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Open mike 05/12/2013

Written By: - Date published: 6:54 am, December 5th, 2013 - 229 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:


Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step right up to the mike …

229 comments on “Open mike 05/12/2013 ”

  1. an idea for a political ‘joke’..

    ..hire an astronauts’ suit..

    ..and take a selfie standing in front of colon craigs’ office..

    ..holding a sign saying:..

    ..’yes i did..!’..

    phillip ure..

  2. amirite 2

    “Let the little kids suffer” is Nats’ mantra:


    Where are your ghost jobs, John?

  3. vto 3

    Silly old dearie Rosemary McLeod needs to get off her sexist ageist and racist ranting. She doesn’t even seem to realise that her bigotry and stereotyping is exposing her lack of insight and wisdom. This morning in the Press she has the second column in two weeks which rants on about naughty old men. She is obsessed.

    She is an ageing old doris. A silly old white woman. Although I suppose non-white women can be just as silly – aint noticed any difference between them myself.

    She is joining the ranks of other bigots of the same mould – Eleanor catton (who is a silly young white woman), michelle a’court, beck eleven and others who take a few people who do dumb shit and highlight their gender, age and race as if it somehow material to the dumb shit.

    It is becoming an obsession right across the country – witness the finger-pointing around the roast busters. Did any white mothers stand up and take responsibility for raising these sons? Any white sisters? Any non-white sisters? Any women at all? There were plenty pointing fingers at men (always white and older, despite evidence that offenders are usually non-white and younger), despite men not being responsible, as a group. Maybe we should start looking at the actions of white women a little more closely instead of just assuming that everything is the responsibility of that white man driving to work this morning in the car next to you…… It is becoming a joke.

    There is something yucky going on in this country. There is a witch hunt going on.

    I give it the finger.

    • grumpy 3.1

      Nice rant vto.
      I take your point (I think). Perhaps just a bit less coffee so early in the morning………

    • Rogue Trooper 3.2

      he he (some believe that you are ‘under-rated’ vto 😉 )

    • Crunchtime 3.3

      Grumpy old man grumps about silly old woman. More news at 11.

      • vto 3.3.1

        he he, crunchtime, RT and grumpy,… been outa the hood since punching that out

        It was a bit of a rant, but there are usually currents of reality underlying rants of all who rant.

        right, now, back to the honest tranquility of the tui and the flowering harakeke, the kahawai and the hurrying inanga, the sandy bank and the sheltering rock…

  4. michelle boag to stand for act in epsom..?

    ..national to do a double-stand aside deal..?

    ..in epsom for act..

    ..and in east coast bays for colon ‘moon-landing-denier’ craig..?

    phillip ure..

    • bad12 4.1

      Lolz the ACTors will leave no stone unturned in their quest to find someone, anyone, who might attract more than a handful of votes,

      i would have thunk Hooten would have been high on the list but the rumor there is that Slippery is spewing on wee Matty for being involved in the Chorus broadband roll-out fiasco and has told ACT no way,

      The other rumor doing the rounds is that Hooten doesn’t want a bar of ACT either as He is planning the launch of a ‘new’ Liberal Party and is simply waiting for the ACT Party to be declared legally dead befor doing so,

      My pick for wee Matty’s new party name would be the ‘If You Thought The Last Lot Were All Flakes,Hypocrites, and Criminals, Wait till You See Us Lot In Government Party’….

      • Ake ake ake 4.1.1

        Hooton very effectively contributing to John Key’s shipwrecked Ultra Fiasco Broadband project. An own goal. And quite appropriate too.

    • new colon craig theme-songs:

      ..’fly me to the moon’..

      ..moon river’..

      ..’there’s a bad moon rising’..?

      phillip ure..

      • BLiP 4.2.1

        I seldom fully get what you’re on about most of the time, but on this ocassion, hahahahaha!!! Nice one.


        • phillip ure

          @ blip..thank you..i think..(oh tautological-one..)

          ..actually..those three moon songs mark/relate the arc of craigs’ short-lived political-career..

          ..’fly me to the moon’..being that saucer-eyed/over-egged one first hoving into our view..

          ..’moon river’..seemingly his easy route to parliament unfolding before him..

          ..and then..?


          ..then that ‘bad-walking’ moon rose

          ..and it was all over..

          ..from ‘i coulda been a contendor!’..

          ..to a (very funny) joke..’

          ..and i dunno about you..

          ..but i am jonesing for the ‘tooth-fairy’-question..

          ..what further delights has colon ‘i’m no expert on that’ craig in store for us..?


          ..and isn’t the world of local politics so much funnier since the arrival of the colon..?

          ..bless him..!..eh..?

          ..phillip ure..

          • yeshe

            … can hardly wait for his hysterical (womb affected) and lunatic ( moon affected) comments on evolution .. must be coming soon ! thx for smiles this morning phillip ..

            but you missed one:

            Blue moon, you saw me standing alone ….. ( also to be known as Sunset over East Coast Bays) …

            • phillip ure

              to vid of craig staring at the empty room that is his next party-meeting..

              “..everyone’s gone to the moon..”

              ..and the soundtrack for colon ‘i’m no expert on that’ craigs first celestial/moon-walking-lesson..?

              ‘There’s a moon in the sky – The B52’s ‘

              phillip ure..

        • mac1

          Listened to this audio. Craig sounds like he has learned to have a bob both ways. The ‘sorta believe it’ nonsense is designed to not alienate his crazy supporters.

          I spoke to one moon doubter last night. I just said that the moon broadcast was screened live for hours and it would have been bloody hard for an actor to mime moon walking for hours faultlessly. He’d didn’t appreciate my miming a moon walk slow leaping style around the car park where we were.

          His response? “They could have had a cable attached to him…..”

          • phillip ure

            to have to patiently explain this one to these moonbats..is to lower oneself..

            ..but the definitive answer/putdown/laugh-out-loud for them can be summed up in two words..

            ..’cold war’..

            ..these fucktards don’t seem to realise that not only was anyone on earth with a telescope tracking the fucken whole saga ..minute by minute..

            ..but that this was the height of the cold war..

            ..and the russians and the chinese were also watching like hawks..

            ..(or were they ‘in on it too’..?..morons..!..)

            ..tell them this..and then tell them to go and have a long cold shower..

            ..and to never ever utter an opinion on anything else ever again..

            ..’cos they have proven beyond any doubt..

            ..that they are drooling idjits..

            ..unworthy of speaking/being listened to..ever again.

            ..their roles in life – proven to be.. figures of fun..

            ..which brings us back to colon..

            ..phillip ure..

            • mac1

              I don’t feel at all ‘lowered’, thanks, Phillip. But you’re right about the ‘cold war”. The same had occurred to me. This ‘moonbat,’ as you called him, has been a soldier and a policeman, which is even more scary…………..

              Another song for such sky gazers is “Blue Smoke”.

            • Naturesong

              You know that moonbat is generally accepted as an epithet for someone on the left side of the political spectrum.

              I believe that wingnut is the correct term of abuse.

            • joe90

              And when moonbattery converges with wingnuttery the circle of derp is created.

              • Rogue Trooper

                bit of the old moonbat / wingnut convergence around this laboratory, from time-to-time 😀

    • i agree..why the fuck isn’t parker out there touting/selling a financial transaction tax on the banksters..

      ..instead of promising business they will be screwing over the workers even more..?..again..

      ..(and especially galling having this ‘super-austerity’ preaching from politicians who voted themselves the gold-plated super-scheme..eh..?..)

      ..and electorally stoopid…to boot..

      ..asking working nz’ers to vote for two more years of their life-long chores/tasks..to age 67..

      ..is like asking turkeys to vote for thanksgiving..


      ..phillip ure..

      • Crunchtime 5.1.1

        I have sudden rather intense dislike for Parker. He’s undermining the party and the leader.

    • Arfamo 5.2

      I agree. Raising the superannuation age to 67 is a vote loser not a vote winner.

      What’s happened to The Civilian? Doesn’t seem to have resumed on 25 November as promised. I miss its witty insights.

    • Tat Loo (CV) 5.3

      Very disappointing, and plays completely into orthodox monetary and economic theory. The point I made at Conference stands: access to real resources for the elderly is key (are there enough doctors, aged care facilities, home care staff etc); but money is not a constraint – the govt always has money for super (if it is considered important enough) because it can act as the monopoly supplier of NZD.

      • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 5.3.1

        “plays completely into orthodox monetary and economic theory”

        |Yeah. I thought they were moving away form that.

