Ombudsman to investigate John Key’s dirty politics communications

Written By: - Date published: 8:42 am, September 27th, 2016 - 91 comments
Categories: Abuse of power, accountability, Deep stuff, democracy under attack, Dirty Politics, john key, Media, national, Politics, same old national, spin, the praiseworthy and the pitiful - Tags: ,

Key-Slater-Farrar

The new Ombudsman has decided to investigate whether John Key should disclose communications that he had with Cameron Slater and David Farrar during the days of Dirty Politics.  Congratulations to Felix Marwick for his insistence that the law should be adhered to and observed.

From Newshub:

The Chief Ombudsman will investigate the Prime Minister over his refusal to release details regarding his, and his office’s contact with right-wing bloggers David Farrar and Cameron Slater.

Back in early 2014 Newstalk ZB requested records of all such contacts that had occurred over a two year period.

John Key’s office declined to release details, saying to do so would require substantial research and collation and also that some communications may have been made in Mr Key’s capacity as an MP and leader of the National Party.

Now, almost two and a half years after a formal complaint was laid with the Ombudsman about the matter, Chief Ombudsman Peter Boshier has announced he will investigate the complaint.

Of course it will be dismissed by the right as irrelevant and of interest to the left wing twitterati only.  But this issue goes to fitness to rule.  After all you would expect the Prime Minister to comply with New Zealand Law and be up front to the use he has put the state’s resources to.

Key has admitted playing political games with the OIA in the past and has acknowledged delaying releases to the last minute in the hope of taking the steam out of a story.  There is a clear requirement to respond as soon as possible and in any event not later than 20 working days after receipt of the request.  So this approach to OIA requests is not a unique example.

From this Radio New Zealand article Key is quoted as saying:

Sometimes we wait the 20 days because, in the end, Government might take the view that’s in our best interest to do that”.

Then Chief Ombudsman Dame Beverley Wakem disagreed.

It’s pretty clear. It couldn’t be much clearer than that… As soon as you have made a decision as to whether you’re going to respond to the request or how you’re going to respond to it, you ought to convey that.”

And Annette King described the situation accurately with this statement:

There’s been a growing arrogance by this Government that they can do exactly what they like with official information… it borders on trying to undermine a fundamental tenet of democracy”.

Key’s defence, that he may have met with them as leader of the National Party and not as Prime Minister, is what you would expect him to stay.  But it ought to be up to him to establish that this is the case and even if some communications are protected this does not remove the obligation to disclose the remaining communications.  And as pointed out by Idiot Savant it should be a straight forward process to determine in what capacity Key has communicated with Slater or Farrar.

While the PM’s office is correct that he wears multiple hats, and information held in the capacity as leader of the National party or as an MP is not “official information” under the Act, he has not established that the information is held in such a capacity. One of the key allegations of Nicky Hager’s “Dirty Politics” … is that bloggers were being briefed by staff employed by Ministerial Services – that is, paid by the public. If that is the case, then that would make them definitively official information. In the case of the Prime Minister personally, the status of any briefing would have to be judged from the context in which it was given e.g. whether it was given on a day normally reserved for constituency or personal business, or during his “normal” office hours as Prime Minister. It can also be judged from the content e.g. if it is regarding official information or any OIA request then it must clearly be given in the capacity as Prime Minister, because the leader of the National Party or John Key MP do not “hold” such information and do not process such requests.

As for the claim of substantial research and collation claim in these days of computers such a process should not be difficult.

The OIA process needs to be reviewed.  The Ombudsman’s office needs to be funded properly so that complaints can be dealt with quickly and efficiently.  And sanctions need to be built into the process so that abuses of the system are punished.

91 comments on “Ombudsman to investigate John Key’s dirty politics communications ”

  • Comments are now closed

  1. Nick 1
    27 September 2016 at 9:00 am

    It would be great to find him guilty of being the scumbag that he is and he is forced to resign.

    • shorts 1.1
      27 September 2016 at 9:02 am

      We don’t need a Ombudsman’s report to know he’s a scumbag… and no way will he ever resign over something as trivial as breaking the rules

      • Garibaldi 1.1.1
        27 September 2016 at 9:08 am

        As usual it is too little, too late. Key should have been buried at the release of Dirty Politics, and probably would have been if it wasn’t for the bloody media.

        • Lanthanide 1.1.1.1
          27 September 2016 at 9:31 am

          Probably would have been if it didn’t land during the election campaign, and got stirred around with all the Kim Dotcom rubbish at the same time.

          • Matthew Whitehead 1.1.1.1.1
            27 September 2016 at 1:18 pm

            Yeah, in retrospect that was way too good of a defense for the right-wing. Helped boost sales of the book, which I can completely understand, but didn’t really help its allegations have more impact.

          • Chuck 1.1.1.1.2
            27 September 2016 at 4:06 pm

            Mostly it was a beltway issue, along with the activist left who screamed blue murder, while most everyone else shrugged their shoulders.

