Open mike 05/07/2023

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, July 5th, 2023 - 62 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:


Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

62 comments on “Open mike 05/07/2023 ”

  1. Tony Veitch 1

    With the election silly season fast approaching I feel tempted to make some predictions/observations (yes, just my ‘reckons.’)

    • First, Chippy will take Labour to north of 35% and could even be touching 40%. Chippy is very relatable, and a consummate politician; he will slaughter Luxon in any televised leaders debate.
    • Expect Seymour to agitate for a wider leaders panel than just Labour and National, in an effort to shore up support for the right.
    • Luxon was an a-licker as he rose through the corporate business ranks and surrounded himself with a-lickers as a CEO. He’s not used to people questioning him (and it shows) and he’s politically shallow – a repeater of meaningless slogans and empty catch-phrases. He will be hopelessly outclassed in any debates.
    • National will barely make 30% under Luxon (but could touch 33% under Willis) and the greater % Act achieves, the lesser the Natz will get.
    • Willis would be a disaster for NZ (another Ruth Richardson). She has zero sympathy for bottom feeders (about the only thing she agrees with her CEO on); her ‘hard-working taxpayers’ are her own upper middle class, whose concern about the cost of living crisis is whether they can only afford the Gold Coast rather than the Turkish Riviera for their second overseas trip this year.
    • Seymour is going to be a very busy boy this election cycle. The Act party lacks even a modicum of talent outside Seymour and perhaps van Velden; to be fair, Seymour has held the party together silently and tightly these last few years, but he must be terrified one of his largely anonymous MPs will say or do something outrageous. Particularly the NRA gun-nut lady.
    • Act could very possibly reach 15%, but that’s about their limit, unless they start robbing the Natz of votes. If Act reach 20% the Natz will plummet to a record low (even lower than Bill English managed).
    • The Greens will achieve their customary 10% and could/will do much better, maybe north of 15% (at Labour’s expense). Most thinking people recognise the Greens as the party of environmental and social change, and with climate change biting us on the bum big time, most realise that the only way we may be able to get through the crisis is with a strong, well-resourced and interventionist government.
    • A party [Natz] that promises to make the wealthy more wealthy, the bottom-feeders more desperate, to flood the country with cheap labour, to hock off parts of the health and education systems and service industries so their mates can make a quick bob or two (ref. water services in England) is so very very out of touch.
    • Te Paarti Maori could/will be the dark horse of this election. If they can marshal their voting base to secure four or five seats, while I don’t believe they’ll hold the balance of power, they could, with the Greens, force Labour to the left.
    • A lot depends on the Labour tax policy. If it is progressive it may take some of the support the Greens will enjoy, but I’m not holding my breath!

    This election really is a ‘me’ vs ‘we’ election; with the boomers staging their last stand (a bit like General Gordon at Khartoum in 1883; the defence lasted a long time, but failed in the end), the voting momentum has swung to the younger generations, and if they turn out to vote in numbers, we shall have a third term Labour government with the Greens and TPM achieving some spectacular concessions!

    • Bearded Git 1.1

      Nice summary Veitchy…I hope you are right.

      TPM got 7% in yesterday's Roy Morgan and could be more of a force than you think.

      • Cricklewood 1.1.1

        The politcal polls are close to junk esp re minor parties now at least part of the panel is self selecting. There has been a pretty concerted effort to sign up to the panels with a view to essentially trolling / manipulating the polling companies. Eminates from a couple reddit subs.

    • ianmac 1.2

      Well done Tony. Of course Nat/Act won't be interested in the poorer people or their vote and therefore their message is for the rich and the would/be rich.

      Wonder why the very rich are investing big money in Nat/Act?

    • Herodotus 1.3

      “. Most thinking people recognise the Greens as the party of environmental…”- pity that impression is very misplaced – whist their constitution places this prominently they continue to select list candidates that on their bios make little or no mention. Action speaks louder than hollow words !!!I commented this when their list at the last election came out and of those that were to make parliament based on the polls at the time only 2 made any environmental claims !!I bet only a few older supporters would know anything about “ban the dam” song or its history! Time to call the greens out I am sorry they are not the environmental party of the 1990’s but still trade on that. And for your climate change any party that believes that we can buy Carbon credits form overseas to cover for our failure to meet international commitments, by action IMO displays that they do not take this seriously.

