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Open mike 03/03/2016

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, March 3rd, 2016 - 81 comments
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81 comments on “Open mike 03/03/2016”

  1. Tautoko Mangō Mata 1

    TPP- an Australian view.
    I love this line

    Willful blindness over the benefits wouldn’t matter so much if there wasn’t also wilful blindness to the costs.

    This applies to NZ as well.

    Because we’ve comparatively few barriers to negotiate away we’ve been under pressure to agree to other things, like tighter copyright rules and extra-territorial tribunals to which foreign firms (but not our own firms) can take the Australian government after losing their case in Australian courts.

    http://www.smh.com.au/comment/close-but-no-transpacific-partnership-cigar-hillary-20160301-gn7pjo.html#ixzz41lzeEcAt

  2. Andre 2

    Maybe the AIs won’t take us over by going “Terminator” on us. Maybe they’ll just turn us into “Idiocracy” and we’ll never notice.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/machine-learning-free-will_us_56d5a849e4b0871f60ecab33?ir=Science&section=us_science&utm_hp_ref=science

    Normally I don’t notice any web ad pop-ups. But last weekend I looked up some transistor datasheets, and now half the web ads are for electronic components very specific to the kinds of circuits that would use those transistors. Big Data is getting really scary…

    • Ad 2.1

      Does this kind of thing still track me if I change email addresses and providers?

      • Colonial Viper 2.1.1

        TL/DR: yes and very quickly


        They’ll identify the device you are using the new email account with and see if there are any other email accounts associated with that device.

        They can identify your device via various net queryable ID’s eg. the IMSI of your smartphone.

        At that moment they will associate your new email account with your device, which is already associated with you.

        Then they can track the size and other characteristics of your typical emails, who you are sending to and receiving from, and when, and from where, and using which wifi connections, to determine if you are the user of the new email account.

        At which time they can link all the past records from your past email accounts to your new email account.

        This is why people use “burner phones” (and “burner laptops”) etc.

        http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Burner%20phone

    • DH 2.2

      Set your browser up to delete cookies when it’s closed Andre, except for some sites you log into that’s how targeted ads are served. Then make a habit of closing your browser when you’re finished using it. They don’t (yet) use IP addresses to serve ads.

      Few people seem to realise that cookies are near-permanent unless they’re manually removed or the browser is configured to delete them on closure.

      With sites like Google, Ebay, even Trademe, it pays to do your searches when you’re not logged in… and don’t do it after you log out because the cookie stays set.

        • DH 2.2.1.1

          You could try reading the article, which says just what I’ve said.

          To serve targeted ads the advertiser must be able to identify you. They do that with cookies which are unique identifers.

          It wouldn’t surprise me to find Google Chrome has a built-in ID as well but so far it’s never been reported. Anyone who uses Google products is just asking for trouble IMO.

          • Andre 2.2.1.1.1

            Aren’t there also hardware unique identifiers? That get used for validating software licenses (and no doubt many other things)? It may be they also use IP addresses, since a few electronic component ads started appearing on my son’s computer when he’s on my WiFi, and I’m pretty sure we only used my computer to look up the datasheets.

            • DH 2.2.1.1.1.1

              They’re always trying for new ways to identify people but it’s not that easy to make it consistent without installing an app on the target. IP address is an obvious one but since we mostly have dynamic IPs the advertisers felt it too unreliable. Reboot your router and you’ll get a new IP, if they target ads that way you’ll end up with someone else’s ads. Mobile computers roam a lot and their IP will change with it.

              In theory the browser can’t pull personal data from a PC, phone or whatever, there are rules on what browsers are allowed to do without user permission. Cookies were never intended for tracking, they just had features which advertisers discovered they could exploit.

            • McFlock 2.2.1.1.1.2

              MAC addresses.

              Think of it that the IP adress is the postcode, the MAC address is the name on the envelope, if there’s only one of you on the planet.

              But also there are things like comparing IP address plus browser type plus OS to give a pretty good approximation of unique individual.

              That’s all passive gathering, rather than cookies which require your machine’s active coperation.

              Data mining can lead to some interesting associations, including shops knowing you’re pregnant before anyone else does. In fact, with enough data it might end up telling with reasonable accuracy when someone is pregnant – or going to be – before they know it themselves.

          • Halfcrown 2.2.1.1.2

            “It wouldn’t surprise me to find Google Chrome has a built-in ID as well but so far it’s never been reported. Anyone who uses Google products is just asking for trouble IMO.”