            I do agree the Dotcom debacle had played a part, but even without Dotcom “dirty politics” would not of had any legs with the wider public.

            So lets see the texts…heck maybe this is the silver bullet that Labour have been searching for 8+ years! or more likely it will be some boring beltway talk.

            And while on this topic, I would think text messages between certain Labour MP’s and union officials would be pretty entertaining (and very colourful) 🙂

    • mosa 1.2
      27 September 2016 at 12:58 pm

      The fact that it took two and a half years to get to the point where this is now being [ONLY INVESTIGATED] means that regardless of the outcome even finding he was and is compromised like always he will have an excuse that he was not PM at the time and only the National party leader.

      The good NZ people bought all this last time and will do so again because the bulk of the population does not give a toss what he does and had the chance to show their displeasure on September 20th 2014 and he is still with us.

      He is not and never will be accountable and neither are our officials no matter who they are because they wont dare challenge him or this Government and Sir John Key knows it.

      Dirty politics is the new politics the grubbier the better and New Zealanders love Sir John even more because of it and will vote for more , much more at the next Election.

  2. dukeofurl 2
    27 September 2016 at 9:28 am

    There is a history of the PMs txts to Slater not being used as lines of inquiry when we look back
    Dec 2014
    ‘Text messages between the prime minister and a right-wing blogger look set to be excluded from a spy watchdog investigation into a leaked report about the SIS.’
    http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/politics/pms-texts-to-slater-excluded-from-investigation/

    The web of hats continues

  3. Sorrwerdna 3
    27 September 2016 at 9:28 am

    Absolutely nothing to see here -move on.

  4. Scott 4
    27 September 2016 at 9:29 am

    I’d be interested to see the communications between MPs and Dotcom / Hagar / Rawshank.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 4.1
      27 September 2016 at 9:35 am

      Then request them; if you can drag yourself away from your pet goat, that is.

      • Scott 4.1.1
        27 September 2016 at 10:56 am

        Unfortunately I don’t think the OIA applies to MPs, only Ministers and Government Departments and the like.

        • One Anonymous Bloke 4.1.1.1
          27 September 2016 at 11:06 am

          Oh well, you’d better stick with dishonesty and bad faith then.

        • mosa 4.1.1.2
          27 September 2016 at 1:02 pm

          The OIA is toothless anyway and just a damage control device for Sir John and the National Government.

          • One Anonymous Bloke 4.1.1.2.1
            27 September 2016 at 1:56 pm

            Yes, they can only pass information and/or make recommendations to the appropriate authorities. Whether or not the current incumbent will act as the National Party’s creature remains to be seen.

            • Chris 4.1.1.2.1.1
              27 September 2016 at 2:03 pm

              It’d be a big deal, though, if the Ombudsman said the communication was official information and Key gave the finger. The inference would be pretty telling.

      • Groundhog 4.1.2
        27 September 2016 at 2:22 pm

        You miss the point. This is a true non-issue. No-one cares. I don’t give a rats about the communication between MP’s and Dotcom/Hager etc, and neither do I give a rats about the communication between Key and Slater. If you seriously think the only dirty politics is played by the right, you’re even more deluded than I thought. The entire ‘Dirty Politics’ saga was itself ‘dirty politics’, but by the left. I do, however, care about your goat.

    • James 4.2
      27 September 2016 at 9:36 am

      Oh yes – that would be extremely interesting. Never will of course.

      • One Anonymous Bloke 4.2.1
        27 September 2016 at 9:39 am

        Then make some OIA requests. You never will of course. It’s his little goaty eyes staring into yours.

        • James 4.2.1.1
          27 September 2016 at 11:16 am

          That’s because I understand the rules that I cannot request if MP’s.

          Perhaps if you educated yourself and got past your obvious goat obsession then you won’t keep making such stupid comments.

          • One Anonymous Bloke 4.2.1.1.1
            27 September 2016 at 12:17 pm

            Oh, I know that the unnamed MPs you’re busy smearing don’t have to release the information that doesn’t exist. The point is how convenient for you that is.

            By comparison, Dear Leader is now under official scrutiny, and no amount of your bullshit will change that.

            Choke on it.

          • Matthew Whitehead 4.2.1.1.2
            27 September 2016 at 1:23 pm

            Like the Right hasn’t been trying to get their hands on anything like your proposed hypothetical communications using whatever shady methods they can think of. If the information existed, even if the Right didn’t have proof, they would be hinting at it in order to try and force a denial so they could release whatever flimsy evidence they did have and force the opposition to answer questions about it in the media.

            So I guess either nothing incriminating exists, (which would be my suspicion) or nobody on the Right has managed to get their hands on it. (which you’re welcome to continue believing I guess? lol)

            • framu 4.2.1.1.2.1
              28 September 2016 at 8:12 am

              exactly –

              some people seem to have forgotten that hagars book didnt come out of the blue and was only documented confirmation of what had been suspected and rumored for years.

