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Open mike 01/06/2022

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, June 1st, 2022 - 96 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

96 comments on “Open mike 01/06/2022 ”

  1. Jester 1

    Sounds like the Biden meeting went very well. I believe it even ran over time by around 30 minutes which is a positive sign.

    Joe Biden praises Jacinda Ardern's leadership during meeting at the White House | Stuff.co.nz

    • Chris T 1.1

      Ardern probably had to give him 30 minutes for a nap, while she read a book.

      I am joking!!!!!!

      I agree. Seems quite successful. While I disagree with a lot of her policy, you can't deny Ardern is a great ambassador for the country. She has done extremely well.

      We have been a bit lucky that way with leaders tbf.

      The whole Key/Obama thing, and now Ardern/Biden.

      • Sacha 1.1.1

        Dirty media

        • Sacha

          How foreign media show it

          • Sacha

            Interesting. Sensitive content warning must be because the headline includes the word 'shootings'.

        • AB

          Yes Sacha – it has been noted in our household for some time: Ardern in photos looking wrinkled, exhausted and pleading, Luxon in photos looking energetic with hands up gesturing in a dynamic pose, wrinkle-free and top of photo sometimes cropped to remove shiny pate. It's a time-honoured tactic – remembering Ed Milliband and the bacon sandwich, countless pictures of Corbyn.

          I guess it's only photos and not that important. But still a useful illustration of the sort of spiteful, far-right children controlling some of our media outlets, and a useful reminder of how private power operates.

          • Blade

            John Key and that hotdog. Reuters cropping the images of people holding weapons during a protest blockade when Israeli forces boarded a ship. Don Brash and Judith Collins…all fodder and mirth for our Leftwing media.

            Maybe the media is just the media. And if you are in power, you are going to get it because you are the tallest poppy.?

            • Puckish Rogue


              The answer is always sexism.

            • AB

              Persistent patterns are more than just random media noise. To pretend that media bias is just even-handed tall poppy cutting is delusional. Differences in degree matter.

              • Blade

                In that case, I'm of the firm opinion our media is left leaning given the patterns I have noticed over the years especially around Maori, stale white males, rich pricks and bloody Pakehas.

                How do I explain the hit job the media is doing on Ardern at the moment?

                It's quite simple. Like many of us, the media are just over her. Simple minds like shiny objects, they become mesmerized and happy. When the shine wears off reality prevails. And that sucks.

                  • SPC

                    There is a group of older white race, once left wing men, who oppose CGT on their property wealth and partnership with Maori and Chris represents them now.

                    Martin the awake bomber Bradbury (on right wing radio and pod cast independent free speech platforms) supports the narrative against "woke" "feminist" public media funding as some sort of a champion of working class manhood (but at least he is genuinely left wing on economic policy and not against partnership with Maori).

                    • gypsy

                      Clearly you didn't read the article, or the context in which I posted the excerpt. Chris is referring to the way in which the government has manipulated the media into supporting (or at least not questioning) the narrative around co-governance, and how co-governance is quasi constitutional change by stealth.

                      "The party did not campaign on the issue, and kept He Puapua, the controversial “road-map” to full implementation of the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples – i.e. co-governance – by 2040, under wraps. Similarly unheralded was the Government’s determination to establish a separate Māori Health Authority. And the application of co-governance principles to Mahuta’s deeply unpopular “Three Waters” project has done nothing to allay public fears that the country is being changed, in fundamental ways, without the electorate’s consent."

                    • SPC

                      Clearly I understand his position very well, as your extra quote indicates he really does have a problem with partnership with Maori (and his concern about the media funding has to be seen in that context).

                      And fact introduction

                      National began partnership when they set up whanau ora. They had no mandate, it was part of a coalition deal with the MP.

                      Given the existence of this, and reform of health was signalled before the 2020 election …

                      “A central focus of a returned Labour Government will be the roll out of our plan to improve the public health system to deliver high quality services, fewer DHBs, an increased focus on equity, a Māori Health Authority that will focus on Māori health, an aged care commissioner and a Public Health Agency that will more closely link the country’s 12 public health units.


                    • gypsy

                      "indicates he really does have a problem with partnership with Maori (and his concern about the media funding has to be seen in that context)."

