Te Reo Putake yesterday in TS added a good big dose of spice to the “Internal Debate” that is consuming the Labour Party members and supporters.
The very long string of comments focused on TRP’s adamant assertion that there will be a “UNANIMOUS VOTE OF CONFIDENCE IN SHEARER IN CAUCUS” next month.
TRP strongly predicated this assertion on a few points.
The core one was that Labour will definitely win under Shearer and that all the Cunliffe faction are sucking-up in the hope of ministerial positions.
Friends, the relatively small recent movements in the polls show otherwise. We are no better off than when we lost in 2008. We would be better off if Phil had stayed. IMO. This is despite Key &co continually shooting themselves in both feet. The repeated trumpeting that there is a significant poll rise is just hype. Deluding ourselves will achieve nothing.
TPR’s next messaging is that “It’s policy that makes good government, not a slick leader.”
While a less than capable and polished Leader would be a secondary issue if there was a front bench free to communicate new policy, that is just not the case at present. Since 2008 we have tried to make new policies the plank for the leader to gain popularity. We are using policy only to underpin a less-than-slick leadership strategy for over five years. And putting policy in that diminished role has failed.
TRP then repeats the mantra that the 2014 election in in the bag, that it is Labour’s to loose. “And unless Shearer does something spectacularly stupid, he will be the next PM”.
Sleep-walking to victory. It is our turn to govern. The Nats will loose, we do not need to win! Don’t rock the boat boy and girls, we can sail into the Treasury benches if we paddle very quietly!
TRP then says that because he, TRP, cannot see any evidence of anyone throwing their hat is the ring then it is not happening. This stance suggests to me that TRP is a very well connected insider, possibly on the NZ Council or a similar lofty position.
The members do not come into TRP’s Wellington centred reckoning. However, they are telling their MPs the same thing they have been saying for the past eight months: the current leadership approach has not won the imagination of the membership, of the 800,000 that did not vote nor of the voting public. The membership is saying there must be a change.
We need a very wide change at the top, not merely the overdue retirement of King, Goff and Mallard to which TRP alludes. That change has to be in ATTITUDE towards reform as well as in personnel. The current attitude is damaging the party.
The serious concerns of the membership about the wider leadership’s approach to policy and to winning in 2014 drove the divisions at the Conference. The Conference was only the start of the reform process, not the end. The membership wants those reforms to be advanced, not snuffed. The membership see a robust leadership debate road-show as a critical part of this reform movement.
Khandalla Viper – I totally agree with your analysis. And especially about the oft-repeated mantra ” the 2014 election in in the bag, that it is Labour’s to lose”.
That is just what WILL happen if Labour does not change – both attitude, and the people at the top – Labour will lose yet again. And both our country and our people will suffer.
Come election year, the msm will turn against Shearer, Shon Key will “charm” the electorate again (and the electorate will fall for it !), the 800,000-odd who didn’t vote in 2011 won’t vote in 2014 and there might even be a larger number of non-voters, and the belief that National voters will somehow go to Labour because they don’t like Nat policies is misguided at best. National voters like being in power – and they never vote for Labour ! So they head for the polling booths en masse, and Labour voters stay at home. Its happened before, and it will happen again – if Labour does not change now.
“the 800,000-odd who didn’t vote in 2011 won’t vote in 2014”
That no party has stepped up to the plate to capture this vote bemuses me.
A huge opportunity wasted. If Craig can get the loony religious right to turn out, why not a party from the left aimed squarely at those disenfranchised from the system.
I had a plan, sent it to the Greens, twice, but heard nothing from them, though of course, I’m still willing to chat to Mr Servian in Hamilton West. 😉
“the 800,000-odd who didn’t vote in 2011 won’t vote in 2014″
And from the remainder who do vote, Labour could get 34%-35%, in an optimistic scenario. Certainly enough to hammer together a one term coalition of sorts, probably requiring NZ First. But climbing over 40%, to a result similar to what Labour achieved in both 2002 and 2005 is not a possibility that I have heard anyone even contemplating. Regardless of how many beers they have had.
As others have noted, this is a historical juncture for Labour.
