Open mike 06/02/2013

113 comments on “Open mike 06/02/2013 ”

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1. jimgreen 1

   6 February 2013 at 6:27 am

   Only one of these provides good advice

   For the uninitiated and those looking for good advice see: reddit
2. ianmac 2

   6 February 2013 at 9:30 am

   “British lawmakers on have voted overwhelmingly in favour of a bill to legalize same-sex marriage championed by Prime Minister David Cameron,………..lawmakers voted 400 to 175”
   http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10863748
   Wonder if this will happen so conclusively here or are we more conservative than UK?
3. Bill 3

   6 February 2013 at 9:45 am

   Oh fuck. Is that really an email from David Shearer ‘personally’ – ie, they’ve gone to the bother of inserting christian names in the subject linen – wishing me a ‘Happy Waitangi Day’?

   Yes it is.
   • Visubversaviper 3.1

     6 February 2013 at 9:55 am

     Got one too, and one for my beloved as well.
     General mailout.
   • Colonial Viper 3.2

     6 February 2013 at 10:01 am

     Well Bill, you got to be glad to see the improvement in IT capability, right? Yeah I got the email(s) from Shearer as well.

     Didn’t this “Happy Waitangi Day” idea pop up last year with Shearer as well?
     • Colonial Weka 3.2.1

       6 February 2013 at 10:25 am

       Does it have a ‘reply to’ function?

       😈
       • Colonial Viper 3.2.1.1

         6 February 2013 at 11:09 am

         CW, to pass on your congratulations for winning the confidence of caucus I’m sure.
         • Jenny 3.2.1.1.1

           6 February 2013 at 1:11 pm

           A sure footed Key sensing the nation’s mood over Waitangi, wipes the floor with Shearer.

           Mr Key said previous Governments and others had tried to create a sense of “national participation” on the day.

           “It would be good to see, but I’m not sure that we can or should try to force it. We are not by nature a nation of flag-wavers.”

           Labour leader David Shearer has used the past two Waitangi Days to call for the day to be celebrated in a more positive way, using Australia Day as an example.

           However, Mr Key said there was no other day on which the weight of history was felt quite so heavily.

           “It is marked across an emotional spectrum that ranges from great passion among some of those gathered here, to indifference from those Kiwis whose sole interest in the day is encompassed by the weather forecast.”

           Claire Trevett NZ Herald deputy political editor
           • Colonial Viper 3.2.1.1.1.1

             6 February 2013 at 1:21 pm

             Yeah Key and his PR team still do their job well. Of that there is no doubt.
             • Jenny …

               6 February 2013 at 1:26 pm

               I dread the day there is ever a head to head leaders debate. Unfortunately, going on current performance it most likely will result in a Key walkover.
           • bad12 3.2.1.1.1.2

             6 February 2013 at 1:29 pm

             Jenny, are you planning on voting for Slippery at the next election then???…
             • Jenny …

               6 February 2013 at 3:18 pm

               No. But I imagine that on David Shearer’s woeful performance to date, a lot of people might. And a lot who would vote Labour will stay at home on the day.

               Leadership is important, and Labour’s best leader is on the back bench replaced by some sort of politically inexperienced back room international conservative bureaucrat, who has been parachuted in, despite being completely lacking in charisma and with no obvious aptitude for the job.
               • bad12 …

                 6 February 2013 at 3:40 pm

                 Yes they will be voting Slippery for what he might,depending of course upon the NZ Supreme Court, put into their back pockets, Labour having failed to move them with a prior bid on providing cheap home ownership,

                 Oh well to sidestep such defeatism as you express you can always console yourself that the other Dave will get His chance after November 2014 if your scenario turns out to be correct, and score the odd ‘i told you’ so brownie point in the process,

                 How’s the formation of the Alternative Green die in the ditch Party going???…
                 • Jenny …

                   6 February 2013 at 5:59 pm

                   How’s the formation of the Alternative Green die in the ditch Party going???…

                   bad12

                   Such a party only exists in your hopeful imagination. Unlike the real life Green Party, which with its “pragmatic” approach, of down playing climate change, will condemn many to die in a ditch – literally.
                   • Colonial Viper …

                     6 February 2013 at 6:08 pm

                     The long term sustainable population of this planet is under 2B, at a rough estimate. We’ve overshot that by 5B already, and climbing.

                     Regardless of what the pollies do – which I am betting is closer to nothing than something – we are going to lose a lot of people eventually.
                   • Jenny …

                     6 February 2013 at 7:58 pm

                     1/ If you do not fight when you can easily win

                     2/ If you will not fight, when your victory is sure and not to costly

                     3/ You may come to a moment, when you will have to fight, with all the odds against you and only a slim chance of victory.

                     There may even be a worse case…..

                     4/ You will have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to die fighting, than to die surrendering.

                     W.S.C.

                     I have a question for you CV.

                     At which stage of the struggle against climate change do you think we are at now?
                   • Colonial Weka …

                     6 February 2013 at 8:12 pm

                     Where does the 2B figure come from CV?
                   • Colonial Viper …

                     6 February 2013 at 8:25 pm

                     CW: fossil fuels allows us to greatly multiply out the carrying capacity of the Earth – temporarily. You cannot harvest and process as many tonnes of wheat in a day from a hectare by hand or with horses, as you can with diesel.

                     Check out these links

                     http://www.holon.se/folke/kurs/logexp/carrying.shtml

                     http://canada.theoildrum.com/node/2516

                     In 100 hundred years I’m fairly confident that the world’s population will be closer to 2B than 10B.
                   • Colonial Viper …

                     6 February 2013 at 8:27 pm

                     I have a question for you CV.

