Open mike 04/09/2023

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, September 4th, 2023 - 88 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:


Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

88 comments on “Open mike 04/09/2023 ”

  1. Molly 1

    While our health ministry has announced a review on puberty blockers (but not yet produced a brief AFAIK), Channel 7 broke the silence in Australia last night.

    The Spotlight programme "Detransitioners" was shown at 7 pm.

    At present there is no link to the full programme, but some of the interviews have been posted on their YouTube channel.

    Here is one (9min):

    https://youtu.be/nTHw6a8bbLE?feature=shared

    • weka 1.1

      that's a very good interview.

      Snip starting at 6m, mostly the Australian paediatrician speaking,

      Dr: The problem is when the issues of harm and the stories of harm come about and people still do nothing, that’s when the true scandal is here.

      Journo: Do you think we’ve reached that stage now?

      Dr: Yes, it’s been here for a few years. There’s been clear stories of medical harm, regretting their treatments, the true realities of what the treatment is causing for children, the lack of any discussion around sexual function and fertility, what that does to children in the long term. These are all stories and information that’s been freely available, but we still in this country fail to acknowledge that… we’ve done nothing in this country to move the discussion forward.

      He goes on to say that he won't refer any of his patients to gender clinics. When has asked them how many of the clinic patients aren't deemed suitable for medical (hormonal and surgical) treatment, the clinic refused to say.

      For those still not getting it, as an example from my reading, a young lesbian struggling with her sexed body because she is a sexual abuse survivor and whose friends are telling her she is really a boy, won't be treated for trauma but instead will have her gender identity as a boy affirmed and be put on a transition pathway that includes blocking puberty, eventual removal of breasts, and possible reconstruction of genitals (imo this is still experimental surgery). Lifelong effects include dependence on medication, pain, physical dysfunction, impacts on fertility and sexual function. No treatment for the trauma, or affirmation that it's really ok for women to love women.

  2. Joe90 2

    Shouty dude nails it.

    (nsfw language)

    @DeeAngryScot

    My favourite take on Burning Man Festival so far

    Check out his TikTok for the full thing, bc fuk twitter blue

    https://twitter.com/DeeAngryScot/status/1698301288503496842

    Tens of thousands of people gathered for the Burning Man festival remained stranded in the Nevada desert on Sunday after storms that swept through the area, as authorities investigated a possible death and worked to open exit paths by the end of the Labor Day weekend.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/travel/celebrities-flee-burning-man-mud-dj-diplo-and-chris-rock-hike-out/RPTKHMBX6JEZVO3GVGH4L5ODKA/

    • Francesca 2.1

      grifting on the grifters

      cannibalising the cannibals

      professionally angry(well you have to make a buck in the crowded social media world)

  3. Joe90 3

    Useless eaters, huh.

    /

    @NZQandA

    The ACT party has called for Pharmac to take a “productivity perspective” to decisions on who gets funded medicine – full interview with candidate Todd Stephenson:

    https://twitter.com/NZQandA/status/1698209741896389005

    • AB 3.1

      Went to the pharmacy to day to pick up a prescription. The young man handed smiled and said "I trust you have been economically productive today sir – it is a Monday and you are out and about. You seem to be an older gentleman but otherwise fit and sprightly. Do you have a timesheet or authorisation from your employer to be idle on a Monday morning? Your lingering painful death would be regrettable at a personal level, but makes sense economically".

    • Roy Cartland 4.1

      Is that real???

      • Muttonbird 4.1.1

        Yep, front page of The Herald. Imagine National Party HQ this morning…

      • Mike the Lefty 4.1.2

        A paid ad for the CTU.

        One can only imagine how much they had to pay for that on the front page.

        Still, I'm surprised the Granny Herald actually did it.

        I suppose money from your political enemies is still money.

        • Roy Cartland 4.1.2.1

          Holy heck, that's huge. And yes, I'm surprised the Herald ran it. Imagine the risk of lost revenue for them.

        • foreign waka 4.1.2.2

          20K and The Herald gladly took it. As for my take, I am not voting for labour. Underhand bowling moves, a character flaw.

          • Patricia Bremner 4.1.2.2.1

            why didn't you complain about all the underhand National/Act cartoons ads etc? Chris Hipkins showed half a dozen today.

            • foreign waka 4.1.2.2.1.1

              The add was not from a political party but the Union who spend 20k of fees for that. To which Chris Hipkins said it has nothing to do with Labour. Really?

              And herein lies the character flaw. The add is in itself very questionable if an organisation who lives of the money of wage earners is openly electioneering and takes sides in political terms to influence the public.

