Open mike 05/07/2019

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1. WeTheBleeple 1

   5 July 2019 at 7:13 am

   It was five dollars a night for a meal and a bed. Fifty to a room, two rooms to a floor, and four floors high. There was a rooftop to jump from or streets to die slow in. An axe murder that week narrowed the streets odds considerably; the dismemberment of limbs signalling more than the frustrations of poverty run amok. We sat on the rooftop smoking weed, gazing down at the nervous prostitutes.

   I did a gig with Steady Eddie. I got into town, phoned a comedy club and scored an open mic spot for the next week. After the phone call I went to 'volunteer' at a homeless mission in exchange for a room and meals, as I'd done at a sister fellowship in Brisbane. "Oh no", she said through armoured glass. "This is Sydney, we have far more homeless here and many of them are mental patients. All our staff are trained professionals. Five bucks a night, dinner at six."

   The last time I saw Steady Eddie I was a teenager sneaking into The Hillcrest Tavern in Hamilton, NZ. Now I was a homeless man sneaking to avoid a deranged killer while navigating King's Cross. I'd managed to land a day helping a builder lug gib up some stairs for pocket money, and for the gig I'd get a couple of beers. Sure, the axe murderer was a risk: but this was a gig and a couple of beers.

   The manager said, "everything went great until you started singing". I drank my beer and watched the rest of the show. Eddie arrived with an attractive blonde shortly before his closing spot. He was hilarious and then he was drinking at the bar. We chatted a little. I liked him. I told Eddie my singing sucked, and he told me his was worse – but he was currently in the charts, and we laughed. Eddie left with two blondes and a 40 oz of bourbon. I took a cab back to the shelter with one eye on the meter.

   "Stop here" I said. I got out on the pavement not far from the shelter. I grabbed my guitar and bag and took stock, then a double take. The cab pulled off to leave me standing there with a dozen prostitutes lining the street all the way to the corner; and they had seen me flinch.

   "Hi Honey, you want some of this", began the first as she lewdly grabbed at me. "I've got no money." I stammered as I jostled guitar and bag, hands busy and thus helpless. "Well you can do me for your jacket." Says the next as she pulls her top up to reveal breasts bursting from a red lace bra. "No no," says the third, "you can do me for your guitar" as she lifts her skirt and sidles a bare ass toward me. I pick up the pace. The suggestions and sideshow get bluer as I progress. The hands are all over me, tits, ass, pussy; rubbing and thrusting through lace and lycra. Then I am at the corner, turgid, broke, frustrated, alive. I head for the mission as laughter rang down the alley.

   My guitar and bag got locked up. I had permission to arrive late and a security guard escorted me up to the room. Softly, slowly, through the lines of broken men I inched over to the empty cot. My clothes and shoes went in the small cupboard beside the single bed, one shoelace tied to my hand and the other end to the cupboard door.

   I dreamed I was on stage at the club with an audience full of prostitutes. The microphone wasn't projecting my voice but the ladies howled with laughter at the erection in my pants. One of them came up to the stage and tugged at my hand to draw me down amongst them. I woke to my hand being tugged by the shoelace as I opened my eyes a slit. A junkie was crouched in the dim light, quietly trying to undo the knot on my cupboard door. I punched down hard to the side of his face where his jaws met, knocking him to the floor. "Fuck Off" I said as he hit the floor. He scrambled backward: "I was only looking to see if you had any cigarettes, man" he lisped. "Fuck off now". He slithered off into the dark. The man in the next bed coughed and murmured. "Good job, son".

   I lay awake till dawn.
   • WeTheBleeple 1.1

     5 July 2019 at 7:55 am

     I hope the above isn't too blue? I hear worse words here daily but not in the same context. It is a story from 1997 and I laid it out as it happened.

     This is an excerpt from: Down & Out Down Under – a collection of short stories (in progress) from Aus/NZ about 'how the other half lives.'
     • francesca 1.1.1

       5 July 2019 at 9:45 am

       I thought it was fabulous.I remember being in Sydney and King's Cross during that whole , what was it, a serial axe murderer rampaging at random

       The fear and excitement!

       You've lived on the edge WTB, and lived to tell the tale

       Thanks
       • WeTheBleeple 1.1.1.1

         5 July 2019 at 10:13 am

         It was a schizophrenic guy Rafael Gavranovic who attacked at least three, but was found not guilty by means of insanity.

         I can't find details of his residence, the Police were in that shelter a few times checking over resident lists to try find the guy. I guess only local cops and law would remember details that far back.

         I had a guy lunge for me with a large knife there. I didn't even see him coming, had never met or spoke to him. Luckily security saw him pull the knife and took him down a couple of feet from me. Close call.

         Maybe I punched his boyfriend? Staff kicked him out and told me he was a junkie and PTSD vet ‘with a few problems.’
     • veutoviper 1.1.2

       5 July 2019 at 9:50 am

       IMO powerful writing, WTB. Definitely not too blue for the subject. The clean direct writing style is perfect and tells it as it is – or rather was. Anything more descriptive (eg descriptive adjectives etc) would lose the message IMO.

       Is the collection of short stories to be all your own work, experiences? The short story is probably my most favourite genre and is one of the hardest to master as it has a tight framework to be achieved – and imo you have done it perfectly in the one above. I could 'feel' the experience.

       A couple of friends of mine teach creative writing at Victoria and Massey Universities, and one in particular, specialises in the personal memoir and personal essay. I am going to copy your excerpt above to her and I think she will be impressed.

