Guyon Espiner's interview with the PM this morning was, on the surface, robust. But the extraordinary thing about the interview, and the follow up discussion with the political editor, was how it was framed as a vigorous defense by the journalists of the neoliberal status quo – tax cuts are more efficient, the government itself is the problem for not following the advice of neoliberal civil service, the issue for the journalists seems to be the very concept of an active government.
Lately we've been hearing an increasingly hysterical defense from National and most of the establishment MSM of the Thatcher/Reagan monetarist settlement and demands we return to that status quo with the usual prescription austerity, running down of government services, tax cuts for the rich, wage suppression via unchecked immigration and housing bubbles.
With the rise of dark money propaganda – which of which will be subject of zero curiosity or scrutiny from an establishment MSM happy to re-print press releases from a thicket of false fronts set up by the the likes of Jordan Williams – It is going to be a very dirty election in 2023. A lot of fat cats are relying on the right returning us to the true path of Rogernomics and they are willing to pay what it takes.
Just listened to both the interview (linked above) and the follow up with Jane Patterson (it's the second topic she addresses, after the proposed legislative change to close the NZF electoral donations loophole)
I didn't hear any "vigorous defence by the journalists of the neoliberal status quo" It's the job of journalists to ask hard questions – I'm sure many listeners would have been wondering 'why not tax cuts?' – which I thought that Ardern answered very effectively (tax cuts are inflationary long term, the targeted payment is less inflationary, and is short term)
The points made by Patterson in the follow-up were:
This was rushed through, and less than perfect targeting is the consequence.
IRD gave advice that they didn't have the capacity to target more specifically.
Opens the government to charges of un-targeted spending [which the NP are exploiting]
And many partners with disabilities don't get it because they had no earnings and get neither a benefit nor ACC.
This is a very much abandoned group – when I started work many employers paid an extra allowance for people who had non-working partners, you could claim a tax rebate if your partner earned under a certain amount and a few other things like life insurance rebates.
Now all the costs fall on the one partner exacerbated by Labours decision to remove underage partners from NZS.
Many of us who care for unwell partners will be working well past 65 simply to get the mortgage paid off and to try and save some money for retirement once that as done. The extra $6,000 to $7,000 in tax I pay over a couple earning the same amount each year over the last 30 years is the difference between paying my mortgage off already and being in Kiwisaver.
I'm still fortunate however that I have been in a position where I have been able to support my partner. This isn't the case for many.
Very few people in politics advocate for this group. Peter Dunne was probably the last. It does grate a little, despite understanding the practical aspects as to why this has occurred, that people overseas are getting this payment while non-working partners get zilch. Many like mine have worked in the past when well – it wouldn't be impossible to set up a system where they could apply for the payment.
David Parker was on Morning Report today saying that 1% of the cost of living payments would have gone to the wrong people.
Later on Morning Report (or maybe it was at the start of Nine to Noon) I heard that there is a mechanism to repay wrong payments and a mechanism to stop the next two payments simply by gong to the website if somebody is receiving the payment wrongly.
Yet again the media, including RNZ, is going well over the top and misleading the public in order to slam Labour.
Meanwhile on this afternoon's RNZ Panel people came on saying the $350 would be very useful as a short term alleviating measure. And David Slack made the point that this is a measure in addition to raising benefits, Working for Family and raising the minimum wage and increasing the winter fuel allowance, which are far more important measures helping the low paid implemented by this government.
The Espiner interview was an attempt to create a political storm around a minor glitch in the Cost of Living Payment to those on the lowest incomes. The vast majority of payments are going to people living in NZ, but a minority living overseas have been caught up in the system – as was expected. The amount involved will be infinitesimal in the scheme of things. Jacinda Ardern clearly and succinctly explained the problem and it was simply brushed aside by Espiner as if she had never said anything.
A calculated storm in a tea cup designed to be a supposed example of "sloppy policydone on the hoof" as postulated by Jane Patterson, whose cynical and often inaccurate analysis of government action and policies prompted me long ago to rarely listen to them.
The sense I got from both those interviews is that they were pandering to the middle classes who resent even a small payment to those on the lowest incomes at a time of considerable financial stress.
Agree Sanc. It was a maddeningly stupid piece of radio. But anything that is targeted will have problems at the boundary. Either individual injustices over who is included and who is not, or administrative issues of insufficient information to draw the boundary cleanly. It's a primary reason why universality is a good principle in social policy. If you can get support for it. Labour's caution on universality and insistence on targeting causes problems for themselves.
Also, interesting 2016 piece from the Rand corporation on Fascist Russia's "Firehose of Falsehood" propaganda techniques, the effectiveness of which is played out frequently on this site in relation the Ukraine war and whose malign hand can, IMHO, be seen in the online support for Trumpism.
Prolonged periods of stress actually have a biological effect, making us quicker to react in potentially stressful situations
Your ability to control your reactions also diminishes – where you might have walked away or vented to a friend later – you now react emotionally immediately.
Feelings of anger towards those 'in control' – people don't remember what they said, they remember how it made them feel.
Emotional anger (e.g. towards mandates) doesn't dissipate. It needs to be acknowledged.
Charismatic leaders (e.g. Tamaki & Molloy) harness that anger to get people to follow them.
Key quote
"I think there does need to be an acknowledgement of the anger rather than just putting it down to misinformation. We need to engage with all parts of society if we want them to be on board," says Eatwell.
And that there's a ripple effect. Being kind ripples outwards – as does being angry and/or unkind. We can all make a difference….
Yes. Caught my eye at 5 am and I was immediately struck by the complete inappropriateness of the attached photo.
Guns! Rage! Racism!
And a photo of a bearded chubby white dude being led away by two cops.
Didn't see where it says he was arrested (and eye gouged by the cops) when he and his mates at the Freedom Village were defending the Precious Portaloos from being removed by the cops.
Didn't see any photos of his mates…arms linked and all jammed together…who were predominantly Maori.
These people were unarmed.
No guns. No racism. And any rage was understandable in the face of the cops trying to make real the "river of filth" narrative.
I'd say to the mainstream government funded media "Do better."
Alienating and marginalizing is a pretty core social control mechanism.
We tend to be intolerant of liars, and of those that offer violence.
The Freedum crowd offered a range of both – why should they then enjoy immunity to the normal responses their anti-social behaviour invites? If we treat their false (and known to be malicious) grievances with undeserved respect, we will get even more of this dangerous folly.
Do you know of anyone who had such a severe reaction to a Pfizer injection that they would not risk having another?
Someone who thought their heart was going to explode, perhaps?
We tend to be intolerant of liars, and of those that offer violence.
Is there any chance of you seeing this from the point of view of the Pfizer injured? That they were lied to when told it was safe? That they see the mandates as an actual physical threat? Along the lines of…"Take another shot of what put you in the hospital or you'll lose your job."
I know a fellow who suffered a stroke the day he was vaccinated, and, initially many of us thought that the vaccination was a factor. He was not detected early, spent a month in hospital and still has significant loss of function. But it transpires that the vaccination was not a factor.
I'm afraid that the people beating up the antivax rhetoric are simply not to be trusted. They have an agenda to obtain power or notoriety or money, and they do not serve those with anomalous medical outcomes in any way whatsoever. They are quacks and charlatans, and must be treated severely to deter both other prospective charlatans, and to make it crystal clear to naive members of the public that these scum are not competent medical authorities, nor are they worthy of their sympathy.
Now, if you have a group of Pfizer injured persons, I am sure that competent medical practitioners will go to considerable lengths to find them alternative treatment options – but obdurate ignorant antivaxxers should not expect to work in medicine or education.
"…Didn't see where it says he was arrested (and eye gouged by the cops) when he and his mates at the Freedom Village were defending the Precious Portaloos from being removed by the cops….
Rosemary's like a dog with a bone on this issue. That can't be healthy, given the fight-back she gets every time she brings it up here.
From this distance Rosemary appears to pick and choose examples and positions in order to bolster her beliefs. No doubt we all do that and when we do, it's useful (and healthy) to acknowledge that tendency and attend to it as far as we can; self-analysis and positive introspection seems a useful tool in forging a balanced, realistic world-view.
Probably not helping the discussion, but I do like to put my spoke in whenever there's passion in a discussion 🙂
From this distance Rosemary appears to pick and choose examples and positions in order to bolster her beliefs.
You care to give examples of where I have done this? I think I have been very consistent in my position on this issue.
I am healthy, thanks. I don't really care what 'fight-back' I get on this issue here on TS. I expect the usual responses from the usual people…all very ho hum.
I do feel it is important that an alternative viewpoint is entered into these discussions. Else the record will not be reflective of the reality.
A bit disappointing that there is so little sympathy here for those who had severe adverse effects from the Pfizer product.
And I simply can't believe that I am the only person who comments here who has spoken to people who had such a severe reaction to one Pfizer shot that they would not ever risk having another.
Regarding inoculations, immunisations and medical science in general. Medical science, including endless jabs, and medications have kept me alive since the day I was born.(70.25)
So forgive my skepticism about a minute number of millions of vaccines, having side effects, and causing angst.
And I simply can't believe that I am the only person who comments here who has spoken to people who had such a severe reaction to one Pfizer shot that they would not ever risk having another.
I'm one of those (I suspect very many) people who hasn't spoken to (or seen first-hand) anyone with a severe reaction to being jabbed with the Pfizer stuff.
But even if I had, that wouldn't have put me off getting my five vaccinations (so far) this year. Boosters 1 (in Jan) and 2 (in July) against Covid, plus the annual jab against influenza, and (a first for me) two (Shingrix) vaccinations against shingles, which my GP reckons will last at least 7 years, so that's good.
Nurse: Needles don't bother you then?
Tony: Me? No. I've had too many of them, my dear. I've 'ad the lot. Got arms like pin cushions. Yes, I reckon I've 'ad a syringeful of everything that's going in my time. Needles the size of drainpipes some of 'em. You name it, I've ‘ad it!
I have not met any person with serious adverse reactions caused by the Pfizer vaccine, which is telling with over 11 million shots administered in NZ (and through work I meet and hear of a lot of people). I have many friends and colleagues who did get Covid and were feeling pretty crook from it. I had a few very distant relatives overseas dying from Covid.
All the hype around Covid-19 and the new ‘experimental’ mRNA vaccines certainly increased anxiety levels among many. I was hesitant too, waited a long time before I got my shots, and did my research homework first.
Probably reality falls in between. I think Rosemary both exaggerates and doesn't have the skill or the willingness to parse severe adverse reaction from panic attack from coincidence.
but likewise, there are people who did have reactions, this was being discussed last year in medical circles. Severe to you might mean carditis. For someone with an autoimmune disease it might mean a relapse that few other people notice. Many of those people won't be recorded well in the medical systems. Haven't looked in a while but I doubt much research is being done. And afaik the Pfizer testing excluded people with chronic illnesses.
I have heard of some major reactions, as I would expect with any immunisation programme of this scale.
The population-level benefits of this public health initiative outweigh those individual harms, unfortunately. I do not know of any way to reverse that without causing more harm to more people.
This is very much like a world war. Collective action, individual sacrifice. Been the same for centuries. We are not special. People get hurt so that others may be free from it.
Our feelings about that do not outweigh or veto other sources of evidence or the body of professional expertise about what works. I would not wish on anyone the burden of the decisions that have been made in our name over the last few years. Glad to see Ashley Bloomfield getting out in one piece.
The population-level benefits of this public health initiative outweigh those individual harms, unfortunately. I do not know of any way to reverse that without causing more harm to more people.
How about telling potential Pfizer product recipients that there are risks associated with the product, and for some people the risks from the product might outweigh the risk to them personally from being infected with the virus?
If they are in the 'high risk of serious illness, hospitalisation and death' category due to age, or co- morbidities then there might well be a sound argument for taking the Pfizer product.
There is no justification, in public health terms, for mandating a product that fails to prevent infection or transmission of the target pathogen.
And there is something extremely weird in telling someone (who is at very little risk of serious illness from Covid) that they have to have a second or third shot when they have recovered from the serious adverse effects from the last one in order to keep their job.
A bit like sending a seriously injured soldier back to the front when the stump has healed over.
The population-level benefits of this public health initiative outweigh those individual harms, unfortunately. I do not know of any way to reverse that without causing more harm to more people.
This is very much like a world war. Collective action, individual sacrifice. Been the same for centuries. We are not special. People get hurt so that others may be free from it.
This is pretty much how I see it too. The thing that would make a difference is if as a society stepped up and helped the people harmed. Even knowing what Labour and the MoH are like, I'm still disappointed we didn't do better on this. Collective action cuts both ways if we want to retain it as an ethic.
I think Rosemary both exaggerates and doesn't have the skill or the willingness to parse severe adverse reaction from panic attack from coincidence.
Really? Panic attack? Hmmm…shall we have a discussion about how it was initially denied that myocarditis and pericarditis were an issue?
Do I need to remind you, yet again, that although there was an alert put out by the MOH in July 2021, officials felt it necessary to issue another, more strongly worded alert to all medial professionals in late December 2021?
And notice that the rate is many times higher per dose for the former.
And can you tell me why there is no mandatory reporting of adverse events for a product using a novel technology? ( If I am wrong about this I am happy to be corrected.)
Btw. None of the four people I know who had heart issues post Pfizer shot are the panicking type. Not at all. All of them willingly took the shot. None of them would take another. Ever.
Really? Panic attack? Hmmm…shall we have a discussion about how it was initially denied that myocarditis and pericarditis were an issue?
What's the relationship between the two things? When I raise panic attacks and the inability of some to understand the importance of assessing effect and understanding correlation =/= causation, why do you pivot to the shortcomings of the mainstream medical health system? Is that a deflection?
Do I need to remind you, yet again, that although there was an alert put out by the MOH in July 2021, officials felt it necessary to issue another, more strongly worded alert to all medial professionals in late December 2021?
Ok, so maybe you missed the point massively. Some people got carditis from the vaccine. Some people died from that. Some people had panic attacks or other health issues and blamed the vaccine when there was no direct causation. Can you honestly not see the difference?
And notice that the rate is many times higher per dose for the former.
I have no idea what point you are trying to make here, and if you won't spell it out I'm not going searching on links to try and parse it.
And can you tell me why there is no mandatory reporting of adverse events for a product using a novel technology? ( If I am wrong about this I am happy to be corrected.)
Dunno, maybe because GPs and nurses have no easy way of assessing what is an adverse reaction in an individual and what isn't?
Btw. None of the four people I know who had heart issues post Pfizer shot are the panicking type. Not at all. All of them willingly took the shot. None of them would take another. Ever.
What heart issues? I've said it before. If this is a huge problem, then set up websites, lay out case studies, make the case. If you want to be taken seriously, that's the mahi you have to do.
I'm not even saying you are wrong. I'm saying that each step of the way you've presented confused and relatively useless anectdotes. I say this as someone with a solid respect for anecdata, but to be useful and credible it has to presented in ways that have rationales and meaning beyond belief.
You've also repeatedly signalled that you don't understand fundamentals of evidence.
New Zealand authorities on Monday said they had linked a 26-year-old man's death to Pfizer Inc's (PFE.N) COVID-19 vaccine after the person suffered myocarditis, a rare inflammation of the heart muscle, after taking his first dose.
