Open mike 04/02/2023

47 comments on “Open mike 04/02/2023 ”

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1. kejo 1

   4 February 2023 at 8:03 am

   Was watching youtube. The Guardian Its Complicated series. "Why Rivers Shouldnt Look Like This" seemed relevant to Aucklands recent woes.
   • Drowsy M. Kram 1.1

     4 February 2023 at 8:15 am

     Links:

     Classic example of shifting baseline syndrome. We’ve been raised with a contemporary idea of what nature is supposed to look like, so we don’t realise the natural complexity that’s been lost

     https://www.theguardian.com/environment/video/2023/jan/26/why-rivers-shouldnt-look-like-this-video
     • kejo 1.1.1

       4 February 2023 at 8:47 am

       Thanks D
     • PsyclingLeft.Always 1.1.2

       4 February 2023 at 9:07 am

       Who: Tom Logan, University of Canterbury senior lecturer in civil systems engineering

       The big idea: Fund the removal of communities from flood-prone places

       Entire towns and neighbourhoods around New Zealand – they're going to have to move and relocate out of hazard zones over the next several decades."

       https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/in-depth/483551/what-now-for-auckland-four-ideas-for-a-more-climate-resilient-city

       We absolutely need ..fresh thinking. Repeating the same mistakes .. is never going to be a good result
       • Hunter Thompson II 1.1.2.1

         5 February 2023 at 10:37 am

         "Repeating the same mistakes .. is never going to be a good result"

         – unless you're a politician …
     • UncookedSelachimorpha 1.1.3

       4 February 2023 at 12:02 pm

       I live in a valley where the dairy farmers have done exactly this to the main river in the valley – removed all the oxbows and turned it into a straight drain. And it is a major river, not just a creek.

       Mostly done without any consents.
       • PsyclingLeft.Always 1.1.3.1

         4 February 2023 at 2:35 pm

         Some of them sadly, a LAWA unto themselves.

         https://www.lawa.org.nz/explore-data/swimming/

         It is worth though, trying to alert your Regional Council…if someone who will listen and follow up ?. I have done it..hard going but there are people who care. Just gotta find them.
       • pat 1.1.3.2

         4 February 2023 at 8:45 pm

         Not too many dairy farms in the Auckland metro area
     • gsays 1.1.4

       4 February 2023 at 2:02 pm

       I found this conversation fascinating, Annie Proulx on RNZ last year.

       https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/2018863293/annie-proulx-how-swamps-can-protect-us-and-the-planet
       • Patricia Bremner 1.1.4.1

         4 February 2023 at 5:15 pm

         Yes, saw a great British programme about this by a regenerative farmer doing similar. He turned a swampy area into wetlands to encourage plants and wildlife, and noted how it mitigated flood events.
         • Hunter Thompson II 1.1.4.1.1

           5 February 2023 at 3:40 pm

           Looks like something similar is occurring in Oz: see https://www.peterandrewsoam.com/

           A good plan if they are to get out of the cycle of bush fires followed by floods.
2. kejo 2

   4 February 2023 at 8:06 am

   liked comment 703 "shifting baseline syndrome'
3. Francesca 3

   4 February 2023 at 8:19 am

   Trouble for Turkey ahead ?

   https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/turkey-take-dirty-hands-off-interior-minister-us-envoy

   Elections this year, and Erdogan has had a target on his back since the coup attempt in 2016.
   Turkey is too valuable geographically to kick out of Nato, but Erdogan?? Surely a replacement favourable to western purposes can be found?

   https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/7/15/turkeys-failed-coup-attempt-all-you-need-to-know
   • mikesh 3.1

     4 February 2023 at 9:05 am

     Surely a replacement favourable to western purposes can be found?

     Found by whom?
     • Francesca 3.1.1

       4 February 2023 at 9:31 am

       Guess. Not hard

       Regime change are us
4. tc 4

   4 February 2023 at 8:26 am

   Fran asking for critics to ease up on brown cos he's apologized.

   Diddums for Mr fixit and his backers.

   Aucklands funding experienced DP spin doctor's now aside from these granny soapboxes….wake up citizens.
   • PsyclingLeft.Always 4.1

     4 February 2023 at 9:14 am

     https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/fran-osullivan-its-time-to-cut-auckland-mayor-wayne-brown-some-slack/2EKAHR4FVVA2NFCB4N6WSGYX54/

     Fran…Herald head… of Business is obviously of that mind. And fully accepting of Mayor "Buckets" Brown's….responses.