       While writing the above, I realised that it reminded me of a little book of a similar nature I had and treasured years ago. It was a collection of short stories by/about a diverse group of people who were part of Wellington's so called 'underworld' back in the 1960s/70s – a world of small time crime, honour amongst thieves, madams who looked after their staff etc which was being overtaken by a darker, more drug driven element which eventually took over the old world. The book was a chronicle of the way life had been in that underworld and the consequences of its loss.

       I knew a number of the people whose stories made up the collection – some of which were written by them personally and others were written as interviews by a local journalist who saw what was happening and was inspired to pull the book together as a memory of that part of Wellington's history. I cannot remember the name of the book, or the journalist, but your post has inspired me to try to track both down and refind that book. Probably well out of print etc, but somewhere in Wellington it will still exist. Archives NZ?

       Keep going on this, WTB. It is an important part of both your own history and the social history of our country (and Australia).
       • WeTheBleeple 1.1.2.1

         5 July 2019 at 10:29 am

         Thanks for the compliments, I think my writing is finally maturing where it sounds like my voice not some Bukowski fan trying to emulate…

         Bukowski could write a short story!

         I interviewed Henry Rollins one time and he said of Bukowski that he only had one line 'life sucks and I'm drunk again' – he made a good point. Bukowski was flatting with the author Hubert Selby Junior (Last Exit to Brooklyn, Requiem For a Dream) and turned me on to his writing. 'The Demon' was a startling book.

         For me, the attempted novel didn't work. The memories were all snapshots rather than a narrative. There was no thread only survival. Hence short stories.

         The stories will be my experiences, and sidetracks to others stories where discussions are recalled. Still trying to 'capture' Sarge, a vet who showed young street people the ropes to survival on Sydney's streets. We downed a goon of wine while talking which didn't help…
         • francesca 1.1.2.1.1

           5 July 2019 at 10:37 am

           “There was no thread , only survival”

           Now that is stunning WTB

           I love it all!
           I also had a chaotic childhood and young adulthood,nothing made sense , you had to be ready to run (wore a dress only about 3 times in my life, I reckon for that very reason)But I don’t regret it , and reading the sense of aliveness ,immediacy, and richness in your “snapshot”I don’t reckon you do either.
         • veutoviper 1.1.2.1.2

           5 July 2019 at 10:43 am

           "For me, the attempted novel didn't work. The memories were all snapshots rather than a narrative. There was no thread only survival. Hence short stories."

           The snapshot is much more powerful, imo. I like it far more than a full length historical type narrative. The snapshot allows the reader to participate in/savour/feel a moment in time, an experience. That is what happened to me when I read your snapshot above. The reader can then linger in the moment, think about it etc, before moving on to the next snapshot, with each snapshot possibly invoking a different experience. You have chosen well – don't let it go. Kia kaha

           [Sorry, not trying to lecture – was just very moved by your post and want to see more!]
         • WeTheBleeple 1.1.2.1.3

           5 July 2019 at 11:05 am

           Correction – Rollins flatted with HSJ – not Bukowski. I doubt he'd have let him in his door. Rollins was quite hardcore straight-edge at that stage and had very poor opinions of drunks.

           I turned up hammered for the interview. It was awkward but we got past it.
           • gsays 1.1.2.1.3.1

             5 July 2019 at 1:23 pm

             Gritty rather than blue, either way i found it compelling, thanks WTB. A glimpse into a slice of life this boy hasn't experienced.

             Rollins is an interesting character, can communicate strongly held views without being preachy.
             • WeTheBleeple …

               5 July 2019 at 8:58 pm

               I actually read that wrong thinking you said he was preachy.

               I reckon he can/could certainly come across preachy but there's usually a back story worth hearing to explain some of his views.

               Rollins nails it himself in a recent appearance in Portlandia, where Phil reforms his band Riot Spray.

               Series 8 Episode 1 Riot Spray

               Rollins: When I was younger I didn't like anything and now I like a lot of stuff.
               • WeTheBleeple …

                 5 July 2019 at 9:47 pm

                 This documentary is brilliant

                 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pg2N2DkQn74
2. A 2

   5 July 2019 at 7:27 am

   2am WINZ queue anyone?

   https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12246774

   I’d quote the article but cant decide what to cut out – suggest read all
   • WeTheBleeple 2.1

     5 July 2019 at 7:40 am

     That's bloody awful. And then WINZ try shift blame to the helpers for this mess. They love to treat you with suspicion and prejudice, had my fill of these mongrels in the past.
3. Gristle 3

   5 July 2019 at 7:41 am

   The SFO decide not to prosecute Nigel Murray because it's too expensive.

   Over $30m spent on Kim Dotcom's extradition trials.

   One of these people actually committed a criminal offense in NZ.
   • tc 3.1

     5 July 2019 at 8:30 am

     Predictable. Murray's good at this, he's got form which Coleman was informed about.

     Then there's that national neutered SFO which probably have him flirty looks and a process long enough to tidy up the loose ends.
   • Blazer 3.2

     5 July 2019 at 9:06 am

     I noticed his outrageous expenses were still way,way,less than Hisco's.
4. Sanctuary 4

   5 July 2019 at 7:52 am

   I see Hosking is now "premium content" at the Herald.

   More reason to buy a subscription. Or on second thoughts, maybe not.
   • Incognito 4.1

     5 July 2019 at 7:56 am

     Always thought of Hosking as a premium donna.
     • Robert Guyton 4.1.1

       5 July 2019 at 8:13 am

       Premium?

       Premagnum?

       Promagnum?

