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Open mike 01/11/2022

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, November 1st, 2022 - 78 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:


Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

78 comments on “Open mike 01/11/2022 ”

  1. Sanctuary 1

    The alternative water "plan" put forward by Mayor Boomer and his two cockie mates yesterday is what happens when you lose control of a political narrative and instead turn your political management settings to "strolling towards suicide". I mean, Boomer and mates have basically proposed they be allowed unaccountable access to a pile of public money to do wjhat they may or may not want to do. “Let us do what you want, or not, but in any event give all the money to spend as we please”. Just imagine the reaction if a Maori group came up with a similar idea!

    Labour has allowed three waters to drag on and on and on and on. In putting Mahuta in charge of the process – an almost deliberately provocative act – they provided an optics Godsend to their opponents, who in the absense of a strong government PR game have been enabled to dogwhistle a white racist backlash against the concept of co-governance whilst mobilising around issues of "local democracy". And it doesn't help that Mahuta -who is also foreign minister after all – has hardly been stellar (to be polite, others might use words like "missing in action" or "incompetent") in her (lack of) proactive political management of the job of selling three waters.

    That has delivered at the recent local bosdy elections a slew of right wing mayors elected by conservative white voters with an implicit culture war mandate. They are bitterly opposed to progressive policies and they have no problem in bad faith dealings if it helps further their agenda.

    The media sense the political vacuum and smell blood and with their usual bullying group think they are piling on with active connivance – allowing Mayor Boomer to announce his new plan yesterday and not take any questions (instead the non entity from Waimakariri has been doing the media) without commenting on this fact is an act of political connivance, as is over-looking whether or not these mayors even have a mandate from their councils for this plan.

    Labour can't afford this issue to drag into the new year. Either ram it through under urgency or dump it.

    • Bearded Git 1.1

      I think you give far too much credibility to Wayne Brown Sanc. He is clearly a nutter-witness the way he operates.

      https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/local-government/130332317/auckland-mayor-sprang-three-waters-alternative-on-council-with-8-minutes-notice

      • Sanctuary 1.1.1

        Mayor Boomer is an idiot. It is clearly part of a larger political project – a disruptive anti-labour comms strategy being driven by Matthew Hooten.

        However, the point is Hooten wouldn't be the mayor's puppet master if white conservative voters hadn't been galvanised by the right's exploitation of the government’s poor political management.

        • Bearded Git 1.1.1.1

          Sanc-I agree totally that the perception management of 3 Waters has been a disaster from the start-and it still is.

          What to do though? Put Megan Woods or Michael Wood in charge?

          • weka 1.1.1.1.1

            give it to the Greens who know how to work with people and bring them along (notable exception notwithstanding)

            • Sanctuary 1.1.1.1.1.1

              Is this post satirical?

              You mean like the anti-smacking bill, kinda like the way Sue Bradford “took people along” on that? because that little bit of Green "people power" cost Labour nine years in opposition.

              The Greens consistantly rely on forming an elite consensus to get Green policy over the line, which is why they never get any Green policy over the line.

              The only wins the Greens ever get is when they own the conservatives by scoffing Miraka Kirimi on twitter.

              • weka

                is that post satire? Like the voice of a grumpy old school leftie who can't understand how green politics works?

                I was thinking of climate in terms of policy but there are plenty of examples. Remember how Labour was stuck in FPP thinking but couldn't get enough votes to gain power, and the Greens opened the door for campaigning on changing the government and working together. That was relationship building.

                The reason the Greens are good at it, is because it's built into their kaupapa. From the charter,

                Appropriate Decision-making

                For the implementation of ecological wisdom and social responsibility, decisions will be made directly at the appropriate level by those affected.

                Non-Violence

                Non-violent conflict resolution is the process by which ecological wisdom, social responsibility and appropriate decision making will be implemented. This principle applies at all levels.

                https://www.greens.org.nz/charter

                See the bit about decisions being made by those affected? Labour work against that, they've tried to impose their own ideas on a population of people who are resistant, and they don't know how to go back to people and work it through. Because they're old school lefties who have neoliberalised and still think power is about who can attain it rather than who can share it.

