I’d be fascinated by analysis of gender, ethnicity and religion across all the parties. While sexual orientation would be interesting too I suspect it would devolve into a rumour and innuendo session pretty quickly đ
it is all fine to say that national have got 12 (13? a reference would be nice) women and Labour have 18, but the important part is to look at the power that the women hold in the party.
I think that old boys club is well justified looking at the front bench.
“Now, you offer an objective argument that having a male PM is better for rugby than having a female one (note: you’re not arguing specific males or females, you’re arguing between genders). If you can’t but you assume it’s true anyway and so argue that we should have any male instead of any female as PM, then, by definition you’re a bigot a bigot holds a prejudice against a group of people in spite of a lack of supporting evidence.”
So following your own words, simply having any females as opposed to any males means you are a bigot. By your very own words SP you are a bigot.
Unless you were simply talking shit when you said that yesterday. So, either talking shit or a bigot.
vto, there are legitimate arguments (supporting evidence, shall I say) for representation of females in our parliament. Y’know, representation and all that PC nonsense?
Shouldn’t competence be the issue rather than gender – personally it doesn’t worry me at all who we employ as MPs as long as they do a good job.
The assumption that men or women aren’t capable of representing those of the opposite gender just as capably as someone of the same gender I find somewhat absurd.
If Parliament/the National Party caucus/the Labour party caucus was truly representative we’d expect to have roughly equivalent proportions for gender, ethnicity, and so on, as we find in the rest of the population.
If the proportion is not roughly equivalent there are two possible causes:
1) Randomness (I feel a reference to Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead coming on).
2) Some kind of selection bias.
I’m going for some kind of selection bias in the cases of Parliament, Labour and National. Are you arguing it’s randomness?
Do you think that analysis of representation is bigotry?
dont really want to open a can of worms here, but your comment only works if black, white, woman, and man are viewed and treated equally, and they are not.
I am still optimistic that one day in the future maybe, but not just yet. There is still are too many prejudices out there regarding minorities.
While sexual orientation would be interesting too I suspect it would devolve into a rumour and innuendo session pretty quickly
Well, all we can say on that score is that Labour is grossly over-represented in its Caucus based on the known homosexuals and lesbians (at least five).
black/white, woman/man.. who cares.. vote for who does the best job
But I agree with you in that.. Men representing mens issues (example – that quietly but heavily dissed in certain halls matter of rugby). Women representing women issues. No problem. It is SP that seems to have the problem, namely consistency and hence credibility, in that he had a real problem with the idea that one of the country’s major sport and cultural icons, which is heavily male dominated, could be assisted by having a male in leadership. Which is completely contrary to this post of his concerning women being assisted by having women in leadership, namely within the nat caucus.
“I think that old boys club is well justified looking at
the front bench.”
Excerpt from Tim Ellis’ comment yesterday:
“National has two women on the front bench of ten, Anita: Judith Collins and Anne Tolley. Labour also only has two women on the front bench of ten: Helen Clark and Annette King.
I could make a cheap shot and ask what value Judith Tizard, Sue Moroney, Lynne Pillay, Jill Pettis and Lesley Soper bring to Labour’s caucus. They’re never going to be front-benchers are they? Actually, I suppose even saying that is a cheap shot, but I will live with it.”
All of the new women candidates National has selected for this election have the potential to become front-benchers. Will they become front-benchers? Potentially. Only time will tell.”
Scribe – At the risk of confirming Antia’s worries, I think ‘known’ is the key word there. Personally I’d rather have out MPs than ones who feel the urge to hide it.
Surely the most overrepresented group in parliament are lawyers? My view is that we want some degree of diversity, without necessarily going for proportionality. Despite a few stand-out performers, I think parliament is underrepresented on the moron front, that suits me. Also underrepresented on the poor single parent front – I think some of them would help, but what exactly would you do to achieve it?
beshakey “what exactly would you do to achieve it?” more referendums. Let the people decide, directly, many many many more things. Put trust in your fellow manwoman.
This really is becoming tedious. I’ve noticed there is a tendency here to ‘examine the splinter in soemone else’s eye, and ignore the rafter in your own’.
By this I mean – The ‘workers’ party and its allies have been in power since 1999 haven’t they?.
I have yet to encounter any provisions for even the basic womens needs in many of the bastions of progressiveness ie – creches.
Helen Clark herself is on record as having foregone the priviledge of having kids for her career, yet, has done very little to my mind to empower women further to engage in the workplace and have their kids close by.
Or if a woman works for a strongly unionised environment as well, what incentives for in-work provison are they? SImilarly, How many educational institutions that promote ‘gender issues’ but have no creche available.
So in short, it’s a cheap shot again, to accuse one party of institutionalised sexism, but ignore how it may occur under the actaul government of the past decade.
Teach me otherwise.
