Open Mike 02/10/2017

87 comments on “Open Mike 02/10/2017 ”

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1. cleangreen 1

   2 October 2017 at 6:41 am

   Today National are claiming ballot box tampering is occurring now !!!!!!

   They are so desperate for power they will invent anything at all now!!!!!

   So the Labour, Green. NZ First coalition is the best option now to save our country.

   We need to sack the corrupt Government now.

   National are now watching their “career dissapation light” deminish inside their eye now, as the reality of MMP sets in.

   “old father time” has caught up with them finally.

   They couldn’t have got away with their wanton stealing of all our public assets, and the selloff’s forever could they?
   • alwyn 1.1

     2 October 2017 at 10:12 am

     “National are claiming ballot box tampering”.
     If you are going to make such an incredibly serious thing can you please provide a reference. I want to see who is claiming this and exactly what they are saying.
     • mac1 1.1.1

       2 October 2017 at 11:01 am

       I suspect this is a reference to LInkwater polling station in the Kaikoura electorate where 123 votes were falsely attributed to the Maori Party by clerical error. The locals all knew about the predominance of National voters in the area and questions were raised. All a minor weather event in a drinking vessel, really.

       https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/97402483/the-small-rural-township-that-stood-up-and-was-counted–wrongly?cid=edm:stuff:marlboroughexpress&bid=371546290
       • alwyn 1.1.1.1

         2 October 2017 at 11:32 am

         Thanks.
         Hardly the story that our “cleangreen” friend was spouting is it?
         “so desperate for power they will invent anything”
         What utter rubbish, if that is all his(her) wild hyperbole is based on.
         And half a dozen exclamation marks after each sentence!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.
         • Frida 1.1.1.1.1

           3 October 2017 at 1:44 pm

           Some of the more rabid and unhinged of your ilk Alwyn….https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2017/10/data_entry_error_is_not_good_enough.html#comments
           • alwyn 1.1.1.1.1.1

             4 October 2017 at 11:50 am

             Yes they were getting a rather extreme set of reactions weren’t they?
             Accidents happen and it is very easy to do something like that in the haste of the count on the night I should say. The critical bit is getting it right before the final results are announced.

             I was once Returning Officer in a University Students Association election.
             Long, long ago.
             Someone accidentally put a set of 100 votes on the wrong pile while doing the count. It was spotted before the results were announced luckily as I would have had to go back and announce a different winner later on.
2. eco maori 2

   2 October 2017 at 7:39 am

   Those idiots national don’t get It . It’s the people it’s the people it’s the people.
   When all our people get a fair share of OUR resources everyone benefits our sports stadiums full up all eCommerce flourishes all our bad stats will be reversed a healthy happy population is a must . No winning Sports team under funds its health programs or keeps all the money in managements pockets if you find a winning team that behaves like national and wins . YEA RIGHT never going to happen .Its the people that make a good economy not just money. One just has to cast the eyes across our World and see these country’s with large populations and a small resource base and they are flourishing because they no that happy healthy people = happy healthy economy the trick for the Coalition is to change thing and keep everyone happy ,
   What I don’t get is we run computer models to predict the weather we run computation models to predict lots of things so what’s so why don’t we have computation models to give us in site on what is the best way to run a country’s economy and Government systems is it because some people don’t want this information out in the public hands because the most positive out comes are a total reverse OF THE BULLSHIT POLICY’S THAT THE neo liberals AROUND OUR WORLD ARE RAMMING DOWN OUR THROATS .Well even a uneducated broke ass Maori like me can see this. You all no that im a kiwi to Ka Pai
   • Andre 2.1

     2 October 2017 at 9:03 am

     There’s lots of economic computational modelling being done. It’s just a lot less reliable than weather modelling for a very simple reason.

     All computational models need equations to relate how different variable interact with each other.

     For weather models, those equations are based on physics, with just a few empirically derived relations from observations and historical data where the physics theory isn’t yet sufficiently complete.

     For most economic models, those equations are mostly from assumptions about human behaviour. Since they are assumptions, they are heavily influenced by the political worldview of whoever is making the assumptions.
     • Draco T Bastard 2.1.1

       2 October 2017 at 2:09 pm

       Most scientific theories have assumptions. Even the physical modelling of the climate has assumptions. We simply don’t know everything and throw in an assumption. That said, scientific assumptions are usually backed by logic. In other words, the scientists have a reason for the assumptions that they use.

       The problem with the assumptions used in economics is that they date back to Ricardo and further. Now, Ricardo and other economists of the time knew that they were assumptions and that they could be wrong. They expected that the assumptions that they used would be researched and the missing information filled in.

