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Open mike 02/10/2019

Written By: - Date published: 7:00 am, October 2nd, 2019 - 66 comments
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66 comments on “Open mike 02/10/2019 ”

  1. Herodotus 1

    recently I read how air NZ was hoping to be carbon neutral, I was thinking why should they?

    As air NZ flys in tourists that many other industries profit by catering for. So why should air NZ carry the full carbon debt on bring these people here, other than good PR Eg motels/hotels benefit once these tourists are here yet would not share the carbon burden. Perhaps we need to think in a more broad vision on who pays what regarding carbon

    • JanM 1.1

      It's not a competition for heaven's sake! Good on Air NZ if it can do this and the idea that we should all be peering over the fence to make sure we're not doing more than our neighbours is not exactly a mature response is it!

    • Dukeofurl 1.2

      The carbon neutral would cover the airline only ( mainly the planes) not what the passengers do when they get here.

      However you have to think of it as a form of public transport – a bus in the sky, with far higher fossil fuel efficency than cars used for personal transport.

      • Herodotus 1.2.1

        when the passengers get here those within the tourist industry don’t have any liability on the cost to deliver them, only their direct carbon cost. So for me with tourism as an example the tourist trade in total should be a net carbon absorber. And by “taxing” only the direct carbon costs to each player then leads to distortions. Eg the surf board hire has no carbon costs yet to deliver the surfer has a large carbon cost. That direct costs would not take into account .

    • Gabby 1.3

      I'd imagine it'll be their passengers carrying the cost hotroddy.

  2. mauī 2

    Oh the absurdity… the government ripping machine guns away from kids. Ewwww… who knew NZ had child soldiers.


    • ianmac 2.1

      The 7 TV1 Show gave her a supportive hearing. So did Lisa Owens with no alternative view. Wonder why? Is it because it might provoke interest in their programs? The Gun Lobby must have been delighted in an apparent publicity coup. Lisa's guest, a Gun Shop manageress did say that of course there are other options for the poor little mite. Must have hurt to say that!

      • Sanctuary 2.1.1

        How lazy was RNZ on that Checkpoint story last night? I couldn't believe my ears! Was everyone off with the flu and the rest of the office scratching around for some content before the gun lobby rode to the rescue with a pre-packaged offering that just required Lisa Owen to stick to the script?

        I Listened to that whole piece on Checkpoint last night and it was frankly bloody bizarre. Carefully curated with the exact opposite of your typical gun nut (young girl, Maori women, white female Olympian) The whole thing sounded like a 20 minute advertorial scripted by the gun lobby and delivered verbatim by a credulous RNZ.

        A 13 year old girl (hit Jacinda's image where it hurts, let's front with a kid!) with a wah wah wwah followed by the carefully choreographed interview from gun lobby group where the front person is the secretary Nicole McKee (cos she is brown and a woman – the chairman and vice-chairman both being white men wouldn't be as good a look) with Lisa Owen serving up soft serves for swatting then an "independent" view from someone who was introduced as an Olympic shooter (but let's not mention she is a gun shop manager and daughter of the owner of gun city).

        This story, IMHO, is part of looks like a worrying emerging trend of RNZ allowing itself and it’s authority to be used as a credulous shill for lobbyists – Guyon Espiner's "investigation" of Pharmac seemed to rely almost entirely on human interest content funneled to him from big pharma companies who hate Pharmac – in return for easy content.

      • Red Blooded One 2.1.2

        I'm sure any minute now Duncan Garner will come out and attack her by accusing her of being melodramatic like he did to Greta Thunberg. Waiting .. Tick Tock

        • McFlock

          lol inorite.

          A rightwing FB friend of mine got completely apeshit about a 16yo "being used" for political gain. Nothing so far about this 13yo though lol.

    • In the linked article, the kid's dad says:

      I hope you get this and have a long hard think about what you have done to poor little girls and boys with hopes and dreams that have been crushed by you.

      Oh, the horror! Our children's hopes and dreams of fun with military-style semi-automatics have been crushed by Jacinda Ardern! Won't somebody please, please think of the children!?

      • bwaghorn 2.2.1

        Some one should tell the stupid cunt to buy her a bolt action or a fucking shot gun if it's that fucking important to him . Fuck people are stupid .

      • Dukeofurl 2.2.2

        Plenty of .22 rifles can be still used for their "sport"- a pretence as its a glorified hobby.

        And the larger calibre, modified to take only a small magazine can still be privately owned.