More than 58,000 people – or 40% of those surveyed – reported experiencing at least one adverse event/reaction to the Pfizer vaccine. Sixty per cent did not experience an adverse event.
a clip with Gower – Pro Vax Kiwis struggle for support after adverse reactions to the vaccine
I know that the Dunedin man died. Lots of people have died in the pandemic. This is the shit hand we have been dealt. As Sacha points out, it's a risk assessment of the best way to limit deaths.
A serious adverse reaction is defined as any reaction that results in death or is life-threatening, causes or prolongs hospitalisation, results in persistent or significant disability/incapacity, is a congenital abnormality or is a medically important event.
People with autoimmune disorders were advised to discuss Covid vaccination with their specialist first, as their medication could also interfere with the intended immune response to the vaccine (i.e. lower effectivity).
The booster put me on my back for a couple of days despite me not being especially delicate or congenital. Would I regard that as serious – of course not. There's a spectrum of unpleasant temporary side effects you might get from a vaccination but they're on a spectrum of relative norms one might expect with any vaccination when your body starts producing antibodies.
that's the medical view. A lesser adverse reaction to an already disabled person can be serious and not noticed by the system. I thought that was clear from my previous comment.
People with autoimmune disorders were advised to discuss Covid vaccination with their specialist first, as their medication could also interfere with the intended immune response to the vaccine (i.e. lower effectivity).
And? No-one knew what was going to happen to whole swathes of people with chronic illnesses. Still don't largely, because the research hasn't been done.
Around this time last year my mid 20s rugby head pig hunting chippie nephew came over all-a-flutter with post-vaccination tachycardia. His father had him to the ED within the hour. He was admitted and had an echocardiogram the following morning. He was given rhythm control medication, booked to see a specialist, put off work and discharged with an order to do absolutely nothing.
He was diagnosed with a vaccine injury but was back at work within the month. He was medicated for a while and they kept a weather eye on him and by Christmas he'd come right. Recently he got the okay to resume footie training and chasing things around in the scrub.
It could have been very different had his father not had the wit to get him to the ED.
Good that it was recognised and checked out. Acute arrhythmias after Covid appear to be rather harmless, but one can never be sure with that vital muscle. Based on your information, he’d be one of 106 reported in NZ in that age group of males (with twice as many females of the same age).
Harmless perhaps but still bloody distressing for a young man who's never had to sit still in his life. But as soon as he started feeling better, wow. A pain in the arse is understating it.
Why should we give a shit about their feelings, good bad or indifferent? I don't get this assumption I should lose sleep over risking hurting the feelings of people who had the collective common sense of a startled Llama and delusions worthy of disciples of Atë.
Oh, I don't know…it would be the human thing to do? It'd be kind? It would be recognition of the fact that not all Kiwis share your views and your experiences?
My understanding of what the psychologist from the link above was saying is if we don't acknowledge peoples feelings, then that feeling (of anger) stays with them, and they are less likely to be open to logic and new information (I am not referring to you here Rosemary I am talking generally).
If we have angry citizens who feel their feelings have not been heard the likes of Brian Tamaki and Leo Molloy will likely swoop them up. This is what I think happened or is part of what happened with Trump and Brexit.
If the Govt brings in a piece of legislation that has a major impact on peoples circumstances, I think they have a duty to listen to them.
My understanding of what the psychologist from the link above was saying is if we don't acknowledge peoples feelings, then that feeling (of anger) stays with them, and they are less likely to be open to logic and new information
If a rowdy mob comes into "town" causing trouble, disruption over many weeks (on tax and rate-payers costs), they have to understand people of that town (and wider region / country) are really angry, too… and people are still waiting for acknowledgement by and apology from the protesters for "shitting in their backyard".
And where does the government drawing a line on this one:
If the Govt brings in a piece of legislation that has a major impact on peoples circumstances, I think they have a duty to listen to them.
Do they have to listen to each and every one of them? Do they have to listen to 51%, 66%, 90% or even 99.9% of the people? Was there ever a legislation with nearly 100% support?
Robert Guyton to answer your question about White Supremists and acknoleging their feelings the answer for me is I don't know. I would take advice from the clever forensic psychologist people on that one. I have never come across a white supremicist in my life. I think when I have come across prejudice, the best approach is to ask questions in a way that makes people have to reflect on their views and account for them. If you shut them done, then they are left with their prejudice, which goes unchallenged.
It is interested that on the left there is a "don't give a shit about their feelings" at one end of the spectrum and at the other, "they hurt my feelings lets cancel them"
The chap from the "occupation" who posted that "when this is over and we win I am going to eat Neve" – deserves nothing but contempt. Likewise the crowd of losers who live up the road from me and have had misogynistic and anti-vax conspiracy nonsense painted on their van for months. They live in what could be called "transitional" housing -a bunch of portacabins plonked in an old car yard with a shared kitchen and bathroom. The Police are there regularly. They were at the occupation – which was probably the most exciting thing that they have done since their last drug deal.
A better than average piece from Stuffed, and rather than doing the reading for you ….I'll copy and paste the gist and leave it to the veteran cop to speak for himself.
Well worth reading the entire piece as this cop has had the experience and done the hard yards when it comes to engaging with communities.
Nine nights at the anti-vaccine mandate protest in Wellington prompted a veteran Taranaki police officer to seek a new start.
For much of the 32 years, two months and two days former senior constable Jono Erwood, of Stratford, spent in the police he loved it.
“New Zealanders are better than what I saw there and experienced,” he said.
“Over those nights I had some good chats with some guys about why they were there, understanding and showing some empathy, treating them with respect.
“There were some people with genuine reasons for being there, some good people, but there were others who just wanted to have a crack at the police.”
Erwood said he felt the prime minister’s refusal to meet with the protestors occupying Parliament grounds had made things worse.
“I think Jacinda could have dealt with the situation better. If I have a problem with someone, I’ll go to see them and have a cup of tea. She never gave them an opportunity, never went to just listen – but then, hindsight is a wonderful thing,” he said.
"She never gave them an opportunity, never went to just listen"
Rosemary, there was a rich vein of filth, if not a river, in that particular protest. Some of them were making death threats, some were making death lists. To paint it as a crowd of the misunderstood is dishonest.
Q-anon, white supremacists, Trump flags (just why?) & Tamaki's twisted theocracy thrown in with some anti-vax, anti-science, tin foil hats…
Sure in hindsight some things could have been done better but this was a mob of disparate ideologies thrown together by opportunistic assholes. Talking to that crowd would be like trying to talk Trump supporters off their ledge. Provide facts for one thing they scream another idiotic bumper sticker dreamed up by Alex Jones (or add wingnut media here) at you. Just endless chaos.
Aligning with them was the mistake genuine protestors made.
Personally I would find it difficult to imagine any circumstance where I could have had a constructive meeting with a bunch of unhinged lunatics who had spent weeks brandishing a noose whilst muttering my name when they were not howling various cray cray conspiracy theories not rooted in any sort of objective reality.
I am struggling to understand how it is all fine and dandy for the so- called Left to behead life sized photographs of sitting MPs who are on a mission to sell off state assets, but it is completely unacceptable for the injured and frightened to visually remind an unsympathetic government and their pet media that in the not too distant past those who forced experimental medical treatments onto people were resoundingly punished.
You were there? In Wellington? Or some very close to you who you can trust to give an accurate assessment of the type of people who were there?
Did you perhaps watch/listen/read anything about the protest that didn't originate from MSM?
Or are you simply parroting what the government and their paid stenographers broadcast?
And what would the cop in the article know…eh? The one who was there…on the ground…speaking with the protestors…the good, the bad and the downright ugly?
The vast majority of those assembled in Wellington were peaceful, and wanted an end to the unjustified vaccine mandates and recognition that for some, too many, the Pfizer product is anything but safe.
A very successful campaign by the government and their paid up media ensured that these voices were silenced, and the rantings of the small minority of nutbars was amplified.
Well this is NZ, so I had two nieces who had daily views of the Wellington “protest” from their daily grind as worthy and conscientious civil servants zombie enablers of the dark combinations of the illuminati.
One thought it an unsanitary and pointless outdoor commentary on two decades of under investment in mental health and the other was abused on three occasions walking to walk so was an early and enthusiastic advocate for the use of extreme police violence to clear them out.
I know half a dozen of the protestors who were there, and others who blindly support them. They lost touch with reality some time ago. They speak in a hodge podge of half facts they glean from ridiculous right-wing 'media', religion and outright conspiracy.
One, who's known me so long he absolutely knows better, accused me of being a government shill.
Plot – lost.
All the folks with genuine concerns found themselves shiny new friends online. Not happy with the official narrative, they let themselves be led by the nose into forming a mob. An abusive mob.
The vast majority of those assembled in Wellington were peaceful
To save us all the tedium of going round and round the same old argument, can yoi please present the evidence you to support that statement?
The argument here isn't that there weren't good people at the protest. It's that there were people there causing a lot of different problems alongside the good ones, and the good ones didn't address that and still don't/won't.
Your comments consistently come across as denial that problematic people exist/ed.
Did you perhaps watch/listen/read anything about the protest that didn't originate from MSM?
Yes, I did. I followed people on twitter who were on the ground.
I'll also point out that the MSM isn't a hive mind, and reading MSM increases one's understanding of the situation where one has a critical mind and an ability to parse bias.
Did you read much MSM coverage that took a more evenhanded approach?
How come you seem largely unaware of the problems within the protest?
How come you seem largely unaware of the problems within the protest?
I am responding to just this question…to nutshell the issue. I have seeds to sow and seedlings to prick out and plants to water and sheep to tend.
How about you show me where exactly I have stated that all the Freedom Village protestors were peaceful and non violent? You won't be able to, because I have never said that.
I have said that the overwhelming majority were. Peaceful. This is a fact that even the police and security services acknowledged.
Intelligence assessments into the anti-vax movement say there is a "realistic possibility" a violent protest or terrorist act could be carried out by extremist elements linked to the "overwhelmingly peaceful" opposition to the Covid-19 vaccine.
Four separate assessments into the anti-vax movements show a shift in concern from February last year through to November.
And the reports, released through the Official Information Act, show an escalation in warnings from June onwards with the prediction Covid-19 "mitigation" efforts – vaccine mandates and passports – would be "likely to have an impact on the New Zealand terrorism threat environment over the near-to medium-term".
While the intelligence reports repeatedly emphasise the broadly peaceful nature of the anti-vax movements, they highlight the vaccine mandates and passport as particular policies that might drive an individual to violence and the presence of extremist elements.
The contrast between June and November is striking as the earlier CTAG assessments predicted any acts of violence as likely to be "an isolated instance of violent protest rather than an act of terrorism".
By November, CTAG found the risk exacerbated by increasingly violent online rhetoric and people among anti-vax groups with personal grievances and extremist beliefs.
The assessments accurately forecasted growing social division and protest if New Zealand went down the path of mandates and vaccine passports.
The reports – or at least the content – would have been made available to Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and at least some Cabinet ministers ahead of making the decision to pursue the mandates and vaccine passports. It shows the decision to forge ahead with a public health approach wasn't made without knowledge it could spark strong opposition.
The Prime Minister's office did not respond to a request for comment.
I have posted this particular article here on TS a couple of times. (As evidence that I do read mainstream media) This is not indicative of me being in denial that there were undesirable elements and influences at the periphery of the Freedom Village.
The government were warned that imposing mandates would create an environment ripe for growing protest and civil unrest. And violence.
But the government went ahead and imposed the mandates anyway, with no acknowledgement of those who had already rolled their sleeves up and been injured in the process. There were threats that jobs would be lost, and participation in normal society would be denied.
And Jacinda the Kind gloated…she poured petrol on smouldering embers, and gloated. Only fools would not expect a backlash after this standout performance.
Rosemary – regarding an audience with the PM – surely it was the responsibility of the non-violent, non-threat-making, non-aligned-with-dangerous-elements folk who wished to meet with the MPs and PM, to differentiate themselves, distance themselves from those elements that should not be granted such a meeting?
Did the "good guys" do that, making it clear to the politicians that the meeting would not endanger them? If that didn't happen (I believe it didn't happen) then the failure to broker such a meeting sits with the "good" protesters, not the parliamentarians, imo. I'd like to hear your view on this.
Of course some groups tried to get the attention of the House…with the view to speak on behalf of the vaccine injured and those medial professionals with real concerns about the mRNA shots and the measurable negative effects of lockdowns and mask wearing for all. All MPs were instructed not to engage with the river of filth.
Did the 'good protestors' disassociate themselves from the 'bad' ones? What do you think… yourself being a veteran of many protests? Where all and sundry are free to attend?
There was a sign on the gate exhorting all to come in peace and love.
I mean: when the protest leaders were pressing the Government for a meeting, did those protest leaders/organizers, in a gesture of good faith and wise strategy, describe the threatening element of the protest and distance themselves from them and their threatening behaviour, in order that the Government might feel safe in entering into face to face meetings?
There's no evidence currently that the vaccine has caused the widespread harm that you state. There's a long list of possible side effects which have been well documented but the vaccine is as safe/safer than most of the currently available common vaccines for other illness.
I know it's only anecdotal, but in my day to day work, I see the usual mix of illness and injury from all causes. I have seen significant numbers of very sick patients with COVID (who have needed antiviral medication, admission to hospital, sometimes ICU care), as well as flu and RSV. I have also seen a few very strange illnesses brought on by COVID that I've ever seen with flu or any of the other respiratory viruses so I think there's still a lot we will find out in the future about COVID infection that we don't know.
I've seen large numbers of patients with with COVID vaccine side effects but zero serious illness arising from it; I've seen none of the deaths that the COVID vaccine-sceptics allege are in huge numbers throughout the country.
Should this change, and COVID vaccine is found to be as harmful as you think it is, I (and all the other frontline workers) will be the first to change our views. I hope that vaccine sceptics like you will be able to listen to those who are in the best place to know.
….but the vaccine is as safe/safer than most of the currently available common vaccines for other illness.
Interesting you state this as fact.
You have checked out the CARM reports for both the Pfizer product and the flu shots? And seen that the per- dose adverse effect reporting rate is many times higher for the Pfizer shot?
Anedotally…the people I know who have had serious adverse effects from the Pfizer product, and who will never risk another shot, have all had many other 'available common vaccines.'
With nothing other than a sore arm in the way of adverse effects.
As a 'frontline worker, can you tell me who is collecting data specifically from those of us who have not partaken of the Pfizer product and have had Covid 19 and have clearly failed to succumb? Is anyone out there in medical land at all interested in our Covid 19 experiences?
Since there is no longer an actual control group for the Pfizer product (since the original trials were unblinded and the placebo group offered the shot) there is, to my knowledge, no official comparison being made between the two groups.
Being safer does not mean people will have issues with it. And we should be able to discuss this without poopoo'ing peole who have a different opinion on what safe means to them.
Fwiw, i know a whole heep your young women who are enjoying longer periods, heavier bleeding, blood clots the size of two dollar coins etc etc etc since their three jabs. But i guess those that don't menstruate might not consider this a harmful side effect.
at least three people are 'considered' to have died about it, considered as they died pretty much after their shot. [my italics]
That sounds like they died on the spot, which is false/misleading, as myocarditis takes time to develop to a fatal stage (although it can be remarkably fast). Your link mentions death a week after vaccination.
The Centre for Adverse Reactions Monitoring (CARM) has received a number of reports of menstrual disorders or unexpected vaginal bleeding following vaccination with Comirnaty. Medsafe conducted a full review of the cases, as well as the international published literature, and post-marketing safety reports provided by the Sponsor (Pfizer). No evidence was found to suggest a link between vaccination with Comirnaty and menstrual disorders.