                      His concern with the media funding is that there were strings attached. Those strings restricted the media openly questioning the prevailing government view about treaty partnership. In a modern liberal democracy, this is unacceptable. Chris then makes the point that this has also led to a concerning restraint around questioning the apparent nepotism being exercised by a senior government minister. He continues by outlining how the government went to the last election having hidden it's co-governance agenda, and continued this undemocratic behaviour in the way it is forcing through the 3Waters reform.

                      Chris is fundamentally correct. You can try to dismiss his opinion by insinuating he is a racist or whatever, but all that does is prove his point.

                    • SPC

                      Similarly unheralded was the Government’s determination to establish a separate Māori Health Authority.

                      Factually inaccurate as I demonstrated.

                    • gypsy

                      "Factually inaccurate as I demonstrated."

                      Did Labour take the He Puapua document to the public? Did they even share it with their coalition partner? The answers are no. That is inherently dishonest, and amounts to consideration of significant constitutional change by stealth. Do you see Chris’s point?

                    • gypsy

                      "And given the alternative is new investment in water utility (given local government debt and incapacity) coming from global corporations "

                      There are alternatives to 3Waters that are far more cost effective. But of course they wouldn't provide jobs to ministerial family members.

                    • gypsy

                      " (but at least he is genuinely left wing on economic policy and not against partnership with Maori)."

                      You fundamentally misunderstand the narrative. There is a massive leap from 'partnership with Maori' to co-governance of strategic assets or to parallel systems based on race.

                    • SPC

                      There is no evidence that the He Puapua report is government policy.

                      There is evidence of a partnership approach to land and water asset management, such as in Three Waters.

                      I am not surprised he fails to understand the difference when he gets facts so wrong – a Maori Health Authority was Labour policy pre 2020 election. As for “parallel systems” it was National who established whanau ora.

                      What are the alternatives to Three Waters that involve sufficient investment and continued public ownership?

                    • RedLogix

                      There is no evidence that the He Puapua report is government policy.

                      Technically that might be correct, but when its provisions in health, water and conservation are directly implemented as public policy, then only the most obdurate fool would pretend that it is not defacto policy.

                      And when it's authors are appointed – in direct conflict with the Cabinet Manual – to positions of significant policy influence then you know what is coming down the road at us.

                    • SPC

                      Then you are arguing that co-governance began when National agreed to whanau ora (and that was not based on He Puapua). There is no difference between it and a Maori Health Authority, so why would you claim that was (based on HP)?

                      As for Three Waters, Maori involvement in land and water management has been going on for years (you must have had some working knowledge of that) – long before HP.

                      You're drinking the Kool Aid.

                    • Incognito []

                      Indeed, one could say the water reforms started in 2017, but probably ‘murmurs’ go back even further. It was also in Labour’s 2020 Election Manifest.

                      There’s no excuse for being ill-informed aka ignorant and Chris Trotter is acting as a useful idiot (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot).

                    • RedLogix

                      The only kool aid on offer here is the idea that co-governance is compatible with representative democracy. And that there is no difference between consulting with a stakeholder group – and giving them veto power on the board of directors.

                      I am going to take the liberty of copying a particularly good comment from Odysseus in the comment thread under CTs post:

                      Whoa, careful Chris, you will be accused of spreading "disinformation" by the government's academic "experts". This seems to be the latest ploy to smear those who express concerns about "co-governance". Many New Zealanders have serious, well-founded reservations about "co-governance" as outlined for example in the 3 Waters project. It is not democratic and it demolishes accountability to those who actually fund the 3 Waters infrastructure.

                      Incidentally, the UN Declaration is not about co-governance as such; it proclaims the need to ensure the autonomy of "indigenous" communities. The Declaration arose in the first place from efforts to protect isolated "indigenous" communities in the Amazon Basin; diplomats from Cuba, whose indigenous people were largely wiped out a long time ago, seized on it as a stick with which to beat the "white settler" countries, particularly their arch-foe the United States. Helen Clark showed her wisdom in not having a bar of it; she appreciated the Declaration was thoroughly alien to New Zealand's experience as a nation.

