Te Reo Putake yesterday in TS added a good big dose of spice to the “Internal Debate” that is consuming the Labour Party members and supporters.
The very long string of comments focused on TRP’s adamant assertion that there will be a “UNANIMOUS VOTE OF CONFIDENCE IN SHEARER IN CAUCUS” next month.
TRP strongly predicated this assertion on a few points.
The core one was that Labour will definitely win under Shearer and that all the Cunliffe faction are sucking-up in the hope of ministerial positions.
Friends, the relatively small recent movements in the polls show otherwise. We are no better off than when we lost in 2008. We would be better off if Phil had stayed. IMO. This is despite Key &co continually shooting themselves in both feet. The repeated trumpeting that there is a significant poll rise is just hype. Deluding ourselves will achieve nothing.
TPR’s next messaging is that “It’s policy that makes good government, not a slick leader.”
While a less than capable and polished Leader would be a secondary issue if there was a front bench free to communicate new policy, that is just not the case at present. Since 2008 we have tried to make new policies the plank for the leader to gain popularity. We are using policy only to underpin a less-than-slick leadership strategy for over five years. And putting policy in that diminished role has failed.
TRP then repeats the mantra that the 2014 election in in the bag, that it is Labour’s to loose. “And unless Shearer does something spectacularly stupid, he will be the next PM”.
Sleep-walking to victory. It is our turn to govern. The Nats will loose, we do not need to win! Don’t rock the boat boy and girls, we can sail into the Treasury benches if we paddle very quietly!
TRP then says that because he, TRP, cannot see any evidence of anyone throwing their hat is the ring then it is not happening. This stance suggests to me that TRP is a very well connected insider, possibly on the NZ Council or a similar lofty position.
The members do not come into TRP’s Wellington centred reckoning. However, they are telling their MPs the same thing they have been saying for the past eight months: the current leadership approach has not won the imagination of the membership, of the 800,000 that did not vote nor of the voting public. The membership is saying there must be a change.
We need a very wide change at the top, not merely the overdue retirement of King, Goff and Mallard to which TRP alludes. That change has to be in ATTITUDE towards reform as well as in personnel. The current attitude is damaging the party.
The serious concerns of the membership about the wider leadership’s approach to policy and to winning in 2014 drove the divisions at the Conference. The Conference was only the start of the reform process, not the end. The membership wants those reforms to be advanced, not snuffed. The membership see a robust leadership debate road-show as a critical part of this reform movement.
Khandalla Viper – I totally agree with your analysis. And especially about the oft-repeated mantra ” the 2014 election in in the bag, that it is Labour’s to lose”.
That is just what WILL happen if Labour does not change – both attitude, and the people at the top – Labour will lose yet again. And both our country and our people will suffer.
Come election year, the msm will turn against Shearer, Shon Key will “charm” the electorate again (and the electorate will fall for it !), the 800,000-odd who didn’t vote in 2011 won’t vote in 2014 and there might even be a larger number of non-voters, and the belief that National voters will somehow go to Labour because they don’t like Nat policies is misguided at best. National voters like being in power – and they never vote for Labour ! So they head for the polling booths en masse, and Labour voters stay at home. Its happened before, and it will happen again – if Labour does not change now.
“the 800,000-odd who didn’t vote in 2011 won’t vote in 2014”
That no party has stepped up to the plate to capture this vote bemuses me.
A huge opportunity wasted. If Craig can get the loony religious right to turn out, why not a party from the left aimed squarely at those disenfranchised from the system.
I had a plan, sent it to the Greens, twice, but heard nothing from them, though of course, I’m still willing to chat to Mr Servian in Hamilton West. 😉
“the 800,000-odd who didn’t vote in 2011 won’t vote in 2014″
And from the remainder who do vote, Labour could get 34%-35%, in an optimistic scenario. Certainly enough to hammer together a one term coalition of sorts, probably requiring NZ First. But climbing over 40%, to a result similar to what Labour achieved in both 2002 and 2005 is not a possibility that I have heard anyone even contemplating. Regardless of how many beers they have had.
As others have noted, this is a historical juncture for Labour.
From a comment to me on the Standard made by ‘i forget’ Chauvel ‘was’ in the Cunliffe camp but has not been demoted,
He performs well in the house and has the type of presence,(future leadership material), when on His feet speaking that has National Ministers cowering,
My view is that it isn’t important which particular faction the individual MP’s side with, more importantly is the willingness of the individual MP’s to vote to ‘trigger’ the party wide leadership February,
Should that occur, and i have my doubts, then whoever wins such a vote should be said to be the party’s choice and have the full backing of the party and it’s MP’s…
Hear what you’re saying regarding the relative lack of importance of the individual MPs’ factional loyalty. I agree.
The reason I’m interested is that I’m in the Ohariu electorate and have played with the idea of lending volunteer support in the next campaign. For that to happen David Shearer would need to be gone and CC would have to be one of the ones to see him off with a cheery wave.
I’m not a Labour party member and have almost completely lost faith in the party, while being increasingly Green and Mana. However, these are desparate times and you have to be practical so IF there were changes to the leadership and some solid and radical policy was announced I’d stand by them, as a voter and a practical supporter. It’s still a long and dreary wait till 2014 and much can change in that time so at this point I’m not holding my breath.
To my undying shame as a Party Member i trudged the miles stuffing letterboxes to aid the election of the Lange/Douglas fiasco,
There are still what seems a majority in the Labour Caucus who when the subject is broached nod sagely and intone with the utmost wisdom that what was inflicted upon the working class of New Zealand at the time ”had to happen”,
I stuck with Labour right up to the point where the Clark Government denied beneficiary dependent families the same tax credits as were given to the upper middle class,
I am now a Green Party Member and while my intentions this far out from 2014 are to vote Green i may be swayed by how close Mana can come to unseating Flavell, the Parliament could use the voice of Annette Sykes,
Should Sykes unseat Flavell the % of party votes should rise for Mana and if there was a chance of Mana gaining a third MP from the party vote they may well get mine,
Hope Metiria doesn’t read this or i am in trouble LOLZ, the above would of course depend upon the Green vote leading up to the 2014 election not only holding up but rising to at least bring one more Green MP into the house…
yes but that is not down to the actions of chauvel..heatley was born cowering..
..and as a person who has done commentaries on questiontime for some years..
..like the rest of the front bench..chauvel has not particularly impressed..
..(the best performer in labour is cunnliffe..hands down..he makes national ministers nervous..and nails them with cold/hard intellect/logic..)
..there is of course humour to be had from watching genter from the greens vs brownlee..
..it is a mouse vs. elephant kinda conflict..
..and i noted in an end of year summary that the mouse seems able to make the elephant bellow in distress on cue/at will..
..and as others have said more eloquently..this is a crossroads for labour..
..and yes..i also fear the party leadership is just planning on that sleepwalk to victory..
..which if successful..but without the needed policy u-turns on fighting poverty etc..
..they will be worse than useless..
..and like a previous commenter i have gone from a life-long labour voter..to green..to mana..
..and that because harawira seems to be the only one advocating concrete-policy to end poverty etc..
..why is labour scared of coming up with strong policies..and arguing them now..?
..i agree..that in tweedle-dee/tweedledum decades/govts like we have recently had/endured..that policy had to be kept hidden until just before the election..(‘cos tweedle could nick from tweedle..)
..but i really don’t think national are going to steal a brace of policies aimed at ending poverty..eh..?
..so i think that historical reality/way of doing things can be safely put to one side..eh..?
..and really..for a toxic govt such as this one – doing all they are doing that so many hate..(83% opposed to asset-sales…)..
..for labour to be smug/complacent/positively spinning the fact they are stuck down where they are in the polls..
I see nothing in those opinion polls but embarrassment for the Labour party. There’s spin, and there’s damn spin.
Regardless of being an mmp nation, low thirties, after four years of dodgy government shit, isn’t a positive endorsement of anything.
Someone in caucus must have been taking notes watching Bill English run the local economy – Do nothing and hope it picks up when other countries start spending up large again. Labour’s only chance is to forget the ‘credible alternative’ tag and make the agenda their own. Will they? If they past four years are anything to go by (save for three weeks of Goff flying solo in the election campaign) Will they f*ck.
In my brutally honest opinion, Labour’s a goner. It’s not the only party on the left, and again in my opinion, certainly not the best party on the left by a long way.
Shearer won’t be challenged, by anyone, and he’ll go on to mumble and fluster his way through every tv/house appearance all the way to 2014.
The leader is not more important than the party some will say, and they’re completely wrong. It does and will transfer into lost votes. I won’t vote for DS GR TM or any of the fuck nuggets pulling strings behind the scene, so that’s one.
I think TRP is right that no one will challenge in February, and that Shearer will lead Labour into the next election. The Labour caucus have shown such a remarkable lack of brains and guts that any other outcome is highly unlikely.
Labour will lose in 2014 and National will be a three term Government. Shearer will do okay in the polls up until the election campaign starts – steady or even moderately increasing from present position. The Shearerites will crow and say they were right and everyone else was wrong.
When the public get a look at Shearer during the debates they will baulk at the prospect of electing a PM who can’t string a sentence together and run back to John Key and National in fright. They will be pissed off at Labour for putting up an unelectable leader right when they wanted to get rid of National.
TRP is right Blue. There will be no challenge in February. I said so on yesterday’s O.M. He is also technically right that it isn’t so much a challenge as a ‘motion of confidence in the current leader.’ Shearer will get it, and it will be unanimous.
I think it’s a bit unfair to charge the Labour caucus with a lack of brains and guts. Setting aside the duped ABC Club acolytes, it’s not a lack of guts etc. It’s politics and commonsense. There was a coup alright… against Cunliffe. With the help of the MSM the coup organisers won. If Cunliffe and his supporters were to retaliate now they would be cutting their own throats.
I don’t agree that it’s all over for Cunliffe. He’s a relatively young man. He can afford to wait another few years – 5 years if necessary.
Anne you may well be right about this, supposing that nothing arises in the meantime to change the political landscape. However, the questions that have arisen in the past year or so will not, as Robert Winter puts it, “be patronised away.” http://robertwinter.blogspot.co.nz/2013/01/labour-in-new-year.html
I have come to suspect that Shearer’s elevation, the handing out of rank with limited authority to various MPs, and the ABC concept itself are the result of deal-making of the “no Brash no cash” kind. To me, the speed with which the caucus raced to head Cunliffe off at the pass had all the hallmarks of a panicked group protecting a done deal. Furthermore, the defence that “Labour must appeal to the middle class” handily reduces the concept of middle class to those who think their interests coincide with corporate interests. No one seems willing to acknowledge that many of the angry commentators on the Standard, etc, are in fact middle class.
If the Shearer clique continue to protect him from the party’s judgement, then his legitimacy as a leader remains compromised. The deal or deals that got him there (supposing I am right) seem make opposing demands on him to those of the membership, who for the most part want a centre left Labour Party. They will not be appeased by ambiguity and empty flattery. So, OK, Shearer might survive a motion of confidence, but that does not mean that his problems are over.
It’s true. My hypothesis does rely on nothing arising in the meantime….
In the meantime, how Shearer rises to the reshuffle challenge will, in my view, give us some of the answers we are seeking in terms of his leadership and how genuine is his desire to reunite the caucus and a large section of the membership. He can only do it if he:
1) re-instates Cunliffe to the front bench with his previous portfolios.
2) promotes talent such as those shown by Charles Chauval, Sue Moroney (and others) who were effectively demoted 12 months ago because they supported David Cunliffe.
I wholeheartedly agree Anne, with the added caveat that these people are not just promoted, but given real authority over their areas of expertise, and not just empty rank with strings attached.
No more gagging and silly games like the one played on Cunliffe late last year. I refer to his… arriving at the meeting of the West Auckland Licensing Trust (I think it’s called that) to find David Parker had been sent in his place. Someone can correct me if I’m wrong, but I saw it as an attempt by the ABC gang to further humiliate Cunliffe.
I suspect there are more malicious tricks that have not been made public – attempts to provoke him into lashing out a la Carter, so they can get rid of him once and for all. Which is why I think that deal-making must lie behind it – either that or the ABC group have a genuine crank among their number. I mean, Cunliffe is very much liked in his electorate, and is surely not that hard to get on with!
I mean, Cunliffe is very much liked in his electorate, and is surely not that hard to get on with!
Not according to the almost uniformly hostile coverage of him in the media. I keep hearing and reading that Cunliffe is “not liked” by his colleagues. I’ve never heard or seen any “journalist” ever provide an example of what Cunliffe has done to incur this alleged opprobrium, however.
I mean, Cunliffe is very much liked in his electorate, and is surely not that hard to get on with!
He is indeed, and not only in his electorate. He is highly regarded by a lot of people. And there-in I suspect lies much of the problem. Some of his caucus colleagues are jealous. Put it to them, and they would laugh out loud and exclaim… what a lot of nonsense. But imho, that is the core of the problem. It has been amply demonstrated that jealousy can cause some people to lose their marbles…
Oh and btw… we know there was deal making 12 months ago at the time of the contest. That’s why Parker pulled out of the race. He was promised the shadow Finance portfolio if he did so. What’s the bet he has also been promised the role of Finance Minister when they become the government. I don’t doubt his credentials for the job, but underhand deals and being a part of attempts to smear and discredit a perceived rival should not be prerequisites for premium ministerial positions.
David is adored by his LEC. Over the past 11 years I have watched him build it into a large, ethnically diversified, well-managed team.
If Cunliffe switches parties, I predict the entire LEC will switch with him. If he drops out of politics, I predict his LEC will virtually disappear.
If that happens, New Lynn will go National. New Lynn is NOT a safe Labour seat. We work damn hard to get the numbers for David. Compare the significantly higher vote tallies for David than for the Labour party vote.
If there is no open leadership contest in February, I will join the Greens but return to help Cunliffe’s electorate campaign in 2014.
He is far and away the most intelligent and creative MP in NZ today.
The only way his opponents have been able to counter him is with character assassination. That should tell you a lot about him and them.
Tall poppy syndrome (TPS) is a pejorative term primarily used in the UK, Canada, New Zealand and other Anglosphere nations to describe a social phenomenon in which people of genuine merit are resented, attacked, cut down, or criticised because their talents or achievements elevate them above or distinguish them from their peers.
And an apology from David Shearer to ALL voters for his bullshit way of treating Cunliffe and others, all on the back of a Gower story hunt. So when ever I see a Gower story on TV3 website I always ask how a Snot nosed schoolboy can get a job like that.
I found TRP’s comments pretty odd as well. There needs to be a real distinction between leadership and policy; one is not a substitute for the other. Leadership is what makes policy real, even in Opposition.
For me the current leadership did a great job with the housing speech, but that’s one hit on a year of nothing. And indeed since the conference in November, pretty much radio silence.
Just astonishing at the lack of activity around the asset sales petition last week – indeed an unconvincing performance by Chippie that really did not carry beyond one news day. Anyone else stepped into that space?
And of course the holiday season is fantastic downtime where everyone is reading and wants to engage about stuff other than work. So where were the think pieces from Spokespeople in the newspapers? At our place we had well placed sources doing stuff for our industry right the way through. Newspapers are begging for content at this time, as are TV.
I know what leadership would feel like – and right now it’s just a hollow space. Holidays are not an excuse. They are a time to attack. Where’s the attack? Does Shearer have a date for this next massive speech, or is he going to wait for Parliament to resume?
Shearer has squandered a ripe leadership moment. I want my leadership vote. Give me my vote.
Kman: The election is Labour/Greens to lose. National are tired, running out of ideas, energy and, importantly, support parties inside Parliament. ACT and the Maori Party look stuffed, Dunne may just hang on, but that won’t be enough to keep the Nats in power. Key’s only hope is Winston, which looks like less of an option these days.
Jenny Kirk: ‘Time for a change’ will be a factor, for sure. National will need to do better than they did at the last election to win because of the collapse of the MP and ACT. That improvement seems unlikely going into a third election.
The Al1en: There is already a party like that. It’s called Mana. Nice to hear you’re on good terms with Mark Servian. He’s a great guy … the Golden Gordon of kiwi politics.
Blue: thanks, you seem to get where I’m coming from, even if you are pessimistic about the election.
Coronial Typer: you sound like you need a holiday yourself. Like it or not, parliament is on a break, there won’t be much political news for a few weeks yet. Which is fine by me, because MP’s are workers too and earn their breaks. (yes, I know, I snorted myself writing that sentence, but honestly, MP is such a shitty, all consuming and public job, most MP’s piss off overseas where noone knows them to get a real break).
“There is already a party like that. It’s called Mana.”
Not really. That’s a big assumption that those 800,000 identify with Hone’s agenda, just because they’re, for whatever reason out of the loop.
I’m not personally convinced mana represents outside it’s core constituents, which is of course their right to do so. There’s certainly room for another left party. Certainly room for an extra 5% that doesn’t come with winston, and certainly a cup of tea for our side to negate the one in Epsom.
I bet a new left party would consistently outpoll act, the conservatives and dare I say mana.
“Nice to hear you’re on good terms with Mark Servian. He’s a great guy”
I wouldn’t know. The point was I didn’t get a reply, much to my bemusement.
“the Golden Gordon of kiwi politics.”
No idea what that means, I’ll have to google, but I’m sure there’s plenty Golden Gordens.
You may have to expand, or not.
Golden Gordon was a legendary footballer in the comedy series Ripping Yarns. Specifically an episode about the hopeless Barnstoneworth United. Since the series came out, BUFC’s have popped up all around the world, including in Hamilton’s sunday league. It was my privilege to make up the numbers in that team a decade or two back, alongside the good Mr Servian.
If Shearer is the leader at the next election (it may not be in November 2014) then Labour are gonners and the 800,000 non-voters will pale by comparison. Yesterday I looked at the Labour Party website for policy statements; couldn’t find one. Labour had the best policies at the last election but still lost; how is it going to be different next time? Labour need a strong, articulate, caring and capable leader with the best interests of the majority of NZer’s at heart….. David Shearer is not the one.
The caucus is a mess. All down to the ABCer’s. Don’t they care?