                     At which stage of the struggle against climate change do you think we are at now?

                     The human race lost this one 5-10 years ago. Now some mitigation and a lot of adaptation is what we need to get on with.
                 • David H …

                   6 February 2013 at 8:13 pm

                   And if Slippery gets back into power, then there will be NO power companies (all sold off) , The conservation areas will be strip mined for coal, and our coastlines blighted with oil rigs. and they will keep on borrowing until we are like Ireland was, and then the vultures will come in and strip out anything of value IE: Kiwi Fund and the Cullen fund, and then there will be nothing left and the greedies will be happy and look on a job well done. Thats what we have to look forward to.
                   • Jenny …

                     6 February 2013 at 9:49 pm

                     Now some mitigation and a lot of adaptation is what we need to get on with.

                     Colonial Viper

                     Oh really?

                     Though you didn’t answer the question it sounds to me what you are really advocating is that we die surrendering. Even though in my opinion we are only at somewhere between stage 2/ and stage 3/.

                     Over many threads you have always argued for doing nothing to fight climate change. And you are still at it.

                     And since I don’t see any indication of the this mitigation work starting now. I presume you mean to leave this up to future generations as well.

                     And do you think these 3 or 4 billion human beings you dismiss so casually, will just go off and die quietly. Leaving us here in lifeboat New Zealand to go about building dykes and storm shelters?

                     Advocate surrendering if you like. Personally I am with Naomi Klein.

                     “I’d Rather Fight Like Hell”
                   • Colonial Viper …

                     7 February 2013 at 12:01 am

                     Over many threads you have always argued for doing nothing to fight climate change. And you are still at it.

                     Arguing against your suggestions of bailing out the Titanic with a tin cup is actually very easy to do.

                     Advocate surrendering if you like. Personally I am with Naomi Klein.

                     Good on ya. Hope that works out well for you. I read she’s great company.
           • Chris 3.2.1.1.1.3

             6 February 2013 at 5:46 pm

             Good ole Claire!!!
4. Te Reo Putake 4

   6 February 2013 at 10:15 am

   A great idea from Aussie union leader Dave Oliver; transferable work benefits. The ACTU want workers to take leave and other entitlements with them when they change jobs. Nice reminder of what a plonker Tony Abbott is, too.

   http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/political-news/union-fight-on-work-rights-20130205-2dwn7.html
5. fatty 5

   6 February 2013 at 11:01 am

   bad day for KP
   Socially corrosive…wah wah wah
6. blue leopard 6

   6 February 2013 at 11:57 am

   @ lprent

   I no longer receive notifications of replies to posts I have commented on despite the fact that I tick the “please notify me” box. I rather liked this function. This started [not] happening over the last month or so.

   I am on Safari 5.1.7 and wondering if there is something from my side that is causing this; a setting I can change? My email is gmail and same question goes for that; is there a setting I can change?
   • Murray Olsen 6.1

     6 February 2013 at 3:39 pm

     I run Firefox on a Mac and the same thing has happened.
     • LynWiper 6.1.1

       6 February 2013 at 3:53 pm

       We run Firefox on a PC running Windows 7, I have a gmail address and have not been getting threads for quite sometime. I assumed it was because the service was no longer offered.
       • bad12 6.1.1.1

         6 February 2013 at 4:01 pm

         Yeah i am running Firefox on the same and i am HAPPY that the flood of emails hitting my inbox has stopped, i like to take the time to scroll down the whole posts to have a good look at where the conversations in any particular thread are heading,
         • blue leopard 6.1.1.1.1

           6 February 2013 at 10:01 pm

           lol, I sometimes found it annoying too! Yet overall I ended up reading more comments when they arrived via email!
7. Nicolas 7

   6 February 2013 at 1:02 pm

   “Self-interest drives OIA review”
   http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10863710

   “Opposition parties were split on whether scrutiny of Parliament should increase.

   The Green Party supported the proposal to extend the OIA to parliamentary business, but the Labour Party did not.

   Labour’s open government spokeswoman, Clare Curran, said her party instead supported proactive release of documents to a dedicated website.”

   As far as I’m concerned, that’s another point for the Greens. I’ve always been of the opinion that our views on politics should start from the assumption that politicians are NOT to be trusted and so it only seems logical to me that the more transparent a government is, the better it is for the people.

   The level of accountability a government is “burdened” with only becomes indeed a burden if transparency is extreme. People (and by “people”, I mean politicians) always say that too much transparency means a government can’t function properly but I’m yet to see a government that’s failed because of the public knowing “too much”. Correct me if I’m wrong bu isn’t it usually the opposite that applies?

   When issues like that are raised, I always remember mom asking, at a parent-teacher reunion years ago, for details on what one of my teacher’s plan for the year was. Her reply was “trust me”. Yep, the Brazilian educational system is great.
   • bad12 7.1

     6 February 2013 at 1:38 pm

     Yep another point to the Green Party, as a well entrenched Party in the Parliament the Green Party has nothing it want’s hidden while it is an Opposition Party and even less it want’s hidden at any point that the Green Party is part of a Government,

     Labour can only recoup the lost point IF the statement by Clare Curran means that ALL Government documentation is released within a reasonable time-frame to a dedicated web-site,

     If the proposed release is to include ALL Government documents within a reasonable time-frame then that is one of the better ideas that have come out of Labour for quite some time,

     I would expect such releases to include Cabinet notes from the pen of the Cabinet Secretary as well…
     • alwyn 7.1.1

       6 February 2013 at 2:34 pm

       You will cause the previous Labour Prime Minister extreme palpitations if your proposal was actioned.
       I understand that her papers were handed over to the National Archives with the provision that they were not to be released for 100 years. I’m not sure that that would be classed as a “reasonable time frame”.
       • bad12 7.1.1.1

         6 February 2013 at 3:55 pm

         Lolz, yeah the comment is from the school of wishful thinking, but, we would expect that such a web-site would have revelations only from the time of it’s start date and other stuff prior to that would still be the subject of official information act requests,

         The problem of course being who would police such a web-site to ensure it actually contained all the information required of it…
     • AmaKiwi 7.1.2

       6 February 2013 at 3:25 pm

       I’d settle for the release of the names of those “high ranking Labour MPs” who did the character assassination on Cunliffe when he was in Europe.