        • Binders full of Women 1.1.1.2

          Seems to be a lot of Boomer ageist hate going down here… And while I disagree with you I support your right to say it…But get it all out of your system cos Kiri's gonna make it illegal nek year. I'll get my hate in early too…I ffing HATE Poto & TUT for demolishing the huts.

    • AB 1.2

      whilst mobilising around issues of "local democracy"

      Yep – it's this pretense that they are defenders of 'localism' that is particularly galling. These guys inherently prioritise the economic interests of one portion of their local communities – farming and business – over others. These interests are traditionally handed the right to extract water from the environment at no cost, add pollutants to it (nitrates, animal effluent, etc.), then return it to the environment, also at no cost. Their wealth depends on this privatisation of the 'gifts of nature.' Any centralised structure, change in funding arrangements or co-governance interest from Maori, is a potential threat to this cosy, private wealth-generating tradition.

      • Shanreagh 1.2.1

        What I don't like is the implicit view that the other Treaty partner is best left out of this while the big guys, who know all about this, get on with the real oil. Anyone with the most basic understanding of Maori issues knows that water is a taonga not just an extractive resource. We need people with this long term, philosophical political view that neatly falls into a sustainable approach to leaven a wholesale extractive view.

        When you get people of far differing views coming together with a common purpose the result is usually/often better than what an individual or group of same/same individuals can achieve. I liken it to the voice you hear when a choir is working well together. Strong voices making a new voice. This is not meant to be a wishy washy irredeemably liberal concept.

        The point is with Wayne Brump the second group is locked out and we don't get the chance. Remembering if you keep doing the things the way you have always done it you will get the same result. We don't want that with water, it has not worked.

        So locking Maori out and putting the Councils back in control seems very much like the bad old days.

        On the plus side it at least is a different view.
        There may be something in there that could be used. It worries me that he has got together with Chch Mayor. At the risk of annoying some Chch folk there does seem to be a but of anti Maori rhetoric white supremacist thinking there despite the phenomenal success of Ngai Tahu as an Iwi.

        What the heck is going on in Auckland though? I thought it was proud to be the biggest Polynesian city in the world?

        • Corey Humm 1.2.1.1

          Go back to the 1980s with that fiction. I've seen more racism in Auckland, Hamilton, Tauranga than I've ever seen in Christchurch.

          Christchurch is by any international standard a progressive city, more progressive than Auckland in a shit load of ways.

          I tire of the snobbery of the left in this country bashing Dunedin and Christchurch two leftwing strongholds.

          It ain't called the people's socialist republic of Christchurch for no reason, it's a labour strong hold. meanwhile the left in neoliberal/right-wing Auckland which has more skinheads than anywhere else in the country and with 800,000 renters struggles to connect with voters.

          From Sheppard to Kirk to Anderton to Rod Donald, to having the first female mp and first female minister, to being the first city to declare itself nuclear free the legacy of Christchurch on the history of the left in NZ is immense and there wouldn't be a single labour government without it's support and it's Auckland not Christchurch that's frothing at the mouth with crazy nutcase right wing psychos and it's Aucklands notoriously fickle voters who keep giving us national govts.

          Not liking three waters doesn't make people skinheads or racist.

          If the left continue down the road where we refuse to engage and debate ideas then we have become intellectual failures bereft of ideas , demanding censorship of election coverage is bad enough but you know you've lost the debate when you're calling people who disagree with you on policy Nazis and skin heads.

          I've noticed the people who bash Christchurch usually have nothing but contempt for working class people and are elitist af

          • Shanreagh 1.2.1.1.1

            Not liking three waters doesn't make people skinheads or racist.

            I agree with this. I did not say this though. What are the reasons for not liking Three Waters? These are the ones I have heard:

            • Fear of a large body controlling water
            • Fear of co-governance

            Then from a left point of view:

            • concern that this is not the time and could be an election loser.

            Thanks Corey…..I have not said I am against Chch. It has a recent sad past. It also has Ngai Tahu and that organisation is making a good job of working with its Treaty Settlement.

            it's Aucklands notoriously fickle voters who keep giving us national govts.

            I regret that the last local body election brought a right wing Mayor to Chch and that he has 'found' Wayne Brown.

    • Ad 1.3

      Agree with your general point to get the legislation through this year.

