An Australian Green Party MP warns the Green Party here, to be very careful about going into coalition with Labour:
The Green Party will have to fight to hold on to its identity if it enters into a coalition with Labour at next year’s election, an Australian Greens politician says.
Speaking at the Green Party conference in Christchurch, Victorian senator Richard Di Natale said Greens would have to be very clear about what policies and principles they would not compromise on.
The exact quote from the above article actually reads: Speaking at the Green Party conference in Christchurch, Victorian senator Richard Di Natale said Greens would have to be very clear about what policies and principles they would not compromise on.
As far as I can see the Greens are a party with the strongest sense of identity (what they stand for) and they appear the least likely to compromise anything. I conclude voting for the Greens won’t be wasted.
The New Zealand Green Party leadership have been very clear on what policies and principles they would compromise on.
All of them.
There are, “no bottom lines for post-election negotiations”.
Norman/Turia
Sigh, telling lies again Jenny. Please don’t use quotation when you are not quoting someone. There is other html to be used to get you point across.
I’ve googled this There are, “no bottom lines for post-election negotiations”., and got only one hit that comes close and no, it’s not a quote of Norman or Turei about being willing to compromise anything. It’s a slight paraphrase of a quote from the the Dom Post reporting on Norman talking about the GP relationship with Labour (it’s an interesting article).
Here’s part of what he said –
the Opposition parties will announce the results of their manufacturing inquiry later this month.
“They’ve got their schtick, we’ve got ours,” Dr Norman says. He has no bottom lines for post-election negotiations.
“If you don’t have 51 per cent of the votes in Parliament, then you’ve got to talk to people … Labour and the Greens are trying to develop a relationship where we can talk even when we disagree … where we find a compromise will depend on the relative strengths of either party.”
In October, he refused to rule in or out becoming finance minister in any future coalition, but did say the party would be looking for key portfolios: “Economics and finance portfolios, but other social and environmental portfolios.”
He still won’t confirm what politicos all suspect – that he wants charge of the Treasury.
“We will sort all that in negotiations after. Obviously we want to have a significant influence on the government and that means having important ministries … Cabinet seats should be roughly proportional to the relationship between the different parties involved in it.”
So, He has no bottom lines for post-election negotiations. when taken in context, sounds to me like he’s not making demands of the Labour party and much will depend on how many seats they get, but also on how well the two parties are getting along. eg it’s obvious he wants Finance, but he knows that it’s not a given. The major bit that Jenny is missing (or intentionally leaving out) is that the GP value relationship and recognise that coalition is as much about that as it is about getting what one wants, and that they have skills in negotiating and relationship building that should improve the left’s chances of forming a stable and coherent govt (assuming Labour can manage that from their side).
There is plenty of historical examples of minor parties being rooted after going into Coalition with a ‘big brother’. If the Green’s wish to keep their support and their conscience I suggest they opt for the Gingrich standard
“…to be open to working with everyone, that we will cooperate with anyone, and we will compromise with no one”
It’s a strategy of obstruction though. I really don’t think it will work under MMP.
What Gingrich was saying was that he would not co-operate with a Dem president unless the Dem president was doing what the GOP demanded. In a coalition govt, how will that possibly work?
In practice I’d advise the Greens, that it’s better for their long term survival to aspire to lead a government than be the tail of a rather timid dog.
However, I guess my advice was probably more relevent to the negotiations after an election, rather than the day to day running of a government. They need to avoid being seen as simply a wing of the Labour party and be able to publicly disagree with Labour whislt in government. In negotiating they need stand firm to their principles and empower their party membership to have a final say on any agrements. And, as much as it may hurt, be prepared to go into opposition against a Labour-NZ first government in 2014.
Nick Clegg, Joshka Fischer, Jim Anderton, Peter Sharples. Pragamatists of the world hall of shame. Welcomes new prospective entrants, Russel Norman and Metiria Turei
Of course Weka.
And you will apologise when? When the Greens sign up to be part of an administration that supports, Fracking, Deep Sea Oil Drilling and the leveling of the Denniston Plateau for its coal? Maybe? Possibly? I doubt it. Then you will argue that such a monumental sell out was necessary in the interests of pragmatism.
All the evidence is that the Green Party leadership are quite open to the idea of dumping principled opposition to climate change for cabinet positions. Your and others continued cover for this reality will only make it more likely that they will follow through.
Still pissing into the tent from the outside I see.
Colonial Viper
I couldn’t count the number of times I have heard this crudity expressed to me by Labour Party supporters and politicians, particularly during the Rogenomic years. But also many times after. As they tell it. The full quote reads; “It is better to be in the tent pissing out, than outside the tent pissing in.” I always ask those politicians who have dared to express this crudity to me. (Safe and warm inside their tent). “Yes, But who are you pissing on?”
It doesn’t surprise me CV, that you are recommending this cynical viewpoint to the Greens.
It also doesn’t surprise me that weka, (see his following comment), thinks you are being witty, and not politically crude.
Your offence at metaphorical crude language your best defence now?
The Green membership have a huge control over party policy. Why aren’t you in there persuading them with your strong views? Why are you outside pissing in trying to lecture to their caucus?
Why are you happy to complain but not happy to take up the role and responsibility of being a Green Party member speaking up at their Conference?
There is no comparison between the Labour Party in the 80s and the GP now. CV has explained why several times now. It actually says alot about you that you would draw that comparison and not understand the very real structural and procedural reasons for why it is false (have you not been paying any attention to the problems the Labour party has with democracy?).
Did you notice that CV didn’t say anything about being on the inside pissing out? Why would you assume that he was suggesting that?
I didn’t find his comment witty, I found it astute. Please don’t put words in my mouth or motives in my comments that aren’t there (god knows how you could read anything about my attitude or response from a one word comment anyway).
Did you notice that CV didn’t say anything about being on the inside pissing out? Why would you assume that he was suggesting that?
weka
Weka have you never heard this before? It is the unspoken first half of this often repeated in house, Labour Party saying.
Which goes in full; “It is better to be in the tent pissing out, than outside the tent pissing in”.
CV knows, that I know, this familiar Labour Party saying. He was just using short hand.
Weka this obviously unfamiliar to you, popular Labour Party in-house crudity, has been used over the decades numerous times, to excuse all sorts of political accommodations and compromises and sell outs.
P.S. I hope this clarification helps you.
No, no need to thank me. It is all part of the service.
Nevertheless Jenny, that fact that you can’t see the difference between the 80s Labour Party and the Green Party in this respect tells us much. I think it is probably part of the problem. You are simply incapable of acknowledging the skills the GP bring to the table that no-one else has.
Weka, You are trying to say I made a comparison, I never made.
I was criticising CV for expressing an old Rogernomics era mantra. This is nothing near comparing the Green Party to the ’80s Labour Party, and to say so is dishonest.
Your offence at metaphorical crude language your best defence now?
Colonial Viper
No. But the crude opportunist idea that lies behind this popular in-house Labour Party mantra. This very same phrase was used as an excuse by those opposed to Roger Douglas who kept their silence, afraid of losing their positions in the tent.
Helen Clark put it another way “I was not prepared to die in a ditch”.
Crude words for a crude political message.
Principle can be sacrificed for narrow self interest.
In talking of dying in a ditch, Clark was only talking metaphorically, of course. But I think her words and the cowardly and opportunist ideas behind them would ring hollow to those in previous generations who had been prepared to die in ditches for principle. Literally.
And you will apologise when? When the Greens sign up to be part of an administration that supports, Fracking, Deep Sea Oil Drilling and the leveling of the Denniston Plateau for its coal? Maybe? Possibly? I doubt it. Then you will argue that such a monumental sell out was necessary in the interests of pragmatism.
If the GP compromise their policy positions on those things, then I will probably resign my membership. However, I think what you are meaning is simply whether they go into coalition with a party that has different policy positions on those things (i.e. Labour). We already know that is what they intend.
What we don’t know is how they will manage their integrity in such a situation. I’ve said before that I think it is possible that the GP will eventually compromise too far. That is the nature of politics – those on the edge, as their ideas becomes popular and as they influence the mainstream thus become corrupted. The difference between you and I is that I just don’t see how that is anything other than inevitable. But it’s also a matter of timing – maybe they will do some good in the meantime. Maybe we will get really luck and NZ will wake the fuck up while the GP is in power and support them to do the right things.
I also think that the GP are doing the country a service. I don’t envy them and all respect to people who choose to go into that system with their eyes open. If they sit on the outside with their integrity intact they will simply watch as Labour/Nact destroy the country. You see black and white, I see shades of grey – they’ve made compromises so far that I’m reasonable comfortable with. I’m not sure where my limit is. I know that I will choose Labour/GP over NACT. That doesn’t exclude being critical of the GP if they compromise too far.
The other difference between you and I is that I don’t see how this will play out. I think the GP has the potential to change how MMP coalition govts are formed and work, and that alone is a good enough reason IMO for them to go with Labour. But I’m also pragmatic enough to know that I could be sorely disappointed. You on the other hand claim to see the future, the One and Only Future, are willing to damn the GP before they even have a chance at doing something good, and use every opportunity to bad mouth them. I don’t understand how that would work strategically. Are you trying to convince people to not vote for the GP?
I’m also curious who you will be giving your party vote to. Care to share that with us?
Is it is true? Have the Green Party membership voted for their party to become part of an administration that approves Deep Sea Oil Drilling, Fracking, Denniston, Coal Mining and BAU?
Was this issue visited during their conference?
Have the Green Party membership voted a blank cheque for their leadership to dispense with all “bottom lines” in coalition talks to get cabinet positions?
I don’t understand how that would work strategically……
…..I’m also curious who you will be giving your party vote to. Care to share that with us?
weka
I will attempt to answer both your questions with one answer.
I will give my party vote to the Greens if they announce that their strategy will be to denounce and fight climate change at every opportunity.*
I will give my party vote to the Green Party if they announce that they will refuse to go into a coalition that will hog tie them to Business As Usual and increasing CO2 emmissions.
I will give my party vote to the Green Party if they return to the strategy pursued by Rod Donald, and Hone Harawira. To actively and openly campaign and put pressure on all the parties in parliament for what they want to achieve. The Green Party have shown that such a strategy can be very effective, even against tories. Rod Donald with his MMP campaign, effectively forced MMP on a right wing Bolger administration.
How more effective would such a campaign be if it was directed against a Labour administration, hell bent on Deep Sea Mining, fracking etc?
If you asked me, I would say, “Overwhelming”.
weka you tell me that the Green Party should give this away, for back room horse trading in principles for minor concessions?
Maybe, just as the Maori Party got Whanau Ora and the Alliance got Kiwi Bank. By agreeing to go into government with Labour, the Green Party might get tossed public health nurses in schools, and tighter legislation protecting water ways. But that will be it. And the cost will be high. Going from past examples it could mean the end of the Green Party as an independent political force in parliament. Which in my opinion will be a tragedy.
*(I will probably give my party vote to the Greens anyway, even though I think their current strategy will be a disaster. For two reasons. One, I still think that the Green Party remain one of the most left wing parties in parliament. And two, the Mana Party say that they will not campaigning for the party vote this time around. And instead will concentrate all their efforts on the Maori electoral seats. A political strategy I disagree with, because I think it will be a political dead end. Trapping Mana in silo politics and robbing them of general appeal.)
Right, so you’re going to party vote Green irrespective of what they do. Kind of like me.
The main difference between us that I can see is that you claim the GP has already made its decisions to compromise in ways that will spell doom and gloom. I just don’t see the evidence for that. It’s true they might, but they might actually surprise us too. So strategically, I think giving them support to do teh right thing is better than giving them shit and undermining them for something you personally suspect they might do but don’t really know and have no evidence for.
You still haven’t explained how your strategy of publicaly undermining the GP works towards your aims.
Go join the GP Jenny, get involved, go to meetings or join the online discussions they have and have some influence on what they do.
I think we can tell what influence the Green Party members have from their conference. The only Green Party voices we were allowed to hear were of Turei and Norman.
Also because of the secrecy surrounding this conference. I also have not heard, (yet) if the members actually did get to discuss and vote on whether the leadership should go into the coalition talks with Labour with “No bottom lines for post-election negotiations”.
Which going on the evidence, we all must agree by now, is the Green Party officially stated position.
There are, “no bottom lines for post-election negotiations”.
If the GP compromise their policy positions on those things, then I will probably resign my membership. However, I think what you are meaning is simply whether they go into coalition with a party that has different policy positions on those things (i.e. Labour). We already know that is what they intend.
weka
The Labour Party don’t just have different policy positions “on those things”, (Mining Denniston Deep Sea Oil Drilling, Fracking) as you politely put it, weka. They fully intend to go ahead with these things.
And by going into government with them, the Green Party agrees to let them do so unopposed. Are you suggesting that they are not?
weka, are you saying that the Greens will launch a campaign against government policies when they are part of that government and bound by collective cabinet responsibility?
So would you be happy if the GP went into govt and as part of that won an agreement from Labour to not mine Denniston?
Can one of the Labour people here tell us if that would be a hard thing for Labour to give up?
“And by going into government with them, the Green Party agrees to let them do so unopposed. Are you suggesting that they are not?”
What makes you think that the GP being outside of govt will make a blind bit of difference to Denniston, deep oil etc (as opposed to being inside)? Haven’t you been telling us for months now that the GP are no longer prioritising those things? You can’t have it both ways Jenny.
btw most of the action that’s passed my view about deep sea oil drilling has come from NGOs.
“weka, are you saying that the Greens will launch a campaign against government policies when they are part of that government and bound by collective cabinet responsibility?”
No, I’m saying that I don’t know how they will manage that. And neither do you.
So would you be happy if the GP went into govt and as part of that won an agreement from Labour to not mine Denniston?
weka
Weka, YES. Yes, I would. This would be a major concession from Labour. And major blow to the fossil fuel industry. Stopping Denniston would be a step forward in the war against climate change in this country. I would be overjoyed. I would be stunned if the Greens could win such a concession from the Labour Party.
Can one of the Labour people here tell us if that would be a hard thing for Labour to give up?
weka
Yes, come on Labour Party people, tell us what you think.
How about you Colonial Viper? How about you R0B? Or maybe lprent? Would any of you like to have a go at answering weka’s question. Maybe even EDDIE might like to share her opinion with us?
(Many environmental NGOs and climate change activists regard the proposed Denniston Coal Mine to be the equivalent of New Zealand’s XL pipeline. According to these activists, just as stopping the XL pipeline would show that Obama is serious about climate change. Stopping the Denniston Open Cast Export Coal Mine would be a major symbolic sign to the world that New Zealanders take climate change seriously. For these people, stopping this coal mine would be a huge feather in the Green Party’s cap.)
What makes you think that the GP being outside of govt will make a blind bit of difference to Denniston, deep oil etc (as opposed to being inside)?
weka
I am informed by the success of Mana Party’s brilliant “Feed the Kids” campaign. I am informed by the amazing Green Party led campaign against partial asset sales.
But most of all I am informed by the 1984 Opposition Labour Party’s campaign against Nuclear Ship Visits. Labour despite being the minority Opposition party in an FPP environment. Through a powerful anti-nuclear Campaign waged both inside and outside of parliament, the Labour Party swayed two, yes TWO National government Ministers to cross the floor to vote to make New Zealand nuclear free. In an MMP environment, such a strategy would be even easier succeed. (for a number of reasons).
Weka as for the second part of this question, “(as opposed to being inside)?”
Inside the government, the Green MPs will be prevented by collective responsibility from waging a campaign or even putting up bills that oppose government policy.
In cabinet, even if the Greens get the proportional amount of cabinet ministers they seek, they will still be outvoted every single time. Yet will be shackled by the rules of cabinet responsibility to support policies that they fundamentally don’t agree with, (to the dismay of their supporters).
Haven’t you been telling us for months now that the GP are no longer prioritising those things? You can’t have it both ways Jenny.
weka
weka I don’t know what you mean about “both ways”. But Yes. I have been pointing out that the Green Party are not even giving equal billing to climate change, (let alone prioritising it). Instead as I have pointed out the Green Party have been actively playing down Climate Change.
But why are they doing this?
One of the main reasons, is that the Greens, positioning themselves to go into coalition with Labour, know that Labour don’t want climate change raised. And that demanding action over climate change issues will be a major impediment to a coalition agreement.
(Hence the need for a “no bottom lines” negotiating policy)
By foregoing coalition, the Greens will be freed up to talk about climate change openly again.
btw most of the action that’s passed my view about deep sea oil drilling has come from NGOs.
weka
Indeed. And doesn’t that tell you something?
“weka, are you saying that the Greens will launch a campaign against government policies when they are part of that government and bound by collective cabinet responsibility?”
Jenny
No, I’m saying that I don’t know how they will manage that. And neither do you.
weka
But I do know.
And, if you admit it to yourself, so do you. In a formal coalition with Labour the Green Party will be bound to obey the rules of collective cabinet responsibility. That is what a coalition agreement means. Beyond the concessions wrung out of Labour during the coalition talks, that is what you are stuck with. We have been informed that there are no bottom lines. If no bottom lines are agreed to, what possibly could a minority of Green Party Cabinet Ministers achieve against the wishes of a cabinet dominated by Labour Ministers? The answer is nothing.
Are there any bills that have been passed by this current government which member parties of the coalition opposed?
Collective resposibility is an issue, but it is subservient to coaltion agreements under MMP, I think you’ll find.
I hestitate to wade into this, because like others I find your position to be at best naive.
If you don’t like the idea of the green party being in government to your taste, then don’t vote for them. It’s as simple as that. I’m pretty sure that all prties in NZ seek to be part of government. There are other models available, but no party is following those models. If that’s a deal breaker for you, then that’s your decision.
People really can disagree with yuo about strategy. they really can! It doesn’t make then dishonest, or false or stupid, or anything else.
Again, f you don’t like the Greens, or trust themt o be what you want them to be, then don’t vote for them. Please. Find something to support that wont disappoint you.
Collective resposibility is an issue, but it is subservient to coaltion agreements under MMP, I think you’ll find.
Pascal’s bookie
Of course collective responsibility is subservient to coalition agreements.
This is why the Green Party announced position that there will be no bottom lines in negotiating a coalition agreement is so alarming.
If the Green Party don’t get agreement to stop Deep Sea Oil Drilling, or Fracking, or Denniston, in the coalition negotiations and still decide to proceed. Then they will be locked into supporting these policies in government. This will lead to clash with many of their supporters. Maybe even leading to bitter clashes inside their caucus between ministers in cabinet and ministers not in cabinet.
This has all happened before, here, and overseas. And should be no surprise to those who follow politics.
Fatty, you can see what Norman said in the quote and link I gave above. I was just pointing out that Jenny was selectively quoting out of context to deliberately skew what the GP are doing, as part of her ongoing agenda to discredit them going into govt.
Yeah, but I think the quote “no bottom lines for post-election negotiations” was actually said by Turei in the interview I linked (or close to that).
I can’t be sure as I can’t get it to play.
I’ve said before that I think it is possible that the GP will eventually compromise too far. That is the nature of politics – those on the edge, as their ideas becomes popular and as they influence the mainstream thus become corrupted. The difference between you and I is that I just don’t see how that is anything other than inevitable.
weka
You are right, the difference between you and me, is that where you see this process of corruption as inevitable. I don’t.
I do not agree, with you weka, that as the Green Party become more able to influence the mainstream, that they will “thus become corrupted”. And as you also say; “I just don’t see how that is anything other than inevitable.”
I don’t see this process of corruption as inevitable at all.
I think that I have put up a credible alternative strategy to avoid that time honoured end trajectory. But not only that, I think that it is a strategy more in line with the Green Party founders, Rod Donald and Jeanette Fitzsimmons strategic approach.
weka you support a strategic approach which you say will inevitably lead to corruption?
And you accuse me of discrediting the Green Party?
You are obviously not a Green Party member, or supporter at all.
I don’t know why I bother talking with you.
I suppose you will try and accuse me of quoting you out of context again.
I was just pointing out that Jenny was selectively quoting out of context to deliberately skew what the GP are doing, as part of her ongoing agenda to discredit them going into govt.
Yes, in that interview, Turei says that “we don’t do bottom lines anymore, that is so 2005.”
But the whole focus by Turei throughout the interview is on negotiation, working to support other parties on points they agree with, and making clear when they disagree with other parties. She gave as an example that they have worked with the (always difficult) Winston Peters on the anti-asset sales petition, and the manufacturing inquiry. However, the main area where they disagree with Peters is on his racism and they wouldn’t support his position on immigration.
Also, in the interview, Turei refuses to commit to too much on the policies they will be promoting closer to the election. She gives three main areas that they consider important, ummm…. one on poverty, and maybe affordable housing, and the environment.
Basically, she gave the impression that the Greens have a new confidence that they are in a stronger political position than ever before, and that they will have the numbers and ability to promote some of their key policies/issues.
Elsewhere I have seen the Greens said at last weekend’s conference that they need to take steps to ensure they maintain independence in any progressive government. So, they are aware of the difficult tightrope they need to walk in such a government. I will wait for further information as to how this will play out before I criticise. It is a tricky position for any medium sized party to negotiate.
In our business we come across people all the time, usually already wealthy, who do in fact do exactly this. Working for tax-free capital gain is what pretty much everyone does. It is only the hapless wage earner or salary earner who get consistently slapped with tax bills.
This is the biggest rort in our country. It is the biggest rip-off. Dole bludgers don’t even register on the scale required to measure this, THE GREAT RIP OFF.
Who does it? Pretty much all farmers do it. Pretty much all property investors do it. Many many small business owners do it. Most big businesses do it.
They all earn an income from their business sure, but either the main aim or a substantial part of their moeny-earning aim is the tax free money earned from an increase the the capital value of their business / property. The OECD even says this here … ” much of the income at top levels was in the form of capital gains, the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development said.”
What exactly will the Greens be gaining from cabinet positions?
Even if Russel Norman gets the number of cabinet posts, based on the Green party proportionality in the new government. (something Labour is resisting). Dr Norman and his colleagues will still be outvoted on every single cabinet decision, yet will be locked into supporting them, through “collective cabinet responsibility”?
Not only that, but the rest of the Green caucus, subject to their party whip will be prevented from putting up any bills that would oppose government policy. Effectively hand cuffing themselves.
The choice for the Greens is clear, become part of the solution, or part of the problem.