       Cromagnum.
       • Nick 4.1.1.1

         5 July 2019 at 9:22 am

         Premium Prick.
       • greywarshark 4.1.1.2

         5 July 2019 at 1:51 pm

         Robert

         Lol definitely you're top of the list. And incidentally the Murdoch cartoon this a.m. in the Nelson Mail/stuff seems to refer to the recentclimate change thumbs-down.
   • Dennis Frank 4.2

     5 July 2019 at 8:19 am

     Excellent strategy from the Herald management. Put him behind the paywall so he can preach only at the converted. Since the battle for public opinion nowadays occurs in the middle ground, the rightists get to lose their champion & centrists won't have to roll their eyes at him any more. Win/win all round, eh?
   • tc 4.3

     5 July 2019 at 8:23 am

     Tells you everything you need to know about the standard of egotistical immature rant granny calls 'premium'.
   • Rapunzel 4.4

     5 July 2019 at 11:24 am

     I broke the other day and took the premium option with a local delivery paper on Sat – it will be clear at that end though that I never "opened" Hosking's rants before and won't now, there were just a few items of interest I wanted to keep up with.
   • gsays 4.5

     5 July 2019 at 1:25 pm

     The wall isn't big enough nor well guarded enough.

     I found myself listening to him via RNZ, I think it was the media slot. It was not a pleasant experience.
5. Dennis Frank 5

   5 July 2019 at 8:27 am

   Looks like the British electorate has now split into four more-or-less equal parts: Labour "was ranked fourth in a YouGov poll for The Times on just 18 per cent – its joint lowest level, matched only by Gordon Brown in the depths of the 2009 financial crisis. Labour trailed behind the Tories on 24 per cent, Brexit Party on 23 and Liberal Democrats on 20."

   https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/corbyn-labour-leader-poll-slump-low-a8988866.html

   Is 18% for Labour a negative verdict on Jeremy's (lack of) leadership? Probably, but I vaguely recall Helen Clark scored around that prior to becoming PM. Could be he's playing the `slowly slowly catchee monkey' game.
   • Gosman 5.1

     5 July 2019 at 8:49 am

     Corbyn campaigned well in 2017. However it was mainly Labour versus a terrible Tory party campaign effort. Since then both the Tories AND Corbyn have impoded. I don't know how he will change that dynamic.
     • Dennis Frank 5.1.1

       5 July 2019 at 9:07 am

       A character test for him, this crisis. The zen sidestep could yet work. I'd rather he told the nation what to do though. See how the news featured a woman brexiteer ranting about slavery to the EU this morning? So they're playing the freedom card.

       Jeremy could cite `free to choose' as principled dogma, outflank the Tories on the right like Helen Clark did. Leftists acting like rightists is a known behavioural pattern since the '80s so voters are comfortable with it.

       Equally he could steal a portion of the conservative electoral base by telling them independence means reverting to being told what to do by indigenous leaders rather than the Eurocrats. Tories love the lash of the whip so he could easily grab 10% of them with that type of leadership rhetoric.
       • Gosman 5.1.1.1

         5 July 2019 at 9:21 am

         Agreed he should do something. At the moment he is trying to play both sides of the aisle and it is simply not working for him. He looks weak and indecisive and more importantly losing support from the group of Labour activists who brought him to power.
         • WeTheBleeple 5.1.1.1.1

           5 July 2019 at 10:41 am

           It's unfortunate he looks weak, being the only one honest enough to 'not know' the way out of such a mess. Needs lessons in bluster.
       • joe90 5.1.1.2

         5 July 2019 at 11:37 am

         Here she is.

         God this is embarrassing. pic.twitter.com/y6v5W9H8GP

         — Stig Abell (@StigAbell) July 4, 2019
         • Gosman 5.1.1.2.1

           5 July 2019 at 2:45 pm

           Why is that embarrassing? She is expressing her firmly held opinion and representing the people who democratically chose her to do just that.
6. A 6

   5 July 2019 at 8:28 am

   Well THIS is interesting….NZ removed the ability for property investors to off set residential property losses.

   MSM stands to the side, useless. This happened last week – it should be big news but we’ve got crickets.
7. WeTheBleeple 7

   5 July 2019 at 8:30 am

   Soldiers in need of help.

   People get broken when exposed to trauma, and if society sends them into harms way society should then be obliged to help them.

   https://www.stuff.co.nz/taranaki-daily-news/news/113934132/young-army-veterans-in-need-of-mental-healthcare-are-slipping-through-the-gaps

   I can't imagine the horrors some of these folk go through, but I do know they go through it to serve our country and protect the rest of us. These people deserve kindness, respect, assistance, and a place in the sun.

   I can't imagine follow up is easy however. PTSD causes isolation, thus leaving one to one's own thoughts. The worst decisions are often born in isolation. Reaching out is so hard yet so vital.

   "continuing to try and spread the message that it is ok to not be ok, and to ask for help."

   Hear hear.
8. Pat 8

   5 July 2019 at 9:01 am

   virtue signalling?…..I think the signal is a little more explicit.

   "Cull’s welcome speech was anything but welcoming.

   “I’ve taken this opportunity to welcome you and this conference to Dunedin – not because I support all of the various plans and projects that will be promoted here, but so you can hear why some of those plans are not welcome here.

   “So, to be clear, if you’re promoting fossil fuel exploration, extraction and exploitation – and especially its expansion – then understand you are at odds with this community and my council that represents it.”

