Open Mike 01/12/2017

76 comments on “Open Mike 01/12/2017 ”

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1. Ed 1

   1 December 2017 at 6:14 am

   Rachel Stewart‏

   ‘This is when you realise that NZ is basically a third world country.’

   http://www.police.govt.nz/news/release/outcome-investigation-collapse-ctv-building
   • Ed 1.1

     1 December 2017 at 6:34 am

     Although I would disagree with her slightly.
     We found this out when no-one got prosecuted for Pike River.

     http://www.nzherald.co.nz/pike-river-mine-blast/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503000&objectid=10899419
   • cleangreen 1.2

     1 December 2017 at 6:37 am

     Honestly this is harming the police here if no-one is found responsible, because any fair minded person wants to see “justice” at work there as in every case because we meak 99% are being row beaten by “beaurocrats and the police” to “comply with the law” so should they enforce the same law there too.

     “one law for all must apply.”

     “Police has determined that there will be no criminal prosecution in relation to the collapse of the CTV building in Christchurch in February 2011.”
   • vto 1.3

     1 December 2017 at 6:40 am

     No, that’s not right. The Police have got this right, despite the fact that the CTV collapsed due to a series of human errors and negligence (not just Reay, but those that fiddled with the building structure some years later).

     Grenfell Tower in London was third world. And that makes the whole world third world.

     To the rest of New Zealand – your towns and cities building owners have been given plenty of time to get their buildings safe/r, yet they are not doing so. Tell the building owners in your towns to sort their buildings out quick-smart…

     You will find most Christchurch people who went through the earthquakes walk around towns in the rest of New Zealand in fear – constantly looking up at the unsupported verandahs and facades. I do. I hate walking near old buildings everywhere except Christchurch now. Invercargill, Dunedin, Ranfurly, Taihape, Taupo, Whangarei, it just goes on and on… Those facades and verandahs in your towns are going to collapse and kill people. Sort it out. Harass the building owners.
     • cleangreen 1.3.1

       1 December 2017 at 6:53 am

       Hey VTO;

       I am from Napier and drive up north of Gisborne a lot.

       We get spooked every time I go through gullies now with tall steep hilllsides, and see the cliffs above fracturing with big cracks going down there, so I become a dangerous driver & find i need to break the law and drive on the other side of the road now, further away from the steep hillside to save ourselves should the hillside slip occur and bury us and kill us now.

       I know we could be fined for this but it is now becomming a threat to our very lives that count more.

       So we asked the the roading engineers of three road companies, who conduct the road repairs and they all are now confirming to us now they suspect the larger, bigger heavier “over-weight” “HPMV” trucks that are causing large, stronger, road vibrations now, that they believe are responsible for the hillside fractures, as they have placed vibration monitoring devices on these hillisides, and are detecting heavier ground shacking vibrations occurring with the bigger, heavier HPMV trucks now.

       So are the heavier truck operators now liable for legal costs if they damage people and/or property?
       • James 1.3.1.1

         1 December 2017 at 8:39 am

         “so I become a dangerous driver & find i need to break the law and drive on the other side of the road now, further away from the steep hillside to save ourselves should the hillside slip occur and bury us and kill us now.”

         Of course you are now more at risk of having a head on accident and killing yourselves and the poor sap who was innocently coming the other way.

         Putting others lives at risk because you perceive it to be better for you.

         I’ve lost friends on motorbikes because of people doing what you are doing. It’s a disgusting and selfish act.

         If you end up having an accident I hope you don’t kill an innocent person.
       • Adrian 1.3.1.2

         1 December 2017 at 8:58 am

         Oh for fucksake! Somethings eventually going to get you, your only choice is to stay in bed and not do anything at all all the while remembering that the vast majority of people die in bed, but in your stupid case it’s most likely to be a truck coming the other way.
         • james 1.3.1.2.1

           1 December 2017 at 12:31 pm

           assuming they dont kill somebody else first
       • Draco T Bastard 1.3.1.3

         1 December 2017 at 12:05 pm

         So are the heavier truck operators now liable for legal costs if they damage people and/or property?

         Actually, I say that the ministers of the government that passed the legislation allowing the bigger trucks should held personally liable. This is an obvious consequence of doing so and they should have at lest asked the engineers about it.
       • Andre 1.3.1.4

         1 December 2017 at 1:32 pm

         cleangreen, your risk assessment seems a bit out of kilter so I’ll try to help you.

