Open mike 05/10/2010

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, October 5th, 2010 - 98 comments
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Open mike is your post.

It’s open for discussing topics of interest, making announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

Comment on whatever takes your fancy.

The usual good behaviour rules apply (see the link to Policy in the banner).

Step right up to the mike…

98 comments on “Open mike 05/10/2010”

  1. Joe Bloggs 1

    Union officials found to be lying

    How surprising – not.

    In the past two weeks we’ve had the ridiculous situation where a foreign union bullies the local film industry and NZ Actors Equity members, demanding that the industry reduce Actor’s equity working conditions – reducing pay rates from present individual contract levels back to basic collective union rates.

    Now we find the Post Primary Teachers’ Association president Kate Gainsford has been lying to the public – claiming that teachers deserve a bigger pay rise than police because nobody is queuing up to be a teacher.

    Turns out that most schools of education have had at least double the number of applicants for the spaces available. This year, Auckland University had 905 applications for the 340 places available. Victoria University had 266 applicants for 157 places – about 25 per cent more than usual – and Auckland University of Technology could take only about half the applicants for its 33 places. Waikato University turned away about half the applicants for its 180 places and Otago has reported the largest number of applicants in its history.

    Nobody queuing up to be a teacher? Liars, damned liars and unionists, huh?

    [lprent: Do not over use bold which I have removed, that is the moderators prerogative. You also haven’t linked to your source. I also suspect that much of this comment is quoted verbatium.

    These are all traits I associate with trolling. I’m not in favor of trolls. This is the nice warning. ]

    • IrishBill 1.1

      Dullard.

    • Kaplan 1.2

      I can see how that keeps you awake at nights…
      Perhaps if you used that time to do some honest research you’d realise there is more to both issues than your slanted summary.

    • Draco T Bastard 1.3

      What an idiot. How many queueing up for secondary teaching roles? And, more importantly, how many queueing up to train to be teachers?

      I suspect that the latter is in the near vicinity of zero but you, of course, don’t want to acknowledge that. You just want to accuse a unionist of lying.

    • hateatea 1.4

      Anyone can apply to do a BEd without intending to go teaching now that Colleges of Education are all incorporated into Universities as I understand it.

      Of course, places are limited now by the funding caps placed on the training providors by, who else, the current Government.

    • BLiP 1.5

      Here’s were the cretin stole the bulk of his comment.

  2. KJT 2

    Who do you want for Teachers?
    Those who do it because they cannot get a job elsewhere.
    Or those who would do it if they did not have to take such a steep pay cut from their present or other options for an occupation.

  3. prism 3

    RadioNZ commentator on free market attempt for Pacific said that NZ hadn’t much to offer because we flung our doors open to free trade in the 1980/90s.

    The diminishing of NZ as a good place to live and work for ordinary citizens continues after the Right brought in unrealistic, unpragmatic but blindly ideological and draconian powers after Muldoon who finished his time disgracefully in delaying handing over power to Labour. We started down the road most trampled by bigger countries.

    • KJT 3.1

      “Follow the example of successful countries, like the Scandinavian ones, instead of slavishly following States like the US and UK which are essentially failed States.”

      http://kjt-kt.blogspot.com/2010/10/prescription-for-new-zealand.html

      • prism 3.1.1

        Looked at your blogspot KJT. I like what Desiderata says too. Looking at the paragraph that mentioned Switzerland there was an overprint with some numbers and points in yellow over the white. What were they relating to? I couldn’t read your comments below them.

        • KJT 3.1.1.1

          Couldn’t see that when I looked. Maybe a bug with blogger.

          “Follow Switzerland and make New Zealand’s Government arrangements
          a democracy instead of a pretend one.
          We should control our country, not, 122 self appointed incompetents, the OECD or IMF, or a bunch of failed idealisations from a few true believers in neo-liberalism.

          Every country believes they are going to pay back debt by out exporting the others. Not possible.

          Accept that taxes are the price of having an educated, housed and healthy labour force, adequate infrastructure, a local market, social cohesion and protection, protection from unprincipled competition and from crime and invasion.”

          Desiderata. The whole poem is here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desiderata

      • Draco T Bastard 3.1.2

        Those who object to taxes are really just saying they want to free load off the rest of us as I doubt they would like having to provide all of the above privately.

