Open mike 07/07/2019

Written By: - Date published: 7:00 am, July 7th, 2019 - 158 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

158 comments on “Open mike 07/07/2019 ”

  • Comments are now closed

  1. reason 1
    7 July 2019 at 7:50 am

    we started what is going on now and probably will be going on for years to come this massive chaos, killing, death, starvation, states failing and so forth. Syria, Libya, Iraq, and possibly Lebanon, maybe Jordan. […] What we have is chaos and we produce that chaos. Just as sure as we produce the chaos, we produced ISIS. […] We produced all this by that really unwise decision in 2003 to invade Iraq. […] The campaign to convince the American people to support the war in Iraq which is quite effective and when you consider it was built on a house of lies, it was quite effective.

    Lets not forget the NZ context of the time …. national all but calling helen clarke a traitor … ie

    John Key : We need to get some guts …. and partake in three white eyes illegal invasion /war …. leading to millions dead …. and tens of millions refugees'

    Wayne mapp: we could be missing out on trade deals …. if we don't partake in three white eyes illegal war / invasion …. leading to millions dead …. and tens of millions refugees'

    fast forward 16 years

    A masterstroke of dirty politics …. blame the victims of your actions …. gain votes from racist retards …

    Getting two ticks support from racist white inbreeds to stupid to see the cause of their 'invasion'

    It takes a seriously degenerative , dim witted, low grade form of supremacy …. to not see cause and effect.

    … The usa alone had used 100,000 bombs and missiles on the people of Iraq and syria ….over the period of2014-2017 ….two or three years worth from memory

    others can feel free to google search this 100,000 bombs and missiles count

    I've been conservative … and our collective ignorance of it speaks to 5 white eyes lynch club mentality.

    Indifference is a true barometer of our western racism … ie if you don’t give a fuck , what motivates that

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oB3B-SSXKII

    [Removed double spacing to improve readability]

    • Psycho Milt 1.1
      7 July 2019 at 8:32 am

      we started what is going on now and probably will be going on for years to come this massive chaos, killing, death, starvation, states failing and so forth.

      That's not only ignorant, it grossly overestimates the significance of your own culture. The peoples of the Middle East are as capable of slaughtering each other for ridiculous reasons as the people of Europe or any other region, and their history shows that quite clearly if you bother to look at it.

      "We" as in western liberal democracies certainly bear some responsibility for conflicts that are happening at the moment, but let's not pretend locals have no agency over their own countries' affairs.

      • reason 1.1.1
        7 July 2019 at 9:17 am

        Wayne mapp asks if you will also clean his feet …. after washing his hands

        I've noted your racist slurs about 'explosive' muslims before …. where your mouth and sterotype smears seemed to line up with your avatar…. https://www.adl.org/sites/default/files/styles/max_650x650/public/images/combating-hate/hate-on-display/c/ss-divisional-insignia-2.jpg?itok=H0isQ_UW

        100,000 bombs and missiles rained down on Iraq and syrian people …. is a culture you couldn't give a fuck about PM … or so your comment appears.

        But moving on ….. and in the interests of education…

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8Bsxd4EMpo

        [Removed double spacing to improve readability]

        • Psycho Milt 1.1.1.1
          7 July 2019 at 10:38 am

          I see you're as ignorant of the meaning of my avatar as you are about the history of the Middle East.

          • veutoviper 1.1.1.1.1
            7 July 2019 at 11:36 am

            +1000 Well said.

            Was going to post this link – but decided it was better to just ignore such crass ignorance/incoherence.

            https://theartofcrass.uk/

            • reason 1.1.1.1.1.1
              7 July 2019 at 1:53 pm

              oh touche

              How crass would be the misrepresentation of a dead three year old girl … as a Taliban fighter.

              Although I appreciate it's not the sort of thing …. that offends you as much as bad manners ………..

              Eliot Abrams shares your kindred views …. your rude and ridiculous is the important issue ….

              For petty spankers lost without a moral compass ,,,,angry

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mm-DThEYyiE

              [Removed double spacing to improve readability]

              • veutoviper …
                7 July 2019 at 2:10 pm

                You completely missed why I used the word "Crass" and its connection to Psycho Milt's avatar, which is not a Nazi symbol – it is an anti-war symbol.

                See 1.3 below.

              • The Al1en …
                7 July 2019 at 5:27 pm

                Whoosh lol

                The clue was in the link 😆

          • R.P Mcmurphy 1.1.1.1.2
            8 July 2019 at 11:35 am

            poooooh.

        • Chris T 1.1.1.2
          7 July 2019 at 2:42 pm

          "I've noted your racist slurs about 'explosive' muslims before …. where your mouth and sterotype smears seemed to line up with your avatar…. https://www.adl.org/sites/default/files/styles/max_650x650/public/images/combating-hate/hate-on-display/c/ss-divisional-insignia-2.jpg?itok=H0isQ_UW "

          WTF?

          (Shakes head)

          It is a symbol of an anti-war band and record label ffs

          • reason 1.1.1.2.1
            7 July 2019 at 3:52 pm

            Thanks chris This is very important ….We should all take offense …. that much is obvious … ….ffs indeed

            99 out of 100 real life white supremacist inbreeds …. would see PMs logo and go "Brother".

            And having 99 out of a 100 racist inbreeds thinking he is one of them ….

            Is out of PMs control.

            Crass, crass ,crass ….. to even bring up that 99 out of 100 neo nazi fuckwits would identify PM as being one of them.

            How could we blame PM for the stupidity of 99 out of 100 inbreed fascists.

            TS members should educate these illiterate neo nazis … the moron white pride idiots who think they are 'european knights' …. spelt nights to some of them.

            https://youtu.be/6dj71ywmuOY

            It shows the stupidity PM is up against ….. as they identify him … as one of their own.

            Nazi bastards …

            [Please do not use double spacing in your long comments; I have removed them in this comment. Please dial back the aggressive language and personal insults directed at commenters here – Incognito]

            • Psycho Milt 1.1.1.2.1.1
              7 July 2019 at 4:04 pm

              99 out of 100 real life white supremacist inbreeds …. would see PMs logo and go "Brother".

              They would? I guess it must be true, because you've asserted it, right? Still, it's odd how no right-wingers who've seen my comments have felt like calling me "brother" afterwards – perhaps they actually read the comments…

            • McFlock 1.1.1.2.1.2
              7 July 2019 at 4:30 pm

              99 out of 100 real life white supremacist inbreeds …. would see PMs logo and go "Brother".

              But you're only saying that because of the assumption that you leapt to. So all your imaginary survey says is that you believe that 99% of fascist-adjacents would share your instinctive assumption in this regard.

            • Incognito 1.1.1.2.1.3
              7 July 2019 at 4:32 pm

              See my Moderation note @ 3:52 PM.

      • Morrissey 1.1.2
        7 July 2019 at 10:27 am

        Tony Blair scoffs at the Iraqi people's "imaginary grievances."

        http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_politics/4773124.stm

      • KJT 1.1.3
        7 July 2019 at 11:58 am

        The conflict in the middle East is entirely a creation of the Western powers, dating from the fall of the Ottoman Empire, and the subsequent division into States, with puppet rulers, subservient to Western oil interests.

        Toppling the Democratic Government in Iran, in the 1950's, was just one of very many, ignorant and self serving interventions by the West.

        To say that conflict was inevitable, without Western influence, shows a profound ignorance of history.

        A united and peaceful middle East, with control over much of the worlds oil, has never been in Western interests.

        All the Western economies are dependent on both cheap oil, controlled by Western oil companies, and arms sales to the perpetual wars.

        Politically, the USA needs a WestAsia, or EastAsia. A perpetual enemy to prevent revolt, and keep the war driven economic stimulus, at home.

        • joe90 1.1.3.1
          7 July 2019 at 12:28 pm

          And the Empire didn't spend the thick end of 700 years putting entire populations to the sword and installing rulers, subservient to Ottoman interests?

        • Psycho Milt 1.1.3.2
          7 July 2019 at 12:52 pm

          To say that conflict was inevitable, without Western influence, shows a profound ignorance of history.

          Oh right, a Sunni empire run by Turks would have just lived happily ever after, united and peaceful, if it hadn't been for those duplicitous westerners. Foolishly imagining that there are major ethnic, cultural and religious divisions between peoples in the Middle East shows a "profound ignorance of history." How could I have been so stupid?

          • reason 1.1.3.2.1
            7 July 2019 at 2:59 pm

            Devious …. not stupid

            don't sell yourself short PM

            Why don't you sing your Libya is better off … thanks to NATO …song for me and TS again….

            Better off you claimed ….

            Which it is for slave traders , radical Isis type jihadists … war-lords and criminals .