              It was no surprise to anyone who was aware of the rumors and suspicion

              Its strange how the mere idea of two groups talking to each other equals the same thing in some minds – unless your projecting of course.

              but then were talking of people who still try and claim that what all parties have done for years is the same as running a secret attack squad out of the leaders office – more projection me thinks

    • Anne 4.3
      27 September 2016 at 10:07 am

      Dotcom? Rawshark had nothing to do with Dotcom and would certainly not sought communications with him. You have mixed up your scandals.

      • One Anonymous Bloke 4.3.1
        27 September 2016 at 10:09 am

        Scott is desperately whinging but but but Lllllaaaabbbboooouuuurrrr, a false equivalence at best.

      • Chuck 4.3.2
        27 September 2016 at 10:57 am

        Hmm it seems Anne may know a little more about Rawshark then she is letting on?

        With all this “inside information” on who communicated with whom.

        • One Anonymous Bloke 4.3.2.1
          27 September 2016 at 11:07 am

          Keep telling yourself that. Anything but face the fact that Dear Leader has come to the attention of the authorities.

          • mosa 4.3.2.1.1
            27 September 2016 at 1:07 pm

            Anonymous Sir John could come to the attention of the Police and it will still mean diddly squat.

            He is untouchable and the great New Zealand people will still vote for him in a years time

            • One Anonymous Bloke 4.3.2.1.1.1
              27 September 2016 at 1:21 pm

              Then you have nothing to worry about eh.

              • mosa …
                27 September 2016 at 1:40 pm

                Hey Anonymous Bloke i despise the man but i have given up on kiwis coming to their senses and to start to smell the stench that comes from this government and its leader.

                • One Anonymous Bloke …
                  27 September 2016 at 1:51 pm

                  Fair enough. However, polls say his approval rating is well below 50%, so don’t despair.

                  • Scott …
                    27 September 2016 at 5:52 pm

                    You’re right. That is low by his standards. Still, it could be worse. He might be celebrating breaking into double figures.

                    Let’s see whajt the next poll says. Maybe Helen will be back to be canvassed?

                    • One Anonymous Bloke …
                      27 September 2016 at 8:05 pm

                      As a Green voter I think you’re sad, pathetic, and predictable, and I can still remember Helen Clark’s preferred PM rating before she became Prime Minister.

                      If I thought popularity was a measure of competence I’d be in the gutter with you.

                    • Scott []
                      27 September 2016 at 10:45 pm

                      You raise it, not me. A green voter, oh dear. A smear of environmentism overlayed with homeopathy and hate. I’m sorry.

  5. Sam C 5
    27 September 2016 at 9:31 am

    Who cares? I mean, really, who cares? There will be absolutely nothing of public interest that comes of this, I can tell you right now.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 5.1
      27 September 2016 at 9:36 am

      I note that you are happy for the next Prime Minister to use taxpayers’ money to attack you.

    • Wensleydale 5.2
      27 September 2016 at 2:48 pm

      If you can’t see why the Prime Minister refusing to release public information because “it’s not in his best interests to do so” is inherently dodgy… then you must live in a shoebox in a hole in the ground. Either that, or someone’s suctioned out your brain and replaced it with custard.

  6. s y d 6
    27 September 2016 at 9:47 am

    Given my experience with the Ombudsman, we can expect:

    6 months before anyone is assigned to investigate the case
    6 months to-ing a fro-ing and explaining the same points over and over again
    Rebutting spurious and factually incorrect information supplied by the other party
    A circular process of waiting around and chasing up, only to be advised after a year that the investigator no longer works for the Ombusman
    Being given the run around and advised that they are very understaffed and very busy.
    Case being assigned to another office in another city and a new investigator making contact saying they will review and be in touch

    repeat until you get the message

    • mosa 6.1
      27 September 2016 at 1:24 pm

      S Y D thanks for putting it in perspective.
      The whole Ombudsman office is just as a waste of time and money and totally irrelevant like the Minister and ministry of Womans affairs and their silence on equal pay for woman and lack of support for Plunket and the important role it plays in helping new Mothers.

      • Matthew Whitehead 6.1.1
        27 September 2016 at 2:12 pm

        Well, they’re not completely useless once they actually get to your request, but mostly what they can do is compel the Minister to release the information if they agree with your complaint.

        The real obstacle is getting through the wait, which is unreal because the Ombudsman has been systemically underfunded by governments of both stripes for quite some time now, because, to engage in allegory, wolves don’t like to give support to sheepdogs.

        • Chris 6.1.1.1
          27 September 2016 at 2:57 pm

          Don’t think the Ombudsman can compel a minister to release information. Unless by “compel” you mean the very strong convention to abide by an Ombudsman’s opinion.

          In this case, if after the Ombudsman said the correspondence should be released, Key then told the Ombudsman to get stuffed, there’d be a report to Parliament and the public pressure on Key would be immense. It’d all be about what’s he got to hide.

          The timing of an Ombudsman’s conclusion is an issue, although Boshier’s pretty determined to clear the backlog. He may even give priority to this investigation. It’d be good if the complaint was upheld before the election.

