O’Connor and Jackson for Labour

71 comments on “O’Connor and Jackson for Labour ”

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1. Sigh 1

   2 February 2017 at 10:47 am

   Jackson coming on board would be a death blow to the Maori Party. He controls the Maori Party in Auckland and the North, with a majority of the Maori Party’s members being his backers who he signed up to the party.

   Willy has massive resources and networks throughout Maoridom. He was central to Tuku’s strategy.

   This is HUGE and could be the difference between Labour losing a couple of Maori seats or wiping the Maori Party out. If the election is close (which it should be) this savvy move by Little could be the thing that wins it.
   • Leftie 1.1

     2 February 2017 at 3:57 pm

     Looks like ex NZ First, Tuke Morgan desperately tried to change Willie Jackson’s mind.

     “Morgan has spoken with Jackson on a number of occasions” but said he “certainly looks as though he’s made up his mind”.

     <a href="http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/89012399/labour-welcome-to-him–maori-party-president-waves-goodbye-to-willie-jackson

     This is a massive blow to the Maori party, and to National too.
2. Policy Parrot 2

   2 February 2017 at 10:58 am

   Some activists may not be happy seeing candidates that do not share all of their values being shoe-horned into parliamentary contention by the leadership, but:

   – Do you really feel that the parliamentary and Fraser House teams are actively acting against the other?
   – If not, should the membership not be trusting their judgement around reaching out to prominent like-minded community members so that voters can see that people that they respect could be at the table if Labour is given their vote?

   IAC – the Greens offer suitable insurance to prevent the leadership running off on a political tangent again.
   • weka 2.1

     2 February 2017 at 1:18 pm

     Willie Jackson’s very public support for Clint Rickards (a friend) and his poor professional performance in the media over the Roastbusters case are reasonably significant issues. In both cases he contributed loudly to rape culture and used his positions of institutional power to do so. I’m not saying that precludes him from standing for Labour*. I would like to know how Labour will deal with this if/when it comes up though. Labour have a history of their MPs speaking publicly against the party’s position, so how is it going to work the next time this comes up? It’s not like women or feminists or those in the political sphere working against rape culture are not going to have a huge problem with this. Labour does seem to be changing for the better but I’m not confident they’re that good yet.

     * (although plenty will and in an ideal world it should prevent him from being an MP. If we stopped all the people who promote rape culture from being in parliament that’d cut the numbers in half, which while tempting and would be a great solution to many things, it’s just not going to happen, so we need processes for dealing with that).
3. tc 3

   2 February 2017 at 11:01 am

   shane jones folks ! Willie is a smarter model but just as self serving.

   Oconnor is just wierd maybe he sees this as a comfy next gig and like dunne will flap with the breeze in ensuring he’s well looked after.

   So thats the right seat for that behaviour
   • greywarshark 3.1

     3 February 2017 at 11:59 am

     tc
     I have heard Greg O’Connor talk outside police matters and he sounds okay. As government is pretty weird, he could fit in just right. Better than Willie (the WeatherCock) who turns with the wind and is likely to fart in his leader’s face and think that was funny.
4. EE 4

   2 February 2017 at 11:02 am

   How would Labour reconcile with Jackson’s love of charter schools?
   • Policy Parrot 4.1

     2 February 2017 at 11:14 am

     Jackson is pro-Maori development more than pro-charter schools. Charter schools should be able to remain that for semantics, but make sure that they are subject to the same standards as state schools, i.e. teacher-pupil ratios, teacher qualifications, pay etc.

