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Open mike 04/04/2020

Written By: - Date published: 7:00 am, April 4th, 2020 - 100 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

100 comments on “Open mike 04/04/2020 ”

  1. adam 1

    The virus may scear you – but capitalism's latest round of failure and ever growing monopolies should make you mad.

    • Ad 1.1

      Do you mean 'scare' or 'scar'?

      And by 'mad' to you mean insane, or angry?

      And which monopolies are you speaking of?

    • Stunned Mullet 1.2

      Which failures and monopolies are you thinking of in particular ?

      • adam 1.2.1

        Have you got your head in the clouds Stunned Mullet?

        No one is unemployed.

        There is no bailout

        Everything is fine

        • Stunned Mullet 1.2.1.1

          You must have misunderstood my question… or I misunderstood what you were trying to say.

          I thought there were some particular monopolies you were concerned about ?

          …and not sure how capitalism or indeed any particular 'ism' is to blame for the current crisis.

          • adam 1.2.1.1.1

            Nothing is wrong in Stunned Mullets world.

            I never pointed our particulars.

            You seem to be avoiding the economic crisis for some odd reason, you know 600 people lost their jobs today.

            That had nothing to do with the economic structure we live under ah Stunned Mullet??!?

  2. Reality 2

    A must read – Andrew Gunn’s brilliant satire on Mike Hosking in the Dominion Post. It’s worth reading over and over and over again. Andrew Gunn will not be on Hosking’s invitation to a barbecue at his mansion any time soon.

  3. ScottGN 3

    Probably show up on Stuff later.

  4. joe90 4

    Mutiny in the mking.

    • Andre 4.1

      It's probably a good thing that Nostradumbass can't see far enough to realise he needs to not piss off the military. Especially if he's got any ideas of staying on after the voters reject him or he reaches the end of the time allowed by the constitution.

    • dv 4.2

      Yep and US has just passed 30k new cases today!!!

    • Treetop 4.3

      I would like to know who he did cc to on his email. Apparently it was a lot (over 10) he would have known his job was on the line and some people would not of wanted to make the hard call like he did.

      Not sure if Trump will want him charged with something. Hope that Captain Crozier does not lose his military severance.

  5. joe90 5

    Fighting for every life.

    /

    Everyone wants a hero in a time of crisis. But while Cuomo has certainly been willing to play the part (convincingly enough that a few folks even want him to run for president), what he’s done away from the cameras is telling: using $2/hour prison labor to rebottle hand sanitizer, refusing to release elderly and sick incarcerated persons from Riker’s Island, and slashing Medicaid rather than raising taxes on the 0.01 wealthiest New Yorkers. These aren’t the sorts of measures that would save lives in this crucial moment, and they certainly won’t prevent future crises from happening.

    But hey, the PowerPoints are great.

    https://www.theroot.com/andrew-cuomo-is-trash-1842641091?

    • millsy 5.1

      I believe that I pointed out Coumo's austerity policies not long after he was first elected as New York governor about a decade ago.

  6. Reality 6

    Bearded Git – not the same one. I don’t know if Andrew Gunn’s is on Stuff and I don’t know how to do a link.

    • JanM 6.1

      Just google it that's how I found it

    • No worries Reality-see above.

    • Incognito 6.3

      Hmmm, you have been commenting here for over 3 years.

      When you viewing the content that you’re citing/quoting, go to the address bar at the top and highlight the address (AKA URL, it usually starts with “https://***** “), copy it, and paste it into your comment.

  7. joe90 7

    Kinsley gaffe: when a politician tells the truth – some obvious truth he isn't supposed to say.

  8. Anthony Rimell 8

    A question: for a while there was talk of a UBI being introduced – even temporarily – to ease people through this crisis. That talk seems to have subsided.

    Setting aside whether people think it's a good or a bad idea, has anyone heard anything more on this? Or was it more of a twiteratti idea, floated by some and quickly lost sight of?

    • KJT 8.1

      It already has been to a large extent.

      To all the contractors sole traders, business employees and at risk people who cannot work at present.