      I was in Roxborough on Saturday for the NZBattery project which is going to be an order of magnitude more disruptive to locals for about 100km radius than 3 Waters, and boy you don't want to raise your head on 3 Waters but for Battery Dam you could see their eyes spinning dollar signs.

      All the way down the Clutha there were anti-3 Waters signs.

      • Poission 1.3.1

        Yeah and the market has priced significant risk into the NZ$ shorting it at 30% against the US$.

        With a terminal rate of 5.5% for the ocr,and little sign of reduction in the CA deficit,funding for big projects is vary limited.

        • Nic the NZer 1.3.1.1

          If the market is shorting every major currency against the US$ then is this really related to NZ policy?

          • Poission 1.3.1.1.1

            Its the depth of the short against the NZ$,the worst performer in the G10 currencies,due to the highest current account deficit,high overseas debt liability,and a government deficit.

            There are limited avenues to lower the current account problem,and a future that will see next year an increase in inflation as the fuel subsidies end and the biofuel mandate comes in (adding around 10% to fuel costs)

            On the otherside of the debt problem,banks have increased term rates for term deposits,which removes liquidity from the economy,improves passive incomes,and increases government revenue from withholding tax,this may reduce international fund flows.

            • Nic the NZer 1.3.1.1.1.1

              "Its the depth of the short against the NZ$"

              Isn't that chart cumulative?

              • Poission

                Its expansive with the currency rating shown.the IIF risk model show the NZ $ overvalued by 36%.

                • Nic the NZer

                  I'm going to suggest if their risk model is making estimates IIS don't understand then they should have a thorough look at it. On the other hand we shouldn't adopt it as a guide to NZs public policy.

                  • Poission

                    The problem is that the IIF is the global institute of financial institutions,where the data of global flows show,the misalignment also captures undervalued currencies such as norway with its through the roof current account surplus (underpriced by 45%)

                    NZ public policy should be guided by the ability to fund internally,or by borrowing that will result in improvements that show efficiency.

                    • Nic the NZer

                      Maybe the market agrees with this and realizes NZ is about to embark on a massive (internally funded) investment in energy efficiency? Going to be very confusing for the IIF before they catch up on the news.

                    • Poission

                      have you met the crew from the IIF? at the recent meeting concurrent with the IMF.

                      https://www.iif.com/Events/2022_AMM_DC/meetingid/54717ecf-19b1-ec11-9840-00224826b530

                      The NZ energy strategy is outside of this governments realm of responsibility due to financial constraints as the governments aspirational goals have been sent back to consultation as the reality is greater then the rhetoric.

                  • Poission

                    A good example of FX changes will be on the RBA cash rate review today (bigger spread then the melbourne cup) with the cross rates pairs with the AUS/US and NZ/Aus due to the interest rate differential.

      • Graeme 1.3.2

        Roxburgh and Alexandra both owe their existence to Government hydro schemes, there'd be SFA there if it wasn't for those lumps of concrete in the river. Of course their eyes will be a tad glazed.

        Must have been the first community briefing for a major project you've been to where they are having to hose down expectations rather than pussy foot around objections

    • swordfish 1.4

      .

      Sanctuary

      to dogwhistle a white racist backlash against the concept of co-governance … conservative white voters with an implicit culture war mandate

      I see you're currently in the Critical Race Theory phase of your wild swings back & forth between Woke & anti-Woke commentary.

      • Ad 1.4.1

        Actually you've detected thinking.

        You're the one on the ideological crusade.

        • Anker 1.4.1.1

          What is the ideology that Swordfish is crusading about Ad?

          • Ad 1.4.1.1.1

            You can go directly to any of Swordfishes' extensive verbatim quotes and see for yourself. Don't ask me to make sense of it for you.

            • Anker 1.4.1.1.1.1

              Swordfish makes complete sense to me. He is attacking the ideology that has infiltrated our public service, media, academia and the Labour and Greens Party.

              You are the one who accsued Swordfish on being on an ideological crusade. It lies with you to give a rationale for your statement. I think the only reason you wont (and lets face it, it would only have to be a sentence long) is because what you have said isn't true.

              • Shanreagh

                He is attacking the ideology that has infiltrated our public service, media, academia and the Labour and Greens Party.