To risk repeating myself, but to make the point that you’re overgeneralising.
I said in this thread that I believe both Labour and National have selection bias which leads to lower representation by women.
I have said in another recent thread that I believe the labour movement struggles with gender pay equity issues.
I have said publicly that the current government has not advanced the equity of women in NZ as far or as fast as I believe they should have.
That said…
I believe the current government has advanced equity further than the previous government.
I believe that electing the current Key-led National Party into power would make less progress toward equity than another term of the current government.
I also believe that the current Key-led National Party shows signs that, at least in some issues, they would make decisions that lead to the rights of women going backwards.
This is not an endorsement of the current government, I have enormous problems with some of the things they have and haven’t done. It is, however, an expression of my fears for what a change of government would mean for women.
This into the Bat Cave from a wet Cat Woman – I suppose it’s not much better than the Labour Old Girls’ Club, who are nothing more than [if you want bigotry, vote John Key, don’t write that kind of stuff on our blog. SP]
Those of you saying ‘whoever is best for the job should be chosen’ are correct – but consider these two things – a women’s point of view is a valuable quality to have when you’re making polcies that affect a population that is 50% female and when you’re often making policy directed specifically at women… 2, given that there’s no reason to think men are inherently better at MPs than women, shouldn’t the ratio of men to women be close to even? even Key concedes National is male-dominated..
vto. I’m not arguing that it would be better to have any female as a Nat MP than any male… Im saying, given that women and men are just as suitable for the role, you’ve got to have question when the gender split is so uneven.
vto, if Key was running for Graham Henry’s job you might just have a leg to stand on, but no, you don’t, because he’s not.
monkey-boy, just because you’re thoroughly (and, I suspect, willfully) blind to advances for women over the last few years (think breastfeeding, paid parental leave, even WfF), don’t expect others to run about finding evidence for you! Why parade your ignorance?
ok ok. I disagree a little but there you go. sometimes I step out further in my posts than the point where I actually sit, so as to tease out and push a little, the thoughts expressed. Gotta go – the weekend beckons and there are flooded streets to row the dingy down. Til next time.
But Steve the point is , you are making an issue out of this for National alone, yet Labour (the governing party) have very similar ratios. So why is it a big deal for one and not the other? That just shows it;s a purely partisan dog whistle, another mindless attack for the sake of attack. As a blog supportive of Labour shouldn;t you be more concerned about their imbalance, or even have mentioned it?
I suspect the reasons for the imbalance across all parties is similar to that across the economy – women tend to have different priorities primarily family, so don’t tend to want to make the sacrifices required for senior political or business roles. I wouldn’t either.
However, look at most committees actually doing things in our society – voluntary social welfare groups, schools, sports – and I expect you will see the situation reversed.
Sorry Old Boy SP,my bad, and what race and number is that horse
“bigotry” running in? I want to put a ten each way thank you MADam.It’s a big ol try to win on a rain affected lake or track.Anyway conditions are well suited up for the pollie Mallard Duck so watch out for the biff in the corridor.. Quack off m8!
insider. Labour has 50% more female MPs (13 v 18) and nearly the same total number (48 v 49).
monkey-boy. People come and go, but I count 8 writers in the last month of which 4 are female. As far as I’m aware, that makes us the political blog with easily the most female contribution, apart from the feminist blogs.
Oh no, I am surrounded by standard females. Well I can tell you I am rather irate about owing Crown Law thousands after I brought unlawful discrimination ( male gender) proceedings against government agencies that claim to act in the best interests of the child. The HRRT struck me out, fobbed me and had the audacity too extort me for making a claim against the various breaches of my basic human rights….not to mention my children….blah…. blah….
Good stuff Scribe, Labour does win on the open homosexual front but from working at Parliament I’ve got a fair idea that there are a few gay guys in the National caucus. I’m not going to name them, this isn’t KiwiBlog after all, but you may be wrong in claiming that Labour wins in the gay MP stakes
But Steve et al, the point was not that some parties are better balnced than others (and the implied superiority), but that any imbalance was not a good thing. To quote SP:
“Im saying, given that women and men are just as suitable for the role, you’ve got to have question when the gender split is so uneven.”
So we get back to the question, why is the question asked for National but not for Labour?
I know DPF did some analysis of the possible MPs after the election. I wonder what would happen then. Which raises the point that the balance is somewhat influenced by you and me and other voters.
PS If you think 18 is 50% more than 13, you need some help wiht your mathematics.
I know DPF did some analysis of the possible MPs after the election. I wonder what would happen then. Which raises the point that the balance is somewhat influenced by you and me and other voters.
I just did a quick count. Of the 66 known National candidates only 15 are women. That is 24% – a lower proportion than they currently have in their caucus.
Until the list comes out we can’t know – but it doesn’t look any better than the current state of affairs, possibly worse.
