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Open mike 02/08/2016

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, August 2nd, 2016 - 187 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

openmikeOpen mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose. The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

187 comments on “Open mike 02/08/2016 ”

  1. Paul 1

    Does the government care about anything?
    Not worried or I’m comfortable seems to be a stock answer from ministers nowadays.

    Govt aware EU investigating NZ tax rules

    The government is aware that the European Parliament is investigating New Zealand in the wake of the Panama Papers but said it is not worried.

    The Panama Papers revealed how some of the world’s richest people use foreign trusts, including in New Zealand, to hide their wealth and avoid paying tax.

    In June, the European Parliament set up a special committee to investigate matters that were raised by the papers and it wants to blacklist countries that are operating as tax havens.


  2. Paul 2

    Is Winston Peters the only MP prepared to stand up for New Zealand’s rights regarding housing?
    Are we to be tenants in our own land as Labour and National bow down to their masters in the U.S. and China?
    Free trade deals signed by both parties have reduced our sovereignty and rights.


  3. Paul 3

    The Herald cannot spell.
    Their online headline presently reads as follows……

    Has Auckland property lost it’s shine?

    This is what happens when you cut back on quality staff.
    Too much time spent on Instasham and Fakebook.

  4. gsays 4

    We need a catchy phrase to describe the shaky coalition that is in power currently.

    National: no idealogues, stack it high sell it cheap, heartless ladder pullers (education (night schools), housing, health).

    Maori party: some knights and dames of the brown table, happy for some crumbs.

    Act: hard right, margin of error flunkies.

    United future… Pious bouffant who will lay down for anyone with a few baubles.

    What term encapsulates this mob that governs us?

    • BM 4.2

      Democratically elected majority.

      Suck on that.

      • Jones 4.2.1

        Classy BM.

      • gsays 4.2.2

        Hi BMW, perhaps “with some poor mannered supporters” could be added to the description.

      • save nz 4.2.3

        @ BM – elected majority

        With help from their no questions asked immigration policy, trying to get as many folks resident from Asia and overseas to support Mr Key – currently something like 1.5% per year increases in population from migration. Over the 9 year term of the Natz this can change the population over 13%.
        It is already predicted that Asian will be the 2nd largest demographic in NZ and over take Maori. http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11166485
        Illegal Tweets from the All blacks on election day.
        Changing legalisation to render people unable to vote (with high Maori demographics).
        Dirty politics.
        Manipulating and controlling the MSM messages.
        Stopping investigative journalists by any way they can.
        Burying bad news.
        Corrupting and co opting the Maori party to help them in their dirty deeds.

        • gsays

          Hi save nz,
          You can add Canterbury environment crowd, Saudi sheep shenanagins and a few schools with unnecessary statutory management to the list of ‘Democratic actions’ this corrupt mob have undertaken.

      • Stuart Munro 4.2.4

        Says who – mass disenfranchisements right left and center. If you didn’t get to vote you have an absolute right to oust the Key junta.

      • Andrea 4.2.5

        “Democratically elected majority.”

        Are you sure?

        Looked more like a subset of the minority who vote… We don’t do ‘democracy’ here.

    • Sabine 4.3

      the question should be

      What term encapsulates this group that voted for this.

      Cause at some stage the people that voted for this need to be held accountable.

      • Planet Earth 4.3.1


      • BM 4.3.2

        What do you mean by held accountable?

        • Bea Brown

          I think she means line them up and shoot them.
          Or perhaps just the gulag.

          [This site doesn’t accept advocating violence. Suggesting that others are advocating violence without evidence is also bad form. Please tone it down in future. TRP]

          • Sabine

            are you advocating violence? Or are you just bored and like to put your hands into shit and fling it about?

        • Sabine

          required or expected to justify actions or decisions; responsible.
          “ministers are accountable to Parliament”
          synonyms: responsible, liable, answerable, chargeable; More
          able to be explained or understood.
          “the delayed introduction of characters’ names is accountable, if we consider that names have a low priority”
          synonyms: explicable, explainable; More

          • Bea Brown

            So you want those voters to be held liable for their vote or to justify it or be answerable for it. And what then – charged? For what? And what are the penalties you have in mind?
            Your helpful recourse to a dictionary raises even more questions about how you want to hold voters accountable for exercising their democratic rights.
            It sounds a bit ominous so please do explain.

            • Sabine

              here honey, have a some tissues to wipe away your crocodile tears.

              poor misunderstood thing you.

              • BM

                How are National voters going to get held accountable?

                • Sabine

                  well the national voters coming to my shop complaining about stuff are being told by me that thy voted for this government, three times to be precises, which means they must like what they get served and as such should simply shut the fuck up or vote differently the next time.

                  you know, you buy it you own it.
                  or you break it you own it.

                  you know accountability.

                  so mate, you kids not finding a house to live any where in nz. shut the fuck up, you voted for that shit.

                  the road that was build with tax payers money going to be a toll road, shut the fuck up you voted for that shit.

                  need surgery and can’t get one cause waiting lists, you voted for that shit so shut the fuck up.

                  have cancer and are unemployed and the lady tells you to get a fucking job or no benefit? you voted for that shit, so shut the fuck up.

                  you know, you voted for that shit, now eat it. all of it. and don’t ever come around to me and complain.

                  so there? happy mate?