   He ended by calling fossil fuel exploration and exploitation a “dangerous and immoral folly”.

   https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2019/07/05/667795/the-un-welcome-speech-dunedins-mayor-gave-miners
   • marty mars 8.1

     5 July 2019 at 10:19 am

     Cool – he has gone up in my estimation – a few mates in dunners don't like him for some reason. Leadership in action – good luck for the next few 'restful' years sir.
     • McFlock 8.1.1

       5 July 2019 at 2:04 pm

       Much of the animosity seems to be from supporters of a local councillor who is "polarising", as in that many people think the councillor is a dickhead, but his supporters think he walks on water.
       • marty mars 8.1.1.1

         5 July 2019 at 2:22 pm

         I thought the stadium had something to do it.
         • McFlock 8.1.1.1.1

           5 July 2019 at 2:36 pm

           Possibly, he was anti-stadium. But most of the people who knock him that I've encountered were also anti-stadium. Maybe he wasn't anti enough for their tastes. But the ongoing financing of the stadium has been questionable. He has been pro one or two other developments that were pretty controversial, ISTR.

           I've never had too much problem with him either way. Just seems to be pretty bland, nothing too amazing but a solid worker. There are other councillors who are more polarising, and then the usual bunch whose passion for original projects is inversely proportional to the proximity of the next election.
9. francesca 9

   5 July 2019 at 10:02 am

   https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/jul/04/planting-billions-trees-best-tackle-climate-crisis-scientists-canopy-emissions

   So how about we have a nationalised forest service to implement our aspirations to plant 1 billion trees?

   Including research, nurseries, engineers, maintenance crews, millers

   Instead of planting short rotation pines, we plant long term hardwoods, mixed native plantations that don't get clear felled but selectively logged for high end use, and we leave the pines and other conifers much longer for their heartwood, thus removing the need for treating with poisons.

   Only a nationalised industry can do this, opting for long term gains over short term profit.Once set in motion, its in perpetuity, dedicated forestry land publicly owned cant be turned in to dairy or whatever new short sighted bonanza shows up.

   And what say we have dedicated plantations for all future public buildings , schools, housing, libraries etc, getting away from carbon emitting concrete?

   Each generation plants for future generations , so there's continuity.

   We grow mushrooms ,or rather , we facilitate them , medicinal and otherwise as a sideline

   within the forests.
   • Dennis Frank 9.1

     5 July 2019 at 10:16 am

     Good thinking, Francesca. I've often wondered why pine replacement doesn't happen – just short-termism or is growing alternative trees just too hard here? I wonder if there's a relevant forestry lobby group, that could push policy from a resilience perspective instead of status quo complacency.

     As regards mushrooms, nostalgia tempts me to advocate the magical, but realism reminds me there’s too many folk with vulnerable mental states. Would be interested in hearing from people with expertise in the potential benefits of diverse species of mushrooms though.
     • francesca 9.1.1

       5 July 2019 at 10:29 am

       https://www.tanestrees.org.nz/

       A great model and underway

       And apparently the quality of NZ grown oak, despite fast growth is pretty good

       We have a history of chasing short term gains , boom and bust cycles

       Maybe its our youth as a country.

       In the UK oak forests are attached to Universities , with repairs, future building, roof replacement in mind.This was instituted back in an era where there was a different perception of time

       We modern day desperadoes want it all now, with no thought for the morrow
       • greywarshark 9.1.1.1

         5 July 2019 at 2:24 pm

         And we have created a world that mirrors that – we have cut down our future to the day after next year. Changing fixed minds based on 20th century thinking is almost impossible, I think one has to smile and go round them.

         Trying to keep that in mind while still planning rationally for the near future is the hardest thing.
     • WeTheBleeple 9.1.2

       5 July 2019 at 12:09 pm

       Taranaki farmers were saved from going broke once by the export of wood ear fungi to China. There are a range of fungi we could grow for a range of purposes.

       One interesting emerging idea is to use fungi to devour waste streams while making packaging and other materials.

       Another is to use fungi as part of bio-remediation on riparian edges and elsewhere.

       There's medicinal fungi of many types, and huge markets for them in Asia. Western medicine is slowly coming on board when they can isolate compounds and make exorbitantly priced products.

       There's insecticidal fungi we can use for research and bio-control.

       There's turning forestry slash to topsoil.

       Then there's food.

       Off the top of my head…

       There's psilocybin mushrooms in my front garden… I did not put them there but lol, maybe they recognised me and moved in.
     • greywarshark 9.1.3

       5 July 2019 at 2:16 pm

       I had a look through Lincoln staff and programs once thinking that is where they would have a good silviculture program but it seemed to feature pines. We like to stick to the good idea, keep it going.

       Fransesca said so rightly:

       Instead of planting short rotation pines, we plant long term hardwoods, mixed native plantations that don't get clear felled but selectively logged for high end use, and we leave the pines and other conifers much longer for their heartwood, thus removing the need for treating with poisons.

       Only a nationalised industry can do this, opting for long term gains over short term profit.Once set in motion, its in perpetuity, dedicated forestry land publicly owned cant be turned in to dairy or whatever new short sighted bonanza shows up.

       There will be others out there who think the same. How can we help?
       Shane Jones recently announced planting of native trees in Waimea Nelson.
       https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/113953302/government-announces-70000-trees-to-be-planted-to-protect-tasmans-waimea-inlet

       Facts about the effect of planting pine trees and harvesting them leaving the land bare:
       A Tasman District Council and NIWA study released in 2018 found that recently harvested pine forests along with bank erosion were responsible for a high proportion of sediment in the Waimea Inlet, which is the largest semi-enclosed coastal estuary in the South Island. Coverage of very soft mud in the inlet soared from 10ha in 1999 to 551ha in 2013….