       This hasn’t happened and the economics ‘profession’ is still using those same assumptions despite the fact that many have been proved wrong in other fields of study. It’s why I keep posting this video:
       • eco maori 2.1.1.1

         2 October 2017 at 5:36 pm

         I say we should have modern computation models built as if one was using old info or technology to operate a organization now it would go broke.
         Thanks you did confirm my assumption that there is political interference with all of our data
         • Once was Tim 2.1.1.1.1

           2 October 2017 at 6:06 pm

           Don’t get all conspiratorial though @ eco Maori.
           Some of it is just muppets running things. Some of it is intentional underfunding or down to cronyism.
           THe Electoral Commission will be having a debrief apparently.
           When they do, no doubt the reason for 123 Natzi votes attributed to their (once was Mary Party – going forward) will emerge.
           Then there’ll be a ‘how come?’ married couple people with PR showed up with both sets of parents in tow demanding to vote (the 4 unable to speak a word of English or Te Reo) …. as well as it being acceptable for ballot boxes being taken home (rather than perhaps locking them up in the local Police Cell).
           Well ….. maybe we should be getting concerned at muppets running things but I think it’s still down to idiocy rather than intent (going forward). Give them a pay rise maybe – and shift them sideways (preferably off a fucking cliff)
           • Once was Tim 2.1.1.1.1.1

             2 October 2017 at 6:11 pm

             Actually….. it could be a PPP toll cliff – we could tax them on the way down.
             A win win! They’d pay their debt to sussoighty, realise that with roights cum responsibilities, but if not …… whooooar
     • SpaceMonkey 2.1.2

       2 October 2017 at 9:40 pm

       But whether human behaviour is considered at all is dependent on the branch of economics you are following. The neo-liberal economists like to think that economics is a science that can be reduced to formulas, algorithms and derivatives. People, beyond being consumers of mostly crap, have no other economic reason to exist.
3. Carolyn_nth 3

   2 October 2017 at 8:53 am

   From Newsroom – updated 2 hours ago:

   The truth about National Party priorities on health and housing – killing young Kiwis before their time:

   The biggest home owner in New Zealand, the state-owned Housing New Zealand Corp, has revealed it spent 52 times more last year hunting for the tiniest trace elements of a harmless contaminant than it spent looking for mould and asbestos, which kill dozens of children each year.

   Figures released under the Official Information Act by Housing NZ show it spent $51.9 million on testing and remediation of meth on its properties in the last financial year, up from $21 million the previous year. Last year’s spending represented 10 percent of its entire annual maintenance and improvement budget, or the equivalent of an average of $8,000 per property. However, in the 2016 financial year, it spent only $433,623 on the testing and remediation of mould and $639,873 on asbestos.
   • Psycho Milt 3.1

     2 October 2017 at 8:58 am

     Those meth testing guys must have the most awesome fucking lobbyists on the planet. Either that, or the current government has an interest in demonising the poor and finding ways to weasel out of its housing responsibilities – but it couldn’t possibly be that, could it? Must be just some awe-inspiring lobbying skills by the meth-testing industry…
     • eco maori 3.1.1

       2 October 2017 at 5:41 pm

       Another sham by national and this one is the tip of the iceberg
     • North 3.1.2

       2 October 2017 at 9:16 pm

       Probably agree with you re Cleangreen’s excited lurch there Alwyn but what I’m smelling more particularly from you is utter terror…….the superiority and entitlement of a decade turned into smelly old chocolate pooling at your feet. Trashy bogan Paula would be very unpleasant to be around right now…….
   • The Chairman 3.2

     2 October 2017 at 12:13 pm

     Thanks for highlighting this, Carolyn.

     From your link

     “NZ Drug Foundation president Ross Bell said the science does not back up the need for such an industry and it has played on the fears of New Zealand people in order to make a profit.

     “More concerning, he said the Government has fallen for these scare tactics and created new standards and an Act amendment, currently before a select committee, which will unjustifiably perpetuate this culture of fear.

     “He called the meth testing and remediation industry ‘the biggest scam this country has ever seen'”
   • The Chairman 3.3

     2 October 2017 at 12:24 pm

     The question now is, will Labour overturn this if they attain power?
   • Draco T Bastard 3.4

     2 October 2017 at 2:11 pm

     Could have built 500+ houses and given them away for that $52m. Would have produced better social and economic outcomes.
4. Psycho Milt 4

   2 October 2017 at 9:07 am

   From Stuff: new Kapiti Expressway “Road of National Significance” already needs resealing.

