Open mike 02/07/2023

87 comments on “Open mike 02/07/2023 ”

• Comments are now closed

1. Ad 1

   2 July 2023 at 9:05 am

   110,000 households or about the population of Wellington and Hutt valley dont have enough money to heat their homes,

   https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/132437115/chilling-energy-hardship-data-puts-the-heat-back-on-power-companies

   and this is with the winter heating allowance.
   • weka 1.1

     2 July 2023 at 10:47 am

     yep. And in the colder parts of NZ, we have higher heating needs outside of winter and the winter energy payment only runs May – Sept. People with wood burners need to buy firewood in summer for it to be dry for winter. People with electric heating often have cold, snow and frosts outside of the WEP time.

     Labour have done well with things like WEP which are tax free and don't afaik affect the abatement via wages. But we actually need welfare reform alongside universal services. Time to nationalise power.
     • Shanreagh 1.1.1

       2 July 2023 at 11:54 am

       People with wood burners need to buy firewood in summer for it to be dry for winter.

       I am ringing WINZ on another matter this week and that was one of the points I was going to dicuss.

       I was going to suggest that it people be given the option of having it granted as a total in Feb say so we could buy firewood. In the olden days, I never got it, you could capitalise the Family Benefit to make up a lump sum to add to a home purchase.

       At the mmoment i am able to be one of the best wood scroungers around and am able to use a circular saw to cut and prepare it but sooner or later these options are not going to be available.

       I use the wood burner in preference to electricity as I am able to clearly identify the inputs/outputs plus it keeps the house warmer.

       I also have a view that keeping just one room warm while the rest of the house is an ice box is not good for health.
2. weston 2

   2 July 2023 at 9:11 am

   This guys been around for a while normally talking about tools and their use this time its about windmills in his area and their demolition .When you look at the landscape its just corn and windmills an more of the same .

   
   
   
   • Ad 2.1

     2 July 2023 at 9:33 am

     What a moron.

     Studies on the comparative subsidies of modes per kilowatt hour are practically an industry in itself, and have been for a long time.

     https://www.iea.org/policies/3936-tax-subsidies-for-power-production-based-on-renewable-energy-sources

     https://world-nuclear.org/information-library/economic-aspects/energy-subsidies.aspx

     https://www.iisd.org/gsi/sites/default/files/power_gen_subsidies.pdf

     https://www.irena.org/-/media/Files/IRENA/Agency/Publication/2020/Apr/IRENA_Energy_subsidies_2020.pdf

     https://www.eia.gov/outlooks/aeo/pdf/electricity_generation.pdf

     Did he think private enterprise built the Benmore Dam?

     Don't post idiots.
     • weston 2.1.1

       2 July 2023 at 10:41 am

       He genuinely asked for advice on the topic which if you had watched more than ten seconds of the video you might have gleaned .Since when has asking for advice been a hanging offence ?. Ive watched quite a few of his videos over the years and can assure you he knows more about his specific areas of expertise than you and i will ever know .Hardly an idiot .

       Personally i dont give a fuck about his opinion on windmills and even less about yours .Being in the process of putting up a turbine myself i noticed his content thats all though the snapshot of that small corner of the US is interesting in and of itself .
3. Ed 3

   2 July 2023 at 9:40 am

   Jan Tinetti has just been absolutely embarassed by Jack Tame on Q and A.

   https://www.tvnz.co.nz/shows/q-and-a

   Our education is in crisis and Labour have no answers.

   I am not saying National or Act are the solution – quite the opposite.

   The solution is to turn back to socialism and genuine state education, as opposed to the neoliberal tomorrow's education model.

   Sadly, I cannot see any party prepared to take New Zealand back from the plutocrats.
   • psych nurse 3.1

     2 July 2023 at 10:30 am

     It's only old farts who think Education is in crisis, just because you once went to school does not make you an expert. It's like saying that because you once did a valve grind on a Morris Oxford Series E your now an expert on modern Hybrid cars.
     • bwaghorn 3.1.1

       2 July 2023 at 11:10 am

       Mines doing really well at yr9, passing everything, free lunchs at our local college, bloody handy for a busy solo dad I tell ya.

       They appear to be taught in a far more ingaging manner to how I was back in the dark ages.
     • Corey 3.1.2

       2 July 2023 at 1:04 pm

       My little brother is 16 and going to a pretty good school.