    • lprent 8.2

      Nothing that I have seen. But I’d also say that there really isn’t and hasn’t been enough time to plan it even if it was on the table. To implement it would months if not years just in the software alone.

      For what it happening now, you’re limited to existing channels.

      • Poission 8.2.1

        To implement it would months if not years just in the software alone.

        Especially when software designers forget they have an edit function,to resolve mostly duplicated posts.

      • Craig H 8.2.2

        IRD could pay it easily – they already pay working for families, so they have the system for it

        • Janet 8.2.2.1

          Yep , where theres a will theres a way …. so it appears no will.

        • lprent 8.2.2.2

          Not the same… And rather too simplistic.

          Working for families is specific to a group. It has rules and a database attached to implement it.

          What is the system for people who are not in working for families? Because WFF is a specific kind of tax code with a system and data store created specifically for the set of rules for that.

          Remember that working for families took more than a year to implement on the old computer, and anecdotally almost as long on the new system.

          They probably won’t have as much internal programming wiring to do. But they still have to get all of the other supporting systems in place. Then they have to load millions of data points into the system.

          Basically plan on it taking at least a year once the policy is laid down. To do anything less is essentially guaranteed to make it fail.

          Not to mention that there would have to be a pretty strong political debate. Personally I remain quite unconvinced that a UBI is a particularly good system for delivering any kind of useful outcome, and I have been reading about mutually contradictory versions here for a decade.

          Sounds more like a religious slogan than something that is implementable into something useful for the whole of our society.

          I’m also picking that the announcement of any specific UBI proposal will immediately trigger a war between the supporters of it because no proposal is going to satisfy any of its supporters. And that is before the skeptics get to look at it.

          • Craig H 8.2.2.2.1

            Supposedly START is faster to update than FIRST was, but a key difference here would be that the database is everyone or all natural persons, not an application process for a subset with specific criteria.

            Agree that long term UBI needs a different debate to a short term grant. Perhaps a simpler option then is to increase benefits and other support so unemployment doesn't hurt so much.

            Another option would be to hand out some one-off grants. That could be managed through income tax refunds – just make the minimum refund $1000, or $1000 for income < a figure TBD.

            • lprent 8.2.2.2.1.1

              Agree that long term UBI needs a different debate to a short term grant. Perhaps a simpler option then is to increase benefits and other support so unemployment doesn't hurt so much.

              That would be my pick – an existing channel.

              That could be managed through income tax refunds..

              That really isn't an existing channel.

              I haven't filed a income tax statement in more than two decades. I haven't needed to. PAYE, witholding taxes, and these days even the close balance between costs and revenue on my rented out apartment haven't required me to.

              Every 2-3 years I rough cut my possible tax return as an exercise and it winds up with trivial amounts that the government would have to return to me. I write it off as just another donation like – well – my taxes.

              It simply isn't even worth my time to calculate or dispute or even to try to figure out how to avoid with all of the aggravating fiddling. If I want to change tax systems, I'll usually just advocate for it rather than waste the tax departments time.

              While I'm sure that the IRD is aware of a few of my bank accounts, they have no idea of where to place refunds. They certainly don't have a tax refund process for a whole swath of people like me who are usually reasonably well paid, don't have significiant periods of unemployment, and who haven't felt that it is worth their time wrangling fewer taxes through refunds.

              There will also be a whole range of people who don’t file returns because their income is too low to make it worthwhile.

              Imagine having to try to build a refund system for what will be (conservatively) half of the working population who never file returns nor receive refunds.

              Kiwisaver would probably be a wider spread – but what good does sticking refunds in there do for the day-to-day.

              • Craig H

                As of last year, all taxpayers receive a personal tax summary (income statement is the legal term) if they are not IR3 filers, so the mechanism is there now to do that if government really wants to. If you didn't get a refund or a bill, either IRD don't have a current bank a/c (but Kiwisaver transfers from providers to IRD normally include a standard bank a/c number, so they might have that) or you owed them <$20 so it was written off automatically.

