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Open mike 04/01/2021

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, January 4th, 2021 - 77 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

77 comments on “Open mike 04/01/2021 ”

  1. mikesh 1

    I see that Mike Hosking is continuing to promote a crypto currency trading site. He claims, probably truthfully, that he is making large profits from his investments. One wonders what the source of these profits is. Or are these crypto currency investments just another 'ponzi' scheme, and due to crash at some point in the future.

  2. NOEL 2


    [Please explain why there are three different commenters here commenting from the same IP address.

    All three commenters have attracted the attention of different Moderators, which is usually not a good sign either.

    You may also want to explain why we should click on the link in this comment of yours, what to expect, why it is worth our time, what you think about it yourself, et cetera. Link dumping without a (brief) reason is spray & walkaway and a telltale sign of trolls who have no interest in engaging here.

    Failing to acknowledge and respond to this Moderation note will see you banned – Incognito]

    • Incognito 2.1

      See my Moderation note @ 8:06 AM.

    • NOEL 2.2

      Correcting Pats Bigger Fool.

      [Must try harder. You are wasting Moderator time. Put up or take a ban – Incognito]

      [Let’s see whether a short instructive ban has the desired effect in lieu of an explanation or satisfactory response. One week for each of the three aliases coming from the same IP address that you are using. See also Lprent’s Moderation note to you, which I suggest you take seriously if you don’t want to receive a longer more punitive ban in future – Incognito]

  3. xanthe 3

    Wouldn't it be great if there was a political movement working for the environment in New Zealand to support our personal efforts in this. Imagine what could have been achieved in the last two generations has such a movement focused on environmental matters.

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

    [please don’t troll my posts – weka]

    • xanthe 3.1

      well I do actually think it is relevant. we are all personally contributing to climate change because to a very large extent except for a very few privileged like ourselves we really have no choice. The answer does lie in collective action and in our democratic situation that means govt. The derailment of environmental concerns by the NZ green party is very significant contribution to climate change. That they have occupied that space without actually largely giving a shit is a devastating betrayal. sorry but it does have to be said and if thats me then so be it.

  4. Janet 4

    “NZ Herald 4 January 2021

    Pre-departure test move was inevitable – Prof Baker


    [please repost with a link for the bits you cut and paste – weka]

    • weka 4.1

      mod note

    • Janet 4.2

      Pre-departure test move was inevitable – Prof Baker


      So rather than a risk a lock-down and waste time and money pre testing, which will not be fool proof anyway, would it not be sensible to close the border while it is dominant?

      • Sacha 4.2.1

        Given the nature of viruses, this will not be the last significant mutation. Pre-flight testing makes little difference – all the other protective measures need to stay in place.

        • Janet

          I was meaning totally shut the door at the border while the virus is dominant .

          • lprent

            I'd agree with Sacha.

            There is nothing in this variant that should cause any more problems for us in terms of the existing MIQ. If it manages to break out of the quarantine, there are considerable defences behind that to constrain and quell outbreaks. An increase in transmission rates doesn't change anything with that.

            As Sacha says – this won't be the last significiant mutation or selection for this virus. We will be in some form of quarantine for quite a lot longer as the world learns to manage, contain and quell the virus – especially those areas in the world like the US, Russia, UK, and Brazil that have been far too irresponsible and blase about dealing with it

            Shutting the door won't increase the security of NZ because if this variant gives a selective advantage than it will become dominant world wide in areas without an effective quarantine – ie almost everywhere apart from here, Taiwan, and very few other countries (see map). So will later favourable mutations.

            We'd be better off doing what we have already – just dealing with it at the border and with the in depth outbreak defences internally.

            • Drowsy M. Kram

              We'd be better off doing what we have already – just dealing with it at the border and with the in depth outbreak defences internally.

              Agree that we should keep doing what's worked well so far, and implement any cost-effective improvements that may become available as pandemic responses 'bed in'.

              Pre-flight testing will give us a (very?) rough idea of how effective the new (15 January) precaution is at decreasing the number of COVID-carriers boarding flights to NZ. If, after a month or two, it turns out to be ineffective (and/or unnecessary), then by all means can it. The Australian federal government currently deems pre-flight UK testing unnecessary, so NZ is the Australasian guinea pig on this one.

              Taiwan's pre-flight precautions are interesting too.