       While he passed, More than half his class failed NCEA level one last year.

       The amount of illiteracy in his high school is staggering.

       Education is actually in grave trouble.

       A lot of this is due to the months/years a lot of young people missed in education due to the pandemic, though we still need to find a way to get the education they missed into them.

       There's also a massive problem with polytechnics, the merger failed, if something doesn't work we fix it, we don't block our ears and pretend it does.

       Eventually we're also going to have to something sort our universities, they continue to tumble down the international rankings.

       I actually think, all of parliament needs to come up with an education plan that works and stick to it long term.

       Right now everytime the govt changes our education sector sees massive reforms almost always based on the ideology of the govt of the day rather than results and it causes massive disruption to the system and costs tax payers loads of money.
       • Ed 3.1.2.1

         2 July 2023 at 2:00 pm

         Totally agree Corey.
       • ianmac 3.1.2.2

         2 July 2023 at 3:17 pm

         Corey: "something sort our universities, they continue to tumble down the international rankings."

         Not so. All 8 of our Universities had their grading upgraded.
       • Vivie 3.1.2.3

         2 July 2023 at 9:18 pm

         Corey: As your brother is aged 16, presumably he and his classmates started school 11 years ago i.e. in 2012. Their formative education years (the critical time to learn fluent reading and maths) were during the last National government.

         NZ's low literacy and numeracy levels, which are showing up in secondary school tests, are the result of problems building up over time. The problems would have been evident at primary school.

         It seems some teachers were/are unable to effectively teach children to gain reading skills, as described in the following linked article. The balanced literacy teaching method appears to be the major cause of NZ's literacy crisis. If children are unable to read properly, this will affect all areas of their learning.

         https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/463704/now-i-don-t-know-my-abc-report-exposes-crisis-in-literacy
       • Sabine 3.1.2.4

         3 July 2023 at 8:41 am

         While he passed, More than half his class failed NCEA level one last year.

         Well that almost 50% who passed, let's celebrate. The future don't need educated people.
   • miravox 3.2

     2 July 2023 at 2:09 pm

     Really? I thought she stated the changes to improve literacy and the education system very clearly. She didn't shy away from discussing the problems in the system either.

     i was impressed by the way she managed the interview.
     • Ed 3.2.1

       2 July 2023 at 2:52 pm

       Interesting how two people come away from watching an interview with such different points of view.
   • Sabine 3.3

     3 July 2023 at 8:48 am

     Jan Tinetti is an unlucky person. Education was / is fucked for a while now. I would like to point out that Jan inherited Education from the current PM when the previous PM resigned.

     Chris Hipkins is their name and they were Education Minister from 2017 – 2023.

     It was the PM in their role as Education Minister who has been fucking it up. The kids just pay the price, after all both Jan Tinetti – place holder and Chippy – ex minister for education got theirs when the going was good and they also got decent jobs.

     So i can totally understand why Jan Tinetty is clearly out of the know as they have no idea what they do, they are just a place holder.

     List of Education Ministers

     No.
     Name
     Term of Office
     

     47	Chris Hipkins	25 January 2023
     48	Jan Tinetti	present
4. Bearded Git 4

   2 July 2023 at 9:43 am

   https://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/300918717/labour-minister-kiri-allans-future-in-the-balance

   More speculation/making things up here from Vernon Small. He says:

   "What is unusual this time around is the public acknowledgement of problems – some on, some off the record"

   To my knowledge nobody that has revealed their identity to the public has come forward. It is all off the record.

   Small also says:

   "….and more detail to come – Hipkins has little option but to undertake some sort of inquiry."

   If a formal complaint is made, I'm sure there will be an enquiry. Until then Small is making things up and should know better.
   • Sanctuary 4.1

     2 July 2023 at 10:45 am

     Stuff keenly wants a scalp in reward for their investment in "getting" Kiri Allan.

     Speaking of stuff, their defeatist negativity is completely out of control at the moment. Did someone get Tracy Watkins car towed away for parking on some yellow lines or something?

