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Open mike 02/04/2022

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, April 2nd, 2022 - 131 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:


Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

131 comments on “Open mike 02/04/2022 ”

  1. aom 1

    "Come along for a 'Picnic' at the Pukeahu National War Memorial Park, a place that symbolises our ancestors that fought for our freedom," a statement on Unite's website read.

    What a gang of deluded fuckwits! Do they not realise that every service person since way back when has been vaccinated without choice or rights of refusal. To compound this lack of awareness, the most vulnerable to death with/by Covid overwhelmingly are of the age group that most closely represent those they purport to extol.

    After WW2, thousands of young men were forced to do Compulsory Military Training. The 'youngsters' of this cohort are now in their 70's – and were all COMPULSORILY vaccinated, in case they were required as war fodder. Guess what they might think of these self-entitled pricks who want to wrap themselves in sham patriotism, while happily handing out premature death sentences to these people- all in the name of their 'freedumbs".

    One might suggest that Unite should watching their backs. It is not only the old buggers that will be offended, there are thousands of younger active and former service men and women who may decide that the fuckwit brigade should be physically dealt too for their blatant disrespect.

  2. tsmithfield 2

    I see the villagers around Belgarod in Russia have been getting lots of "entertainment" over the last few nights:

    First, a Russian ammunition dump explodes allegedly due to Ukranian shelling, or perhaps a missile attack:

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/huge-explosions-major-russian-ammo-26587639

    And now a huge fire at a fuel storage depot caused by two attack helicopters:

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60952125

    The Ukranians are neither confirming or denying the attack on the fuel depot, so there has been some speculation that it was a false flag attack by the Russians.

    However, I don't see the point of the Russians staging a false flag attack on this asset. It is strategic infrastructure the Russians need to support their heavily armour dependent effort in the region they have just signalled they want to focus on. It would make an ideal opportunistic target for the Ukranians and would fit with their MO of targeting Russian logistics.

    I would suspect a false flag attack if an empty school had been hit, or there had been some sort of chemical incident in Russia.

    • Francesca 2.1

      What would be the point of a false flag?

      • tsmithfield 2.1.1

        Exactly. No point to attack this sort of infrastructure as a false flag.

        A false flag would be much more effective if it was attacking some sort of soft target.

        • Francesca 2.1.1.1

          itHow would the Russians benefit from any false flag on Russian territory?

          • tsmithfield 2.1.1.1.1

            I agree. I don’t think there really is much point. Unless they wanted to do something like staging a chemical attack against Russian civilians to justify using chemical weapons themselves.

    • aom 2.2

      Since Ukraine denies all knowledge, there is another highly disturbing implication and it ain't got anything to do with false flags.

      Care to join the dots Tsmithfield?

    • locus 2.3

      Or possibly some locals who decided to get involved as they have Ukrainian friends or relatives just across the border?

  3. Ad 3

    Mayor Hawkins of Dunedin goes against joining with other Councils who oppose the 3 Waters programme. Maori relationship healed, Council rift deepens.

    Council schism over Three Waters broad | Otago Daily Times Online News (odt.co.nz)

    Great to see a good Major making a principled stand and also paying a political cost for it. Proper politics.

    • Gypsy 3.1

      How is he a 'good mayor'? He's gone against 72% of his own constituents, and appears to have actively shut down debate on the issue. He's also thrown away the opportunity to work with a powerful block of councils to effect change to what is a deeply flawed plan, which is foolish, considering his own Deputy said that "councillors were generally in agreement about having strong misgivings about aspects of the Government’s reform agenda."

      • Incognito 3.1.1

        He's gone against 72% of his own constituents, and appears to have actively shut down debate on the issue.

        What article have you been reading? It sounds like you’re making up things. As you know, I get tetchy when I get the distinct feeling that commenters make up stuff to suit their biased narrative, especially when they make rather bold allegations.

        • Gypsy 3.1.1.1

          From the article referenced by Ad

          'He's gone against 72% of his own constituents…'

          "An unscientific poll of Otago Daily Times readers found 71.74% of respondents thought the council was wrong to pull out of Communities 4 Local Democracy, while 28.26% thought it had done the right thing. There were a total of 2265 voters in the poll."

          '…and appears to have actively shut down debate on the issue.'

          "While Aaron Hawkins remained mayor, no serious opposition would be mounted to the city council losing control of assets as part of the Government’s Three Waters reforms, Cr Jim O’Malley said. "He has actively blocked that in the past 12 months," Cr O’Malley said."

          • Incognito 3.1.1.1.1

            Fascinating, how your biased mind seems to work, truly fascinating.

            You seem to think that the results of “[a]n unscientific poll” of “2265 voters in the poll” is representative of Dunedin’s constituents.