            Fuck the genocide treatment towards black libya citizens … with slavery and sex trafficking …

            Fuck Libya women …. with their treatment under jihadi … welcome back child brides and servitude to men in the saudi style.

            Fuck the citizens who have lost all the gains of a modern society …

            According to PM they are all better off …. If we keep sight of the important issues

            Which you can explain to us again …

            It sounded like bullshit last time PM said it….but perhaps you'll vomit it up better this time …

            Give us your white eyes twisted warmongers view of how the Libyan people are better off … forget about being Waynes little hand washer

            Sing PM…. Wayne may provide organ grinder music …. because he's a great guy and knows your NATO song sheets inside out.

            [Removed double spacing to improve readability]

            • Psycho Milt 1.1.3.2.1.1
              7 July 2019 at 3:59 pm

              See, there's another fine example. You pretend that "the West" deposed your beloved dictator Gaddafi, as though the people who rebelled against him had no agency and were mere dupes of the liberal democracies. It can be argued that western goverments shouldn't have helped the rebels, but if the rebels had lost there would have been a bloodbath afterwards, with resulting blood feuds to go down through the generations, pretty much like there have been since the rebels won. Sometimes it doesn't make any sense to try and make a good guys vs bad guys story out of real-world events.

              • reason …
                9 July 2019 at 11:32 am

                Your telling of history is more self serving than wayne mapp ….

                And do you think if you repeat a lie often enough it becomes true ??

                Before the 2011 NATO bombing, on the other hand, Libya had been the wealthiest nation in Africa, with the highest life expectancy and GDP per capita. In his book "Perilous Interventions," former Indian representative to the U.N. Hardeep Singh Puri notes that, before the war, Libya had less of its population in poverty than the Netherlands. Libyans had access to free health care, education, electricity and interest-free loans, and women had great freedoms that had been applauded by the U.N. Human Rights Council in January 2011, on the eve of the war that destroyed the government.

                Its becoming crystal clear you have as much care for the victims of our illegal wars based on bullshit …. as Alwyn does for the pike river miners.

                Him blaming Andrew little for pike river … and your racist dishonest hand washing over our western and NATO slaughter wars …. tell us the truth about both your honesty ….. and how you really think.

                I can believe you do feel better off ….

                According to the United Nations Support Mission in Libya (UNSMIL; 2016), the majority of migrants that it interviewed in Libya were from the sub-Saharan African countries, namely, Eritrea, Somalia, Guinea, Cameroon, Nigeria, Ethiopia, and Sudan. The migrants reported to UNSMIL that they had been regularly subjected to beatings, starvation, denial of food and water, gang rapes, and the renting out of women to armed men for sexual abuse.

                Then Secretary of State Clinton understood in early 2011 what was happening concerning the rebel genocidal targeting of black Libyans and African migrants, yet pushed to arm the rebels and overthrow Gaddafi anyway.

                https://www.pambazuka.org/human-security/eighth-anniversary-african-genocide-libya

                International human rights groups documented countless incidents of targeted mass murders, incitements to violence, arson, sexual assaults, evictions and banishments against black Libyans and African immigrants.

                a study by a U.N. panel of experts, which found the former Libyan government's weapons in Algeria, Chad, Egypt, Gaza, Mali, Niger, Tunisia and Syria. The U.N. panel noted that "arms originating from Libya have significantly reinforced the military capacity of terrorist groups operating in Algeria, Egypt, Mali and Tunisia."

                • Psycho Milt …
                  9 July 2019 at 12:00 pm

                  Again, it's not clear who you think you're arguing with here or what it is that you're arguing. It seems to be addressed to be me, but not in any way that makes sense.

        • Marcus Morris 1.1.3.3
          7 July 2019 at 6:03 pm

          100% KJT – read Robert Fisk's "Great War For Civilisation" and weep

          • reason 1.1.3.3.1
            7 July 2019 at 8:54 pm

            Fisk is perhaps more relevant than ever ….

            His education deconstructs a lot of PMs … 'english' history

            Trustworthy information … and if some details are incorrect …. Its not through a lack of honesty

            A hundred years ago, they reported back to Washington with a series of recommendations which would cast dark shadows for us, even today.

            not a single American or European or Arab soul – not a remotely interested Muslim, not one Israeli – has remembered that this is the 100th anniversary of the most intensive western enquiry ever made into what the people who actually live in the Middle East want for their future. Isn’t this worth just a small commemoration in this grubby year of betrayal and danger in the Middle East?

            vast number of Muslims, Maronite (Catholics), Druze and other Christian sects whose families had emigrated to America “were intensely loyal” to the US and thus had “made the people of Syria and Palestine trust America”. The existence of what is now the American University of Beirut added to the lustre of the US. Only the Zionist Jews, about a tenth of the population, favoured the establishment of the Jewish national home; the Arabs said they “owned … the land … the Arabs were there before the Jews came …

            Was it all for nothing? There had come from the commission one other warning. “Not only you as president,” it told Wilson, “but the American people as a whole should realise that if the American government decided to support the establishment of a Jewish state in Palestine, they are committing the American people to the use of force in that area, since only by force can a Jewish state in Palestine be established or maintained.”

            https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/jared-kushner-middle-east-peace-solution-deal-syria-trump-a8988136.html

            And a video about culture

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZM7-ICS90w

            [Removed double spacing to improve readability]
            [Also deleted duplicate video clip]

            • Psycho Milt 1.1.3.3.1.1
              8 July 2019 at 6:22 am

              His education deconstructs a lot of PMs … 'english' history

              It reads like "PM" is intended to be me, but in that case the comment makes no sense.

              • reason …
                9 July 2019 at 11:01 am

                What makes no sense is some one like yourself claiming Arabs just like to blow things up … and 100,000 bombs and missiles dropped by the yanks on the people in Syria and Iraq ,,, and in only a small fraction of the time they have been destroying these people ….. stirs you …..to nothing

                Wars built on lies ….. to you … mean nothing.

                Libya

                a 31 year old women's rights defender who wishes to remain
                anonymous due to her fear of reprisal, told Amnesty International that she receives constant threats on Twitter. She said she abandoned Facebook because of the intensity ofthe abuse she experienced there. … On my social
                media accounts, people send private messages [through fake accounts]: lots of threats saying things like, ‘If we get our hands on you, we will rape you, show you what women’s rights are, beat you.’”
                Online threats of violence and smear campaigns have forced many women human rights defenders to keep a low profile

                In 2013, Libya’s Supreme Court ruled to authorize polygamy without the first wife’s consent or a court’s authorization,

                According to testimony by a Save the Children representative
                in 2016, 50 percent of the unaccompanied children treated by the organization’s doctors in Italy presented with a sexually transmitted infection (STI), which the medical personnel attributed to sexual exploitation during transit.
                40

                And although you think Gaddafi getting a NATO lynch mob death was good stuff …. "better off " in your words … it was both symbolic, and the prelude to what was about to happen to their whole society.

                Others can reflect on the children and other victims..,. while you make bullshit excuses…. and show your racist stripes.

                A devious liar telling lies to justify wars based on lies … Any outrage over Assange by you …. shows huge hypocrisy … stretched so thin even a blind man could see through you

                https://www.womensrefugeecommission.org/images/zdocs/Libya-Italy-Report-03-2019.pdf

            • greywarshark 1.1.3.3.1.2
              8 July 2019 at 12:12 pm

              Reason you have put up a lot of thoughtful stuff about war, world politics etc. I hope you have noted the way that the moderator has tidied up your comments. The present program gives double spacing when Enter is used and your comments got really spaced-out. And at the end it tends to add lots of spacing so you need to come up to just after your last full stop to limit that. That should make it easier to follow your thinking without extra mod work.

    • johnm 1.2
      7 July 2019 at 9:53 am

      100% reason 🙂 war crime after war crime after war crime. The Nuremburg declaration that hung the nazis for aggressive war doesn't apply to our WAR CRIMS.

      • Morrissey 1.2.1
        7 July 2019 at 10:10 am

        The Nuremburg declaration that hung [sic] the nazis….

        The word is "hanged."

        • johnm 1.2.1.1
          7 July 2019 at 10:51 am

          Interesting! Morrissey. apparently both are legit usage.

          Simple past

          I

          hanged; hung

          you

          hanged; hung

          he/she/it

          hanged; hung

          we

          hanged; hung

          you

          hanged; hung

          they

          hanged; hung

          https://en.bab.la/conjugation/english/hang

          • Morrissey 1.2.1.1.1
            7 July 2019 at 10:56 am

            Thanks, john. Whichever way, I'm looking forward to this news item, circa 2031…

            AP/CNN. The former prime minister of Great Britain, Tony Blair, was hanged/hung in Baghdad at 5:30 this morning. His accomplices in the rape of Iraq, George W. Bush and John Howard, will be hanged/hung in the coming week.

