Open mike 07/04/2025
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6:00 am, April 7th, 2025 - 68 comments
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Today, Te Pāti Māori join the motu in celebration as the Treaty Principles Bill is voted down at its second reading. “From the beginning, this Bill was never welcome in this House,” said Te Pāti Māori Co-Leader, Rawiri Waititi. “Our response to the first reading was one of protest: protesting ...2 weeks ago
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Near the end of the Trump Schadenfruede post, there was this- "The global left has a great chance to first enjoy “told you so world”, and secondly rebuild its voter support."
The second part of that sentence is the most important. Othering is almost anti-left and it doesn't serve either group well. Instead we need to put that precious attention into imagining, planning and communicating the alternative. Make it so attractive so it's irresistible to those that don't vote.
The first $15,000 tax free?
Abolish GST, replace with Wealth/Stamp duty/CGT?
Time for some old fashioned protectionism?
Invest in pharmaceutical companies here? Stop direct to customer marketing of pharmaceuticals (apart from NZ ones?).
Living wage at least, paid to all workers who are contracted to the government?
It's far better for our emotional and political health to focus on things that are within our control. Every time Trump is in our thoughts and words, Luxon, Seymour, Peters and their motley crews thank you.
The biggie in my view, and a couple of other regular posters is–return power generation and supply to full public ownership. Compensation for the gentailers if they go quietly. The artificially created power and lines market has just been a money spinner for private enterprise with inadequate reinvestment made by them in maintenance, infrastructure and new sustainable power sources.
Power prices have been hiked 10% just in time for winter. National super annuitants get a heating payment from May to October, filthy beneficiaries of course nothing.
Cheaper, sustainable power under Govt. and community control would be a vote winner.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/public-majority-slams-govt-for-lack-of-action-on-electricity-prices-in-new-poll/BZEQ3RIC7VEDDOAQJOI6KGE3NQ/#google_vignette
Any serious reform must see the minimum wage become the living wage…
I'm guessing you would have seen that Willis is stripping Living Wage requirements out of all government contracts?
So much for their pre-election promise of "higher wages for New Zealanders".
Many years ago, Bill English wanted "the wages to drop" and I do believe National & ACT still prefer lowering minimum and living wages (inflation adjusted).
However, overall "higher wages for New Zealanders" is still possible… if you look at the "average NZ wage", for example pay the CEOs and other top management 10 times more and you will increase the average.
You give your claimed comment by Bill English as being a direct quote,
Can you please provide evidence for what you say he said?
English might have been channelling John ‘Close the Wage Gap’ Key
So Bill never said this?
Don’t know if Bill has ever uttered the words “the wages to drop” – maybe you could enlighten us.
Anyhoo, what we do know is that in 2011 our then Minister of Finance considered a “30 per cent” wage gap with Australia to be advantageous.
That's what I am getting at T.M.
It is a vote winner. Those that have a share portfolio aren't suddenly going to change their vote but it will encourage those that don't vote to partake.
Aye TM. I have said similar for many years. Who in the Left opposition is listening ?
Here are some of the existing problems….
The salient point…
Greenpeace with some experts on how to change the broken system.
And the Greens with their Future Energy Vision….
We cannot continue the way we are. Democratise NZ Energy !
National super annuitants get a heating payment from May to October, filthy beneficiaries of course nothing.
Beneficiaries DO (still) get the Winter energy payment.
https://www.workandincome.govt.nz/products/a-z-benefits/winter-energy-payment.html#:~:text=You%20must%20be%20getting%20a,on%201%20October%20every%20year.
How much would renationalising the entire power generation industry cost?
You would compensate shareholders with government bonds, that how they did it in the 1940s anyway.
Humour me.
How much would that be?
It would be much cheaper and practical to set up a state owned solar power company where most/all sites developed also had grid-linked battery storage attached.
The battery storage would be less expensive than (and instead of) Lake Onslow.
This would also give Labour credibility on the climate change issue.
Na onslow type storage beats batteries every day once it's buil it last for ever ish, unlike bloody batteries
No battery ever dies, they are all murdered.
