāinga Ora’s most prominent role. While that is indeed something that requires defending, I want to talk about the other core purpose of ...
    Greater AucklandBy Connor Sharp
    3 days ago
  • Baby You're A Rich Man
    “How does it feel to beOne of the beautiful peopleNow that you know who you areWhat do you want to beAnd have you traveled very far?Far as the eye can see”Yesterday the ACT party faithful were regaled with craven boasts, sneers, and demands for even more at their annual rally.That ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    3 days ago
  • Stopping a future Labour government from shutting down gas exploration
    A defiant Resources Minister Shane Jones has responded to Saturday’s environmental protests by ending Labour’s offshore oil exploration ban and calling for long-term contracts with any successful explorers. The purpose would be to prevent a future Labour Government from reversing any licence the explorers might hold. Jones sees a precedent ...
    PolitikBy Richard Harman
    3 days ago
  • 2024 SkS Weekly Climate Change & Global Warming News Roundup #23
    A listing of 32 news and opinion articles we found interesting and shared on social media during the past week: Sun, June 2, 2024 thru Sat, June 8, 2024. Story of the week Our Story of the Week is Yale Climate Connection's Resources for debunking common solar and wind myths, by ...
    4 days ago
  • Fission by the river
    This is where we ate our lunch last Wednesday. Never mind your châteaux and castles and whatnot, we like to enjoy a baguette in the shadow of a nuclear power plant; a station that puts out more than twice as much as Manapouri using nothing more than tiny atoms to bring ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    4 days ago
  • Fact Brief – Is the ocean acidifying?
    Skeptical Science is partnering with Gigafact to produce fact briefs — bite-sized fact checks of trending claims. This fact brief was written by John Mason in collaboration with members from the Gigafact team. You can submit claims you think need checking via the tipline. Is the ocean acidifying? Acidification of oceans ...
    5 days ago
  • 20,000+ on Queen St.
    The largest protest I ever went on was in the mid 90s. There were 10,000 people there that day, and I’ve never forgotten it. An enormous mass of people, chanting together. Stretching block after block, bringing traffic to a halt.But I can’t say that’s the biggest protest I’ve ever been ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    5 days ago
  • Josh Drummond's Columns
    Hi there,I wanted to put all of Josh Drummond’s Webworm pieces all in one place. I love that he writes for Webworm — and all of these are a good read!David.Why Are So Many “Christians” Hellbent on Being Horrible?Why do so many objectively hideous people declare themselves “Christian”?Meeting the Master ...
    David FarrierBy David Farrier
    5 days ago
  • Bernard’s Saturday soliloquy and weekend Pick ‘n’ Mix for June 8/9
    Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: On reflection, the six things to note in Aotearoa-NZ’s political economy around housing, climate and poverty this week were:The Government-driven freeze in building new classrooms, local roads and water networks in order to save cash for tax cuts is frustrating communities facing massive population ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    5 days ago
  • The no-vision thing
    Hello! Here comes the Saturday edition of More Than A Feilding, catching you up on the past somewhat interrupted week. Still on the move!Share Read more ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    5 days ago
  • When Journalists are Disingenuous
    Hi,One of the things I like the most about Webworm is to be able to break down the media and journalism a little, and go behind the scenes.This is one of those times.Yesterday an email arrived in my inbox from journalist Jonathan Milne, who is managing editor at Newsroom.I don’t ...
    David FarrierBy David Farrier
    5 days ago
  • Me, elsewhere: Just say you’ll do the thing
    Wrote something over at 1/200 on a familiar theme of mine: The way we frame the economy as a separate, sacred force which must be sacrificed to, the way we talk about criminals as invaders who must be repelled, the constant othering of people on the benefit, people not in ...
    Boots TheoryBy Stephanie Rodgers
    6 days ago
  • A Voyage Among the Vandals: Accepted
    A nice bit of news today: my 4600-word historical fantasy-horror piece, A Voyage Among the Vandals, has been accepted by Phobica Books (https://www.phobicabooks.co.uk/books) for their upcoming Pirate Horror anthology, Shivering Timbers. This one is set in the Mediterranean, during the mid-fifth century AD. Notable for having one of history’s designated ...