                      It is very hard to see how democracy and co-governance can co-exist. Democracy recognizes the innate and equal worth of every person. Initially an idea that emerged in Athens in the 5th century BC, it is also a fundamentally Christian concept. The push for co-governance is being led by those who take the interests of their tribe as their point of reference. They are coming from a very different perspective where ancestry and birth determine one's place in the world. This government cannot reconcile these different worldviews and risks aggravating division every time they open their mouth. We are not in a good place.

                      The extraordinary contradiction going on here is your fearmongering around privatising water assets – while at the same time applauding their effective control by private Maori iwi corporations.

                    • SPC

                      Are you now finally noticing that independence for indigenous peoples is not co-governance (such as whanau ora and MHA delivery to Maori via Maori) – about time.

                      I find it hard to understand why you think partnership with Maori in management of public land and water assets is a problem for democracy, when you think private sector ownership – corporate investment and profit making from services delivered is not?

                      Can you explain?

                      Unless of course you know of a way local councils can fund the huge amount of investment required in the Three Waters domain, National says nothing on the topic as if that would something sort itself by some sort of magic market solution/disaster capitalism/venture capital opportunism.

                    • RedLogix

                      Are you now finally noticing that independence for indigenous peoples is not co-governance (such as whanau ora and MHA delivery to Maori via Maori)

                      I would have no objection if iwi decided to form a private corporation from their own funds and tendered alongside everyone else to deliver profit making services.

                      What I would object to is if the same tendering process was decided by iwi representatives on the BoD with an obvious conflict of interest. Assuming that iwi elites will have the same interests as the whole of NZ is a very faulty assumption.

                      There is a big difference between working with multiple stakeholders within the a system – and one race based group given preferential, parallel access to power by design.

                    • SPC

                      Given whanau ora and MHA are not for profit services, I presume you are referring to Maori iwi involvement in ownership stake and business operation of water utility services for profit.

                      However I think you would find a large part of the Three Waters is monopoly business – not just water to users, but also wastewater and sewage. It is not an “industry” where two different providers can compete.

                      I note your dead social democratic hand applauding the alternative of private ownership to Maori role in management of public assets.

                    • RedLogix

                      However I think you would find a large part of the Three Waters is monopoly business

                      Given I worked in said industry for eight years – the answer is no. There is a wide range of entities delivering services. Typically the owner of the asset – at present usually council owned entities – will have a core department responsible for managing the operation, but many services are contracted out. This can range from pipeline R&M, electrical and control systems, mapping and GIS services, chemical and energy inputs and so on. Some smaller councils will fully tender out their entire operation, while the larger ones will have enough in-house expertise to run a large fraction of it.

                      So while the service is a natural monopoly in that the end user has no direct choice – the asset owner has a wide choice of entities it can involve.

                    • Incognito []

                      Also, Watercare’s position as a monopoly service provider in the Auckland region obliges the company to retain stakeholders’ confidence that it is performing optimally.


                      No democratic accountability either.

                    • SPC

                      Is not the area that needs the investment the basic infrastructure that which the council itself cannot afford – replacement, not repair and maintenance, and in some areas extra wastewater and sewage capacity because of urban intensification etc?

                  • Blade

                    Great article, Gypsy. I was aware of the funding but not the full ramifications. I thought jurnos on the ground wouldn't notice any management manipulations simply because their sentiments are similar to the narrative the government wants implemented.

                    I bring your attention to this part of the article:

                    ''The guilty parties would be an unholy alliance of Pakeha and Māori elites determined to keep public money flowing upwards into protected private hands. In this super-narrative, the structures set forth in He Puapua to secure tino rangatiratanga, will actually ensure the exclusion of the vast majority of New Zealanders from the key locations of power. The only positive consequence of which will be a common struggle for political and economic equality in which non-elite Māori and Pakeha will have every incentive to involve themselves.''

                    The New Zealand public would be shocked if they knew how many professional Pakeha are already on the gravy train. Some firms have Maori only sections dealing with all legal things pertaining to Maori. That's how big this industry is.

                    • gypsy

                      Co-governance of large public utilities is a massive gravy train for elites. And families of elites.

                    • SPC

                      ''The guilty parties would be an unholy alliance of Pakeha and Māori elites determined to keep public money flowing upwards into protected private hands. In this super-narrative, the structures set forth in He Puapua to secure tino rangatiratanga, will actually ensure the exclusion of the vast majority of New Zealanders from the key locations of power.