   But only the inside lanes, mind. Wonder why that is.

   Back in the early ’90s, I drove some German friends from Berlin to Dresden. Being not long after re-unification, the Autobahn was still pretty much as Hitler built it. They got me to drive in the fast lane, because the slow lane was incredibly corrugated and potholed. I tried driving in it to see if they were bullshitting me and it was so horrible I got back in the fast lane within a few hundred meters. “40 years of heavily-laden trucks heading east,” said Detlef. “But don’t worry, we’ll be able to drive in the right lane on the way back – the trucks always returned empty.”

   Unfortunately for NZ, the trucks are heavily-laden in both directions.
   • The Chairman 4.1

     2 October 2017 at 11:30 am

     From leaky homes to leaky roads.
     • Draco T Bastard 4.1.1

       2 October 2017 at 2:15 pm

       Declining standards and cheap builds up against increased use.

       The result is predictable shortened lifespan of the infrastructure.
       • Incognito 4.1.1.1

         2 October 2017 at 2:53 pm

         If you want to keep your job you should do a mediocre job 😉
5. joe90 5

   2 October 2017 at 9:16 am

   WTF is this?

   Tariana Turia thinks homelessness hasn’t got worse over the last 9 years. Says homeless people aren’t the Govt's responsibility. @maraetv— Jackal (@Jackalblog) September 30, 2017
   • The Chairman 5.1

     2 October 2017 at 11:28 am

     Showing her true colours.
     • North 5.1.1

       2 October 2017 at 9:19 pm

       Yeah……Toryana Torya. Sad fraud.
   • Wensleydale 5.2

     2 October 2017 at 12:08 pm

     Pre-senile dementia?
   • tc 5.3

     2 October 2017 at 1:11 pm

     100% Pure spin and head in the sand all at the same time.

     Of course it all looks fine sitting atop the Whanau Ora trough National provided from the Health Budget for her party.

     Her enabling of NACT as leader of the MP makes her, Flavell, Sharples and what followed, such as the the self serving Marama Fox, directly culpable. Only Hone can hold his head high as he called them for what they are and walked away.
     • Anne 5.3.1

       2 October 2017 at 10:04 pm

       I have never forgotten Peter Sharples’ comment some years ago when he was Minister of Maori Affairs. He was (iirc) contemplating the possibility he might lose his seat at the next election (must have been 2011) and he said in an interview he would be in big trouble if he lost because he’d just bought a larger home and he needed his ministerial salary to pay off the mortgage.

       That said it all for me.
6. Ad 6

   2 October 2017 at 9:25 am

   I’m all for referenda, I mean hey something binding like an election would have made Syria a bit easier. Even something dumbly non-binding like the Australian gay marriage one has at least some civil purpose, if you squint. And seriously the Spanish federal police acting at the direction of the Spanish government on purely political direction is deeply corrupt.:

   https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/oct/01/dozens-injured-as-riot-police-storm-catalan-ref-polling-stations

   But I would not want Europe to split into further pointless factions. We went through that with the rump Yugoslavia in the 1990s and it is a vortex of puirity and ethnic cleanising for which there is no limiting principle and therefore no end, only blood and destruction. Not to mention the impending chaos of Brexit.

   The Catalan government is walking into a trap that can be cured by actual region-to-state diplomacy rather than orchestrating its population into foolish separatism achieving nothing except the polished egos of a few.
   • Bill 6.1

     2 October 2017 at 11:22 am

     Where you getting this idea that people merely seeking greater levels of accountability/empowerment are spiteful and hateful little beasties Ad? And where’s this idea that people seeking a greater level of civic identity have to be “orchestrated” coming from?

     I’d guess you to be one of these people who watch Hollywood “end of the world” movies who actually and uncritically accepts the “nasty, brutish and short” sub-narrative that casts the working class (variously) as zombies/cannibals/tooled up misanthropes “out to get” the valiant middle class – the worthy survivors and sole suppositories of civilisation’s knowledge and hope. 🙄
     • Ad 6.1.1

       2 October 2017 at 11:30 am

       Might want to re-read the first paragraph of the comment. It’s better than guessing.
       • Bill 6.1.1.1

         2 October 2017 at 11:50 am

         Your first para is essentially an adherence dominant narratives.

         An aside. There have been elections in Syria (maybe you missed them under all the bullshit “prop on a spoon” that was coming our way?)