              We want to hear what the vision for NZ is but all we see is what it ought not to be.

              • SPC

                First you say the CTU/trade unions should not be involved in politics, despite their affiliation to the Labour Party. The Taxpayers Union is registered as a trade union and clearly aligned to the National Party. Not an issue?

                Second in some paradox then say Labour is to blame for what the union did, because of the affiliation to the Labour Party ….unions not being involved in politics …

                Does National not take donations from businesses?

                The idea that the union movements and workers have no political interest in the removal of the Fair Pay Agreement – which is akin to that in Oz, where wages are higher and working conditions better is absurd.

          • Anne 4.1.2.2.2

            You never were going to vote Labour. I called Luxon a phony just now in that he pretends to be somebody he isn't. I call you out as a phony pretending to be an honest citizen when in reality you just make things up to suit some pitiful, personal little agenda.

            • foreign waka 4.1.2.2.2.1

              OMG. How almost spiteful that comment is. I wasn't aware that the standard of discussion is dropping that low. But this seems to fit the issue at hand. For the record, I have been a fan of Helen Clark and Michael Cullen in years past. But this government is incapable of showing a vision, uniting people and providing some firm direction. So lets just look at some of the facts lately, shall we? For example, Immigration. What kind of policy is that where criminals are allowed to enter the county and NZ is now open to the underworld of other nations? Ok, Education. Why is it that we still have an issue with kids going back to school? No, I do not accept any more of this softly softly something. 40% functional illiteracy is unacceptable. Who will pay for their upkeep in 20 years time? Lets move to finance. The amount of money that is wasted on consultants is mind boggling. Meanwhile the infrastructure falls apart. No one talks anymore about the sewer and water pipes that fall into disrepair. To confronting? It must be election time. I will not go to the cost of living issue because this would take too long. Suffice to say that the decisions of this government has got us way beyond what was necessary, i.e. printing money like confetti. These points are wort a discussion and I want to know what the practical and real plans are to get a far better outcome than what we see. This is not for hobby professionals, we need the real McCoy here.

              So, with that said I doubt that a recovery out of this is in sight. Prove me wrong.

              • SPC

                So you believe right talking points about everything, and now the ad.

                Stupendous demonstration of herd thinking.

              • Anne

                Thank-you for proving my point fw. 🙂

              • Shanreagh

                I think you should ask your favourite party to drop off a supply of paragraphs to you.

                Then you can rewrite your stream of consciousness post above.

                smiley

      • Johnr 4.1.3

        Three cheers for the CTU. I'd donate serious money if they did same for Seymour.

        One wonders what that lot are planning to wrap up into a nice little package of govt departments that they can sell off. Pharmac and the hospitals springs to mind. We've seen a precursor of this by the brown skid mark and the auckland airport shares.

        • Mike the Lefty 4.1.3.1

          National are already whinging about dirty Labour party tactics.

          Yeah that's right!

          National.

          The party that in 2005 hired the Exclusive Bretheren to run a smear campaign against Labour and the Greens in Auckland suburbs.

          The pot calling the kettle black.

          • foreign waka 4.1.3.1.1

            And two wrongs do not make one right. If someone takes the higher ground, better not show the character flaw.

            • Gabby 4.1.3.1.1.1

              However, what's sauce for the goose IS sauce for the gander. The Nats love them some sauce.

            • Shanreagh 4.1.3.1.1.2

              What is the higher ground of which you speak? And, am I correct that you seem to be ascribing it to the Nats, those of the bottom feeder mentality.

              Pretty low ground I would have thought to call any fellow human being 'a bottom feeder'. Especially from one who ostensibly espouses a Christian ethos, even allowing for the fact that churches of the type he attends are ones called prosperity churches. .

    • Mac1 4.2

      Saw this poster on a street in Wellington's Taranaki Street last night, Luxon looking like a cross between Muldoon and Mussolini. Too much risk is right, considering the likes of who would be in cabinet, ref. Joe90 at #3 above.

      • Mike the Lefty 4.2.1

        You have to be very careful what sort of pictures you use on posters, billboards.

        I remember way back in 1975 there was a rather bad picture of Bill Rowling used on posters that when a small moustache was drawn on it made him look uncomfortably close to Hitler, and of course the Rugby Men for Rob did exactly that thinking it was a huge joke.

      • Mac1 4.2.2

        And 24 hours later, the message at the bottom of the poster on Taranaki Street has been torn away.

        So much for some people's idea of Freedom.

    • Ad 4.3

      +1000

      Luxon's roadmap for foreign buyers is building yet another cliff up to foreign super-elites to own us all. That's reminiscent of neither Mussolini nor Muldoon but I fundamentally object to policies of deliberate wealth disparity.