                Couple that with an advertising campaign, and it might work. Probably the easiest method would be to increase the Independent Earner Tax Credit since that already exists, so income parameters can be adjusted, rather than having to add something new to the system.

                Probably easier to just pay higher benefits/TAS though.

    • millsy 8.3

      Robertson said that it was being considered. I'm picking that we will hear more about it later on.

  9. Considering what I view as pointed minority faux outrage over example setting, bike rides, bubble bursting and not following advice, and noting the increase of insulting bad language being used here over the past week, like calling others wankers, twats and cunts, maybe a stronger adherence to the edict of be kinder to each other may be in order.

  10. Andre 11

    Profiles in Leadership. If a self-culling base is what you're after.

    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump-coronavirus-social-distancing-golf_n_5e87c167c5b6cc1e47754e1a

  11. Bill 12

    Yeah…

    Her son, who lives in a flat with five others, has been self-isolating in a unit next door since he fell sick.

    To her shock, none of his flatmates were required to be tested as no one had shown any flu-like symptoms, she said.

    "I was just surprised [that's the advice] when he's been living with them all this time and especially when they keep saying: 'Test, test, test'.

    But you know what?

    "There is no point testing people who don't have symptoms, who are unlikely to have the illness." – David Clark.

    • Andre 12.1

      It appears the tests have a problem with producing a lot of false negatives. Possibly especially among the asymptomatic. So while they are still resource constrained and not yet even testing all those presenting with symptoms, it's easy to see how it's not considered worthwhile testing those without symptoms.

      Conventional diagnostic tests for the novel coronavirus may give false-negative results about 30% of the time, meaning people with an active COVID-19 infection still test negative for the disease, according to news reports.

      In one scenario, the initial swab sample may not always collect enough genetic material to provide an accurate test. This problem may arise more often in patients who do not show many symptoms at the time of their test, the Globe reported. In addition, the standard nasopharyngeal swab, wherein a long instrument is wriggled and rotated to the very back of the nasal cavity, can be both difficult for clinicians to perform and uncomfortable for patients to endure, Krumholz wrote.

      https://www.livescience.com/covid19-coronavirus-tests-false-negatives.html

      https://www.businessinsider.com.au/false-negative-coronavirus-test-accuracy-rates-worry-experts-report-2020-4?r=US&IR=T

      • Bill 12.1.1

        Yup. The tests developed in Germany ain't flash on the false negative front. But they're 100% accurate on the positive result side.

        By the reasoning you present, then trace, track and test ain't gonna happen, and if there's no testing, then Shelter in Place ain't going to have the desired outcome and we'll wind up in the same place as we would have with a Social Distancing strategy. (ie – ~ 70% infection rate)

        • McFlock 12.1.1.1

          So the question comes down to whether people who are asymptomatic but worried are more likely to adequately self isolate than 30% who are asymptomatic but infected and received an all-clear.

          • bill 12.1.1.1.1

            I believe the result of a negative is relayed as "not found" (some such wording at any rate) – this from a friend who was tested. So not an unequivocal "all clear".

            • McFlock 12.1.1.1.1.1

              Point still stands.

              False negatives are a problem for screening tests because people treat it like an all-clear. False positives are a problem for diagnostic tests because they result in unnecessary treatment.

              • bill

                No. My friend isn't treating it as an "all clear". And there are no false positives with the tests being used that were developed in Germany.

                • McFlock

                  Copy that. Your friend is typical of literally every person ever tested, therefore you must be correct. Yay.

                  And there are very few tests with zero false positives. I'm sure you checked out the ROC charts on the German test before making that claim, though, so yay for you again.

                  • bill

                    I couldn't say whether they are typical or atypical. I can only relay their reaction to being given a test result that was worded in such a way as to preserved a measure of uncertainty in their mind.

                    On the German test, I'm simply repeating what Michael Osterholm (infectious disease epidemiologist, regents professor, and director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at the University of Minnesota. ) has said regards its sensitivity – given his field of expertise I thought it reasonable enough to take him at his word, but hey…

                    • McFlock

                      So your anecdata is irrelevant.