        Some even can convert AR15 to .22


      • Gabby 2.2.3

        Some hopes and dreams need to be crushed.

      • Drowsy M. Kram 2.2.4

        Some children dream of curing cancer, flying to the moon, fighting fires, winning races, being dancers, or rock/sport stars, or artists, even (God help them) teachers – dare to dream.

        And some (apparently) dream of firing an AR-15 rifle! Where does that dream come from?

      • Sanctuary 2.2.5

        Yeah, that sounded utterly contrived and fake to me – I'd like to know more about this lass and her dad. Any actual journalists out there who might, you know, ask a few more questions?

        • veutoviper

          According to his very public Facebook page, the father (Matt Turner as named by several of the media reports eg The Herald article) appears to be very active in opposing gun restrictions and related policies both of the current govt as a whole and the individual parties (Greens/Labour/NZF) plus NZ Police – and supportive of ACT policies. Obviously very involved in the gun scene in NZ and the gun lobby, and has apparently filed various OIAs on these subjects including to Minister Nash. Haven't yet checked FYI.org.nz. Some FB entries also seem to indicate a possible/probable intolerance towards Muslims – including JA's wearing scarfs etc. Dad seems to be from the UK originally, now resident in Te Aroha with family etc.

          I won't provide a link to his FB page, but easily found as are other links via Google using his name plus other definers such as 'nz' and 'guns' etc.

      • Wensleydale 2.2.6

        If your hopes and dreams involve owning an AR-15, then yeah, sorry love, your hopes and dreams deserve to be tossed into history's dustbin for the greater good. Ask Dad for a pony instead?

    • Pat 3.1

      "So the men in white coats will have to take him away. And as they come for him Trump will try to destroy everything around him, because a world that rejects his self, that throws him from office, literally cannot exist. All this, according to the psychiatry textbooks, is inevitable. What a joy it will be to watch. And it's starting now."

      That Trump is a delusional narcissist has been evident since day one, what is really confounds is the near total support by those within the Republican Party ….or are they themselves similarly afflicted but more capable of masking it?

      • greywarshark 3.1.1

        The problem then is to turn attention to the people who vote for Trump and his ilk and try and save ourselves from their skewed minds. Are people fit enough mentally and analytically to take part in a democracy? Certainly sitting around on bums and whining about what pollies do is not sufficient for a modern democracy of educated people. Either educate people to the teenage years when they can read, write and do sums and then subsidise businesses to take them on and give them work skills so they can get started in life; or teach them how politics and civil society work and how to manage themselves, and give them a 'list' place in their community forums so they are involved right from the start in making the good society.

        Getting rid of Trump is only cutting out a malignancy. It will have metastasised throughout the body of the polity. Healthier thinking and happier, simpler, thoughtful living may tame the dastardly disease. We can't cure it but if we can work together, collaborate and be sincere with each other, as much as is politic, then we will be able to keep the 7 deadly sins to a manageable level.


      • Wensleydale 3.1.2

        The GOP are self-serving opportunists to their core. They'll support a rabid dog just so long as it's toilet-trained and promises not to bite them. They woefully misjudged just how out-of-control Mad King Donald would prove to be, and they're at a bit of a loss in figuring out how to handle him. I mean, there comes a point when even your most feeble excuses are howled down in a torrent of open contempt. People are waking up to what a venal, morally-bankrupt pack of brigands they are, and they know it. It's why they're so desperate to cheat. It's the only way they'll win.

        • Pat

          Agree theres the typical self serving forces at play but even so I would expect that to cover a spectrum and that even the most self serving must question the risk he poses to their gravy train even if they can ignore the risk to their country….in other words isnt there a point at which it becomes too dangerously bizarre and Trump had crossed that point even before he was sworn in.

    • Dukeofurl 3.2

      We should have more of Joe Bennetts columns, does he still write regularly?

  3. ianmac 4

    “I’m definitely not surprised on a day-to-day basis to see bullying’s become a major headline New Zealand,” says Caroline Krieger, an employment law partner with Morrison Kent.

    She believes bullying accusations have become somewhat of a “trend” in employment law….

    ..The introduction of new legislation, and the #MeToo movement, are also contributing to a growing number of bullying claims, she says.

    Have wondered about that even in the Labour Party bullying claims.

    Alex Ashton:


    • Anne 4.1

      Talking of bullying… this quote from the BBC news:

      'It is bullying'…

      … He accused the paper of misleading readers when it published the private letter, by strategically omitting paragraphs, sentences and specific words "to mask the lies they had perpetrated for over a year".

