Open mike 02/08/2022

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, August 2nd, 2022 - 99 comments
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99 comments on “Open mike 02/08/2022 ”

  1. Blazer 1

    An interesting critique of the Zelensky narrative (by of all media-a Sky Au journo) that raises some pertinent questions.

    https://youtu.be/KEPWgMXut_8

    • joe90 1.1

      Bernardi isn't a fucking journalist. Bernadi's a RWNJ.

      • tc 1.1.1

        Cory Bernadi is scomo without the rat cunning as scomo knew where his bread was buttered….Cory shat in that bed so murdochville is his new home.

      • Populuxe1 1.1.2

        Sky Australia is the perfect place for him. It's a Murdoch outlet after all.

        • mikesh 1.1.2.1

          Whether he is a RWNJ, or scomo without scomo's rat cunning, is beside the point. As always it's the message that matters, not the messenger.

    • Jenny how to get there 1.2

      Antifa in Ukraine

      Ilya is a Russian anti-fascist anarchist. She fled to Ukraine after a crackdown by the Putin regime on Russian civil society, and has joined the fight against Putin's bloody invasion. Ilya has been joined up with

      ….Putin's invasion is not a war between two states. It’s a war between Putin’s regime and Ukrainian society. In my opinion, the Ukrainian state is corrupt, oligarchic, and neoliberal. I’m not too fond of it. However, Ukrainian society has a lot more freedom and pluralism than its Russian and Belarusian counterparts – than almost all of its neighbors. Turkey is no better than Putin’s Russia, while Poland and Hungary have swayed considerably towards conservatism lately. The Ukrainian state exerts considerably less control over its citizens’ private lives. Since Russia decided to export its authoritarian Mordor-style regime, Ukrainian society needs protection."

      Ilya

      https://theins.ru/en/politics/251492?

  2. logie97 2

    A lot is being made of the Cost of Living Payment going to an unknown number of NZers overseas. Perhaps they should see it as the government just giving them back some of the tax they reckon they deserve to receive. After all, they'll get sod all of any tax cuts Luxon is promising.

  3. Visubversa 3

    The BNZ seems to be doing a big panic over tax residency status as a result of all this. I have never had a tax residency in other than New Zealand since I opened my account in 1973, but I got a "please update" email yesterday.

    • Graeme 3.1

      BNZ has been having kittens about tax residency and anti money laundering for about 6 months. It's taken a couple of days out of our lives filling in inane forms and proving our identities, all for it to not be loaded correctly by staff who haven't a clue what it's about and then having to be done again.

      AML (anti money laundering) has been a thing for 10 years or so but gather this round has been brought on by Ukraine war and ensuing sanctions

    • Matiri 3.2

      Rabo has been doing the same thing over the past few months.

    • Puckish Rogue 4.1

      Unfortunately management and head office are s**t scared of bad publicity…well when that publicity is right out in the open

      You'd think they best way to deal with something like this is to spray the prisoners with water and then let the cold weather take its course

      The problem is whenever this is suggested the reply is always something along the lines of H&S, its too dangerous because they may slip off the roof etc etc

      So instead 'negotiation' is used to bring the prisoners down, never mind how many tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of damages has been done

      Good times

      • Jimmy 4.1.1

        Mind you Trevor Mallard tried the sprinkler approach and that didn't work out too well! Best to just leave them up there, they will come down when they get hungry.

        I always have a bit of a giggle about these prisoners that go on hunger strike……it's only ever going to end one of two ways, either they quit and decide to eat again (which means they are not that dedicated to whatever cause they were striking for), or guards carry out their lifeless bodies once they have passed away.

        • Mac1 4.1.1.1

          They're all down now. The reasons why they did the overnight on the roof are not yet public.

          • Puckish Rogue 4.1.1.1.1

            Probably a number of factors including, but not limited to:

            boredom, being manipulated, genuine issues that aren't being addressed, imagined issues that aren't being addressed, just being dick heads, wanting to be transferred, not wanting to be transferred, over inflated sense of importance, diagnosed mental health issues, undiagnosed mental health issues, making a name for themselves, not getting enough visits, not getting skype calling etc etc

            Or something else entirely

            • Mac1 4.1.1.1.1.1

              I think you may have just covered it, apart from the guys who just went along with the others for the ride……

          • Foreign Waka 4.1.1.1.2

            The did not get access to the sports facility by what the news explained at 6pm. Yep, that's right they are in prison for a crime not on recreational grounds. Also in the news a soft knew reaction regarding the ramrads. Something got to give, it is just a matter of time.

            • Puckish Rogue 4.1.1.1.2.1

              'The did not get access to the sports facility by what the news explained at 6pm.'

              I don't know with 100% certainty (being that I'm not in the Hawkes Bay) but if its like anywhere else the reason the crims didn't get to go out to the sports field is most likely due to short staffing

              The staffing levels in NZ prisons are dangerously low everywhere, emails have again been put out for anyone wanting to go onto secondments to other prisons

              There are always call backs available in Canterbury and its even worse in the North Island, as an idea check out the the job listings:

              https://mahi.corrections.govt.nz/jobtools/jncustomsearch.searchResults?in_organid=19420&in_jobDate=All

              About the only prison that doesn't have a listing is Invercargill, although strangely none in Canterbury are listed either

              Because we're running short we simply don't have the officers to run things over and above minimum entitlements

        • Drowsy M. Kram 4.1.1.2

          I always have a bit of a giggle about these prisoners that go on hunger strike……
          or guards carry out their lifeless bodies once they have passed away.