From a comment to me on the Standard made by ‘i forget’ Chauvel ‘was’ in the Cunliffe camp but has not been demoted,
He performs well in the house and has the type of presence,(future leadership material), when on His feet speaking that has National Ministers cowering,
My view is that it isn’t important which particular faction the individual MP’s side with, more importantly is the willingness of the individual MP’s to vote to ‘trigger’ the party wide leadership February,
Should that occur, and i have my doubts, then whoever wins such a vote should be said to be the party’s choice and have the full backing of the party and it’s MP’s…
Hear what you’re saying regarding the relative lack of importance of the individual MPs’ factional loyalty. I agree.
The reason I’m interested is that I’m in the Ohariu electorate and have played with the idea of lending volunteer support in the next campaign. For that to happen David Shearer would need to be gone and CC would have to be one of the ones to see him off with a cheery wave.
I’m not a Labour party member and have almost completely lost faith in the party, while being increasingly Green and Mana. However, these are desparate times and you have to be practical so IF there were changes to the leadership and some solid and radical policy was announced I’d stand by them, as a voter and a practical supporter. It’s still a long and dreary wait till 2014 and much can change in that time so at this point I’m not holding my breath.
To my undying shame as a Party Member i trudged the miles stuffing letterboxes to aid the election of the Lange/Douglas fiasco,
There are still what seems a majority in the Labour Caucus who when the subject is broached nod sagely and intone with the utmost wisdom that what was inflicted upon the working class of New Zealand at the time ”had to happen”,
I stuck with Labour right up to the point where the Clark Government denied beneficiary dependent families the same tax credits as were given to the upper middle class,
I am now a Green Party Member and while my intentions this far out from 2014 are to vote Green i may be swayed by how close Mana can come to unseating Flavell, the Parliament could use the voice of Annette Sykes,
Should Sykes unseat Flavell the % of party votes should rise for Mana and if there was a chance of Mana gaining a third MP from the party vote they may well get mine,
Hope Metiria doesn’t read this or i am in trouble LOLZ, the above would of course depend upon the Green vote leading up to the 2014 election not only holding up but rising to at least bring one more Green MP into the house…
yes but that is not down to the actions of chauvel..heatley was born cowering..
..and as a person who has done commentaries on questiontime for some years..
..like the rest of the front bench..chauvel has not particularly impressed..
..(the best performer in labour is cunnliffe..hands down..he makes national ministers nervous..and nails them with cold/hard intellect/logic..)
..there is of course humour to be had from watching genter from the greens vs brownlee..
..it is a mouse vs. elephant kinda conflict..
..and i noted in an end of year summary that the mouse seems able to make the elephant bellow in distress on cue/at will..
..and as others have said more eloquently..this is a crossroads for labour..
..and yes..i also fear the party leadership is just planning on that sleepwalk to victory..
..which if successful..but without the needed policy u-turns on fighting poverty etc..
..they will be worse than useless..
..and like a previous commenter i have gone from a life-long labour voter..to green..to mana..
..and that because harawira seems to be the only one advocating concrete-policy to end poverty etc..
..why is labour scared of coming up with strong policies..and arguing them now..?
..i agree..that in tweedle-dee/tweedledum decades/govts like we have recently had/endured..that policy had to be kept hidden until just before the election..(‘cos tweedle could nick from tweedle..)
..but i really don’t think national are going to steal a brace of policies aimed at ending poverty..eh..?
..so i think that historical reality/way of doing things can be safely put to one side..eh..?
..and really..for a toxic govt such as this one – doing all they are doing that so many hate..(83% opposed to asset-sales…)..
..for labour to be smug/complacent/positively spinning the fact they are stuck down where they are in the polls..
I see nothing in those opinion polls but embarrassment for the Labour party. There’s spin, and there’s damn spin.
Regardless of being an mmp nation, low thirties, after four years of dodgy government shit, isn’t a positive endorsement of anything.
Someone in caucus must have been taking notes watching Bill English run the local economy – Do nothing and hope it picks up when other countries start spending up large again. Labour’s only chance is to forget the ‘credible alternative’ tag and make the agenda their own. Will they? If they past four years are anything to go by (save for three weeks of Goff flying solo in the election campaign) Will they f*ck.
In my brutally honest opinion, Labour’s a goner. It’s not the only party on the left, and again in my opinion, certainly not the best party on the left by a long way.
Shearer won’t be challenged, by anyone, and he’ll go on to mumble and fluster his way through every tv/house appearance all the way to 2014.