      • Draco T Bastard 5.3.2

        The point I made at Conference stands:

        That’s interesting because what you say would indicate that the majority at the Labour conference voted to raise retirement. The question is: Is this the will of the members or the will of the representatives at the conference?

        Either way, it’s a vote killer. If Labour want National in next term then they will keep this policy.

        • Colonial Viper

          Conference voted to give caucus the discretion to make the decision on the retirement age. Stuck in ” we can’t afford super” and “we need to make it financially sustainable” modes of thinking.

          • Ake ake ake

            Ah. Thanks for that. The membership’s goose is cooked.

            Incidentally, was the Cunliffe leadership meant to help TINA pack up and move out or is the membership about to discover that TINA is a permanent resident in Labour’s broad church?

          • Draco T Bastard

            Conference voted to give caucus the discretion to make the decision on the retirement age.

            Ah, so it’s actually the third option – the will of caucus. Like that worked so well last time 🙄

      • greywarbler 5.3.3

        Operations etc done in NZ can actually act as multipliers in the economy. I know this goes against established wisdom but if work can be carried out in depressions that provide needed things in the community, to keep circulation of money and jobs and skills going, why can we not afford needed, reasonable health care?

        The money earned goes back into the community. It keeps the nurses in employment, many are in the older age group, very skilled and experienced. All that is needed is to keep those able in the retired putting something into society that is helpful to it and a lot of our present problems would be minimised from the extra personpower available to help overcome it. And they would still be able to go away for their holidays, fishing, family visits, garden tours etc. Those who couldn’t afford those could get opportunities to be volunteers at events where they could apply what skills they have.

        • Draco T Bastard

          What you’re actually seeing is part of the major problem with a monetary system especially when that monetary system has been designed to get most of the money into the hands of the few as a capitalist system is designed to do. Society has been conditioned to believe that we need money to do anything but that we don’t have enough money and so we can’t afford to do everything despite having the resources available to do it.

          This is where the government being able to create money would fix things. We would have enough money, no matter what, to utilise our own resources.

    • RedBaronCV 5.4

      Yeh I saw this too. Vote loser.
      My complaints are:
      Why don’t the self employed have to join. They can pay along with their taxes and then they too have a stake in the ultimate outcomes.
      Lots of women vote on the left and also do that wonderful non earning job called looking after the kids for no pay while they are abused by the state and the other parent contributes sweet FA for the kids and is never bothered by the state.
      What are they going to do about that? Nothing it seems so that low or non earners will be poor all their lives and in retirement too while the rest of the community bludges off them. Some one has to care for future taxpayers after all
      The more there is in kiwisaver the less incentive there is for a decent state retirement amount for those who have never made the cut.

      Rules by the rich for the poor and rules by the boys for the boys.

    • Murray Olsen 5.5

      Still far too much of ACT in there for my liking, Risildo. At a time of massive youth unemployment, and when anyone over 50 without a job already is basically unemployable, Parker’s ideas are about as anti-worker as you can get. I’ll add him to my list of Rogernomes that Labour still has to free itself of – Duckface McDuck, Sealord Jones, Phil Lawnorder Goff, David ACT Parker, David Roofman Shearer,…….. They still need a bloody good purge.

  5. Lefty 6

    David Parker has just proved Labour is still hardwired to neoliberalism with his announcement they will lift the age for National Super to 67.

    He seems completely oblivious to the fact there may be choices in how we deal with the bump in older people resulting from the ageing of the boomers.

    We are also still waiting for any signal from Labour that they intend to do anything about reversing the disgusting welfare reforms of the Key and Clark governments.

    • bad12 6.1

      Lolz, Labour appear to have taken the ‘vows of silence’ when it comes to things like Welfare and State Housing,(although David Cunliffe did make mention at the recent Conference that the ‘middle class’ were having trouble paying their rent),

      Face it people, with the advent of MMP Labour no longer needed to represent ‘the poor’,(after all they do not donate lots to the Party),

      In my opinion Labour have been for some time, if Socialist at all, the Socialists of, for and by the middle class,

      You only have to see what occurred surrounding the ‘Working for Families tax credits’ to understand who they truly represent, when this little scheme was dreamed up there was still 400 and 50 odd million dollars in the budget, there was a choice of letting the children of beneficiaries into ‘Working for Families’ or giving ‘Business’ a tax cut,

      We all know what the ‘choice’ Labour took was…

      • phillip ure 6.1.1

        “..You only have to see what occurred surrounding the ‘Working for Families tax credits’ to understand who they truly represent, when this little scheme was dreamed up there was still 400 and 50 odd million dollars in the budget, there was a choice of letting the children of beneficiaries into ‘Working for Families’ or giving ‘Business’ a tax cut,

        We all know what the ‘choice’ Labour took was…”


        ..the leopards’ spots still haven’t gone..

        ..this foot-shot from labour is the proof they just have pancake-makeup plastered all over them..

        ..parkers’ toxic-pail..

        phillip ure..

    • BM 6.2

      Crazy, I can’t believe Labour thinks it’s a good idea.

      According to the last census, there’s around 300,000 people within the 55 -65 age group all counting down to when they retire.

      From what I’ve seen of people within this age group is that they all vote and take voting very seriously.

      You tell me who are these people going to vote for, the party that lets them retire at 65 or the party that boots them in the private parts and tells them they have to work for another two years.

      Unbelievably dumb and arrogant, especially going into an election as tight as the 2014 election will be.

      • Tat Loo (CV) 6.2.1

        It is basically a kamikaze policy electorally, as you point out BM. And a completely unnecessary one. Foisted on us by people with very good govt Kiwi Saver schemes.

        • bad12

          Lolz, can you see the connection CV, what did you think was the ‘plan’ after the introduction of personal retirement schemes???…

        • BM

          Yeah, I struggle sometimes with the reality disconnect.

          What sort of political party goes into an election with a punishment as one of their selling points?
          “Vote for Labour and you get to work for another two years!!”, ummmm I don’t think so.

          Do Labour actually think people give a shit about the aging population and are concerned about how NZ is going to pay for super?, people only care about what’s in it for them selves.

          This is a sort of policy that an out going government pushes through when they know their time is up, not one that’s trying to win power.

          • bad12

            i hate agreeing with you BM, but your comment is pretty much correct, if Slippery’s current National Government can get away with being ‘good financial managers’ by totting up 70-80 billion dollars of government debt by the time they are thankfully kicked from the Treasury Benches then Labour could simply do the same,

            Not that i am an advocate of that, as other’s have pointed out Government need simply ‘produce’ the needed monies to cruise through the retirement bump, the figures are not that great that doing such will alter any of the monetary indicators…

        • Tiger Mountain

          Whilst BMs comments must generally be considered with considerable suspicion he is certainly correct on this issue.

          • Ake ake ake

            The beauty of Parker’s latest announcement …… which actually surprisingly unites a number of otherwise usually opposing commentators here. And the votes are not really in Labour’s favour.

      • Lanthanide 6.2.2

        The last census also showed a drop in the proportion of people under the age of 15.

        Expecting the young generation to pay for the oldie’s retirements, when they’ve also hoovered up all of the resources over the last 40 years, is delusional.

        • Tat Loo (CV)

          And a recipe for intergenerational conflict. Wait until climate change and resource depletion starts biting hard in the next 10-20 years.

          • Lanthanide

            Yet another reason why we can’t afford to keep super at 67.

            Note that it’s those 15 year olds that’ll be paying for *my* super. You lot will have shuffled off by then.

            • s y d

              Labour WTF! don’t raise the age, just limit eligiblity – universality is BS…if you don’t need it don’t take it.

              It’s a benefit like them all. Means test the old fuckers.

              i now expect the usual crapola of ‘I paid my taxes etc etc’ will be rolled out.

              as for kiwisaver, what a scam that is, tax rise for the workers in ordeer to provide a huge fund for financial speculation….

              • Ron

                It is not a benefit at all. It is a pension which is promised to every citizen. Calling it a benefit helps to demean it in the eyes of all those not receiving it.

                • s y d

                  OK Ron, I agree, perhaps benefit isn’t the right term. It is though, I think, a form of social security, which if you don’t need it, you shouldn’t take it, regardless of whether it was promised or not.

        • karol

          I see plenty of fairly young people hoovering up loads more resources than many older people.

          I’d favour moving older people to part time work – with maybe a smaller super payment. Works for me with my modest pensions from the UK. I’m also fine with earning a lower rate of pay than when I was younger, although for others, it’d depend on the amount of their previous income.

          I can see that many people approaching 65 are ready for withdrawal from full time employment.