            Does that include the gmail address I have and also the searching I do using Google?

            • DH 2.2.1.1.2.1

              Gmail lets them target ads more accurately. Cookies identify the browser but not the user, if more than one person is using the computer the ads will often be misdirected from cookies alone. Log into gmail and they know exactly what ads to serve you.

              I thought I read somewhere that Google were robot-mining actual emails for more specific targeting but I could be mistaken on that, may have been someone else.

              Google are not a charity, they make their dosh from ads and their idea of privacy is not always in sync with ours.

              Google search has tracking. Copy & paste any of the links in a search result and you’ll find its not the address you end up at. They redirect it.

              • Colonial Viper

                If you are not buying things from your search provider, email provider, or social media provider, chances are that YOU are the product being sold.

                • Andre

                  What price are they getting for me? If it’s just putting up with some visual pollution on my screen and a slightly slower connection, I’m willing to live with that trade-off. Since it’s pretty obvious.

                  If they’re getting something I can’t see and don’t know about, I’d sure like to fix that blind spot.

                  • McFlock

                    shouldn’t affect your connection too much.

                    probably doesn’t even affect the number of ads you get.

                    Just makes the ads more aimed at who they think you are, based on your past behaviour and compared against everyone else’s.

                    Sort of like this guy, whose flatmate bought facebook adspace for a mix of segments that could only apply to him. In the entire world. Evil little trick 🙂

                  • DH

                    “If they’re getting something I can’t see and don’t know about, I’d sure like to fix that blind spot.”

                    I think it takes away a lot of the freedom of the ‘net Andre.

                    If search engines keep pushing you to their paying advertisers you’ll struggle to find exactly what you want on the ‘net.

              • Halfcrown

                Thanks for that DH. My Gmail address is a secondry address and it is only given to selected people. However I guess it is good to be aware of these things Thanks.

      • Andre 2.2.2

        Thanks, DH. I’m not bothered by the ads, and leaving cookies there is actually enough of a convenience for my other browsing that I’ll leave things the way they are. I was more surprised about how precise the targeting is these days. And worried about how it could get much more subtle in the future, rather than overtly in-your-face like it is now.

        • DH 2.2.2.1

          Yeah that is a downside, losing your site preferences, but I find it worth the small price.

          The precision is probably due more to the dominance of Google, not so many cookie harvesters fighting over ad space these days.

          • Andre 2.2.2.1.1

            If I ever get in a situation where I want to do things on a computer that I really don’t want some spotty-faced yoof in Utah, San Fran, or Beijing looking at it, that computer’s going to be air-gapped with all wireless comms disabled.

    • aidan 2.3

      “idiocracy” to late for that, you only have to look at the state of our main stream media and the quality of debate about issues to see we have pretty much crossed that threshhold. three terms of the national government have seen to that

    • Draco T Bastard 2.4

      As I’ve been saying for awhile. It’s not the government watching you that’s scary – it’s the corporations.

  3. Herodotus 3

    Are there others out there, who like me are yet to receive their voting papers for the flag ?

  4. Rosie 4

    Was it extra stinking hot this summer where you live?

    February has been uncomfortably hot, (for me, quite unbearable), here in Wellington. We were one of a few centres who had a record hot February, 2 degrees hotter than usual (Dominion Post, Newshrub). Records for Wellington have been held for almost 90 years. Apparently this is down to El Nino.

    But this summer we’re experiencing a “Godzilla” El Nino:

    “Bill Patzert, a climatologist with NASA’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory, gave this El Niño its “Godzilla” moniker. The “Godzilla” El Niño of 2015-2016 is already one of the strongest on record, having large consequences on global weather. ”

    https://wunderground.atavist.com/el-nino-forecast

    2 Degrees sounds like nothing but it’s what the Paris Climate talks agreed to try to keep climate change below. If these 2 degrees are a taste of what it to come as we age and climate change continues to strengthen its impact, then this is still a disruptive kind of a temperature to cope with is it not?

    • Sabine 4.2

      my feijoa have yet to fruit, my plums did not produce even half of last years crop, my lemon is pulling a sour face, and above all i have yet to see a single bee.

      the heat is something quite else. I did read an article that the heat will have an impact on us but that the humidity is what is killing people.
      But then I guess, i keep my head firmly in the sand and all is well.