     Naturally.

     Meanwhile…nearly everyone else just sees him as one man leading a train wreck.

     Michael Wood….into it ! Shine on : )
5. Peter 5

   4 February 2023 at 10:33 am

   A Herald story about overseas workers' accommodation got me thinking.

   I wonder if the beneficiaries of the presence of those workers holiday in the home islands of the workers. Which would mean in a weird way the labour and the money for accommodation of those people would be paying for 5 Star resort vacation accommodation for the Kiwi employers.

   https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/local-focus-inside-rse-worker-accommodation-where-four-bedrooms-can-earn-landlords-3500-a-week/WNCJNH4CJVB55BEZNFPP6MTCAE/
6. Belladonna 6

   4 February 2023 at 1:04 pm

   And this is a big part of what I think is wrong about the RSE scheme – with little effective oversight or regulation.

   Not a problem with dorm-style accommodation for short-stay workers (I, too have done youth hostelling while I picked fruit in my early 20s.
   And some of the purpose-built ones in the article, look excellent.

   But price-gouging for it when the workers effectively have no alternatives (they have no local connections to arrange housing, and are dependent on their employer to transport them to work) – is outrageous.

   https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/local-focus-inside-rse-worker-accommodation-where-four-bedrooms-can-earn-landlords-3500-a-week/WNCJNH4CJVB55BEZNFPP6MTCAE/

   Given that these RSE workers are entirely to the benefit of the farmers – who are, we are told, desperate for workers – then the farmers should be covering the costs (good luck to the labour company trying to gouge them!) – and the housing should be covered by the employer, rather than the RSE workers.

   While they claim they are heavily regulated by the government, the reality appears to be very different.
   • Craig H 6.1

     4 February 2023 at 10:05 pm

     Absolutely agree – I used to work for Immigration NZ/MBIE, and my observation of the oversight of the RSE scheme was that as long as it was technically legal (a cynical type might use the term 'pretty legal'…), there was no interest in the higher-ups in pushing for change or doing anything about it. I sincerely hope that Michael Wood pushes through a major overhaul of the accommodation side of things particularly as it is desperately needed.
7. Anne 7

   4 February 2023 at 1:24 pm

   Wayne Brown said he and his staff were not on the Emergency Management list of email recipients and did not get the updates on Friday week ago so [presumably] didn't know how serious it was getting. Fair enough but:

   1) Would it not have been the responsibility of someone in council to have their names added to the list?

   2) Do they not read online news… do they not listen to the radio news… do they not watch TV news?

   3) Do they not answer their phones?

   Sorry, but that comes across to me as a rather lame excuse.

   https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300799436/auckland-mayor-says-he-wasnt-on-emergency-email-list-as-flood-waters-rose
   • Bruce 7.1

     4 February 2023 at 1:34 pm

     Also, don't they also look out the window, join the dots that something major is happening and ask thr right questions of the right people.

     [Well, this is unfortunate and confusing, 2 Bruce’s commenting at the same time. Is there a particular reason why you don’t use your full user name that you have used previously here on TS? – Incognito]
     • Bruce 7.1.1

       4 February 2023 at 5:45 pm

       yea That would work
     • Incognito 7.1.2

       4 February 2023 at 6:14 pm

       Mod note
   • Sanctuary 7.2

     4 February 2023 at 3:08 pm

     The equivalent of "the dog ate my homework" defense.
8. joe90 8

   4 February 2023 at 1:33 pm

   How a far-right con man moved on to the gullible dimwits in the anti-vaccine movement.