              November 18, 2020
              Fall-winter COVID-19 prevention program to be launched on December 1; CECC urges the public and healthcare facilities to follow related measures

              On November 18, the Central Epidemic Command Center (CECC) announced that it would launch the Fall-winter COVID-19 Prevention Program on December 1 to enhance border quarantine control and to strengthen community prevention and medical response measures. The CECC urges the public and medical institutions to follow these measures.

              Program details are listed below.
              A. Border quarantine: all travelers coming to Taiwan and transit passengers are required to provide a certificate of a negative COVID-19 RT-PCR test result issued within three days prior to boarding the flight to Taiwan.

              Starting from December 1, 2020, until February 28, 2021 (local time at the place of departure), travelers arriving at airports in Taiwan or transit passengers at airports in Taiwan, regardless of nationality (Taiwanese nationals or foreign nationals) or travel purpose (studies, work, diplomatic or official business, or others) are all required to present a certificate of a negative COVID-19 RT-PCR test result issued within three days (working days) of boarding before they are allowed to board their flight to Taiwan. After travelers arrive in Taiwan, if following investigations find that travelers have provided a false or an incorrect test result or they refuse, evade or obstruct the related quarantine measures, such travelers may face a fine of between NT$10,000 to NT$150,000 [~NZ$7,400] according to Articles 58 and 69 of the Communicable Disease Control Act. Furthermore, the criminal liability of the Offenses of Forging Instruments or Seals may be imposed on such travelers for their act of providing a false or an incorrect test result.

              The CECC stated that a certificate of a negative COVID-19 RT-PCR test result must be issued by a medical institution deemed qualified by the local government in the traveler’s place of departure. In principle, such a certificate shall be written in English, Chinese, or both Chinese and English (bilingual version). Such a certificate shall include the following information: the name on the passport of the traveler, the date of birth or passport number of the traveler, specimen collection date and test report date, the virus name, testing method, and the result. Related details and measures to comply with are listed below.


  5. Sabine 5

    can you feel the economic anxiety of the white male working class? Or should we file it under 'a mobster is gonna mobster'?

    oh well, no one could have foreseen that voting for a shithead will result in shit being flung about everywhere and never mind the 350.000 dead people. But the economy aka the stock market is doing better then ever.


    Trump: OK, thank you very much. Hello Brad and Ryan and everybody. We appreciate the time and the call. So we’ve spent a lot of time on this and if we could just go over some of the numbers, I think it’s pretty clear that we won. We won very substantially in Georgia. You even see it by rally size, frankly. We’d be getting 25-30,000 people a rally and the competition would get less than 100 people. And it never made sense.

    But we have a number of things. We have at least 2 or 3 — anywhere from 250-300,000 ballots were dropped mysteriously into the rolls. Much of that had to do with Fulton County, which hasn’t been checked. We think that if you check the signatures — a real check of the signatures going back in Fulton County you’ll find at least a couple of hundred thousand of forged signatures of people who have been forged. And we are quite sure that’s going to happen……………………….

    Meadows: So Mr. President, if I might be able to jump in and I’ll give Brad a chance. Mr. Secretary, obviously there is, there are allegations where we believe that not every vote or fair vote and legal vote was counted and that’s at odds with the representation from the secretary of state’s office.

    What I’m hopeful for is there some way that we can we can find some kind of agreement to look at this a little bit more fully. You know the president mentioned Fulton County.

    But in some of these areas where there seems to be a difference of where the facts seem to lead, and so Mr. Secretary, I was hopeful that, you know, in the spirit of cooperation and compromise is there something that we can at least have a discussion to look at some of these allegations to find a path forward that’s less litigious?

    read the whole thing, or if you have the stomach listen to it. Mind its an hour long phone call featuring the mobster, his lawyers and the republican secretary of state of Georgia and their lawyers.

    good grief.

    • Andre 5.1

      In case anyone is curious what laws might be applicable, here's one:

      U.S. Code Title 52 (Voting and Elections), Section 20511 (relevant portions in bold):

      A person, including an election official, who in any election for Federal office-

      (1) knowingly and willfully intimidates, threatens, or coerces, or attempts to intimidate, threaten, or coerce, any person for-

      (A) registering to vote, or voting, or attempting to register or vote;

      (B) urging or aiding any person to register to vote, to vote, or to attempt to register or vote; or

      (C) exercising any right under this chapter; or

      (2) knowingly and willfully deprives, defrauds, or attempts to deprive or defraud the residents of a State of a fair and impartially conducted election process, by-

      (A) the procurement or submission of voter registration applications that are known by the person to be materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent under the laws of the State in which the election is held; or

      (B) the procurement, casting, or tabulation of ballots that are known by the person to be materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent under the laws of the State in which the election is held,

      shall be fined in accordance with title 18 (which fines shall be paid into the general fund of the Treasury, miscellaneous receipts (pursuant to section 3302 of title 31), notwithstanding any other law), or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.