Up to and including 30 June 2022, a total of 171 deaths were reported to CARM after the administration of the Comirnaty vaccine. Following medical assessments by CARM and Medsafe it has been determined that:
137 of these deaths are unlikely related to the COVID-19 vaccine
23 deaths could not be assessed due to insufficient information
8 cases are still under investigation.
1 death was determined by the Coroner to be due to myocarditis following first dose Covid-19 (Pfizer) vaccination.
2 deaths were likely due to vaccine induced myocarditis (awaiting Coroner’s determination).
It's a bit like saying the Jews should have personally spoken to Hitler and politely told him he was wrong and to leave them alone. (Not quite sure that's the right image I'm trying to convey!) Perhaps more like the Jan. 6 protestors wanting to speak to the President – no, that’s not quite what I have in mind either! lol
The only thing Jacinda could have told them was – Go home!
She did tell them to “Go home!” Time and time again. A few of the more sane among them took her advice. With a wooden gallows with her name on it in front of Parliament for all to see, there's no way her security detail would have let her go near them. And rightfully so!
Yes. And I'm sure that the powers-that-be told the anti-Springbok Tour protesters to "Go Home!" multiple times as well.
With, I'm sure, equal success.
Regardless of the rhetoric of some of the protesters – it's is undeniable that there were plenty of people who'd never been on a political protest in their lives before. Who packed up their kids, pets and lives, and went down to Wellington to express their profound disapproval of the actions of the Government.
Whether they were 'right' or 'wrong' really doesn't matter. What matters is that they were (and many still are) profoundly convinced that they had a grievance over the way they had been treated by the Government.
Telling them to "Go Home!" is utterly dismissive of them and their concerns. And simply fosters the divisions in NZ society.
Talking to people (even people you dislike and/or think are misguided, pig-headed and just plain wrong) is part of what politicians have to do.
Yes. And I'm sure that the powers-that-be told the anti-Springbok Tour protesters to "Go Home!" multiple times as well.
False equivalence if ever there was one.
Telling them to "Go Home!" is utterly dismissive of them and their concerns. And simply fosters the divisions in NZ society.
Jacinda Ardern did not tell them to "Go home – exclamation mark." That is a false innuendo. She was asked by reporters and journalists to the effect "Have you a message for theprotesters?" On the basis it was an illegal protest, she advised them to "go home." She said it in a calm, measured and respectful tone of voice.
I suggest misrepresenting the prime minister's response to a question is fostering divisions in society.
When you stop trying to bully some commenters and introducing false narratives – presumably because you think it is clever – then I will stop calling you out.
Telling them to “Go Home!” is utterly dismissive of them and their concerns. And simply fosters the divisions in NZ society.
We are talking about a movement deliberately fostering social division and unrest, drawing on overseas tactics and finance. The parliamentary occupation was hardly a one-off.
Politicians refusing to talk with agitators spouting nonsense and threatening violence is not 'fostering division'. There is no security service in the world who would allow a national leader to sit down with those particular people, no matter how many oblivious hippies were alongside them singing and crapping on the lawn.
Do you seriously expect any rational conversation would emerge? Or is it just about helping Tamaki and the nazi hangers-on feel better that they have been heard? We have seen how appeasing fascists turns out. No thanks.
Ardern's tactic over 5 years is: never allow anyone else control the media message. Especially not dirty people.
She's a lot worse than Clark or Key for that: exceedingly brittle.
Ardern is now really struggling to generate any kind of persona different from a set-piece wonder in front of a mike stand – which she did for over a year. Then did more set-piece mike stand wonder for three months this year on the international circuit.
She won't speak to oiks if she doesn't have comms control – and never will.
Don't forget the number of Police deaths following the Jan 6 invasion of the Capitol. Nobody with half a brain is going to put the blame for those on the other defenders of American democratic processes.
You need to remember V you aren't engaging with logic or rational argument. It's a waste of time trying to explain the facts or use logic when those you are responding to aren't.
Went into Farro in Grey Lynn (2nd time ever) on Saturday. Nice place to shop, the way food shopping should be and might have been if we had stopped supermarkets in their tracks 50 years ago. Quality stuff but scarily expensive. Nobody unmasked. Zero. The rich didn't get rich by being irrational.
Yep, I shop at Farro …. with care. It's great for some things (excellent quality meat and cheeses) – but I do the bulk of the grocery shop at Pak n Save.
Just too expensive, otherwise….
Was there on Sunday – at the Constellation Drive store – majority masked – but not all.
A couple of the specialist food shops that I go to occasionally (when the weekend uber-service-for-the-teen takes me in that direction), require masking to enter. I guess that they are sufficiently secure in their customer base, that they can afford to do so.
They do offer a call in and pay online service, with pick up on a table outside – if you are unable to mask for any reason.
Hearing anecdotally from friends in retail, that abuse from the public over requests for mask-wearing is continuing and accelerating – both in highly wealthy areas – Parnell/Remers, etc., and in more middle-class ones (if anything in Auckland can be called middle class, these days!). They're just not willing to have their staff cop the abuse – and nor should they have to.
Observationally – mask-wearing is continuing to drop in general.
I see NRT has made the elementary mistake in the 'plugging to loophole' item available on the feeds of thinking the donations court case on currently is prosecuting either National or Labour. It isn't. It is a prosecution against people who made or facilitated donations.
The loophole (hopefully) being plugged has nothing to do the case/s currently in court.
It's entirely due to the horse-and-cart-sized gap in the legislation that the NZF case revealed.
[I still believe that the judge was wrong in his interpretation of the law – but belt-and-braces – better to legislatively and finally close any apparant loophole]
All parties (or at least all of the ones currently in parliament) are in agreement that this needs to be stopped very firmly indeed. They're only in disagreement about the legal mechanism for doing so (Labour/Greens want to use their current bill; National/Act don't agree with the matters already covered in that bill, and want a separate piece of legislation they can support 100%).
The current case is primarily prosecuting the donors, but also insiders within the parties who facilitated the deception.
Zhang was aided by people on the inside. For the National Party, that was Ross; for the Labour Party, it was one of the men with name suppression and the woman.
NRT incorrectly stated Labour Party officials are currently being prosecuted. They aren't. The link to a press item to the current case is a description of party officials giving evidence as witnesses (not being prosecuted).
Given that the Labour party ‘insiders’ all (apparently) have name suppression – you must have some inside knowledge to state so categorically that they are not Labour Party officials.
Categorically saying that the case isn't prosecuting either National or Labour – is a bit disingenuous.
Because there are very clearly people who 'used to be' party members (I'm sure they've very quickly been given the boot) from both National (JL Ross) and Labour (people with name suppression) who are facing charges alongside the donors.
There is no way that the donors invented this scenario themselves – there were bagmen within the parties who were handling and facilitating this evasion of Electoral law donation reporting requirements.
It may be sloppy language/usage from NRT – but your statement doesn't pass the sniff test, either.
No one is suggesting the Labour Party is perfect. This case is a case against individuals, not political parties. The fact that party officials are testifying as witness supports this. If you have evidence that the two parties (including their officials) are on trial then why don't you provide it, rather than speculating, as NRT did. Finally, if those with name suppression turn out to be party members (I don't know whether that is the case) that does not mean that the political parties were guilty of anything. Asserting they are is simply a further example of misinformation, which is sadly all too common these days.
The mis and disinformation surge has attracted a fair amount of serious treatment here in NZ, in part no doubt due to events like the Christchurch shooting.
The Royal Society has had a couple of decent speakers on the matter.
I encourage people to familiarize themselves with the Disinformation Project, who have put out some study on the occupation of Parliament grounds, and continue to monitor what seem to be a group of bad and/or foreign actors.
Looks like wedge politics to me. A tactic for splitting the left that's as old as the hills. When you go to TBD and hear people who consider themselves to be the 'real' left sounding like right wing libertarians, you know something is afoot.
Easily – once wages and conditions catch up with employer rhetoric.
To date desperate shortages of workers have not caused a lot of pay bumps – it's more common to get one by changing employers than to be offered one in situ.
Not sure what you mean by pay bumps. Friends in hospo are advertising and willing to pay more than $25/hr for kitchen hands, and dishwashers (no experience, just a work ethic – i.e. turn up for their shift)
It's a heck of a lot better than minimum wage or jobseeker benefit.
Do as Tamati Coffey and his partner did, just sell the lease. Let someone else do that. Btw, that lease got sold to some Non Kiwis who are going to put a US Franchise – some rip of Mexican pre-cooked, deep frozen food. You don't really need any staff for that.
I know nothing about Coffey – but know how much strain and pressure that friends in hospo in Auckland have been under in the last couple of years.
Can absolutely understand that it becomes too much, and people want out.
And, yes, lots of hospo businesses fail – and there's an argument that we're exploiting low-wage workers when we dine out (at restaurants keeping prices low).
But what's the alternative — that we only have mega chains (which, BTW have salaries at the rock bottom) and high-priced tourist-dollar fine dining (which I certainly can't afford to go to regularly)?
He and his partner had two Hospo businesses in Vegas on Eat Street. Did ok until they kicked out a lady for not wearing a mask and in the end the town stopped going there. So they sold their lease. It was bigly in the Herald. The reason i say they sold their lease is because if you sell your business usually the name / theme stays. The indian fellow how bought Tamati and his partner out of the 'Our house' and 'Ponsonby' bars will gut the places and put in a US American Franchise that serves gentrified mexican food.
Fwiw, Tamati killed his business by kicking out a Maori lady and it did not go well with the locals.
Yes, when the re-alignment is finished that is what you will have, fast food for the masses and very high priced fatty beef for the rich.
It’s not just about money, although until the minimum wage rises hospo workers were certainly underpaid. It is much more about the bullying, and generally abusive behaviour which is widespread practise by owners and managers and which has been acknowledged publicly by senior players in the restaurant business. This is what really affects the quality of life for people on the bottom rung in hospo. Many of them are permanently sad if not clinically depressed about having to go and spend another shift being treated like shit. I watched my daughters experience in this ‘industry’ for over a decade; heard her work stories and tried to comfort her as the tears fell. I tried to talk her into resigning (after counselling her on how to manage the toxic behaviours failed) , but she was too proud to go on the dole so continued jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire for years as she tried to find a good employer and a workplace with a non-toxic culture. I suppose such places must exist but locating them is a little like trying to translate lead into gold. I have a very jaundiced view of the personality types who decide to invest in an industry which is known to operate on such a perverse business model.
What's on offer ATM is a heck of a lot more than minimum wage.
I agree that some hospo businesses have been dire for bullying and staff welfare (some are good – others often absolutely appalling).
The good news about the worker shortage is that workers can get some of the issues addressed – or just pick up their pay cheque and shift to a better workplace. Or out of the industry into something else (all of those customer-service skills are highly transferrable).
Most of the people I know in hospo are working in small restaurants/cafes/bakeries (just one in a high-profile restaurant) – these are the local businesses that I support, and want to keep running. They improve the quality of my life and my community.
New Zealand has a shortage in synthetic estrogen. Woot Woot!
I am on hormone replacement therapy thanks to a hysterectomy blablabla……
Today i take my refill to the pharmacy and was advised to call well before my patches run out to get a refill as they can not guarantee that they can fill that prescription.
It’s not a surprise that military recruitment has regional variance. Here’s another example of it, but with a different framing:
Looking at each state’s share of recruits by the number of 18-to-24-year-olds in the state determines how well or how poorly a state is doing compared to its recruitable population. By that measure, the top five states in 2016 were: Hawaii, South Carolina, Georgia, Virginia and Florida. The five places with the smallest share of recruits were: Washington D.C., North Dakota, Massachusetts, Rhode Island and New York.
Except that you're comparing apples and oranges. The US has a voluntary professional military. Russia has compulsory service for all able-bodied males between the ages of 18 and 28.
In that they are both types of fruit, yes, but okay. What is similar between the two methods of recruiting is independent access to higher education mostly precludes military service; in Russia if you are a student you aren't subject to conscription and there are numerous other legal ways to avoid it.
Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: My top six things to note around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the week to July 27 were:1. The Minister for Ford Rangers strikes againTransport Minister Simeon Brown was again the busiest of the Cabinet ministers this week, announcing an ...
You got a fast carAnd I want a ticket to anywhereMaybe we make a dealMaybe together we can get somewhereAny place is betterYesterday’s newsletter, Trust In Me, on the report of abuse in state care, and by religious organisations, between 1950 and 2019, coupled with the hypocrisy of Christopher Luxon ...
New Zealand is again having to reconcile conflicting pressures from its military and its trade interests. Should we join Pillar Two of AUKUS and risk compromising our markets in China? For a century after New Zealand was founded in 1840, its external security arrangements and external economics arrangements were aligned. ...
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1. What's not to love about the way the Harris campaign is turning things around?a. Nothingb. Love all of itc. God what a reliefd. Not that it will be by any means easye. All of the above 2. Documents released by the Ministry of Health show Associate Health Minister Casey ...
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TL;DR: The podcast above of the weekly ‘hoon’ webinar for paying subscribers last night features co-hosts and talking about the Royal Commission Inquiry into Abuse in Carereport released this week, and with:The Kākā’s climate correspondent on a UN push to not recognise carbon offset markets and ...
TL;DR: As of 6:00 am on Friday, July 26, the top six announcements, speeches, reports and research around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day are:Transport: Simeon Brown announced$802.9 million in funding for 18 new trains on the Wairarapa and Manawatū rail lines, which ...
The northern expressway extension from Warkworth to Whangarei is likely to require radical changes to legislation if it is going to be built within the foreseeable future. The Government’s powers to purchase land, the planning process and current restrictions on road tolling are all going to need to be changed ...
Text within this block will maintain its original spacing when publishedFirst they came for the doctors But I was confused by the numbers and costs So I didn't speak up Then they came for our police and nurses And I didn't think we could afford those costs anyway So I ...
Photo by Joshua J. Cotten on UnsplashWe’re back again after our mid-winter break. We’re still with the ‘new’ day of the week (Thursday rather than Friday) when we have our ‘hoon’ webinar with paying subscribers to The Kākā for an hour at 5 pm.Jump on this link on YouTube Livestream ...
Notes: This is a free article. Abuse in Care themes are mentioned. Video is at the bottom.BackgroundYesterday’s report into Abuse in Care revealed that at least 1 in 3 of all who went through state and faith based care were abused - often horrifically. At least, because not all survivors ...
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Some of the recent announcements from the government have reminded us of posts we’ve written in the past. Here’s one from early 2020. There were plenty of reactions to the government’s infrastructure announcement a few weeks ago which saw them fund a bunch of big roading projects. One of ...
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Hi,I felt a small wet tongue snaking through one of the holes in my Crocs. It explored my big toe, darting down one side, then the other. “He’s looking for some toe cheese,” said the woman next to me, words that still haunt me to this day.Growing up in New ...
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Please note:To skip directly to the- parliamentary footage in the video, scroll to 1:21 To skip to audio please click on the headphone iconon the left hand side of the screenThis video / audio section is under development. ...
Given the crackdown on wasteful government spending, it behooves me to point to a high profile example of spending by the Luxon government that looks like a big, fat waste of time and money. I’m talking about the deployment of NZDF personnel to support the US-led coalition in the Red ...
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TL;DR: As of 7:00 am on Monday, July 22, the top six announcements, speeches, reports and research around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day are:US President Joe Biden announced via X this morning he would not stand for a second term.Multinational professional services firm ...