   /

   And even if more platforms block Peters, he has unleashed something that is much harder to control. The phrase “died suddenly” has taken on a life of its own. In late January, anti-vaccine activists began claiming that Damar Hamlin had died and that his death was being covered up. After Damar Hamlin made a public appearance and a video to assure the public that he was very much alive and recovering, Peters suggested on his show that the video was a “deep fake.” In his public appearance, Hamlin “never took his hood down, never took his mask off, never dropped the ugly rap video shades,” Peters said. “I’m just not buying it.” On January 27, Peters tweeted, “Everyone telling me to ‘lay off’ the Damar Hamlin FAKE ‘appearance’ at the playoff game is a victim of Fox News programming.” The tweet received more than 1,000 retweets

   https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2023/02/stew-peters-the-far-right-bounty-hunter-behind-the-explosive-success-of-died-suddenly/
   • PsyclingLeft.Always 8.1

     4 February 2023 at 2:28 pm

     Peters was a speaker at the 2022 America First Political Action Conference, where he called for the murders of Anthony Fauci (lynched by hanging)…..

     https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stew_Peters

     What a POS ! : (
9. Visubversa 9

   4 February 2023 at 2:55 pm

   "In the height of irony, USRowing chose to protect fairness based on sex in only one racing category: mixed events. In these competitions, men and women race together in the same boat. USRowing specified that such boats must be 50 percent female. It is the only event in which female sex is an eligibility requirement. Without this sex requirement, a mixed boat could be comprised entirely of males, some of whom identify as women; such a boat would possess an unfair advantage over a boat comprised of 50 percent males and 50 percent females. Hence, in a move that can certainly be viewed as misogynistic, USRowing defined eligibility based on sex only when not doing so could make competition unfair for males."

   https://www.newsweek.com/usrowing-denies-fairness-female-athletes-opinion-1777151?fbclid=IwAR1MxEZjRdLVCMe2Egd3aS2pss3kaUUj8Nemf0bALFwjm3SYjXN2i35BhCI
   • alwyn 9.1

     4 February 2023 at 6:03 pm

     " It is the only event in which female sex is an eligibility requirement."

     Tennis has had mixed doubles events since forever.

     In Athletics at the Tokyo Olympics in 2021 there was a mixed 4 x 400 metre relay. Each team had 2 men and 2 women. It was quite interesting watching the different order the teams used. It made quite a difference in the changeovers as a man passing to a woman came in a lot faster than the outgoing runner could manage and she might be run into. On the other hand if the women ran the early legs they left the men having to pass a lot of runners in the later laps.

     In my much younger days I ran in a lot of relays, and had been very interested in trying to decide on the best order of runners, and I couldn't make up my mind on what the best strategy would be in this event.
     • Brigitte 9.1.1

       4 February 2023 at 8:11 pm

       I also thought about the best order. Given the baton changeover is within a range (10m? I think) you would want the slowest runners to take the baton at the very latest point and then pass it on at the earliest point at the next changeover. Given there's only one baton change for the first and last runners, the order would be (1=fastest) 2-4-1-3 to maximise the use of the changeover zone. At least that was my conclusion. (And this works for any relay, not just mixed ones.)
     • Visubversa 9.1.2

       4 February 2023 at 8:33 pm

       The article is not talking about every event in the sporting calendar. It is about the events covered by USRowing.
       Your “handmaidening” is misplaced.
     • Belladonna 9.1.3

       4 February 2023 at 10:55 pm

       I think you may not have read the article.

       "Tennis has had mixed doubles events since forever."

       But has Tennis specified that only women born female my compete in Female events? Or opened this up to trans-women as well?

       The issue with Rowing is that *only* the mixed crews have the requirement for born female. The female-only events are required to admit trans-women.

       Which is deeply unfair. At a biological level, people who have gone through puberty as male, have a lifetime physiological sporting advantage. No subsequent change in sex hormones can erase this.

       If Rowing are admitting this for mixed crews (and that can be the only justification for their decision), it is deeply biased to refuse to admit it for female only crews.
10. joe90 10

    4 February 2023 at 8:15 pm

    The business of monetising misery hits a new low.

    (and life imitates art https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jigsaw_Man )

    A new bill introduced in Massachusetts would allow bone marrow and organ donations from incarcerated people in exchange for a reduction in their sentences.

    The bill establishing a “Bone Marrow and Organ Donation Program” was put forward by State Representatives Carlos González and Judith A. García on January 20. It would grant people held in Massachusetts Department of Corrections facilities a sentence reduction between 60 days and a year in exchange for the donations.

    https://www.vice.com/en/article/y3p8k5/lawmakers-want-prisoners-to-trade-their-organs-and-bone-marrow-for-freedom
    • joe90 10.1

      4 February 2023 at 8:58 pm

      hits a new low.