          But really, I would have thought it was a priority for any “Labour” government to be looking at decreasing the inequality gap, improving social security, raising wages, improving employment legislation, increasing the amount of jobs, apprenticeships, etc.

          • Colonial Viper

            I see plenty of fairly young people hoovering up loads more resources than many older people.

            A couple of for-instances please?

            • karol

              I see younger people who take for granted that they have cars, the newest technology, – basically far more consumerist than many of us oldies have ever been.

              Also, I see some children of boomers (in my own wider whanau) who get access to more resources than some of my boomer colleagues ever had – and have good jobs and prospects, sometimes from the networks their parents operate in.

              It’s true that economically, and with respect to jobs, more young people are struggling than back when us boomers were young. Although it’s hard to compare. More jobs were available, and they paid well enough for the smaller amount of consumer items and services that were considered necessary compared with today. It was often a struggle from payday to payday for me and my mates in our late teens and early twenties.

              There have always been socio-economic differences within all generations – this is glossed over by the blanket claims about what the older generations have done or benefited from.

              I also think the period when it seemed very good for a lot of young (mostly upper working class to and above) was those that grew up in the late 1970s and in the 1980s. It wasn’t such an easy ride for many youngsters in the late 60s and 70s.

              One of the biggest complaints from younger people is being shut out of the housing market. This is something that is starting to impact on the middle class young more than ever before. But it was always a struggle to get on the housing ladder for many on the lowest incomes.

              And me, as a life time renter I just don’t get all this obsessing over home buying – was never such an obsession in many parts of Europe.

              • Draco T Bastard

                And me, as a life time renter I just don’t get all this obsessing of=ver home buying

                Can’t say that owning a house has been of major concern to me either but I’m against rentals as it encourages rentier behaviour from the rich. The private persons who own the homes that are rented out effectively get to live on the hard work of the renters and a few of them get to live a hell of a lot better than the people supplying their income while working far less.

                The only way I support rentals is state owned rentals set at a low percentage of household income.

                • karol

                  Well, I am OK because I have/had a reasonable income, no dependents and am happy to live in a studio with limited material possessions.

                  On the issue of rentier landlords/ladies making money on the back of my (boomer) work. My last 2 landlords have been younger than me (one was definitely too young to be a boomer, the other may be on the cusp or slightly younger than the youngest boomers).

      • Puddleglum 6.2.3

        Hi BM,

        I’m not in favour of the policy but the group you mention (55 to 65 year olds) will barely be affected by it. By 2020 today’s 55 year olds will be about 62. Given that it will be phased in even they will be working only for an extra year.

        The irony in terms of the argument about ‘inter-generational fairness’ is that the baby boomers will just sneak under this bar.

        It would be interesting to see the percentage of GDP spent on education and children’s health (and the family benefit, etc.) in the post-war decades to see how we could afford the baby boomers then but apparently not when they retire. I suspect they were pretty expensive then, too, yet apparently as a society we afforded it without so much as an economic twinge, let alone pain.

        • karol

          Back then, I think the gap between rich and poor wasn’t so great. There wasn’t so much siphoning off of profits to enrich the top 10%.

          And yes, it seemed to me odd that the talk was about the boomers, but most won’t be impacted by Labour’s raising the super age. It will impact more on younger ages (given NZ boomers are meant to be those born between about 1946 & 1961).

          The youngest will be 65 in 2026.

    • Lanthanide 6.3


      Labour would raise the age of eligibility for New Zealand Superannuation to 67, make KiwiSaver compulsory for employees and increase the KiwiSaver contribution rate if voted into power.

    • blue leopard (Get Lost GCSB Bill) 6.4

      There is another issue being ignored with the policy of raising the Super age. High unemployment is being ignored. Jobs for younger people need freeing up. This won’t happen with raising the retirement age.

      It might be better to focus on developing a healthy functioning society that can afford to pay people to retire rather than wringing more work out of older people at the expense of and ignoring other serious issues.

      I think this is a real mistake for Labour to pursue raising the retirement age.

      • s y d 6.4.1

        david parker, treasury mouthpiece in opposition

        “Labour understands the importance of universal superannuation to people. That’s why we are committed to keeping it in a way that is fair across generations. If we don’t steadily raise the age, Treasury says we will have to lift GST to 17 per cent.

        “Polls show that New Zealanders support our policy.

        the only other option is to raise GST???? for fucks sake get a grip you tards…TINA once again.

        what is this 1987?

        • blue leopard (Get Lost GCSB Bill)

          +1 Syd especially the bit about getting a grip you tards

        • Draco T Bastard


          Bloody stupid economists. It’s time to stop listening to them because they happen to be wrong about pretty much everything.

        • bad12

          s y d, nail,hammer,head, a really good question= what is this 1987?, way way down inside you know it is…

          • s y d

            Sold my omnicorp shares and doubled my money…made about $120…my first ever vote, a sunny Saturday, strolled to the booth with my mate, me labour, him nat….both realised we could’ve stayed at home and saved the bother. Hamilton West. 1987. Mallard. Jesus wept. 1987. I know it is.

      • amirite 6.4.2

        I Agree. Unless there aren’t more jobs for young people, the policy is pointless.

    • greywarbler 6.5

      Your point is very important. I want to know too without further delay.
      We are also still waiting for any signal from Labour that they intend to do anything about reversing the disgusting welfare reforms of the Key and Clark governments.

      But more, ‘what they are going to do in reversing’ We need firm commitment, not any of those PC airy fairy comments about those with the poster features of poverty, mostly the cute children and the grey-haired. Get sentimental if you must but don’t forget that adults are cute too, and great, and needy, and deserving, single or parents.

      • Ake ake ake 6.5.1

        Maybe the next Labour conference should happily vote to give caucus the discretion to decide on welfare policy?


      • greywarbler 6.5.2

        I didn’t place this reply to Lefty very strategically! Lefty is up at No.6 if you’re interested to know.

  6. Garbage man 7


    Back on your medication there, that would rate as the most sexist, racist, ignorant rant i have read for some time although i did have a chuckle and thats always a good way to start a Thursday

    • Tat Loo (CV) 7.1

      If you have a point, please make your argument for it.

      • Garbage man 7.1.1

        Calling someone like Eleanor Catton (that just won an international prize) a silly young white woman ??? Why ? maybe VTO could elaborate a bit more as to why she and others in her post deserve this
        Sorry there was no reply button when i posted the original msg

        • Colonial Viper

          I thought that was a bit rough too. But I get his point: communities raised these young men into what they are, and communities aren’t made up of just men.

          • karol

            I tried looking at the McCleod articles published this week, and, as far as I can see, they have little to do with VTO’s rant. They are idiosyncratic op eds – and yes they do have a pretty middle class focus. They don’t really make majorly sweeping statements about differences between men and women, but focus on a small number of news items. Basically they are light weight pieces – superficial, but she makes one or two good points on the way.

            Earlier this week: “Placenta-eating not for this mammal”

            She’s pretty scathing about the activities of some middle class new age pretenders, particularly some female celebs

            The justification for this revolting new-age practice is that all other mammals do it, so it must be good for you.

            Well, my cats have brought two dead rats into the house this week, but I don’t see myself tracking vermin on all fours and snapping their necks with my teeth. There’s a reason why humans walk on two legs, not four: We find better things to eat.
            When feminists crossbred with hippies some curious beliefs arose, and I am surprised that in Jones’ case they survive, if only in California.

            Rebirthing was one of those beliefs, and my placenta friend tried it. It involved people holding her down firmly under tightly packed blankets, and making her wriggle out of them a new person, her former bad birth experience as an actual baby put to rights. Anyone who has been involved in real births will immediately see the humour in that. She did, too, I’m glad to say.
            Friends who went that way all came from middle-class homes with lots of books and no lack of parental money, but they felt the need to turn their back on luxury and live the way my family had for lack of choice. Only the happy parts of subsistence living appealed – they could ignore the nasty bits – and so they lived, as a brave experiment, a lifestyle they didn’t have to, and could opt out of, and felt superior and smug.

            Which brings me to the terrible gang-rape and murder of a young Indian medical student, which has led to mass demonstrations against the Indian Government and police, and turned her into a martyr.

            Totally weird segue. It goes on:

            Feminists protest that a woman is raped in India every 20 minutes, but their complaints are not taken seriously by police or by lawmakers.

            Protesters spoke of misogyny and sexual abuse of women in everyday life – as they faced tear gas, police batons and water cannons.

            Hopefully, good will come of this shocking crime; it seems the government there may change the law. But I’m thinking of the people I knew who thought India was all about patchouli, gurus and spangly clothing, and were happy to overlook the lives of grinding poverty they saw there. I wonder if they ever came to understand that those people had no choice.