     Two recent sample headlines:

     'The country is stuffed':

     I wish I'd moved to Australia sooner
     • Jilly Bee 4.1.1

       2 July 2023 at 11:42 am

       I read that article 'The Country is Stuffed'. I bet that tosser is also grizzling about the state of roads (potholes etc) or he just doesn't keep up with the news. Surely he must be aware of the immense damage the Cyclone and ongoing rain bearing fronts have been wrecking many parts of the roading network over the past 5 months – what/who does he think pays for remediation and new roads and bridges. Our household subscribes to the Sunday Star Times (after years of putting up with The Herald). These two outlets are madly competing for Nats Arselicker of the Year Award. Thank goodness their cartoonists – Sharon Murdoch and Emmerson do their bit for a bit of balance.
       • Jester 4.1.1.1

         2 July 2023 at 12:30 pm

         Stuff came out as the most left leaning news site. The NZ Herald is far more balanced.

         NZ Herald rated as NZ's most politically balanced media outlet – theFacts.
         • bwaghorn 4.1.1.1.1

           2 July 2023 at 12:45 pm

           Being the furthest left just means everyone else is to your right,

           that being said I find stuff mostly balanced , but prone to finding the biggest wingers they can to get clicks.
           • Jester 4.1.1.1.1.1

             2 July 2023 at 1:40 pm

             None of the news outlets in the survey will 'Left' enough for yourself.
             • bwaghorn …

               2 July 2023 at 9:45 pm

               Wouldn't consider myself as that left, stuff gives Damien Grant a column so their obviously not hard left.
         • Jilly Bee 4.1.1.1.2

           2 July 2023 at 1:12 pm

           'The NZ Herald is far more balanced.'
       • bwaghorn 4.1.1.2

         2 July 2023 at 12:30 pm

         She said holden driver, what's the odds it's a gas burning commodore? Ya reckon. ?
   • Shanreagh 4.2

     2 July 2023 at 11:32 am

     One of the key points from my point of view is that the reports, especially from the senior PS do not end with the comment or similar

     'I put the phone down and then shortly after it rang again and it was the Minister who said she wanted to apologise.'

     In fact the fact that it was not mentioned probably meant there was no apology or that the pattern repeated despite an apology.

     I am sure that if this had been part of the story it would have been stated and we would have a very different picture. From what I am reading apologies did not happen. I think this is part of the problem.

     While my stint with Ministers was trouble free I did have a very high, in the pecking order high Minister tear a strip off me once at a briefing. I reported it to my minister who said 'the only person who entitled to tear a strip off you is me and I am not about to start doing this'

     He tried to ring but could not and the reason was that the Minister was on their way down to apologise to me in person and to work with me to get the papers sorted, working against the clock. My minister was very surprised when he opened my office door a little while later (our doors were routinely left open) to find us both esconced in there.

     So when the niceties are observed there is a very different story to tell.

     I think whoever is going to investigate this, if it gets to this level, should see if an apology was made. If one was made then that is usually the end of the matter, unless berating becomes a pattern.
   • Psycho Milt 4.3

     2 July 2023 at 6:40 pm

     These wankers. "…undertake some sort of inquiry."

     An inquiry into what, exactly? There are no complaints to investigate. What specific events or claims would be the focus of this inquiry? These wazzocks seem to imagine govts should pay people to go on fishing expeditions for bad behaviour based on nothing more than gossip.
5. tWiggle 5

   2 July 2023 at 10:07 am

   Musk gate-keeping at twitter, apparently to stop AI scraping for language model learning. But also, to use looks like you will have to join.
   • Sanctuary 5.1

     2 July 2023 at 10:24 am

     Elon Musk is a real idiot – his platform sells eyes, so he limits the eyes? It is just an excuse. But anyway, the site is increasingly moribund. It is like a party at 4am – the only people left are the drunk ranters in the kitchen and a few of the desperate chain smoking while they rack up the last of the cocaine in one of the bedrooms.

     The party people have long decamped to the clubs and the rest went home at midnight. The fun has left the house.

     Twitter haven't paid their AWS bill – Amazon said they'd start throttling their pipe back after June 30th if there was no payment. Musk's rump staff have been transferring away from AWS to where ever they can find, but he doesn't have the people.

     Twitter is going bankrupt fast.
     • Sanctuary 5.1.1

       2 July 2023 at 10:36 am

       Correction to the above -it was Googles cloud services, not AWS
     • weka 5.1.2

       2 July 2023 at 10:52 am

       Twitter is going bankrupt fast.

       People have been saying twitter failure is imminent since Musk took over 9 months ago.