The leader is not more important than the party some will say, and they’re completely wrong. It does and will transfer into lost votes. I won’t vote for DS GR TM or any of the fuck nuggets pulling strings behind the scene, so that’s one.
I think TRP is right that no one will challenge in February, and that Shearer will lead Labour into the next election. The Labour caucus have shown such a remarkable lack of brains and guts that any other outcome is highly unlikely.
Labour will lose in 2014 and National will be a three term Government. Shearer will do okay in the polls up until the election campaign starts – steady or even moderately increasing from present position. The Shearerites will crow and say they were right and everyone else was wrong.
When the public get a look at Shearer during the debates they will baulk at the prospect of electing a PM who can’t string a sentence together and run back to John Key and National in fright. They will be pissed off at Labour for putting up an unelectable leader right when they wanted to get rid of National.
TRP is right Blue. There will be no challenge in February. I said so on yesterday’s O.M. He is also technically right that it isn’t so much a challenge as a ‘motion of confidence in the current leader.’ Shearer will get it, and it will be unanimous.
I think it’s a bit unfair to charge the Labour caucus with a lack of brains and guts. Setting aside the duped ABC Club acolytes, it’s not a lack of guts etc. It’s politics and commonsense. There was a coup alright… against Cunliffe. With the help of the MSM the coup organisers won. If Cunliffe and his supporters were to retaliate now they would be cutting their own throats.
I don’t agree that it’s all over for Cunliffe. He’s a relatively young man. He can afford to wait another few years – 5 years if necessary.
Anne you may well be right about this, supposing that nothing arises in the meantime to change the political landscape. However, the questions that have arisen in the past year or so will not, as Robert Winter puts it, “be patronised away.” http://robertwinter.blogspot.co.nz/2013/01/labour-in-new-year.html
I have come to suspect that Shearer’s elevation, the handing out of rank with limited authority to various MPs, and the ABC concept itself are the result of deal-making of the “no Brash no cash” kind. To me, the speed with which the caucus raced to head Cunliffe off at the pass had all the hallmarks of a panicked group protecting a done deal. Furthermore, the defence that “Labour must appeal to the middle class” handily reduces the concept of middle class to those who think their interests coincide with corporate interests. No one seems willing to acknowledge that many of the angry commentators on the Standard, etc, are in fact middle class.
If the Shearer clique continue to protect him from the party’s judgement, then his legitimacy as a leader remains compromised. The deal or deals that got him there (supposing I am right) seem make opposing demands on him to those of the membership, who for the most part want a centre left Labour Party. They will not be appeased by ambiguity and empty flattery. So, OK, Shearer might survive a motion of confidence, but that does not mean that his problems are over.
It’s true. My hypothesis does rely on nothing arising in the meantime….
In the meantime, how Shearer rises to the reshuffle challenge will, in my view, give us some of the answers we are seeking in terms of his leadership and how genuine is his desire to reunite the caucus and a large section of the membership. He can only do it if he:
1) re-instates Cunliffe to the front bench with his previous portfolios.
2) promotes talent such as those shown by Charles Chauval, Sue Moroney (and others) who were effectively demoted 12 months ago because they supported David Cunliffe.
I wholeheartedly agree Anne, with the added caveat that these people are not just promoted, but given real authority over their areas of expertise, and not just empty rank with strings attached.
No more gagging and silly games like the one played on Cunliffe late last year. I refer to his… arriving at the meeting of the West Auckland Licensing Trust (I think it’s called that) to find David Parker had been sent in his place. Someone can correct me if I’m wrong, but I saw it as an attempt by the ABC gang to further humiliate Cunliffe.
I suspect there are more malicious tricks that have not been made public – attempts to provoke him into lashing out a la Carter, so they can get rid of him once and for all. Which is why I think that deal-making must lie behind it – either that or the ABC group have a genuine crank among their number. I mean, Cunliffe is very much liked in his electorate, and is surely not that hard to get on with!
I mean, Cunliffe is very much liked in his electorate, and is surely not that hard to get on with!
Not according to the almost uniformly hostile coverage of him in the media. I keep hearing and reading that Cunliffe is “not liked” by his colleagues. I’ve never heard or seen any “journalist” ever provide an example of what Cunliffe has done to incur this alleged opprobrium, however.