       Or maybe Claire Curren could “officially inform” us who inspired her to try to drive Colonial Viper out of the LP.

       Keep truckin’ Greens. You are only 14 MPs but you’re the only real opposition party we’ve got.
       • bad12 7.1.2.1

         6 February 2013 at 3:56 pm

         Can i ask you,are you a member, of the Labour Party that is…
       • blue leopard 7.1.2.2

         6 February 2013 at 10:25 pm

         Well said AmaKiwi
         +1
   • millsy 7.2

     6 February 2013 at 8:02 pm

     “Labour’s open government spokeswoman, Clare Curran, said her party instead supported proactive release of documents to a dedicated website.””

     Something that I support as well. I have found out a lot of interesting stuff from the OIA requests I have been placing over the past couple of months…
8. ScottGN 8

   6 February 2013 at 2:25 pm

   The Los Angeles Times is reporting the State of California is set to sue Standard and Poor’s for 4 billion dollars.

   “California has filed suit against Wall Street’s biggest credit rating agency, Standard & Poor’s, charging the firm with violating the state’s False Claims Act by using “magic numbers” and “guesses” to inflate ratings that ultimately cost California public pension funds an estimated $1 billion.

   The action was filed Tuesday in San Francisco Superior Court and came a day after federal prosecutors filed suit against the bond-rating agency, alleging that S&P gave top marks to troubled mortgage-backed securities that later failed, helping to trigger the financial crisis.”
   • blue leopard 8.1

     6 February 2013 at 3:09 pm

     @ScottGN
     That sounds like a promising move. Cheers for the info.
   • Tiresias 8.2

     6 February 2013 at 3:11 pm

     Don’t hold your breath.

     The New York Times reports that the suit was filed because settlement negotiations fell apart:

     “Settlement talks between S.& P. and the Justice Department broke down in the last two weeks after prosecutors sought a penalty in excess of $1 billion and insisted that the company admit wrongdoing, several people with knowledge of the talks said. That amount would wipe out the profits of McGraw-Hill for an entire year. S.& P. had proposed a settlement of around $100 million, the people said.

     S.& P. also sought a deal that would allow it to neither admit nor deny guilt; the government pressed for an admission of guilt to at least one count of fraud, said the people. S.& P. told prosecutors it could not admit guilt without exposing itself to liability in a multitude of civil cases.”

     Incredibly, earlier attempts to sue ratings agencies for garbage ratings – supplied to purveyors of garbage for breath-taking fees and then trumpeted by said garbage-purveyors as ‘confirmation of rock-solid security’ – failed when the agencies claimed the protection of the First Amendment: ie freedom of speech! However it appears to be different this time, as the DoJ is claiming that S&P falsely represented to investors that its ratings were objective, independent and uninfluenced by any conflicts of interest; ie it seems to believe it can prove S&P didn’t believe what it was saying:

     http://www.businessweek.com/news/2013-02-05/s-and-p-won-t-employ-first-amendment-defense-in-u-dot-s-dot-ratings-lawsuit

     Among the flies in the ointment, though, is the fact that this really deflects attention away from the real guilty parties – the banks who knowing issued the garbage – and even offers them a defence as if anyone would really believe they were also taken in by S&P et al’s green-lighting their own products.

     Moreover S&P and the other Agencies are already badly tainted so even if this goes against them, just watch them quietly fold, to rise again in six-months under a new name and, er, ‘business model’ washed shiny new.
     • Colonial Viper 8.2.1

       6 February 2013 at 3:16 pm

       Also, the Administration and the Fed hold a serious grudge against S&P for downgrading US debt.

       Edit. Also note that it’s been years since these crimes were committed – 2007 and before. Further why aren’t S&P’s paying clients, the big banks who asked for these securities to be rated, also being prosecuted.
       • Tiresias 8.2.1.1

         6 February 2013 at 3:38 pm

         “Further why aren’t S&P’s paying clients, the big banks who asked for these securities to be rated, also being prosecuted.” – Colonial Viper

         Ahem. A cynic might respond that the banks knew perfectly well these securities were garbage, and that they were knowingly ‘bribing’ the agencies for false favourable ratings. If the banks took action against the ratings agencies it would be thief against thief, and all likely come out in the wash. Hence their silence.

         What is more puzzling is why none of the very big trust and pension funds etc. in the US who lost out badly in the crash haven’t brought this action. As I wrote, previous attempts have been made but were lost because, essentially, the ratings agencies were able to claim that all they were promulgating was their opinion which is, of course, no better than anybody else’s and they couldn’t be held responsible for it.

         What’s really interesting in this case is that the prosecution is going for the fact that the agency actually knew the rating was false – ie a deliberate fraud – rather than just a lazy and/or incompetent opinion.
         • Colonial Viper 8.2.1.1.1

           6 February 2013 at 4:00 pm

           There was far more deliberate fraud than this going on in the ratings agencies. Of course in a prosecution like this, the DoJ may simply choose to prosecute the best representative instances.