If any of what you say were to become the reality, your negativity would have us saddled permanently with a National Government,
The only other possible alternative is that the Green Party support a minority Labour Government on confidence and supply whilst trying to shoehorn Green Party policy onto a Labour Government agenda,
i know which of those alternatives i prefer, there are in Labour still a number of solidly left leaning MP’s who in a contest in Cabinet may well be swayed by the Green Party position,
What is your motivation vis a vis such attacks upon the Green Party ???, failed candidate???, National Party voter???, right wing of the Labour Party???…
I agree with your assessment that there are a still a number of solidly left leaning MP’s.
The Green Party would have much more chance of success in lobbying these MPs to supporting Green Party legislation banning Deep Sea Oil Drilling for instance, if they were not in government, where bound by collective cabinet responsibility they would not be even able to put up any legislation opposing government policy.
Despite all the science screaming against it, Labour Party policy in government will be: support Deep Sea Oil Drilling, Increase Coal Mining, Allow Fracking (albeit with a little more regulation) Continue increasing Green House Gas Emissions. Are the Greens prepared to go along with all this, which they will have to, to achieve cabinet positions?
There are two strategies. One is pragmatic, the other is principled.
We must ask ourselves which strategy has proved more effective?
With their “Feed the Kids” campaign and only one MP, Mana has forced National to make concessions around child poverty.
Rod Donald with hardly any MPs and no money. Led and organised one of the greatest political campaigns in this country’s history to achieve MMP against powerful well funded establishment opposition.
This is called leadership. It doesn’t matter how big your party is, or how many MPs you have. Those who give the lead are the leaders.
What about those parties that went into coalition with bigger parties? Yes they got rewarded with trinkets, Whanau Ora for the Maori Party, and Kiwi Bank for the Alliance. But in return for keeping their cabinet positions, they got dragged behind the government’s chariot, (in the case of the Alliance, quite literally).
In my opinion the Greens would have their hands free to achieve more for the climate and the environment if they stayed out of coalition giving Labour confidence and supply but reserving the right to lobby the left leaning Labour MPs over the issues they care about.
“In my opinion the Greens would have their hands free to achieve more for the climate and the environment if they stayed out of coalition giving Labour confidence and supply but reserving the right to lobby the left leaning Labour MPs over the issues they care about.”
I kind of get what you are saying Jenny, but I don’t agree with your strategy. Better that the GP goes into coalition because that is what it has been working hard for all these years and so that is what they are geared up to do (if they don’t get into govt, some of the people in the GP with skills and experience will move on, which means the GP has to use more of its time/energy/resources finding replacements). There are things they can do from within govt that they simply cannot from the outside. Look at previous Labour led govts and what the GP has been able to achieve and what they haven’t.
If the GP get into a coalition govt, it leaves space for others to step up and do the kind of advocacy/lobbying that you refer to. Whether that is a group in parliament or outside, it will be way easier to make gains with the GP part of the govt than lobbying Labour alone.
If the GP get into a coalition govt, it leaves space for others to step up and do the kind of advocacy/lobbying that you refer to.
weka
There are several failures in this rationalistion for the strategy you support.
First it is an admittance that the Greens are to abandon a provenly effective strategy, for arguably less effective negotiations by the executive at the top table. A top down approach that effectively side lines the membership and hands power to the executive. An approach fraught with pitfalls.
Secondly who are these others you want to step up to take over this role that you admit that the Greens are abandoning?
And if they did step up will you vote for them instead of the Greens?
First it is an admittance that the Greens are to abandon a provenly effective strategy,
No, it’s not. Please show me the concrete gains that the GP have made whilst outside government.
for arguably less effective negotiations by the executive at the top table.
Where’s the argument?
A top down approach that effectively side lines the membership and hands power to the executive.
Citation needed for the membership being sidelined and power being placed solely in the hands of the executive.
An approach fraught with pitfalls.
Risks acknowledged, but better brains than you or I assess the risks as being worth the gains.
Secondly who are these others you want to step up to take over this role that you admit that the Greens are abandoning?
If the GP are in govt and Mana are outside, I expect as Mana grows as a party and movement that they will step into being the main party on the left that holds that ‘lobbying’/holding govt to account position. Of course that’s not all the GP did/does. They also have significant effect on thought in NZ around environmental issues. I expect Mana to step into that place for social justice issues. In terms of the environment I would see in the short and medium term that environmental NGOs will have more prominence and ability to work with govt because the GP are there.
I think you really fail to see that the GP have the potential to change how things are done. They already work significantly differently within the party than any other large party, and their approaches to being in govt will be different than anything we have seen before from small parties (not hard given our examples have mainly been Dunne, Peters and the MP).
And if they did step up will you vote for them instead of the Greens?
I vote strategically not ideologically, so it would really depend on what was going on that year.
I think you really fail to see that the GP have the potential to change how things are done.
weka
It is because I believe that the Greens, do have the potential to change things. That I am distressed that they seem determined to follow a proven road to ruin.
They can’t say they haven’t been warned:
…..it was easy for minority parties to be diluted or belittled when part of government.
Maintaining your identity when there is a perception that you are part of the government is a huge challenge.
“You are often lumbered with the mistakes of the majority partner and on those things were achievements were made it can sometimes be difficult to have your role recognised.”
Dr Di Natale
They already work significantly differently within the party than any other large party, and their approaches to being in govt will be different than anything we have seen before from small parties (not hard given our examples have mainly been Dunne, Peters and the MP).
weka
Talk about hubris.
weka you should also never forget the disaster that was the Alliance.
You assert that, “….their approaches to being in govt will be different than anything we have seen before”. I think you will be right, but not in the way you imagine.
weka you may have confidence in the “superiour brains” of the Green Party leaders to
shift the majority of Labour cabinet ministers. Their brains may be big, but their egos are bigger. Because no matter how superior their brains, the Green Party MPs will still be the minority in cabinet. And when their clever arguments fail to shift the majority of Labour cabinet ministers, they will be bound by cabinet responsibility into supporting whatever Labour decides.
“It is because I believe that the Greens, do have the potential to change things. That I am distressed that they seem determined to follow a proven road to ruin.”
Are you being deliberately obtuse? I was talking about how parties form coalition. How can the GP makes changes to that process from the outside?
“weka you should also never forget the disaster that was the Alliance.”
Do I really need to spell out the differences between the Alliance and the GP? Seriously?
If you are right – that any ‘minority’ party is doomed to fail simply by being a minority party (irrespective of their skills) – then nothing will change. We will remain stuck in the neoliberal hell that is NACT/Labour swapping out every couple of terms. How on earth you see the GP influencing that from the outside is beyond me. And in the meantime Rome burns.
If you are right – that any ‘minority’ party is doomed to fail simply by being a minority party.
weka
weka I have never said that. Nowhere near it. That is just your deliberate spin on what I have been saying.
The closest I have got to saying that. Is that the Green Party, (though it is not definite) are likely to fail, and fail spectacularly, if they go into coalition with Labour without securing any major concessions. (That is beyond minor concessions sought by the Greens over cleaner waterways and public health nurses in schools. Things Labour would probably agree to anyway, and would have no problem over).
Frustrated and tired with a lack of support for dyslexia, the Johnstone family are leaving New Zealand for the United States next month.
Just months before Jeni Johnstone moved from California to New Zealand in 2006, with Cantabrian husband James, their son Ian was diagnosed with dyslexia.
“We heard such good things about the New Zealand education system and we thought we were both intelligent and engaged enough to support Ian,” Johnstone said.
But it was not until 2007, a year after they arrived, that the Government formally recognised dyslexia as a learning disability and began funding programmes including reading assistance and resource teachers.
“But it [the programme] did not help Ian, it is not phonetic and kids with dyslexia need to be explicitly taught chronological methods,” Johnstone said.
Since I was educated for several years in Australia I can understand this. New Zealand has always had poor support for people with dyslexia and other learning disabilities. It forces families with disabled children (who have the means) to leave the country to support their children’s education.
Comment of the year on a blog has to go to Danyl McLaughlan’s comment at the sewer yesterday.
If you missed it Farrar did a typical dog whistle post hinting that a blogger, gasp, a blogger may have been on the parliamentary payroll. The hypocrisy obviously escaped him.
The swarm, after fed a hunk of red meat, started to throw around names and Danyl’s name was one of them.
His response needs to go down in the records of the blogosphere.
He replied:
1. It’s not me.
2. You witless imbeciles
3. I’m always (mildly) entertained by the sheep-like gullibility of the Kiwiblog comments hive-mind. You KNOW that everything the biased mainstream media prints is a lie, but if the government’s pollster publishes a vague, unsourced rumour on his blog you all start bleating in synchronised outrage.
4. Idiots.
5. But let’s assume it is true. There are only two parties so desperate they’d PAY a blogger. DPF wouldn’t betray ACT, so that leaves Mana. Hmmmm. Two candidates there.
6. And don’t you clowns have jobs? Pete George: 17,696 comments. What the hell is wrong with you?
7. Even if this person exists, their salary will only be a fraction of whatever DPF’s company earns from Parliamentary Services and other taxpayer-based revenues. You might want to think about THAT before you come on his blog and rant about the left sucking off the public teat.
8. Dicks.
The full majesty of the debate can be enjoyed at http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2013/06/a_question-10.html#comment-1152239
Lolz, that one has a certain way with words, i can’t quite muster the strength necessary to subject myself to the sewer for the full debate this morning…
You do realise that you are the same guy as those at Kiwiblog. The only diffence is you have less money, a propensity to wash less and a belief that others should provide you with hand outs.
Just between us, I wanted to make sure that you knew that I am not really a monkey. (in the style of Sir Ian McKellen from his Extras cameo) You see, monkeys can’t actually use a computer nor could they organise their thoughts on a particular subject to write them down and certainly not in English or any other human tounge for that matter.
What I have done is assume the name of a famous monkey for the purpose of visiting this blog, I am not, in fact, the real King Kong. It’s called a nom de plume and it works like this;
me, me, me, me, log on to the Standard, king kong, king kong, king kong, log off the Standard, me, me,me.
🙂 You do know that Kong, although a primate, was not a monkey ?
He was just a big ape who was kept isolated from the villagers, had a raft of personal issues, a very bad temper and a marked propensity for unnecessary destruction when cornered.
Well that post blew up in DPF’s face. Mind you, ever since he lost weight his authoritarian arrogance has been off the hook, sort of like the way Kerre Woodham went all middle class ferral after she lost the podge and staggered her way through a marathon. His posts are increasingly hubristic and more that slightly foam flecked. God only knows what will happen when he is the first kid in the Beehive with Google glasses. He’ll probably try and sack John Key and declare himself emperor Napoleon III.
David Farrar has delighted me by referring to me as a ‘prominent blogger‘
Here is the declaration I have here on The Daily Blog and here is the declaration I had on Tumeke.
I clearly point out that I am a Political consultant for left wing-organizations and go into my involvement in setting MANA up. Matthew Hooton charted that progress on forming MANA in the NBR and I even told David Farrar that MANA would launch on Backbenchers so this sudden howling of ethics is a tad twee.
For MANA I give my opinions on politics and send an invoice. I have also worked for Greenpeace when they occupied an oil factory at Marsden, I’ve spoken at numerous Labour Party functions and fundraisers. I’ve addressed the annual Union meeting and worked with Unions to produce The Union Report and fronted save TVNZ7.
Goes on to demolish the KB assumption that he has some hidden left wing agenda. Bomber’s politics and his involvement in media etc are all very clear.
Farrar’s post was just an attempt to divert attention from the Lusk debacle.
Was pretty odd that DPF was told not top speak at one of Lusk’s candidate school thingies lest people get the idea the schools were officially endorsed.
Why would party insiders of the like who would attend such a shindig assume that?
Te Hamua Nikora is not intimidated by shearers call to terrorise.
Ikaroa-Rawhiti Candidate Te Hamua Nikora is stunned by Labour’s plan to win the electorate. In a recent press release, their leader David Shearer said “We will organise, mobilise and terrorise our political opponents”.
Nikora said that to hear that message from Labour on a day like today when Tuhoe are settling with the Crown is in extremely poor taste. “Tuhoe haven’t forgotten that it was a Labour Government that raided their homes in Taneatua and Ruatoki in 2007. Tuhoe know that the call to raid their homes by our police came from Labour. It’s another sad legacy on the part of the Labour Party when it comes to Maori rights”.
“MANA will not be terrorising our opponents but will be connecting with the voters of Ikaroa-Rawhiti. This weekend alone our team knocked on the doors of 1000 voters and received an overwhelming positive response. Perhaps they are being turned-off by threats of terrorism by Labour?”
“I knew that running for Parliament would be a tough gig. But I never expected to be the target of terrorism attacks by a political opponent. Overseas they call that type of behaviour illegal. Yet in Aotearoa, Labour seems to think that terrorising the people of Tuhoe and their political opponents is ok. I know the voters of Ikaroa-Rawhiti don’t think so and I know they will deliver that message loud and clear in the voting booths on Saturday 29th June 2013”.
Shearers deliberate use of the word terrorise is a new low for him. He is the biggest liability there is to getting rid of the gnats. I spit on him for this attack.
The only people Shearer is terrorising are the rank and file members of the Labour Party and Labour MPs in marginal seats. Astoundingly bad choice of words to use in Tuhoe country.
Leaving aside the offensiveness, and sheer idiocy of his chosen words, can anyone imagine Shearer using them about fighting National? The two main ‘enemies’, he was talking about are the Green Party, and Te Mana. National, ACT and UF aren’t in the race. Seems the only thing that makes Shearer register a pulse is putting down the left.
Mallard would be worse, but at least he can structure a sentence, however the sentences tend to put one to sleep so no I can’t think of a anyone worse.
Yeah Mallard would be bad, but only in ways that Shearer is also bad e.g:
1. Says horrible offensive things
2. Afraid to embrace the Greens, who are Labour’s only chance of forming a govt.
He would have these definite advantages over Shearer though:
1. Doesn’t much like the Nats or John Key.
2. Can say so without people wondering if he did.
3. Has an interest in politics.
4. Doesn’t lick himself in public.
Mallard is foul and partially hopeless. Shearer is foul and totally hopeless, so I have to agree. Shearer is worse. Why the hell is he still there? He obviously doesn’t know how to win and seems to not even want to. If only the future employment of the front bench depended on him, I’d cheer him on, but we need even a slightly pink Labour firing to get the left in a position where anything can be attempted to roll back NAct legislation. I wish we didn’t. I wish we had a mass extra-parliamentary movement or a strong, fighting left party, but we don’t. Labour still holds a lot of our powder, but they’ve left it out in the rain.
I think we desperately need to get a pan-left movement going, and I will be very interested to see what will happen with the People’s Assembly in the UK. I am sure it can happen, I am just not sure how to get the ball rolling. My intuition is that it should begin on a convivial level, as that way it may have more chance of taking root, and leading to committed rather than wearily dutiful action.
Olywyn, I agree with you. I would like to see a pan-left group that encourages people to enrol for voting, gives people the information to make their own choices to vote for which ever of the left leaning parties suits them and exposes the lies and misinformation of the parties from the right. This type of group would be one for which I would be prepared to be a foot soldier.
It is the only way I can think of by which the left can regain some real influence. The People’s Assembly is to be launched in the UK on the 17th of June, and I will be interested to see how they organise themselves, and how transferable their moves are to our neck of the woods.
I think that enthusiasm and commitment would make up for the lack of funding to some degree at least, and I do not think you could even aim for wall-to-wall agreement. The point would be to get the left talking to each other and becoming capable of collective action, meaningful lobbying and so on. We are too dispersed, we lack a power base, and there must be a way of overcoming these problems. That they are problems shows in the fact that a few members of the Labour Party caucus can get together and decide to drive the party in whatever direction they see fit, with nothing strong enough coming from the left to give them pause.
Hi Olwyn, I appreciate your good will and you have quite accurately deduced a major problem that the left is not capable of mounting strong collective action and lobbying.
You are also spot on to talk about a “power base”. However, to my mind: quality of leadership, quantity of money and equivalent resources, labour strike power, capital strike power, voting power (electorally and within party organisations) and media/message distribution power are the only things which count on the playing field you are suggesting.
Everything else is a social, well-meaning and informative talk fest. The unpalatable truth is that the Left gave up most of its bases of power over the last 40 years. What good is a labour movement which cannot even organise a general strike.
But CV. When ordinary citizens pick up on something and run with it, then political parties- the orthodox SD left and their offshoots – as well as ‘traditional’ economic levers and any other ‘traditional’ power bases just don’t mean anything any more. They are insignificant.
Is that really true though? How many austerity budgets have massive riots and protests in Greece stopped? What are ordinary citizens going to do to counter the organisation resources networks followers and power of the establishment parties, especially if those parties have access to the levers of governmental power?
A citizenry rabble is no more an effective political force than a pile of timber is a house.
You’ve got to admit that this threat to terrorise Labour’s by-election adversaries is incentive for; the Greens, Maori, and Mana; to both organise and mobilise – so that’ll be two of his objectives achieved. But there is an election within 18 months, and coalition with some (if not all) of these three parties is Labour’s main chance to get their bums back on the seats of government. Unless of course, Shearer’s plan is to go for broke and coalesce with National; which would be the end of Labour.
A week may be a long time in politics, but memories last longer than that.
Yes, like the way the Titanic ran into an iceberg made a ‘clang’ sound. Why would you want to “terrorise” political parties like Greens and Te Mana and even the Maori Party whom you may be needing as coalition partners shortly?
I get the feeling Dave has lost all confidence and has no idea what to say or do.
In this situation, someone must have handed him a bit of paper and said read this, unfortunately some one must have handed him the wrong bit of paper.
Bet he’s kicking himself in the nads on a daily basis for giving up his cushy UN job for this politics bull shit.
Worse decision ever.
You’re assuming that he has some self-awareness. He might be baffled, I’ll grant, but whether he knows why he’s doing so poorly, I doubt very much. Most likely he thinks that, as it is with every politician’s justification, it’s everyone else’s fault. The poor ignorant “followers” just don’t appreciate him.
Still, in another six months, we’ll see the error of our ways. You see, it’s not his fault, it’s ours.
Excellent publicity and motivation for Mana, who strikingly now resemble the legendary voice of reason. All in all not bad for the Left in general – this is purely the MANGRL show, couldn’t have achieved better from a professional MANGR-management consultant. Serendipity Sue rides into the east.
John Minto has put a great article up about a visit he and some teachers and students made into the Urewera – and he also has talked about the patience and generosity of Tuhoe and put it all into perspective
It’s important to keep this all in perspective by recognizing that even with the Tuhoe settlement added, the TOTAL amount spent by the government on ALL treaty settlements so far is still less than the amount John Key’s cabinet spent bailing out the wealthy investors in South Canterbury Finance.
I see the Herald is getting its oar into the upcoming by-election. Concerning the Mana candidate, who had a brain tumour a few years back, the headline and opening paragraph goes, “Candidate Kept Some Cancer Cash: A Mana Party candidate who kept $12,000 that had been given for his cancer treatment says he was unable to give the money back.”
If you read the whole article and the story is that people raised money for his treatment. As it happened he was able to get the operation done for free through the health service. So he gave the money that was raised to charity, except for $12,000 dollars, which the donors urged him to keep to ease his recovery. However, the Herald has framed things so that the first impression is that he pocketed the money.
Yes I was absolutely disgusted by that headline. What’s more those responsible for organising the money raising confirmed they urged him to keep it to help him post-recovery. It stands to reason he probably couldn’t work while under treatment, so the money would have helped him pay outstanding bills. Who are these inept, ignorant buffoons who call themselves journalists and reporters?
Agreed. Henceforth Auckland’s big transport decisions will reflect what Central Government dictates, not what the representatives of Auckland’s ratepayers want.
Just another bit of local democratic control ebbing away …
Most of those affected are probably onto this, but I just went back over 5 years of returns with the tax department on the phone and have $1590 before interest in tax rebates due. You don’t have to pay those woohoo people – the tax dept will do it for free. Those of us on lower incomes haven’t had to fill in a return for many years, and many are likely to have been overpaying their tax.
I don’t recommend anyone even attempt to use the website though.
The helpful woman at the IRD said she would calculate interest and add it to the total. It’s not impossible to use.. Have you succeeded in navigating it Lanth? because it sure seemed imposssible to me. By design I’d say.
Lotta money. Unexpected.
Don’t know what sort of cut the woo-hoo people take.
Feeling pretty chuffed akshully:-)
A handful of noisy middle class “Chardonnay Environmentalists” convinced the Hamilton City Council to end fluoridation. Thousands of poor Hamilton children will now suffer, despite a scientific consensus and overwhelming majority of Hamiltonians supporting fluoridation. Shame.
Like when they thought giving thalidomide to pregnant women was a good idea (to use an extreme example). Or when they thought giving menopausal women hormones was a good idea until they realised that it led to an increase in breast cancer (to give a less extreme but more recent example). Or when they thought that screening for all cancers was a good idea until they realised that it’s only useful to screen for some cancers because the others give lots of false positives and lead to lots of unnecessary interventions. Seriously, if you think that science on its own protects people, you don’t know much about how often science gets it wrong.
“The evidence supporting water fluoridation comprensive and conclusive.”
[citation needed]
You seem to not be understanding that the issue isn’t about whether fluoridation works, it’s about the risks and side effects and whether it’s ethical to medicate people without their consent.
Further, your statemtent “The evidence supporting [insert medication of choice] comprensive and conclusive.” is exactly the kind of statement made from science until scientists discover that they are wrong including for the HRT recommendations that I referred to. The scientific method in its pure form is admirable. How science plays out in the real world is full of flaws and is why important decisions shouldn’t be left up to scientists alone.
Absolutely. The compulsory, non-optional, mass medication of people needs a waaaaay higher standard of evidence in terms of safety and effectiveness than any other ordinary situation.
Well we can expect the MoH to be promoting the orthodoxy.
The third link is useless because the full version is behind a pay wall.
The BMJ link is interesting.
Conclusions
Given the level of interest surrounding the issue of public water fluoridation, it is surprising to find that little high quality research has been undertaken. As such, this review should provide both researchers and commissioners of research with an overview of the methodological limitations of previous research.
The evidence of a reduction in caries should be considered together with the increased prevalence of dental fluorosis. No clear evidence of other potential negative effects was found. This evidence on positive and negative effects needs to be considered along with the ethical, environmental, ecological, financial, and legal issues that surround any decisions about water fluoridation. Any future research into the safety and efficacy of water fluoridation should be carried out with appropriate methodology to improve the quality of the existing evidence base.