          • Draco T Bastard 6.1.1.1.1
            27 September 2016 at 4:50 pm

            If the Ombudsman said that it had to be released then Key would be legally required to release it. By not releasing it he would be committing a crime.

            • Chris 6.1.1.1.1.1
              27 September 2016 at 5:02 pm

              Really? I thought the Ombudsman’s powers regarding the OIA were recommendatory only.

              • Draco T Bastard …
                27 September 2016 at 6:01 pm

                The law requires that information be released unless there is a reason not to. ATM, John Key and the Office of the PM are saying that there’s a reason not to. If the Ombudsman finds that the information be released then Key and the Office of the PM will be legally required to release it.

                If they don’t then it probably gets passed on to the police by the Ombudsman.

                • Chris …
                  27 September 2016 at 6:23 pm

                  You’re kidding, right?

                  • Draco T Bastard …
                    27 September 2016 at 6:52 pm

                    About what?

                    • Chris …
                      27 September 2016 at 7:58 pm

                      I’d just always thought the powers of the Ombudsman were recommendatory only. Just looked it up. I can’t see where a minister giving the finger to the Ombudsman following an opinion to release official information is an offence that the cops would be interested in. The whole of Part 5 looks relevant.

                      http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1982/0156/latest/DLM65654.html

                      So if Key told the Ombudsman to get stuffed then it looks like Key then has to issue an order in council that says he doesn’t have to release it. Then that order in council can become the subject of court proceedings.

                      As I said earlier the convention to abide by the Ombudsman’s recommendation to release official information is a strong one. Still, if the correspondence is damning enough, and especially if the timing of the opinion isn’t good in terms of when the election is I wouldn’t put it past Key to do this. Then perhaps by the time he loses in court he’s been re-elected so the problem then for him would be much easier – defending calls to resign rather than losing perhaps crucial votes.

                      I would’ve imagined that for the cops to get involved there would’ve to be a criminal offence committed somewhere which it seems there isn’t. Looks like it’s all in Part 5 of the OIA.

                  • Matthew Whitehead …
                    27 September 2016 at 10:20 pm

                    There’s no formal law that Ombudsman’s recommendations have to be followed iirc, but it’s pretty much a constitutional convention at this point.

  7. Tristan 7
    27 September 2016 at 10:14 am

    oh this was also my complaint. Have been getting updates from the ombudsmen which I am putting up here:

    https://www.fyi.org.nz/request/1910-communication-with-bloggers

    • Richard Rawshark 7.1
      27 September 2016 at 11:14 am

      Looks like John thought he couldn’t be touched as PM and was orchestrating a nice little attack via the blog army. Interesting Tristan and I dare say you will be a shining example of someone who they refuse eventually, or you might go missing.

      I don’t trust Key. He’s got the SIS, GCSB, Agent 007Max, just check out the window for a black car with tinted windows mate!!!

      But seriously that is so ~obvious, in that you struck something BAD!~

      Hence the massive delays and how useless the ombudsman is when National are in power funnily enough.

      • Matthew Whitehead 7.1.1
        27 September 2016 at 9:35 pm

        To be fair, until this term of government the Ombudsman hadn’t ruled that Ministers need to be able to prove they’re wearing a hat that isn’t OIA-able when they decline an OIA request using that excuse, so Key would have been correct in assuming that at the time he started co-ordinating with bloggers. It is delicious justice, of course, if this complaint does get upheld.

        Oh, and Tristan, you should consider re-submitting and asking specifically if the PM’s office co-ordinated with David Farrar and Cameron Slater in any ministerial capacity, and if so, about what subjects and on what dates. That would probably remove the justification of it requiring unreasonable collation because it allows them to narrowly answer regarding those two using a much smaller dataset, but will likely still catch any misbehaviour that exists.

  8. Wyndham 8
    27 September 2016 at 10:27 am

    Where is Jason Ede ?

  9. Richard Rawshark 9
    27 September 2016 at 11:20 am

    this threads making me sick, can we have an agreement at the standard between us that horrible sick people like these have more fitting images that are not so , upsetting.

    Surely we can photoshop something less evil because it’s emanating out from that photo and seeping into my pores, and my dogs have started growling.

    Please.

    • Guerilla Surgeon 9.1
      27 September 2016 at 11:28 am

      Actually, picking the worst possible photograph of someone you don’t particularly like to be included an article about that person is a long and honourable tradition. I just think they probably could have found a worse one to be honest.

  10. nzsage 10
    27 September 2016 at 11:29 am

    An Ombudsman investigation?

    At best a limp wristed slap on the wrist or more likely another whitewash.

    As much as I’d like to see Key held accountable, it will turn into a vindication of his actions.

    You heard it here first!

    • Garibaldi 10.1
      27 September 2016 at 12:06 pm

      I’m afraid you are dead right nzsage. It will only reach the media if he is vindicated anyway ! Which of course will make Hosking and co. even more unbearable.

  11. WILD KATIPO 11
    27 September 2016 at 11:32 am

    Something I wrote in 2014 on The Daily Blog,… may help to jog a few memories.