            • greywarshark 1.2.1.1.1.1
              7 July 2019 at 1:09 pm

              Don't hang out for that news re Blair Morrissey. I wonder what will be happening in 2031 – how many years away – 12. Would you like to list present problems and where the solutions have got to?

              I will ignore any wrong syntax? as I like people to express their ideas without having preachy or prosy others jumping in to raise diversions. A welcome distraction no doubt, but f..k annoying to people who want to see discussion on the immense and dramatic themes of the day. (I went to a Pop-up Globe production of Hamlet yesterday, couldn't hear or understand some of the language but kept watching and listening of course, and followed the story ok. It seemed very contemporary except for the clothing! Those famous speeches were powerful; What a piece of work is man, How noble his reason…)

              • higherstandard …
                7 July 2019 at 3:36 pm

                • greywarshark …
                  8 July 2019 at 11:59 am

                  To sleep perchance to dream. Hal asked if he would dream in Space Odyssey 2001. Perhaps the machines will be quoting our human Shakespeare to us, showing us the workings of their compassion circuits. (They were the basis of a SF short story I have read recently that has perverse results that the machine had not the imagination to comprehend. However that could be covered by better programming no doubt.) Sorry, I can't help thinking of the likely future when I look at the present posture.

        • Jilly Bee 1.2.1.2
          7 July 2019 at 11:06 am

          Thank you Morrissey, I was taught that too. wink

    • Adrian Thornton 1.3
      7 July 2019 at 11:44 am

      Psycho Milt using the Crass logo as his avatar is a insult to their legacy and most of what they stood for..but then Milt wouldn't get that….it’s like when I am out riding and see fat guys wearing the Yellow jersey of the Tour de France…no respect.

    • Sacha 1.4
      7 July 2019 at 4:09 pm

      Phil, can you please stop double-spacing your lines.

      More than enough to read already.

      Cheers.

      • Sacha 1.4.1
        7 July 2019 at 4:35 pm

        @incognito – thank you. feel free to delete my comment.

        • Incognito 1.4.1.1
          7 July 2019 at 4:44 pm

          I/we rarely delete (whole) comments unless they are obvious duplicates and technical or ‘thick finger’ glitches. Please leave to sockpoppet guesses to the moderators as it tends to distract and inflame.

          • Sacha 1.4.1.1.1
            7 July 2019 at 5:54 pm

            Sorry, had a reply from that handle previously confirming identity but I take your point.

    • Jenny - How to Get there? 1.5
      7 July 2019 at 8:41 pm

      The Great Noam Chomsky talks to Democracy now. The rise of fascism in the '30s and its echos with the rise of ultra nationalism now. Plus the positive popular movements against it.



  2. Andre 2
    7 July 2019 at 8:16 am

    Oooooh, that's gonna sting. Rooskies are laughing at Grand Marshal Bonespurs "low energy" "weak" parade.

    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/07/russia-state-media-mocks-trump-july-4-parade.html?via=homepage_taps_top

    • Psycho Milt 2.1
      7 July 2019 at 8:36 am

      To be fair, pretty much everything about the Trump presidency looks like a fat, slow-moving blimp to people seeking targets for mockery.

      • Andre 2.1.1
        7 July 2019 at 8:46 am

        Yeah, but very little of it penetrates that awesome ego-shield the BLOTUS has around him. That one might do it, tho.

        • marty mars 2.1.1.1
          7 July 2019 at 9:55 am

          Yep Julius Prawnhead will be upside himself on this one. He'll be hurting alright. Weak and low energy are not what he wants to project.

        • Psycho Milt 2.1.1.2
          7 July 2019 at 10:41 am

          Hmm, yes – mockery from the likes of us is one thing, mockery from other nationalist authoritarian leaders you'd like the approval of is quite another.

    • WeTheBleeple 2.2
      7 July 2019 at 9:04 am

      It was a rubbish parade, disjointed, lacklustre. And the music was worse. Then, the speech.

      My Fellow Americans; in 1886 our indomitable navy and its nuclear submarines had managed to surround and subdue the evil Martian forces attempting a beachhead on the dark side of the moon…

      Taihape's gumboot throwing competition had more excitement than Trumps parade.

      • greywarshark 2.2.1
        7 July 2019 at 1:17 pm

        It's sad to note that Taihape gumboot contest was on 23rd March this year. Next year let's be there and show the usa how a reverential day out for the masses can shine. Fred Dagg noted the importance of gumboots to the nation (and was on the nail with that). He was my hero and represented good people doing the mahi in an honest way, who will always eclipse town boys, out of condition, with hairpieces.

    • joe90 2.3
      7 July 2019 at 10:45 am

      that's gonna sting.

      Nah, he won't mind a bit.

      https://twitter.com/waltshaub/status/1147183957571702785

      https://www.politicususa.com/2019/07/05/trump-used-millions-of-taxpayer-dollars-to-film-a-campaign-ad.html

      And neither will Javanka Inc.

      Over the weekend, Jared Kushner was credited with negotiating a $110 billion arms deal to the Saudis, the largest arms deal in U.S. history:

      The deal was finalized in part thanks to the direct involvement of Jared Kushner, the President's son-in-law and senior adviser. He shocked a high-level Saudi delegation earlier this month when he personally called Lockheed Martin CEO Marillyn Hewson and asked if she would cut the price of a sophisticated missile detection system, according to a source with knowledge of the call.

      Pressured to finalize a massive $100-plus billion arms deal in the two weeks leading up to Trump's trip to Saudi Arabia, Kushner hoped to maneuver a discount on Lockheed's Terminal High Altitude Area Defense (THAAD) system during the Saudis' visit to the White House on May 1 — a request that Hewson said she would look into at the time.

      Coincidentally, the Saudis have also agreed to donate a whopping $100 million to the recently announced women's fund inspired by Jared Kushner’s wife, Ivanka Trump:

      The World Bank plans to announce Sunday at an event with Ivanka Trump, the U.S. president’s daughter and senior White House adviser, that Saudi Arabia and United Arab Emirates have pledged $100 million collectively toward a fund for women who own or want to start businesses, according to people familiar with the announcement.

      https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/5/21/1664578/-On-same-weekend-as-record-breaking-arms-deal-Saudis-announced-100-million-donation-to-Ivanka-fund

    • Adrian Thornton 2.4
      7 July 2019 at 11:54 am

      But to be fair, the Russians have a long history of serious Russian military parades..some of them rightfully celebrating their pivotal role in defeating European fascism…

      like this one..

  3. Dennis Frank 3
    7 July 2019 at 8:27 am

    Looks like the Trump presidency is now dead in the water. As Joe90 suggested last night, seems he's provided evidence of dementia. Here's the proof: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-revolutionary-war-airports/

    The quote from his speech gives sufficient context. “The Continental Army suffered a bitter winter of Valley Forge, found glory across the waters of the Delaware, and seized victory from Cornwallis of Yorktown. Our army manned the air, it rammed the ramparts, it took over the airports, it did everything it had to do."

    The Trump regime is full of deniers, recruited by the denier-in-chief, but if they try to deny this evidence they will just destroy whatever reputation they have. Even conservatives will replay the video and prove it to themselves!

    As I suggested last night, this will rapidly become a national security issue for the US administration, and a Wall St run can be expected promptly. Only fair to acknowledge that one swallow does not make a summer, so a pattern of such behaviour will have to be established before a team of experts confirms the diagnosis. However, rumour destroys a reputation real fast, and as soon as Trump + dementia achieves contagion in the US media it will be all over for him.

    Pence will go into a crisis cabinet meeting in an extremely strong position, and the other key players will watch Trump's bluster in increasing scepticism. Then it's just a matter of time before they accept the inevitability of the transition…

    • dv 3.1
      7 July 2019 at 8:36 am

      What is also telling is that the 'world leader'? in technology can't work a teleprompter in the rain.

      Geeez

      • WeTheBleeple 3.1.1
        7 July 2019 at 9:06 am

        Neither can he work an umbrella in the rain. It's an untenable position, but that's never stopped him before.

    • Andre 3.2
      7 July 2019 at 8:42 am

      They'll find it easier and safer to just do Weekend at Bernie's with him.

      If they try to remove him by the 25th Amendment, Donny Dotard is sure to fight it. Then it goes to Congress, where a 2/3 supermajority in both the Senate and the House is needed to remove him. That ain't gonna happen.

      It ain't gonna happen because I doubt I even need my second hand, let alone take my shoes off, to count up the total number of Repugs with enough spine to vote to remove Twitterfinger J. Tantrump. They'll be too scared to risk having him go Drumpfzilla on their asses and they'll get primaried by wrathful Drumpfkins. Or hell, spurned Drumpfkins might even be vengeful enough to vote for a Dem in the general election out of sheer spite towards anyone that acted against their fake-bronze idol.