      • ScottGN 4.2.1

        If your plums had a heavy crop last year Sabine it would be expected that you would get a much lighter crop this year. It’s called biennial bearing and most fruits trees do it. It’s simply the trees way of recouping the enormous energy that’s been spent producing the heavy crop. You can try and even things out by thinning off some of the excess fruit in a heavy crop year.

        As for the feijoas lack of fruit, if like me you live in the south then I think the exceptionally cold spring we had will be the culprit this year.

        And the bees are gone. There are no feral honey bees left in most places in NZ anymore thanks to the Varroa mite. They can’t survive anymore without human intervention. Utterly depressing to think about unless, of course, you are a bumblebee, in which case you’ll be loving the free run.

        • Sabine 4.2.1.1

          I have lived at this property for a while, and the lack of fruit is not quite the same as a smaller crop from year to year.

          It is the lack of crop that I find astonishing, and the lack of bee’s. I have seen butterflies, I have seen millions of fly’s but not one single bee.

          I live Auckland, and i don’t even have a shriveled or ‘lack of rain’ stunted fruit on these trees, nothing, absolutely nothing. Never seen this before.
          Same with the Lemon tree, it is one of the old varieties and usually does good.

          I guess i will have to get better at hand pollinating.

          • ScottGN 4.2.1.1.1

            Or get a couple of bee hives.

          • greywarshark 4.2.1.1.2

            We need to keep bees as pets and limit our cats. Guideline, before more than one cat, a small beehive after you have joined the local bee-raising community. We have to widen our lives to include our necessary interdependent species.

          • Glenn 4.2.1.1.3

            “Feijoa growers are generally more concerned with attracting pollinating bird species such as blackbirds and mynahs than having to control avian pests.

            Pollination
            To maximise yields, frequent visits by larger birds such as blackbirds and mynahs are essential to spread pollen throughout the orchard and to ensure the cross-pollination of compatible varieties. As these birds feast on the flower petals they collect pollen on their heads and carry it from tree to tree. Small birds such as waxeyes and insects including bees have little effect and, indeed, may actually reduce the chances of successful pollination as they compete for pollen but rarely come into contact with the stigma.”

            http://www.tharfield.co.nz/crop.php?fruitid=19_Feijoa

            • Sabine 4.2.1.1.3.1

              i have a lot of birds, thrush, black bird, tui, wax eye, sparrows you name it.

              I have a lot of ‘wild parts’ in my garden but this year everything seem out of whack. The cat on my property is an indoor cat, the dog is well she is a daisy dog. What can i say, me animals resemble me :).

              As i said, i had heeps of monarchs, and birds, n flies but nothing took, i assume it is the lack of water, the weird humidity and such.

            • greywarshark 4.2.1.1.3.2

              That’s interesting Glenn. Of course feijoas and native birds didn’t evolve together or bees either. So you need the pushy furriners do you, pushing themselves into the petals and travelling round.

          • Mrs Brillo 4.2.1.1.4

            Hand pollinating will always work – China is formally using it as a crop maximisation technique.

            However feijoas are bird-pollinated. That’s why the petals of their flowers taste so nice (ever tried them in a salad?). If you attract birds to your garden and keep cats away, your feijoa crops should improve.

            But get some beehives anyway. The world needs more bees, as colony collapse disease grows and spreads.

            • greywarshark 4.2.1.1.4.1

              Yes, that and varroa mites. So much is due to the spread of tourism, and wasteful use of resources in transport of cargo of things we should make ourselves.

              So we have unemployment in the midst of huge choice of imported things with engineered limits of good wear. What goes around comes around including fan worm, fruit flies, measles, flus, TB, Aids all that stuff.

      • Colonial Viper 4.2.2

        the heat is something quite else. I did read an article that the heat will have an impact on us but that the humidity is what is killing people.

        Indeed. High humidity moves the wet bulb temp upwards, and in the end its that which causes real heat stress in people as bodies can no longer cool themselves.

        eg
        40 deg C 100% humidity is far more dangerous than 45 deg C 50% humidity.

      • Rosie 4.2.3

        That humidity does suck if you live in Auckland. 16 summers of it was enough for me. The humidity did me in. (and a whole lot of other things but I won’t go into that).

        This summer has felt like being back in Ak all over again, a drier heat none the less but just intolerable.

        No bee’s around here either despite planting plenty of bee friendly plants. Lots of bumble bees though.

