web analytics

NRT: Muppets

Written By: - Date published: 4:50 pm, September 30th, 2015 - 33 comments
Categories: law - Tags: , ,

I/S at No Right Turn on the Crown’s apparent bungling of the Dotcom extradition case – and the potential cost to NZ.


Kim Dotcom’s extradition hearing is currently underway, and it appears to have hit a hurdle: the government can’t find key documentation:

The Crown has been unable to produce the original notices asking for Kim Dotcom and his co-accused to be extradited to the United States.


North Shore district court services manager Fiona Parkes – a witness for the Crown – today produced several documents she said appeared to be copies of the extradition requests.

Mr Dotcom’s lawyer Ron Mansfield pointed out the documents were not date-stamped and asked Ms Parkes if she knew whether any originals existed.

She said she did not.

Yesterday a Justice Ministry employee was unable to confirm if the former Justice Minister, Judith Collins, had seen the provisional arrest warrants and the supporting evidence before the 2012 raid on Mr Dotcom’s mansion went ahead.

Under the Extradition Act, the Justice Minister is meant to be given a copy of the warrants and supporting evidence, as part of a briefing.

This matters. A key question in extradition hearings is whether the supporting documents have been produced to the court. The fact that they can’t do that (and apparently failed to follow due process in briefing the Minister, creating instant grounds for judicial review) makes them look like a bunch of muppets. And when it comes to matters of law enforcement and people’s freedom (and millions of dollars in damages if they fuck up), you’d think they’d take a little more care…

33 comments on “NRT: Muppets ”

  1. Draco T Bastard 1

    Mr Dotcom’s lawyer Ron Mansfield pointed out the documents were not date-stamped and asked Ms Parkes if she knew whether any originals existed.

    Someone correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t it a legal requirement for them to be dated? As in, they become invalid if they don’t have it as allowing undated legal forms opens the system up to abuse?

    • McFlock 1.1

      that’s why she said in court that they “appeared to be copies of the extradition requests.”

      Not notarised as accurate copies.

      So the contents of the documents might have all the required information, the court just doesn’t know they’re accurate copies of that information.

      Think about a search warrant – it needs particulars like dates, addresses etc. But a photocopy of an arrest warrant doesn’t mean it’s the same as the original warrant, unless it was notarised at time of copying.

      I suspect that if they don’t have the original paperwork, some very interesting questions will end up being raised.

      Definitely muppets. Makes one wonder how many non-millionaires have been incarcerated based on “appeared to be” copies…

    • tracey 1.2

      not being date stamped leaves open the assertion they were not issued at the time claimed or even produced much later

      • savenz 1.2.1

        Disgusting. I guess now that it is in a real court not ‘the herald and TV3 news beat up’ real evidence needs to be established and some American Hollywood fake email can not be used. It could all have been avoided as Sony lawyers wisely knew it was a waste of time as a similar case had been bought against You Tube and they were found not guilty of copywrite infringement. File sharing is not a crime.

        When 70 armed defender abseil into someones home for a copywrite case and scare a young family and young kids, then something is defiantly wrong.

        When they repeat the mistakes with illegal spying, illegally seizing assets before guilt has been found so someone does not have the funds to defend themselves, and further try to increase the charges to money laundering to justify handing them over to the American justice system for a show trial then this is not justice.


  2. Pat 2

    a question…..is it really possible the Crown would pursue these proceedings without such an apparently basic level of preparedness?…or is another agenda at play?

    • northshoredoc 2.1

      Having dealt with crown law on a number of occasions I can confirm they are more than capable of this level of incompetence.

    • NZJester 2.2

      They did the raid without being properly legally prepared, why would they change that lack of thinking something through now?
      The whole Justice system is so under funded they most likely had a lot of inexperienced underlings doing the bulk of the work. The originals are most likely misfiled or misplaced.

      • One Anonymous Bloke 2.2.1

        The originals are most likely misfiled or misplaced.

        Or perhaps they were procedurally invalid in some way and were then surreptitiously altered and photocopied to conceal the alterations. Let’s not forget Wormald’s perjury.

        • Draco T Bastard

          Or simply didn’t exist until someone realised the mistake and quickly filled them in – except for the date.

        • Macro

          Let’s not forget Wormald’s perjury.
          Exactly! It gets very very fishy.

          • savenz

            It could have just been a golf game handshake. No paperwork necessary.

            • Macro

              Isn’t that how we do business? Sky city /Hollywood law changes, TPPA deals – u piss in my pocket – i’ll piss in urs?

  3. ianmac 3

    When the Crown has spent millions of taxpayers money on prosecuting the FBI case, surely there is one little person who guards the critical documents. Wow

    • mickysavage 3.1

      Those damned back office jobs the nats keep wanting to cut are slightly more important than they thought.