Scribe, Labour does win on the open homosexual front but from working at Parliament I’ve got a fair idea that there are a few gay guys in the National caucus. I’m not going to name them, this isn’t KiwiBlog after all, but you may be wrong in claiming that Labour wins in the gay MP stakes
I’m not saying there aren’t homosexuals in the National caucus, but I think it’s safe to say they wouldn’t outnumber Labour’s 5+
And of course just “electing who’s best for the job” is a wonderful concept if you’re willing to ignore the huge influence of education, healthcare, and socio-economic position on who gets to become “best” for the job. Rich white heterosexual abled men in power forever, wot wot?
If there were only those five, would 10% be consistent with statistics? I thought the percentage was much lower than that
The stats are wildly variable and appear to correlate with the researcher’s political views. 10% is quite a common figure, as is 15%, as is 1%.
If we’re going to completely derail this thread, any chance we could derail it onto finding me a gingernut recipe that works? The one in my Edmonds is Not Good.
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AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL is awarding three New Zealand climate youth groups with its Ambassador of Conscience award, its highest recognition for human rights work, previously given to the likes of Nelson Mandela, Ai Weiwei and Malala Yousafzai. ...
On 14 September 2017, the pipeline that brings diesel, petrol, and jet fuel from Marsden Point Oil Refinery into Auckland ruptured. It leaked jet fuel into rural properties and stopped the transmission of fuels into Auckland for 10 days. The rupture ...
Victims Advocate Louise Nicholas - Labour should have brought in “specialist support” “When there is a complaint especially a serious complaint of sexual assault, the first thing that should have happened was specialist support brought in to ensure ...
Energy and Resources Minister Megan Woods says New Zealand is ‘not close’ to bringing in oil reserves after the attack on Saudi fields. “We would have to see prices rise by about $20 per barrel in order for some of those strategic reserves ...
New Zealand's new fresh water regulation rules will have no major impacts on the national economy, according to an independent report just out. The report by independent economic consultancy New Zealand Institute of Economic Research shows that dairying ...
Fish & Game New Zealand has welcomed the findings of a New Zealand Institute of Economic Research report, which rejects claims the Government’s freshwater proposals will have a significant economic impact. ...
The Council of Licensed Firearms Owners (COLFO) says the Government should take its proposed firearms legislation to the people with a touring Select Committee, as it just has with the Zero Carbon bill. ...
Water reforms and the long term sustainability of water will be a key focus at the Water New Zealand conference and expo this week (18-20 September) in Hamilton. ...
“Kiwi ex-smokers are mobilising against the Government’s plans to drastically limit vaping flavours. Flavours have been key to them quitting tobacco and they now just want other smokers to have the same chance,” says Jonathan Devery, co-owner ...
Oil company Tamarind Resources has reportedly halted drilling at its Tui oil field off the Taranaki coast after the first of the three planned wells came up dry and bad weather caused delays. ...
The New Zealand Taxpayers’ Union is calling on the left-wing campaign group “ActionStation” to front up and be transparent about how much taxpayer funding it takes from the Government to underwrite its activism activities. Earlier in the month, the Taxpayers’ ...
The ‘ Unplanned ’ movie is here and Family First has secured one of the first screenings in New Zealand tonight. ‘Unplanned’ brings an eye-opening look inside the abortion industry from a woman who was once its most passionate advocate. All ...
James Renwick claim that NZ is failing on climate change is valid, and since James has been receiving widespread media coverage that we outline most of it again here now as we gear up for the ‘Global climate change conference’ beginning next week. ...
Protestors will be outside the venue of the fourth hearing for Operation Burnham Inquiry on Monday morning from 8.30am to give a message to former and current military officers as they arrive to speak about the ongoing coverup of the 2010 attack on ...
The long-running campaign against purported Chinese “interference” in New Zealand’s political system intensified in the past week following a five-day visit to Beijing by opposition National Party leader Simon Bridges. ...
National's Deputy Leader Paula Bennett spent the week claiming a serious cover-up in the Prime Minister's office. She used parliamentary privilege to name three of the Prime Minister's closest advisors who, she says, knew about the sexual assault ...
Six months on from the worst terrorist attack in New Zealand history, Simon Shepherd asked Al Noor Mosque spokesperson Anthony Green how the Christchurch Muslim is community faring. ...
“The Game Animal Council is concerned that the Government’s second tranche of firearms legislation released today may contain unreasonable provisions that will unfairly impact hunters,” says Game Animal Council Chair Don Hammond. ...
Government policy work on the Carbon Zero bill highlights connections between climate change, carbon sequestration and agriculture. Water quality and allocation are also topical with the release of the Draft Policy Statement for Freshwater Management ...
DairyNZ Chief Executive Dr Tim Mackle is welcoming this afternoon’s announcement that consultation on Essential Freshwater has been extended by two weeks - but is calling on the Minister to go further. ...