    • Dennis Frank 3.3
      7 July 2019 at 8:43 am

      Whereas Pence & Pompeo will have primary leverage on the situation, watch what this guy says: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Esper

      He's only three weeks into the job of acting Secretary of Defense, but he's heartland establishment. "Esper was chief of staff at the Heritage Foundation, a conservative think tank, from 1996 to 1998."

      "He was policy director for the House Armed Services Committee from 2001 to 2002. From 2002 to 2004, Esper served in the George W. Bush administration as deputy assistant secretary of defense for negotiations policy, where he was responsible for a broad range of nonproliferation, arms control, and international security issues. He was director for national security affairs for the U.S. Senate"… He served as the 23rd United States Secretary of the Army from 2017 to 2019. Prior to his current position, he served as Vice President of government relations at Raytheon, a major U.S. defense contractor."

      But it will require a consensus of the Trump cabinet to control the president, and today they will be waking up to the new reality and wondering how to harness an increasingly loose cannon…

    • McFlock 3.5
      7 July 2019 at 4:42 pm

      Seriously, how is this any different to him being a compulsive bullshitter? Symptomatically, they're identical.

      For Dolt45's bullshit about airports to be a sign of dementia, facts would have to be relevant to his existance. They never have been. Not just in the last few years, but ever. He's cultivated an image of success while being incapable of running a casino. He called reporters pretending to be other people to be his own character reference. His claims of wealth were based on lies. Buildings and businesses paid to use his name when he had nothing to do with them.

      For seventy years the fool has simply said whatever sounded good at the time. The only people who give a serious shit about this speech are people who think that facts have some shred of relevance to his behaviour.

      His followers will remember it sounded good at the time, and explain it away as trolling liberal elites if people point out the absurdity of what he actually said.

      • Andre 3.5.1
        7 July 2019 at 5:01 pm

        What's symptomatically different about now compared to his lifelong history of bullshit is once upon a time he could string together complete sentences into paragraphs that were consistent with a coherent train of thought, even when the thought itself was objectively nonsense. He simply can't do that anymore. And even just during his time in office there's been a noticeable decline in what comes out of his mouth bearing any resemblance to trying to convey a coherent idea.

        In interviews in the 1980s and '90s, according to Stat News, Trump "spoke articulately, used sophisticated vocabulary, inserted dependent clauses into his sentences without losing his train of thought, and strung together sentences into a polished paragraph, which — and this is no mean feat — would have scanned just fine in print."

        https://edition.cnn.com/2019/04/05/opinions/trump-is-spouting-nonsense-at-a-greater-rate-dantonio/index.html

        and:

        https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2019/04/09/does-donald-trump-have-dementia-we-need-know-psychologist-column/3404007002/

        • McFlock 3.5.1.1
          7 July 2019 at 6:11 pm

          Yeah, but assuming a decline, is that dementia or just the result of decades of putting as little as possible effort into bullshit?

          When I was a bouncer, a colleague mentioned that before he'd started the work he'd been a chill and mellow dude, after five years he was a sour bastard. Having pushed a keyboard for ten years, that's shaped my personality in another way.

          I just think that if you've never had to persuade anyone, engage with anyone, share yourself with anyone, remember anything about anyone, had anyone be critical about your conversation (or had to measure your speech with them), none of it for decades… that's gotta screw up your handle on reality.

          • marty mars 3.5.1.1.1
            7 July 2019 at 6:57 pm

            Yep – it's a dicey game calling reduced mental functionality – often one thing looks like another.

      • Dennis Frank 3.5.2
        7 July 2019 at 5:18 pm

        I'm seeing a substantive difference. If it isn't early onset dementia, he can gloss it by saying he studied real estate at university, not history, but it's still an awful stretch for him. It's more the effect on the other key rightists that will be decisive. If the establishment decides that non-conformist rebellion has actually been replaced by irrational decision-making, they'll pull the plug. Too much at stake.

        • Andre 3.5.2.1
          7 July 2019 at 5:35 pm

          The examples made of Jeff Flake, Bob Corker, John McCain, Mark Sanford, Justin Amash and even Dean Heller are sufficient to ensure very few Repugs will ever significantly cross Tyrannosaurus Arse.

          • Dennis Frank 3.5.2.1.1
            7 July 2019 at 5:48 pm

            If you mean the top dog theory (dominance hierarchy) then I don't see it applying. Were you here when Muldoon was in charge? Sure as hell applied then. But you know all them checks & balances designed into the US political structure by the Constitution that we only have a semblance of. Add to that the immense array of powers behind the scenes in the US that we lack. I expect his cabinet to assume control at some point.

            That said, I don't discount Trump's survival skills. It hinges on whether dementia is actually a happening thing…

            • Anne 3.5.2.1.1.1
              7 July 2019 at 5:59 pm

              @ DF and Andre

              Of course the the other possibility is that he's so totally out of his depth, he’s suffering from cerebral stress which he covers up with his over the top bouts of bullying and bravado.

              Then again that might be a form of dementia too.

              • Andre …
                7 July 2019 at 6:22 pm

                It might not be actual dementia, but from the outside it's functionally indistinguishable from dementia.

            • Andre 3.5.2.1.1.2
              7 July 2019 at 6:19 pm

              What I mean is that Darth Hater has already demonstrated he will take an intense personal interest in trying to destroy the political career and personal reputation of anyone who demonstrates insufficient loyalty. And usually succeeds. Even when it's detrimental to his actual personal interests and his ability to impose his personal whim on the government.

              Note that the cabinet and Pence do not have the ability to remove the genital-grabbing golem from from office if he chooses to fight it. Read up on the 25th Amendment for the process. It would be astonishing if he didn't fight it.

              If he is actually successfully removed from office, he won't even have the notional restraint of needing to keep some support in the House and Senate. He would be completely unleashed to go on whatever kind of rampage he wanted on the asses of the Repugs from the House and Senate that voted against him. Even the Kraken would be impressed with the result.

              Even in the unlikely event that they manage to fit him with an orange jumpsuit, he could still do an awful lot of damage from behind bars.

              • Sacha …
                7 July 2019 at 6:30 pm

                A cheeseburger will take him out.

              • Dennis Frank …
                7 July 2019 at 6:38 pm

                Hmm. If dementia is in onset mode, incidences of irrationality will gradually increase. Public concern will increase in proportion. Powers that be will already be seeking to act – yet if you're right they will realise they are confined by a constitutional strait-jacket. In that scenario, everyone ends up in uncharted territory.

                National security is the bottom line. If Trump becomes a threat to it, congress/senate will have to agree to an amendment to the constitution to remove the threat, right? Can he veto it if it happens?

                • Andre …
                  7 July 2019 at 7:03 pm

                  A constitutional amendment has to be passed by 2/3 supermajorities in both the House and the Senate, then it goes out to the states where 3/4 of the states have to ratify it before it comes into force. As far as I can tell, the president has no part in constitutional amendments. But the process takes years even for the fastest ones.

                  The lowest bar to clear for removing the president is impeachment – that only requires a simple majority in the House and 2/3 in the Senate. So if somehow Pence and the cabinet felt an immediate need to remove him, they could immediately get him out using the 25th, then as I understand it, they can keep him out for about a month until it has to go to a vote in the House and Senate. If it looked like they might get 2/3 in the Senate, but not in the House, they could use that month to ram through an emergency impeachment.

                  But 2/3 in the Senate means all Dems plus 20 Repugs to get to the 67 required. At the moment, the only Repugs that even look like possibles are Mitt Romney, Susan Collins, Lisa Murkowski, Ben Sasse, Rand Paul. At a massive stretch you might get Joni Ernst, Rick Scott, Marco Rubio, Ted Cruz, Rob Portman. Get all of those and it's still 9 short.

                  • Dennis Frank …
                    7 July 2019 at 7:18 pm

                    Okay, that seems workable. Think beyond the current reality. You know how the market is driven by greed & fear? Fear of Trump losing the plot will suffice to ebb the market once people absorb George Washington taking over the airports.

                    Then they start wondering what next. Loss of confidence is all it takes to send business into caution mode. Once Wall St shifts, politicians will realise they must follow. Can't make America great again if a premature geriatric is pretending to lead while dropping random irrationalities at times. Not a good look.

    • Ad 3.6
      7 July 2019 at 8:38 pm

      Donald Trump has a more than even chance of being re-elected President of the United States.

      • Andre 3.6.1
        7 July 2019 at 8:46 pm

        Yup. Of the last 7 sitting presidents going for another term, 4 of them got it.