       Jones said the national tree-planting programme was "on-track" to have 80,000 trees planted by the end of the current season, with 65,000 trees already planted.
   • Pat 9.2

     5 July 2019 at 10:24 am

     “This new quantitative evaluation shows [forest] restoration isn’t just one of our climate change solutions, it is overwhelmingly the top one,” said Prof Tom Crowther at the Swiss university ETH Zürich, who led the research. “What blows my mind is the scale. I thought restoration would be in the top 10, but it is overwhelmingly more powerful than all of the other climate change solutions proposed.”

     Crowther emphasised that it remains vital to reverse the current trends of rising greenhouse gas emissions from fossil fuel burning and forest destruction, and bring them down to zero. He said this is needed to stop the climate crisis becoming even worse and because the forest restoration envisaged would take 50-100 years to have its full effect of removing 200bn tonnes of carbon."

     but…

     "However, some scientists said the estimated amount of carbon that mass tree planting could suck from the air was too high. Prof Simon Lewis, at University College London, said the carbon already in the land before tree planting was not accounted for and that it takes hundreds of years to achieve maximum storage. He pointed to a scenario from the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change 1.5C report of 57bn tonnes of carbon sequestered by new forests this century."

     however…

     "But tree planting is “a climate change solution that doesn’t require President Trump to immediately start believing in climate change, or scientists to come up with technological solutions to draw carbon dioxide out of the atmosphere”, Crowther said. “It is available now, it is the cheapest one possible and every one of us can get involved.” Individuals could make a tangible impact by growing trees themselves, donating to forest restoration organisations and avoiding irresponsible companies, he added."

     Nothing to lose
   • Robert Guyton 9.3

     5 July 2019 at 10:26 am

     Yes
   • WeTheBleeple 9.4

     5 July 2019 at 10:47 am

     It pleases me so much to see how many people are growing in ecological awareness and proffering practical solutions to move forward. Not just here in TS but all over the place.
10. marty mars 10

    5 July 2019 at 10:31 am

    Sad story all around

    RIP Simone – I'm sorry everything fell apart for you. You did some good work for refugees – thank you.

    A human rights lawyer who was jailed after shouting racist abuse at Air India staff was found dead days after being released from prison, police have said.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/jul/04/lawyer-who-racially-abused-flight-crew-found-dead-after-jail-release
11. adam 11

    5 July 2019 at 10:51 am

    For those who feel a bit economic ignorant. Or understanding why you feel like crap under capitalism.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjJpmLVvxP0&ab_channel=TheRationalNational
    • Blazer 11.1

      5 July 2019 at 12:06 pm

      Not unsympathetic to Wolf's views.

      Does he have alternatives to the Capitalist model?

      He errs at the beginning by stating the difference between hourly wage rates and the price of the end service or product is profit.

      Most people are aware of operational costs,rents,insurances,taxes,cost of goods,super..etc

      Multi national companies have the influence and resources that the small businessman does not.(to state the obvious)
      • WeTheBleeple 11.1.1

        5 July 2019 at 12:12 pm

        "Does he have alternatives to the Capitalist model?"

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynbgMKclWWc

        My favorite economist.
    • veutoviper 11.2

      5 July 2019 at 12:47 pm

      See 16 below.
12. Professor Longhair 12

    5 July 2019 at 11:03 am

    Right wing loon Katie Hopkins and her apartheid state supporters

    A word far stronger than "despicable" is needed to describe her and the people who applaud her racist ranting….

    https://www.thejc.com/news/news-features/katie-hopkins-homelands-film-premiere-london-hendon-islamophobia-1.486061
    • Andre 12.1

      5 July 2019 at 1:47 pm

      I'm sure Hopkins appreciates your efforts in spreading her work to a wider audience.
      • Professor Longhair 12.1.1

        5 July 2019 at 2:23 pm

        Hopkins' disgusting views are consistent with those of Boris Johnson and the rest of those rats in the Conservative Party. She's a moderate compared to the likes of old Yenta Hodge and her vicious cronies.
13. Robert Guyton 13

    5 July 2019 at 11:21 am

    Marcus posted this link to Monbiot:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jul/03/land-reform-brute-power-billionaire-press-attacks?CMP=share_btn_fb&fbclid=IwAR19LprhYKBidvX-ytKgbhoAbK8CXdQeS8hDS0sQubJmYni_nAawou8MwMA

    It's a must-read.
    • Blazer 13.1

      5 July 2019 at 12:12 pm

      Good work from Monbiot.

      An extension of Rutgers Davos observation, about millionaire media front persons,always promoting the vested interests of their billionaire owners.
    • Professor Longhair 13.2

      5 July 2019 at 12:49 pm

      Monbiot is a spineless fellow. He can't even do something that is decent (supporting the victim of an extermination campaign) without first paying lip service to the villainous lies perpetrated by the would-be exterminators.

      Whether or not you like Assange's politics (I don't), or his character (ditto), the charges he faces in the US are oppressive and inimical to free speech. The UK should resist his extradition https://t.co/PKFdtisA22.

      — George Monbiot (@GeorgeMonbiot) April 12, 2019

      As well as his moral cowardice, he's a dodgy "environmentalist"—he supports nuclear power.
      • gsays 13.2.1

        5 July 2019 at 1:45 pm

        A greater environmental mind than you or I has put forward a good Arguement for nuclear power.