I'm all in favour if yr solar idea, start with schools, marae, council buildings and swimming pools.
But… We also need to restructure the power system to reflect that it is a necessity for the public and that it is owned by the public.
Not an investment vehicle for playing corporate games with.
The last estimate I heard for Onslow was $17 billion….these days you can buy a hell of a lot of solar panels and batteries for that kind of dosh.
Don't think any solar panels or batteries, bought now, will still be useful in 100 years.
Onslow was future proofing consumption smoothing.
Not something that power companies making a mint on spot pricing wants.
The other investment required is in drastically reducing end use of energy. Green buildings, rail, shipping, transport requirements, commuting.
The proposed scheme was to store 5 billion kilowatt-hours (kWh) of electricity. Large scale battery storage costs range from $100 to $300 per kilowatt-hour (kWh). Do the sums.
Need not cost a thing.
Renationalising is in the national interest. Help undo the inequities caused by rampant inequality.
Shareholders by definition have surplus funds.
A return is not guaranteed, there is risk in the 'market'.
As has been pointed out, compensate with Govt. bonds.
How much in nz government bonds?
Has renationalising all power generation been done anywhere similar so we can consider what might happen?
We can do better than saying it's free and the government will fix it.
We lost the last election trying to re-govern water.
This lot are likely to lose from trying to implement re-governing health.
Be consequential.
Do you have skin in the game?
We all do.
Yes, some have more in that they can tolerate the dividends they receive at the expense of the rest of us.
"New research from First Union, 350 Aotearoa and the Council of Trade Unions said power companies paid out $10.8 billion in dividends over the last decade but invested $4.5b in new power projects"
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/business/504764/big-power-companies-paying-large-dividends-at-consumers-expense-unions
"We lost the last election trying to re-govern water. "
Bad example, with 3 waters rightly or wrongly, the feeling was that something we owned was being taken.
Taking back the power companies is returning some that was taken from us.
I suspect your personal interests override concern for the less well off amongst us. Yr not alone there are plenty of 'left wing' landlords too.
I think Ad’s talking strategy, but I agree that 3 waters is a bad example. Labour botched it by imposing it without regard for the electorate instead of bringing people along. Likewise co-governance. Lefties might not be bothered by that approach but swing voters are.
It's also a failure of the neoliberal paradigm. Nationalising power is antithetical to neoliberalism, so it's hard to see how Labour could consider it the way things are now. But the conversation is important, and what I'd like to see if lefties develop more on the how. Both the practicalities and the politics. Use Ad's naysaying as a way of testing the ideas.
Perhaps.
With Trump metaphorically tipping the table over it's the perfect time to implement politics with principles.
Bugger shareholders, signal now that it's time to exit the that market as the power is coming back to the people.
How though? I’m not naysaying, I’m saying go further, work through the issues and talk about not just what could happen but how.
The shareholders are a shit load of NZers with a kiwisaver. Saying bugger the shareholders contradicts the power to the people messaging. If we want people to vote for system change we have to present a way out of neoliberal capitalism.
As to how, that's where I am woefully out of my depth. There would be far brighter minds than mine with that know how.
We did it with KiwiRail, the government retrieving important infrastructure from private ownership. Perhaps that is a model to follow?
I figure part of the narrative is that the assets were paid for and built by our tipuna but they have been misused. (Way more paid in dividends than in reinvestment into generation or maintenance.)
I agree, I don't see the political courage or imagination in parliament to make that happen, but if we made enough noise…
my point here is that enough noise is insufficient. Why would the parliamentary parties move on this if there was no credible way to do it? I’m not saying there isn’t. It’s possible there are people out there who have started thinking about the how. Go find them and bring their ideas back here and see how the debate changes from ‘we should do this’ to ‘this is how we effect useful change’
Have the Transition Town people done work in this locally or internationally? What about WEALL?
If we want radical change, I think it’s the responsibility of extra-parliamentary groups to lead on this.