DairyNZ chief executive Dr Tim Mackle is calling on the Government to move swiftly to extend the six-week timeframe of the Essential Freshwater consultation. ...
Immigration New Zealand could really benefit from an large investment of money, comments Ms June Ranson, chair of the New Zealand Association for Migration and Investment (NZAMI) , a leading voice in the immigration sector. “Instead of spending $25m ...
In recent times there has been no shortage of commentary regarding whistleblowers, with the proposed amendments to the Protected Disclosures Act 2000. These are aimed at strengthening the protection available to whistleblowers in New Zealand. That ...
Gun Control NZ strongly welcomes the comprehensive gun law reform bill and calls on all political parties to support it. Gun Control NZ encourages New Zealanders to let their MPs know they support this Bill, submit to the Select Committee, and ...
Federated Farmers agrees with most of the steps by government to protect people from illegal or irresponsible firearms use. But concerns about pest control and the effectiveness of a register remain. ...
Today at Parliament the NZ Drug Foundation released Taking control of cannabis: A model for responsible regulation, a new report that shows how we can take back control of cannabis from organised crime. ...
It was another wild week in our favourite island paradise, as our remaining celebrities continued their quest to win cash for charity. Tara Ward power ranks. The bells of change have rung on Celebrity Treasure Island, and we’re now knee deep in an individual game of trickery, ping-pongery, and Tim-Tammery. The two ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra Arthur Sinodinos will soon leave the Senate, and early next year take up the position of Australian ambassador in Washington. A former staffer and one-time public servant as well as a former minister, in this ...
The fishing industry is fighting back against claims its ad campaign is 'spin', saying protecting the Māui dolphin shouldn’t come at the expense of commercial fishers. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Melanie Walters, PhD candidate in music, University of Adelaide Review: XXX Neon Sign, composed by Dan Thorpe, Rumpus Theatre More than perhaps any other instrument, the grand piano symbolises the classical music canon and its rigid traditions. Placing such an instrument centre-stage ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Sebastian Leuzinger, Associate Professor, Auckland University of Technology CC BY-NDClimate Explained is a collaboration between The Conversation, Stuff and the New Zealand Science Media Centre to answer your questions about climate change.If you have a question you’d like an expert to ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Steven Conway, Senior Lecturer – Games and Interactivity, Swinburne University of Technology Two of the biggest tech companies in the world, Apple and Google, are launching cloud-based gaming services this year. Apple Arcade, due for release in two days, will ultimately go ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Andy Marks, Assistant Vice-Chancellor, Strategy and Policy, Western Sydney University “How good is Gladys Berejiklian?” Prime Minister Scott Morrison asked a jubilant crowd of Liberal supporters on the evening of her March 23 2019 state election win. Only as good as her ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Fiona Charlson, Conjoint NHMRC Early Career Fellow, The University of Queensland This story is part of Covering Climate Now, a global collaboration of more than 250 news outlets to strengthen coverage of the climate story. The Australian Medical Association (AMA) recently declared ...
Life insurance companies have been taken to task for being too slow to improve their culture and conduct by regulators, which appears set to lead to tougher regulation. ...
In this extract from a chapter called ‘Deep Time’ in Rebecca Priestley’s new memoir, Fifteen Million Years in Antarctica, Rebecca remembers her peculiar, legume-heavy, art-saturated childhood in Wellington. (And a note from the author: if anyone has a painting from Ruth Priestley’s Antarctic Dream series, Rebecca would love to hear from ...
The government is introducing a new employer-led work visa that it says will help plug shortages, reduce exploitation, and improve conditions for New Zealand workers. ...
The Spinoff’s cartoonist Toby Morris chats and draws with New Zealand’s doodlers in the webseries Two Sketches. In the fifth episode, Toby sits down with comic artist Ben Stenbeck. Two Sketches returns with another leisurely draw and a chat hosted by award-winning illustrator Toby Morris. In this episode, Toby chats with ...
The government's proposed clean up of waterways will not harm New Zealand's overall economy, a report by the New Zealand Institute of Economic Research (NZIER) has suggested. ...
New Netflix movie The Tall Girl was roundly mocked before it even came out. Josie Adams, a tall girl herself, reviews it.“You know that really, really, really tall girl you go to school with? The one that people call LeBron, Skyscraper, Patty long legs?”That’s Jodi, the 6-foot-1 protagonist of The ...
A spate of court cases around the world has highlighted a new kind of risk for carbon emitters, and the big investors that support them - expensive litigation. ...
The government's proposed clean up of waterways will not harm New Zealand's overall economy, a report by the New Zealand Institute of Economic Research (NZIER) has suggested. ...
The government's proposed clean up of waterways will not harm New Zealand's overall economy, a report by the New Zealand Institute of Economic Research (NZIER) has suggested. ...