        James Lovelock talked about the issue and containing the waste from nuclear. Contrasting that with the waste from gas/coal generation of electricity.

        Granted, not here in Aotearoa, (go hydro).

        I am starting to doubt some of yr proclamations, a coupla days ago a video was posted with Ben Shapiro and Andrew Neil.

        Either yrself or yr protege opined that Shapiro came second in the discussion. I watched it and I thought Shapiro ran rings around Neil. I find a lot of Shapiro's views abhorrent, but he came across more competent and consistent than the senior journalist.
        • Professor Longhair 13.2.1.1

          5 July 2019 at 2:00 pm

          I thought Shapiro ran rings around Neil….competent and consistent.

          And the sun circles the earth. Got it.

          (Whatever this fellow is smoking, I would recommend the rest of you steer clear of it.)
        • Morrissey 13.2.1.2

          5 July 2019 at 3:58 pm

          You have written that James Lovelock is credible, and that Ben Shapiro "ran rings around" Andrew Neil.

          You are under the influence of a powerful hallucinogen, aren't you?
          • gsays 13.2.1.2.1

            6 July 2019 at 1:12 pm

            Hee hee, just high on life.
14. WeTheBleeple 14

    5 July 2019 at 11:32 am

    LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

    The Trump Show Sucks Balls.
15. joe90 15

    5 July 2019 at 12:22 pm

    Bound to happen when Bolsonaro took over.

    Brazil’s Bar Association, journalists and opposition lawmakers have reacted with outrage to reports that the country’s federal police plan to investigate the bank accounts of an American journalist who published leaked conversations between prosecutors and the graft-busting judge who is now Jair Bolsonaro’s justice minister.

    The rightwing site the Antagonist (O Antagonista) reported on Tuesday that federal police had asked a money-laundering unit at Brazil’s finance ministry to investigate the “financial activities” of Glenn Greenwald.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jul/03/brazil-glenn-greenwald-investigation-outcry-bar-association-journalists
    • Professor Longhair 15.1

      5 July 2019 at 12:52 pm

      You'll be right behind this latest state campaign against a journalist, of course.
      • joe90 15.1.1

        5 July 2019 at 12:59 pm

        Unlike the alleged rapist, Greenwald's an actual journalist.
        • Professor Longhair 15.1.1.1

          5 July 2019 at 1:01 pm

          Assange was never charged with rape. One is tempted to be charitable and say that such a vicious and ignorant slur is unworthy of you, but that would be a false statement.
          • joe90 15.1.1.1.1

            5 July 2019 at 1:07 pm

            Oh, my bad.

            The alleged sexual violator.
            • Professor Longhair 15.1.1.1.1.1

              5 July 2019 at 2:12 pm

              Nope. You're still lying.

              Once again: when will you start pouring filth on Glenn Greenwald? Will you start now or will you wait for the morsels of disinformation to be fed to you from the Brazilian/U.S. authorities, as you did with the campaign against Assange?
          • greywarshark 15.1.1.1.2

            5 July 2019 at 2:29 pm

            Professor L

            Accusations Unlimited – is that your speciality. Why can't you give us time to come to the same opinion as you instead of insulting anybody different? Desist.
            • Morrissey 15.1.1.1.2.1

              5 July 2019 at 4:05 pm

              I don't think the Professor was "insulting anybody different", Mr Shark. He was simply posing the question: how long before these creeps start to pour filth on another government-designated target for destruction?
              • greywarshark …

                5 July 2019 at 4:34 pm

                Is that a rhetorical question he was posing then, or you are? I have a feeling I am missing something here. It seemed to me that he was attacking Joe90 for something that he thought that Joe90 and others might do, like pouring filth on a speaker. Ugh.

                I prefer to get down and dirty in the garden.
                • Morrissey …

                  5 July 2019 at 5:01 pm

                  He was attacking Joe90 not because of something he might do, but because of something he has actually done. (The latest examples of his pouring filth on a journalist is just above us on this thread, in messages 15.1.1 and 15.1.1.1.1)
                  • joe90 …

                    5 July 2019 at 5:44 pm

                    If only you and your sock were as concerned with Greenwald's work as you are with defending an alleged sexual offender.

                    joe90

                    11 June 2019 at 8:23 pm

                    Surprise surprise, the corruption prosecutions that resulted in Lula's imprisonment and his ineligibility to run were cooked up by the right.

                    On Sunday evening, The Intercept published a series of incendiary articles and documents purporting to expose massive problems of unethical behavior and political motives in Brazil’s Operation Car Wash—a five-year investigation into corruption at state oil company Petrobras, which resulted in the conviction of former president Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva. Based on “a massive archive of previously undisclosed materials,” The Intercept is reporting that judge Sérgio Moro, hailed in Brazil, on the Time 100 list, and in a fawning 60 Minutes segment in 2017 as a paragon of courageous civic virtue, secretly aided the prosecution in Lula’s case, an egregious ethical violation in a justice system that depends upon the impartiality of the presiding magistrate. Moro has since been appointed Justice Minister in the administration of Jair Bolsonaro, a radical right-winger who won the presidential election in 2018 after Lula was barred from running.

                    https://newrepublic.com/article/154150/conspiracy-discredit-brazils-left

                    https://theintercept.com/2019/06/09/brazil-archive-operation-car-wash/

                    Part 2

                    Part 3
                    • Morrissey …

                      5 July 2019 at 7:16 pm

                      Indeed: "incendiary articles" and exposing of "unethical behaviour and political motives" constitute a grave risk to the state. He'll have to be destroyed, just like Assange.

