Open mike 03/06/2015

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, June 3rd, 2015 - 131 comments
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131 comments on “Open mike 03/06/2015 ”

  1. Paul 1

    National ‘coy’ about their social agenda.
    Wonder why?

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11458709

  2. Paul 2

    ‘Dairy Auction: Prices continue to fall’
    Farmers won’t be able to take much more of this, especially as this is now predicted to last next year as well.
    How does the government get away with commentators calling this a rock star economy?

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11458522

    • Kiwiri 2.1

      Also, I’m looking forward to seeing the supermarket price of milk, butter and dairy products decline for the sixth time when I do my shopping this week.

      /sarc

    • It’s so frustrating; the 17 year anti-corruption, pro transparency regime he has so manfully championed was just starting to bear fruit, too. Why do the good guys go too soon?

      • Colville. 3.1.1

        “Why do the good guys go too soon?”

        because they have enough socked away in the Caymans to last 5 lifetimes?

        • aidan 3.1.1.1

          how bout this came to a head after a strong push from the US following proposed boycott of isreali teams????

          • Colville. 3.1.1.1.1

            It came about after the USA was beaten by Qatar for 2022 world cup.
            Putin backed Qatar with a LOT of money.
            USA has gotten the pip and doing what it can to show the world it wont be fucked with.

            • Colonial Rawshark 3.1.1.1.1.1

              FFS Qatar is one of the richest oil nations on Earth, they don’t need Russian money. Get a grip. The US is targetting the Russian World Cup and hoping to derail it.

              • McFlock

                lol

                Or the corrupt US FIFA guy who had a Trump Towers apartment for his cat but never filed a tax return got nabbed for his personal accounting irregularities and pled down to “why are you picking on me? You should see what those guys are doing!!!”, thus breaking open a case that had been languishing in the “looks fucked up, we know it’s fucked up, but we can’t prove it’s fucked up” pile.

                The best thing for the US is for Russia to spend billions on a WC that never makes money for the host nation.

            • Colonial Rawshark 3.1.1.1.1.2

              Boycott of 2018 FIFA Russian World Cup underway

              Stupid game playing by a stupid set of senile elites

              http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/international/fifa-corruption-world-cup-boycott-is-the-only-way-to-reform-fifa-says-senior-uefa-official-10290415.html

              • Kinda irrelevant now, CV. Russia and Qatar are probably going to lose their hosting rights in the fallout and the process will be re-opened. Could be an opportunity for us and the Aussies to host in 2022. If Russia does lose 2018, Germany will be able to cover without difficulty.

                • Colonial Rawshark

                  Yep all part of the US plan to dramatically disrupt democratic FIFA elections and disrupt the 2018 Russian World Cup.

                  • Kiwiri

                    +1

                    • Colonial Rawshark

                      All the South American FIFA delegations are going to see this for what it is.

                    • Too right! They’ll be packing themselves, particularly the Brazilians. Lots of uncounted for FIFA money went into the last World Cup. Blatter knows who got what and where it went.

                    • Colonial Rawshark

                      Yeah and so does the NSA

                  • Ha! Yep, that’s it in a nutshell. Bonus points for saving Israel’s blushes, too. FIFA, the finest democracy money can buy! But to be serious, both Qatar and Russia are undemocratic states where homophobia and racism are entrenched in legislation. They should have never even been in the position where their applications were taken seriously, let alone endorsed.

                    • Colonial Rawshark

                      Bottom line is that the US could not get rid of Blatter democratically, so they resorted to dirty tricks to disrupt the FIFA elections. A repeat of the “you’re either with us or against us” divide and conquer imperial strategy. The South American nations understand this very well.

                      You are fine to back Western hegemony in the football world as in all other things. The West couldn’t win the competitions democratically, so they resorted to dirty tricks.

                      Just remember western nations have decided to allow thousands of poor refugees from Africa to drown in the Med every year and have little moral authority here.

                      Re: the best democracy money can buy – how about that US Senate which finally passed the TPPA fast track legislation when given a few hundred thousand more in corporate bribes?

                      Qatar will keep the World Cup and I guess you will support that, because Qatar are major US allies. Russia however is likely to lose theirs, and no doubt you will support that too.