        • Drowsy M. Kram 3.6.1.1
          7 July 2019 at 10:16 pm

          Nancy, I'm worried, should a pre-teen girl like myself feel so disoriented?
          (Secret serviceman dives on microphone)

  4. johnm 4
    7 July 2019 at 8:29 am

    Beyond climate tipping points
    Greenhouse gas levels exceed the stability limit of the
    Greenland and Antarctic ice sheets

    by Andrew Glikson

    The pace of global warming has been grossly underestimated. As the world keeps increasing its carbon dioxide (CO₂) emissions, rising in 2018 to a record 33.1 billion ton of CO₂ per year, the atmospheric greenhouse gas level has now exceeded 560 ppm (parts per million) CO₂-equivalent, namely when methane and nitrous oxide are included. This level surpasses the stability threshold of the Greenland and Antarctic ice sheets. The term “climate change” is thus no longer appropriate, since what is happening in the atmosphere-ocean system, accelerating over the last 70 years or so, is an abrupt calamity on a geological dimension, threatening nature and human civilization. Ignoring what the science says, the powers-that-be are presiding over the sixth mass extinction of species, including humanity.

    As conveyed by leading scientists “Climate change is now reaching the end-game, where very soon humanity must choose between taking unprecedented action, or accepting that it has been left too late and bear the consequences” (Prof. Hans Joachim Schellnhuber) … “We’ve reached a point where we have a crisis, an emergency, but people don’t know that … There’s a big gap between what’s understood about global warming by the scientific community and what is known by the public and policymakers” (Prof. James Hansen). http://arctic-news.blogspot.com/

    • johnm 4.1
      7 July 2019 at 8:34 am

      Summary and conclusions

      1. Global greenhouse gases have reached a level exceeding the stability threshold of the Greenland and Antarctic ice sheets, melting at an accelerated rate.
      2. The current growth rate of atmospheric greenhouse gas of 3.42 ppm CO₂/year is the fastest recorded for the last 55 million years.
      3. Allowing for the transient albedo enhancing effects of sulphur dioxide and other aerosols, mean global temperature has reached about 2 degrees Celsius above pre-industrial temperatures.
      4. Due to hysteresis the large ice sheets outlast their melting temperatures.
      5. Cold ice melt water flowing from the ice sheets at an accelerated rate will reduce the temperature of large ocean tracts in the North Atlantic and circum-Antarctic. Strong temperature contrasts between cold polar-derived air and water masses and tropical air and water masses would result in extreme weather events, retarding agriculture in large parts of the world.
      6. Humans will survive in relatively favorable parts of Earth, such as sub-polar regions and sheltered mountain valleys, where hunting of surviving fauna may be possible.
      7. In the wake of partial melting of the large ice sheets, the Earth climate would shift to polarized conditions including reduced polar ice sheets and tropical to super-tropical regions such as existed in the Miocene (5.3 – 23 million years ago) (Figure 5). http://arctic-news.blogspot.com/
      • KJT 4.1.1
        7 July 2019 at 12:14 pm

        Don't worry.

        The US Republican party says it is not happening!

        And, our National party agrees it is happening, except when meeting with Fed farmers, but opposes bitterly, any attempt to do anything about it.

        Labour will declare a climate emergency, but won't change the RMA, to require anthropogenic global warming to be a factor in decisions.

        NZ first will oppose anything, which affects geriatric Queen Street capital gains tax farmers.

        The Greens, do not have enough votes yet, to change anything, and our media will rubbish anything they do try.

  7. Rosemary McDonald 7
    7 July 2019 at 10:13 am

    Well. This is going to be interesting.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12235325

    "Looming crisis: nearly 500,000 unpaid carers and a rapid ageing population"

    This afternoon the Government is expected to make an announcement about a disability law that has been described as a "shame on society" and overhaul its policy on paying families who care for their disabled loved ones. Health reporter Emma Russell looks at the reason for change.

    Every morning Geoff Wales would wake at the crack of dawn – often distressed."

    The rest is behind the paywall…and I'm disinclined to spend even a dollar on what is likely to be wispy and watered down policy that will confuse the issue taken to the Human Rights Review Tribunal and a ridiculous number of High and Appeal Courts who all decided that those of us providing a high level of care to disabled family members should be paid as any other carer providing the same supports.

    Please god let me be proven wrong.

    • marty mars 7.1
      7 July 2019 at 10:20 am

      I hope they pay you and others for the support you all give to your loved ones. This just has to be fixed – it is a blight on our society.

    • WeTheBleeple 7.2
      7 July 2019 at 10:41 am

      Fingers crossed for you and all the caregivers and disabled subject to callous disregard. I've barely spoken on all this as I'm out of my depth. I do think you've been minimised and treated poorly and it is a sad indictment on NZ where our most vulnerable get a shit deal.

      Fingers crossed on both hands, rabbits foot, four leaf clover…

      Good Luck!

    • Rosemary McDonald 7.3
      7 July 2019 at 11:12 am

      The support is appreciated, and I'd just like to say that is not only jaded and cynical moi that has few hopes the the kind of policy 900 of us discussed last year for this piece of work ( https://www.health.govt.nz/system/files/documents/publications/targeted_engagement_on_funded_family_care_and_paid_family_care_20_november_2018.pdf

      will actually come to fruition.

      What really concerns me is already the headlines are talking about 500,000 unpaid carers which is bullshit in the context of Ministry of Health Disability Support Services clients which the Family Carer cases were about. No time to dig right now but at the last count, MOH;DSS barely had 40,000 clients in total, for the whole country. Most of those with very high support needs are reciveing funding for their care. There are only a few who are entirely cared for by unpaid family carers.

      This is the kind of alarmist crap that Ryall pumped out back in 2012/2013. The Herald can only have got wind of this announcement from…someone in government?

      SSDD.

      [Removed white space]

      • Sacha 7.3.1
        7 July 2019 at 12:38 pm

        The concern from risk-averse government has always been the precedent broader than DSS budgets – the 500k total would be across all government portfolios and life situations. Still easy enough to address the scope and repeal this bullshit law, you'd think.

      • greywarshark 7.3.2
        7 July 2019 at 12:48 pm

        The neolib influenced government agencies were advised in the 1980’s that vulnerable people should be given less services designed specially to help them, and that they should be integrated into and supported by the community.

        This would take the responsibility of providing funding for care and support being a charge on the taxation system which could then be reduced to allow the already wealthy and c-off to keep more of 'their well-earned money resulting from their hard work'. When they had problems themselves, they would be able to access help from the state and supplement it with spending to suit their own individual standards.

        The rest who just wanted good basic help as needed for their particular condition could take part in a lolly scramble of grants to be applied for, and which would be available for a finite time and then stopped to ensure that the aid group did not develop 'institutional helplessness' Any help would be given on a temporary basis, even if the conditions and the problems arising from them were chronic, permanent.

        The whole neolib idea is that people should not get too comfortable as that makes them lazy and dependent; everybody should be kept on their toes, striving and be made to feel that they are unworthy to expect more. Those who succeeded to have a good lifestyle had achieved that through working hard, and making good financial decisions. Those who aren't socially and financially upwardly mobile are lesser beings, and are a drag on society.

        That is the viewpoint of this economic and social culture we now have. Once you understand this, you will also understand recent history, and why so many things negative to the citizens have been done, questioned as negative, but then repeated, or carried out in a different form.

        If you want to change anything, you need to understand what you are up against and find a way to go around, get leverage into, the fortress mentality that is around the pump-houses for this neolib economy. To the denizens rewarded by the neo-lib economy the problems of the 'outsiders' are a bit remote, the mouthings of the street dwellers separated by thick glass windows from the warm interior with everything conducive to enjoyment. For many, our societal divide and the real problems of nearly 50% are similar to many computer games of aimless attacks and defence.

        I think Rosemary would know all this, and it illuminates the background to her efforts and her feelings of anger at the refusal to respect her work and assist her when she and others in similar circumstances, need more practical support and funding to enable them to have a simple life that can be enjoyed.

        • Rosemary McDonald 7.3.2.1
          7 July 2019 at 8:29 pm

          You know what has been the saddest part of this GWS?

          That honesty and transparency have been sacrificed by so many players. Back in 2013 when National/Maori/Act rushed through the Part 4 amendment I dived down a rabbit hole determined to find out the why and the how and the who of this sorry saga.

          I already knew from reading decisions and sitting in Courtrooms that 'truth' was a variable concept and that the Ministry of Health Disability Support Services struggled with accurate descriptions of of what services they were funding and how they managed to meet the support needs of eligible disabled clients who required advanced personal cares that they, MOH DSS, were not funding the contracted providers enough $$$ to provide. They never once admitted that this was the case, and that for many the only option other than institutional care was care from a family member. This very probably accounts for some of the at least 244 family carers who were being paid. Through dodgy back door deals that the Ministry claimed no knowledge of.

          Yet the contracted providers were happy to do these deals because if no one was paid to provide the care they didn't get to clip the ticket.

          So I followed that stream of $$$.