            The op ed article today: “Charmers fool even the mighty”

            Also rather a strange take on the issues, focusing on Dominique Strauss-Kahn and Charles Saatchi. She seems to take heart from the fact that mysogyny and sexism is a great equaliser for women, providing other women with the same kinds of experience as the likes of Nigella Lawson:

            I am perhaps shamefully heartened by the thought that the wives of Dominique Strauss-Kahn and Charles Saatchi, such worldly, sophisticated and intelligent charmers, may have had as crappy a time in the end as any of us who don’t have credit cards with unlimited spending, and are not ourselves both beautiful and independently rich.

            The article ends with a comment, not about all men, or even about al aging white men, but a certain sub species who are bullies.

            Giving evidence in court last week over another matter, Mr Saatchi explained, “I was holding her head by the neck to make her focus, can we be clear?”

            We are all so much clearer, about how a bully thinks, at any rate, no matter how charming, sophisticated, brilliant and urbane.

            At least he has taken back his temper-tantrum claim that Ms Lawson is a cokehead. If this were true, I wouldn’t blame her. You’d have to have an unnaturally bovine disposition to cope serenely with the infantile tantrums and misdemeanours of ageing men who, in the midst of worldly success beyond anyone’s dreams, forget to grow up

            McCleod – not a great thinker or at the forefront of (white middle class) feminism: more a proponent of superficial chatter for the dinner party circuit, with a bit of a feminist slant. She does make some good points along the way, but fails to present them in any kind of coherent, in-depth or useful argument.

            • Garbageman

              Thank you Karol that goes someway to understanding the original post

            • grumpy

              I think Rosemary is brilliant, easily the most readable contributor to what is a pathetic excuse for a newspaper.

              • lprent

                I gave up reading her a decade ago. Doesn’t know how to say anything straight out. Has to try and hide her actual meaning behind a pile of waffle.

                Ummmm so you like her writing. Well it is “polite” stupid bigotry I guess.

                • karol

                  Yes – those articles above were a collection of loosely linked points without a strong connecting argument.

                  • like edwards the elder..mcleod lost the plot a while back..

                    ..reduced to reactionary rants about first world issues..

                    ..he should just focus on watching his talent-shows..

                    ..and mcleod has her tapestry..

                    ..they had their moments in the sun..

                    ..but relevance is something neither of them have..

                    ..any more..

                    ..and far too often – basic coherence seems to desert them..

                    ..(like so many of the old neo-lib labour mp’s..eh..?


                    ..their time is done..)

                    ..maybe they should all move to a gated-community together..?


                    phillip ure..

                • swordfish

                  Yep, the woman’s been writing utterly meaningless gibberish for quite some time now.

                  Not so much “brilliant”, grumpy, as god-awful !!! Little general knowledge, little principle, little common-sense. Exemplifies the way our dear old ex-boarding school elite seem to effortlessly move into these high-profile positions despite zero talent.

                  To illustrate her uncaring, self-absorbed, inherently glib brand of doziness, McLeod’s response (Afternoons with Jim Mora) to the anti-democratic army coup in Egypt, was something along the lines of “Yeah, it’s a shame. They’re obviously not ready for democracy yet.”

          • weka


            “I thought that was a bit rough too. But I get his point: communities raised these young men into what they are, and communities aren’t made up of just men.”

            If you think those few weeks of focus on the rape club were about blaming men and holding them solely responsible, then sorry, but you have majorly missed the point.

            Most feminists I’ve known who have raised boys are acutely aware of what that means. Likewise, when feminists talk about rape culture and men’s responsibility in that, they’re not saying it’s all men’s fault. What they are doing is pointing out to men, now that we are finally allowed to, that we’ve been working on solving rape all this time and now it’s time you lot stepped up and sorted your shit out around this issue (we can’t do that part of it). Women generally know where they fit in the scheme of things. It’s men like vto who project their own insecurities onto the politics.

            If I say that men have a responsibility in resolving the high rates of sexual assualt in this country, and vto hears that as “men are solely to blame and women are completely blameless”, that’s actually about vto, not me.

            I agree with Garbage man, the racism and misogyny in vto’s comment was breathtaking. It was also nasty, and serves to muddy the issues (although I fail to see how saying women are just as bad if not worse than men helps).

        • grumpy

          You need to make allowances for vto. He started off on here as a bit of a rightie, caught Stockholm Syndrome and headed left.
          He’s a bit confused but should come out of the closet any day now……….

          • karol

            Well, McCleod can be criticised heavily. But VTO seems to have done a very selective reading of her columns then headed off on his own tangent. McLeod was also scathing about young middle class new agers who fail to understand what poverty is really about, and about various male and female celebs.

          • Rogue Trooper

            lol; very turned out, today. 😀

        • greywarbler

          Garbage men don’t read Eleanor Catton.
          Yes they do they just don’t understand it.
          It seems that there is a sensitive guy emerging from the corpse of a ranter who wants to attack the bastion of society, the caring parent who works hard at raising children well to the best of her ability.

          Could this be a RW troll?

          • Garbageman

            Actually im a middle wing non troll that enjoys many blog sites and is entitled to his opinion as much as you are and FYI i enjoyed The Luminaries, and once again nothing to do with the topic at hand …so whos the troll then

  7. Molly 8

    Participating in a focus group, and the questions are surprisingly political.

    Looked up the company – essential media – and it seems neutral, but I don’t want to be contributing to a PR strategy for anyone.

    Does anyone know anything about this research company?

  8. jcuknz 9

    I suppose I vote National becuase Muldoon gave me Super at Sixty and Labour want to make it SixtySeven 🙂

    • bad12 9.1

      Oh well i will look on the bright side of the coin then, if Muldoon gave it too you when you hit sixty you wont be voting National for too many more elections will you,

      (unsmiley face)…

      • alwyn 9.1.1

        He (or she) wouldn’t have to be that old actually. Muldoon introduced it in 1977 and it stayed at 60 until 1991 whan it was increased to 61 as the age of eligibility with a phased rise to 65.
        Anyone therefore who turned 60 in late 1990 would therefore have started receiving super at that age.
        They would only be 82, as of today, which is not really that old by today’s standards. Not young, perhaps, but you would probably have, if you were a female of 82 at least another 10 years of life expectancy. Might out-live you bad12. After all unsmiley people don’t live as long as those who are cheerful.

        • bad12

          Lolz, and where are most of these 82= year olds to be found, being not looked after in some cruddy ‘nursing home’ perhaps???,

          The amusement for me is watching this orgy of ‘save save save’ for your retirement, what exactly are the old uns,(and i am not far off it),going to do with hundreds of thousands of dollars at age 79+ when the fact is that the older you get the less you actually spend,(in my experience),

          If 82 is to mean that i will be spoon fed and have to have someone wipe it off of the other end i think i will pass on that anyway, (other than that i want to live forever and rule the world)…

          • alwyn

            On this matter we are clearly in agreement, and also in agreement with Robert Mortimer and Kingsley Amis.
            As Mortimer said “There is no pleasure worth foregoing just for an extra three years in a geriatric ward”.
            Amis’ version was “No pleasure is worth giving up for the sake of two more years in a geriatric home at Weston-super-mare”.
            I wonder who said it first or did they both plagiarise it from a third, earliar author?

            • bad12

              i dunno, but calling the Earl a liar could construe defamation…

              • Rogue Trooper

                is that you Earl?

                • jcuknz

                  It is running my computer and engineering equipment that keeps me young, just got my licence to drive until 84 …. but I had an easy life and didn’t work my guts out for the capitalists. Drove a five tonne truck from Wanaka to Dunedin and back when I was 80, I’m the only one in my family with an HT licence , did the same this year with my SUV…. but I’m just a youngster with too many projects for a rest home or the grave as yet.:)
                  That 90yo is an inspiration as are the youngsters I know celebrating their 80ths this year.. I am afraid Laabour-Greens would have to do, not promise, something special to beat what National are doing for the older person.
                  I shouldn’t really wave the red flag but the comments prompt me 🙂

          • greywarbler

            cheer up bad 12 the volunteer place where I work has a brnch of 80 year olds that make some 60 years look decrepit. One of our oldest insisted on being at work until she died over 90, she was getting shaky but still feisty. I guess you will be the same from reading your comments.

  9. BLiP 10


    A sheet of talking points for employees of the National Security Agency and Central Security Services, was sent out ahead of Thanksgiving to help guide conversations with family and friends during the holiday season . . .