                    • Eh? That comment made eff all sense. FIFA is not a democracy, it’s a cartel. Russia and Qatar bought their tournaments. Both are truly awful, despotic regimes who should not be allowed to play in the World Cup, let alone host them.

                      The USA’s involvement is because they have the ability to do something about it. And good job, too.

                    • Colonial Rawshark

                      Your lack of comprehension is not my issue.

                      You can excuse unilateral and militant Western action all you like TRP, but the Russian and Qatar World Cups were not awarded on any different basis than all the other World Cups during Blatter’s 17 year reign.

                      South Korea/Japan, Germany, Brazil, South Africa.

                      Ah yes the USA fighting for a world free of corruption and oppression – keep waving the imperial flag TRP!

                    • Jeez, you know nothing about football, do ya? No worries, keep flapping your gums anyway. PS, unilateral doesn’t mean what you think it does.

                    • Colonial Rawshark

                      Poor old TRP, defending unilateral militant western hegemony to the hilt. As I said, South American football nations know exactly what this is about.

                    • Colonial Rawshark

                      usual western approach in fact – Sepp Blatter gets voted in by FIFA delegates but to Western hegemony, democratic elections are only valid if the right person wins.

                      You probably preferred the Jordanian Prince candidate as head of FIFA. Speaking of democracies and all.

                    • u·ni·lat·er·al

                      adjective: unilateral

                      1. (of an action or decision) performed by or affecting only one person, group, or country involved in a particular situation, without the agreement of another or the others.
                      “unilateral nuclear disarmament”
                      synonyms: independent, autonomous, solitary, solo, go-it-alone, single-handed, self-determined, maverick, isolationist

                      Like it or not, or even understand the issues and players or not, the fact remains that this is the best day in football for half a century. Your wibbling can’t change that, CV.

                    • Colonial Rawshark

                      the fact remains that this is the best day in football for half a century. Your wibbling can’t change that, CV.

                      Ahhh yes White western countries have asserted their rightful dominance over the sport once more, US, Australia, NZ, western European nations.

                    • Oh, bullshit. Condescending, racist bullshit at that. I know you’ve got your problems, but coming out in favour of ongoing corruption has to be one of the weirdest things you’ve ever put up here. If you don’t know what’s going on, just say nothing.

                    • Colonial Rawshark

                      And now the Western European countries/US are threatening to launch their own parallel World Cup to undermine Russia and Qatar’s events. Talk about sore losers.

                      If the White European/US aligned nations can’t get their way, they’ll undermine international organisations, disrupt democratic elections and leave those countries not in their tight little circle out in the cold.

                      And yes, FIFA has plenty of corruption associated with it but the US and Europe had no problem with South Africa, Germany and Brazil being awarded the World Cup eh? It’s not as if corruption only started up in FIFA a couple of years ago, right?

                    • Ah, yes more racism. And a reference to a non existent alternative tournament, which would never had flown and is not needed now anyway. Top work, CV. There has been endemic corruption under Blatter, which is the whole point of what is happening now. I know you’re finding this confusing, but the end of the Blatter regime is a very, very good thing.

                    • Colonial Rawshark

                      Yeah TRP, it is racism and colonialism, a regime change effort by white developed first world anglo/euro countries who couldn’t beat Blatter in elections, to undermine the democratic wishes of a sizeable majority of FIFA delegates, and to unconstitutionally take the World Cup hosting rights off countries out of favour with white western liberal elites.

                • Tracey

                  please God no! I love the beautiful game but the myths around the benefits of hosting these big events really piss me off.

                  They. COST. The. TAXPAYER/RATEPAYER. MILLIONS.

                  to satisfy some egos. Money better spent on stuff like, gee, classrooms, children, disabled, waiting lists.

        • te reo putake 3.1.1.2

          Blatter lives in Switzerland; no need to go to the Caymans when the gnomes of Zurich are looking after your ill gotten gains.

          • Colville. 3.1.1.2.1

            Blatter isnt stupid. No way will he have ill gotten gains in a bank in the same country where he is a tax resident.
            Half of the guys arrested are residents of the Caymans.
            Must be a the nice beaches I suppose.