What is already known on this topic
Dental caries cause morbidity and suffering and incur costs
Artificial water fluoridation has been used as a community intervention to reduce the prevalence of dental caries for decades in some communities, but its use remains controversial
What this study adds
A systematic review of water fluoridation reveals that the quality of the evidence is low
Overall, reductions in the incidence of caries were found, but they were smaller than previously reported
The prevalence of fluorosis (mottled teeth) is highly associated with the concentration of fluoride in drinking water
An association of water fluoride with other adverse effects was not found
A few observations. The review’s purpose was to look at efficacy, not risk. While some of the studies included were analysed for risk, it wasn’t the primary focus of the work.
The conclusion of no association of fluoride with adverse effects combined with the poor quality of the studies included (and perhaps the fact that the study was commissioned by the UK MoH) suggest that further investigation is warranted (and no evidence of association with adverse effects doesn’t necessarily equate to proof that there are no adverse effects).
Of the few risks found, they include neurological. That with the Harvard study suggests further investigation is warranted (which is what the Harvard team are suggesting).
Interesting. There could be many reasons for that though (and I’m not sure how useful IQ testing is for understanding humans). I’m assuming the research was done somewhere like the US rather than cross culturally? Got some links I can have a look at? (haven’t had much luck with google).
“I’d rather public policy be based on hard science than youtube videos, frankly.”
Overall, I believe we all would, but even youtube is useful at times, such as in that news broadcast when it plainly illustrated how dangerous the chemicals are.
It is a toxic industrial waste. It eats concrete tamati.
I have heard all the discussions over the years from both sides, yet I walk into a store and see fast growing acres of soda drinks and junkfoods that systematically destroy more teeth than any amount of this toxin could [arguably] hope to protect. I do not see the pro-flouridation people protesting any of it. A bullet proof vest is not necessary if you take away the bullets.
“I’d rather public policy be based on hard science than youtube videos, frankly.”
How about the Harvard School of Public Health then?
July 25, 2012 — For years health experts have been unable to agree on whether fluoride in the drinking water may be toxic to the developing human brain. Extremely high levels of fluoride are known to cause neurotoxicity in adults, and negative impacts on memory and learning have been reported in rodent studies, but little is known about the substance’s impact on children’s neurodevelopment. In a meta-analysis, researchers from Harvard School of Public Health (HSPH) and China Medical University in Shenyang for the first time combined 27 studies and found strong indications that fluoride may adversely affect cognitive development in children. Based on the findings, the authors say that this risk should not be ignored, and that more research on fluoride’s impact on the developing brain is warranted.
Straw Man – Tamati, stop being foolish, go do some reading, you are way off track on this one!
The unnatural toxic by-product created by the toxic pollution of the fertilizer and mining industries, banned in most of the western world, even banned in china, yet they sell it to those nations, states, cities, foolish enough to PAY, to take it off their hands, saving them millions in the cost of the disposal.
Are you suggesting that its ok to put the toxic by-product in water, yet the testing of the naturally occurring levels of testing, was a, *straw man
You didn’t answer the question, Tamati. Your obviously a proponent of mass medication, regardless if you could identify where Water Care Services, for example, source the product they dump into Aucklands water supply, or not!
Perhaps take up the conversation people such as…
Dr. Arvid Carlsson, won the Nobel Prize in Medicine/Physiology in 2000 for his research on neurotransmitters in the brain. In a 2005 interview, Dr. Arvid Carlsson noted that “fluoridation is against all modern principles of pharmacology. It’s obsolete. I don’t think anybody in Sweden, not a single dentist, would bring up this question anymore.”
-Rosalie Bertell, PhD, Regent of the Board, International Physicians for Humanitarian Medicine, Geneva, Switzerland,
-Theo Colborn, PhD, co-author, Our Stolen Future
-Ken Cook, President, Environmental Working Group
-Pat Costner, retired Senior Scientist, Greenpeace International
-Ron Cummins, Director, Organic Consumers Association
-Ingrid Eckerman, MD, MPH, President, Swedish Doctors for the Environment (LFM), Stockholm, Sweden
-Sam Epstein, MD, author, “Politics of Cancer” and Chairman,Cancer Prevention Coalition
-Jay Feldman, Executive Director, Beyond Pesticides
-Lois Gibbs, Executive Director, Center for Health, Environment, and Justice
-Andy Harris, MD, Former National President, Physicians for Social Responsibility
-Vyvyan Howard, MD, PhD, Past President, International Society of Doctors for the Environment
-Stephen Lester, Science Director, Center for Health, Environment, and Justice
-Peter Montague, PhD, Director of Environmental Health Foundation
-Ted Schettler, MD, Science Director, Science and Environmental Health Network
If the Scandinavians don’t use it, that in itself would be sufficient evidence for me, they know better than the halfwits of the anglo-file western world, by very long way!
I know, silly old Harvard for publishing that. Even worse, they published this statement from the study authors –
–These results do not allow us to make any judgment regarding possible levels of risk at levels of exposure typical for water fluoridation in the U.S. On the other hand, neither can it be concluded that no risk is present. We therefore recommend further research to clarify what role fluoride exposure levels may play in possible adverse effects on brain development, so that future risk assessments can properly take into regard this possible hazard.
That is responsible science.
Following on from that, the public have a role to play in how public health policy is formed.
btw, it wasn’t a single study. It was a meta study done by the Harvard School of Public Health and the China Medical University, analysing 27 individual studies.
How about we do something we can actually achieve and will actually make a difference to people’s lives?
Clearly the substances will have different effect at vastly different concentrations. Dihydrogen monoxide kills at higher enough concentrations, should we ban that from our water supply.
Can you not agree to the hypothesis that as a general dietary article removing softdrinks would be good for children’s health? That aside, at no point did I say I want to ban softdrinks. I mentioned they are right there on the shelf, doing damage one hyper-caloried litre of refined sugars at a time. I may have distractedly pointed at the selective hypocrisy of harm reduction protocols in modern society. That does not mean I want to ban it. I did say it would be better if the bullets were taken away and perhaps that is a tad severe, as I am more naturally inclined to simply point the gun away from the person.
btw- ever hook anything on that joke’s dull barb ? 😎
Absolutely removing soft drinks would be a great for children’s health. I think you’ll find many of those advocating for Fluoridation would also strongly support restrictions on access to soft drinks.
You agree that choice is important and I would guess you see that through an incredibly simple adjustment to existing commercial structures there could be varied choices as to how fluoridated water can be delivered to the populace. Fluoridated toothpaste is a far more reliable and direct method of delivery but off the shelf bottled water with all the toxins you can handle also seems a logical product. Might be a real goldmine for you, seeing as there are apparently so many people interested in ingesting a poison that in its raw state dissolves concrete.
Have you ever looked at the links of fluoride to retardation of brain development and associated difficulties? If you choose to medicate you and yours with industrial waste products that is your decision. Have you fully considered others also want the right to make that decision about what medication they ingest. There are few topics in this world more important, more essential for a society to evaluate, than citizens being medicated against their will. I do hope you reconsider your willingness to submit.
Funny you should say that. Those middle class “chardonnay” activists brought a bunch of scientists with them to make their case.
If you’re so keen on fluoride you’ll find it in every toothpaste and most of those “poor” children will use it no matter whether they want it or not cause it is really hard to find a tooth paste without the crap.
Might pay to delve into topical versus ingested fluoride, then have a look at blind tests conducted elsewhere, then look at the comparison between Sodium Fluoride and Calcium Fluoride and associated test results.. Once you have managed all of that, I’d dearly welcome you coming back and still extolling the virtues of forced medication via your drinking water…
Meanwhile I guess I’m off to enjoy my Chardonnay and gaze lovingly over my garden. Oh whoops, I’m actually working – nice failed stereotype on your part…
I don’t feel like reading that study tonight but would point out two things. One is that conservative values are part of why humans have been successful (if you do what already works, your tribe succeeds and reproduces), so it’s likely that our best bet is a mix of liberal and conservative values (Am not talking politics here, nor equating conservative with neoliberal).
The other point is that prejudice against conservatives is hardly a solution to the prejudicial nature of right wingers. And it’s not like the left don’t have problems of their own on this score.
Actually I would think that a species that can repeat successful behaviour,
plus be flexible and innovative enough to adapt to new situations/environments,
proactively take measures to deal with some predictable dangers,
and be innovative in adapting their environment to maximise their potential, would be more likely to be “successful” evolutionary-wise.
Also, reproduction over generations is generally more beneficial to a community if they have sex with people outside their own group in order to diversify their genes/DNA. That requires that a community is open to practices of different kinds of communities.
Yes Karol. I think my point was that humans needed conservative values as well as progressive/adaptive ones, so we should be wary of developing prejudices against conservatism.
We could argue that an excess of innovative genes got us into our current mess though 😉 (all the way from the invention of agriculture through to AGW).
Actually I would think that a species that can repeat successful behaviour,
plus be flexible and innovative enough to adapt to new situations/environments,
proactively take measures to deal with some predictable dangers,
and be innovative in adapting their environment to maximise their potential, would be more likely to be “successful” evolutionary-wise.
You speak of “species”, but for humans you need to speak of “tribes” or “traditions”.
Many rural conservatives do all of this automatically. You can snow these people in on their farm for a week without town power, town water or town supplies, and they wouldn’t give a damn.
Liberal left wing townies – freezing and near starving after 2 days.
Also, reproduction over generations is generally more beneficial to a community if they have sex with people outside their own group in order to diversify their genes/DNA.
A gene pool of 50,000 people is ample. Has real advantage been shown for a larger number than that? Not sure.
Evolutionary success focuses at a species level. Tribal and traditional differences are an example of the diverse ways the human species is able to adapt to the circumstances they are born into. They are learned differences and, in principle, can be unlearned. though individuals differ as to how much they can adapt to something different from their up-bringing.
These days your characterisation might be true of me as a left wing townie, CV. But when I grew up in Auckland, there were far less mod cons and we often “made do” Summer holidays were spent camping with few mod cons – kerosene lamps, long drop loo, no hot water, no baths or showers, only the radio to listen to at night.
In my younger days I spent several months hitching and camping in Europe, in fairly cold weather (sometimes snow) always sleeping out doors on the hard ground.
It doesn’t take that long to get used to changed circumstances, at least for some of us.
In the “old” days, people mended their own clothes (and handed them down), grew a large proportion of their own vegetables, were quite happy to light and heat one room in a house. Advertising and societal pressures have deliberately taught people to want and expect more. How many people can even plan meals ahead of time taking things out of the freezer, without a microwave?
Evolutionary success focuses at a species level.
Well, our species has only been around for a couple of hundred thousand years. From a species perspective I think it’s very early days to determine what a successful strategy is and what it is not.
Personally I’ll be very impressed if our current civilisation and economic arrangements lasts another 75 years (nb civilisation, not species).
Well, up til now our species has been very successful in evolutionary terms. However, it looks like we have been too “successful,” and,as you say, CV, our civilisation hangs on the brink.
It sometimes fascinates me to ponder that only a couple of generations back, my ancestors were living without electricity or the kind of indoor plumbing we are used to. Most of my grandparents and all my great grandparents grew up in the likes of Scotland and Northern Ireland without electricity, motor cars etc. I marvel at how they must have coped with winters, whether from working or professional classes.
In that short a time, we have had an escalation in technologies, and, here we are now hanging on the brink.
Hmmm, that’s approximately the size of the surviving Colonial fleet.
That said, the extreme lack of genetic diversity in our species today has suggested to some that after the eruption of the Toba supervolcano, the ancestors of H sap. were reduced to only a couple of thousand breeding pairs or less.
Don’t they seem to spend all of their time trying to screw each other up with or without the connivance of assorted outsiders? Could just be the “reporting” but 50k seems to be somewhat too social to me. Give me a nice anonymous million or so.. And perhaps 50k is a bit small bearing in mind how many back-stabbed dead gene-bearers are around.
by being forthright and direct in his dealings with the fund raisers, the media and the general public?
yeah, that makes a real nice change from what we usually get !
Oh you meant the other thing . . . how The Herald tried to twist a story to make him appear shifty and corrupt and not to be trusted?
Do you have an account at the hatchery ? or just buy a dozen at a time?
Anti-Flouride Mana voters out in force today I see. The lefts very own one percenters.
And as for the Shearer press release, some of you people need to lighten up a bit. It was just a badly constructed sentence. Some of you remind me of item 101 on the site “Stuff White people like”
If a prisoner wants to lift their literacy skills it is really simple
Upon entering Prison they sit a basic literacy/numeracy test, before coming up for parole they sit another test, if they have not improved, they do not get parole and continue to serve their sentence.
I posit the NZ Prisoners who most need help with literacy and numeracy sit in a cell for 20+ hours a day watching TV. That sure as hell does nothing to help rehabilitate our Prison population, but a few more books and parole based enticement couldn’t hurt.
The real question that should be asked and addressed is how the hell these people and there is a lot of them got to be of an age to be sent to prison while having never learned to read nor write,
Some of the most intelligent people i have ever met was whilst a guest of Her Majesty,(spit), in arts as in many other areas a lot of the crims are highly skilled people, at the other end of the spectrum is an up to 20% of the jail population who are illiterate…
I can’t see that working when Serco makes a profit from keeping people locked up. Irrespective of what a prisoner wants, they get what Serco allows them. You’re proposing to make their freedom dependent on something which may be out of their control.
I agree, bad12. How the hell do so many get to adulthood without the very basics for participation in society? The literacy and numeracy need to be there before Serco get their hands on these young people.
I guess I’m preaching to the choir here, but very little of the problem is caused by poor teaching as such. Quite a few of my friends and family have taught or still are teaching in low decile schools. The problems are enormous. With dedicated staff and intelligent remedial programmes many of these schools can and do turn things around to some extent for the majority of the kids passing through them. However it is a simple truth that a relatively small number of kids are practically unteachable. For some that is because they have the bad luck to be born into homes that are so dysfunctional that the by the time they get to school the children are deeply disturbed, antisocial, lack all self discipline and are years behind in their developmental milestones. A small percentage (about 5%) of children in State schools have an IQ of below 75. For obvious reasons the numbers are higher in low decile schools and lower in high decile schools. Without wanting to get into long debates about the measurability of various types of intelligence, this is pretty low mental functioning in anyone’s book. It is not that uncommon for the family background and the mental functioning to have a degree of correlation. In other words the social dysfunction, bad attitude, language problems and basic intelligence all compound each other. It’s also not surprising to find a correlation with lots of other unflattering statistics within this cohort. Trying to achieve functional literacy and numeracy for this relatively small group is extraordinarily difficult.
Personally I’m dying to see what charter schools make of kids like the ones I’ve described above. I suspect they will avoid them like the plague in the same way that private hospitals avoid hard cases that suck up huge resources and give little return.
Then when they get older we “decent folk” in near gladiatorial style smash them for being unable to “engage” in and for our “decent” society. The society devoted to making the rich richer, richer, richer. Scandalous !
Buy a untested car lately? That hasn’t even done a round of road testing? Would you buy that car?
Well Key believes his ministers don’t have any responsibiity when it comes to doing even the basics of due diligence, and even sits through the Novapay minister declare all she had to do was take the advice of the geeks. No. She knows full well the Novapay system had no preliminarily testing in the field, that it went live. Well its understandable, working with those who would have to work with the system, those evil educational establishments, the evil teacher union, would make the Nats look weak.
And its not the first time for Key to mess up on process, on ministers assuming they can sit on their hands, land sales anyone, mines anyone, its looks like Key just doesn’t get, or do, good governance.
Just not good enough for a minister whose minstry has just messed up to the tune of millions, or death, can just rub their hands and say all they had to do was listen to advice.
aerobubble Well thinking about buying untested cars. Govt has just changed the regime that ensured we got regular wofs. Frankly they don’t care whether things actually work right, are running correctly, it’s the appearance of doing something, the setting up, the excitement, the spreading of largesse and getting some oneself that counts.
“URGENT ‘Open Letter’ / OIA request to the Chair of the Social Services Select Committee – National Party MP Peseta Lotu-Iiga Sam”
5 June 2013
“URGENT ‘Open Letter’ / OIA request to the Chair of the Social Services Select Committee – National Party MP Peseta Lotu-Iiga Sam”
Dear Sam,
I am scheduled to address the Social Services Select Committee, of which you are Chair, on Monday 10 June 2013, from 4.10pm – 4.20pm at the hearings on the ‘Housing Accords and Special Housing Areas Bill’, which are to be held at the Ellerslie Novotel Hotel.
I have also just been requested to give evidence in support of my following petition, from 4.20pm – 4.30pm at the same hearing, which I have agreed to do.
Requesting that Parliament declines to proceed with the Housing Accords and Special Housing Areas Bill until the lawfulness of the reliance of Auckland Council on the New Zealand Department of Statistics”high”population growth projections, instead of their “medium” population growth projections for the Auckland Spatial Plan, has been properly and independently investigated, taking into consideration that both Auckland Transport and Watercare Services Ltd, have relied upon “medium” population growth projections for their infrastructural asset management plans.
Petition number: 2011/64
Presented by: Holly Walker
Date presented: 30 May 2013
Referred to: Social Services Committee
It concerns me that the submissions for this arguably very significant Bill, which potentially affects so many people, were closed after a mere 13 days.
Please be reminded of your stated reasons, as outlined in the following Hansard record:
1. Housing Accords and Special Housing Areas Bill—Closing Date for Submissions
[Sitting date: 30 May 2013. Volume:690;Page:19. Text is subject to correction.]
1. HOLLY WALKER (Green) to the Chairperson of the Social Services Committee: When do submissions to the Social Services Committee on the Housing Accords and Special Housing Areas Bill close?
PESETA SAM LOTU-IIGA (Chairperson of the Social Services Committee) :Submissions on this bill close today: Thursday, 30 May 2013.
……………………………………………………………………….
Peseta SAM LOTU-IIGA: After the bill was referred to our committee on the night of Budget night, I made—in my own decision—the decision to set a 13-day period for submissions.
………………………………………………………………………….
Mr SPEAKER: I am going to ask the member Holly Walker to ask the question again, and let us hope that on this occasion we get a simple answer to a simple question.
Holly Walker: Did he consult with the Minister of Housing or his staff before making the decision to close submissions on this date?
Peseta SAM LOTU-IIGA: The bill was referred on the night of Budget night, 16 May, and I did not consult with the Minister. I made this decision on my own.
Mr SPEAKER: Thank you for that answer.
______________________________________________________________________________
Please provide the following information which confirms whether, in making your (arguably arbitrary) decision to close submissions for the above-mentioned ‘Housing Accords and Special Housing Areas Bill’, you were advised by, consulted with or lobbied by any of the following parties:
1) Simon Lusk.
2) Any person(s) associated with, in any way, the Tamaki Redevelopment Company Ltd, in particular – the Chair of the Board – Mr Martin Udale.
3) Any member(s) of, or associated with in any way, the NZ Property Council.
4) Any member(s) of, or associated with in any way, the Committee for Auckland.
5) Any member(s) of, or associated with in any way, the Auckland Council
(either elected representatives or staff).
6) Any Board member(s) of, staff, or anyone associated with in any way, the Auckland Council Property Ltd Council Controlled Organisation (CCO).
7) Any person(s) associated with, in any way, the NZ Treasury.
8) Any person(s) associated with, in any way, the MBIE.
9) Any person(s) associated with the Salvation Army.
10) Any person(s) associated with the Auckland City Mission.
11) Any person(s) associated with the NZ Housing Foundation.
Under the URGENCY provisions of the OIA, given that I wish to use any information I may gather from this OIA reply when I present to the Social Services Select Committee on Monday 10 June 2013, can you please provide this information before 5pm, Friday 7 June 2013.
_____________________________________________________________________________
BACKGROUND INFORMATION:
Maiden Speech National Party MP Peseta Lotu-Iiga Sam
I stand before members today because of the hard work of my campaign team under the disciplined leadership of Mark Thomas, the shrewd counsel of Simon Lusk, and the industry of Josh Beddell, and with the support of many, many supporters, many of whom are here today to be with us. Finally, to the National Party president Judy Kirk, regional manager Alastair Bell, and their respective teams, I say thank you for putting your confidence and trust in me as a candidate in this year’s general election.
Maungakiekie MP welcomes significant milestone for Tamaki
Maungakiekie MP, Peseta Sam Lotu-Iiga, welcomes the first neighbourhood-based renewal programme in New Zealand that was launched today at the opening of the Tamaki Redevelopment Company in Glen Innes.
“This is exciting news for Tamaki. The Tamaki Redevelopment Company (TRC) is exactly what is needed to bring together the local community, Government and Council agencies, businesses, social services and public and private sector investment,” says Mr Lotu-Iiga.
The new company will ensure a coordinated approach to create measurable improvements across four key components over time.
A social component will support Tamaki residents and their families to get the skills, knowledge and employment opportunities they need. An economic component will strengthen the local economy, creating new jobs and business opportunities.
A housing component will optimise land use and existing housing stock, including progressing private housing development and delivering better social housing options in Tamaki.
Meanwhile, a spatial component will create safe and connected neighbourhoods and spaces that support the social and economic development of Tamaki and its community.
“Ultimately, the TRC will bring all the current and future initiatives and projects together into a single strategic framework and will lead a single voice that will deliver Tamaki’s transformation,” says Mr Lotu-Iiga.
“I look forward to seeing the vision of a thriving and self-reliant Tamaki turn into a reality.
In this situation, members of the military hospital suddenly began to distribute face masks to protesters. It was the second time that members of the military, although only indirectly and passively helped the protesters. In the night from Friday to Saturday soldiers had apparently paramedics gives access to injured near a barracks.
This raises the question as to whose side the military would actually stand if the conflict continues to escalate. The Turkish police is now regarded as political through and through penetrated by the ruling AKP party, especially where there are also many supporters of the Islamic Gulen Movement have the say. This may explain the extraordinary brutality of the police action against the protesters since Friday: Because if Erdogan should fall, it would certainly lead to a wave of purges in the ranks of the police.
Turkey has played a significant role in the manipulation of Islamic extremists by the US. The Gulen movement played a role in this but Gulen is now based in Pennsylvania and his movement is banned in several Asian countries. The most recent example of Turkish involvement was Benghazi, in which a Turkish diplomat left before the attacks on the consulate and the CIA annex began. The attacks seem to have been due to a failed arms deal between the CIA an Syrian rebels.