      • Tony Veitch 1.3.1

        Ah, but I did say 'thinking' people!

        • Tiger Mountain 1.3.1.1

          yes

        • Herodotus 1.3.1.2

          Get personal instead of addressing any issues raised – Typical. And the world continues to get hotter and we are let down by a lack lustre Green Party and supporters who accept blindly.
          as I said the Green party today and an inferior image of what was. And as an aside do you know with searching the environmental history of this country and John Hanlon’s song ??
          perhaps you need to educate yourself ??🤫 thinking you are not.

          • Tony Veitch 1.3.1.2.1

            None of the political parties address the issue of climate change with the urgency it requires!

            But . . . the Greens are light years ahead of the Natz, and Act don't even believe climate change is a thing!

            Give me the Greens any day over ALL the rest!

  2. Tiger Mountain 2

    Tony has made some nice points here. To respond to just two…Act MP Nicole McKee of COLFO (NZ Council of Licensed Firearms Owners) fame downplayed her “love is a warm gun” views since becoming an MP. COLFO did have links to the American NRA via International Sports Shooting organisations, but the references were deleted from their online presence. COLFO makes out it is a grassroots outfit but in reality more represents the gun industry and lobby.

    Re Te Pāti Māori, being the er, “dark horse”…
    TPM are well aware of the age bubble re young Māori numbers…
    https://www.stats.govt.nz/information-releases/maori-population-estimates-at-30-june-2022/

    Get ’em enrolled, get ’em on the Māori roll, and importantly–get ’em voting! At Kaitaia market every Sat an Electoral Commission stand has been doing good business. The guy in charge has full moko and has been around a bit.

    Some of my reckons are…the generational voter shift is starting to become evident, though it will likely be 2026 before it fully impacts.

    The rise of Act in parliamentary politics was initiated by the Natzos Epsom deal, without that life support they would have been out of Parliament years ago. ACT is AO/NZ’s MAGA in many ways and their policy if ever allowed, would swing a wrecking ball through Te Tiriti, Fair Pay Agreements, and hundreds of other incremental reforms achieved in the last few years.

    The primary task is to keep Natzo/Act preferably well away, or even a seat away if it comes down to it, from political office on October 14.

  3. Bearded Git 3

    Bartholomew Frintin Smurth, Humphrey Wigbert Porter. and Quinton Breckenridge have been suspended by the Marylebone Cricket Club because of frightfully bad behaviour over Australia cheating at cricket.

    For the many not the few.

    • observer 3.1

      That was a spoof report. It's been doing the rounds and some have been taken in, but the names are made up.

  4. Dennis Frank 4

    You won't believe it, but the education establishment is actually doing something clever! Naturally, teachers are freaking out in response:

    Science teachers are shocked that an advance version of the draft school science curriculum contains no mention of physics, chemistry or biology.

    The so-called "fast draft" said science would be taught through four contexts – the Earth system, biodiversity, food, energy and water, and infectious diseases. It was sent to just a few teachers for their feedback ahead of its release for consultation next month, but some were so worried by the content they leaked it to their peers.

    Teachers who had seen the document told RNZ they had grave concerns about it. It was embarrassing, and would lead to "appalling" declines in student achievement, they said.

    Teachers predicting the future. Fearfully so. You can see the tacit assumption operating: we must do as we've always done, and pretend that global disaster isn't happening.

    Dunno who we ought to credit for steering education towards survival and resilience. Run it by any youngsters you know, see if they like the idea of learning how to survive.

    "What we are pushing towards with the current fast draft is more of a holistic approach to how the different science concepts interact with each other rather than a purist, siloed approach."

    Nat/Lab voters will be bamboozled by this. They are congenitally unable to think in such a sophisticated manner. Silos forever!

    The Ministry of Education said it was still finalising the draft document. "We are currently in the process of completing the draft science content based on feedback from fast testing, as well as being guided by national and international research such as PISA (Programme for International Student Assessment). We will then go out for wider sector and public feedback from August to late October this year, with a full draft, and sufficient time for people to give us feedback," it said.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/493178/teachers-shocked-at-leaked-draft-of-science-curriculum-where-s-the-physics-and-chemistry

    • ianmac 4.1

      Actually being wholistic about science is a good idea. Most topics are multi "subject". Imagine dealing with flooding as having many legs with Biology and Physics and Chemistry involved. Would a Chemistry trained expert be much help?