A couple of days ago I asked (if by some miracle) David Cunliffe was elected leader what would he do about the ABCer’s. I haven’t had an answer yet. Looks like the LEC’s have some urgent work to do.
labour have to be very careful in releasing policy because a good right wing govt will steel those policies its better to be be vague until 6 months from the election the best thing the left can do is highlight govts failures and mistakes at this stage!
3 left wing policies that the National Party cannot steal
1) 50,000 social housing units built by a renewed Ministry of Public Works, provided on both long and short term leases at 25% of household income, or alternatively sold to those on lower incomes via 1% pa no deposit interest rate mortgages.
2) 10,000 new trade apprenticeships for youth unemployed…working on building the socialised housing above.
3) Rationalisation of the NZ banking sector ensuring KiwiBank plays a far bigger role, including holding tens of thousands of new social housing mortgages on behalf of the government.
I’ll guarantee you that National could not steal the above policies. HOWEVER if you release CENTRIST MIDDLE OF THE ROAD POLICIES then yes, National will steal them.
Of course, the other reason you might not want to release policy yet is if you don’t have any ready to go.
labour have to be very careful in releasing policy because a good right wing govt will steel those policies
And if they’re good policies, and Labour actually lets people know that they’re Labour policies, then Labour makes a huge song and dance every single time about it.
Here’s the key messages, thought up in about two minutes off the top of my head:
“We’re happy to see the National government taking up Labour policies.”
“Clearly this government has run out of ideas, but that’s okay, because this is a good Labour policy.”
“The Government has done the right thing by realising their policies haven’t helped New Zealand at all, and that Labour policies will get us out of the hole they’ve dug in the economy.”
“We’re happy we can help steer New Zealand in the right direction by providing good, productive, sensible policies which the Government wants to steal.”
The thought of Shearer as PM is depressing to me. So far I’ve not seen anything about him that appeals: not his public performances, not his political positioning (or lack of any real commitment to truly left wing policies), not his personality – nada.
However, I’m really not certain who there is that would make a good LP caucus leader. Cunliffe certainly needs to be in the front-tow team, but he may or may not make a good leader.
In the face of this, the only way forward at this stage, is for me to put more effort in supporting the Greens/Mana, and in supporting whatever the NZLP members come up with. With more democratic tools, it’s only the membership that can shift the NZLP in a positive direction, IMO. And that also means focusing on promoting policies and directions that are soundly those of the left and wider labour movement.
But surely Cunliffe is a BETTER option than Shearer. With Shearer there is no way Labour will win; our only chance, irrespective of policy, is with Cunliffe…. there is no other option that I can see.
Yes, I would prefer Cunliffe. Don’t know how he will go in leading caucus, and if he will be able to unite them, though. Shearer is a non-starter, IMO.
Just noting that TRP is very consistent; last year he said that as long as Labour’s polling stayed good, Shearer was “home and hosed” as Labour Leader and that we should all get used to it.
PM Shearer is a distinct possibility in 2014. For what it’s worth.
But Shearer’s possibility, on previous form, is reliant on a nat fall over and certainly not from what I’ve seen, the inclusive politics he spoke about in the race to succeed Goff.
A win by default is still a win, but not really what I want from a party chasing my vote, or the sort of ambitious, aspirational government I’m looking for in exchange for it.
Gut feeling about 2014, still very much key’s to lose.
Yep. It’s the classic “don’t rock the boat” sleepwalk to victory. Which I also abhor.
Currently, our entire country (world?) is sleepwalking off a resource depletion and climate change cliff. Hands-off market led neoliberal style bullshit got us here and is not going to cut it.
It’s a weakness and along with abhor, something that should be resisted.
The people need a leader they can follow. It’s a dire prognosis all around if we don’t find one, nationally and abroad. cometh the time etc..
It’s not coming from NZP, so where? Is maybe the more urgent question needed to be addressed.
Oh yes they have been consistent They have NOT polled above 33.5% since 2008. And this is good why?? SO Shearer may lead them to the next train wreck/election. As I said before it’s all about trust. And the only thing we can trust Shearer to do, is protect his pay packet!
I know that CV But with all the screw ups the NACTS have had last year, anyone with half a brain would have made hay at their expense. But what did we hear from Shearer and co the deafening sound of Silence, as usual! And with all the screw ups then Labour should have been about 40+ not stagnant at 32.5.
The Nats are preparing to torpedo Shearer in four streams.
a)They will get tame journos to ask “off piste” questions to try to embarrass him.
b) Key will push for heaps of face to face opps to try to embarrass him.
c) The Nats have background and context to his “Kiwi of the Year” nomination.
d) The management style and tactics deployed in the UN job will be compared to the Labour job.
The Nats are determine not to give 2014 away without a fight and they will fight as dirty as it takes. They believe they can win because Winston’s price is known.
They vuew the current labour leadership as its Achilles heel.
At your service, KV. Did I mention that it was the comment of yours saying that CC had me as her first target which made me realise that the temperature was climbing higher than I expected and that action was required? Thanks for that.
Curran apologise? **guffaw** That’ll be a democratic socialist day in caucus. Regardless, I don’t require any apology from her.
As for pugatory mate, I had a good stay, better than that I made good friends with a few leviathans while I was away 😈
Last week the Syrian Government announced it had captured the brother of assassinated Al Qaeda leader al Zawahiri (who if we have to believe the US has been killed several times over the last few years). No Western MSM wanted to run with it.
Mohamed al-Zawahiri was captured on what the rebels and the MSM are calling a humanitarian mission!
What gets me is that we have invaded Afghanistan on what we were told was to eliminate the worlds most dangerous terrorist organization. We invaded Iraq and killed a million people to catch these bastards and now the leader is doing humanitarian work?
That a good one, He who was captured is just as likely to be in the employ of either the UN or the US via the Saudi Government,
You have to get with the real picture, prior to September 11 Al Qaeda were US funded and armed assets during the Soviet/Afghan war,
Priorities tho have now changed, Syria being the new target of US sponsored destabilization calls for new strategies and assets of Arab extraction are of premium value in turning Syria into a failure of a State to match those of Afghanistan and Iraq,
Next stop for the road show of course is Iran, all that oil yummy…
Bad12, from what I can make out the west is panicking. there are no real good options. the chances of Zawahiri being in the pay of the Sauds, let alone the west, are remote. He considers the sauds to be apostate.
The west at the moment is most concerned about assads weapons falling into the hands of the rebels, and who may get their hands on them after that. If the west sends in troops, that’s what they will doing, isolating and destroying as much of assad’s stockpile as they can.
the Russians are moving ships, and marines into the area, probably to be a counter force (ripwire) against escalation, and to protect a pocket for Allawites to flee to. Also, to cover the withdrawal of Russian ‘civilians’.
That’s highly amusing, i always enjoy someone who parrots the news gathered from the MSM as if it were the Gospel,
Lets see now,Zawahiri thinks the Saudi’s are apostate but happily worked alongside Bin Laden, whose family is Saud and part of the ruling class as well as personal friends of the Bush family,
Are you suggesting that the group Bin Laden lead while fighting the Russians in Afghanistan was not funded by US cash funneled from the US via various ‘foundations’ and think-tanks’,
Even more amusing, is the supposed fear of ‘weapons of mass destruction’, now where have we heard that little tale before,
What the US in particular is most concerned about at the moment is the destabilization of the Arab country’s with strong leadership who do not align themselves with the US,
The strategy is to smash these country’s back to the stone-age in terms of intercine tribal and religious sects battling for power, the US can then deal favorably in terms of arms and support with the faction that has control of the oil production,
Bin Laden and any group He headed are essentially mercenaries, they may hate the West and the ruling class of the various Arab potentates, but, are still guns for hire as are a large number of other Arab staffed groups currently aiding in the destruction of the State of Syria,
Feel free tho to allow the mainstream media to tell you what to think of the current situation as it is at the least amusing to examine your belief system which does not seem to have been altered by the events in either Iraq or Afghanistan…
The strategy is to smash these country’s back to the stone-age in terms of intercine tribal and religious sects battling for power, the US can then deal favorably in terms of arms and support with the faction that has control of the oil production,
Don’t forget the tens of billions in reconstruction contracts for western corporations coming in to rebuild infrastructure smashed by western laser guided bombs a la Libya. It’s a great deal: one $50K bomb can create $20M in reconstruction contracts. Excellent return on investment.
I’m glad you find it amusing, but it’s ironic that the amusement is based on so much ignorance.
Yes, Bin laden is (or rather was) a Saud. But his citizenship was revoked at around the time he declared jihad on the regime. This happened a long time ago. You can find his declaration of war on the Sauds in plenty of places.
If you read it, and only that, you’ll find it useful to understanding these guys. You’d be better to read “The Looming Tower” which is very thorough.
The main thing, I guess, is to understand what AQ, Islamic Jihad and related theorists mean by “the near enemy”, and “the far enemy”.
And it’s not accurate to claim that AQ was funded by the CIA. AQ was set up to act as an alternative for jihadis. Bin laden felt that western funding of jihad was counterproductive, that it would co-opt any jihad and prevent sharia being implemented. that’s why he set up “the base” and sought funding from wealthy salafists. When Iraq invaded Kuwait, he offered to use this ‘base’ of supporters and jihadis to wage jihad. The Saud regime turned him down.
none of this stuff is secret, or propaganda, it’s history.
I was going to leave this, but given your demands in another thread that people debate in a manner fitting for this site, or whatever horseshit it is you are saying, I’ll give it a few minutes more, for your amusement.
Are you suggesting that the group Bin Laden lead while fighting the Russians in Afghanistan was not funded by US cash funneled from the US via various ‘foundations’ and think-tanks’,
Yep. I’m saying that. There is little to no credible evidence that the US funded AQ, and nothing at all that is conlcusive. The so called ‘Arab afghans’ were few in number (under 10,000) and pretty much kept to themselves. They were funded by Arabs, including OBL. OBL, late in the war, set up AQ as a database of arab mujaheddin to be used in fighting the ‘near enemy’ That’s why it translates as ‘the base’ and it’s why in those grainy ‘training videos’ you see them doing guerilla warfare training rather than terrorist training.
Those who claim AQ was funded and or created by the CIA or the US, tend to be ignorant about the war and the philosophies of those involved. They assume that because the CIA was providing funds and weapons to mujaheddin that this included AQ. It’s lazy and ignorant,, but suits their purpose.
Even more amusing, is the supposed fear of ‘weapons of mass destruction’, now where have we heard that little tale before
All sorts of places. the most relevant would be Iraq after the first gulf war. The regime admits it has them, the rest of the world’s intelligence agencies agree. Are you saying they do not? based on what? A logical fallacy along the lines of ‘Bush claimed Saddam had wmd in 2003 but he didn’t, therefore all such claims are false” perhaps? (And I’ll just note in passing here that I never mentioned WMD, the concern around that is real of course, but the missile stocks and other conventional weaponry is just as troubling).
Surely you could not be that stupid. So please. if you doubt he has chemical weapons, outline the reasons for that doubt in the face of the evidence that he does have them.
Bin Laden and any group He headed are essentially mercenaries, they may hate the West and the ruling class of the various Arab potentates, but, are still guns for hire as are a large number of other Arab staffed groups currently aiding in the destruction of the State of Syria,
Citation very much required, because that is hilarious. If one reads the histories of AQ and Blackwater, one is struck by the similarit.., nah, that’s just fucking daft.
Feel free tho to allow the mainstream media to tell you what to think of the current situation as it is at the least amusing to examine your belief system which does not seem to have been altered by the events in either Iraq or Afghanistan…
So come on, tell me about my belief system and how it related to those wars, and how it didn’t change.
And then, tell me where you get your information from, if not from the media. Because at the moment it looks like you reject something if it is said in the media, as long as it doesn’t conform to your preconceived notions about how things ‘really are’.
It’s all pretty weak, and anticipated in my comment.
You’ve ignored most of what I said, and have, as predicted, conflated mujaheddin with AQ.
Here’s your initial; claim:
You have to get with the real picture, prior to September 11 Al Qaeda were US funded and armed assets during the Soviet/Afghan war
Operation cyclone was about supporting the mujaheddin, and there is no conclusive evidence that OBL was funded. The implication that he was directly funded by the US is even harder to substantiate, which is probably why you are having such a hard time coming up with any good direct sources or quotes.
I’ll repost this in the relevant thread and hopefully we’ll see something substantive.
I really want to hear about my belief system and the evidence for doubt about Assad’s weaponry
Where is anyone in the western MSM calling it a humanitarian mission ( as opposed to reporting that it is being called that by the syrian rebels)? (Your link is 404d and I can’t find it).
Here is a copy of the guys peace proposal from back in september:
(Hope that link works, you might need to register to FP to see it, which is free to do and well worth while, even if just to see what FP pros are saying).
There is nothing too surprising in it. Mohamed al-Zawahiri is a founding member of the Egyptian Islamic Jihad, and his ‘peace proposal’ reflects that. ‘Sharia law = peace’ pretty much.
Eve: not seeing any justification for your claim that the ‘MSM’ are calling it a humanitarian mission. That piece, and it looks to be the one you linked to, outlines the links between violent Islamic extremists and the rebels in some detail.
No you are right. The “rebels” are telling us he was there on a humanitarian mission. And the article is faithfully repeating that. While claiming that Assad will no doubt try to make the most of the capture of this friendly old man who was according to the “rebels” only trying to broker deals so aid could get through and daffodils could grow in peace.
The article reports some facts.
– The regime claims about the capture
– The rebel’s response to those claims
– Some background on some of the rebel groups.
You stated that the MSM had never suggested that al Zawahiri had been on a humanitarian mission. I put it to you that by omitting his connection with extremely unpleasant CIA financed “rebels” and these “rebels” claiming that Zawahiri was only in Syria because of humanitarian reasons the did not dispel the notion that under the circumstances it would have been extremely unlikely that he was there because he wanted to be nice.
In fact they suggested that Assad would do just that, implying that just because Zawahiri was in Syria talking with “rebels” and with his violent al Qaeda background this did not mean he was there for nefarious reasons and that Assad would just use his capture for propaganda reasons.
Other than that your comment is disingenuous as you were the one “complaining” that the MSM had not in fact claimed themselves that Z was in Syria for Humanitarian reasons. I like it when you do that because while I know you won’t go to any of the link I give there are many who do which helps spreading information which might allow people to make up their mind in different ways than the Propaganda machine would like
I put it to you that by omitting his connection with extremely unpleasant CIA financed “rebels” and these “rebels” claiming that Zawahiri was only in Syria because of humanitarian reasons the did not dispel the notion that under the circumstances it would have been extremely unlikely that he was there because he wanted to be nice.
Well, let’s see what the ‘MSM’ said after reporting the conflicting claims about what the claimed presence of Zawahiri means:
Ayman al-Zawahiri, who took over as al-Qa’ida leader following the killing of Osama bin Laden, has declared that it is the duty of Muslims to take part in a jihad against the “pernicious, cancerous regime” of Bashar al-Assad and warned the opposition against depending on the West for help.
Jabhat al-Nusra, an Islamist rebel group with links to al-Qai’da, has become increasingly powerful in the conflict, overshadowing the more moderate fighters, and its leader, Abu Muhammad al-Julani, is said to be in personal contact with Ayman al-Zawahiri.
There is also evidence of groups of foreign volunteers, albeit not in large numbers, joining the uprising. Mohamed al-Zawahiri has, however, denied in the past that he wanted to get involved in the Syrian struggle. Speaking in Cairo recently, he stated that he had no plans to join the rebellion. Mr Zawahiri spent 14 years in an Egyptian prison on charges of being involved in the assassination of President Anwar Sadat in 1981 and taking part in terrorist acts. But he has protested his innocence and insisted that he now devotes his time to attempt reconciliation between jihadists and mainstream Islam.
Mohamed al-Zawahari is a former military commander of the Islamic Jihad movement, but has, he has stressed, turned away from violence. He claims to have been a conduit for talks between hardline Salafist groups in the Sinai and the Egypt’s Muslim Brotherhood government. Last year Mr Zawahiri offered to help in negotiations between the US and Islamists and maintained that his attempts at reconciliation had made him a target for hardline Islamists who have accused him of betraying the cause. There is no evidence that his offer was taken seriously by the US administration.
The reports of his presence in Syria have come from rebel factions but remain unconfirmed.
Deraa, near the Jordanian border, has, however, become a stronghold for Jabhat al-Nusra where its “emir”, the organisation has announced, is Abu Julaybib, a brother-in-law of the former leader of al-Qa’ida in Iraq who was killed in an American air strike in 2006.
They detail the reported presence of various AQ related people and groups within Syria, if anything, that supports the regimes claims, does it not? Are they denying, or downplaying the links to AQ?
What would rather they do:
1) Censor the claims by the rebels and just report the regimes claims?
Or
2)report the claims of all sides, and the known links, and allow readers to exercise their judgement about the claims made?
PB, are you really trying to use logic on a ticking fruitcake? Well good look and I applaud your optimism, but keep that up and we might be questioning your sanity too.
Labour is at a critical point in its life cycle. If it doesn’t make changes soon it will continue to slowly slide backwards in the poles. The main winner will be the Greens. The other winner will be National as the swing voters will chose to stay with them.
I have been a member of the Labour Party for a mere 18 months, and its been a real let down the way MP’s treat members… “amateur” is the word that comes to mind. The Caucus need a real shake up otherwise long term Labour support is going to continue to decline. But then you get the impression that many in the caucus don’t really care about the Party in the long term!
(ps: I have always had the impression that TRP has a contact in the ABC club.)
National’s friends are wanting the Commerce Commission to be gutted because it is attempting to reduce Chorus charges.
According to an earnest sounding Simon Botherway on Radio New Zealand the surge in the share market experienced last year is threatened because investors will be afraid that the Commission “has become an activist body for consumers and forgotten about the risk that investors take with their money.” Obviously the return to investors should be the only concern of the Government body.
He makes no comment about whether or not Chorus’s charges were justified. Perhaps he thought this to be irrelevant.
This typifies the attitude of the wealthy and was an underlying cause of the global financial crisis. Returns to investors are never enough and any entity which stands in the way must be weakened.