I mean, Cunliffe is very much liked in his electorate, and is surely not that hard to get on with!
He is indeed, and not only in his electorate. He is highly regarded by a lot of people. And there-in I suspect lies much of the problem. Some of his caucus colleagues are jealous. Put it to them, and they would laugh out loud and exclaim… what a lot of nonsense. But imho, that is the core of the problem. It has been amply demonstrated that jealousy can cause some people to lose their marbles…
Oh and btw… we know there was deal making 12 months ago at the time of the contest. That’s why Parker pulled out of the race. He was promised the shadow Finance portfolio if he did so. What’s the bet he has also been promised the role of Finance Minister when they become the government. I don’t doubt his credentials for the job, but underhand deals and being a part of attempts to smear and discredit a perceived rival should not be prerequisites for premium ministerial positions.
David is adored by his LEC. Over the past 11 years I have watched him build it into a large, ethnically diversified, well-managed team.
If Cunliffe switches parties, I predict the entire LEC will switch with him. If he drops out of politics, I predict his LEC will virtually disappear.
If that happens, New Lynn will go National. New Lynn is NOT a safe Labour seat. We work damn hard to get the numbers for David. Compare the significantly higher vote tallies for David than for the Labour party vote.
If there is no open leadership contest in February, I will join the Greens but return to help Cunliffe’s electorate campaign in 2014.
He is far and away the most intelligent and creative MP in NZ today.
The only way his opponents have been able to counter him is with character assassination. That should tell you a lot about him and them.
Tall poppy syndrome (TPS) is a pejorative term primarily used in the UK, Canada, New Zealand and other Anglosphere nations to describe a social phenomenon in which people of genuine merit are resented, attacked, cut down, or criticised because their talents or achievements elevate them above or distinguish them from their peers.
And an apology from David Shearer to ALL voters for his bullshit way of treating Cunliffe and others, all on the back of a Gower story hunt. So when ever I see a Gower story on TV3 website I always ask how a Snot nosed schoolboy can get a job like that.
I found TRP’s comments pretty odd as well. There needs to be a real distinction between leadership and policy; one is not a substitute for the other. Leadership is what makes policy real, even in Opposition.
For me the current leadership did a great job with the housing speech, but that’s one hit on a year of nothing. And indeed since the conference in November, pretty much radio silence.
Just astonishing at the lack of activity around the asset sales petition last week – indeed an unconvincing performance by Chippie that really did not carry beyond one news day. Anyone else stepped into that space?
And of course the holiday season is fantastic downtime where everyone is reading and wants to engage about stuff other than work. So where were the think pieces from Spokespeople in the newspapers? At our place we had well placed sources doing stuff for our industry right the way through. Newspapers are begging for content at this time, as are TV.
I know what leadership would feel like – and right now it’s just a hollow space. Holidays are not an excuse. They are a time to attack. Where’s the attack? Does Shearer have a date for this next massive speech, or is he going to wait for Parliament to resume?
Shearer has squandered a ripe leadership moment. I want my leadership vote. Give me my vote.
Kman: The election is Labour/Greens to lose. National are tired, running out of ideas, energy and, importantly, support parties inside Parliament. ACT and the Maori Party look stuffed, Dunne may just hang on, but that won’t be enough to keep the Nats in power. Key’s only hope is Winston, which looks like less of an option these days.
Jenny Kirk: ‘Time for a change’ will be a factor, for sure. National will need to do better than they did at the last election to win because of the collapse of the MP and ACT. That improvement seems unlikely going into a third election.
The Al1en: There is already a party like that. It’s called Mana. Nice to hear you’re on good terms with Mark Servian. He’s a great guy … the Golden Gordon of kiwi politics.
Blue: thanks, you seem to get where I’m coming from, even if you are pessimistic about the election.
Coronial Typer: you sound like you need a holiday yourself. Like it or not, parliament is on a break, there won’t be much political news for a few weeks yet. Which is fine by me, because MP’s are workers too and earn their breaks. (yes, I know, I snorted myself writing that sentence, but honestly, MP is such a shitty, all consuming and public job, most MP’s piss off overseas where noone knows them to get a real break).
“There is already a party like that. It’s called Mana.”
Not really. That’s a big assumption that those 800,000 identify with Hone’s agenda, just because they’re, for whatever reason out of the loop.