                  • weka

                    god, I so hope that you really do do that.

                  • Reddelusion

                    Your shop sounds like wonderful comic relief, do we get the swearing with an accent

                  • Chuck

                    Then Sabine you are very lucky the Nat voters that come into your shop are so understanding of your condition*… and kept coming back to buy stuff from you.

                    Even after slagging them off each time they do 🙂


                  • mosa

                    SABINE i love your shit … dont stop.
                    Give them hell.

                  • Wensleydale

                    If I knew where your shop was, I’d hang around outside as traumatised National voters emerged sobbing into their hankies. It’s nice to have it confirmed that the customer is not always right. Sometimes the customer is a whining self-absorbed git.

                • Hmmmm. We could make them pay a fair share of tax. Or nationalise the flogged off power companies. Or just make them look their grand kids in the eye while they explain how they voted for the young to be locked out of home ownership.

              • Bea Brown

                Sorry I hadn’t realised you were just spraying.

  5. Paul 5

    We have far too many pressing needs in the world to be blowing billions on the Olympic Games, which has morphed into a bloated corporate show, drowning in drugs and all about petty national rivalries.
    It appears to be a precursor to war rather than a chance to heal the world’s divides.
    It is a rich nation’s event.
    The Olympics has passed its use by date.


    • Ad 5.1

      As a career path, Olympic athlete is not a high public subsidy per person.

      But the evaluative ruler for the whole event itself would be:
      would the city have been better off or worse off in the long term if they hadn’t happened there?

      On the negative side: Toronto, Athens.

      On the meh side: Los Angeles, Moscow, Sydney

      On the positive side: Barcelona, London, Beijing, Seoul

  6. Paul 6

    A article well worth reading.
    Supports much of what cv has been posting.

    “Climate Change Activism: A Post-Mortem

    As I write these words, much of North America is sweltering under near-tropical heat and humidity. Parts of the Middle East have set all-time high temperatures for the Old World, coming within a few degrees of Death Valley’s global record. The melting of the Greenland ice cap has tripled in recent years, and reports from the arctic coast of Siberia describe vast swathes of tundra bubbling with methane as the permafrost underneath them melts in 80°F weather. Far to the south, seawater pours through the streets of Miami Beach whenever a high tide coincides with an onshore wind; the slowing of the Gulf Stream, as the ocean’s deep water circulation slows to a crawl, is causing seawater to pile up off the Atlantic coast of the US, amplifying the effect of sea level rise.

    All these things are harbingers of a profoundly troubled future. All of them were predicted, some in extensive detail, in the print and online literature of climate change activism over the last few decades. Not that long ago, huge protest marches and well-funded advocacy organizations demanded changes that would prevent these things from happening, and politicians mouthed slogans about stopping global warming in its tracks. Somehow, though, the marchers went off to do something else with their spare time, the advocacy organizations ended up preaching to a dwindling choir, and the politicians started using other slogans to distract the electorate.”


    • Ad 6.1

      Stop reading wrist-slitting melancholy. And stop encouraging others to do the same.

      Accept the world is going to end, as are we all, and still do good in the world.
      It’ll do wonders for your complexion.

      • weka 6.1.1

        Yeah the sun is going to explode eventually, we should give up now.

      • Paul 6.1.2

        I do good for other
        Yet I am not prepared to buy into the line that NZ is a paradise, as propagated by Hosking, Henry and you.

        • Mainlander

          No Paul you are a miserable cut & paste doomsayer, as Ad correctly alludes to, try going outside into that nasty climate you speak of so often, it might do you the world of good

          • Stuart Munro

            Ad Hom much? Explain the suicide rate asshole.

          • Reddelusion


          • Paul

            Isn’t the point of Open Mike to broach topics worthy of conversation?

          • reason

            …. and Mainlander comes from a long line of village idiots ….. giving stupid advice like a useless Dr Dill……

            Dr Ad is also sad …….. his advice …………. ignore whats bad.

            And sing ……………. sing …………. Always look on the bright side of life, de do de do de do………. “Life’s a Piece of Shit, When You Look at It.”

            It helped Brian…… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHPOzQzk9Qo

      • marty mars 6.1.3

        It is the opposite of melancholy – as you’d know if you bothered to read the article.

    • Colonial Viper 6.2

      Stop reading wrist-slitting melancholy. And stop encouraging others to do the same.

      i’ll tell you what wrist slitting melancholy is, it’s the message that all human beings are born sinners.

      Compared to that, the message of the Archdruid is one of outright positivity.

      By the way, wasn’t the end of the world going to come through fire, floods, pestilence that kind of thing? You don’t think that climate change may have a role to play in that?

  7. b waghorn 7

    lprent the replies aren’t working on my laptop its windows 10 but set up with google . I get them on the smarter than me phone though.

  8. SmallFurryAnimal 8

    “Hitlery” news today. (Think FACTA, but for blogs…I guess that would include this one given the US propensity for jumping geographic boundaries)


    • joe90 8.1

      Best you organise your bug-out pack, freeze dried tucker and gold so you’re good to go.