        Actually, we know for a fact that they won’t provide them at all. It’s been the story of the Industrial Age. Infrastructure is provided by the state by “borrowing” from those who will directly benefit the most from the infrastructure and then they will complain about paying taxes.

        • I believe it was Issac Newton who said ‘ That the price of high taxes is a decent society” Interestingly the countries with the highest taxes also have the highest standard of living.

  4. Treasurys report to the Working group review to “reduce long-term benefit dependency” offers the following

    “- reclassifying all 144,000 people on sickness and invalid benefits into three categories based on their ability to work, shifting those with some capacity to work in the near future on to the unemployment benefit.”
    – requiring sole parents to look for paid work before their youngest children turn 6, and contracting out most welfare services to private companies or charities.”

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10678225

    Isn’t this slum clearing without the international sporting event?

    • millsy 4.1

      Cool, so if we get laid off we are going to have to go begging to the local church for our benefit. Kinda like they did in 1876.

      Lindsay Mitchell is going to be loving this. Her dream of single mothers having to live in their cars and under bridges is one more step to reality.

      Wefare reform 2010 style is more about pushing down wages and conditions (and saving money so the rich can have tax cuts) than about helping anyone out of poverty.

      • Vicky32 4.1.1

        “Her dream of single mothers having to live in their cars and under bridges is one more step to reality.”
        If they even have cars! (I didn’t when I was a single mother..)

  5. prism 5

    Here’s an idea for individual sporting contests. I heard this a.m. about NZ swimmer missing out on bronze by one hundredth of a second, might have been three hund. Miniscule anyway. What would be fairer would be to have First, Second and Third Cohorts. There would be a time elapse allocated for each winning position, first could be those within one-three hundredth of leader, second would be after that same timing, and third similar.

    If there is one thing that sports people love it is discussion on the finer points of the events. This would add so much interest both before and after, being an extra factor. It would be fairer to the top sportspeople who are only denied a place by the merest fraction of time, yet they are right up there with the best. They deserve to be recognised with a fairer, and more appropriate system.

  6. john 6

    The American NeoLiberal Disaster Zone (The one our governments follows stupidly and pathetically in its for-the -rich shaft the serfs policies-privatisation amongst others) is heading for class warfare and revolution: The American serfs are going to wake up you bet!

    http://www.marketwatch.com/story/america-on-the-brink-of-a-second-revolution-2010-09-28?pagenumber=1

    • anarcho 6.1

      Christ mate, your link to an ultra-right-wing opinion piece was pretty scary! “We need another Reagan”…

      But what really irked was the idea that the tea party mobs were “anarchist” because they loathed both parties and harked for a revolution akin to their original one. Mega fail 🙂

      Yes there may be a revolution, but boy will it be mega authoritarian – a long way from the aspirations of anarchists!

      • millsy 6.1.1

        Reagan?

        He would be waaaaaay too left for these guys….

      • Colonial Viper 6.1.2

        Only thing they liked about Reagan was that he was easily controllable by the banks and corporates. He started out that way and became more and more so. Corporate tax and regulations cuts galore.

      • NickS 6.1.3

        What’s amusing is that he somehow thinks the tea-baggers are not only capable of creating a revolution, but also completely independent of the GOP, when given the stupidity/ignorance of tea-baggers it’s not exactly difficult for experienced spin doctors to manipulate.

        And the author of that piece appears to be a complete hack, who makes money off morons with the usual stupid self-help finance (become a millionaire!) type books.

        Also, here’s a gonzo take on the tea-baggers:
        http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/17390/210904

      • Bored 6.1.4

        Anarcho, I have not read BUT there are some pretty scary reasons why all sorts of crap will break out due to the financial problems the world faces, and USA in particular. I dont think we will be thinking distinct left / right lines when this occurs.

        Imagine this scenario, (figures from http://www.radio4all.net/index.php/program/44211 )…..
        World GDP US$55 trillion….derivatives and securitised debt US$1600 trillion…in other words the financial system have created obligations to repay credit backed up by claims to more obligations to repay more credit. About 30 years worth of GDP. Each obligation has been added to a Ponzi heap, but there is not enough cash to pay even a fraction, so its all going to collapse.