I’m not personally convinced mana represents outside it’s core constituents, which is of course their right to do so. There’s certainly room for another left party. Certainly room for an extra 5% that doesn’t come with winston, and certainly a cup of tea for our side to negate the one in Epsom.
I bet a new left party would consistently outpoll act, the conservatives and dare I say mana.
“Nice to hear you’re on good terms with Mark Servian. He’s a great guy”
I wouldn’t know. The point was I didn’t get a reply, much to my bemusement.
“the Golden Gordon of kiwi politics.”
No idea what that means, I’ll have to google, but I’m sure there’s plenty Golden Gordens.
You may have to expand, or not.
Golden Gordon was a legendary footballer in the comedy series Ripping Yarns. Specifically an episode about the hopeless Barnstoneworth United. Since the series came out, BUFC’s have popped up all around the world, including in Hamilton’s sunday league. It was my privilege to make up the numbers in that team a decade or two back, alongside the good Mr Servian.
If Shearer is the leader at the next election (it may not be in November 2014) then Labour are gonners and the 800,000 non-voters will pale by comparison. Yesterday I looked at the Labour Party website for policy statements; couldn’t find one. Labour had the best policies at the last election but still lost; how is it going to be different next time? Labour need a strong, articulate, caring and capable leader with the best interests of the majority of NZer’s at heart….. David Shearer is not the one.
The caucus is a mess. All down to the ABCer’s. Don’t they care?
A couple of days ago I asked (if by some miracle) David Cunliffe was elected leader what would he do about the ABCer’s. I haven’t had an answer yet. Looks like the LEC’s have some urgent work to do.
labour have to be very careful in releasing policy because a good right wing govt will steel those policies its better to be be vague until 6 months from the election the best thing the left can do is highlight govts failures and mistakes at this stage!
3 left wing policies that the National Party cannot steal
1) 50,000 social housing units built by a renewed Ministry of Public Works, provided on both long and short term leases at 25% of household income, or alternatively sold to those on lower incomes via 1% pa no deposit interest rate mortgages.
2) 10,000 new trade apprenticeships for youth unemployed…working on building the socialised housing above.
3) Rationalisation of the NZ banking sector ensuring KiwiBank plays a far bigger role, including holding tens of thousands of new social housing mortgages on behalf of the government.
I’ll guarantee you that National could not steal the above policies. HOWEVER if you release CENTRIST MIDDLE OF THE ROAD POLICIES then yes, National will steal them.
Of course, the other reason you might not want to release policy yet is if you don’t have any ready to go.
labour have to be very careful in releasing policy because a good right wing govt will steel those policies
And if they’re good policies, and Labour actually lets people know that they’re Labour policies, then Labour makes a huge song and dance every single time about it.
Here’s the key messages, thought up in about two minutes off the top of my head:
“We’re happy to see the National government taking up Labour policies.”
“Clearly this government has run out of ideas, but that’s okay, because this is a good Labour policy.”
“The Government has done the right thing by realising their policies haven’t helped New Zealand at all, and that Labour policies will get us out of the hole they’ve dug in the economy.”
“We’re happy we can help steer New Zealand in the right direction by providing good, productive, sensible policies which the Government wants to steal.”
The thought of Shearer as PM is depressing to me. So far I’ve not seen anything about him that appeals: not his public performances, not his political positioning (or lack of any real commitment to truly left wing policies), not his personality – nada.
However, I’m really not certain who there is that would make a good LP caucus leader. Cunliffe certainly needs to be in the front-tow team, but he may or may not make a good leader.
In the face of this, the only way forward at this stage, is for me to put more effort in supporting the Greens/Mana, and in supporting whatever the NZLP members come up with. With more democratic tools, it’s only the membership that can shift the NZLP in a positive direction, IMO. And that also means focusing on promoting policies and directions that are soundly those of the left and wider labour movement.
But surely Cunliffe is a BETTER option than Shearer. With Shearer there is no way Labour will win; our only chance, irrespective of policy, is with Cunliffe…. there is no other option that I can see.
Yes, I would prefer Cunliffe. Don’t know how he will go in leading caucus, and if he will be able to unite them, though. Shearer is a non-starter, IMO.