We have still got a long way to go before New Zealand’s utilities quake before regulators. It’s the usual drill:
(A) Ask the (insert major industry) for advice on how to regulate, to which they reply it’s too hard, truly, and should be best left to self-regulation. Under National this usually works, but often works under Labour as well.
(B) When the self-regulation idea fails, the (insert major industry) sets itself up as the collective wisdom in this terrifyingly complex field and provides all the research for the government Department drafting the regulations. And then poach their staff.
(C) When the limits of this – and all the stalling entailed within it – are reached, the (insert major industry) seeks “peer review” from “international best practise” which a thin little country like this couldn’t know, and all the major consultants in the world for (insert major industry) know that the government job will be a one-off, but the industry will be around for ever buttering their bread.
(D) After several years, and a change of government, which (insert relevant industry) 3rd party funded up the wazoo to get in, the Board of the regulator is formed after all manner of golf games have been played
(E) The regulations are finally enacted, which are so complicated because of the size and power and national importance of the (insert major industry) that only a real dork of a lawyer couldn’t find a loophole, and finally
(F) By the time everyone’s filed and counter-filed and appealed to all relevant layers, there’s been no regulation for well over a decade. Or another fresh government has decided the whole thing just wasn’t worthwhile so we all just have to start again with a different kind of regulatory system, new legislation, and a restructure of the regualtors themselves.
This is practise we are seeing now, as with the massive utility price case we see down at the Wellington High Court which has been going on for several years now and will be appealed for several more.
Or you could do what the last Labour leader with any balls did with a major utility: cut their head off. Poor old Telecom. They hadn’t realised that David Cunliffe had ensured that the Cabinet SubCommittee had been fully delegated to make the decision to cleave them in half, rather than needing the next full Cabinet meeting.
That was not only policy in action, that was Leadership. That’s what it feels like.
+1 an interesting analysis would be the amount in each utility bill that goes to lawyers, auditors, staff and management overhead required to deal with compliance issues including base regulation, comm comm tiffs etc, so in effect the whole shooting match that’s grown since these were all gov’t departments.
Some are nonsense and must be challenged as the regulators often go ‘how about this, that should give us all something to do…’ and some are essential to prevent profiteering. Problem is the big money isn’t spent by the rule makers it’s the Utilities who invest big to ensure they stay one step ahead, all at the consumers cost.
DC showed how it’s done with TCom and they showed arrogance and contempt for the open market. IMO it effectively set a standard the cowering caucus know they’ll not measure up to.
I miss the box on the voting form to re-nationalise industries, that would be an interesting result.
The only thing that needs to be done with utilities is that they should be brought back into government ownership as a state monopoly. It’s the only way to get lower costs and it does that by getting rid of the mass duplication of competition.
Hey IrishBill you issued a major policy challenge on the weekend. Big call for the authors here, and the editors.
When are you going to start turning that into a project – something beyond the usual wishlists and fantasies and theoretical catastrophies I see here usually?
Over at the National Business Review there is a lively comments section underneath their printing of Brian Edwards’ now infamous paean for “Sir” Paul Holmes.
What makes it more interesting than usual is that one of the commenters is one David Walden, a puffy advertising man who, together with Murray Deaker, ran the idiotic Black Heart campaign in 2003, which had to be closed down after a series of incidents, including restaurateurs refusing to serve the Alinghi crew, and some supporters physically threatening the Alinghi crew members’ families.
With not even the slightest sense of irony, Walden has posted the following gem: “God I hate the small minds in this country who take a swipe at anyone who has the balls to put their head above the parapet, have a go , and succeed. Get a life!”
Why don’t YOU comment? It’s easy and you’ll get straight through….
Back at work again. The DIY “holiday” is now behind me. No more cables to hide, washing lines to install, doors and windows to fix, toilets to stop dribbling, computers to change hard drives with SSD’s, etc etc.
I got a lot less done than I wanted on The Standard.
C’mon, McFliper, you c’n do it! Best strategy, seeing as you’ve already read the offending article, is to skip the mediocre thing and go straight to the comments.
Yep. I prefer to let them rot, if they’re well out of my way. It’s only when I’m in danger of stepping in one that I feel compelled to manhandle it out of the way.
Shearer shows he means it – by Mike Smith – December 21, 2011
Quoted below in full, without further comment.
Labour’s new leader promised a fresh approach. He’s delivered already in his speech in reply today. Gone is the ritual opening denunciation of the government’s programme – Shearer begins with where a new Labour government would start.
He puts Labour firmly on the path to winning in 2014 – the intention is clearly stated and the programme for the clean, green and clever New Zealand is exactly the right one. He understands what New Zealanders expect of their MPs. It’s a very good start.
Far be it for anyone to point out that being positive and looking forward might be just as legitimate a political tactic as doing nothing but criticising and whinging from the sidelines like a tool.
I’m not doing nothing. I’m questioning these above statements.
When an opposition party remains as quiet as Labour have this year over the vast array of issues occurring, you can be assured that a large number of potential voters will assume what I have in the above comment. Crying and complaining about that being stated as much as you like, however it won’t change the veracity of it.
It goes like this: “Why bother voting? The two main parties are much of a muchness”
Sound familiar?
Many voters not voting is o.k for whoever gets in, they still get the baubles of office. This is not-so good for the general welfare of the country however. Is this type of moral hazard going on in our main opposition party?
You are welcome to be positive. At present I see no real reason for that with regard to Labour’s recent behaviour.
Any business would know that complaints are an opportunity for improvement. Far better than people having a negative thoughts/experiences and keeping quiet. Word of mouth is the most effective advertising. But of course, McFliper, you know that, that is probably why you wrote your comment. Here’s a thought: instead of complaining about well-founded comments, how about complaining to the Labour caucus that their message ain’t strong enough? That way we will both be happy.
yeah sorry, I wasn’t actually meaning anybody here when I wrote it, and that’s the truth. Sorry I didn’t express myself properly. Possibly linked to the wrong comment, too.
Indeed, part of my opposition to the seemingly incessant anti-shearer stuff some commenters put forward here is expressly because this forum is not just an echo-chamber. And I fundamentally disagree that nact and lab are “much of a muchness”.
But I think that putting positives forward rather than attacking directly is a legitimate tactic in this case:
a) key and nact will not rise to it. They don’t give a shit, and will lie without a flicker of doubt. This lessens the effectiveness;
b) Mana/Greens/NZ1 are attacking, and even some good work by labour front benches (Ardern has been very active in areas of my interest). Rather than overload the opposition with negativity, I think the leader (whomever it be) should provide vision (in a positive comparison to when Key lays down the credibility of his ministers to save himself);
c) Labour did the attack thing all through the last term, to little avail. Time for a reconsider, is my guess.
Yes, complaints are an opportunity for improvement. But sometimes the squeakiest wheel is not needed, at which point it behoves one to consider the cost/benefit of just letting it seize up or fall off rather than feeding it more grease.
ps sorry about the handle change – form autofill on another machine 🙂
Ah that’s a relief, I thought I was heading for another “be positive; no I won’t” type conversation. There have been enough of them!
Yes it is good to list the positives I agree with most of the list apart from c), which I don’t think amounted to much compared with the other parties. I really do have a real worry about what type of government Labour are planning to create next time they are in power and this concern largely comes from the weakness surrounding their attacks on this current “government” (well that’s what is is commonly called, anyway…more closely resembling a circus if you asked me…).
I usually get rather annoyed with people saying that Nat and Labour are much of a muchness, there is a distinct difference when each party is in power (for those on the extreme ends of poverty/wealth anyway). My comment was really trying to illustrate what I believe is a general impression created by a lackadaisical opposition style…didn’t Labour have an approach of cooperation with the last term’s Government in order to come across as “fair and reasonable”? What effect did that have on the voter turn-out? Just sharing my train of thought here, not hard and fast conclusions, however they are getting that way….
That is an interesting comment re letting the squeaky wheel seize up…that is a good point.
The trouble with the 2011 campaign is that it can be made to say nothing of note.
People who want to point out Labour being reasonable as a cause of their turnout, can.
People who want to say Labour was “too left” in the campaign by going back to its roots and scaring off voters, can.
People who want to say labour was “too negative”, can.
It’s like 2014: if the next two years are like 2012, then Labour’s low vote will be blamed on Shearer by Cunliffe supporters, and blamed on negative-nellies by Shearer supporters (or those who are happy for any change from National and hope that the minor parties rather than Labour will drive the major policy shifts).
There’s also an instinctive bias that what we recall of Labour 2008-11 is what others recall. My personal impression is that Labour left the policy push too late, and that prior to that they still had the tired look from the 2008 defeat.
I think that if Labour bounce around policy ideas this year (and yes have an open leadership vote if Cunliffe or anyone wants to run), they can have a bit more “oomph” in 2014 than 08/11.
..which kinda leads to a question I have been pondering recently. Are the Labour Party doing any market research on their strengths and weaknesses, as in, doing some sort of information gathering on what might have been the cause of their poor results last election? Or low voter turnout?
I realize this type of research would never be entirely accurate, however it would be good to know that some sort of feedback loop was being conducted; trends could probably be discovered.
Talk to the membership.
NO NEED FOR MARKET RESEARCH. That is what is f#c@ing us.
We are a political party. The values, issues, concerns, worries, ambitions and the family, community, business activities of our members is our information database.
That is why we changed our constitution, so that the input of the members will have more influence on the Caucus.
Our MPs, NZ Council reps, Policy and Sectoral people are connected to most facets of society and the economy. (Perhaps a few in the “Beltway” of Wellington are not!)
Most of the frustration expressed in these pages in the past year have been a cry for the Caucus to listen to the MEMBERS.
hmm yes…I see what you mean McFlock re KV’s response (heh), however the links you provided appeared to be talking about focus groups for policies. I was more talking about perceptions and finding peoples’ reasons for the non-vote…I think there would be important information to be had out of such research. In fact I have already commented on what I figure might be one cause.
Khandalla Viper (&McFlock) I believe I am referring to something different than what you are talking about. The end result of what you promote in your comment and what I am referring to may achieve the same thing; more connection with the voters.
Lets not be forgetting that a lot (if not most) voters are not reading up on policies at election-time*; there is something else that they are basing their vote on.
*I admit this is an assumption, yet one I am prepared to risk making.
It is my perception that Labour have been really flailing around, kind of stabbing in the dark, as to their general approach, for years. Policies are very important (obviously), however strategy is too. I believe Nat is popular solely due to strategy, not policies. Isn’t the Asset Sales policy a case in point? Knowing what is turning voters off is pretty important information, and when it comes to elections I suspect (sadly) that policy is a very small part of what makes a Party popular.
“And I fundamentally disagree that nact and lab are “much of a muchness””
I can’t speak for anyone else, but my version of that complaint is that Labour has, in effect, become part of the mechanism of shutting out opposition to the assumptions of neoliberalism, or whatever you wish to call it.
It’s like the ‘good cop’ to National’s ‘bad cop’ – but the overall effect is the same; to get the electorate to submit to the ‘inevitability’ of a deregulated, market-based, ‘non-political’ means of making collective determinations about our future as a society.
To the extent that Labour continues to cleave to the economic individualism rationale for solving social issues (e.g., housing crises) it remains a non-left party by any substantive definition of what the term ‘left’ means.
Only through proudly advocating collective, political means to solve social issues could it correctly be called a left-wing party. Remember that even Douglas claimed that he wanted the same ‘ends’ as Labour had always wanted – he was just implementing different ‘means’.
The means are actually what distinguish ‘left’ and ‘right’ because the means are the ends – it’s all about different ways to run a society, after all.
It is in that sense that I think the current Labour caucus is part of the same ‘symphony’ and acts (no doubt unwittingly) in concert with National – albeit Labour performs a different ‘movement’ from that performed by National, with correspondingly different ‘tones’.
@Puddleglum
I fundamentally agree with your comment, Your first two paragraphs describe well, in my mind, why I hear many many comments re “the two main parties being much of a muchness”.
In the bigger picture, perhaps they are not so very different, however, when it comes to details, I disagree with them being (exactly) the same. i.e. it does make a difference having a Labour/coalition government. i.e when someone says to me “I’m not voting because all parties are the same” I implore them to vote (as long as they seem like a left wing voter!!).
I believe that even small differences matter greatly – often to many people.
‘Good cops’ are better to have dealing with you than ‘bad cops’.
Voting matters immensely – and always will – in that way. It is one way of making society less painful for many people.
My father always used the old line – ‘If you don’t vote, you can’t complain’; and he was a lifelong socialist (having given up on the Communist Party at age 13). The lesser of two evils is still the lesser of two evils.
Labour is not a revolutionary party and hasn’t been for decades. I doubt it ever will be again.
Reversing neoliberal market-based approaches needs revolutionary perspectives forced by the minor parties so that the accepted norm shifts left again. Kiwibank, rail, are cases in point.
People who want a fundamental reversal of key’s policies, let alone lab4, need to givetheir vote to either parliamentary left parties, or even get more extreme left parties up to approaching 1% so that parliamentary parties start poaching their policies. Or the ~1%ers even get elected themselves.
Give power to the greens and mana and labour will move left despite those in its caucus who are idiot careerists. The difference between labour and national is that national need act to make them look like a moderating force rather than looters and thieves. Labour want to do good but are too afraid. It is still a fundamental difference.
People by nature have a bias towards optimism and expecting the best outcomes. That’s why a slogan like towards a brighter future is so manipulative and cynical. Sometimes “optimistic” is exactly the same as “unrealistic”.
“DPMC’s guidance note sets out how ministers and officials should talk publicly about listed companies, stressing the importance of making any market-moving decision outside of trading hours.
Ministers should only make a major statement that could affect a listed company when trading is open when there is a compelling reason.”
Opposition unbound, with National caught in the worst of both worlds.
So the Asset Sale Opposition Leadership mantle Race begins again: Which Labour or Green or NZ First MP will be the first to talk the price down?
Posted this on Sunday night, reposting now to catch a few more peeps, relevant since we are talking about more manufacturing job losses in NZ.
Rolls Royce Engines: the beauty of high value manufacturing
An amazing documentary, showing the kinds of wealth, capability and community that high tech, high added value manufacturing brings. It also makes it clear that this kind of expertise is gained over many years or decades and has to be protected and nurtured over the long term.
Oh that was lovely – incredibly beautiful, functional, high performance works of engineering and art.
Unfortunately the nagging voice of global warming in the back of my mind made it feel a bit like Pr0n
Yes, they are in the US context, but campaigning has changed – and it’s more than just flinging up a Facebook page or tweeting now and then. Buying ads on Youtube to get younger voters for example.
Target advertising messages/policy discussions at the medium for each market;
target each speech to the audience;
get as much facetime as possible;
release news statements to frame discussion as soon as possible – lead events don’t just react (or even worse do nothing);
involve your party membership in electioneering activities;
maintain contact with voters who show interest;
keep initiating contact with voters who don’t;
use party activists to register electors in target areas;
get the vote out on the day.
more Habbadashery-Why do we look at injustice? Why do we tolerate wrong? Destruction and violence are before us; strife and conflict abounds. Therefore the law is paralyzed (aware of the backlog in the courts since “reform school”), and justice rarely prevails.
-You have made men like fish in the sea, like sea creatures that have no ruler. The wicked foe pulls all of them up with hooks, he catches them in his net. he gathers them up in his dragnet; for by his net he lives in luxury and enjoys the choicest food. is he to keep on emptying his net, destroying nations without mercy?
“Woe to him who piles up stolen goods and makes himself wealthy by extortion! How long must this go on? Will not your debtors suddenly arise? Will they not wake and make you tremble? Then you will become their victim. For the revelation awaits an appointed time; It speaks of an end and it will not prove false. Though it linger, wait for it;
“Nourish the cock, but do not sacrifice him, since he is sacred to the sun and the moon”(forget the greek I think it was)
-every pebble is an exception so Blam Blam blame?
“Allegory is life giving and and biblical “literalism” as meant today, is life denying”. Now all these things happened unto them for examples and they are written for our admonition.
(I’m not looking for a New England) William Wilberforce read the KJ every day (obviously I don’t) and had it’s cadences and rhythms running through his veins= Obama-care
meanwhile, now the Commerce Commission are under attack (for being a “consumer Watchdog” ??? wtf) by Investors and their fund managers
Greed! was a discussion I had with a tangata whenua tane the other day; “No Limit to it”, he asserted. Pushin’ buttons? see the supermarkets after the New Year break? people were clearly emaciated and needed some more chippies and soft drink.
A personal note to Colonial Viper regarding your comment yesterday:
“Like “freedom fries”? Not sure if this is where you are coming from, but I have a dislike of the American-style use of ‘freedom’ as a word pseudo-representing all that is good and wholesome and God-fearing in the world.”
For a first hand account of what it is like to lose virtually all of one’s “freedoms” at the hands of a dictatorial regime, contact an amiable acquaintance of mine, Kim Dotcom.
Hi AmaKiwi. For real ‘democracy’ and ‘freedom’ we have to move beyond a sole ballot box focus to that of broader democratic institutions, checks and balances (which might include binding referenda), and values throughout society.
Specifically applied to the Kim Dotcom case, the police and the SIS need to be acting in ways which uphold democracy, natural justice and due process, not offshore corporatism.
Ouch. Didn’t really expect that the server would very slowly resize it’s disk footprint because I wanted more CPU. But it is ok now after the site was offline for an hour.
I’ll see if that fixes the peaking issues from todays dose of bots.
Tommorrow’s task is less of a problem – round two of the backup systems.
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Two years into New Zealand’s Labour-led government, the long-delayed Zero Carbon Bill became law on 7 November. Passed essentially unanimously, the lengthy public debates and political manoeuvring faded away until the final passage was even anticlimactic: Flipping through the @nzstuff@DomPost I was starting to wonder if I’d dreamt ...
Now the Zero Carbon Bill is law, what's next? Obviously, the ETS changes currently before select committee are going to be the next battleground. But we're also going to get a good idea of where we're going, and if the progress the Zero Carbon Act promises is good enough, during ...
Grant PearceThe effects of the current Australian bushfires in New South Wales and Queensland (and also again in California) are devastating and far-reaching. To date, the fires have resulted in several lives being lost and many homes and properties destroyed. Here in New Zealand, the impacts have been only ...