      • Macro 5.1.1

        • Andre

          Well, searching for trump property in georgia turns up a lot of whiffy potential dealings in the former soviet country, but nothing that's actually gone ahead in the southern US state.

          So the Georgia authorities don't have anything they can hold hostage, and I've no idea what kind of extradition arrangements there are between states. Maybe Drongo Unbrained will just avoid Georgia for the rest of his life.

    • Sacha 5.2

      brief audio summary (for tone):

    • Sacha 5.3

      The foot-shooting continues..

      • NOEL 5.3.1

        That is one case he should loose.

        The "one consent law" has been around in the US for some time.

  6. Andre 6

    I really don't want to try to guess what kind of chatter is going around when all 10 living former Secretaries of Defense sign on to a letter saying the military has no place and no business in determining the outcome of an election.


    It's clear who the letter is aimed at – not the Tinyfingers Twittertwat, but those in the chain of command that might get asked or told to do something illegal.

    "Civilian and military officials who direct or carry out such measures would be accountable, including potentially facing criminal penalties, for the grave consequences of their actions on our republic," the letter states.

    • Sacha 6.1

      Where there's smoke, a nearby dolt is playing with matches.

      • shanreagh 6.1.1

        Where there's smoke, a nearby dolt is playing with matches.

        I invite Andre to tell us what kind of dolt. Sometimes I think the amount of product on his hair the usual one would be quite inflammable as well as being quite inflammable in other ways.

        • Andre

          Well, the Zodiac Killer son of JFK assassination co-conspirator immigrant preznit wannabe Ted Cruz swears he's not the one throwing matches around.

          I'm not sure it's wise to invite me to list the titles bestowed upon the failed QVC steak salesman that somehow became Dolt45, Supreme Dotard of Doltistan. It could take quite a while to cover the gamut, from the informal ones used by his friends, such as Donnie Two-Scoops, and "orange pustule on Pootee's sphincter", to those acknowledging his contributions to arts and culture such as "short-fingered vulgarian" and "genital-grabbing golem".

          You really wanna do this?

          • shanreagh

            Those are good…too many and it is like eating too much chocolate at a time. Makes my day, in a way, to see the day's name for the fiend!

    • Treetop 6.2

      Trump needs to go quietly. Nah not his style. With a bit of luck Trump can be managed for 18 days.

      I want to see if Trump will attend Biden's inauguration. I think not.

      • Andre 6.2.1

        At 12 noon on the 20th, I dunno what to put my money on for what the terracotta turdface will be doing.

        Clinging to the Resolute Desk in the Oval Office as the Secret Service comes in to remove trespassers?

        Supervising renovations at Mal-a-Plaguo coz he didn't like the ones Melanoma had done?

        Holding an "I wuz robbed" grievance rally somewhere in Drumpfuckistan?

        Fronting an all-day craptavaganza for the start-up of his new TV channel?

        Smearing his feces all over the second floor residential area walls?

        I certainly wouldn't put money on him quietly and respectfully attending Biden's inauguration, but if anyone else wants to put money on that, I'll take the bet.

        • Treetop

          So up until the second Biden is sworn in is Trump still the President?

          Your last paragraph says a lot. I plan to make an occasion of it to see Biden sworn in.

          Probably Biden has some options or a contingency were Trump to cause havoc.

          Knowing when Trump is no longer President will need to be considered. With a bit of luck from 11.59 pm on 19 January 2021.

  7. Phillip ure 7

    this clearly draws the lines between what we do to animals..

    and the pandemics we have had..have now..and will have again in the future..

    if we don't change our ways/diets..


    • Ed 7.1

      Thanks Phillip for your leadership here.

      I stopped eating meat 3 years ago because of climate change and animal cruelty.

      A welcome side effect is that a plant based diet is also excellent for one’s health.

      My nephew showed me the film ‘Earthlings ‘ which was the end of eating animals for me.

      • Phillip ure 7.1.1

        yes..I have much respect for films like 'earthlings'..

        so many people cite them as changing their lives..

        and what is not often talked about is how bloody good it feels to be a vegan..

        in the sense of how you feel within yourself..