    …………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..

    It would be wise to remember we are dealing with two issues here.

    One …the political issue and that of the IMP , and two…the appalling and illegal treatment of a person in this country.

    Of the former…it is easily divided into two areas of govt and media attack.

    ………………………………………………………………………………………..

    1) The obvious ideology of the neo liberals in action in order to derail any chance of social democratic traction and reform. This was borne out in the Kelvin Davis saga whereby the National PM even advised his own National supporters to vote for their arch enemies Labour to destroy Hone Hawiras seat of Te Tai Tokerau.

    Totally unheard of and unprecedented.

    Had the IMP gained seats in parliament , we could very well have been looking at a govt of the Left. With people such as Laila Harre ,John Minto ,Hone Hawira among others.

    The neo liberals knew this was incredibly dangerous to Keys implementation of the TTPA and USA hegemony.

    …………………………..

    2) The media harassment and negative reporting on Dotcom and the IMP.

    Graphically displayed by Brook Sabin and the reporter from TV1 who colluded in a devious set up of the IMP launch . Their goal was not to report on policy at all but use it as an opportunity to smear Dotcom in particular.

    Many of the photo shots were in fact staged and didn’t represent what actually took place at all. The manner in which the reporting- if one could call it that – was conducted resembled more the European Paparazzi than any semblance of responsible journalism.

    ………………………………………………………………………………………..

    Brook Sabins father at that time was Mike Sabin. Mike Sabin was the MP for Northland. Hone Hawira held the Te Tai Tokerau seat.

    ………………………………………………………………………………………..

    And now the for the ever deeper level of skulduggery carried out under the auspices of the John Key govt by which John Key himself played an important role.

    1) Under instruction from the Minster of Immigration the SIS was told to reverse its decision to deny Kim Dotcom entry into NZ.

    2) This was done around the time when the chief of the American NSA arrived into this country in the early hours of the morning to meet with high ranking NZ officials . John Campbell ran a programme that clearly demonstrated that the timing and the issue almost certainly was in regard to entrapping Kim Dotcom in NZ for the purposes of extradition to the USA.

    3) John Key from a shortlist chose Ian Fletcher for the job of head of the GSCB. Despite more qualified submitter’s for that job , Fletcher was chosen by Key. Key deny’s he even knew Ian Fletcher… yet later admitted they were boyhood friends and that a few hours before Fletcher was chosen they actually had breakfast together. After the police raid on Kim Dotcoms home it was found to have been an illegal operation and Fletcher resigned from the GSCB . To this day Fletcher refuses to discuss details about his role while head of the GSCB.

    4) Incidentally …the Hollywood Motion Picture Industry has had an important part in drafting up the foundations of the TTPA deal , which is then submitted to Congress before it was ratified. It was the Hollywood Motion Picture Industry that used the FBI to charge Dotcom with copyright , – and if that wouldn’t pass the criteria for extradition – trumped up charges of criminal money laundering and conspiracy to commit a crime was added. It was the Hollywood Motion Picture Industry that used the copyright law change of 2010 so that copyright infringement became an issue of ‘national security’ … however copyright laws are different in each country and as it is a civil case not a criminal case …and as New Zealand is a sovereign nation …there are no grounds for extradition.

    5) It has been established that at the time prior to Dotcoms raid by the NZ police , that 88 people had been illegally spied on by the GSCB. Dotcom was one of them.

    6) Because of this fact … John Key moved to have laws amended after the fact. Both in the SIS and the GSCB. One can see quite clearly that it is simply shifting the goal posts to hold the advantage against Dotcom , – whilst still using an illegal former situation to carry out the campaign against Dotcom on behest of the USA’s FBI – who lack jurisdiction in this sovereign nation.

    7) At the time of the raid … advise given to the Police Commissioner was that it was legal. It was later found that the warrant for the whole raid was invalid – thus making the raid illegal – as was the surveillance carried out against Dotcom.

    8) Breaches of legal protocol and entitlements were denied Dotcom . An example was he was denied access to a phone to contact his lawyers . Later it was found many of the police actions such as impounding his vehicles , freezing his assets and finances and other items was illegal.

    ………………………………………………………………………………………..

    This is but a small list of the abuses leveled against Kim Dotcom and his colleagues . In this incidence , it is not a criminal case at all but a civil case brought against people by a foreign power in collusion with this govt for geopolitical purposes. In this case , the ultimate motive for this geopolitical co operation was to safeguard the dubious interests of the very group that drafted up the conditions for the TTPA – the Hollywood Movie Industry. And ,- being a civil case – hardly grounds for extradition at all.

    ………………………………………………………………………………………..

    Another related set of issues is the manner in which John Key lied to the NZ public about the XKEYSCORE programme.

    It was not until it was exposed by The Moment of Truth meeting at the town hall that we learnt that in fact , being part of the 5 eyes spy network , we had indeed been part of the international spy rings surveillance programme.