The value of Genesis, Meridian and Mercury (the three mixed ownership power companies) in the Crown accounts is $24.3B and ~51% ownership as at 30 June 2024. Lazy maths say it would therefore cost approx. $23.4B to renationalise those back to 100%.
Source – pp 174-176
Not sure what else would be included in renationalisation.
Piss easy to sell politically IMO.
The latest national line charges hike reflects ongoing underinvestment by lines companies via their trustee troughs.
I wouldn't compensate anyone, they've done more than well enough with the dividends not matched by profit.
Settle at market share price, nationalise the lot. The largesse within that sector is staggering, returning to an NZED model would save shedloads p.a.
Wait so you'd nationalise all lines companies and all generators together?
Our government system is in crisis, as to funding.
We need a 20 year bright-line test on rental property, stamp duty (5% over $2M), and a wealth tax linked to estate tax and more (1% mortgage surcharge on landlord property – 10 year exemption for new builds) just to maintain government, as was developed in the 20thC.
Based around the principles of the UN Declaration of Human Rights (right to health, housing, education, adequate income etc).
Did the 10 year Bright Line Test significantly increase tax income to government?
No, because it has never been in effect.
EXPLAINER.
It was only 2 years till 2017, then increased to 5.
But the time frame was not retrospective.
So given the changes made by the government elected in 2023, there has never been a 10 year bright-line test in effect.
Treasury recommends a 20 year bright-line test.
page 2
https://www.taxpolicy.ird.govt.nz/-/media/e3626e29ec114052880ef6d64b50beed.ashx?modified=20240314002444
That is amazing SPC. Labour should make a 20 year BLT policy for the next election immediately, citing Treasury advice.
This should be in addition to a Wealth Tax.
Annual % increase in the minimum wage for the last wee while:
2015 – 3.5% (5th National (Key) government)
2016 – 3.4%
2017 – 3.3%
2018 – 4.8% (6th Labour (Ardern) government)
2019 – 7.3%
2020 – 6.8%
2021 – 5.8%
2022 – 6.0%
2023 – 7.1%
2024 – 2.0% ('our' CoC govt)
2025 – 1.5%
Neolib cheerleader Chrises A&B doing their buddy-buddy routine in this nice photo: https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/coalition-back-on-track-after-months-behind-labour/MCUS77CB7JENVPDI2TXXZY7EIQ/
Chris B: "See this tie, mostly blue – the diagonal pattern is a mask to lull the leftists into a false sense of security. But hey, if I go full blue next week and shave my hair off they won't be able to tell us apart."
Chris A: "Nah, won't work. Everyone knows you're banal & I'm venal. Huge difference – 2 whole letters of the alphabet."
Chris B: "Intellectual stuff like that baffles me. I'll see if my minder can explain it."
Meanwhile the Herald analyst reckons Chris B dropped Labour 4.3% because a Green MP made him do it:
Somehow I can't bring myself to believe that Labour supporters really are that fickle. Worse, woke worked Winston's wondrous whopping wow…
Ya gotta wonder … MLK was her go-to example!?
And another WTAF…
I had earler commented on ACT Minister Hoggard and his lack of awareness….
Anyone tracking the antitrust lawsuit against Zuckerberg by the US Federal Trade Commission?
Starts April 14.
Sure hope Willis is taking notice, not just more talks and reports about our multiple oligopolies.
The lunacy continues:
"Trump administration orders half of national forests open for logging" (Stuff report, https://www.stuff.co.nz/world-news/360642862/trump-administration-orders-half-national-forests-open-logging)
US foresters have been told that they are entering “a new era”.
Well, with climate crisis resulting in more droughts and more forest fires, perhaps their "logic" is along the lines of "fell them before they burn".
The faster they fell them, the sooner the Atlantic current and AMOC system goes down. That will end global warming … in the northern hemisphere …
The thing to watch is the elites supporting the capacity to have domed communities on the moon or Mars. This capacity is required for there to be survival centres in the case of a 10 degree cooling in the north.
A Redwood moonbase!
Incredible….who needs landscape or carbon sinks?