         You have some criticism of the actions of the Spanish state that you then excuse by appealing to some notion of a “greater good” (that resides in a centralised and rather far reaching nexus of institutional power) protecting us from ….well, some realisation or reification of a rather dim and fearful view of ourselves.
         • McFlock 6.1.1.1.1

           2 October 2017 at 11:59 am

           I suspect the fear isn’t so much “ourselves” as “Russia”.

           edit:… which seems to be expanding and improving on British foreign policy objectives
           • Bill 6.1.1.1.1.1

             2 October 2017 at 12:38 pm

             Aw ffs McFlock. You really want to peddle the “it’s the Russians! the Russians is coming!!” bullshit!!!?

             Hmm – you heard the one about the Hollywood director, the actor and the embittered politician?

             I guess you’ll be telling me to stop laughing and take it seriously 🙄
             • McFlock …

               2 October 2017 at 1:01 pm

               No, not “the Russians are coming”.
               No T-90 tanks outside the bull ring.

               Simply that a destabilised and fractured Europe is a Russian foreign policy objective, in order to gain piecemeal diplomatic leverage over Western Europe and to exercise direct political/military control over portions of Eastern Europe.
               • Bill …

                 2 October 2017 at 1:17 pm

                 Really?

                 And here was me thinking that vast swathes of Eastern Europe had been pulled into an EU and/or NATO orbit, and that the US had more military bases in Europe than could shake a stick at…and some nuclear shit too…alongside a more or less free pass when it comes to promoting it’s political, cultural and economic norms throughout Europe.

                 But no. Seems I’m imagining stuff and there’s not nuffin to see there. Not a fing.
                 • McFlock …

                   2 October 2017 at 1:31 pm

                   “Applied for membership” apparently equals “pulled into an EU and/or NATO orbit”.

                   As opposed to Russian tanks.
                   • Bill …

                     2 October 2017 at 4:28 pm

                     Well no. Not as “opposed to Russian tanks”. And we all know societal elites and governments reflect the will of populaces and make decisions accordingly, aye? 😉
                   • In Vino …

                     2 October 2017 at 5:04 pm

                     Hmmm… Has the West been guilty of fostering unrest in Eastern Europe? Could this be retribution? Or could people be seeing phantoms? I suspect that this is part of the legacy of Franco’s victory and subsequent style of government.
                   • McFlock …

                     2 October 2017 at 5:20 pm

                     I suspect that it’s both a legacy of Franco’s victory and heartily encouraged by Putin. A less coherent Europe provides a less coordinated response to Russian military expansionism into its bordering nations.

                     And bill – yeah, definitely “as opposed to Russian tanks”. Russian troops have an interesting habit of crossing Russian borders. Starting in Chechnya in the 1990s.
                   • Bill …

                     2 October 2017 at 5:48 pm

                     Sure thing McFlock.

                     The peoples of Catalonia, who have been seeking greater autonomy since “whenever”, are just idiotic or witless agents of Morgan ‘Friedbrain’ Freeman’s Putin – just like the peoples of Scotland and Wales and Ireland and any other people who might seek measures of self governance.

                     Nek minute you’ll be saying that any thoughts around tino rangatiratanga are being melded by Evil Ruskies (capital E, capital R) …kinda like how any socialist was under the hypnotic sway of The Kremlin (capital T capital K) throughout the periods of the Red Scares (capital R, capital S)

                     If only they’d stop clicking into all that Russian social media stuff that’s egging them on, eh?

                     You should visit Europe. Seriously. Maybe even talk to ordinary Europeans. Report back on their sense of foreboding or fear with regards Russia. (I know, I know. They know not what they truly think because “Evil Putin and social media”)

                     f.f.s.
                   • McFlock …

                     2 October 2017 at 6:05 pm

                     oh, ffs.

                     There you go again: nowhere have I said that Catalan independence shouldn’t be entertained or considered.

                     You stated that the fear of decentralisation was due to some fear about whateverthefuckyou’reon.

                     My response was that a very strong argument for keeping a federalised nation-state system in Europe inside a centralised European organisation was the fact that Russia has upped its expansionist position in the last ten or fifteen years, and a key part of preventing this piecemeal expansion is to have a coordinated european response.

                     Nato and europe are expanding westwards because the countries bordering Russia fear invasion, see better trade opportunities in Europe, and request membership. Funnily enough, countries and regions seem to request to join Russia only after they’ve had leaders poisoned and Russian-speaking troops set up the polling stations.

