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Open mike 08/07/2019

Written By: - Date published: 7:00 am, July 8th, 2019 - 120 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

120 comments on “Open mike 08/07/2019 ”

  1. Sanctuary 1

    An interesting short video from Novara Media which starkly lays out how class riddled the UK is… (And the sassy Ash Sarkar… *sigh*)

    • johnm 1.1

      The Tories always hold the view that the state is an apparatus for the protection of the swag of the property owners … Christ drove the money changers out of the temple, but you inscribe their title deed on the altar cloth.

      There is only one hope for mankind – and that is democratic Socialism.

      “That is why no amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party that inflicted those bitter experiences on me. So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin. They condemned millions of first-class people to semi-starvation. Now the Tories are pouring out money in propaganda of all sorts and are hoping by this organised sustained mass suggestion to eradicate from our minds all memory of what we went through. But, I warn you young men and women, do not listen to what they are saying now. Do not listen to the seductions of Lord Woolton. He is a very good salesman. If you are selling shoddy stuff you have to be a good salesman. But I warn you they have not changed, or if they have they are slightly worse than they were.”

      Quotes fron Aneurin Bevan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aneurin_Bevan

      • Bewildered 1.1.1

        So your suggesting and imposed ideaology their Ed, democracy as long as it socialism, yep that will work Just like Hong Kong and Russian democracy, you can vote as long as you vote how you are told

      • bewildered 1.1.2

        This guy was around in the 50 60s unfortunately not the 70s to see what the glories of socialism inflicted on the Uk His thinking and experiences was 19th early 20th century Britain and so are his solutions, hardly relevant today based on old world problems with old world solutions, not to mention they ended up in abject failure with Britain pretty rooted by 1970 and only saved by Maggie Thatcher liberal conservatism and a lot smarter Tory party than they have masquerading as such today, albeit still better than the alternative crazy Corbynestas Party

        • KJT 1.1.2.1

          Do you even live on the same planet.

          Thatcher destroyed Britain.

          They are unlikely to ever, recover.

          • bewildered 1.1.2.1.1

            Beg to disagree after living in Britain for many years, for all Britain is ;now it’s streets ahead of the dour, strike ridden closed for business 1970s, as is nz to that point Your logic falls over by not factoring in what Britain or nz would be today if it carried on the same path it was on, not contrasting some rose tinted view of what life use to be like

            • KJT 1.1.2.1.1.1

              I was there in New Zealand in the 70's. A much better place, in many ways, than New Zealand, now.

              Unless you think poverty, homelessness, beggars on the streets and every family having to work at least two jobs, is an improvement.

              • bewildered

                Still avoiding the question KJT , it is not so much your nostalgic view of 1970s Nz ( I am sure it was nice albeit boring and very little choice of anything) or now what happens on the boundaries of Nz but more so where nz would be if we carried on with same policy setting once Britain decided we were not their farm and would no longer fund our lifestyle

                • KJT

                  Interesting right wing propaganda spin, but wrong.

                  Much of our "lifestyle" was funded by internal production.

                  It could be argued that no longer having to produce commodities, to fund importing shoddy British manufactured goods, sound familiar, would have improved our lifestyle. But we will never know, as Neo -liberal Governments not only changed the bath water, which needed doing, but they also threw out the baby, the bath, and sold the house.

          • johnm 1.1.2.1.2

            100%KJT She was an ignorant bigoted wrecker.

          • johnm 1.1.2.1.3

        • Gabby 1.1.2.2

          Why you blaming socialism for the blundering incompetence of pommie management beewee?

    • Morrissey 1.2

      Ash Sarkar is "sassy", you say. If that word now means "cowardly, craven, ready to recycle vicious government lies", then you are correct.

      On the other hand, if the meaning of the word remains what it has always meant, then your descriptor for her is utterly inappropriate.

      Ostensibly ‘alternative’ Novara Media’s Ash Sarkar – who has published numerous opinion pieces in the Guardian and Independent, and who is a favoured guest on flagship BBC shows like Daily Politics, Question Time, the Andrew Marr Show and Newsnight – tweeted:

      ‘Just sayin’ it’s possible to think that Julian Assange is a definite creep, a probable rapist, a conspiracist whackjob *and* that his arrest has incredibly worrying implications for the treatment of those who blow the whistle on gross abuses of state power.’

      Sarkar revealed the depth of her knowledge when she wrote:

      ‘His arrest today came *after* the investigations into rape and the Swedish arrest warrant were dropped.

      ‘That doesn’t mean he’s innocent of those charges.’

      Anyone who knows anything about Assange knows that he has never been charged. But Sarkar’s damning comments on a leading truth-teller facing the wrath of the US state, play extremely well with the ‘mainstream’ gatekeepers selecting BBC guests and Guardian contributors. Sarkar deleted the tweet smearing Assange, not because she regretted her appalling comments, but because ‘ugly stuff defending sexual assault itself has been turning up in my work inbox’ from ‘men’.

      https://www.newcoldwar.org/assange-arrest-part-2-a-definite-creep-a-probable-rapist/

      https://novaramedia.com/2019/04/15/julian-assange-and-the-problem-of-solidarity/

      • Psycho Milt 1.2.1

        ‘Just sayin’ it’s possible to think that Julian Assange is a definite creep, a probable rapist, a conspiracist whackjob *and* that his arrest has incredibly worrying implications for the treatment of those who blow the whistle on gross abuses of state power.’

        That statement is clearly and objectively true, so it's not obvious where you're drawing the descriptors "cowardly, craven and vicious" from, other than unsavory corners of your own id.

        • Morrissey 1.2.1.1

          The bullshit about him being a creep, a rapist and a whackjob should be a clue as to her cowardice and her dishonesty.

          • Psycho Milt 1.2.1.1.1

            It's a clue that she may not agree with Morrissey on the subject, nothing more. "Disagrees with Morrissey" is not a synonym for "cowardice" or "dishonesty."

            • Morrissey 1.2.1.1.1.1

              "Disagrees with Morrissey" is not a synonym for "cowardice" or "dishonesty."