                As they say, in this presumption you are 'drawing a long bow.'

                Why don't you make a careful and reasoned response to Sanctuary's post. That is the way this work around here.

                If an ideology (your explanation/Swordfish's) has it filled with 'woke this' and 'woke that' and generally unclear words) has infiltrated all those places and has had has the effect of righting wrongs etc what possible objection can there be to it? Or have you forgotten that looking at the way a country treats its citizens most in need is a reflection of the worth of that country.

          • Incognito 1.4.1.1.2

            Vogon poetry

      • Shanreagh 1.4.2

        Have you anything to add Swordfish other than a grumpy view of

        a) Treaty of Waitangi issues

        b) wider issues involving Maori

        And of course using current terms that are supposed to be gut wrenchingly slaying personally but which no-one knows what they mean as they have been misused for forever and day ie

        woke

        anti-woke

        Today I see you have served these with a side of 'critical race theory'

        I won't say any more as I don't want a repeat of the personal attack you made on me last week.

        As an aside I am not finding that these are the musings of the Swordfish of old. I am hoping that things are Ok with you.

        • Sacha 1.4.2.1

          He does seem different, eh.

          • Anker 1.4.2.1.1

            Swordfish makes complete sense to me. He is attacking the ideology that has infiltrated our public service, media, academia and the Labour and Greens Party.

            You are the one who accsued Swordfish on being on an ideological crusade. It lies with you to give a rationale for your statement. I think the only reason you wont (and lets face it, it would only have to be a sentence long) is because what you have said isn't true.

            • Sacha 1.4.2.1.1.1

              Not complicated. Simple response to: "I am not finding that these are the musings of the Swordfish of old". Sometimes a cigar..

              Crusading is best addressed in your mirror.

            • Shanreagh 1.4.2.1.1.2

              Not me. No mention of ideological crusade. Just a comment about him being grumpy and not the Swordfish of old.

          • Sacha 1.4.2.1.2

            Sorry to hear about the cancer, swordfish. Had missed that.

      • Anker 1.5.1

        Swordfish I think you are bang on. Keep commenting if you are able

        • Shanreagh 1.5.1.1

          Is this a joke? The post 1.5 you were replying to is blank.

          • Anker 1.5.1.1.1

            I was referring to Swordfish's comment at 1.4 and his comments in general.

            I think his blank comment was in response to your asking Swordfish if you have anything to add.

            I hate to talk on Swordfish's behalf, but I think he like me and a small number of commentators on this site, see how ideologically driven Labour have become (think gender ideology and critical race theory). Also the PMC making decisions like not kicking anti social abusive tennants out of State Homes, leaving vulnerable State house tennants (such as Swordfish's elderly parents) to have their lives wrecked by the failure of decency by those who are responsible for managing the tennants in state houses.

            The ideological stance of Labour e.g. setting up a new health authority during a pandemic, while denying there is a health crisis and that we are 3000 plus nurses short, is another good example of Labours failure to act decently and solve the real problems we all face.. Andrew Little dissing the nurses union and having nurses strike and mid wives forced to take legal action. Meanwhile we have a shiny new (extremely costly) NZ Health. I have a contact in NZ Health who tells me it is in a state of chaos and is unlikely in their opinion to achieve health equity) .

            And the statement realeased about racism by NZ Health NZ (Chris Trotter has written about it if you want to read it) is drenched in CRT. Do they not realize what a slap in the face such a statement by NZ Health will be to most health professionals? Said health professionals are far more liketly to experience abuse and even assault just trying to do their job, than be racist. Health professionals go into this work mostly cause they care about people. Not whites only.

            In a past life (so to speak) I was a health professional. We all worked our guts out and we cared deeply about doing a good job for our patients. There was no racism at all in our service. We did of course appreciate and maybe go the extra mile for some patients. These were the people who were pleasant and cooperative and helped make our lives easy in the demanding work we did. They could be any race and any sex. We really didn't care.

            Getting back to Swordfish, I hope he won't mind me reminding people on this site, but he is seriously ill with cancer. He has had to go through chemo. And Swordfish if you are reading this, sending you my best regards. He is facing this while his elderly parents have had years of some bastard who sounds anti social making their lives hell. It is the sort of thing that makes you not give a dam if people find you grumpy or otherwise. I am sure if I was facing what he is facing I would be worse. Aside from all he is going through and how he may come across to some as grumpy, his actual views in my opinion are bang on.