  9. SmallFurryAnimal 9

    @ real DonaldTrump thinks that democrats care about his opinion, how does it feel putting your stuff where it doesn’t belong ?

    @Hillary Clinton. Ask Bill.

    • Fake. Better right wing memes needed. #wrathofkhan

      • One Two 9.1.1

        Bill Clintons sexual ‘indescretions’ are no, meme

        They are a matter of record!

        You were boots n all into Assange, and straight out accused him of rape a number of times in articles and comments, yet edit, censor and shout down any suggestion about Bill Clintons rape accusations

        Why the glaring inconsistency?

        • te reo putake

          No inconsistency. It is not me that has accused Assange of rape, it’s the Swedish authorities. I just think he should face the charges and defend himself in court, like the rest of us have to when charged with offences. The supposed tweet does not exist. It’s made up. It is a gender based insult against Hillary Clinton, not Bill Clinton. And even if it were, Bill Clinton currently has no legal case to answer on his alleged behaviour, which is not the case for Assange, obviously. Your argument fails completely.

          • One Two

            Failure (of the hypocrisy test) is authoring articles such as ‘Broken’ while making excuses for swinging dicks like Bill Clinton

            Simultaneously claiming that Hillarys “lifetime of public service” mitigates the bribes taken from corporate america and the war crimes for which Hillary is, at best an accomplice

            Hillarys crimes against humanity (man/woman/environment) deserve no excuse or cover story, yet you have done exactly that in an overt way, using this site as the medium and moderating approach as tactics

            The complete bias toward Hillary is as ludicrous as your claims of “gender based insults”

            The gender based insult is Hillary Clinton herself!

            • te reo putake

              I’ve never made excuses for Bill Clinton. As I noted he’s not charged with anything and the one thing we do know about (Lewinsky) there is no excuse for. But that’s a moral argument, not a legal one, as far as I can tell. Two consenting adults etc. I’m in a good mood, so I’ll just point out that the current time off for lying about authors is a six week ban. And take it easy on telling me what I have or should not have written, OK?

              btw. if you don’t understand what a gender based insult is, just say so. Or google the term and educate yourself.

              • Colonial Viper

                Skolkovo Russian innovation centre flows funds to the Clinton Foundation

                Speaking of facts.

                As Schweizer continues, “soon, dozens of U.S. tech firms, including top Clinton Foundation donors like Google, Intel and Cisco, made major financial contributions to Skolkovo, with Cisco committing a cool $1 billion. In May 2010, the State Department facilitated a Moscow visit by 22 of the biggest names in U.S. venture capital—and weeks later the first memorandums of understanding were signed by Skolkovo and American companies…

                Of the 28 “partners,” 17, or 60%, have made financial commitments to the Clinton Foundation, totaling tens of millions of dollars, or sponsored speeches by Bill Clinton…

                Russians tied to Skolkovo also flowed funds to the Clinton Foundation. Andrey Vavilov, the chairman of SuperOx, which is part of Skolkovo’s nuclear-research cluster, donated between $10,000 and $25,000 (donations are reported in ranges, not exact amounts) to the Clinton’s family charity”

                Apparently no charges have been laid around how Sec State Clinton used her influence to flow funds to the Clinton Foundation so by your standards TRP, nothing to see here.

                (Except more of the same crony $$$ behaviour from Hillary Clinton while in office).


              • One Two

                The gender based insult is Hillary Clinton herself

                You can add Slick Willy and his pedo friends to the same list!

      • McFlock 9.1.2

        John Oliver speaks the truth.

        Damaged, sociopathic, narcissist.

        • Colonial Viper

          Speaking of sociopathic, did you see how Hillary Clinton leaped for joy on TV at Qaddafi’s brutalising and mob killing?

          That’s actual sociopathic, btw.

          • McFlock

            No, I did not see that, because you made it up.

            Whereas trump is so alien to the concept of empathy that “the simple presidential duty of comforting the families of fallen soldiers may actually be beyond his capabilities”.

            • One Two

              You people are damaged goods bro

              So very damaged and with such low levels of consciousnes

              • McFlock

                And yet all you had to do to demonstrate it was link to video of her “leaping for joy”.

                You don’t operate at any higher level of consciousness than I do. Your pretension is no substitute for intelligence.

    • mosa 9.2

      Thats Brilliant SFA.
      Bill still brings so much joy to a troubled world.

  10. Puckish Rogue 10


    Does the NY Post want Trump to win because this is only going to increase his popularity

    • The Murdoch owned NY Post supports Trump. These are desperate days for the Donald.

    • ianmac 10.2

      Yes PR. The Democrats should retaliate by publishing nudies of Hilary.

      • Puckish Rogue 10.2.1

        Lets not…

        I mean do they really think showing pictures of his hot wife from 20 years ago is going to hurt him?

        • Sabine

          considering that Mike Pence VP is the one who represents a very large swath of extremely conservative christian , yes it could.

          also consider this.
          what would the republican party have said if the man who fathered five children with three women would have been a Obama or b a women who had five children with three men?

          So will it hurt him with the ones that look at women as objects to be replaced when to old, or to be used as a trophy who does not smile nor speak, i don’t think so.

          but then there are over three hundred million in that country, It will be good fun till election time, here and there.