      "Put simply, it is bullying, which scares and silences people. We all know this isn't acceptable, at any level," he said.

      "We won't and can't believe in a world where there is no accountability for this.

      It is Prince Harry talking about the bullying and harassment of his wife, They are suing the Mail on Sunday.

      Sounds familiar? It is. This is exactly what National are doing to government MPs. Selecting words, paragraphs of speeches in the House and stringing them together to form a misleading impression. The outcome – if it is allowed to continue in the form adopted by National – is these MPs will be bullied into virtual silence and will be afraid to speak up when it is desirable.


      Worthy of a read because it shows just how damaging bullying and harassment can be and the lasting effect on the victims whoever they may be.

      • phillip ure 4.1.1

        cd someone plse stitch together a vid-clip of bridges saying:

        'i will terminate trump'…and other similar delights..?

        (maybe he will get it – then..)

        that these clowns are dying in a ditch over their ‘right’ to edit/make up false news-clips – as an attack tool..

        only shows that they have totally lost the plot..

        they got nuthin..!

  4. esoteric pineapples 5

    I was watching the video interview with CIA whistle blower John Kiriakou where he gave a personal anecdote of when he was working in Saudi Arabia and every morning he would give a friendly greeting to a Saudi military person of some kind and the Saudi would completely ignore him. Eventually John asked him why he was so unfriendly and the Saudi replied words to the effect that he and all Americans were nothing more than hired military help. John explained that the Saudis use foreign troops for nearly all their fighting and that the Saudis themselves are militarily inept which losing three brigades (10,000-12,000 soldiers) inside Saudi Arabia might suggest


    • esoteric pineapples 5.1

      Excellent military analysis of the recent events here, suggesting that Saudi and the US have more or less already lost the war against Yemen:

      "The third-biggest arms spender in the world is incapable of defeating the poorest Arab country in the world. It is, moreover, incapable of protecting its national interest and borders from this impoverished Arab country. The Houthis are showing to the world what a poor but organized and motivated armed force can do using asymmetrical methods to bring one of the best-equipped militaries in the world to its knees. This conflict will be studied all over the world as an example of how a new means of warfare is possible when technological and cyber capabilities are democratized and available to those who know how to use them appropriately, as the Houthis have shown with their use of drones and electronic warfare."


      • Gabby 5.1.1

        Raytheon's doing just fine thankyouverymuch.

      • Stuart Munro. 5.1.2

        It is interesting – and Al Jazeera essentially confirms it. The effect of serial defeats on Saudi could create a major shift in the local balance of power; part of their status descends from possession of the two holy mosques and the presumption of the mandate of heaven that goes with them. Conspicuous defeat is really not good for such presumptions, and may see a realignment of traditional supporters.

        There is a question to be answered over the sponsorship of recent drone strikes – if it were not Iran, who was it? One need not look particularly far to find a state that would cheerfully destabilize any US ally, and may have some historical grievance with the house of Saud.

        "Saudi Arabia and its oil policy are thought to have contributed to the downfall of Soviet Communism in the late 1980s and early 1990. Saudi helped to finance not just the Afghan Mujahideen but non-Muslims anti-communists. It also seriously harmed the Soviet Communist cause by stabilizing oil prices "throughout the 1980s, just when the Russians were desperate to sell energy in order to keep up with huge hikes in American military spending."

        • Francesca

          I would have thought either the utter failure of air defence/radar expensively bought from the US or the notorious laziness of the Sauds (taking a break in the weekend by turning off the radar) might have something to do with it

          The old Russians did it trope is losing its pulling power

          • Stuart Munro.

            You really don't get it, as usual.

            If the drones weren't Iraqi supplied, who do you suppose supplied them to the Houthi? I really don't think you can blame this one on Hillary.

            • Francesca


              That's a new twist

              The drones aren't expensive ,the Houthis have been using them for a long while

              They fly beneath the radar

              The Sauds may have the fire power but they don't have the fighting smarts a smaller force has to learn

      • David Mac 5.1.3

        I've never been reliant on an army of mercenaries but I've seen the malaise of being rich enough to have someone else do everything in other ways. 30 year old individuals from wealthy families that don't know how to cook an egg, vacuum a floor or catch a bus.

      • Sanctuary 5.1.4

        My friend, you've been suckered by a fake news pro-Kremlin propaganda site. The website you quote – Strategic Culture Foundation – is a Russian black propaganda site of a kind that litters the internet.