      • Tracey 3.1.2

        he learned at the feet of the master corrupter, one Juan Antonio Samaranch…

        by stepping down after the election, he gets to stay for a wee while and oversee the destruction of anything incriminating and take some last envelopes.

        • te reo putake 3.1.2.1

          You may have confused your fascistic sports dictators, Tracey. Jean-Marie “João” de Havelange was Blatter’s mentor at FIFA. Samaranch was the Olympic boss. However, the two men were mates, Havelange also being on the Olympic exec. They both had with remarkably similar attitudes to patronage and personal enrichment.

    • David Bachman 3.2

      When the poo hits the fan, a leader adopting the position ‘The buck doesn’t stop with me.’ Is on wobbly ground.

      For a leader to say ‘The buck stops with me, you need me here to clean this up.” while at the same time stretch the other foot over to the position “I know nothing of the problems.”

      It can only be a strategy fuelled by arrogance, ignorance and greed.

      • You talking about Blatter or Key?

        • David Bachman 3.2.1.1

          Ha! Yeah. Seriously, I think slagging Key’s popularity/performance does little to win the support of the hearts that need to be won over if we’re going to see a Lab/Green govt. People move on from the popular when it becomes passé or they see something better. Not because it copped a right royal slagging. My Dad slagging The Pistols made me like them more. I moved on when I heard what I perceived to be something better.

          Little’s vs Key’s popularity has little to do with it. People are looking for love, aspiration, opportunity and hope. It has nothing to do with who is signposting the path,

    • tc 3.3

      Yup and the FBI are going on the unpaid taxes angle as they’ve been taking out Sepp’s supporters one at a time over the past few years so the noose tightens a little more.

      He’s giving himself a few months to knife as many enemies as he can and ensure the next president is the right sort.

      Qatar 2022 weighs heavy on Blatter, if it does go ahead it disrupts the european season as it can’t be played mid year which has been conceded recently.

      Methinks the senility set in on Qatar wtf were they thinking and as bill hicks would say ‘ are you a f’n lizard man…’

  3. SMILIN 4

    Here we go again Key redressing National of olds LOSS
    Ngati Whatua being denied what was their land because Key wants to put his so called housing program in place at the expense of the Treaty settlement and to redress his grievance over Bastion Point which Sir lost
    No knighthood in this one Key FO

  4. Puckish Rogue 5

    Being the generous chap I am I’m going to give James Shaw some advice and the advice is gold, here it is:

    Be like Helen Clark and underpromise and over deliver.

    When he said he said (or the media said and he didn’t correct them) he’d take it to John Key he raised expectations

    Those expectations were dashed, how bad was James Shaw in the house? I listended to the next question from Andrew Little and he didn’t sound bad at all.

    • maui 5.1

      He should quit, 4 days into the job and he can’t live up to your “high” expectations. A sackable offence. Mind you Key should also be gone for saying the economy up to 2017 is more important than the liveability of the planet for everyone’s children.

      • Puckish Rogue 5.1.1

        I don’t want him to quit, if he keeps going like this its good for National however his performance was shoddy and it was his own fault for building up expectations

        But then maybe that was part of his sales pitch to Green members, that he could “take” John Key

        • weka 5.1.1.1

          Citation please that James Shaw told the Green party members that he could take John Key.

          • Puckish Rogue 5.1.1.1.1

            Thats why I said maybe

            • weka 5.1.1.1.1.1

              In other words you are lying and making shit up.

              • Colville.

                Me thinks the Rogue is on the money…

                “”After beating the more experienced Kevin Hague in a vote for male co-leader position this afternoon, Mr Shaw said he was capable of taking on Mr Key.

                “He did say he was looking forward to it, so he should be careful what he wishes for,” the Green MP said at a press conference.””

                • weka

                  Of course he’s capable of taking on Key, he’s the co-leader of a major political party. But PR is trying to say that Shaw will ‘take’ him, the implication clearly being that it’s a fight with one winner and that Shaw will take Key out. It’s quite a different image. PR has spent quite a few days now astro turfing and troling on ts about Shaw, so I’m just pointing to the bits where he is making shit up.

                  btw, what you quoted is snippets from a MSM journalist, taken out context. I’d take it with a grain of salt because at this stage there are all sorts of people with vested interests in misrepresenting Shaw and the GP (intentionally in PR’s case, or unintentionally in others).