              That's true, Milt. What makes her a liar and a coward is not that she might disagree with me, or with Julian Assange himself. What makes her a coward and a liar is her recycling of vicious government-sponsored lies about Julian Assange.

              • "Vicious government-sponsored lies" is your opinion, and you're calling her a coward and liar because she may (it's not clear from the tweet) disagree with that opinion.

                It helps if you don't start from the position that your opinions are objective facts – many logic fails can be avoided by that one simple technique.

                • Morrissey

                  "Vicious government-sponsored lies" is your opinion,

                  It's a reasoned opinion; unlike Sarkar with her brutal recycling of smears she's read in the Grauniad and heard on British State/Murdoch broadcasting, I actually care about the truthfulness and the effect of my words.

                  and you're calling her a coward and liar because she may (it's not clear from the tweet) disagree with that opinion.

                  If she disagrees with it—which, considering she otherwise presents as an intelligent and critical thinker, she no doubt does—then why did she repeat those disgusting smears? The only possible reason, presuming that she is a rational person who is skeptical of the British government's machinations, is that she was afraid of stating outright what the facts of the matter are, i.e., that Assange is in captivity because he is indeed a journalist who exposed massive crimes by the institutions trying to destroy him.

                  • If you did actually care about the truthfulness and effectiveness of your words, you wouldn't continually present your personal opinions (eg "brutal recycling of smears", "disgusting smears") as facts.

                    • Morrissey

                      Okay, she recycled the smears in a caring fashion, and the smears were actually quite classy, and as unimpeachable and rigorous as that Christchurch police case against Peter Ellis.

                      Still leaves her looking rather cowardly, however.

        • Gabby 1.2.1.2

          Morpissey scorns the truth when it clashes with his knowledge of how things should be.

          • Morrissey 1.2.1.2.1

            What "truth" are you talking about Gobby? Are you going to start raving about his cat now?

  2. Dennis Frank 2

    "President Trump’s approval rating has risen to the highest point of his presidency" according to the latest ABC News / Washinton Post poll – but the polling finished July 1st, so it doesn't endorse his claim that the American revolutionary army took over airports in 1775 (134 years before the first airport was built).

    "Trump has slipped up in making historical references before. He referred to Frederick Douglass during a 2017 Black History Month event as if he were still alive, even though the famed abolitionist died in 1895. He also claimed that President Andrew Jackson was angry about "what was happening" with the Civil War, although Jackson died 16 years before the war began." https://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-trump-revolutionary-war-airport-memes-20190705-story.html

    He could be competing for an honorary degree in historical revisionism, eh? Historical revisionists are normally leftist academics, of the anti-imperial persuasion, so pitching for their vote at the military rally on July 4th could be seen as a recruiting move to get more patriots on board.

    And "the survey shows a clear majority of Americans continue to oppose impeachment proceedings. The new poll finds 59 percent of Americans saying the House should not begin such proceedings".

    • Morrissey 2.1

      Dennis, do you think his "base"—whatever that actually is—cares or even understands that he spouted that ridiculous anachronism? After all, many of them think the world is just a tad over 6,000 years old, and that the moon landing was a hoax.

      • Dennis Frank 2.1.1

        Yeah Morrisey, much of his base is permanently out to lunch. Those that are true conservatives yet educated and erudite are always the rightists with the most leverage on the right of centre. The ones you refer to are vastly greater in number in the USA, yet they are merely voters.

        The ones to watch are the opinion leaders in the establishment (traditionally more right than left, yet a mix). Such people support Trump when he's useful, but are likely to withdraw that support when he becomes a liability.

        • Morrissey 2.1.1.1

          How much more outrageous do you think he might get, Dennis?

          • Dennis Frank 2.1.1.1.1

            I've done some background reading on the guy to ascertain his potential for a second term. His style has always been outrageous – deliberately so. The question of mental illness is the hinge. We can't predict how that may trend. Others may be better placed than me to opine on trajectories of dementia…

  3. Geek elections ……… 🙁 🙁 but predicatable! (As were the Indian elections for that matter).

    • oops! the case of the missing 'r'

      I'm thinking come 2020, the Left will scrape/glide in for a second term, but that voter turn out will remain abysmal, and we'll still be pontificating as to why that is whilst preparing for a 2023 defeat, still unable to actually get our shit together.

      This morning's Nine2Noon/from the Right, and from the Left (with Mills rather than the slightly-less-from-the-Right Williams) was QI. Some valid points "On Both Sides, On BOTH sides….. tremendous, phenomenal, etc).

      Bloody shame Jonathan Boston's team came up with a few ideas AFTER the election, alongside a few others that have been banging their heads against brick walls for the past few years. Although I understand why they couldn't. Although we could have had another one of those committee things, perhaps given it the acronym CAMEL and staffed it with a load of Horse riders fresh from a UK fox hunt, and parachuted in for the task. They could even give us a few more linguistic platitudes for the pollywantacracker and departmental headhoncho to spout

      And @ Dennis Frank (above or below – can't be fucked looking which right now), although you might be correct in suggesting targeting the 'middle' to win elections is the way to go, we shouldn't be pretending we'll solve issues and the plight of those at the edges, or indeed those who've given up on participating in our democracy as long as we do.

      • Dennis Frank 3.1.1

        we shouldn't be pretending we'll solve issues and the plight of those at the edges, or indeed those who've given up on participating in our democracy as long as we do

        It's an important point. I'd prefer you to view it with more optimism. smiley

        Whereas most centrists are simply there by default (unable to identify with left or right) a portion are principled and either opinion leaders or political activists. That is to say, they wield more influence as a group than their numbers suggest. Why? Because transcending polarity is both sophisticated thinking and a sign of intelligence.

        Need it defeat ethics or conscience? Of course not! It's readily deployable alongside both, as a political stance. I'm not even slightly interested in resiling from support of GP policies, for instance. Doesn't mean to say I'm sufficiently stupid to insist they are implemented in coalition govt. All I ask is for the GP leadership to demonstrate a little more expertise…

      • Andre 3.1.2

        oops! the case of the missing 'r'

        It's also quite interesting pondering exactly what might be "predicatable" from that election. Unless there's also an extra "a".