A listing of 32 news and opinion articles we found interesting and shared on social media during the past week: Sun, July 14, 2024 thru Sat, July 20, 2024. Story of the week As reflected by preponderance of coverage, our Story of the Week is Project 2025. Until now traveling ...
This weekend, a friend pointed out someone who said they’d like to read my posts, but didn’t want to pay. And my first reaction was sympathy.I’ve already told folks that if they can’t comfortably subscribe, and would like to read, I’d be happy to offer free subscriptions. I don’t want ...
National: The Party of ‘Law and Order’ IntroductionThis weekend, the Government formally kicked off one of their flagship policy programs: a military style boot camp that New Zealand has experimented with over the past 50 years. Cartoon credit: Guy BodyIt’s very popular with the National Party’s Law and Orderimage, ...
Day one of the solo leg of my long journey home begins with my favourite sound: footfalls in an empty street. 5.00 am and it’s already light and already too warm, almost.If I can make the train that leaves Budapest later this hour I could be in Belgrade by nightfall; ...
Do you remember Y2K, the threat that hung over humanity in the closing days of the twentieth century? Horror scenarios of planes falling from the sky, electronic payments failing and ATMs refusing to dispense cash. As for your VCR following instructions and recording your favourite show - forget about it.All ...
Climate Change Minister Simon Watts being questioned by The Kākā’s Bernard Hickey.TL;DR: My top six things to note around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the week to July 20 were:1. A strategy that fails Zero Carbon Act & Paris targetsThe National-ACT-NZ First Coalition Government finally unveiled ...
Summary:As New Zealand loses at least 12 leaders in the public service space of health, climate, and pharmaceuticals, this month alone, directly in response to the Government’s policies and budget choices, what lies ahead may be darker than it appears. Tui examines some of those departures and draws a long ...
The Minister of Housing’s ambition is to reduce markedly the ratio of house prices to household incomes. If his strategy works it would transform the housing market, dramatically changing the prospects of housing as an investment.Leaving aside the Minister’s metaphor of ‘flooding the market’ I do not see how the ...
As previously noted, my historical fantasy piece, set in the fifth-century Mediterranean, was accepted for a Pirate Horror anthology, only for the anthology to later fall through. But in a good bit of news, it turned out that the story could indeed be re-marketed as sword and sorcery. As of ...
An employee of tobacco company Philip Morris International demonstrates a heated tobacco device. Photo: Getty ImagesTL;DR: The top six things I’ve noted around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy on Friday, July 19 are:At a time when the Coalition Government is cutting spending on health, infrastructure, education, housing ...
TL;DR: My pick of the top six links elsewhere around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day or so to 8:30 am on Friday, July 19 are:Scoop: NZ First Minister Casey Costello orders 50% cut to excise tax on heated tobacco products. The minister has ...
Kia ora, it’s time for another Friday roundup, in which we pull together some of the links and stories that caught our eye this week. Feel free to add more in the comments! Our header image this week shows a foggy day in Auckland town, captured by Patrick Reynolds. ...
TL;DR : Here’s the top six items climate news for Aotearoa this week, as selected by Bernard Hickey and The Kākā’s climate correspondent Cathrine Dyer. A discussion recorded yesterday is in the video above and the audio of that sent onto the podcast feed.The Government released its draft Emissions Reduction ...
Save some money, get rich and old, bring it back to Tobacco Road.Bring that dynamite and a crane, blow it up, start all over again.Roll up. Roll up. Or tailor made, if you prefer...Whether you’re selling ciggies, digging for gold, catching dolphins in your nets, or encouraging folks to flutter ...
Waiting In The Wings:For truly, if Trump is America’s un-assassinated Caesar, then J.D. Vance is America’s Octavian, the Republic’s youthful undertaker – and its first Emperor.DONALD TRUMP’S SELECTION of James D. Vance as his running-mate bodes ill for the American republic. A fervent supporter of Viktor Orban, the “illiberal” prime ...
TL;DR: As of 6:00 am on Friday, July 19, the top six announcements, speeches, reports and research around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day are:The PSAannounced the Employment Relations Authority (ERA) had ruled in the PSA’s favour in its case against the Ministry ...
Te Rangi e tu nei (The sky above us) Te Papa e takoto nei (The land beneath us) Tatou katoa te hunga ora (To us all the living) Tena koutou katoa (Greetings) ...
A late change to charter school legislation will cheat educators out of fair pay and negotiating power proving charter schools are just a vehicle to make profit out of our education system. ...
In 2004 te iwi Māori rallied against the Crown’s attempt to confiscate our coastlines and moana with the Foreshore and Seabed Act. This led to the largest hīkoi of a generation and the birth of Te Pāti Māori. 20 years later, history is repeating itself. Today the government has announced ...
It has been five and a half years since the Royal Commission of Inquiry into Abuse in Care was established to investigate the abuse of children, young people, and vulnerable adults within state and faith-based institutions. Yesterday, the final report - Whanaketia through pain and trauma, from darkness to light ...
The Green Party is calling on the Government to take action off the back of the International Court of Justice ruling on Israel’s illegal occupation of Palestine. ...
On Friday the International Court of Justice reaffirmed what Palestinian’s have been telling us for decades: that the occupation and colonisation of Palestinian lands by Israel is illegal and must end immediately. They also called for reparations for Palestinian’s who have lived under Israeli occupation since it began in 1967. ...
Labour calls on the Government to act after the International Court of Justice (ICJ) ruled that Israel’s occupation of Palestinian Territories is illegal. ...
The 53.7 percent rise in benefit sanctions over the last year is more proof of this Government’s disdain for our communities most in need of support. ...
Aotearoa could be a country where every child grows up feeling safe, loved and with a sense of belonging in their whānau and community. But for some of our children, this is far from reality. Instead, they are trapped in a maze of intergenerational harm that they can’t escape on ...
Te Pāti Māori are calling for David Seymour to resign as Associate Health Minister in response to his call for Pharmac to ignore the Treaty of Waitangi. “This announcement is just another example of the government’s anti-Tiriti, anti-Māori agenda.” Said Co-leader and spokesperson for health, Debbie Ngarewa-Packer. “Seymour thinks it ...
The soaring price of renting is driving the rise of inflation in this country - with latest figures from Stats NZ showing rents are up 4.8 per cent on average while annual inflation is at 3.3 per cent. ...
National’s Emissions Reduction Plan will take New Zealand further from the economy we need to ensure the next generation has a stable climate and secure livelihoods. ...
Following consultation with named parties and thorough consideration of privacy interests, the Green Party is in a position to release the Executive Summary of the final report from the independent investigation into Darleen Tana. ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon should be asking serious questions of his Minister for Resources Shane Jones now it’s been revealed he misled the public about a dinner with mining companies that he didn’t declare and said wasn’t pre-arranged. ...
Te Pāti Māori have submitted to the Justice Select Committee against the Sentencing (Reinstating Three Strikes) Amendment Bill. The bill will further entrench racism in our justice system and fails to focus on rehabilitation. “Reinstating Three Strikes will empower a systematically racist system and exacerbate the overrepresentation of Māori in ...
The Transport and Infrastructure Committee is set to make a determination on the Residential Tenancies Amendment (RTA) Bill in the coming weeks. “This legislation will give landlords the power to kick our whānau out onto the street for no reason” said Housing spokesperson, Mariameno Kapa-Kingi. “Their solution to the housing ...
“National’s campaign was about tackling crime and the best they can do is a two-year long Ministerial Advisory Group,” Labour justice spokesperson Duncan Webb said. ...
“There are more examples of charter schools failing their students than there are success stories. The coalition Government is driving to dismantle our public school system and instead promote a privatised, competitive structure that puts profits before kids,” Jan Tinetti said. ...
“This government is choosing to deliberately mislead and withhold information, keeping our people in the dark about this government’s agenda and the future of our mokopuna,” said co-leader and spokesperson for Health, Debbie Ngarewa-Packer. The call comes after the demand from the Chief Ombudsman that Associate Minister of Health, Casey ...
“Today’s climate announcement by Simon Watts makes clear the National Government is simply paying lip service to meeting its climate change targets,” Megan Woods said. ...
National is choosing to make life harder for workers by taking away the rights our communities have fought hard for. Here's how they’re taking workers backwards. ...
Australia, Canada and New Zealand today issued the following statement on the need for an urgent ceasefire in Gaza and the risk of expanded conflict between Hizballah and Israel. The situation in Gaza is catastrophic. The human suffering is unacceptable. It cannot continue. We remain unequivocal in our condemnation of ...
Attorney-General Judith Collins today reminded all State and faith-based institutions of their legal obligation to preserve records relevant to the safety and wellbeing of those in its care. “The Abuse in Care Inquiry’s report has found cases where records of the most vulnerable people in State and faith‑based institutions were ...
Minister of Internal Affairs Brooke van Velden says the Government’s online safety website for children and young people has reached one million page views. “It is great to see so many young people and their families accessing the site Keep It Real Online to learn how to stay safe online, and manage ...
Tēnā tātou katoa, Ngā mihi te rangi, ngā mihi te whenua, ngā mihi ki a koutou, kia ora mai koutou. Thank you for the opportunity to be here and the invitation to speak at this 50th anniversary conference. I acknowledge all those who have gone before us and paved the ...
New Zealand’s payroll providers have successfully prepared to ensure 3.5 million individuals will, from Wednesday next week, be able to keep more of what they earn each pay, says Finance Minister Nicola Willis and Revenue Minister Simon Watts. “The Government's tax policy changes are legally effective from Wednesday. Delivering this tax ...
An experimental vineyard which will help futureproof the wine sector has been opened in Blenheim by Associate Regional Development Minister Mark Patterson. The covered vineyard, based at the New Zealand Wine Centre – Te Pokapū Wāina o Aotearoa, enables controlled environmental conditions. “The research that will be produced at the Experimental ...
The Coalition Government has confirmed the indicative regional breakdown of North Island Weather Event (NIWE) funding for state highway recovery projects funded through Budget 2024, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “Regions in the North Island suffered extensive and devastating damage from Cyclone Gabrielle and the 2023 Auckland Anniversary Floods, and ...
Indonesia’s Foreign Minister, Retno Marsudi, will visit New Zealand next week, Foreign Minister Winston Peters has announced. “Indonesia is important to New Zealand’s security and economic interests and is our closest South East Asian neighbour,” says Mr Peters, who is currently in Laos to engage with South East Asian partners. ...
He aha te kai a te rangatira? He kōrero, he kōrero, he kōrero. The government has reaffirmed its commitment to supporting the aspirations of Ngāti Maniapoto, Minister for Māori Development Tama Potaka says. “My thanks to Te Nehenehenui Trust – Ngāti Maniapoto for bringing their important kōrero to a ministerial ...
Transport Minister Simeon Brown has thanked outgoing Chair of the Civil Aviation Authority, Janice Fredric, for her service to the board.“I have received Ms Fredric’s resignation from the role of Chair of the Civil Aviation Authority,” Mr Brown says.“On behalf of the Government, I want to thank Ms Fredric for ...
The Government is proposing legislation to overturn a Court of Appeal decision and amend the Marine and Coastal Area Act in order to restore Parliament’s test for Customary Marine Title, Treaty Negotiations Minister Paul Goldsmith says. “Section 58 required an applicant group to prove they have exclusively used and occupied ...
Regulation Minister David Seymour says that opposition parties have united in bad faith, opposing what they claim are ‘dangerous changes’ to the Early Childhood Education sector, despite no changes even being proposed yet. “Issues with affordability and availability of early childhood education, and the complexity of its regulation, has led ...
After receiving more than 740 submissions in the first 20 days, Regulation Minister David Seymour is asking the Ministry for Regulation to extend engagement on the early childhood education regulation review by an extra two weeks. “The level of interest has been very high, and from the conversations I’ve been ...
The Coalition Government is investing $802.9 million into the Wairarapa and Manawatū rail lines as part of a funding agreement with the NZ Transport Agency (NZTA), KiwiRail, and the Greater Wellington and Horizons Regional Councils to deliver more reliable services for commuters in the lower North Island, Transport Minister Simeon ...
Local Government Minister Simeon Brown has announced his intention to appoint a Crown Manager to both Hawke’s Bay Regional and Wairoa District Councils to speed up the delivery of flood protection work in Wairoa."Recent severe weather events in Wairoa this year, combined with damage from Cyclone Gabrielle in 2023 have ...
Mr Speaker, this is a day that many New Zealanders who were abused in State care never thought would come. It’s the day that this Parliament accepts, with deep sorrow and regret, the Report of the Royal Commission of Inquiry into Abuse in Care. At the heart of this report are the ...
For the first time, the Government is formally acknowledging some children and young people at Lake Alice Psychiatric Hospital experienced torture. The final report of the Royal Commission of Inquiry into Abuse in State and Faith-based Care “Whanaketia – through pain and trauma, from darkness to light,” was tabled in Parliament ...
The Government has acknowledged the nearly 2,400 courageous survivors who shared their experiences during the Royal Commission of Inquiry into Historical Abuse in State and Faith-Based Care. The final report from the largest and most complex public inquiry ever held in New Zealand, the Royal Commission Inquiry “Whanaketia – through ...
With a week to go before hard-working New Zealanders see personal income tax relief for the first time in fourteen years, 513,000 people have used the Budget tax calculator to see how much they will benefit, says Finance Minister Nicola Willis. “Tax relief is long overdue. From next Wednesday, personal income ...
Workplace Relations and Safety Minister Brooke van Velden says a bill that has passed its first reading will improve parental leave settings and give non-biological parents more flexibility as primary carer for their child. The Regulatory Systems Amendment Bill (No3), passed its first reading this morning. “It includes a change ...
Two Bills designed to improve regulation and make it easier to do business have passed their first reading in Parliament, says Economic Development Minister Melissa Lee. The Regulatory Systems (Economic Development) Amendment Bill and Regulatory Systems (Immigration and Workforce) Amendment Bill make key changes to legislation administered by the Ministry ...
New legislation paves the way for greater competition in sectors such as banking and electricity, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly says. “Competitive markets boost productivity, create employment opportunities and lift living standards. To support competition, we need good quality regulation but, unfortunately, a recent OECD report ranked New ...
Minister of Internal Affairs Brooke van Velden says lotteries for charitable purposes, such as those run by the Heart Foundation, Coastguard NZ, and local hospices, will soon be allowed to operate online permanently. “Under current laws, these fundraising lotteries are only allowed to operate online until October 2024, after which ...
The Coalition Government is accelerating work on the new four-lane expressway between Auckland and Whangārei as part of its Roads of National Significance programme, with an accelerated delivery model to deliver this project faster and more efficiently, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “For too long, the lack of resilient transport connections ...
Sir Don McKinnon will travel to Viet Nam this week as a Special Envoy of the Government, Foreign Minister Winston Peters has announced. “It is important that the Government give due recognition to the significant contributions that General Secretary Nguyen Phu Trong made to New Zealand-Viet Nam relations,” Mr ...
Minister of Internal Affairs Brooke van Velden says newly appointed Commissioner, Grant Illingworth KC, will help deliver the report for the first phase of the Royal Commission of Inquiry into COVID-19 Lessons, due on 28 November 2024. “I am pleased to announce that Mr Illingworth will commence his appointment as ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters travels to Laos this week to participate in a series of Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN)-led Ministerial meetings in Vientiane. “ASEAN plays an important role in supporting a peaceful, stable and prosperous Indo-Pacific,” Mr Peters says. “This will be our third visit to ...