                     As for the Catalans, fair cop to them. But don’t be surprised if a major purchaser of pro-independence social media ads is the russian foreign ministry, because western European discord helps their foreign policy objectives.
                   • reason …

                     2 October 2017 at 7:00 pm

                     U.S.A tanks bring freedom ….. and are the recommended tool for dealing with Palestinian children throwing stones https://s14-eu5.ixquick.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.pinimg.com%2F736x%2F49%2F61%2F7b%2F49617b2af30f70729dd5f65026d69d94–david-and-goliath-palestine.jpg&sp=e7a43796171b9708ee367bd0363ce1d8

                     Russians fight terrorists …. the sort Cameron, May etc support ….. Isis/Al-nusrade Al Qaeda flavored demonocracy

                     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQZZtgu3pGg
                   • McFlock …

                     2 October 2017 at 7:13 pm

                     that’s nice, reason.

                     Question: Israel’s in Europe now?

                     Another q: that looks like a cool video – is it a trailer for the next Assassin’s Creed game?
                   • In Vino …

                     2 October 2017 at 7:57 pm

                     Actually, I suspect that the USA doesn’t want an over-powerful Europe either. I trust nobody!!
                   • McFlock …

                     2 October 2017 at 9:05 pm

                     The US was previously wanting a weak Europe rubberstamping “NATO” (i.e. US) decisions, but now wants the rep of making it rain but without actually throwing cash around the club – in fact sitting down and splitting the bill strictly according to what everybody ordered. Yeah, THAT guy in the party when everyone orders pizza…

                     US foreign policy in the age of trump.
         • Ad 6.1.1.1.2

           2 October 2017 at 12:55 pm

           What I committed to in the first place was democratic responsiveness.

           Your aside is pointless. Fresh elections are required in Syria.

           The “greater good” argument is the same sad slippery slope I have seen multiple times, with no limiting principle. It goes like this:

           1. Area A is richer than the rest of the place it belongs to.

           2. Area A therefore pays more tax. (According to 2014 figures, Catalonia paid E9.89 more into Spain’s tax authorities than it received in spending – the equivalent of 5% of its GDP.)

           3. Area A feels unfairly treated, and a little political movement is formed to achieve this, which brings in all sorts of mythic shit about their essential essentialness.

           4. Everyone in the rest of the area knows it’s pure code for fuck the poor everywhere else so the rich area stays rich.

           5. Civil war ensues, and no one but the arms suppliers gets any richer.
           • Bill 6.1.1.1.2.1

             2 October 2017 at 1:07 pm

             I’m going to go out on a limb and suggest that Syrians can determine their own internal political processes without our ‘wise council’.

             But anyway. You want to turn the tables around on what was being referenced as “the greater good”?

             Okay.

             How long has it been that Catalonia has sought greater autonomy? What’s the history and reasoning?

             And then, what about the Basque region? (It a richer area of France and Spain than other areas of those countries, is it?)

             Scotland and/or Wales are imbued with all sorts of mythic shit about their essential essentialness are they?

             Your “Area A” argument is entirely contrived and hardly representative. How could it be ffs, unless reality is that only wealthier regions seek political/cultural autonomy, and that all desire for political/cultural autonomy is driven solely by economic considerations.
             • Psycho Milt …

               2 October 2017 at 1:40 pm

               I’m going to go out on a limb and suggest that Syrians can determine their own internal political processes without our ‘wise council’.

               They did have a go at it, but discovered that totalitarian dictatorships have their own means of determining political processes, means that are highly unpleasant but also very effective. True enough that no amount of ‘wise counsel’ on our part can assist them though.
               • Bill …

                 2 October 2017 at 4:14 pm

                 The Baathist government ceded every demand made of it (multi-party elections, freeing of prisoners etc).

                 Can you name a demand they didn’t attempt to satisfy?

                 Oh. That’s right. You simply don’t get that the bullshit in Syria has its roots in the somewhat historical conflict between the secularism of Arab “state socialism” (‘orrible oxymoron) and the religious extremism that some Shia Muslims indulge in.

                 It’s all “bad Assad regime” and “noble, freedom loving rebels”…just as the BBC, NBC, CNN, ABC and all the rest of the alphabet soup media keep saying.
                 • Psycho Milt …

                   2 October 2017 at 5:46 pm

                   I seem to recall Assad responding to protests with snipers and to the Arab Spring in general with the comment “Reform is not a seasonal issue,” but no doubt his party’s official version of events does indeed describe it acceding to every demand made by the protesters.