“Fethullah Gulen became a green card holder despite serious opposition from FBI and from Homeland Security Department. Former CIA officers (formally and informally) such as Graham Fuller and Morton Abromovitz were some of the prominent references in Gulen’s green card application.” ~ Foreign Policy Journal
Colin MacDonald Government head IT overseer. Says that it isn’t a matter of money that there is such a low standard of security management in govt entities. Everyone is always busy it’s a matter of priorities, not that managers are overworked (and departments are understaffed with new aspirational programs being added say quarterly, with no extra time allocated to honing them to fit needs and demand, and then maintaining them.)
I think something is revealed by this. He sounds Scottish when he speaks, and is it that our cultural cringe means that we want to employ someone who sounds more knowledgable because he/she have come from overseas, and government hopes, be able to prevaricate in a foreign dialect.
Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: My top six things to note around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the week to July 27 were:1. The Minister for Ford Rangers strikes againTransport Minister Simeon Brown was again the busiest of the Cabinet ministers this week, announcing an ...
You got a fast carAnd I want a ticket to anywhereMaybe we make a dealMaybe together we can get somewhereAny place is betterYesterday’s newsletter, Trust In Me, on the report of abuse in state care, and by religious organisations, between 1950 and 2019, coupled with the hypocrisy of Christopher Luxon ...
New Zealand is again having to reconcile conflicting pressures from its military and its trade interests. Should we join Pillar Two of AUKUS and risk compromising our markets in China? For a century after New Zealand was founded in 1840, its external security arrangements and external economics arrangements were aligned. ...
The ‘50 Shades of Green’ farmers’ protest in 2019 was heavy on climate change denial, but five years on, scepticism and criticism about the idea that pine forests can save us is growing across the board. File photo: Lynn GrievesonTL;DR: Here’s the top six news items of note in climate ...
This morning the sky was bright.The birds, in their usual joyous bliss. Nature doesn’t seem to feel the heat of what might angst humans.Their calls are clear and beautiful.Just some random thoughts:MāoriPaul Goldsmith has announced his government will roll back the judiciary’s rulings on Māori Customary Marine Title, which recognises ...
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Kia ora. These are some stories that caught our eye this week – as always, feel free to share yours in the comments. Our header image this week (via Eke Panuku) shows the planned upgrade for the Karanga Plaza Tidal Swimming Steps. The week in Greater Auckland On ...
1. What's not to love about the way the Harris campaign is turning things around?a. Nothingb. Love all of itc. God what a reliefd. Not that it will be by any means easye. All of the above 2. Documents released by the Ministry of Health show Associate Health Minister Casey ...
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The northern expressway extension from Warkworth to Whangarei is likely to require radical changes to legislation if it is going to be built within the foreseeable future. The Government’s powers to purchase land, the planning process and current restrictions on road tolling are all going to need to be changed ...
Text within this block will maintain its original spacing when publishedFirst they came for the doctors But I was confused by the numbers and costs So I didn't speak up Then they came for our police and nurses And I didn't think we could afford those costs anyway So I ...
Photo by Joshua J. Cotten on UnsplashWe’re back again after our mid-winter break. We’re still with the ‘new’ day of the week (Thursday rather than Friday) when we have our ‘hoon’ webinar with paying subscribers to The Kākā for an hour at 5 pm.Jump on this link on YouTube Livestream ...
Notes: This is a free article. Abuse in Care themes are mentioned. Video is at the bottom.BackgroundYesterday’s report into Abuse in Care revealed that at least 1 in 3 of all who went through state and faith based care were abused - often horrifically. At least, because not all survivors ...
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About a decade ago I worked with a bloke called Steve. He was the grizzled veteran coder, a few years older than me, who knew where the bodies were buried - code wise. Despite his best efforts to be approachable and friendly he could be kind of gruff, through to ...
Some of the recent announcements from the government have reminded us of posts we’ve written in the past. Here’s one from early 2020. There were plenty of reactions to the government’s infrastructure announcement a few weeks ago which saw them fund a bunch of big roading projects. One of ...
TL;DR: My pick of the top six links elsewhere around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day or so to 7:00 am on Thursday, July 25 are:News: Why Electric Kiwi is closing to new customers - and why it matters RNZ’s Susan EdmundsScoop: Government drops ...
Hi,I felt a small wet tongue snaking through one of the holes in my Crocs. It explored my big toe, darting down one side, then the other. “He’s looking for some toe cheese,” said the woman next to me, words that still haunt me to this day.Growing up in New ...
Yesterday I happily quoted the Prime Minister without fact-checking him and sure enough, it turns out his numbers were all to hell. It’s not four kg of Royal Commission report, it’s fourteen.My friend and one-time colleague-in-comms Hazel Phillips gently alerted me to my error almost as soon as I’d hit ...
TL;DR: As of 6:00 am on Thursday, July 25, the top six announcements, speeches, reports and research around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day were:The Abuse in Care Royal Commission of Inquirypublished its final report yesterday.PM Christopher Luxon and The Minister responsible for ...
The Official Information Act has always been a battle between requesters seeking information, and governments seeking to control it. Information is power, so Ministers and government agencies want to manage what is released and when, for their own convenience, and legality and democracy be damned. Their most recent tactic for ...
TL;DR: The top six things I’ve noted around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy today are:Transport and Energy Minister Simeon Brown is accelerating plans to spend at least $10 billion through Public Private Partnerships (PPPs) to extend State Highway One as a four-lane ‘Expressway’ from Warkworth to Whangarei ...
I live my life (woo-ooh-ooh)With no control in my destinyYea-yeah, yea-yeah (woo-ooh-ooh)I can bleed when I want to bleedSo come on, come on (woo-ooh-ooh)You can bleed when you want to bleedYea-yeah, come on (woo-ooh-ooh)Everybody bleed when they want to bleedCome on and bleedGovernments face tough challenges. Selling unpopular decisions to ...
Please note:To skip directly to the- parliamentary footage in the video, scroll to 1:21 To skip to audio please click on the headphone iconon the left hand side of the screenThis video / audio section is under development. ...
Given the crackdown on wasteful government spending, it behooves me to point to a high profile example of spending by the Luxon government that looks like a big, fat waste of time and money. I’m talking about the deployment of NZDF personnel to support the US-led coalition in the Red ...
TL;DR: My pick of the top six links elsewhere around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day or so to 7:40 am on Wednesday, July 24 are:Deep Dive: Chipping away at the housing crisis, including my comments RNZ/Newsroom’s The DetailNews: Government softens on asset sales, ...
As I reported about the city centre, Auckland’s rail network is also going through a difficult and disruptive period which is rapidly approaching a culmination, this will result in a significant upgrade to the whole network. Hallelujah. Also like the city centre this is an upgrade predicated on the City ...
Today, a 4 kilogram report will be delivered to Parliament. We know this is what the report of the Royal Commission of Inquiry into Abuse in State and Faith-based Care weighs, because our Prime Minister told us so.Some reporter had blindsided him by asking a question about something done by ...
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NewstalkZB host Mike Hosking, who can usually be relied on to give Prime Minister Christopher Luxon an easy run, did not do so yesterday when he interviewed him about the HealthNZ deficit. Luxon is trying to use a deficit reported last year by HealthNZ as yet another example of the ...
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You're broken down and tiredOf living life on a merry go roundAnd you can't find the fighterBut I see it in you so we gonna walk it outAnd move mountainsWe gonna walk it outAnd move mountainsAnd I'll rise upI'll rise like the dayI'll rise upI'll rise unafraidI'll rise upAnd I'll ...
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Health NZ warned the Government at the end of March that it was running over Budget. But the reasons it gave were very different to those offered by the Prime Minister yesterday. Prime Minister Christopher Luxon blamed the “botched merger” of the 20 District Health Boards (DHBs) to create Health ...
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The Finance and Expenditure Committee has reported back on National's Local Government (Water Services Preliminary Arrangements) Bill. The bill sets up water for privatisation, and was introduced under urgency, then rammed through select committee with no time even for local councils to make a proper submission. Naturally, national's select committee ...
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History is not on the side of the centre-left, when Democratic presidents fall behind in the polls and choose not to run for re-election. On both previous occasions in the past 75 years (Harry Truman in 1952, Lyndon Johnson in 1968) the Democrats proceeded to then lose the White House ...
This is a free articleCoverageThis morning, US President Joe Biden announced his withdrawal from the Presidential race. And that is genuinely newsworthy. Thanks for your service, President Biden, and all the best to you and yours.However, the media in New Zealand, particularly the 1News nightly bulletin, has been breathlessly covering ...
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TL;DR: As of 7:00 am on Monday, July 22, the top six announcements, speeches, reports and research around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day are:US President Joe Biden announced via X this morning he would not stand for a second term.Multinational professional services firm ...
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This weekend, a friend pointed out someone who said they’d like to read my posts, but didn’t want to pay. And my first reaction was sympathy.I’ve already told folks that if they can’t comfortably subscribe, and would like to read, I’d be happy to offer free subscriptions. I don’t want ...
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Do you remember Y2K, the threat that hung over humanity in the closing days of the twentieth century? Horror scenarios of planes falling from the sky, electronic payments failing and ATMs refusing to dispense cash. As for your VCR following instructions and recording your favourite show - forget about it.All ...
Climate Change Minister Simon Watts being questioned by The Kākā’s Bernard Hickey.TL;DR: My top six things to note around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the week to July 20 were:1. A strategy that fails Zero Carbon Act & Paris targetsThe National-ACT-NZ First Coalition Government finally unveiled ...
Summary:As New Zealand loses at least 12 leaders in the public service space of health, climate, and pharmaceuticals, this month alone, directly in response to the Government’s policies and budget choices, what lies ahead may be darker than it appears. Tui examines some of those departures and draws a long ...
The Minister of Housing’s ambition is to reduce markedly the ratio of house prices to household incomes. If his strategy works it would transform the housing market, dramatically changing the prospects of housing as an investment.Leaving aside the Minister’s metaphor of ‘flooding the market’ I do not see how the ...
As previously noted, my historical fantasy piece, set in the fifth-century Mediterranean, was accepted for a Pirate Horror anthology, only for the anthology to later fall through. But in a good bit of news, it turned out that the story could indeed be re-marketed as sword and sorcery. As of ...
An employee of tobacco company Philip Morris International demonstrates a heated tobacco device. Photo: Getty ImagesTL;DR: The top six things I’ve noted around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy on Friday, July 19 are:At a time when the Coalition Government is cutting spending on health, infrastructure, education, housing ...
TL;DR: My pick of the top six links elsewhere around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day or so to 8:30 am on Friday, July 19 are:Scoop: NZ First Minister Casey Costello orders 50% cut to excise tax on heated tobacco products. The minister has ...
Kia ora, it’s time for another Friday roundup, in which we pull together some of the links and stories that caught our eye this week. Feel free to add more in the comments! Our header image this week shows a foggy day in Auckland town, captured by Patrick Reynolds. ...
TL;DR : Here’s the top six items climate news for Aotearoa this week, as selected by Bernard Hickey and The Kākā’s climate correspondent Cathrine Dyer. A discussion recorded yesterday is in the video above and the audio of that sent onto the podcast feed.The Government released its draft Emissions Reduction ...
Save some money, get rich and old, bring it back to Tobacco Road.Bring that dynamite and a crane, blow it up, start all over again.Roll up. Roll up. Or tailor made, if you prefer...Whether you’re selling ciggies, digging for gold, catching dolphins in your nets, or encouraging folks to flutter ...
Waiting In The Wings:For truly, if Trump is America’s un-assassinated Caesar, then J.D. Vance is America’s Octavian, the Republic’s youthful undertaker – and its first Emperor.DONALD TRUMP’S SELECTION of James D. Vance as his running-mate bodes ill for the American republic. A fervent supporter of Viktor Orban, the “illiberal” prime ...
TL;DR: As of 6:00 am on Friday, July 19, the top six announcements, speeches, reports and research around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day are:The PSAannounced the Employment Relations Authority (ERA) had ruled in the PSA’s favour in its case against the Ministry ...
Te Rangi e tu nei (The sky above us) Te Papa e takoto nei (The land beneath us) Tatou katoa te hunga ora (To us all the living) Tena koutou katoa (Greetings) ...
A late change to charter school legislation will cheat educators out of fair pay and negotiating power proving charter schools are just a vehicle to make profit out of our education system. ...
In 2004 te iwi Māori rallied against the Crown’s attempt to confiscate our coastlines and moana with the Foreshore and Seabed Act. This led to the largest hīkoi of a generation and the birth of Te Pāti Māori. 20 years later, history is repeating itself. Today the government has announced ...
It has been five and a half years since the Royal Commission of Inquiry into Abuse in Care was established to investigate the abuse of children, young people, and vulnerable adults within state and faith-based institutions. Yesterday, the final report - Whanaketia through pain and trauma, from darkness to light ...
The Green Party is calling on the Government to take action off the back of the International Court of Justice ruling on Israel’s illegal occupation of Palestine. ...
On Friday the International Court of Justice reaffirmed what Palestinian’s have been telling us for decades: that the occupation and colonisation of Palestinian lands by Israel is illegal and must end immediately. They also called for reparations for Palestinian’s who have lived under Israeli occupation since it began in 1967. ...
Labour calls on the Government to act after the International Court of Justice (ICJ) ruled that Israel’s occupation of Palestinian Territories is illegal. ...
The 53.7 percent rise in benefit sanctions over the last year is more proof of this Government’s disdain for our communities most in need of support. ...
Aotearoa could be a country where every child grows up feeling safe, loved and with a sense of belonging in their whānau and community. But for some of our children, this is far from reality. Instead, they are trapped in a maze of intergenerational harm that they can’t escape on ...
Te Pāti Māori are calling for David Seymour to resign as Associate Health Minister in response to his call for Pharmac to ignore the Treaty of Waitangi. “This announcement is just another example of the government’s anti-Tiriti, anti-Māori agenda.” Said Co-leader and spokesperson for health, Debbie Ngarewa-Packer. “Seymour thinks it ...
The soaring price of renting is driving the rise of inflation in this country - with latest figures from Stats NZ showing rents are up 4.8 per cent on average while annual inflation is at 3.3 per cent. ...
National’s Emissions Reduction Plan will take New Zealand further from the economy we need to ensure the next generation has a stable climate and secure livelihoods. ...
Following consultation with named parties and thorough consideration of privacy interests, the Green Party is in a position to release the Executive Summary of the final report from the independent investigation into Darleen Tana. ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon should be asking serious questions of his Minister for Resources Shane Jones now it’s been revealed he misled the public about a dinner with mining companies that he didn’t declare and said wasn’t pre-arranged. ...
Te Pāti Māori have submitted to the Justice Select Committee against the Sentencing (Reinstating Three Strikes) Amendment Bill. The bill will further entrench racism in our justice system and fails to focus on rehabilitation. “Reinstating Three Strikes will empower a systematically racist system and exacerbate the overrepresentation of Māori in ...
The Transport and Infrastructure Committee is set to make a determination on the Residential Tenancies Amendment (RTA) Bill in the coming weeks. “This legislation will give landlords the power to kick our whānau out onto the street for no reason” said Housing spokesperson, Mariameno Kapa-Kingi. “Their solution to the housing ...
“National’s campaign was about tackling crime and the best they can do is a two-year long Ministerial Advisory Group,” Labour justice spokesperson Duncan Webb said. ...
“There are more examples of charter schools failing their students than there are success stories. The coalition Government is driving to dismantle our public school system and instead promote a privatised, competitive structure that puts profits before kids,” Jan Tinetti said. ...
“This government is choosing to deliberately mislead and withhold information, keeping our people in the dark about this government’s agenda and the future of our mokopuna,” said co-leader and spokesperson for Health, Debbie Ngarewa-Packer. The call comes after the demand from the Chief Ombudsman that Associate Minister of Health, Casey ...
“Today’s climate announcement by Simon Watts makes clear the National Government is simply paying lip service to meeting its climate change targets,” Megan Woods said. ...
National is choosing to make life harder for workers by taking away the rights our communities have fought hard for. Here's how they’re taking workers backwards. ...
Australia, Canada and New Zealand today issued the following statement on the need for an urgent ceasefire in Gaza and the risk of expanded conflict between Hizballah and Israel. The situation in Gaza is catastrophic. The human suffering is unacceptable. It cannot continue. We remain unequivocal in our condemnation of ...
Attorney-General Judith Collins today reminded all State and faith-based institutions of their legal obligation to preserve records relevant to the safety and wellbeing of those in its care. “The Abuse in Care Inquiry’s report has found cases where records of the most vulnerable people in State and faith‑based institutions were ...
Minister of Internal Affairs Brooke van Velden says the Government’s online safety website for children and young people has reached one million page views. “It is great to see so many young people and their families accessing the site Keep It Real Online to learn how to stay safe online, and manage ...
Tēnā tātou katoa, Ngā mihi te rangi, ngā mihi te whenua, ngā mihi ki a koutou, kia ora mai koutou. Thank you for the opportunity to be here and the invitation to speak at this 50th anniversary conference. I acknowledge all those who have gone before us and paved the ...
New Zealand’s payroll providers have successfully prepared to ensure 3.5 million individuals will, from Wednesday next week, be able to keep more of what they earn each pay, says Finance Minister Nicola Willis and Revenue Minister Simon Watts. “The Government's tax policy changes are legally effective from Wednesday. Delivering this tax ...
An experimental vineyard which will help futureproof the wine sector has been opened in Blenheim by Associate Regional Development Minister Mark Patterson. The covered vineyard, based at the New Zealand Wine Centre – Te Pokapū Wāina o Aotearoa, enables controlled environmental conditions. “The research that will be produced at the Experimental ...
The Coalition Government has confirmed the indicative regional breakdown of North Island Weather Event (NIWE) funding for state highway recovery projects funded through Budget 2024, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “Regions in the North Island suffered extensive and devastating damage from Cyclone Gabrielle and the 2023 Auckland Anniversary Floods, and ...
Indonesia’s Foreign Minister, Retno Marsudi, will visit New Zealand next week, Foreign Minister Winston Peters has announced. “Indonesia is important to New Zealand’s security and economic interests and is our closest South East Asian neighbour,” says Mr Peters, who is currently in Laos to engage with South East Asian partners. ...
He aha te kai a te rangatira? He kōrero, he kōrero, he kōrero. The government has reaffirmed its commitment to supporting the aspirations of Ngāti Maniapoto, Minister for Māori Development Tama Potaka says. “My thanks to Te Nehenehenui Trust – Ngāti Maniapoto for bringing their important kōrero to a ministerial ...
Transport Minister Simeon Brown has thanked outgoing Chair of the Civil Aviation Authority, Janice Fredric, for her service to the board.“I have received Ms Fredric’s resignation from the role of Chair of the Civil Aviation Authority,” Mr Brown says.“On behalf of the Government, I want to thank Ms Fredric for ...
The Government is proposing legislation to overturn a Court of Appeal decision and amend the Marine and Coastal Area Act in order to restore Parliament’s test for Customary Marine Title, Treaty Negotiations Minister Paul Goldsmith says. “Section 58 required an applicant group to prove they have exclusively used and occupied ...
Regulation Minister David Seymour says that opposition parties have united in bad faith, opposing what they claim are ‘dangerous changes’ to the Early Childhood Education sector, despite no changes even being proposed yet. “Issues with affordability and availability of early childhood education, and the complexity of its regulation, has led ...
After receiving more than 740 submissions in the first 20 days, Regulation Minister David Seymour is asking the Ministry for Regulation to extend engagement on the early childhood education regulation review by an extra two weeks. “The level of interest has been very high, and from the conversations I’ve been ...
The Coalition Government is investing $802.9 million into the Wairarapa and Manawatū rail lines as part of a funding agreement with the NZ Transport Agency (NZTA), KiwiRail, and the Greater Wellington and Horizons Regional Councils to deliver more reliable services for commuters in the lower North Island, Transport Minister Simeon ...
Local Government Minister Simeon Brown has announced his intention to appoint a Crown Manager to both Hawke’s Bay Regional and Wairoa District Councils to speed up the delivery of flood protection work in Wairoa."Recent severe weather events in Wairoa this year, combined with damage from Cyclone Gabrielle in 2023 have ...
Mr Speaker, this is a day that many New Zealanders who were abused in State care never thought would come. It’s the day that this Parliament accepts, with deep sorrow and regret, the Report of the Royal Commission of Inquiry into Abuse in Care. At the heart of this report are the ...
For the first time, the Government is formally acknowledging some children and young people at Lake Alice Psychiatric Hospital experienced torture. The final report of the Royal Commission of Inquiry into Abuse in State and Faith-based Care “Whanaketia – through pain and trauma, from darkness to light,” was tabled in Parliament ...
The Government has acknowledged the nearly 2,400 courageous survivors who shared their experiences during the Royal Commission of Inquiry into Historical Abuse in State and Faith-Based Care. The final report from the largest and most complex public inquiry ever held in New Zealand, the Royal Commission Inquiry “Whanaketia – through ...
With a week to go before hard-working New Zealanders see personal income tax relief for the first time in fourteen years, 513,000 people have used the Budget tax calculator to see how much they will benefit, says Finance Minister Nicola Willis. “Tax relief is long overdue. From next Wednesday, personal income ...
Workplace Relations and Safety Minister Brooke van Velden says a bill that has passed its first reading will improve parental leave settings and give non-biological parents more flexibility as primary carer for their child. The Regulatory Systems Amendment Bill (No3), passed its first reading this morning. “It includes a change ...
Two Bills designed to improve regulation and make it easier to do business have passed their first reading in Parliament, says Economic Development Minister Melissa Lee. The Regulatory Systems (Economic Development) Amendment Bill and Regulatory Systems (Immigration and Workforce) Amendment Bill make key changes to legislation administered by the Ministry ...
New legislation paves the way for greater competition in sectors such as banking and electricity, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly says. “Competitive markets boost productivity, create employment opportunities and lift living standards. To support competition, we need good quality regulation but, unfortunately, a recent OECD report ranked New ...
Minister of Internal Affairs Brooke van Velden says lotteries for charitable purposes, such as those run by the Heart Foundation, Coastguard NZ, and local hospices, will soon be allowed to operate online permanently. “Under current laws, these fundraising lotteries are only allowed to operate online until October 2024, after which ...
