Open Mike 04/09/2016

90 comments on “Open Mike 04/09/2016 ”

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1. Paul 1

   4 September 2016 at 7:00 am

   Housing crisis worsens.

   http://m.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11703301

   with sad impacts

   http://i.stuff.co.nz/life-style/home-property/83791016/The-baby-or-the-house-Auckland-house-prices-force-couples-to-choose
   • Colonial Viper 1.1

     4 September 2016 at 7:50 pm

     what you call worsening is the property developers’ delight.
2. joe90 2

   4 September 2016 at 7:39 am

   Just fracking peachy.
   /

   12:25 p.m.

   The Oklahoma Corporation Commission has directed dozens of wastewater disposal wells within an approximate 500-square-mile radius of the epicenter the Oklahoma earthquake to shut down.

   The commission says about 35 wells are included in the directive, which was issued following the 5.6 magnitude earthquake that struck Saturday morning about nine miles northwest of Pawnee in north-central Oklahoma.

   The number of magnitude 3.0 or greater earthquakes has skyrocketed in Oklahoma, from a few dozen in 2012 to more than 900 last year.

   Commission spokesman Matt Skinner says the wells were directed to shut down due to scientific links that the increase to the underground disposal of wastewater from oil and gas production induces earthquakes. The commission has previously asked producers to reduce wastewater disposal volumes.

   The earthquake ties the record for the strongest earthquake in recorded Oklahoma history. No major damage was reported, and there was one minor injury.

   http://bigstory.ap.org/article/5f6fef94c4354ac3a43267858c4bb7c4/latest-oklahoma-governor-crews-assess-structures?utm
3. Halfcrown 3

   4 September 2016 at 9:26 am

   This one is singing from the same Tory, “fuck the country” songbook. Can see why she was head-hunted.
   Watch out here comes another flock of pigs

   http://www.nzherald.co.nz/the-country/news/article.cfm?c_id=16&objectid=11701859
   • Gangnam Style 3.1

     4 September 2016 at 10:18 am

     “That’s just one scientists opinion, like lawyers I can find another…” to paraphrase the PM.
   • mauī 3.2

     4 September 2016 at 10:29 am

     That’s the songbook with such hits as “There is no industrial farming in new zealand” and “Four chlorinations in one day”
     • marty mars 3.2.1

       4 September 2016 at 11:04 am

       Lol ‘counting the faeces’ and ‘a pill son will heal ya’ are on there too arent they
   • Paul 3.3

     4 September 2016 at 11:43 am

     From Wikipedia

     ‘Rowarth is a strong believer in agricultural science and business forces, and has crossed swords with advocates of organic agriculture, anti-GM technology, and some environmentalists seeking to restrict agricultural production.[3][4] In her inaugural professorial address at Waikato she argued science and agricultural degrees were more valuable than those in the arts.[5’

     She has history.
   • Paul 3.4

     4 September 2016 at 11:46 am

     She appears often as a useful scientist for the dairy industry.
     Follow the money.

     http://m.nzherald.co.nz/the-country/news/article.cfm?c_id=16&objectid=11669052
   • joe90 3.5

     4 September 2016 at 11:51 am

     Ms Rowarth over at Pundit.

     http://pundit.co.nz/blogs/jacqueline-rowarth
     • Wayne 3.5.1

       4 September 2016 at 12:40 pm

       Presumably you accept that it is OK that there is a diversity of viewpoints, and that Universities will have on their staff people who reflect this diversity.

       In agricultural science there will be scientists who consider that you can increase production while looking after the environment. But many farmers will have to do more than they currently do in terms of water management, and protection of water courses. They can certainly manage it in Netherlands or Denmark, both of whom have very intensive agriculture.

       Similarly not all academics take Jane Kelsey’s view point when it comes to trade.
       • Draco T Bastard 3.5.1.1

         4 September 2016 at 12:55 pm

         Similarly not all academics take Jane Kelsey’s view point when it comes to trade.

         I don’t consider those in denial of reality to be academics.
       • One Anonymous Bloke 3.5.1.2

         4 September 2016 at 12:55 pm

         Did you listen to the interview? Prof. Rowarth advises against jumping to conclusions then does exactly that.

         She is a professor of agribusiness. I suggest she leaves forensic pathology and hydrology to the experts in those fields, and she can stick to counting sheep.
       • Poission 3.5.1.3

         4 September 2016 at 1:06 pm

         Presumably you accept that it is OK that there is a diversity of viewpoints, and that Universities will have on their staff people who reflect this diversity.