    6 days ago
  • Ministerial conflicts of interest
    Since the National government came to power, it has been surrounded by allegations of conflicts of interest. Firstly, there's the fast-track law, which concentrates power in the hands of three Ministers, some of whom have received donations from companies whose projects they will be deciding on. Secondly, there's the close ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • The 2024 Budget Forecasts Are Gloomy Prognosis About The Next Three Years.
    There was no less razzamatazz about the 2024 Budget than about earlier ones. Once again the underlying economic analysis got lost. It deserves more attention.Just to remind you, the Budget Economic and Fiscal Update (BEFU), is the Treasury’s independent assessment and so can be analysed by other competent economists (although ...
    PunditBy Brian Easton
    6 days ago
  • A government that can't see twenty feet ahead
    There are two failings that consistently characterise a National government. One is a lack of imagination, the other is their willingness to look after their mates, no matter what harm it might do to everyone else.This is how we come to have thousands of enormous trucks carving up our roads. ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    6 days ago
  • A post I hope is incorrect
    In May, we learned that National MP David MacLeod had "forgotten" to declare $178,000 in electoral donations. Filing a donation return which is false in any material particular is a crime, and the Electoral Commission has now referred MacLeod to police, since they're the only people who are allowed to ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • Māori Cannot Re-Write New Zealand’s Constitution By Stealth.
    The Kotahitanga Parliament 1897: A Māori Parliament – at least in the guise of a large and representative body dedicated to describing the shape of New Zealand’s future from a Māori perspective – would be a very good idea.THE DEMAND for a “Māori Parliament” needs to be carefully unpicked. Some Pakeha, ...
    6 days ago
  • Cowpats and Colonials.
    Dumbtown, is how my friend Gerard refers to people like ZB listeners - he’s not wrong.Normally on a Friday I start by looking at Mike Hosking’s moronic reckons of the week which he vomits down the throats of his audience like helpless baby birds in a nest, grateful for the ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    6 days ago
  • Gordon Campbell on cutting the sick leave of vulnerable workers
    Should sick leave be part and parcel of the working conditions from Day One on the job, just like every other health and safety provision? Or should access to sick leave be something that only gradually accumulates, depending on how long a worker has been on the payroll? If enacted ...
    WerewolfBy lyndon
    6 days ago
  • Nobody Move: Ageing Boomers, Laurie & Les, Talk Politics.
    So long as we live in a democracy, economic policy can never be anything other than social-democratic.“HEH!”, snorted Laurie, as he waved his debit card over the EFTPOS machine. “Same price as last week. I guess budgets aren’t what they used to be.”“I wouldn’t know,” replied the young barman, wearily, ...
    6 days ago
  • In Search Of Unity.
    Kotahitanga: New Zealand’s future belongs to those who do not fear a nation carved out of unity and solidarity, and are willing to trust the carvers. Some New Zealanders will be required to step up, and others, perhaps for the first time in their lives, will be expected to step ...
    6 days ago
  • Weekly Roundup 7-June-2024
    Welcome to another Friday roundup! Here are some recent links and stories that caught our eye, perfectly timed for your watercooler discussions and weekend reading. As always feel free to share more in the comments. Our header image this week is by Patrick Reynolds, and shows Te Komititanga from above. ...
    Greater AucklandBy Greater Auckland
    6 days ago
  • The Hoon around the week to June 7
    As Workplace Relations and Safety Minister, ACT’s Brooke van Velden is fronting proposed changes to sick pay regulations and The Holiday Act. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: The podcast above of the weekly ‘hoon’ webinar for paying subscribers features talking with:The Kākā’s climate correspondent talking about the ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    6 days ago
  • Did we boil the oceans by cutting pollution?
    Lowering aerosol emissions from shipping has altered clouds, with potentially drastic effects. Photo: Getty ImagesTL;DR: Here’s the top six news items of note in climate news for Aotearoa-NZ this week, and a discussion above between Bernard Hickey and The Kākā’s climate correspondent Cathrine Dyer:New evidence is increasingly pointing at efforts ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    6 days ago
  • Skeptical Science New Research for Week #23 2024
    Open access notables Abrupt reduction in shipping emission as an inadvertent geoengineering termination shock produces substantial radiative warming, Yuan et al., Communications Earth & Environment: Human activities affect the Earth’s climate through modifying the composition of the atmosphere, which then creates radiative forcing that drives climate change. The warming effect ...