            You also seem to think that reckons of one disgruntled councillor mean that debate was shut down. First, that’s not what the councillor said, but simply your incorrect interpretation. There’s nothing in the linked article suggesting that Hawkins has or did shut down debate as you allege. In addition, there’s mention of at least 2 pivotal votes and “numerous opportunities for the council to express concern”. Looks to me there’s been plenty of lively debate.

            So, again, what article have you been reading?

            • Gypsy 3.1.1.1.1.1

              "You seem to think that the results of “[a]n unscientific poll” of “2265 voters in the poll” is representative of Dunedin’s constituents."

              Do you have any other polls that say differently?

              "First, that’s not what the councillor said, but simply your incorrect interpretation. "

              How do you interpret the suggestion that the mayor blocked opposition?

              "“numerous opportunities for the council to express concern”"

              Yes that would be a claim made by the mayor who has been the one accused of shutting down debate.

              "there’s mention of at least 2 pivotal votes"

              And there's mention by the Deputy mayor Christine Garey of councillors being "generally in agreement about having strong misgivings about aspects of the Government’s reform agenda."

              It’s all in there.

              • Incognito

                You made up these allegations, you find the evidence, which is not in the article I read. I read the facts, not your interpretations or allegations. Explain how there have been at least 2 pivotal votes without prior debate.

                If you have other polls, preferentially scientific ones conducted by an independent party, let’s hear it, from you.

                Council minutes will no doubt show there’s been plenty of debate. Go find those minutes and read them before you spread your disinformation here.

                Even the Deputy Mayor referes to agreement and misgivings; is she a mindreader too just like you?

                It seems I have to activate my recent moderation warning to you.

                • Gypsy

                  You're having some reading comprehension issues today.

                  "You made up these allegations,"

                  No. I quoted directly from the article.

                  "Even the Deputy Mayor referes to agreement and misgivings;"

                  But I didn't say there wasn't any disagreement – the votes were close, so clearly there was. What I said was that the mayor 'appears to have actively shut down debate', a claim supported directly from the article by the comments of Cr O'Malley.

                  "It seems I have to activate my recent moderation warning to you."

                  Go for your life. I'm not retracting comments that were based directly on the contents of an article that is in the public domain.

                  [Your conclusion is untenable from the info in that one single article. You make a serious allegation about the Mayor “actively” obstructing the democratic process, i.e. debate, apparent (to you) or not. There are many ways of a attempting a “serious opposition” (whatever that means) from mounting, e.g. persuasive arguments in open and robust debate and/or a legalistic behaviour. Evidence for this or to the contrary may be found in the minutes of Council meetings and/or elsewhere but you made no effort to find any because you’ve already made your conclusions and closed off your mind to other information. You also extrapolate from an unscientific poll result to come to your conclusion about the constituents of Dunedin. So, it is obvious that you subtly twist things your way to suit your bias and spread misinformation and disinformation. I have warned you recently this misleading behaviour here would result in an instant ban. So, take a week off – Incognito]

      • Ad 3.1.2

        Yes I'd suggest the local government elections are a reasonable proxy for what local government feels about 3 Waters. And government will have no choice but to listen if it continues to languish in the 36% range or worse.

        My feeling is that the government will "hear the word" of this upcoming result and put the proposal up for central government election.

        3 Waters is big enough to need a fresh mandate.

      • mikesh 3.1.3

        The fact that he has gone against 72% of his constituents doesn't mean he is not a 'good mayor'. Those constituents may be wrong.

    • Robert Guyton 3.2

      I support Aaron's actions and rationale. He has it right, imo, and the others have it wrong.

      • bad politics baby 3.2.1

        Dunedin resident here, & I support Hawkins.

      • McFlock 3.2.2

        If he has it right, it's by being lucky that his green party future career points in that direction, more than by his ability.

        Not sure how many of the council actually support 3waters. But the mana whenua do support it.

        So there is a chunk of council, like the mayor, who have "concern" or "misgivings" about it but will do nothing, and another chunk who are actually prepared to oppose it.

        There is a certain poetry to councils losing billions of dollars worth of assets with a farcical amount of compensation, with mana whenua looking on and cheering. Who says history never repeats, lol

  4. Poission 4

    30,000 Residents driven out of the Big Lemon over the last three years.Low rate of local GDP,excessive cost plus local economy.

    A more sustainable city would need another 100000 to leave.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/homed/housing-affordability/300556431/chief-economist-says-unaffordable-housing-in-auckland-is-driving-people-away

  5. SPC 5

    Some of those fighting in Ukraine are doing so to cause the fall of Putin, one group are Belarusians. They see Putin as one factor behind the continuance of the rule of the tyrant in Minsk.