          What a hoot. /s

          • Jimmy 4.1.1.2.1

            You have to remember a lot of these people in there are in for very violent offences and are locked up to protect the public, so if they do decide to go on a hunger strike or do crazy stunts like this, and a few don't make it, is society better off or worse off?

            • Drowsy M. Kram 4.1.1.2.1.1

              I realise it's a bit of a giggle to you, but how many humans dying in custody would it take for you to consider the possibility that society was worse off?

              https://www.nzhowardleague.org.nz/

              • Puckish Rogue

                Considering my last shift was in Kia Marama I could name at least 60 people whose deaths would make NZ a much better, safer, place

                • Jimmy

                  That must have been an eye opening experience working there. I hope you have not been too scarred by the experience. I can only imagine some of the 'people' you have had the unfortunate dis-pleasure to meet.

                  • Puckish Rogue

                    The thing is KM and Totara are really easy units to work in, you're at less physical danger

                    The flip side is you talk to people who do things you cant even begin to comprehend or imagine and they think its perfectly acceptable

                    This is one of the few times I won't give examples of what I'm talking about

                    The best thing you can do is not read their sentencing notes or their journals

                • Drowsy M. Kram

                  So at least 60 people, in your opinion – might you pause at 60, or carry on?

                  • Puckish Rogue

                    What is your point?

                    That you're a better, more moral person than I am?

                    That I'm borderline evil, sociopathic maybe?

                    • Drowsy M. Kram

                      What is your point?

                      That you're a better, more moral person than I am?

                      I don't know you Pucky, only what you write here. I’m disinclined to attribute behavioural traits to you on that basis alone – doesn’t stop some people though.

                      For the record, I’m opposed to capital punishment. It’s possible that could change, given the ‘right‘ circumstances, but I’d hope not.

                    • Puckish Rogue

                      I'm quite ok with people on here to judge me and you by our words on this subject

                    • Drowsy M. Kram

                      I'm way too woke to be comfortable with the idea of 60+ deaths at one unit in one prison – might it raise questions about competence?

                      https://www.corrections.govt.nz/resources/statistics/deaths_in_custody

                      That number of deaths would, however, represent a considerable saving to the tax payer, and some might find it a atisfying outcome.

                    • Puckish Rogue

                      Shame you can't ask the families of the victims what they think but if 60 child sex offenders suddenly died in custody I'd think its a good start

                      I know what your next question is going to be and the answer is yes I would be willing to carry out the executions myself, if the death penalty was reinstated

                    • Drowsy M. Kram

                      Hang 'em high eh Pucky? So simple – and you'd be a hero. Makes you wonder why the death penalty was abolished in the first place – all those ambitions, thwarted – imagine the ‘fun’ you could have had with Peter Ellis.

                      Innocent people are too often sentenced to death. Since 1973, over 156 people have been released from death rows in 26 states because of innocence. Nationally, at least one person is exonerated for every 10 that are executed.
                      https://www.aclu.org/other/case-against-death-penalty

                      THE MISSION OF THE NATIONAL REGISTRY OF EXONERATIONS is to provide comprehensive information on exonerations of innocent criminal defendants in order to prevent future false convictions by learning from past errors.
                      https://www.law.umich.edu/special/exoneration/Pages/ExonerationsContribFactorsByCrime.aspx

                    • Puckish Rogue []

                      You do know that one of the ways to get into treatment at KM is you have to admit your guilt

                      I'll also note that the Corrections Officers who were in the trial all thought Peter Ellis was innocent

                    • Drowsy M. Kram

                      You do know that false confessions occur in some child sex abuse crimes, albeit relatively rarely.

                      I’ll also note that if indeed “the Corrections Officers who were in the trial all thought Peter Ellis was innocent“, that didn’t do Ellis much good.

                      Since you touted the benefits of executing at least 60 imprisoned Kiwis, and mentioned being prepared to carry out the executions personally, are you also in favour of reinstating the death penalty?

                      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_by_country

                      Imho such a change would be regressive and out of step with many other democratic jurisdictions.

                    • Puckish Rogue

                      'You do know that false confessions occur in some child sex abuse crimes, albeit relatively rarely.'

                      I’ll also note that if indeed “the Corrections Officers who were in the trial all thought Peter Ellis was innocent“, that didn’t do Ellis much good.

                      – Again you are wrong. He had a much better time of it in prison than he otherwise would have.

                      Since you touted the benefits of executing at least 60 imprisoned Kiwis, and mentioned being prepared to carry out the executions personally, are you also in favour of reinstating the death penalty?

                      – Well obviously

                      Imho such a change would be regressive and out of step with many other democratic jurisdictions.