        Which raises a couple of scenarios..the absolute mayhem as everybody holding an obligation tries to seek payment from more people holding obligations down the chain, nobody having money…and the resultant violence OR we adopt the wisdom of Solon, forgive all debts and get on with building a proper system. Fat chance of the latter.

        • Draco T Bastard 6.1.4.1

          Fat chance of the latter.

          But so very necessary.

          • KJT 6.1.4.1.1

            Has actually happened. Debt’s incurred by some third world countries had to be written off because the previous rulers took all the money to Switzerland and there was no chance of repayment.

            • nzfp 6.1.4.1.1.1

              It’s called Odious Debt

              In international law, odious debt is a legal theory which holds that the national debt incurred by a regime for purposes that do not serve the best interests of the nation, such as wars of aggression, should not be enforceable. Such debts are thus considered by this doctrine to be personal debts of the regime that incurred them and not debts of the state. In some respects, the concept is analogous to the invalidity of contracts signed under coercion.

              P.S. I hate quoting Wikipedia.

              • Draco T Bastard

                Testing has shown that it’s just as accurate as Encyclopaedia Britannica. That was 5 years ago and I can’t see it getting any worse since. If anything, it’s probably got better.

  7. ianmac 7

    Last night on Campbell Live the topic was a very elegant fund raising dinner for Canterbury being held in Auckland, and switching to a very small street barbecue arranged by Christchurch street earthquake victims. At the flash one Bob Parker, again unable to debate the mayorship, but well able to spare the time to front up with flashing teeth at the dinner and rub shoulders with John Key. Be seen. At the street one by contrast, were the stoic uncomplaining ones who were eating sausages. At the dinner, corporate diners living it up large on whitebait patties and good wine, no doubt paid for by corporate funds. Back at the street two little girls were going from portaloo to portaloo and grading them on a 5 star basis.
    I found the contrast of the rich and famous with the ordinary folk in Christchurch to be very very sad. Parker/Key opportunism at its worst.

    • Bored 7.1

      I hope that this program will help any voters left to decide to gt rid of Parker. He should have been with the people, not the glutteratti. As an aside his wife’s dress and lipstick was also a shocker, the camera had her in background most of the time flouncing around with Shonkey and Bronnie. Please oh please Lord, give us some substance over appearance.

      • Lats 7.1.1

        So was Anderton at the street bbq with the people?

        I didn’t see the programme in question, but perhaps Parker can do more good schmoozing with the rich and idle and trying to get funds out of them, than by hanging around on a street corner.

        • Bored 7.1.1.1

          Who knows or cares where Anderton was, he is not the mayor. The need and the needy people were at the bbq, Parker was at the nob party where the glutteratti had found another reason to be and be seen, enough said. Now what was the cause? Cant remember but the canapes were splendid, can we get the caterer in for the 50th? Oh, better invite Key and get the cameras there.

          • Lats 7.1.1.1.1

            Well, Anderton is the other main contender for the mayoralty. He runs on a platform of being the peoples candidate, so one would have thought he would have been showing due solidarity with the common man/woman by chowing down on a sausage with the plebs.

            If the dinner was a fundraiser for Canterbury (as stated by ianmac above) then personally I think it was the right place for Parker to be. His presence may well have raised a few extra thousands of dollars, which may or may not have been raised had he been absent. Certainly he would do more overall good for the people being at such an event than had he attended a streetside bbq.

            • Bored 7.1.1.1.1.1

              We will have to agree to differ (big time).

              • Lats

                Fair enough. I can see that the bbq would be an appropriate event for Parker to attend in the absence of fundraising events for sure. As I said, I personally think his time is better spent lobbying for assistance from the well-heeled. No doubt he feels more comfortable in their presence too, I’m not sufficiently silly that I don’t accept that this is also a factor.

            • grumpy 7.1.1.1.1.2

              Bet Jim would have been there if the BBQ was in Ireland, probably would have taken his missus and staff too!

              • Colonial Viper

                Realistiaclly, you’re talking about either Rodney Hide or Chris Carter. Not sure which.