Construction of a new mental health facility at Te Nikau Grey Hospital in Greymouth is today one step closer, Mental Health Minister Matt Doocey says. “This $27 million facility shows this Government is delivering on its promise to boost mental health care and improve front line services,” Mr Doocey says. ...
New Zealand is committing nearly $50 million to a package supporting sustainable Pacific fisheries development over the next four years, Foreign Minister Winston Peters and Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones announced today. “This support consisting of a range of initiatives demonstrates New Zealand’s commitment to assisting our Pacific partners ...
Associate Education Minister David Seymour says proposed changes to the Education and Training Amendment Bill will ensure charter schools have more flexibility to negotiate employment agreements and are equipped with the right teaching resources. “Cabinet has agreed to progress an amendment which means unions will not be able to initiate ...
In response to serious concerns around oversight, overspend and a significant deterioration in financial outlook, the Board of Health New Zealand will be replaced with a Commissioner, Health Minister Dr Shane Reti announced today. “The previous government’s botched health reforms have created significant financial challenges at Health NZ that, without ...
Minister for Space and Science, Innovation and Technology Judith Collins will travel to Adelaide tomorrow for space and science engagements, including speaking at the Australian Space Forum. While there she will also have meetings and visits with a focus on space, biotechnology and innovation. “New Zealand has a thriving space ...
Climate Change Minister Simon Watts will travel to China on Saturday to attend the Ministerial on Climate Action meeting held in Wuhan. “Attending the Ministerial on Climate Action is an opportunity to advocate for New Zealand climate priorities and engage with our key partners on climate action,” Mr Watts says. ...
Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones is travelling to the Solomon Islands tomorrow for meetings with his counterparts from around the Pacific supporting collective management of the region’s fisheries. The 23rd Pacific Islands Forum Fisheries Committee and the 5th Regional Fisheries Ministers’ Meeting in Honiara from 23 to 26 July ...
The Government today launched the Military Style Academy Pilot at Te Au rere a te Tonga Youth Justice residence in Palmerston North, an important part of the Government’s plan to crackdown on youth crime and getting youth offenders back on track, Minister for Children, Karen Chhour said today. “On the ...
The Government has welcomed news the NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) has begun work to replace nine priority bridges across the country to ensure our state highway network remains resilient, reliable, and efficient for road users, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says.“Increasing productivity and economic growth is a key priority for the ...
Acting Prime Minister David Seymour has been in contact throughout the evening with senior officials who have coordinated a whole of government response to the global IT outage and can provide an update. The Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet has designated the National Emergency Management Agency as the ...
New Zealand and Japan will continue to step up their shared engagement with the Pacific, Foreign Minister Winston Peters says. “New Zealand and Japan have a strong, shared interest in a free, open and stable Pacific Islands region,” Mr Peters says. “We are pleased to be finding more ways ...
New developments in the heart of North Island forestry country will reinvigorate their communities and boost economic development, Regional Development Minister Shane Jones says. Mr Jones visited Kaingaroa and Kawerau in Bay of Plenty today to open a landmark community centre in the former and a new connecting road in ...
President Adeang, fellow Ministers, honourable Diet Member Horii, Ambassadors, distinguished guests. Minasama, konnichiwa, and good afternoon, everyone. Distinguished guests, it’s a pleasure to be here with you today to talk about New Zealand’s foreign policy reset, the reasons for it, the values that underpin it, and how it ...
Last summer when Matairangi burned, Ginny and Tom stood at the window of their lounge, watching kākā shoot skyward from the burning trees. From the distance, they looked to Ginny like pages torn from books and thrown into a bonfire. It was Tom, voice tight, who told her it was ...
Opinion: The Canadian short story writer Alice Munro – winner of the Nobel Prize in Literature in 2013 – died in May at the age of 92. Her work was about “the damage people inflict on one another in the name of love”, Deborah Treisman wrote in the New Yorker. ...
This month marks two years since the most powerful telescope ever built sent its first pictures back to earth. From its lofty vantage point, beyond the moon in orbit around the sun, the James Webb Space Telescope was tuned to observe the first stars and galaxies being born soon after ...
Comment: After Climate Change Minister Simon Watts’ preview several weeks ago, I had some optimism about the Government’s emissions reduction plan. Now I’ve read the discussion document, that hope has been dashed. How can the Government propose a plan that wants to take New Zealand taxpayers’ hard-earned money, and spend ...
Christopher Luxon: hurdles The little man from National jumps hurdles in his sleep. He’s quite good at it in his dreams and even though the reality doesn’t quite match up you have to give him credit for getting up every morning and crashing into the very first hurdle of the ...
Comment: It was a good two hours into the conversation when Tyrone Marks raised the most basic of questions when I first spoke to him in 2017. “They didn’t explain the things they did to me. They never told me why. And they still haven’t. There’s no explanation for it. ...
Madeleine Chapman rounds out Death Week on The Spinoff with a final recommendation. You can read all of our Death Week coverage here. Nothing forces you to reflect on your life and relationships quite like proximity to death. For those whose nearest and dearest have died, there are reasonably obvious ...
Whitney Greene takes us through her life in television, including the TV character she’d like to plan a funeral for and her cow lung catastrophe on The Traitors NZ. “If the phone rings, I have to answer it,” Whitney Greene from The Traitors NZ warns as we begin our My ...
Maddie Ballard reviews the debut essay collection of Pōneke writer Flora Feltham.In ‘The Raw Material’, the longest essay in Flora Feltham’s dazzling debut collection, the author heads out for a run after hours of weaving and sees the world turn to textile. “Pounding along the Parade, I saw the ...
Andy Christiansen, one half of the experimental rock-pop duo TRiPS, shares the tunes inspiring the band’s perfect weekend and new release. “Good speakers, good food, good music, no distractions”: that’s all you need to enjoy the psychedelic stylings of TRiPS, a new band formed by Fly My Pretties’ Barnaby Weir ...
Celebrating our quadrennial opportunity to become experts in a bunch of sports we never normally watch.The games of the XXXIII Olympiad are upon us. Paris will host this year’s showcase of sporting and athletic prowess, which means some late-night and early-morning viewing for us in Aotearoa.But what sports ...
The photograph is striking and beautiful, but also disturbing – a reminder that my love for John was often entangled in shame.The Sunday Essay is made possible thanks to the support of Creative New Zealand.In the spring of 1980, in Dunedin, shortly before his death, someone took a photograph ...
Get to know Babushka, our latest Dog of the Month. This feature was offered as a reward during our What’s Eating Aotearoa PledgeMe campaign. Thank you to Babu’s humans, Jo and Isabel, for their support. Dog name: Babushka (Babu for short) Age: 2Breed: Border Collie X poodleIf rescued, ...
Pacific Media Watch A Lebanese photojournalist who was severely wounded during an Israeli air strike in south Lebanon carried the Olympic torch in Paris this week in honour of her peers who have been wounded and killed in the field — especially in Gaza and Lebanon. Christina Assi of Agence ...
The first report in a five-part web series focused on the 15th Triennial Conference of Pacific Women taking place in the Marshall Islands this week.SPECIAL REPORT:By Netani Rika in Majuro Women continue to fight for justice 70 years after the first nuclear tests by the United States caused ...
Christopher Luxon has joined with Australia and Canada's leaders in voicing support for US President Joe Biden's ceasefire deal between Israel and Hamas. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra The 2022 election brought the “teal wave” into parliament. The next election will test whether teals, who occupy what were Liberal seats, and other independents can maintain their momentum. Joining us on the Podcast ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Ian Musgrave, Senior lecturer in Pharmacology, University of Adelaide Pixavri/Shutterstock A major Federal Court class action has been dismissed this week after Justice Michael Lee ruled there was not enough evidence to prove the weedkiller Roundup causes cancer. Plaintiff Kelvin ...
In The Week in Politics: politicians have to decide what to do about child abuse, Health NZ is booked in for major surgery and Darleen Tana returns. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Clare Corbould, Associate Professor, Contemporary Histories Research Group, Deakin University Mainstream media are surprisingly muted at the prospect of the world’s most powerful nation being led for the first time by a woman – specifically a woman of colour, Vice President Kamala ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Rebecca Bennett, PhD Student, Associate Research Fellow, Deakin University Last week, a drone delivery company called Wing (owned by Google’s parent company, Alphabet) started operating in Melbourne. Some 250,000 residents in parts of the city’s eastern suburbs can now order food from ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Jonathan Foo, Lecturer, Physiotherapy, Monash University pikselstock/Shutterstock In the next 40 years in Australia, it’s predicted the number of Australians aged 65 and over will more than double, while the number of people aged 85 and over will more than triple. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Katrina Grant, Research Associate, Power Institute for Arts and Visual Culture, University of Sydney Jonas Åkerström’s 1790 work, Session of the Accademia dell’Arcadia on August 17 1788.Nationalmuseum/Cecilia Heisser Ever wondered whether you’d have a better chance at winning an Olympic gold ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Alexandra Jones, Program Lead, Food Governance, George Institute for Global Health wavebreakmedia/Shutterstock On Thursday, Australian and New Zealand food ministers at state, federal and national levels met to thrash out what’s next for health star ratings on packaged foods. Now, after ...
The Abuse in Care report found many Pacific survivors lost their connections to their culture and language, resulting in trauma that has been carried from generation to generation. ...
In the regulatory review, ECC intends to suggest that ERO focus on curriculum delivery reviews rather than the Ministry, because it’s not efficient or effective to have two agencies with radically different approaches climbing over each other. ...
Te Rūnanga Nui o Ngā Kura Kaupapa Māori invites the current government to work in partnership with them to develop a pathway forward, including the development of a parallel pathway and meaningful policy and strategy for Kura Kaupapa Māori ...
If you haven’t started watching yet, Tara Ward begs you to reconsider. This is an excerpt from our weekly pop culture newsletter Rec Room. Sign up here. In the world of New Zealand reality television, we have many gems in our crown. There’s the delicious second season of the Celebrity Treasure ...
A new poem by Fiona Kidman. The clothes of the dead I did not keep my mother’s furry red beret for long nor the stringy scarves that adorned the necks of my aunts, although I have kept tag ends of gold, the rings and trinkets they wore, the brooches no ...
The government’s announcement that it will re-open the foreshore and seabed controversy by changing the rules on recognising centuries-old Māori customary title for a third time goes against the rule of law and New Zealand values,” Mr Tipa says. ...
The only published and available best-selling indie book chart in New Zealand is the top 10 sales list recorded every week at Unity Books’ stores in High St, Auckland, and Willis St, Wellington.AUCKLAND1 Lioness by Emily Perkins (Bloomsbury, $25) Roarrrr! Perkins’ brilliant, award-winning, Marian-Keyes anointed, darkly funny, long ...
The 2004 Act vested ownership of the foreshore and seabed in the Crown, extinguishing any Māori claims to ownership and causing widespread outrage and protests among Māori communities. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Antje Deckert, Associate Professor (Criminology), Auckland University of Technology Getty Images Despite the connection between institutional harm and gang membership made clear in this week’s mammoth royal commission abuse-in care report, the government seems unlikely to soften its “get tough on ...
From Lewis Clareburt in the swimming to the start of the rowing – the first seven days of Paris 2024 promise to be big for New Zealand. There are few events that bring the country together quite like an Olympic Games. Nothing quite matches the excitement of getting up in ...
Groundbreaking local science just showed up in the most surprising of places: the season finale of The Kardashians. In the season five finale of The Kardashians last night, several members of the family gathered together in one of their signature empty, cream-coloured rooms to hear test results that had been ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Amin Saikal, Emeritus professor of Middle Eastern and Central Asian Studies, Australian National University The Middle East is on the brink of a possibly devastating regional war, with hostilities between Israel and Hezbollah reaching an extremely dangerous level. Washington has engaged in ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Laura Elizabeth Eades, Rheumatologist, Monash University Lupus is an inflammatory autoimmune illness, where the body’s immune system mistakenly attacks itself. Lupus can affect virtually any part of the body, although it most commonly affects the skin, joints and kidneys. The symptoms ...
A law firm that specialises in working with survivors of abuse in State care is disappointed that the Government fails to recognise that its boot camps can be directly compared to previous boot camps from the 1990s and 2000s. ...
Dying is a natural part of life, like updating your Wof or seeing your hairdresser, but without the word-of-mouth recs that help guarantee a good service. What if we changed that? Dying Reviews received by The Spinoff have had the names of organisations redacted while Hospice NZ collects further data. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Jonti Horner, Professor (Astrophysics), University of Southern Queensland Mike Lewinski/Flickr, CC BY On any clear night, if you gaze skywards long enough, chances are you’ll see a meteor streaking through the sky. Some nights, however, are better than others. At ...
Despite having no bars or other designated spaces for lesbians, Auckland boasts a small but mighty lesbian museum. So how did it get here? The past 18 months has brought increasing hostility towards the queer community across Aotearoa. Kellie-Jay Keen-Minshull’s anti-trans rally in Tamaki Makaurau last March led to a ...
Poneke Antifascist Coalition has invited Wellingtonians to stand in solidarity with the Kanak people at 12pm today outside the French Embassy in Wellington. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Peter Layton, Visiting Fellow, Strategic Studies, Griffith University Drones are the signature technology of the Ukraine war. A few miniature aircraft designs were used in the war’s early days, but an incredible array of drones have now evolved. There are different types, ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Mark Slee, Associate Professor, Clinical Academic Neurologist, Flinders University Francisco Gonzelez/Unsplash Migraine is many things, but one thing it’s not is “just a headache”. “Migraine” comes from the Greek word “hemicrania”, referring to the common experience of migraine being predominantly ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Lee White, Senior Lecturer and Horizon Fellow, School of Social and Political Sciences, University of Sydney Australia was slow to introduce minimum building standards for energy efficiency. The Nationwide House Energy Rating Scheme (NatHERS) only came into force in 2003. Older homes ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Steven Sherwood, Professor of Atmospheric Sciences, Climate Change Research Centre, UNSW Sydney The past century of human-induced warming has increased rainfall variability over 75% of the Earth’s land area – particularly over Australia, Europe and eastern North America, new research shows. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Tony Heynen, Program Coordinator, Sustainable Energy, The University of Queensland A temporary stadium in the Champ-de-Mars, ParisEkaterina Pokrovsky/Shutterstock As Paris prepares to host the Olympic and Paralympic Games, the sustainability of the event is coming under scrutiny. The organisers have promoted ...
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Guyon Espiner's interview with the PM this morning was, on the surface, robust. But the extraordinary thing about the interview, and the follow up discussion with the political editor, was how it was framed as a vigorous defense by the journalists of the neoliberal status quo – tax cuts are more efficient, the government itself is the problem for not following the advice of neoliberal civil service, the issue for the journalists seems to be the very concept of an active government.
Lately we've been hearing an increasingly hysterical defense from National and most of the establishment MSM of the Thatcher/Reagan monetarist settlement and demands we return to that status quo with the usual prescription austerity, running down of government services, tax cuts for the rich, wage suppression via unchecked immigration and housing bubbles.
With the rise of dark money propaganda – which of which will be subject of zero curiosity or scrutiny from an establishment MSM happy to re-print press releases from a thicket of false fronts set up by the the likes of Jordan Williams – It is going to be a very dirty election in 2023. A lot of fat cats are relying on the right returning us to the true path of Rogernomics and they are willing to pay what it takes.