    Moar here – http://dissenter.firedoglake.com/2013/12/02/nsa-sent-home-talking-points-for-employees-to-use-in-conversations-with-family-friends-during-holidays/

    Meanwhile, Rupert’s empire turns on the ABC for daring to speak truth while over in the UK, editor of The Guardian is hauled before a Parliamentary Committee which sets about attacking the freedom of the press. Can’t be much longer before we see some revelations of New Zealand’s involvement in the mass spying on its citizens . . . or maybe there will be something of a delay until Kim Dotcom’s case gets back to court.

    Worried much, John?

  10. Morrissey 11

    No. 1: Jamie White

    Who will the sheep of Epsom be instructed to vote for next year?

    JOHN BOSCAWEN: We have a number of high quality potential candidates.

    SIMON SHEPHERD: Such as?

    JOHN BOSCAWEN: Jamie White. [Awkward pause] He’s a philosopher—

    SIMON SHEPHERD: Nobody’s HEARD of Jamie White!

    JOHN BOSCAWEN: Oooooh, he’s a very very smart individual….

    ——TV3 Firstline, Thursday 5 December 2013, 7:15 a.m.

    • karol 11.1

      Well the first google hit for Jamie White gives me this:

      For NZ, take your pick.

      Me – I haven’t a clue.

      • freedom 11.1.1

        Perhaps it’s this guy ?? Born in kiwiland but (till recently?) based in the UK.

        He seems to tick all the right boxes. He is a Senior Fellow with the Adam Smith Institute and writes lots of stuff tailor made for and celebrated by the addled nutters who think profits are more important than people.

        eg: here is an extract from a paper he wrote for the IEA
        from- Quack Policy
        Abusing Science in the Cause of Paternalism

        These seven goods are health, security, friendship, leisure, personality, respect, and Savile Row suits. No, only joking: not Savile Row suits, harmony with nature.

        But, joking aside, why are Savile Row suits less important than harmony with nature or leisure or all the other things on the Skidelskys’ list? The Skidelskys provide no empirical evidence that leisure is objectively more valuable than a nice suit (how could they?) nor any valid argument for this conclusion from obviously true premises (again, how could they?). Their list is compiled simply from their own judgements about what really matters in life – judgements that they ask us to believe are a more reliable guide to the true, objective values than are the judgements of us dissenters.

        If this is the philosopher economist they have in mind, he appears to be a perfect nactoid, primed and ready for the TPPA era.

        • Morrissey

          Jamie Whyte is a philosopher—if by “philosopher” you mean someone hanging around the extreme right-wing think tanks of England trying to get laid.

          • grumpy

            I hear those right wing think tanks have some of the best really hot political groupies…..could do worse.

            • Morrissey

              Hmmmm…. I suspect you might be a bit of a philosopher as well, grumpy.

            • Murray Olsen

              Nah, they don’t. They have a few unbalanced nutters waiting for an invitation to the fox hunt with Montague. I’ve seen what hangs around posing as right wing thinkers inside universities – 14 virgins, all after the same girl, and planing to be at the Ayn Rand statue unveiling in 2018, because they’re pretty sure Wendy or Jennifer will be there. They are very sad people.

      • Rogue Trooper 11.1.2

        WKRP in Cincinnati, Kid. 😀

    • Lanthanide 11.2

      Actually it’s spelled Whyte:

      Jamie Whyte: The formerly British-based journalist made an appearance at ACT’s conference. He now lives in New Zealand and has confirmed he is in the running.

    • Not a PS Staffer 11.3

      Who is Boscawen’s wet dream, Jamie Whyte?

      Jamie Whyte is a management consultant. He was formerly a philosopher who wrote on philosophy for a general audience. Born in New Zealand, he now lives in the United Kingdom. He was formerly a lecturer in Philosophy at Cambridge University.

      He has written numerous articles for The Times newspaper, and books including Bad Thoughts (whose US edition is called Crimes Against Logic ), A Load of Blair) Free Thoughts (a collection of various articles) and Quack Policy. His style attempts to dissect confused logic and nonsensical arguments, specifically the public pronouncements of modern politicians.
      In Bad Thoughts Whyte identifies and provides examples of the most common devices used to present flawed arguments, and encourages the reader to develop the ability to spot flawed reasoning.
      Whyte is a committed defender of the free market economist Friedrich Hayek and he supports right wing politics.

      Whyte has defended the morality and the right of wealthy individuals to use tax avoidance schemes to massively reduce their tax, following criticism by British Prime Minister David Cameron of the comedian Jimmy Carr, who had been accused of reducing his tax liability through using such a scheme to about 1% of his £3.3 million income.


  11. ianmac 12

    Oops. On National Radio this morning it was said that if David Cunliffe is not prosecuted for his call for people to vote in Christchurch East, then Mr Mcready has vowed to do so. A bit tough?

    • bad12 12.1

      Yeah Graham Mac seems to be a bit long in the tooth to be clothing Himself in the lycra of the caped crusader,

      Listening to that bloke Andrew Geddis a legal eagle at Otago University this morning, He seems to think that ‘Tweeting’ is a grey area of the Law surrounding publicly advocating that people vote for a certain candidate,

      Are ‘tweets’ public as they are sent to ‘selected’ individuals seems to be His question,

      Lolz i wont be donating to Graham Macs ‘legals’ against Cunliffe if it gets that far, i think the bloke has a bit of an addiction to the ‘fame’ that comes with this particular game…

      • weka 12.1.1

        “Are ‘tweets’ public as they are sent to ‘selected’ individuals seems to be His question,”

        If I put a poster up in town that is specifically addressed to you, is it public?

        If I put an ad in the personal columns, specifically addressed to you, is it public?

        I can’t see how tweeting can’t be public to be honest (or is there private tweeting too?).

    • karol 12.2

      My prediction – Cunliffe will be found guilty of violating the law, but without malicious intent, by police and fined.

      • Lanthanide 12.2.1

        If the police were being consistent, they should find it wasn’t with intent and therefore not do anything.

      • Te Reo Putake 12.2.2

        I imagine he’d be eligible for diversion, karol, if the police bothered with it all.

        The question would be whether a prosecution would be in the public interest. That, as well as the legal niceties of whether it’s an offence anyway and the fact that only a small percentage of his twitter followers would be Chch East voters (and presumably all of them already committed labour voters) suggest to me that this will peter out to nothing.

        • Morrissey

          Next up, they’ll be busting Labour politicians for jaywalking.

          Don’t underestimate the determination of the right wing to make an issue of this non-issue, however: Cunliffe’s tweet has the potential to be the next (utterly spurious) cause célèbre for the National Party and its media outlets.

          • Draco T Bastard


          • Ron

            I heard on news that someone was calling for Cunliffe to resign. Wow that would create a problem sticking with the leader has to be called David that only leaves Parker left

        • Draco T Bastard

          (and presumably all of them already committed labour voters)

          Nope, National Party Research will follow him as well as other parties. So will journalists.

          BTW, the law doesn’t say anything about it being restricted to locality.

      • Puckish Rogue 12.2.3

        My prediction – Nothing will happen

      • alwyn 12.2.4

        Now you really are starting to scare me.”Cunliffe will be found guilty by police and fined”
        Do you really want the police to be prosecutor, judge, jury and executioner?

      • Arfamo 12.2.5

        Exactly Alwyn. I don’t think our police are yet at the point where the law allows them to find someone guilty of such an offence and fine them. Are they? They quite often aren’t even capable of mounting a successful prosecution of the obviously guilty.

        • Naturesong

          Instant fines for minor offences?

          • Arfamo

            Doesn’t apply in this case does it? Cunners is already pleading guilty in the media to a brief fit of stupidity in the commission of an offence against the electoral act. The nature of the offence is trivial, the tweet would have reached a tiny audience all of whose minds would’ve already been made up on who to vote for (either supporters or RWNJs looking for a chance to “get” him, and the “publication” was so short-lived the worst that should happen should be a teensy fine.

            RWNJs can have a field day making hyperbolic twits of themselves over it.

            • Naturesong

              No, I’m not even sure we still have instant fines for traffic offences anymore.

              It would make politics more fun though, if instant fines were leveled at polititions for minor offences like David Cunliffes recent untimely endorcement of Poto Williams.

              You could extend it to things like crimes against the internet (Judith Collins on twitter), or bad puns (though I suspect this would unfairly target David Cunliffe).
              … perhaps everytime a politition says “I can’t recall”.

              Very much like a swear jar, but for polititions
              The penalty doesn’t need to be a fine. Vodka shot for every member of cabinet (or shadow cabinet for the opposition) per offence would be fine.