    We leant that there was the XKEYSCORE programme in operation from Edward Snowden – and it was this very data that Glen Greenwald used to not only prove but bring the NSA of America to court – a matter which found that the NSA had indeed been indulging in illegal spying and data collation of the American public.

    Before this became public …. John Key labelled Glen Greenwald merely as one of ‘Dotcoms little henchman ‘… a desperate rear guard action to mask and obfuscate the existence of the XKEYSCORE programme. We further learnt that in fact this country has 3 servers dedicated to the 5 eyes spy networks in this country.

    After this was made public… John Key even threatened national security by dragging out irrelevant data against the wishes of the SIS to try and validate his lies about there being no mass surveillance… which , – not only were they irrelevant and failed to have the desired effect – only served to force him to admit that yes , – indeed the programme does exist.

    Furthermore…that not only do they exist ….but several months later there was apolitical storm with China and several Pacific Island nation over New Zealand’s role on spying on foreign govt’s . It turns out that this country is used to spy on country’s that others such as the USA cannot gain access to. And this includes our biggest Free Trade Agreement partner …..China.

    So in conclusion… if this sham of a a circus of extraditing several individuals on bogus trumped up charges – charges that were ramped up for political purposes and originating in a foreign nation which has no natural jurisdiction on these shores – goes ahead …. it will demonstrate that not only our democratic sovereignty has been affected by this subversive political activity but also our very legal system as well…..particularly when viewed against the backdrop of the type of political dark tactics that have been used in the Dotcom affair.

    What we are witnessing now playing out in our courts is not about just one individual’s plight …

    But is in fact all about we as a sovereign nation , – in that it is more about us and our legal and democratic system in all its totality being put on trial before our very own courts , – and infinitely less about Kim Dotcom.

    What we are witnessing today is the slide into the loss of national sovereignty and the subservience to foreign rule. What happens to Kim Dotcom has now become the litmus test of that loss of national sovereignty and the gauge informing us of just how far down that road we have let ourselves travel.

    • Craig H 11.1
      27 September 2016 at 1:23 pm

      A minor point, but the SIS do not have the power to deny someone entry into NZ (or a visa). They can only provide information (which may include recommendations) – Immigration NZ make those decisions. The Minister is empowered to grant anyone a visa at any time, although this is not something they generally do that often.

  12. save nz 12
    27 September 2016 at 12:33 pm

    Ombudsman to investigage John Key’s dirty politics communications – hopefully not a white wash.

  13. fisiani 13
    27 September 2016 at 12:44 pm

    A complaint has been made.
    It will be investigated.
    The investigation will obviously report no wrong doing.
    Another pathetic attempt to smear Honest John fails again.

    • Paul 13.1
      27 September 2016 at 12:47 pm

      Honest John for President of Venezuela!

    • Chris 13.4
      27 September 2016 at 1:43 pm

      The investigation isn’t about wrongdoing. It’s about whether correspondence is official information or not. If the information has to be released, and going by the filthy nasty misogynist manner in which those other filthy mates of yours communicate, what are the odds there’ll be some interesting exchanges exposed? The question then will be how close is Key to all that filth? That’s when the real fun will begin.

      • WILD KATIPO 13.4.1
        27 September 2016 at 2:19 pm

        I think its safe to say that political manipulation using official govt depts to the advantage of the incumbent govt against the opposition such as was done to Phil Goff using the SIS falls nothing short of corrupting the democratic process.

        We are not children to be vexed by mere words , and Keys deceitful use of terms to deflect from wrongdoing -and whether he chooses to try to deflect by what …’ capacity’ or ‘ his office’ … or any other twisting of words and definitions would be met by most unbiased and balanced adults with scorn and derision.

        Clearly there has been unwarranted breaches of govt protocols to political advantage here. And that goes above and beyond governmental privileges when it starts to undermine our democracy.

        And this is where Key has usurped that framework of democracy by skirting around using ‘definitions’,… any lawyer or barrister worth his salt could tear that apart in court .

        And in the case of Dirty Politics and in particular the whole illegality of the Dotcom affair – and Keys retrospective changing of the laws to essentially cover what was – illegal , and involving the SIS and GSCB , – constitutes a breach and abuse of delegated political power against the citizens of this country.

        Because ultimately , whether someone wants to use the deflections ‘ in his capacity of this or that ‘ ,… he or she as PM is still answerable for the motives and objectives as to just why and by whom that official information was used.

        It is not good enough to blame ‘his office’ or his capacity as ‘ Leader of the National party’ when in fact he is still the Prime Minister of New Zealand.

        No matter how hard he try’s to deflect .

    • Matthew Whitehead 13.5
      27 September 2016 at 2:01 pm

      All hail dear leader! lol

      Troll harder next time Fisi.

    • Wensleydale 13.6
      27 September 2016 at 2:51 pm

      Thank you for that, Lewis Prothero, the Voice of London.

    • Draco T Bastard 13.7
      27 September 2016 at 4:25 pm

      Your ‘Honest John’ is the countries most serial liar.