          • Puckish Rogue

            I think a lot of people will look at her and go “shes hot” (and sadly because of it vote Trump) and still more will think its not a good look for the NY Post and vote Trump out of sympathy

            Or not

            • Sabine

              as per below the ones who look as women as a thing that has to be hot yeah, they would vote and also props like masturbating over the first lady.

              however, she might be keenly aware that she can be dumped at any given moment like the previous mrs. trumps and be replaced with a 20 year younger model.

              personally i don’t care, she was a model and did as models do. However, being the ‘first lady’ of the moral, christan, no sex education, abstinence only, virgin brides, no sluts evangelic party this could cause a bit of a brain freeze for some of the more ‘fundamentalist’ christian voters;

              popcorn and vodka required for this season.

              • Puckish Rogue

                “personally i don’t care, she was a model and did as models do. However, being the ‘first lady’ of the moral, christan, no sex education, abstinence only, virgin brides, no sluts evangelic party this could cause a bit of a brain freeze for some of the more ‘fundamentalist’ christian voters;”

                Sure if Trump was running as a typical GOP candidate but Trumps a bit different so I don’t think it’ll hurt him, its more likely it’ll help

                Whatever happens at least it’ll be entertaining

    • ianmac 11.1

      Ugly Truth. The tape really confirms our worst fears about TPPA. And now if it is ratified by all, the world will shift forever. What will happen to my grandchildren?

      Funny that much of manufacturing, including that of USA and NZ, has shifted to China and yet Obama’s aim is to shut out China from the Pacific region.

      • UglyTruth 11.1.1

        The TPPA conforms to the general pattern of consolidation of political power in the hands of those with little motivation to act in the public interest. I’m optimistic that this pattern of behaviour will collapse and the future for new generations will be far brighter than what we know today.

        The US is apparently still wedded to the doctrine of full spectrum dominance, the military exercises in the East China Sea signify meaningful opposition to this IMO.

    • Garibaldi 11.2

      I want to see the Labour Party reject the TPPA outright. Imo if this is not done then there is no hope for us as a sovereign nation.

      • UglyTruth 11.2.1

        Real sovereignty isn’t the same an the political supremacy that the state calls sovereignty. There’s a massive paradigm shift involved in achieving sovereignty, Brexit was a good example of how steps can be taken.

    • GregJ 11.3


      Just a quick request – would you mind just putting in a short line of context when putting up a link? I personally don’t like clicking/selecting links without some idea of what it is I’m looking at. Thanks. 🙂

    • ianmac 12.1

      Seems just petty to me.

      • Anne 12.1.1

        I thought Nanaia Mahuta’s comments at the end of the interview were telling. She listed pieces of legislation passed by the NAct govt. which cut across the Treaty of Waitangi… yet we’ve not heard a peep out of the Maori Party.

        She also reminds us we already have our own Indigenous Rights Treaty and didn’t need to sign up to another one. Very good point.

        The Maori Party are being disingenuously spiteful and petty minded – as you say ianmac. They represent a small Maori elite and not the rest of the Maori populace. The sooner they’re gone the better.

        • BM

          Very colonialist of you Anne, knowing whats best for Maori.

          • te reo putake

            Actually, BM, what’s good for maori is good for all of us. And Anne is correct to point out that the maori party have done nothing of substance for the people they claim to represent since they were formed. Indeed, given the increase in negative stats for maori, it’s easily argued that they have helped harm maori as part of the NACT government.

            When I first saw the item, I did toy with the idea of writing a post. But, really, who cares what they say? Their actions (and inactions) speak louder than their words.

          • weka

            It’s not like you support Māori to define their own reality BM. The neoliberal agenda is beyong that.

        • weka

          Seems like legitimate reasons to me,

          Along with the contentious foreshore and seabed law in 2004, Ms Fox said there were other decisions by Miss Clark’s Labour government that cast doubt on what kind of Secretary-General she would be.

          “The Labour Party refused to sign the Declaration for the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, which is a part of the UN agenda.

          “The Labour Party in its time saw the Tuhoe raids and of course also there is the Foreshore and Seabed amendment which took the rights of Māori away to go to court.”

          I’d add to that ‘haters and wreckers’.

          Ms Fox said someone seeking the top role at the United Nations should be able to acknowledge their past mistakes and apologise for them.

          That seems to be the crix of it. If Clark still believes that she was right on all the things above, then it’s completely reasonable for Māori to not support her to the UN role.

          Te Tiriti is not a replacement for the Declaration for the Rights of Indigenous Peoples.

        • weka

          I thought Nanaia Mahuta’s comments at the end of the interview were telling. She listed pieces of legislation passed by the NAct govt. which cut across the Treaty of Waitangi… yet we’ve not heard a peep out of the Maori Party.

          She also reminds us we already have our own Indigenous Rights Treaty and didn’t need to sign up to another one. Very good point.

          I can’t see that (they might have removed it). If it’s still visible can you please cut and paste?

          • Karen

            Marama Fox had a very different view back in April when she backed Helen Clark.


            • Rosemary McDonald

              “But Maori party co-leader Marama Fox says that’s what happens when politicians have to choose between what’s right and what’s popular.”

              Or what fits the agenda of your political bedmates.

              Well spotted Karen.