    7 days ago
  • Fragments
    The best observation I’ve read this week about the deep, profound harm Trump is doingTrump has hurled threats and smears at witnesses, jurors and the judge (including his family)... [he] has tried to intimidate witnesses and delegitimize the New York courts as corrupt. In continuing to incite his mob (that ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    7 days ago
  • March for Nature
    Do do do do do do do doDo do do do do doDi di di di di di di di di di diNature enter me…In 2018 the Labour lead government banned new oil and gas exploration in Aotearoa. A change welcomed by those who care deeply for our environment and ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    1 week ago
  • Bernard’s Dawn Chorus and pick ‘n’ mix for Thursday, June 6
    The Transport Minister is trying to push through urgent legislation that would allow him to change emissions standards for car imports without approval from Parliament, after only consulting car importers. Photo: Lynn GrievesonTL;DR: Just as two major reports showed fossil fuel burning was warming the planet to dangerous levels and ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    1 week ago
  • A Better Broadway: Act 2
    This is a guest post by reader Grant A, the second of a pair about how to fix Broadway. If you missed the beginning of the show, here’s the link to Act 1 from yesterday. Yesterday, I discussed changing traffic circulation around Broadway in Newmarket. This included implementing a car-free ...
    Greater AucklandBy Guest Post
    1 week ago
  • National breaks another health promise
    National has broken another manifesto health promise, apparently to save only $550,000. It will now train an additional 25 med students next year rather than the 50 it promised. This comes on top of the delays caused by National’s coalition partners in pushing ahead with the Waikato Medical School and ...
    PolitikBy Richard Harman
    1 week ago
  • Climate Adam: Coping as the world’s best known climate scientist
    This video includes conclusions of the creator climate scientist Dr. Adam Levy. It is presented to our readers as an informed perspective. Please see video description for references (if any). Katharine Hayhoe is quite possibly the world's most famous climate scientist. She's produced wide ranging research, and communicated climate change with ...
    1 week ago
  • SIS “evidence” isn’t, again
    Back in 2016, then-Internal Affairs Minister Peter Dunne cancelled a New Zealand woman's passport, claiming she was a terrorist. The basis for his decision was a secret briefing by the SIS, which claimed that if she was allowed to travel, the woman would "engage with individuals who encourage acts of ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • As Low As You Go
    Taking you as low as you goAs low as you goA sense of Déjà vu this morning. How many times have I begun a newsletter, “just when you thought they couldn’t go any lower…” Only for the groundhog to reappear, more pissed off than the day before.Another day with headlines ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    1 week ago
  • Bernard's Dawn Chorus and pick 'n' mix for Wednesday June 5
    TL;DR: The public health costs of human-caused air pollution in Aotearoa-NZ is estimated at $38.8 billion a year because it kills 3,300 people each year, which is almost ten times more than the death toll on roads from accidents. Yet the Ministry for the Environment has just one staff member ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    1 week ago
  • A Better Broadway: Act 1
    This is the first of a two-part guest post by Grant A, a long time reader and commenter with a keen interest in all things urban, especially cycling and public transport. He’s been thinking about how to fix Broadway. Stay tuned for Act 2! Readers might remember the pre-Christmas traffic snarl-ups in ...
    Greater AucklandBy Guest Post
    1 week ago
  • Road trance
    Sometimes technology is your friend and sometimes it can’t be bothered with you. Once you’re away from home and your dependable wifi, well, there’s no telling what will happen. I’ve been going in and out of high-speed and low-speed no-speed Internet pockets all over England and France and look, I’m ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    1 week ago
  • You Can't Undo Fake News
    Hi,I’ve been thinking a lot about Corey Harris, the 44-year old man who went viral after Zooming into his court appearance while driving. The headlines generated were basically all the same: “Man With Suspended Driver's License Dials Into Court Hearing While Driving”. The headlines said it all, and most people ...