         Failure to keep left is the fourth most common contributing cause to a fatal accident in the 2011 – 2016 period, cited as a factor in 191 fatal crashes, according to this government analysis.

         http://www.transport.govt.nz/assets/Uploads/Research/Documents/Overseas-drivers2016.pdf

         The only road fatality attributable to landslide I can find any reference to is the 2014 double fatality in Westland where a tourist couple were apparently swept off the road into a river during an extreme weather event. Interestingly, landslides have caused a number of train accidents with numerous fatalities, but appear to be a negligible risk to road users.

         https://teara.govt.nz/files/d-8801-enz.pdf

         So by crossing the centreline to keep away from cliffs, it certainly appears that you are choosing to create a very real hazard to yourself and other road users, in response to an imaginary threat.
       • McFlock 1.3.1.5

         1 December 2017 at 1:52 pm

         not only what the others said, but the extra few metres will not give you time to dodge a darn thing. And where will you dodge to? Over the bank? Roads are often nowhere near the bottom of steep gullies, usually halfway up the darn hillside.
     • Ed 1.3.2

       1 December 2017 at 7:25 am

       Sad to say that the police have been politicised.
       Look at the Hager raids as one example of this.
       And the Barclay shambles as a second exemplar of police conduct.
       • tc 1.3.2.1

         1 December 2017 at 7:46 am

         Roast Busters, TeaPot tapes etc we sort of only hear about the prominent ones.

         Hagers book indicated the potential for alot more in exposing the behaviour of Collins which IMO should’ve triggered an inquiry into her activity across many portfolios.
       • James 1.3.2.2

         1 December 2017 at 8:42 am

         Don’t forget Darren Hughes – or does that not count as he was labour.
         • Jeremy 1.3.2.2.1

           1 December 2017 at 1:15 pm

           That does not count as his case was reviewed by the Crown Solicitors’ Office
           http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/5116263/No-charges-against-former-Labour-MP-Darren-Hughes

           Perhaps you mean Dr. Richard Worth?
           • adam 1.3.2.2.1.1

             1 December 2017 at 1:56 pm

             Well spotted Jeremy. But no doubt james will come back with some lie or half truth.

             He can’t stand being proven the lying, spinner, gutter sycophant he so often is.
   • Johan 1.4

     1 December 2017 at 8:15 am

     This shows that under certain circumstances there is no backbone by the police to bring certain corporates to justice. It seems it is much easier to accuse and charge an ordinary person with average means than people who are well connected.
     Remember the extraordinary involvement of police and management in TV presentation to the media, it was similar to a tag team, when the viewer is uncertain what the job of the police should be. Corruption in places is rife, always attempting to protect the corporation instead of siding with the innocent. Remember the planted cartridge, the disgraceful blame game in the Erebus disaster, or the very poor investigation in the Bain murders.
   • Sanctuary 1.5

     1 December 2017 at 8:23 am

     Anyone who thought anything as terrible as being held to account, being tried and going to jail might occur to professionals who are men of reputation and pillars of the establishment needed only look at at Pike River to know nothing was going to happen here.

     If you want concerted outrage against a great injustice, you won’t find it in thundering newspaper editorials or middle aged white male shick jocks quaking in anger demanding justice for the 144 dead of the CTV building and Pike River.

     However, true outrage still exists if you can can spitefully twist the truth and the target is a smart 32 year female lawyer from a refugee family.
     • halfcrown 1.5.1

       1 December 2017 at 8:41 am

       +1000% How fucking true Sanctuary.
2. Ed 2

   1 December 2017 at 6:37 am

   Some people are above the law.

   http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11870607
   • cleangreen 2.1

     1 December 2017 at 6:43 am

     Yes Ed,
     Money talks = truth walks.
     • John up North 2.1.1

       1 December 2017 at 9:13 am

       And we have another classic example right here, fresh as……… Nigel Murray.

       Seems the true extent of his theft may never be known and his enabler Bob Simcock finally fell on his sword when the SFO put their beak in.

       Both these middle aged, privileged males should be in the dock facing charges of fraud/theft and being the accomplice of same.