              Marama, (and the rest of the Maori Party past and present)


              Lie down with dogs you get up with fleas.

              “The quote has a large almost universally agreed meaning of “You should be cautious of the company you keep. Associating with those of low reputation may not only lower your own but also lead you astray by the faulty assumptions, premises and data of the unscrupulous.””

              I’d also add…shit sticks.

              • weka

                Yeah, but let’s face it, the only choices they’ve had are National or Labour, both of whom have done pretty serious negative shit to Māori.

                Let’s also remember that the Māori Party may be part of forming the next left wing government. How will we deal with the shit then? Or would we prefer they went with National again?

                • Rosemary McDonald

                  “Māori Party may be part of forming the next left wing government.”

                  On what do you base that statement?

                  I’m not being argumentative here….but I just can’t ever see this happening.

                  • adam

                    The Māori party has a mandate from its people to be inside the tent. That is policy, so they will support who ever has a majority to get a seat at the table.

                    Now if the Māori party get 3-4 seats (a possibility) and Green/labour are the majority – then the Māori party will support them.

                    I actually think it’s quite smart of Marama to raise this as she has – it shows Māori, where labour are at. It also keeps alive the issues for Māori and keeps their issues front and centre, rather than floating in the ether.

                  • weka

                    Lots of people assume that the Māori Party are right wing, but I don’t think they are. Their primary political loyalty is to Māori. What reason is there that would stop them supporting a L/G government? Policy? History?

                    Plus what adam said.

                    • The Chairman

                      “Their primary political loyalty is to Māori”

                      Yet, race doesn’t determine ones political allegiance.

                      Therefore, how can political loyalty to a race represent their vast and varying political desires?

                    • weka

                      Why don’t you ask them*? That’s the point. In this instance, your views on how people form political allegiances are not that relevant compared to theirs.

                      *or failing that, just read/listen to what is in the public domain. Plenty of Māori talking about it, but you have to be willing to hear what they say.

                    • The Chairman

                      No, the point was I was asking you.

                      Moreover, you wrongly assume I don’t read/listen to what’s in the public domain.

                      I forewarned the Party would split long before it happened, for that very reason. People of one race don’t necessarily share the same political view or desires.

                    • weka

                      “People of one race don’t necessarily share the same political view or desires.”

                      Of course not, I haven’t said they did.

                    • The Chairman

                      “Of course not”

                      Indeed. Therefore, I’ll ask you again. How can political loyalty to a race genuinely represent the vast and varying political desires of said race?

                    • weka

                      I haven’t said that either, but feel free to have that conversation with yourself.

                    • The Chairman

                      “I haven’t said that either”

                      Not directly. However, At 1.37pm yesterday you stated lots of people assume that the Māori Party are right wing, but you don’t think they are, stating their primary political loyalty is to Māori.

                      Yet, you agree race doesn’t determine ones political allegiance, but concluded loyalty to their race somehow substituted a political positioning (i.e. left, right, centre).

                      Therefore, the line their primary political loyalty is to Māori is little more than feel good waffle. It means little in political reality.

                      A political Party can’t be solely loyal to a race, people of one race don’t necessarily share the same political view or desires. Its role requires it to take a political positioning on matters. thus loyalty to a race doesn’t substitute a political Party’s positioning.

                      Which, in case you missed it, was the point I was making.

                    • weka

                      Well done on finally saying what you think. But let’s be very clear that very little of that is related to my own views or comments. I really don’t like my politics misrepresented and you’re pretty close to doing that here. Please don’t do it again.

                    • The Chairman

                      Crikey! Settle down weka.

                      Your comments can often have indirect meaning, leaving your position on certain matters unclear. Which is why I initially questioned you (to establish what your position was) and later went on to point out to you how your comments can be misconceived.

                      Nonetheless, I’m still unclear what your position is. Where do you see the Māori Party sitting in the political spectrum?

              • YNWA

                Any chance John Key had anything to do with this?

            • Anne

              Oh dear… she doesn’t know whether she’s Arthur or Martha. 😀

            • Karen

              Just want to make it clear that I thought Helen Clark’s handling of the Seabed and Foreshore issue was appalling and easily the worst thing she ever did. I thought she had acknowledged that it was wrong and apologised but can’t remember where or when (except that it was after she was PM).

              Interesting to hear Andrew Little on Checkpoint last night say that as president of the Labour Party he opposed the Act but it was a parliamentary decision.

              I do think, however, Helen Clark would do more for indigenous rights than some of the other likely contenders for the post of UN Secretary-General.

            • weka

              Why did you post that link?

            • Anne

              weka @
              Sorry, weka I misread your comment. Nanaia made the remarks at the end of the embedded interview on RNZ – not the item itself.

          • adam

            Anne I’m going to call you on misrepresenting Nanaia on the issues of the Indigenous Rights Treaty. She did not say what you are saying. She was talking about caveats, which would restrain the Treaty of Waitangi.

            Funny, Nanaia did almost apology for the foreshore debacle, then she is almost falling over herself to defended the hard right knee jerk legislation labour passed as better than what we have. Sad.

            Dover is still bitter he lost his seat to the Maori party. So the irony is not lost on me with his bluster.