      • Dennis Frank 4.1.1

        Would a Chemistry trained expert be much help?

        If such a person had specialised in biochem, then yes. Focus would be on remedial action such as desalinating sea incursions into arable land, or the effect of excess silt & clay from river floods…

        • Mac1 4.1.1.1

          Has a year nine lad visit to help with his homework. While he worked on his computer, I bottled a brew.

          The science involved in that! Alcohol by volume, yeast working, airborne yeasts and contamination, vinegar, sugar and CO2, sterilisation of bottles, accuracy of measurement with hydrometers and with ingredients, specific gravity, optimum temperatures for brewing, secondary fermentation…. it goes on.

          A science teacher at my school taught science by brewing beer. However, the boys weren't allowed to sample the finished product. Some staff did help out.

          • Dennis Frank 4.1.1.1.1

            airborne yeasts

            A few years back I read a description of bacteria riding air currents in the upper atmosphere – part of Gaia. Invisible ecosystems up above.

            That contamination effect you mention reminds us that we breathe in such organisms routinely too. Cilia in the lungs evolved to remove particles we breathe in but maybe we absorb organisms into our microbiome too…

    • LawfulN 4.2

      My guess is that the new curriculum is written by people with education PhDs – which are considered joke qualifications among others with PhDs.

      In my experience they are generally not very bright and spend a lot of time promoting philosophical ideas they don't really understand. I have zero confidence that these changes will be positive.

      • Dennis Frank 4.2.1

        In view of the track record of our educational establishment, such scepticism is inevitable. However traditionalism = collective brain death nowadays. So any innovative trend ought to be encouraged.

        I specifically agree with you re the promoting/applying interface. Leftwingers usually default towards idealism, and thus impracticality. It's vital to get the application of any survival strategy right. Education must not produce another generation of virtue-signallers. Enough of that shit already!

        Return to first principles by examining the root of the word:

        there are two different Latin roots of the English word "education." They are "educare," which means to train or to mold, and "educere," meaning to lead out. While the two meanings are quite different, they are both represented in the word "education." Thus, there is an etymological basis for many of the vociferous debates about education today.

        The opposing sides often use the same word to denote two very different concepts. One side uses education to mean the preservation and passing down of knowledge and the shaping of youths in the image of their parents. The other side sees education as preparing a new generation for the changes that are to come–readying them to create solutions to problems yet unknown. https://eric.ed.gov/?id=EJ724880

        It's that latter meaning which provides the survival skill. The former will merely produce another generation of suitwearing dorks failing at everything they do.

      • Incognito 4.2.2

        FFS!

        Your comment is rude, biased, and ignorant. You trash Education PhDs based on hearsay, without any rational & reasonable argument, and without any evidence to back it up. I guess that you have no idea of what Science is or how to teach it. You have drawn a conclusion based on virtually nothing other than hot air about a leaked but non-disclosed document without even knowing what’s in it. I consider your comment a sick joke.

  5. Muttonbird 5

    I find it incredible the Tenancy Tribunal considers $12000 a high award. It should be 10x that as a starting point. The pathetically small penalties NZ’s amateur landlords face are no disincentive for criminal behaviour.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/homed/renting/132468594/vulnerable-tenants-subject-to-dreadful-living-conditions-with-absentee-landlord

    A register for property owners and their agents is crucial. The Greens are the only party demanding this.

  6. Dennis Frank 6

    Analysts often use triadic framing (due to 3 influencing mental processes – because it's an archetype). Here's Bomber's economic triad:

    The 3 pillars of NZs economic success:

    • Stealing Māori land and never paying the true value of that theft back
    • Exploitative low wage economy thanks to deunionising the NZ workforce and becoming reliant on exploiting migrant workers
    • Rigged Capitalism which IRD showed us allows the richest to avoid taxes.

    Theft, exploitation and rigging the system for the rich, those are the 3 pillars that hold up the NZ economy.

    https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2023/07/05/the-biggest-lie-in-nz-politics-the-3-pillars-of-nzs-economic-success-and-the-grim-threats-to-it/

    Soundly based on our neocolonial history, therefore impossible to invalidate, his thesis stands. However our economy is based on more than that triad. It ramped up to a tetrad via the inclusion of tech as 4th element. Invention, innovation, know-how, are all fundamental drivers of western economies.