A passing comment in a post the other day about the labour force participation rates of older people prompted me to pull down the fuller data and see what we could see about various participation rates over the decades since the HLFS began in 1986. As it happens, the ...
Distract And Divert: The rise of what we have come to call “Identity Politics” represents the ideological manifestation of the ruling class’s objective need to destroy class politics, and of the middle-class’s subjective need to justify their participation in the process.THE RELIEF of the ruling class can only be imagined. ...
"I saw a newspaper picture,From the political campaignA woman was kissing a child,Who was obviously in pain.She spills with compassion,As that young child'sFace in her hands she gripsCan you imagine all that greed and avariceComing down on that child's lips?" ...
Dr Matt Boyd, Prof Michael Baker, Prof Nick WilsonThe Global Health Security Index which considers pandemic threats has just been published. Unfortunately, NZ scores approximately half marks (54/100), coming in 35th in the world rankings – far behind Australia. This poor result suggests that the NZ Government needs to ...
The Zero Carbon Act is inadequate, with a weak methane target designed to give farmers a free ride. But it turns out it could have been worse: Climate Change Minister James Shaw was so desperate to get National on board, he wanted to gut that target, and leave it in ...
The Herald reprints an Australian story on a couple of tragic deaths in Bali from drinking cocktails that had methanol in them. The story argues that methanol is likely the result of home distillation. But what the young tourists were experiencing was far from a hangover. They’d consumed a toxic cocktail ...
Last month, the police announced a trial of specialist roaming armed units, which would drive round (poor, brown) areas in armoured SUVs, armed to the teeth. When they announced the trial, they told us it was about having armed police "ready to attend major incidents at any time if needed". ...
Spain went to the polls today in the second elections this year, after the Socialists (who had come to power in a confidence vote, then gone to the polls in April) rejected the offer of a coalition with the left-wing PoDemos, and instead decided to gamble n a better outcome ...
A couple of days ago I attended (and spoke at) the University of Waikato’s “LearnFest” event. There were lots of talks and sessions on very diverse aspects of teaching, mostly at tertiary level. One was by Myra Williamson from Te Piringa Faculty of Law here at Waikato, on Contract Cheating ...
There will be a transit of Mercury – the planet Mercury will pass across the face of the Sun – taking place at sunrise in New Zealand on Tuesday, 12th November. It was by observing such an event 250 years ago that James Cook and his scientist colleagues were able ...
Since becoming the world’s first openly transexual mayor and member of parliament, Georgina Beyer has been recognised as a trailblazer for trans rights. Daphna Whitmore talks with her about where she sees the current trans movement We start out talking about legislation the government put on hold that would have ...
If FFNZ really put their faith in “Top Medical Journals” they would now be amending their billboards to recognise new research results. Image from FFNZ but updated to agree with the latest research. ...
National Messiah? Chris Luxon identifies himself as an evangelical Christian. If he is genuine in this self-characterisation, then he will take every opportunity his public office provides to proselytise on behalf of his faith. He will also feel obliged to bear witness against beliefs and practices he believes to be ...
I'm going to make a Reckless Prediction™ that the Tories have 'topped out' in the 'poll of polls' / Britain Elects multipoll tracker at about 38%, and in the next week we will start to see Labour creep up on them.In fact, we might just be seeing the start of ...
by The Council of Disobedient Women Lizzie Marvelly: “I may have missed this… has @afterellen gone all terf-y? Or am I reading something incorrectly? “ https://twitter.com/LizzieMarvelly/status/1191840059105742849 After Ellen is a lesbian website that is unashamedly pro-lesbian, as you’d expect. So why is Ms Marvelly so bothered about lesbians having their ...
Did you know there once was a time when it was illegal to be a gypsy (aka Romani) in Britain?That was between 1530, when the Egyptians Act was passed, and 1856, when it was repealed.Amongst other things, the act forbade the entry of 'Egyptians' into England, ordered those already there ...
Some days I sit and think, “what will I write…?” What do you say when you get to 1000 posts? Maybe you just start where you are, diverge to where this all began, then offer a collection of reader’s favourite posts, and a few of your own? (And throw in ...
Counter-Puncher: The “activists” and “radicals” (his own words) from the Indian community who took such strong exception to Shane Jones’ remarks about Immigration NZ’s treatment of arranged marriages, may end up bitterly regretting their intervention. Jones is not the sort of person who turns the other cheek to his critics.SHANE ...
In the spirit of Remember, remember the fifth of November, let's keep this in mind FOREVER.
Oh dear. Extraordinary interview on PM with Andrew Bridgen and @EvanHD just now. Bridgen was defending Jacob Rees Mogg’s Grenfell comments. Evan asked him if JRM had meant to say he would have left ...
Collision Course? In conditions of ideological white-out, the international bankers’ “Woop-Woop! Pull Up!” warning may have come too late to save global capitalism.WHAT DOES IT MEAN when international bankers are more willing to embrace radical solutions than our politicians and their electors? At both the International Monetary Fund and the ...
Pertussis (whooping cough) is a conundrum. It is a disease that was described hundreds of years ago and the bacteria that causes it (Bordetella pertussis) isolated in 1906. We have had vaccines for about 80 years but this disease is defiant in the face of human immunity. I wanted to ...
The Zero Carbon Bill has just passed its third reading, uanimously. In the end, National supported it - but we all know they'll turn around and gut it the moment they regain power. Meanwhile, I guess ACT's David Seymour didn't even bother to show up. I am on record as ...
Dr Lindsay Robertson, Dr Jerram Bateman, Professor Janet HoekMembers of the public health community hold divergent views on how access to vaping products or electronic nicotine delivery systems (ENDS) products should be arranged. Some believe ENDS should be as widely available as smoked tobacco and argue for liberal ...
When the Police were trying to cover up for the National Party over Dirty Politics, they went all-in with their abuses of power. They illegally search Nicky Hager's house, violating his journalistic privilege and invading his privacy. They unlawfully acquired Hager's bank records. They did the same to left-wing blogger ...
Last month, in response to a wave of protests by Extinction Rebellion, the British government purported to ban their protests from the whole of London. It was a significant interference with the freedoms of expression and assembly, and another sign of the country's decline into tyranny. But now, a court ...
Last year, the Inspector-General of Intelligence and Security reported on significant problems with the intelligence warrant system. While they were unwilling to declare any warrant "irregular" (meaning unlawful) due to the recent law change, they were also not willing to give the system a clean bill of health. Now, they've ...
The National Party has come out in support of encouraging greater vaccination uptake. But it sure isn’t the way I’d do it. National’s suggested docking the benefits of those on benefit whose kids aren’t keeping up with their vaccinations. Some in National have suggested extending that to payments under Working ...
Feeding The Flames: It is simply not enough to demand an end to “corruption”, or “inequality”, or the overbearing influence of the authorities in Beijing. These are just “lowest common denominator” demands: the sort of slogans that pull people onto the streets. They are not a plan.WHERE’S THE PLAN? Across ...
The labour market statistics have been released, and unemployment has risen to 4.2%. There are 115,000 unemployed - 11,000 fewer than when Labour took office. In that time the minimum wage has gone up by $2 an hour, which shows that the right's fears about increases causing unemployment are simply ...
The Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee has called for submissions on Andrew Little's tyrannicalTerrorism Suppression (Control Orders) Bill. Normally I encourage participation in the democratic process. I am not doing so in this case. Instead, I encourage all of you to boycott this submissions process, and to post ...
Climate Explained is a collaboration between The Conversation, Stuff and the New Zealand Science Media Centre to answer your questions about climate change.If you have a question you’d like an expert to answer, please send it to climate.change@stuff.co.nzIf tiny concentrations of carbon dioxide can hold enough heat ...
Aviation is one of the fastest growing sources of greenhouse gas emissions, and within it, one of the fastest sources is elite travel: billionaires flitting around the world in their private jets, spewing excessive pollution into the atmosphere just so they can avoid mixing with us dirty peasants. But in ...
That's what we face if we don't stop climate change, according to a warning from 11,000 scientists:The world’s people face “untold suffering due to the climate crisis” unless there are major transformations to global society, according to a stark warning from more than 11,000 scientists. “We declare clearly and unequivocally ...
by Phil Duncan Here’s just a few of the kind of threats issued day in and day out against gender-critical women – feminists, marxists, etc – overwhelmingly by MEN (albeit men identifying as women). “Kill all Terfs”. “Shoot a Terf today”. “All terfs deserve to be shot in the head”. ...
This is the third of the synopses of parts of the opening chapter of John Smith’s Imperialism in the 21st Century (New York, Monthly Review Press, 2016). The synopsis and commentary below is written by Phil Duncan. Unlike the humble cup of coffee and t-shirt that we looked at in ...
Tom MooreTraditionally a food source and cutting tool, freshwater mussels/kākahi are now widely valued as water filters that help clean our waterbodies and maintain ecosystem health throughout Aotearoa. The improvement they provide in water quality can make it easier for other animals to live in streams and rivers, as ...
And to think he gave all the potential goodwill away with that moronic, cult-like statement (repeated ad nauseam by many National hardliners) that Key is quite simply “the greatest PM we ever had”…Installation complete: this was nothing ...
The Zero Carbon Bill is back in the House today for its second reading. While this isn't the final stage, its still effectively D-Day for the bill. Because today, at around 5pm, is when we're going to find out if it has a majority, whether National will support it or ...
Winston Peters is in court today, suing a bunch of former Minister and civil servants over their pre-election leak of his superannuation repayment. He's characterised the leak as malicious, and said that it is repugnant that his information was passed on to Ministers to use for political advantage. And he's ...
Murray CoxDo I have to finish my favourite genome? That’s an often-asked question. Geneticists generally strive to produce high-quality genomes that sequence every last gene, making full use of the state-of-the-art technologies coming on stream. Sequencing DNA means determining the order of the four chemical building blocks – called ...
Transformative Politics: The idea is to turn each recipient into an unwitting accomplice in their own transformation. From interested observer to hyped-up activist, sharing our messages promiscuously with ‘friends’. You’ll be part of an ever-expanding circulatory system, Jennifer, for the ideas that will win us the election.”JENNIFER SKITTERED her chair ...
The boycott is a fundamental tool of protest. By choosing who we buy from, we can send a message, and hopefully change corporate behaviour. Historically, boycotts have been effective, for example over apartheid in South Africa and Israel, in forcing divestment from Myanmar, and in ending bus segregation in the ...
Jan Rivers spoke at the Abortion Legislation Select Committee in favour of the bill, but in opposition to calls from other submitters to exchange the word ‘woman’ for ‘person’ throughout the bill. Jan is a supporter of the feminist group Speak Up For Women and has recently written an excellent ...
I checked my traffic stats:I was intrigued by 'monica29' - who was this very dedicated individual? I clicked on the link, to be greeted with ...Ho, hum.Spreadin' the word, spreadin' the word. Doesn't matter who hears it, as long as it gets out there. ...
There have been three polls since the election was announced, and I will shamelessly steal YouGov / UK Polling Report's Anthony Wells' summary of them:Survation – CON 34%, LAB 26%, LDEM 19%, BREX 12%, GRN 1% Ipsos MORI – CON 41%, LAB 24%, LDEM 20%, BREX 7%, GRN 3% YouGov ...
The following article is translated from Lutte Ouvrière, the weekly newspaper of the organisation usually known by the same name in France. When, for the second time this year, Chilean President Piñera announced an increase in the price of Metro tickets from 800 to 830 pesos, students in the high ...
Today, a worker contacted me asking if she could go to the police over her employer stealing thousands of dollars from her in unpaid wages. The employer also did not pay this worker’s taxes or student loan which amounts to tax fraud. As a workers rights activist, who founded the ...
Signed, Sealed, Delivered, They're Yours: Is there any person more vulnerable than a jilted lover on the rebound? Or, anything more certain than that the charmer, the predator, the glib spinner of lies and promises will seek such broken people out? Yes, of course, he will love every one of ...
Though Jonathan Romain is a fairly high profile Rabbi, writing in several papers and popping up on TV and the radio, this story doesn't seem to have made it to the Guardian yet, so I'll take the unusual step of linking the Stephen Pollard edited Jewish Chronicle:Rabbi Dr Jonathan Romain ...
There's an election afoot, and that is when noted opinion formers such as myself get to make wild fools of ourselves by pretending we have the faintest idea what will happen.So, here is my absurdly optimistic prediction:Labour - 285Conservative - 262SNP - 53Lib Dems - 20PC - 5Ireland - 18 ...
Image Credit:Increase Social Media Traffic & Website Traffic I notice a few regulars no longer allow public access to the site counters. This may happen accidentally when the blog format is altered. If your ...
Belinda CridgeI was reading my son a story last night. A great tale of derring-do of five mountaineers scaling the Matterhorn for the first time. One in the party had tried six times previously and failed, this was the last attempt before winter closed another season. They tried a ...
As introduced, the Zero Carbon Bill included an expansive secrecy clause, which would have covered virtually all decisions by the Climate Change Commission over our most important policy area. The Ministry for the Environment admitted this was a mistake (or as they put it, an "oversight"), and the select committee ...
Rachael Shaw, Victoria University of WellingtonWhen we think about animals storing food, the image that usually comes to mind is a squirrel busily hiding nuts for the winter. We don’t usually think of a small songbird taking down an enormous invertebrate, tearing it into pieces and hiding these titbits ...
. . NZ First’s success in putting the euthenasia bill to a public referenda may not be the victory they believe it to be. They may even have sounded the death-knell for a second Labour-NZ First-Green coalition. On 23 July this year, NZ First MP, Jenny Marcroft, submitted a Supplementary ...
Interesting contrasting pictures in the Guardian:Corbyn gets the classic positive shot - low angle and a clear background, making him look authoritative (of course, being Corbyn, he doesn't do authoritative very well).Where as Johnson gets pictured with children at some sort of mad-hatters' tea party:Begging the question, who is the ...
Paternalism is contentious. Arguments for state action to protect us from ourselves are fraught. I come down pretty heavily on the anti-paternalism side of the argument, but I’ve heard respectable defences of paternalism. But policy around vaccination is hardly paternalistic. There’s a clear market failure that could be pointed to ...
I’ve been reading Jules Verne’s novel Twenty thousand leagues under the sea, considered as one of the very earliest science fiction stories. In brief, Monsieur Aronnax and a couple of sidekicks are taken prisoner by Captain Nemo and his mysterious crew and treated to an underwater voyage around the world ...
The climate crisis is going to mean some pretty big changes in our country, both from its impacts and the policies required to address them. Most obviously, whole suburbs are going to be underwater by 2100, meaning people and businesses are going to have to relocate to higher ground. But ...
Yesterday a dairy company was fined $483,000 for repeatedly failing to report listeria in its facility. Its a serious fine for a serious crime: listeria is a serious disease, and they were effectively trying to kill people with it. But there's another story hidden in there, and its not a ...
Gay men see the excesses of trans activism and are increasingly speaking out. A new Facebook group addressing ‘gender identity’ and contemporary trans activism has been set up for gay men, by gay men. The following is the group’s Statement of Intent, Group Rules, and link to the group for ...
Darroch Ball, Spokesperson for Justice New Zealand First is proud that a key Coalition Agreement commitment which will provide for a more transparent and effective criminal justice system has been realised. Legislation to establish the Criminal Cases Review Commission, an independent body focused on identifying and responding to possible miscarriages of ...
"Today we have made a choice that will leave a legacy... I hope that means that future generations will see that we, in New Zealand, were on the right side of history." - Jacinda Ardern, Third Reading of the Zero Carbon Bill ...
Darroch Ball, New Zealand First List MP A Member’s bill has been proposed that would provide income tax exemptions for all New Zealand Defence Force (NZDF) personnel while on operational deployment overseas. The Income Tax (Exemption for Salary or Wages of NZDF Members on Active Deployment) Amendment Bill proposed by New Zealand First ...
Rt Hon Winston Peters, New Zealand First Leader New Zealand First is proud to have brought common sense to the Climate Change Response (Zero Carbon) Amendment Bill, which passed its final reading in Parliament today. Party Leader Rt Hon Winston Peters says months of hard work went into negotiating a balanced ...
Jenny Marcroft MP, Spokesperson for Health New Zealand First has listened to calls to recognise paramedics as registered health professionals under the Health Practitioners’ Competence Assurance Act (the Act).Today, the Coalition Government announced plans for paramedics to be registered as health practitioners under the Act, and the establishment of a ...
We began the week by commemorating the New Zealand Wars and celebrating a major increase in the number of teachers. Then, we were busy supporting offenders into work and getting our rail back on track after years of underinvestment. And that's just the start! ...
In October I was sworn in as the Mayor of Lower Hutt.It’s the privilege of my life to serve Hutt people as their Mayor. There is something really special to be able to serve the community where I was raised, and where I live. ...
Rt Hon Winston Peters, Deputy Prime Minister, Minister for Racing Racing Minister Winston Peters met with Korea Racing Authority Chairperson Nak Soon Kim in Seoul today to discuss closer cooperation between the New Zealand and Korean horse racing industries. As part of the visit to the Seoul Racecourse, Mr Peters witnessed ...
Hon Shane Jones, Minister for Regional Economic Development The Provincial Growth Fund (PGF) is investing $10 million to establish Otago as the centre of New Zealand’s creative digital industry over the next ten years, Regional Development Minister Shane Jones announced today. “The initiative will bring us closer to the vision of ...
Hon Shane Jones, Minister for Regional Economic Development The Provincial Growth Fund (PGF)’s skills and employment programme will help young Otago people into long-term forestry careers, Regional Economic Development Minister Shane Jones announced today. Te Ara Mahi will invest $63,000 in the 2020 school year to support eight 17 and 18 ...
Hon Shane Jones, Minister for Regional Economic Development The Provincial Growth Fund (PGF) will support local plans to revitalise and stimulate economic development opportunities in Otago, Regional Economic Development Minister Shane Jones has announced. The four Regional Economic Development Ministers have approved an in-principle investment of $19.9 million towards the region’s ...
