Open mike 02/12/2023

38 comments on “Open mike 02/12/2023 ”

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1. bwaghorn 1

   2 December 2023 at 6:19 am

   https://i.stuff.co.nz/opinion/301019123/reductio-ad-absurdum-and-the-unintended-consequences-of-the-new-government

   Ian Taylor with serious buyers remorse, after voting national. Hay Ian it was obviously going to be a shit show once luxon ruled nzf in on the campaign trail.
   • Dennis Frank 1.1

     2 December 2023 at 6:55 am

     Can't blame the tobacco policy on Winston. Since I've never voted National I see the knight's triple vote track record as indicating a bit of a slow learner. Good on him for taking a moral stand though. I suspect it's an early indication of a snowballing trend which may show up in the first poll post-election.
     • Descendant Of Smith 1.1.1

       2 December 2023 at 8:30 am

       It isn't MMP's fault that the outcome of the negotiations resulted in the things Mr Taylor doesn't like.

       Whatever happened to personal responsibility – it is the fault of those people who did the negotiations and concessions. Luxon could have ruled out Winston prior to the election but chose not to and encouraged voters to vote for him as a back-up should National and Act not get enough votes.

       It's the fault of the formation of the National Party and it's premise to destroy the Labour Party – they could for instance have formed a coalition government with Labour. While there is a difference between them they are both wedded to neo-liberal economic theory i.e. trickle down economics, privatisation of assets, etc.

       MMP doesn't stop those choices.
       • Dennis Frank 1.1.1.1

         2 December 2023 at 9:13 am

         A Nat/Lab govt would only work on the basis of a future for neoliberalism. I think there's no future there. The inertial effect of Nats & Labs clinging onto a dead ideology is what we have.

         Re blaming MMP, yeah absolutely, but it just gets down to Lux's optimism plus the caginess you refer to. Moment maketh the man (apologies for getting biblical).
         • Descendant Of Smith 1.1.1.1.1

           2 December 2023 at 9:20 am

           There's clearly a future for it. People are voting for it and there is a whole generation or two now who don't know any different.

           No idea about 8 hour working days, 40 hour working weeks, raising a family and buying a house off one income, councils and governments owning assets that generate revenue so income isn't wholly dependent on rates and taxes, people in workplaces being paid extra if they had families to raise (even the bank I worked for in the 80's did this).

           We have a mayor in Auckland who firmly wants to continue down the neo-liberal track.
           • Dennis Frank 1.1.1.1.1.1

             2 December 2023 at 9:30 am

             I meant long-term. I agree pragmatism dictates adherence in the short to medium term. Like any voyage, one starts from where one is at the time. I can tolerate zombie economics but mindless consumerism does plenty of damage in families & communities so I tend to feel for the victims.
2. Dennis Frank 2

   2 December 2023 at 6:40 am

   I'll keep an open mind on this guy – it's results that count, so Greta may be jumping the gun.

   Mr Jaber is currently the Minister of Industry and Advanced Technology of the UAE. He has also held other cabinet minister roles and has been the country's chief climate diplomat since 2020. As chairman of the National Media Council from 2015-2020, he oversaw the UAE's media, which ranks poorly on press freedom. Born in 1973, the 50-year-old oil exec is not a member of any of the six ruling families of the seven Emirates but has risen up the ranks of Emirati society. https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-67591804

   His view is that fossil fuels are the heart of the climate crisis so it makes sense to persuade that industry to change from the inside.

   "Never in history has a COP president confronted the oil industry, let alone the fact that he's a CEO of an oil company," he told the Guardian.

   He is also the ideal person to push for action, he argues, because as chairman of state renewable energy company Masdar, he has overseen the expansion of clean technologies like wind and solar power.