    Just look at the transformative effect of refrigeration in the 1880s, that produced seven or eight decades of wealth flow from Britain to here. I recall NZ being identified as having the highest standard of living in the world when I was a kid.

    Which really does force us to include trade as a 5th element, ramping the whole up into a pentad. But look at the interesting part of his 2nd pillar: migrant workers. I heard on the radio recently folks discussing Labour's immigration stats – apparently last year back up to record inflow. Doesn't matter if infrastructure can't cope & the country gets constipated in consequence, jam more foreigners in somehow. Shanty-towns along the desert road could become a tourist attraction… surprise

    • Descendant Of Smith 6.1

      So much of our intellectual, artistic and call work can be done from anywhere now that the centralisation of work to main centres could be reversed and jobs spread more widely across rural areas. This would add to rural economies, boost Maori employment into better quality sustainable work, make NZ more resilient and reduce pressure on urban infrastructure.

      We only don't do this due to a failure of our poor management elite to be able to cope and adapt despite the high undeserved salaries they are paid.

      It is time for government to take a lead on this who are likely one of the worst at taking jobs away from regions and sticking them in main centres – to the point that departments like IRD, TEC, MBIE etc have no boots on the ground.

  7. Dennis Frank 7

    Climate change: World's hottest day since records began

    https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-66104822

    The world's average temperature reached a new high on Monday 3 July, topping 17 degrees Celsius for the first time.

    US researchers said the new record was the highest in any instrumental record dating back to the end of the 19th century. Last month has also been confirmed as the world's warmest June yet recorded.

    So Labour & National are on the right track. Suit-wearers will be delighted that their culture is producing such dramatic results. Grab a Nat/Lab politician & slap them on the back, tell them to remain staunch & they can reach further new heights of achievement.

  8. aj 8

    Ten symptoms of woke mind virus:

    1. You read books, and don't burn them.

    2. You embrace science.

    3. You are willing to change your mind when new information becomes available.

    4. You understand that most issues aren't black and white.

    5. You believe in true equality for all people.

    6. You like to share.

    7. You embrace cooperation.

    8. You respect others' rights.

    9. You believe culture and the arts has value.

    10. You care for the planet and all of its life.

    • Mac1 8.1

      So that's the virus I've got. At the moment I have more symptoms including coughing, congestion and sore throat….. and it hurts to laugh!

    • Dennis Frank 8.2

      Excellent listing there. Problem is the dichotomy between that and wokeist behaviour, hmm? Your viral thesis seems to be based on a flawed assumption.

      Re #1, christians weren't the only folks into public fire rituals: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_burning

      Historical Notes affirms that "Plato wished to burn all the writings of Democritus that he could collect". In his own lifetime, Plato was not in a position to destroy all copies of his rival's writings, but Plato's purpose was largely achieved through the choices made by scribes in later Classical times. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_book-burning_incidents

      Operation Dark Heart, memoir by Anthony Shaffer (by the U. S. Dept. of Defense). On September 20, 2010, the Pentagon bought and burned 9,500 copies of Operation Dark Heart, nearly all the first run copies for supposedly containing classified information.

      The Conseil scolaire catholique Providence that oversees elementary and secondary schools in Southwestern Ontario held a "flame purification" ceremony in 2019, burning and burying 5,000 books from 30 Southwestern Ontario French-language schools for depicting racist stereotypes of Indigenous peoples of the Americas. Tintin in America and Asterix and the Great Crossing were among the burned books.

    • Hunter Thompson II 8.3

      Here's #11: You can laugh at yourself

  9. Muttonbird 9

    Hi Newshub and Christopher, MMA/UFC is to blame for this, not Oranga Tamariki.

    Stop. Selling. Violence.

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/07/christopher-luxon-says-mma-style-fight-video-in-youth-justice-residence-is-heartbreaking-and-sickening.html

    • aj 9.1

      yes totally.

    • observer 9.2

      From that link:

      Luxon wouldn't say if National would build more of these youth justice facilities.

      "I don't know, I haven't thought that part through".