There is light at the end of the tunnel. After just 3 months of Trump in power people are marching in the streets.
The mid term elections will be interesting.
Trump will be dead before they realise that the scifi rich pricks living in a biodome scenario doesn't work.
The mid term elections will be interesting.
Only if they're actually allowed to take place in a free and fair manner – by no means a certainty, in my view.
Better they log close to home – and see the effects, than import timber logged from poor countries, where they can pretend the effect doesn't exist.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/apr/06/the-white-working-class-is-nothing-like-what-politicians-think-or-claim-it-is
Although very English, there are lessons for us here as well.
"The Labour party, though, was always a coalition of working-class and middle-class voters. What has happened in the post-Thatcher era is a conscious refashioning of that coalition, jettisoning class politics, embracing neoliberal policies and promoting technocratic values. Labour MPs with working-class backgrounds have, as Budd notes, become rare, largely replaced by “political careerists” with a background “in thinktanks or as advisers”.
Sections of the working class, feeling abandoned and voiceless, have themselves, over time, abandoned Labour, some gravitating towards the Tories and more recently towards Reform. It is difficult to see how you can address the issues Budd so adroitly raises without reclaiming some form of class politics. Not least because Winnick’s point that those who “act as the champions of the white person against immigrants” rarely “defend the interests of the white working class” is even more pertinent today than it was half a century ago. The left’s neglect of class politics has allowed parties such as Reform, whose policies, on topics from trade unions to welfare, are deeply regressive, to be able to portray themselves as championing working-class interests."
Reading Fungi of Aotearoa in the weekend it touched on how the mycorrzhial network is a big carbon sink.
Regular tilling of the soil and certain sprays undo this good work.
"Plants photosynthesize using sunlight and carbon dioxide from the atmosphere and convert them into energy. During that process, the plants fix carbon – turning it from its gaseous form into organic carbon compounds. The plants then use this carbon to build their structures. Flowers, leaves, stems – those are all made from organic carbon compounds"
https://www.spun.earth/articles/carbon-paper
Review of the book.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/2018889518/book-review-fungi-of-aotearoa-by-liv-sisson
I became interested in Trump's use of executive orders to implement his policies, as he seems to be acting like the US version of Joseph Stalin. Can't Congress rein him in?
This note from a US law firm gives a few pointers: https://www.woodsrogers.com/insights/publications/5-facts-about-executive-orders-that-may-surprise-you
Not really, as both houses are under control of the Republican Party & most of the Republican moderates are like possums trap between the Lights of a incoming MAGA Truck.
The Best hope for everyone is the mid term elections atm?
If that fails? Then we and most US citizens are Fucked!
And what I mean "We" is the world feeling the effects of Trump's Tariffs/ American First & Trump's Foreign Policy's.
“This is a con on a global scale. Trump is not rejecting the corporate trade model. He’s weaponizing it”.
Trump’s mob will be rebating tariffs for countries that prioritise US rules. Such as corporate rights over countries internal policies.
Seymours regulatory standards Bill, is an echo of the ultimate aim of Trumps puppet masters.
When a billboard that says "Vote Green" is deemed to be a billboard telling people not to vote Green.
Now I've seen it all (I hope)…
Billboards attacking Green MPs appear in Wellington and Auckland https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/557433/billboards-attacking-green-mps-appear-in-wellington-and-auckland
Sensible Sentencing (the SS) have stuffed up here and given Chloe the chance to explain that defunding the police is not Green Party policy at all.
They should have saved it for the election.
Should go on to point out that National are already defunding the police more than any sensible budget policy would suggest, and that they have zero chance of hitting their recruitment targets in their term.
Post up: https://thestandard.org.nz/misleading-billboards-are-a-threat-to-electoral-integrity/.
To judge by recent form, the Greens will have given 'em plenty more ammo by that time. No need to hoard it.
(I've voted Green in the last three GEs, but am getting increasingly exasperated at the way their candidate selection – and the candidates themselves – keep leaving them open to cheapo attacks that distract from the message.)