       Link is to a RNZ article of the latest as of 30/11/17 in this sorry saga

       http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/345079/murray-may-have-spent-more-than-officially-recorded-audit-nz
   • Ed 2.2

     1 December 2017 at 7:17 am

     Big corporations pass on the cost of externalities.
     Socialism for the rich.

     https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aCGTD5Bn1m0
   • tc 2.3

     1 December 2017 at 7:48 am

     Don’t forget National ‘realigned’ the SFO in a similar manner to the way it sorted out the commerce commission and anybody getting in the way of corporate cowboy antics.

     She’s just giving the accepted spin to the reality that they neither have the resources or will to form a posse and chase the cowboys down as the evidence is available without a whistle blower.
   • Draco T Bastard 2.4

     1 December 2017 at 12:17 pm

     Cashless

     Make it so that most financial crime will be detected automatically by computer.
3. Ad 3

   1 December 2017 at 7:43 am

   I don’t agree with this decision by the NZPolice not to prosecute the designers of the CTV Building.

   I perfectly understand why they went for internal legal and then Crown Law advice.

   But they should publish all the advice.

   If the Police had had an urge for justice, and Crown Law’s Deputy Solicitor was being more cautious, then Police should have insisted that the advice be escalated to the Solicitor General.

   With a new government and Minister, I think the Solicitor General should also have had a chat with the Attourney General as Minister.

   It should have gone to trial, at which Defence would put up a line that “It wasn’t just us, it was a systemic failure.”

   At that point the judge could make a judgement on both the people, and the whole system.

   This is not right, not just.
   • Andre 3.1

     1 December 2017 at 8:07 am

     A key point that mostly gets lost but would probably form a large part of the defence: the CTV building had already experienced its design event in the 2010 earthquake, and despite its serious design flaws it met its performance requirement that any occupants would have been able to safely leave.

     http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/christchurch-earthquake/7332804/CTV-building-damaged-by-earlier-quakes

     It’s beyond me how to fairly apportion culpability between those who produced a seriously flawed design, those who approved the seriously flawed design, and those who allowed the re-occupation of a seriously flawed building after an extreme event that would be expected to produce serious structural damage.
     • Johan 3.1.1

       1 December 2017 at 8:31 am

       Approval of a flawed building: Why hasn’t Alan Reay been taken to court for his part in the poor design and construction of the CTV building? He failed to do his job properly and unlawfully threatened the local council in order to have the building signed off as fit and proper.
       https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CTV_Building
       • Andre 3.1.1.1

         1 December 2017 at 10:46 am

         I agree Reay was seriously deficient in his lax oversight and rubberstamp approval of the work done by his firm. But he still has a pretty good defense that the building met the performance standard required of it in the 2010 quake.

         And there are many other culpable parties. Yes, Reay appears to have applied inappropriate pressure to get approval of that building. But council officials are expected to wear big-boy pants – they also behaved inappropriately in caving to the pressure.

         The approval process for re-occupation also appears to have been culpably flawed. ISTR reports that building occupants were uncomfortable with how much more building movement there seemed to be post-2010-quake than pre-quake.

         Given how much other culpability seems to floating around this disaster, and how any of the many parties involved could plausibly have prevented the disaster by doing their jobs properly, the near exclusive focus on Reay really bothers me. Because if Reay is the sole scapegoat, then all those other failings won’t get addressed.
     • Ad 3.1.2

       1 December 2017 at 8:51 am

       I agree it’s beyond me as well.

       What gets me is that it should also be “beyond” the Deputy Solicitor General.

       The best person in the country to make that call, including those calls about the layers of accountability , is a High Court Judge.

       The families deserve their day in court to hold the system accountable.

       Granted the designers aren’t like Whittle.

       But those families deserve their day.
   • alwyn 3.2

     1 December 2017 at 9:59 am

     “I think the Solicitor General should also have had a chat with the Attourney General as Minister.”
     Are you seriously suggesting that an MP, acting with the title of Attorney General but still just an MP, should have any say at all in deciding who should, or should not, face trial?
     We have enough such countries in the world already. I don’t want NZ to become another one.
     You want us to become like Turkey? Like Venezuela? Like The Philippines? Like Syria? No thanks.
   • Patricia 3.3

     2 December 2017 at 5:23 am

     Has anyone checked other buildings designed by those responsible for the CTV building ? I’ve heard rumours of a former commercial building in Auckland alledgedly designed by the CTV designers. This commercial building has recently been converted into very expensive apartments – most sold and waiting for sign off.
4. Sanctuary 4

   1 December 2017 at 7:45 am

   Geez Louise, I see Steve Bannon minime David Farrar is STILL banging on about Golriz.