  8. prism 8

    NACT are probably following the USA which gives two years welfare help I think. After that you can go through rubbish bins if you can’t get some job where you work at the employer’s will for survival wages at any hour. There are places where it is cheap to live and apparently people denied reasonable resources and hope are gravitating to these places in large numbers. The new immigration laws in Arizona are no doubt partly to control growing numbers of these. NZ’s South Island west coast has been a cheap place to live, but because of state help for those struggling for a job at living wages, a vitality is found there and only a few strugglers sink into hopelessness.

    No doubt the NACTs would be happy to go the route of say India where there is terrific poverty and everyone knows and accepts it. In NZ the government is cracking down but is unlikely to follow through and assist as needed and change the laws we have as a developed country. What if rag and rubbish picking communities want to live and work at the city dump for instance as they have in India. Our OSH regulations would have to be changed so people at the bottom level could fully mine available resources to survive. And the prisons expanded, and mental hospitals reinstated – needed as we lose our ability to live in reality with the myth of being a humane, prosperous country and our minds and lives break down.

  9. True Blue 9

    Thank you Mr Key, just got $35.00 extra in the hand this week, time to increase my Kiwisaver contributions.

    • Colonial Viper 9.1

      Yeah, I guess your kiwisaver account will be $35 p.w. better off just as our national debt goes up by an extra $35 p.w.

      Geeee I wonder if there is a connection.

  10. prism 10

    The IHC is up for hundreds of millions because of an Employment Court ruling which baffles me. If someone is employed to actively work a night shift as a carer or nurse and has to stay awake to attend to sick patients then they should be paid in the normal way. If however you are on site in case you are needed and expect to be sleeping overnight, that is a different matter. It is not the same as being on call when you are at home, because you are in your workplace, but still you are not working throughout the night and will be asleep most of the time.

    If your assistance is needed then there should be a payment for activity, but getting minimum wages for the whole time doesn’t seem right. Fairer would be a basic payment for overnight, transport allowance needed for safety and allowing for poor public transport options, and extra when service is required during the night. Carers haven’t been getting much up till now but this decision is unreasonable. It also underlines the difficulty of running a caring system properly in the community. At one time people would have been living in a large community establishment where staff would be on hand in shifts to provide services over 24 hours and the cost per resident relatively small.

    • hateatea 10.1

      I had the opportubity to work with some carers paid by IDEA Services under the ‘sleep over’ rules. Every time they were ‘woken’ to deal with our client, they had to record what time they were ‘awakened’, why and for how long, then taken off the clock again.

      The reality was that all of us slept poorly, if at all, that we were woken often, had to clean faeces off walls, sit up with said client in an attempt to get them settled, etc. I found their level and method of payment unworthy of the level of commitment to, and care of, the client.

      While there may be some who consistently are able to sleep through the night because their charges do, that is far from the norm as I understand.

      I was employed by someone else and under different conditions BTW, so there is no gain for me under the Employment Court’s decision.

      Most caregivers do a sterling job, should be paid for every hour they are ‘on the job’ and need to be accorded much more respect than they are currently given

      • Bored 10.1.1

        Hateatea and Prism,

        I have people work for me 24*7 on call,awaiting events to happen (which may not occur but I need them there in case of emergencies). They have to put their normal life on hold to be available, and willing to respond. For this I pay an availability allowance, plus penal rates for any time worked. Seems fair to me.

        Regardless of what the Court has ruled, I would say this of the IHC carers, (and about Rest Home workers as well). These are low paid workers whose value is grossly under rated by society, their role is more akin to angels compared to any corporate types I work with. Perhaps the Court respected that in their decision, who knows?

    • Vicky32 10.2

      “It is not the same as being on call when you are at home, because you are in your workplace, but still you are not working throughout the night and will be asleep most of the time.”
      I wish! I have done this – worked doing sleepovers for IHC, in a home for children, and I spent the night I ought to have spent ‘sleeping’, sorting out bedrooms, shifting the kids around to prevent one boy bullying everyone else in the room, and in the end had to have a 10 year old boy in bed with me, as there was no other way to arrange them.