                      As for your comment about the German test, what was the good professor's exact comment? ISTR Roche was touting 95% accuracy, not perfection. Or was Osterholm talking about some other German-developed testing protocol?

          • weka 12.1.1.1.2

            So the question comes down to whether people who are asymptomatic but worried are more likely to adequately self isolate than 30% who are asymptomatic but infected and received an all-clear.

            The bit I think is lacking is that people living in the same house should be physically distancing within the household if one of them has tested positive. But I don't think that is what is happening? It's a problem if any of them are going out to work.

            • McFlock 12.1.1.1.2.1

              I think there are guides on physically distancing from flatmates etc, but yeah – if someone in your house is infected, probably don't go to work would be my thinking. No matter what you do, you could well end up infecting other essential workers.

      • McFlock 12.1.2

        Screening test vs diagnostic test.

        Which also explains why the govt was saying they have sufficient tests, but people are complaining they didn't get tested.

  12. observer 13

    Evidence that the lockdown is working:

    1) As per the latest Bloomfield Briefing, the curve is flattening. Very early signs, but that's what we're aiming for, and it's starting to happen.

    2) The Spin-Off reports on our reduced contact

    Well done New Zealand. Let's keep it up.

  13. Peter 14

    A depiction of a silly person showing their economic model doesn't work. It works how it's supposed to work, how the market has determined it works.

    Somewhere down the line when she finds it's not working in the way she wants it to be working she's demanding it change to operate in a different way. Of course in the current awful situation no-one's going to tell her to get off the grass especially the guy she's interviewing. She doesn't get it and even if she were told she probably still wouldn't get it.

    For his trouble of doing what life has taught him to do, make money, he's called a traitor. Apparently though patriotism is a big thing, the most important thing. How did that go for career civil servants in the impeachment thing when patriotism had them coming forward looking after their country? This silly woman was probably calling them traitors too.

    They don't want globalisation, they want to be self-sufficient. They want American companies operating off-shore making millions through cheap labour and also want to export stuff to other countries. Why don't they put a wall around the whole place? That'll stop masks escaping.

  14. Good to know Bill Maher will be back on screen tonight (our time).

    Looks like a good remote panel line up.

    Guests will include Willie Nelson, Los Angeles mayor Eric Garcetti, author Max Brooks, Seth MacFarlane and Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders.

    • McFlock 15.1

      Never been one for Bill Maher. But it has been interesting watching chat shows without the studio audience, and the subtle changes to delivery that entails. The Daily Show is doing some interesting stuff, and John Oliver is largely doing the usual lol.

  15. adam 16

    Just remember when you buy from Amazon they get to do this.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyLT_NUFJN8&ab_channel=TheJimmyDoreShow

  16. joe90 17

    heh

  17. Incognito 19

    Within their bubbles near Christchurch, Sullivan and a colleague have noticed less road kill, evidence of a reduced impact by humans on animals.

    Coronavirus: What's happening to NZ wildlife when humans locked down

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/science/120759079/coronavirus-whats-happening-to-nz-wildlife-when-humans-locked-down

    • Koff 19.1

      Not sure what 'NZ widlife' could be road kill, except possibly kiwi in parts of Northland where the numbers have increased with effective predator control recently. The only roadkill on NZ roads are introduced mammals like possums, rabbits and hedgehogs. That means they are probably surviving more and with probably next to no predator control being done, could be an environmental disaster in the making. Noticed the seagulls were looking hungry up at Waitangi the last week with no tourists chucking them chips or sandwichs to eat. The one place that will definitely benefit by hugely reduced traffic will be in Oz where some roads are normally splattered by dead wombats, wallabies, echidnas etc.!

      • Incognito 19.1.1

        You didn’t read the link, did you?

        • Koff 19.1.1.1

          Yes,I did. It's somewhat of a hodgepodge of an article, but the general message is that nature is getting a bit of a reprieve in may places in varied ways, even the climate. NZ's a bit of a outlier because of the pressure from non-native species. I would have thought that marine life generally will benefit from far fewer amateur fishers and boaties out on the water.