Mark Patterson, Spokesperson for Primary Industries New Zealand First is pleased to have received the Technical Advisory Group (TAG) report on the Coalition Government’s Mycoplasma bovis eradication efforts, which shows significant progress in the fight against the disease. New Zealand First Spokesperson for Primary Industries, Mark Patterson, says the report’s findings ...
Hon Shane Jones, Minister for Regional Economic Development Hon David Parker, Minister for Trade and Export Growth The Provincial Growth Fund (PGF) is investing to support economic growth opportunities for Otago’s engineering and manufacturing sectors, Regional Development Minister Shane Jones and Trade and Export Minister David Parker announced today. Almost $20 million ...
Rt Hon Winston Peters, Deputy Prime Minister, Minister of Foreign Affairs Foreign Minister Winston Peters and his South Korean counterpart, Kang Kyung-wha, discussed in Seoul today opportunities to work more closely in the Pacific and the situation on the Korean Peninsula. Mr Peters and Minister Kang confirmed New Zealand and the ...
Hon Shane Jones, Minister for Regional Economic Development Hon Nanaia Mahuta, Minister for Māori Development The three marae in the historic Parihaka Pa complex in Taranaki have been upgraded to high speed broadband with the support of the Provincial Growth Fund (PGF), Regional Economic Development Minister Shane Jones announced today. “Connecting the ...
Hon Ron Mark, Minister of Defence Minister of Defence Ron Mark will today launch the Advancing Pacific Partnerships 2019 Defence Assessment during a speech at Te Papa. The Assessment outlines how Defence will partner with our Pacific Island neighbours and invest in Pacific regional security architecture. The Plan aligns with the Coalition ...
A new Provincial Growth Fund investment could create about 80 new jobs in Gisborne over the next two years, turning a local small business into a “beacon of employment” in the process. Regional Economic Development Parliamentary Under-Secretary Fletcher Tabuteau said the PGF’s Te Ara Mahi funding stream would provide $1.6m ...
Rt Hon Winston Peters, Deputy Prime Minister, Minister of Foreign Affairs Minister of Foreign Affairs Winston Peters will travel to the Republic of Korea and Japan next week. “The Republic of Korea and Japan are two of New Zealand’s closest partners in the region with whom we share common values and ...
Rt Hon Winston Peters, Deputy Prime Minister, Minister of Foreign Affairs Minister of Foreign Affairs Winston Peters has announced today that New Zealand is leading a police support mission in Bougainville as the region prepares to vote in a non-binding referendum on its political future. “New Zealand has accepted an invitation ...
New Zealand First MP Shane Jones is defending Immigration New Zealand (INZ) after it instructed officials to stop granting visas as an exception to instructions. He has also lashed out at immigrant leaders upset with the tightening of the rules, saying they had an “elevated sense of entitlement”. Members of ...
A change to the End of Life Choice Bill was passed in Parliament, meaning if politicians decide to vote for the law it must be approved by the public first. A binding referendum was a condition insisted on by New Zealand First, and Jenny Marcroft’s supplementary order paper (SOP) successfully ...
Fletcher Tabuteau, Parliamentary Under-Secretary for Regional Economic Development The Provincial Growth Fund (PGF), through its skills and employment programme,Te Ara Mahi, is investing a further $1.6m into Tairāwhiti’s workforce development, said Parliamentary Under Secretary for Regional Economic Development Fletcher Tabuteau. “This PGF funding follows on from significant PGF investment earlier this ...
The panel undertaking a comprehensive review of the Resource Management Act has identified the main issues to be addressed and options for reform and is calling for feedback to inform its final report. In July the Government announced the comprehensive review of the resource management system, including the RMA - ...
An important safety valve has been added to New Zealand’s criminal justice system with the third reading of the Criminal Cases Review Commission Bill today. The Criminal Cases Review Commission (CCRC) will investigate claimed miscarriages of justice. “We’ve seen how our justice system can very occasionally get things spectacularly wrong, ...
Racing Minister Winston Peters welcomes the tabling of the Racing Industry Transition Agency (RITA) 2019 Annual Report in Parliament today. He says the 2019 Annual Report marks the point when New Zealand’s racing industry’s decline was arrested and a turnaround started. RITA’s 2019 Annual Report recorded an industry net profit ...
The New Zealand Government is today sending 21 firefighters to help fight the ongoing catastrophic Australian bushfires. “The fires in Australia are in some of the toughest, most challenging conditions ever,” says Internal Affairs Minister Tracey Martin. “As of yesterday morning, there were 100 active bushfire-related incidents across Queensland and ...
More frontline support for schools through a new education agency, as part of a redesigned Ministry of Education More support for principals and school boards including through a new centre of leadership and local leadership advisor roles New independent disputes panels for parents and students Management of school property ...
The Government’s reform of the Tomorrow’s Schools system is a watershed moment in education and an opportunity to create meaningful change for ākonga Māori and their whānau, Associate Education Minister Kelvin Davis said today. “Last year through Kōrero Mātauranga | Education Conversation, Māori teachers, parents, ākonga, whānau, hapū and iwi ...
Infrastructure Minister is welcoming the first of many updated project pipelines from the newly established New Zealand Infrastructure Commission today. The New Zealand Infrastructure Commission, Te Waihanga, has released an expanded pipeline of major capital projects – another crucial step towards delivering better infrastructure outcomes. “The first iteration of the ...
Tougher gun laws designed to improve public safety through firearms prohibition orders are proposed in a new document released for public input. Police Minister Stuart Nash says firearms prohibition orders (FPOs) would give new powers to Police to ensure high-risk individuals come nowhere near firearms. “We have already prohibited the ...
Andy Coupe has been confirmed as TVNZ’s new Board Chair. “Mr Coupe has strong commercial and capital markets experience and TVNZ has benefited from his technical knowledge of business and finance, as well as his extensive governance experience,” the Minister of Broadcasting, Communications and Digital Media Kris Faafoi said. Andy ...
Associate Minister of Transport Julie Anne Genter today officially opened a separated pathway, following the completion of the Kaiwharawhara Stream bridge, which will improve safety for cyclists and pedestrians along Hutt Road. The $6.8m Hutt Road project provides a separated path for cycling and pedestrians, the replacement of informal parking ...
Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters today announced the appointment of career diplomat Si’alei van Toor as New Zealand’s next Ambassador to Russia. “I’m pleased to appoint Ms van Toor to this position. She brings a wealth of experience to the role having previously served as Senior Trade Adviser to the ...
The Treasury’s 2019 Half Year Economic and Fiscal Update (HYEFU) will be released on Wednesday December 11, Finance Minister Grant Robertson says. The Coalition Government will publish the 2020 Budget Policy Statement at the same time, outlining the priorities for Budget 2020. Further details on arrangements for the release will ...
A new initiative to better support small businesses through hands-on mentoring and advice has been launched by the Minister for Small Business. The first event in the Kiwi Business Boost series of regional workshops and online tools has been launched in Wairoa by Stuart Nash. “The Business Boost initiative combines ...
The latest Quarterly Connectivity Report shows that more and more New Zealanders are moving to Ultra-fast Broadband (UFB), with Rolleston having the highest uptake at 74 per cent, as at the end of September. “This means that nearly three quarters of Rolleston’s households and businesses have moved to ultra-fast services. ...
The passing of the Climate Change Response (Zero Carbon) Amendment Bill will help ensure a safe planet for our kids and grandkids, the Minister for Climate Change James Shaw said today. The landmark legislation which provides a framework to support New Zealanders to prepare for, and adapt to, the effects ...
The review of Oranga Tamariki practice around the planned uplift of a Hastings baby in May shows significant failings by the Ministry and that the planned and funded changes to shift from a child crisis service to a proper care and protection service need to be accelerated, Children’s Minister Tracey ...
Education Minister Chris Hipkins has wished students the best of luck for this year’s NCEA and New Zealand Scholarship exams which start tomorrow. Around 140,000 students will have participated in 119 NCEA and New Zealand Scholarship exams by the end of the exam period on 3 December. “I want to ...
Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters today announced the appointment of Bede Corry as New Zealand’s next High Commissioner to the United Kingdom. “The appointment of a senior diplomat to this important role underlines the significance New Zealand places on our relationship with the United Kingdom,” said Mr Peters. “The United ...
An innovative approach to boosting the number of frontline Police has seen 20 new officers graduate from one of the uncommon training wings in Auckland. Police Minister Stuart Nash says the graduation of 20 constables today means that 1,765 new Police officers have been deployed since the coalition government took ...
Corrections Minister Kelvin Davis says the 1.2 million hours of community work completed by offenders in the last financial year has helped local communities right across the country. “Community work sentences are a great way for people to pay something positive back to society. There is a massive benefit to ...
"A pathway for Police in leadership with Iwi Māori, to achieve the aspirations of Māori whānau." Police launch of Te Huringa o Te Tai, Pipitea Marae, Thorndon Quay, Wellington Nau mai, haere mai. Tēnā koutou, tēnā koutou, ka nui te mihi, ki a koutou. Hello everyone, warm greetings to you all. ...
Working New Zealanders are getting more in their back pockets under the Coalition Government’s economic plan. Stats NZ data today shows average weekly ordinary time earnings are up by $83 since the Government took office. This shows that working New Zealanders are getting higher take-home pay, and that employers are ...
The Government is supporting schools to cut down their energy consumption and reduce environmental impacts, with a quarter of all schools having their lights replaced with LEDs, a sustainability contestable fund and a plan to improve the environmental sustainability of all schools in the future. Education Minister Chris Hipkins and ...
Tourism Minister Kelvin Davis heads to China on Friday to lead the New Zealand Government presence at the China-New Zealand Year of Tourism closing ceremony. The ceremony will take place at Canton Tower in Guangzhou on Sunday 10 November. “The Year of Tourism has been mutually beneficial for both New ...
Should we plan for drought or deluge and how is CO2 released from the ocean’s floor? Several climate change projects were given a boost in the latest Marsden Fund investment of $83.6 million, Research, Science and Innovation Minister Megan Woods said today. “Climate change is long-term challenge that requires out-of-the-box ...
Leaders of 16 countries negotiating the Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership (RCEP) have announced the completion of negotiation on the text as well as agreement on virtually all market access issues between 15 countries. The leaders said they will work with India to resolve its outstanding concerns in a way that ...
Civil Defence Minister Hon Peeni Henare says World Tsunami Awareness Day today (5 November) is a chance for all New Zealanders to learn more about the tsunami risk in our regions and the right actions to take to stay safe. “All of New Zealand’s coastline is at risk of tsunami. ...
New Zealand’s more than 1000 paramedics are to have their role as key frontline health professionals formally recognised and regulated in the same way as doctors and nurses, Health Minister David Clark says. The Government has agreed to regulate paramedics under the Health Practitioners Competence Assurance Act 2003. “Paramedic leaders ...
Changes to insolvency law announced by the Government today will include requirements to honour up to 50 per cent of the value of gift cards or vouchers held by consumers, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Kris Faafoi says. “When a business is insolvent, these consumers are often left out of ...
Six New Zealanders tonight received medals for their meritorious work in the frontline public service. The Public Service Medal, established by Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II, is awarded annually. “For the second year this Government has recognised public servants who have made a real difference to the lives of New ...
Minister for Trade and Export Growth David Parker heads to Shanghai today for the China International Import Expo and meetings focused on reforming the WTO. Over 90 New Zealand companies will be exhibiting at the second China International Import Expo (CIIE), which runs from 5-10 November. “China is one of New Zealand’s ...
Drivers holding a current five-year learner or restricted car or motorbike licence, expiring between 1 December 2019 and 1 December 2021, will receive an automatic two-year extension, Associate Transport Minister Julie Anne Genter announced today. Over 144,000 drivers’ time-limited licences are due to expire in the next two years; 67,000 ...
Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and Minister for Trade and Export Growth David Parker have announced the conclusion of negotiations to upgrade New Zealand’s existing free trade agreement with China. “This ensures our upgraded free trade agreement will remain the best that China has with any country,” Jacinda Ardern said. She ...
Parliamentary Under-Secretary for Regional Economic Development Fletcher Tabuteau congratulates the Ten Kiwi organisations who have been recognised for their outstanding contribution to the wellbeing and the prosperity of their communities. Economic Development New Zealand (EDNZ), announced the awards at its annual conference in Blenheim last weekend. “A special congratulations to ...
Minister for Building and Construction Jenny Salesa has welcomed the record high of 13,000 building and construction apprentices in active training with main provider the Building and Construction Industry Training Organisation (BCITO). “We are committed to reversing the long-term decline in trades training and it’s excellent to see more people ...
PHARMAC’s decision to fund a new leukaemia treatment means three new cancer medicines have now been funded so far this year, Health Minister David Clark says. From 1 December venetoclax (Venclexta) will be funded for people living with chronic lymphocytic leukaemia. Just last month funding was also confirmed for alectinib ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters has today formally gifted a white horse to Toshogu Shrine in Nikko, Japan in front of thousands of attendees at a ceremony conducted by Chief Priest Inaba. The horse named Kōmaru, which means ‘sheltered’ in Maori and ‘shining’ in Japanese, is a white 12-year-old purebred Andalusian ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters has named diplomat Martin Harvey as New Zealand’s next High Commissioner to Canada. “Canada is one of New Zealand’s closest and longstanding international partners,” said Mr Peters. “Our close friendship is underpinned by our shared democratic values, history and our parliamentary traditions. As Commonwealth countries and ...
Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Kris Faafoi has today announced the appointment of Jane Wrightson as Retirement Commissioner. “Jane has strong leadership, management and governance skills which will help champion improved financial capability for all New Zealanders and provide advice on retirement income policy issues,” Kris Faafoi said. Jane Wrightson ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters and his Japanese counterpart Toshimitsu Motegi announced a plan last night to cooperate more closely in the Pacific, as part of the strong and ambitious relationship between the two countries. “Japan is one of New Zealand’s most important partners and closest friends. My discussions with Minister ...
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Editor’s Note: Here below is a list of the main issues currently under discussion in New Zealand and links to media coverage.New Zealand Parliament Buildings, Wellington, New Zealand.Today’s content by Dr Bryce Edwards.Education Audrey Young (Herald): Why Education Minister Hipkins has shot to the top of the ...
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Good morning and welcome to The Bulletin. In today’s edition: Big changes coming for how schools are run, highly anticipated OCR decision coming today, and a clear-eyed look at the protests up Ōwairaka/Mt Albert.The government has set up a fight with a dangerous political constituency – highly involved parents at affluent ...
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Te Reo Putake yesterday in TS added a good big dose of spice to the “Internal Debate” that is consuming the Labour Party members and supporters.
The very long string of comments focused on TRP’s adamant assertion that there will be a “UNANIMOUS VOTE OF CONFIDENCE IN SHEARER IN CAUCUS” next month.
TRP strongly predicated this assertion on a few points.
The core one was that Labour will definitely win under Shearer and that all the Cunliffe faction are sucking-up in the hope of ministerial positions.
Friends, the relatively small recent movements in the polls show otherwise. We are no better off than when we lost in 2008. We would be better off if Phil had stayed. IMO. This is despite Key &co continually shooting themselves in both feet. The repeated trumpeting that there is a significant poll rise is just hype. Deluding ourselves will achieve nothing.
http://www.colmarbrunton.co.nz/images/ONE_News_Colmar_Brunton_Poll_report_24-28_Nov_2012.pdf. http://www.roymorgan.com/news/polls/2012/4847/
TPR’s next messaging is that “It’s policy that makes good government, not a slick leader.”
While a less than capable and polished Leader would be a secondary issue if there was a front bench free to communicate new policy, that is just not the case at present. Since 2008 we have tried to make new policies the plank for the leader to gain popularity. We are using policy only to underpin a less-than-slick leadership strategy for over five years. And putting policy in that diminished role has failed.
TRP then repeats the mantra that the 2014 election in in the bag, that it is Labour’s to loose. “And unless Shearer does something spectacularly stupid, he will be the next PM”.
Sleep-walking to victory. It is our turn to govern. The Nats will loose, we do not need to win! Don’t rock the boat boy and girls, we can sail into the Treasury benches if we paddle very quietly!
TRP then says that because he, TRP, cannot see any evidence of anyone throwing their hat is the ring then it is not happening. This stance suggests to me that TRP is a very well connected insider, possibly on the NZ Council or a similar lofty position.
The members do not come into TRP’s Wellington centred reckoning. However, they are telling their MPs the same thing they have been saying for the past eight months: the current leadership approach has not won the imagination of the membership, of the 800,000 that did not vote nor of the voting public. The membership is saying there must be a change.
We need a very wide change at the top, not merely the overdue retirement of King, Goff and Mallard to which TRP alludes. That change has to be in ATTITUDE towards reform as well as in personnel. The current attitude is damaging the party.
The serious concerns of the membership about the wider leadership’s approach to policy and to winning in 2014 drove the divisions at the Conference. The Conference was only the start of the reform process, not the end. The membership wants those reforms to be advanced, not snuffed. The membership see a robust leadership debate road-show as a critical part of this reform movement.
Khandalla Viper – I totally agree with your analysis. And especially about the oft-repeated mantra ” the 2014 election in in the bag, that it is Labour’s to lose”.
That is just what WILL happen if Labour does not change – both attitude, and the people at the top – Labour will lose yet again. And both our country and our people will suffer.
Come election year, the msm will turn against Shearer, Shon Key will “charm” the electorate again (and the electorate will fall for it !), the 800,000-odd who didn’t vote in 2011 won’t vote in 2014 and there might even be a larger number of non-voters, and the belief that National voters will somehow go to Labour because they don’t like Nat policies is misguided at best. National voters like being in power – and they never vote for Labour ! So they head for the polling booths en masse, and Labour voters stay at home. Its happened before, and it will happen again – if Labour does not change now.
“the 800,000-odd who didn’t vote in 2011 won’t vote in 2014”
That no party has stepped up to the plate to capture this vote bemuses me.
A huge opportunity wasted. If Craig can get the loony religious right to turn out, why not a party from the left aimed squarely at those disenfranchised from the system.