      ” At one time people would have been living in a large community establishment where staff would be on hand in shifts to provide services over 24 hours and the cost per resident relatively small.”
      I worked in those ‘large community establishments’ back in the 80s, when Roger Kerr (yes, the very same man) was the head of IHC. There were no staff on shifts for the 24 hours – there was one person doing a sleepover (me), and if a fire had broken out, God only knows how I would have managed evacuating 40 people, some in wheelchairs, deaf, blind etc.. Then two staff came on at 07.00 and 1 came on about at 15.00.. It was as bad as it sounds, and it’s no better now!
      Vicky

  11. NickS 11

    Beholdth what a tax system based only on sales taxes reaps:
    http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/tax-the-filthy-rich/Content?oid=4837455

    What’s so funny about it is the whinging from those against the income tax proposal, which at the top rate is under 5% of income, and the project state budget increase would allow for a reversal to numerous health and education cuts made in the past five years.

    This also makes me wish Labour would show some guts and make an election promise to reduce GST back to 12.5%, as for those of us who are poor, that 2.5% increase does hit home quite acutely.

    • Bored 11.1

      These pricks (Nact) dont give monkeys about “afordability”. Its no use having $5 left for that last vital item you need when it now costs $5.12, you cant buy it anymore. So you go without. Thats the reality when your income cant meet the cost of basics, and that is what a large chunk of people face. You are right, Labour need to show some guts.

      • NickS 11.1.1

        Or raise the minimum wage up to $15/hr, which I’ve found over the last couple of months is now the usual lower pay rate on student job search jobs, even for low skilled labouring.

      • Bob Stanforth 11.1.2

        How do you define vital?

        Consider.

        The penetration of Sky TV is highest in poorer communities across NZ. The penetration of water cooler sales to private residences is highest in South Auckland, across the whole of NZ. Advertisers for alcohol target those communities. Sales and consumption of cigarettes are also highest etc etc. Oh, and Sky City actively targets South and West Auckland communities. Facts, all of them.

        None of those are ‘vital’ – or are they. Should we be asking first what else the money has gone on, prior to asking whether the last $5 is enough? Isnt it OK to ask that if its OK to point out or ask why there isnt enough left, particularly when its often the taxpayer who is paying?

        • Bored 11.1.2.1

          As in whats needed for a child, doctors visit etc etc etc, I am not talking luxuries and anybody who really believes that the dole will cover luxuries and the rent needs their head read.

          • Bob Stanforth 11.1.2.1.1

            But…

            The numbers would say otherwise, as noted above. Sky TV, casino, alcohol, cigarettes, water coolers – vital? I think not. But people who are on taxpayer derived payments still do it.

            Or am I wrong?

            • Draco T Bastard 11.1.2.1.1.1

              You haven’t posted any proof (All you’ve done is assert that all people in poorer communities are on the dole) so I’d take a guess and say that you’re wrong.

              • Bob Stanforth

                LOL, thats right, refute, you’re right, what was I thinking.

                The marketing departments of every single one of those company’s just wet themselves laughing at you.

                So, um , why just defend blindly, isn’t what I said worthy of debate?

                Oh, and I asserted nothing of the sort, that’s your assumption, and like most, its fundamentally flawed, but nice try. Do keep up.

                • Draco T Bastard

                  The penetration of Sky TV is highest in poorer communities across NZ.
                  …particularly when its often the taxpayer who is paying?

                  That’s an assertion and you made it.

        • Vicky32 11.1.2.2

          I recall a few years back (more than a few, actually) Jenny Shipley saying that if she had her druthers, she would change the rules so that *no* beneficiary was allowed to spend their money on anything other than food or rent! No church donations, nothing else.
          Plus which, what makes you think that *everyone* in South Auckland is poor? If you see a SKY TV dish on a house, do you assume that a beneficiary lives there? Absurd…

          • Bob Stanforth 11.1.2.2.1

            And Shipley deserved to be strung up for such a stupid comment.

            And no, no I dont make that fatally flawed assumption. Why, do you?

            But consider. Penetration of Sky TV in the entire South Auckland region is slightly above the national average for urban areas, at 37%. Lets assume (yes, I know, potentially hoist on my own petard) that smoking and alcohol consumption is even half of the national average (smoking, 1 in 5) so 1 in 10, or 10%.

            Thats a whole lot of people spending money on things that by any stretch aren’t vital.