        The clue is it's rather odd enthusiams for Russian weapons and the acceptance of the DPR and LNR as legitimate – only Russia recognises them, the rest of the world having designated them terrorists.

        Nowhere can one learn that the site is registered and managed in Russia. This is only disclosed by checking the site data.

        If there actually exists a Strategic Culture Foundation it is impossible to discover. The site gives no information on owners, editors, visiting address. There isn’t even an e-mail address for contacting the site or the foundation. At least we now know the Russians make excellent weapons that are far better than the useless stuff the Americans and Europeans make!

        None of which mitigates that the Saudis appear to have suffered a major defeat at the hands of the Houthis. But that is about as much credence I'd give anything that site says.

    • AB 5.2

      The purpose behind the Saudi's purchase of vast quantities military hardware from the US has nothing to do with defense (or attack). It will most likely never be used. The purpose is to recycle the Saudi's oil revenue surpluses through the US economy. That is the quid pro quo for having the US's support in the region. And from the Saudis' perspective it's a vastly preferable arrangement to having the US engineer regime change and control the oil revenues directly. The US doesn't need the physical oil – it is now the world's largest producer – but it wants to tap into revenue streams everywhere.

    • Kevin 5.3

      I not convinced by the video of the 'captured soldiers'. The SA military is very well equipped and am surprised that very few were wearing fatigues and the weaponry does not appear to be US in origin. I would be very surprised if the US was supplying AK47's to SA, they usually save that for their proxies like ISIS, Al Queda and the Taliban.

      I think there is an element of propaganda about this but in saying that, I wish the Houthi all the best.

    • AB 6.1

      As much as I despise those who despised Helen Clark – I would never stoop to correcting their spelling or grammar.

  5. Robert Guyton 7

    "Jian Yang in China for CCP military parade

    Just weeks after Simon Bridges faced backlash over a trip to China and a meeting with the country’s spy boss, National MP Jian Yang has returned to Beijing for a major military parade. Laura Walters reports.

    Controversial National Party MP Jian Yang is in Beijing for the People's Republic of China's 70th anniversary celebrations.

    More specifically, he’s part of a group of distinguished guests attending the parade of the People’s Liberation Army from a special vantage point, at the invitation of the Chinese Government."


    • mary_a 7.1

      Thanks Robert @ (7) for this information.

      Re Jian Yang's citizenship, of which I find confusing, along with his place as a National list MP.

      I know to hold a place in the NZ Parliament, an MP must be a NZ citizen, including holding dual citizenship.

      However, as far as China is concerned, dual citizenship is forbidden. In other words, Chinese citizenship must be forfeited, should a Chinese national gain citizenship of another state. Google dual NZ/Chinese citizenship.

      Yet Yang as "a distinguished (NZ or Chinese?) guest" is invited to attend a military parade celebrating 70 years of CCP rule! Considered a distinguished guest for what …? A loyal member of the CCP reporting back to Beijing perhaps, while his party National turns a blind eye to his activities, so as to drum up support and massive (split) donations from Chinese nationals living in NZ?

      Having admitted his NZ citizenship application was misrepresented at the request of Beijing at the time Yang applied, where does that leave him as an MP? Isn't falsifying a NZ Citizenship application considered illegal?

      Is Jian Yang a NZ citizen or not? Or is he a citizen of China? He cannot be both!

  6. Edit:
    Brexit news :

    Wales? What is the thinking there?
    Brexit will make the UK stronger as a union of nations, Welsh Secretary Alun Cairns will tell the Conservative Party conference later.

    They are being offered 55 million pounds 'over 15 years for the Mid Wales Growth Deal,' for development in Powys and Ceredigon. (Powys in some Welsh historical stories is portrayed as the area that England was able to win over, leading to the downfall of the Principality.) There are claims that this will attract 200 mill. pds and generate jobs of course, the figure being 4,000. Pie-in-the-sky political promises, it sounds, (in short PSPP).

    'But the Welsh Government said the money was "derisory".'…

    A spokesperson for Economy Minister Ken Skates said: "Whilst we welcome any new investment, this funding in no way offsets the disastrous Tory cuts mid Wales has had to endure during this last decade of austerity.

    "The figure of £55m will likely be viewed as derisory by the people of mid Wales when set against recent Welsh Government investment in mid Wales, such as the £95m Newtown bypass, which attracted no UK government funding whatsoever."