   The right have turned that non-story into their own little Benghazi.

   Oh well, they can wallow about in irrelevance I suppose.
   • Ad 4.1

     1 December 2017 at 9:15 am

     Looks like Shaw’s apology yesterday has lanced it.

     The Greens are, again, fucking lucky to have him.
     • Marcus Morris 4.1.1

       1 December 2017 at 10:01 am

       The experts – the people who really know, are saying quite clearly that Golriz has done absolutely nothing wrong. What are your credentials.
     • alwyn 4.1.2

       1 December 2017 at 10:05 am

       H2 has clearly been brought in.
       She is trying the lines of the last Labour Government.
       “Nothing to see here”. “Time to move on”.
       • Robert Guyton 4.1.2.1

         1 December 2017 at 10:17 am

         “Nothing to see here”. “Time to move on”.
         You didn’t hear those lines used repeatedly and regularly during Key’s time as PM, Alwyn?
         You must be as deaf as a post and unable to lip-read to boot!
     • weka 4.1.3

       1 December 2017 at 2:15 pm

       What apology? The bit I saw has Shaw saying he made a mistake in his speech. That was only one of the many things thrown at Golriz and the Greens this week on the issue.
   • Bearded Git 4.2

     1 December 2017 at 10:34 am

     @Sanctuary

     I have a theory about this issue-I think the Nats are really pissed off they didn’t carry out this nasty vicious hatchet job on Golriz before the election and so are sounding more bitter and twisted than ever.

     They realise that this could have (unfairly) cost the Greens a percentage point or more and changed the election result…..epic fail Mr. Farrar.
5. Marcus Morris 5

   1 December 2017 at 8:17 am

   Let’s open a discussion on the appalling behavior of Dr Nigel Murray and the path that led to his appointment.

   He was appointed by Bob Murray who was, in turn, appointed by that smarmiest of National Cabinet Ministers’ one Tony Ryall, who on his retirement from his portfolio as Minister of Health, claimed to have left the department in wonderful shape and with morale on a high. I wonder how the good folk of Dunedin felt about that claim.

   Murray was granted the post at the Waikato DHB in spite of grave concerns expressed by both Labour’s Shadow Minister of Health at the time, the wonderful Annette King who herself had been a superb Minister of Health, and the local MP Sue Maroney.
   Below is a quote from the NZ Herald of 15th July 2014.

   “Labour urged the DHB to hold off confirming Dr Murray’s Waikato appointment until this latest report had been released. It declined,” she said.
   “I also sought information from the Ministry of Health and from Health Minister Tony Ryall as to the process around the appointment, but was given the brush-off.”

   The “latest report” referred to the damming assessment of the performance of a Canadian Health Authority which had been in the charge of Murray.

   This whole rotten episodes reeks of political cronyism. Sue Maroney has instigated the process for an official inquiry into the whole sordid affair.

   This should be yet one more incident to expose the tawdriness of nine years of National misgovernment.
   • dv 5.1

     1 December 2017 at 12:30 pm

     http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11951081
     The interim chief executive at Waikato District Health Board has welcomed a formal complaint to the Serious Fraud

     Derek Wright told Newstalk ZB host Mike Hosking this morning he was not concerned about the complaint
     He said there were no red flags over Murray, who resigned in October amid an expenses scandal and after spending $218,000 of taxpayers money in his three years in the job.

     HUH
     No red flags
     Wot about the Canadian report then?

     The “latest report” referred to the damming assessment of the performance of a Canadian Health Authority which had been in the charge of Murray.
     
     • greywarshark 5.1.1

       1 December 2017 at 2:43 pm

       The problems we are getting because of the government’s welcome to private enterprise to come in and buy up the provision of services at a profit is going to compound.
       I was thinking about the latest revelations around Waikato DHB.

       Just having a new government which has some clues and wishes to be a government for the people, not business and not redcarpeting foreign business, is not enough to stop an insidious bleeding of NZ opportunities and provision of acceptable self-sufficiency and standards for us all.