                      – My first consideration is to keep babies and children safe from paedophiles, shame you think paedos should be protected

                      – Says a lot about you

                    • Drowsy M. Kram

                      If you are suggesting that I think paedos should be protected from people who would 'execute' (murder) them, then yes – rule of law and all that. Your approach is too 'Top Gun' and Gung Ho! for my liking.

                      Just to be clear, if we followed the approach you are advocating, then NZ would reinstate the death penalty (removed from our statute books in 1961, except for the crime of treason which was repealed in 1989) and promptly execute at least 60 Kiwis? For starters?

                      https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/nz-behind-un-resolution-abolish-death-penalty

                    • Puckish Rogue

                      'If you are suggesting that I think paedos should be protected from people who would 'execute' (murder) them, then yes – rule of law and all that.'

                      – Just to be clear paedos cannot change, the best you can hope for is that they decide to be celibate and thats it

                      – The price you're willing to pay for the protection of paedos is that a baby or child will be abused

                      https://www.corrections.govt.nz/resources/research/reconviction_rates_of_sex_offenders

                      https://smart.ojp.gov/somapi/chapter-5-adult-sex-offender-recidivism

                      'Your alternative approach is too 'Top Gun' and Gung Ho! for my liking.'

                      – Maverick actually broke a number of laws, I'm advocating a course of action that could only happen after a change in the law, maybe you should try watching the movie

                      'Just to be clear, if NZ followed the approach you are advocating, then we would reinstate the death penalty (removed from our statute books in 1961, except for the crime of treason which was repealed in 1989) and promptly execute at least 60 Kiwis – for starters?'

                      – No you're not clear, they've been sentenced so no I wouldn't advocate for the death penalty for people that've already been sentenced (of course if new charges were to come to light that would certainly be different)

                      – Next time they commit the crime though

                    • Drowsy M. Kram

                      – Just to be clear paedos cannot change, the best you can hope for is that they decide to be celibate and thats it

                      Hmm – "paedos cannot change", and "they can decide to be celibate". Seems a tad contradictory to me, but you're the sexpert.

                      From your first link:

                      The re-imprisonment rate of adult sex offenders (35%) was twice that of child sex offenders (17%).

                      Pleased you “wouldn’t advocate for the death penalty for people that’ve already been sentenced” – let’s hope no new charges come to light.

                      Shame you can’t ask the families of the victims what they think but if 60 child sex offenders suddenly died in custody I’d think its a good start

                      I know what your next question is going to be and the answer is yes I would be willing to carry out the executions myself, if the death penalty was reinstated

                      Your ‘just getting started’ attitude frightens me.

                    • Puckish Rogue

                      'Hmm – "paedos cannot change", and "they can decide to be celibate". Seems a tad contradictory to me, but you're the sexpert.'

                      • I am compared to you. They cannot change their sexual attraction to babies and children, the best you can hope for is they decide to be celibate.
                      1. a person who abstains from marriage and sexual relations.

                        "he's attracted to women babies and children and yet he lives as a celibate”

                      'let’s both hope no new charges come to light.'

                      • No. Lets hope that the paedos you want to protect don't rape more babies or children in the future when they're released.
                    • Drowsy M. Kram
                      • No. Lets hope that the paedos you want to protect don't rape more babies or children in the future when they're released.

                      >80% don't – who protects them from your itchy execution finger?

                      I know what your next question is going to be and the answer is yes I would be willing to carry out the executions myself, if the death penalty was reinstated

                    • Puckish Rogue []

                      So 20% do, you going to go along to the victims and their families and explain to them why you think its acceptable for this to happen?

                    • Drowsy M. Kram

                      …why you think its acceptable for this to happen?

                      Implying my opposition to your advocacy for the death penalty means that I think child sexual abuse is acceptable is pathetic – for the record (again), I think that child sexual abuse is unacceptable.

                      Sign this petition if it makes you feel better, but what you're advocating wouldn't fly even in the US ('Top Gun' reference!)

                      The death penalty: The past and uncertain future of executions in America

                      https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/facts-and-research/crimes-punishable-by-death/death-penalty-for-offenses-other-than-murder

                      Kennedy v. Louisiana Resource Page
                      When the law punishes by death, it risks its own sudden descent into brutality, transgressing the constitutional commitment to decency and restraint.

                      You could relocate to the likes of Bangladesh, India, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Iran, China, Saudi Arabia, UAE or China to exercise you itchy execution finger – a move I for one would be comfortable with, if the (imho) extremist views you've expressed in this thread are more than shock jock bravado.

                      I know what your next question is going to be and the answer is yes I would be willing to carry out the executions myself, if the death penalty was reinstated

                      Profiling Child Molesters: Thematic Differentiation of Crime Scene
                      Indicators and Correlations to PsychopathologyIndicators and Correlations to Psychopathology
                      [2021]

                    • Puckish Rogue

                      ' for the record (again), I think that child sexual abuse is unacceptable.'

                      • Whatever lies you want to tell yourself is your business but as the link you provided stated that 20% (I think it'll be more eventually) will reoffend and you're ok with that

                      You can sit there and think how much better you are, how much more of a moral person you are but know that the cost of what you believe are sexually abused children

                      Deal with it.