      Like his sentencing policy at the conference, he simply doesn't bother to do any homework at all. He's the emptiest leader National have ever had.

      • Patricia Bremner 9.2.1

        Luxon confronted by reality.

        "I don't know, I haven't thought that part through."

        That is so revealing.

    • Descendant Of Smith 9.3

      That shit happened all the time at the school I was at.

      Would have been nice at the time if people were concerned at all about stopping it. Like this instance those in charge i.e. teachers were part of the problem in condoning it.

      Guess it was supposed to make you a man.

      About twenty years ago I met an 88 year old man. The father of a colleague. She happened to mention to him that I too had gone to the same school as he had. The mere mention of the school had him visibly shaking. Took us half an hour to calm him down. His treatment at that school had him scarred and hurt for life. His daughter was completely unaware of the trauma he had gone through.

      We have heard similar stories from the recent enquiries into abuse in state care. How the fuck is this still happening? The more the rhetoric of crime and punishment is pushed, the more the bring back the cane it didn't do me any harm brigade pushes their message, the more gangs push the don't nark, might is right attitude and behaviour the more it will continue.

      While the extreme right attitudes and the community culture in gangs mirror each other in the survival of the fittest approach this will continue.

      https://www.forbes.com/sites/remyblumenfeld/2020/03/21/how-a-15000-year-old-human-bone-could-help-you-through-the–coronavirus/?sh=19b3c7d137e9

      Years ago, the anthropologist Margaret Mead was asked by a student what she considered to be the first sign of civilization in a culture. The student expected Mead to talk about clay pots, tools for hunting, grinding-stones, or religious artifacts.

      But no. Mead said that the first evidence of civilization was a 15,000 years old fractured femur found in an archaeological site. A femur is the longest bone in the body, linking hip to knee. In societies without the benefits of modern medicine, it takes about six weeks of rest for a fractured femur to heal. This particular bone had been broken and had healed.

      Mead explained that in the animal kingdom, if you break your leg, you die. You cannot run from danger, you cannot drink or hunt for food. Wounded in this way, you are meat for your predators. No creature survives a broken leg long enough for the bone to heal. You are eaten first.

      A broken femur that has healed is evidence that another person has taken time to stay with the fallen, has bound up the wound, has carried the person to safety and has tended them through recovery. A healed femur indicates that someone has helped a fellow human, rather than abandoning them to save their own life.

    • Peter 9.4

      No doubt Israel Adesanya and his gym mates are heroes of many of the inmates in the Oranga Tamariki residence. I wonder if the aim of the fighting in this instance was entertainment, (in MMA/UFC smashing someone's head in is great entertainment) or to see someone 'get a hiding.'

      Could the staff instead have taken the young people out for a game of league with whooping and hollering for big hits, the bigger the smashes the louder the acclamation?

      Getting suitable staff must be very difficult.

  10. Mac1 10

    Wrote this sonnet two years ago in response to the Mead article.

    Dry Bones

    A fractured femur is the clue. Broken

    Bones do not heal in nature, where predators

    Will sóon kíll animals hurt or lame.

    Healed bones instead are a blesséd relic,

    A sign our cave ancestors were awoken

    To know civil folk cared for each other,

    Bound wounds, found foods, tended without blame

    Those who could not run to hunt, too sick

    To forage in the forest. Compassion

    Is no new millennial phenomenon

    But part of our species' habituation.

    Loving concern, never to be despised,

    Preconditions us to being civilised.

    Care is core to our continuation.

    • joe90 10.1

      Healed bones instead are a blesséd relic,

      A sign our cave ancestors were awoken

      To know civil folk cared for each other,

      Meet Nandy.

      All of Shanidar 1’s injuries show signs of healing, so none of them resulted in his death. In fact, scientists estimate he lived until 35–45 years of age. He would have been considered old to another Neandertal, and he would probably not have been able to survive without the care of his social group.

      https://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence/human-fossils/fossils/shanidar-1

      • Mac1 10.1.1

        The poem was written in response to Meads' findings but in late 2019 into early 2020 as some descended into various dark tunnels during Covid this was a great revelation hence the references to being woke, to compassion, to caring.

        This sits so well with post #8 about the 10 symptoms of the woke virus.

        Humanity is at a choosing point.