The Coalition Government is accelerating work on the new four-lane expressway between Auckland and Whangārei as part of its Roads of National Significance programme, with an accelerated delivery model to deliver this project faster and more efficiently, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “For too long, the lack of resilient transport connections ...
Sir Don McKinnon will travel to Viet Nam this week as a Special Envoy of the Government, Foreign Minister Winston Peters has announced. “It is important that the Government give due recognition to the significant contributions that General Secretary Nguyen Phu Trong made to New Zealand-Viet Nam relations,” Mr ...
Minister of Internal Affairs Brooke van Velden says newly appointed Commissioner, Grant Illingworth KC, will help deliver the report for the first phase of the Royal Commission of Inquiry into COVID-19 Lessons, due on 28 November 2024. “I am pleased to announce that Mr Illingworth will commence his appointment as ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters travels to Laos this week to participate in a series of Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN)-led Ministerial meetings in Vientiane. “ASEAN plays an important role in supporting a peaceful, stable and prosperous Indo-Pacific,” Mr Peters says. “This will be our third visit to ...
Construction of a new mental health facility at Te Nikau Grey Hospital in Greymouth is today one step closer, Mental Health Minister Matt Doocey says. “This $27 million facility shows this Government is delivering on its promise to boost mental health care and improve front line services,” Mr Doocey says. ...
New Zealand is committing nearly $50 million to a package supporting sustainable Pacific fisheries development over the next four years, Foreign Minister Winston Peters and Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones announced today. “This support consisting of a range of initiatives demonstrates New Zealand’s commitment to assisting our Pacific partners ...
Associate Education Minister David Seymour says proposed changes to the Education and Training Amendment Bill will ensure charter schools have more flexibility to negotiate employment agreements and are equipped with the right teaching resources. “Cabinet has agreed to progress an amendment which means unions will not be able to initiate ...
In response to serious concerns around oversight, overspend and a significant deterioration in financial outlook, the Board of Health New Zealand will be replaced with a Commissioner, Health Minister Dr Shane Reti announced today. “The previous government’s botched health reforms have created significant financial challenges at Health NZ that, without ...
Minister for Space and Science, Innovation and Technology Judith Collins will travel to Adelaide tomorrow for space and science engagements, including speaking at the Australian Space Forum. While there she will also have meetings and visits with a focus on space, biotechnology and innovation. “New Zealand has a thriving space ...
Climate Change Minister Simon Watts will travel to China on Saturday to attend the Ministerial on Climate Action meeting held in Wuhan. “Attending the Ministerial on Climate Action is an opportunity to advocate for New Zealand climate priorities and engage with our key partners on climate action,” Mr Watts says. ...
Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones is travelling to the Solomon Islands tomorrow for meetings with his counterparts from around the Pacific supporting collective management of the region’s fisheries. The 23rd Pacific Islands Forum Fisheries Committee and the 5th Regional Fisheries Ministers’ Meeting in Honiara from 23 to 26 July ...
The Government today launched the Military Style Academy Pilot at Te Au rere a te Tonga Youth Justice residence in Palmerston North, an important part of the Government’s plan to crackdown on youth crime and getting youth offenders back on track, Minister for Children, Karen Chhour said today. “On the ...
The Government has welcomed news the NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) has begun work to replace nine priority bridges across the country to ensure our state highway network remains resilient, reliable, and efficient for road users, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says.“Increasing productivity and economic growth is a key priority for the ...
Acting Prime Minister David Seymour has been in contact throughout the evening with senior officials who have coordinated a whole of government response to the global IT outage and can provide an update. The Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet has designated the National Emergency Management Agency as the ...
New Zealand and Japan will continue to step up their shared engagement with the Pacific, Foreign Minister Winston Peters says. “New Zealand and Japan have a strong, shared interest in a free, open and stable Pacific Islands region,” Mr Peters says. “We are pleased to be finding more ways ...
New developments in the heart of North Island forestry country will reinvigorate their communities and boost economic development, Regional Development Minister Shane Jones says. Mr Jones visited Kaingaroa and Kawerau in Bay of Plenty today to open a landmark community centre in the former and a new connecting road in ...
President Adeang, fellow Ministers, honourable Diet Member Horii, Ambassadors, distinguished guests. Minasama, konnichiwa, and good afternoon, everyone. Distinguished guests, it’s a pleasure to be here with you today to talk about New Zealand’s foreign policy reset, the reasons for it, the values that underpin it, and how it ...
Last summer when Matairangi burned, Ginny and Tom stood at the window of their lounge, watching kākā shoot skyward from the burning trees. From the distance, they looked to Ginny like pages torn from books and thrown into a bonfire. It was Tom, voice tight, who told her it was ...
Opinion: The Canadian short story writer Alice Munro – winner of the Nobel Prize in Literature in 2013 – died in May at the age of 92. Her work was about “the damage people inflict on one another in the name of love”, Deborah Treisman wrote in the New Yorker. ...
This month marks two years since the most powerful telescope ever built sent its first pictures back to earth. From its lofty vantage point, beyond the moon in orbit around the sun, the James Webb Space Telescope was tuned to observe the first stars and galaxies being born soon after ...
Comment: After Climate Change Minister Simon Watts’ preview several weeks ago, I had some optimism about the Government’s emissions reduction plan. Now I’ve read the discussion document, that hope has been dashed. How can the Government propose a plan that wants to take New Zealand taxpayers’ hard-earned money, and spend ...
Christopher Luxon: hurdles The little man from National jumps hurdles in his sleep. He’s quite good at it in his dreams and even though the reality doesn’t quite match up you have to give him credit for getting up every morning and crashing into the very first hurdle of the ...
Comment: It was a good two hours into the conversation when Tyrone Marks raised the most basic of questions when I first spoke to him in 2017. “They didn’t explain the things they did to me. They never told me why. And they still haven’t. There’s no explanation for it. ...
Madeleine Chapman rounds out Death Week on The Spinoff with a final recommendation. You can read all of our Death Week coverage here. Nothing forces you to reflect on your life and relationships quite like proximity to death. For those whose nearest and dearest have died, there are reasonably obvious ...
Whitney Greene takes us through her life in television, including the TV character she’d like to plan a funeral for and her cow lung catastrophe on The Traitors NZ. “If the phone rings, I have to answer it,” Whitney Greene from The Traitors NZ warns as we begin our My ...
Maddie Ballard reviews the debut essay collection of Pōneke writer Flora Feltham.In ‘The Raw Material’, the longest essay in Flora Feltham’s dazzling debut collection, the author heads out for a run after hours of weaving and sees the world turn to textile. “Pounding along the Parade, I saw the ...
Andy Christiansen, one half of the experimental rock-pop duo TRiPS, shares the tunes inspiring the band’s perfect weekend and new release. “Good speakers, good food, good music, no distractions”: that’s all you need to enjoy the psychedelic stylings of TRiPS, a new band formed by Fly My Pretties’ Barnaby Weir ...
Celebrating our quadrennial opportunity to become experts in a bunch of sports we never normally watch.The games of the XXXIII Olympiad are upon us. Paris will host this year’s showcase of sporting and athletic prowess, which means some late-night and early-morning viewing for us in Aotearoa.But what sports ...
The photograph is striking and beautiful, but also disturbing – a reminder that my love for John was often entangled in shame.The Sunday Essay is made possible thanks to the support of Creative New Zealand.In the spring of 1980, in Dunedin, shortly before his death, someone took a photograph ...
Get to know Babushka, our latest Dog of the Month. This feature was offered as a reward during our What’s Eating Aotearoa PledgeMe campaign. Thank you to Babu’s humans, Jo and Isabel, for their support. Dog name: Babushka (Babu for short) Age: 2Breed: Border Collie X poodleIf rescued, ...
Pacific Media Watch A Lebanese photojournalist who was severely wounded during an Israeli air strike in south Lebanon carried the Olympic torch in Paris this week in honour of her peers who have been wounded and killed in the field — especially in Gaza and Lebanon. Christina Assi of Agence ...
The first report in a five-part web series focused on the 15th Triennial Conference of Pacific Women taking place in the Marshall Islands this week.SPECIAL REPORT:By Netani Rika in Majuro Women continue to fight for justice 70 years after the first nuclear tests by the United States caused ...
Christopher Luxon has joined with Australia and Canada's leaders in voicing support for US President Joe Biden's ceasefire deal between Israel and Hamas. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra The 2022 election brought the “teal wave” into parliament. The next election will test whether teals, who occupy what were Liberal seats, and other independents can maintain their momentum. Joining us on the Podcast ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Ian Musgrave, Senior lecturer in Pharmacology, University of Adelaide Pixavri/Shutterstock A major Federal Court class action has been dismissed this week after Justice Michael Lee ruled there was not enough evidence to prove the weedkiller Roundup causes cancer. Plaintiff Kelvin ...
In The Week in Politics: politicians have to decide what to do about child abuse, Health NZ is booked in for major surgery and Darleen Tana returns. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Clare Corbould, Associate Professor, Contemporary Histories Research Group, Deakin University Mainstream media are surprisingly muted at the prospect of the world’s most powerful nation being led for the first time by a woman – specifically a woman of colour, Vice President Kamala ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Rebecca Bennett, PhD Student, Associate Research Fellow, Deakin University Last week, a drone delivery company called Wing (owned by Google’s parent company, Alphabet) started operating in Melbourne. Some 250,000 residents in parts of the city’s eastern suburbs can now order food from ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Jonathan Foo, Lecturer, Physiotherapy, Monash University pikselstock/Shutterstock In the next 40 years in Australia, it’s predicted the number of Australians aged 65 and over will more than double, while the number of people aged 85 and over will more than triple. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Katrina Grant, Research Associate, Power Institute for Arts and Visual Culture, University of Sydney Jonas Åkerström’s 1790 work, Session of the Accademia dell’Arcadia on August 17 1788.Nationalmuseum/Cecilia Heisser Ever wondered whether you’d have a better chance at winning an Olympic gold ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Alexandra Jones, Program Lead, Food Governance, George Institute for Global Health wavebreakmedia/Shutterstock On Thursday, Australian and New Zealand food ministers at state, federal and national levels met to thrash out what’s next for health star ratings on packaged foods. Now, after ...
The Abuse in Care report found many Pacific survivors lost their connections to their culture and language, resulting in trauma that has been carried from generation to generation. ...
In the regulatory review, ECC intends to suggest that ERO focus on curriculum delivery reviews rather than the Ministry, because it’s not efficient or effective to have two agencies with radically different approaches climbing over each other. ...
Te Rūnanga Nui o Ngā Kura Kaupapa Māori invites the current government to work in partnership with them to develop a pathway forward, including the development of a parallel pathway and meaningful policy and strategy for Kura Kaupapa Māori ...
If you haven’t started watching yet, Tara Ward begs you to reconsider. This is an excerpt from our weekly pop culture newsletter Rec Room. Sign up here. In the world of New Zealand reality television, we have many gems in our crown. There’s the delicious second season of the Celebrity Treasure ...
A new poem by Fiona Kidman. The clothes of the dead I did not keep my mother’s furry red beret for long nor the stringy scarves that adorned the necks of my aunts, although I have kept tag ends of gold, the rings and trinkets they wore, the brooches no ...
The government’s announcement that it will re-open the foreshore and seabed controversy by changing the rules on recognising centuries-old Māori customary title for a third time goes against the rule of law and New Zealand values,” Mr Tipa says. ...
The only published and available best-selling indie book chart in New Zealand is the top 10 sales list recorded every week at Unity Books’ stores in High St, Auckland, and Willis St, Wellington.AUCKLAND1 Lioness by Emily Perkins (Bloomsbury, $25) Roarrrr! Perkins’ brilliant, award-winning, Marian-Keyes anointed, darkly funny, long ...
The 2004 Act vested ownership of the foreshore and seabed in the Crown, extinguishing any Māori claims to ownership and causing widespread outrage and protests among Māori communities. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Antje Deckert, Associate Professor (Criminology), Auckland University of Technology Getty Images Despite the connection between institutional harm and gang membership made clear in this week’s mammoth royal commission abuse-in care report, the government seems unlikely to soften its “get tough on ...
From Lewis Clareburt in the swimming to the start of the rowing – the first seven days of Paris 2024 promise to be big for New Zealand. There are few events that bring the country together quite like an Olympic Games. Nothing quite matches the excitement of getting up in ...
Groundbreaking local science just showed up in the most surprising of places: the season finale of The Kardashians. In the season five finale of The Kardashians last night, several members of the family gathered together in one of their signature empty, cream-coloured rooms to hear test results that had been ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Amin Saikal, Emeritus professor of Middle Eastern and Central Asian Studies, Australian National University The Middle East is on the brink of a possibly devastating regional war, with hostilities between Israel and Hezbollah reaching an extremely dangerous level. Washington has engaged in ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Laura Elizabeth Eades, Rheumatologist, Monash University Lupus is an inflammatory autoimmune illness, where the body’s immune system mistakenly attacks itself. Lupus can affect virtually any part of the body, although it most commonly affects the skin, joints and kidneys. The symptoms ...
A law firm that specialises in working with survivors of abuse in State care is disappointed that the Government fails to recognise that its boot camps can be directly compared to previous boot camps from the 1990s and 2000s. ...
Dying is a natural part of life, like updating your Wof or seeing your hairdresser, but without the word-of-mouth recs that help guarantee a good service. What if we changed that? Dying Reviews received by The Spinoff have had the names of organisations redacted while Hospice NZ collects further data. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Jonti Horner, Professor (Astrophysics), University of Southern Queensland Mike Lewinski/Flickr, CC BY On any clear night, if you gaze skywards long enough, chances are you’ll see a meteor streaking through the sky. Some nights, however, are better than others. At ...
Despite having no bars or other designated spaces for lesbians, Auckland boasts a small but mighty lesbian museum. So how did it get here? The past 18 months has brought increasing hostility towards the queer community across Aotearoa. Kellie-Jay Keen-Minshull’s anti-trans rally in Tamaki Makaurau last March led to a ...
Poneke Antifascist Coalition has invited Wellingtonians to stand in solidarity with the Kanak people at 12pm today outside the French Embassy in Wellington. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Peter Layton, Visiting Fellow, Strategic Studies, Griffith University Drones are the signature technology of the Ukraine war. A few miniature aircraft designs were used in the war’s early days, but an incredible array of drones have now evolved. There are different types, ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Mark Slee, Associate Professor, Clinical Academic Neurologist, Flinders University Francisco Gonzelez/Unsplash Migraine is many things, but one thing it’s not is “just a headache”. “Migraine” comes from the Greek word “hemicrania”, referring to the common experience of migraine being predominantly ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Lee White, Senior Lecturer and Horizon Fellow, School of Social and Political Sciences, University of Sydney Australia was slow to introduce minimum building standards for energy efficiency. The Nationwide House Energy Rating Scheme (NatHERS) only came into force in 2003. Older homes ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Steven Sherwood, Professor of Atmospheric Sciences, Climate Change Research Centre, UNSW Sydney The past century of human-induced warming has increased rainfall variability over 75% of the Earth’s land area – particularly over Australia, Europe and eastern North America, new research shows. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Tony Heynen, Program Coordinator, Sustainable Energy, The University of Queensland A temporary stadium in the Champ-de-Mars, ParisEkaterina Pokrovsky/Shutterstock As Paris prepares to host the Olympic and Paralympic Games, the sustainability of the event is coming under scrutiny. The organisers have promoted ...
A night of karaoke and community in a pub that feels like a memory. You’d barely even notice it, unless you knew to look. Tucked away behind a liquor store on busy Constable Street is the capital’s last great pub. Newtown Sports Bar is an emblem of the pub culture ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Ian Wright, Professor in Marine Geology, University of Canterbury Louise Corcoran/Getty Images The decline in the number of doctoral candidates at New Zealand universities is a worrying sign for the country’s effort to build a knowledge-based economy. Aotearoa New Zealand’s ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Laurie Berg, Associate Professor, University of Technology Sydney defotoberg/Shutterstock Migrant worker exploitation is entrenched in workplaces across Australia. Tragically, a deep fear of immigration consequences means most unlawful employer conduct goes unreported. On Wednesday, however, the government officially launched a ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Vaughan Cruickshank, Senior Lecturer in Health and Physical Education, University of Tasmania Paris is about to host its third summer Olympics. While we don’t yet know what the legacy of this year’s games will be, let’s take the opportunity to reflect on ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Hugh Breakey, Deputy Director, Institute for Ethics, Governance & Law, Griffith University In the wake of the assassination attempt on former US President Donald Trump, there were calls from bothsides of US politics, as well as internationally, to reduce the brutal, ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Keith Rathbone, Senior Lecturer, Modern European History and Sports History, Macquarie University Two high-profile assaults on Australians in Paris have raised concerns about security ahead of the Olympic Games. On Saturday evening, a young woman was allegedly sexually assaulted by a ...
Dying is inevitable and, so it seems, is it costing a lot, writes Stewart Sowman-Lund in today’s extract from The Bulletin. To receive The Bulletin in full each weekday, sign up here.The cost of dying ...
The government took Joyce Harris's first baby and sent her off to a girls' home. Half a century on - and out of oceans of hurt - it asked her to be a mother figure. ...
It’s the deadliest fictional town in the country, but which death has been the most bonkers? Alex Casey looks back at 10 seasons of The Brokenwood Mysteries to find out. Warning: The following ranking story contains famous New Zealand actors appearing to be dead (not alive). The Spinoff has been ...
Water cremation is the biggest thing to happen to the death industry in the last 100 years. Alex Casey meets the people trying to bring it to Aotearoa. Through a set of mirrored doors down the industrial end of Christchurch’s St Asaph Street, death is getting a new lease on ...
The tabling of the final report from the Royal Commission on Abuse in Care is a watershed moment for New Zealand. This comprehensive document lays bare the pervasive abuse and neglect experienced by children, young people, and adults in state and faith-based care from 1950 to 1999, and beyond. Among ...
An Australian Green Party MP warns the Green Party here, to be very careful about going into coalition with Labour:
The New Zealand Green Party leadership have been very clear on what policies and principles they would compromise on.
All of them.
The exact quote from the above article actually reads:
Speaking at the Green Party conference in Christchurch, Victorian senator Richard Di Natale said Greens would have to be very clear about what policies and principles they would not compromise on.
As far as I can see the Greens are a party with the strongest sense of identity (what they stand for) and they appear the least likely to compromise anything. I conclude voting for the Greens won’t be wasted.
The New Zealand Green Party leadership have been very clear on what policies and principles they would compromise on.
All of them.
Norman/Turia
Sigh, telling lies again Jenny. Please don’t use quotation when you are not quoting someone. There is other html to be used to get you point across.
I’ve googled this There are, “no bottom lines for post-election negotiations”., and got only one hit that comes close and no, it’s not a quote of Norman or Turei about being willing to compromise anything. It’s a slight paraphrase of a quote from the the Dom Post reporting on Norman talking about the GP relationship with Labour (it’s an interesting article).
Here’s part of what he said –
the Opposition parties will announce the results of their manufacturing inquiry later this month.
“They’ve got their schtick, we’ve got ours,” Dr Norman says. He has no bottom lines for post-election negotiations.
“If you don’t have 51 per cent of the votes in Parliament, then you’ve got to talk to people … Labour and the Greens are trying to develop a relationship where we can talk even when we disagree … where we find a compromise will depend on the relative strengths of either party.”
In October, he refused to rule in or out becoming finance minister in any future coalition, but did say the party would be looking for key portfolios: “Economics and finance portfolios, but other social and environmental portfolios.”
He still won’t confirm what politicos all suspect – that he wants charge of the Treasury.
“We will sort all that in negotiations after. Obviously we want to have a significant influence on the government and that means having important ministries … Cabinet seats should be roughly proportional to the relationship between the different parties involved in it.”
So, He has no bottom lines for post-election negotiations. when taken in context, sounds to me like he’s not making demands of the Labour party and much will depend on how many seats they get, but also on how well the two parties are getting along. eg it’s obvious he wants Finance, but he knows that it’s not a given. The major bit that Jenny is missing (or intentionally leaving out) is that the GP value relationship and recognise that coalition is as much about that as it is about getting what one wants, and that they have skills in negotiating and relationship building that should improve the left’s chances of forming a stable and coherent govt (assuming Labour can manage that from their side).
There is plenty of historical examples of minor parties being rooted after going into Coalition with a ‘big brother’. If the Green’s wish to keep their support and their conscience I suggest they opt for the Gingrich standard
“…to be open to working with everyone, that we will cooperate with anyone, and we will compromise with no one”
Really? the Republican party as a model for how to operate?
Adopt his strategy not his ideology, obviously.
It’s a strategy of obstruction though. I really don’t think it will work under MMP.
What Gingrich was saying was that he would not co-operate with a Dem president unless the Dem president was doing what the GOP demanded. In a coalition govt, how will that possibly work?
If they don’t they’ll end up like Nick Clegg and the Liberal Democrats.
Not necessarily.
But I’m wondering how what you advise would work in practice. Any thoughts?
In practice I’d advise the Greens, that it’s better for their long term survival to aspire to lead a government than be the tail of a rather timid dog.
However, I guess my advice was probably more relevent to the negotiations after an election, rather than the day to day running of a government. They need to avoid being seen as simply a wing of the Labour party and be able to publicly disagree with Labour whislt in government. In negotiating they need stand firm to their principles and empower their party membership to have a final say on any agrements. And, as much as it may hurt, be prepared to go into opposition against a Labour-NZ first government in 2014.
Nick Clegg, Joshka Fischer, Jim Anderton, Peter Sharples. Pragamatists of the world hall of shame. Welcomes new prospective entrants, Russel Norman and Metiria Turei
I sense that you are going to have a life long disappointment with politicians.
Not at all. There have been some great politicians.
Any living NZ or Australian politicians you actually approve of?
David Cunliffe, Hone Harawira.
As for living Australian politicians. I couldn’t really say.
Of course Weka.
And you will apologise when? When the Greens sign up to be part of an administration that supports, Fracking, Deep Sea Oil Drilling and the leveling of the Denniston Plateau for its coal? Maybe? Possibly? I doubt it. Then you will argue that such a monumental sell out was necessary in the interests of pragmatism.
All the evidence is that the Green Party leadership are quite open to the idea of dumping principled opposition to climate change for cabinet positions. Your and others continued cover for this reality will only make it more likely that they will follow through.