           However, in this talk, Bill Black makes it very clear that executives all through these ratings agencies knew what was going on, but given that their jobs and their bonuses depended on keeping their clients happy…

           http://vimeo.com/10239575
     • blue leopard 8.2.2

       6 February 2013 at 3:24 pm

       Lol, yep, don’t think I would hold my breath over anything to do with big money interests re-addressing their iniquities entirely! Yet, surely the more they do this type of litigation (and its being reported in newspapers), the more chance there is of more people realizing what cons are going on…perhaps….perhaps?…and only then, when public awareness is sufficient, is there a chance that the cons will be put a stop to?
   • alwyn 8.3

     6 February 2013 at 3:20 pm

     The US Government , as you mention, is bringing fraud charges against S & P.
     This suit looks awfully like political payback for S & P dropping the US credit rating from its AAA value. Two other credit rating companies also gave the same ratings to the mortgage backed securities. They were Fitch and Moodys. The US Justice Department is NOT claiming fraud by them. It is interesting that they did not lower the US rating from its AAA level.
     Just coincidence you think? Political revenge seems much more likely. It’s rather like the way that, under most Presidents, the IRS selectively audits the President’s political opponents.

     As I was typing this CV has also published this view. Oh well I’ll leave mine here and not waste the typing
     • Colonial Viper 8.3.1

       6 February 2013 at 3:30 pm

       You’re on to it mate. Check this out. Multi-millionaire hedge fund owner Michael Burry, formerly of Scion Capital, makes similar points about how he was targeted by the Feds.

       http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CLhqjOzoyE
       • AmaKiwi 8.3.1.1

         7 February 2013 at 12:18 am

         Colonial Viper, excellent link.

         Burry is right. We have been through the first crash. Everyone seems to have forgotten what happened only 5 years ago. It was followed by a struggling rally which is not a rally at all when you discount it for inflation. The next crash is imminent, a financial perfect storm. It will make 2007-2009 look like a summer shower. There will be massive political upheavals. The question is whether NZ becomes more democratic or more dictatorial. That will be our real challenge.
     • Tiresias 8.3.2

       6 February 2013 at 3:44 pm

       “Just coincidence you think?” – alwyn.

       Yes. The action in this case is based on a very few actual securities only S&P rated, so only S&P can be sued. Moreover the Feds are only involved because the institution that lost money was federally insured, so the State lost money.

       According to the NYT:

       “The government is taking a novel approach by accusing S.& P. of defrauding a federally insured institution and therefore injuring the taxpayer.

       Among others, the compliant includes the demise of Wescorp, a federally insured credit union in Los Angeles that went bankrupt after investing in mortgage securities rated by S.& P. Wescorp is included as one example of the contended fraud, and as a way to bring the case in California. The suit was filed in Federal District Court for the Central District of California.”

       However if this approach is successful watch the floodgates open.
       • Colonial Viper 8.3.2.1

         6 February 2013 at 3:54 pm

         Yes. The action in this case is based on a very few actual securities only S&P rated, so only S&P can be sued. Moreover the Feds are only involved because the institution that lost money was federally insured, so the State lost money.

         I believe your reasoning falls down as the Federal Govt also lost a shedload of money in Freddie/Fannie and AIG due to securities fraudulently rated by many different ratings agencies.

         Perhaps these may be other cases in the pipeline or some cases which may have already been settled out of court.

         The GFC is notable for the very small number of top financial executives who have been jailed. Compare this to the S&L scandal in the 90’s where hundreds of executives were sent to jail.
         • Tiresias 8.3.2.1.1

           6 February 2013 at 4:31 pm

           “I believe your reasoning falls down as the Federal Govt also lost a shedload of money in Freddie/Fannie and AIG due to securities fraudulently rated by many different ratings agencies.” – Colonial Viper.

           I was claim otherwise. As regards Fannie and Freddie these were Goverment Sponsored Enterprises before the Government had to to take them over in part because of their losses on these garbage securities, so leading with them might raise awkward questions about (the lack of) Government supervision when these things were purchased. (And the aforementioned cynic might also suggest that perhaps certain individuals at the Fed. knew more about what was going on with Government-backed bodies buying top-price garbage from the banks than they would want coming to light now.)

           As regards AIG its HQ is in New York, and I think the DoJ has very good reason for wanting to try this out in California rather than NY Courts.

           Taking the action they have is nice and ‘safe’, in that it’s nice and far from Washington involving low-level players who aren’t likey to have any dirty Washington laundry to hang out.

           My pet cynic might also pipe up that the most likely outcome of this action is to force S&P back to the negotiating table to agree a nice quiet settlement in which no-one who matters gets hurt.
9. Draco T Bastard 9

   6 February 2013 at 2:37 pm

   Inequality for All – another Inconvenient Truth?

   How did you even come up with the idea of making a film about economics? I ask the director Jacob Kornbluth. “I know! People would roll their eyes when I told them. They’d say it’s a terrible idea for a film.” On paper it is, indeed, a terrible idea. A 90-minute documentary on income inequality: or why the rich have got richer and the rest of us haven’t (I say “us” because although it’s focused on America, we’re snapping at their heels) and which traces a line back to the 1970s, when things stopped getting better for the vast majority of ordinary working people and started getting worse.

   “It always sounded so dry,” says Kornbluth. “But then I’d tell people it’s An Inconvenient Truth for the economy and they’d go, Ah!”

   Sounds like a documentary to watch out for.
10. Draco T Bastard 10

    6 February 2013 at 2:58 pm

    Tsunami Waring

    A tsunami watch was issued for the rest of the South Pacific nations and islands, including Australia, New Zealand and Indonesia.