I had a plan, sent it to the Greens, twice, but heard nothing from them, though of course, I’m still willing to chat to Mr Servian in Hamilton West. 😉
And from the remainder who do vote, Labour could get 34%-35%, in an optimistic scenario. Certainly enough to hammer together a one term coalition of sorts, probably requiring NZ First. But climbing over 40%, to a result similar to what Labour achieved in both 2002 and 2005 is not a possibility that I have heard anyone even contemplating. Regardless of how many beers they have had.
As others have noted, this is a historical juncture for Labour.
Glad to see you back in formation, CV.
I’d be honoured to have you as my wingman any day Pete.
And you too, Richard Down South 😀
Great to see you back CV,
Now I can finally go back to my own name. Have a strong and battle ready New Year!
+ 1 Jenny
And + 1 Khandallaviper.
As a complete aside does anyone know where Charles Chauvel’s loyalties lie in regard to leadership?
From a comment to me on the Standard made by ‘i forget’ Chauvel ‘was’ in the Cunliffe camp but has not been demoted,
He performs well in the house and has the type of presence,(future leadership material), when on His feet speaking that has National Ministers cowering,
My view is that it isn’t important which particular faction the individual MP’s side with, more importantly is the willingness of the individual MP’s to vote to ‘trigger’ the party wide leadership February,
Should that occur, and i have my doubts, then whoever wins such a vote should be said to be the party’s choice and have the full backing of the party and it’s MP’s…
Cheers Bad12. That is interesting to note.
Hear what you’re saying regarding the relative lack of importance of the individual MPs’ factional loyalty. I agree.
The reason I’m interested is that I’m in the Ohariu electorate and have played with the idea of lending volunteer support in the next campaign. For that to happen David Shearer would need to be gone and CC would have to be one of the ones to see him off with a cheery wave.
I’m not a Labour party member and have almost completely lost faith in the party, while being increasingly Green and Mana. However, these are desparate times and you have to be practical so IF there were changes to the leadership and some solid and radical policy was announced I’d stand by them, as a voter and a practical supporter. It’s still a long and dreary wait till 2014 and much can change in that time so at this point I’m not holding my breath.
To my undying shame as a Party Member i trudged the miles stuffing letterboxes to aid the election of the Lange/Douglas fiasco,
There are still what seems a majority in the Labour Caucus who when the subject is broached nod sagely and intone with the utmost wisdom that what was inflicted upon the working class of New Zealand at the time ”had to happen”,
I stuck with Labour right up to the point where the Clark Government denied beneficiary dependent families the same tax credits as were given to the upper middle class,
I am now a Green Party Member and while my intentions this far out from 2014 are to vote Green i may be swayed by how close Mana can come to unseating Flavell, the Parliament could use the voice of Annette Sykes,
Should Sykes unseat Flavell the % of party votes should rise for Mana and if there was a chance of Mana gaining a third MP from the party vote they may well get mine,
Hope Metiria doesn’t read this or i am in trouble LOLZ, the above would of course depend upon the Green vote leading up to the 2014 election not only holding up but rising to at least bring one more Green MP into the house…
I must have missed the “cowering” part when I watch Parliament. Chauval is often set up for a laugh.
Have you never watched the likes of Housing Minister Heatley when under fire in the house,
He definitely cowers and looks to all extents and purposes like a small rodent looking for a hole in the floor to nip into…
yes but that is not down to the actions of chauvel..heatley was born cowering..
..and as a person who has done commentaries on questiontime for some years..
..like the rest of the front bench..chauvel has not particularly impressed..
..(the best performer in labour is cunnliffe..hands down..he makes national ministers nervous..and nails them with cold/hard intellect/logic..)
..there is of course humour to be had from watching genter from the greens vs brownlee..
..it is a mouse vs. elephant kinda conflict..
..and i noted in an end of year summary that the mouse seems able to make the elephant bellow in distress on cue/at will..
..and as others have said more eloquently..this is a crossroads for labour..
..and yes..i also fear the party leadership is just planning on that sleepwalk to victory..
..which if successful..but without the needed policy u-turns on fighting poverty etc..
..they will be worse than useless..
..and like a previous commenter i have gone from a life-long labour voter..to green..to mana..
..and that because harawira seems to be the only one advocating concrete-policy to end poverty etc..
..why is labour scared of coming up with strong policies..and arguing them now..?
..i agree..that in tweedle-dee/tweedledum decades/govts like we have recently had/endured..that policy had to be kept hidden until just before the election..(‘cos tweedle could nick from tweedle..)
..but i really don’t think national are going to steal a brace of policies aimed at ending poverty..eh..?
..so i think that historical reality/way of doing things can be safely put to one side..eh..?
..and really..for a toxic govt such as this one – doing all they are doing that so many hate..(83% opposed to asset-sales…)..
..for labour to be smug/complacent/positively spinning the fact they are stuck down where they are in the polls..
..is self-delusion of a grand nature..
phillip ure..
I see nothing in those opinion polls but embarrassment for the Labour party. There’s spin, and there’s damn spin.
Regardless of being an mmp nation, low thirties, after four years of dodgy government shit, isn’t a positive endorsement of anything.
Someone in caucus must have been taking notes watching Bill English run the local economy – Do nothing and hope it picks up when other countries start spending up large again. Labour’s only chance is to forget the ‘credible alternative’ tag and make the agenda their own. Will they? If they past four years are anything to go by (save for three weeks of Goff flying solo in the election campaign) Will they f*ck.
In my brutally honest opinion, Labour’s a goner. It’s not the only party on the left, and again in my opinion, certainly not the best party on the left by a long way.
Shearer won’t be challenged, by anyone, and he’ll go on to mumble and fluster his way through every tv/house appearance all the way to 2014.
The leader is not more important than the party some will say, and they’re completely wrong. It does and will transfer into lost votes. I won’t vote for DS GR TM or any of the fuck nuggets pulling strings behind the scene, so that’s one.
That’s 2
I think TRP is right that no one will challenge in February, and that Shearer will lead Labour into the next election. The Labour caucus have shown such a remarkable lack of brains and guts that any other outcome is highly unlikely.
Labour will lose in 2014 and National will be a three term Government. Shearer will do okay in the polls up until the election campaign starts – steady or even moderately increasing from present position. The Shearerites will crow and say they were right and everyone else was wrong.
When the public get a look at Shearer during the debates they will baulk at the prospect of electing a PM who can’t string a sentence together and run back to John Key and National in fright. They will be pissed off at Labour for putting up an unelectable leader right when they wanted to get rid of National.
Best we start planning for 2017.
TRP is right Blue. There will be no challenge in February. I said so on yesterday’s O.M. He is also technically right that it isn’t so much a challenge as a ‘motion of confidence in the current leader.’ Shearer will get it, and it will be unanimous.
I think it’s a bit unfair to charge the Labour caucus with a lack of brains and guts. Setting aside the duped ABC Club acolytes, it’s not a lack of guts etc. It’s politics and commonsense. There was a coup alright… against Cunliffe. With the help of the MSM the coup organisers won. If Cunliffe and his supporters were to retaliate now they would be cutting their own throats.
I don’t agree that it’s all over for Cunliffe. He’s a relatively young man. He can afford to wait another few years – 5 years if necessary.
Anne you may well be right about this, supposing that nothing arises in the meantime to change the political landscape. However, the questions that have arisen in the past year or so will not, as Robert Winter puts it, “be patronised away.” http://robertwinter.blogspot.co.nz/2013/01/labour-in-new-year.html
I have come to suspect that Shearer’s elevation, the handing out of rank with limited authority to various MPs, and the ABC concept itself are the result of deal-making of the “no Brash no cash” kind. To me, the speed with which the caucus raced to head Cunliffe off at the pass had all the hallmarks of a panicked group protecting a done deal. Furthermore, the defence that “Labour must appeal to the middle class” handily reduces the concept of middle class to those who think their interests coincide with corporate interests. No one seems willing to acknowledge that many of the angry commentators on the Standard, etc, are in fact middle class.
If the Shearer clique continue to protect him from the party’s judgement, then his legitimacy as a leader remains compromised. The deal or deals that got him there (supposing I am right) seem make opposing demands on him to those of the membership, who for the most part want a centre left Labour Party. They will not be appeased by ambiguity and empty flattery. So, OK, Shearer might survive a motion of confidence, but that does not mean that his problems are over.
Well said Olwyn.
It’s true. My hypothesis does rely on nothing arising in the meantime….
In the meantime, how Shearer rises to the reshuffle challenge will, in my view, give us some of the answers we are seeking in terms of his leadership and how genuine is his desire to reunite the caucus and a large section of the membership. He can only do it if he:
1) re-instates Cunliffe to the front bench with his previous portfolios.
2) promotes talent such as those shown by Charles Chauval, Sue Moroney (and others) who were effectively demoted 12 months ago because they supported David Cunliffe.
That is the absolute minimum in my book.
I wholeheartedly agree Anne, with the added caveat that these people are not just promoted, but given real authority over their areas of expertise, and not just empty rank with strings attached.
+1.
No more gagging and silly games like the one played on Cunliffe late last year. I refer to his… arriving at the meeting of the West Auckland Licensing Trust (I think it’s called that) to find David Parker had been sent in his place. Someone can correct me if I’m wrong, but I saw it as an attempt by the ABC gang to further humiliate Cunliffe.
I suspect there are more malicious tricks that have not been made public – attempts to provoke him into lashing out a la Carter, so they can get rid of him once and for all. Which is why I think that deal-making must lie behind it – either that or the ABC group have a genuine crank among their number. I mean, Cunliffe is very much liked in his electorate, and is surely not that hard to get on with!
I mean, Cunliffe is very much liked in his electorate, and is surely not that hard to get on with!
Not according to the almost uniformly hostile coverage of him in the media. I keep hearing and reading that Cunliffe is “not liked” by his colleagues. I’ve never heard or seen any “journalist” ever provide an example of what Cunliffe has done to incur this alleged opprobrium, however.
I mean, Cunliffe is very much liked in his electorate, and is surely not that hard to get on with!
He is indeed, and not only in his electorate. He is highly regarded by a lot of people. And there-in I suspect lies much of the problem. Some of his caucus colleagues are jealous. Put it to them, and they would laugh out loud and exclaim… what a lot of nonsense. But imho, that is the core of the problem. It has been amply demonstrated that jealousy can cause some people to lose their marbles…
Oh and btw… we know there was deal making 12 months ago at the time of the contest. That’s why Parker pulled out of the race. He was promised the shadow Finance portfolio if he did so. What’s the bet he has also been promised the role of Finance Minister when they become the government. I don’t doubt his credentials for the job, but underhand deals and being a part of attempts to smear and discredit a perceived rival should not be prerequisites for premium ministerial positions.
I am a member of David Cunliffe’s LEC.
David is adored by his LEC. Over the past 11 years I have watched him build it into a large, ethnically diversified, well-managed team.
If Cunliffe switches parties, I predict the entire LEC will switch with him. If he drops out of politics, I predict his LEC will virtually disappear.
If that happens, New Lynn will go National. New Lynn is NOT a safe Labour seat. We work damn hard to get the numbers for David. Compare the significantly higher vote tallies for David than for the Labour party vote.
If there is no open leadership contest in February, I will join the Greens but return to help Cunliffe’s electorate campaign in 2014.
He is far and away the most intelligent and creative MP in NZ today.
The only way his opponents have been able to counter him is with character assassination. That should tell you a lot about him and them.
Tall Poppy Syndrome.
Tall poppy syndrome (TPS) is a pejorative term primarily used in the UK, Canada, New Zealand and other Anglosphere nations to describe a social phenomenon in which people of genuine merit are resented, attacked, cut down, or criticised because their talents or achievements elevate them above or distinguish them from their peers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tall_poppy_syndrome
Max. Respect to you and to your LEC. Salam alaykum السلام عليكم
Salam alaykum, to you to habibi.
And an apology from David Shearer to ALL voters for his bullshit way of treating Cunliffe and others, all on the back of a Gower story hunt. So when ever I see a Gower story on TV3 website I always ask how a Snot nosed schoolboy can get a job like that.
I found TRP’s comments pretty odd as well. There needs to be a real distinction between leadership and policy; one is not a substitute for the other. Leadership is what makes policy real, even in Opposition.
For me the current leadership did a great job with the housing speech, but that’s one hit on a year of nothing. And indeed since the conference in November, pretty much radio silence.
Just astonishing at the lack of activity around the asset sales petition last week – indeed an unconvincing performance by Chippie that really did not carry beyond one news day. Anyone else stepped into that space?
And of course the holiday season is fantastic downtime where everyone is reading and wants to engage about stuff other than work. So where were the think pieces from Spokespeople in the newspapers? At our place we had well placed sources doing stuff for our industry right the way through. Newspapers are begging for content at this time, as are TV.
I know what leadership would feel like – and right now it’s just a hollow space. Holidays are not an excuse. They are a time to attack. Where’s the attack? Does Shearer have a date for this next massive speech, or is he going to wait for Parliament to resume?
Shearer has squandered a ripe leadership moment. I want my leadership vote. Give me my vote.
Cheers, y’all.
Kman: The election is Labour/Greens to lose. National are tired, running out of ideas, energy and, importantly, support parties inside Parliament. ACT and the Maori Party look stuffed, Dunne may just hang on, but that won’t be enough to keep the Nats in power. Key’s only hope is Winston, which looks like less of an option these days.
Jenny Kirk: ‘Time for a change’ will be a factor, for sure. National will need to do better than they did at the last election to win because of the collapse of the MP and ACT. That improvement seems unlikely going into a third election.
The Al1en: There is already a party like that. It’s called Mana. Nice to hear you’re on good terms with Mark Servian. He’s a great guy … the Golden Gordon of kiwi politics.
Blue: thanks, you seem to get where I’m coming from, even if you are pessimistic about the election.
Coronial Typer: you sound like you need a holiday yourself. Like it or not, parliament is on a break, there won’t be much political news for a few weeks yet. Which is fine by me, because MP’s are workers too and earn their breaks. (yes, I know, I snorted myself writing that sentence, but honestly, MP is such a shitty, all consuming and public job, most MP’s piss off overseas where noone knows them to get a real break).
“There is already a party like that. It’s called Mana.”
Not really. That’s a big assumption that those 800,000 identify with Hone’s agenda, just because they’re, for whatever reason out of the loop.
I’m not personally convinced mana represents outside it’s core constituents, which is of course their right to do so. There’s certainly room for another left party. Certainly room for an extra 5% that doesn’t come with winston, and certainly a cup of tea for our side to negate the one in Epsom.
I bet a new left party would consistently outpoll act, the conservatives and dare I say mana.
“Nice to hear you’re on good terms with Mark Servian. He’s a great guy”
I wouldn’t know. The point was I didn’t get a reply, much to my bemusement.
“the Golden Gordon of kiwi politics.”
No idea what that means, I’ll have to google, but I’m sure there’s plenty Golden Gordens.
You may have to expand, or not.
Golden Gordon was a legendary footballer in the comedy series Ripping Yarns. Specifically an episode about the hopeless Barnstoneworth United. Since the series came out, BUFC’s have popped up all around the world, including in Hamilton’s sunday league. It was my privilege to make up the numbers in that team a decade or two back, alongside the good Mr Servian.
Makes a better reference than kitchen nightmare Gordon I though of.
He still didn’t answer my mail though, so room for improvement on the left wing. 😉
Why don’t you just go back to Shearer and co, and tell em we don’t believe you. So now you can get your well done pat on the head.
If Shearer is the leader at the next election (it may not be in November 2014) then Labour are gonners and the 800,000 non-voters will pale by comparison. Yesterday I looked at the Labour Party website for policy statements; couldn’t find one. Labour had the best policies at the last election but still lost; how is it going to be different next time? Labour need a strong, articulate, caring and capable leader with the best interests of the majority of NZer’s at heart….. David Shearer is not the one.
The caucus is a mess. All down to the ABCer’s. Don’t they care?
A couple of days ago I asked (if by some miracle) David Cunliffe was elected leader what would he do about the ABCer’s. I haven’t had an answer yet. Looks like the LEC’s have some urgent work to do.
No wonder John Key is laughing all over his face.
labour have to be very careful in releasing policy because a good right wing govt will steel those policies its better to be be vague until 6 months from the election the best thing the left can do is highlight govts failures and mistakes at this stage!
3 left wing policies that the National Party cannot steal
1) 50,000 social housing units built by a renewed Ministry of Public Works, provided on both long and short term leases at 25% of household income, or alternatively sold to those on lower incomes via 1% pa no deposit interest rate mortgages.
2) 10,000 new trade apprenticeships for youth unemployed…working on building the socialised housing above.
3) Rationalisation of the NZ banking sector ensuring KiwiBank plays a far bigger role, including holding tens of thousands of new social housing mortgages on behalf of the government.
I’ll guarantee you that National could not steal the above policies. HOWEVER if you release CENTRIST MIDDLE OF THE ROAD POLICIES then yes, National will steal them.
Of course, the other reason you might not want to release policy yet is if you don’t have any ready to go.
+1
Waiting to release policy worked so well last election.
my thought exactly.
time to dismount?
labour have to be very careful in releasing policy because a good right wing govt will steel those policies
And if they’re good policies, and Labour actually lets people know that they’re Labour policies, then Labour makes a huge song and dance every single time about it.
Here’s the key messages, thought up in about two minutes off the top of my head:
“We’re happy to see the National government taking up Labour policies.”
“Clearly this government has run out of ideas, but that’s okay, because this is a good Labour policy.”
“The Government has done the right thing by realising their policies haven’t helped New Zealand at all, and that Labour policies will get us out of the hole they’ve dug in the economy.”
“We’re happy we can help steer New Zealand in the right direction by providing good, productive, sensible policies which the Government wants to steal.”
Yep. it’s walk in the park stuff.
And that has worked really well for us eh?
Time to get serious; no more wishful thinking.
The thought of Shearer as PM is depressing to me. So far I’ve not seen anything about him that appeals: not his public performances, not his political positioning (or lack of any real commitment to truly left wing policies), not his personality – nada.
However, I’m really not certain who there is that would make a good LP caucus leader. Cunliffe certainly needs to be in the front-tow team, but he may or may not make a good leader.
In the face of this, the only way forward at this stage, is for me to put more effort in supporting the Greens/Mana, and in supporting whatever the NZLP members come up with. With more democratic tools, it’s only the membership that can shift the NZLP in a positive direction, IMO. And that also means focusing on promoting policies and directions that are soundly those of the left and wider labour movement.