  11. Stephen D 11

    Law and order are going to be a major policy plank for the Nats etc. So I went looking for answers to the issue society is having with youth crime. Looking at the range of articles I found on Google Scholar, we are not alone.

    https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12103-020-09549-x

    ”To summarize these changes and overall impact of COVID-19 in the words of an essential employee from the Northeast United States [U.S.], “It’s f***ing chaos” (M.B., personal communications, May 13, 2020).”

    Despite all the platitudes coming from the likes of Mark Mitchell, there are no easy answers.

    ”COVID-19 as a Seminal Event for Ongoing Reform

    Community-based diversionary practices show to be more cost-effective and safer for youths’ health. We hope to see even greater implementation of evidence-based practices that account for youths’ risks and needs by responding accordingly with proper services and resources in the community. We also recommend that we learn from the lived experiences of juvenile justice-involved youths, staff, and other essential personnel. By directly asking their insights on an unprecedented situation and lessons learned for the future, we can better support our juvenile populations and essential employees.”

    Fat chance an intelligent debate will be had with the vacuous Luxon, and Mitchell banging the Laura Norder drum.

  12. Anker 13

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/waikato/132482735/national-backs-third-medical-school-in-waikato

    so something to vote National for. I heard Reti say about a year ago, he had costed a new medical school

    • Patricia Bremner 13.1

      Pity he did not cost repairing the plumbing in the Whangarei Hospital Anker. No votes in that for him?

    • tWiggle 13.2

      Not Reti, it was Nats 2017 election policy, and I don't think he was around then. It would be set up at Waikato, according to RNZ item.

  13. Corey 14

    I think the Kiri Allen situation is a massive beat up… But the PM is making a massive mistake by not seeing her face to face before he goes to Europe.

    All he's going to get in Europe are questions about her and whatever dirt nationals got on some other minister mp.

    It's weird af that he's not seeing her before he goes and means the issue is going to fester and be the top story every day for two weeks till he sees her when he gets back.

    He should have demanded to see her this week and then expressed confidence or fired her not leave it up in the air or make excuse like "she needs time with her family" so do most workers, but they can't get a day off.

    He should see her, express confidence or fire her and then to change the narrative, announce an election policy, then fly out to Europe.

    Labour has been horrendously bad at coms for two years now.

    Spray and walk away, change the narrative

    Announcing a tax package just before he goes wouldn't be a bad idea.

    People are getting quite sick and tired of hearing policies from every other party, and whenever a party comes up with a new idea, labour shrugs and craps all over the idea, without telling us their ideas.

    It makes labour look like National in 2017. Whenever any idea was thrown out national would say no and pretend there's no problem and that we should change nothing.

    • Muttonbird 14.1

      I think the Kiri Allen situation is a massive beat up… But the PM is making a massive mistake by not seeing her face to face before he goes to Europe.

      She's on holiday, mate.

      • aj 14.1.1

        Just imagine the slant the media would put on a special meeting between the two. It's a no win situation.

    • pat 14.2

      Agree Hipkins should deal with this..and by not doing so opens himself up to incessant (irrelevant) questioning for the next period.

      Can only assume that for whatever reason they (Labour) believe this is the best way of dealing with it….as you note, their form to date dosnt inspire confidence.

      • Muttonbird 14.2.1

        What do you crackpots not understand about a person being on holiday?

        • pat 14.2.1.1

          Enjoy your holiday…and add to the chance you lose the position that enables the holiday

          • Muttonbird 14.2.1.1.1

            Honestly, this is typical right wing thought. A person’s duty is to authority rather than their own children.

            Rot in hell.

            • pat 14.2.1.1.1.1

              Think you may be the 'rights' greatest asset

              • Muttonbird

                Please don't pretend you are of the socially conscious left. None of your comments on this forum back that up.

  14. RP Mcmurphy 15

    who watched the rude and hectoring interrogation by manbum ryuan bridges of Kelvin Davis on the telly this morning. I was disgusted by his behaviour and if this is so called civil society then I will go he.

    • Alan 15.1

      I thought you would be more disgusted by the video showing staff encouraging the people in their care to beat the shit out of each other.

      • Muttonbird 15.1.1

        I know you are a triggered gammon, but would you please explain what it is you are excised about this particular time?

  15. rod 16

    Ryan Bridges is just another National Party Poodle always was, always will be.

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