    That earthquake was damn shallow as well – a mere 5km and 8 magnitude.
    • Pete 10.1

      6 February 2013 at 4:08 pm

      The Ministry of Civil Defence & Emergency Management (MCDEM) has issued a Tsunami Potential Threat to New Zealand advisory for North Cape, Auckland West, East Cape, Gisborne, Auckland East, New Plymouth, Wellington.

      The Potential Threat advisory will remain in effect until:

      It is upgraded to a Tsunami Warning, or
      A cancellation message is issued by MCDEM.

      MCDEM and scientific advisors are in the process of assessing the situation to determine the severity of the threat to New Zealand. Updates will be issued at least hourly.

      MCDEM

      Hopefully we can get help to the Pacific in fairly short order.
      • Colonial Viper 10.1.1

        6 February 2013 at 4:28 pm

        On an associated note, we’ve got to significantly build up NZ’s military and humanitarian capabilities to respond to these regional emergencies rapidly and thoroughly.
11. bad12 11

    6 February 2013 at 4:16 pm

    It is with sadness that i hear the news of the death of the construction company Mainzeal a player in the construction industry here in NZ for 40 years,

    Placed into receivership today it is likely that this will result in the direct loss of another 400 jobs in the economy,

    Also effected will be another 400 (at least), jobs as those contractors and sub-contractors who relied upon Mainzeal for work will now have none and are likely to be severely effected financially by the receivership of the company,

    My second job as a youngster was as a labourer for Mainzeal putting the roof on the Waitangirua shopping mall…
    • Tiresias 11.1

      6 February 2013 at 4:39 pm

      With an entire city to rebuild, how the hell can a construction company go into receivership?
      • Colonial Viper 11.1.1

        6 February 2013 at 4:50 pm

        This is an economy of winners and losers. In this case, a very few big winners, and also some big losers.
        • Tim 11.1.1.1

          6 February 2013 at 5:10 pm

          Exactery! One thing that’s always amused me about the Nats and their ideology: They profess to be supporters of a free-market and champions of campetition, YET all the while shitting on small businesses, allowing take-overs and mergers and everything that results in the tendency towards monopolistic/duopolistic behaviour.
          Thankfully now even the small business owner and the corner dairy are beginning to realise they’re full of shit.
          I’m of the belief that monopolies (natural or otherwise – such as a rail network, or power grid, or telecommunications backbone, or water and gas reticuation) either need to be heavily regulated, OR better still – publicly owned.
          • Tim 11.1.1.1.1

            6 February 2013 at 5:19 pm

            BTW (as they say in the connected world) Hopefully at the moment, people realise Fletchers and Fulton Hogan are those currently in favour.
          • Draco T Bastard 11.1.1.1.2

            6 February 2013 at 6:31 pm

            I’m of the belief that monopolies (natural or otherwise – such as a rail network, or power grid, or telecommunications backbone, or water and gas reticuation) either need to be heavily regulated, OR better still – publicly owned.

            Public ownership is the best option. The heavy regulation and the needed regulators makes the faux competition we end up with far more expensive.
          • geoff 11.1.1.1.3

            6 February 2013 at 10:11 pm

            I know, it’s almost as if they’re…..lying!
      • bad12 11.1.2

        6 February 2013 at 6:58 pm

        Fletcher Building has been selected as the main contractor for the Christchurch rebuild, i don’t know if any of this main contractor stuff was put out to competitive tender,

        Having such a rebuild and having Ozzy as a default option provides some hope of work for the employees of Mainzeal and even some of the subbie’s involved,

        There is tho a world of dislocation involved in packing up and moving to Christchurch and many looking at the cost of doing this along with the cost of accommodation and wage structures will probably just leg it to Australia,

        I worked for Mainzeal on a number of construction jobs round Wellington or for Mainzeal subbie’s, the Todd Motors build of the assembly plant was a eye opener for me as there must have been some form of labour agreement where X amount of labourers would be on the job, the boss would show up in the morning and direct me to bolt 16 bolts onto the hanging bases for the spray equipment and then disappear for the day,

        That was my whole days work which was over in like half an hour,we labourers would amuse ourselves with little pastimes such as capturing any labourers from other subbies that happened to stray into our turf and if they had steel capped boots with the cap on the outside we would hold them down and weld their boots together,

        Working for the steel subbie on Wellington’s St pats college taught me to never turn your back on a mobile crane as the boss had me hook up way too much steel on the chains and i just about wore the mobile crane jib on my nut as it tipped over,

        Lolz, Haere Ra Mainzeal Construction it was nice knowing you…
      • blue leopard 11.1.3

        6 February 2013 at 10:09 pm

        @Tiresias 11.1
        +1
    • Draco T Bastard 11.2

      6 February 2013 at 4:53 pm

      And those contractors and sub-contractors are unsecured creditors so they won’t be getting the money for the work that they’ve done.
    • Paul 11.3

      6 February 2013 at 5:17 pm

      And people like Farrar try to spin the line “Is the manufacturing crisis manufactured?”
      How do people like him sleep at night?
      Unbelievable.
      • Tim 11.3.1

        6 February 2013 at 5:22 pm

        I imagine they sleep quite easily – they’re not critical thinkers and with fuck all life experience – they’ve learned their ideology just as a parrot does. Polly wanna cracker…?
        • Paul 11.3.1.1

          6 February 2013 at 5:27 pm

          Who is Farrar’s paymaster?
          • Tim 11.3.1.1.1

            6 February 2013 at 5:35 pm

            several I suspect. If I was so inclined to give the silly little munter an nano-eon of my time, no doubt it could be determined. I avoid even clicking on anything that has “kiwiblog’ because I wouldn’t want to provide him with the statistics he uses to justify himself
      • Poission 11.3.2

        6 February 2013 at 8:55 pm

        And people like Farrar try to spin the line “Is the manufacturing crisis manufactured?”