                      And given the alternative is new investment in water utility (given local government debt and incapacity) coming from global corporations – signed off by NACT, this argument may well age very badly in the eyes of future generations.

                    • KJT

                      Not very sharp, Blade.
                      Trotter sometimes gets it right.

                      Unfortunately, like you, he is prone to flights of delusional fantasy.

                      The media, far from being seduced by Government funding, has been unrelentingly hostile to the Government from day one.

                      This Facebook headline for example. "Spinning out of control".

                      Government blames COVID-19 for 46 percent increase in communications staff | Newshub

                      Obviously the need for more communications staff over covid.

                      The cognitive dissonance of right Wing media simultaneously whinging about "Lack of information for the public", and the growth in information staff required by covid.

                      We wouldn't need so many, if Media "did their fucking job" instead of blindly repeating National party bullshit.

                    • KJT


                      Governance of large public utilities (and large private ones, has been and still is) is a massive gravy train for elites. And families of elites. (Especially ex National MP' s and their mates).

                      Fixed it for you.

                • Patricia Bremner

                  She is no gaudy trinket. You do expose your bile at times.

          • Incognito

            I guess it’s only photos and not that important.

            Photos can generate emotions and perceptions and reinforce pre-existing ones. It is reasonable to assume that this has some downstream effects on behaviour & actions.

        • Anne

          Tall poppy syndrome and jealousy with ageism and misogyny thrown in.

          Sydney morning Herald
          Taking the woke thing to a whole new level.

  2. Stephen D 2

    Where's Dennis these days?

  3. DB Brown 3

    Small Countries snub China.

    Some discussion here concerning China and their recent offers in the Pacific

    • Blade 3.1

      I think China is quite happy with their first major foray into the Pacific. China plays a long game. They know Island economies won't be improving under the present global situation, and regardless of how much money we give in aid. China has forced added pressure on Australia and New Zealand regarding our relationship with pacific nations. The Chinese will continue to chip away at the Pacific. And that cookie jar China holds up to our Pacific cuzzies, may at a later date become too tempting.

      Over to you, Nanaia…Nanaia! Are you there?

      • Muttonbird 3.1.1

        Am loving the sudden concern for the Pacific Islands among the opposition and its supporters.

        It was just a short time ago this National Party supporter described the Pacific Islands thus:

        The Pacific Islands don't matter. They are nothing but leeches on us.

        – Heather Duplicity Allan

        Why the change of heart? Must be political…

        • Blade

          I can't help you regarding National and it's supporters. Maybe they misjudged. Remember Helen Clark? ''We live in a benign part of the world.'' Yet, just up the road in Fiji?

          I became interested in China, mid 2000s when Ian Wishart wrote some excellent articles on China and its future roll in our region. We even had Chinese military training here if I remember correctly.

          Political? You bet.

      • SPC 3.1.2

        We need to partner up with the EU and USA and assist with development.

        China wants to

        1. get access to ports for their fishing fleet and first island chain "coast guard" vessels (security). They will then offer port capability development assistance to get access to the 200 mile economic zone of the island.
        2. they will offer telecommunications aid (including their own infrastructure, so they can reduce Five Eyes surveillance)
        3. they will train and resource police (cultivate informers who will provide intel – the local “ambassador attache will feed this back to Beijing via these secure networks so they can offer political support against any opposition – thus claim they are owed and then will own the politicians).
        4. provide, as in the Solomon Islands Chinese police on the ground to protect “ethnic Chinese property” in capital cities and also investment in regions/islands hostile to Chinese presence.
        • Blade

          Yes, and the danger is China can bankroll all this, and a whole heap more, without breaking a sweat. We can't, we need to partner up like you say.

          I believe one indicator pointing towards China preparing to attack Taiwan will be a change in behaviour of Chinese communities in the Pacific. That's one thing I would be looking out for.

      • Patricia Bremner 3.1.3

        Didn't you see her Chiefly adornment?

        No?— too busy with your preconceived notions.

  4. Blade 4

    With all the speculation regarding China in the Pacific and it's intentions with Taiwan, I thought I would take a different tack and find out more about our possible future enemies – the Chinese people. But I wanted the talkback version regarding Chinese people, not MSM narratives.