         There is a need for lesser groupthink in science,and a greater need for challenging thinking, the former enhancing the stagnation of science in the 21st century.

         https://www.theguardian.com/science/2014/mar/18/we-need-more-scientific-mavericks

         and fewer selfies.

         http://www.pnas.org/content/113/34/9384/F1.medium.gif
       • rhinocrates 3.5.1.4

         4 September 2016 at 2:13 pm

         They can certainly manage it in Netherlands or Denmark, both of whom have very intensive agriculture.

         Thank you for your admission that it’s not being done here.
         • b waghorn 3.5.1.4.1

           4 September 2016 at 3:02 pm

           Wayne must be advocating for subsidies and indoor farming too, as that’s what would help the danes and the dutch
         • Wayne 3.5.1.4.2

           4 September 2016 at 7:57 pm

           I am certain the Dutch and the Danes are well ahead of New Zealand on water management. It is much more in their national ethos, having visited both countries. They have a different view of their national ecosystem than we do.

           Perhaps being settled on the land and farming it for hundreds of years gives a longer term view point. In contrast many New Zealand farmers do not see their lands as a long term holding.

           We after all cleared our country of bush not much more than 100 years ago, and that was still a large scale enterprise right up to the 1960’s. So careful nurturing of a highly modified ecosystem is a relatively new perspective for New Zealand.
           • Draco T Bastard 3.5.1.4.2.1

             4 September 2016 at 10:39 pm

             We after all cleared our country of bush not much more than 100 years ago…

             Actually, the clearing began about 900 years ago – when Māori got here.
           • Stuart Munro 3.5.1.4.2.2

             5 September 2016 at 1:24 am

             The Danes and the Dutch have competent government, of course they’re ‘well ahead’.

             Key’s is an aspirational approach, instead of doing things he professes to want them. It makes for good sound bites and lousy results.

             It’s frankly astonishing that an educated country like NZ suffers such a lame, low, lying, sleazy, non-performing government.

             They will drown in their own filth before too very much longer.
       • Macro 3.5.1.5

         4 September 2016 at 7:01 pm

         Netherlands: “This is two per cent more than the previous year. The number of dairy cattle saw a small increase to reach 1.49 million animals.” 2010 figures.
         Number of dairy and beef cattle in NZ = 9.5 million animals.
         ie 6.3 times the number of animals.
         Size of Holland 41,543 km² area under agriculture 55% = 22,500 km²
         Size of New Zealand 268,021 km area under agriculture 42% = 112,000 km²
         i.e. area under agriculture in NZ is 5 times that of the Netherlands.
         http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/AG.LND.AGRI.ZS

         NZ’s agriculture is more intensive than Netherlands.
         • Wayne 3.5.1.5.1

           4 September 2016 at 7:47 pm

           Macro,

           Netherlands has 7 million livestock units (LSU). Each LSU is equivalent of a diary cow. They have over 3 million cattle, about 60% dairy, now (2015) being 1.75 million. The rest are basically pigs. Basically no sheep.

           So I would say Netherlands is more intensive than New Zealand.
           • Colonial Viper 3.5.1.5.1.1

             4 September 2016 at 7:53 pm

             they rear them in fucking sheds mate
           • b waghorn 3.5.1.5.1.2

             4 September 2016 at 8:14 pm

             are you sure this is for nz

             Stock Unit Conversion Ratios for Survey (Economic Service Conversions):
             Beef Cattle Cattle Equivalent* Stock Units
             M.A. Cows 1.0 =5.5
             Heifers 2.5 Yr 1.0 =5.5
             Heifers 1.5 Yr 0.8 = 4.4
             Heifers Weaner 0.6 = 3.5
             6 m

             it hasn’t copied very clearly for some reason but in nz a su is a 55 kg ewe so a cow is 5 times that
             • Wayne …

               4 September 2016 at 9:50 pm

               The Netherlands use diary cows as the stock conversion unit. New Zealand uses sheep as the stock conversion unit. Different priorities for each country!
               • Poission …

                 4 September 2016 at 10:02 pm

                 The Netherlands use diary cows

                 are the cows learning academies public or privately funded?
               • Pat …

                 4 September 2016 at 11:13 pm

                 “This probably contributed to the limited imposition of mandatory controls to-date in the Netherlands where until 2002, only farms with stocking densities in excess of 2.5 LU/ha are subject to mandatory controls (ie, about half the national herd). In contrast, in Denmark, mandatory controls apply to all farms, although here average stocking densities are only about 0.9 LU/ha and the global nature of pollution problems are less intense (and hence less costly to address) than in the Netherlands.”

                 http://ec.europa.eu/environment/agriculture/pdf/dairy_xs.pdf.