Just noting that TRP is very consistent; last year he said that as long as Labour’s polling stayed good, Shearer was “home and hosed” as Labour Leader and that we should all get used to it.
PM Shearer is a distinct possibility in 2014. For what it’s worth.
But Shearer’s possibility, on previous form, is reliant on a nat fall over and certainly not from what I’ve seen, the inclusive politics he spoke about in the race to succeed Goff.
A win by default is still a win, but not really what I want from a party chasing my vote, or the sort of ambitious, aspirational government I’m looking for in exchange for it.
Gut feeling about 2014, still very much key’s to lose.
Yep. It’s the classic “don’t rock the boat” sleepwalk to victory. Which I also abhor.
Currently, our entire country (world?) is sleepwalking off a resource depletion and climate change cliff. Hands-off market led neoliberal style bullshit got us here and is not going to cut it.
It’s a weakness and along with abhor, something that should be resisted.
The people need a leader they can follow. It’s a dire prognosis all around if we don’t find one, nationally and abroad. cometh the time etc..
It’s not coming from NZP, so where? Is maybe the more urgent question needed to be addressed.
Oh yes they have been consistent They have NOT polled above 33.5% since 2008. And this is good why?? SO Shearer may lead them to the next train wreck/election. As I said before it’s all about trust. And the only thing we can trust Shearer to do, is protect his pay packet!
I know that CV But with all the screw ups the NACTS have had last year, anyone with half a brain would have made hay at their expense. But what did we hear from Shearer and co the deafening sound of Silence, as usual! And with all the screw ups then Labour should have been about 40+ not stagnant at 32.5.
The Nats are preparing to torpedo Shearer in four streams.
a)They will get tame journos to ask “off piste” questions to try to embarrass him.
b) Key will push for heaps of face to face opps to try to embarrass him.
c) The Nats have background and context to his “Kiwi of the Year” nomination.
d) The management style and tactics deployed in the UN job will be compared to the Labour job.
The Nats are determine not to give 2014 away without a fight and they will fight as dirty as it takes. They believe they can win because Winston’s price is known.
They vuew the current labour leadership as its Achilles heel.
At your service, KV. Did I mention that it was the comment of yours saying that CC had me as her first target which made me realise that the temperature was climbing higher than I expected and that action was required? Thanks for that.
Curran apologise? **guffaw** That’ll be a democratic socialist day in caucus. Regardless, I don’t require any apology from her.
As for pugatory mate, I had a good stay, better than that I made good friends with a few leviathans while I was away 😈
Last week the Syrian Government announced it had captured the brother of assassinated Al Qaeda leader al Zawahiri (who if we have to believe the US has been killed several times over the last few years). No Western MSM wanted to run with it.
Mohamed al-Zawahiri was captured on what the rebels and the MSM are calling a humanitarian mission!
What gets me is that we have invaded Afghanistan on what we were told was to eliminate the worlds most dangerous terrorist organization. We invaded Iraq and killed a million people to catch these bastards and now the leader is doing humanitarian work?
That a good one, He who was captured is just as likely to be in the employ of either the UN or the US via the Saudi Government,
You have to get with the real picture, prior to September 11 Al Qaeda were US funded and armed assets during the Soviet/Afghan war,
Priorities tho have now changed, Syria being the new target of US sponsored destabilization calls for new strategies and assets of Arab extraction are of premium value in turning Syria into a failure of a State to match those of Afghanistan and Iraq,
Next stop for the road show of course is Iran, all that oil yummy…
Bad12, from what I can make out the west is panicking. there are no real good options. the chances of Zawahiri being in the pay of the Sauds, let alone the west, are remote. He considers the sauds to be apostate.
The west at the moment is most concerned about assads weapons falling into the hands of the rebels, and who may get their hands on them after that. If the west sends in troops, that’s what they will doing, isolating and destroying as much of assad’s stockpile as they can.
the Russians are moving ships, and marines into the area, probably to be a counter force (ripwire) against escalation, and to protect a pocket for Allawites to flee to. Also, to cover the withdrawal of Russian ‘civilians’.