Need to find new talent? Must be time to promote a few more people from being Labour staffers to being Labour MPs.
But surely Cunliffe is a BETTER option than Shearer. With Shearer there is no way Labour will win; our only chance, irrespective of policy, is with Cunliffe…. there is no other option that I can see.
Yes, I would prefer Cunliffe. Don’t know how he will go in leading caucus, and if he will be able to unite them, though. Shearer is a non-starter, IMO.
ABCer’s……. the OTHER elephant in the room!
Simple they fall into line or they are OUT! And they can take that nasty little red headed school boy with them.
OMG we’re all at it again. Now where did I put those darkened curtains…
Because this issue needs resolving….. the ABCer’s may think it has, but they clearly can’t see the elephant in the room.
KhandallaViper.
Just noting that TRP is very consistent; last year he said that as long as Labour’s polling stayed good, Shearer was “home and hosed” as Labour Leader and that we should all get used to it.
PM Shearer is a distinct possibility in 2014. For what it’s worth.
Cheers, CV. And welcome back, comrade.
😉
But Shearer’s possibility, on previous form, is reliant on a nat fall over and certainly not from what I’ve seen, the inclusive politics he spoke about in the race to succeed Goff.
A win by default is still a win, but not really what I want from a party chasing my vote, or the sort of ambitious, aspirational government I’m looking for in exchange for it.
Gut feeling about 2014, still very much key’s to lose.
Yep. It’s the classic “don’t rock the boat” sleepwalk to victory. Which I also abhor.
Currently, our entire country (world?) is sleepwalking off a resource depletion and climate change cliff. Hands-off market led neoliberal style bullshit got us here and is not going to cut it.
Jeeez bad day for mixed metaphors.
Metaphor cocktails for everyone, on the house. 🙂
It’s a weakness and along with abhor, something that should be resisted.
The people need a leader they can follow. It’s a dire prognosis all around if we don’t find one, nationally and abroad. cometh the time etc..
It’s not coming from NZP, so where? Is maybe the more urgent question needed to be addressed.
NZLP
some fruits of sharing
https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/426820_364157637016199_1266498282_n.jpg
Oh yes they have been consistent They have NOT polled above 33.5% since 2008. And this is good why?? SO Shearer may lead them to the next train wreck/election. As I said before it’s all about trust. And the only thing we can trust Shearer to do, is protect his pay packet!
Labour on 33.5% is a perfectly respectable polling number. For the first half of National’s first term honeymoon.
I know that CV But with all the screw ups the NACTS have had last year, anyone with half a brain would have made hay at their expense. But what did we hear from Shearer and co the deafening sound of Silence, as usual! And with all the screw ups then Labour should have been about 40+ not stagnant at 32.5.
The Nats are preparing to torpedo Shearer in four streams.
a)They will get tame journos to ask “off piste” questions to try to embarrass him.
b) Key will push for heaps of face to face opps to try to embarrass him.
c) The Nats have background and context to his “Kiwi of the Year” nomination.
d) The management style and tactics deployed in the UN job will be compared to the Labour job.
The Nats are determine not to give 2014 away without a fight and they will fight as dirty as it takes. They believe they can win because Winston’s price is known.
They vuew the current labour leadership as its Achilles heel.
Welcome back, o original and much revered VIPER.
Did Clare Curran apologise?
Have you served sufficient time in purgatory?
At your service, KV. Did I mention that it was the comment of yours saying that CC had me as her first target which made me realise that the temperature was climbing higher than I expected and that action was required? Thanks for that.
Curran apologise? **guffaw** That’ll be a democratic socialist day in caucus. Regardless, I don’t require any apology from her.
As for pugatory mate, I had a good stay, better than that I made good friends with a few leviathans while I was away 😈
Last week the Syrian Government announced it had captured the brother of assassinated Al Qaeda leader al Zawahiri (who if we have to believe the US has been killed several times over the last few years). No Western MSM wanted to run with it.
Mohamed al-Zawahiri was captured on what the rebels and the MSM are calling a humanitarian mission!
What gets me is that we have invaded Afghanistan on what we were told was to eliminate the worlds most dangerous terrorist organization. We invaded Iraq and killed a million people to catch these bastards and now the leader is doing humanitarian work?
This is how stupid they think we are!
That a good one, He who was captured is just as likely to be in the employ of either the UN or the US via the Saudi Government,
You have to get with the real picture, prior to September 11 Al Qaeda were US funded and armed assets during the Soviet/Afghan war,
Priorities tho have now changed, Syria being the new target of US sponsored destabilization calls for new strategies and assets of Arab extraction are of premium value in turning Syria into a failure of a State to match those of Afghanistan and Iraq,
Next stop for the road show of course is Iran, all that oil yummy…
Yep!
Bad12, from what I can make out the west is panicking. there are no real good options. the chances of Zawahiri being in the pay of the Sauds, let alone the west, are remote. He considers the sauds to be apostate.
The west at the moment is most concerned about assads weapons falling into the hands of the rebels, and who may get their hands on them after that. If the west sends in troops, that’s what they will doing, isolating and destroying as much of assad’s stockpile as they can.
the Russians are moving ships, and marines into the area, probably to be a counter force (ripwire) against escalation, and to protect a pocket for Allawites to flee to. Also, to cover the withdrawal of Russian ‘civilians’.
That’s highly amusing, i always enjoy someone who parrots the news gathered from the MSM as if it were the Gospel,
Lets see now,Zawahiri thinks the Saudi’s are apostate but happily worked alongside Bin Laden, whose family is Saud and part of the ruling class as well as personal friends of the Bush family,
Are you suggesting that the group Bin Laden lead while fighting the Russians in Afghanistan was not funded by US cash funneled from the US via various ‘foundations’ and think-tanks’,
Even more amusing, is the supposed fear of ‘weapons of mass destruction’, now where have we heard that little tale before,
What the US in particular is most concerned about at the moment is the destabilization of the Arab country’s with strong leadership who do not align themselves with the US,
The strategy is to smash these country’s back to the stone-age in terms of intercine tribal and religious sects battling for power, the US can then deal favorably in terms of arms and support with the faction that has control of the oil production,
Bin Laden and any group He headed are essentially mercenaries, they may hate the West and the ruling class of the various Arab potentates, but, are still guns for hire as are a large number of other Arab staffed groups currently aiding in the destruction of the State of Syria,
Feel free tho to allow the mainstream media to tell you what to think of the current situation as it is at the least amusing to examine your belief system which does not seem to have been altered by the events in either Iraq or Afghanistan…
Don’t forget the tens of billions in reconstruction contracts for western corporations coming in to rebuild infrastructure smashed by western laser guided bombs a la Libya. It’s a great deal: one $50K bomb can create $20M in reconstruction contracts. Excellent return on investment.
I’m glad you find it amusing, but it’s ironic that the amusement is based on so much ignorance.
Yes, Bin laden is (or rather was) a Saud. But his citizenship was revoked at around the time he declared jihad on the regime. This happened a long time ago. You can find his declaration of war on the Sauds in plenty of places.
If you read it, and only that, you’ll find it useful to understanding these guys. You’d be better to read “The Looming Tower” which is very thorough.
The main thing, I guess, is to understand what AQ, Islamic Jihad and related theorists mean by “the near enemy”, and “the far enemy”.
And it’s not accurate to claim that AQ was funded by the CIA. AQ was set up to act as an alternative for jihadis. Bin laden felt that western funding of jihad was counterproductive, that it would co-opt any jihad and prevent sharia being implemented. that’s why he set up “the base” and sought funding from wealthy salafists. When Iraq invaded Kuwait, he offered to use this ‘base’ of supporters and jihadis to wage jihad. The Saud regime turned him down.
none of this stuff is secret, or propaganda, it’s history.
I was going to leave this, but given your demands in another thread that people debate in a manner fitting for this site, or whatever horseshit it is you are saying, I’ll give it a few minutes more, for your amusement.
Are you suggesting that the group Bin Laden lead while fighting the Russians in Afghanistan was not funded by US cash funneled from the US via various ‘foundations’ and think-tanks’,
Yep. I’m saying that. There is little to no credible evidence that the US funded AQ, and nothing at all that is conlcusive. The so called ‘Arab afghans’ were few in number (under 10,000) and pretty much kept to themselves. They were funded by Arabs, including OBL. OBL, late in the war, set up AQ as a database of arab mujaheddin to be used in fighting the ‘near enemy’ That’s why it translates as ‘the base’ and it’s why in those grainy ‘training videos’ you see them doing guerilla warfare training rather than terrorist training.
Those who claim AQ was funded and or created by the CIA or the US, tend to be ignorant about the war and the philosophies of those involved. They assume that because the CIA was providing funds and weapons to mujaheddin that this included AQ. It’s lazy and ignorant,, but suits their purpose.
Even more amusing, is the supposed fear of ‘weapons of mass destruction’, now where have we heard that little tale before
All sorts of places. the most relevant would be Iraq after the first gulf war. The regime admits it has them, the rest of the world’s intelligence agencies agree. Are you saying they do not? based on what? A logical fallacy along the lines of ‘Bush claimed Saddam had wmd in 2003 but he didn’t, therefore all such claims are false” perhaps? (And I’ll just note in passing here that I never mentioned WMD, the concern around that is real of course, but the missile stocks and other conventional weaponry is just as troubling).
Surely you could not be that stupid. So please. if you doubt he has chemical weapons, outline the reasons for that doubt in the face of the evidence that he does have them.
Bin Laden and any group He headed are essentially mercenaries, they may hate the West and the ruling class of the various Arab potentates, but, are still guns for hire as are a large number of other Arab staffed groups currently aiding in the destruction of the State of Syria,
Citation very much required, because that is hilarious. If one reads the histories of AQ and Blackwater, one is struck by the similarit.., nah, that’s just fucking daft.
Feel free tho to allow the mainstream media to tell you what to think of the current situation as it is at the least amusing to examine your belief system which does not seem to have been altered by the events in either Iraq or Afghanistan…
So come on, tell me about my belief system and how it related to those wars, and how it didn’t change.
And then, tell me where you get your information from, if not from the media. Because at the moment it looks like you reject something if it is said in the media, as long as it doesn’t conform to your preconceived notions about how things ‘really are’.
Reposted from bad12’s attempt at a reply here:
It’s all pretty weak, and anticipated in my comment.
You’ve ignored most of what I said, and have, as predicted, conflated mujaheddin with AQ.
Here’s your initial; claim:
You have to get with the real picture, prior to September 11 Al Qaeda were US funded and armed assets during the Soviet/Afghan war
Operation cyclone was about supporting the mujaheddin, and there is no conclusive evidence that OBL was funded. The implication that he was directly funded by the US is even harder to substantiate, which is probably why you are having such a hard time coming up with any good direct sources or quotes.
I’ll repost this in the relevant thread and hopefully we’ll see something substantive.
I really want to hear about my belief system and the evidence for doubt about Assad’s weaponry
“intent of Russian landing ships to discourage West from placing special forces on the ground”
-Kakariki
Where is anyone in the western MSM calling it a humanitarian mission ( as opposed to reporting that it is being called that by the syrian rebels)? (Your link is 404d and I can’t find it).
Here is a copy of the guys peace proposal from back in september:
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2012/09/14/suggestion_for_mediation_between_the_islamic_movements_and_the_west?page=0,1
(Hope that link works, you might need to register to FP to see it, which is free to do and well worth while, even if just to see what FP pros are saying).
There is nothing too surprising in it. Mohamed al-Zawahiri is a founding member of the Egyptian Islamic Jihad, and his ‘peace proposal’ reflects that. ‘Sharia law = peace’ pretty much.
Here’s the link cache and Mohammed al-Zawahiri rebuffing reports of his arrest in Syria.
Thanks.
Eve: not seeing any justification for your claim that the ‘MSM’ are calling it a humanitarian mission. That piece, and it looks to be the one you linked to, outlines the links between violent Islamic extremists and the rebels in some detail.
Reality diverging from something Ev said? This comes as a surprise to you?
No you are right. The “rebels” are telling us he was there on a humanitarian mission. And the article is faithfully repeating that. While claiming that Assad will no doubt try to make the most of the capture of this friendly old man who was according to the “rebels” only trying to broker deals so aid could get through and daffodils could grow in peace.
That would be the same rebels who force children to decapitate unarmed prisoners, <a href="chop Christians up and feed them to the dogs, Force children to dig their own graves and captives to do suicide missions to save their families just to name a few of the “liberators” humanitarian actions!
Oh, and chant allegiance to Osama bin Laden whom you still believe send 19 young Muslims to the US to break Newtons laws of Physics!
I’m confused as to what your complaint is.
The article reports some facts.
– The regime claims about the capture
– The rebel’s response to those claims
– Some background on some of the rebel groups.
What’s the actual problem?
Which claims do you dispute?
You stated that the MSM had never suggested that al Zawahiri had been on a humanitarian mission. I put it to you that by omitting his connection with extremely unpleasant CIA financed “rebels” and these “rebels” claiming that Zawahiri was only in Syria because of humanitarian reasons the did not dispel the notion that under the circumstances it would have been extremely unlikely that he was there because he wanted to be nice.
In fact they suggested that Assad would do just that, implying that just because Zawahiri was in Syria talking with “rebels” and with his violent al Qaeda background this did not mean he was there for nefarious reasons and that Assad would just use his capture for propaganda reasons.
Other than that your comment is disingenuous as you were the one “complaining” that the MSM had not in fact claimed themselves that Z was in Syria for Humanitarian reasons. I like it when you do that because while I know you won’t go to any of the link I give there are many who do which helps spreading information which might allow people to make up their mind in different ways than the Propaganda machine would like
I put it to you that by omitting his connection with extremely unpleasant CIA financed “rebels” and these “rebels” claiming that Zawahiri was only in Syria because of humanitarian reasons the did not dispel the notion that under the circumstances it would have been extremely unlikely that he was there because he wanted to be nice.
Well, let’s see what the ‘MSM’ said after reporting the conflicting claims about what the claimed presence of Zawahiri means:
They detail the reported presence of various AQ related people and groups within Syria, if anything, that supports the regimes claims, does it not? Are they denying, or downplaying the links to AQ?
What would rather they do:
1) Censor the claims by the rebels and just report the regimes claims?
Or
2)report the claims of all sides, and the known links, and allow readers to exercise their judgement about the claims made?
PB, are you really trying to use logic on a ticking fruitcake? Well good look and I applaud your optimism, but keep that up and we might be questioning your sanity too.
Labour is at a critical point in its life cycle. If it doesn’t make changes soon it will continue to slowly slide backwards in the poles. The main winner will be the Greens. The other winner will be National as the swing voters will chose to stay with them.
I have been a member of the Labour Party for a mere 18 months, and its been a real let down the way MP’s treat members… “amateur” is the word that comes to mind. The Caucus need a real shake up otherwise long term Labour support is going to continue to decline. But then you get the impression that many in the caucus don’t really care about the Party in the long term!
(ps: I have always had the impression that TRP has a contact in the ABC club.)
+1
National’s friends are wanting the Commerce Commission to be gutted because it is attempting to reduce Chorus charges.
According to an earnest sounding Simon Botherway on Radio New Zealand the surge in the share market experienced last year is threatened because investors will be afraid that the Commission “has become an activist body for consumers and forgotten about the risk that investors take with their money.” Obviously the return to investors should be the only concern of the Government body.
He makes no comment about whether or not Chorus’s charges were justified. Perhaps he thought this to be irrelevant.
This typifies the attitude of the wealthy and was an underlying cause of the global financial crisis. Returns to investors are never enough and any entity which stands in the way must be weakened.
We have still got a long way to go before New Zealand’s utilities quake before regulators. It’s the usual drill:
(A) Ask the (insert major industry) for advice on how to regulate, to which they reply it’s too hard, truly, and should be best left to self-regulation. Under National this usually works, but often works under Labour as well.
(B) When the self-regulation idea fails, the (insert major industry) sets itself up as the collective wisdom in this terrifyingly complex field and provides all the research for the government Department drafting the regulations. And then poach their staff.
(C) When the limits of this – and all the stalling entailed within it – are reached, the (insert major industry) seeks “peer review” from “international best practise” which a thin little country like this couldn’t know, and all the major consultants in the world for (insert major industry) know that the government job will be a one-off, but the industry will be around for ever buttering their bread.
(D) After several years, and a change of government, which (insert relevant industry) 3rd party funded up the wazoo to get in, the Board of the regulator is formed after all manner of golf games have been played
(E) The regulations are finally enacted, which are so complicated because of the size and power and national importance of the (insert major industry) that only a real dork of a lawyer couldn’t find a loophole, and finally
(F) By the time everyone’s filed and counter-filed and appealed to all relevant layers, there’s been no regulation for well over a decade. Or another fresh government has decided the whole thing just wasn’t worthwhile so we all just have to start again with a different kind of regulatory system, new legislation, and a restructure of the regualtors themselves.
This is practise we are seeing now, as with the massive utility price case we see down at the Wellington High Court which has been going on for several years now and will be appealed for several more.
Or you could do what the last Labour leader with any balls did with a major utility: cut their head off. Poor old Telecom. They hadn’t realised that David Cunliffe had ensured that the Cabinet SubCommittee had been fully delegated to make the decision to cleave them in half, rather than needing the next full Cabinet meeting.
That was not only policy in action, that was Leadership. That’s what it feels like.
+1 an interesting analysis would be the amount in each utility bill that goes to lawyers, auditors, staff and management overhead required to deal with compliance issues including base regulation, comm comm tiffs etc, so in effect the whole shooting match that’s grown since these were all gov’t departments.
Some are nonsense and must be challenged as the regulators often go ‘how about this, that should give us all something to do…’ and some are essential to prevent profiteering. Problem is the big money isn’t spent by the rule makers it’s the Utilities who invest big to ensure they stay one step ahead, all at the consumers cost.
DC showed how it’s done with TCom and they showed arrogance and contempt for the open market. IMO it effectively set a standard the cowering caucus know they’ll not measure up to.
I miss the box on the voting form to re-nationalise industries, that would be an interesting result.