    Enter this guy who I've found very interesting. Winston Sterzel is a South African who lived in China during its great push to modernise. His clips have some fascinating insights. For example, marriage in China is nothing like Western marriages. China has huge ghost cities no one lives in. And when Russia attacked Ukraine, Chinese expats were told to roll out the Chinese flag and welcome Russian troops. A few days later China told them to take their flags down and lay low.laugh

    Now, everyone likes taking a crack at American gun culture, especially liberals. Some criticisms are justified. Critics talk of other major countries where nothing approaching the level of gun crime America experiences ever happen.

    In this clip Winston talks about knife crime in China – mass stabbings that never make global headlines. I can only remember one such incident being reported in NZ. The clip shows police and security even use a special device looking like a shepherd's crook to tackle such crime. BTW, apparently Chinese crazies attack kindergartens. That's one step lower than American crazies. But let's not quibble.

    At 14.30

  5. Chris 3 5

    Something concerning no matter what your political views are.


    • weka 5.1

      we have another Chris here, so I’ve changed your username. Next time you comment please use that, or pick a unique one and stick to it. Thanks.

    • joe90 5.2

      Murfitt is the clown who reckons the Covid response has been used to destroy liberty in New Zealand.


      • Rosemary McDonald 5.2.1

        What an excellent letter! I really appreciate well researched and referenced work such as this. Thanks for the link joe90!

        (Especially like the reminder of how Uncle Ashley declared that Omicron escapes the Pfizer product, back in January…the point at which all mandates should have been lifted. Yet here we are. )

        Thanks again joe90!

        • SPC

          Not exactly, first they had to identify the level of risk to the health system/hospitalisation from omicron infection before moving on from workplace and location mandates.

          The letters claim that the vaccination does not reduce serious outcomes is simply untrue.

    • AB 5.3

      Nope – not concerned that libertarian psychos don't approve of WHO doing its job properly. Not even concerned when they invoke the name of the tyrannical Helen Clark(e) whom, we might remember, nearly ended western civilisation with low-energy lightbulbs, until she was mercifully removed in 2008 by the heroic, freedom-loving saint from Merrill Lynch.

    • Anne 5.4

      "The proposed amendments to the International Health Regulations ("IHR") and the Pandemic Prevention and Preparedness Treaty ("the Treaty") will galvanise the World Health Organisation ("WHO") as the singular controlling authority and architect of global health. Individual nations will surrender their sovereignty to unelected bureaucrats with discretionary powers to lockdown their citizens and economy for any potential or actual public health emergency of international concern. We will be at the hands of a Director-General who was indicted before the International Criminal Court for war crimes and at the mercy of an advisory panel led by Helen Clarke."

      What a load of deranged piffle! The WHO is the global health entity which pulls all the threads pertaining to health matters together for the betterment of mankind as a whole. The WTO (world trade), the WMO (meteorological science) and others do the same. Almost all countries have their representatives based in Geneva assisting the parent body. Are you therefore claiming all these countries are complicit in some wacko conspiracy?

      The author can't even spell Helen Clark's surname correctly.

      • Anne 5.4.1

        All in bold. Sorry. Tried to change. Won't work. 🙁

        • Incognito

          All fixed 🙂

          • Anne

            Thanks Incog. How did you do it for future reference? Font wouldn't work.

            • Incognito

              I wish I could tell & help you. I rarely use the front-end to comment, and in the back-end the text editor is different. Only Lprent will be able to explain these sorts of things. That said, I’d have thought the font tool should have worked, so that’s odd, to me too 😉

    • Shanreagh 5.5

      I am not concerned by this heap of bull kaka espoused by Voices for Freedom…..full of conspiracy theories etc and we have had enough of CTs from people like VFF to last us a lifetime I would have thought.

  6. Grey Area 6

    On a baking hot Washington DC morning (about 33C), Jacinda Ardern came to meet with the leader of the free world.

    The next time I hear this phrase I might puke. As this failed democracy fades what does this term beloved by lazy journalists even mean?

    More than though is the hypocrisy of describing a country that has interfered in the running of so many sovereign states in this way.