That’s highly amusing, i always enjoy someone who parrots the news gathered from the MSM as if it were the Gospel,
Lets see now,Zawahiri thinks the Saudi’s are apostate but happily worked alongside Bin Laden, whose family is Saud and part of the ruling class as well as personal friends of the Bush family,
Are you suggesting that the group Bin Laden lead while fighting the Russians in Afghanistan was not funded by US cash funneled from the US via various ‘foundations’ and think-tanks’,
Even more amusing, is the supposed fear of ‘weapons of mass destruction’, now where have we heard that little tale before,
What the US in particular is most concerned about at the moment is the destabilization of the Arab country’s with strong leadership who do not align themselves with the US,
The strategy is to smash these country’s back to the stone-age in terms of intercine tribal and religious sects battling for power, the US can then deal favorably in terms of arms and support with the faction that has control of the oil production,
Bin Laden and any group He headed are essentially mercenaries, they may hate the West and the ruling class of the various Arab potentates, but, are still guns for hire as are a large number of other Arab staffed groups currently aiding in the destruction of the State of Syria,
Feel free tho to allow the mainstream media to tell you what to think of the current situation as it is at the least amusing to examine your belief system which does not seem to have been altered by the events in either Iraq or Afghanistan…
The strategy is to smash these country’s back to the stone-age in terms of intercine tribal and religious sects battling for power, the US can then deal favorably in terms of arms and support with the faction that has control of the oil production,
Don’t forget the tens of billions in reconstruction contracts for western corporations coming in to rebuild infrastructure smashed by western laser guided bombs a la Libya. It’s a great deal: one $50K bomb can create $20M in reconstruction contracts. Excellent return on investment.
I’m glad you find it amusing, but it’s ironic that the amusement is based on so much ignorance.
Yes, Bin laden is (or rather was) a Saud. But his citizenship was revoked at around the time he declared jihad on the regime. This happened a long time ago. You can find his declaration of war on the Sauds in plenty of places.
If you read it, and only that, you’ll find it useful to understanding these guys. You’d be better to read “The Looming Tower” which is very thorough.
The main thing, I guess, is to understand what AQ, Islamic Jihad and related theorists mean by “the near enemy”, and “the far enemy”.
And it’s not accurate to claim that AQ was funded by the CIA. AQ was set up to act as an alternative for jihadis. Bin laden felt that western funding of jihad was counterproductive, that it would co-opt any jihad and prevent sharia being implemented. that’s why he set up “the base” and sought funding from wealthy salafists. When Iraq invaded Kuwait, he offered to use this ‘base’ of supporters and jihadis to wage jihad. The Saud regime turned him down.
none of this stuff is secret, or propaganda, it’s history.
I was going to leave this, but given your demands in another thread that people debate in a manner fitting for this site, or whatever horseshit it is you are saying, I’ll give it a few minutes more, for your amusement.
Are you suggesting that the group Bin Laden lead while fighting the Russians in Afghanistan was not funded by US cash funneled from the US via various ‘foundations’ and think-tanks’,
Yep. I’m saying that. There is little to no credible evidence that the US funded AQ, and nothing at all that is conlcusive. The so called ‘Arab afghans’ were few in number (under 10,000) and pretty much kept to themselves. They were funded by Arabs, including OBL. OBL, late in the war, set up AQ as a database of arab mujaheddin to be used in fighting the ‘near enemy’ That’s why it translates as ‘the base’ and it’s why in those grainy ‘training videos’ you see them doing guerilla warfare training rather than terrorist training.
Those who claim AQ was funded and or created by the CIA or the US, tend to be ignorant about the war and the philosophies of those involved. They assume that because the CIA was providing funds and weapons to mujaheddin that this included AQ. It’s lazy and ignorant,, but suits their purpose.
Even more amusing, is the supposed fear of ‘weapons of mass destruction’, now where have we heard that little tale before
All sorts of places. the most relevant would be Iraq after the first gulf war. The regime admits it has them, the rest of the world’s intelligence agencies agree. Are you saying they do not? based on what? A logical fallacy along the lines of ‘Bush claimed Saddam had wmd in 2003 but he didn’t, therefore all such claims are false” perhaps? (And I’ll just note in passing here that I never mentioned WMD, the concern around that is real of course, but the missile stocks and other conventional weaponry is just as troubling).
Surely you could not be that stupid. So please. if you doubt he has chemical weapons, outline the reasons for that doubt in the face of the evidence that he does have them.