                  • Puckish Rogue

                    You need to get out of your house more, take a walk, get some fresh air because you’re taking all of this far too seriously

                    • weka

                      Haha, so says the astroturfing trole who’s been all over the site for days. I’m just calling you on your bullshit characterisations and general trolliness PR.

                    • Puckish Rogue

                      You asked for a citation for an opinion, thats pretty weak. Imagine what this site would be like if that same standard was applied to everyone.

                      You make claims using buzzwords but i don’t think you know what it means, I mean really saying I’m astroturfing and trolling?

                      I vote Nationial, i’m upfront about that but I will give my opinion on other parties, especially where i think they’re going wrong and people can take my opinion or leave it.

                      More importantly I’m not trolling because I believe what i’m typing, if people want to take it as inflammatory well thats theirs (your) opinion

                      You’re the type of person that wants to shut down people with different opinions by throwing out the latest “bad” descriptive about someone in the hope they’ll be quiet

                      [lprent: All of which is why you seldom have me noticing you. Except on those odd occasions when you write something worth reading. Clearly wasn’t the case in the comment that started this thread. 🙂 ]

                    • weka

                      “You asked for a citation for an opinion, thats pretty weak. Imagine what this site would be like if that same standard was applied to everyone.”

                      No, what I did was clarify that you are making up shit about Shaw and the GP. You’ve been doing it for days. Sure it’s an opinion, but it’s based on nothing but your antipathy towards the GP, it has no basis in fact. Most people like their opinions to have some kind of meaning on the real world, and my preference is for debate to be real not imaginary.

                      “You make claims using buzzwords but i don’t think you know what it means, I mean really saying I’m astroturfing and trolling?”

                      You can look those things up on the internet. Mostly it’s to do with the incessant message you put out and that that message is often full of shit. It’s also often a right wing smear line. If you want to be aligned with that, that’s up to you. In this case it’s about Shaw, but I’ve seen you do this on other topics too.

                      “I vote Nationial, i’m upfront about that but I will give my opinion on other parties, especially where i think they’re going wrong and people can take my opinion or leave it.”

                      Nope. If you post political opinions here that people disagree with, expect to be challenged. If you post inaccuracies, expect to be called on that.

                      “More importantly I’m not trolling because I believe what i’m typing, if people want to take it as inflammatory well thats theirs (your) opinion”

                      Belief in what one says isn’t incompatible with trolling. Trolling is to do with how you relate and how you affect the conversation.

                      “You’re the type of person that wants to shut down people with different opinions by throwing out the latest “bad” descriptive about someone in the hope they’ll be quiet”

                      That’s stupid. I debate with many people here. Debating with you is a pretty futile endeavour because so much of what you say is meaningless or misleading or RWNJ lines. Occassionally you do post something worthwhile, which is why I’m calling you out on your behaviour at the moment, not your presence in general.

                      “When he said he said (or the media said and he didn’t correct them) he’d take it to John Key he raised expectations”

                      Let’s see if we can up the debate a bit, citation for that then please.

            • Tracey 5.1.1.1.1.2

              “or the media said and he didn’t correct them”

              he corrected RNZ

    • Skinny 5.2

      There is a quirky likeability about James Shaw he reminds me of Mr Bean, a very popular character.

      At 53% of the vote Shaw trounced his rivals completely. Hague was a good loser not sure about Molly Hughes haven’t heard a squawk from him since.

      • Colonial Rawshark 5.2.1

        Yes a decisive and unambiguous win for Shaw in the leadership elections.

        • Puckish Rogue 5.2.1.1

          Labour could learn a thing or two from the Greens in this instance

        • Skinny 5.2.1.2

          I was most impressed with his 2 interviews on Q&A and The Nation over the weekend thought it exposed some very insightful stuff. Putting Key-National to the sword on climate change was smart.

      • Marvellous Bearded Git 5.2.2

        @Skinny-54% versus Hague’s 44% are the numbers I heard

    • Tracey 5.3

      he said he was going to challenge key to a joint effort of all parties to collaborate on climate change. ANY expectation other than that did not come from his mouth.

    • millsy 5.4

      If JS performed like you said he did, then it doesnt bode well for the next election…

      Its going to be a struggle ahead for the Greens now.