     Take the soldiers out of the Trojan horse and all there is is a horse.
     • Bob 4.1.1

       2 February 2017 at 12:16 pm

       “teacher qualifications”
       Would you also have our Universities held to those same standards?
       I have no problem with teacher-pupil ratios, pay and achievement standards be held to the same standards of public schools, however, how can teacher qualifications be one of you key requirements without having the same requirement for Universities.
       If a school wants to bring Shamubeel Eaqub in to teach Economics, why should we prevent them? The school would be held to the requirement for the pupils to pass their NCEA qualifications or they wouldn’t receive their performance payments, so it is up to the school to bring the right people to teach. Passing a 12 month add-on at University doesn’t suddenly make you great teacher.
       • Policy Parrot 4.1.1.1

         2 February 2017 at 1:47 pm

         I don’t think that there is any particular problem with this on a limited basis, perhaps one secondment at a time per school. Just remember that many good research academics are incredibly poor teachers/lecturers. Teacher training does help cope with some the gaps, ultimately though it is up to the person.
       • JanM 4.1.1.2

         2 February 2017 at 3:47 pm

         There are two major differences between schools and universities which make teacher training at the former highly advisable and to some extent irrelevant in the latter:
         1. Schooling is compulsory and therefore schools have all levels of ability in their classrooms (and some who don’t want to be there at all!). Teachers need strategies to cope with these varying levels of interest and academic levels. Tertiary students are not compelled to be there so it’s reasonably safe to assume they are self motivated to learn and gain whatever qualification they are enrolled in.
         2. The pupils in schools, unlike those in universities, are not adults and it is therefore strongly advisable to understand the levels of development for different age groups within the school system.
         Having said that, when I was lecturing I did do a paper in adult teaching and learning and found it positive and helpful
     • Richard McGrath 4.1.2

       3 February 2017 at 12:44 am

       Not only is Willie Jackson open to the idea of charter schools, several years ago he had heart surgery done in the private sector rather than risk dying on a public hospital waiting list.
5. Enough is Enough 5

   2 February 2017 at 11:07 am

   I think Willy is a great move.

   He is a former Union Leader, Maori Leader, opposes neoliberalism on a daily basis and will attract some of the missing million.
   • indiana 5.1

     2 February 2017 at 12:48 pm

     But he is a man…
     • DoublePlusGood 5.1.1

       2 February 2017 at 4:11 pm

       So?
6. Ovid 6

   2 February 2017 at 1:04 pm

   I’m not much for party purity tests. I think if O’Connor – a former union leader – thinks Labour’s principles align with his own, then he’s welcome aboard. I don’t share his views on arming the police beyond the steps already taken, but that’s not enough in my view to vilify him.

   Likewise I welcome Jackson too. On the whole I think both men will open Labour to broader appeal.
7. Ad 7

   2 February 2017 at 1:15 pm

   This is going to turn the main Labour list conference into a proper bunfight.
8. Observer Tokoroa 8

   2 February 2017 at 2:02 pm

   To: Anthony Robins

   Anthony you know better than I do that many of the commentors on here are not Labour friendly.

   Therefore you should not allow them to pass personal non -documented official statements about Labour Candidates.

   The Trolls never stop toiling for the dirty National Party, who in the name of Wealth and Money, continues to destroy the common men and women of New Zealand.

   Low wages. High high Rents. Shocking Housing. Too few Jobs. Poor Health provision. Poor Education. Rotten Opportunities. Massive competition from immigrants.

   Housing Crisis. “There is no Housing Crisis says Paula the Deputy Prime Minister of New Zealand “. The PM English states the same. John Key stated the same. true blue shagging nonsense.

   The trolls, on behalf of the Nationals want to remove Kiwis – not only from Auckland but from the entire Nation. For the dirty Nationals only support the wealthy.

   Suffocate the trollship Anthony. Bury their stinking unwholesome rubbish.
   • r0b 8.1

     2 February 2017 at 3:26 pm

     OT – I have some sympathy with your views believe me! But nothing in the comments so far strikes me as as over the line.

     Also, a political blog, by its nature, is a forum for discussion and disagreement. Kick out everyone you disagree with and what you have left is a dangerous echo chamber. We need to hear what the Nat folk are thinking.
     • Observer Tokoroa 8.1.1

       2 February 2017 at 3:59 pm

       Hi Rob

       If you want to rubbish a Labour Candidate – I think it reasonable that you have very good grounds and documentation for doing so.

       Do you not agree ?