    I guess the US would say it's contributing to the overthrow of many legitimate governments over many decades is "freeing" them from the yoke of communism, socialism or whatever.

    The USA doesn't defend democracy. It defends its own interests and its own world view.


    • Scud 7.1

      There was once a upon a time a Government organisation called the Maori Housing Corporation that built houses for the Maori's.

      Which also provided training for them as well at all levels of construction & at housing/ contract management etc

    • pat 7.2

      Curiously the Iwi organisations say its too risky to invest in.

      • Patricia Bremner 7.2.1

        No not curious Pat. As the Maori land is communally owned it can not be used as a security, only the building, which has to be removable …quirk of Law. So no security until build is signed off. That needs to change.

        • pat

          Who demands the security of the land Patricia?….the lending bank (or financial institution)….if the financial institution is the owner of the land the problem is moot.


          • 1928: Founded as the Public Service Investment Society, lending money to public servants when others were reluctant to do so[3]
          • 2006: Total assets surpassed NZ$1 billion in May[7]
          • October: Change of name to The Co-operative Bank and registration as a bank by the Reserve Bank of New Zealand[2]

          There is every opportunity for Iwi organisations to create a banking mechanism to provide capital for Iwi development and they have a natural support base. The restriction of Maori land is self imposed , which is the Iwi's right but the difficulty it creates is also theirs to solve….it is not insoluble, but like all investment it carries risk.

          It IS curious that the risk is perceived too great.

  7. joe90 8

    The nation of rapists, thieves and murderers weren't content with looting toilets and household appliances.

    May 28 (Reuters) – A ship has entered the Ukrainian port of Mariupol for the first time since Russia completed its capture of the city to load metal and ship it east to Russia, TASS news agency reported on Saturday, in a move that Kyiv decried as looting.


    Ukraine's Human Rights Ombudsman Lyudmyla Denisova said the shipment amounted to looting by Russia.

    "Looting in the temporarily occupied territories of Ukraine continues," she wrote on the Telegram messaging app.

    "Following the theft of Ukrainian grain, the occupiers resorted to exporting metal products from Mariupol."

    Ukraine's largest steelmaker Metinvest on Friday said it was concerned that Russia may use several ships stranded in Mariupol to "steal and smuggle metallurgical products" belonging to the group. It accused Russia of piracy.


  8. pat 9

    "Rising costs have created a “ticking timebomb” for UK small business owners, the chairman of the Federation of Small Businesses (FSB) has warned, with almost half a million firms at risk of going bust within weeks without a fresh wave of government support."


  9. Blade 10

    While Jacinda basks in the glory of meeting Joe Biden ,Andrew Little releases the Pharmac report that I believe sat on his desk waiting for and appropriate moment. A moment when our media had better things to do.

    As usual, Pharmac, like everyone else, has been found to have failed Maori. And disabled people. Trans folk aren't mentioned, so we are sailing blind in that regard.


    ''The panel found Pharmac’s model has delivered significant benefits, but to achieve its purpose these benefits need to be shared more equitably across our communities, especially for Māori and Pacific peoples.''


    • Belladonna 10.2

      I've read the interim report, released last year – and the content of the final one, doesn’t seem to have changed much.


      I'm wondering about this inequality in relation to Maori.
      All of the comments I can find in the report are around Maori having less access to the existing drugs (e.g. less often disagnosed, or prescribed existing drugs) – which really has nothing to do with Pharmac.

      [I mean, yeah, it needs to be addressed – but doesn't come within the areas that Pharmac control]

      Pharmac was also caned for the reduced number of Maori employed (which may well have to do with the fact that medically qualified Maori can write their own ticket in any of the healthcare professions – and Pharmac isn't perhaps where they see they can make the most difference).

      There was some speculation that diseases which predominantly affect Maori aren't getting the drug funding – but no concrete examples given in the report (though 2 drugs which do treat diseases more commonly experienced by Maori, were specifically mentioned as being funded by Pharmac in response to lobbying by Maori health groups – i.e. Pharmac is already doing it.)

      Expenditure is more highly focused on the older age bracket. Which would be no surprise, since many of the drugs are life extenders (heart, blood pressure, cancer medication, etc.).