          Then I followed the $$$ that both Labour then National were more than happy for the Ministry of Health to send to 'advocacy' organisations, 'charities,' who purported to represent disabled people and family carers. $$$ that flowed providing they either kept quite about the Atkinson case, or in the case of Carers NZ actively spoke out against the policy that this Current Mob has promised today to initiate.

          Prior to the legislative outrage that was the amendment to the Public Health and Disability Act (http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2013/0022/latest/whole.html) there was very little in the way of support from these MOH funded advocacy groups. These group were funded under the provisions in the 2000 PHDAct because that Act demanded consumer advisory groups. Helps enormously to push through shit policies if your 'advisors' are dependent on your largesse to survive.

          All very messy and all very incestuous and I'll be closer to content if these deceptions and misrepresentations are admitted to and apologised for.

          I fear I'll sit below contentment for some time yet.

          • greywarshark 7.3.2.1.1
            7 July 2019 at 9:25 pm

            It has been hard to follow your journey Rosemary for me reading it. Your dogged efforts have been much harder and I do hope you have received the assistance that you and other carers deserve. The prosy goings on of MPs going for a successful career rather than serving the people is sickening. And the contrast I read some years ago, between one well-known female's negative opinion of citizens medical needs and what she accepted as her right when her own child needed treatment because of neglecting her health regime, was startling.

            It's amazing how people can just be chopped off the list if the list is too long. That is basically how government agencies manage their work. Not satisfactory when looking after a family member with limited mobility etc. My sister is doing some part-time teaching which the agency refuses to pay her for because she didn't tick the right box. She has decided to give that claim away but do it differently next time so it fits. You have to be nimble to keep up with the players in government these days, they never were perfect, but the old-style government didn't employ thousands of PR people to smooth out wrinkles.

            Here is hoping for smooth unfolding of the proper system. I look forward to the fat lady singing; used to think that was sexist, now I think it is a declaration of strength and purpose.

      • SPC 7.3.3
        7 July 2019 at 4:02 pm

        500,000 carers would have to include (non working) mothers.

        • Rosemary McDonald 7.3.3.1
          7 July 2019 at 7:40 pm

          SPC. Back in 2008 when the Atkinson "Family Carer Case" was being heard at the Human Rights Review Tribunal the Ministry of Health's expert numbers guy came up with a projected costing for paying family carers of between $17 to 593 million.

          So the very big and scary numbers swirling around this issue are nothing new.

          And bless him, the numbers guy for the plaintiffs, the family carers, put his estimated costs at $32-64 million.

          Guess what this Government have budgeted to rectify this injustice?

          $32 million.
          http://www.nzlii.org/nz/cases/NZHRRT/2010/1.html

          Brian Easton still holds true.

    • Sacha 7.4
      7 July 2019 at 12:31 pm

      At last. I will be interested to hear why it has taken them so long to get this through. Where was the resistance this time?

    • Sacha 7.5
      7 July 2019 at 2:38 pm

      Announced: https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12247372

      Parents and spouses will be paid up to $25.50 an hour to look after ill or disabled family members under new changes announced today by Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern.

      The changes will come into effect in 2020 once legislation has gone through a select committee process which will include public consultation.

      …

      They confirmed that the Government would repeal part 4A of the NZ Public Health and Disability Act…

      • Rosemary McDonald 7.5.1
        7 July 2019 at 2:53 pm

        Well. Bugger me dead.

        I'll be more than happy to eat crow if it unfolds as the article states. More than happy.

        Another who will no doubt be smiling is Jo Esplin from Sapare who engineered and facilitated the Targeted Engagement…

        https://www.health.govt.nz/system/files/documents/publications/targeted_engagement_on_funded_family_care_and_paid_family_care_20_november_2018.pdf

        …when we spoke with her last year she indicated she would not be pleased if yet another bit of work was ignored by the Powers That Be.

        There will be a party at ours when that shitty little piece of legislative work gets repealed.

        Good work this Current Mob. smiley

        • Sacha 7.5.1.1
          7 July 2019 at 2:59 pm

          Good people at Sapere.

          • Rosemary McDonald 7.5.1.1.1
            7 July 2019 at 3:11 pm

            Good people at Sapere.

            Indeed. And I took great delight in thanking Jo for her work so far on these issues…she co authored the Spinal Cord Impairment Strategy Situation Analysis Paper back in 2012.

            https://d3nd7i493f0o21.cloudfront.net/assets/upload/354346/1298337631/SCI%20Strategy%20Situation%20Analysis%20Paper%2027%20Feb%202013%20%28FINAL%29.pdf

            (I see it is still available via some weird Public Address thingy…I remember when it got totally lost and we had to Wayback it. Happens to some of the good stuff. wink)

            So looking forward to the finer details.

            • patricia bremner 7.5.1.1.1.1
              7 July 2019 at 3:36 pm

              Rosemary, well done to all those who went as witnesses to tell of their pain and troubles.

              We hope this is all you and we asked for. Will be watching hopefully.

              • Rosemary McDonald …
                7 July 2019 at 4:38 pm

                Thanks Patricia…still a little suspicious (hey, its been 20years in the borning…I'm allowed a little cynicism cheeky) but reading the links that Sacha has put up it does seem that this is something ALL the Current Mob agree on.

                I'm asking why now, and why not even a hint at Budget time?

                • SPC …
                  7 July 2019 at 5:02 pm

                  It also agreed to repeal Part 4A of the NZ Public Health and Disability Act

                  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12132665

                  So this was inevitable. The decision would be over payment anount and budget inclusion – this would involve the who and consistency with other decisions (such as ending younger spouse qualifying).

                • patricia bremner …
                  7 July 2019 at 5:28 pm

                  Perhaps having to prove to Winston/et al the money is available? Or perhaps the legislation wasn't ready? Or they wanted to do it properly and keep control rather than Treasury or others? Time will tell.

                  You have every right to be cynical, but I'm more hopeful than any time in 20 years. I do believe they care and are trying to undo some pretty entrenched attitudes and bad legislation.

                  I just hope they get in again and continue with the work.

            • One Two 7.5.1.1.1.2
              7 July 2019 at 3:51 pm

              Hi Rosemary…

              It sounds very encouraging, and hopefully that is how it plays out for the assistance to all those impacted by such circumstances…

              Do you know when the finer details might be available for someone such as yourself to assess and comment on?

              From the stuff article linked to by Sacha (cheers), the high level reads as encouraging and positive…but that would need to be assessed against the present restrictions and inequalities such as you have regularly posted on at this site…

              If you get the opportunity to comment on the details over time, that would be appreciated….

              • Rosemary McDonald …
                7 July 2019 at 5:35 pm

                Hey One Two. No one will be searching and eventually scrutinising the finer details closer than myself when they are revealed.

                It appears there will be Select Committee hearings and a chance to make submissions.

                Even though we have thrown so much of ourselves over the years into this and have become almost permanently cynical about the whole issue, Peter and I will endeavour to participate in good faith in this process.

                Good faith generally means to discuss with each other any matter which affects the delivery of the disability support services in an open way so that all matters are "on the table", to be active and constructive in establishing and maintaining a good relationship, being responsive, providing information, and not doing anything that might mislead or deceive each other .

                https://gazette.govt.nz/notice/id/2013-go6248

                The Funded Family Care Notice 2013

        • Sacha 7.5.1.2
          7 July 2019 at 3:12 pm

          Stuff story: https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/114054666/caregiving-parents-and-partners-of-disabled-people-to-be-paid–govt

          Law changes, announced by the Government on Sunday, would also remove the requirement for an "employment relationship between a disabled person and their family member.

          Associate Minister of Health Julie-Ann Genter said the Government would be considering "alternative options" for the employment arrangement…

          Govt media release: http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1907/S00052/government-changes-funded-family-care-policy.htm

          NZ First media release: http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1907/S00053/greater-support-and-restoration-of-rights-for-family-carers.htm

          • Rosemary McDonald 7.5.1.2.1
            7 July 2019 at 5:06 pm

            Really pleased to see Carers Alliance stalwart John Forman at the do at Government House. Unlike the secretariat of Carers NZ, John was always outspoken about the need for better recognition of the work families do for those with very high support needs. He was positively spewing when the Part 4 amendment to the PHD Act was passed.

            I was speaking with another family carer earlier and we were trying to guess at what the finer details might be.

            Got to thinking that perhaps the way round the issue with some parent carers not happy being employees of their children might be to have the carers as employees of a contracted provider, who then accepts the contract to provide care for the client.

            This was one of the mechanisms whereby the 244 family carers who were being paid a wage that the HRRT heard about in 2008 were able to be paid.

            The other mechanism was through Individualised Funding.