       Anything less is unlawful.
       • r0b 8.1.1.1

         2 February 2017 at 4:47 pm

         Well there are laws on slander / libel, but up to that point I don’t believe it is unlawful to “rubbish” people without very good grounds, no.
       • lprent 8.1.1.2

         2 February 2017 at 6:30 pm

         Quite simply the laws and case law of the country are designed to set the outer limits of possible behaviour. They’re always a balance point.

         So in a political talk-talk forum there are the criminal law areas. That is criminal incitement, conspiracy and a few bits of the summary offenses act and the crimes act. There are the provisions of the harmful digital communications act (HDCA) that are being tested by the courts at present.

         In the civil law realm there are is the defamation act, mitigated by case law of things like Lange vs Anderson. This requires a lot lower standard of proof than criminal law (apart from the HDCA which appears to have been written by people who wanted to write an unenforceable act). So civil laws are the ones we observe the most closely

         Then there is the bill of rights act (BORA) which tends to mitigate against all of those.

         Now the way that I read most of those is that generally people have an expectation of privacy – especially chilren. Politicians and candidates for public office (and to a lesser extent people seeking public attention) effectively waive a lot of their expectation of privacy. This is based on the various public interest considerations in statute, common law, and BORA.

         For the most part what we look at with public figures, especially politicians, is the space between opinion and fact. False facts are defamatory and put us at risk. Opinion when applied to public figures we limit to people providing an argument (ie no pointless abuse). We generally squelch personal opinion on non-public figures except as it affects things discussed in the public interest (ie personal gossip bad – debate on issues facing societies ok). Children are normally exempted from discussion.
   • stunned mullet 8.2

     2 February 2017 at 3:37 pm

     Gosh Mr Observer what a terrible country NZ is… you sound like a NZ poorman’s version of Donald Trump.
     • Observer Tokoroa 8.2.1

       2 February 2017 at 3:54 pm

       You don’t want to admit that your wealthy Nationals have done nothing for the commom man in New Zealand. Blame everyone Stunned Mullet. But don’t blame yourself or your wealthy Nationals.

       Progress only for fewer and fewer wealthy people.
9. adam 9

   2 February 2017 at 2:04 pm

   My problem with Greg O’Connor is the fact he rolled on wages for police so many times. Looking after members, he was OK. But on the issue of wages, he was weak. Not sure this is the type of union person we want in government, it shows a natural weakness in my opinion.
   • fender 9.1

     2 February 2017 at 2:37 pm

     His “gun on every hip” fetish is disturbing also.
     • marie 9.1.1

       2 February 2017 at 5:38 pm

       Absolutely…totally agree. Always thought he was a nasty piece of work. No doubt he would love to be Police Minister and this would be dangerous in my opinion. I believe it would be a real concern for NZ if he was put in a position of power.
     • Sir David Henry 9.1.2

       2 February 2017 at 7:43 pm

       Not to forget his desire (and the Police Associations) to disarm licenced and law abiding citizens at the same time.
       • Richard McGrath 9.1.2.1

         3 February 2017 at 12:46 am

         Another gun control freak…
10. Brutus Iscariot 10

    2 February 2017 at 3:25 pm

    Securing Jackson is a big coup for Labour.
11. opium 11

    2 February 2017 at 3:29 pm

    I must say the thought of Greg O’connor in parliament sends chills up my spine.He represents everything that is wrong with our current police force.
    • marie 11.1

      2 February 2017 at 5:40 pm

      +100
    • Richard Christie 11.2

      2 February 2017 at 10:21 pm

      plus another 100

      How can you respect a person who justified every single police shooting – before any investigations had even taken place.
      • rob 11.2.1

        3 February 2017 at 8:35 am

        Agree totally
      • marie 11.2.2

        4 February 2017 at 10:45 am

        You’re correct. You can’t respect that sort of behaviour. He’s a liability and Labour need to be very careful.
    • Benby 11.3