                    • Drowsy M. Kram
                      • Whatever lies you want to tell yourself is your business but as the link you provided stated that 20% (I think it'll be more eventually) will reoffend and you're ok with that

                      This "you're ok with that" lie of yours speaks to you character and becomes more pathetic with every repetition. It's clear evidence of the ease with which you lie and smear – deal with it.

                      I oppose the death penalty for any crime, including murder. Your hypothetical solution, i.e. the execution at least 60 Kiwis (for starters), is unethical and (thankfully) illegal. That there is not even a hint of reluctance to perform those executions yourself tells me all I need (or want) to know about you.

                      Considering my last shift was in Kia Marama I could name at least 60 people whose deaths would make NZ a much better, safer, place

                      Shame you can’t ask the families of the victims what they think but if 60 child sex offenders suddenly died in custody I’d think its a good start

                      I know what your next question is going to be and the answer is yes I would be willing to carry out the executions myself, if the death penalty was reinstated

                    • Puckish Rogue

                      'That there is not even a hint of reluctance to perform those executions yourself tells me all I need (or want) to know about you.'

                      – In my opinion if you want executions brought back you should willing to carry it out yourself not put it off onto someone else

                      – So tell me how many babies and children would it take to be raped to make you change your mind on this or is your mind made up?

                    • Drowsy M. Kram

                      My support for NZ law – killing by the State, or anyone, is illegal – won't change.

                      If (in your mind) that means I'm OK with the sexual abuse of children, then there really is no basis for further dialogue. You seem to be flogging a dead horse.

                      https://nzhistory.govt.nz/flogging-whipping-abolished

                    • Puckish Rogue

                      Considering you put paedos ahead of little kids tells me all I need to know about you and your priorities

                    • Drowsy M. Kram

                      Considering you put paedos ahead of little kids…

                      Are lies and smears all you’ve got?
                      You’re really giving this dead horse of yours a pounding – pathetic x3.

                    • Puckish Rogue []

                      Maybe you need to get off your moral high horse and understand exactly what your beliefs lead to

                      Ever thought of becoming a CO and spending time with the people you so piously defend?

                      Naah you probably think that's beneath you, much easier to criticise those who do it rather than roll up your sleeves and try to help at the coalface

                    • Drowsy M. Kram

                      Maybe you need to get off your moral high horse and understand exactly what your beliefs lead to

                      My belief is that current NZ law constraining you from executing Kiwis is sound. "New Zealand’s last execution occurred fifty [65] years ago, in 1957. Capital punishment was removed from our statute books in 1961 [National Govt, under Holyoake]" – maybe you need to understand why the reintroduction of the death penalty, that you appear to be gagging for, would be regressive.

                      Naah you probably think that's beneath you, much easier to criticise those who do it rather than roll up your sleeves and try to help at the coalface

                      I'm critiquing these (imho unhelpful) comments made by a fellow public servant on this site.

                      Considering my last shift was in Kia Marama I could name at least 60 people whose deaths would make NZ a much better, safer, place [2 Augist @4:32 pm]

                      Shame you can’t ask the families of the victims what they think but if 60 child sex offenders suddenly died in custody I’d think its a good start

                      I know what your next question is going to be and the answer is yes I would be willing to carry out the executions myself, if the death penalty was reinstated

                      "I'm quite ok with people on here to judge me and you by our words on this subject" – roll up your sleeves and deal with it.

                    • Puckish Rogue

                      "I'm quite ok with people on here to judge me and you by our words on this subject" – roll up your sleeves and deal with it."

                      I want paedoes executed, you want to protect paedoes.

                      I don't mind everyone knowing how I feel about this subject, are you?

                    • Drowsy M. Kram

                      I want paedoes executed, you want to protect paedoes.

                      You want at least 60 paedos executed (for starters), and would carry out the executions yourself.

                      In NZ, the death penalty was abolished before you were born – imho your advocacy for capital punishment is regressive.

                      I believe your proposed 'solution' to the evil that is child sexual abuse is itself evil ("That I'm borderline evil, sociopathic maybe?" – 2 August @9:14 pm) – that's not going to change, and so our ideas on how best to decrease the incidence of child sexual abuse are irreconcilable.

                      On at least one thing we do agree – "I'm quite ok with people on here to judge me and you by our words on this subject", and will continue to remind readers here of your words.

                      Considering my last shift was in Kia Marama I could name at least 60 people whose deaths would make NZ a much better, safer, place

                      Shame you can’t ask the families of the victims what they think but if 60 child sex offenders suddenly died in custody I’d think its a good start

                      I know what your next question is going to be and the answer is yes I would be willing to carry out the executions myself, if the death penalty was reinstated

                      Btw, did you get the Tom Cruise reference in my previous comment – a bit oblique maybe.

                    • Puckish Rogue

                      So do it then.

                      Put a new post up explaining how you want to protect paedos, explain how at least 20% (and thats low in my opinion) will reoffend, explain what reoffend means and then post my solution to paedos

                    • Drowsy M. Kram

                      you want to protect paedos

                      I believe in the rule of NZ law that protects all Kiwis from execution by the State – you don’t. Apart from paedos, are there perhaps other groups you might consider adding to your fantasy execution list?