The only thing that needs to be done with utilities is that they should be brought back into government ownership as a state monopoly. It’s the only way to get lower costs and it does that by getting rid of the mass duplication of competition.
hmmm
Hey IrishBill you issued a major policy challenge on the weekend. Big call for the authors here, and the editors.
When are you going to start turning that into a project – something beyond the usual wishlists and fantasies and theoretical catastrophies I see here usually?
Another great Charter School story!
http://tv.msnbc.com/2013/01/03/chicago-charter-schools-rake-in-thousands-in-disciplinary-fees/
Lots more here TP.
http://charterschoolscandals.blogspot.co.nz/
Standardistas to the barricades!
Over at the National Business Review there is a lively comments section underneath their printing of Brian Edwards’ now infamous paean for “Sir” Paul Holmes.
What makes it more interesting than usual is that one of the commenters is one David Walden, a puffy advertising man who, together with Murray Deaker, ran the idiotic Black Heart campaign in 2003, which had to be closed down after a series of incidents, including restaurateurs refusing to serve the Alinghi crew, and some supporters physically threatening the Alinghi crew members’ families.
With not even the slightest sense of irony, Walden has posted the following gem: “God I hate the small minds in this country who take a swipe at anyone who has the balls to put their head above the parapet, have a go , and succeed. Get a life!”
Why don’t YOU comment? It’s easy and you’ll get straight through….
http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/paul-holmes-–-starry-starry-knight-ck-134310#comment-600818
Back at work again. The DIY “holiday” is now behind me. No more cables to hide, washing lines to install, doors and windows to fix, toilets to stop dribbling, computers to change hard drives with SSD’s, etc etc.
I got a lot less done than I wanted on The Standard.
damn. I just looked at the article and comments and got all tired.
C’mon, McFliper, you c’n do it! Best strategy, seeing as you’ve already read the offending article, is to skip the mediocre thing and go straight to the comments.
it’s a week old already.
You obviously are immune to the very real pleasures to be had in flogging a dead horse.
Yep. I prefer to let them rot, if they’re well out of my way. It’s only when I’m in danger of stepping in one that I feel compelled to manhandle it out of the way.
Shearer shows he means it – by Mike Smith – December 21, 2011
Quoted below in full, without further comment.
Hi CV
“Gone is the ritual opening denunciation of the government’s programme”
yeah, cos they probably intend to do much the same if they ever get into power.
“He understands what New Zealanders expect of their MPs.”
Is this a statement of fact? I guess if it is said enough times some people will start to believe it.
Far be it for anyone to point out that being positive and looking forward might be just as legitimate a political tactic as doing nothing but criticising and whinging from the sidelines like a tool.
I’m not doing nothing. I’m questioning these above statements.
When an opposition party remains as quiet as Labour have this year over the vast array of issues occurring, you can be assured that a large number of potential voters will assume what I have in the above comment. Crying and complaining about that being stated as much as you like, however it won’t change the veracity of it.
It goes like this: “Why bother voting? The two main parties are much of a muchness”
Sound familiar?
Many voters not voting is o.k for whoever gets in, they still get the baubles of office. This is not-so good for the general welfare of the country however. Is this type of moral hazard going on in our main opposition party?
You are welcome to be positive. At present I see no real reason for that with regard to Labour’s recent behaviour.
Any business would know that complaints are an opportunity for improvement. Far better than people having a negative thoughts/experiences and keeping quiet. Word of mouth is the most effective advertising. But of course, McFliper, you know that, that is probably why you wrote your comment. Here’s a thought: instead of complaining about well-founded comments, how about complaining to the Labour caucus that their message ain’t strong enough? That way we will both be happy.
yeah sorry, I wasn’t actually meaning anybody here when I wrote it, and that’s the truth. Sorry I didn’t express myself properly. Possibly linked to the wrong comment, too.
Indeed, part of my opposition to the seemingly incessant anti-shearer stuff some commenters put forward here is expressly because this forum is not just an echo-chamber. And I fundamentally disagree that nact and lab are “much of a muchness”.
But I think that putting positives forward rather than attacking directly is a legitimate tactic in this case:
a) key and nact will not rise to it. They don’t give a shit, and will lie without a flicker of doubt. This lessens the effectiveness;
b) Mana/Greens/NZ1 are attacking, and even some good work by labour front benches (Ardern has been very active in areas of my interest). Rather than overload the opposition with negativity, I think the leader (whomever it be) should provide vision (in a positive comparison to when Key lays down the credibility of his ministers to save himself);
c) Labour did the attack thing all through the last term, to little avail. Time for a reconsider, is my guess.
Yes, complaints are an opportunity for improvement. But sometimes the squeakiest wheel is not needed, at which point it behoves one to consider the cost/benefit of just letting it seize up or fall off rather than feeding it more grease.
ps sorry about the handle change – form autofill on another machine 🙂
Ah that’s a relief, I thought I was heading for another “be positive; no I won’t” type conversation. There have been enough of them!
Yes it is good to list the positives I agree with most of the list apart from c), which I don’t think amounted to much compared with the other parties. I really do have a real worry about what type of government Labour are planning to create next time they are in power and this concern largely comes from the weakness surrounding their attacks on this current “government” (well that’s what is is commonly called, anyway…more closely resembling a circus if you asked me…).
I usually get rather annoyed with people saying that Nat and Labour are much of a muchness, there is a distinct difference when each party is in power (for those on the extreme ends of poverty/wealth anyway). My comment was really trying to illustrate what I believe is a general impression created by a lackadaisical opposition style…didn’t Labour have an approach of cooperation with the last term’s Government in order to come across as “fair and reasonable”? What effect did that have on the voter turn-out? Just sharing my train of thought here, not hard and fast conclusions, however they are getting that way….
That is an interesting comment re letting the squeaky wheel seize up…that is a good point.
The trouble with the 2011 campaign is that it can be made to say nothing of note.
People who want to point out Labour being reasonable as a cause of their turnout, can.
People who want to say Labour was “too left” in the campaign by going back to its roots and scaring off voters, can.
People who want to say labour was “too negative”, can.
It’s like 2014: if the next two years are like 2012, then Labour’s low vote will be blamed on Shearer by Cunliffe supporters, and blamed on negative-nellies by Shearer supporters (or those who are happy for any change from National and hope that the minor parties rather than Labour will drive the major policy shifts).
There’s also an instinctive bias that what we recall of Labour 2008-11 is what others recall. My personal impression is that Labour left the policy push too late, and that prior to that they still had the tired look from the 2008 defeat.
I think that if Labour bounce around policy ideas this year (and yes have an open leadership vote if Cunliffe or anyone wants to run), they can have a bit more “oomph” in 2014 than 08/11.
..which kinda leads to a question I have been pondering recently. Are the Labour Party doing any market research on their strengths and weaknesses, as in, doing some sort of information gathering on what might have been the cause of their poor results last election? Or low voter turnout?
I realize this type of research would never be entirely accurate, however it would be good to know that some sort of feedback loop was being conducted; trends could probably be discovered.
I get the impression this is not occurring.
lol
cf: comments here, here, here,and here. Some people disagree with your impression, and indeed think it’s occurring too much 🙂
Talk to the membership.
NO NEED FOR MARKET RESEARCH. That is what is f#c@ing us.
We are a political party. The values, issues, concerns, worries, ambitions and the family, community, business activities of our members is our information database.
That is why we changed our constitution, so that the input of the members will have more influence on the Caucus.
Our MPs, NZ Council reps, Policy and Sectoral people are connected to most facets of society and the economy. (Perhaps a few in the “Beltway” of Wellington are not!)
Most of the frustration expressed in these pages in the past year have been a cry for the Caucus to listen to the MEMBERS.
and there 🙂
hmm yes…I see what you mean McFlock re KV’s response (heh), however the links you provided appeared to be talking about focus groups for policies. I was more talking about perceptions and finding peoples’ reasons for the non-vote…I think there would be important information to be had out of such research. In fact I have already commented on what I figure might be one cause.
Khandalla Viper (&McFlock) I believe I am referring to something different than what you are talking about. The end result of what you promote in your comment and what I am referring to may achieve the same thing; more connection with the voters.
Lets not be forgetting that a lot (if not most) voters are not reading up on policies at election-time*; there is something else that they are basing their vote on.
*I admit this is an assumption, yet one I am prepared to risk making.
It is my perception that Labour have been really flailing around, kind of stabbing in the dark, as to their general approach, for years. Policies are very important (obviously), however strategy is too. I believe Nat is popular solely due to strategy, not policies. Isn’t the Asset Sales policy a case in point? Knowing what is turning voters off is pretty important information, and when it comes to elections I suspect (sadly) that policy is a very small part of what makes a Party popular.
“And I fundamentally disagree that nact and lab are “much of a muchness””
I can’t speak for anyone else, but my version of that complaint is that Labour has, in effect, become part of the mechanism of shutting out opposition to the assumptions of neoliberalism, or whatever you wish to call it.
It’s like the ‘good cop’ to National’s ‘bad cop’ – but the overall effect is the same; to get the electorate to submit to the ‘inevitability’ of a deregulated, market-based, ‘non-political’ means of making collective determinations about our future as a society.
To the extent that Labour continues to cleave to the economic individualism rationale for solving social issues (e.g., housing crises) it remains a non-left party by any substantive definition of what the term ‘left’ means.
Only through proudly advocating collective, political means to solve social issues could it correctly be called a left-wing party. Remember that even Douglas claimed that he wanted the same ‘ends’ as Labour had always wanted – he was just implementing different ‘means’.
The means are actually what distinguish ‘left’ and ‘right’ because the means are the ends – it’s all about different ways to run a society, after all.
It is in that sense that I think the current Labour caucus is part of the same ‘symphony’ and acts (no doubt unwittingly) in concert with National – albeit Labour performs a different ‘movement’ from that performed by National, with correspondingly different ‘tones’.
@Puddleglum
I fundamentally agree with your comment, Your first two paragraphs describe well, in my mind, why I hear many many comments re “the two main parties being much of a muchness”.
In the bigger picture, perhaps they are not so very different, however, when it comes to details, I disagree with them being (exactly) the same. i.e. it does make a difference having a Labour/coalition government. i.e when someone says to me “I’m not voting because all parties are the same” I implore them to vote (as long as they seem like a left wing voter!!).
Agree.
I believe that even small differences matter greatly – often to many people.
‘Good cops’ are better to have dealing with you than ‘bad cops’.
Voting matters immensely – and always will – in that way. It is one way of making society less painful for many people.
My father always used the old line – ‘If you don’t vote, you can’t complain’; and he was a lifelong socialist (having given up on the Communist Party at age 13). The lesser of two evils is still the lesser of two evils.
Labour is not a revolutionary party and hasn’t been for decades. I doubt it ever will be again.
Reversing neoliberal market-based approaches needs revolutionary perspectives forced by the minor parties so that the accepted norm shifts left again. Kiwibank, rail, are cases in point.
People who want a fundamental reversal of key’s policies, let alone lab4, need to givetheir vote to either parliamentary left parties, or even get more extreme left parties up to approaching 1% so that parliamentary parties start poaching their policies. Or the ~1%ers even get elected themselves.
Give power to the greens and mana and labour will move left despite those in its caucus who are idiot careerists. The difference between labour and national is that national need act to make them look like a moderating force rather than looters and thieves. Labour want to do good but are too afraid. It is still a fundamental difference.
People by nature have a bias towards optimism and expecting the best outcomes. That’s why a slogan like towards a brighter future is so manipulative and cynical. Sometimes “optimistic” is exactly the same as “unrealistic”.
+1 …sometimes quite a lot these days….
On the about-to-be sold assets; advice from DPMC:
“DPMC’s guidance note sets out how ministers and officials should talk publicly about listed companies, stressing the importance of making any market-moving decision outside of trading hours.
Ministers should only make a major statement that could affect a listed company when trading is open when there is a compelling reason.”
Opposition unbound, with National caught in the worst of both worlds.
So the Asset Sale Opposition Leadership mantle Race begins again: Which Labour or Green or NZ First MP will be the first to talk the price down?
Posted this on Sunday night, reposting now to catch a few more peeps, relevant since we are talking about more manufacturing job losses in NZ.
Rolls Royce Engines: the beauty of high value manufacturing
An amazing documentary, showing the kinds of wealth, capability and community that high tech, high added value manufacturing brings. It also makes it clear that this kind of expertise is gained over many years or decades and has to be protected and nurtured over the long term.
love don’t live here…anymore
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supermarine_Spitfire_variants:_specifications,_performance_and_armament#The_Rolls-Royce_Merlin_and_Griffon_engines
Now thats spitting Horsepower
Oh that was lovely – incredibly beautiful, functional, high performance works of engineering and art.
Unfortunately the nagging voice of global warming in the back of my mind made it feel a bit like Pr0n
Enjoy the fruits of high energy civilisation while they are around, and yes enjoy the jet engines too 😀
There’s a couple of books that I think would be good for Labour to have a look at in the leadup to 2014:
Get out the Vote : how to increase voter turnout (2nd ed) (2008)
The Victory Lab: the Secret Science of Winning Campaigns (2012)
Yes, they are in the US context, but campaigning has changed – and it’s more than just flinging up a Facebook page or tweeting now and then. Buying ads on Youtube to get younger voters for example.
I’m not so sure the fundamentals have changed:
Target advertising messages/policy discussions at the medium for each market;
target each speech to the audience;
get as much facetime as possible;
release news statements to frame discussion as soon as possible – lead events don’t just react (or even worse do nothing);
involve your party membership in electioneering activities;
maintain contact with voters who show interest;
keep initiating contact with voters who don’t;
use party activists to register electors in target areas;
get the vote out on the day.
another Irish blessing
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2013/0107/1224328508613.html
It’s a Beautiful Day; U2?
Forking Hay (again)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michel_Foucault#The_History_of_Sexuality
Haberdashery
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C3%BCrgen_Habermas
A Place in The Sun?
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0043924/
Shilo, when I was young, I used to call your name, when no one else would come…
The Turn of The Shrew
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Turn_of_the_Screw
The Taming of The Screw
James Gang
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0443680/ (and the Coward Robert Ford)
more Habbadashery-Why do we look at injustice? Why do we tolerate wrong? Destruction and violence are before us; strife and conflict abounds. Therefore the law is paralyzed (aware of the backlog in the courts since “reform school”), and justice rarely prevails.
-You have made men like fish in the sea, like sea creatures that have no ruler. The wicked foe pulls all of them up with hooks, he catches them in his net. he gathers them up in his dragnet; for by his net he lives in luxury and enjoys the choicest food. is he to keep on emptying his net, destroying nations without mercy?
“Woe to him who piles up stolen goods and makes himself wealthy by extortion! How long must this go on? Will not your debtors suddenly arise? Will they not wake and make you tremble? Then you will become their victim. For the revelation awaits an appointed time; It speaks of an end and it will not prove false. Though it linger, wait for it;
‘Iranophobia” pursued across the border
http://www.china.org.cn/world/2013-01/07/content_27607673.htm
Yesterday I found an article about H1N1 cases in China (but it’s disappeared now)
The Never-ending Story in The Labyrinth cacooning
http://www.espnwsummit.com/brightspotcreative/index.php/attendee_bios/view?name=Faith%20Popcorn
scattering cushions and sitting back to watch the future
-a plan so cunning we can pin a tail on it and call it a Weasel 🙂
“to live at all is miracle enough”-Peake experiences
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0197154/
Pico… pico…pico
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pico_Mirandola
“Nourish the cock, but do not sacrifice him, since he is sacred to the sun and the moon”(forget the greek I think it was)
-every pebble is an exception so Blam Blam blame?
“Allegory is life giving and and biblical “literalism” as meant today, is life denying”. Now all these things happened unto them for examples and they are written for our admonition.
Can we hear the bells of St Paul: Shane
another “confession” http://books.google.co.nz/books/about/Confessions.html?id=GbpZpda5y4QC&redir_esc=y ; an Excellent translation
just Bragg ing
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/reviews/the-book-of-books-by-melvyn-bragg-2276039.html
(I’m not looking for a New England) William Wilberforce read the KJ every day (obviously I don’t) and had it’s cadences and rhythms running through his veins= Obama-care
meanwhile, now the Commerce Commission are under attack (for being a “consumer Watchdog” ??? wtf) by Investors and their fund managers
Greed! was a discussion I had with a tangata whenua tane the other day; “No Limit to it”, he asserted. Pushin’ buttons? see the supermarkets after the New Year break? people were clearly emaciated and needed some more chippies and soft drink.
Face To Face http://www.paperbackswap.com/Human-Face-God-John-A-T-Robinson/book/066420970X/
Honest! :)(On The Beach; the lifesavers are rescuing record business) 🙁
-John
@ Colonial Viper
A personal note to Colonial Viper regarding your comment yesterday:
“Like “freedom fries”? Not sure if this is where you are coming from, but I have a dislike of the American-style use of ‘freedom’ as a word pseudo-representing all that is good and wholesome and God-fearing in the world.”
For a first hand account of what it is like to lose virtually all of one’s “freedoms” at the hands of a dictatorial regime, contact an amiable acquaintance of mine, Kim Dotcom.
Hi AmaKiwi. For real ‘democracy’ and ‘freedom’ we have to move beyond a sole ballot box focus to that of broader democratic institutions, checks and balances (which might include binding referenda), and values throughout society.
Specifically applied to the Kim Dotcom case, the police and the SIS need to be acting in ways which uphold democracy, natural justice and due process, not offshore corporatism.
Brief outages this evening are to setup the firewalls at the main servers and to widen the data pipe
Test message
Test that I haven’t broken the awkwardly fragile re-edit
Seems to be working
Ok – looks like the SSL for authors works ok.
Another brief outage to increase the server CPU, and then I’m off to bed
Ouch. Didn’t really expect that the server would very slowly resize it’s disk footprint because I wanted more CPU. But it is ok now after the site was offline for an hour.
I’ll see if that fixes the peaking issues from todays dose of bots.
Tommorrow’s task is less of a problem – round two of the backup systems.
my own test message to get my viperous name back.
Awesome. And a new adjective introduced to the English language too 🙂