        • swordfish 1.5.1.2

          .

          Cheers, Anker …. genuinely appreciate your support & camaraderie.

          I'll let you into a little secret … I don't always read replies from geezers I suspect are going to overly-irritate me … particularly those saddled with the classic Woke personality-type … narcissistic teens inhabiting adult bodies (quite often decidely middle-aged adult bodies) … all that ostentatious moral posturing & yet possessing zero actual ethics or morality. It's like they've adopted The Young One's Rik as their role model.

          Suits everyone … I get my say … and they get to have the last word … and they do so without agravating the living hell out of me because I never have know what they said … which is fantastic for my health

          Win-Win.

          smileydevilsurprise

          • Anker 1.5.1.2.1

            Excellent strategySwordfish.

            Take care. And please continue to give your take on things on this site, but only if its o.k. for you to do so.

          • RedLogix 1.5.1.2.2

            Please contact Lynn Prentice. I would like to get in contact if that is Ok with you.

            • swordfish 1.5.1.2.2.1

              .
              Cheers, Red … by coincidence I've recently been thinking I'd like to have some on-going discussion with you in a more private setting … particularly as you're moving away from frequent engagement on The Standard.

              Have you considered Twitter ? I know you don't have an account … but it's very easily set up … allows private direct messaging (I've had some great private discussions & kept in touch with a couple of former commenters here) … and you can deactivate your account any time you like.

              Let me know if you're interested in heading in that direction.

              • RedLogix

                OK I will go down that path. Let me know your account name please.

                RedLogix
                @RedLogixTS

              • RedLogix

                Says you cannot be messaged.

                • Muttonbird

                  Your new movement is off to a rocky start.

                  • swordfish

                    Best leave humour to the grown-ups.

                    Crude, dogmatic Cult members … whether they be simple-minded SJWs like yourself, L. Ron Hubbard-worshipping Scientologists or born-again Evangelical Christians should always be strenuously dissuaded from treading the boards.

                    As Noel Coward almost sang: “Don’t put your Wokester on the Stage, Mrs Muttonbird, don’t put your Wokester on the stage … he’s really quite a bore, for the audience he’s a chore, just don’t put your Wokester on the Stage !“.

                    • Muttonbird

                      Well, if you two want to fight woke nonsense and stop the Maoris you'd better learn to how to work social media. Just saying.

                    • RedLogix

                      The reason I wanted to contact Swordfish has nothing to do with your fevered imaginings.

          • Molly 1.5.1.2.3

            A sensible approach (which is probably not mine wink).

            Would like to add that Anker's replies above are a much more articulate relating of my views and perspectives than I would achieve. Add to that a repetition of her wishes for your continued contributions and wellbeing.

          • Shanreagh 1.5.1.2.4

            Ok but how does that explain your personal attack on me then. You not only read something from me, presumably someone you disagreed with, and then instead of whizzing on by, decided to reply in a post that contained a multitude of ad hominem stuff and no substance.

            I have actually been supportive of you in the bad tenants next to your parents.

            But no it is 'woke' this 'woke' that, narcissistic etc. and many other buzz words that don't add much to the argument.

            Sorry but I liked the Swordfish of old not this current 'geezer'. I know the temptation when facing bad health is to let all hell rip. My advice is to resist it.

    • Gabby 1.6

      Why the hell hasn't this been sold as a money saver and a life saver?

  2. Alan 2

    The rift between the proponents of 3 waters/co=governance and the back benchers within Labour who fear for their ongoing political careers after the next election must be reaching boiling point – something will have to give soon.

    • Ad 2.1

      Ardern will pay no mind to the Dead Meat Walking backbenchers coming on the unrepeatable 51% surge of 2020. Ardern can actually count.

      What is remarkable is how well Labour's polls are holding up. Labour have a very good shot at forming a government next year, in no small part because Ardern is clearly a better tv and youtube performer than Luxon.

      • Bearded Git 2.1.1

        Jacinda is a superb communicator….she was so good on RNZ yesterday and she is always eloquent in parliament…..I predict that Luxon will refuse to debate her live at the election.