              • Arfamo

                Most of the people who use Twitter should probably be banned from doing anything else at all :). Never has a social medium been so aptly named. I regard it as an idiot detector.

    • Murray Olsen 12.3

      I think McCready has stopped clock syndrome. I’m as happy that he prosecuted Banks as I am that a German capitalist may expose Key in court as a serial liar. Every now and then, you need a toilet plunger, but not for fine dining.

  12. bad12 13

    Is the noted NZ National Party NZ Herald jonolist John Armstrong suffering from a disease of the mind,

    Today Armstrong devotes His whole column in the Herald to trying to convince us all that John Banks was leaving the Parliament at the end of the year anyway,(and not because He got told by Boscowan ”don’t bother re-applying”),

    i could spend a lot of pixels and time venting anger at such spurious and utter trash,(i refuse to call That journalism),

    Better tho to just say ”what a load of S**t” and move on…

  13. Tracey 14


    maybe labour understand that a graduating extension to retirement age recognises the enormous cost of super and that 65 isnt “old” anymore. You could be construed as saying why suggest something for the greater good if you wont win votes. The corollary of which is do anything to get votes no matter how bad it is for the greater good. Oh wait a minute you support national.

    • bad12 14.1

      Yeah you could say 65 aint old for the people that sit around all day tapping on computer keys for a living but what of those who provide the ‘real ergs of work’ in the economy, those who labour physically for their daily bread???,

      Most such people have worn out their bodies by the time 50 comes around and does not Labour feel that they are due some recognition…

      • karol 14.1.1

        Actually, I also know one or two businessmen who work at a pretty intense pace, who are approaching 65 and looking forward to the relief of retirement – or maybe semi-retirement in a less stressful, less time consuming job.

      • Rogue Trooper 14.1.2

        well, they’ll be waiting longer for hips and knees; recognition…has Treasury costed that…

      • Flip 14.1.3


        Agree bad12. Perhaps they need to look at the universality of super or make it needs tested to continue to supply it. The suggestion to up retirement age to 67 from a Labour politician is really dumb. Perhaps he needs to retire or go work for ACT. I hear they need a new leader and it would not be the first time someone from Labour has been there. It starts to look like a well worn path and I wonder how they get to be representing Labour. Any wonder voters are confused.

      • jcuknz 14.1.4

        +100% on that Bad12 …. though I am not sure how and with any honesty a retirement age, and pension, based on what one had done in ones working life could work.

    • BM 14.2

      The most important parts of being a successful political party

      1.Getting yourself elected

      2.Nothing else because you haven’t been elected

      Greater good policies don’t get you elected.

      • Ake ake ake 14.2.1

        Goodness me, what did I have for breakfast today. You are even starting to sound persuasive. When I saw the David Parker announcement, I went WTF. You are quite right about (2) and the subsequent statement. All that reminds me of a conversation I once had with Rodney Hide a long time ago.

        Btw, what is the story with Parker’s stand-alone announcement about super. Is that the party policy after membership support and caucus agreement?

        Does Labour now think it is in an invincible position to begin announcing unpopular policies on their own? I take it that Cunliffe is still alive and well and he approved Parker’s announcement, i.e. this super policy is also supported by Cunliffe?

    • Colonial Viper 14.3

      Bloody hell, Labour should reduce super age to 63 on the condition that peeps do 20 hours community and social volunteer work a week. I mean, come on, let’s change society.

      How to afford it? Print an additional $25M pw into the Cullen Fund starting right now. Easy as. The key is ensuring that when those payments are made, the real economy is healthy enough to provide the resources and services that people are expecting to be able to purchase with the money.

      This is new economic thinking.

      • Olwyn 14.3.1

        That is the most important issue I think, with David Parker’s announcement. I am not sure whether or not printing money is the answer, but attending to the health of the real economy seems central to anything that could be termed real change. If a rise in the retirement age, with penalty-free allowances for those longer able to work, was embedded within a range of policies aimed at the health of the real economy, I do not think it would raise alarm bells. But by itself, it looks like more of the same old fakery, designed to reduce the poor to wretched, and more slowly and surreptitiously, the middle class to poor, under the cloak of “balancing the books.”

        The other problem is, this policy, along with the TPP, was shelved at the conference for further consideration, due to disagreement between the membership and the caucus. Now it looks as if “further consideration” means “what the caucus decides once dissenters are out of the way.” I hope this not going to apply to the TPP as well.

        • just saying

          No to mention the other policy announced today about extending passports. Again by itself maybe not so serious, but as one of the few policies annonunced, it’s looking like the Labour Party continuing along the path of representing the interests of the comfy and ignoring those with less cushy lives (and the wishes of their members).

          Same old same old….

          • s y d

            nailed it. you don’t (as yet) require a passport to walk from Putaruru to the WINZ office in Tokoroa.

            • bad12

              While all the while having an office in Putaruru which is open part-time 2 days a week, what a miserable bunch of Arse-wipes WINZ and Slippery’s National government are,

              i have to wonder how many people are being put through this unnecessary expense who live in Putaruru or other small towns with the same ‘part-time WINZ office’,

              The ‘efficient’ means of having all the beneficiaries fulfill their ‘obligations’,(no matter how stupid and a waste of time they are), would be for them all to go to the Putaruru office on the same day of the month with that office remaining open all day…

              • lprent

                That was my thought. Closely followed by the words caravan and bus. Basically the WINZ people in areas without public transport should be kicked off the arses and and setup at local shopping centres in the villages and smaller towns.

                But of course under Paula Bennett they aren’t there to help in any respect from finding jobs to making and effort to do their jobs. It is National’s policy to be stupidly punitively stupid with people..

                • RedBaronCV

                  Caravan , bus what are you thinking. The WINZ staffers could ride a push bike over Putararu. If it’s good enough for a beneficiary…..

                  And while we are at it:
                  How about our politicians catch the airport flyer in to Parliament.
                  In the morning it runs about every 10 minutes and takes about 25 minutes .
                  They could keep costs down, mix with the voters, get there just as fast
                  reduce the need to drill for oil
                  What’s not to like

                  and I would not be tempted to make gestures at Gerry Brownlee passing in the crown limo

              • yeshe

                1+1 =2 .. so why not give this fit and able walking beneficiary a job serving in the not-open-enough Putaruru office ?? She’s been told she has to find work under their new rules which is why she needed to show for the WINZ appointment.

                Nah .. too simple.

                And ‘caravan’ .. yes LPrent.

        • Ake ake ake

          “The other problem is, this policy, along with the TPP, was shelved at the conference for further consideration, due to disagreement between the membership and the caucus. Now it looks as if “further consideration” means “what the caucus decides once dissenters are out of the way.” I hope this not going to apply to the TPP as well.”

          And by the time the nationwide membership meets again, it will be too close to the election and too late for the membership to do much (and, hey membership, don’t rock the boat). Haha. I am wondering now how transparent and honest the Labour caucus is.

        • Rogue Trooper

          +1 Olwyn

      • Draco T Bastard 14.3.2

        How to afford it? Print an additional $25M pw into the Cullen Fund starting right now.

        If the government is creating money then we don’t need the Cullen Fund either. Nor do we need retirement schemes. All we need to do is plan so that the economy can provide the goods and services that will be needed but it seems that the political parties are still wedded to the neo-liberal BS of not planning and leaving it all to that mythical beast the “free-market”.

      • North 14.3.3

        Attractive concept there CV @ 14.3

        I’ve got no links to cite or statistics to ply but engagement in one’s community especially when it’s pursued on a notionally voluntary basis MUST be good.

        One thing is sure. Moral and social isolation is the killer of a decent society. Selfishness and lust for exclusively personal gain are the very planks of it. Pity that we’re encouraged in it by the false smiles and weasel words of charlatans.

    • KJT 14.4

      Only if you accept the neo-liberal rights wings meme that transfer payments for welfare, including super are solely a “cost”. As if transfer payments to the old simply disappear without trace, like tax cuts to the wealthy for Hawaii holidays.

      On the other hand, you could say that universal super has been so successful in ensuring less than 3% of the elderly live in poverty, at a relatively cheap net cost to the economy, that rather than reducing it, we should extend the concept to all ages. Especially children!

  14. Tracey 15


    australian based I think.

    We provide a ‘one stop shop’ for communications, media and public affairs services, including:strategic communications  & campaign planningpublic, member and social researchadvertising and creative developmentcommunication audits & reviewmedia relations & media trainingpublic relations and media managementissues management, crisis management and reputation protectionadvocacy & lobbying supportcopywriting, design & productiononline & social media strategyonline content design and productionmember communications and community managementfundraising and member recruitmentwebsite builds & maintenance.These tools allow us to plan and execute strategic communications that:strengthen organisational capacityshift public opinionchange government policygrow audiences and membership

    • Molly 15.1

      Thanks Tracey. Found that, but also saw their previous work which seems different from the run of the mill PR companies. Which makes me want to continue if this is the case, have only two days to go.