       The party people have long decamped to the clubs and the rest went home at midnight. The fun has left the house.

       Meanwhile, four areas that I see still using twitter as a major networking and communication tool: NZpol, including the MSM (despite the early exodus to Mastodon which isn't suitable for politics), feminists, gender critical movements, and the right.
       • Sanctuary 5.1.2.1

         2 July 2023 at 11:00 am

         Elon is shoving Linda to the edge of the glass cliff, that is all I'm going to say.
         • weka 5.1.2.1.1

           2 July 2023 at 11:06 am

           gazing at the twitter crystal ball is one way to spend the time I guess.
         • joe90 5.1.2.1.2

           2 July 2023 at 12:51 pm

           A soothing cuppa should do it.

           

           https://www.businessinsider.com/twitter-ceo-linda-yaccarino-tries-boosting-morale-with-tea-time-2023-6
     • joe90 5.1.3

       2 July 2023 at 12:24 pm

       He reckons he's going to Mars, too.

       Skulls in the Stars @drskyskull@mastodon.social

       “Elon must be destroying the site on purpose he can’t be that stupid!” Last week a billionaire imploded, literally, because he thought he could outsmart the laws of physics. Never being told “no” makes a person stupid.

       https://mastodon.social/@drskyskull/110640407308011821
     • Psycho Milt 5.1.4

       2 July 2023 at 6:43 pm

       When we get to a year's worth of fantasies about Twitter's imminent demise, will people give it a rest, do you think?
6. tWiggle 6

   2 July 2023 at 10:13 am

   https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/jun/27/corporate-profits-driving-up-prices-ecb-president-christine-lagarde

   '…the IMF said: “Rising corporate profits account for almost half the increase in Europe’s inflation over the past two years as companies increased prices by more than spiking costs of imported energy.

   “Now that workers are pushing for pay rises to recoup lost purchasing power, companies may have to accept a smaller profit share if inflation is to remain on track to reach the European Central Bank’s 2% target in 2025.'
7. Anne 7

   2 July 2023 at 11:02 am

   Sheesh!

   So the lunatic right are now trying to rewrite NZ history by creating history books full of mis and dis-information and sending them to unsuspecting schools.

   The usual story… the writers are not historians in any sense of the word but are claiming to be the experts.

   During the heyday of the CC deniers, we had the same problem. The so called denier experts had little to no professional qualifications on meteorology and/or climatology but still claimed to be the experts.

   https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/300899633/racist-propaganda-the-undercover-campaign-to-infiltrate-school-libraries
   • Belladonna 7.1

     2 July 2023 at 11:33 am

     This is not new (I work in this industry, so get an insider's perspective).

     Since the advent of self-publishing – anyone can easily write and publish a book on any topic. Many are badly written with spelling and grammar errors. Some are blatant copyright infringements (illegally copying a work which is still under copyright – and changing the author and title; or simply copy the Wikipedia article on the topic). Some are slanted to support a 'niche' view of the topic (although these existed pre-self-publishing, too – didn't you know that NZ was discovered by the Spanish ).

     Once a book is 'published' it's available in all of the online platforms from which public and school libraries source their material.

     Really, the main difference with this one – is that they are actually approaching schools directly – which probably means that their book 'looks' legit (reasonable publishing quality, historical photos, etc.). So, it would require someone to review it in depth to evaluate the quality. Which clearly this school librarian has, and the teachers did not.
     • Anne 7.1.1

       2 July 2023 at 12:13 pm

       That is interesting information.

       It looks like the review standards need to be changed in order to ensure these 'fake' books (because in a sense that is what they are) do not make it to the school shelves or any other sensitive public shelf.

       We have seen from the Covid years, the extraordinary amount of damage online false information can have on a society and there seems to be no pathway out of this conundrum. To be fair it is the extremities at both ends of the spectrum who are at fault here.

       Educating a whole generation to be able to differentiate between truth and falsehood is the only answer but that is going to take a few decades to achieve. What do we do in the meantime?
       • Belladonna 7.1.1.1

         2 July 2023 at 12:32 pm

         The burden of evaluation for quality, content and age-appropriateness – falls on the school librarians.

         Which means that the review process has to be repeated multiple times for each individual school – and requires a reasonable degree of knowledge, skill and experience in this evaluation. This is specifically covered in librarianship qualifications – but many schools are not willing to pay for this expertise (teachers have a completely different set of qualifications and expertise).