      I do have some grave concerns over Little's stated policy

      “The days of the Independent Republic of Pharmac are over. Pharmac is part of our health administration, and needs to be working appropriately with the rest of the health administration,” Little said in the Beehive on Wednesday.

      If this is just about integrating drug decision-making alongside other medical interventions – then that's one thing (and a highly desirable outcome). [Thinking here of prioritizing surgical interventions to reduce the drug costs for symptom management]

      If it's opening the pathway to politicising Pharmac decisions – when, inevitably, the loudest voices with the best PR have the greatest weight – then that's quite another.

      The best outcome from this report would be for Pharmac's decisions to be more open and transparent, and for them to be made in a much more timely fashion (and revisited if/when more information becomes available). However, the down-side of this, is that unless there is more money available, funding one drug means de-funding something else. TAANSTAFL

      Sadly, for many of the special interest groups – NZ basically can't afford the 1st world standard of medical care that they would like to aspire to. Unless Pharmac's budget is increased very substantially (which I don't see as on the cards, given the economic climate), drug-treatment for rare and expensive treatments is simply not going to be publicly funded in NZ.

      Refining how you slice the pie, doesn't change the size of it.

      • pat 10.2.1

        Politicising Pharmac decisions has been going on forever….the sooner we accept our health system operates on a triage methodology the better for all.

        • Belladonna

          I agree. I see this announcement from Little as a move away from a fact-based triage model, to a more political one.

          That's not to say that I don't think Pharmac could do a better job about making their decision making explicit and clear (because I think they've been poor in this area).

          But we will never have enough money to fund everything – and the hard decisions about which communities will be helped and which won't, have to be made…

      • Blade 10.2.2

        Put it this way as an example. Pharmac has $1000 to spend on a certain drug. That equates to 10 Pakeha and 3 Maori who qualify for such expenditure. Now, under the revised system that's more focus on Maori, Maori will have 6 seats( deserved or not) at the funding table while Pakeha drop to seven places. Why? Simple racism.

        You may remember the DHB that prioritised Maori getting treatment first?


        ''Pharmac was also caned for the reduced number of Maori employed.''

        I say, WhyTF is an issue like that in this report. Who cares?

  10. Jimmy 11

    Is Grant Robertson a bumbling fool, or just lying?

    "We've got interest from a number of other players", he said on Tuesday, noting German discount supermarket Aldi as one of the "players in the Australian market that people can take a look at".

    A spokesperson for the chain has since confirmed it has "no current plans to expand into New Zealand".


    Sometimes it pays to actually check with the company before saying they may do something when the next day they confirm they have no intention.

    • Patricia Bremner 11.1

      After the journalist wrote his story based on a "possibly" comment. They are predictable in their flimsy proof and out of context slants. Often a "gotcha" type relationship with reality.

      Further a large photo of Luxon with a heading implying we are not engaging with other countries.

      Since we opened up the PM has visited Singapore and Japan followed by a friendly call to congratulate Albanese on his Election win plus lead a delegation Trade Mission and meet the President of the USA. Right so "not doing anything?"

    • joe90 11.2

      Maintaining an NZ companies registration for 20 years and then saying they have no current plans sounds like they're keeping their cards close.

  11. Ad 12

    One for all the Hillary Haters out there:

    William Burr the AG for President Trump was supposed to find the real sticky dirt on Hillary's campaign and hired special counsel John Durham to go get it.

    Durham went after Hillary's lawyer Michael Sussman and prosecuted.


    Resounding loss against John Durham.

    And so how many have been required to give evidence from the Trump camp:

    61 officials and advisers. Several jailed already, on Contempt.

    LIST: Who the January 6 committee has subpoenaed or requested to appear – CNNPolitics

    That's on top of the 34 indictments and guilty pleas for Trump officials and advisers that have already gone down:

    Mueller indictments: everyone charged in the Russia investigation – Vox

    It's a nice big setback against the filth of Trump's legacy. This was the investigation that was supposed to show bias by law enforcement investigating President Trump. Obviously it's the usual witch-hunt by Republican elected officials and their crony staff, when it is the Republicans who on the facts of massive prosecutions are the corrupt ones.

    And once Navarro is done singing, Trump is going to try to plead the 5th and just get trashed. Can't wait.

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