       1 Dec 2017
       Purchase of HealthTap criticised, no value for money – Audit NZ
       by Natalie Akoorie
       http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11951201
       State Services Commissioner Peter Hughes announced today he has formally requested the Auditor-General conduct an inquiry into the Waikato District Health Board’s SmartHealth product and the procurement process from HealthTap…..

       The news comes as the two-year contract with HealthTap, the American company that powers the DHB’s controversial SmartHealth app, has been revealed to have cost taxpayers almost $15 million….

       Waikato DHB has kept the cost of HealthTap, which together with the cost to launch SmartHealth totals $18.8m, a closely guarded secret, citing commercial sensitivity and contract negotiations as reasons….

       Auditors said the procurement raised a number of concerns including that:
       • It should have been conducted through an open tendering process and that the US$10m trial was an amount well over any threshold for open tendering;…

       Murray went on to champion the product, spending more than $45,000 flying internationally and domestically to learn about and promote SmartHealth, an app that uses smartphones and iPads to conduct online appointments between doctors and patients.
       The app has flopped, not attracting the targeted number of users despite targets being lowered, and is now being independently reviewed ahead of the end of the trial.

       health crime
       30 Nov 2017
       Neither Audit NZ or Waikato DHB have spoken to Nigel Murray
       From Checkpoint, 5:25 pm on 30 November 2017
       Listen duration 3′ :35″
       http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/checkpoint/audio/2018623712/neither-audit-nz-or-waikato-dhb-have-spoken-to-nigel-murray

       Audit NZ says it’s been unable to establish the true extent of former Waikato DHB boss Nigel Murray’s excessive travel costs because of holes in the paper trail.

       (I thought that holey punchcard technology had been replaced with better technology? Hanging chads anyone?)
       I think there is an in-group with a secret handshake called the PPPP (Past Peter Principle Phoenixes.)

       money health
       29 Nov 2017
       Senior doctors welcome DHB chair’s resignation
       From Morning Report, 8:11 am on 29 November 2017
       Listen duration 3′ :41″
       http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018623443/senior-doctors-welcome-dhb-chair-s-resignation

       The executive director of the Association of Salaried Medical Specialists, Ian Powell, says the resignation of the Waikato DHB Chairman Bob Simcock follows a period of destabilisation at the DHB. He tells us there’s been a “complete denial of responsibility all the way through the process” and there are still “some urchins that need to move on”.

       And the neolibs still in the Departments will probably go on running down our national health while putting little injections of cash into new smart methods of delivering health better and cheaper. They will try and save money by running things down so that we are reliant on these new ideas. to fill the gaps that occur. (Think Pharmac swopping over contraceptive pills and running out – just what people don’t need. )

       It seems that it it is cowboy territory out there, and good systems might be dirtied by those which don’t stand up to clear-eyed scrutiny for service to the people who need it most.

       Here is a story about clever new tech.
       Navilluso Medical is led by 2014 New Zealander of the year Lance O’Sullivan who also developed iMoko, a virtual medical service to help vulnerable children.
       Dr O’Sullivan said he constantly heard about patients not having access to doctors in isolated locations.
       “These people aren’t coming in with trivial problems, it just goes to show we need to redesign how we allow people to get access to health.”

       http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/te-manu-korihi/345034/virtual-medical-clinic-gets-funding-boost

       I like Lance O’Sullivan but we shouldn’t be dependent on him and others like the Canterbury Charity Hospital Trust, POBox 20409, Bishopdale, Christchurch 8543 – (donations will be welcome). There is a desperate need for good basic health care, which surely can be identified easily as it has been talked about for ages. Let’s do this and the new systems can fine-tune the effects.

       Also http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/335802/virtual-medical-centre-seen-as-model-for-the-future
6. Ad 6

   1 December 2017 at 9:21 am

   Grant Robertson is saying we will be waiting another 2 weeks for the half year fiscal update, which includes the latest Treasury forecasts.

   http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1712/S00001/robertson-achieving-shared-prosperity.htm

   Excuse me if I was underwhelmed by this first major statement by our Minister of Finance.

   This guy is supposed to be at the ideological core of gaining and redistributing wealth for this country. Not a note of anything connected like that.