      Will probably ask the researcher off-line for clarity on who is funding the research.

  15. greywarbler 16

    Commentator from Brit saying David Cameron is holding himself apart from Boris Johnson opinion expressed that ‘Greed is good’. Apparently Cameron believes in social mobility and that there is too much inequality. Oh if only politicians had to eat their words. He would be holding his bowl out for more gruel like Oliver, sent to the school for chronic degenerates for being a lying fibbing sly little s.d.

    And Graham Edgler Graham McCready – what’s with this little husk of a person. In his retirement setting himself up to be Don Quixote as a hobby. Can’t tell the difference between taking the equivalent of a married beneficiary annual payment for personal support and the mistake of putting out a ten minute tweet to supporters. Not the letter of the law, but a response of strong criticism would be appropriate for that, even a fine of $1000 would indicate a serious response, more than a slap on the wrist which might leave RW with fodder for their endless litany of lies about the ‘other side of politicians’.

    These RW they don’t care about society. They want to pick at bits of it that don’t suit and they don’t like until it hasn’t a fabric, just a lot of holes separated by threads thinner than human hairs. Which have probably been torn out by anguished citizens who support democracy for all.

    [lprent: Fixed the misname. ]

    • greywarbler 16.1

      I’m confused easily apparently. Too many Grahams. I said Graeme Edgler when I actually was thinking of Graham McCready.

      • yeshe 16.1.1

        maybe LPrent can fix that for you … wouldn’t want to be seen saying those things about Mr Edgler ! very big oops and shd be removed imho …

  16. ianmac 17

    This comment by Dr Ell struck me as very apt given the concern we have about constant testing. I totally agree.

    Dr Fiona Ell is a lecturer in primary teacher education in the School of Learning, Development and Professional Practice at the Faculty of Education, University of Auckland.

    Focus on the Pisa “score” and the Pisa “rank” have led other countries to narrow their education agenda, effectively “teach to the test” and increase accountability and surveillance of teaching. There’s plenty of evidence that this doesn’t work.


    • karol 17.1

      When I was teaching back in the 80s and the UK government started on the foregrounding of testing – we all knew that too much testing takes the focus away from teaching to encourage real and significant learning. The evidence was there back then, but the “neolibs” just ignored it and wrote their own arguments/polices.

      • ianmac 17.1.1

        Actually to design a test pre-supposes that there are only right/wrong answers which rather defeats the purpose of discovery learning and self directed enquiry. There is of course a place for right/wrong answers (eg basic facts), but kids interested in their own enquiries will have a variety of answers to problem solving. Not easy to test.

        • karol

          exactly, ianmac.

          But also, the righties aren’t interested in the masses developing real learning and critical skills, only learning what they are told to learn for the tasks TPTB want them to do: authoritarian approach to “education” for the masses/workers, who must just learn to jump through the right hoops.

        • greywarbler

          I remember a question about the humourous point in a cartoon by Murray Ball on The Dog.
          I got a wrong answer. And thought how could that be. It is a personal response and there could be dozens of those depending on the main lines of culture the viewer came from.

  17. Tracey 18

    Molly they probably wont tell you on the basis it might influence yoyr answers


    I agree @ manual workers. But I dont subscribe to bms tell the punters what they want to hear and then consider the public good if you get elected. That is about spin and consealment and assumes punters are ignorant. Bms way treats it like a game. Its more important to win at all costs. Its why so many bms hate consultation and consensus cos they need to know who “won”.

    • BM 18.1

      I’m sorry, but the punters are complete fucking idiots.

      Go read the trade me general boards for a while, it’s a real eye opener on what Joe and Joanne Average consider important.

      Be warned though you may start to lose faith in humanity and suffer from intense urges of violence towards your fellow Man/Women.

      • captain hook 18.1.1

        the trade me boards are ameeting place for the scum of new zealand to air their bigotry and prejudices.
        any body who takes them seriously needs their head examined.

      • greywarbler 18.1.2


      • North 18.1.3

        BM – hangin’ out with the good folks on TS has improved your social/moral/emotional IQ outa sight ! We’ll travel to the voting booth together to cast two party votes for Mana then aye ?

  18. Tracey 19

    But not you aye bm

  19. Draco T Bastard 20

    Government awards more oil permits

    “The government is committed to developing our oil, gas and mineral resources in a sensible, safe and environmentally responsible way. Block Offer 2013 is delivering on that,” Mr Bridges said.

    Just doesn’t get it does he? There is no way to develop oil in an environmentally responsible way, not when the plan is to dig it up and burn it.

    • s y d 20.1

      A Radio New Zealand political reporter said the ceremony at Parliament was like an awards ceremony, with each successful company getting a round of applause from the 100 or so representatives from the petroleum industry there.

      Surpised they didn’t get Mark Richardson in to compere…

  20. i found this site where normal english is translated into death-metal english..


    “..Normal English: “You have to mow the lawn”

    Death Metal English:




    phillip ure..

    • greywarbler 21.1

      A primer for Mothers (and Fathers) attempting to establish communication channels with their young adults in the family so as to inspire enthusiasm for simple tasks around the home. Recommended by the Oxford Dictionary of Tomorrow’s In-Words and Phrases.

  21. greywarbler 22

    Just looking at The Daily Blog which is crowing about beating the standard after only 8 months.
    It has outstanding presentation but as I prefer limited hyperbole and exaggeration and less emotionally charged description, I find it a bit much.

    Reading Tim Selwyn is like watching a large boy trying to take over the school playground. Unpleasant in his rant about RadioNZ, and Chris Laidlaw was unreasonably flagged, not being Tim’s style. So therefore only 5 plus half people in Auckland could be interested.

    Too much regurgitation on that blog I think. I don’t want my news pecked out of the eyes of passing individuals and then fed into my open brain. Give me some facts and help me form a reasoned opinion rather than throw a full bladder at me that bursts leaving an unpleasant taste. How’s that for hyperbole and mixed metaphors and colourful description.

    • lprent 22.1

      It is “visits” that Open Parachute uses for ordering for some obscure reason. The problem is that “visits” are entirely variable depending on which measuring program is used and how the site is laid out.

      I run 3 different page and visit trackers here. One had last month at ~130k visits, one was at ~170k visits, one was at ~220k visits. That is just on the basis of how much time each “visit” is set to. For that matter you can set that time in two of these as well, which makes it a bit hard to do comparisons.

      They all roughly agree on numbers of page views. So that is what I tend to look at as well. The TDB is way behind on that. Looking at the PV/visit ratio I suspect that they are also way way behind the minutes per “visit” as well and I suspect that get a lot more quick browsers.

      It was a sluggish month last month. Lower numbers of posts posted after the Labour leadership stuff at the start of the month. Lower numbers of comments. And it is leading into xmas which in non-election years causes comments to drop.

      But it does give me a good reason to consider that the TDB startup time is over. I’ll put in the code for tabbing their feed into their own sections. Far too many repeats of other people’s press releases that I can’t seperate. Same for scoop. That will leave the smaller blogs with more real estate to be noticed in.

      • karol 22.1.1

        TDB also boosts it’s page views by re-posting various things including press releases from Labour & Green parties

        It’s not comparing like with like.

        Another difference is the lack of/limited amount of front page links to the latest comments on TDB. So one has to keep clicking back on posts to see if there are any more comments.

        • Draco T Bastard

          DTB also boosts it’s page views…

          It’s TDB and not DTB 😛

          Another difference is the lack of/limited amount of front page links to the latest comments on DTB. So one has to keep clicking back on posts to see if there are any more comments.


          It’s their bloody horrible layout and navigation that has pretty much stopped me going there.

          • karol

            🙂 I regularly reverse letters when typing – always need to properly proof read.

          • Murray Olsen

            Bomber’s unstated moderation policy and opinion that he is above criticism are coming close to stopping me. The layout also sucks. They do, however, have some good contributors.

            • Draco T Bastard

              They do have some good contributors but that isn’t really enough to keep me going back.

        • Naturesong

          There is the occasional article thats good on TDB, but the layout does not encourage feedback or any sort of critical discussion.

          It’s more like a notice board where if something interests you, you read it.
          I imagine that most of the views on any one page, are only viewed once by a visitor.
          There’s a fair amount of clickbait on there as well, copying WOBH modus operandi.