Children, pregnant women and the elderly are the most at risk from extreme weather and heat – but the impact is already felt across every specialty of medicine. ...
Most KiwiSaver funds are managed by one of the big Australian banks, which create returns through investments in fossil fuels, human rights violations, tobacco and weaponry. With attitudes shifting towards sustainability, what can ordinary investors do?This month 16-year-old climate activist Greta Thunberg completed a journey across the Atlantic in a ...
A swathe of gloomy global headlines appear to have further dampened consumers' outlook about the economy but they are feeling more upbeat about their own personal finances. ...
Covering Climate Now: From CFCs to nuclear weapons, history has shown that the first step to eliminating a threat is to ban it, argues Thomas Nash.The Spinoff’s participation in Covering Climate Now is made possible thanks to the contributions of Spinoff Members. Join The Spinoff Members to help us do ...
Editor’s Note: Here below is a list of the main issues currently under discussion in New Zealand and links to media coverage.New Zealand Parliament Buildings, Wellington, New Zealand.Today’s content by Dr Bryce Edwards.Labour Party sexual assault allegations Richard Harman (Politik): Goodbye Labour – Hello Brand Jacinda Barry ...
Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has "called time" on opposing claims over sexual assault allegations against a Labour Party staffer being contested in public. ...
ByRNZ Pacific Taiwan’s President Tsai Ing-wen has said she “regrets and strongly condemns” the Solomon Islands’ decision to establish diplomatic relations with China. The Solomons cabinet made the decision yesterday after which Taiwan terminated its 36-year relationship with the Pacific country. Tsai said China’s promises of financial assistance ...
In our latest local elections 2019 race briefing (read the rest here), Josie Adams assesses the bastion of progressive virtue that is Dunedin/Ōtepoti.The Spinoff local election coverage is made possible thanks to The SpinoffMembers. For more about becoming a member and supporting The Spinoff’s journalism click here.Where?Dunedin, or Ōtepoti, is also known as “the ...
The Commerce Commission has been accused of miscalculating how much money the country's biggest fuel retailer Z Energy is making, in its initial report on competition in the sector. ...
A Canterbury startup is exposing medical equipment manufacturers’ deliberate one-use design tricks and proving that hospitals can reuse and recycle. There has been a lot of hype about the phasing out of plastic bags at supermarkets. But what about far more expensive items which only ever get used once and are ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Paul Wilkes, Senior Research Geophysicist, CSIRO At some point in recent weeks, a once-in-a-lifetime event happened for people at Greenwich in the United Kingdom. Magnetic compasses at the historic London area, known as the home of the Prime Meridian, were said to ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Alison McEwen, Head of Discipline of Genetic Counselling, Graduate School of Health, University of Technology Sydney If you have a question you’d like an expert to answer, send it to curiouskids@theconversation.edu.au.Why are some twins identical and some not? – Chloe, ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Marc Hudson, Researcher, University of Manchester Paddy Manning’s excellent account of the Australian Greens will not be the last word on Australia’s most successful third party, but will doubtless remain important and influential for many years to come. Manning’s exhaustive (but never ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Abby Mellick Lopes, Senior Lecturer in Design, Western Sydney University This story is part of Covering Climate Now, a global collaboration of more than 250 news outlets to strengthen coverage of the climate story. A recent report by the Greater Sydney Commission ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Eve Vincent, Senior Lecturer, Macquarie University “This is a bit controversial, we know that,” deputy prime minister Michael McCormick told the National Party’s federal council, which on the weekend voted for a national roll-out of cashless debit cards for anyone younger than ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Pat Ranald, Research fellow, University of Sydney The Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership has been touted as the best hope for keeping world trade flowing after the attacks on the World Trade Organisation. The WTO isn’t dead yet, but in a two-pronged attack, ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Sasha Grishin, Adjunct Professor of Art History, Australian National University In 1955, an enormous photographic exhibition, The Family of Man, challenged the world as to what it meant to be human. The curator, Edward Steichen, assembled 503 photographs by 273 photographers from ...