        It is another example of Farrar,using incoherent statistics to a problem.Which is good reason for not listening or following the statistical analysis’s of any of the sockpuppets.
    • Chris 11.4

      6 February 2013 at 6:07 pm

      That’s allright! According to national party there are plenty more jobs out there!If there aren’t it must be Labours fault, or the Christchurch Earthquake,or the recession,or,or,or, oh anything that comes to mind.It certainly isn’t the fault of or courageous leader who apparently will “go down in history”(his words) for going to Waitangi year after year for some obscure reason.Escorted by how many DPS at big cost to the country!!!!!(I’m so brave) Anything to gazump David Shearers overnight stay at the Ratana Pa. Anyhow, if he is so courageous,how come he is the first to scuttle out of Parliament when he is caught out with many of his LIES!! Bart S Key. The man is tedious. AND he has a bad hairpiece.In the sunlight it is the same colour as maggie berrys dyed hair.
    • blue leopard 11.5

      6 February 2013 at 10:06 pm

      More job losses FFS.
      Guess when the mining magnates arrive all “the people” will be ripe and ready to condemn any protests because they want jobs (which they won’t get anyway).
      Nice and pliable. That’s how they want us. That’s how they are going to get us.
      Cheers National, you really are the pits and thanks to all the people who voted for them for being so intensely gullible too.
12. cricklewood 12

    6 February 2013 at 5:03 pm

    Probably the effects of the last few years catching up with them, There was some crazy pricing going on when work was scarce. One project I know of was signed up completely tag free with no a ability to come back for time extensions due to weather. Basically madness when there are 1000’s of cubic meters of topsoil to be spread and hundreds of m2’s of concreting with a completion date in august. Coupled with a specification which forebode topsoil work in inclement weather.
    I don’t know what was worked out in the end around penalties but I do know the project finished at least 2 months late and they were very late paying sub contractors. From what I was told they were holding the final payment from the principal as long as possible to claw back lost funds through interest. Made life bloody tough for a subs and suppliers of said subs…
    At least there will be work to go into for most, although it will put downward pressure on wages with a bunch of skilled guys entering the job market and Fletchers are sharks…
    • Herodotus 12.1

      6 February 2013 at 6:40 pm

      Only problem is that there will be plenty of pain for sunnies as they will be the o es who suffer by being paid only a % of what is owed if at all, and any payment will be years away. Pity that I imagine that t he coy had been trading whilst insolvent that there will be little recourse form coy representatives, how often are managers/directors help accountable ? but may creditors suffer.
      Just as we’ll the banks are well protected !!!
13. North 13

    6 February 2013 at 6:21 pm

    Did I hear Shearer on 3 News saying “we all agree……” re Key’s Waitangi comments about activists ?
    • felixviper 13.1

      6 February 2013 at 6:26 pm

      Would that surprise you?

      After all, people like Key. If Shearer just agrees with what Key says then obviously people will like him too.

      That’s how popularity works, right?
      • mickysavage 13.1.1

        6 February 2013 at 6:59 pm

        In the walnut sized minds of a few MPs and staffers yes. But to the rest of us no …

        What exactly did Shearer agree with Key about?
        • Pascal's bookie 13.1.1.1

          6 February 2013 at 7:18 pm

          That activists should be careful because although Maori have legitimate grievances if marrys get too uppity white folk will lose the good will so watch out, shut up and don’t be so uppity.
          • mickysavage 13.1.1.1.1

            6 February 2013 at 7:20 pm

            Please, please say that is not a verbatim quote …
            • Pascal's bookie 13.1.1.1.1.1

              6 February 2013 at 7:27 pm

              Not verbatim.
              • Anne …

                6 February 2013 at 7:49 pm

                Oh, thank God for that. 😯
                • mickysavage …

                  6 February 2013 at 7:59 pm

                  I just saw it. The video is at http://www.3news.co.nz/John-Key-says-Waitangi-protesters-short-sighted/tabid/370/articleID/285785/Default.aspx

                  Key with a very calculated blow of the dog whistle almost said stuff that was really rascist and demeaning. It is as if he turned his IQ down and then said some stuff that would appeal to inhabitants of swinging vote suburbia.

                  It is hard to put Shearer’s response in context or detail what he was replying to but he did say “if you are going to say these sorts of things fair enough and we all feel that way. But do it down on the Marae, not as you are going to get on a plane and fly out of here”.

                  Shearer needs to do way better than that. When Key does some racist dog whistling Shearer should never, ever say that “we all feel that way”.
                  • VivaciousViper …

                    6 February 2013 at 8:09 pm

                    That’s unbelievable, Shearer, what a thing to say, you’re not speaking for me,i
                    think Key’s yapade was disgraceful and showed a lack of respect,the
                    same for the clown waiting to be our PM.
                  • Colonial Viper …

                    6 February 2013 at 8:09 pm

                    I’m not even going to bother at this stage MS. Talk about gifting the Maori seats to Mana on a plate.
                  • gobsmacked …

                    6 February 2013 at 8:12 pm

                    Smart politics from Key. Gower was right on TV3, having a go at Titewhai doesn’t cost National votes.

                    Plus, Key knows his opponent all too well. National will spend the next two years dog-whistling like that, confident that Shearer will say “Er, yes, but, I mean …:”, winning no votes from the right and pissing off plenty of his supporters.