  5. Wairua 6

    The PM states that use of steel hulls means that refugees are heading for Aotearoa.

    Would a member of the Auckland sailing community be kind enough to take John Key across the Tasman sometime ?

    Better still, in a sea-going waka ? A Polynesian fish-hook was found in an archaeological dig south of Sydney ~20yrs ago.

    James Cook and Lapérouse used wooden hulls.

    Would the Prime Minister be kind enough to explain his reasoning ?

    • Charles 6.1

      You are entirely correct. Round the world racing yacht hulls have been made of everything except steel since the seventies. Playing on the reasoning of the ignorant blabbering classes:

      John Key: The moon is made of cheese!
      Blabberer: Cheese! cheese!
      Astronaut: No it isn’t, I’ve been there.
      Blabberer: Prove it! Go there and prove it!
      Astronaut: Well I have to wait for NASA to…
      Blabberer: Told you so! CHEESE! CHEESE!

      Its funny, because the people who support John also include a large subset of yachties who’ll be sitting in the RNZYS clubrooms this afternoon shaking their heads, but not saying anything either. Just have to let it go.

      • Tracey 6.1.1

        chuckle…

        they are busy taking on Auckland City, a creation of the NACTS (who many o them vote for), for the extension of the ports of auck wharf into their yachting space.

    • tc 6.2

      Just take an Atlas, the current flows between northern oz and Asia, the nature of the boats, where they come from oh and some historical/current data on where they actually end up.

      What a bunch of lickspittles the MSM are, grow a pair and challenge the banskta’s BS.

    • Tracey 6.3

      When he reveal they were heading here, was he sharing operational information?

  6. AsleepWhileWalking 7

    I see that Wikileaks is raising money as a reward for leaking the TPP(A). Interesting, but I don’t think 100K is any match against the threat of jail.

    http://www.silverdoctors.com/americas-most-wanted-secret-wikileaks-is-raising-100k-reward-for-leaked-drafts-of-the-tpp/#more-54234

    Pledge video:

    • Colonial Rawshark 7.1

      Agree – but people have been leaking chapters for no $$$ reward anyway; this will just be a publicity stunt/psyops conducted by Wikileaks.

  7. Chooky 8

    Will we get the same curtailing of blanket surveillance in New Zealand?….where is the NZ Labour Party on this?..or are we going to remain a banana republic under jonkey nactional?

    ‘Senate passes USA Freedom Act, limiting NSA surveillance powers’

    http://rt.com/usa/264417-senate-vote-freedom-act/

    • Puckish Rogue 8.1

      Are our surveillance laws anything like the USA?

    • aidan 8.2

      somehow i don’t imagine the nsa will give up its powers so easily, not on account some some silly laws. i think that recent events have shown how much these outfits respect the law, it’ll just be harder to catch them at it, or better because of the “freedom act” no one will be looking. but yeah, i dont see any such thing happening here. plus our government have been denying any such practices exist. aren’t they all just confabulations of conspiracy theorists like snowden(traitor) and greenwald(hack)

      • Colonial Rawshark 8.2.1

        the key with the NSA is to understand that they read the law using their own secret interpretations and definitions of what is written into the public statute. And they hold secret courts to confirm those secret interpretations and definitions.

        Basically its exactly what the old Eastern European Communist states used to do.

  8. weka 9

    Sharon Murdoch’s cartoon on Social Bonds for mental health services,

    https://twitter.com/domesticanimal/status/605821599908904961

    • Chooky 9.1

      lol…love that cartoon!

    • Tracey 9.2

      WHY hadn’t anyone thought of this before? The only thing that has prevented those with mental illness getting and retaining jobs is the involvement of a bank or other investor. It’s odd that they have all waited for a government scheme before deciding it was worth investing.

  9. Puckish Rogue 11

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/69006542/threestrikes-law-changes-unlikely-after-five-years

    Just when Nationals looking shaky Labour come to the rescue by proving how out of touch they are:

    Labour Party justice spokesperson Jacinda Ardern said she did not accept figures showed the bill worked, and that more specific research should be done.

    Labour wanted the law gone, as it took away judges’ power to look at the circumstances around an offence, with the party wanting to put more focus on helping offenders turn away from crime, she said.