         Practically, doing anything about it at a school level would require significant infrastructural change. Something like the National Library Schools Service selecting on behalf of schools across the whole country. There are pros and cons to this level of centralization (that's a whole different debate). Or specific levels of minimum funding and professional staffing for school libraries.

         I honestly don't see any significant support for either option, in any political party – or as a ground swell across NZ.

         There is nothing in the way of a national review service which would filter this kind of material out of public or school libraries. The closest would be the Censor – and they only act to review titles, when specifically requested to (usually on the grounds of age-appropriateness). I'm sure many will remember the furore when the teen novel "Into the river" by Ted Dawe was age-restricted by the Censor (before the rating was reviewed, and removed, 2 years later)

         https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Into_the_River

         Quite frankly, I find the ability of many people to differentiate between truth and falsehood (at any age) is fairly limited. And the plethora of on-line sites supporting any possible interpretation of 'the facts' is well beyond controlling. I don't think that any amount of education is going to change people's desire to believe what fits comfortably with their world-view.

         The most effective strategy is for this kind of media coverage; complemented by the distribution network being alerted to supply online content warning labels. (something like: "Controversial content")

         Which is why it's particularly important that school library collections (both print and e-resources) are well-curated to ensure that they effectively support the curriculum. Schools, unfortunately, are much less enthusiastic about spending the money that this requires.
         • bwaghorn 7.1.1.1.1

           2 July 2023 at 12:49 pm

           "Which means that the review process has to be repeated multiple times for each individual school –

           Might be a good idea if all school books are vetted by ministry of education, a 1 stop shop .(that'll get the loons agitated)
           • Belladonna 7.1.1.1.1.1

             2 July 2023 at 12:56 pm

             TBH the MoE wouldn't have the expertise — if you want a centralized agency to do this, then the National Library Schools Service is a much better option. This is basically their bread and butter (i.e. they already have professional librarians selecting and purchasing books for bulk loans to schools).
8. Phillip ure 8

   2 July 2023 at 12:26 pm

   The greens have released a decent housing policy package..

   Rental warrents..and so much more..

   I hafta say the greens haven't put a foot wrong in their policy releases to date..

   Especially when compared/contrasted with the incoherent drivel the tories have disrespected us with..

   Much of it reading like it was written on a napkin..at the tail end of a tory pissup..
   • bwaghorn 8.1

     2 July 2023 at 12:52 pm

     I think an Rental warrant is a no brainer, (rural workers houses to please) any other business that provides a structure or vehicle for financial gain has codes, (thinking restaurants,work sites , bus ,shipping)
     • tWiggle 8.1.1

       2 July 2023 at 6:08 pm

       Too much of this stuff is left for self-reporting, or to property managers, ie, often lies. Give healthy home registration to local bodies to administer, as well as doing airbnb licencing. Let councils clip the inspection fee ticket, like food service places. Currently there's really no easy way for councils to know how many short and longterm rentals on their patch.
9. RP Mcmurphy 9

   2 July 2023 at 1:05 pm

   who saw the two ugly sisters mulch and lynch harassing Chippy on the teev in China about a nationals put up job that supposedly happened two years ago. This country is really on the wonk if this sort of stuff is allowed to go unchecked. Everybody write to TV1 and TV3 ad tell the what you think about this sort of egregious beahviour from two overfed nationals party operatives spreading their ordure all over the media
   • bwaghorn 9.1

     2 July 2023 at 1:19 pm

     Jenna Lynchs coverage from China was the most pathetic cringe inducing garbage I've witnessed in a while, just a grandstanding idiot,
     • tWiggle 9.1.1

       2 July 2023 at 2:53 pm

       With an ACT party fiance.
       • ianmac 9.1.1.1

         2 July 2023 at 3:28 pm

         "With an ACT party fiancee" and big finance to match.
         • Peter Kelly 9.1.1.1.1

           2 July 2023 at 6:44 pm

           We expect/require politicians to declare and stand aside when there is a conflict of interests; surely the same rules should apply to journalists and reporters.
       • bwaghorn 9.1.1.2

         2 July 2023 at 4:18 pm

         Really?
         • joe90 9.1.1.2.1

           2 July 2023 at 5:28 pm

           Her bloke is Seymour's chief of staff.
           • tWiggle 9.1.1.2.1.1

             2 July 2023 at 5:56 pm

             Father of her 2022 newborn.
   • adam 9.2

     2 July 2023 at 9:48 pm

     So TV 3 is in pure ratfucking mode.