                 The Netherlands dairy LU/ha is 2.0

                 Whereas in NZ the national dairy stocking rate is approaching 3 LU/ha overall (approaching 4 in some larger Canterbury operations)

                 http://www.dairynz.co.nz/media/1327583/nz-dairy-statistics-2013-2014-web.pdf
                 • Wayne …

                   5 September 2016 at 6:54 am

                   If half of Netherlands cows are on farms with stock rates above 2.5 SU per hectare that means it is likely to be a similar stock rate to NZ.
                   Of course the NZ climate means more grass growth than the Netherlands, so that supports a higher stocking rate, but also more responsibility required on water management.
                   • Pat …

                     5 September 2016 at 7:34 am

                     “So I would say Netherlands is more intensive than New Zealand.”

                     quite obviously with NZ having a LU/ha stocking rate (and considerably more cows) almost 50% higher, you would say wrong.
       • Halfcrown 3.5.1.6

         4 September 2016 at 7:40 pm

         “Presumably you accept that it is OK that there is a diversity of viewpoints, and that Universities will have on their staff people who reflect this diversity.”

         Not from the University of Waikato, mate. It is known as a hotbed of Neo-Liberalism  They are so myopic you think they are all Cyclops from Greek mythology.
         She is talking crap. Visit Lake Ngaroto, 30 years ago when I used to sail our small sailboat kids used to SWIM in the lake. I visited it last December 1st time for over 25 years it is now toxic big warning signs don’t go near the place. That has not been caused by cracks in the ground or drought. it is polluted by cow shit and piss. and there wasnt the bird life there that was there 30 years ago. Possibly they had all fucked off as they have fucked this place and are flying to the next place to fuck up.
         Rowarth is insulting out intelligence when she comes out with that crap. That is not a scientific diverse viewpoint, as her opinion is based on nothing but right wing fucking Dogma nothing more and nothing less.
         Perhaps the next time I go to Pak-N-Slave they may give me a professorship instead a voucher for discounted petrol.
         • In Vino 3.5.1.6.1

           4 September 2016 at 8:37 pm

           I sailed on Ngaroto back then, and I still occasionally sail there now. Koi carp have destroyed all weed, so swans have gone.. Lake is probably closer to collapse as you say. Billions of fish of the wrong species (Koi carp), some shags and some ducks…
           A pity the way that Academics now seem to be bought two a penny…
4. Draco T Bastard 4

   4 September 2016 at 9:30 am

   How the Government Deficit Helps the Economy

   The mirror image from the graph clearly illustrates how the government deficit is reflected into a private sector surplus. If the government is spending more than it is taxing, it is stimulating the economy, not taking away from it.

   We can also point to Keith Rankin’s The Global Debt Crisis which shows the same thing.

   The lesson to be leaned from these is that it’s not the private sector that funds the economy. It’s government and that seems to apply even though it’s the private banks creating the money.

   The private banks create money when they make a loan and then the look for reserves. If the reserves aren’t available in the private sector then they go to the Reserve Bank which will always loan them the money necessary to get their reserves up. Of course, the amount of reserve currency created is far less than the bank credit created when the bank makes the loan.

   It’s that bank credit that’s behind house price inflation.
   • James Thrace 4.1

     4 September 2016 at 12:53 pm

     Has there been any in depth analysis of the relationship between the repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act in 1998 by Bill Clinton, and the subsequent rampant debt fuelled binge that the private banks have facilitated as a result?

     I am fairly certain that had Glass-Steagall not been repealed, we wouldn’t be having this crisis today. It’s not a long bow to draw given that the true owners of the “big four” banks in NZ are JP Morgan, Citigroup, HSBC and National Nominees, who coincidentally are the strongest Wall Street players.
     • Colonial Viper 4.1.1

       4 September 2016 at 7:56 pm

       Glass Steagal forced banks to separate their standard banking saver focussed operations and their high risk investment derivatives banking operations.
     • Draco T Bastard 4.1.2

       4 September 2016 at 10:36 pm

       Has there been any in depth analysis of the relationship between the repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act in 1998 by Bill Clinton, and the subsequent rampant debt fuelled binge that the private banks have facilitated as a result?

       Not as far as I know. There’s been plenty of speculation about it though.

       Our own present debt binge is related to its demise but it’s more because of the neo-liberal ideology.
     • One Anonymous Bloke 4.1.3

       5 September 2016 at 7:37 am

       A search for “Glass Steagel 2008” reveals arguments on both sides. Go figure.