        • greywarshark 4.2.3.1

          Might have to take the bees under your wing so to speak, community hives etc.
          Citizens can’t wait for responsible government to act, that’s an oxymoron or something here in NZ. The bee business has come under Federated Farmers fold, and we know that they don’t stir too much about things that haven’t got that magic profit margin they expect.

          We have a way to go before business/finance interests have sucked every trace of profit dry here, leaving us gaping, open-mouthed. How did they saw NZ into quarters before our very eyes. It’s Black Magic.

    • DH 4.3

      Been a struggle for me too Rosie, I’m in Auck and also spent some time up north where it was also hot. Humidity like the tropics on one particular evening.

  5. cogito 5

    Voting papers in my P O Box this morning.

    Layout of voting paper is designed to catch you out, with tea towel placed ABOVE current NZ flag. So all those like me who want to retain the NZ flag need to take care as the natural instinct is to expect the current flag to be the first one on the voting paper…. not the bottom one. Just another dirty little Key trick to manipulate the outcome.

    KOF… tick bottom box!

    • BM 5.1

      KDS strikes again.

      • cogito 5.1.1

        The more strikes the better. Anything to expose that creep and get him out of NZ…. and you can carry his bags for him.

      • aidan 5.1.2

        i think i may be starting to suffer from BMDS. you might want to cut KDS onto a clipboard cause i think your going to have to use it an awfull lot as resentment about this government boils over. and by the way, its not just key that inspires this level of contempt, its the entire national party – maybe you need to change that to NPDS. or perhaps we could have a different “Derangement syndrome for each of the worst offending (most visible) nat party members, how about BDS (interchangable for paula bennet and gerry brownley and bridges) and of course CDS for the crusher PDS for parata… icould go on but i think you get the picture

      • integralenz 5.1.3

        Key Disgust never goes away.

      • Draco T Bastard 5.1.4

        BM proves his stupidity and lack of individuality yet again.

      • Rosie 5.1.5

        If you’re going to parrot KDS every time someone mentions key you’re going to get very annoying very quickly. It’s not very original and makes you sound like a school kid. (sorry kids, no offence)

    • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 5.2

      If you are ticked by that, cogito, may be you shouldn’t be making any decisions at all. About anything.

  6. DH 6

    There’s a curious advertorial in the Herald….

    “KPMG: ‘Social investment’ set to save $12bn and help at-risk NZers better”

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/kpmg/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503886&objectid=11598178

    That’s a paid-for article praising the Govt, it’s not promoting the advertiser one iota, and I’m curious to know what KPMG are getting out of it. Why would they pay to advertise for someone else?

    • Colonial Viper 6.1

      On the contrary, KPMG is smart enough to target their advertising to their most important customer base, which is what they have done with this ad.

      • DH 6.1.1

        I agree CV but in theory the Govt of the day has no real authority to give any work or contracts to KPMG. That’s all meant to be handled by the ‘independent’ bureaucracy.

        It seems a rather unsubtle hint that these big corporates are buying favours and that the Govt has a command influence over who gets what state contracts.

        • Colonial Viper 6.1.1.1

          I agree CV but in theory the Govt of the day has no real authority to give any work or contracts to KPMG. That’s all meant to be handled by the ‘independent’ bureaucracy.

          This elite crowd and their hangers-on efficiently work all these little details out at dinner parties, over cocktails, and in the Sky corporate box, leaving the Left far behind in their wake.

        • Sacha 6.1.1.2

          Who do you think is already getting paid handsomely to do this sort of work?

    • greywarshark 6.2

      A feel good ad on how to buy into projects that will look and be sold as doing something in the welfare field better than the government, and be a great little earner with a $12 billion funding pool to dip into. Oh bliss. All those bloody poor people are going to be good for something after all.

    • Draco T Bastard 6.3

      Campaigning for the next elections has already started but these things don’t count towards National’s spending total yet.

    • RedBaronCV 6.4

      I looked at this too. It looked like blatant support for government profiling of poorer people.
      Why don’t they support the profiling of business people to recognize those who are going to dodge taxes, run a finance company broke, start a Ponzi scheme and all manner of other financial crimes that cost the community bucket-loads. I’d have thought with their financial expertise they would have had a huge head start on this.

  7. cogito 7

    Prime Minister John Key talks about son Max’s music and cyber-bullying fears

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/77493856/prime-minister-john-key-talks-about-son-maxs-music-and-cyberbullying-fears

    Pathetic….