Still pissing into the tent from the outside I see.
Ae.
I couldn’t count the number of times I have heard this crudity expressed to me by Labour Party supporters and politicians, particularly during the Rogenomic years. But also many times after. As they tell it. The full quote reads; “It is better to be in the tent pissing out, than outside the tent pissing in.” I always ask those politicians who have dared to express this crudity to me. (Safe and warm inside their tent). “Yes, But who are you pissing on?”
It doesn’t surprise me CV, that you are recommending this cynical viewpoint to the Greens.
It also doesn’t surprise me that weka, (see his following comment), thinks you are being witty, and not politically crude.
Your offence at metaphorical crude language your best defence now?
The Green membership have a huge control over party policy. Why aren’t you in there persuading them with your strong views? Why are you outside pissing in trying to lecture to their caucus?
Why are you happy to complain but not happy to take up the role and responsibility of being a Green Party member speaking up at their Conference?
There is no comparison between the Labour Party in the 80s and the GP now. CV has explained why several times now. It actually says alot about you that you would draw that comparison and not understand the very real structural and procedural reasons for why it is false (have you not been paying any attention to the problems the Labour party has with democracy?).
Did you notice that CV didn’t say anything about being on the inside pissing out? Why would you assume that he was suggesting that?
I didn’t find his comment witty, I found it astute. Please don’t put words in my mouth or motives in my comments that aren’t there (god knows how you could read anything about my attitude or response from a one word comment anyway).
Weka have you never heard this before? It is the unspoken first half of this often repeated in house, Labour Party saying.
Which goes in full;
“It is better to be in the tent pissing out, than outside the tent pissing in”.
CV knows, that I know, this familiar Labour Party saying. He was just using short hand.
Weka this obviously unfamiliar to you, popular Labour Party in-house crudity, has been used over the decades numerous times, to excuse all sorts of political accommodations and compromises and sell outs.
P.S. I hope this clarification helps you.
No, no need to thank me. It is all part of the service.
Nevertheless Jenny, that fact that you can’t see the difference between the 80s Labour Party and the Green Party in this respect tells us much. I think it is probably part of the problem. You are simply incapable of acknowledging the skills the GP bring to the table that no-one else has.
Weka, You are trying to say I made a comparison, I never made.
I was criticising CV for expressing an old Rogernomics era mantra. This is nothing near comparing the Green Party to the ’80s Labour Party, and to say so is dishonest.
No. But the crude opportunist idea that lies behind this popular in-house Labour Party mantra. This very same phrase was used as an excuse by those opposed to Roger Douglas who kept their silence, afraid of losing their positions in the tent.
Helen Clark put it another way “I was not prepared to die in a ditch”.
Crude words for a crude political message.
Principle can be sacrificed for narrow self interest.
In talking of dying in a ditch, Clark was only talking metaphorically, of course. But I think her words and the cowardly and opportunist ideas behind them would ring hollow to those in previous generations who had been prepared to die in ditches for principle. Literally.
And you will apologise when? When the Greens sign up to be part of an administration that supports, Fracking, Deep Sea Oil Drilling and the leveling of the Denniston Plateau for its coal? Maybe? Possibly? I doubt it. Then you will argue that such a monumental sell out was necessary in the interests of pragmatism.
If the GP compromise their policy positions on those things, then I will probably resign my membership. However, I think what you are meaning is simply whether they go into coalition with a party that has different policy positions on those things (i.e. Labour). We already know that is what they intend.
What we don’t know is how they will manage their integrity in such a situation. I’ve said before that I think it is possible that the GP will eventually compromise too far. That is the nature of politics – those on the edge, as their ideas becomes popular and as they influence the mainstream thus become corrupted. The difference between you and I is that I just don’t see how that is anything other than inevitable. But it’s also a matter of timing – maybe they will do some good in the meantime. Maybe we will get really luck and NZ will wake the fuck up while the GP is in power and support them to do the right things.
I also think that the GP are doing the country a service. I don’t envy them and all respect to people who choose to go into that system with their eyes open. If they sit on the outside with their integrity intact they will simply watch as Labour/Nact destroy the country. You see black and white, I see shades of grey – they’ve made compromises so far that I’m reasonable comfortable with. I’m not sure where my limit is. I know that I will choose Labour/GP over NACT. That doesn’t exclude being critical of the GP if they compromise too far.
The other difference between you and I is that I don’t see how this will play out. I think the GP has the potential to change how MMP coalition govts are formed and work, and that alone is a good enough reason IMO for them to go with Labour. But I’m also pragmatic enough to know that I could be sorely disappointed. You on the other hand claim to see the future, the One and Only Future, are willing to damn the GP before they even have a chance at doing something good, and use every opportunity to bad mouth them. I don’t understand how that would work strategically. Are you trying to convince people to not vote for the GP?
I’m also curious who you will be giving your party vote to. Care to share that with us?
Another factor – Green Party members vote on major policy decisions. Jenny keeps moaning about Turei and Norman, but conveniently forgets that fact.
Is it is true? Have the Green Party membership voted for their party to become part of an administration that approves Deep Sea Oil Drilling, Fracking, Denniston, Coal Mining and BAU?
Was this issue visited during their conference?
Have the Green Party membership voted a blank cheque for their leadership to dispense with all “bottom lines” in coalition talks to get cabinet positions?
I will attempt to answer both your questions with one answer.
I will give my party vote to the Greens if they announce that their strategy will be to denounce and fight climate change at every opportunity.*
I will give my party vote to the Green Party if they announce that they will refuse to go into a coalition that will hog tie them to Business As Usual and increasing CO2 emmissions.
I will give my party vote to the Green Party if they return to the strategy pursued by Rod Donald, and Hone Harawira. To actively and openly campaign and put pressure on all the parties in parliament for what they want to achieve. The Green Party have shown that such a strategy can be very effective, even against tories. Rod Donald with his MMP campaign, effectively forced MMP on a right wing Bolger administration.
How more effective would such a campaign be if it was directed against a Labour administration, hell bent on Deep Sea Mining, fracking etc?
If you asked me, I would say, “Overwhelming”.
weka you tell me that the Green Party should give this away, for back room horse trading in principles for minor concessions?
Maybe, just as the Maori Party got Whanau Ora and the Alliance got Kiwi Bank. By agreeing to go into government with Labour, the Green Party might get tossed public health nurses in schools, and tighter legislation protecting water ways. But that will be it. And the cost will be high. Going from past examples it could mean the end of the Green Party as an independent political force in parliament. Which in my opinion will be a tragedy.
*(I will probably give my party vote to the Greens anyway, even though I think their current strategy will be a disaster. For two reasons. One, I still think that the Green Party remain one of the most left wing parties in parliament. And two, the Mana Party say that they will not campaigning for the party vote this time around. And instead will concentrate all their efforts on the Maori electoral seats. A political strategy I disagree with, because I think it will be a political dead end. Trapping Mana in silo politics and robbing them of general appeal.)
Right, so you’re going to party vote Green irrespective of what they do. Kind of like me.
The main difference between us that I can see is that you claim the GP has already made its decisions to compromise in ways that will spell doom and gloom. I just don’t see the evidence for that. It’s true they might, but they might actually surprise us too. So strategically, I think giving them support to do teh right thing is better than giving them shit and undermining them for something you personally suspect they might do but don’t really know and have no evidence for.
You still haven’t explained how your strategy of publicaly undermining the GP works towards your aims.
Go join the GP Jenny, get involved, go to meetings or join the online discussions they have and have some influence on what they do.
Not irrespective of what they might do, but in spite of, what they will do.
Probably like many others.
Yet you will vote either way. So why spend all this time denigrating them? You still haven’t told me what you hope to achieve by this tactic.
Also, why you don’t join, where you can have some influence.
I think we can tell what influence the Green Party members have from their conference. The only Green Party voices we were allowed to hear were of Turei and Norman.
Also because of the secrecy surrounding this conference. I also have not heard, (yet) if the members actually did get to discuss and vote on whether the leadership should go into the coalition talks with Labour with “No bottom lines for post-election negotiations”.
Which going on the evidence, we all must agree by now, is the Green Party officially stated position.
Oops. I done it again.
The Labour Party don’t just have different policy positions “on those things”, (Mining Denniston Deep Sea Oil Drilling, Fracking) as you politely put it, weka. They fully intend to go ahead with these things.
And by going into government with them, the Green Party agrees to let them do so unopposed. Are you suggesting that they are not?
weka, are you saying that the Greens will launch a campaign against government policies when they are part of that government and bound by collective cabinet responsibility?
So would you be happy if the GP went into govt and as part of that won an agreement from Labour to not mine Denniston?
Can one of the Labour people here tell us if that would be a hard thing for Labour to give up?
“And by going into government with them, the Green Party agrees to let them do so unopposed. Are you suggesting that they are not?”
What makes you think that the GP being outside of govt will make a blind bit of difference to Denniston, deep oil etc (as opposed to being inside)? Haven’t you been telling us for months now that the GP are no longer prioritising those things? You can’t have it both ways Jenny.
btw most of the action that’s passed my view about deep sea oil drilling has come from NGOs.
“weka, are you saying that the Greens will launch a campaign against government policies when they are part of that government and bound by collective cabinet responsibility?”
No, I’m saying that I don’t know how they will manage that. And neither do you.
Weka, YES. Yes, I would. This would be a major concession from Labour. And major blow to the fossil fuel industry. Stopping Denniston would be a step forward in the war against climate change in this country. I would be overjoyed. I would be stunned if the Greens could win such a concession from the Labour Party.
Yes, come on Labour Party people, tell us what you think.
How about you Colonial Viper? How about you R0B? Or maybe lprent? Would any of you like to have a go at answering weka’s question. Maybe even EDDIE might like to share her opinion with us?
(Many environmental NGOs and climate change activists regard the proposed Denniston Coal Mine to be the equivalent of New Zealand’s XL pipeline. According to these activists, just as stopping the XL pipeline would show that Obama is serious about climate change. Stopping the Denniston Open Cast Export Coal Mine would be a major symbolic sign to the world that New Zealanders take climate change seriously. For these people, stopping this coal mine would be a huge feather in the Green Party’s cap.)
I am informed by the success of Mana Party’s brilliant “Feed the Kids” campaign. I am informed by the amazing Green Party led campaign against partial asset sales.
But most of all I am informed by the 1984 Opposition Labour Party’s campaign against Nuclear Ship Visits. Labour despite being the minority Opposition party in an FPP environment. Through a powerful anti-nuclear Campaign waged both inside and outside of parliament, the Labour Party swayed two, yes TWO National government Ministers to cross the floor to vote to make New Zealand nuclear free. In an MMP environment, such a strategy would be even easier succeed. (for a number of reasons).
Weka as for the second part of this question, “(as opposed to being inside)?”
Inside the government, the Green MPs will be prevented by collective responsibility from waging a campaign or even putting up bills that oppose government policy.
In cabinet, even if the Greens get the proportional amount of cabinet ministers they seek, they will still be outvoted every single time. Yet will be shackled by the rules of cabinet responsibility to support policies that they fundamentally don’t agree with, (to the dismay of their supporters).
weka I don’t know what you mean about “both ways”. But Yes. I have been pointing out that the Green Party are not even giving equal billing to climate change, (let alone prioritising it). Instead as I have pointed out the Green Party have been actively playing down Climate Change.
But why are they doing this?
One of the main reasons, is that the Greens, positioning themselves to go into coalition with Labour, know that Labour don’t want climate change raised. And that demanding action over climate change issues will be a major impediment to a coalition agreement.
(Hence the need for a “no bottom lines” negotiating policy)
By foregoing coalition, the Greens will be freed up to talk about climate change openly again.
Indeed. And doesn’t that tell you something?
But I do know.
And, if you admit it to yourself, so do you. In a formal coalition with Labour the Green Party will be bound to obey the rules of collective cabinet responsibility. That is what a coalition agreement means. Beyond the concessions wrung out of Labour during the coalition talks, that is what you are stuck with. We have been informed that there are no bottom lines. If no bottom lines are agreed to, what possibly could a minority of Green Party Cabinet Ministers achieve against the wishes of a cabinet dominated by Labour Ministers? The answer is nothing.
P.S. I forgot to mention the successful Rod Donald led campaign waged by the Green Party that brought us MMP.
Another example of campaign waged by a party outside of government that made a major break through.
There are also some other examples I am aware of. But will have to do some more research on.
But weka I think you have enough to go on to get the idea.
Jenny.
Are there any bills that have been passed by this current government which member parties of the coalition opposed?
Collective resposibility is an issue, but it is subservient to coaltion agreements under MMP, I think you’ll find.
I hestitate to wade into this, because like others I find your position to be at best naive.
If you don’t like the idea of the green party being in government to your taste, then don’t vote for them. It’s as simple as that. I’m pretty sure that all prties in NZ seek to be part of government. There are other models available, but no party is following those models. If that’s a deal breaker for you, then that’s your decision.
People really can disagree with yuo about strategy. they really can! It doesn’t make then dishonest, or false or stupid, or anything else.
Again, f you don’t like the Greens, or trust themt o be what you want them to be, then don’t vote for them. Please. Find something to support that wont disappoint you.
Of course collective responsibility is subservient to coalition agreements.
This is why the Green Party announced position that there will be no bottom lines in negotiating a coalition agreement is so alarming.
If the Green Party don’t get agreement to stop Deep Sea Oil Drilling, or Fracking, or Denniston, in the coalition negotiations and still decide to proceed. Then they will be locked into supporting these policies in government. This will lead to clash with many of their supporters. Maybe even leading to bitter clashes inside their caucus between ministers in cabinet and ministers not in cabinet.
This has all happened before, here, and overseas. And should be no surprise to those who follow politics.
Sigh, telling lies again Jenny. Please don’t use quotation when you are not quoting someone.
I am unsure if it is the exact quote, but I remember Turei making that comment in this interview.
Unfortunately the video is not playing for me, so I can’t be sure. I think it was possibly the last thing said in the interview
Fatty, you can see what Norman said in the quote and link I gave above. I was just pointing out that Jenny was selectively quoting out of context to deliberately skew what the GP are doing, as part of her ongoing agenda to discredit them going into govt.
Yeah, but I think the quote “no bottom lines for post-election negotiations” was actually said by Turei in the interview I linked (or close to that).
I can’t be sure as I can’t get it to play.
You are right, the difference between you and me, is that where you see this process of corruption as inevitable. I don’t.
I do not agree, with you weka, that as the Green Party become more able to influence the mainstream, that they will “thus become corrupted”. And as you also say; “I just don’t see how that is anything other than inevitable.”
I don’t see this process of corruption as inevitable at all.
I think that I have put up a credible alternative strategy to avoid that time honoured end trajectory. But not only that, I think that it is a strategy more in line with the Green Party founders, Rod Donald and Jeanette Fitzsimmons strategic approach.
weka you support a strategic approach which you say will inevitably lead to corruption?
And you accuse me of discrediting the Green Party?
You are obviously not a Green Party member, or supporter at all.
I don’t know why I bother talking with you.
I suppose you will try and accuse me of quoting you out of context again.
Yes, in that interview, Turei says that “we don’t do bottom lines anymore, that is so 2005.”
But the whole focus by Turei throughout the interview is on negotiation, working to support other parties on points they agree with, and making clear when they disagree with other parties. She gave as an example that they have worked with the (always difficult) Winston Peters on the anti-asset sales petition, and the manufacturing inquiry. However, the main area where they disagree with Peters is on his racism and they wouldn’t support his position on immigration.
Also, in the interview, Turei refuses to commit to too much on the policies they will be promoting closer to the election. She gives three main areas that they consider important, ummm…. one on poverty, and maybe affordable housing, and the environment.
Basically, she gave the impression that the Greens have a new confidence that they are in a stronger political position than ever before, and that they will have the numbers and ability to promote some of their key policies/issues.
Elsewhere I have seen the Greens said at last weekend’s conference that they need to take steps to ensure they maintain independence in any progressive government. So, they are aware of the difficult tightrope they need to walk in such a government. I will wait for further information as to how this will play out before I criticise. It is a tricky position for any medium sized party to negotiate.
Thanks Karol. I’m looking forward to seeing what the GP comes up with next year as the election approaches.
Oh weka. Your facts and citations have no place here!
Com on QoT, surely you can do better than this.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/8755679/OECD-call-for-capital-gains-tax
In our business we come across people all the time, usually already wealthy, who do in fact do exactly this. Working for tax-free capital gain is what pretty much everyone does. It is only the hapless wage earner or salary earner who get consistently slapped with tax bills.
This is the biggest rort in our country. It is the biggest rip-off. Dole bludgers don’t even register on the scale required to measure this, THE GREAT RIP OFF.
Who does it? Pretty much all farmers do it. Pretty much all property investors do it. Many many small business owners do it. Most big businesses do it.
They all earn an income from their business sure, but either the main aim or a substantial part of their moeny-earning aim is the tax free money earned from an increase the the capital value of their business / property. The OECD even says this here … ” much of the income at top levels was in the form of capital gains, the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development said.”
New Zealand’s biggest con bar none.
And the workers are paying for it.
The bastards need calling on it.
The question must be asked:
What exactly will the Greens be gaining from cabinet positions?
Even if Russel Norman gets the number of cabinet posts, based on the Green party proportionality in the new government. (something Labour is resisting). Dr Norman and his colleagues will still be outvoted on every single cabinet decision, yet will be locked into supporting them, through “collective cabinet responsibility”?
Not only that, but the rest of the Green caucus, subject to their party whip will be prevented from putting up any bills that would oppose government policy. Effectively hand cuffing themselves.
The choice for the Greens is clear, become part of the solution, or part of the problem.
If any of what you say were to become the reality, your negativity would have us saddled permanently with a National Government,
The only other possible alternative is that the Green Party support a minority Labour Government on confidence and supply whilst trying to shoehorn Green Party policy onto a Labour Government agenda,
i know which of those alternatives i prefer, there are in Labour still a number of solidly left leaning MP’s who in a contest in Cabinet may well be swayed by the Green Party position,
What is your motivation vis a vis such attacks upon the Green Party ???, failed candidate???, National Party voter???, right wing of the Labour Party???…
Paid?
I agree with your assessment that there are a still a number of solidly left leaning MP’s.
The Green Party would have much more chance of success in lobbying these MPs to supporting Green Party legislation banning Deep Sea Oil Drilling for instance, if they were not in government, where bound by collective cabinet responsibility they would not be even able to put up any legislation opposing government policy.
Despite all the science screaming against it, Labour Party policy in government will be: support Deep Sea Oil Drilling, Increase Coal Mining, Allow Fracking (albeit with a little more regulation) Continue increasing Green House Gas Emissions. Are the Greens prepared to go along with all this, which they will have to, to achieve cabinet positions?
There are two strategies. One is pragmatic, the other is principled.
We must ask ourselves which strategy has proved more effective?
With their “Feed the Kids” campaign and only one MP, Mana has forced National to make concessions around child poverty.
Rod Donald with hardly any MPs and no money. Led and organised one of the greatest political campaigns in this country’s history to achieve MMP against powerful well funded establishment opposition.
This is called leadership. It doesn’t matter how big your party is, or how many MPs you have. Those who give the lead are the leaders.
What about those parties that went into coalition with bigger parties? Yes they got rewarded with trinkets, Whanau Ora for the Maori Party, and Kiwi Bank for the Alliance. But in return for keeping their cabinet positions, they got dragged behind the government’s chariot, (in the case of the Alliance, quite literally).
In my opinion the Greens would have their hands free to achieve more for the climate and the environment if they stayed out of coalition giving Labour confidence and supply but reserving the right to lobby the left leaning Labour MPs over the issues they care about.
“In my opinion the Greens would have their hands free to achieve more for the climate and the environment if they stayed out of coalition giving Labour confidence and supply but reserving the right to lobby the left leaning Labour MPs over the issues they care about.”
I kind of get what you are saying Jenny, but I don’t agree with your strategy. Better that the GP goes into coalition because that is what it has been working hard for all these years and so that is what they are geared up to do (if they don’t get into govt, some of the people in the GP with skills and experience will move on, which means the GP has to use more of its time/energy/resources finding replacements). There are things they can do from within govt that they simply cannot from the outside. Look at previous Labour led govts and what the GP has been able to achieve and what they haven’t.
If the GP get into a coalition govt, it leaves space for others to step up and do the kind of advocacy/lobbying that you refer to. Whether that is a group in parliament or outside, it will be way easier to make gains with the GP part of the govt than lobbying Labour alone.
There are several failures in this rationalistion for the strategy you support.
First it is an admittance that the Greens are to abandon a provenly effective strategy, for arguably less effective negotiations by the executive at the top table. A top down approach that effectively side lines the membership and hands power to the executive. An approach fraught with pitfalls.
Secondly who are these others you want to step up to take over this role that you admit that the Greens are abandoning?
And if they did step up will you vote for them instead of the Greens?
First it is an admittance that the Greens are to abandon a provenly effective strategy,
No, it’s not. Please show me the concrete gains that the GP have made whilst outside government.
for arguably less effective negotiations by the executive at the top table.
Where’s the argument?
A top down approach that effectively side lines the membership and hands power to the executive.
Citation needed for the membership being sidelined and power being placed solely in the hands of the executive.
An approach fraught with pitfalls.
Risks acknowledged, but better brains than you or I assess the risks as being worth the gains.
Secondly who are these others you want to step up to take over this role that you admit that the Greens are abandoning?
If the GP are in govt and Mana are outside, I expect as Mana grows as a party and movement that they will step into being the main party on the left that holds that ‘lobbying’/holding govt to account position. Of course that’s not all the GP did/does. They also have significant effect on thought in NZ around environmental issues. I expect Mana to step into that place for social justice issues. In terms of the environment I would see in the short and medium term that environmental NGOs will have more prominence and ability to work with govt because the GP are there.
I think you really fail to see that the GP have the potential to change how things are done. They already work significantly differently within the party than any other large party, and their approaches to being in govt will be different than anything we have seen before from small parties (not hard given our examples have mainly been Dunne, Peters and the MP).
And if they did step up will you vote for them instead of the Greens?
I vote strategically not ideologically, so it would really depend on what was going on that year.
It is because I believe that the Greens, do have the potential to change things. That I am distressed that they seem determined to follow a proven road to ruin.