      2 February 2017 at 11:12 pm

      ++. See my comment #16 too.
12. Tiger Mountain 12

    2 February 2017 at 3:34 pm

    so sections of the Alliance are coming back to Labour?

    why bother really, Labour has not repudiated neo liberalism and sorry still seems to be the hardest word regarding Rogernomics wrecking ball through provincial NZ

    Mr O’Connor seems a Wellington man before all else so who knows, he may persuade the civil servants of Ohariu to dump Hairdo

    this election is shaping up to be another one for the opposition to lose, they should be smashing the Nats with the housing crisis etc. Labour has finally got it right on super at 65–though 60 as an option for flogged out workers would go down well;

    all those kiwis voting Nat for the sake of property prices and effectively turning their backs on the renters and homeless and working poor need to be told by credible opposition leaders–“the party is over” and an incremental lowering of property prices over a number of years including…
    –massive house build and trades training
    –capital gains on multiple properties beyond a house and bach
    –curbs on immigration
    –rent control and full tenants rights, organised occupations and squats of the 33,000 empty Auckland properties till the greediest get the message
    –re-establishment of full union rights to move out of the low wage economy trap

    if the above kind of thing does not happen it does not matter who stands in which seat
    • Peter 12.1

      2 February 2017 at 8:07 pm

      Well said carn’t agree more
    • Olwyn 12.2

      2 February 2017 at 11:00 pm

      +1000 TM.
      • greywarshark 12.2.1

        3 February 2017 at 10:01 am

        Hi Olwyn
        Had an idea. And don’t know if you have time for it but think you would approve, so am sending my spiel to you to see what you think and hope you can be in.

        You always bring good political ideas and a breadth of vision to the problems facing us.
        We need new approaches to get through this maze we wander in. I had the idea that new ideas and thoughts could spring from studying books on the important subjects relating to our politics. Could you find the time to be in this – over a month first reading and noting about E F Schumaker and his Small is Beautiful and then having a great discussion on a Sunday post at end of month? It would be great if you could be in. Could you reply to this comment today if poss. Thanks.

        I am writing similarly to other regular commenters who I feel would be interested, but of course it is a matter of time available. Regards.
        • Olwyn 12.2.1.1

          3 February 2017 at 11:47 am

          Hi, and thanks for contacting me about your idea. I do not have a copy of the book, so my inclusion in this round depends on my getting hold of it.
          • greywarshark 12.2.1.1.1

            3 February 2017 at 12:04 pm

            Olwyn
            We will make sure that you know where to get access to the book by hook or crook (the shepherd’s one of course). On Sunday 12th there should be a post about it with all the different ways to access the book, and not expensively either, according to weka who has done preliminary scouting. Great if you can be in. See you on the 12th.
            • Olwyn 12.2.1.1.1.1

              3 February 2017 at 1:45 pm

              Thanks grey: I will see if I can hunt it down, and look to Weka’s suggestions should I fail to find it.
    • millsy 12.3

      3 February 2017 at 8:59 am

      ‘why bother really, Labour has not repudiated neo liberalism and sorry still seems to be the hardest word regarding Rogernomics wrecking ball through provincial NZ’

      Rogernomics was a wrecking ball ’twas true, but the real damage was done after 1991, with the ECA and Ruth’s budget, which included cuts to health and education and the closing down of many services as much as cutting benefits and housing support. The bottom half of NZ took a huge hit in living standards after that.
      • Tiger Mountain 12.3.1

        3 February 2017 at 11:49 am

        I hoped it is taken as read that “Ruthanasia” was a continuation of the structural changes began by Rogernomics such as Reserve Bank and State Sector Acts and SOEs etc, in no way should the Nats get off the hook

        certainly the early 90s, on the back of the ECA weakening of unions and the ending of GWOs etc. was when productivity and wages parted company for good, as in other OECD countries as neo liberalism diminished collective bargaining