  14. WILD KATIPO 14
    27 September 2016 at 1:10 pm

    Another article by WAKE UP NEW ZEALAND ;

    Wake Up Kiwi
    John Key: “You Want To Spy? You Make The “Business” Plan, I’ll Change The Law!”
    September 16 2014 | From: AotearoaAWiderPerspective

    When David Farrar on Kiwi blog alleges that Sir Bruce Ferguson Agrees with John Key and that the GCSB never collected whole sale data on all New Zealanders and that is saying something because Ferguson is not a fan of the Prime Minister and therefor it must mean Kim Dotcom, Glen Greenwald and Snowden must be full of shit he is doing what he has always done: Lying Spinning.

    You see, Sir Bruce Ferguson was the GCSB chef until 2011. By the time the GCSB illegally spied on Kim Dotcom he had left the building and it was Hugh Wolfensohn who was acting director at the time who had “authorized” the illegal probes. Not just on Kim Dotcom but also on around 80 other New Zealanders.

    What Snowden is testifying too is the fact that John Key presided over the development of a “Business” plan for whole sale data collection in 2012 AFTER Sir Bruce Ferguson had left and before the date of 8 May 2013 at which John Key presented the change in law required to enable wholesale spying legally

    Mr Key said cyber attacks in 2011 led the Cabinet to approve an investigation into wider cyber protection which he stopped in March 2013.

    Wider cyber protection I hope you will agree with me is just a spin name for wholesale spying on an entire population.

    Leading up to the “Moment of truth” event John Key at first denied that there was wholesale data gathering going but that is not the issue here.

    The issue is that the Prime minister of this country was involved in organizing wholesale spying on his population by a FOREIGN and very controversial spying agency (NSA) with the help of a NSA financed group (GCSB) to whom he appointed a hand picked dare I say it HENCHMAN and former schoolmate Ian Fletcher in what Sir Bruce Ferguson said was a very disturbing manner at a time this was highly illegal and without telling his population.

    He also told his population that there would be not way the amendment to the law would enable anybody to collect wholesale data while he knew very well that it would.

    The amendment was passed under urgency which is essentially a very nasty way of bullying laws into existence without due process in the manner used by the National party.

    You have to ask yourself the question as to why John Key who came here to help New Zealand or so he said, made it possible for foreign intelligence gatherers to collect large amounts of data from people who are not accused of being engaged in any criminal activities. It is clearly not in New Zealand’s interest to have their privacy being invaded in such a wholesale manner.

    In Holland we have a saying: U vraagt, wij draaien. It essentially stands for: you tell me what you want me to do and I’ll jump. The question is who asked and who did John Key jump for?

    • Anne 14.1
      27 September 2016 at 8:38 pm

      Thanks WILD KATIPO.

      It’s so easy to forget these things but that whole period between 2010 – 2013 was quite weird. To begin with Sir Bruce Ferguson “retired early” which I thought at the time seemed a bit odd. He was a highly regarded former military chief and he certainly had the right experiences for the job. Suddenly he chooses to retire a couple of years before his time was up. That was soon followed by the Ian Fletcher affair which only served to increase suspicion something was not right. Fletcher had no prior working experience with the intelligence services but he apparently did have links to one of the British services. His forté lay in the world of commerce.

      With the benefit of hindsight it’s obvious some ‘skulduggery’ was going on behind the scenes and Ferguson was forced to resign early. Could it have been because Ferguson baulked at the (then) illegality of the demand request that the GCSB spy on Kim Dotcom and the 80 others? Fletcher’s back-ground suggests he might have been more amenable to the arrangement. Two to three years down the track Fletcher himself suddenly resigns because… he wanted to spend more time with his family or some such thing. Job complete?

      This is conjecture, but it does have a strong element of plausibility about it.

      • Anne 14.1.1
        27 September 2016 at 9:21 pm

        Have given the ‘conjecture’ some more thought and it would have been more likely the decision was made to get rid of Bruce Ferguson before any approach to the GCSB took place. Ferguson was adamant at the time that the GCSB had never conducted surveillance of NZ citizens under his watch. He would have been telling the truth because he was known to be a man of integrity. I’m sure that was the reason why Helen Clark appointed him in the first place. Key and his cohorts probably knew there would be problems with him so he had to go?

        If I’m right then Ferguson will be feeling bitter about the treatment meted out to him.

  15. WILD KATIPO 15
    27 September 2016 at 1:53 pm

    One last one, from The Daily Blog,

    thedailyblog.co.nz/2015/…/re-watch-moment-of-truth-and-realise-it-was-right-all-alo..

    My comments were and still are as such…

    WILD KATIPO says:
    MARCH 15, 2015 AT 10:40 AM
    History may indeed repeat itself, except this time right on our very own home soil.

    As with the resignation of president Nixon, ….to avoid the almost certain impeachment that would follow….

    Here we have John KEY, who not only denied any knowledge his chief of staff/communications officer used the SIS to smear a political opponent…and sites his nebulous ‘office’ instead…

    To which the Inspector General found it was indeed involved in those activities..