      • Grindlebottom 3.1.1

        They sure are. Enjoyed Lisa Owen taking Anne Tolley to task on that very point on The Nation last week when Tolley blathered on and on about CYFs caseworkers being overburdened with paperwork and unable to focus on the needs of their clients.

      • Steve Withers 3.1.2

        BOOM!! Nailed it.

  4. Gristle 4

    I hope you all remember that the Police have had to issue a “guarantee” of up to $2B to Dotcom et al in the event of the chain of prosecutions failing. Any bets on whether the house will have to make a payout on the jackpot.

    • mickysavage 4.1


    • tc 4.2

      Sounds like BS Gristle provide evidence of such a claim. The police charge to convict I’ve not heard of any situation where they agree a damages figure before they commence.

      • Gristle 4.2.1

        tc, tc tc… if only you had scrolled down just a bit more and read Pasupil’s sourcing. Then you would not had to show to one and all that you don’t read very much before jumping to print.

        But I agree with you that it is extremely unusual for the Assist Com of Police to have give the Court this sort of undertaking. Which of coarse is why it was memorable. If had been me signing up to the undertaking, I would be feeling nervous that Sony had abandoned the litigation.

        • mickysavage

          Um I have never heard of a similar situation occurring before. I would agree with TC.

          The fact that Marshall signed an undertaking in this case shows how unusual it is …

  5. Pasupial 5

    This may prove to be a very costly omission in the paperwork, from the (millions of dollars…) link above:

    then-police commissioner Peter Marshall signed the “undertaking in respect to costs and damages” – the agreement which would allow Dotcom to sue New Zealand if it emerged the FBI case against him was unfair and unfounded…

    Dotcom has claimed the loss of Megaupload cost him more than $2 billion although others have argued the impact is far less…

    The requirement to give an undertaking to the court to meet any damages was a factor which put Sony off joining a civil case seeking to claim Dotcom’s assets, emailed hacked and released last year revealed. Sony’s top copyright lawyer, Aimee Wolfson, said it was “not at all unimaginable” Dotcom would avoid extradition or even successfully defend himself in the United States.

    The studio is not a participant in a case in NZ courts with discussion in the emails showing potential exposure to a legal suit from Dotcom concerning executives.


    • tracey 5.1

      of course he may begin to enforce it and then settle for an apology from key and collins in a form he writes… or resignation in return for not suing.

      seems VERY odd to omit 2 such important things. In my experience court officials are pretty i dotty and t crossy…

  6. xanthe 6

    Damn i really was looking forward to seeing those pandas

  7. maui 7

    Makes me want to watch an old episode of Rainbow, I think I know now whose playing the character of Bungle.

  8. savenz 8

    Man accused of stealing $5 in snacks died in jail as he waited for space at mental hospital


    ‘Justice’ in the USA!

  9. emergency mike 9

    No original? ‘Appeared to be copies’? Not notarized? No date stamp? (Good luck getting a WINZ benefit like this.)

    Gosh what is that smell?