                    (but remember, if we all agree not to say this is happening, it won’t happen, and Shearer will be great … /heavy sarc)
                  • marty mars …

                    6 February 2013 at 10:26 pm

                    a kick from the right, a kick from the left – nah same team just different legs.
                  • Rob …

                    6 February 2013 at 11:03 pm

                    Does anyone know what Gower actually asked him?

                    “Do you agree with Key that Maori activists make waitangi day difficult for everyone to enjoy it as a celebration like you said yesterday?” is different from “Do you agree with Key that maori should stop seeing themeslves as disadvantaged and making a fuss?” but both questions can summarise Key’s speech.

                    But, you know, it’s not like Gower would do Shearer over because he’s such a nice, honourable man, so let’s get our pitchforks etc.
                    • gobsmacked …

                      6 February 2013 at 11:59 pm

                      Rob, if David Shearer relies on Gower playing nice, then he cannot possibly lead Labour in an election campaign.

                      It’s late and I can’t be bothered to teach Shearer Media 101 for the umpteenth time, but the essence of it is – be smart, be prepared. That means before the questions (knowing what to expect) and after (making sure the message gets out).

                      If Shearer didn’t like Gower’s unfair question then I would expect his team to have rebutted within minutes, in all available outlets, and if he didn’t know what Gower was going to ask him, and didn’t have a line ready, then he should not be anywhere near the leader’s job.

                      In 2014, if polls are to be believed, Labour could be the front runners for the first time since 2005, or even 2002. So the media are going to “do Shearer over” every day. Labour can either put their faith in Gower’s fairness (ha!) or their leader’s ability to cope with unfairness.

                      FFS, it’s not “pitchforks”. It’s asking for a bare minimum competence, a basic grasp of modern campaigning.

                      PS … and for the record (feel free to check), Shearer’s comments were queried by many on Twitter within seconds, because that’s what happens – people watch the news, and respond.

                      Whereas Labour respond late, or not at all.
                    • Pascal's bookie …

                      7 February 2013 at 7:06 am

                      Exactly Gobsmacked.

                      Reckoning here that part of Shearer’s problem is that he is a mediator. he instinctively phrases things in a way that expresses that he undertsands both points of view, which is an admirable trait in a human being, but it’s not one that a political party leader should indulge in. His job isn’t to mediate between political differences. He’s supposed to represent and fight; convince that his party’s way is right and the govts’ wrong.
                  • geoff …

                    7 February 2013 at 7:19 am

                    That dog whistle never leaves his lips! He’s not David Shearer, he’s David Shepherd.
    • Jilly Bee 13.2

      6 February 2013 at 6:43 pm

      You did North, and so did I. Ye gods, what is he going to say next.
      • gobsmacked 13.2.1

        6 February 2013 at 8:03 pm

        It was Shearer-speak. Trying to cover all bases, and in the process, undermining his own soundbite (which was a fair one – telling Key to front up, not take potshots and scarper).

        If he still can’t grasp that TV news only ever allows you to make one point, not to add parentheses and qualifiers and “other hands”, then his media training is wasted.
        • mickysavage 13.2.1.1

          6 February 2013 at 8:08 pm

          Aye, if he did not say “fair enough and we all feel that way” the statement would have been fine.
          • felixviper 13.2.1.1.1

            6 February 2013 at 8:36 pm

            Sadly I’m finding it harder and harder to believe that he isn’t just saying what he really thinks.
14. Draco T Bastard 14

    6 February 2013 at 7:10 pm

    If you’ve got a spare hour you may find this worth watching:
    The Parents, The Politician and The Moneymakers – A warning for NZ schools

    It reveals how local authorities are being bullied into serving up schools for forced academisation, just to keep the Minister sweet.
    How they were made to sound like raving Communists.
    How they were inspected and found to have good teachers and governance and be improving – then at the behest of Gove they were suddenly re-inspected and found to be failing in all areas.
    It shows who is set to profit from the privitisation of schools.

    The documentary is based upon the English experience but it should (yes, I haven’t watched it yet) have lessons for NZ in it as well.
    • Dianne Khan 14.1

      6 February 2013 at 10:13 pm

      it’s rather jaw-dropping isn’t it, the way the school is bullied. I was shocked, and I’m not easily shocked.
15. bad12 15

    6 February 2013 at 7:11 pm

    That was pretty laughable, Slippery the Prime Minister whining about protestors stealing His lime-light, dunno what the Slippery one was venting His spleen over as there was little protest at all this year at Waitangi,

    Probably got an ear-full in the private meeting with Iwi Leaders that is still resonating around His empty suitcase of intellectual rigor with the Maori Council also attending i can well imagine the discussion about water rights would have positively sizzled…
    • AmaKiwi 15.1

      6 February 2013 at 8:31 pm

      @ bad12

      Key WANTED protests. Protests would have given him real headlines: “PM to protestors: Fuck off you lazy sods . . . “
16. VivaciousViper 16

    6 February 2013 at 8:01 pm

    There is an article in stuff business section titled ‘ Ministry stone-walling on SkyCity-Labour.
    Sorry can’t link.
    National up to their old tricks,by the look of it.
    • Anne 16.1

      6 February 2013 at 8:32 pm

      You can do an ordinary cut and paste job VV.

      Open article in normal way.
      Right click on stuff address/article heading… at top left of screen.
      Left click on ‘copy’.

      Arrow back and re-open The Standard…

      Right click in your comment box.
      Left click on ‘paste’.