        • OnceWasTim 3.1.2.1

          True 🙂

          I'll get up a little later tomorrow

          • In Vino 3.1.2.1.1

            Actually. I think it about time the geeks did have an election to nominate their leader and spokesperson.. Note the gender-neutral thing. Mankind – sorry – Personkind has a long way to go in achieving the ideal nomenclature.

  4. Sacha 4

    Illustrating the impact of the new disability family care funding policy: https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12247412

    Christchurch woman Gillian Kney, 73, who has arthritis and looks after her husband Franz, 78, who has Parkinson's disease and dementia, said being paid to care for Franz would make a huge difference.

    "It would improve our standard of living. It would mean I didn't have to call on my daughter all the time, and she has a young family and owns a business and works six days a week, and she does a lot of work for us and I wish I could reciprocate in some way.

    "The biggest bugbear of all is transport. At this point we don't have enough for taxis."

    • Rosemary McDonald 5.1

      If I had to choose one advocate to get the ear of the Current Mob in order to effect a change in attitude towards poverty it would be Susan St. John from CPAG.

      I'd have her on speed dial if I were the PM and truly desired Wellbeing for my people.

    • greywarshark 5.2

      A cheap shot but it isn't entirely wrong – perhaps not a surplus but a sir-plus. As most of the triumph for the surplus is likely to come from males, and most of the angst about lack of money is likely with females.

  5. Rosemary McDonald 6

    On Natrad this morning was an interview with advocate Jane Carrigan who has been supporting Diane Moody and her significantly learning disabled son Shane Chamberlain through a couple of legal actions.
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018703096/disability-care-funding-changes-give-false-hope-family-carers
    Predictably, they are not impressed that yesterday's announcement regarding the much fought for fix of the stinking mess left by the Previous Incumbents of disability support services provided by family carers does not include an overhaul of the Needs Assessment process.

    The Appeal Court judges had this to say…

    Postscript[90]

    We make two additional points. First, we note that this is the third occasion on which a dispute between the Ministry of Health and parents who care for disabled adult children has reached this Court. We hope that in the future parties to disputes over the nature and extent of funding eligibility are able to settle their differences without litigation.

    Second, we have referred to our unease, which is shared by Palmer J, about the complexity of the statutory instruments governing funding eligibility for disability support services. They verge on the impenetrable, especially for a lay person, and have not been revised or updated to take into account the significant change brought about by pt 4A. We hope that the Ministry is able to find an effective means of streamlining the regime, thereby rendering it accessible for the people who need it most and those who care for them.

    http://img.scoop.co.nz/media/pdfs/1802/ChamberlainvMinisterofHealth.pdf

    Some of us felt more than a little better that these august and intelligent fellows struggled to understand a system that has blighted the existence of disabled Kiwis and their families.

    To say that some of us have a less than constructive relationship with our NASC (Needs Assessment and Service Coordination) office would be merely hinting at the frustration many of us have encountered.

    Both Peter and myself have got off the phone from our NASC in tears.

    • greywarshark 6.1

      The news reports this morning indicate that the agencies that government contracts out to, to implement its policies have considerable licence to interpret the law which can take its actions beyond the intention of the law, and that where the country is split between numerous contractors, there will be different approaches and judgments made about what entitlements caretakers are allocated.

      That this happens to carers of disabled people was revealed while talking about the funding difficulties that carers are having in this mornings news.

      This is one of the unchallengeable disadvantages of government not running systems directly, all this opening up to private operators in matters that relate to people's lives, only lengthens the chain of responsibility and makes it difficult to implement policies appropriately and with the balance of efficiency for cost and effectiveness of kindly and practical help that is justified by need, showing humanity.

      I don't see agencies at a distance from government, doing a better job than Government Direct. That is a term I would expect to hear more about as a citizen and a voter!

      Parents struggling to look after disabled family members say changes announced by the government on Sunday mean very little and just gives false hope.

      https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018703097/work-ongoing-to-change-disability-support-issues-genter
      The complex assessment system that determines the hours per week that the family carer works has not been changed, and this has been heavily criticised by those caring for family members.
      Associate Health Minister Julie Anne Genter joins us with her response.

      • Rosemary McDonald 6.1.1

        "…of kindly and practical help that is justified by need, showing humanity. "

        Some of us are way past the point of expecting humanity from our NASC. We'd be positively orgasmic if they gave even the slightest hint that they had a working knowledge of the different types of impairment and the appropriate type of hands on care required to meet an individual's core needs.

        If any of them had ever asked "How can we help you?" I think we might have died of shock.

        (I write in the past tense because the relationship between Peter and myself and our NASC has broken down beyond recovery.

        Just as well they're not actually having to fund any care for him.)

        • greywarshark 6.1.1.1

          I hope for brighter days for you soon Rosemary.

          I say a little prayer for you coming from Aretha Franklin.

  6. Gosman 7

    The Greek election result highlight a real problem for those supporting a more radical leftist solution to politics. Populist Left wing parties tend to disappoint and fail to deliver the promised changes compared to populist right wing parties.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jul/07/greeks-choose-between-beach-and-ballot-in-first-post-debt-bailout-poll

    • Dennis Frank 7.1

      The winner: "Mitsotakis, a reformist ex-banker who has been at pains to modernise and revamp one of Europe’s most conservative parties since being elevated to its helm in January 2016. “Credit has to go to him and his strategy of opening up and moving the party towards the centre,” said Haris Theocharis, a candidate MP and former head of public revenues."

      Yet more proof that centrism is the key to success. Will the slow learners in the GP leadership cabal get it this time? Unlikely.

      • KJT 7.1.1

        Total Bollocks.

        Cleaving to the centre, is how the US democrats left a big hole of disappointed voters, for Trump and the repubs, to drive a horse and cart through.

        And, will be the reason why, Labour may lose in 2020.

        Even Bridges is pretending to be more left wing to get back power.

        BTW. The Greens are hardly radical left. Current social policies are about as "left" as Holyoaks, unfortunately!