                      Considering my last shift was in Kia Marama I could name at least 60 people whose deaths would make NZ a much better, safer, place

                      Shame you can’t ask the families of the victims what they think but if 60 child sex offenders suddenly died in custody I’d think its a good start

                      I know what your next question is going to be and the answer is yes I would be willing to carry out the executions myself, if the death penalty was reinstated

                      Female perpetrators of child sexual abuse: A review of the clinical and empirical literature – A 20-year update [January 2022]
                      https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1359178921001415

                    • Puckish Rogue

                      Put a new post up explaining how you want to protect paedos, explain how at least 20% (and thats low in my opinion) will reoffend, explain what reoffend means and then post my solution to paedos

                    • Drowsy M. Kram

                      Put a new post up explaining how you want to protect paedos…

                      Won't respond to your demand unless you can provide a quote that shows I think child sexual abuse is acceptable. No weasily inferences or deductions on your part – just a direct quote.

                      I don't need to protect paedos from execution by you – NZ law protects them. A professional, rational CO would understand why that is. Imho your comments in this thread are a disgrace.

                      Considering my last shift was in Kia Marama I could name at least 60 people whose deaths would make NZ a much better, safer, place

                      Shame you can’t ask the families of the victims what they think but if 60 child sex offenders suddenly died in custody I’d think its a good start

                      I know what your next question is going to be and the answer is yes I would be willing to carry out the executions myself, if the death penalty was reinstated

                    • Puckish Rogue

                      Put a new post up explaining how you want to protect paedos, explain how at least 20% (and thats low in my opinion) will reoffend, explain what reoffend means and then post my solution to paedos.

                    • Drowsy M. Kram

                      Won't respond to your demand unless you can provide a quote that shows I think child sexual abuse is acceptable. No weasily inferences or deductions on your part – just a direct quote.

                      Imho your comments in this thread are a disgrace – over to you.

                      Considering my last shift was in Kia Marama I could name at least 60 people whose deaths would make NZ a much better, safer, place

                      Shame you can’t ask the families of the victims what they think but if 60 child sex offenders suddenly died in custody I’d think its a good start

                      I know what your next question is going to be and the answer is yes I would be willing to carry out the executions myself, if the death penalty was reinstated

                    • Puckish Rogue

                      Put a new post up explaining how you want to protect paedos, explain how at least 20% (and thats low in my opinion) will reoffend, explain what reoffend means and then post my solution to paedos.

                      You won't post because you know people on here will side with me (a known conservative) more than you

                    • Drowsy M. Kram

                      You won’t post because you know people on here will side with me (a known conservative) more than you

                      Maybe most people reading this would be happy if (at least) 60 child sex offenders "suddenly died in custody" (“a good start“), but it seems like a slippery slope. If you can't see that then fine, and under NZ law it's a moot point anyway – no rational CO is going to risk facing multiple homicide charges just to exercise an itchy execution finger.

                      Considering my last shift was in Kia Marama I could name at least 60 people whose deaths would make NZ a much better, safer, place

                      Shame you can’t ask the families of the victims what they think but if 60 child sex offenders suddenly died in custody I’d think its a good start

                      I know what your next question is going to be and the answer is yes I would be willing to carry out the executions myself, if the death penalty was reinstated

                    • Puckish Rogue

                      Too gutless to make a post and (correct me if I'm wrong) certainly too gutless to put on a uniform and deal with these people face to face

                      What use are you?

                    • Drowsy M. Kram

                      I'm critiquing these (imho) disgraceful comments; it’s not personal.

                      Considering my last shift was in Kia Marama I could name at least 60 people whose deaths would make NZ a much better, safer, place

                      Shame you can’t ask the families of the victims what they think but if 60 child sex offenders suddenly died in custody I’d think its a good start

                      I know what your next question is going to be and the answer is yes I would be willing to carry out the executions myself, if the death penalty was reinstated

                    • Puckish Rogue

                      You made it personal:

                      'Hang 'em high eh Pucky? So simple – and you'd be a hero. Makes you wonder why the death penalty was abolished in the first place – all those ambitions, thwarted – imagine the ‘fun’ you could have had with Peter Ellis.'

                      You won't even create a post because you know you'll lose, you who won't even put a uniform to see what prison is really like yet you'll happily 'critique' those who do

                    • Drowsy M. Kram

                      Why did the NZ Parliament abolish the death penalty?
                      Here's (one reason) why.

                      Considering my last shift was in Kia Marama I could name at least 60 people whose deaths would make NZ a much better, safer, place

                      Shame you can’t ask the families of the victims what they think but if 60 child sex offenders suddenly died in custody I’d think its a good start

                      I know what your next question is going to be and the answer is yes I would be willing to carry out the executions myself, if the death penalty was reinstated

                      I’m sure you’re a winner in your own mind, but this one was ‘lost’ before you were born – deal with it.