      • Roy Cartland 4.4.1

        It's amazing they can run a whole article without bothering to ask if there's any truth to the statements. Not that Nats would admit that there is, but it would be journalistic to get them to deny it. Surely?

    • joe90 4.5

      Viva Il Dope!

  4. Roy Cartland 5

    This is an excellent and crucial watch. The doctor in question argues only facts. The scariest bit is that these clinics place the onus of medical knowledge on the confused child. It's a vicious ploy for money.

    -meant to reply to comment 1 –

  5. Ffloyd 6

    The National party was such a cringeworthy affair. Goes to show that money cannot buy class.
    I felt second hand embarrassment for the Luxon family of the glorious locks. ‘Didn’t get them from dad’ It was flat out hilarious. Only in 🇺🇸 America…. oh,wait… Manukau. Ok then. Still hilarious.

    Just needed pom poms, ra ra skirts, swinging blonde ponytails (just for key) and seventy six trombones.

    Does Luxon think deep down that he will be President of the Worlds newest tax haven to be. Just joking.

    Instead ,if there is no justice in this world, he will be elected just a lowly Prime Minister.

    Apparently there were no policies, no costing and a sprinkling of fairy dust from the ever so dim Willis, who is confident that everything will add up because she says so.

    The whole show was just plain tacky. I did feel sorry for the kids however. Not so much for the wife who made me gag. Although that could have been the glass of wine I had just consumed…….The wine was the best bit by far.

    • Blazer 6.1

      Did you see John Campbell interviewing Luxon's wife and kids?

      The wifes nose grew as she spoke about Christophers compelling attribute…..'authenticity'!

      • AB 6.1.1

        Good on her for trying. I think authentic and ethical were the ones she mentioned. My partner immediately commented that the opposite of those attributes must have been very prominent in the word clouds generated from focus groups.

    • ianmac 6.2

      Claire Trevett usually backs the right but today she said this:

      It was a different experience watching National’s launch on-screen to being there in person. It was very slickly produced and clearly produced to look and sound good on television. Those who watched it on screen said it did indeed look and sound high-energy.

      From the back of the theatre, however, it seemed surprisingly subdued and low on energy.

      That could have been down to the venue – a large theatre which National did not manage to fill, or to the differences in the party base: Labour’s supporters chant and whoop, while National’s are more prone to polite clapping and save the whoops for special occasions.

      So as usual National has all the expensive glossy bells and whistles but lacks substance.

      https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/election-2023-christopher-luxons-campaign-launch-mission-to-look-like-a-prime-minister-in-waiting/RCSBWNDML5FHNG5PSAGU6KYN2Q/

    • Roy Cartland 6.3

      I thought it was pretty unauthentic to have American-accented kids banging on about how "kiwi" they were. Piss off, you haven't bothered to live here long enough to make an attempt at the accent, you have no idea what you're talking about.

      (And no, this doesn't apply to adult immigrants, who are net contributors. Their kids are millions of times more kiwi than these Yankee phonies.)

  6. Reality 7

    Observations from yesterday's Sunday programme. The PM came over as completely natural, genuine, with a quirky sense of humour, likeable, and dedicated to do his best for NZ.

    Luxon came over as pompous, self-important, and as if he had pre-scripted everything he said (as if he had been PR advised). Tried too hard to be likeable.

    • Roy Cartland 7.1

      "Likeable". Jesus wept.

      • Patricia Bremner 7.1.1

        Even more so, when talking to the press about the CTU page of Luxon, and Bishop's bleat about nastiness. Chris Hipkins laughed and explained that is what happens when you put yourself up for office with dodgy numbers.

        He said if Labour had called a press conference for each attack ad there would have been many, and he produced NP member ad, Tax grp ads and a National Party one, and laughingly commented about them and attacks by Ground Swell Tax payers Union and the Thompson Group, all offshoots of the National Party.

        The quiet reflection of the reporters when he said he thought the complaint was actually running a diversion over their failed numbers spoke volumes.

        Is it possible for some skilled body to put that stand up on here?yes

  7. PsyclingLeft.Always 8

    There is much talk about the "squeezed middle" (right wing/NAct talk mostly).

    I remember there was this from..2020.