Old boys’ club 
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In times of hysteria about the “World coming to an end” and “rising sea levels” so-called ‘Journalists’ who can barely spell words longer than four letters are having a ball! Though the majority of the Public have worked out that manmade climate change is nothing short of pseudo-science, and the ...15 hours ago
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Dangerous Foes: For those readers of Bowalley Road who feel disposed to dismiss any prospect of an Israeli destabilisation of New Zealand politics, the example of the United Kingdom repays close attention. Ever since the election of Jeremy Corbyn as leader of the British Labour Party, the Israelis have sanctioned, funded and ...1 day ago
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by Don Franks It was a lovely sunny Wellington afternoon with blue skies above the beaches. In Courtenay Place, political activists packed out a stuffy upstairs room for an important meeting. The assembled pacifists, anarchists, communists and independent young radicals of Peace Action Wellington felt the need for a mission ...1 day ago
From the Wall Street Journal:Inside a room of the ornately decorated Hotel du Palais during last month’s Group of Seven summit in Biarritz, France, President Trump awaited a meeting with Egyptian President Abdel Fattah Al Sisi. Mr. Trump looked over a gathering of American and Egyptian officials and called out in ...2 days ago
The Brexit issue has certainly brought with it a series of apparently difficult constitutional issues, many of them concerning the respective roles of the executive and parliament. Most of them arise because of the unwillingness of MPs, despite their professions to the contrary, to be bound by a constitutional rarity ...4 days ago
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Those close to the Police Minister believe the initiative may be the result of Nash “seeing a great deal” on AliExpress. In a move that comes seemingly out of nowhere, Police Minister Stuart Nash announced this afternoon that he expects all frontline staff to don bearskin hats, famously worn by ...4 days ago
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Labour: 31 men, 18 women. Not exactly equitable, Steve.
NZ First: 6 men, 1 woman.
And do you really want to go down the “cross-dressing” line of discussion?
Oh, and the Nats have 13 female MPs, not 12, regardless of what you little picture says.
Yeah and they even have a little Asian one at the front, so that proves they’re not racist either.
Not racist, but definitely not inclusive. Wong is stuck on the side of the core group, almost like an afterthought.
What is the ratio of male/female of those who post articles on The Standard Steve?
I’d be fascinated by analysis of gender, ethnicity and religion across all the parties. While sexual orientation would be interesting too I suspect it would devolve into a rumour and innuendo session pretty quickly đ
it is all fine to say that national have got 12 (13? a reference would be nice) women and Labour have 18, but the important part is to look at the power that the women hold in the party.
I think that old boys club is well justified looking at the front bench.
SP, yesterday you said this …
“Now, you offer an objective argument that having a male PM is better for rugby than having a female one (note: you’re not arguing specific males or females, you’re arguing between genders). If you can’t but you assume it’s true anyway and so argue that we should have any male instead of any female as PM, then, by definition you’re a bigot a bigot holds a prejudice against a group of people in spite of a lack of supporting evidence.”
So following your own words, simply having any females as opposed to any males means you are a bigot. By your very own words SP you are a bigot.
Unless you were simply talking shit when you said that yesterday. So, either talking shit or a bigot.
vto, there are legitimate arguments (supporting evidence, shall I say) for representation of females in our parliament. Y’know, representation and all that PC nonsense?
Leave the long bow at home next time.
yl,
National have 13 (Katrina Shanks replaced Don Brash after this photo was taken). The list of MPs is here.
If you’re doing the comparison remember Steve Chadwick is a woman, it’s an easy mistake to make with a list of names.
black/white, woman/man.. who cares.. vote for who does the best job
Shouldn’t competence be the issue rather than gender – personally it doesn’t worry me at all who we employ as MPs as long as they do a good job.
The assumption that men or women aren’t capable of representing those of the opposite gender just as capably as someone of the same gender I find somewhat absurd.
edit – DJP beat me to it
vto,
If Parliament/the National Party caucus/the Labour party caucus was truly representative we’d expect to have roughly equivalent proportions for gender, ethnicity, and so on, as we find in the rest of the population.
If the proportion is not roughly equivalent there are two possible causes:
1) Randomness (I feel a reference to Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead coming on).
2) Some kind of selection bias.
I’m going for some kind of selection bias in the cases of Parliament, Labour and National. Are you arguing it’s randomness?
Do you think that analysis of representation is bigotry?
djp,
dont really want to open a can of worms here, but your comment only works if black, white, woman, and man are viewed and treated equally, and they are not.
I am still optimistic that one day in the future maybe, but not just yet. There is still are too many prejudices out there regarding minorities.
Anita,
While sexual orientation would be interesting too I suspect it would devolve into a rumour and innuendo session pretty quickly
Well, all we can say on that score is that Labour is grossly over-represented in its Caucus based on the known homosexuals and lesbians (at least five).
black/white, woman/man.. who cares.. vote for who does the best job
Now that’s a novel idea djp.
djp,
So, are you arguing that fact that the proportions are consistently far from the proportions in NZ as a whole is randomness?
Or that it’s selection bias but that it doesn’t matter?
MP, it aint no long bow. SP said it not me.
But I agree with you in that.. Men representing mens issues (example – that quietly but heavily dissed in certain halls matter of rugby). Women representing women issues. No problem. It is SP that seems to have the problem, namely consistency and hence credibility, in that he had a real problem with the idea that one of the country’s major sport and cultural icons, which is heavily male dominated, could be assisted by having a male in leadership. Which is completely contrary to this post of his concerning women being assisted by having women in leadership, namely within the nat caucus.
yl,
“I think that old boys club is well justified looking at
the front bench.”