    About 200 members of the volunteer battalion are serving on the front lines, including in Irpin on Kyiv’s outskirts, where Ukrainian forces recently regained control, Kulazhanka and other recruits said.

    They are funded and equipped mostly through donations from the Belarusian and Ukrainian diasporas, including in the United States. But the recent induction of the battalion into the armed forces has meant that some received guns and armor, including some supplied by NATO, from the Ukrainian military.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/04/01/ukraine-belarus-fighters-russia/?carta-url=https%3A%2F%2Fs2.washingtonpost.com%2Fcar-ln-tr%2F3677f44%2F62471fe679d9d21aa1133935%2F602879e6ae7e8a31ba10f3a9%2F8%2F70%2F62471fe679d9d21aa1133935

  6. Belladonna 6

    KO has been rapped over the knuckles by the Tenancy Tribunal for their gross failure to manage the impact of disruptive tenants on their neighbours. In this case both the parties were KO tenants.

    It was declared in the hearing that Kāinga Ora breached its legal obligation by failing to take all reasonable steps in ensuring the peace and comfort of their tenant.

    "While the landlord took some reasonable steps, it has become clear that the action taken by the landlord was inadequate," Walker said.

    "Some urgent action should have been taken for the landlord to meet their statutory responsibility."

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/kainga-ora-residents-tenancy-tribunal-complaint-after-neighbour-hell-for-three-years/JHLXUDIR4RO72KZKNQRUNNA7ME/?c_id=1&objectid=12515078&ref=rss

    It makes it evident that the statement last year from Poto Williams about KO taking a firmer line, was just so much hot air.

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/02/associate-minister-of-housing-poto-williams-steps-in-to-change-k-inga-ora-complaints-process-for-unruly-tenants.html

    There is nothing in the article, about recent steps (since this new policy was implemented in February) to deal with this issue.

    What I'm not seeing (or at least not reported) is a directive to KO to take urgent action – and move out the tenant with the significant and ongoing history of disruptive behaviour.

    The wimpish current policy of 'offering both parties alternative accommodation' (especially when they know there is no alternative accommodation) is useless. Evict the problem tenant, and leave the rest of the neighbourhood to enjoy a peaceful life.

    • Ad 6.1

      After evicting them, where would you put the inconvenient poor?

      • Sabine 6.1.1

        i don't know, maybe the same place these guys have to go to?

        https://www.stuff.co.nz/pou-tiaki/128142111/theyre-going-to-rip-our-whole-family-apart-a-week-after-mothers-death-kinga-ora-tells-family-to-leave

        or where ever these guys went to?

        https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/338294/housing-nz-orders-eviction-after-grandmother-s-death

        It seems that KO can evict people, just not the poor hard done criminal elements.

        • SPC 6.1.1.1

          The 2nd case occurred in 2017 under National.

          The 1st one though indicates those on the state house waiting house includes some who need an accessible wet accessible bathroom area (which would probably push them up the list). They probably usually get a new unit or any existing units once modified as soon as it is available.

          • Sabine 6.1.1.1.1

            The point i was making was that Kainga Ora does evict people. Just not hte violent antisocial assholes.

            Yeah, and they get a house when one is available.

            Come to Rotorua, go to Fenton street and understand that most of the motels are full with people who wait for a state house. And most of them are not violent antisocial assholes.

            Last, i see no difference between L and N, i consider them all unwilling to do what needs to be done when it comes to housing – affordable, clean and tidy housing.

            • Patricia Bremner 6.1.1.1.1.1

              Sabine, Kainga Ora are currently building many homes in Rotorua. More building has happened here in the last 12 months and this year than in the last 5o years we have lived in Rotorua. We built our first home here in 1973, that was the last time you could see new homes in all areas of Rotorua.
              A new subdivision is beginning on the corner of Ranolf and Malfroy Streets. Currntly there are 37 new homes in Pukehangi, 190 are planned city wide. So our suggestion they are the same as National is hogwash.

              • Patricia Bremner

                Edit function would not respond. "currently"

                • Sabine

                  According to this article from 2021 we have about 2000 homeless housed in motels in Rotorua.

                  https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300246795/rotorua-has-become-a-dumping-ground-for-the-countrys-homeless-some-locals-claim#:~:text=It's%20estimated%20that%20up%20to,45%20motels%20in%20the%20city.

                  It's estimated that up to 2000 homeless people – many of them from other centres – are staying at about 45 motels in the city. Last year, the Ministry of Social Development spent about $10m on emergency accommodation grants in Rotorua, which has the second worst homeless problem in the country, behind Auckland.