                      Could you explain: exactly why are you not on board with the state campaign this time?
16. veutoviper 16

    5 July 2019 at 12:40 pm

    Calling Adam – I know that you are there up at 11 but don't want to derail the thread there. Forget feeling crap under capitalism and feel great after rewatching this! Do you remember it Adam?

    Adam posted this wonderful, wonderful dance video back on 26 June 2015 on Weekend Social and I refound it a few days ago when totally crap with a full-on dose of the common cold. It restored my belief that life is still worth living and the more I played it, the better I felt.

    A must view. Thanks Adam

    PS – I am still learning the new system, so if the above does not work, here is a link to Adam’s original comment with video.

    Weekend social 26/06/2015
    • Andre 16.1

      5 July 2019 at 12:57 pm

      One of the quirks of the current comment editor is if you want to link to a specific comment on TS, putting the link as a standalone paragraph strips the #commentnumber off the URL and turns it into a link to the OP.

      But if you use the linking tool (that looks more like a misdrawn infinity symbol) or just include the link to a comment in a sentence like this https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-05-07-2019/#comment-1634457 it correctly links to the actual comment.
      • veutoviper 16.1.1

        5 July 2019 at 1:21 pm

        Thanks for that tip. I assume you mean the symbol that looks like a paperclip next to the slashed S. I used that to put in the actual link to the video which eventually came up properly! But when it did not originally come up, I then edited the comment and the toolbar doesn't come up when I edit so cannot use the symbol. LOL. So I will know for the future when that happens to put the link into a sentence.

        But that young woman is an amazing dancer! The ability to move bits of the body separately like they are all unconnected is not easy – and she is tops. The other videos of her both alone and with her dance partner are superb. Now off to find the Trump parade videos …
        Now seen Joe90’s comment below – LOL
        • Andre 16.1.1.1

          5 July 2019 at 1:41 pm

          A while back I vaguely remember lprent explained that the delay in the image showing up for video, twitter links etc had something to do with the server having to go fetch the image and then put it into the cache, and there can be delays in some of the processes to make that happen.

          Interesting what different people see that linking tool icon to be. I reckon there's a good chance that McFlock with his security background might be the only one of us that correctly interprets it as a short bit of chain at first glance.

          Sorry to derail your thread about dance …
          • joe90 16.1.1.1.1

            5 July 2019 at 1:45 pm

            I see a chain link.
            • Andre 16.1.1.1.1.1

              5 July 2019 at 1:53 pm

              I know it's supposed to be a chain link and when I work at it I can make myself see it as chain. But even though it's been there for months, every time I first glance at it I still see it as a misdrawn infinity. Funny how visual perception and mental shortcuts work.
          • veutoviper 16.1.1.1.2

            5 July 2019 at 1:51 pm

            You didn't derail it at all. But I have been so enjoying that video I wanted to thank Adam. He and I have had our spats, but it just brought me so much relief the other day, I wanted to share it and to acknowledge Adam for first putting it up.

            I am laughing at what's happening in Washington DC – the sky gods are no fools!

            But I so wanted to see Trump's Shermans!
17. joe90 17

    5 July 2019 at 12:47 pm

    Aww..

    After all that, the general public can’t see the tanks. The VIP area also includes some cornhole sets. https://t.co/K4IkoxrgAN

    — Will Sommer (@willsommer) July 4, 2019

    They turned off the webcam on the Washington Monument overlooking the Mall 😂 pic.twitter.com/Hep7izTLiV

    — Alex Cole (@acnewsitics) July 4, 2019
    • Andre 17.1

      5 July 2019 at 12:49 pm

      Maybe the new Shermans didn't make it off the production line in time?
      • Professor Longhair 17.1.1

        5 July 2019 at 12:51 pm

        Russian sabotage? You'd buy into that theory, no doubt?
        • joe90 17.1.1.1

          5 July 2019 at 12:56 pm

          You're spluttering. Damn pin bones, again?
          • Professor Longhair 17.1.1.1.1

            5 July 2019 at 12:59 pm

            Russian paranoia—you're donkey-deep in it as well. I was providing our friend, and the likes of yourself, with—by your lights—a reasonable explanation.
            • mauī 17.1.1.1.1.1

              5 July 2019 at 1:37 pm

              Well said Prof.

              ..and don't worry Biden 2020 will save us lol.
        • Andre 17.1.1.2

          5 July 2019 at 1:07 pm

          Nah. This time it was all the immigrant workers in the defense contractors that went on a go-slow when they saw the design.
          • Professor Longhair 17.1.1.2.1

            5 July 2019 at 2:25 pm

            Yes, but it was the evil Russian masterminds that persuaded them to take that go-slow action, surely.

            Surely? They control everything and everyone, as you know.
      • joe90 17.1.2

        5 July 2019 at 12:53 pm

        Huuge parade.

        Omg this made me so happy. I love this video
        thanx @Maltomash for sharing
        pic.twitter.com/JLB4T4by79

        — 🦗🍂🍃The Smokin Grasshopper🍃🍂🦗 (@Grasshopper2049) July 4, 2019
        • ianmac 17.1.2.1

          5 July 2019 at 3:53 pm

          Much more fun than the Trump Parade!
        • greywarshark 17.1.2.2

          5 July 2019 at 3:54 pm

          Thanks lol
18. WeTheBleeple 18

    5 July 2019 at 1:23 pm

    Speaking of flag referendums…

    America is gonna need one all those rednecks have turned it into a symbol of hate.
    • Professor Longhair 18.1

      5 July 2019 at 2:04 pm

      Speaking of flag referendums…

      The correct word is "referenda."