            Good on Marama being the fox amongst the chickens.

            • Rosemary McDonald

              “Good on Marama being the fox amongst the chickens.”

              I respect those who speak out according to their principals.

              But only if their principals are consistent…not changeable according to the political climate.

              noun: fox; plural noun: foxes
              a carnivorous mammal of the dog family with a pointed muzzle and bushy tail, proverbial for its cunning.
              synonyms: literaryReynard
              the fur of a fox.
              a cunning or sly person.
              “a wily old fox”
              NORTH AMERICANinformal
              a sexually attractive woman.
              verb: fox; 3rd person present: foxes; past tense: foxed; past participle: foxed; gerund or present participle: foxing
              baffle or deceive (someone).
              “the abbreviation foxed me completely”
              behave in a cunning or sly way.
              “to his mind everybody was dodging and foxing”

              Which definition fits Marama? (If we’re going to play on words.)

              • adam

                I’d say all of the above.

                If you are going to follow the wishes of your people, and be inside the tent. Then I’d hope she is/has a bit of each.

                But as for chickens – was my use a verb, or a noun? Or indeed both?

            • Anne

              I did not misrepresent Nanaia and I take offence at you saying so Adam. You are being obtuse and pedantic. I don’t give a f*** about the process the govt may have adopted re- legislation/regulations. The effect is still the same – to undermine the many disadvantaged Maori living on or below the minimum wage, or having their special rights eroded. That is what I took from Nanaia’s comments and she sure knows a darn sight more about the subject than you do.

              • adam

                You brought up the point to discredit Marama, I’m saying you got it wrong. If that is being obtuse and pedantic, then guilty as charged.

                This debate has nothing to do with the position of Māori, except that Māori have a differing opinion on Helen Clark.

                I mean claims of utu to treachery. Far out, from a few comments about the Treaty, and the foreshore.

                Nothing quite like those in the centre, and their ability to make a storm in a tea cup.

                • Anne

                  Māori have a differing opinion on Helen Clark.

                  Wrong. The “Maori Party” have a differing opinion, and its based on spite and petty political posturing.

                  Can’t understand why you’re standing up for them. They’re Nats in Maori guise. Have you changed you allegience and become a roaring Tory? 😮

                  • weka

                    Anne, I hope that you are not saying that all Māori have the same view on Clark other than the Māori Party.

                    How about addressing the points that adam raised?

                    Anne I’m going to call you on misrepresenting Nanaia on the issues of the Indigenous Rights Treaty. She did not say what you are saying. She was talking about caveats, which would restrain the Treaty of Waitangi.

                  • adam

                    Well I was hopeful you’d answer my question, but instead you came back with an ad hominem.

                    Ironic really, as the only media personality I see whose seething about Marama Fox and her comments is Paul Henry. Actually your comments have been pretty consistently in line with his.

                    Back to the question, I know I’m a sucker for punishment.

                    “Anne I’m going to call you on misrepresenting Nanaia on the issues of the Indigenous Rights Treaty. She did not say what you are saying. She was talking about caveats, which would restrain the Treaty of Waitangi.”

    • Typo of the day from a Herald headline:

      Dame Tariana Turia supports Helen Clark in her big to be United Nations Secretary General


      • Anne 12.2.1

        Typo aside, I retract my statements about Tariana Turia yesterday evening (I think) when this story broke. I was wrong. She has been able to move on from the F&S scandal and good on her for doing so.

    • Daveosaurus 12.3

      No surprise at all. It’s not without reason that I call that bunch the Kūpapa Party.

  11. Atiawa 13

    Since the introduction of compulsory voting in Australia in 1924, the turnout has never fallen below 90%. Voting, like compulsory education or jury service is a civil duty that cannot simply be ignored.
    Is there a brave enough political party that is prepared to insist that a referendum at the time of a General Election be held to allow voters the opportunity to decide upon compulsion versus voluntary voting?

    • fisiani 13.1

      Voting is not a civil duty. It is a civil right. Rights do not mean a duty. You have a right to stand for election, you do not have a duty to do so.
      Will the Left stoop to compulsion to get the missing million to vote? Many people choose not to vote. That is not the same as ignoring. Just because the majority want a National led government does not mean that we need to force people to cast their vote. Next you’ll be enticing them with KFC.

      • Sabine 13.1.1

        ohhhh, don’t want disenfranchiserd people going to the poll then now?

        let me put it differently,

        voting is a right that was fought for people who had no rights, and opposed by people that ‘held all the rights’ . You seem to be supporting the ones that opposed the universal rights to a vote.

        voting is a right and a duty. And why should it not be compulsory?

        • Bob

          Are you saying we should take away peoples rights to not vote in protest?

          • Sabine

            no i am saying that if voting would be compulsory it should include the option of
            NONE OF THE ABOVE
            cause protest.

      • Atiawa 13.1.2

        Yeah yeah yeah. Soon you’ll be saying that paying taxes is a civil right. Oh that’s right, you do.
        Because voting is a matter of secrecy, there is nothing to stop the voter from invalidating their vote.
        In the May 2005 UK elections, turnout varied significantly from 74.6% in Dorset West to 41.5% in Liverpool Riverside. By contrast, the turnout of all but 2 electorates in the Australian elections in October 2004 was over 90% – the exceptions were Kalgoorlie with 83.53% & Lingiari with 77.71%, both covering remote areas with transient populations -. ( Source; Tim Evans, Director Election Systems & Policy, Australian Electoral Commission 16 January 2016 ).