        I was vegetarian for 15 yrs before going vegan..

        so I already knew that being vegetarian felt better than being a flesh-eaters..

        but my expectations for feeling even better from going vegan weren't much..

        and much to my surprise..the improvement in general feelings of wellbeing was far greater going vegan .. than it had been going from fleshie to vegetarian..

        and I really must emphasise..just how bloody good it feels to live on a vegan diet..

        ..and I love food..and I miss nothing..

        ..being vegan is almost decadent..the food is so good..

        ..and I feel so good…

        really..!..people don't know what they are missing..

        they could follow your path..

        and watch ‘earthlings’

        one for the vegan-curious..

        • Phillip ure

          current favourite vegan fast-food:


          slice a couple of vegan burger patties into slivers..

          ..and throw into frying pan/under grill..

          while they are cooking on the wrap put some vegan butter..then some vegemite .

          ..then some avocado..(squeeze a bit of lemon juice onto avo..and grind some black pepper onto it)

          then some hummus..then some tomato/sprouts/beetroot..and then some grated vegan cheese..

          then pile the cooked slivers on the top..and put some high quality tomato sauce on them..

          then roll it all up…

          it tastes really fucken good..

  8. halfcrown 8

    Whilst we are on about prisons and prisoners, let's all have a bit of thought for Assange who has suffered as an innocent person (by UK law a person is innocent until found guilty) gone though conditions worse than a convicted murderer because he brought to light and had the courage through Wiki Leaks to show what a pack of scum the American Administration are murdering innocent people

    The treatment and conditions he has had to go through have not been reported by the compliant media. who toe the rightwing vested interest line. Today is the day we find out after months of torture if he will be extradited to America to live the rest of his life possibly in confinement and subject to further torture because he had the courage to report to the world what really was going on. So on that note fuck the Herald, Stuff, The backstabbing Guardian, RNZ, TVNZ Media Works and all the other pathetic outlets that pass themselves off as news outlets, stuff the lot of you for not having the courage like this guy to report what has been going on or protesting for the future freedom of the press.

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

    [lprent: Hey, fuckwit (to quote an expression of yours from a previous comment) – Banned for 4 weeks. This was completely off topic in my post about prison conditions in NZ.

    Bad idea taking a risk like that. Bearing in mind that Assange just had a excellent reprieve, I thought that your effort deserved a reward for stupidity – you won’t be able to comment here. I suspect that will enhance the discussion considerably.

    BTW: please complain. I like judging ranting morons people who shout at others and try to trash my posts with off topic comments. ]

    • Red 8.1

      Do the crime, do the time, especially if you try to evade justice by hiding out in a foreign embassy, hardly the actions of an innocent man awaiting his time in court

      • halfcrown 8.1.1

        So I take it then dickhead reporting the truth is now a crime is it? What other crimes has he done? apart from the so-called jacked-up rape charges and what trail has he attended and been found guilty?

        • Sacha

          Cmon can we please not drag up that guy again. Had more than enough of the topic last year. I doubt anyone here is learning anything new by now.

        • Red

          Halfdick He had a rape charge in Sweden, plus faces 18 federal charges in the US including espionage and hacking He took a risk got caught, face the music and prove his innocence in a court of law He Just needs to suck it up, like you need do as well and not hide in the basement South American embassy or spin bs he is a journalist

          • Brigid

            You're so hopelessly ignorant of the matter I cant even be bothered correcting you. For fucks sake go do a bit of research. Just to start your off there was no rape charge.

            • Red

              Note, “he had” ( past tense)

              he “still “ faces 18 US federal charges, hope this helps with your comprehension Brigid

              • lprent

                he “still “ faces 18 US federal charges,

                Assuming that the US is able to extradite him on appeal. Which seems like a hard ask because they have to prove that the UK district court judge got it wrong on the probability of suicide within the inhumane US supermax prison system.

                Most of the charges look spurious. Since none of them have been tested in a US court of law (Grand Juries being a useless farce governed only by a prosecutor and definitely not a court), I suspect that the federal prosecution would be a comedic farce. What will be certain is that they will drag on for years with freedom of the press and major jurisdictional issues.

  9. Poission 9

    There is a nice bit of good scientific forecasting for the NH stratosphere,that is now underway,a sudden stratospheric warming (SSW) the Arctic vortex should split,and concomitant with a negative Arctic oscillation should see some significant cold events over NH mid and high latitudes.

    SSW is called that for a reason.

  10. Sacha 10

    Assange not extradited from UK because of suicide risk in a US prison.

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