   Could someone please tell me what this guy’s plan is, beyond anodyne abstract nouns about”fairness”?
   • Marcus Morris 6.1

     1 December 2017 at 9:40 am

     Goodness, such impatience.
   • Enough is Enough 6.2

     1 December 2017 at 9:52 am

     I really wish that the David Parker has been given the Finance port folio. Grant is a superb MP and has the capability to be a fantastic Minister. I just don’t think that should be in Finance.

     I am far from convinced that he has the knowledge or skills to be able to effect real change in the economy.
     • Chris 6.2.1

       1 December 2017 at 11:47 am

       “I really wish that the David Parker has been given the Finance port folio. Grant is a superb MP and has the capability to be a fantastic Minister. I just don’t think that should be in Finance.

       I am far from convinced that he has the knowledge or skills to be able to effect real change in the economy.”

       Tend to agree with this
   • indiana 6.3

     1 December 2017 at 9:52 am

     If he told you, then people would just attack him for everything he plans to back track on.
   • SpaceMonkey 6.4

     1 December 2017 at 10:23 am

     He’s gonna run surpluses!!

     http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/345153/robertson-unveils-govt-s-plan-for-the-economy

     This highlights to me that Grant Robertson is little more than a Mandarin following the prescribed way of economic thinking of the day, while underscoring why nothing fundamental is going to change with this Government. Running surpluses is not going to fix this country. However, it will ingratiate him with the economic apparatchiks in Treasury and high-finance.
     • Bill 6.4.1

       1 December 2017 at 10:41 am

       Oh, it’s far better (worse!) than just running a surplus (which might be okay if the economy was humming and needed ‘cooling’).

       He’s saying (in the links you provided) that the economy will likely dip, meaning less government revenue coming in while trying to produce a surplus. And that’s austerity.
       • SpaceMonkey 6.4.1.1

         1 December 2017 at 11:04 am

         Indeed. Announcing the running of surpluses while also forecasting an economic dip is just… dumb. It’s like no thinking has been applied and he’s just reading a script that someone has prepared for him. Robertson should NOT be Minister of Finance.
         • UncookedSelachimorpha 6.4.1.1.1

           1 December 2017 at 1:06 pm

           The only loop hole could be if they expanded the tax take from the rich to compensate, but that seems unlikely.
         • Draco T Bastard 6.4.1.1.2

           1 December 2017 at 1:15 pm

           Over the last few decades we’ve been trained to believe that a government runs like a business and that it should have ‘profits’ which it can then divvy out like dividends as tax cuts.

           This is, of course, a load of bollocks but it helps to maintain the status quo of the rich getting richer at everyone else’s expense.
       • UncookedSelachimorpha 6.4.1.2

         1 December 2017 at 1:05 pm

         Straight from Theresa May’s copy book, unfortunately.
       • greywarshark 6.4.1.3

         1 December 2017 at 1:48 pm

         Yes Bill I couldn’t help noticing that – it’s the cliche background for austerity measures. Hasn’t anyone noticed this or are we all bums in the air in NZ, with our heads in the sand?
     • greywarshark 6.4.2

       1 December 2017 at 1:51 pm

       I wonder what comfy chair Robertson has got his eye on after Labour loses in an election or two. He’s got that fatcat look of complacency and certainty.
       • rhinocrates 6.4.2.1

         1 December 2017 at 9:43 pm

         Whatever chair someone else is sitting in. That’s his nature.
   • mauī 6.5

     1 December 2017 at 10:27 am

     We’re also being drip fed details of the tax working group which is slightly annoying. I would rather they make one big announcement on that.
   • Bearded Git 6.6

     1 December 2017 at 10:38 am

     @Ad give the man a chance….let’s see what he comes up with and judge it in 2020 not a month out from being elected.

     For instance, Labour are still coming to terms with Joyce’s $32 billion health/defence spending hole.
     • Ad 6.6.1

       1 December 2017 at 1:27 pm

       9 fucking years to prepare.

       No excuses.
   • Bill 6.7

     1 December 2017 at 11:02 am

     Well, I’ll punt the “guys plan” is basically to mollify some abstract sense of “middle class” by introducing kiwi-build for middle class first time house buyers.

     And that’s it.

     Oh. And some ‘nice to have stuff’ around parental leave etc.

     A fair shot at the kiwi dream then – at least for those occupying some position in society that’s deemed as “deserving”.