      Hold all tickets…..

      https://www.liveaction.org/news/bioethicist-proposes-brain-dead-women-surrogates/
      • Belladonna 10.1.1

        4 February 2023 at 10:59 pm

        Sounds as though the 'Ethicist' part of her role appears to be missing.
        • Incognito 10.1.1.1

          5 February 2023 at 4:49 pm

          Did you read the original paper in the journal Theoretical Medicine and Bioethics?

          It appears not to be the case, in your case, and your response is less than paperweight without any critical analysis or commentary. This is how you prefer dealing with complex and controversial issues?

          What do you consider the roles of ethicist and of academic entail? To stay neatly within and a safe distance from the boundaries of what is morally acceptable and comfortable to the majority of people and to appease the general public?

          What I put forward here can be viewed as a thought experiment on one hand. But if we regard WBGD [whole body gestational donation] as being clearly outrageous, this suggests we have some uncomfortable questions to answer about the future of cadaveric organ donation.

          https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11017-022-09599-8 [Open Access]
          • Belladonna 10.1.1.1.1

            5 February 2023 at 6:13 pm

            Nope. I read the article as linked.

            Are you also addressing your critique to Joe90 – who provided the link (with neither analysis nor commentary)?

            And, yes, I do regard 'morally acceptable' as a reasonable expectation from an academic. We have history in the 20th century of what happens otherwise (eugenics, humans as experimental animals, etc.)

            Of course, that's just an opinion. Yours may differ.
            • joe90 10.1.1.1.1.1

              5 February 2023 at 6:49 pm

              (with neither analysis nor commentary)?

              You can offer analysis/commentary on shitty takes?
              • Belladonna …

                5 February 2023 at 7:01 pm

                Incognito appears to think so.
                • Incognito …

                  5 February 2023 at 7:34 pm

                  Yup, a shitty take on a shitty take is just that but some commenters seem to get off on that. And then others can and do join into the shit fest and start throwing mud at each other hoping that it will stick. Seems to sum up a number of threads here on TS. Why no join Twatter or TokTok instead?
            • Incognito 10.1.1.1.1.2

              5 February 2023 at 9:30 pm

              Yes, I have a very different opinion of the role (duty & responsibility) of academics and especially of ethicists and other philosophers. A society that shies away from debating complex controversial ethical issues is more prone to making those decisions that you mention with horrible consequences. No-debate and stick-your-head-in-the-sand attitudes are a killer, literally. Dogmatic authoritarian governments passively and actively (sometimes aggressively) discourage such discourse.

              The comment by joe90 was very different from yours. Enough said.
              • Belladonna …

                6 February 2023 at 8:17 pm

                "Hold all tickets" is a valid critical analysis and/or commentary.

                I'll remember for the future.
                • Incognito …

                  6 February 2023 at 9:29 pm

                  Your false logic leads you to erroneous conclusions. I say it again: your comment about the ethicist’s role was very different and a little more specific than joe90’s. You can tell from my responses to your comments. Why are you having such difficulty following this??
    • SPC 10.2

      5 February 2023 at 5:06 pm

      The USA allows payment for sperm and for women to operate as surrogates. But they only allow pay for sex in the making of porn (because it is part of their freedom of expression/speech – just do not mention the Hays Code and censorship of left wingers from government jobs).

      They also have plea bargains, where those who do not think they will get a fair trial can confess their guilt for the bribe of a reduced sentence (than would occur after a conviction). Post conviction deals usually involve early parole for narking.

      China is accused of taking stuff from prisoners, though without consent or any deals.

      But then China is also a market for wearable headbands that identify the brainwave activity frequency (wireless) of the worker/student to a machine. The stuff is made in the USA by a start-up (MIT and Harvard associated) the Chinese invested in. It’s a whole new world of machine-brain interface. Imagine the future ability to regulate education and employment to ensure compliance to authority.
    • SPC 10.3

      7 February 2023 at 11:50 pm
11. Eco Maori 11

    5 February 2023 at 8:08 am

    Ka te aha Whano there still being a pain in my you know what.

    Ma te wa whano they will learn just WHOM they are stuffing with.
    • Maurice 11.1

      5 February 2023 at 10:09 am

      A wee look at Scots, Irish and Welsh history can be very instructive.

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