Just listened to both the interview (linked above) and the follow up with Jane Patterson (it's the second topic she addresses, after the proposed legislative change to close the NZF electoral donations loophole)
https://www.rnz.co.nz/audio/player?audio_id=2018851597
I didn't hear any "vigorous defence by the journalists of the neoliberal status quo" It's the job of journalists to ask hard questions – I'm sure many listeners would have been wondering 'why not tax cuts?' – which I thought that Ardern answered very effectively (tax cuts are inflationary long term, the targeted payment is less inflationary, and is short term)
The points made by Patterson in the follow-up were:
I think the payment is a farce, short term populist rubbish , cut taxs on under $30 000 and pay for it with a raise on $70 000 and above ,
Ironically I get the payment because last year I was under the cut off even though this year I'm above the cut off.
And many partners with disabilities don't get it because they had no earnings and get neither a benefit nor ACC.
This is a very much abandoned group – when I started work many employers paid an extra allowance for people who had non-working partners, you could claim a tax rebate if your partner earned under a certain amount and a few other things like life insurance rebates.
Now all the costs fall on the one partner exacerbated by Labours decision to remove underage partners from NZS.
Many of us who care for unwell partners will be working well past 65 simply to get the mortgage paid off and to try and save some money for retirement once that as done. The extra $6,000 to $7,000 in tax I pay over a couple earning the same amount each year over the last 30 years is the difference between paying my mortgage off already and being in Kiwisaver.
I'm still fortunate however that I have been in a position where I have been able to support my partner. This isn't the case for many.
Very few people in politics advocate for this group. Peter Dunne was probably the last. It does grate a little, despite understanding the practical aspects as to why this has occurred, that people overseas are getting this payment while non-working partners get zilch. Many like mine have worked in the past when well – it wouldn't be impossible to set up a system where they could apply for the payment.
metadata
David Parker was on Morning Report today saying that 1% of the cost of living payments would have gone to the wrong people.
Later on Morning Report (or maybe it was at the start of Nine to Noon) I heard that there is a mechanism to repay wrong payments and a mechanism to stop the next two payments simply by gong to the website if somebody is receiving the payment wrongly.
Yet again the media, including RNZ, is going well over the top and misleading the public in order to slam Labour.
Meanwhile on this afternoon's RNZ Panel people came on saying the $350 would be very useful as a short term alleviating measure. And David Slack made the point that this is a measure in addition to raising benefits, Working for Family and raising the minimum wage and increasing the winter fuel allowance, which are far more important measures helping the low paid implemented by this government.
Totally agree with you Sanctuary.
The Espiner interview was an attempt to create a political storm around a minor glitch in the Cost of Living Payment to those on the lowest incomes. The vast majority of payments are going to people living in NZ, but a minority living overseas have been caught up in the system – as was expected. The amount involved will be infinitesimal in the scheme of things. Jacinda Ardern clearly and succinctly explained the problem and it was simply brushed aside by Espiner as if she had never said anything.
A calculated storm in a tea cup designed to be a supposed example of "sloppy policy done on the hoof" as postulated by Jane Patterson, whose cynical and often inaccurate analysis of government action and policies prompted me long ago to rarely listen to them.
The sense I got from both those interviews is that they were pandering to the middle classes who resent even a small payment to those on the lowest incomes at a time of considerable financial stress.
Agree Sanc. It was a maddeningly stupid piece of radio. But anything that is targeted will have problems at the boundary. Either individual injustices over who is included and who is not, or administrative issues of insufficient information to draw the boundary cleanly. It's a primary reason why universality is a good principle in social policy. If you can get support for it. Labour's caution on universality and insistence on targeting causes problems for themselves.
Also, interesting 2016 piece from the Rand corporation on Fascist Russia's "Firehose of Falsehood" propaganda techniques, the effectiveness of which is played out frequently on this site in relation the Ukraine war and whose malign hand can, IMHO, be seen in the online support for Trumpism.
Thought this was an interesting take on whether NZ is becoming a more angry society – referencing organization psychologist John Eatwell.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/the-front-page-guns-rage-and-racism-has-nz-become-an-angry-nation/DGE5QSKOBBWHWUFQV3CWXBFGPM/?c_id=1&objectid=12541740&ref=rss
Some take-aways:
Key quote
And that there's a ripple effect. Being kind ripples outwards – as does being angry and/or unkind. We can all make a difference….
Yes. Caught my eye at 5 am and I was immediately struck by the complete inappropriateness of the attached photo.
Guns! Rage! Racism!
And a photo of a bearded chubby white dude being led away by two cops.
Didn't see where it says he was arrested (and eye gouged by the cops) when he and his mates at the Freedom Village were defending the Precious Portaloos from being removed by the cops.
Didn't see any photos of his mates…arms linked and all jammed together…who were predominantly Maori.
These people were unarmed.
No guns. No racism. And any rage was understandable in the face of the cops trying to make real the "river of filth" narrative.
I'd say to the mainstream government funded media "Do better."
But they're way beyond retrieval.
Alienating and marginalizing is a pretty core social control mechanism.
We tend to be intolerant of liars, and of those that offer violence.
The Freedum crowd offered a range of both – why should they then enjoy immunity to the normal responses their anti-social behaviour invites? If we treat their false (and known to be malicious) grievances with undeserved respect, we will get even more of this dangerous folly.
Police should have moved them off on day one.
One question Stuart Munro.
Do you know of anyone who had such a severe reaction to a Pfizer injection that they would not risk having another?
Someone who thought their heart was going to explode, perhaps?
We tend to be intolerant of liars, and of those that offer violence.
Is there any chance of you seeing this from the point of view of the Pfizer injured? That they were lied to when told it was safe? That they see the mandates as an actual physical threat? Along the lines of…"Take another shot of what put you in the hospital or you'll lose your job."
I know a fellow who suffered a stroke the day he was vaccinated, and, initially many of us thought that the vaccination was a factor. He was not detected early, spent a month in hospital and still has significant loss of function. But it transpires that the vaccination was not a factor.
I'm afraid that the people beating up the antivax rhetoric are simply not to be trusted. They have an agenda to obtain power or notoriety or money, and they do not serve those with anomalous medical outcomes in any way whatsoever. They are quacks and charlatans, and must be treated severely to deter both other prospective charlatans, and to make it crystal clear to naive members of the public that these scum are not competent medical authorities, nor are they worthy of their sympathy.
Now, if you have a group of Pfizer injured persons, I am sure that competent medical practitioners will go to considerable lengths to find them alternative treatment options – but obdurate ignorant antivaxxers should not expect to work in medicine or education.
"…Didn't see where it says he was arrested (and eye gouged by the cops) when he and his mates at the Freedom Village were defending the Precious Portaloos from being removed by the cops….
Oh dear. You be crazy.
You're going to have to do better than that Sanctuary.
Perfect example of continuing to alienate and marginalize…..
Hey, if someone says something crazy, I call them crazy. Call me old fashioned, but there it is.
Sane people can say crazy things, QED.
Rosemary's like a dog with a bone on this issue. That can't be healthy, given the fight-back she gets every time she brings it up here.
From this distance Rosemary appears to pick and choose examples and positions in order to bolster her beliefs. No doubt we all do that and when we do, it's useful (and healthy) to acknowledge that tendency and attend to it as far as we can; self-analysis and positive introspection seems a useful tool in forging a balanced, realistic world-view.
Probably not helping the discussion, but I do like to put my spoke in whenever there's passion in a discussion 🙂
From this distance Rosemary appears to pick and choose examples and positions in order to bolster her beliefs.
You care to give examples of where I have done this? I think I have been very consistent in my position on this issue.
I am healthy, thanks. I don't really care what 'fight-back' I get on this issue here on TS. I expect the usual responses from the usual people…all very ho hum.
I do feel it is important that an alternative viewpoint is entered into these discussions. Else the record will not be reflective of the reality.
A bit disappointing that there is so little sympathy here for those who had severe adverse effects from the Pfizer product.
And I simply can't believe that I am the only person who comments here who has spoken to people who had such a severe reaction to one Pfizer shot that they would not ever risk having another.
Regarding inoculations, immunisations and medical science in general. Medical science, including endless jabs, and medications have kept me alive since the day I was born.(70.25)
So forgive my skepticism about a minute number of millions of vaccines, having side effects, and causing angst.
I'm one of those (I suspect very many) people who hasn't spoken to (or seen first-hand) anyone with a severe reaction to being jabbed with the Pfizer stuff.
But even if I had, that wouldn't have put me off getting my five vaccinations (so far) this year. Boosters 1 (in Jan) and 2 (in July) against Covid, plus the annual jab against influenza, and (a first for me) two (Shingrix) vaccinations against shingles, which my GP reckons will last at least 7 years, so that's good.
I have not met any person with serious adverse reactions caused by the Pfizer vaccine, which is telling with over 11 million shots administered in NZ (and through work I meet and hear of a lot of people). I have many friends and colleagues who did get Covid and were feeling pretty crook from it. I had a few very distant relatives overseas dying from Covid.
All the hype around Covid-19 and the new ‘experimental’ mRNA vaccines certainly increased anxiety levels among many. I was hesitant too, waited a long time before I got my shots, and did my research homework first.
https://theconversation.com/anticipating-a-side-effect-makes-it-more-likely-youll-experience-it-this-could-contribute-to-vaccine-hesitancy-180331
Probably reality falls in between. I think Rosemary both exaggerates and doesn't have the skill or the willingness to parse severe adverse reaction from panic attack from coincidence.
but likewise, there are people who did have reactions, this was being discussed last year in medical circles. Severe to you might mean carditis. For someone with an autoimmune disease it might mean a relapse that few other people notice. Many of those people won't be recorded well in the medical systems. Haven't looked in a while but I doubt much research is being done. And afaik the Pfizer testing excluded people with chronic illnesses.
I have heard of some major reactions, as I would expect with any immunisation programme of this scale.
The population-level benefits of this public health initiative outweigh those individual harms, unfortunately. I do not know of any way to reverse that without causing more harm to more people.
This is very much like a world war. Collective action, individual sacrifice. Been the same for centuries. We are not special. People get hurt so that others may be free from it.
Our feelings about that do not outweigh or veto other sources of evidence or the body of professional expertise about what works. I would not wish on anyone the burden of the decisions that have been made in our name over the last few years. Glad to see Ashley Bloomfield getting out in one piece.
The population-level benefits of this public health initiative outweigh those individual harms, unfortunately. I do not know of any way to reverse that without causing more harm to more people.
How about telling potential Pfizer product recipients that there are risks associated with the product, and for some people the risks from the product might outweigh the risk to them personally from being infected with the virus?
If they are in the 'high risk of serious illness, hospitalisation and death' category due to age, or co- morbidities then there might well be a sound argument for taking the Pfizer product.
(https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33716331/)
There is no justification, in public health terms, for mandating a product that fails to prevent infection or transmission of the target pathogen.
And there is something extremely weird in telling someone (who is at very little risk of serious illness from Covid) that they have to have a second or third shot when they have recovered from the serious adverse effects from the last one in order to keep their job.
A bit like sending a seriously injured soldier back to the front when the stump has healed over.
Gosh all those public health experts must be wrong then.
Risks were communicated.
Like I say, wartime not business as usual. Needs of the many, etc.
This is pretty much how I see it too. The thing that would make a difference is if as a society stepped up and helped the people harmed. Even knowing what Labour and the MoH are like, I'm still disappointed we didn't do better on this. Collective action cuts both ways if we want to retain it as an ethic.
I think Rosemary both exaggerates and doesn't have the skill or the willingness to parse severe adverse reaction from panic attack from coincidence.
Really? Panic attack? Hmmm…shall we have a discussion about how it was initially denied that myocarditis and pericarditis were an issue?
Do I need to remind you, yet again, that although there was an alert put out by the MOH in July 2021, officials felt it necessary to issue another, more strongly worded alert to all medial professionals in late December 2021?
https://www.medsafe.govt.nz/safety/Alerts/comirnaty-myocarditis-reminder.html
A lot of fuss and bother for panic attacks.
You could, out of respect to the people who took the trouble to report adverse events, peruse the CARM reports for the past 18 months … https://www.medsafe.govt.nz/COVID-19/vaccine-report-overview.asp
…..and compare the rates of reports for the Pfizer product with the rates of reports for the flu shots. https://www.medsafe.govt.nz/safety/reports-and-promotion/Spontaneous-Reports-Influenza-Vaccination-2020.asp
And notice that the rate is many times higher per dose for the former.
And can you tell me why there is no mandatory reporting of adverse events for a product using a novel technology? ( If I am wrong about this I am happy to be corrected.)
Btw. None of the four people I know who had heart issues post Pfizer shot are the panicking type. Not at all. All of them willingly took the shot. None of them would take another. Ever.
What's the relationship between the two things? When I raise panic attacks and the inability of some to understand the importance of assessing effect and understanding correlation =/= causation, why do you pivot to the shortcomings of the mainstream medical health system? Is that a deflection?
Ok, so maybe you missed the point massively. Some people got carditis from the vaccine. Some people died from that. Some people had panic attacks or other health issues and blamed the vaccine when there was no direct causation. Can you honestly not see the difference?
I have no idea what point you are trying to make here, and if you won't spell it out I'm not going searching on links to try and parse it.
Dunno, maybe because GPs and nurses have no easy way of assessing what is an adverse reaction in an individual and what isn't?
What heart issues? I've said it before. If this is a huge problem, then set up websites, lay out case studies, make the case. If you want to be taken seriously, that's the mahi you have to do.
I'm not even saying you are wrong. I'm saying that each step of the way you've presented confused and relatively useless anectdotes. I say this as someone with a solid respect for anecdata, but to be useful and credible it has to presented in ways that have rationales and meaning beyond belief.
You've also repeatedly signalled that you don't understand fundamentals of evidence.
and please don't come at me as if I'm not fully aware of teh shortcomings of mainstream medicine. I'm so sick of the binary thinking.
yes there were death in NZ due to the Vaccine.
https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/new-zealand-links-26-year-old-mans-death-pfizer-covid-19-vaccine-2021-12-20/
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/465103/ministry-of-health-announces-third-death-linked-to-vaccine
my search term: Young man dies of vaccination in NZ
i rememberd that young guy from the South Island.
So yes, people in NZ had adverse reaction to the vaccines and some died.
this might also be interesting to read
https://www.nzdoctor.co.nz/article/educate/practice/shot-bro-adverse-cutaneous-reactions-following-covid-19-vaccination
more on that here
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300585151/covid19-side-effects-survey-reassuring-vaccines-are-working-as-expected–report
a clip with Gower – Pro Vax Kiwis struggle for support after adverse reactions to the vaccine
So statistically safer than crossing the street.
Good to know.
that young guy from the South Island.
Rory. Rory Nairn.
I know that the Dunedin man died. Lots of people have died in the pandemic. This is the shit hand we have been dealt. As Sacha points out, it's a risk assessment of the best way to limit deaths.
https://www.medsafe.govt.nz/safety/reports-and-promotion/Spontaneous-Reports-Influenza-Vaccination-2021.asp
People with autoimmune disorders were advised to discuss Covid vaccination with their specialist first, as their medication could also interfere with the intended immune response to the vaccine (i.e. lower effectivity).
The booster put me on my back for a couple of days despite me not being especially delicate or congenital. Would I regard that as serious – of course not. There's a spectrum of unpleasant temporary side effects you might get from a vaccination but they're on a spectrum of relative norms one might expect with any vaccination when your body starts producing antibodies.
that's the medical view. A lesser adverse reaction to an already disabled person can be serious and not noticed by the system. I thought that was clear from my previous comment.