                   It’s certainly true that I “don’t get” how you can pretend a guy who inherited the country from his dad and maintains his rule via a massive police state and extensively skilled and experienced torturers is some kind of democratically-elected leader. But don’t fret, I also have no desire to “get” whatever it is that results in that mindset.
                   • Bill …

                     2 October 2017 at 6:04 pm

                     I recall that propaganda too PM. Seems the difference between us is that I questioned it and wondered at the numbers of dead police officers who had been shot off the back of supposedly peaceful protests. I admit, I had the whole Venezuelan coup scenario sitting at the back of my mind. Remember that? Remember who the snipers killing protesters were in that instance?

                     Anyway. You have no example of a demand not responded to in a positive fashion.

                     Assad didn’t inherit. He had to have the nod from the Baathist party apparatus. Not hugely democratic at all, but not ‘inheritance’ like Queeny following Georgie aye?

                     And now all elections are contested and the general populace has a vote – just like here.

                     Shia radicalism, that’s implacably opposed to anything that might be considered as a western notion of secularism (and by extension anything Baathist or socialist or state driven) – that I thought you were against (don’t you keep referring to Islamofascists?) – is the reason the Syrian state developed a huge and fucked up security apparatus.

                     You think it was developed “just ’cause”?
                   • Psycho Milt …

                     2 October 2017 at 6:53 pm

                     As usual, the rabbit hole goes way further down than I’m willing to follow.
             • Ad …

               2 October 2017 at 2:32 pm

               You are out on a very, very, long and thin limb if you think Syria doesn’t need elections and won’t need help with ensuring they are free and fair.

               As to your questions, it goes roughly like this:
               It started way back, but they started getting really itchy about the same time Portugal had a war for proper independence from Spain in the 1730s under King Philip III. All about tax and preserving the existence of an independent nobility.

               The independence impulse was repressed under Franco.

               They got pretty substantial autonomy under the 1978 constitution.

               They got even more in a 2006 statute, but Spain’s constitutional court reversed that.

               Most of Spain’s economy has been shit since the GFC, but the north-east less so due to massive tourism.

               Cultural considerations in Catalonia are a code – as they usually are – for protecting wealth, class, and tax.
               • mauī …

                 2 October 2017 at 3:58 pm

                 I guess Syria needs elections like Iraq and Afghanistan needed the western “democratic” invasions in 2001 and 2003 eh?
               • Bill …

                 2 October 2017 at 4:18 pm

                 You are out on a very, very, long and thin limb if you think Syria doesn’t need elections and won’t need help with ensuring they are free and fair.

                 I’m not on that limb. There have been free and fair elections in Syria and further ones are scheduled when current terms expire….just like as in other countries that hold multi-party parliamentary elections and/or contested presidential elections.
                 • McFlock …

                   2 October 2017 at 6:09 pm

                   Further free and fair elections have been scheduled, and the ballot forms have already filled in /sarc
   • Draco T Bastard 6.2

     2 October 2017 at 2:22 pm

     I’m all for referenda, I mean hey something binding like an election would have made Syria a bit easier.

     You mean like the one that was held and the rebels tried to prevent by killing people?

     If Catalan want to be their own separate nation then we should be supporting them in that – not condemning them for it.
     • Ad 6.2.1

       2 October 2017 at 2:33 pm

       If you thought that was free and fair as an election I have a bridge in Brooklyn for sale.

       This is supremely the wrong time to start splitting further parts of Europe up further. Works great on tv getting sympathy. But that’s not where the work needs to be.

       They need an argument about tax redistribution across Spain.
       • Draco T Bastard 6.2.1.1

         2 October 2017 at 3:15 pm

         If you thought that was free and fair as an election I have a bridge in Brooklyn for sale.

         Not really but it appears to have been the West supported rebels that caused the problems.
         • Bill 6.2.1.1.1

           2 October 2017 at 4:23 pm

           Not really but it appears to have been the West supported rebels that caused the problems.

           Not to mention that Syrian embassies were shut down by numerous countries, meaning that Syrians within those countries couldn’t vote.

           edit – and that’s “western supported Jihadists” – not “rebels”. (“Funny” how every fighter willingly picking up arms and fighting against the Syrian Arab Army is Shia, no?)
       • adam 6.2.1.2

         2 October 2017 at 7:56 pm

         Your position is in support the police violence and shooting in Catalonia, because it’s about a united Europe? Is that it Ad?

         Some Utopian Beige world you live in mate, if you think violence is the answer to anything.

         Edit:

         Take 5 minutes to have a look on line at all the police brutality. And God Bless the Catalonia Fire Brigade.
7. Whispering Kate 7

   2 October 2017 at 9:28 am

   I saw this morning Teuila Blakely on the AM Show voted for Winstone Peters and prefers a National/NZ First coalition.