    The number of New Zealand retirees getting their superannuation while earning more than $100,000 has topped 30,000 – costing taxpayers more than half a billion dollars each year.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/nz-super-costs-up-as-nz-retirees-on-100k-passes-30000/SNSRX3N637F4W3LSCSQ236QJJQ/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMItcWE-8ePgQMVWXErCh0KywkqEAMYASAAEgIXqvD_BwE

    I have had, the, IMO Misfortune… to work with a range of these. (Maybe not on $100 K? )

    Anyway…NAct supporter/voters to a man (and woman)

    Also…mostly inveterate haters of : Bene's, (the Irony ! ) Maori, Socialists, Greenies etc; etc;

    IMO total self interest and selfish…jerks.

    And quite keen to "punch down"….

    Oh and FYI for those who “reckon” Im in some kind of “echo chamber” I sure as fuck push back…..

    • Roy Cartland 8.1

      I want to agree… Somewhere… But I can't seem to find the point you're making. Can you clarify? (Genuine q)

      • PsyclingLeft.Always 8.1.1

        Oh sorry. I had better say..I am definitely not going on at Superannuitants in general !

        Its just the whole "squeezed middle", entitled "Retired" set…who are also on… quite a good income, even over a $100 K and claiming "their" Super… while as I say..punching down on the "bottom feeders."

        And..they would not ever see the Irony of any of that.

        • Rosielee 8.1.1.1

          If they are earning over $100.000 their pension amount will be minimal.

          • PsyclingLeft.Always 8.1.1.1.1

            First paragraph in the link….

            The number of New Zealand retirees getting their superannuation while earning more than $100,000 has topped 30,000 – costing taxpayers more than half a billion dollars each year.

            https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/nz-super-costs-up-as-nz-retirees-on-100k-passes-30000/SNSRX3N637F4W3LSCSQ236QJJQ/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMItcWE-8ePgQMVWXErCh0KywkqEAMYASAAEgIXqvD_BwE

          • James Thrace 8.1.1.1.2

            No.

            It doesn't matter how much you earn, the super amount remains the same.

            Its why I am a fan of income testing (not asset testing) with superannuation paid by IRD as they can easily verify whether in any one fortnight your income will break the threshold of say, $150k p.a. ($5769 gross per fortnight).

            If it's good enough to penalise low paid beneficiaries for any dollar over $150 a week they earn, it's good enough to penalise those over 65 for every dollar over $2,884.50 they earn.

            Not a fan of asset testing otherwise the single widow that doesn't work living in a mortgage free home will not receive pension, therefore no way to pay their bills, and being forced to sell their own home just generates additional poverty.

        • foreign waka 8.1.1.2

          You do know that max tax applies? Yes? Essentially, those who have gained an education, worked and contributed are taxed at max rate once 48K pre tax is reached. 8 hrs at living wage rate per week is still ok before the jump to max tax happens. So before you go on with those 100K earners (which cant be many) it is those who still can work and do so – not by choice but necessity -to make end meet with an inflation rate of averaging 18% who are immensely affected. Interestingly, as a tax payer you get treated as an individual, as a pensioner you are a herd animal.

          • PsyclingLeft.Always 8.1.1.2.1

            those 100K earners (which cant be many)

            Hello ? In the link….In 2020 it was 30,000. Maybe re read it all…and my comments.

            I repeat..its those "punch down" types…you know who.

            Anti all : Bene's, (the Irony ! ) Maori, Socialists, Greenies etc; etc;

            But quite OK… with their own Super Bene…..

            • foreign waka 8.1.1.2.1.1

              2020, there were 792000 pensioners, 30000 would comprise 3.79%.

              40% of retirees live off the pension only. This is where the focus ought to be in my view. What kind of country does NZ want to be? How will the future look like with 40% leaving school and unable to read comprehensively and AI being introduced. How will this impact on the living standard? Where are the discussions about how this will affect the future of all people in NZ.

              Relating to my comment prior:

              How much can a pensioner earn before it affects the pension NZ?

              the first $160 of combined income a week (before tax) doesn't affect your payments. for every $1 you get over $160, your total NZ Super or Veteran's Pension payment is reduced by 70 cents.

              I don't know what "punch down" types are. All I know is that many older people are scared that they cannot meet their rates, rent, electricity and food bills. Many actually don't if they wouldn't continue working.

              "And New Zealand has one of the highest rates of people aged 65+ still working 24%. This compares to the UK rate of 10%, Australia 12%, USA 19%, Japan 20% and Iceland 35%"

              https://retirement.govt.nz/policy-and-research/retirement-income-policy-review/

              • SPC

                There is every chance those on $100,000 a year plus already own their homes and maybe a rental and have some super savings.