          • Incognito 19.1.1.1.1

            Ok, I couldn’t quite tell from your previous comment @ 19.1 if you had read it.

            For example, the opening paragraph of the article is:

            Scientists are expecting subtle changes in New Zealand wildlife behaviour during these extraordinary times but are frustrated that fieldwork is banned and they can only observe within their bubbles. [my italics]

            See the connection to what I quoted @ 19?

            In national parks and other conservation areas, human presence is usually low, not including the Great Walks and the like. But 1080 operations have reportedly ceased and there will be knock-on effects from this.

            This relates to the “predator control” and the “environmental disaster in the making” in NZ that you mentioned @ 19.1.

            The piece also touches on the balance between native and non-native species here in NZ in the last two paragraphs.

            Taken together, it is a large-scale ‘experiment’ without observers in the field. I think this could be a missed opportunity to learn from because the ‘experiment’ will hopefully be short-lived.

  18. RedLogix 20

    Having spoken to the culpability of the CCP frequently, I'm going to balance the books with Joe Rogan talking with Eric Weinstein on what is happening in the USA. I've started the link at 14:22 and the next 40 min is probably the guts of it:

  19. Anne 21

    It is high time the rest of the western world got together and stood up to this f*****g fascist bully president and his team of thugs:

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-52161995

    Canadian PM Justin Trudeau has started the ball rolling by threatening the current American Administration with threats of his own. [see link]

  20. A 22

    Grateful here in NZ small businesses actually got the govt subsidies. This didn't happen in the US for the most part which all but guarantees widespread failures.

    We don't know how lucky we are.

    Does the disclosure of what companies received money breach privacy?

  21. A 23

    World count of approximately 10,000,000 cases by mid April. We are blessed to have a government that acted comparatively early, although there is a desperate need for harsh consequences.

    • Treetop 23.1

      I am trying to not look forward more than a day about the distress Covid-19 is causing. Some governments are just not prepared. The situation has become cruel in Ecuador, dead left out in the street and dead in the homes. I knew this would occur in countries with few resources.

      Yes NZ is blessed.

  22. Ovid 24

    Sir Keir Starmer has been elected as leader of the British Labour Party. Good luck to him, hopefully they can rebuild for the 2024 election.

    • millsy 24.1

      I personally would have chosen Nandy. Maybe next time.

      Already those who rage-quit the party when Corbyn was leader are starting to come crawling back, expecting to just pick up where they left off in 2015.

    • greywarshark 25.1

      I just remembered your good links ecomaori and I will remember to keep checking to see what music you have heard lately. So I hope you will keep putting it up. Thanks. Kia ora ongoing.

      You are reporting positives – gives me a lift, so thanks for telling about the good.

  23. Eco Maori 26

    Kia Ora Newshub.

    There are idiots everywhere.

    Good on that teacher helping people out during these times.

    The Internet is a great way for people to carry on making money.

    Ka kite Ano

  24. Eco Maori 27

    Kia Ora Te Ao Maori News.

    I think that the road sight in Te Taitokerau should be examined by archaeological people before any roads are built. Why are they doing that while the lock down is in place Shady.

    I think that the parents should not stress to much if there tamariki are not receiving education resources.

    Ka kite Ano

  25. Eco Maori 28

    Kia Ora The Am Show.

    Water problems in Auckland That's part of global warming predictions.

    If a business person was running the country he would have waited till the Rinos had run Aotearoa over before making big moves that has big financial effects there way of thinking is money before humanity.

    You can't help but try and politicise the virus issue. We have to put people's lives first.

    Ka kite Ano.

  26. Eco Maori 29

    Kia Ora Newshub.

    Its impossible to keep everyone happy during the virus isolation times.

    Hope no one is lost in the Cyclone in Vanuatu.

    Ka kite Ano

  27. Eco Maori 30

    Kia Ora Te Ao Maori News.

    Cool that Iwi checking to make sure there Kaumatua are OK during there weeks of isolation.