And? No-one knew what was going to happen to whole swathes of people with chronic illnesses. Still don't largely, because the research hasn't been done.
Around this time last year my mid 20s rugby head pig hunting chippie nephew came over all-a-flutter with post-vaccination tachycardia. His father had him to the ED within the hour. He was admitted and had an echocardiogram the following morning. He was given rhythm control medication, booked to see a specialist, put off work and discharged with an order to do absolutely nothing.
He was diagnosed with a vaccine injury but was back at work within the month. He was medicated for a while and they kept a weather eye on him and by Christmas he'd come right. Recently he got the okay to resume footie training and chasing things around in the scrub.
It could have been very different had his father not had the wit to get him to the ED.
Good that it was recognised and checked out. Acute arrhythmias after Covid appear to be rather harmless, but one can never be sure with that vital muscle. Based on your information, he’d be one of 106 reported in NZ in that age group of males (with twice as many females of the same age).
Harmless perhaps but still bloody distressing for a young man who's never had to sit still in his life. But as soon as he started feeling better, wow. A pain in the arse is understating it.
True, that.
More bitter and twisted, I think – and deluded into thinking the Natz would be better?
So binary in your thinking.
The whole 'If you're not for us you must be a National voter…' is just so lazy.
"Perfect example of continuing to alienate and margilise". Spot on as usual Belladonna and thanks for the bullet points re this article.
"need to acknowledge the anger rather than just putting it down to misinformation"
Exactly. Went you right off peoples concerns by labelling them as mad or bad and don't acknowledge thier emotions it builds anger. Not an exact quote.
And yes "charismatic" leaders like Leo and Brian are around to tap into that anger.
Why should we give a shit about their feelings, good bad or indifferent? I don't get this assumption I should lose sleep over risking hurting the feelings of people who had the collective common sense of a startled Llama and delusions worthy of disciples of Atë.
Why should we give a shit about their feelings?
Oh, I don't know…it would be the human thing to do? It'd be kind? It would be recognition of the fact that not all Kiwis share your views and your experiences?
You need to feel the Love, brother.
https://odysee.com/@voicesforfreedom:6/freedom-village-parliament:2
That's a bit unfair to Llamas – they are known for their awareness and intelligence.
My apologies to all llamas reading this site, Jordan Williams made me do it.
"why should we give a shit about their feelings"
My understanding of what the psychologist from the link above was saying is if we don't acknowledge peoples feelings, then that feeling (of anger) stays with them, and they are less likely to be open to logic and new information (I am not referring to you here Rosemary I am talking generally).
If we have angry citizens who feel their feelings have not been heard the likes of Brian Tamaki and Leo Molloy will likely swoop them up. This is what I think happened or is part of what happened with Trump and Brexit.
If the Govt brings in a piece of legislation that has a major impact on peoples circumstances, I think they have a duty to listen to them.
I guess this works both ways:
If a rowdy mob comes into "town" causing trouble, disruption over many weeks (on tax and rate-payers costs), they have to understand people of that town (and wider region / country) are really angry, too… and people are still waiting for acknowledgement by and apology from the protesters for "shitting in their backyard".
And where does the government drawing a line on this one:
Do they have to listen to each and every one of them? Do they have to listen to 51%, 66%, 90% or even 99.9% of the people? Was there ever a legislation with nearly 100% support?
Will you acknowledge the emotions of the white supremacy guys?
Are you offended by their being labeled "mad" and "bad"?
In all fairness, you will be, yes?
Robert Guyton to answer your question about White Supremists and acknoleging their feelings the answer for me is I don't know. I would take advice from the clever forensic psychologist people on that one. I have never come across a white supremicist in my life. I think when I have come across prejudice, the best approach is to ask questions in a way that makes people have to reflect on their views and account for them. If you shut them done, then they are left with their prejudice, which goes unchallenged.
It is interested that on the left there is a "don't give a shit about their feelings" at one end of the spectrum and at the other, "they hurt my feelings lets cancel them"
a mid way is surely best?
Thanks, Anker. There were people among the protest crowd that held white supremist views, including violent intentions toward politicians.
Should those politicians have met, in person, with those people?
'You seem angry and deranged. Hang on, put down that club.'
Feelings are not the only thing in the world.
The chap from the "occupation" who posted that "when this is over and we win I am going to eat Neve" – deserves nothing but contempt. Likewise the crowd of losers who live up the road from me and have had misogynistic and anti-vax conspiracy nonsense painted on their van for months. They live in what could be called "transitional" housing -a bunch of portacabins plonked in an old car yard with a shared kitchen and bathroom. The Police are there regularly. They were at the occupation – which was probably the most exciting thing that they have done since their last drug deal.
And on the topic of alienating and marginalising the angry and disenfranchised….
https://www.stuff.co.nz/taranaki-daily-news/news/300647265/veteran-officer-leaves-police-for-new-life-as-a-tractor-salesman
A better than average piece from Stuffed, and rather than doing the reading for you ….I'll copy and paste the gist and leave it to the veteran cop to speak for himself.
Well worth reading the entire piece as this cop has had the experience and done the hard yards when it comes to engaging with communities.
Nine nights at the anti-vaccine mandate protest in Wellington prompted a veteran Taranaki police officer to seek a new start.
For much of the 32 years, two months and two days former senior constable Jono Erwood, of Stratford, spent in the police he loved it.
But he was already thinking about a change in career when he was called on to help at the occupation on Parliament grounds.
Being amongst the hatred and conflict during the 23-day protest in Wellington in February only set that in stone.
“New Zealanders are better than what I saw there and experienced,” he said.
“Over those nights I had some good chats with some guys about why they were there, understanding and showing some empathy, treating them with respect.
“There were some people with genuine reasons for being there, some good people, but there were others who just wanted to have a crack at the police.”
Erwood said he felt the prime minister’s refusal to meet with the protestors occupying Parliament grounds had made things worse.
“I think Jacinda could have dealt with the situation better. If I have a problem with someone, I’ll go to see them and have a cup of tea. She never gave them an opportunity, never went to just listen – but then, hindsight is a wonderful thing,” he said.
During the protest, Ardern said focussing on the pandemic was top of her mind and the extremist language emanating from the protest was why the Government had refused to talk to the protesters.
As the protest went on, every party in Parliament also signed on to a joint-statement saying they will not talk to the convoy protesters until they stop breaking the law.
"She never gave them an opportunity, never went to just listen"
Rosemary, there was a rich vein of filth, if not a river, in that particular protest. Some of them were making death threats, some were making death lists. To paint it as a crowd of the misunderstood is dishonest.
Q-anon, white supremacists, Trump flags (just why?) & Tamaki's twisted theocracy thrown in with some anti-vax, anti-science, tin foil hats…
Sure in hindsight some things could have been done better but this was a mob of disparate ideologies thrown together by opportunistic assholes. Talking to that crowd would be like trying to talk Trump supporters off their ledge. Provide facts for one thing they scream another idiotic bumper sticker dreamed up by Alex Jones (or add wingnut media here) at you. Just endless chaos.
Aligning with them was the mistake genuine protestors made.
Personally I would find it difficult to imagine any circumstance where I could have had a constructive meeting with a bunch of unhinged lunatics who had spent weeks brandishing a noose whilst muttering my name when they were not howling various cray cray conspiracy theories not rooted in any sort of objective reality.
But maybe that is just me. Maybe.
The Left, eh, and their violence.
https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2022/02/20/guest-blog-suzie-dawson-remembering-the-left/
I don't know. The noose or the guillotine?
I am struggling to understand how it is all fine and dandy for the so- called Left to behead life sized photographs of sitting MPs who are on a mission to sell off state assets, but it is completely unacceptable for the injured and frightened to visually remind an unsympathetic government and their pet media that in the not too distant past those who forced experimental medical treatments onto people were resoundingly punished.
You were there? In Wellington? Or some very close to you who you can trust to give an accurate assessment of the type of people who were there?
Did you perhaps watch/listen/read anything about the protest that didn't originate from MSM?
Or are you simply parroting what the government and their paid stenographers broadcast?
And what would the cop in the article know…eh? The one who was there…on the ground…speaking with the protestors…the good, the bad and the downright ugly?
The vast majority of those assembled in Wellington were peaceful, and wanted an end to the unjustified vaccine mandates and recognition that for some, too many, the Pfizer product is anything but safe.
A very successful campaign by the government and their paid up media ensured that these voices were silenced, and the rantings of the small minority of nutbars was amplified.
A tactic as old as politics.
Well this is NZ, so I had two nieces who had daily views of the Wellington “protest” from their daily grind as
worthy and conscientious civil servantszombie enablers of the dark combinations of the illuminati.One thought it an unsanitary and pointless outdoor commentary on two decades of under investment in mental health and the other was abused on three occasions walking to walk so was an early and enthusiastic advocate for the use of extreme police violence to clear them out.
I know half a dozen of the protestors who were there, and others who blindly support them. They lost touch with reality some time ago. They speak in a hodge podge of half facts they glean from ridiculous right-wing 'media', religion and outright conspiracy.
One, who's known me so long he absolutely knows better, accused me of being a government shill.
Plot – lost.
All the folks with genuine concerns found themselves shiny new friends online. Not happy with the official narrative, they let themselves be led by the nose into forming a mob. An abusive mob.
Lie with dogs, get fleas, etc.
To save us all the tedium of going round and round the same old argument, can yoi please present the evidence you to support that statement?
The argument here isn't that there weren't good people at the protest. It's that there were people there causing a lot of different problems alongside the good ones, and the good ones didn't address that and still don't/won't.
Your comments consistently come across as denial that problematic people exist/ed.
Yes, I did. I followed people on twitter who were on the ground.
I'll also point out that the MSM isn't a hive mind, and reading MSM increases one's understanding of the situation where one has a critical mind and an ability to parse bias.
Did you read much MSM coverage that took a more evenhanded approach?
How come you seem largely unaware of the problems within the protest?
How come you seem largely unaware of the problems within the protest?
I am responding to just this question…to nutshell the issue. I have seeds to sow and seedlings to prick out and plants to water and sheep to tend.
How about you show me where exactly I have stated that all the Freedom Village protestors were peaceful and non violent? You won't be able to, because I have never said that.
I have said that the overwhelming majority were. Peaceful. This is a fact that even the police and security services acknowledged.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/covid-19-wellington-protest-security-service-reports-detail-realistic-possibility-of-terror-attack-threat-from-peaceful-anti-vax-movement/TD6G32WUBVNAL7D2TRLHLNJT5Q/
Intelligence assessments into the anti-vax movement say there is a "realistic possibility" a violent protest or terrorist act could be carried out by extremist elements linked to the "overwhelmingly peaceful" opposition to the Covid-19 vaccine.
Four separate assessments into the anti-vax movements show a shift in concern from February last year through to November.
And the reports, released through the Official Information Act, show an escalation in warnings from June onwards with the prediction Covid-19 "mitigation" efforts – vaccine mandates and passports – would be "likely to have an impact on the New Zealand terrorism threat environment over the near-to medium-term".
While the intelligence reports repeatedly emphasise the broadly peaceful nature of the anti-vax movements, they highlight the vaccine mandates and passport as particular policies that might drive an individual to violence and the presence of extremist elements.
The contrast between June and November is striking as the earlier CTAG assessments predicted any acts of violence as likely to be "an isolated instance of violent protest rather than an act of terrorism".
By November, CTAG found the risk exacerbated by increasingly violent online rhetoric and people among anti-vax groups with personal grievances and extremist beliefs.
The assessments accurately forecasted growing social division and protest if New Zealand went down the path of mandates and vaccine passports.
The reports – or at least the content – would have been made available to Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and at least some Cabinet ministers ahead of making the decision to pursue the mandates and vaccine passports. It shows the decision to forge ahead with a public health approach wasn't made without knowledge it could spark strong opposition.
The Prime Minister's office did not respond to a request for comment.
I have posted this particular article here on TS a couple of times. (As evidence that I do read mainstream media) This is not indicative of me being in denial that there were undesirable elements and influences at the periphery of the Freedom Village.
The government were warned that imposing mandates would create an environment ripe for growing protest and civil unrest. And violence.
But the government went ahead and imposed the mandates anyway, with no acknowledgement of those who had already rolled their sleeves up and been injured in the process. There were threats that jobs would be lost, and participation in normal society would be denied.
And Jacinda the Kind gloated…she poured petrol on smouldering embers, and gloated. Only fools would not expect a backlash after this standout performance.
Rosemary – regarding an audience with the PM – surely it was the responsibility of the non-violent, non-threat-making, non-aligned-with-dangerous-elements folk who wished to meet with the MPs and PM, to differentiate themselves, distance themselves from those elements that should not be granted such a meeting?
Did the "good guys" do that, making it clear to the politicians that the meeting would not endanger them? If that didn't happen (I believe it didn't happen) then the failure to broker such a meeting sits with the "good" protesters, not the parliamentarians, imo. I'd like to hear your view on this.
Of course some groups tried to get the attention of the House…with the view to speak on behalf of the vaccine injured and those medial professionals with real concerns about the mRNA shots and the measurable negative effects of lockdowns and mask wearing for all. All MPs were instructed not to engage with the river of filth.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-omicron-convoy-protest-trevor-mallard-outlines-terms-for-mps-to-engage-with-protesters/AK4RTKQFCN3KOXK7RSLVECMVIE/
I think you know this already.
My question was (and still is) did those groups clearly dissociate themselves from the mad fringe?
If not, being rejected by the politicians is hardly a surprise.
Keen for your answer.
This is tedious Robert.
Did the 'good protestors' disassociate themselves from the 'bad' ones? What do you think… yourself being a veteran of many protests? Where all and sundry are free to attend?
There was a sign on the gate exhorting all to come in peace and love.
What does that imply?
Perhaps I wasn't clear, Rosemary, sorry.
I mean: when the protest leaders were pressing the Government for a meeting, did those protest leaders/organizers, in a gesture of good faith and wise strategy, describe the threatening element of the protest and distance themselves from them and their threatening behaviour, in order that the Government might feel safe in entering into face to face meetings?
Hi, Rosemary
There's no evidence currently that the vaccine has caused the widespread harm that you state. There's a long list of possible side effects which have been well documented but the vaccine is as safe/safer than most of the currently available common vaccines for other illness.
I know it's only anecdotal, but in my day to day work, I see the usual mix of illness and injury from all causes. I have seen significant numbers of very sick patients with COVID (who have needed antiviral medication, admission to hospital, sometimes ICU care), as well as flu and RSV. I have also seen a few very strange illnesses brought on by COVID that I've ever seen with flu or any of the other respiratory viruses so I think there's still a lot we will find out in the future about COVID infection that we don't know.
I've seen large numbers of patients with with COVID vaccine side effects but zero serious illness arising from it; I've seen none of the deaths that the COVID vaccine-sceptics allege are in huge numbers throughout the country.
Should this change, and COVID vaccine is found to be as harmful as you think it is, I (and all the other frontline workers) will be the first to change our views. I hope that vaccine sceptics like you will be able to listen to those who are in the best place to know.
….but the vaccine is as safe/safer than most of the currently available common vaccines for other illness.
Interesting you state this as fact.
You have checked out the CARM reports for both the Pfizer product and the flu shots? And seen that the per- dose adverse effect reporting rate is many times higher for the Pfizer shot?