            But please fell free to correct me if Im wrong. Or hurl mindless abuse if you can hide your own easter eggs. 🙂

            • Bob Stanforth 11.1.2.2.1.1

              (tumbleweed rolls through)
              Gee its quiet around here when you post facts that are ‘negative to the cause’.

              Or is everyone deciding how to spin electoral fraud as a good thing?

              • mcflock

                nah, just trying to figure out what planet you’re on.

              • lprent

                Ah – such a plaintive whimper…

                You didn’t make a point in your comments in this sub-thread. You merely stated some suppositions without providing any backing – as Draco pointed out to you

                You haven’t posted any proof (All you’ve done is assert that all people in poorer communities are on the dole) so I’d take a guess and say that you’re wrong.

                You ignored that and wandered off into the fantasy of your own thought patterns

                You didn’t provide some substance for your assertions which is what was asked for. Around here that will lead almost everyone to start ignoring your argument as being frivolous. Essentially you’re trying to get a pointless discussion based on vapor.

                It is a style of ‘debate’ beloved by people who aren’t up to dealing with reality, incapable of offering substantive points that they can backup, and in love with the sight of their own egos. Most people around here will ignore that type of written masturbation as not being worth debating. We’ve seen it all before, in my case for about 30 years of wannabees in electronic debates. You either grow out of it and learn how to argue with other people, or leave to avoid intrusions of other peoples thoughts into your echo chamber reality.

                I’d suggest that if you want to start a discussion then it’d pay to drag something out from the dept of stats to sustain your assertions.

          • hateatea 11.1.2.2.2

            If you see a Sky dish that only indicates that at some time there may have been Sky at the house OR, in our area, that you have Freeview in order to be able to receive television reception at all.

            Likewise, it is perfectly possible for there to be wage earners living in the same residence as beneficiaries.

            Whilst it may be seen as a luxury to have Sky, for many beneficiaries, it provides entertainment at a more affordable level than an outing to the movies etc, especially when you factor in transport as well as admission. We all choose our priorities in life. Mine are books and the internet. That others make other choices means just that. They may not be healthy choices, they may not be choices that many of us might make in similar circumstances but they are all things that are legal.

            I do get slightly annoyed when people make so many judgmental assumptions about beneficiaries choices.

            BTW – Am I correct that all / most Aucklanders pay for their water anyway?

            • Draco T Bastard 11.1.2.2.2.1

              All of Auckland pays for their water. It seems to have followed the neo-liberal line from Rogernomics a bit more closely than the rest of the country.

              • hateatea

                If Auckland tap water tastes like most of the reticulated water around the country I would consider buying in water too, in fact, in the interests of peoples health, isn’t drinking natural water a good thing?

                • Draco T Bastard

                  Auckland pays for it’s reticulated water. It’s not paid for through rates but as a separate charge.

                  And what’s “natural water”? The stuff with or without bugs? The stuff with or without dirt? The stuff with or without fluoride?

  12. Carol 12

    Breaking news on midday Nat Rad news: 2 arrests in Sth Auckland electoral fraud, at least one with Labour Party links. More arrests to follow. Shame on anyone who tries to illegally rig an election.

    Also Henry has been suspended (from TV NZ, I think):
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/tv/4197611/Henry-suspended-after-G-G-comments

  13. Tigger 13

    Lost amongst the Paul Henry news – it appears we’re about sink into another recession…
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/4198050/Business-confidence-dips-sharply

    Gee, thanks National…

    • Bored 13.1

      Tigger,

      Have a read of 10.1.1 to see the real reason why. What has happened is that the reinflation of the debt bubble last year (after it burst) with promisary notes from you and me (tax payers world wide) has ground to a halt. There is just not enough real income being generated to prop up the expected “interest” on the whole Ponzi fiasco. So its down down down a deflationay road, business confidence leading the way.

      Interestingly last time round “business” dropped the matra of no market intervention by government and held out their paws in hope of salvation, then once the cash was delivered went back to the mantra of government out. Now they are failing again, watch how fast they will call for “help” (i.e you and me to allow them to create credit backed by you and me).