        • Robert Guyton 2.1.1.1

          Luxon will be sufficiently trained to front-up. He'll Gish-gallop like a pro and surprise with a hot-button up-setter for Ardern. I hope her trainers are smart enough to know it's coming and advise her well. If she's prepared, she'll slay him 🙂

  3. Drowsy M. Kram 3

    Want a “miracle cure“? Try "magic" – provided there's a sound reason to trust the magician.

    Ivermectin for COVID-19: Final Nail in the Coffin [Medscape; 25 Oct 2022]

    OK, are we done with this drug yet? Is this nice US randomized trial enough to convince people that results from a petri dish don't always transfer to humans, regardless of the presence or absence of an evil pharmaceutical cabal?

    No, of course not. At this point, I can predict the responses. The dose wasn't high enough. It wasn't given early enough. The patients weren't sick enough, or they were too sick. This is motivated reasoning, plain and simple. It's not to say that there isn't a chance that this drug has some off-target effects on COVID that we haven't adequately measured, but studies like ACTIV-6 effectively rule out the idea that it's a miracle cure. And you know what? That's OK. Miracle cures are vanishingly rare. Most things that work in medicine work OK; they make us a little better, and we learn why they do that and improve on them, and try again and again. It's not flashy; it doesn't have that allure of secret knowledge. But it's what separates science from magic.

    https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2797483

    • mauī 3.1

      Of course, supposedly smart doctors are prescribing a drug that doesnt work.. because really they're either conspiracy theorists or stupid republicans.

  4. joe90 4

    So far so good.

    Some of Bolsonaro’s closest allies have publicly acknowledged Lula’s victory, including Sao Paulo governor-elect Tarcisio de Freitas and Senator-elect Damares Alves, both of whom served as ministers under Bolsonaro.

    “The will of the majority seen on ballots shall never be contested,” another ally, Lower House Speaker Arthur Lira, told reporters on Sunday. Evangelical pastor Silas Malafaia, who has been a strident Bolsonaro supporter, also called for God to bestow his “blessing” on Lula.

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/10/31/after-lula-victory-brazil-asks-wheres-bolsonaro

  5. Jimmy 5

    The IRD wanting to tax sweets gifted to children on Halloween to teach them about tax. Who the hell came up with this gem?

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/130334088/inland-revenue-deletes-halloweenthemed-tweet-after-it-backfires

  6. SPC 6

    In March 1999 all state houses in Wairarapa were given to a community trust. Trust House – in 2014 it became New Zealand’s first registered social housing provider in the government’s new social housing scheme to make rents even more affordable for people on low incomes.

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2022/11/disabled-woman-and-family-facing-homelessness-after-poor-wheelchair-modifications-see-them-evicted-from-rental-home.html

    MSD, ACC and Enable New New Zealand are left with finding them a home suitable for modification for wheel chair access in the area. Maybe Kainga Ora buy such a home in the area (or starts building some) and takes over the provision of homes for those with disability in this region?

  7. SPC 7

    A concern about the increase in share of tax revenue coming from income tax (48 to 51% because of no indexing of tax thresholds).

    Maybe when we tax annually the increase in wealth (a form of CG tax) on rising property value resulting from "inflation"? (much better than a land tax given we already do this when paying rates)

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/300726868/individuals-tax-bill-up-55-in-five-years

  8. SPC 8

    A landlord survey released in mid-October found that 74% of respondents planned to raise their rents in the next six months.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/prosper/finances/130326242/cheat-sheet-where-to-turn-if-youre-broke-and-struggling

    Apparently most intend a 5% rent increase – c$600 to $630. But some might be facing 10%.

    A rent freeze would lower the inflation rate before the election …

    • bwaghorn 8.1

      No I've been reliable informed that making poor people unemployed Is how you control inflation, lowering profits for grifters large and small just won't do it.

  9. Anne 9

    Oh god, I love this:

    Have I Got News For You

    @haveigotnews

    12h

    Amid claims Liz Truss's phone was hacked, MI5 reassures everyone that absolutely no intelligence will have been found.

    • SPC 9.1

      Those who work in intelligence did not maintain contact as they knew it only have to be repeated later …

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