              • Francesca

                Well then string me up .I’m on the pension and I also earn well over $160 a week .This affects my tax, but not my pension This goes through an old school type accountant, who is absolutely by the book , and all information goes to IRD.You are talking nonsense.
                The pension only becomes abated when there is a non qualifying partner included

                • foreign waka

                  Facts 2023 Francesca. Fact. I posted links to the IRD website and stats above, these are not interpretations of the current tax law. But I appreciate that a person on their own gets more pension. The tax – and I can reassure you that is a FACT – after earning more than 48K including the pension is the top rate like someone earning 180K. It wont hurt if you earn 100K but it sure does on 50K.

          • SPC 8.1.1.2.2

            18% inflation rate.

            Fact check

            Untrue.

            You do know that max tax applies?

            No, coz it aint so.

            The top rate kicks in at over $180,000. Income tax applies at the marginal rate – super + interest/dividends/rent + work income ….

            • foreign waka 8.1.1.2.2.1

              The links supplied are official links and not an interpretation. Facts and not "I want this to be true". But hey, you live with what you belief, its all good.

            • foreign waka 8.1.1.2.2.2

              The links supplied are official links. I referred to facts and not "I want this to be true". But hey, you live with what you belief, its all good.

  8. Blazer 9

    Pot calling the kettle black….Chris Bishop rails against CTU ads featuring Luxon.Americanised,attack ads,nasty …he says.

    Election 2023: Council of Trade Unions rolls out attack ads targeting Christopher Luxon, National hits back | Newshub

    • bwaghorn 9.1

      National relentlessly negative for 6 years, ctu points out that millionaire cei is out of touch with kiwis , and they start crying,

      • foreign waka 9.1.1

        No matter how the opposition is described, this was a dirty move. Full stop. And it shows a serious character flaw.

        • Blazer 9.1.1.1

          'a serious character flaw'!Are you serious ?

          These are politicians ffs.laugh

          • foreign waka 9.1.1.1.1

            No, this was the Union living off contributions from wage earners doing electioneering.

            • SPC 9.1.1.1.1.1

              Only from union members (and unions affiliated to the Labour Party) not all "wage earners"

              And why, to retain the Fair Pay Agreement.

  9. joe90 10

    Apparently there's a cost of living crisis but don't spend your tax relief pittance on easing your cost of living crisis.

    /

    Q+A

    @NZQandA

    National’s finance spokesperson Nicola Willis @NicolaWillisMP says their tax on foreign buyers will not be inflationary if New Zealanders “choose to save” that new money in the economy.

    https://twitter.com/NZQandA/status/1698086315835949466

  10. Ffloyd 11

    Chris the Lesser appears to have a very short memory. He just needs to look back at Keys days where our politics descended into the gutter. Dirty Politics. David Cunliffe. Paula Bennett gleefully publicising the benefit details of two young women who dared to stand up to her. Totally humiliating them. And the list goes on if you care to look. Verbal abuse was common from the braying national asses. So he needs to go back and do a bit of revision and see keys time in Parliament for what it truly was. Thugs mentality. Then he can put his dummy back in. He looks like he needs a good sleep.

  11. Adrian 12

    On the weekend a finance/property commentator on radio or maybe TV,( QandA ? ), as I recall, said the value to a landlord of the return of tax deductible interest should be worth about an 8k on average to an owner. Its essentially a tax cut. Now I have a COI here as we own a renter, a house we physicly built on my own for my mother in law, which is now rented within the whanau at a below average rate, but I do not believe mortgages for leverage should be tax deductible.

    Now nowhere have I heard commentary that this means that in Luxon's scheme Willis has theoreticly given him a $56,000 tax advantage and herself who apparently has 5 houses, gets $40.000.

    100K for just the 2 of them. Now that's what corruption looks like boys and girls.

    P.s. not sure about the Willis 5 houses, only heard about that a few days ago. Can anyone confirm please.

  12. Ffloyd 13

    Weka. Apologies. New to this. Was referring to Chris Bishop spitting the dummy and accusing Chris Hipkins of dirty politics by being behind the publishing of Chris Luxons rather large photo in the Herald with accompanying article. He offered no proof relating to his accusation which in itself could be seen as libellous.

    • Incognito 13.1

      You say that you’re “New to this” but as far as I can tell you’ve made 982 comments on this blog site since 29 Nov 2011!?

    • Anne 13.2

      Best way to ensure readers know who or what you are referring to, is to respond to someone involved in the subject matter by hitting the 'reply' button first. For instance , I knew who you were referring to because I posted the link in the first place.

      Its easy to forget to hit 'reply', in which case you end up out of the conversation and risk no-one knowing what you're talking about. 😉

  13. Ffloyd 14

    Point taken. If I hit reply my device doesn’t let me use text so I can’t continue from that point.

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