They can’t say they haven’t been warned:
Talk about hubris.
weka you should also never forget the disaster that was the Alliance.
You assert that, “….their approaches to being in govt will be different than anything we have seen before”. I think you will be right, but not in the way you imagine.
weka you may have confidence in the “superiour brains” of the Green Party leaders to
shift the majority of Labour cabinet ministers. Their brains may be big, but their egos are bigger. Because no matter how superior their brains, the Green Party MPs will still be the minority in cabinet. And when their clever arguments fail to shift the majority of Labour cabinet ministers, they will be bound by cabinet responsibility into supporting whatever Labour decides.
Not so clever at all.
“It is because I believe that the Greens, do have the potential to change things. That I am distressed that they seem determined to follow a proven road to ruin.”
Are you being deliberately obtuse? I was talking about how parties form coalition. How can the GP makes changes to that process from the outside?
“weka you should also never forget the disaster that was the Alliance.”
Do I really need to spell out the differences between the Alliance and the GP? Seriously?
If you are right – that any ‘minority’ party is doomed to fail simply by being a minority party (irrespective of their skills) – then nothing will change. We will remain stuck in the neoliberal hell that is NACT/Labour swapping out every couple of terms. How on earth you see the GP influencing that from the outside is beyond me. And in the meantime Rome burns.
weka I have never said that. Nowhere near it. That is just your deliberate spin on what I have been saying.
The closest I have got to saying that. Is that the Green Party, (though it is not definite) are likely to fail, and fail spectacularly, if they go into coalition with Labour without securing any major concessions. (That is beyond minor concessions sought by the Greens over cleaner waterways and public health nurses in schools. Things Labour would probably agree to anyway, and would have no problem over).
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/8755641/Family-heads-to-US-for-dyslexia-support
Since I was educated for several years in Australia I can understand this. New Zealand has always had poor support for people with dyslexia and other learning disabilities. It forces families with disabled children (who have the means) to leave the country to support their children’s education.
Comment of the year on a blog has to go to Danyl McLaughlan’s comment at the sewer yesterday.
If you missed it Farrar did a typical dog whistle post hinting that a blogger, gasp, a blogger may have been on the parliamentary payroll. The hypocrisy obviously escaped him.
The swarm, after fed a hunk of red meat, started to throw around names and Danyl’s name was one of them.
His response needs to go down in the records of the blogosphere.
He replied:
1. It’s not me.
2. You witless imbeciles
3. I’m always (mildly) entertained by the sheep-like gullibility of the Kiwiblog comments hive-mind. You KNOW that everything the biased mainstream media prints is a lie, but if the government’s pollster publishes a vague, unsourced rumour on his blog you all start bleating in synchronised outrage.
4. Idiots.
5. But let’s assume it is true. There are only two parties so desperate they’d PAY a blogger. DPF wouldn’t betray ACT, so that leaves Mana. Hmmmm. Two candidates there.
6. And don’t you clowns have jobs? Pete George: 17,696 comments. What the hell is wrong with you?
7. Even if this person exists, their salary will only be a fraction of whatever DPF’s company earns from Parliamentary Services and other taxpayer-based revenues. You might want to think about THAT before you come on his blog and rant about the left sucking off the public teat.
8. Dicks.
The full majesty of the debate can be enjoyed at http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2013/06/a_question-10.html#comment-1152239
Lolz, that one has a certain way with words, i can’t quite muster the strength necessary to subject myself to the sewer for the full debate this morning…
You do realise that you are the same guy as those at Kiwiblog. The only diffence is you have less money, a propensity to wash less and a belief that others should provide you with hand outs.
lol, not much money at kiwiblog. Just wannabees like you.
If thinking that helps salve your natural pinko envy and gets you to sleep at night, then good on you.
(about me that is. you are probably right about the commenters on Kiwiblog, though they will still be richer than Bad)
Yeah monkey man, only the rich should have a voice aye.
Good man…now you are getting it.
Well you know what they say about paying peanuts.
But if you want a big monkey you’ve got to pay alot of peanuts.
A hand-out of peanuts is a hand-out no less.
Trouble is no-one really does want a big monkey though. Have a banana.
Just between us, I wanted to make sure that you knew that I am not really a monkey. (in the style of Sir Ian McKellen from his Extras cameo) You see, monkeys can’t actually use a computer nor could they organise their thoughts on a particular subject to write them down and certainly not in English or any other human tounge for that matter.
What I have done is assume the name of a famous monkey for the purpose of visiting this blog, I am not, in fact, the real King Kong. It’s called a nom de plume and it works like this;
me, me, me, me, log on to the Standard, king kong, king kong, king kong, log off the Standard, me, me,me.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2yrp6_ian-mckellen-on-extras_shortfilms
🙂 You do know that Kong, although a primate, was not a monkey ?
He was just a big ape who was kept isolated from the villagers, had a raft of personal issues, a very bad temper and a marked propensity for unnecessary destruction when cornered.
Oook…
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/news/8789894/Monkeys-at-typewriters-close-to-reproducing-Shakespeare.html
According to the infinite monkeys theorem, it is plausible for King Kong to actually be a primate, as postulated here. 🙂
A rose by any other name is still a rose..
you, king-kong, still an ape..
“You see, monkeys can’t actually use a computer nor could they organise their thoughts on a particular subject “
Well aware of that. I don’t see what it has to do with your output though KK.
Well that post blew up in DPF’s face. Mind you, ever since he lost weight his authoritarian arrogance has been off the hook, sort of like the way Kerre Woodham went all middle class ferral after she lost the podge and staggered her way through a marathon. His posts are increasingly hubristic and more that slightly foam flecked. God only knows what will happen when he is the first kid in the Beehive with Google glasses. He’ll probably try and sack John Key and declare himself emperor Napoleon III.
Nah, never going to happen now that Google Glass has banned all porn.
And Bomber’s response is worth reading too:
Declaration David Farrar’s Darth Vader helmet is too big for me
Goes on to demolish the KB assumption that he has some hidden left wing agenda. Bomber’s politics and his involvement in media etc are all very clear.
Farrar’s post was just an attempt to divert attention from the Lusk debacle.
*divert attention away from what the Lusk debacle suggests about Farrar’s work arrangements.
Was pretty odd that DPF was told not top speak at one of Lusk’s candidate school thingies lest people get the idea the schools were officially endorsed.
Why would party insiders of the like who would attend such a shindig assume that?
Very.
Te Hamua Nikora is not intimidated by shearers call to terrorise.
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1306/S00023/labour-admit-to-being-terrorists.htm
Shearers deliberate use of the word terrorise is a new low for him. He is the biggest liability there is to getting rid of the gnats. I spit on him for this attack.
The only people Shearer is terrorising are the rank and file members of the Labour Party and Labour MPs in marginal seats. Astoundingly bad choice of words to use in Tuhoe country.
Shearer is doing exactly what was expected by the NACT /CT……..driving voters from labour
Leaving aside the offensiveness, and sheer idiocy of his chosen words, can anyone imagine Shearer using them about fighting National? The two main ‘enemies’, he was talking about are the Green Party, and Te Mana. National, ACT and UF aren’t in the race. Seems the only thing that makes Shearer register a pulse is putting down the left.
How does Labour plan to organise their opponents? Did I miss something?? Seems a little patronising.
Just keep him talking and this will be a Green or Mana seat for shore.
Yep. Not only is it a disgraceful, offensive and stupid thing to say, it’s also a really shit bit of sentence construction.
Shearer GTFO. NZ can’t afford your non-stop fail. Just go, and it really doesn’t matter who replaces you either.
I mean it. Can anyone think of a Labour MP who could possibly, on their worst day, make a worse fist of the job than Shearer?
Mallard would be worse, but at least he can structure a sentence, however the sentences tend to put one to sleep so no I can’t think of a anyone worse.
Yeah Mallard would be bad, but only in ways that Shearer is also bad e.g:
1. Says horrible offensive things
2. Afraid to embrace the Greens, who are Labour’s only chance of forming a govt.
He would have these definite advantages over Shearer though:
1. Doesn’t much like the Nats or John Key.
2. Can say so without people wondering if he did.
3. Has an interest in politics.
4. Doesn’t lick himself in public.
4. Doesn’t lick himself in public.
Snorted IRL.
Mallard is foul and partially hopeless. Shearer is foul and totally hopeless, so I have to agree. Shearer is worse. Why the hell is he still there? He obviously doesn’t know how to win and seems to not even want to. If only the future employment of the front bench depended on him, I’d cheer him on, but we need even a slightly pink Labour firing to get the left in a position where anything can be attempted to roll back NAct legislation. I wish we didn’t. I wish we had a mass extra-parliamentary movement or a strong, fighting left party, but we don’t. Labour still holds a lot of our powder, but they’ve left it out in the rain.
I think we desperately need to get a pan-left movement going, and I will be very interested to see what will happen with the People’s Assembly in the UK. I am sure it can happen, I am just not sure how to get the ball rolling. My intuition is that it should begin on a convivial level, as that way it may have more chance of taking root, and leading to committed rather than wearily dutiful action.
Olywyn, I agree with you. I would like to see a pan-left group that encourages people to enrol for voting, gives people the information to make their own choices to vote for which ever of the left leaning parties suits them and exposes the lies and misinformation of the parties from the right. This type of group would be one for which I would be prepared to be a foot soldier.
It is the only way I can think of by which the left can regain some real influence. The People’s Assembly is to be launched in the UK on the 17th of June, and I will be interested to see how they organise themselves, and how transferable their moves are to our neck of the woods.
Good concept but I would suggest that the likely outcome is:
– Unmanageable
– Unfocused
– Undisciplined
– Unruly
– Unfunded
I think that enthusiasm and commitment would make up for the lack of funding to some degree at least, and I do not think you could even aim for wall-to-wall agreement. The point would be to get the left talking to each other and becoming capable of collective action, meaningful lobbying and so on. We are too dispersed, we lack a power base, and there must be a way of overcoming these problems. That they are problems shows in the fact that a few members of the Labour Party caucus can get together and decide to drive the party in whatever direction they see fit, with nothing strong enough coming from the left to give them pause.
Hi Olwyn, I appreciate your good will and you have quite accurately deduced a major problem that the left is not capable of mounting strong collective action and lobbying.
You are also spot on to talk about a “power base”. However, to my mind: quality of leadership, quantity of money and equivalent resources, labour strike power, capital strike power, voting power (electorally and within party organisations) and media/message distribution power are the only things which count on the playing field you are suggesting.
Everything else is a social, well-meaning and informative talk fest. The unpalatable truth is that the Left gave up most of its bases of power over the last 40 years. What good is a labour movement which cannot even organise a general strike.
But CV. When ordinary citizens pick up on something and run with it, then political parties- the orthodox SD left and their offshoots – as well as ‘traditional’ economic levers and any other ‘traditional’ power bases just don’t mean anything any more. They are insignificant.
Is that really true though? How many austerity budgets have massive riots and protests in Greece stopped? What are ordinary citizens going to do to counter the organisation resources networks followers and power of the establishment parties, especially if those parties have access to the levers of governmental power?
A citizenry rabble is no more an effective political force than a pile of timber is a house.
Is it really true, well….um, the collapse of the entire ‘Eastern Bloc’ looks to me suspiciously like one example of it being true.
You’ve got to admit that this threat to terrorise Labour’s by-election adversaries is incentive for; the Greens, Maori, and Mana; to both organise and mobilise – so that’ll be two of his objectives achieved. But there is an election within 18 months, and coalition with some (if not all) of these three parties is Labour’s main chance to get their bums back on the seats of government. Unless of course, Shearer’s plan is to go for broke and coalesce with National; which would be the end of Labour.
A week may be a long time in politics, but memories last longer than that.
Bit of a clanger that one.
Yes, like the way the Titanic ran into an iceberg made a ‘clang’ sound. Why would you want to “terrorise” political parties like Greens and Te Mana and even the Maori Party whom you may be needing as coalition partners shortly?
I get the feeling Dave has lost all confidence and has no idea what to say or do.
In this situation, someone must have handed him a bit of paper and said read this, unfortunately some one must have handed him the wrong bit of paper.
Bet he’s kicking himself in the nads on a daily basis for giving up his cushy UN job for this politics bull shit.
Worse decision ever.
You’re assuming that he has some self-awareness. He might be baffled, I’ll grant, but whether he knows why he’s doing so poorly, I doubt very much. Most likely he thinks that, as it is with every politician’s justification, it’s everyone else’s fault. The poor ignorant “followers” just don’t appreciate him.
Still, in another six months, we’ll see the error of our ways. You see, it’s not his fault, it’s ours.
You really have to start to wonder whether Lusk played a part in Shearer’s rise in politics!
Chris Slane spells it out: https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/431934_10151699599106449_2024615682_n.jpg
Yeah, saw that in the middle calss angst bulletin (Listener)….it is so good it should be on every Labour Party bill board.
Yep it should, but it will never happen while Labour is run by the centre-right.
No, but Olwyn’s idea of a pan-left organisation could do something with it.
Excellent. Thanks. Will most likely be useful in a future TS post.
here is a bigger version of the image http://www.listener.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Slane8.jpg
Excellent publicity and motivation for Mana, who strikingly now resemble the legendary voice of reason. All in all not bad for the Left in general – this is purely the MANGRL show, couldn’t have achieved better from a professional MANGR-management consultant. Serendipity Sue rides into the east.
Well done to Tuhoe and the Crown.
Hear, hear!
+1
John Minto has put a great article up about a visit he and some teachers and students made into the Urewera – and he also has talked about the patience and generosity of Tuhoe and put it all into perspective
http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2013/06/05/patience-and-generosity-mark-tuhoe-settlement/
How long before the “keep out” signs go up around TUNP?
I see the Herald is getting its oar into the upcoming by-election. Concerning the Mana candidate, who had a brain tumour a few years back, the headline and opening paragraph goes, “Candidate Kept Some Cancer Cash: A Mana Party candidate who kept $12,000 that had been given for his cancer treatment says he was unable to give the money back.”
If you read the whole article and the story is that people raised money for his treatment. As it happened he was able to get the operation done for free through the health service. So he gave the money that was raised to charity, except for $12,000 dollars, which the donors urged him to keep to ease his recovery. However, the Herald has framed things so that the first impression is that he pocketed the money.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10888445
Lowest of the low. Referring to the Herald of course.
The Maori Party may want to rethink this sort of statement.
Maori Party candidate Na Raihania, who also appeared on Native Affairs, said the questions about the fundraising “came as a big surprise”.
“I’m pretty sure the voters will be interested in that sort of thing,” he said.
“People expect a high level when you’re running for office and the people will judge where that is.”
Good response from Labour.
Isn’t the Herald such a wonderful paper?
So balanced in its reporting as ever….
Yes I was absolutely disgusted by that headline. What’s more those responsible for organising the money raising confirmed they urged him to keep it to help him post-recovery. It stands to reason he probably couldn’t work while under treatment, so the money would have helped him pay outstanding bills. Who are these inept, ignorant buffoons who call themselves journalists and reporters?
Hey clint i probably will
[lprent: Who are you talking to? Looks off-topic – moved to OpenMike. ]
LTMA done through parliament last night.
Anyone noticed the power shift it entails from Auckland Council to Government?
Silent, but a major.
Agreed. Henceforth Auckland’s big transport decisions will reflect what Central Government dictates, not what the representatives of Auckland’s ratepayers want.
Just another bit of local democratic control ebbing away …
Great post here
http://transportblog.co.nz/
Most of those affected are probably onto this, but I just went back over 5 years of returns with the tax department on the phone and have $1590 before interest in tax rebates due. You don’t have to pay those woohoo people – the tax dept will do it for free. Those of us on lower incomes haven’t had to fill in a return for many years, and many are likely to have been overpaying their tax.
I don’t recommend anyone even attempt to use the website though.
“have $1590 before interest in tax rebates due.”
AFAIK you don’t get paid interest on overdue tax refunds.
“I don’t recommend anyone even attempt to use the website though.”
It’s not impossible to use, but it is far more difficult and confusing than it should be. I really wonder who designed it.
The helpful woman at the IRD said she would calculate interest and add it to the total.
It’s not impossible to use.. Have you succeeded in navigating it Lanth? because it sure seemed imposssible to me. By design I’d say.
Lotta money. Unexpected.
Don’t know what sort of cut the woo-hoo people take.
Feeling pretty chuffed akshully:-)
“Have you succeeded in navigating it Lanth?”
Yes, several times over 3 years, for filing IR3s and looking at previous years.
A handful of noisy middle class “Chardonnay Environmentalists” convinced the Hamilton City Council to end fluoridation. Thousands of poor Hamilton children will now suffer, despite a scientific consensus and overwhelming majority of Hamiltonians supporting fluoridation. Shame.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/waikato-times/news/8758073/Fluoride-to-be-removed-from-Hamiltons-water-supply
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szL2Ofzvpcs
no matter how diluted, do you really want this in your drinking water?
I’d rather public policy be based on hard science than youtube videos, frankly.
Like when they thought giving thalidomide to pregnant women was a good idea (to use an extreme example). Or when they thought giving menopausal women hormones was a good idea until they realised that it led to an increase in breast cancer (to give a less extreme but more recent example). Or when they thought that screening for all cancers was a good idea until they realised that it’s only useful to screen for some cancers because the others give lots of false positives and lead to lots of unnecessary interventions. Seriously, if you think that science on its own protects people, you don’t know much about how often science gets it wrong.
The evidence supporting water fluoridation comprensive and conclusive. No comparison to some 1950s morning sickness pill, HRT or screening.
“The evidence supporting water fluoridation comprensive and conclusive.”
[citation needed]
You seem to not be understanding that the issue isn’t about whether fluoridation works, it’s about the risks and side effects and whether it’s ethical to medicate people without their consent.
Further, your statemtent “The evidence supporting [insert medication of choice] comprensive and conclusive.” is exactly the kind of statement made from science until scientists discover that they are wrong including for the HRT recommendations that I referred to. The scientific method in its pure form is admirable. How science plays out in the real world is full of flaws and is why important decisions shouldn’t be left up to scientists alone.
Absolutely. The compulsory, non-optional, mass medication of people needs a waaaaay higher standard of evidence in terms of safety and effectiveness than any other ordinary situation.
Absolutely, and it is.
I tried to not get into a hyperlink war, but alas one has to fight back so here’s my 2 cents.
The ministry of health is a good start,
http://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/preventative-health-wellness/fluoridation/water-fluoridation
The British Medical Journal published a comprehensive review,
http://www.bmj.com/content/321/7265/855.full
Water Fluoridation is also effective in adults too,
http://jdr.sagepub.com/content/86/5/410.short
Incidentally, does the Labour party have a policy on this? As a former Dental Nurse Annette King would probably have some strong views!
Orthodox sources supporting the orthodoxy. Shocking, I say.
Well we can expect the MoH to be promoting the orthodoxy.
The third link is useless because the full version is behind a pay wall.
The BMJ link is interesting.
Conclusions
Given the level of interest surrounding the issue of public water fluoridation, it is surprising to find that little high quality research has been undertaken. As such, this review should provide both researchers and commissioners of research with an overview of the methodological limitations of previous research.
The evidence of a reduction in caries should be considered together with the increased prevalence of dental fluorosis. No clear evidence of other potential negative effects was found. This evidence on positive and negative effects needs to be considered along with the ethical, environmental, ecological, financial, and legal issues that surround any decisions about water fluoridation. Any future research into the safety and efficacy of water fluoridation should be carried out with appropriate methodology to improve the quality of the existing evidence base.
What is already known on this topic
Dental caries cause morbidity and suffering and incur costs
Artificial water fluoridation has been used as a community intervention to reduce the prevalence of dental caries for decades in some communities, but its use remains controversial
What this study adds
A systematic review of water fluoridation reveals that the quality of the evidence is low
Overall, reductions in the incidence of caries were found, but they were smaller than previously reported
The prevalence of fluorosis (mottled teeth) is highly associated with the concentration of fluoride in drinking water
An association of water fluoride with other adverse effects was not found
A few observations. The review’s purpose was to look at efficacy, not risk. While some of the studies included were analysed for risk, it wasn’t the primary focus of the work.
The conclusion of no association of fluoride with adverse effects combined with the poor quality of the studies included (and perhaps the fact that the study was commissioned by the UK MoH) suggest that further investigation is warranted (and no evidence of association with adverse effects doesn’t necessarily equate to proof that there are no adverse effects).
Of the few risks found, they include neurological. That with the Harvard study suggests further investigation is warranted (which is what the Harvard team are suggesting).
weka. New research suggests that humans today are 10-20 IQ points less intelligent than people in the late 1800’s.
We are measurably and significantly dumber and slower than our forefathers. I wonder why. I wouldn’t want to posit any “conspiracy theories” now.
Interesting. There could be many reasons for that though (and I’m not sure how useful IQ testing is for understanding humans). I’m assuming the research was done somewhere like the US rather than cross culturally? Got some links I can have a look at? (haven’t had much luck with google).
“I’d rather public policy be based on hard science than youtube videos, frankly.”
Overall, I believe we all would, but even youtube is useful at times, such as in that news broadcast when it plainly illustrated how dangerous the chemicals are.
It is a toxic industrial waste. It eats concrete tamati.
I have heard all the discussions over the years from both sides, yet I walk into a store and see fast growing acres of soda drinks and junkfoods that systematically destroy more teeth than any amount of this toxin could [arguably] hope to protect. I do not see the pro-flouridation people protesting any of it. A bullet proof vest is not necessary if you take away the bullets.
“I’d rather public policy be based on hard science than youtube videos, frankly.”
How about the Harvard School of Public Health then?
July 25, 2012 — For years health experts have been unable to agree on whether fluoride in the drinking water may be toxic to the developing human brain. Extremely high levels of fluoride are known to cause neurotoxicity in adults, and negative impacts on memory and learning have been reported in rodent studies, but little is known about the substance’s impact on children’s neurodevelopment. In a meta-analysis, researchers from Harvard School of Public Health (HSPH) and China Medical University in Shenyang for the first time combined 27 studies and found strong indications that fluoride may adversely affect cognitive development in children. Based on the findings, the authors say that this risk should not be ignored, and that more research on fluoride’s impact on the developing brain is warranted.
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/features/fluoride-childrens-health-grandjean-choi/
Thanks for bringing this to our attention.
A straw man argument.
That was a study of naturally occuring fluoride present at far higher levels than used in public health water fluoridation.