                      New Zealand’s last execution occurred fifty [65] years ago, in 1957. Capital punishment was removed from our statute books in 1961 [National Govt, under Holyoake]”

                    • Puckish Rogue

                      Well done, you support something that happened over 60 years ago and won't ever come back, so stunning and brave of you to make this stand

                    • Drowsy M. Kram

                      Thanks PR, in the same vein your advocacy for mass executions is stunning and brave – what you are proposing would certainly be a first in NZ.

                      Considering my last shift was in Kia Marama I could name at least 60 people whose deaths would make NZ a much better, safer, place

                      Shame you can’t ask the families of the victims what they think but if 60 child sex offenders suddenly died in custody I’d think its a good start

                      I know what your next question is going to be and the answer is yes I would be willing to carry out the executions myself, if the death penalty was reinstated

                      The child sex offender ‘treatment’ you are proposing is, however, illegalplease select a different treatment.

                      DOES SEX OFFENDER TREATMENT FOR ADULTS REDUCE REOFFENDING?
                      New Zealand evidence
                      Studies have found that child sex offender treatment for adults in New Zealand is effective.
                      Three separate studies have assessed the child sex offender treatment programme provided by Corrections in its special treatment units at Rolleston and Auckland Prisons. The researchers found that child sex offenders who completed the programme, were significantly less likely to be charged or reconvicted for a sexual offence than untreated child sex offenders.
                      https://www.justice.govt.nz/assets/Documents/Publications/Sex-Offender-Treatment-for-Adults.pdf. [Sept 2016]

                      Treatment Interventions for Perpetrators of Sexual Violence

                    • Incognito []

                      The research could quite possibly do with an update, but the message seems clear enough:

                      “The evaluation shows that participants who completed the community-based programmes had a 5.2 percent recidivism rate, compared against the recidivism rate for untreated child sex offenders of between 16 to 21 percent,” says Jared Mullen, General Manager Policy Development.

                      The community-based programmes are funded by a number of agencies, including Corrections, Child, Youth and Family, and other community funding sources.

                      “It’s reassuring to know that effective programmes for this type of offending are available and being delivered in New Zealand, both in prison and in the community,” says Jared.

                      “However, we should remember that there’s no such thing as a cure for sex offending – no matter how good a therapeutic programme is, some participants will re-offend at some stage. All programme graduates need to maintain life-long vigilance against slipping back into old patterns.”

                      In New Zealand, treatment options for child sex offenders fall into three main groups: prison-based sex offender treatment units (such as Kia Marama at Rolleston Prison and Te Piriti at Auckland Prison), community provider programmes, and individual intervention through a psychologist.

                      The prison-based programmes have consistently evaluated well, with a 2002 Canadian review 1 of sex offender programmes putting Kia Marama alongside the most effective treatment programmes available internationally, on the basis of Kia Marama’s evaluation document, And There Was Light.

                      https://www.corrections.govt.nz/resources/research/child-sex-offender-treatment

                    • Drowsy M. Kram

                      Thanks Incognito (@11:19 am) – I have next-to-no experience in this area, but imho the idea of initiating mass executions in NZ is extremely regressive, and to advocate for same is disgraceful.

                    • Puckish Rogue

                      'but imho the idea of initiating mass executions in NZ is extremely regressive, and to advocate for same is disgraceful.'

                      Advocating (legal) executions for paedophiles is, to me, less abhorrent than advocating for a system that you know will mean children and babies get raped

                    • Drowsy M. Kram

                      Advocating (legal) executions for paedophiles is, to me, less abhorrent than advocating for a system that you know will mean children and babies get raped

                      Yes, we agree that advocating for (unprecedented) mass executions and advocating for child rape are both abhorrent (disgusting and repugnant); not going to quibble about the lesser of two evils.

                      But it seems unlikely (to me) that the Government-funded system currently affording you employment as a CO is deliberately facilitating child sexual abuse – if I genuinely believed I was working for such a system, then I would quit – you know, get some guts and all that.

                      Would also quit if I was working for a system when it deliberately initiated mass executions ("a good start") – it's just personal principle.

                      Considering my last shift was in Kia Marama I could name at least 60 people whose deaths would make NZ a much better, safer, place

                      Shame you can’t ask the families of the victims what they think but if 60 child sex offenders suddenly died in custody I’d think its a good start

                      I know what your next question is going to be and the answer is yes I would be willing to carry out the executions myself, if the death penalty was reinstated

                    • Puckish Rogue

                      'if I genuinely believed I was working for such a system, then I would quit – you know, get some guts and all that.'

                      Yet you don't have the guts to make a post outlining your views and beliefs what those beliefs lead to

                      From the link you provided 20% will reoffend (and it'll be more than 20% in reality)

                      Get some guts, make a post and see what everyone else thinks

                    • Drowsy M. Kram

                      No electable political party supports what you're advocating (mass executions within the NZ penal system) – your extremely regressive 'treatment methods' for kiddy fiddlers” will not be implemented.

                      Imho these comments of yours are simply impotent macho bluster – if you genuinely believe that mass executions of child sex abusers would be "a good start", then please relocate to Bangladesh, India, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Iran, China, UAE or China, where your itchy execution finger might make a difference.