        • Dennis Frank 7.1.1.1

          You're in denial. Wanting sensible/intelligent leftist policies ought not handicap a party into marginalisation. People can walk & chew gum simultaneously, and it's up to politicians to demonstrate equivalent finesse.

          The point is that success comes from learning what actually works in the real world. The lesson from how the radical left handled power in Greece does need to be learned. The lesson from Greek voters!

          • KJT 7.1.1.1.1

            What happened" in the real world" was the Democratic party in the USA, failed in achieving the "left wing" policies of looking after people, their voters wanted, so they got Trump.

            THAT, is the real world!

    • Bearded Git 7.2

      39.7 versus 31.5 is not a landslide as the article says…..it is only the dumb Greek system that awards a large number of bonus seats to the largedt polling party that makes it so.

    • AB 7.3

      "Populist Left wing parties tend to disappoint and fail to deliver the promised changes" As a sort of 'Gosman Generalisation' I can accept that. Of course the 'Gosman Generalisation' is a bad faith generalisation, so it deliberately leaves out what may cause that failure to deliver – especially the pervasively hostile operating environment that even moderate left-wing governments face.

      But even accepting the statement at face value – it doesn't follow that it "highlight[s] a real problem for those supporting more radical leftist solutions". Because those failures to deliver aren't caused by the radicalism, they are caused by the strength of the opposing forces. And those forces will oppose any change, timid or radical, it doesn't matter. The best response therefore may be even greater radicalism, not less.

      • Gosman 7.3.1

        No, it highlights you need a better strategy to deal with the opposing forces if you want to get radical left wing policies implemented. What won't help is crying that it ain't fair that people are opposing you in trying to implement your left wing agenda.

    • swordfish 7.4

      The Greek Election Result highlights:
      Majority Bonus System + fragmentation of the Left

      In terms of popular support … (for all Parties receiving over 1% of vote):

      Broad Left (Syriza, KINAL (MfC), Communist, MeRA25, Course of Freedom) = 49.9%

      Broad Right (ND, Greek Solution, Golden Dawn) = 46.4%

      Or … excluding those Parties that failed to make the Threshold:

      Broad Left: 48.4%

      Broad Right: 43.4%

      • Gosman 7.4.1

        Who is likely to be in power?

      • Bearded Git 7.4.2

        mmm thank you Swordfish….belies the stupid media headlines….I'm guessing the ridiculous 50 bonus seats for the biggest party will give the Right power?

    • Fireblade 7.5

      Meanwhile…

      The New Zealand election result highlight a real problem for those supporting a more radical right solution to politics. Populist right wing parties tend to disappoint and fail to deliver the promised changes compared to populist left wing parties.

  7. greywarshark 8

    . In it, she explores meat grown in labs from cultured animal cells, crop weeding robots that remove the need for pesticides and vertical indoor farms where vegetables are grown with neither sun nor soil.

    Author and Professor of investigative journalism and science writing at Vanderbilt University Amanda Little has spent four years travelling around the United States and the world researching what people, business and governments are doing to ensure humanity can be fed sustainably and equitably. Her book is called The Fate of Food: What We'll Eat in a Bigger, Hotter, Smarter World.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon

  8. lprent 9

    Time for work after what seems like a weekend (something I ate).

    I think I sorted the search out a bit. Was running two differing copies of the search tool at startup and which one got grabbed the port at startup was a matter of luck. One could read the database. The other could not.

    • Dennis Frank 9.1

      Good sleuthing. I hope the same gremlin grabs a hold of the voting portal when they finally get around to developing it, and randomises the results. Nobody would ever know – they'd just marvel at how biodiversity had suddenly become evident in politics. We need that, to loosen the strangle-hold of mainstreamers.

    • Kevin 9.2

      Nice work.yes

  9. McFlock 10

    Article on the Intercept that argues immigration/asylum-seeking isn't a massive problem at even the levels that make right-wingers crap their pants. And efforts to prevent it kill people. Lots of people.

    Yes, it requires planning and support, but it's just not enough to screw up an economy or suddenly disrupt a culture.

    • greywarshark 10.1

      We can work it out – if we put our minds, our brains, our hearts to it. I'm thinking in music this morning.

      We can work it out. Life is very short and there is no time for fussing and fighting my friend.

    • KJT 10.2

      15 million Australian and I forget how many millions of Indonesian, climate refugees heading for New Zealand, "won't be a problem"?

      • McFlock 10.2.1

        That's the sort of math that said we'd all be dead from ebola by now because of the trends in the first couple of months of the 2014 outbreak.

        It's coupled with the sort of misquoting that makes one wonder how carefully the link was read.

        • KJT 10.2.1.1

          Come on. Australian agriculture is already marginal. Where do you think they are going to go, if they are starving and have heat waves that kill people.

          • McFlock 10.2.1.1.1

            Most will stay and fight each other.

            Others will go for Europe or the US.

            Some will try to fly here. And flights are controllable at point of origin.

            As for the rest, the Tasman is a big moat.

  10. soddenleaf 11

    They invaded our island land, warring tribes disunited stood no chance. The tribes that accept Roman rule were assimilated, those that did not we're killed and sold into slavery. Eventually they left, Britian united, kept the roads, laws, the dispossession however, the violence was forgotten, we moved on.

    Deep in the culture of Europeans is understood both the seizure and the oppression that has been inflicted on Maori. Eventually Maori will too. Average Briton, is no longer a Briton pre Roman invasion; in the mix of Picks, there are Norman, Viking, Italian, etc, and it didn't stop.

    You see there is no such thing as White race, it's a nonsense, as someone once pointed out to me, were actually have more colours than any other group, ranging from white, pink, med brown, Indian brown. And it's the same with Maori, they are becoming more coloured. Racism is just the nonsense boil idiots use to get special pleadings. Like some Christians who want to tell non Christians and nonagreeing Christians to obey govt edicts that are sourced solely from their specific readings…

    It's a fact that however it was going to happen, land would have been subdivided to utilize the European farming methods. There were never enough Maori to convert all that land. Sure in some cases tribes were treated harsher, it's wrong but nothing Europeans hadn't done to each other, or Maori wouldn't have. Let's just consider the absurdity, that the Europeans turned round and left when asked, they weren't, as tribes realised the power they could get over each other and embraced muskets, etc.