      So to sum up, we are in the proverbial, batten down the hatches because this one will play out for the next decade minimum. And it will reach bottom at an equivalent of below where it started back in the early 80s. Set your house price by it.

      • nzfp 13.1.1

        Hey Bored

        So to sum up, we are in the proverbial, batten down the hatches because this one will play out for the next decade minimum

        There’s nothing being done that can’t be undone, fixed or made right.

        We could follow the suggestions of Wladimir Woytinsky the

        … head of the ADGB’s statistical department. Woytinsky had come to Germany in 1922 from Russia, seeking asylum from the Communist regime. The son of a Jewish professor of mathematics in St. Petersburg, he had actively participated in the anti-tsarist revolution of 1905, but in 1917 had joined the resistance against Lenin’s seizure of power. He took over as head of the ADGB’s statistical department in 1929

        Woytinsky proposed the plan of Public Works and Credit as a Public Utility that Hitler enacted after he came to power with the Nazis. Woytinsky’s plan was to counter the deflation policy of the Brüning government which Woytinsky correctly identified would inevitably only worsen the economic crisis of the 1930’s depression.

        It should be noted that the austerity measures proposed in Europe (and protested against in Spain, France, Greece etc…) as well as the Libertarian live within your means doctrine is almost identical to the plan implemented by Germany’s Brüning government.

        The point I’m making here is that Michael Joseph Savage implemented the public works and public credit doctrine proposed by Woytinsky and many other social democratic economists – including C. H. Douglas and Social Credit.

        • Bored 13.1.1.1

          When I say batten down the hatches I was talking about exposure to the market as such, I totally agree with the concept of public works, read a bit about Woytinsky and Brunning years back and have to say that the achievement in Germany may have happened despite the Nazis. It also happened in an economy that used a fraction of the energy we use today and consumed a lot less per capita.

          The secondary issue I did not mention was energy crisis and depletion, these are the ideal areas for public works rejigging our crucial infrastructure for a lower energy future economy. Keeping it away from the private sector, and finance in particular is a key neccessity.

    • Draco T Bastard 13.2

      To be honest, I don’t think National or Labour could have done anything to prevent another fall. For NACT, though, it’s in their best interests to encourage another as it will drive down wages increasing poverty and state dependence which will boost private profits. Labour would, hopefully, have done something to ease the poverty and actually to reduce state dependence.

      But, no matter what, the second dip was coming as the necessary deleveraging of the massive debt hadn’t occurred due to the massive bailouts of the banks. If they’d been allowed to fail it’s entirely possible that the economy would have recovered. Propping them up prevented the recovery – made a lot of rich people far richer courtesy of the taxpayers though which seems to be the reason why the bailouts happened.

      EDIT:
      Bernard Hickey’s top ten has some interesting articles linked about this.

      • KJT 13.2.1

        Probably not, even though National and Labour managed to cause a recession in the 80’s and 90’s when the rest of the world was OK.

      • Nick C 13.2.2

        So you think that National want the economy to fail/ go into ressession in order to boost corporate profits..

        What do you actually think a ressession consists of? I.e. what typically happens to companies to make a ressession a ressession?

        • BLiP 13.2.2.1

          What do you actually think a ressession consists of? I.e. what typically happens to companies to make a ressession a ressession?

          They die off, reducing competition in the market place and flooding the employment market with cheap labour, while the remaining companies are are sold off cheap to foreign holdings as John Key’s bankster mates happily clip the ticket along the way. WIN-WIN as far as National Ltd™ is concerned.

        • Draco T Bastard 13.2.2.2

          Yes. The poor getting poorer and the rich making out like the bandits that they are.

  14. Tigger 14

    Didn’t see this commented on previously – Finlayson has concluded that removing tobacco displays is a breach of the Bill of Rights…
    http://www.parliament.nz/en-NZ/PB/Presented/Papers/1/3/8/49DBHOH_PAP20482_1-Attorney-General-Report-of-the-under-the-New-Zealand.htm

    Let me guess – they’ll use this to sink any changes to displays while still ignoring the advice on removing the right to vote from prisoners.

  15. NickS 15

    Heh, while the recession may not be bad enough for ducks in city parks to end up in the pot, copper, even from the earthing wires for power poles, is becoming even more of a target:
    http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/police-cracking-down-copper-thieves-2-30-video-3817607

    Along with railway tracks.