                  They can't build fast enough and plenty enough to make even just a dent, so now they are buying motels in Rotorua for the homeless families of our fair town.

                  there https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/125821220/govt-moves-from-paying-motels-to-house-homeless-to-buying-its-own-in-rotorua

                  The Government has spent $8.1m to buy a motel in Rotorua for temporary housing.

                  Housing homeless in Motels may be a stop gag, but its going to be a permanent one. 🙂

                  https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/461753/ardern-motel-housing-a-stopgap-measure-but-no-end-date-in-sight-for-rotorua

                  Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern says emergency accommodation is a "stopgap measure" and is concerned about its long-term social effects

                  However, she would not say how long motels would be used to house the homeless.

                  snip

                  She said the government had built more than 70 public houses and had 180 more in the pipeline.

                  snip

                  Rotorua-based list MP Tāmati Coffey said he believed that there were a lot of "desperate" locals who had been pushed out of the rental market in Rotorua's emergency accommodation.

                  "We don't want them to be in emergency housing, but we also don't want them to be filling up Kuirau Park. We also don't want them in the shops, in the door fronts of some of the shops around the CBD.

                  Btw, i live next to one of these houses that are being build. The property stood empty for two years, then the property got demolished, then the block stood empty for one year, now they have been building for about half a year, and i would guess it will take another half a year to finish.

                  At that rate and the number announced it will take another 20 odd years to house the estimated 2000 people (2021 number) in houses.

                  Btw, my neighbourgh has a family member live in the Garage, it is safer there then in the Motels. Go figure.

                  Fwiw, i think the effort of N and L in regards to housing are negligable.

                  Never mind the properties that got demolished, surely for the greater good and some new houses. Hopefully. Never mind that we actually now have less state houses then we used too.

                  https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/04/government-has-sold-or-demolished-nearly-2000-state-houses-since-july-2018.html

                  The Government has sold or demolished nearly 2000 state houses since July 2018, Newshub can reveal.

                  And while Housing Minister Megan Woods continues to trumpet a bonanza state house build, the number of state houses managed by Kāinga Ora – Housing NZ – has actually fallen.

          • alwyn 6.1.1.1.2

            The second eviction never took place. It was cancelled while National were, just, still the Government. The daughter who took over the lease gave special thanks to the Destiny Church. They must do some good.
            https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/339203/grandchildren-facing-loss-of-state-home-given-reprieve

            • SPC 6.1.1.1.2.1

              The link also mentions

              Ms Morris credited Destiny Church's Man Up programme, Whānau Ora, Auckland Action Against Poverty and the Blind Foundation for their continued support throughout the family's tenancy process.

              She said Mangere Housing New Zealand staff also treated the family with dignity.

              https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/339203/grandchildren-facing-loss-of-state-home-given-reprieve

              • KJT

                I know two people that have been "saved" from a drunken and lonely old age by Destiny Church.

                It appears to be more than just a vanity and self enrichment project of Tamaki's, for many in it.

                I suspect like most churches, and other "gangs", they have to be more than just a money making outfit to keep members.

                Just heard an acquaintance has transferred from Destiny to Equip. Apparently the tithe is cheaper!
                Tempted to let them know that the Presbyterians and Sallies etc, offer the same services, for a voluntary donation!

      • Belladonna 6.1.2

        Well, I guess they can go to the back of the line of the 20,000+ families who are waiting for a KO house.

        'Inconvenience' is people parking on the berm, or not mowing the lawn, or having parties every weekend. Annoying. But you just live with it.

        This is (as determined by both the police and the Tenancy Tribunal) illegal antisocial behaviour (threats, harassment, etc.). No neighbour should have to put up with it, because KO can't deal with a problem tenant.

        And, 9/10 of the problem behaviour would stop immediately, if the tenants concerned knew they would be kicked out for anti-social behaviour.

        • Ad 6.1.2.1

          The state has a duty to assholes.

          There's nowhere to sleep at the back of this line.

          We didn't bring our total prison number down from 12,000 to 8000 by more punishment.

          The hard cases need even greater state support.

          • Sabine 6.1.2.1.1

            The government can rent a motel just for these assholes and hide them there just as they do with those that are not antisocial violent assholes but who are unlucky enough to not being put up in state houses as these antisocial violent assholes. Like all the several hundreds of families that can’t get state houses because the government gives them to violent antisocial assholes. .

            No they don't need greater support, they need no support. At some stage you cut the abuser out of your life and you put the effort to those that want to be good and law abiding citizens.

            • SPC 6.1.2.1.1.1

              Yep a motel set up just for these people is the right approach.

            • Ad 6.1.2.1.1.2

              We house each criminal in this country with an average subsidy of $150,000 per year.