          The more time I’ve spent reading thestandard, the more impressed I am with the layout and functionality of the site. Particularly the ease with which you can read and engage in ongoing conversations.
          It presents as nice and clean, but theres a ton of functionality lurking just under the surface.

      • greywarbler 22.1.2

        Repeats of others comments. I was looking on google and went to NBR to look up their piece on the subject and all I found was links, no content to read that had their particular findings.
        Very strange. Not what I expect for a publication like the NBR newspaper.

        I think we are probabably wired to think, put DTB now. Pavlovian acshually.

    • Tracey 22.2

      I didnt know it was a competition

      • fender 22.2.1

        “Life is a competition… Not with others, but with ourselves. We should seek each day to live stronger, better, truer lives. Each to master some weakness of yesterday. Each day to repair a mistake; Each day to surpass ourselves.”

        -David B. Haight

    • Just checking to see whether I’m still banned from Martyn Bradbury’s ‘Daily Blog’ because he didn’t agree with my standing against Mana’s John Minto as a Mayoral candidate.

      PENNY BRIGHT says:
      Your comment is awaiting moderation.
      DECEMBER 5, 2013 AT 3:57 PM
      TESTING …… am I still banned / blocked?
      Penny Bright
      – See more at: http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2013/12/02/november-2013-blog-stats-the-daily-blog-now-largest-left-wing-blog-in-nz/#comment-151946

      (Checked, and this comment still appears to be ‘awaiting moderation’ …..)

      Having been a political activist since I was 18 years old (I’m now in my 59th year), I find this hypocrisy regarding purported ‘freedom of expression’, quite disturbing.

      And – I WILL ‘blow the whistle’ – when and where I see fit.

      So be it.


      Penny Bright

  22. amirite 23

    Has anyone asked Colin Cray about his views on vaccination? Just for the lulz..

  23. dv 24

    From the oh shit files
    HT Interest.co

    Today I found out that during the height of the Cold War, the US military put such an emphasis on a rapid response to an attack on American soil, that to minimize any foreseeable delay in launching a nuclear missile, for nearly two decades they intentionally set the launch codes at every silo in the US to 8 zeroes.

    ie 00000000 !!!

  24. Ake ake ake 25

    A comment from this side of the ditch to people back home –

    Labour was looking pretty on the ball after the leadership selection just recently.

    Now, with only a brief period to go before Christmas and before people switch off for the holidays, what is Labour’s narrative?

    Is Labour powerfully leading a clear and strong narrative, in a week that has been slightly distracted by what seems like an honest mistake over a tweet and then this morning’s eye-rolling policy announcement?

    Is Cunliffe well supported by his deputy and caucus and can his chief of staff and his chief press secretary/media director help craft something tactical as well as strategic before we knock off for the festive and holiday season?

    • greywarbler 25.1

      Has anyone thoughts about what ake asked? Before the holiday season?

      It definitely would be wise to make a plan as to releases and policy. The news is always hungry for content over the holiday season and will repeat stuff over and over again. Give them something good to repeat eh!

  25. Rogue Trooper 26

    Paper! Paper! Read all out about It! .

  26. s y d 27

    “New Zealanders expect sport to be played fairly and they expect sports men and women to perform – in a way which upholds the ethics of their sport and not to be doing it to make money in an underhand way. It would be a very, very serious issue indeed if it is proved to be correct.”

    if we replaced ‘sport’ and ‘sportsmen and women’ with ministers of the crown would it make any difference?

  27. ScottGN 28

    Questioning from NZFirst MP Tracey Martin to Hekia Parata today has revealed that the Minister doesn’t even know if contractual arrangements around the Charter Schools programme allows the Ministry of Education to seize assets (paid for by the taxpayer) in the event that the charter school goes broke or collapses.

    • JK 28.1

      The part I found most fascinating ScottGN in those questions was the possibility that the charter school given the funds has bought 81 hectares of Northland farm land with it, and has no money left to build proper school buildings so is putting up portloos and portacoms. Parata didn’t know the answers to questions about this by Tracey Martin …. so either its happened, or it hasn’t …. and we’ll have to wait until someone else questions Parata for further details.

    • greywarbler 28.2

      Just shows that NZ First have got something to offer. Unlike the other individuals in the sack race, lost their cloth, lost the ashes.

  28. ScottGN 29

    Oh dear. Apparently NORAD has decided that Santa needs a fighter escort, in spite of the fact that he must be going faster than any fighter plane currently in service.

  29. Morrissey 30

    “That Prince Harry is one TOUGH customer!”
    Uttering inane platitudes is not always an easy task

    Television One Breakfast, Thursday 5 December 2013, 8:08 a.m.

    Last item on the news ends with a dramatic long shot of human figures walking across an icy landscape. It’s a PR piece about Prince Harry racing to the South Pole with injured servicemen to raise money for the charity Walking with the Wounded. Apparently, just as Nero used to win the chariot races at the Olympics, this modern-day Milo of Croton is coming first in this icy race.

    However, far from being impressed, the Television One Breakfast crew are, to put it charitably, lukewarm in their response to this royal hero….

    NADINE CHALMERS-ROSS: That Prince Harry is one TOUGH customer!

    ….[Awkward extended silence]….

    TONI STREET: He sure is.

    ….[Further awkward silence]….

    SAM WALLACE: Do you think they’re all letting him win because he’s royal?

    TONI STREET: Oh no no no! He’s a very fit soldier!

    RAWDON CHRISTIE: He’s a VERY fit man!

    TONI STREET: He’s got a bit of MONGREL in him!

    NADINE CHALMERS-ROSS: Oh yes, yes, yes.

    ….[More dutiful murmuring, followed by further awkward silence]….

    RAWDON CHRISTIE: Okay, it’s time for the weather, Sam….

    • greywarbler 30.1

      Morrisey why do you do it? I know after reading that I never want to watch Breakfast Television as it might be bad for the television and costly for me – break fast…..
      What puerile stuff. Your brain must be turning to raspberry spaghetti.

      Of course it is so cool for today’s free-thinking young people to scorn royalty. Just like the funny ones on Oz radio ringing about Kate’s condition, and ending up besmirching a high achiever’s reputation so that the nurse concerned couldn’t face the shame of being made to look ridiculous in that way and killed herself. The young people of today…. The comfortably off, who have never had to sweat their guts out to get on, don’t take anything too seriously.

    • Ake ake ake 30.2

      Family members, lovers or flatmates who are having breakfast would do considerably better to spend their precious time by having a conversation among themselves, with the tv OFF.

  30. fender 31

    Charter School Scam :

    “Ms Martin asked Ms Parata whether she knew the charter school being set up by Nga Parirau Matauranga Trust had spent its more than $1.6 million from the Government on 81 hectares of farmland and now didn’t have enough money to build the school.”

  31. Plan B 33


    interest.co.nz is not usually known for its leftward leanings but the comment stream on this one is worth reading to see what i think could be called a real swing to the left

  32. greywarbler 34

    I’ve just been listening to Bryan Crump interview Nigel Turvey from Charles Darwin University which i feel is probably in Queensland. I think he has written a book on cane toads. There is a rich history behind their introduction around the world and particularly in queensland.

    Some trivia. The sugar cane industry was introduced by two ex army men one called Hope and the other Wish. (Spelling?) The releasing of toads was resisted by the head of the entomology of the then CSIRO whose name was Froggett. But disagreeing with him was a Mr Ribbett. Quite amusing connections there.

    The scientist who dissected 300 toads found some cane beetles in their stomachs and concluded they would be a suitable control on the beetles. Which only come out of the ground for a day mate and then go back underground where they live in their thousands and eat the roots of the cane. They have only been researched in 1995 by the government, 60 years after they were introduced. Gardeners loved them because they were so good at keeping slugs and snails down.

    He made the point that when there is such a groundswell of acceptance of anything it is hard to give proper consideration to the overview of whatever.

    • exkiwiforces 34.1

      Charles Darwin University is located in Darwin NT not Queensland and those bloody Cane Toads are moving south and west ie Northern Western Australia. The F-ing Toads around where I work and are at our friends cattle Station just out of Katherine.
      They are making a mess along with the feral cats in Armhem land just the ferrets/cats and bunnies do back home in NZ.

  33. karol 35

    Simon Bridges website hacked simulated by green activists;


    Going up in smoke 4 oil.

    PS; That’s a pretty cool effect.

    Go Greenpeace!

    The real Simon Bridges site.


  34. tricledrown 37

    You may want to consider a name change BM
    British Movement far right facist
    gang .

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