        Nats did some of the nastiest work with hospital closures, market rents etc. and by cutting benefits on purpose to levels below that needed to sustain people at a basic level, but the next Labour led government was a lost opportunity really with its “jobs jolt” and “no go” provincial towns for unemployed and NOT reinstating the Richardson cuts

        society has moved on now and stable full time work is a rarity for most so it is more about working out the details of a UBI as part of a move to AI run workplaces and services, Labour actually put out an interesting “Future of Work” Report last year that sank without trace for most people being overlong for mass media coverage
    • greywarshark 12.4

      3 February 2017 at 9:57 am

      Tiger Mountain
      You always bring good political ideas and a breadth of vision to the problems facing us.
      We need new approaches to get through this maze we wander in. I had the idea that new ideas and thoughts could spring from studying books on the important subjects relating to our politics. Could you find the time to be in this – over a month first reading and noting about E F Schumaker and his Small is Beautiful and then having a great discussion on a Sunday post at end of month? It would be great if you could be in. Could you reply to this comment today if poss. Thanks.

      I am writing similarly to other regular commenters who I feel would be interested, but of course it is a matter of time available. Regards.
      • Tiger Mountain 12.4.1

        3 February 2017 at 11:35 am

        I’ll give it a go greywarshark

        have hardly been a regular contributor lately, but do skim the site most days, the US elections really disrupted normal transmission here, and for a good part of the rest of the internet!
        • greywarshark 12.4.1.1

          3 February 2017 at 11:55 am

          Tiger Mountain
          Great. I am finding a good core of people, and the next is we will have an explanatory post about it probably on Sunday 12/2 and I’ll send a comment to all the core people so they get to see it and we’ll get started then. Weka is keen to see us having this sort of thing and helping to get it going with advice and joining so lots of positives, and once announced others will be interested so should be good. Be seeing you next Sunday unless unforeseens occur.

          Yes the USA attention machine operates continuously on the theme that dominating the stage is the important thing, whether it is good or bad news.
          And with Trump in, and already putting his name down for 2020 which apparently enables him to treat the intervening years as campaigning years, and with probably a campaign symbol of a pelicanTM with big beak and pouch for donations, then we can be sure that we will fight to get any traction in the mainstream news for little us, instead of the big US. (I just thought I should trademark the pelican, that was a great idea, I could make good money from that!)
13. McFlock 13

    2 February 2017 at 3:52 pm

    That’s … a really broad church…

    Still, folks jumping to Labour bodes well, imo. The past instability is fading, it seems.
14. Michael who failed Civics 14

    2 February 2017 at 4:31 pm

    None of Labour’s current MPs are attractive to any but the most die-hard supporters (and they’re dying off fast) so I suppose they’ve got to get “celebrities” to draw the punters in. I’m not sure, though, whether Jackson and O’Connor have any real commitment to the Party’s principles that justifies their windfall of lucrative taxpayer-funded office. OTOH, that observation applies to the current caucus as well, so I guess these two will fit in well.
    • Tiger Mountain 14.1

      2 February 2017 at 4:37 pm

      I comment on NZ Labour from the perspective of decades of involvement in the NZ union and left political scene, I am hard on them because I give a damn–whats your excuse?

      don’t just go…piss off!!
      • Red 14.1.1

        2 February 2017 at 8:06 pm

        does not make your view any more valid, before even arguing your proposed polices are rubbish, tried and failed for over 100 years
        • One Anonymous Bloke 14.1.1.1

          2 February 2017 at 8:13 pm

          Social democracy has failed 😆
          • Whateva next? 14.1.1.1.1

            2 February 2017 at 11:04 pm

            And capitalism is successful?
            • Richard McGrath 14.1.1.1.1.1

              3 February 2017 at 12:49 am

              Yep, nothing else has done more to lift people out of poverty.
              • One Anonymous Bloke …

                3 February 2017 at 8:06 am

                …apart from social democracy and progressive taxation.
              • millsy …

                3 February 2017 at 8:50 am

                Thought it was mechanization of agriculture, but that is me.
            • One Anonymous Bloke 14.1.1.1.1.2

              3 February 2017 at 9:01 am

              That’s another of Richard’s dreams. For one thing, there is not one purely Capitalist country on the planet: they all rely on varying degrees of Socialism too.
15. newsense 15

    2 February 2017 at 7:02 pm

    Two guys with more public profile than most of the Labour team put together joining Labour…can’t hurt!