              You can't get rid of the problem until you solve it.

              • Belladonna

                Unfortunately, the 'cost' of not solving the problem is being borne by the neighbours – who are trapped in the situation with no way out.

                They have rights, too. As this Tenancy Tribunal case has made crystal clear to KO.

                • Ad

                  Neighbours have rights. Sure.

                  The right to safe housing is stronger.

                  It's weak to simply say you can just chuck them on the streets. As if our duty of care is exhausted because it's hard.

                  The hard question the left must always answer is:

                  How do we care for and fix the most damaged?

                  • Belladonna

                    The right to safety from your feral neighbours is stronger.
                    Bear in mind that we are talking about people who conduct a relentless campaign of active harassment, threats, property damage and actual physical violence.
                    Just imagine what that does to your mental health, let alone physical well-being. We've had story, after story, in the media of families who are literally afraid to leave their houses, because of the (usually gang adjacent) neighbours.
                    Nothing preventing KO from choosing to house the anti-social in motels – it's still a 'roof over their heads' – just not one that's particularly attractive.

                    Given that the State can't care for and fix everyone at the same time (9 years of neglect, I hear the echo); then perhaps they need to follow standard triage principles, and deal with the people who 'can' be fixed in the short term. Get them out of the way and resolved, and then try to do something about the long-term dysfunctional.

                    Because, the fastest way to make a gang life attractive to the next generation, is to see criminals getting way with anti-social and intimidating behaviour with zero consequences.

                  • greywarshark

                    How – you sit down and have a hard think and pull out your hankies.

                    And the other people who have been trying to be good citizens and not have their children turn in to a…holes just should look on with a saintly expression and get a big dog with big teeth. I saw in a usa film about a working solo father trying to protect his two boys in their inadequate room. He barked when people rattled the doorknob as he couldn't afford a dog. Or perhaps a recording? Ideas that the helpful government should pass on to it's poor and reasonably honest tenants.

                    People who are most damged probably can never be rehabilitated. They should have a special working farm prison with amenities and get locked into their rooms at night so they can't get out and start fires, pinch farm bikes, rape women or whatever has become their habitual obsession. They could be happy there so for god's sake take away their freedom – to create misery. And have tough cahps in charge, just practice isolation for people who threaten attack and never trust them completely, safety first and stun guns as backups. If they behave it could be a good place with their own room and decent bedding as long as they don't get the urge to slash it. Most of the men, no women permanently there, would be likely to have been assessed as mentally unbalanced.

                  • Gabby

                    But apparently you prioritise one right to SAFE housing over the other.

              • Sabine

                So we are not solving anything considering that these people cause harm to law abiding citizens – presumably at their cost. So that is OK?

                And some will always end up in Prison – that is why we have prisons, to get the criminal elements that wreak havoc in the community out of hte community.

                In the meantime we are warehousing families who work in rundown motels at a million dollar or so

                But then you might consider that cheap.

                https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/03/revealed-the-multimillion-dollar-cost-of-the-government-s-emergency-motel-policy.html

                so my solution would be that these guys can live in a run down motel and the good state houses go to good families that work, but don't make enough to pay market rent. But i guess that is not awesome and 'woke' enough.

                • Ad

                  It is an outrage that you have no qualms about comparing assholes to criminals. They are of course not the same thing.

                  People who have no money for a long time have a propensity to be assholes because they have to fight for absolutely everything and everything in their life can be taken away – such little as they have.

                  Anyone who carries the badge 'woke' for actually caring for people that are really really hard to deal with … well those people don't give much thought for your labels.

                  You'll see such people out every weekend with other badges on them like St Johns, St Vincent De Paul, St Francis, Te Whanau Waipereira, Habitat for Humanity, Barnardo's, Tear Fund, The Compassion Soup Kitchen, City Mission, World Vision, and bunches of Anglican and Catholic trusts and entities. Kiwi volunteers and underpaid staff by the thousand.

                  They don't give a damn about how you disparage their work or the people they work with.

                  They understand your scorn, derision, rage and urge to punish. They've seen those stories for several thousand years.

                  • greywarshark

                    People who have no money for a long time have a propensity to be assholes because they have to fight for absolutely everything and everything in their life can be taken away – such little as they have.

                    You have hit the nail on the head Ad. The above description is a plan for growing more assholes. You big softie Ad. Could you spread your sympathy wider to people who bear the brunt of thr poor caring of these people by authority figures for many years. As many of those people suffering from the effects of those poorly cared for people is likely to follow the same path as them, never having seen a different life, but forced to live amongst the rough, dishonest or vicious. Role models you know, get copied.

            • Patricia Bremner 6.1.2.1.1.3

              Sabine, These "arseholes" have families. What do you propose?