    David FarrierBy David Farrier
    1 week ago
  • At a glance – CO2 is the main driver of climate change
    On February 14, 2023 we announced our Rebuttal Update Project. This included an ask for feedback about the added "At a glance" section in the updated basic rebuttal versions. This weekly blog post series highlights this new section of one of the updated basic rebuttal versions and serves as a ...
    1 week ago
  • Acting Prime Minister David Seymour.
    When it came to David Seymour, Jacinda got one thing right, and another wrong. What is the sacrilege, I hear you ask? In what world in relation to David Seymour was our Jacinda ever wrong?Subscribe nowAs you no doubt remember, and personally I think there should be some sort of ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    1 week ago
  • More democratic abuse from National
    "Abuse of democracy" seems to be the emerging theme of this government, with bills rammed through under urgency or given pathetically short select committee submission times seemingly designed to limit and undermine public engagement. And today we have another case, with the public given just nine days to submit on ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Gordon Campbell on the curse of being politically moderate about everything
    Nigel Farage’s initial reason for not standing in the British election – because he wanted to be a Trump adviser – never looked very convincing. His perfectly timed “change of mind” though, has won him extensive media coverage, and he’s now plunging into the election campaign as the rival candidate ...
    1 week ago
  • Bernard’s Dawn Chorus and pick ‘n’ mix for Tuesday, June 4
    Placards at a 2018 rally for better funding for new cancer drugs. National’s pre-election promise to do so may have won it votes, but the attempt to quietly drop the plan has now ignited a firestorm of protest. Photo: Lynn GrievesonTL;DR: The Government is now being engulfed in a firestorm ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    1 week ago
  • Budget 2024 Highlights
    Last week the government delivered their first budget and while there’s been plenty of other discussion about the main aspects of it, I was particularly interested to look at what it meant for transport. Before getting into too much detail, the chart below shows at a high level where transport ...
    1 week ago
  • Jeff Masters and Bob Henson give us the low-down on the 2024 Atlantic hurricane season
    This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections by Samantha Harrington (Background photo credit: NASA/NOAA GOES Project / CC BY 2.0 DEED) To kick off hurricane season, Yale Climate Connections editors Sara Peach and Sam Harrington sat down with meteorologists and Eye on the Storm writers Jeff Masters and Bob ...
    1 week ago
  • Bernard's pick 'n' mix for Monday, June 3
    TL;DR: The Tiwai Point aluminium smelter, which consumes over 15% of the motu’s renewable electricity, has struck a deal to stay open for another 20 years. This will delay Aotearoa-NZ’s transition to carbon zero and make it more expensive and unfair for the 100,000 households who currently can’t afford their ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    1 week ago
  • maBaguette
    Today we rolled through troglodyte caves and ate a fresh roast chook by the river, the mighty Loire River, the still quite angry-looking Loire River. The Loire is not itself because it has been raining here for the last seven months without a break, the locals have been telling us, ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    1 week ago
  • Empty Promises.
    Fighting out of the blue corner, wearing a pale pink jacket, a half hearted smile, and a lot of flack from the left and the right, it’s your Finance Minister - Nicola Willis.Her challenger will probe the Minister for answers. Armed with boyish charm and tricky questions, the last remaining ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    1 week ago
  • 2024 SkS Weekly Climate Change & Global Warming News Roundup #22
    A listing of 33 news and opinion articles we found interesting and shared on social media during the past week: Sun, May 26, 2024 thru Sat, June 1, 2024. Story of the week Sometimes one story is not enough. Our ongoing 2023-2024 experiences with lethal heatwaves, early wildfires and a threatening Atlantic hurricane season ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Treaty Principles Bill: Smokescreen for sweeping change?