      And this is what you should get:

      http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/8265860/Ministry-stone-walling-on-SkyCity-Labour

      Note: it doesn’t go blue until you submit comment.
17. joe90 17

    6 February 2013 at 9:16 pm

    \Small pdf.

    http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/sections/news/020413_DOJ_White_Paper.pdf
18. VivaciousViper 18

    6 February 2013 at 9:33 pm

    Hi, thanks Anne, I’m still working on it,it manages to vanish on me,when i arrow
    to the standard box, sigh,i’ll keep working at it. 🙂
19. just saying 19

    6 February 2013 at 9:40 pm

    Hi LPrent,
    I hope you are having a really good relaxing break in good company somewhere beautiful.

    When you are ready to return to the fray – there is something odd going on with the edit function. Tonight I managed to create two comments by editing one. I am dead tired, and am (more) prone to mess up when I am, but when I edited a post it created a duplicate. I definitely didn’t hit send twice.

    Ta
20. NoseViper (The Nose knows) 20

    6 February 2013 at 10:05 pm

    Colonial Viper
    You have done a lot of thinking on climate change and the way forward. What books, blogs do you find most effective to summarise the situation in a practical manner and advise on ways we can move to reduce our wastefulness of whatever and what we should be aiming for?
    • Colonial Viper 20.1

      6 February 2013 at 10:31 pm

      Hey mate, despite these links being a little US-centric:

      Try a couple of the books by John Michael Greer. The Long Descent and the Eco-technic Future are good to start with. You can order his books here

      http://redroom.com/member/john-michael-greer

      And for free, check out his blog here

      http://thearchdruidreport.blogspot.co.nz/

      What he writes is fascinating but what his commentators leave is equally astonishing at times.

      Dmitry Orlov is excellent for helping breakdown particular cultural outlooks on the trouble we find ourselves in:

      http://fora.tv/2009/02/13/Dmitry_Orlov_Social_Collapse_Best_Practices

      Now I have to admit that my focus is not so much on climate change per se, but on the massive energy and resource depletion facing our civilisation. That depletion is going to make how we deal with climate change much more difficult.

      Also, reading up about this stuff can sometimes feel a little bit of a ‘downer’, but in actual fact there’s a pretty exciting world of innovation and community building coming up.
      • Colonial Viper 20.1.1

        6 February 2013 at 10:39 pm

        Re: the archdruid blog – if you find it interesting enough, start reading his posts from a few years back right through to the current day.
      • geoff 20.1.2

        6 February 2013 at 10:46 pm

        Do you watch The Keiser Report, CV? If not, have a gander, it’s hilarious and informative but possibly panders to the gold bug angle a bit.
        • Colonial Viper 20.1.2.1

          6 February 2013 at 10:47 pm

          🙂 yep definitely. Max and Stacy, the dynamic duo. Have you discovered Zero Hedge? Also check out Richard D Wolff on youtube and his blog site for a good dose of democratic socialism.
          • geoff 20.1.2.1.1

            6 February 2013 at 11:01 pm

            Cheers, I’ve had a wee look at Zero Hedge but I must look into it further. Haven’t heard of Wolff though, Ill check it out. Here’s a nice link I found the other day (which I haven’t explored yet):
            http://www.huffingtonpost.com/joshua-m-brown/best-financial-journalists_b_1605584.html

            I feel a bit safer talking about this weirdo banking stuff now that TFC is on a weeks ban 😉
21. marty mars 21

    6 February 2013 at 10:16 pm

    I don’t get this, wtf is going on here – how can a company like mainzeal go down with all of the supposed building going or about to get going in chch. Although I spoke to a friend down there who said the pay is shit and he’s off to oz.

    Mainzeal director Richard Yan said the company could no longer continue trading due to a “series of events that had adversely affected the company’s financial position”, combined with a general decline in commercial construction activity and lack of shareholder support.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10863801
    • Colonial Viper 21.1

      6 February 2013 at 10:32 pm

      Contracts and buying power concentrate in Fletchers; then probably some management mistakes and wrong assumptions at Mainzeal.

      We’ve created an economy of winners and losers, and money becoming more and more concentrated.
    • vto 21.2

      6 February 2013 at 11:30 pm

      International problems. Christchurch operation will be worth a relatives fortune.
22. The Al1en 22

    6 February 2013 at 11:44 pm

    Purges, I shit them.

    Just wrote this tonight. Here with the freaks and the snakes. “lol:

    https://soundcloud.com/theal1en/getting-it-done

    You say it’s all right, sometime, we’ll get it done.
    Well sometimes you just suck and I’ve got the fight to say.
    You should never grab at something you couldn’t take.
    You say you’re all right, sometime, you’ll get it done.
    And sometimes you just say I’ve got to learn to wait.
    Well you should never hit on something you can’t break.

    What you gonna wash away?
    How you gonna wash me way?

    For no better reason than I’ve got no reason to fake.
    I got a reason I got the will and the way.
    No helps coming, no one’s running away.
    Firing treason, ‘here with the freaks and the snakes.
    What you gonna wash away?
    How you gonna wash me way?

    You say he’s all right, sometime, he’ll get it done.
    Well sometime is just words far too easy to say.
    You should never try on something if you can’t even fake.
    You say it’s all right, sometime, you’ll get it done.
    And sometimes you just say I’ve got to learn to heal.
    Well you should never count on something you can’t steal.

    What you gonna wash away?
    How you gonna wash me way?

    For no better reason than I’ve got no reason to fade.
    I got a meaning, I got the will and the way.
    New hope running, no one’s staking stakes.
    Firing reason, ‘here with the freaks and the snakes.
    What you gonna wash away?
    How you gonna wash me way?

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