       Stiglitz argues the main effect was “indirect”.
5. mauī 5

   4 September 2016 at 9:35 am

   These cases of animal terrorism are becoming really concerning. Either sheep, deer or “cattle” are breaking into the bore head of town water supplies and then falling to the bottom of the well contaminating what everyone drinks. Cattle are too wide and would probably get wedged part way down, so that rules them out as they wouldn’t think its worth it. Which town will be hit next though…

   http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/health/hopes-pahiatuas-water-will-soon-be-safe/
   • Bearded Git 5.1

     4 September 2016 at 10:53 am

     LOL
6. Bearded Git 6

   4 September 2016 at 11:08 am

   Bernard Hickey nails it here.

   http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11703478

   NZ has to get over “big house syndrome” and build 80m2 houses (probably terraces of 3-4 houses) and apartments of 60m2.

   Step up Labour and the Greens?
   • Draco T Bastard 6.1

     4 September 2016 at 12:29 pm

     It’s not just the big house but the big piece of land that goes with it.
   • BM 6.2

     4 September 2016 at 12:57 pm

     Step up Labour and the Greens?

     Unless they can get the cost of the section down, they’re wasting their time and most importantly taxpayers money.

     No one is going to build a 80-100 sq meter house on a $400,000 dollar section, it’s a complete waste of such a valuable resource.

     That’s the big difference between now and 40 years ago, the section price, unless section prices radically drop in value, nothing is going to change.
     • b waghorn 6.2.1

       4 September 2016 at 1:32 pm

       if they government took the land under the public works act and then put the sections under the houses into a 1000 years lease scheme the land value would not matter.
       • BM 6.2.1.1

         4 September 2016 at 2:06 pm

         You mean not pay for the land, just take it.?
         • b waghorn 6.2.1.1.1

           4 September 2016 at 2:12 pm

           No under the public works the owner still gets paid , but it would mean the government would have to take a lose, that way a house could be sold for build price and new owners would pay the rates on the land plus a lease rate.
           • BM 6.2.1.1.1.1

             4 September 2016 at 2:17 pm

             but it would mean the government would have to take a lose

             The government doesn’t take a loss, the loss is all the tax payer.

             How to you think tax payers would feel, knowing they’re subsidizing other people into their own house.

             Would they vote for a government that does that?, I think I’d be pretty safe in saying they wouldn’t.
             • One Anonymous Bloke …

               4 September 2016 at 2:31 pm

               Paula Bennett, for example: the taxpayers I know are disgusted, not that she got a cheap government loan, but that she prevented others from following in her footsteps.

               The modern Tory: always wanking on about “teach a man to fish”, then buying up all the fishing rights and offering lease terms on the gear.
             • b waghorn …

               4 September 2016 at 3:05 pm

               if the gov took $2k a year in income of each house , keeping in mind they could fit two to three houses were one mc mansion sits, then they would recover the money eventually.
         • mikesh 6.2.1.1.2

           4 September 2016 at 2:25 pm

           I suppose the government could issue bonds to compensate. No doubt land rentals would cover the interest, and eventual withdrawal, of the bonds.
     • save nz 6.2.2

       4 September 2016 at 1:38 pm

       @BM – I think that’s the problem with the ‘market’ forces. Market forces are not going to build affordable houses. They are building large houses for an incoming migration market with money external from NZ local wages.
     • Bearded Git 6.2.3

       4 September 2016 at 1:46 pm

       @BM You build apartments or four two-storey 80-100m2 terraces (meaning a building footprint of 40-50m2) on the (say 500m2) $400k section.

       Land value per housing unit is then reasonable.
       • BM 6.2.3.1

         4 September 2016 at 2:04 pm

         The article from Bernard Hickey was about stand alone houses.

         For a 100m2 house with garage you’d need at least 400m2 to make it livable.

         400m2 section in Auckland is $400k +.
         • Bearded Git 6.2.3.1.1

           4 September 2016 at 3:34 pm

           @ BM I agree about the Hickey’s example but he was talking about the 70’s. I don’t believe he was advocating exactly the same type of development now.

           In any event these days in Auckland you have to forget about separate houses on 400m2 sections and develop in the way I describe above-anything else is simply unaffordable….except for well-heeled investors of course who are incredibly buying 50% of what comes on the market.
         • Molly 6.2.3.1.2

           4 September 2016 at 4:28 pm

           “For a 100m2 house with garage you’d need at least 400m2 to make it livable.”

           Only if you have designers with limited imaginations, and very little experience of designing homes in limited spaces.

           Japanese architects have been doing smaller homes for years, and are very adept at designing comfortable homes in small areas.