    If there was poll done on whether NZers wanted the three strikes law gone what do we think the result would be?

    Little probably realises now what Cunliffe, Shearer and Goff went through

    • Clean_power 11.1

      In my opinion, a grave miistake by J. Ardern (and Labour). Has she done her homework?

      • te reo putake 11.1.1

        Your paid opinion counts for shit, so no damage done.

        • Clean_power 11.1.1.1

          No doubt you were speaking in front of a mirror, TRP.

        • Puckish Rogue 11.1.1.2

          I don’t think that being percieved to be soft on crime is a good way to win an election in NZ

          • Tracey 11.1.1.2.1

            is crime a big problem in NZ?

            • Puckish Rogue 11.1.1.2.1.1

              Not really but being percieved as soft on crime is never a good look when building towards an election

              • b waghorn

                I’m in agreement with PR if you’ve done two violent crimes and you do a third you should be locked up for a long long time .
                My understanding of why it failed in the us is because the morons applied it to everything including pot smokers.

                • Puckish Rogue

                  My personal opinion would be to decriminalise all drug taking for personal use

              • Tracey

                ah, so its not a problem but to get elected you need to pretend it is, so that people will be scared and vote for your policies which aren’t needed.

            • OneTrack 11.1.1.2.1.2

              Three strikes is working really well, isn’t it?

          • Tracey 11.1.1.2.2

            is crime a big problem in NZ?

          • maui 11.1.1.2.3

            More fear based campaigning, punish people and then punish them some more, and that will solve society’s ills..

    • lprent 11.2

      The biggest problem with measuring three strikes legislation is that it takes anything up to a decade for people to go through the three strikes for the offenses covered. Since most of the offenses carry offenses that require many years in prison, only a few people who were first struck would be out of jail yet.

      The reason that judges are striking down the few third strikes going through is because all three offenses carried very little sentence time, and most likely shouldn’t have been in the idiotic law

      That said. It has already failed. Just look in that article at some of our more inadequate and stupid politicians and ex-politicians calling for it to be extended. Garrett in particular is classic. He was asked many times about how long would be required to detirmine if this legislation had any effect. The idiot avoided that every time when the legislation was being promoted, probably because he didn’t like the answer. It is at least a decade, and probably closer to 15 years. It took 20 years in California before the dumbarse law filled all of the prisons, including the expensive new ones, to the point where the courts started kicking in massive amnesties to clear prison over crowding caused by the stupid legislation.

      Probably these fuckwits calling for more offenses to be under the legislation also have an interesting premature ejaculation issues. Looks like you do too.

      I’m really not that interested in lobbying efforts by Serco.

      • Puckish Rogue 11.2.1

        Probably these fuckwits calling for more offenses to be under the legislation also have an interesting premature ejaculation issues. Looks like you do too.

        Thanks for your concern about my medical well-being, there is a family history of prostate cancer in my family so every year I go to the doctor and get checked out (everythings in the normal range you’ll be pleased to know)

        Being that you’re now…late 50s? I’m assuming that you’re finding your own waterworks aren’t quite flowing as they used to, maybe takes a while to get started, maybe waking up in the middle of the night, maybe needing some herbal help to “get it up”

        But don’t worry theres nothing to be ashamed of, especially at your age, so I’d recommend that you get yourself checked out, better safe than sorry as they say

        • lprent 11.2.1.1

          🙂 I do get checked out. At present I go to the doctor every 8 weeks because I prefer avoiding having another trip to the hospital.

          But despite the diversion – the checkup for social policies like three strikes needs to be longer than five years. About 15 years per checkup. That allows for a few 5-8 year stretches.

  10. weka 12

    Hey CV, James Shaw on a steady state economy,

    He has sympathy for Klein’s narrative of capitalism versus the climate, though.

    This form of capitalism that we have now is incompatible with climate action. – James

    That’s not something fixed, though. It’s something we can change. Had I read Jeremy Rifkin’s Zero Marginal Cost Society, James asks? My turn to confess that I hadn’t. It drives a ‘stake through the heart of traditional capitalist models‘ says James. He sees real potential for a radical economic shift to a more just economic system, away from monolithic structures, towards distributed ownership.