    So what is exactly the point of discussing race? To remind us all that racists come from all corners, talk nonsense and want redress for stuff that was going happen inevitably from the invaders technology, and had nothing to do with race, except of course the human one. Sort it out, fair deal, move on.

    The reality is as we age as a population, as we grow closer both digitally and culturally, we will harvest a imbalances of inequality, and the ease to which racists can advantage their weaken egos will be expose to be a expense to us all and our future. Sure, if a young poor person start vulgarly ranting about how racist a stranger is, it's not the stranger whose being racist. Sure, it's sad how poor managers are, that they don't hire because of their weaken egos, but really shareholder power is not what it used to be, fix the class system it's far more of a problem.

    I don't walk in your shoes, you dont want to, but I don't see how me trying helps you move on, just how we get locked in smelly reeking shoes that actually we all can easily find greviences to feed too. Talking about racism helps you be less racist,and me less, great. But actually the program last night just made racism more prominent. It's not my problem the Romans destroyed Druidism, or robbed my ancestors to their ties to the land, it's not my problem that my invader ancesters and my dispossessed ancestor did stuff to each other. And similarly for some mixed Maori European to demand redress, sure recent greviences that have merit, but fair dealing means we move on together. And so what if we embracesome Maori practices, we're they ever just Maori, weren't they always human,not restricted by race.

    look I don't know, who cares, seek the positive in other's.

    • mauī 11.1

      I find it funny you say you don't define people by race and then next minute go on to defining people by income and class. Have to be a tory!

      It's also great having such a strong anti-racist as yourself on here. Telling other races to "get over it" and to for us all to "become one people". Have you considered a career in race relations? 🙂 You would last all of about 5 seconds!

  11. greywarshark 12

    This morning's news included examples of government agencies at arms length from the Ministry like the Transport Authority buying more expensive IT from Texas than from two smaller NZ companies which would have liked to had real opportunity to tender, and felt they could meet the requirements at a reasonable cost. (NZ losing out on VA in building our enterprise in the 21st century.)

    Obese patients have to be held in Manukau hospital instead of going to a private partner for post-operative care. The lack of action by National on the food front, to effect a decline in unhealthy food has not helped, with more interest in supporting fast-food businesses, often overseas companies. And the private partners are not wishing to reallocate profit to the more expensive care of the obese, which are more numerous in Manukau than elsewhere, involving infrastructure changes, wider doors, stronger floors, stronger lifting machinery.

  12. marty mars 14

    So many around, like unexploded bombs, ready to go off.

    Almost 20 historic landfill sites in the Tasman district are at risk of being exposed by storm surges and sea level rise.

    Information from local councils show there are 20 closed landfills across Nelson and Tasman, 18 of which are located on the coastline or near rivers and estuaries.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/113925019/historic-landfill-sites-across-nelson-tasman-at-risk-of-sea-level-rise

    Perhaps it may be better to create a Ministry of Mitigation – they could do some work BEFORE disasters happen – cos they are going to happen.

    • Dennis Frank 14.1

      Good thinking, I'll support that. Amazing how reluctant politicians are when it comes to shifting from ambulance at the bottom of the cliff. Fence at the top isn't hard.

    • RedLogix 14.2

      The mining industry is in the early stages of recognising old landfills as an excellent resource. The technologies are sufficiently developed to make proof of concept and pilot plants a viable proposition.

      Early projects would need govt development funding and probably operational subsidies, but there are companies that would be interested in giving it a go.

      • greywarshark 14.2.1

        What good ideas. A Ministry of Mitigation would have a clear direction that could not be argued with and result in a Minister being driven out of office as … whatever negative adjective thrown at him/her.

        The Ministry would have its place to stand and be expected to act according to its given mission. Let's go for having one.

      • Robert Guyton 14.2.2

        I wonder how they might mine without releasing greenhouse gases and toxic leachates.

        • greywarshark 14.2.2.1

          That would be a good topic to start on!
          Seeing the Ministry's job would be to examine and do research and produce results which would have to be published in full, a lot of the prevarication of the nostalgic wishful thinkers would be breached. And it would be done in-government-house not contracted out! And there would be no commercial sensitivity BS either.

          That would be what I'd expect anyway.

      • marty mars 14.2.3

        I can't quite imagine how that works – do they just dig it up and drag what they need out of what they process. Hardly seems worth it. Is there something else they do – chucking it down a deep mine shaft could be a goer.

        • RedLogix 14.2.3.1

          Yes something like that. There are such things as ore sorters that are already being used to separate out the metals and plastics. Then I'd imagine you'd go to a wet process of some sort to detox the heavy metals, then filter and convey the resulting damp output to a biological process of some kind.

          Maybe convey it up vertically 50m or so out of the reach of sea level, then plant with reed beds or other species known to be good at absorbing any residual metals. There has been a lot of interesting research already done.

          While perfect 100% elimination is probably not economically feasible, reducing the hazard by several orders of magnitude (a 99% reduction) should be doable. The economics would depend a lot on how much valuable metals and material can be recovered at the first step.

  13. greywarshark 15

    Melzer has recently transformed the debate around 2019 Nobel Peace Prize Nominee Julian Assange’s situation by formally finding that Assange is a victim of state-sponsored (and publicly perpetuated) psychological torture.

    https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2019/07/08/guest-blog-suzie-dawson-not-in-my-name-academics-publicly-attacking-un-torture-rapporteur/

    Suzie Dawson has tested the sincerity of Assange's attackers.

    • Morrissey 15.1

      His state-sponsored persecution and torture have elicited elicited expressions of amusement and contempt from some "liberals" in New Zealand…..