           Unfortunately, in NZ we have planners, councils, architects and builders who have little experience and whose idea of “added value” rests in imported materials, and larger spaces.
   • Rosie 6.3

     4 September 2016 at 2:33 pm

     Disclaimer: I didn’t read the article.

     Around where I live the 2bdr MDH units are selling like hot cakes. For 124 m2 on only180m2 of land you can expect to shell out $520K. That’s not affordable.

     http://www.woodridge.co.nz/Hillside1

     The units are all cramped together like sow stalls. The development is several kilometres away from any amenities. That’s walking distance for able bodied folks only and if you have a spare 40 minutes to do the round trip to the shops. Thats 40 minutes from where we live, it would be 50 minute from the sow stalls. All units have parking availability for two cars because it’s expected that occupants would need two cars.

     It’s fine to build small houses if people want them but development needs to be intelligent and environmentally sustainable and that’s a job for the council as much as central government to determine. Our MDH building is mushrooming in the northern burbs of Wellington. We’ve yet to see any good planning. Our council has only stood by uselessly and let these projects go ahead, many on a non notified basis.
     • Bearded Git 6.3.1

       4 September 2016 at 3:38 pm

       @ Rosie…that’s why they have to be 80m2 now. That’s how they do it in many other big cities around the globe.
   • Cinny 6.4

     4 September 2016 at 3:20 pm

     Have a seen a few horse float conversions lately, wonderful ideas. Not really suitable for a family. Perfect for freedom camping, ideal for any whom have land but don’t want to do the whole building permit thing, mobile home it is after all.

     Kids need room to play outside, if they are pushing apartments for families one would hope there would be decent parks and reserves near by for them to play in. Community food gardens located near by would be a wise idea too.

     30mins of fresh air surrounded by green (trees, grass etc) has proven benefits for peoples health.

     The smaller house building boom of the 70’s, those dwellings still had a decent piece of land in which people could grow their own food and let their children play etc, room for a lemon tree and a rotary clothesline.

     The thing with apartments, they are marketed as cheap living, but in the long run, you can’t have solar panels, catch your own water or grow food, you won’t have a fire for heating the house and hot water. It all adds up in the grand scheme of things, and when you want to have kids you would probably sell it and move, as well apartments are difficult to resell especially if they only have one bedroom.

     I loved apartment living in Wellington and Auckland, but no way could i have done it with a family. In saying that i would choose an apartment over a car, all depends on affordability
7. KB 7

   4 September 2016 at 2:00 pm

   Is there a reason why the comments are no longer appearing? Just wondering if it’s my computer or something else?
   • weka 7.1

     4 September 2016 at 3:20 pm

     There’s a few other things going on too (site is slow, avatars have changed, replies tab coming and going). I’m guessing that Lynn is making changes.

     Do you think there are comments that have never appeared? There was only one in moderation (released now, but not yours).
8. Paul 8

   4 September 2016 at 2:54 pm

   Trump tied with Clinton

   http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-elections/donald-trump-hillary-clinton-tied-latest-poll-reuters-ipsos-us-election-2016-a7223241.html
   • b waghorn 8.1

     4 September 2016 at 3:08 pm

     does it make me a bad person to want to see trump win , just so i can see what happens,
     • Leftie 8.1.1

       4 September 2016 at 3:25 pm

       You are not the only one I have heard say just that B Waghorn.
     • Matty WilderDobbs 8.1.2

       4 September 2016 at 4:15 pm

       Agreed. There are many that are so disillusioned with what the neo-liberal culture has done to democracy and quaint old ideas like citizenship and the so-called political representatives (our MPs) that go with it.
       Let alone things like our language (going forward; ‘learnings’, etc.)

       Winston’s riding on it, and I suspect the People’s Pary will do much the same.

       Christ …. just check out the state of people like Paula Bennett, Steven Joyce on yesterday’s ‘The Nation’ (and countless other incidents of his bullcrap), Wayne (Jeez Wayne); and even others like the wannabe noble Chris Finlayson – let alone Rebecca Kitteridgge FFS!!. All once half decent people – no no more, no anyhow.

       Maybe Trump’s seen as the trigger needed to get us all to the lowest common denominator before we wake the fuck up. Doesn’t say much for the human race though.

       Going Forward …. is that like Coming Back?
       Learnings …. are they like those facile things we charge immigrants for at $30K a pop?

       We really should be more challenging on the Left. Challenge the bullshit at every opportunity.
       We could probably even begin referring to the current Cabinet … supposed Ministers of the Crown with warrants as ‘flanges’.

       flange/flan(d)ʒ/
       noun
       a projecting flat rim, collar, or rib on an object, serving for strengthening or attachment or (on a wheel) for maintaining position on a rail.