     What a sad sorry state NZ journalism is in when the partner of political party operative, can produce low down cringe worthy propaganda on a national broadcaster.

     Time to strip tv3 of it’s license with this level of shitfuckery.
10. Shanreagh 10

    2 July 2023 at 2:36 pm

    Transgender men are capable of bearing children because they are females.

    Just shows how far the wool has been pulled over unsuspecting or well intentioned eyes.

    Trans men are women ie they are women ie they carry the baby

    Trans women are men ie they impregnate the women who carry the baby

    For short and clarity I just call them men and women, dropping the trans.

    Of course if I was in the company of a person who identified as other than their sex I would be polite and use the names they wish me to use.

    But I am not particpating in the general snow job that is around at the moment.

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
    
    • weka 10.1

      2 July 2023 at 6:32 pm

      please stay on topic for this post, thanks.
11. Darien Fenton 11

    2 July 2023 at 2:59 pm

    I thought about commenting, but decided I won't. It's not safe.

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
    
    • Anker 11.1

      2 July 2023 at 5:07 pm

      I am surprized you feel this way Darien "It's not safe". You who have been a firece advocate for lower wage earners, mostly women (and for that I admire and respect you). You must of had to confront the most disgusting psychopathic boses in you time and speak up for the workers you represent. Same for you time in parliament which is often described as a robust place.

      The Standard is a robust place too, but we do have moderators to step in when people are out of line. I cop a fair bit of flack on this site for my views. Well that's how it rolls. and I believe the old saying sticks and stones will break my bones, but names will never hurt me.

      Of cause this "safe" issue is often pulled out by the trans rights activists i.e that things that people like KJK say make some people feel unsafe. But of course we all got to see who is really unsafe in Albert Park in March of this year. Turns out it wasn't the Rainbow crowd and their allies. It was a bunch of women, many older, lesbians who were kicked, pushed to the ground, punched in the face, hit with placcards, spat at and had tomato soup thrown over them. Many of them including a pregnant woman had to be rescued from the braying mob (an impartitial photographer who took pics at black lives matter and many other protests said it was the first time he had to put his camera away and assit people to safety during a protest. Oh and his camera was broken)
      • weka 11.1.1

        2 July 2023 at 6:39 pm

        The Standard hasn't been a good place for women ever as far as I'm concerned. Which is why we have had so many women authors and commenters leave. Safety has become even more of an issue with the gender/sex wars, which is why many of us use a pseudonym. Women have lost jobs, careers, social networks over this. Safety isn't just about freedom from immediate physical violence.
        • Sabine 11.1.1.1

          3 July 2023 at 3:07 pm

          And yet, there is no safety in not speaking ones mind.
          • weka 11.1.1.1.1

            3 July 2023 at 3:20 pm

            true. Different kinds of safety I think. It's easier for some people to use their RL names to speak than others. Some people's jobs and careers are at risk.
            • Sabine 11.1.1.1.1.1

              10 July 2023 at 10:23 am

              Even that is just pretend safety, everyone can be found out quite quickly online. In fact i would almost state now that using ones own name is safer as you can better defend yourself if someone makes silly threats. And i have gotten my fair share of silly 'we know where you live' threats. Usually the answer is 'come git me' 🙂 cause in the end if someone want to hurt you they will. And if they do come, i will eat their faces. Unseasoned.
    • Molly 11.2

      2 July 2023 at 5:40 pm

      Yet here you are.

      What is it you wanted to say? The only possibility to fear is disagreement.
    • Psycho Milt 11.3

      2 July 2023 at 6:29 pm

      The word "safe" is another one that seems to have lost all meaning.
      • Sabine 11.3.1

        3 July 2023 at 11:35 am

        Being challenged or being told NO is inherently unsafe for those who expect people to march in unison.
12. Cinder 12

    2 July 2023 at 3:04 pm

    It flies in the face of observable scientific fact.

    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19155947/

    "Background: There are 11 reported cases of pregnancy in true hermaphrodites, but none with advanced genetic testing. All known fetuses have been male."