              • Sabine

                surely Tiny Dean has a motel space available for them on Fenton Street.

                That is where we warehouse homeless families that work in many cases and can not afford rent. Just a thought. Or is that to good for criminals that wreak havoc in the areas where they get state houses that seemingly one can only get when one is a lawbreaking antisocial criminal.

                How bout that Patricia?

                • Ad

                  Only Germans would have such conveniently short memories.

                • Patricia Bremner

                  That is just sour nastiness Sabine, and your constant attacks on the motelliers who have offered their properties says more about your bitterness than their motives. Constant carping and wild generalisations don't prove a thing. Too broad a brush. You confirmed the building programme, then got hung up on the time it takes to get consents and do infrastructure.. typical.!!angry

                  • Sabine

                    No sour nastiness about that at all Patricia. Just facts, inconvenient facts.

                    It was facts when National did nothing to alleviate the housing crisis and started housing people in motels and it is a fact now that Labour does it too.

                    We are warehousing people for month/years on end in Motels. In Rotorua and elsewhere.

                    And if you are pleased with the little that is happening that is good for you. Me i look at my neighbor in his two bedroom unit, with his wife, his son, the daughter, the grand child and the occasional cuzzy cause they have no where to go. This is now a fact in any town in NZ, but particularly in Auckland and Rotorua. Nothing nasty about that. It is actually just a tragedy. A tragedy of epic proportions.

              • Belladonna

                I think Sabine has been really clear about her proposal – rent a motel for the people who are unable to live in a civilized fashion with their neighbours.

                What's your one? Or do you think it's OK for them to continue their reign of terror (and that's exactly what it is, in some instances), with no consequences.

                My proposal would be to rent the house next to Poto Williams, and put them there.

                • Ad

                  Sabine's solution is a ghetto worse than any you have ever seen in this country. TReat people like scum and replicate the problem a hundredfold.

                  My solution would look something like Hobsonville.

                  Who we are » Hobsonville Point

                  • SPC

                    In the real world, there are already people living in the said motels on the waiting list for state housing.

                    And telling people in state housing that Labour will do nothing about their neighbour problems leaves them to wonder whether they would be better off under National.

                    • Ad

                      So it should. Unless there is a social contract for all of us, not just the deserving, the left has no leg to stand on.

                    • SPC

                      To prove itself serious about such a social contract Labour would have abandon debt targets and bring in CGT, wealth and estate taxation and MMT. And at some risk of being seen as too radical for the centre.

                      On current policy settings it would have to plot a more measured course – and that means winning elections regularly if it is to make progress over time. That does not happen if the people in state housing are unhappy, or those in motels, because of the behaviour of their neighbours.

                      The social contract also involves law – landlords have certain responsibilities – including KO.

                  • Belladonna

                    So, in your Hobsonville Plus vision – what do you do with a tenant who consistently exhibits anti-social behaviour (loud parties til 3am, smashed bottles across shared driveways, hard-core gang associates visiting, dealing drugs, feral dogs chained on the property, physical intimidation, threats, and actual violence against anyone who is brave enough to complain, regular and open domestic violence against women and children resident at the property, etc.)

                    [Before you say I'm making this up – all of this has been witnessed by friends at a local KO house – luckily, for them, slightly down the road, rather than actually next door]

                    Don't say the police will deal with it – because they won't – or at least, not until there is a case of actual assault – and even then it will be 'a visitor to the house' rather than a resident, so KO won't do anything.

                    Treat people like scum and replicate the problem a hundredfold.

                    That's exactly what KO are doing to the innocent neighbours caught up in this drama. Treating them like scum….

                    • Ad

                      I do not doubt your example. And I am sure there are hundreds more.

                      You apply as many wraparound services as are required to change the situation. It usually involves a set of interventions from the following state entities, and there's no particular order to this:

                      Kainga Ora, NZPolice, MSD, MoE, local Kura, MOH and DHBs, urban Maori trust services, Oranga Tamariki or whatever it will be called, local service trusts, wider family members, tonnes upon tonnes of taxpayer $$ and family group conferences, Corrections and MoJ, and finally employers who are prepared to take on Not in Education Employment or Training …

                      … literally hundreds of thousands of dollars working day after day to lever each and every one of these people out of the desperation and rage they are in.

                      And yes not all fo them will work and some will still go to gangs, for which the only control is NZPolice and MoJ and Corrections. But then, how did we bring our jail count down from 13,000 to 8,000 in 2 terms?

                      Hobsonville has most of those services built in.

                      No it is not easy. Yes that is is what our taxpayer funding is for. Yes that is the essence of the social democratic state.