            What still sticks in my craw is that none of those contracted providers who were clipping the funding ticket by enabling the back door payment of a family carer ever fronted up in the submissions or the consultation workshops in 2012…and even worse the NZDSN came over all hand wringlingly concerned at the risk of having family carers paid….when their own professional staff were doing such a fine job.

            http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/8712453/Abuse-claims-at-seriously-dysfunctional-care-home

            Moreover none, and I repeat absolutely none, of the family carers who were being paid despite the discriminatory policy ever fronted up to either the media or in a publicly accessible submission before or after those arseholes in the National, Maori and Act parties rushed through that legislation.

            Their reward was to have a sizable extension to the period set out in that legislation that they could continue to enjoy the financial benefits of having the dignity of paid work.

            Shit.

            So much of it has flowed from this issue over the years it will take more than happy clappy announcements. An inquiry? At least an apology from the Ministry of Health Disability Support Services?

            Thanks Sacha for putting up those links. (We were out earlier and I can't do the link thing from my phone.)

      • SPC 7.5.2
        7 July 2019 at 3:52 pm

        This may be part of the trend to individualism in support – so those unable to work because of their care role, themselves receive support.

        We can see steps to this, in PL, in continuing support for those with young children (including WFF).

        There is only limited access to the JSB (old UB) for those with partners (heavily means tested) and unpaid “voluntary” workers are not yet entitled to the JSB (while they are unavailable to work).

        The sort of smart targeted UI to those unable to be part of the paid workforce economy.

        • SPC 7.5.2.1
          7 July 2019 at 5:05 pm

          In that regard eventually focus will have to fall on the 90,000 on SLP and its amount adequacy – this is lower than Super and to people who may never own property and or develop private savings.

          • Rosemary McDonald 7.5.2.1.1
            7 July 2019 at 7:26 pm

            The 'Supported' Living Payment is a joke. An absolute insult and contemptuous of those who would work if they could work but they can't. It's as if its been set at a level that drives you so low you lose the will to live.

            Living as a couple on the SLP was hard…year after year…and the final straw was having to remortgage our home to pay for vital repairs in 2010. Then having extra $$$ to pay per week from the same amount of benefit because we only borrowed the barest minimum and this was not enough to qualify for even a dollar of Accommodation Allowance.

            When Peter graduated to the National Super and we went into the local office to sort it out, we were invited to sit in a special 'Seniors' waiting area….separate from the rank and file on the Jobseekers, SLP and DPB.

            We said no thanks to their 'special' seats.

            The few dollars extra per week on the Super made an enormous amount of difference and living most of the time in the Bus we could actually save a few $$$ per week.

  8. joe90 8
    7 July 2019 at 11:28 am

    Dershowitz trying to bury his misdeeds, again. Of course the vile Epstein gets a mention as does tRumps labour secretary, Alexander Acosta.

    It’s a high-stakes war between two of the country’s most powerful lawyers. Their feud, simmering for years, involves accusations of extortion, surreptitious recordings, unethical conduct and underage sex trafficking.

    Harvard lawyer Alan Dershowitz has filed four bar complaints in three states — all of which have been dismissed — in a quest to disqualify lawyer David Boies and one of his partners who represent a woman accusing Dershowitz of sexually abusing her when she was underage, newly filed court records show.

    […]

    In the lawsuit, two of Epstein’s victims claimed that federal prosecutors in Florida had improperly brokered a non-prosecution agreement in 2008 with Epstein and his lawyers without informing them, as was required by law. The deal, negotiated by then-Miami U.S. Attorney Alexander Acosta, was signed and sealed in secret, and by the time Epstein’s victims learned about the deal — months later — it was too late for them to object.

    Epstein was allowed to plead guilty in state court to two prostitution charges and served 13 months in the Palm Beach County jail, where he was given liberal work release, including permission to use his own valet to pick him up at the jail every day and take him to his office in downtown Palm Beach.

    Edwards and Cassell argued that the deal was illegal, and in February, a federal judge agreed, affirming that Acosta and other prosecutors violated the Crime Victims’ Rights Act by misleading Epstein’s victims into believing that prosecutors and the FBI were still investigating the case when they had quietly disposed of it.

    https://amp.miamiherald.com/news/state/florida/article232312102.html

  9. greywarshark 9
    7 July 2019 at 12:23 pm

    I'm impressed by Phil Goff's blunt comments showing his understanding of likely criminal activity of deportees from Australian selective prejudice.

    Goff notes they have no support and are not easily able to fit into NZ society and have been banished from their immediate family.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/393810/it-s-inevitable-deportees-will-turn-to-crime-goff

    Of the nearly 1700 people sent from Australia since the start of 2015, more than 40 percent have been charged with an offence in New Zealand.

    • WeTheBleeple 9.1
      7 July 2019 at 1:29 pm

      Well, NZ prisoners have a 70% recidivism rate within two years, so these imports are actually bucking the trend. Though, if the real figures of those committing crimes were known, they might compete handily with the 'locals'.

  10. greywarshark 10
    7 July 2019 at 1:56 pm

    The campaign of Big Pharma to crack our effective Pharmac goes on, helped by Guyon Espiner's expose' of how cancer patients can't access every latest medicine at no matter what the cost. And there are numerous examples of people afflicted, who have families and good lives, and don't want to die. It wrenches the heart to think of them. Cancer takes so many these days, and it's not good enough. Everyone who dies from cancer is said to have battled with it in their death notices. The fact that cancer is so widespread and cuts into people's lives is a major disgrace, worse than rheumatoid arthritis in NZ children, rotting teeth etc.

    The ailments that particularly affect the poor are not so well-publicised with fewer, less glamorous people giving anecdotes of their pain and suffering and need. The well-heeled provide the target ammunition of choice for Big Pharma to aim at us. Big Pharma have chosen cancer as the problem of the wealthy, and there is potential big money in selling NZ their wonder drugs, at as high profit as possible. (By the way I think NZ is the only other country besides the USA to allow medicines to be advertised on television.) The sufferers and their specialists, would like to win another year or so at the expense of the nation's sufferers of other diseases and ailments, maybe some of them will work. The idea seems to be 'Let us try them, we may be able to alleviate the symptoms.' Note, not cure them.

    I think it would be most reasonable, that the people who wish to try these drugs should have tax relief on the payments they make. That would be fair. But hearing that one person lived for ten years, not the one-year which had been the reckon of the specialist, doesn't mean that the public system can or should shell out huge sums for those considering themselves deserving. We can't afford it. Please note that, and that we are about to be hit by tropical diseases, are being hit by stress diseases, stronger influenzas, resurgence of tricky tuberculosis and others not thought about much – ebola? Our government can't even fund proper, modern conditions for all women for childbirth, our time of life creation which requires real hard work for a number of people, plus facilities better than the fields, and huts of third world countries. Let's get real, treat sick and terminally ill people well, but don't allow the monolithic greed of Profit to take precedence.

    Pharmac are not satisfied with the cost-effectiveness of most of the new drugs, but that doesn't count to the protesters because other countries have bowed to them like Australia, and the UK and no doubt the USA where all are rich and the government helps every citizen!? So why can't we be like those other countries and just follow foreign precedent like we usually do?

    Media Watch put up a brief summary of the situation this morning. I thought it was informative. https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/mediawatch/audio/2018702689/cancer-campaign-coverage-puts-heat-on-pharmac

    • SPC 10.1
      7 July 2019 at 4:19 pm

      An unofficial information campaign as to how Kiwis can cross the Tasman and access their health care treatments for cancer would be a nice balance to their deportation policy.

  11. CHCoff 11
    7 July 2019 at 1:59 pm

    https://luxtimes.lu/european-union/37822-how-emmanuel-macron-won-the-battle-over-the-eu-s-top-jobs

    It is the nature of modern media to thrive on a battle a day somewhat but..

    From the outside, it seems the EU is using a representative democracy system, not first past the post or direct democracy, with it's proportioned parliament body of the citizen vote.

    So it seems quite reasonable that the Who is the How, & the how is not direct but representational in what works ( & in this case the experts are respective govt. ministers which seems fair), that is in enabling a package that can incorporate a majority block in providing legitimacy of the citizen vote.

    So there seems like a lot of common sense interest is built into the system to respect but work together with the differences resulting from the citizen vote(s), along with clear enough lines of accountability the EU citizen voter could follow in system negligence. Seems pretty good all things considered.

  12. Dennis Frank 12
    7 July 2019 at 2:21 pm

    "Britain’s ambassador in the United States has described President Donald Trump and his administration as “inept” and “uniquely dysfunctional”, according to ‘leaked’ diplomatic memos published by the Mail on Sunday. Ambassador Kim Darroch reportedly said Trump’s presidency could “crash and burn” and “end in disgrace”, in the cache of secret cables and briefing notes sent back to Britain and seen by the newspaper."