Anedotally…the people I know who have had serious adverse effects from the Pfizer product, and who will never risk another shot, have all had many other 'available common vaccines.'
With nothing other than a sore arm in the way of adverse effects.
As a 'frontline worker, can you tell me who is collecting data specifically from those of us who have not partaken of the Pfizer product and have had Covid 19 and have clearly failed to succumb? Is anyone out there in medical land at all interested in our Covid 19 experiences?
Since there is no longer an actual control group for the Pfizer product (since the original trials were unblinded and the placebo group offered the shot) there is, to my knowledge, no official comparison being made between the two groups.
Pity…medical science has been poorly served here.
at least three people are 'considered' to have died about it, considered as they died pretty much after their shot.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/465103/ministry-of-health-announces-third-death-linked-to-vaccine
that is easily found via google.
Being safer does not mean people will have issues with it. And we should be able to discuss this without poopoo'ing peole who have a different opinion on what safe means to them.
Fwiw, i know a whole heep your young women who are enjoying longer periods, heavier bleeding, blood clots the size of two dollar coins etc etc etc since their three jabs. But i guess those that don't menstruate might not consider this a harmful side effect.
That sounds like they died on the spot, which is false/misleading, as myocarditis takes time to develop to a fatal stage (although it can be remarkably fast). Your link mentions death a week after vaccination.
https://www.medsafe.govt.nz/safety/Alerts/comirnaty-menstrual-disorders.asp
Monitoring ongoing.
https://www.medsafe.govt.nz/COVID-19/safety-report-44.asp
It's a bit like saying the Jews should have personally spoken to Hitler and politely told him he was wrong and to leave them alone. (Not quite sure that's the right image I'm trying to convey!) Perhaps more like the Jan. 6 protestors wanting to speak to the President – no, that’s not quite what I have in mind either! lol
The only thing Jacinda could have told them was – Go home!
I can image how that would have gone down!
She did tell them to “Go home!” Time and time again. A few of the more sane among them took her advice. With a wooden gallows with her name on it in front of Parliament for all to see, there's no way her security detail would have let her go near them. And rightfully so!
Yes. And I'm sure that the powers-that-be told the anti-Springbok Tour protesters to "Go Home!" multiple times as well.
With, I'm sure, equal success.
Regardless of the rhetoric of some of the protesters – it's is undeniable that there were plenty of people who'd never been on a political protest in their lives before. Who packed up their kids, pets and lives, and went down to Wellington to express their profound disapproval of the actions of the Government.
Whether they were 'right' or 'wrong' really doesn't matter. What matters is that they were (and many still are) profoundly convinced that they had a grievance over the way they had been treated by the Government.
Telling them to "Go Home!" is utterly dismissive of them and their concerns. And simply fosters the divisions in NZ society.
Talking to people (even people you dislike and/or think are misguided, pig-headed and just plain wrong) is part of what politicians have to do.
False equivalence if ever there was one.
Jacinda Ardern did not tell them to "Go home – exclamation mark." That is a false innuendo. She was asked by reporters and journalists to the effect "Have you a message for the protesters?" On the basis it was an illegal protest, she advised them to "go home." She said it in a calm, measured and respectful tone of voice.
I suggest misrepresenting the prime minister's response to a question is fostering divisions in society.
Have a look at what you quoted above (complete with exclamation mark).
If you got it wrong, don't blame me for your errors.
My errors.![laugh laugh](https://cdn2.thestandard.org.nz/wp-content/plugins/ark-wysiwyg-comment-editor/ckeditor/plugins/smiley/images/teeth_smile.png?x42494)
Glad you're acknowledging them.
When you stop trying to bully some commenters and introducing false narratives – presumably because you think it is clever – then I will stop calling you out.
When you can actually read your own quotes – then I'll stop calling you out.
We are talking about a movement deliberately fostering social division and unrest, drawing on overseas tactics and finance. The parliamentary occupation was hardly a one-off.
Politicians refusing to talk with agitators spouting nonsense and threatening violence is not 'fostering division'. There is no security service in the world who would allow a national leader to sit down with those particular people, no matter how many oblivious hippies were alongside them singing and crapping on the lawn.
Do you seriously expect any rational conversation would emerge? Or is it just about helping Tamaki and the nazi hangers-on feel better that they have been heard? We have seen how appeasing fascists turns out. No thanks.
We are talking about a movement deliberately fostering social division
No Sacha.
This deliberately fostered social division…
Again, the experts must be wrong. Those more open to reason can read the links Stuart kindly provided below at #10.
I love the Battle of the Binaries.
"And on the topic of alienating and marginalising the angry and disenfranchised…."
So, Rosemary, do you feel the white supremists, "angry and disenfranchised", should be accorded the same courtesy as you recommend above?
Ardern's tactic over 5 years is: never allow anyone else control the media message. Especially not dirty people.
She's a lot worse than Clark or Key for that: exceedingly brittle.
Ardern is now really struggling to generate any kind of persona different from a set-piece wonder in front of a mike stand – which she did for over a year. Then did more set-piece mike stand wonder for three months this year on the international circuit.
She won't speak to oiks if she doesn't have comms control – and never will.
When you write, "oiks" do you mean those folk who carried a gallows to the steps of Parliament?
Those "oiks"?
That's weird. When I want the PM to hear me I email her office.
You could try a letter if you're more traditional – postage is free to Parliament.
Thanks Rosemary. This cops story support what the psychologist was saying in the interview.
Don't forget the number of Police deaths following the Jan 6 invasion of the Capitol. Nobody with half a brain is going to put the blame for those on the other defenders of American democratic processes.
You need to remember V you aren't engaging with logic or rational argument. It's a waste of time trying to explain the facts or use logic when those you are responding to aren't.
Went into Farro in Grey Lynn (2nd time ever) on Saturday. Nice place to shop, the way food shopping should be and might have been if we had stopped supermarkets in their tracks 50 years ago. Quality stuff but scarily expensive. Nobody unmasked. Zero. The rich didn't get rich by being irrational.
Yep, I shop at Farro …. with care. It's great for some things (excellent quality meat and cheeses) – but I do the bulk of the grocery shop at Pak n Save.
Just too expensive, otherwise….
Was there on Sunday – at the Constellation Drive store – majority masked – but not all.
A couple of the specialist food shops that I go to occasionally (when the weekend uber-service-for-the-teen takes me in that direction), require masking to enter. I guess that they are sufficiently secure in their customer base, that they can afford to do so.
They do offer a call in and pay online service, with pick up on a table outside – if you are unable to mask for any reason.
Hearing anecdotally from friends in retail, that abuse from the public over requests for mask-wearing is continuing and accelerating – both in highly wealthy areas – Parnell/Remers, etc., and in more middle-class ones (if anything in Auckland can be called middle class, these days!). They're just not willing to have their staff cop the abuse – and nor should they have to.
Observationally – mask-wearing is continuing to drop in general.
Pak'n'Save Mt Albert this morning – store very busy – saw 2 people only without masks.
At Glenfield Mall this afternoon (had to drop in and collect something from a shop) – approx 10% masked…..
I see NRT has made the elementary mistake in the 'plugging to loophole' item available on the feeds of thinking the donations court case on currently is prosecuting either National or Labour. It isn't. It is a prosecution against people who made or facilitated donations.
The loophole (hopefully) being plugged has nothing to do the case/s currently in court.
It's entirely due to the horse-and-cart-sized gap in the legislation that the NZF case revealed.
[I still believe that the judge was wrong in his interpretation of the law – but belt-and-braces – better to legislatively and finally close any apparant loophole]
All parties (or at least all of the ones currently in parliament) are in agreement that this needs to be stopped very firmly indeed. They're only in disagreement about the legal mechanism for doing so (Labour/Greens want to use their current bill; National/Act don't agree with the matters already covered in that bill, and want a separate piece of legislation they can support 100%).
The current case is primarily prosecuting the donors, but also insiders within the parties who facilitated the deception.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/129380629/paintings-wine-coverups-and-a-royal-honour–crowns-case-in-political-party-donations-trial
NRT incorrectly stated Labour Party officials are currently being prosecuted. They aren't. The link to a press item to the current case is a description of party officials giving evidence as witnesses (not being prosecuted).
Given that the Labour party ‘insiders’ all (apparently) have name suppression – you must have some inside knowledge to state so categorically that they are not Labour Party officials.
No – I just know how to read and not to make things up.
Categorically saying that the case isn't prosecuting either National or Labour – is a bit disingenuous.
Because there are very clearly people who 'used to be' party members (I'm sure they've very quickly been given the boot) from both National (JL Ross) and Labour (people with name suppression) who are facing charges alongside the donors.
There is no way that the donors invented this scenario themselves – there were bagmen within the parties who were handling and facilitating this evasion of Electoral law donation reporting requirements.
It may be sloppy language/usage from NRT – but your statement doesn't pass the sniff test, either.
Keep changing your story and you might eventually get to what I actually said about the NRT comment.
Keep dodging and diving, and you just might approach reality.
You can only keep pretending that Labour is perfect for so long…..
Your quote
” prosecuting either National or Labour. It isn’t. It is a prosecution against people who made or facilitated donations.”
Reality: The people being prosecuted include both the donors and people who were (at the time) inside the party facilitating the donations.
There are no clean hands here….
It can be a mucky business, Politics; dirty even.
No one is suggesting the Labour Party is perfect. This case is a case against individuals, not political parties. The fact that party officials are testifying as witness supports this. If you have evidence that the two parties (including their officials) are on trial then why don't you provide it, rather than speculating, as NRT did. Finally, if those with name suppression turn out to be party members (I don't know whether that is the case) that does not mean that the political parties were guilty of anything. Asserting they are is simply a further example of misinformation, which is sadly all too common these days.
The mis and disinformation surge has attracted a fair amount of serious treatment here in NZ, in part no doubt due to events like the Christchurch shooting.
The Royal Society has had a couple of decent speakers on the matter.
I encourage people to familiarize themselves with the Disinformation Project, who have put out some study on the occupation of Parliament grounds, and continue to monitor what seem to be a group of bad and/or foreign actors.
Byron Clark also has a well researched article on the occupation, which, oddly, even has links to the New Federal State of China campaign.
Looks like wedge politics to me. A tactic for splitting the left that's as old as the hills. When you go to TBD and hear people who consider themselves to be the 'real' left sounding like right wing libertarians, you know something is afoot.
If so, it's a new variant – Trumpism seems to be a factor.
The Murdochization of our media has chained the watchdogs that once guarded our state from malicious actions of this kind.
So here's a question for you pundit prophets.
GDP growth is unstable but still good.
Gross domestic product: March 2022 quarter | Stats NZ
Unemployment is very low at 3.2% with underutilisation at 9%.
Unemployment rate remains at 3.2 percent | Stats NZ
But now the borders have flung open to our inbound tourists as of 29 July. So demand for tourism jobs and travel jobs is skyrocketing.
Thousands of roles up for grabs at Auckland Airport job fair (1news.co.nz)
And competition between companies for staff is just massive.
We're going to have to start pulling more out of NEETS, long term welfare dependency, and jail to do good stuff.
So can we get to 2.5% unemployed?
So can we get to 2.5% unemployed?
Easily – once wages and conditions catch up with employer rhetoric.
To date desperate shortages of workers have not caused a lot of pay bumps – it's more common to get one by changing employers than to be offered one in situ.
Not sure what you mean by pay bumps. Friends in hospo are advertising and willing to pay more than $25/hr for kitchen hands, and dishwashers (no experience, just a work ethic – i.e. turn up for their shift)
It's a heck of a lot better than minimum wage or jobseeker benefit.
Do as Tamati Coffey and his partner did, just sell the lease. Let someone else do that. Btw, that lease got sold to some Non Kiwis who are going to put a US Franchise – some rip of Mexican pre-cooked, deep frozen food. You don't really need any staff for that.
I know nothing about Coffey – but know how much strain and pressure that friends in hospo in Auckland have been under in the last couple of years.
Can absolutely understand that it becomes too much, and people want out.
And, yes, lots of hospo businesses fail – and there's an argument that we're exploiting low-wage workers when we dine out (at restaurants keeping prices low).
But what's the alternative — that we only have mega chains (which, BTW have salaries at the rock bottom) and high-priced tourist-dollar fine dining (which I certainly can't afford to go to regularly)?
He and his partner had two Hospo businesses in Vegas on Eat Street. Did ok until they kicked out a lady for not wearing a mask and in the end the town stopped going there. So they sold their lease. It was bigly in the Herald. The reason i say they sold their lease is because if you sell your business usually the name / theme stays. The indian fellow how bought Tamati and his partner out of the 'Our house' and 'Ponsonby' bars will gut the places and put in a US American Franchise that serves gentrified mexican food.
Fwiw, Tamati killed his business by kicking out a Maori lady and it did not go well with the locals.
Yes, when the re-alignment is finished that is what you will have, fast food for the masses and very high priced fatty beef for the rich.
It’s not just about money, although until the minimum wage rises hospo workers were certainly underpaid. It is much more about the bullying, and generally abusive behaviour which is widespread practise by owners and managers and which has been acknowledged publicly by senior players in the restaurant business. This is what really affects the quality of life for people on the bottom rung in hospo. Many of them are permanently sad if not clinically depressed about having to go and spend another shift being treated like shit. I watched my daughters experience in this ‘industry’ for over a decade; heard her work stories and tried to comfort her as the tears fell. I tried to talk her into resigning (after counselling her on how to manage the toxic behaviours failed) , but she was too proud to go on the dole so continued jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire for years as she tried to find a good employer and a workplace with a non-toxic culture. I suppose such places must exist but locating them is a little like trying to translate lead into gold. I have a very jaundiced view of the personality types who decide to invest in an industry which is known to operate on such a perverse business model.
What's on offer ATM is a heck of a lot more than minimum wage.
I agree that some hospo businesses have been dire for bullying and staff welfare (some are good – others often absolutely appalling).
The good news about the worker shortage is that workers can get some of the issues addressed – or just pick up their pay cheque and shift to a better workplace. Or out of the industry into something else (all of those customer-service skills are highly transferrable).
Most of the people I know in hospo are working in small restaurants/cafes/bakeries (just one in a high-profile restaurant) – these are the local businesses that I support, and want to keep running. They improve the quality of my life and my community.
New Zealand has a shortage in synthetic estrogen. Woot Woot!
I am on hormone replacement therapy thanks to a hysterectomy blablabla……
Today i take my refill to the pharmacy and was advised to call well before my patches run out to get a refill as they can not guarantee that they can fill that prescription.
Oh well. I guess its just the times.
Ethnic Russians remain safely tucked up at home while poor minorities from the
coloniesautonomous regions do all the suffering and dying.Sounds familiar.
https://twitter.com/kamilkazani/status/1553773561659154434
https://twitter.com/kamilkazani/status/1553777099634364418
It’s not a surprise that military recruitment has regional variance. Here’s another example of it, but with a different framing:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckdevore/2020/02/19/states-that-defend-uswhere-do-our-military-volunteers-call-home/?sh=3dfd638c534c
Except that you're comparing apples and oranges. The US has a voluntary professional military. Russia has compulsory service for all able-bodied males between the ages of 18 and 28.
In that they are both types of fruit, yes, but okay. What is similar between the two methods of recruiting is independent access to higher education mostly precludes military service; in Russia if you are a student you aren't subject to conscription and there are numerous other legal ways to avoid it.
in the us you join the army to get an education and medical care. lol