   The transforming within thing was role-modelled by this baron when he was BP's chief exec: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Browne,_Baron_Browne_of_Madingley
3. Dennis Frank 3

   2 December 2023 at 6:46 am

   Nat/Green collaboration ongoing: https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/climate-news/133383015/why-is-the-old-climate-minister-invited-to-the-cop28-global-talks

   Watts may be that rarest of creatures; a National minister who's not obviously a retard. https://nz.linkedin.com/in/simonglenwatts

   Will be interesting to see how the twosome reports back to us. Common ground needs to be established early on for optimal influence…
   • CharlieB 3.1

     2 December 2023 at 7:52 am

     I saw this.. Part of me thinks it makes sense to bring the ex minister along considering the time between Simon Watts taking on that role and the beginning on the summit. So, why not bring the person along that's up to speed and has been doing the job for the last 6 years?

     However, I also wonder if there might also be a more pragmatic aspect to this as well. Shaw has worked closely with the Nats before, along side Muller in particular, to formulate policy. I'm wondering if this might also be about preparing a bed to feather in 2026 in the hopes that any further Nat MMP coalition can leave the nuttier aspects of the current three headed dog on the side lines in favour of a more stable and productive blue/green coalition..?

     This current mess of a government seems more about Luxon's ego than actual proactive and productive legislative change.
     • Dennis Frank 3.1.1

       2 December 2023 at 9:01 am

       Bit too soon to write the egghead off – I acknowledge the ego dimension but he could be behind or consulted on Watts' collaborative initiative. Re pragmatism, definitely, since it has always been the primary feature of the way James does Green politics.

       Re 2026, businessmen are notorious for short-termism which only allows for the possibility that either egghead or Watts is non-standard. The time to play the bluegreen hand for the Nats was when Key took control. Too stupid.
4. bwaghorn 4

   2 December 2023 at 6:51 am

   https://newsroom.co.nz/2023/11/28/govt-backing-for-taranaki-seabed-mining-amid-environment-debate/

   A country has to eat , I say yes to targeted mining of largely barren sands!

   We should be mining phosphate off the Chatham rise aswell.
   • Dennis Frank 4.1

     2 December 2023 at 7:06 am

     The assumption that the country profits as much as the company from this scheme strikes me as rather dodgy. I reckon it could only be feasible if the company can specify the proportion of wealth generated that will go to all kiwis so everyone can weigh the pros & cons re damage done.

     But of course corporate ethos is to hide everything to avoid accountability, so that will never happen…
     • bwaghorn 4.1.1

       2 December 2023 at 7:56 am

       http://The assumption that the country profits as much as the company from this scheme strikes me as rather dodgy.

       if only we had the ability to to put in place clauses that would insure nz profits, like maybe a government?
       • Dennis Frank 4.1.1.1

         2 December 2023 at 9:06 am

         You're onto it. They don't call that thinking around social contract basic for nothing – it hit the big-time in the 18th century. However, up against trad mercenary thinking it only got intellectual traction. To get political traction it needs advocates who persevere at establishing common ground. Now if leftist parties were to stop ignoring it and start using it…
   • Ad 4.2

     2 December 2023 at 7:30 am

     That Chatham Rise decision was really tough. It had the potential to decrease our massive vulnerability to imports out of Spanish Sahara.

     There's research going on into seaweed as fertiliser alternative – and some commercialisation – but it will take many years and higher costs for that to replace phosphate rock.

     https://agrisea.co.nz/products/soil-nutrition/?gclid=CjwKCAiApaarBhB7EiwAYiMwqhk22hMaUyTkK4NjYuxawuabT7HgE70aQbDwoPlgCFy4XlxwzJKK4xoC64gQAvD_BwE

     In Taranaki though with fair-scale seabed mining you'd have to face the reality that you would finally wipe out the last 60 Hector's Dolphin.
     • Robert Guyton 4.2.1

       2 December 2023 at 9:22 am

       An industry that relies upon the ongoing importation of bulk raw material from afar is a seriously faulted industry and should be overhauled asap.