      ZOE FERGUSON: It’s Nelson Mandela’s birthday!
      NOELLE McCARTHY: Yes it I-I-I-I-I-IS!
      ZOE FERGUSON: And he shares his birthday with Hunter S. Thompson and Vin Diesel!
      CHRIS TROTTER: [indulgently] Ho ho ho ho!
      NOELLE McCARTHY: Well happy BIRTHDAY to Madiba!

      …..[General murmurings of assent.]…..

      NOELLE McCARTHY: And there’s a new movie out about Julian Assange?
      ZOE FERGUSON: Yes, The Fifth Estate. It stars Benedict Cumberpatch!
      NOELLE McCARTHY: And how’s his Australian accent?
      ZOE FERGUSON: Actually, it’s not bad! Here, have a listen….

      A short clip plays, of Benedict Cumberpatch as Assange saying: “Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. But if you give him a mask, he will tell you the truth.

      …..[Short but significant silence in the studio.]

      NOELLE McCARTHY: That wasn’t too bad, actually.
      CHRIS TROTTER: Of course, a top rate actor like Benedict Cumberpatch was always going to be able to manage an Aussie accent.
      LISA SCOTT: Mmmmm, mmmmm.
      NOELLE McCARTHY: Yes indeed.
      ZOE FERGUSON: Of course Assange says the movie is “propaganda and lies”. He he he!
      LISA SCOTT: Ha ha ha ha ha!
      NOELLE McCARTHY: Ha ha ha ha ha!
      CHRIS TROTTER: Ho ho ho ho ho! He WOULD! Ho ho ho ho!

      …..[Awkward silence]….

      https://morrisseybreen.blogspot.com/2018/01/chris-trotter-reckons-zimmerman-jury.html

      It's not only wishy-washy "liberals" who are amused at Assange's plight. Our most infamous right wing fashionista and a brutal old cop have rarely found anything so funny as the thought of a political dissenter suffering….

      JIM MORA: I like pockets, but there was a trend away from pockets, wasn’t there, and for a while you couldn’t buy a shirt with a pocket in it.
      DENISE L’ESTRANGE-CORBET: I LIKE pockets!
      MORA: Yep. I like pockets.
      DENISE L’ESTRANGE-CORBET: I think they’ve been treated quite badly, pockets.
      GRAHAM BELL: Modern shirts, you’ve got nowhere to put your pens.

      ….[A long pause, then on to the next topic. They maintain the same light-hearted tone, but this time it’s for something altogether more serious. Like fearful, obedient commissars in Maoist China, these people know the correct stance to take towards an officially designated target]….

      JIM MORA: Now, Julian Assange on the catwalk.
      DENISE L’ESTRANGE-CORBET: [highly amused] Yes!
      MORA: How’s he going to manage this?
      ZARA POTTS: Well, it hasn’t stopped him, his asylum claim hasn’t stopped him from doing all sorts of things. Even last week he opened rapper MIA’s New York concert with a ten minute Skype chat, so he’s pretty busy.
      DENISE L’ESTRANGE-CORBET: I thought he couldn’t leave though.
      ZARA POTTS: He does it all on his computer.
      DENISE L’ESTRANGE-CORBET: Oh, right.
      ZARA POTTS: This is Vivienne Westwood’s son Ben, and as part of London Fashion Week, he is going to take the catwalk to Julian Assange in the Ecadorian embassy.
      GRAHAM BELL: [derisive snort] Ha!
      DENISE L’ESTRANGE-CORBET: [querulous tone] Howwwww?
      GRAHAM BELL: Some people will do ANYTHING to get publicity.
      DENISE L’ESTRANGE-CORBET: Ha ha ha ha ha!
      ZARA POTTS: Ha ha ha ha ha! Yes, it’s not because he cuts a particularly dashing figure or wears clothes THAT well. The whole thing is a little bit more political than that. Ben Westwood is saying that he wants Julian Assange in his show so that Assange doesn’t slip into obscurity.
      MORA: There’s not much danger of that though, is there.
      ZARA POTTS: No. He’s wanting to highlight his plight.
      DENISE L’ESTRANGE-CORBET: So he’s going to be modeling the clothes.
      ZARA POTTS: Yes.
      GRAHAM BELL: It’ll be the look for the very OILY character. Hm hm hm hm hm.
      DENISE L’ESTRANGE-CORBET: Yeowww!
      GRAHAM BELL: Hm hm hm hm hm.
      MORA: How do they put a runway into an embassy? It’s basically just a big HOUSE, isn’t it.
      ZARA POTTS: Maybe they’ve got a big hallway. The collection has been influenced by Clint Eastwood’s Western films and also Assange’s “combat beret look”.

      ….[General snickering, snorting and guffawing]….

      ZARA POTTS: And there is also a garment with Julian Assange’s image printed on it. He he he he he!
      DENISE L’ESTRANGE-CORBET: Ha ha ha ha ha!
      GRAHAM BELL: Ho ho ho ho ho! Can’t WAIT!
      MORA: Ha ha ha ha ha!
      ZARA POTTS: The soundtrack is from The Good, The Bad and The Ugly, so that will be something to, uh, see….

      https://morrisseybreen.blogspot.com/2018/01/graham-bell-continues-to-run-amok-on.html

      Chris Trotter, that serious-as-fuck bullfrog and poseur, was driven to imitate Speedy Gonzales as he poured ridicule on the government-designated political target….