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jul/07/donald-trump-inept-and-dysfunctional-uk-ambassador-to-us-says

    Providing such advice to the British govt seems unusual for a tory diplomat. No rightist solidarity in sight. Things must be grim for him to be so blunt!

    "Darroch is one of Britain’s most experienced diplomats whose posting in Washington DC began in January 2016, prior to Trump winning the presidency. The Mail on Sunday said the memos, likely leaked by someone within Britain’s sprawling civil service, cover a period beginning in 2017."

    • WeTheBleeple 12.1
      7 July 2019 at 2:39 pm

      Yeah Trump's in bed with the whole Brexit Party sideshow. Carving up Britain for privatisation is the end goal. NHS firmly in their sights. The Tories would like to do that for themselves, not American upstarts.

      joe90 linked to a map with all the ties: climate denial, big oil, PR companies, loads of journalists and industrialists, Trump and Boris smack bang in the middle of it.

      A simultaneous siphoning of government (public) funds offshore also taking place through layers of shell companies, many of which trace back to this network of nincompoops. Which side which is on (Tory/Brexiteer) is likely all smoke and mirrors too.

  13. Dennis Frank 13
    7 July 2019 at 4:05 pm

    The Washington Post is featuring President Trump’s Revolutionary War quiz. "5. True or false?: When Thomas Jefferson wrote in the Declaration of Independence that “all men are created equal,” he deliberately did not mention lesbian soccer stars, Muslim mayors of London or kneeling NFL players."

    From a commenter: "More evidence, which people will only acknowledge in hindsight, that Trump has early stage dementia." Another: "Pence rushed back from NH because Trump went completely mental and he was needed to help talk him down from the ceiling, or take over as President if the strong anti-psychotics didn’t work."

  14. R.P Mcmurphy 14
    7 July 2019 at 4:12 pm

    facebook poll says standardistas are fence sitting blatherers and irrelevant!

    • greywarshark 14.1
      7 July 2019 at 5:08 pm

      The social media they will say anything to get more clicks!

      pacefook boll – a sort of weevil (Unreliable Word Pathologist)

    • Gabby 14.2
      7 July 2019 at 5:47 pm

      That's the Combine at work Murph.

    • Fireblade 14.3
      7 July 2019 at 6:06 pm

      Kiwiblog is irrelevant now. ysb.co.nz is the new echo chamber for the right and hard-right.

      • Sacha 14.3.1
        7 July 2019 at 7:25 pm

        Nice that someone has provided the beige badger's refugees with a sanctuary.

  15. Morrissey 15
    7 July 2019 at 7:21 pm

    Mr. Brown's Ploys

    Sorry, guys, I know the RNZ National listeners amongst you have already had an unpleasant up-close-and-personal with that nasty propagandist Simon Schama yesterday, but here's another right wing Labourite to ruin what's left of your Sunday. It's my duty to inform you that the ethical vacuum that is Gordon Brown has predictably joined the McCarthyite chorus.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-antisemitism-gordon-brown-expel-members-chris-williamson-jeremy-corbyn-a8990641.html

    http://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/thread/1562426351.html

  16. greywarshark 16
    7 July 2019 at 8:23 pm

    Talk on LBC about possible thoughts of Queen on a proroguing parliament.

    LBC is a talk-back radio which was called London Broadcast Company owned by Global (It is the owner of the largest commercial radio company in Europe having expanded through a number of historical acquisitions,). I just include that for people who don't talk in acronym language.

    Don't know what was said but I like the Queen's hat. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8NgTt8ZWBI

  17. greywarshark 17
    7 July 2019 at 8:25 pm

    Scots feeling sick from being shafted by sick English hard-toffee-nosed toffs.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/jul/06/top-tory-warns-johnson-no-deal-brexit-would-be-gift-to-snp

    Scottish secretary warns Johnson: no-deal Brexit could split UK

    David Mundell says Nicola Sturgeon would use October exit to push for independence

  18. greywarshark 18
    7 July 2019 at 8:55 pm

    They're talking in the UK about trying to get May's November? agreement through as things get worse with the Conservatives so screwed up they can't find a suitable leader for their Party, never mind someone suitable to lead the country. The people in prominence seem oblivious to their responsibilities to the people, and the Irish agreements could fizzle away; the Brits seem to be like those who were irresponsible for the Potato Famine there. What a pigsmuddle, pigs are relatively clean, despite their brown noses, compared to the UK. Should we start organising food parcels to the people as in WW2?

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jul/06/kinnock-says-corbyn-should-order-labour-to-back-may-brexit-deal

    Stephen Kinnock spells out the bottom line – no time for wishing-and-hoping and standing on soapboxes.

    6 July 2019 In a move that further exposes bitter divisions between Labour MPs over Brexit, Stephen Kinnock says supporting the withdrawal agreement bill (WAB) is now the only realistic way out of the impasse for those who want to leave with a deal, while offering hope to those supporting another referendum….

    Kinnock, the MP for Aberavon, says that with a Boris Johnson premiership looking increasingly likely, the country is “staring down the barrel” of a no-deal exit, which would harm fragile communities, compromise national security and endanger the Irish peace process.

    He argues that because MPs have effectively run out of parliamentary options to prevent no deal, it is time for Labour to face reality and for Corbyn to order his MPs to get an admittedly imperfect but far from disastrous Brexit agreement through, in the national interest. The alternative, he warns, could be a general election before Brexit has been delivered that would be just as damaging to Labour as it would be to the Tories, and a gift to “single issue” parties including Nigel Farage’s Brexit party.

    “The WAB is far from ideal. Yet because of concessions to demands made by Labour during cross-party talks it does provide the only feasible means of preventing no deal,” Kinnock says.

    There seems to be a confusion between examining the suggestions and the basic situation, and whether the suggested move is to benefit the MP's electorate and its steel works. It is a pity that there is no ability to actually look at the scenarios that exist and choose the least hurtful one. Could we expect in supposed democracies that there would be set ways of making decisions where there are cross-arguments tripping up reasoned thinking??

  19. joe90 19
    7 July 2019 at 8:58 pm

    Horse racing pundit, broadcaster and journalist John McCririck has passed away. A quintessentially English eccentric and all round loon, McCririck was as funny AF and always worth the watch.

    https://twitter.com/CorneliusRacing/status/1147082414738595846

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/john-mccririck-dead-horse-racing-celebrity-big-brother-died-dies-tv-a8989541.html

  20. greywarshark 20
    7 July 2019 at 9:05 pm

    Will Hutton at The Guardian considers that Labour has temporised for so long over Brexit and 'What to do? – Hold the line!' that tempus fugit has almost past the finishing line.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jul/07/labour-remainers-must-seize-control

    7 July 2019

    By refusing to take up arms, the Labour party has colluded with the Brexit right, created the opening for the Lib Dems and Greens and thus permitted the emergence of a new multi-party system. If Labour continues to temporise, the first past the post electoral system will fell it. The Lib Dems, unapologetic Remainers who are beginning to recognise that their Keynesian tradition offers better policies for the times than soft Thatcherism, have the opportunity to become the new anchor of British progressive politics – strengthened, if they are sufficiently strategic, by working closely with the Greens.

    • mac1 21.1
      7 July 2019 at 10:41 pm

      Obviously never taught by nuns. As I was. Never questioned the habit of the habit then. Why now?

  22. Jenny - How to Get there? 22
    7 July 2019 at 9:56 pm

    Crimes people wouldn't commit if it wasn't their job.

    Nothing personal, just business. Makes it so much easier for normal people to commit the worst crimes possibleImage may contain: 1 personssible

    • Jenny - How to Get there? 22.1
      7 July 2019 at 10:17 pm

      To the above crimes I would add climatacide.

      It's just a job.

      We know coal is bad for the climate but our jobs are at stake here.

      We all have mortgages to pay.

      If we didn't do it someone else would.

      I know people are dying, but that’s somewhere else, not here.

      I'm really with you Greenies, The pay is good, I just need the money. When I have saved enough, I am going to quit this coal mining job, buy a lifestyle block and go completely off grid live a sustainable lifestyle. See if I don't.

  23. marty mars 23
    7 July 2019 at 10:41 pm

    sorry – I know the buzz is planting trees and I'm into that AND we must chopping them down.

    The catastrophic loss of another fifth of Brazil’s rainforest could happen within one generation. It’s happened before. It’s happening now.

    https://theintercept.com/2019/07/06/brazil-amazon-rainforest-indigenous-conservation-agribusiness-ranching/

  24. Pat 24
    8 July 2019 at 12:38 am

    "Mizutori said the time for such arguments had ran out. “We talk about a climate emergency and a climate crisis, but if we cannot confront this [issue of adapting to the effects] we will not survive,” she told the Guardian. “We need to look at the risks of not investing in resilience.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/jul/07/one-climate-crisis-disaster-happening-every-week-un-warns