       The vital elements needed for farming arrive here effortlessly and at no cost; sunlight, rain and the other essentials for food production; biological communities, all gasses needed. Selenium is lacking from our soils and a case can be made for its importation, but amounts needed are tiny, by comparison with phosphate, as discussed above.
       • Dennis Frank 4.2.1.1

         2 December 2023 at 9:36 am

         Ain't exactly hard to learn how plants naturally extract from ecosystems what they need. Perhaps those teaching the kids aren't teaching them to learn that??

         Or is it a lag effect? "Yeah, someone told me that way back but I'm waiting till the relevance becomes apparent."

         Perhaps I'm being too simplistic: "Agriculture only works productively if you warp ecosystems via additive alchemy."
         • Robert Guyton 4.2.1.1.1

           2 December 2023 at 9:59 am

           Warping ecosystems to improve food production for humans is inevitable, but as with most things, discretion has to be applied around scale and effects. Conventional agricultural practice here in NZ does not apply such discretion to any significant degree, imo, hence the harm it does.
   • Robert Guyton 4.3

     2 December 2023 at 9:26 am

     Yeah; looks like there's nothing much of any consequence living there. In any case, out of sight, out of mind.

     Guess that's what the first farmers in New Zealand thought about the native forest growing here. Huia-puia! Stupid Laughing owls, keeping honest men awake at night! Piopio, lazy fat thrush! Begone!
     • bwaghorn 4.3.1

       2 December 2023 at 3:40 pm

       I bet even you with gentle foot print on the world causes the death of a multitude of lives of some kind, working where the guilt line is is the challenge.
5. Grey Area 5

   2 December 2023 at 7:58 am

   I realise it's been shared before but I wasn't paying attention and can't remember when it last was. Can someone please provide details of the URL of paid content reader and how to use it.
   • joe90 5.1

     2 December 2023 at 10:18 am

     This?

     https://thestandard.org.nz/mergers-and-acquisitions/#comment-1977124
     • Grey Area 5.1.1

       2 December 2023 at 10:48 am

       Yep. Thanks. I knew I'd seen it recently but couldn't find it. It was a scroll of several threads but may still have qualified as a bloke look.
6. joe90 6

   2 December 2023 at 10:14 am

   Seems very, very bad.

   2. The Second Term

   Jonathan Karl is a straight-news reporter. He talked with Bill Kristol this week about a Trump second term and Karl might as well have been Ian Bassin.

   Why is Karl so alarmed that he sounds like a pro-democracy activist?

   Because he’s spent the last year reporting on Trump. He’s interviewed Trump and loads of Republicans. He told Kristol that 95 percent of the sourcing for his book came from Republicans, many of whom worked for Trump. And the picture they painted for Karl was dystopian.

   • Acting appointments from top to bottom.
   • A cadre of thousands of political appointees, vetted for personal loyalty to Trump, replacing career civil servants.
   • An understanding among Trump lieutenants that they are free to break the law because they will be pardoned.
   • An overriding desire on the part of Trump to seek retribution against perceived enemies.

   Again—and I cannot emphasize this enough—this is not a prediction from me and my weirdo, Never Trump friends. This is what the people who worked for Trump believe he will do.

   https://plus.thebulwark.com/p/theres-a-storm-coming-we-all-know (Jonathan V. Last)
7. Dennis Frank 7

   2 December 2023 at 10:20 am

   On the resilience front (cheap sustenance) I just gave their moroccan soup a try.

   https://www.fwhitlock.co.nz/Fred-s-Story

   Unfortunately company got bought by the aussies tho. No matter, recipe still works extremely well. You can also do neolib economics on it: $4.50 a can – you ignore their instructions & double the water into it to get you three excellent mid-morn semi-meals in a row. At $1.17 each, who's gonna argue?
   • joe90 7.1

     2 December 2023 at 10:39 am

     The gorgeous, spicy, fruity aromas wafting from Whitlock's London street factory, and Griffin's biscuit factory on the Quay, were the smells of old Whanganui.