       You pick which amongst our Ministers is the flat rim, which is the collar and which is the rim. I know some are capable of multitasking (even Paula Bennett can be referenced as saying she has a variety of ‘levers to pull’).

       Yes, so maybe roll on Donald fucking Trump. We’re nearly there already
       • b waghorn 8.1.2.1

         4 September 2016 at 4:47 pm

         For years i watched the weekends political shows but now i just can’t be bothered listening to their shit. gut instinct told me in 2008 that the nats were dirty garbage so that’s what i go on now(gut instinct) , that and getting my facts from a more trustable places than a pollies gob.
         as for trump . he’s a barnacle on on the arse of a dead whale so i’m getting the pop corn and sitting back
   • Poission 8.2

     4 September 2016 at 3:31 pm

     Wheres Boston Curtis? Would the new Boston Curtis please stand up.
   • Bearded Git 8.3

     4 September 2016 at 3:41 pm

     Real Clear Politics has Clinton 3.9% ahead on the average of polls but dropping.

     http://www.realclearpolitics.com/
     • Reddelusion 8.3.1

       4 September 2016 at 4:01 pm

       CV looks on the money here in regard to US electorate in contrast to TRP Met a few What you would call liberal yanks recently and they just can’t vote for Hilary
       • Pat 8.3.1.1

         4 September 2016 at 5:24 pm

         a sample of 3?
   • swordfish 8.4

     4 September 2016 at 6:55 pm

     Recent Polls

     Saturday, September 3

     Reuters/Ipsos (4-way) Clinton 39, Trump 39, Johnson 7, Stein 2 ……………. Tie

     Reuters/Ipsos (2-way) Clinton 39, Trump 40 ……………………………………… Trump +1

     LA Times/USC (2-way) Clinton 42, Trump 45 …………………………………….. Trump +3

     >

     Friday, September 2

     IBD/TIPP (4-way) Clinton 39, Trump 39, Johnson 12, Stein 3 ……………………….. Tie

     IBD/TIPP (2-way) Clinton 44, Trump 43 …………………………………………………Clinton +1

     >

     Thursday, September 1

     USA Today/Suffolk (4-way) Clinton 42, Trump 35, Johnson 9, Stein 4 … Clinton +7

     USA Today/Suffolk (2-way) Clinton 48, Trump 41 ………………………………. Clinton +7

     Rasmussen Reports (4-way) Clinton 39, Trump 40, Johnson 7, Stein 3 … Trump +1

     >

     Wednesday, August 31

     FOX News (4-way) Clinton 41, Trump 39, Johnson 9, Stein 4 ………………. Clinton +2

     FOX News (2-way) Clinton 48, Trump 42 ……………………………………………. Clinton +6

     Reuters/Ipsos (4-way) Clinton 40, Trump 38, Johnson 6, Stein 2 ………… Clinton +2

     Reuters/Ipsos (2-way) Clinton 40, Trump 39 ………………………………………. Clinton +1

     Economist/YouGov (4-way) Clinton 42, Trump 37, Johnson 7, Stein 3 … Clinton +5

     Economist/YouGov (2-way) Clinton 47, Trump 42 ……………………………… Clinton +5

     >

     Tuesday, August 30

     PPP (D) (4-way) Clinton 42, Trump 37, Johnson 6, Stein 4 ……………………. Clinton +5

     NBC News/SM (2-way) Clinton 41, Trump 37, Johnson 11, Stein 5 ………. Clinton +4

     >

     Monday, August 29

     Monmouth (4-way) Clinton 46, Trump 39, Johnson 7, Stein 2 ……………. Clinton +7

     Monmouth (2-way) Clinton 49, Trump 42 ………………………………………….. Clinton +7

     ,b>LA Times/USC (2-way) Clinton 44, Trump 44 …………………………………………. Tie

     >

     Friday, August 26

     Gravis (4-way) Clinton 42, Trump 41, Johnson 4, Stein 1 ……………………… Clinton +1

     >

     Thursday, August 25

     Quinnipiac (4-way) Clinton 45, Trump 38, Johnson 10, Stein 4 ……………….. Clinton +7

     Quinnipiac (2-way) Clinton 51, Trump 41 ………………………………………………. Clinton +10

     Rasmussen Reports (4-way) Clinton 42, Trump 38, Johnson 9, Stein 2 …… Clinton +4

     Reuters/Ipsos (4-way) Clinton 39, Trump 36, Johnson 7, Stein 3 …………….. Clinton +3