     He claims he’s not pursuing “business as usual” which is a bit like the guy throwing punches making claims to pacifism. When this austerity ends badly (and austerity is the only name for an economic policy that seeks surpluses during times of economic slow-down), the National Party will sway back in as the “natural” government of capitalism.

     I wouldn’t put money on NZ Labour achieving a second term.
7. Morrissey 7

   1 December 2017 at 9:23 am

   GROPERS
   No. 14: Judge Roy Moore

   Some republicans have been leaping through incredibly convoluted hoops in their attempts to justify supporting Judge Roy Moore in the special Senate election in Alabama, in light of the revelations from at least five women claiming that Moore groped or sexually assaulted them when they were teenagers and he was in his thirties.
   https://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/rock/8053790/roy-moore-twitter-breitbart-editor-defends-ringo-starr-youre-sixteen

   “….the idea that Roy Moore, someone who is so clearly a repeated child molester and pedophile, could be endorsed meaningfully by the White House—it makes your skin crawl. And I think the Republican Party has a reckoning that they have to do about their morality as they take away children’s healthcare, as they bankrupt our future and endorse a pedophile.”—HEATHER McGHEE, head of Demos.
   https://www.democracynow.org/2017/11/29/abuses_of_power_heather_mcghee_on

   What are you doing Alabama?
   You got the rest of the Union
   To help you along
   What’s going wrong?

   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uD3bGEFxGC0

   “GROPERS” is presented by GroperWatch, a division of Daisycutter Sports Inc.
   No.1 George Herbert Walker Bush; No. 2 Bill O’Reilly; No. 3 Al Franken; No. 4 Robin Brooke; No. 5 Lester Beck; No. 6 Arnold Schwarzenegger; No. 7 Joe Biden; No. 8 Rolf Harris; No. 9 Harold Bloom; No. 10 Sir Jimmy Savile; No. 11 Dr Morgan Fahey; No.12 Prince Harry; No. 13 Bill (“I feel your pain”) Clinton
   • alwyn 7.1

     1 December 2017 at 10:03 am

     Why don’t you go back into history and bring in John Kennedy.
     Then we could be told about his little pals “Fiddle” and “Faddle”
     • Morrissey 7.1.1

       1 December 2017 at 11:32 am

       Be assured, alwyn, the Kennedy clan is on the roster. In fact, No. 6 in the series, Arnold Schwarzenegger, was married to JFK’s niece—before she discovered he’d been JFKing around on her.
8. logie97 8

   1 December 2017 at 11:21 am

   So farmers are into land speculation and making money that way and not productive agriculture as we might have been believing all this time. That would appear to be the National Party view through spokesperson on all things, Steven Joyce.
   Opposition finance spokesperson Steven Joyce told Morning Report that farm buyers will be in favour of the change, but sellers may not be.”The changes could soften the farm sales market which is not necessarily a good thing,” Mr Joyce said.
   • Macro 8.1

     1 December 2017 at 6:59 pm

     Yep! National stands for looking after those who have – but those who have not; see things differently – Young farmers for instance welcomed the move saying stable farm prices would help to enable those seeking to buy their first farm.
     I’m a bit sceptical about David Parker’s analysis though. He was of the opinion that overseas buyers only effected a small increase on the market. Having sold some rural land in the past 7 years, in my experience the price offered from overseas purchasers was always a significant margin over and above what NZ buyers could offer. Furthermore they were invariably “clean” offers – ie cash and not subject to finance, or the sale of another property.
9. Morrissey 9

   1 December 2017 at 11:31 am

   Malcolm Turnbull and his gang could intimidate the previous N.Z. government, but Jimmy Barnes is having none of their nonsense….

   Rock legend Jimmy Barnes has again taken aim at the Liberal government, demanding they stop using his name and songs to spruik their “shitty policies”.

   Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull and energy minister Josh Frydenberg went to the Bluescope steelworks in Port Kembla, south of Wollongong, on Monday to talk about energy policy, industry and jobs.

   “More than 30 years ago Jimmy Barnes came to Port Kembla to make the film clip for Working Class Man. Today the Prime Minister has come to Port Kembla to create jobs for Australia’s working class men and women,” Frydenberg said proudly.

   He was referencing Barnes’ famous hit and iconic video clip, which was filmed at the NSW steelmaking facility.