Straw Man – Tamati, stop being foolish, go do some reading, you are way off track on this one!
The unnatural toxic by-product created by the toxic pollution of the fertilizer and mining industries, banned in most of the western world, even banned in china, yet they sell it to those nations, states, cities, foolish enough to PAY, to take it off their hands, saving them millions in the cost of the disposal.
Are you suggesting that its ok to put the toxic by-product in water, yet the testing of the naturally occurring levels of testing, was a, *straw man
I’m well read on public health thank you very much.
And no, water fluoridation is not some conspiracy to dispose of toxic waste.
You didn’t answer the question, Tamati. Your obviously a proponent of mass medication, regardless if you could identify where Water Care Services, for example, source the product they dump into Aucklands water supply, or not!
Perhaps take up the conversation people such as…
If the Scandinavians don’t use it, that in itself would be sufficient evidence for me, they know better than the halfwits of the anglo-file western world, by very long way!
LOL
except when it comes to sexual assault complaints, obviously /sarc
where is the fluoride sourced from?
no idea – Trade Aid?
“A straw man argument.”
I know, silly old Harvard for publishing that. Even worse, they published this statement from the study authors –
–These results do not allow us to make any judgment regarding possible levels of risk at levels of exposure typical for water fluoridation in the U.S. On the other hand, neither can it be concluded that no risk is present. We therefore recommend further research to clarify what role fluoride exposure levels may play in possible adverse effects on brain development, so that future risk assessments can properly take into regard this possible hazard.
That is responsible science.
Following on from that, the public have a role to play in how public health policy is formed.
btw, it wasn’t a single study. It was a meta study done by the Harvard School of Public Health and the China Medical University, analysing 27 individual studies.
Good luck with banning soft drinks.
How about we do something we can actually achieve and will actually make a difference to people’s lives?
Clearly the substances will have different effect at vastly different concentrations. Dihydrogen monoxide kills at higher enough concentrations, should we ban that from our water supply.
Can you not agree to the hypothesis that as a general dietary article removing softdrinks would be good for children’s health? That aside, at no point did I say I want to ban softdrinks. I mentioned they are right there on the shelf, doing damage one hyper-caloried litre of refined sugars at a time. I may have distractedly pointed at the selective hypocrisy of harm reduction protocols in modern society. That does not mean I want to ban it. I did say it would be better if the bullets were taken away and perhaps that is a tad severe, as I am more naturally inclined to simply point the gun away from the person.
btw- ever hook anything on that joke’s dull barb ? 😎
Absolutely removing soft drinks would be a great for children’s health. I think you’ll find many of those advocating for Fluoridation would also strongly support restrictions on access to soft drinks.
You agree that choice is important and I would guess you see that through an incredibly simple adjustment to existing commercial structures there could be varied choices as to how fluoridated water can be delivered to the populace. Fluoridated toothpaste is a far more reliable and direct method of delivery but off the shelf bottled water with all the toxins you can handle also seems a logical product. Might be a real goldmine for you, seeing as there are apparently so many people interested in ingesting a poison that in its raw state dissolves concrete.
Have you ever looked at the links of fluoride to retardation of brain development and associated difficulties? If you choose to medicate you and yours with industrial waste products that is your decision. Have you fully considered others also want the right to make that decision about what medication they ingest. There are few topics in this world more important, more essential for a society to evaluate, than citizens being medicated against their will. I do hope you reconsider your willingness to submit.
banning soft drinks is quite achievable, if it was deemed to be desirable. There would of course be a cost in political capital.
And if we didn’t fluoridate water there would be more attention given to the causes of childhood tooth decay and alternate public health responses.
yup,
there might even be crazy responses like giving kids an occasional apple instead of chocolate jelly donut sandwiches
Shit, we might even look at the connections between poverty, nutrition and dental health.
Funny you should say that. Those middle class “chardonnay” activists brought a bunch of scientists with them to make their case.
If you’re so keen on fluoride you’ll find it in every toothpaste and most of those “poor” children will use it no matter whether they want it or not cause it is really hard to find a tooth paste without the crap.
Scientific consensus?? Surely you jest?
Might pay to delve into topical versus ingested fluoride, then have a look at blind tests conducted elsewhere, then look at the comparison between Sodium Fluoride and Calcium Fluoride and associated test results.. Once you have managed all of that, I’d dearly welcome you coming back and still extolling the virtues of forced medication via your drinking water…
Meanwhile I guess I’m off to enjoy my Chardonnay and gaze lovingly over my garden. Oh whoops, I’m actually working – nice failed stereotype on your part…
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10888445
– Sounds like hes ready to join parliament
How about reading before trolling? No need to exert yourself, just a slight movement of finger to see previous posts.
He’s a wingnut.
According to the Science, they’re not that intelligent…
http://www.livescience.com/18132-intelligence-social-conservatism-racism.html
I don’t feel like reading that study tonight but would point out two things. One is that conservative values are part of why humans have been successful (if you do what already works, your tribe succeeds and reproduces), so it’s likely that our best bet is a mix of liberal and conservative values (Am not talking politics here, nor equating conservative with neoliberal).
The other point is that prejudice against conservatives is hardly a solution to the prejudicial nature of right wingers. And it’s not like the left don’t have problems of their own on this score.
Actually I would think that a species that can repeat successful behaviour,
plus be flexible and innovative enough to adapt to new situations/environments,
proactively take measures to deal with some predictable dangers,
and be innovative in adapting their environment to maximise their potential, would be more likely to be “successful” evolutionary-wise.
Also, reproduction over generations is generally more beneficial to a community if they have sex with people outside their own group in order to diversify their genes/DNA. That requires that a community is open to practices of different kinds of communities.
Yes Karol. I think my point was that humans needed conservative values as well as progressive/adaptive ones, so we should be wary of developing prejudices against conservatism.
We could argue that an excess of innovative genes got us into our current mess though 😉 (all the way from the invention of agriculture through to AGW).
yes, weka, I was thinking something similar about the down-side of innovation as I was writing the above comment.
You speak of “species”, but for humans you need to speak of “tribes” or “traditions”.
Many rural conservatives do all of this automatically. You can snow these people in on their farm for a week without town power, town water or town supplies, and they wouldn’t give a damn.
Liberal left wing townies – freezing and near starving after 2 days.
A gene pool of 50,000 people is ample. Has real advantage been shown for a larger number than that? Not sure.
Evolutionary success focuses at a species level. Tribal and traditional differences are an example of the diverse ways the human species is able to adapt to the circumstances they are born into. They are learned differences and, in principle, can be unlearned. though individuals differ as to how much they can adapt to something different from their up-bringing.
These days your characterisation might be true of me as a left wing townie, CV. But when I grew up in Auckland, there were far less mod cons and we often “made do” Summer holidays were spent camping with few mod cons – kerosene lamps, long drop loo, no hot water, no baths or showers, only the radio to listen to at night.
In my younger days I spent several months hitching and camping in Europe, in fairly cold weather (sometimes snow) always sleeping out doors on the hard ground.
It doesn’t take that long to get used to changed circumstances, at least for some of us.
In the “old” days, people mended their own clothes (and handed them down), grew a large proportion of their own vegetables, were quite happy to light and heat one room in a house. Advertising and societal pressures have deliberately taught people to want and expect more. How many people can even plan meals ahead of time taking things out of the freezer, without a microwave?
Well, our species has only been around for a couple of hundred thousand years. From a species perspective I think it’s very early days to determine what a successful strategy is and what it is not.
Personally I’ll be very impressed if our current civilisation and economic arrangements lasts another 75 years (nb civilisation, not species).
Well, up til now our species has been very successful in evolutionary terms. However, it looks like we have been too “successful,” and,as you say, CV, our civilisation hangs on the brink.
It sometimes fascinates me to ponder that only a couple of generations back, my ancestors were living without electricity or the kind of indoor plumbing we are used to. Most of my grandparents and all my great grandparents grew up in the likes of Scotland and Northern Ireland without electricity, motor cars etc. I marvel at how they must have coped with winters, whether from working or professional classes.
In that short a time, we have had an escalation in technologies, and, here we are now hanging on the brink.
A gene pool of 50,000 people is ample.
Hmmm, that’s approximately the size of the surviving Colonial fleet.
That said, the extreme lack of genetic diversity in our species today has suggested to some that after the eruption of the Toba supervolcano, the ancestors of H sap. were reduced to only a couple of thousand breeding pairs or less.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toba_supervolcano
Don’t they seem to spend all of their time trying to screw each other up with or without the connivance of assorted outsiders? Could just be the “reporting” but 50k seems to be somewhat too social to me. Give me a nice anonymous million or so.. And perhaps 50k is a bit small bearing in mind how many back-stabbed dead gene-bearers are around.
A sperm/egg bank is probably a better bet.
Well well well, isn’t that a coincidence 😈
“- Sounds like he’s ready to join parliament”
by being forthright and direct in his dealings with the fund raisers, the media and the general public?
yeah, that makes a real nice change from what we usually get !
Oh you meant the other thing . . . how The Herald tried to twist a story to make him appear shifty and corrupt and not to be trusted?
Do you have an account at the hatchery ? or just buy a dozen at a time?
Anti-Flouride Mana voters out in force today I see. The lefts very own one percenters.
And as for the Shearer press release, some of you people need to lighten up a bit. It was just a badly constructed sentence. Some of you remind me of item 101 on the site “Stuff White people like”
http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/2008/05/28/101-being-offended/
And yet again – another misguided generalisation.
“It was just a badly constructed sentence”
Bullshit – he deliberately used the word – a bit like “lighten up” – very droll.
Yeah, there’s shitty grammar and then there’s deliberately using the word “terrorise” in a post-9/11 world.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10888543
let’s look past the fact the Government have sat on this report for over six months, or that Serco have once again shown how poorly they do their very well paid job, it is about helping prisoners’ literacy we are told.
If a prisoner wants to lift their literacy skills it is really simple
Upon entering Prison they sit a basic literacy/numeracy test, before coming up for parole they sit another test, if they have not improved, they do not get parole and continue to serve their sentence.
I posit the NZ Prisoners who most need help with literacy and numeracy sit in a cell for 20+ hours a day watching TV. That sure as hell does nothing to help rehabilitate our Prison population, but a few more books and parole based enticement couldn’t hurt.
The real question that should be asked and addressed is how the hell these people and there is a lot of them got to be of an age to be sent to prison while having never learned to read nor write,
Some of the most intelligent people i have ever met was whilst a guest of Her Majesty,(spit), in arts as in many other areas a lot of the crims are highly skilled people, at the other end of the spectrum is an up to 20% of the jail population who are illiterate…
I can’t see that working when Serco makes a profit from keeping people locked up. Irrespective of what a prisoner wants, they get what Serco allows them. You’re proposing to make their freedom dependent on something which may be out of their control.
I agree, bad12. How the hell do so many get to adulthood without the very basics for participation in society? The literacy and numeracy need to be there before Serco get their hands on these young people.
I guess I’m preaching to the choir here, but very little of the problem is caused by poor teaching as such. Quite a few of my friends and family have taught or still are teaching in low decile schools. The problems are enormous. With dedicated staff and intelligent remedial programmes many of these schools can and do turn things around to some extent for the majority of the kids passing through them. However it is a simple truth that a relatively small number of kids are practically unteachable. For some that is because they have the bad luck to be born into homes that are so dysfunctional that the by the time they get to school the children are deeply disturbed, antisocial, lack all self discipline and are years behind in their developmental milestones. A small percentage (about 5%) of children in State schools have an IQ of below 75. For obvious reasons the numbers are higher in low decile schools and lower in high decile schools. Without wanting to get into long debates about the measurability of various types of intelligence, this is pretty low mental functioning in anyone’s book. It is not that uncommon for the family background and the mental functioning to have a degree of correlation. In other words the social dysfunction, bad attitude, language problems and basic intelligence all compound each other. It’s also not surprising to find a correlation with lots of other unflattering statistics within this cohort. Trying to achieve functional literacy and numeracy for this relatively small group is extraordinarily difficult.
http://www.stats.govt.nz/browse_for_stats/government_finance/central_government/nz-in-the-oecd/education.aspx
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bell_Curve
Personally I’m dying to see what charter schools make of kids like the ones I’ve described above. I suspect they will avoid them like the plague in the same way that private hospitals avoid hard cases that suck up huge resources and give little return.
Then when they get older we “decent folk” in near gladiatorial style smash them for being unable to “engage” in and for our “decent” society. The society devoted to making the rich richer, richer, richer. Scandalous !
Buy a untested car lately? That hasn’t even done a round of road testing? Would you buy that car?
Well Key believes his ministers don’t have any responsibiity when it comes to doing even the basics of due diligence, and even sits through the Novapay minister declare all she had to do was take the advice of the geeks. No. She knows full well the Novapay system had no preliminarily testing in the field, that it went live. Well its understandable, working with those who would have to work with the system, those evil educational establishments, the evil teacher union, would make the Nats look weak.
And its not the first time for Key to mess up on process, on ministers assuming they can sit on their hands, land sales anyone, mines anyone, its looks like Key just doesn’t get, or do, good governance.
Just not good enough for a minister whose minstry has just messed up to the tune of millions, or death, can just rub their hands and say all they had to do was listen to advice.
aerobubble Well thinking about buying untested cars. Govt has just changed the regime that ensured we got regular wofs. Frankly they don’t care whether things actually work right, are running correctly, it’s the appearance of doing something, the setting up, the excitement, the spreading of largesse and getting some oneself that counts.
FYI
______________________________________________________________________________
“URGENT ‘Open Letter’ / OIA request to the Chair of the Social Services Select Committee – National Party MP Peseta Lotu-Iiga Sam”
5 June 2013
“URGENT ‘Open Letter’ / OIA request to the Chair of the Social Services Select Committee – National Party MP Peseta Lotu-Iiga Sam”
Dear Sam,
I am scheduled to address the Social Services Select Committee, of which you are Chair, on Monday 10 June 2013, from 4.10pm – 4.20pm at the hearings on the ‘Housing Accords and Special Housing Areas Bill’, which are to be held at the Ellerslie Novotel Hotel.
I have also just been requested to give evidence in support of my following petition, from 4.20pm – 4.30pm at the same hearing, which I have agreed to do.
http://www.parliament.nz/en-NZ/PB/Presented/Petitions/5/0/5/50DBHOH_PET3157_1-Petition-of-Penelope-Mary-Bright-requesting-that.htm
Petition of Penelope Mary Bright
Requesting that Parliament declines to proceed with the Housing Accords and Special Housing Areas Bill until the lawfulness of the reliance of Auckland Council on the New Zealand Department of Statistics”high”population growth projections, instead of their “medium” population growth projections for the Auckland Spatial Plan, has been properly and independently investigated, taking into consideration that both Auckland Transport and Watercare Services Ltd, have relied upon “medium” population growth projections for their infrastructural asset management plans.
Petition number: 2011/64
Presented by: Holly Walker
Date presented: 30 May 2013
Referred to: Social Services Committee
It concerns me that the submissions for this arguably very significant Bill, which potentially affects so many people, were closed after a mere 13 days.
Please be reminded of your stated reasons, as outlined in the following Hansard record:
http://www.parliament.nz/en-NZ/PB/Business/QOA/5/7/8/50HansQ_20130530_00001001-1-Housing-Accords-and-Special-Housing-Areas.htm
1. Housing Accords and Special Housing Areas Bill—Closing Date for Submissions
[Sitting date: 30 May 2013. Volume:690;Page:19. Text is subject to correction.]
1. HOLLY WALKER (Green) to the Chairperson of the Social Services Committee: When do submissions to the Social Services Committee on the Housing Accords and Special Housing Areas Bill close?
PESETA SAM LOTU-IIGA (Chairperson of the Social Services Committee) :Submissions on this bill close today: Thursday, 30 May 2013.
……………………………………………………………………….
Peseta SAM LOTU-IIGA: After the bill was referred to our committee on the night of Budget night, I made—in my own decision—the decision to set a 13-day period for submissions.
………………………………………………………………………….
Mr SPEAKER: I am going to ask the member Holly Walker to ask the question again, and let us hope that on this occasion we get a simple answer to a simple question.
Holly Walker: Did he consult with the Minister of Housing or his staff before making the decision to close submissions on this date?
Peseta SAM LOTU-IIGA: The bill was referred on the night of Budget night, 16 May, and I did not consult with the Minister. I made this decision on my own.
Mr SPEAKER: Thank you for that answer.
______________________________________________________________________________
Please provide the following information which confirms whether, in making your (arguably arbitrary) decision to close submissions for the above-mentioned ‘Housing Accords and Special Housing Areas Bill’, you were advised by, consulted with or lobbied by any of the following parties:
1) Simon Lusk.
2) Any person(s) associated with, in any way, the Tamaki Redevelopment Company Ltd, in particular – the Chair of the Board – Mr Martin Udale.
3) Any member(s) of, or associated with in any way, the NZ Property Council.
4) Any member(s) of, or associated with in any way, the Committee for Auckland.
5) Any member(s) of, or associated with in any way, the Auckland Council
(either elected representatives or staff).
6) Any Board member(s) of, staff, or anyone associated with in any way, the Auckland Council Property Ltd Council Controlled Organisation (CCO).
7) Any person(s) associated with, in any way, the NZ Treasury.
8) Any person(s) associated with, in any way, the MBIE.
9) Any person(s) associated with the Salvation Army.
10) Any person(s) associated with the Auckland City Mission.
11) Any person(s) associated with the NZ Housing Foundation.
Under the URGENCY provisions of the OIA, given that I wish to use any information I may gather from this OIA reply when I present to the Social Services Select Committee on Monday 10 June 2013, can you please provide this information before 5pm, Friday 7 June 2013.
_____________________________________________________________________________
BACKGROUND INFORMATION:
Maiden Speech National Party MP Peseta Lotu-Iiga Sam
http://www.parliament.nz/en-NZ/PB/Debates/Debates/Speeches/6/6/5/49HansS_20081209_00000294-Lotu-Iiga-Peseta-Sam-Address-in-Reply.htm
I stand before members today because of the hard work of my campaign team under the disciplined leadership of Mark Thomas, the shrewd counsel of Simon Lusk, and the industry of Josh Beddell, and with the support of many, many supporters, many of whom are here today to be with us. Finally, to the National Party president Judy Kirk, regional manager Alastair Bell, and their respective teams, I say thank you for putting your confidence and trust in me as a candidate in this year’s general election.
http://www.lotu-iiga.com/index.php?/categories/8-Press-Release/P3.html
Maungakiekie MP welcomes significant milestone for Tamaki
Maungakiekie MP, Peseta Sam Lotu-Iiga, welcomes the first neighbourhood-based renewal programme in New Zealand that was launched today at the opening of the Tamaki Redevelopment Company in Glen Innes.
“This is exciting news for Tamaki. The Tamaki Redevelopment Company (TRC) is exactly what is needed to bring together the local community, Government and Council agencies, businesses, social services and public and private sector investment,” says Mr Lotu-Iiga.
The new company will ensure a coordinated approach to create measurable improvements across four key components over time.
A social component will support Tamaki residents and their families to get the skills, knowledge and employment opportunities they need. An economic component will strengthen the local economy, creating new jobs and business opportunities.
A housing component will optimise land use and existing housing stock, including progressing private housing development and delivering better social housing options in Tamaki.
Meanwhile, a spatial component will create safe and connected neighbourhoods and spaces that support the social and economic development of Tamaki and its community.
“Ultimately, the TRC will bring all the current and future initiatives and projects together into a single strategic framework and will lead a single voice that will deliver Tamaki’s transformation,” says Mr Lotu-Iiga.
“I look forward to seeing the vision of a thriving and self-reliant Tamaki turn into a reality.
______________________________________________________________________________
Kind regards,
Penny Bright
‘Anti-corruption /anti-privatisation’ campaigner.
2013 Auckland Mayoral candidate
Can someone please moderate these ramblings. A link or two would be fine.
He’s back!
http://aaronwgilmore.wordpress.com/
Cheers, I have bookmarked that link for entertainment purposes.
It seems the Erdogan purge of senior officers missed a few.
google translation:
In this situation, members of the military hospital suddenly began to distribute face masks to protesters. It was the second time that members of the military, although only indirectly and passively helped the protesters. In the night from Friday to Saturday soldiers had apparently paramedics gives access to injured near a barracks.
This raises the question as to whose side the military would actually stand if the conflict continues to escalate. The Turkish police is now regarded as political through and through penetrated by the ruling AKP party, especially where there are also many supporters of the Islamic Gulen Movement have the say. This may explain the extraordinary brutality of the police action against the protesters since Friday: Because if Erdogan should fall, it would certainly lead to a wave of purges in the ranks of the police.
Turkey has played a significant role in the manipulation of Islamic extremists by the US. The Gulen movement played a role in this but Gulen is now based in Pennsylvania and his movement is banned in several Asian countries. The most recent example of Turkish involvement was Benghazi, in which a Turkish diplomat left before the attacks on the consulate and the CIA annex began. The attacks seem to have been due to a failed arms deal between the CIA an Syrian rebels.
“Fethullah Gulen became a green card holder despite serious opposition from FBI and from Homeland Security Department. Former CIA officers (formally and informally) such as Graham Fuller and Morton Abromovitz were some of the prominent references in Gulen’s green card application.” ~ Foreign Policy Journal
http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/2011/01/06/turkish-intel-chief-exposes-cia-operations-via-islamic-group-in-central-asia/
Colin MacDonald Government head IT overseer. Says that it isn’t a matter of money that there is such a low standard of security management in govt entities. Everyone is always busy it’s a matter of priorities, not that managers are overworked (and departments are understaffed with new aspirational programs being added say quarterly, with no extra time allocated to honing them to fit needs and demand, and then maintaining them.)
I think something is revealed by this. He sounds Scottish when he speaks, and is it that our cultural cringe means that we want to employ someone who sounds more knowledgable because he/she have come from overseas, and government hopes, be able to prevaricate in a foreign dialect.
Shearer’s comments “unfortunate and insensitive” … according to Labour’s opponents?
No. That description comes from Labour’s own candidate in the Ikaroa-Rawhiti by-election:
http://www.gisborneherald.co.nz/article/?id=32731
So, never mind floating voters, or Labour voters, or even Labour members. David Shearer is actually managing to annoy Labour candidates.
(But we mustn’t say so, united front, he’ll be fine if we all pretend, blah blah …)