    With that, we gain the chance of separating economic growth from emissions growth. We have to be careful, James explains, about what we mean by a steady state economy. An economy can only be sustainable if it has steady (or, for a time now, perhaps decreasing) resource use and emissions or waste production. Steady state energy use (a good thing) doesn’t mean quality of life not improving (a bad thing). It’s energy and materials that must be steady state, not throughput.

    Jeanette Fitzsimons, James notes, pointed out that a steady state economy is a very different thing from a failed growth economy.

    http://davidtong.co.nz/2015/04/30/talking-climate-with-james-shaw/

    • Colonial Rawshark 12.1

      We have to be careful, James explains, about what we mean by a steady state economy. An economy can only be sustainable if it has steady (or, for a time now, perhaps decreasing) resource use and emissions or waste production. Steady state energy use (a good thing) doesn’t mean quality of life not improving (a bad thing). It’s energy and materials that must be steady state, not throughput.

      So, energy and materials are that which must be steady state, but not their throughput. Their throughput can keep increasing. What does that even mean?

      Shaw also believes that we can continue to improve our quality of life even as we use significantly less materials and energy per capita. That’s fantasy land – unless he is redefining what the average person now defines as “quality of life” i.e. new toys and gadgets, bigger houses, overseas trips etc.

      • weka 12.1.1

        I don’t know what he means but I’d guess it relates to the next statement about it being different than a failed growth economy. Possibly he is also talking about closed cycles for resources instead of the creation/waste cycles we use now.

        Of course he is redefining what quality of life is, it’s the friggin Green Party. And he’s already said that it probably means degrowth for while.

        But really, I was just pointing out to you that GP does work along the lines of a steady state economy being a goal.

  11. b waghorn 13

    http://www.ruralnewsgroup.co.nz/rural-news/rural-opinion/hound/green-gripe
    This is from the rural news now I don’t no who the hound is but my guess is he’s tied in with the nats some how.
    I think its time the greens work out how to put this old mutt to sleep

  12. Ovid 14

    The Labour Review of the 2014 election has been leaked and it pretty much recommends the bleeding obvious. More funding is needed, constructive relationships with potential coalition partners is important, and party unity needs to be maintained.

    There continues to be an emphasis on the “missing million” voters. I find this puzzling. You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make it drink. Similarly, you can’t win elections by trying to appeal to people who won’t vote. I think this is more a matter for the Electoral Commission to address.

    • Colonial Rawshark 14.1

      A fair portion of the missing million are, IMO, tribal Labour voters who will never vote Labour again and so, do not vote.

      Remember, if just 200,000 of those people could be convinced to vote Left, National would be out of office for five terms.

      • maui 14.1.1

        That would be my feeling too, and that InterMana are in the best position to pick up those voters, as I think some of the feeling in their party is that they cover the political ground that Labour used to cover. I’m not sure what the barriers are for those missing people to actually vote Mana though.

    • maui 14.2

      Political commentator Richard Harman, writing about James Shaw and the Labour-Green relationship says that Green Party officials “still don’t really know what Labour stands for.”

      About sums it up for me.

      • Charles 14.2.1

        heh, I would’ve thought that at the very least, Green Party officials would figure out that “Labour” stands for The Greens “in power” 2017. Might be that Richard Harman is wishing that the Greens don’t know the obvious.

        • Colonial Rawshark 14.2.1.1

          That’s brilliant. You’ve really cut to the chase. So according to you, at the very least, Labour stands for winning power, and for National not winning power. That’s the kind of political value system which really motivates voters.

    • Puckish Rogue 14.3

      The funny (well funny to me, maybe not so much posters on here) thing is that rather than waste time and money (assuming they spent money that is) on well duh report they really could have just gone on here and followed the boards for a few weeks after the election and they would have got much the same message

      • te reo putake 14.3.1

        Actually, your idea is kinda what happened. All members were encouraged to contribute via email and and a small group went through the member’s input.