    Note that this is NOT a world wide study and is, as usual with medicine, focused on the Global north.

    These people exist, are defined as intersex by medical professionals, themselves and, perhaps most importantly, the GC crowd who would not view them as women.

    I posted this on The Standard last year and got a lot of absurd responses including being accused of trying to erase the word mother. So I won't be taking this any further other than to say "Facts don't care about your feelings".

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
    
    • weka 12.1

      2 July 2023 at 3:25 pm

      I can't find the full paper so it's hard to discuss what is happening there and how science meets politics. But, people with differences of sexual development are people with biological issues. That's completely different from gender identity.

      But let's say that the people in the paper are maybe ten times the number cited, so 110 people. Are you suggesting that the word mother should be used to include males, because of 110 people with a DSD condition? And if that is what you are suggesting, what is the word for female people that bear and raise children?
    • Sabine 12.2

      3 July 2023 at 8:56 am

      Background: There are 11 reported cases of pregnancy in true hermaphrodites, but none with advanced genetic testing. All known fetuses have been male.

      Case: A true hermaphrodite with a spontaneous pregnancy prenatally known to have a remaining portion of a right ovotestis, delivered a male neonate. The mother has a 46, XX karyotype with polymerase chain reaction demonstrating low levels of the Yq12 sequence. Postpartum androgen levels were normal.

      Conclusion: Partial removal of testicular tissue may enhance fertility in hermaphrodites, and there may be a genetic basis for the progeny to be male.

      from your link.

      46,XX DSD.

      A 46,XX karyotype in a newborn with ambiguous genitalia indicates that the child is a genetic female who was exposed to excessive amounts of androgens during fetal life.

      https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/medicine-and-dentistry/karyotype-46-xx#:~:text=Steroid%20Disorders%2C%202014-,46%2CXX%20DSD,of%20androgens%20during%20fetal%20life.

      Women, females, have been birthing every human being since ever, and most certainly all the 8 billion + of people currently alive.
      • weka 12.2.1

        3 July 2023 at 11:12 am

        thanks Sabine! Bookmarking this for next time it comes up.
13. Joe90 13

    2 July 2023 at 4:13 pm

    Charming. Russian state media celebrates a missile strike on a Ukrainian community that killed 12 civilians, including 14-year-old twin sisters.

    /

    Giorgi Revishvili

    @revishvilig

    "Listen, this strike on Kramatorsk is just chic! I take my hat off to whoever planned it and who carried it out. The song is simple! Just a song! My old military heart rejoices,” Russian General Andrei Kartapolov rejoices on Solovyov’s air.

    https://twitter.com/revishvilig/status/1674828349150052355
    • UncookedSelachimorpha 13.1

      2 July 2023 at 11:33 pm

      Russian-speaking twin sisters, as well.
14. weka 14

    2 July 2023 at 4:24 pm

    Can anyone give a two paragraph summary of what is happening in France right now? Did protestors really set a major library on fire?
    • joe90 14.1

      2 July 2023 at 5:30 pm

      The haves are labeling the have nots vermin and savage hordes, rioting and looting has spread as far as Brussels, rail curfews are in place, rail links to Geneva have been cut, 45k head-crackers have been deployed, >1500 arrests have been made and Macron's trip to Germany has been postponed.

      But the Tour de France will go ahead so I guess all's well.

      /
    • Belladonna 14.2

      2 July 2023 at 6:02 pm

      Reportedly, yes (and the videos seem to show the building on fire)

      Largest public library in Marseille – even though the youth killed was from Paris.

      https://organiser.org/2023/06/30/181438/world/riots-erupted-in-france-amidst-chants-of-allah-hu-akbar-after-police-shot-a-teen-with-a-criminal-record/

      • Policeman shot a teen, driving a high-end car, who failed to stop at a police check, in Nanterre (northwest suburb of Paris, poor area, with a high Muslim population)
      • Policeman has been charged with 'voluntary homicide' (and stood down)
      • Teen had a fairly extensive criminal record (though this is unlikely to have been apparent to the policeman at the time of the incident) – not only police obstruction, but drug offences (so not just being a teen idiot, but actual criminal offences).
      • Family of the teen have not claimed the attack was racially motivated (as far as I know)
      • There has been ongoing simmering tension between French police (who are not at all touchy-feely) and disaffected youths in the housing projects. Long history of youth unemployment, poor quality education, etc. in poor areas in France.
      • Anti-racisim, leftist and radical Muslim groups have claimed it's a racial crime, and encouraged protests and rioting in Paris, which has now spread to towns across France. This is a well-honed tactic in France – so doesn't have the same impact that it would have in NZ, for example.
      • adam 14.2.1

        2 July 2023 at 10:17 pm

        Reading your post was usual anti left bullshit I've come to expect from you, the artcle you posted was even worse.