        • fisiani

          You have a right to not vote. It’s called democracy.

          • Atiawa

            ” There are many things that people do not wish to do and which they would not do if they were able to exercise “individual freedoms”, but which parliament has legislated to require. The role of parliament in a parliamentary democracy includes passing laws to ensure the effectiveness of that democratic system”.
            Source: Submission to JSCEM by the Australian Public Interest Advocacy Centre.

          • miravox

            “You have a right to not vote. It’s called democracy.”

            Wow. I can’t believe I almost agree with you. Now if we can tie that in with the right not to be disenfranchised, civics education and fair political funding, we might have a win.

      • Draco T Bastard 13.1.3

        Oh, look at that, a RWNJ arguing against personal responsibility.

        • Bob

          It’s a privilege not a responsibility, that’s where you are getting confused

          • Draco T Bastard

            No, it’s a responsibility. That’s how democracy works – people taking full responsibility for their governance.

    • b waghorn 13.2

      $50 to every one as they vote , with the option to either decline accepting it or donating it to one of 3 or 4 designated charities .

      • fisiani 13.2.1

        $50 KFC voucher surely.

        • b waghorn

          I would of thought one for the local bdsm club would be more to your taste, i’m sure if you’re nice they might even let you stroke a pony tail or two.

          • Sabine

            you sure are generous. but it does seem that fisiani has a thing for kfc. must be that secret spice ingredient.

            I would like to see obligatory voting, but then i would also like to see the option of “none of the above” added. If ‘none of the above’ wins, all parties have to go back to the drawing board and try harder.

            • b waghorn

              How much would it cost to chase all those people that can’t be bothered voting , then you fine them when you catch them, then they hate the system even more and some refuse to pay the fine so they get hounded and fined a
              bit more.
              Far better to make it a day off work and a and occasion .
              Make the likes of starship and kidscan recipients of the donated cash, and others can have a lunch out with the family or whatever. And those on poor street get a little bonus . What’s not to love?

              • Sabine

                I would not go and fine them, nor have i advocated it.

                but i do think that making it compulsory with education starting in the schools would not be too bad. You will always have those that will not play ball, but instead of fining them i would have them take say 5 lessons in school about – voting history, a world without voting, civic lessons and community politics and their importance.
                i think that would be a better approach. Punitive measures do not change behavior education does.

            • Draco T Bastard

              If ‘none of the above’ wins, all parties have to go back to the drawing board and try harder.

              It’s always been a concern of mine about the idea of ‘none of the above’ is what happens when a government isn’t chosen?

              This idea of leaving the caretaker government in place and holding another election is a possible option but it would probably have a lot of opposition due to the cost. It may be possible to overcome some of that opposition by going to online voting but even that has its nay-sayers.

  12. joe90 14

    Slip sliding away….

    Gallup has Trump as the first nom on record whose convention actually made people less likely to support him (36/51) pic.twitter.com/ySZEpOIPVG— Liam Donovan (@LPDonovan) August 1, 2016

    But what's prob more interesting is who the RNC moved- @ThePlumLineGS has the breakdown: https://t.co/WdXT1YyEUT pic.twitter.com/33cnJqdGUy— Liam Donovan (@LPDonovan) August 1, 2016

    In other words CLE just magnified Trump's existing issues. Turned on white men/WWC. Turned off white women/college grads, indies, young ppl.— Liam Donovan (@LPDonovan) August 1, 2016

    GallupMore/Less Likely to Support Trump Post-RNCWhite M +19Non-college whites +16——White F -7White BA/BS -12Indies -2618-29 -38— Liam Donovan (@LPDonovan) August 1, 2016

    edit: According to Nate Silver Clinton now has a better than 82% probability of winning.

    So sad.


  13. The Chairman 15

    “Although I personally believe Richard has done a good job to date for the Council and the city…I nevertheless do not believe that any manager in a public (or private for that matter) enterprise should be paid over 11 times the salary of the lowest paid worker in that organisation,” Macpherson said.

    He believed the council should prioritise a Living Wage minimum of $20 per hour for council staff, before increasing the chief executive’s take home pay by $50,000.



    • Colonial Viper 15.1

      Bureaucratic managerial class slapping itself on the back with obscene amounts of money, deluding themselves that they are supermen who are ‘worth it’.

      • The Chairman 15.1.1

        While robbing low income workers of the ability to own a home.

        With house prices skyrocketing, one would assume increasing low incomes would be part of the solution.

    • save nz 15.2

      Oh, that’s just trickle down, there Chairman.

      $50,000 to me, “thinking” about prioritising a living wage to you. Ok right can’t afford to pay the living wage but how about another pay rise for me for my efforts of thinking about you, cos we are in a democracy and all? Plus these councils have to spend a fortune on PR now, to make sure the rate payers know that the councillors are doing such a great job.

      Of course pay is bench marked to what others in the same sector get, not what they actually do or should be paid. Anti performance pay – where you get a pay rise because you have to keep up with others at the same role in the trough of neoliberalism.