                    • Gabby

                      A hostel might be a solution. Where obstreperous 'guests' could be kept away from those who can play nicely with others.

                  • greywarshark

                    Pretty pictures and plans, very artistic. But people who want to be good citizens are being treated like scum under the present system Ad. If you don' think that is right the present system is wrong, and should be changed speedily for a better one. What can you do about that, without having fancy modern housing.

                    Just help with something now not in future years when built, warm, dry house, with sun and light, safe space for kids to play,some shade area beside for super hot summers, friendly, respectful neighbours, own area with gate for wandering dogs and people (though a man who insisted on entering a property despite a warning notice not to use the back entrance, got bitten by the guard dog in one Nelson property, and was able to plead rights and the dog be ordered to be put down). Makes you realise that you are on a different planet than Labour planners. Send in the clowns – Don't you love a farce? My fault, I fear,
                    I thought that you'd want what I want
                    Sorry my dear…

                • Incognito

                  Sabine’s proposal sucks and is a typical simpleton solution. Unless such motel is in the wop-wops there will always be neighbours in the hood, just not in adjacent rooms.

                  Your proposal sounds moronic.

                • Sabine

                  Now that is a really good idea, and some could be housed right next to Carmel Sepuloni, Phil Twyford and so on and so forth.

                  • Ad

                    To see what 300 truly unrepentant undesirable outsiders next door to an MP, look no further than the protests at Parliament weeks ago.

                    Everyone but Act simply denied they existed.

                    Your desire for schadenfreude achieves nothing.

                    • Sabine

                      I am not sure, Why don't we try?

                      The issue is not going away by not doing anything. It is getting worse. And anyone who will run on 'law and order' will pick up all those that feel that law and order has been abandoned.

                      We have no issues housing homeless people in motels the up and down the country. At great cost to the tax payer – as they are the ones that pay all the bills.

                      But i guess we will see what happen in the near future. Elections are only a few months away.

                  • Drowsy M. Kram

                    Elections are only a few months away.

                    They’re always only a few months away. Which public assets will NAct flog off to their rich mates this time, and what public services will be privatised – gotta fund those tax cuts. My money's on water assets and health services (the pandemic’s over, right?), and they might give Serco another go – plenty of wealth to gorge on yet.

                    But I guess we'll see what happens in a few months.

          • Belladonna 6.1.2.1.2

            "There's nowhere to sleep at the back of this line."

            Really, so we have 20,000+ families sleeping in cars, then?

            No, they're in motels – which everyone acknowledges is not adequate housing (apart from the most temporary of emergency housing).
            But it does give them somewhere to sleep.

            • Ad 6.1.2.1.2.1

              Like every really difficult family is just another can to kick down the road.

              Don't become a public servant whatever you do.

              • SPC

                In February this year, Kainga Ora national services general manager Nick Maling announced a suite of changes to policy that would strengthen the way it managed disruptive behaviour in its homes.

                Maling said the Residential Tenancies Act provided more scope to deal with unruly tenants by enabling Kāinga Ora to move disruptive residents out of communities more easily.

                These changes included Kāinga Ora implementing a warnings process that allowed the public housing landlord to take disruptive tenants to the tribunal to end a tenancy if three incidents of a serious nature were documented in a 90-day period.

                Maling noted they did not want to make tenants homeless and would work to provide alternative housing and support to address the causes behind residents' behaviour.

                The changes were part of a broader Kāinga Ora Customer Programme that was focused on the wellbeing of state housing tenants and the communities they lived in, Maling said.

                https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/kainga-ora-residents-tenancy-tribunal-complaint-after-neighbour-hell-for-three-years/JHLXUDIR4RO72KZKNQRUNNA7ME/

                The state landlord says it's been warned by other agencies that evicting disruptive tenants would make their work with them "a waste of time".

                https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/461209/other-agencies-discourage-kainga-ora-from-evicting-misbehaving-tenants-select-committee-told

                Maybe Kainga Ora tenants who have concerns about their neighbours behaviour need to become clients of the said agencies … .

                Funny thing is National wants some of the said agencies to have a greater role in the lives of those on welfare, agencies that oppose National’s approach on Kainga Ora.

              • Belladonna

                Oh, so it's fine for an 'ordinary' law-abiding family to be stuck in motel accommodation, but it's too sub-standard for anti-social criminals.

                If they're a 'really difficult family' then just maybe – bog-standard KO independent living is *not* the most appropriate solution for them.

                I'd like to see some actively monitored housing precincts (could be apartments) – which have a zero-tolerance for gang presence, and are gated so residents only.

                • Sabine

                  I would assume that most people in these households are 'ok', but that one or two elements are not. These are the people that need to be removed. And if they are law breaking they need to be arrested, and locked up. And that is the issue, innit, that we are currently not arresting and locking up people who cause havoc.