    But has denied vehemently that ‘ full take’ data – or in plainspeak – ‘mass surveillance ‘ – of New Zealanders occurred/occurs now.

    He has not only been proven wrong in light of the recent revelations about spying on the nations of the Pacific – under the 5 eyes spy network using the American funded GSCB….and that this could potentially jeopardize the trust between these and our nation…and compromise our trade relations…but in backtracking to recent history….

    If one remembers back only a few months ago around the 2014 election when he constantly lied to the public about ‘mass surveillance’ and the XKEYscore program, and full take data of the populace ,…he did so much deny this that he demanded the SIS furnish him with ‘proof’….

    To which even the SIS stated that he had potentially compromised NZ’s security in doing so.
    And then after all that when he had backed himself into a corner…finally came out publicly and stated that yes…’some ‘ surveillance has been conducted…

    But that’s not the end of it by any measure….

    This is not even mentioning the illegality of the GSCB spying on Mr Kim Dotcom along with 88 others. It is no surprise later then that he moved quickly on instruction from the NSA for our GSCB to close those legal loopholes…

    The shoddy , disgusting treatment of Mr Kim Dotcom ( and recall at that time he was indeed a NZ resident as well…)…is a case in point of this so -called PM’s ability to victimize anyone who stands in the way of his and his Globalist masters game plan.

    It is no small wonder then why this ‘PM’ pulled out all the stops and happily had a Waco , Texas style invasion of Mr Kim Dotcom’s private residence and family’s privacy. On our own soil.

    And then denied ( as he usually does ) he had any knowledge of the man.

    As he denied any involvement with Ian Fletcher…yet days before Fletcher was to take that post they had a breakfast together…and despite four other candidates…Fletcher was the man chosen.

    They had both known each other since childhood.

    As was nothing also said about the meeting and quiet arrival in the early hours of the morning of an aircraft onto these shores which contained no less than a high ranking official of the NSA – taking place secretly with several high ranking officials of our own ….John Cambell’s TV3 produced a very compelling investigation that this meeting was to remove the ‘ threat ‘ Mr Dotcom ‘comprised’….

    It was then found the GSCB goofed and HAD acted illegally…after the fact.

    The victim was thrown in jail , after he and his pregnant wife had been treated roughly – that after having 88 paramilitary abseil down from circling helicopters – to invade the property…do we even use THOSE tactics against criminal gangs !!! ???

    Mr Dotcom was asset stripped, denied access to cash , a phone call to his lawyer and made into a pariah by the news media – oh yes- those that thought at that time John KEY could do no wrong – and still New Zealanders slept through all of this.

    We have the Donghua Liu false donations scandal by the very same media which it has now found to have been fabricated totally. Another political smear against political opponents.

    But the magic is all starting to unravel now for this ‘ PM ‘ as the recent Snowden revelations regarding spying on our Pacific neighbors were concerned -and , – in Key’s position – almost prophetic.

    So indeed…the very men John Key called ‘Screaming Left wing conspiracy theorist’s ‘ have turned out not to be mere theorist’s – but accurate . informed , articulate harbingers of the truth. The Moment of Truth , – with Snowden , Assange , Greenwald , Amsterdam …and their hosts Mr Kim Dotcom ,Laila Harre…the Internet Mana party made this possible.

    Which makes Key’s former populist rant seem extremely shallow and artificial at the very least.

    A recent article produced by Martyn Bradbury lists around 25 instances where this ‘PM ‘ …has been found to be wanting regarding accurately portraying the truth …..contained within that list are some very serious omissions and deliberations that have compromised our democratic processes.

    And not least among all these is the latest of Key’s unilateral decision to commit troops in the fight against ISIS…to which even his confidence and supply political partners are divided.

    We should all be extremely unnerved by the modus operandi and motives of this ‘ PM’ and start to question just where this individual is taking this country and by whom.

    And for why.

  16. mosa 16
    27 September 2016 at 2:49 pm

    Wild Katipo thanks for the refresh it makes for terrifying reading even though more worrying its been in the public arena for some time and has not provoked a reaction at all that you would expect in any western country when its elected leader has behaved in this way and that his motives have been endorsed by that leaders countries own media and that a foreign power is interfering in a supposed allied governments laws and agencies.

    This should have precipitated a Prime Ministerial resignation at the very least and a Royal commision of enquiry and serious charges laid.

    This information is what we know but how much has been done behind the veil of security that Key hides behind.

    What have New Zealanders done electing this man and this anti democratic government to power three times in a row and are prepared to put up with this poison spreading through our New Zealand.

    Where was Peter Dunne -Mr common sense ? and MPs from the Maori party ? and at least one non brain dead National MP ! What does Key and the security services have on them ?
    Key once joked about a Nixon style enemies list some years ago in his top drawer, i think that is the only statement of truth that has ever passed his lips.

    Jesus its a bloody shambles and Key and the others have made me ashamed to be a kiwi and frightened of my countries Leader and government.

    Godzone? no !
    Americas own Yes !