Recent Comments

Recent Posts

  • Tokelau Language Week reminds us to stay united and strong
    Staying strong in the face of challenges and being true to our heritage and languages are key to preserving our cultural identity and wellbeing, is the focus of the 2020 Tokelau Language Week. Minister for Pacific Peoples, Aupito William Sio, says this year’s theme, ‘Apoapo tau foe, i nā tāfea ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • NZ announces a third P-3 deployment in support of UN sanctions
    The Government has deployed a Royal New Zealand Air Force P-3K2 Orion (P-3) maritime patrol aircraft to support the implementation of United Nations Security Council (UNSC) resolutions imposing sanctions against North Korea, announced Minister of Foreign Affairs Winston Peters and Minister of Defence Ron Mark. “New Zealand has long supported ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Pacific trade and development agreement a reality
    Pacific regional trade and development agreement PACER Plus will enter into force in 60 days now that the required eight countries have ratified it. Trade and Export Growth Minister David Parker welcomed the announcement that the Cook Islands is the eighth nation to ratify this landmark agreement. “The agreement represents ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Securing a pipeline of teachers
    The Government is changing its approach to teacher recruitment as COVID-19 travel restrictions continue, by boosting a range of initiatives to get more Kiwis into teaching. “When we came into Government, we were faced with a teacher supply crisis,” Education Minister Chris Hipkins said. “Over the past three years, we ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Border exceptions for a small number of international students with visas
    The Government has established a new category that will allow 250 international PhD and postgraduate students to enter New Zealand and continue their studies, in the latest set of border exceptions. “The health, safety and wellbeing of people in New Zealand remains the Government’s top priority. Tight border restrictions remain ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • First COVID-19 vaccine purchase agreement signed
    The Government has signed an agreement to purchase 1.5 million COVID-19 vaccines – enough for 750,000 people – from Pfizer and BioNTech, subject to the vaccine successfully completing all clinical trials and passing regulatory approvals in New Zealand, say Research, Science and Innovation Minister Megan Woods and Health Minister Chris Hipkins. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • International statement – End-to-end encryption and public safety
    We, the undersigned, support strong encryption, which plays a crucial role in protecting personal data, privacy, intellectual property, trade secrets and cyber security.  It also serves a vital purpose in repressive states to protect journalists, human rights defenders and other vulnerable people, as stated in the 2017 resolution of the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Ministry of Defence Biodefence Assessment released
    The Ministry of Defence has today released a Defence Assessment examining Defence’s role across the spectrum of biological hazards and threats facing New Zealand. Biodefence: Preparing for a New Era of Biological Hazards and Threats looks at how the NZDF supports other agencies’ biodefence activities, and considers the context of ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • New Approaches to Economic Challenges: Confronting Planetary Emergencies: OECD 9 October 2020
    New Approaches to Economic Challenges: Confronting Planetary Emergencies: OECD 9 October 2020 Hon David Parker’s response following Thomas Piketty and Esther Duflo. Good morning, good afternoon, and good evening, wherever in the world you might be. I first acknowledge the excellent thought provoking speeches of Thomas Piketty and Esther ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Kaipara Moana restoration takes next step
    A Memorandum of Understanding has been signed today at Waihāua Marae between the Crown, local iwi and councils to protect, restore and enhance the mauri of Kaipara Moana in Northland. Environment Minister David Parker signed the document on behalf of the Crown along with representatives from Ngā Maunga Whakahī, Ngāti ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • New Zealand and Uruguay unite on reducing livestock production emissions
    Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor and Uruguayan Minister of Livestock, Agriculture and Fisheries Carlos María Uriarte have welcomed the launch of a three-year project that will underpin sustainable livestock production in Uruguay, Argentina, and Costa Rica.  The project called ‘Innovation for pasture management’ is led by Uruguay’s National Institute of Agricultural ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • 3100 jobs created through marae upgrades
    Hundreds of marae throughout the country will be upgraded through investments from the Provincial Growth Fund’s refocused post COVID-19 funding to create jobs and put money into the pockets of local tradespeople and businesses, Regional Economic Development Minister Shane Jones and Māori Development Minister Nanaia Mahuta have announced. “A total ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Health volunteers recognised in annual awards
    Health Minister Chris Hipkins has announced 9 teams and 14 individuals are the recipients of this year’s Minister of Health Volunteer Awards.  “The health volunteer awards celebrate and recognise the thousands of dedicated health sector volunteers who give many hours of their time to help other New Zealanders,” Mr Hipkins ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Community COVID-19 Fund supports Pacific recovery
    The Minister for Pacific Peoples, Aupito William Sio says a total of 264 groups and individuals have successfully applied for the Pacific Aotearoa Community COVID-19 Recovery Fund, that will support Pacific communities drive their own COVID-19 recovery strategies, initiatives, and actions. “I am keen to see this Fund support Pacific ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Community benefits from Māori apprenticeships
    Up to 50 Māori apprentices in Wellington will receive paid training to build houses for their local communities, thanks to a $2.75 million investment from the Māori Trades and Training Fund, announced Employment Minister Willie Jackson today. “This funding will enable Ngāti Toa Rangatira Incorporated to provide its Ngā Kaimahi ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Training fund supports Māori jobseekers
    Rapidly growing sectors will benefit from a $990,000 Māori Trades and Training Fund investment which will see Wellington jobseekers supported into work, announced Employment Minister Willie Jackson today. “This funding will enable Sapphire Consultants Ltd. to help up to 45 Māori jobseekers into paid training initiatives over two years through ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Ruakura Inland Port development vital infrastructure for Waikato
    The Government is investing $40 million to develop an inland port at Ruakura which will become a freight super-hub and a future business, research and residential development for the Waikato, Urban Development and Transport Minister Phil Twyford, and Māori Development Minister Nanaia Mahuta announced today. The funding has been has ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 weeks ago
  • Appointments made to Defence Expert Review Group
    Defence Minister Ron Mark announced today the establishment of an Expert Review Group to review a number of aspects of the New Zealand Defence Force’s (NZDF) structure, information management and record-keeping processes.  The Expert Review Group’s work arises out of the first recommendation from the Report of the Government’s Inquiry ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 weeks ago
  • No active community cases of COVID-19
    There are no active community cases of COVID-19 remaining in the country after the last people from the recent outbreak have recovered from the virus, Health Minister Chris Hipkins said today. “This is a big milestone. New Zealanders have once again through their collective actions squashed the virus. The systems ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 weeks ago
  • Clean energy upgrade for more public buildings
    More public buildings will be supported by the Government to upgrade to run on clean energy, the Minister for Climate Change James Shaw announced today. Minister Shaw announced that Lincoln and Auckland universities will receive support through the Clean-Powered Public Service Fund to replace fossil fuel boilers. Southern, Taranaki, and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 weeks ago