        Have you seen the video? Your facts are off right from the start, he drove off after being stopped, it was then that they shot him in the back. In the BACK, how fucking brave of the cops. Then they lied about it, if not for the video, this would have been swept under the carpet.

        Killing a kid, a teenager, a fucking child.

        As for the so called crimes, drugs are a health issue and he was never involved in any violent crime. Being charged with ignoring police is like obstruction here, common as fuck and hardly ever held up in court.

        Your and Psycho Milt's casual racism is so common of many on this site now, it's fucking sickening.
        • Belladonna 14.2.1.1

          2 July 2023 at 10:27 pm

          I provided a summary of facts, and linked to an article to support them. If you want to expand on them, or even correct them (with appropriate links) – no one is stopping you.

          Quite frankly, I find the casual assumption that protest violence and rioting is justified – because it's on the 'right' side – much more sickening.

          It's the vandals that burn books – you might think about that.
          • adam 14.2.1.1.1

            2 July 2023 at 10:40 pm

            The protestors didn't shot a kid in the back though.

            As you seem to have forgotten that.

            https://www.drugfoundation.org.nz/news-media-and-events/mental-health-and-addictions-inquiry-says-treat-drugs-as-a-health-issue/

            And sorry I’m not going to link to a cop killing a kid. If you want to see that, google is your friend.
            • Belladonna 14.2.1.1.1.1

              3 July 2023 at 9:41 am

              Family of the shot teen is calling for the riots to stop – the rioters are destroying their own communities.

              "they didn't ask people to break or steal and they weren't honouring his legacy"

              https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-66073728
    • Psycho Milt 14.3

      2 July 2023 at 6:50 pm

      Apparently they smashed the library's windows and shot fireworks inside, but the fire didn't take hold and the library still stands: https://newsinfrance.com/the-alcazar-library-in-marseille-victim-of-an-attempted-fire/.

      That said, we're talking here about adherents of a totalitarian religious ideology who'll cheerfully shout "God is great!" while burning down a library or chopping your head off with a machete, so the fact the library didn't burn down is nothing to thank them for.
15. Shanreagh 15

    2 July 2023 at 4:42 pm

    "Background: There are 11 reported cases of pregnancy in true hermaphrodites, but none with advanced genetic testing. All known fetuses have been male."

    I guess the point is for me that we are not talking here about true hermaphrodites but members of the trans community. It is known that there are hermaphrodite and intersex but I am not sure about the linking of these people to the trans debate.

    Seems a little like trying to say that giraffes are linked to zebras because they live on southern African grasslands. Well they do but………?

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
    
16. Visubversa 16

    2 July 2023 at 5:33 pm

    I am more than happy to accept an arguement that all trans identified people require a diagnosis of a Difference of Sex Development. Easy to do with a chromosome test. Otherwise, you have to accept that these extremely rare medical conditions have nothing to do with gender identity at all.

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
    
17. Hunter Thompson II 17

    2 July 2023 at 6:08 pm

    "He [Simon Power] is effusive about the high-quality journalism being produced by TVNZ, and the Herald." (NZ Herald, 1 July 2023, p C3)

    Not everyone would agree with Simon Power's view.
18. tWiggle 18

    2 July 2023 at 6:13 pm

    'Power held the roles of Minister of Justice, Minister for State Owned Enterprises, Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs and Deputy Leader of the House. He was appointed CEO of TVNZ in 2021 [from Wiki] (and just left a few days ago).

    Bet Labour regret his appointment. And it explains why One news has become useless, as viewed at their website recently. Posting Aussie crime news is 20% of the content there now.
19. weka 19

    3 July 2023 at 12:20 am

    
20. weka 20

    3 July 2023 at 1:05 am

    

• Comments are now closed

• Log in
• Donate
• Contribute post

• Articles RSS