Excerpt from Tim Ellis’ comment yesterday:
“National has two women on the front bench of ten, Anita: Judith Collins and Anne Tolley. Labour also only has two women on the front bench of ten: Helen Clark and Annette King.
I could make a cheap shot and ask what value Judith Tizard, Sue Moroney, Lynne Pillay, Jill Pettis and Lesley Soper bring to Labour’s caucus. They’re never going to be front-benchers are they? Actually, I suppose even saying that is a cheap shot, but I will live with it.”
All of the new women candidates National has selected for this election have the potential to become front-benchers. Will they become front-benchers? Potentially. Only time will tell.”
Scribe – At the risk of confirming Antia’s worries, I think ‘known’ is the key word there. Personally I’d rather have out MPs than ones who feel the urge to hide it.
Surely the most overrepresented group in parliament are lawyers? My view is that we want some degree of diversity, without necessarily going for proportionality. Despite a few stand-out performers, I think parliament is underrepresented on the moron front, that suits me. Also underrepresented on the poor single parent front – I think some of them would help, but what exactly would you do to achieve it?
beshakey “what exactly would you do to achieve it?” more referendums. Let the people decide, directly, many many many more things. Put trust in your fellow manwoman.
This really is becoming tedious. I’ve noticed there is a tendency here to ‘examine the splinter in soemone else’s eye, and ignore the rafter in your own’.
By this I mean – The ‘workers’ party and its allies have been in power since 1999 haven’t they?.
I have yet to encounter any provisions for even the basic womens needs in many of the bastions of progressiveness ie – creches.
Helen Clark herself is on record as having foregone the priviledge of having kids for her career, yet, has done very little to my mind to empower women further to engage in the workplace and have their kids close by.
Or if a woman works for a strongly unionised environment as well, what incentives for in-work provison are they? SImilarly, How many educational institutions that promote ‘gender issues’ but have no creche available.
So in short, it’s a cheap shot again, to accuse one party of institutionalised sexism, but ignore how it may occur under the actaul government of the past decade.
Teach me otherwise.
monkey-boy,
To risk repeating myself, but to make the point that you’re overgeneralising.
I said in this thread that I believe both Labour and National have selection bias which leads to lower representation by women.
I have said in another recent thread that I believe the labour movement struggles with gender pay equity issues.
I have said publicly that the current government has not advanced the equity of women in NZ as far or as fast as I believe they should have.
That said…
I believe the current government has advanced equity further than the previous government.
I believe that electing the current Key-led National Party into power would make less progress toward equity than another term of the current government.
I also believe that the current Key-led National Party shows signs that, at least in some issues, they would make decisions that lead to the rights of women going backwards.
This is not an endorsement of the current government, I have enormous problems with some of the things they have and haven’t done. It is, however, an expression of my fears for what a change of government would mean for women.
This into the Bat Cave from a wet Cat Woman – I suppose it’s not much better than the Labour Old Girls’ Club, who are nothing more than [if you want bigotry, vote John Key, don’t write that kind of stuff on our blog. SP]
Those of you saying ‘whoever is best for the job should be chosen’ are correct – but consider these two things – a women’s point of view is a valuable quality to have when you’re making polcies that affect a population that is 50% female and when you’re often making policy directed specifically at women… 2, given that there’s no reason to think men are inherently better at MPs than women, shouldn’t the ratio of men to women be close to even? even Key concedes National is male-dominated..
vto. I’m not arguing that it would be better to have any female as a Nat MP than any male… Im saying, given that women and men are just as suitable for the role, you’ve got to have question when the gender split is so uneven.
vto, if Key was running for Graham Henry’s job you might just have a leg to stand on, but no, you don’t, because he’s not.
monkey-boy, just because you’re thoroughly (and, I suspect, willfully) blind to advances for women over the last few years (think breastfeeding, paid parental leave, even WfF), don’t expect others to run about finding evidence for you! Why parade your ignorance?
Hah – going sort of off the topic here… But there is a discrimination topic more immediately relevant..
Human discrimination!
Why are the right so hypocritical about humanness? from 08wire.
Someone has actually done a micro example of the code I want to write to emulate the more stupid trolls
ok ok. I disagree a little but there you go. sometimes I step out further in my posts than the point where I actually sit, so as to tease out and push a little, the thoughts expressed. Gotta go – the weekend beckons and there are flooded streets to row the dingy down. Til next time.
But Steve the point is , you are making an issue out of this for National alone, yet Labour (the governing party) have very similar ratios. So why is it a big deal for one and not the other? That just shows it;s a purely partisan dog whistle, another mindless attack for the sake of attack. As a blog supportive of Labour shouldn;t you be more concerned about their imbalance, or even have mentioned it?