        • Puckish Rogue 14.3.1.1

          In that case I guess it’ll be interesting to see if the recommendations are followed through

          I mean getting back in with the big business donors will take some major mea culpas on its own

      • Charles 14.3.2

        It’s not that the message would be the same, but that being told what to do by an online forum isn’t quite as influential/useful to Labour as Labour figuring it out by themselves. From that point of view, no waste of time occurred, even if it was slow/frustrating to watch. Late can be bad, there are real life consequences, but never is much much worse. The fact Labour have connected or are connecting the dots, and recording the connection publicly and officially is encouraging (generally, for TS/Left readers).

    • Charles 14.4

      Yeah it reads a bit strange that “1L” after all the good points before it, which they appear to be getting right at present (from my outsider pov). According to Labour, if you don’t vote you’re “an affront to democracy”! If they forgot about that bit of authoritarian madness and concentrated on the multiple opportunities of the present that are lining up to be taken easy advantage of, and achieved their preceding goals, “1L” will become irelevent without ever needing to think about it.

      In hindsight, they actually didn’t do all that much wrong (other than the constant leadership changes and occasionally garbled/retracted message), and they take themselves too much to task. But the conclusions they’ve reached are good for any party making a fresh push forward, so it doesn’t matter too much. They presently have a stable leadership, the message is stabilising in a positive way not seen for too long, and I think they can make serious in-roads with their focus on relationships with other potential coalition parties.

    • Tracey 14.5

      an organisation that is well, organised, will know exactly who had access to the document.

    • Tracey 14.6

      I worry about what they will take their conclusion that, the nation was worried by Labour’s possible coalition partners, to mean. I suspect it means distance yourself further and try to get to 50% on their own.

  13. Kevin 15

    Big Ger adds military strategist to his list of skills.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11459248

    • Tracey 15.1

      so, that’s one skill then?

    • RedBaronCV 15.2

      They should have sent him out on patrol with Mike Hosking and Paul Henry covering live. And Ger does have a second skill – barging thr’ airport security

  14. Ray 16

    So someone has leaked the Party’s Election Review
    When are these fools going to learn that a divided Party is never going to win an election
    Rule No.1 through the to 10
    Ticking a whole lot of boxes is not going to cut it
    Dam & blast

  15. Colonial Rawshark 17

    If you are involved in a Labour Party branch you must now be ready to resist any proposed changes which will make branches much less relevant and and much less important in Labour Party decision making and candidate selection.

    • OneTrack 17.1

      You mean when Andrew Little tells you to stand aside and start campaigning for NZ First instead if Labour, you should tell him to go jump? Good idea.

  16. Draco T Bastard 18

    Robert Reich: What are the 3 biggest mythologies preventing us from seeing what’s really happening to our political economy? Please take a look (and share).

    Covers the three biggest lies that have been told to us over the last three decades about the free-market.

  17. weka 19

    Reasonably serious flooding going on in Dunedin and more rain to come. Some houses being evacuated, power cuts, road closures, slips, the obligatory students playing on the Leith. Welcome to the soft end of AGW.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/69063192/flooding-wreaks-havoc-in-dunedin

  18. SMILIN 20

    John Key the Sepp Blatter of NZ politics, Dirty Politics

  19. David Bachman 21

    I’m a big fan of Motown and RnB from that era. I caught a doco on Maori TV the other night about the Funk Brothers. They were the session band that played the music on virtually all of the Motown hits from their heydays. Many are still alive, what beautiful love and reverence they laid on their fallen brothers. They told neat stories like “This scrawny little blind kid called Stevie started making us coffee, spilling half and asking me questions about my lefthand playin….”

    Wow, what a fantastic tight versatile band they still are. For me they are a classic example of synergy in action. Synergy is when the sum is greater than the parts. 1 + 1 = 3. The best place to see it is in teams that are at the top of their game. It is very attractive and seductive, we all strive for it, fantastic to be a part of.

    Good sports teams have it. A cynic will say a winning Warriors team attracts larger audiences because they’re winning. Partly, but when that team is going off, Synergy on display, it’s fantastic to be around. When a sports team is doing poorly, in search of synergy, a popular move is to sack the coach. Has that ever worked?

    I think synergy comes about by first gathering skilful and loving people together. Skilful people at the top of their game always have a quotient of personal creativity that they bring with their skills….their magic. I think Synergy happens when one player’s magic interacts with another player’s magic.

    When a Lab/Green shadow caucus gets that stuff going on, NZ will drop at their feet.

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