      • The Chairman 15.2.1

        Rebalancing incomes is part of the required solution. Benchmarking needs to be revised to help address this.

        Not only is it holding people back, the negative consequence is also the impact on consumer demand (thus, business returns) and growing household debt.

        Unfortunately, National doesn’t seem to acknowledge the role they play in growing inequality, nor seemingly, does this council.

    • weston 15.3

      Fuck that were constantly told that paying people peanuts gets you monkeys but if you ask me the opposite is true i think you could sack a huge number of vastly overpaid ceo.s put the job back up on the notice board at a third of the pay and find plenty of people who could do the job much better .And most definately have the base rate of the lowest payed workers at at least 20 bucks an hour .

  14. Tiger Mountain 16

    oh the hot tears at bedtime if the Mana and Māori parties co-operate in the Māori electorates and win back a few seats

    there could be a Labour led government right now if Labour had not campaigned against Internet Mana (yes in unison with all the other parties, but Labour put special effort in also to assist Kelvin) and torpedoed Hone in Te Tai Tokerau

    • The Chairman 16.1

      When I suggested on here that Hone should accept Labour’s open offer to join them and the Greens to overturn the Government, it was suggested to me the offer was only open to those already in parliament. Implying Labour and the Greens would rather work with the Maori Party, than with Mana. Go figure?

      • Sabine 16.1.1

        i have never heard of that. hmmm, personally i would like to think that anyone that wants to join should do so.
        hmm, now i must ask da labour man about that.

      • save nz 16.1.2

        For the sake of the country Hone and Labour need to get together and have a truce.

        National have screwed Maori more than Labour!

        And Labour should apologise for going against Mana. It was crazy politics, pure and simple. Who knows why they did it?? I just think there is a lot of manipulation from the Natz on Labour and Greens and clearly The Maori party is under their spell too.

        Maybe Hone is hard to work with, who knows what to believe, but he has much better ideas for poverty and change for Maori than any one else.

        I think the dream team is a mix of Labour, Greens, NZ First and Mana. That is who I would like to see in government with the majority. They are all better together in policy than individually as they cancel out the weird bits (spying and luke warm TPP from Labour would hopefully be cancelled out by the other three, more taxes on the middle class would hopefully be cancelled out by NZ First, etc, hopefully they start to think about creating well paid jobs internally with local people rather than shipping in cheap workers etc, education would start to be about education rather than foreign fees, they get rail working, they stop privatising everything, they have responsible relationships with China, Australia, US and EU, not losing all our rights like John Key is doing for less and cheaper milk powder sales.

    • weka 16.2

      there could be a Labour led government right now if Labour had not campaigned against Internet Mana (yes in unison with all the other parties, but Labour put special effort in also to assist Kelvin) and torpedoed Hone in Te Tai Tokerau

      How so? Can you post the maths to demonstrate that?

  15. joe90 17

    [rant on]

    We have a bloke in our community with a not so proud past of violent offending, although AFAIK not against women or children, and he’s done some quite serious time for his crimes. For many many years this bloke has stayed out of the limelight and out of trouble – until recently.

    The bloke lost the plot and did something mightily stupid and potentially fatal to the public, the law responded and he did such a marvelous job of barricading himself inside his home he required assistance to get himself out and was duly carted off to the cells. Meanwhile, local dog control officers arrived supposedly to deal with the bloke’s three dogs and were told by the law to corral the animals in the back yard.

    The attending plods knew the bloke well and were well aware of the part the dogs played in keeping him on the straight and narrow, knew he couldn’t afford any extra cost and knew arrangements would be made for their care until a permanent solution was found.

    But no, the fucking arsehole control officers took the blokes dogs, impounded them and three days later and off their own bat, euthanised all three.

    The bloke is distraught, the attending plods on the day knowing how the death of his dogs will affect the bloke are incensed and locals and other dog owners who know the bloke are infuriated. Added to the mix is the sneaking suspicion the fucking jobsworth who ordered the dogs be killed acted with malice toward the bloke. And they’ll get away with their actions because law and order and the bloke has neither the wherewithal nor skills to follow up.


    [rant off]

    • Sabine 17.1

      there is an fb page where people are happy to raise funds to help release impounded dogs. https://www.facebook.com/fundraisingforimpoundeddogs/?fref=ts
      Usually dogs are held for seven days before being put to sleep or given up for adoption.
      three days is not on order.
      Have you thought of putting through an official complaint to the council, and also it may help going public.
      The pound workers are already having a hard time, what with homeless dogs everywhere cause their peeps can not find pet friendly rentals, and the pound workers that i encountered (i iz a serial adopter of old pooches) absolutely hate putting down healthy friendly dogs.

      this sucks. Lodge a protests with the council together with the others on his behalf.
      Dogs sometimes escape or run away and get impounded, the least we want to know for sure is how long a pound would hold the animal before either killing it or giving it up for adoption.

    • weston 17.2

      Which council was this joe90 ?

  16. joe90 18


    Scumbag Millionaire

    Belittle Women

    Nudie and the Beast

    33,000 thousand emails under the sea

    Honey, I deported the Kids

    A weekend at Putin’s

    etc etc…


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