I suspect the reasons for the imbalance across all parties is similar to that across the economy – women tend to have different priorities primarily family, so don’t tend to want to make the sacrifices required for senior political or business roles. I wouldn’t either.
However, look at most committees actually doing things in our society – voluntary social welfare groups, schools, sports – and I expect you will see the situation reversed.
Sorry Old Boy SP,my bad, and what race and number is that horse
“bigotry” running in? I want to put a ten each way thank you MADam.It’s a big ol try to win on a rain affected lake or track.Anyway conditions are well suited up for the pollie Mallard Duck so watch out for the biff in the corridor.. Quack off m8!
insider. Labour has 50% more female MPs (13 v 18) and nearly the same total number (48 v 49).
monkey-boy. People come and go, but I count 8 writers in the last month of which 4 are female. As far as I’m aware, that makes us the political blog with easily the most female contribution, apart from the feminist blogs.
Oh no, I am surrounded by standard females. Well I can tell you I am rather irate about owing Crown Law thousands after I brought unlawful discrimination ( male gender) proceedings against government agencies that claim to act in the best interests of the child. The HRRT struck me out, fobbed me and had the audacity too extort me for making a claim against the various breaches of my basic human rights….not to mention my children….blah…. blah….
“insider. Labour has 50% more female MPs (13 v 18) and nearly the same total number (48 v 49).”
Or 27% vs 36.7% of the total respectively.
Perhaps not as many women run for selection as MPs in political parties ?
This would be proof positive that they are the more intelligent sex.
“insider. Labour has 50% more female MPs (13 v 18) and nearly the same total number (48 v 49).”
Or you could say 36.7% of Labour MP’s are female compared to 27% of National.
Good stuff Scribe, Labour does win on the open homosexual front but from working at Parliament I’ve got a fair idea that there are a few gay guys in the National caucus. I’m not going to name them, this isn’t KiwiBlog after all, but you may be wrong in claiming that Labour wins in the gay MP stakes
But Steve et al, the point was not that some parties are better balnced than others (and the implied superiority), but that any imbalance was not a good thing. To quote SP:
“Im saying, given that women and men are just as suitable for the role, you’ve got to have question when the gender split is so uneven.”
So we get back to the question, why is the question asked for National but not for Labour?
I know DPF did some analysis of the possible MPs after the election. I wonder what would happen then. Which raises the point that the balance is somewhat influenced by you and me and other voters.
PS If you think 18 is 50% more than 13, you need some help wiht your mathematics.
insider,
I just did a quick count. Of the 66 known National candidates only 15 are women. That is 24% – a lower proportion than they currently have in their caucus.
Until the list comes out we can’t know – but it doesn’t look any better than the current state of affairs, possibly worse.
Jimbo
Scribe, Labour does win on the open homosexual front but from working at Parliament I’ve got a fair idea that there are a few gay guys in the National caucus. I’m not going to name them, this isn’t KiwiBlog after all, but you may be wrong in claiming that Labour wins in the gay MP stakes
I’m not saying there aren’t homosexuals in the National caucus, but I think it’s safe to say they wouldn’t outnumber Labour’s 5+
5 homosexuals in Labour’s caucus doesn’t sound out of proportion to society. How many in Labour’s caucus? 49? 50?
So about 10 percent – could be on the conservative side if anything but certainly within the ballpark.
Strange thing to complain about really – Do you have an ideal number in mind?
And of course just “electing who’s best for the job” is a wonderful concept if you’re willing to ignore the huge influence of education, healthcare, and socio-economic position on who gets to become “best” for the job. Rich white heterosexual abled men in power forever, wot wot?
Felix,
Steve was the one who starting talking about quotas. And no, I don’t have an ideal number of homosexuals in mind.
If there were only those five, would 10% be consistent with statistics? I thought the percentage was much lower than that.
Scribe,
The stats are wildly variable and appear to correlate with the researcher’s political views. 10% is quite a common figure, as is 15%, as is 1%.
If we’re going to completely derail this thread, any chance we could derail it onto finding me a gingernut recipe that works? The one in my Edmonds is Not Good.
Well, that’s what you get for making gingernuts. Chocolate chippies any day of the week, Anita.
Found this the other day while looking for a malai kofta recipe:
supposed gingernut recipe
It may be of some use to you – I haven’t tried it but the first line about golden syrup cracked me up đ
How sexist are you Steve?
Why does gender or race matter?
Perhaps National pick the best people and they weren’t thinking, “Well we better have a certain number of woman/Maori/Asians/ gays, etc etc etec.
When you start picking on race, then you are racist.
So National has a bunch of white men as their MP’s, do you have a problem with that?
I don’t have a problem with that. Parties can run any candidates they like.
But if I were a National Party strategist I might be wondering if there are large sections of the population who do have a problem with it.
(And maybe they don’t – just saying…)