    PM strikes secret deal with DUP as he draws up ‘final Brexit offer’

    Boris Johnson agrees pact with Northern Irish party as details emerge of ‘two borders’ plan

  7. joe90 9

    Leaking like sieve.

  8. This is informative – 27/9/19 but some may not have read it.
    Can a no-deal Brexit still happen?

    Aljazeera view on Ireland border:
    Will Boris Johnson bring customs checkpoints in Ireland?
    UK PM’s comments have been met with concern in the EU and anger in Ireland, which is against a return to a hard border.

    The World Trade Organization (WTO) has cut its forecast for growth in global trade this year by more than half, saying further rounds of tariffs and retaliation, a slowing economy and a disorderly Brexit could squeeze it even more.

    The WTO said on Tuesday that it now expects global merchandise trade to increase by 1.2 percent this year, compared with its April estimate of 2.6 percent. The growth rate stood at 3 percent in 2018. For 2020, it has been forecast to grow at 2.7 percent, down from a previous estimate of 3 percent.

  9. Francesca 11

    As to Munros predictable Russia blaming in the Saud debacle
    I would have thought either the utter failure of air defence/radar expensively bought from the US or the notorious laziness of the Sauds (taking a break in the weekend by turning off the radar) might have something to do with it

    The old Russians did it trope is losing its pulling power

  10. I have just hit on a word that we could put at the centre of our lives and our feelings towards other NZ citizens which would revolutionise the way that we regard our country, and relate to those fellow citizens, and all have a better life. Gratitude.

    That would stop us being so greedy that we go OTT. And stop us wanting to hold all our advantages to ourselves because we don't want to share, we feel too deserving to share, we haven't got all we want yet so none to share. We would pay our reasonable taxes and moan about the excessive ones that unfairly cut into our lives. It would stop us in our tracks as we became obsessive about having and holding. It would enable us to study what we have, and decide what we could give away, contribute to others.

    As Fred sang 'You don't know how lucky you are mate'. That had a satirical ring and probably it was aimed at some political propaganda. But taking a step back and surveying the situation, it is true. When so much has been taken away from so many, and somehow we still have our lives, homes, something worthwhile to do that isn't bad four health, health care etc., we should remember to feel gratitude. How do you know something is good if you don't recognise it; it is necessary to learn to discriminate, to decide what is good, not so good, bad. We will find a lot of good that we had overlooked.

    And I found a good Tedx talk from Christchurch – Dr Lucy Hone, The three secrets of resilient people. I have put it on How to Get There as I like to group future thinking things that would improve our situation. https://thestandard.org.nz/how-to-get-there-29-9-19/#comment-1658637

    I feel gratitude at Robert G for setting up the post and to the mods and backup? folks for backing this project. I feel gratitude to Lynn for setting up the blog and to Blip for setting an example of putting a set of points together (about John Key) which I thought was brilliant (and a lot of work). So I support How to Get There which will be handy for people to use this tool that others have set up.

    Our motto for the present in NZ is to Use It, or Lose It. Don't ignore what is good around you, feel gratitude that people have set their minds to provide helpful things which enable us to have resilience and kindness in our lives. Accept the gift that they have given, feel gratitude that it is there, and make their toil worthwhile by taking advantage of their enterprise.

  11. Father of 13 year old who wants to shoot things with a semi-automatic rifle. There is an event that involves being proficient with three diffferent types of guns used in quick succession. It sounds like a defence forces exercise, and they may be more proficient than some of our soldiers!

    ""For a week now she's been like 'I can't do anything, I can't do anything, no one really listens anyway', and I said 'well, write a letter and I'll make sure it gets to the right place."


    How true about the not listening. People like this don't pay any attention to the rest of the world, they don't listen, they are too focussed on their own interests. They sound like UK residents who can afford to come here to live and have access to expensive weapons and are used to having everything they want. Boo hoo

  12. Israel might see a big change if they could get their army out of politics.


    Crunch time for Netanyahu as talks with rival politicians break down
    29 Sept 2019 [The] Prime minister had potentially up to six weeks to form coalition but negotiations with the opposition stalled just days in

    Benjamin Netanyahu could inform Israel’s president that he is unable to form a government as early as this week after unity talks with rival politicians broke down at the weekend, his Likud party said.

    Israel has entered a period of political paralysis after an inconclusive election on 17 September. Neither Likud nor the opposition Blue and White party, led by ex-military general Benny Gantz, won a clear lead.

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