      SUSAN BALDACCI: Julian Assange is a little bit paranoid.
      MORA: Oh yes? Hur, hur, hur, hur!
      SUSAN BALDACCI: Yeah, he claims that being holed up in the Ecuadorian embassy, he is deprived of his human right of getting enough sun.
      MORA: Is it a human right to get enough sun?
      SUSAN BALDACCI: That’s what he claims! He claims that being not allowed to leave London is violating his “human rights”.
      MORA: Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!
      LISA SCOTT: Ha ha ha ha ha ha!
      CHRIS TROTTER: Haw haw haw haw haw!
      SUSAN BALDACCI: He thinks he should be allowed out of his Ecuador embassy hideout to sunbathe.
      MORA: He can get out on the balcony, where he gave that speech!
      LISA SCOTT: Yeah! Ha ha ha ha ha!
      CHRIS TROTTER: Yeah! Ha ha ha ha ha! Or get him a sun lamp! THAT’s what he needs!
      LISA SCOTT: Ha ha ha ha ha!
      SUSAN BALDACCI: He he he he he!
      TROTTER: I suspect the ambassador’s just sick of the sight of him! “Are you ever going to LEEEEAAAVE?”
      MORA: Sun lamp! Get him a sun lamp!!!
      LISA SCOTT: Ha ha ha ha ha!
      MORA: Back after the news!

      https://morrisseybreen.blogspot.com/2018/01/an-unusually-inane-and-depraved-edition.html

      • greywarshark 15.1.1

        Morrissey – you have made this point dozens of times. I have realised after reading your notes as to their comments that these people just think that knowing the names of newsmakers and their current travails is a huge achievement. Chris Trotter is on there because to do a good job of understanding NZs present culture, he needs to mingle and listen to the current prattle. And sometimes it's a good change to have a prattle as a break from the dark fog that flows through our history to pool at our door.

        Time for a kit-kat perhaps Morrissey. Do you remember the tv ad where the animal photographer was trying to entice the chimps out, but they only came out of the hide when he was looking the other way. It's no use keeping tabs on the Panel – it is candy floss for tired people, always the same. Keep on with it and you'll get as stale a mind as most listeners. You might find some political funkery from a different angle if you changed seats.

        • Morrissey 15.1.1.1

          Chris Trotter is on there because to do a good job of understanding NZs present culture, he needs to mingle and listen to the current prattle.

          He wasn't "listening to prattle", he was mocking the suffering of a political dissenter.

          It's no use keeping tabs on the Panel – it is candy floss for tired people, always the same.

          Fair point, buddy. I would go crazy if I sat around listening to that all day. I don't, however, listen to it very much at all. I made the grave error this morning of tuning into "Magic Talk" hosted by one Peter Williams. It was so goddamned horrible that I was compelled to dash down a hurried transcript. Keep your eyes peeled!

          I see that I’ve already passed comment on his horror show, by the way….

          https://morrisseybreen.blogspot.com/2019/05/one-of-most-hapless-talk-radio-tragics.html

          https://morrisseybreen.blogspot.com/2018/11/discussion-on-kiwiblog-about-peter.html

          • greywarshark 15.1.1.1.1

            Morrissey I read you because you try to have something to say. I don't want to read your opinion about other talking heads. Blah blah let them go. Can you look stuff up for How to Get There and add something every Sunday that would be useful?

            • Morrissey 15.1.1.1.1.1

              I share your opinion of these talking heads. I decided long ago to make a point of capturing as much of their chatter as I could. Sure it's ephemeral, and most of it is worthless in and of itself, but it's important to understand just how these vacuous people hold so much influence in our society.

              Anyway, most of the time I don't analyze them, I just capture their repulsive conversations and re-present them to the public. I think that Chris "Speedy Gonzales" Trotter, Laughing Lisa Scott, Grouchy Graham Bell, Despicable Denise L'Estrange-Corbet, and all the rest of them do a fine job of hanging themselves. I don't think they should be allowed to escape scrutiny and judgement just because most people never heard, or have forgotten, their hateful performances.

          • Kevin 15.1.1.1.2

            I enjoy your perspective Morrissey. Keep it up.

        • Adrian Thornton 15.1.1.2

          " It's no use keeping tabs on the Panel – it is candy floss for tired people, always the same. Keep on with it and you'll get as stale a mind as most listeners."

          It is also helpful to keep reminding some people and possibly inform others as to some of the terrible views held by many of RNZ regular hosts and guests…it is also helpful to place the news and views provided by RNZ it's rightful context..so keep banging on Morrissey I say..job well done.

  14. Ad 16

    Irony alert:

    Marsden Point Refining is proposing a very large solar power generator to run the plant there.

    It would be 31 hectares, deliver 24 Megawatts, and potentially take our only oil refinery off the grid.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12247521

    Without presuming New Zealand can do without an oil refinery for the imaginable future, and I sure ain't bagging them for trying, but what would it take to make an oil refinery sustainable?

    • Rosemary McDonald 16.1

      Silly idea. The salt air would leave a film on the panels that would require constant cleaning. The salt air would very possibly corrode the panels. 31 hectares is a lot of land and already the refinery is close to the Port in one direction and close to the timber treatment in the other. And Winston wants to expand the port. And then there's a neat wee DOC reserve with part of the Te Araroa trail running through it. And then there's the absolute bestest overnight parking spot for when we're traveling from the FFN back to the Waikato.

    • xanthe 16.2

      "

      what would it take to make an oil refinery sustainable?

      "

      well there are algae that produce oil from sunlight and remove nitrates and nutrients from fresh water in the process.

      one random link to get you sterted

      https://petrowiki.org/Producing_crude_oil_from_algae

    • WeTheBleeple 16.3

      Solar panels. Tech from statoil (already in use) to take the CO2 released from the process rather than venting to the atmosphere. Use the oil products for applications where alternatives are not yet available – the medicines, high tech/high value end; where it's not just burned up for a trip to the dairy.

      That'd be a good start.

      • greywarshark 16.3.1

        And when the oil runs out or down, we have the solar panels still there being useful. Doesn't sound too bad a scheme, pretty good i would say.

  15. greywarshark 17

    Gordon Campbell of Werewolf and Scoop thinks that being aware of commercial reality and seizing an opportunity like Lord of the Rings and other productions has given us a standing that puts us in line for ongoing business for our creatives. This is important for us to take on board. The naive wittering and deep resentment that built up over this matter as unions didn't get an agreement to suit themselves and foolishly allied themselves with an Oz union that would have no friendship for our situation, has not led to a loss to the country and we can be grateful for that. Idealism needs to step forward first, and then cede some of its hopes to pragmatism, and then be of nice wit to see where advantage can be gained in doing a good, clever, honest job and getting leverage wherever is reasonable.