     The factory closed down in 1993.

     
     • Dennis Frank 7.1.1

       2 December 2023 at 11:03 am

       I must confess that despite biking up London St continuously to college & sometimes down the quay I never noticed either in the ambience. Genetic probably. Sinus problems inherited from the Germanic Franks. Never had a sensitive nose…
       • joe90 7.1.1.1

         2 December 2023 at 11:24 am

         After school we would bike over to the kiosk by the Ridgeway street over-bridge and line up to buy 5 cent bags of broken, still hot milk arrowroot biscuits. On a winter afternoon…!!
         • Dennis Frank 7.1.1.1.1

           2 December 2023 at 11:29 am

           I recall regularly dunking those in my cups of tea back then (but didn't know about the factory rejects). Haven't had any for yonks. New World makes a classic date loaf for $6 which keeps me going a month or so.
           • Janice 7.1.1.1.1.1

             2 December 2023 at 5:31 pm

             The other day I was just recalling the aroma in Kyber Pass of the Heards factory and the maltly smell of the ?Lion ?/Dominion breweries. Worth a sniff any day.
8. joe90 8

   2 December 2023 at 10:56 am

   Another example of imperialism for the usual suspects to defend.

   /

   Venezuela might mount a military move into Guyana as Caracas faces accusations that it is attempting an aggressive land grab in its resource-rich neighbor, it has been reported.

   Brazilian intelligence has warned that the Venezuelan army is going to invade Guyana in the coming days, Defence Blog.org reported, raising concerns about regional stability and territorial disputes in South America.

   Open source X account OSINT defender posted on Wednesday that Brazilian armed forces are in a "heightened state of readiness" following a significant movement of military equipment and personnel in eastern Venezuela on the border of Guyana.

   https://www.newsweek.com/guyana-venezuela-maduro-invasion-us-essequibo-1848408
   • Dennis Frank 8.1

     2 December 2023 at 11:05 am

     Leftists doing a land-grab? Perhaps Lenin handed down a directive from on high. Tankies next?
     • joe90 8.1.1

       2 December 2023 at 11:26 am

       Campists?
9. Dennis Frank 9

   2 December 2023 at 11:36 am

   The old phrase `dead as a dodo' could be headed for extinction…

   An audacious collaboration between geneticists and conservationists plans to bring back the extinct dodo and reintroduce it to its once-native habitat in Mauritius.

   US-based biotechnology and genetic engineering company Colossal Biosciences, which is pursuing the “de-extinction” of multiple species, including the woolly mammoth, has entered a partnership with the Mauritian Wildlife Foundation to find a suitable location for the large flightless birds.

   The dodo has been extinct since 1681 https://edition.cnn.com/dodo-de-extinction-mauritius-spc-intl-scn/index.html

   Next thing Trump will be musing `hmmm.. I could fund the bringing back of neanderthals. Too many republicans are wimpish. They need positive role-modelling'.
   • Adrian 9.1

     2 December 2023 at 5:15 pm

     I'll pay to bring back the Poukai, Haasts Eagle to the Te Reo limited. Imagine it, hundreds of them soaring and swooping, grabbing the old sheepy straggler and the occasional naughty disobedient kid who didnt stay close to mum and dad, a small price to pay for to see nature put back to rights. And think of the tourist attraction they would be.
     • bwaghorn 9.1.1

       2 December 2023 at 6:46 pm

       Be a good way to clean up the feral goats and deer
10. joe90 10

    2 December 2023 at 3:26 pm

    The author puts the slipper into Kissinger and "the Blob'" that revered him.

    https://news.yahoo.com/henry-kissinger-only-cared-one-165154970.html
    • Visubversa 10.1

      2 December 2023 at 5:38 pm

      "The Blob"? I remember the movie – it was one of the staples of the "Head, Horror and Novelty" nights the University theatre ran in my younger days. They made a bomb on the lolly stall as well.

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