   Early on Tuesday morning, Barnes fired back on Twitter.

   Barnes is outspoken and unabashedly political on Twitter, sharing lots of support for progressive causes. He was a loud supporter of marriage equality during the recent postal survey, as well as criticising Australia’s current asylum seeker policy as it relates to offshore detention.

   Read more…

   http://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/2017/11/27/jimmy-barnes-tells-shitty-liberals-not-to-use-his-music_a_23289666/
10. Anne 10

    1 December 2017 at 11:52 am

    So here you have it:

    They [Greenwald and Snowden] challenged Key over his promise to resign if mass surveillance was taking place and disclosed details about Speargun’s ability to suck data out of our only internet connection to the world. But Key said they were wrong and that Speargun had been cancelled in March 2013 because he believed it was “too intrusive”. [my bold]

    The Herald investigation found Key approved the use of a Speargun test probe by signing a warrant which would have allowed the GCSB to spike it into the Southern Cross Cable and access New Zealanders’ data. Rather than stopping the project in March 2013, work continued on Speargun for months, then Key was briefed in June 2013 that Snowden could have stolen details about it and funding was eventually pulled by Cabinet in September 2013.

    So much for Key’s claim he acted on the principle of being “too intrusive”. The programme was cancelled because they suspected Snowden had the details.

    What we can deduce is: had Snowden not done what he did… the GCSB and it’s off-shore mates would be conducting mass surveillance of NZ citizens and we would not know it.

    GCSB minister Andrew Little on mass surveillance and our spies obeying the law.
    • Morrissey 10.1

      1 December 2017 at 12:27 pm

      Anne, I hope you don’t mind, but I’ve just reposted your excellent contribution over on David Farrar’s blog….

      https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2017/12/general_debate_1_december_2017.html/comment-page-1#comment-2089816
      • Anne 10.1.1

        1 December 2017 at 4:19 pm

        Hilarious Morrissey. That should stir a few Righties. 😀
        • Morrissey 10.1.1.1

          1 December 2017 at 9:27 pm

          It certainly did, Anne! I recommend you click on the links below, especially the second one, and follow the angry snarling, the aneurisms and the gnashings of teeth. They’re hurt, and VERY angry….

          https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2017/12/general_debate_1_december_2017.html/comment-page-1#comment-2089816

          https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2017/12/the_speargun_beatup.html/comment-page-1#comment-2090312
    • mikes 10.2

      1 December 2017 at 4:40 pm

      “the GCSB and it’s off-shore mates would be conducting mass surveillance of NZ citizens and we would not know it.”

      swap out “would be” and “would not” for “probably are” (or just “are”) and “don’t”.

      (And I’m more than happy to wear a tin foil hat, it seems to keep me awake)
      • Anne 10.2.1

        1 December 2017 at 6:38 pm

        No mikes, I don’t believe they are. Certainly Andrew Little is quite sure they are not conducting mass surveillance and he is an astute and highly intelligent politician. Add to that his sharp, experienced lawyer mind, I doubt anyone would try to pull the wool over his eyes.
11. Ad 11

    1 December 2017 at 1:25 pm

    Parker and Jones should induce Xero to syay NZX listed.

    Worth it.
12. eco maori 12

    1 December 2017 at 2:41 pm

    I see they have breach my privacy rights here in Auckland many thanks for more Mana boys I see even the boys in Auckland like there fireworks to and all there idiot lying contracted liars they tried a move with a old work m8 but no my sense of smell is to good for those idiots. Got the bot hopefully it will be over by Monday Kia Kaha
13. adam 13

    1 December 2017 at 2:57 pm

    !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!FRAUD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    This is what it looks like when the right wing lose, they cheat.
14. eco Maori 14

    1 December 2017 at 5:15 pm

    Many thanks to OUR new coalition Government for increasing our spending on research and development and having a 10 year plan to target 2% of GDP spent on research and development . Also increasing OUR border security to keep out invasive species which would wreck our primary sector of $38 billion ka pai.
    I think that we should investigate the feasibility into industrial scale worm farming so instead of pouring nitrogen on our farm which degrades our topsoil we could pour worm casting on our farms this will reduce waste to the landfill and increase our topsoil this will reduce OUR imports cost ECT subsidizing second hand electric cars will reduce our export spend immensely .kIa kaha

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