    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL1907/S00024/gordon-campbell-on-the-usual-grumbling-over-screen-subsidies.htm

    Ultimately, we seem to have won this production largely because of the mature film industry infrastructure that New Zealand has built on the back of those previously subsidized productions. For example: we now have the studio sound stages that Scotland currently lacks, highly skilled film crews, expert props-makers, costumers and set-builders, and can boast a world-leading post-production facility. Basically, New Zealand can offer the entire spectrum of services from initial shoots to post-production FX, and none of this would have been possible without the previous generation of tax breaks and production grants. As the World of Locations industry website points out, those prior productions also committed to substantial quotas of key local personnel, tourism campaigns and skills and talent development programmes for emerging local crew.

  16. ianmac 18

    The onslaught against Pharmac is a bit disturbing. Garner for one echoes the claim that NZ is in the Third World in Cancer treatment. This is patently un true. Facts are better than rabid slurs. This what some in NZ hold up as a gold standard. The UK Cancer Drugs Fund.

    But when the UK’s Royal Society of Medicine analysed five years of national news reports last year it found they were overwhelmingly approving of the Cancer Drugs Fund.

    "Access at any cost was a clear totem around which the pro-Fund media based its coverage. The views of experts who pointed out the intrinsic unfairness of the Fund – or the lack of efficacy of many of the drugs – seem to have counted for little against the human interest stories of individual patients," the report said.

    If concluded that “mostly positive media stories are likely to have contributed to the CDF's continuation despite mounting evidence of its ineffectiveness”.

    Critics of the fund were "lone voices in the wilderness”, it said

    That study was commissioned by Richard Sullivan, Professor of cancer and global health at Kings College London, who advises other countries in cancer care regimes.

    In 2017 he said the UK's CDF had been a "huge waste of money" and a "major policy error" before NICE took over responsibility for it in 2016.

    A few years ago our Pharmac was the envy of many other countries.

    Have a look at the graph in the excellent Media Watch program. NZ is at the base in green and is very close to Australian success rate.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/mediawatch/audio/2018702689/cancer-campaign-coverage-puts-heat-on-pharmac

  17. Bewildered 19

    The problem is it’s a emotional plaything for whoever is in opposition to beat the government of the day around the head with Both National and labour have not been shy to do so, media then run with it or in some cases initiate for good press and opposition politicians more than happy to play ball.

  18. greywarshark 20

    Labour fears being accused of being profligate and of raising the net debt of an already indebted nation, but the Government's net debt is at the bottom of the OECD and the nation's net debt has fallen 20-30 percentage points of GDP in the last decade.

    Robertson and Ardern argue we are so vulnerable in the event of another GFC or an earthquake that we have to keep our powder dry. But they're thinking as if they were in the offices of Helen Clark or Michael Cullen from 1999 to 2008, when New Zealand's economy and balance sheets were both actually and relatively vulnerable.

    So says Bernard Hickey. https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2019/07/01/657972/how-phil-twyford-lost-housing-and-kiwibuild-failed

    1 July 2019 updated 7 July 2019

    If we did something that raised our dollar a little, that would no doubt put up our international debt, but would also put up prices of imports which would also reduce our imports which would enable us to reduce our international debt (private), which would make it easier for the Govt to borrow for infrastructure which would increase employment and wages, which would then increase spending, and more would go on NZ goods with imports being dearer, and then we could bring our interest rate up a little which would bring superannuiants spending up somewhat and so would produce quantitative raising.

    And this can be picked apart no doubt but I wonder if we want to keep on as we are going, because I feel that we are stuck and need to put a sack or board under the wheels for traction.

  19. greywarshark 21

    Kauri 350 year old and ringbarked in 2015 – cured by Maori with beeswax and curative leaf.

    'It's ridiculous': Top kauri scientist over lack of protection for Titirangi's Awhiawhi 20 Jun, 2019 https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12242227

    Trying to protect important long-term national assets from the crazies only interested in their short-term asses, requires staunchness and now some support. The Government is powerless against progress; both the Orc-land City Council and central gummint.
    .

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/114028761/neighbours-who-opposed-felling-of-400yearold-titirangi-kauri-tree-ordered-to-pay-court-costs
    Auckland neighbours who opposed felling of Titirangi kauri tree ordered to pay court costs 7 July 2019
    Two Aucklanders who took a group of developers to court in an attempt to save a centuries-old kauri tree have been ordered to pay $30,000 in court fees….

    Charlesworth said despite their disappointment in the judge's decision, she and Maehl acknowledged they had to pay and would be fundraising for the costs.

    Ron Hoy Fong's company prosecuted by Commerce Commission for alleged price fixing 8 July 2019
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12247644

    A company owned by a property investment guru who allegedly encouraged buyers to use fake names, work in packs to drive down prices and target desperate homeowners facing foreclosure is being prosecuted by the Commerce Commission…

    In 2017 the Weekend Herald revealed a tutoring video by Fong was being supplied free to members of the Auckland Property Investors Association (APIA).

    It encouraged investors to look for the "seven Ds" – targeting deceased estates, desperate homeowners facing foreclosure, developers on the brink of bankruptcy, divorcees and "dummies" who didn't know the value of their home.

    (Do the family wanting to cut down the historic tree for their puny development belong to the Auckland Property Investors Ass,?)

    and 4 July 2019 https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/04-07-2019/dude-wheres-my-kauri-the-pitched-battle-over-titirangi-trees/

    Watercare recently lodged a resource management application in order to begin construction of a replacement water treatment plant in the heart of Titirangi, adding to the powderkeg of tension between locals and Council over the protection of kauri trees.

  20. greywarshark 22

    Submissions on New Zealand’s Zero Carbon Bill close at 5pm on Tuesday 16 July – make your submission here.

  21. soddenleaf 23

    Maui is everything a race relation meeting? Are you always looking for the best help? Most people, seems to me, believe that racism occurs, and its a opportunity to dissauge, recondition, change minds. It isn't going to happen if racists like you see everyone else as racists, its a negative negative, perpetutaul cycle. We will, are even, one people, and we will just keep merging, and racists like you need to move on coz youre history. Sure there will be differences, like Hindus go to Temple, etc… ..must eat you up that.

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