      America is gonna need one all those rednecks have turned it into a symbol of hate.

      It's not working people—scoffingly dismissed as “rednecks” by thoughtless rich pricks—that are spreading hate, but the soft, doughy white-collar bigots who have never worked in the sun in their miserable, privileged lives. People like Stephen Miller, Ben Shapiro, Jared Kushner, Donald Trump….
      • Incognito 18.1.1

        5 July 2019 at 3:38 pm

        referendum, n.

        Pronunciation: Brit. /ˌrɛfəˈrɛndəm/, U.S. /ˌrɛfəˈrɛndəm/

        Inflections: Plural referendums, referenda.

        OED
        • Morrissey 18.1.1.1

          5 July 2019 at 3:53 pm

          Quoting the OED, no less. Q.E.D.
          • Incognito 18.1.1.1.1

            5 July 2019 at 3:56 pm

            Identity crisis? Or just in two minds?
            • Morrissey 18.1.1.1.1.1

              5 July 2019 at 4:02 pm

              I ladled out the praise after you had dealt a lesson to the Professor, and you come back with an allegation like that. Sheesh! Talk about ungracious.
              • Incognito …

                5 July 2019 at 5:27 pm

                I ladled out the praise after you had dealt a lesson to the Professor, and you come back with an allegation like that.

                Peculiar prose and passionate protest. Anyway, we’re all on the same page so all good with me.

                Enjoy your weekend.
      • WeTheBleeple 18.1.2

        5 July 2019 at 4:37 pm

        Yep, that's me, a thoughtless rich prick.

        'Professor'

        And those proud boys and their truck humpin cousins are all very fine people indeed.

        Thanks for the lesson.

        You schooled me good.
        • greywarshark 18.1.2.1

          5 July 2019 at 4:48 pm

          Is there a recipe for starting flame wars? I feel that the tone of the Perfesser is familiar. Or perhaps there is a tide in the affairs of men, and it washes up lumps of spite in blogs leaving a high water mark of see-weed.
19. Rosemary McDonald 19

    5 July 2019 at 1:23 pm

    Should we be celebrating? https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/new-zealand-china-defence-relationship-recognised-through-conclusion-defence-cooperation

    https://www.beehive.govt.nz/sites/default/files/2019-07/Memorandum%20of%20Arrangement%20Concerning%20Defence%20Cooperation.pdf
20. marty mars 20

    5 July 2019 at 1:42 pm

    USA, China, Australia… and so many more – why? They know what they have to do to win and that is destroy. Not just the actual people, but hope, respect, dignity.

    China is deliberately separating Muslim children from their families, faith and language in its far western region of Xinjiang, according to new research.

    At the same time as hundreds of thousands of adults are being detained in giant camps, a rapid, large-scale campaign to build boarding schools is under way.

    Based on publicly available documents, and backed up by dozens of interviews with family members overseas, the BBC has gathered some of the most comprehensive evidence to date about what is happening to children in the region.

    … In a large hall in Istanbul, dozens of people queue to tell their stories, many of them clutching photographs of children, all now missing back home in Xinjiang.

    "I don't know who is looking after them," one mother says, pointing to a picture of her three young daughters, "there is no contact at all."

    Another mother, holding a photo of three sons and a daughter, wipes away her tears. "I heard that they've been taken to an orphanage," she says.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-48825090
21. marty mars 21

    5 July 2019 at 1:51 pm

    Good work these crews and good report from Minister Sage on fbook.

    Great progress is being made on cleaning up the Fox River since the Department of Conservation (DOC) took over managing the clean-up. Since then, Operation Tidy Fox has cleared 25 ha of rubbish between the Fox River Bridge and the confluence of the Cook River.

    The team of daily volunteers has grown from fewer than 10 to around 50 people. Together they’ve picked up 55 fadges of rubbish, with each fadge weighing around 500kgs. (Fadges are like giant wool sacks).

    It was good to thank and talk to the wonderful volunteer team and DOC staff in Fox Glacier yesterday. I look forward to the extra support the NZ Defence Force, working with DOC, is planning to provide in the coming weeks. And Government has also provided another $300,000, on top of the $300,000 provided earlier.

    Volunteers can help restore the Fox River by signing up at: https://www.doc.govt.nz/get-involved/volunteer/in-your-region/west-coast/operation-tidy-fox/ Volunteers have their accommodation and meals provided and work in teams led by DOC staff.
22. ianmac 22

    5 July 2019 at 3:19 pm

    Watching a piece of the Trump Parade and it seemed to be pretty shambolic to me. Huge gaps and amatuerish participants. Funny that faces in parade seemed to be fuzzied out.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPIv7z9-E-k
23. CHCoff 23

    5 July 2019 at 10:08 pm

    If EU politics is about incorporating the vote, & therefore you would think it's efficacy, then insular coalition bargaining before the vote is increasingly problematic when there is increasing fragmentation ( which of itself is not necessarily a bad thing ), & it seems like they have essentially a very good structure to take that into account overall if not the traditional method of using it that way.

    https://www.dw.com/en/inside-europe-women-nominated-for-eus-top-jobs/av-49472112

    Seems like some of the criticism is a mix of First Past the Post and Direct Democracy type asks that are being put forward theoretically, but to my understanding both applications of those models to what is being talked about seems misplaced.

    Hopefully they can get over this bump and reap the increased benefits after a rocky few years.

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