    (Sorry, but no so untrue yeh?)
16. Benby 16

    2 February 2017 at 11:10 pm

    O’Connor is just wacko weird.

    If Ohariu is supposed to vote Dunne out, we need perspective. Someone young and colourful, e.g. a woman who’s not a soccer mum or so. Someone cool who speaks to the moms and dads, and to the kids.

    As it is, Labour really wants to lose.
    • Richard McGrath 16.1

      3 February 2017 at 12:51 am

      Someone cool… like a celebrity… style over substance.
      • Benby 16.1.1

        3 February 2017 at 7:59 am

        That’s not what I meant.
    • red-blooded 16.2

      3 February 2017 at 7:46 am

      Ohariu votes for Mr Boring time and time again. What makes you think they want the kind of candidate you would find energising? O’Connor isn’t who I’d want as my electorate MP, but I live in Dunedin and we always return Labour seats. What works here and what works in Ohariu are different things.

      If he’s elected O’Connor will be one voice in the caucus – he’ll have to work to gain respect if he wants to be more than that. I think this is probably a savvy move.
      • Benby 16.2.1

        3 February 2017 at 8:04 am

        Maybe I’m not the typical Ohariu voter 🙂

        But really, a grey suit, who advocates for more guns, and impunity using them?
        http://norightturn.blogspot.co.nz/2017/01/if-greg-oconnor-is-answer-wtf-was.html

        There seems to be a problem with recruiting competent people into politics.
17. straightup 17

    3 February 2017 at 8:08 am

    greg oconner for labour is political suicide. I am a full labour supporter but put him in the mix and i will abstain from this election
18. straightup 18

    3 February 2017 at 8:13 am

    https://thestandard.org.nz/time-for-greg-oconnor-to-resign/
    • rob 18.1

      3 February 2017 at 8:46 am

      Excellent comments and o conner in the Labour party just doesn’t come across right too me,I’m worried about his appointment at this stage.
19. Xanthe 19

    3 February 2017 at 9:19 am

    oconnor and jackson. Clearly they know nats will lose this time , and the ultra right is jumping to labour, which welcomes them with open arms,, explain to me again why so many people “cant be bothered” to vote. Something about 5%?
20. Observer Tokoroa 20

    3 February 2017 at 9:59 am

    AS Predicted

    The Trolls have flocked to this O’connor and Jackson topic pouring out their usual rubbish.

    They have had their hands on the levers of power for eight years – in which time they have taken housing ownership away from all future generations of younger New Zealanders; applied excessive rental rates to all New zealanders for life time; sold off assests to their wealthy mates. run down Health; Education; Training and Opportunity.; allowed crime to spiral. Made the cost of heating impossible on low rates of pay.

    But it seems that The standard is the only place that welcomes the Trolls. Can we not realise that the trolls belong to the harmful sector of society ?
    • lprent 20.1

      6 February 2017 at 1:33 pm

      ‘Trolls’ represent a part of society, so they are as welcome to speak here as anyone else. Like everyone else, if their behavior get in the way of robust and useful debate, then they get warnings and bans.

      Besides, while I haven’t had a good look through this post today, I hadn’t noticed any particularly sustained bad behaviour.

      I suspect that you simply disagree with some people and have a poor sense of discrimination between opinions you disagree with and behaviour that you dislike. But that is why we have a limited number of people who act as moderators that we trust to distinguish between what is opinion and what is bad behaviour.
21. Takere 21

    5 February 2017 at 2:21 pm

    You know its a 2fur. You get JT as well as there two organisations MUMA & Waipareira Trust are joined at the hip.
    Mana Motuhake
    Social Dem’s
    Liberals
    The Alliance – Laila Harre
    The Alliance! Mk11 The Republic! Maybe? The orchestrator, McCarten Maybe?

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