     Reuters/Ipsos (2-way) Clinton 42, Trump 35 …………………………………………… Clinton +7

     >

     Wednesday, August 24

     Economist/YouGov (2-way) Clinton 47, Trump 44 …………………………………… Clinton +3

     Economist/YouGov (4-way) Clinton 42, Trump 38, Johnson 6, Stein 4 …….. Clinton +4

     >

     Tuesday, August 23

     NBC News/SM (4-way) Clinton 43, Trump 38, Johnson 11, Stein 5 …………… Clinton +5

     And, then, of course, there are the crucial Swing-State Polls …
     • Colonial Viper 8.4.1

       4 September 2016 at 7:58 pm

       chur dude
9. Cinny 9

   4 September 2016 at 3:07 pm

   Police prioritise a break in on Jami-Lees caravan over what I would call a home evasion (a burglary while the family was asleep) just 900m away from the caravan aka mobile electorate office.

   http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/83833401/cops-show-up-immediately-to-burglary-at-mps-office-but-take-more-than-24-hours-to-attend-home-breakin-nearby

   Unoccupied Nat party caravans over families and children, disgraceful.
   • In Vino 9.1

     4 September 2016 at 7:12 pm

     Well, it seems to shock nobody because it is what we have come to expect.
     There will be silence form our usual trolls, unless one of them can reveal the stunning information that the occupants of the burgled house are in fact P-smoking illegal immigrants claiming fraudulent benefits while working illegally.
     (Home invasion, not evasion..)
     • Cinny 9.1.1

       4 September 2016 at 8:52 pm

       agreed
10. UglyTruth 10

    4 September 2016 at 4:25 pm

    VAXXED, the movie
    https://youtu.be/DIMEV6ButQw

    Interview with Dr Andrew Wakefield
    https://youtu.be/UFPoer4Gu_E
    • b waghorn 10.1

      4 September 2016 at 4:53 pm

      oh god no please save me from another endless vax /anti vax circular argument
      • UglyTruth 10.1.1

        4 September 2016 at 5:05 pm

        Relax, no thinking involved with this, Bill Gates is here to save you.

        Bill Gates’ father, William H. Gates Sr., has long been involved with the eugenics group Planned Parenthood, a rebranded organization birthed out of the American Eugenics Society. In a 2003 interview with PBS’ Bill Moyers, Bill Gates admitted that his father used to be the head of Planned Parenthood, which was founded on the concept that most human beings are just “reckless breeders” and “human weeds” in need of culling (http://www.pbs.org/now/transcript/transcript_gates.html).

        http://www.naturalnews.com/035105_Bill_Gates_Monsanto_eugenics.html
        • Andre 10.1.1.1

          4 September 2016 at 6:05 pm

          Shhhh, don’t let the lizard-people know you’re onto them.
        • Stephanie Rodgers 10.1.1.2

          4 September 2016 at 6:39 pm

          “eugenics group Planned Parenthood”

          Well now I’m definitely going to take you seriously. 🙄
          • One Anonymous Bloke 10.1.1.2.1

            4 September 2016 at 6:48 pm

            😆

            It’s all true! I seen it!
    • TheExtremist 10.2

      4 September 2016 at 5:59 pm

      Oh god, an anti-vaxxer.
    • One Anonymous Bloke 10.3

      4 September 2016 at 6:44 pm

      🙄

      Mr. Andrew Wakefield.

      FIFY.
      • Colonial Viper 10.3.1

        4 September 2016 at 8:00 pm

        Thats better than Dr, right?
        • One Anonymous Bloke 10.3.1.1

          4 September 2016 at 8:54 pm

          That depends on the circumstances by which one becomes the other. Being struck off for fraud, for example.
    • Chooky 10.4

      4 September 2016 at 9:56 pm

      +100 UT…thanks for those links ….very sobering …and Wakefield truly is an impressive man with remarkable courage
      • One Anonymous Bloke 10.4.1

        5 September 2016 at 7:52 am

        🙄

        …who will be suing the BMJ any day now…

        Who perpetrated this fraud? There is no doubt that it was Wakefield. Is it possible that he was wrong, but not dishonest: that he was so incompetent that he was unable to fairly describe the project, or to report even one of the 12 children’s cases accurately? No. A great deal of thought and effort must have gone into drafting the paper to achieve the results he wanted: the discrepancies all led in one direction; misreporting was gross. Moreover, although the scale of the GMC’s 217 day hearing precluded additional charges focused directly on the fraud, the panel found him guilty of dishonesty concerning the study’s admissions criteria, its funding by the Legal Aid Board, and his statements about it afterwards.

        British Medical Journal, 2011.

        Cling to your straw!
11. joe90 11

    4 September 2016 at 4:39 pm

    Who knew.