    The writing in the background sums it up… “Beats working”. Typical of Key, [r0b: I know I’m being overcautious – but I still prefer to leave them out of it thanks].

  8. pat 8

    http://gordoncampbell.scoop.co.nz/2016/03/03/gordon-campbell-on-pharmacs-unequal-battle-over-keytruda/#more-4313

    more real journalism…dont know where the man finds the time to do the research he does.

  9. Draco T Bastard 9

    Interview with Dr Emma Dawnay on the Swiss referendum on monetary reform

    How does the current monetary system affect the economy?

    In several ways. The most drastic way is that the current system is inherently unstable – giving rise to gradual unsustainable build ups of debt which can turn into financial crises, as we have seen in 2007/2008. This happens because money comes into circulation almost entirely by banks making loans. In Switzerland 90% of the money supply M1 has been lent into existence by banks, and only 10% comes from the Swiss National Bank. Banks base their decision on whether to give a loan on one criterion only: do they expect it to make a profit for them? They do not have to check they have sufficient reserves, nor do they take the health of the economy in general into account. The result is that they tend to make too many loans in the economic good times, and they tend to stop lending in the bad times when boom turns to bust, which means either too many or too few projects get funded. The trouble with a financial crash is that it doesn’t just affect financial industries, but the whole economy and society.

    Bold mine.

    This is why the government should be the sole creator of currency which is then spent into the economy.

    That money is spent in numerous ways. Extraction of resources such as coal, oil, gold, etc, provision of services such as health and research, development and production of numerous essential items such as arms for defense and medical equipment. Owning enough farms to ensure that all NZers have a healthy diet at all times would also be a bonus. There would also be the UBI.

    This would be a stable flow of money into and out of the economy which would then support the private sector in doing the nice to have stuff. I won’t say that it would get rid of the business cycle but it would no longer cause crashes such as the Great Depression and the GFC.

    Businesses come and go but society remains and there’d be no poverty or deprivation caused by the private sector collapsing as happens now.

    • greywarshark 9.1

      I wonder how much the stability of NZ basic economy is owed to the pump action of old age pension spending? It is reliable, tightly controlled, and must be an important part in keeping the country and especially the ignored regions ticking over.

      • Draco T Bastard 9.1.1

        Quite a bit. ~$10 billion per year with a multiplier effect of ~3 times so about $30 billion of the $200 billion GDP. Other benefits would have a similar effect.

        • greywarshark 9.1.1.1

          @Draco TB
          Thanx for that. I didn’t have such a big number in my head – wow! And of course the multiplier which follows schoolbook economics of payment to businesses for reinvestment in product, some to wages, some to government in tax which in turn is drawn on for admin, infrastructure and more superannuation (old age pensions) and other pensions. And round again till, as you note, after three times of circulation of the original dollar, reducing each time as tax is withdrawn which is like an administration fee for handling the money, then it finally dissipates.

          It is interesting for people to see where a local dollar travels and how many people have used it when a community sets up a short-term system. It is a good example of economics in action. A Council could give away ten one dollar local notes with each rate demand once a year, with a list of local businesses where they could be spent, and a grid where each business could put its stamp or code. Then the businesses would pay each week to the Council the accumulated local dollars, and the Council would give them the likely IRD tax they would have to pay to cover those transactions, plus a free ticket to a Council sponsored concert or sports event.
          It would be a good way of creating business flow if there is a deadly quiet off-season that make it so hard for businesses to survive.

  10. greywarshark 10

    There will be a lot of ground preparing for policy and mind modification to be observed if you look and listen with a discerning mind.

    Saw one featured in the r-h column from L Wiggs about how wonderful it will be growing food in enclosed areas where bugs and bacteria fungi can’t get at them. Buildings devoted to crops grown vertically so saving ground space. Energy provided by panels using the sun and batteries probably charged from the sun.
    http://lancewiggs.com/2016/02/28/is-there-a-future-in-food-for-new-zealand/

    True organic produce comes in a bad second to this new approach. And the living earth and its health benefits is passe’.

    Mind modification and gene modification and forget about humanity, just think of the brave new world. Humans are wonderful and have such potential to all live amazing and creditable lives of our own making now. That’s if we brought our true intelligence, love for others and the rest of our living world and understandings to bear. But no. Try harder!