                      Considering my last shift was in Kia Marama I could name at least 60 people whose deaths would make NZ a much better, safer, place

                      Shame you can’t ask the families of the victims what they think but if 60 child sex offenders suddenly died in custody I’d think its a good start

                      I know what your next question is going to be and the answer is yes I would be willing to carry out the executions myself, if the death penalty was reinstated

                    • Puckish Rogue

                      'then please relocate to Bangladesh, India, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Iran, China, UAE or China, where your itchy execution finger might make a difference.'

                      And who'd replace me, you?

                      Someone so gutless they won't even put up a post because they're scared of the reactions they'll get

                      Yeah right

                    • Drowsy M. Kram

                      Someone so gutless they won’t even put up a post because they’re scared of the reactions they’ll get

                      Haven’t stopped commenting in this thread yet, and don’t intend to while comments remain open, because I believe your advocacy for mass executions within NZ penal system is extremely regressive, and disgraceful – a boil that needs to be lanced, so to speak.

                      And who'd replace me, you?

                      Doubt I'd be eligible – is it your contention that any replacement hired by Corrections would also advocate mass executions?

                      Tbf, the idea that an applicant for a CO position could harbour ambitions of carrying out mass executions within the NZ penal system probably never crossed the minds of your interviewers, and yet here are your words, in black and white.

                      Considering my last shift was in Kia Marama I could name at least 60 people whose deaths would make NZ a much better, safer, place

                      Shame you can’t ask the families of the victims what they think but if 60 child sex offenders suddenly died in custody I’d think its a good start

                      I know what your next question is going to be and the answer is yes I would be willing to carry out the executions myself, if the death penalty was reinstated

                    • Puckish Rogue

                      'Doubt I'd be eligible – is it your contention that any replacement hired by Corrections would also advocate mass executions?'

                      – Its my contention that anyone who hasn't got the courage to put a new post on here certainly wouldn't have the courage to step foot on the floor and tell prisoners what to do

                      'Tbf, the idea that an applicant for a CO position could harbour ambitions of carrying out mass executions within the NZ penal system probably never crossed the minds of your interviewers, and yet here are your words, in black and white.'

                      – Unlike you I stand by my words so keep posting them here or, if you've got the guts, a new post tomorrow morning

                      – Also sorry (not sorry) to burst your bubble but within Corrections Officers my views, not yours, are mainstream

                    • Drowsy M. Kram

                      Unlike you I stand by my words…

                      Like you, I stand by my words – advocating (on a left-leaning political blog, no less) for mass executions within the NZ penal system is extremely regressive, and disgraceful; a boil that needs to be lanced.

                      …so keep posting them here

                      Thanks – I most certainly will.

                      Also sorry (not sorry) to burst your bubble but within Corrections Officers my views, not yours, are mainstream

                      If these views really are mainstream among (a majority of?) Corrections Officers, then (imho) the Minister of Corrections should be made aware (if he isn’t already) – OK if I email this thread to his office, or will you?

                      Considering my last shift was in Kia Marama I could name at least 60 people whose deaths would make NZ a much better, safer, place

                      Shame you can’t ask the families of the victims what they think but if 60 child sex offenders suddenly died in custody I’d think its a good start

                      I know what your next question is going to be and the answer is yes I would be willing to carry out the executions myself, if the death penalty was reinstated

                      office.davis@parliament.govt.nz

                    • Drowsy M. Kram

                      Good, then the Minister’s office will receive this thread twice. [Oops, your reply seems to have disappeared?]

                      Don't know why you're so insistent that I should put up a new post – this thread is going OK as far as I'm concerned.

                      Considering my last shift was in Kia Marama I could name at least 60 people whose deaths would make NZ a much better, safer, place

                      Shame you can’t ask the families of the victims what they think but if 60 child sex offenders suddenly died in custody I’d think its a good start

                      I know what your next question is going to be and the answer is yes I would be willing to carry out the executions myself, if the death penalty was reinstated

                    • Puckish Rogue

                      'Good, then his office will receive this thread twice. [Oops, your reply seems to have disappeared?]'

                      – I'm shaking in my boots

                      'Don't know why you're so hot and bothered about me starting a new post – this one is fine as far as I'm concerned.'

                      – As course this is fine for you, no one else is reading it.

                    • Drowsy M. Kram

                      I don't mind how many people apart from you and me might read this thread or this email – hopefully at least one other person.

                      To the Office of the Minister of Corrections (the Hon Kelvin Davis)

                      It has come to my attention today that a NZ Corrections Officer who is advocating for mass executions within the NZ penal system, also believes that this view is mainstream among COs.

                      Normally I would dismiss such regressive advocacy as right-wing bravado, but he is an insider and, as such, perhaps his insights into work-related attitudes among COs should be taken seriously.

                      I would appreciate some reassurance from you, or your office, that advocacy for mass executions of prisoners is not widespread among Corrections staff. If these extremely regressive views are, in fact, widely held, then in my opinion this would constitute a metaphorical boil in need of lancing.