    Good move starting up there own online Kai delivery service.

    I say our government is handling this virus situation well.

    Ka kite Ano.

  28. Eco Maori 31

    Kia Ora The Am Show.

    Aotearoa is lucky that we are a food produceing nation we can feed our Tangata.

    What I can believe that you are a cracked record.

    Ka kite Ano.

  29. Eco Maori 32

    Kia Ora Newshub.

    Its cool weather these days .

    There will be unscrupulous people ripping off people and the government . Kia Kaha.

    Ka kite Ano.

  30. Eco Maori 33

    Kia Ora Te Ao Maori News.

    Someone ripping off the pepe things from a kohanga reo is not on.

    Condolences to Jimmy's whanau for their loss.

    Ka kite Ano

  31. Eco Maori 34

    Kia Ora Newshub.

    I think it's great that The Warehouse is going to donate Easter eggs to familys.

    Cool that councils are helping feed their poor people we no who to thank for that phenomenon.

    That's the way turn all those logs into timber and other stuff to create local employment just don't ruin our environment in the process.

    Ka kite Ano P. S The gloves will come off after isolation

  32. Eco Maori 35

    Kia Ora Newshub.

    That's good two new channels and laptops being sent out to teach our students and tamariki.

    Ka kite Ano

  33. Eco Maori 36

    Kia Ora Te Ao Maori News.

    Our government is doing it best to carry on our youth education during isolation.

    Its good to see Kiwis working in the horticultural industry like they use to 20 years ago.

    A 3rd of Kiwis in Australia could be in harder times kia kaha Whanau.

    Ka kite Ano

  34. Eco Maori 37

    Kia Ora The Am Show.

    Hope no lives are lost in Fiji from the Cyclone hitting them.

    I remember that incident well it was on the news as well on The Crowd goes wild.

    I enjoyed living in my off grid camp till I was under arm bowled by you know who.

    😇

    Ka kite Ano

  35. Eco Maori 38

    Kia Ora Newshub.

    That's is cool everyone person coming into Aotearoa is going into quarantine.

    We know who caused the EQC mess.

    I don't think 4 week of UN attended of a golf course will ruin it.???. in Autumn /winter

    Ka kite Ano

  36. Eco Maori 39

    Kia Ora Te Ao Maori News.

    Condolences to Huirangi whanau for their loss.

    Plenty of vegetables growing on Turanga Nui A Kiwa whenua.

    Ka pai to the Iwi koha kia to te tangata.

    Ka kite Ano

  37. Eco Maori 40

    Kia Ora Newshub.

    It would be good to find symptoms to aid in early detection of the virus.

    That's good online church services you can reach a lot of people online.

    Ka kite Ano.

  38. Eco Maori 41

    Kia Ora Te Ao Maori News.

    5G protest I was baffled when I found out that some people believe that 5G caused the virus how can A radio wave influence A biological virus.??????.

    Ka kite Ano

  39. Eco Maori 42

    Kia Ora Newshub.

    Yes we are mear mortals on the Mother Earth.

    Aotearoa is lucky of our location in the middle of the Pacific.

    Awsome our government sending supplies and helping to Vanuatu.

    Ka kite Ano.

  40. Eco Maori 43

    Kia Ora Te Ao Maori News.

    Its good to see our Kaumatua being given groceries during isolation.

    Ka kite Ano

  41. Eco Maori 44

    Kia Ora Newshub.

    Yes our mokopuna enjoyed their Easter.

    That's is awesome those Kiwis being aloud to come home into quarantine.

    Ka kite Ano

  42. Eco Maori 45

    Kia Ora Te Ao Maori News.

    Good on the Cook Islands government for supporting that golden oldies Netball team.

    That's is cool neighbours meeting each other and keeping safe inside there isolation bubble in Rotorua.

    Great seeing the regions with a lot tangata whenua getting tested for the virus.

    Now is a good time to use the Internet to teach Te reo Maori. Kia kaha Te reo Maori.

    Ka kite Ano

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