    Things native English speakers know, but don't know we know: pic.twitter.com/Ex0Ui9oBSL— Matthew Anderson (@MattAndersonBBC) September 3, 2016
12. joe90 12

    4 September 2016 at 5:11 pm

    As demonstrated by the Warner debacle, our own elected officials won’t stand up and defend us let alone take multinationals to task.

    The last few days have seen the emergence of an unlikely hero in Margrethe Vestager, the European competition commissioner. Undeterred by threats and bullying from the US Treasury she has demanded that Apple pay €13bn of back tax it has avoided thanks to a sweetheart deal with the Irish government. In spite of corporate bluster and inevitable future legal action, Vestager can act tough because her job is to ensure that there is fair competition in the European market. Quite an achievement for somebody who is in the Brexiteers’ hate group of “faceless bureaucrats”

    […]

    The US Treasury has been swift to attack Brussels’ attempts to ensure that a fair rate of tax is paid, getting its retaliation in first in the form of a report last week accusing the commission of acting like a “supranational tax authority”. This is a classic example of an economic rival deliberately undermining cooperation between European partners to benefit its own multinational corporations. We should celebrate the fact that the European commission is acting to protect citizens against excessive corporate power. In the global economy the real division is not between nation states but between citizens and corporations.

    […]

    Soon after the referendum, MEPs voted overwhelmingly for a series of measures including a common consolidated corporate tax base (CCCTB), a single set of rules on taxable profits for companies operating within the EU, which can stop tax wars between nations and a race to the bottom in terms of tax rates. George Osborne’s response to this post-Brexit? An announcement that he planned to reduce corporation tax to 18%. When it comes to tackling corporate tax dodging, give me faceless bureaucrats and MEPs over Tories and their corporate cronies any day.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/aug/31/faceless-eu-bureaucrats-tories-corporate-cronies-margrethe-vestager-apple-brexit
13. North 13

    4 September 2016 at 6:13 pm

    This is consummate common sense from NZ First ! I cannot speak too highly of it. Indeed it would get my vote ! Electorate, a repeat of the by-election, AND party. http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/312507/nz-first-calls-for-ncea-drivers-licence-plan

    I have personally seen young people end up on the edge of real criminality on account of a first offence of driving while forbidden.

    It doesn’t take long – coupla chances to get the licence ($80 fee mind you) – up in court again – $500 fine plus $130 costs courtesy of some off this planet JP (probably a millionaire sold-up) – against a guy who gets $180 a week – non-payment – community work – breach (transport difficulties) – prison. Doesn’t take long at all.

    It’s important that people know that even after three months suspension for demerit points there’s a $72 fee for ‘reinstatement’ of driver licence. Why ? That’s an impossible impost for so, so many poor people. So, they drive. After their suspension has expired. What the fuck can they do ? Kids to get to school etc etc etc. Perfectly legal of course……as long as you’ve got a lazy 72 bucks.

    Then they get busted. Driving while fucking forbidden again. Even though their 3 month suspension has well expired. The suspension lives on for want of 72 fucking dollars. It goes on and on and round and round and there’s real criminality looming here.

    All because people do not have the money for fuck sake. Poverty in the victims is criminal then. Fuck……don’t we pay big time for our vile judgment and our pathetic stupidity ? Another person doing time in the slammer, kids fucked up, wife/mother despairing, because they’ve offended a $6,000 a week District Court Judge and a vile hungry-for-revenge society they ‘represent’ ?
14. joe90 14

    4 September 2016 at 6:57 pm

    Nobody seems to know wtf is going on.

    House sales are down, but prices are still going up. That’s the latest message from the Real Estate Board of Greater Vancouver, but some analysts suggest the board is presenting an incomplete picture of a market on the decline.

    […]

    But for real estate consultant Ross Kay, figures like benchmark prices and year-on-year sales comparisons obscure what’s truly happening in Vancouver: the rapid deflation of an overvalued market that had been propped up by foreign buyers.

    http://vancouversun.com/business/real-estate/mixed-messages-in-vancouver-real-estate
15. b waghorn 15

    4 September 2016 at 8:08 pm

    wags lazy sunday thought is this;
    they are talking up Kawaraus property market the bit at the moment. now the last time kawarau property took off was right before the last crash,
    Be careful out there
    • Colonial Viper 15.1

      4 September 2016 at 10:26 pm

      Thanks for the intel
16. Pasupial 16

    5 September 2016 at 10:00 am

    Testing

    [no sign of today’s OM, so seeing if commenting will make it appear like on Saturday (though then I could see the post just not the comments).]

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