   Considering she never has her eyes on the road and she distracts driver’s from having their eyes on the road – does this woman really know where she’s going?

   The blind leading the blind methinks.
   • don 7.1

     2 October 2017 at 9:49 am

     yes,I found her nauseating to say the least .
8. Carolyn_nth 8

   2 October 2017 at 9:42 am

   Newshub online Poll: Should we get rid of MMP:

   It was 51% “No”, when I did it. It’s now dropped down to 49%
   • Morrissey 8.1

     2 October 2017 at 9:47 am

     Don’t do it—you’re only encouraging them. Online polls have about as much credibility as John Key’s assertion that he couldn’t remember his stance on the 1981 Springbok Tour.
     • halfcrown 8.1.1

       2 October 2017 at 11:29 am

       +1
   • ianmac 8.2

     2 October 2017 at 9:53 am

     back at 51% No. I voted twice. Once on Chrome. Once on Firefox. (Just to show that it is possible.)
     • Morrissey 8.2.1

       2 October 2017 at 10:11 am

       If you voted twice, I wonder how many times each of the National Party slaves pushed that “Yes” button.

       These “polls” are an insult. Instead of participating in them, why not write a letter of objection to Newshub instead?
       • alwyn 8.2.1.1

         2 October 2017 at 11:38 am

         I’ve heard of e-mail but what is this letter, as in “write a letter of objection” you mention?
         Were they those things my grandparents used to talk about?
         • Incognito 8.2.1.1.1

           2 October 2017 at 11:41 am

           You can write a letter and deliver it by e-mail as an attachment. You can even write a letter, sign it, scan it in and deliver it by e-mail. The e-mail bit is new; the letter bit is not.
           • alwyn 8.2.1.1.1.1

             2 October 2017 at 12:20 pm

             I really will have to learn that I must put, probably above and below the comment when it is really only meant as a joke.
             • marty mars …

               2 October 2017 at 2:46 pm

               Probably? a good plan? probably.
             • Incognito …

               2 October 2017 at 2:56 pm

               It was a joke on a joke. I got your joke, but did you get mine?
   • s y d 8.3

     2 October 2017 at 9:54 am

     This is the plan eh, MMP isn’t delivering for New Zealanders.

     Overheard at Mt hot pools last evening – “gotta get rid of this MMP, its all bullshit. We got the most votes, the , we got the, the majority and now winstons holding us to ransom…”
9. DSpare 9

   2 October 2017 at 1:00 pm

   Catalan Independence Referendum results are through and very strongly pro; despite (or perhaps because of) Spanish state intimidation tactics:

   [00:01] Jordi Turull, a Catalan regional government spokesman, said early on Monday that 90% of the 2.26 million Catalans who voted on Sunday voted in favour of independence. The region has 5.3 million voters…

   [00:31] The turnout was 42%, say Catalan officials. On Sunday afternoon, the Spanish interior ministry said police had closed 79 of the 2,315 polling stations set up for the referendum. Earlier,, the Catalan government had reported that, despite the police’s efforts, voting was taking place in 96% of polling stations…

   [00:36] Turull, the Catalan government spokesman, says authorities have calculated that a total of 770,000 votes were lost because of the disruption. “Four hundred schools [used as polling stations] have been sealed and many votes have been directly stolen,” he said.

   https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2017/oct/01/catalan-independence-referendum-spain-catalonia-vote-live
10. patricia bremner 10

    2 October 2017 at 2:03 pm

    See Scoop today, both NZ Labour and National have left voicemail /or phoned and had a response from NZ First.
    • Incognito 10.1

      2 October 2017 at 3:02 pm

      “Your call is important to me and I will return your call as soon as I feel like it possible. Please leave your name & number and a short message after the national anthem beep. The answer still is No”.
    • Ad 10.2

      2 October 2017 at 3:48 pm

      Tinder would have made the whole thing a bit faster.
11. JC 11

    2 October 2017 at 2:21 pm

    Environmental ‘supergroup’ puts future government on notice

    “Environmental issues were at the centre of the 2017 election campaign. No matter who ends up in Government, they will have a clear mandate and a responsibility to take action on fresh water, climate change, and conservation. And they should know that we will be right there to make sure they do.”

    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1710/S00002/environmental-supergroup-puts-future-government-on-notice.htm
12. Ad 12

    2 October 2017 at 3:45 pm

    Anyone remember the joyous pro-union days of The Pajama Game?