    Yes, railway tracks.

  16. Logie97 16

    There goes my tax break…

    On the way to work, I dropped into my favourite bakery and bought my lunch sandwich. I’m a creature of habit. Usually the same filling every day and these sandwiches are second to none.

    Last week they were $3.00.
    This week $3.20.
    An increase on the old price of 6.67 per cent (or 6.25 per cent depending on your accountant.)

    Now 2.5 percent of $3.00 is 7.5 cents. The new price for the sandwich should be $3.10 (rounded) – clearly the shop does not want to be bothered with handling those little bronze 10 cent coins.

    Of course the original $3.00 already had a 12.5% GST component. The new price should have been calculated at 15% on the ex GST cost of the sandwich.

    The sandwich has a GST on GST component.

    Extrapolate that on the millions of transactions around the country and Bill English has gathered enough out of us to cover his rort on his Karori house expenses double-dip.

    • freedom 16.1

      “Of course the original $3.00 already had a 12.5% GST component. The new price should have been calculated at 15% on the ex GST cost of the sandwich.”

      i got a very sore head last week trying to explain that very scenario to some people who were talking down the ways business will abuse the G.S.T. rise

      Bottom line though is that any one can charge anything they want, they are not required to say how much of the price is a profit share so any increase above the G.S.T increase can simply be the business ‘co-incidentally’ increasing their profit share and they have not done anything wrong.

      ahh capitalism, so much potential, so few values

      • Vicky32 16.1.1

        Listening right now to an item on Clive (TV3) about just that – Consumer’s ‘Wall of Shame’, and that’s the excuse every business is using for price rises of up to 15%. “It’s all just a coincidence, our other costs happen to have gone up, we haven’t had a price rise for years”…
        Though I note that the dairies and little businesses run by immigrants in my suburb have *not* put their prices up all that much at all!
        Deb

  17. Joe Bloggs 17

    Hmmmm I see Andrew Little has acknowledged that the enrolment irregularities in Papatoetoe can be linked back to the Labour party. Par for the course…

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10678309

    • lprent 17.1

      Member (most politically active are ‘linked’ with a party)? Previously a member? Volunteer? Pamphlet deliverer?

      FFS: Roger Douglas has had previous ‘links’ with the Labour Party. So does Clint Heine.

      Links is a hell of broad term. You’re drawing a hell of long bow. Has anyone ever told you that you frequently look like a total munter with these rather idiotic and largely meaningless associations that your ‘evidence’ doesn’t support? The journos will probably publish as much as they are able to – which will not be much due to the restrictions now that they have been charged.

      Now you know why I warned you about having to put in links this morning. This is exactly this type of moronic 1+1 = 3 style of thinking that you specialize in and can be refuted with a 2 minute read of your source docs..

      • Bed Rater 17.1.1

        Labour Candidate, it seems.

      • hateatea 17.1.2

        I see that Whaleoil has already named a name. Whether it is based on fact or not is more than I can say.

        • lprent 17.1.2.1

          It is usually more than Cameron can usually say either. I’ve noticed how inaccurate he has been in the past ‘confidently’ asserting who authors here are.

          The most notable idiocy was his characterization of r0b as Rob Salmond based a similarity between pseudonym and first name…

      • Joe Bloggs 17.1.3

        @Lprent So many question marks. So much angst. So little to do with reality. Have I struck a raw nerve?

        Links is indeed a hell of a broad term – covers a multitude of relationships from distant and casual through to memberships and representation.

        Before you launch any more of the verbal histrionics, Munt me old mate, perhaps you should check out who gets named … a 2 minute read between the lines should suffice

      • Joe Bloggs 17.1.4

        Previously a member? Volunteer? Pamphlet deliverer?

        I meant to say, that really is very funny – I like your sense of humour

  18. joe90 18

    A brilliant cartoon remix:Donald Duck Meets Glenn Beck.

    No doubt Disney will pull it sooner rather than later.

  19. Draco T Bastard 19

    I/S has an article up about the government deporting NZers.

    • hateatea 19.1

      If the parents are deported and the children are left behind, does CYF have to provide financial support for the children?

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