  11. greywarshark 11

    I’m reading a book by Colin Cotterill who lives in Thailand. He has been over there in Asia for a long time, knows the country well. The books of his I read are detective stories with a difference. Very enjoyable This is an extract where an old Lao politician and diplomat is giving a run-down of the area around the time of the Vietnam war and the convolutions which changed political leanings to the volatile present. Very lively writing and probably close to reality.

    These were the days of what Civilai liked to call ‘bedroom farce’ politics. Countries were frantically jumping in and out of bed with other countries who had once been mortal enemies. In the USA, TIME magazine had named Deng Xiao Ping their man of the year. The Chinese Premier travelled to Washington, where amnesia had apparently set in over the insults they’d lavished upon him just a year before.

    The Soviet Union, sensing a Chinaless void to flood with its style-less domestic appliances, had hurriedly thrown together a peace delegation to visit the region. They had agreed to several educational and cultural projects in the spirit of socialist harmony. The Soviets were currently airlifting Vietnamese troops out of Cambodia to shore up Vietnam’s northern borders. On the southern front, capitalist Thailand had put together its own love team led by a Prime Minister who had suggested just a year earlier that Laos was a backwater run by idiots. The Mekhong had been reclassified from a volatile border to a waterway of opportunity. The Morning Market was stocking up on Thai-made junk.

  12. tinfoilhat 12

    R.I.P. Martin, gone to soon.

    You gave a great deal of pleasure to the cricketing world. Condolences to family and friends.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11462281

    • Puckish Rogue 12.1

      Agreed, whats impressive to me is as good a cricketer as he was his musings on the game were just as good, just as informative, insightful and easily understood

  13. Puckish Rogue 13

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/297903/green-mp-apologises-for-drug-pawn-comment

    “What I am criticising is the actions of politicians from several sides who have indicated that they would definitely fund this drug.

    “As a politician, it’s clear that that would be a popular decision … but it would be the wrong thing to do.”

    hes a good man is Kevin

    • weka 13.1

      Are you in favour of politicians directing Pharmac, and subsequently pharmaceutical companies targeting politicians?

      He had been trying to make the more general point that if politicians intervened in Pharmac’s drug funding decisions it would create an environment where drug companies would focus their attention on publicity campaigns, he said.

      “What I am criticising is the actions of politicians from several sides who have indicated that they would definitely fund this drug.

      “As a politician, it’s clear that that would be a popular decision … but it would be the wrong thing to do.”

      New Zealand’s pharmaceuticals budget had been underfunded by hundreds of millions of dollars and that was where the political focus should be, Mr Hague said.

  14. Chooky 14

    All you ever wanted to know about Boris Johnson BRIXIT….and Donald Trump Truther

    https://www.rt.com/shows/keiser-report/333806-episode-max-keiser-881/

    Episode 881

    In this episode of the Keiser Report, Max Keiser and Stacy Herbert discuss democracies committing suicide (as John Adams had warned) and the ominous “BoJo Hair Formation” taking place in sterling as the pound plunges on Mayor of London Boris Johnson announcing his support for the Leave campaign in the EU referendum.

    In the second half, Max interviews alternative media star Alex Jones about his first-of-its-kind interview with Republican frontrunner Donald Trump and what role the mainstream media has played in Trump’s rise by refusing to cover certain stories important to Americans outside the Beltway.

  15. Ed 15

    I don’t normally look at the Farrar-go of Kiwiblog, but a friend quoted an article from it that claimed that minimum wage workers are better off now then they were under Labour. He compares after (income) tax earnings, ignores the GST increase, counts a reduction in ACC in National’s favour which is at the least suspect), and inflates April 2008 earnings at an unknown rate to compare with April 2016. I am suspicious of the period chosen – a month before may give a different result, and why not November 2008 to November 2015? The comparison also ignores that productivity increases have not affected the minimum wage under Labour – commentary based on median ratehr than average wage is probably also spin. It is likely that a shonkey comparison would be shoved over to the spin-meister rather than have a Nat MP get shot down with it, but I’d be interested in any analysis or thoughts from others.

  16. Mike C 16

    @TeReoPutake

    Never thought in eleventy trillion years that I would ever say this … but I might start spending more time here if I am welcome.

    Georges place has changed a lot over the past few months … which is very sad.

    But a week or so ago … when I was doing some research on a certain subject … I noticed that the Standard is a very different site compared to 12 months ago.

    Right now … you are less moderated than YourNZ … which is another thing that I never thought I would ever say. LOL.

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