    Well, get ready for goodbye clothing machinists, and hello to machines that make clothes right down to the buttons:

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/2017-10-02/u-s-talking-to-north-korea-on-nukes-video
13. Ad 13

    2 October 2017 at 3:52 pm

    Good organising post-election.
    Sure hoping this lot stay toe-to-toe against NZDairy and Fonterra inthe years to come:

    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1710/S00002/environmental-supergroup-puts-future-government-on-notice.htm

    Dear Party leaders,

    A winner in this year’s election was the New Zealand environment. It featured as a bigger concern amongst the electorate than ever before. All of you through your party manifestos made commitments to improve the state of our environment. We congratulate you for those promises.

    As environmental leaders, we wish to offer our congratulations to all parties and to both sitting and new MPs for their election success. We also wish to acknowledge those parties and MPs who are departing Parliament and thank them for their work.

    There is now a strong public expectation that whichever parties form the next Government, there must be clear gains for fresh water, the climate and conservation in the next three years.
    We offer our help in achieving these gains:

    FRESHWATER
    It is clear that ecologically healthy freshwaters, and the ability of New Zealanders to safely swim in their rivers and lakes, will be a key measure of environmental success for the new Government. This can only be achieved if government facilitates and supports a transformation of the primary sector toward new, environmentally-friendly land uses and practices, coupled with tougher regulation and market signals which reflect the true costs of resource use.

    CLIMATE
    There must be a more structured and transparent approach to tackling the greatest challenge of our time – climate change. New Zealand’s emissions have continued to climb and we need an ambitious plan on how to reduce them. Transformative change is required through a new law to establish a statutory carbon budgeting process overseen by an independent Climate Commission to plan, monitor and report on the transition to net zero by 2050. Anything less betrays this and future generations.

    CONSERVATION
    The jewels in the crown of our national identity are the unique species which inhabit our lands, waters and wild places. We need the new Government to institute real measures to protect and enhance the viability of our precious species. This includes the health of the diverse and invaluable terrestrial and aquatic ecosystems that sustain both them and valued introduced species. An increase in funding of DOC’s core budget must be a key component in that strategy.

    These issues, and the many others that fall under the umbrella of “environment”, are at the heart of the richness of our quality of life in New Zealand, and underpin our international reputation. They are also at the core of a genuinely sustainable future and are therefore true legacy issues. The natural world is our home and there are few greater gifts we can bestow our children than a vibrant, vital and healthy natural world.

    We promise to continue our strong advocacy for the environment and look forward to working with all political parties, both in the next government and in the opposition, to achieve positive gains for our environment.

    Yours sincerely

    Kevin Hague
    Forest and Bird

    Russel Norman
    Greenpeace New Zealand

    Livia Esterhazy
    WWF New Zealand

    Bryce Johnson
    Fish & Game New Zealand

    Gary Taylor
    Environmental Defence Society

    Guy Salmon
    Ecologic

    Lisa McLaren
    Generation Zero
    • ianmac 13.1

      2 October 2017 at 8:18 pm

      Ad Wondered about the
      “Rt. Hon. Bill English Leader, National Party”
      after Lisa McLaren’s name?
      Is that to mean English helped write it or is it a copy for his information?
14. Morrissey 14

    2 October 2017 at 4:35 pm

    Sue Moroney’s recent commitment to whistleblowing is to be commended.
    The Panel, RNZ National, Monday 2 October 2017
    Jim Mora, Julia Hartley-Moore, Mike Rehu, Megan Whelan

    First topic for the light and breezy once-over this afternoon was the Joanne Harrison fraud case. The Member of Parliament who pushed this case was Labour’s Sue Moroney, who dutifully answered a few questions from the Panelists about it. Sue Moroney did a very good job here, but she has not always defended whistleblowers as robustly as she did in the Harrison case.

    In fact, an infamous performance by her on the Backbenchers television show in 2013 showed her to be anything BUT a defender of Edward Snowden…

    WALLACE CHAPMAN: Here’s a simple question for you Sue Moroney. If the U.S. whistleblower sought asylum in New Zealand, would you support him?
    SUE MORONEY: [face frozen in rictus grin] Ahhhhhhhhhhh. [extended pause] No. I don’t think so. Ask me something that matters.

    Open mike 16/06/2013
15. adam 15

    2 October 2017 at 4:51 pm

    So the trump administration is doing another surge,

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2017/08/30/afghan-troop-surge-likely-to-include-thousands-of-paratroopers-marines-and-heavy-bombers/?utm_term=.c3bf73b90105

    It seems that the pomes’ are joining in

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4332517/sas-afganistan-taliban-surge-trump/

    We are supporting this madness in our own small way

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/337984/nz-to-send-more-defence-personnel-to-afghanistan

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