                      The following two direct quotes (made by the anonymous NZ Corrections Officer who drew this to my attention, and who has assured me that he will also be providing your office with the relevant thread) sums up the advocacy that I find so disgraceful. The entire thread (and a link to same) is appended at the end of this email.

                      "Considering my last shift was in Kia Marama I could name at least 60 people whose deaths would make NZ a much better, safer, place"

                      "Shame you can’t ask the families of the victims what they think but if 60 child sex offenders suddenly died in custody I’d think its a good start

                      I know what your next question is going to be and the answer is yes I would be willing to carry out the executions myself, if the death penalty was reinstated"

                      Sincerely, a concerned citizen [gave my real name in the email]

                      Well, that's done – don't expect anything beyond an acknowledgement but will let you know.

                    • Puckish Rogue

                      I'll wait with bated breath, thats sarcasm if you weren't sure

                    • Drowsy M. Kram

                      smiley

                    • Drowsy M. Kram

                      Tēnā koe,

                      Ngā mihi nui o te wā ki a koe.

                      Thank you for your email to the Hon. Kelvin Davis, MP for Te Tai Tokerau.

                      If your email is concerning one of his portfolios we will forward your correspondence onto Wellington for his team to action at k.davis@parliament.govt.nz

                      If your email is regarding an issue within the Te Tai Tokerau Electorate we will be in contact as soon as is possible. Apologies for any inconvenience this may cause.

                      Please accept this as acknowledgement of your correspondence.

                      Nākū noa,

                      The Office of the Hon Kelvin Davis

                      MP for Te Tai Tokerau

                      Minister of Corrections
                      Minister for Children
                      Minister for Te Arawhiti – Crown/Māori Relationships
                      Associate Minister of Education (Māori Education)
                      Deputy Leader of Labour Party

                      Authorised by Hon. Kelvin Davis MP, Parliament Buidings, Wellington

                    • Drowsy M. Kram

                      Email this morning, from a person (!) – will keep you informed:

                      Thank you for raising this, I have sent to our Wellington team to take a look into.

                  • Puckish Rogue

                    'Like you, I stand by my words – advocating for mass executions within the NZ penal system is extremely regressive, and disgraceful; a boil that needs to be lanced.'

                    No you don't.

                    You stand by your words when it suits you but you don't have the guts to start a new thread

                    'If these views are mainstream among Corrections Officers then (imho) the Minister of Corrections should be made aware – OK if I email this thread to his office, or will you?'

                    Sure I will

              • Jimmy

                It is pretty hard to get in to prison these days with a lot of judges giving very 'soft' home detention type sentences to reduce the prison numbers. But to be honest, if all the recidivist rapists, murderers, drug dealers and violent offenders that are in prison were suddenly 'wiped out' tomorrow (and I don't know how many that would be), I wouldn't lose any sleep.

        • Puckish Rogue 4.1.1.3

          'Mind you Trevor Mallard tried the sprinkler approach and that didn't work out too well!'

          I'd use it differently, spray them to make them wet and let the cold take care of the rest.

          No tents or supporters for the guys on the roof

          'Best to just leave them up there, they will come down when they get hungry.'

          Problem with that is the amount of damage they can do while up there, the potential for injury (I couldn't care less if they hurt themselves but you know what the medias like…) and that its the prisoners decision to come down which means in this situation they have control

          One way officers used to end hunger strikes was by cooking various foods and letting the smells do their thing or by making a very sweetened cup of tea/coffee but yeah with hunger strikers we actually monitor what they eat and drink, a real time consuming pain in the butt

  4. DB Brown 5

    A 60 year treaty of friendship with Samoa (as of yesterday) – that's awesome. We're there celebrating this event and with gifts. Lovely story.

    Also, embedded in the article is a rare clip – Our opposition leader not tripping over himself and politicking well.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/129452293/pm-jacinda-ardern-announces-funds-for-rebuild-of-historic-market-climate-change-projects-in-samoa

  5. joe90 6

    Out with the old half-wit, in with the new one.

    /

    https://twitter.com/RuthHen05786097/status/1554223524142792708

    • Stuart Munro 6.1

      The Conservatives should be more grateful – Starmer will never cobble together a majority while Nicola Sturgeon holds the North.

  6. Ha! Natz Bennet, a Luxon/Muller lookalike, lasted less than 10 minutes into QT today!

    But at least he found the exit without assistance! (Or at least, I hope so!)

    • Peter 7.1

      Dammit, I missed that. I've seen him before where he demonstrated a remarkable lack of intelligence. He simply didn't 'get' stuff.

  7. Robert Guyton 8

    Did anyone watch this??

    Every body should!!

    Kiri – amazing!!

    Question 11 – Hon Paul Goldsmith to the Minister of Justice

    (can't link).

  8. Stephen D 9

    The Greens are probably right, Part Two.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/aug/01/climate-endgame-risk-human-extinction-scientists-global-heating-catastrophe?utm_term=62e8ba27a84b101beef408793622657a&utm_campaign=FirstEdition&utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&CMP=firstedition_email

    ”The risk of global societal collapse or human extinction has been “dangerously underexplored”, climate scientists have warned in an analysis.”

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