    Much has been said about how the coalition government’s Treaty Principles Bill distorts te Tiriti o Waitangi. However, it could also serve as a Trojan horse, installing an extreme libertarian agenda. We don’t know the intent driving the proposed Bill; however, many serious effects may ensue. Far from simply clarifying the ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    2 weeks ago

  • Government to reverse blanket speed limit reductions
    The Coalition Government will reverse Labour’s blanket speed limit reductions by 1 July 2025 through a new Land Transport Rule released for public consultation today, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says.  The draft speed limit rule will deliver on the National-ACT coalition commitment to reverse the previous government’s blanket speed limit ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 hours ago
  • Chair appointments for NZSO, CNZ and NZ On Air
    Minister Paul Goldsmith is making major leadership changes within both his Arts and Media portfolios. “I am delighted to announce Carmel Walsh will be officially stepping into the role of Chair of the New Zealand Symphony Orchestra, having been acting Chair since April,” Arts Minister Paul Goldsmith says.  “Carmel is ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 hours ago
  • Government focus on long-term food, fibre growth
    Food and fibre export revenue is tipped to reach $54.6 billion this year and hit a record $66.6b in 2028 as the Government focuses on getting better access to markets and cutting red tape, Agriculture Minister Todd McClay and Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones say. “This achievement is testament ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 hours ago
  • Govt consulting on cutting red tape for exporters
    A new export exemption proposal for food businesses demonstrates the coalition Government’s commitment to reducing regulatory barriers for industry and increasing the value of New Zealand exports, which gets safe New Zealand food to more markets, says Food Safety Minister Andrew Hoggard.  “The coalition Government has listened to the concerns ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    21 hours ago
  • New Zealand and Philippines elevating relationship
    New Zealand and Philippines are continuing to elevate our relationship, Foreign Minister Winston Peters says.   “The leaders of New Zealand and Philippines agreed in April 2024 to lift our relationship to a Comprehensive Partnership by 2026,” Mr Peters says. “Our visit to Manila this week has been an excellent ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Paid Parental Leave increase to help families
    Workplace Relations and Safety Minister, Brooke van Velden says paid parental leave increase from 1 July will put more money in the pockets of Kiwi parents and give them extra support as they take precious time off to bond with their newborns. The increase takes effect from 1 July 2024 ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Defence increases UN Command commitment
    The number of New Zealand Defence Force (NZDF) personnel deployed to the Republic of Korea is increasing, Defence Minister Judith Collins and Foreign Minister Winston Peters announced today.  NZDF will deploy up to 41 additional personnel to the Republic of Korea, increasing the size of its contribution to the United ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • New Zealand to attend 'Summit on Peace in Ukraine' in Switzerland
    New Zealand will be represented at the Summit on Peace in Ukraine by Minister Mark Mitchell in Switzerland later this week.    “New Zealand strongly supports Ukraine’s efforts to build a comprehensive, just, and lasting peace,” Foreign Minister Winston Peters says.   “Minister Mitchell is a senior Cabinet Minister and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Big step forward for M.bovis programme
    Farmers’ hard work is paying off in the fight against Mycoplasma bovis (M. bovis) with the move to a national pest management plan marking strong progress in the eradication effort, says Biosecurity Minister Andrew Hoggard.  “The plan, approved by the Coalition Government, was proposed by the programme partners DairyNZ, Beef ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Build To Rent opening welcomed by Housing Minister
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and Housing Minister Chris Bishop formally opened a new Build to Rent development in Mt Wellington this morning. “The Prime Minister and I were honoured to cut the ribbon of Resido, New Zealand’s largest Build to Rent development to date.  “Build to Rent housing, like the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Agriculture to come out of the ETS
    The Government will deliver on its election commitment to take agriculture out of the New Zealand Emissions Trading Scheme (NZ ETS) and will establish a new Pastoral Sector Group to constructively tackle biogenic methane, Coalition Government Agriculture and Climate Change Ministers say. Agriculture Minister Todd McClay says New Zealand farmers ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Luxon Tokyo-bound for political and business visit
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon will travel to Japan from 16-20 June, his first visit as Prime Minister.   “Japan is incredibly important to New Zealand's prosperity. It is the world’s fourth largest economy, and our fourth largest export destination.  “As you know, growing the economy is my number one priority. A strong economy means ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Bayly travels to Singapore for scam prevention meetings
    Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs, Andrew Bayly, travels to Singapore today to attend scam and fraud prevention meetings. “Scams are a growing international problem, and we are not immune in New Zealand. Organised criminal networks operate across borders, and we need to work with our Asia-Pacific partners to tackle ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
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