                  Oh well, i guess its fair go for the 'tough on law and order crowd' as the current crowd seems to simply pretend that if you don't lock them up they will rehabilitate themselves, and no it wont be cheaper either as per the Corrections Ministers, cause average and fixed costs and leases.

                  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/exclusive-expensive-failure-new-zealands-cost-per-prisoner-rises-while-jail-population-

    • GreenBus 6.2

      What happens to the problem tenant after eviction, rather who's problem will it be next?

      Does the law have any sway i.e fines or court?

    • Gypsy 6.3

      KO are arguably the worst landlord in NZ. And Poto has to be in line to be one of our worst cabinet ministers.

  7. Ad 7

    Sorry to see Jen Psaki shifting from the White House to MSNBC.

    Maybe Biden could swap for Rachel Maddow.

    • Puckish Rogue 7.1

      Good for her, imagine having to clean up after another Biden brain fart.

      • Sabine 7.1.1

        I would also assume better pay and a longer contract.

        • Ad 7.1.1.1

          MSNBC is bleeding even faster than CNN. Better off joining Joe Rogan.

          • Sabine 7.1.1.1.1

            I consider it all just performative info/entertainment and i don't care nor do i listen/watch to either them.

  8. roblogic 8

    Something is rotten at the heart of UK politics. The Russian oligarchy has embedded its tentacles deep in the Britsh aristocracy and they are exercising considerable power to suppress the truth. Reminds me of the Jian Yang saga and National's (no so hidden) propensity to suck up to CCP money

    • Bruce 8.1

      Interesting post on the connection between oligarachs and UK torys.

      https://fb.watch/c7oBj0CGT4/

    • Ad 8.2

      Are some billionaires more moral because they are not billionaires called oligarchs?

      Anyone who doesn't think we have a fully functioning oligarchy here in New Zealand is gravely mistaken.

      Bernie Sanders gets it.

      Anybody who thinks we do not have an oligarchy right here in America is sorely mistaken. – YouTube

      Like Russia, we are a deeply unequal society with an exceptionally narrow intermarried inter-director network with no more than a handful of key net worth people in: housing, building supplies, ports, airports, groceries, fuel, politics, media, milk, agriculture, meat, banking, bread, fruit, electricity production, broadband, and more. Most of our debt is controlled by Australia, and most of what we make is taken by China: just 2 countries.

      We're under a total illusion that we are more economically free than Russia.

      Bruce Jesson and WB Sutch would recognise this country as the worst possible scenario they had imagined.

      • Stuart Munro 8.2.1

        Well it's Michel's Iron Law after all.

        But Kremlin aligned oligarchs are perhaps unusually active in promoting sociopathies like Brexit, which was intended to reduce the UK's influence and the effectiveness and cohesion of European powers.

        The sociopathy of a Bill Gates is not intentionally directed towards the wrecking of Western society (though the various windows systems are hardly benign), they are his customers after all. But this limitation is not true of Kremlin operations, who would not be at all sad to see the present order collapse. They are in a very real sense the enemies of our states.

        • Ad 8.2.1.1

          As Mickey Savage noted yesterday, our own 1% elite political donor class is pretty open about the politics it funds.

          • Stuart Munro 8.2.1.1.1

            Yeah – wage suppression and climate denial – useless backward turkeys.

  9. Psycho Milt 9

    It's no more likely that Russians will be prosecuted for war crimes in Ukraine than Americans have been for theirs, but if tribunals were to be set up then there'd be a bunch of slam-dunk cases.

  10. Joe90 10

    Will no one think of whining, thin-skinned Nazi far right feels.

  11. Ad 11

    Well I give thanks today that I don't live in Sri Lanka.

    As prices soar in crisis-hit Sri Lanka, many forced to moonlight | News | Al Jazeera

    "Historically weak government finances, badly timed tax cuts and the COVID-19 pandemic, which hit the vital tourism industry, have decimated the economy, triggering a currency crisis that has disrupted fuel imports and caused skyrocketing food prices."

  12. Belladonna 12

    Just read the obit for Dame Miriam Dell – what an outstanding woman. Just reading through this, it's filled with 'only woman on' and 'first woman to' – it's due to her (and the team of strong women around her) that we have made such progress towards equality not, that I – or probably Dell – think that we're there yet

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/women-of-influence/128191223/obituary-teamaking-snub-spurred-a-lifetime-of-advocacy-for-women

    • Sabine 12.1

      That was a lovely read, she would have been awesome to meet. Make us some tea dear! Yeah, nah nah, make your own cuppa. Signed, the token woman.

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