Bin Laden and any group He headed are essentially mercenaries, they may hate the West and the ruling class of the various Arab potentates, but, are still guns for hire as are a large number of other Arab staffed groups currently aiding in the destruction of the State of Syria,
Citation very much required, because that is hilarious. If one reads the histories of AQ and Blackwater, one is struck by the similarit.., nah, that’s just fucking daft.
Feel free tho to allow the mainstream media to tell you what to think of the current situation as it is at the least amusing to examine your belief system which does not seem to have been altered by the events in either Iraq or Afghanistan…
So come on, tell me about my belief system and how it related to those wars, and how it didn’t change.
And then, tell me where you get your information from, if not from the media. Because at the moment it looks like you reject something if it is said in the media, as long as it doesn’t conform to your preconceived notions about how things ‘really are’.
It’s all pretty weak, and anticipated in my comment.
You’ve ignored most of what I said, and have, as predicted, conflated mujaheddin with AQ.
Here’s your initial; claim:
You have to get with the real picture, prior to September 11 Al Qaeda were US funded and armed assets during the Soviet/Afghan war
Operation cyclone was about supporting the mujaheddin, and there is no conclusive evidence that OBL was funded. The implication that he was directly funded by the US is even harder to substantiate, which is probably why you are having such a hard time coming up with any good direct sources or quotes.
I’ll repost this in the relevant thread and hopefully we’ll see something substantive.
I really want to hear about my belief system and the evidence for doubt about Assad’s weaponry
Where is anyone in the western MSM calling it a humanitarian mission ( as opposed to reporting that it is being called that by the syrian rebels)? (Your link is 404d and I can’t find it).
Here is a copy of the guys peace proposal from back in september:
(Hope that link works, you might need to register to FP to see it, which is free to do and well worth while, even if just to see what FP pros are saying).
There is nothing too surprising in it. Mohamed al-Zawahiri is a founding member of the Egyptian Islamic Jihad, and his ‘peace proposal’ reflects that. ‘Sharia law = peace’ pretty much.
Eve: not seeing any justification for your claim that the ‘MSM’ are calling it a humanitarian mission. That piece, and it looks to be the one you linked to, outlines the links between violent Islamic extremists and the rebels in some detail.
No you are right. The “rebels” are telling us he was there on a humanitarian mission. And the article is faithfully repeating that. While claiming that Assad will no doubt try to make the most of the capture of this friendly old man who was according to the “rebels” only trying to broker deals so aid could get through and daffodils could grow in peace.
The article reports some facts.
– The regime claims about the capture
– The rebel’s response to those claims
– Some background on some of the rebel groups.
You stated that the MSM had never suggested that al Zawahiri had been on a humanitarian mission. I put it to you that by omitting his connection with extremely unpleasant CIA financed “rebels” and these “rebels” claiming that Zawahiri was only in Syria because of humanitarian reasons the did not dispel the notion that under the circumstances it would have been extremely unlikely that he was there because he wanted to be nice.
In fact they suggested that Assad would do just that, implying that just because Zawahiri was in Syria talking with “rebels” and with his violent al Qaeda background this did not mean he was there for nefarious reasons and that Assad would just use his capture for propaganda reasons.
Other than that your comment is disingenuous as you were the one “complaining” that the MSM had not in fact claimed themselves that Z was in Syria for Humanitarian reasons. I like it when you do that because while I know you won’t go to any of the link I give there are many who do which helps spreading information which might allow people to make up their mind in different ways than the Propaganda machine would like
I put it to you that by omitting his connection with extremely unpleasant CIA financed “rebels” and these “rebels” claiming that Zawahiri was only in Syria because of humanitarian reasons the did not dispel the notion that under the circumstances it would have been extremely unlikely that he was there because he wanted to be nice.
Well, let’s see what the ‘MSM’ said after reporting the conflicting claims about what the claimed presence of Zawahiri means:
Ayman al-Zawahiri, who took over as al-Qa’ida leader following the killing of Osama bin Laden, has declared that it is the duty of Muslims to take part in a jihad against the “pernicious, cancerous regime” of Bashar al-Assad and warned the opposition against depending on the West for help.
Jabhat al-Nusra, an Islamist rebel group with links to al-Qai’da, has become increasingly powerful in the conflict, overshadowing the more moderate fighters, and its leader, Abu Muhammad al-Julani, is said to be in personal contact with Ayman al-Zawahiri.
There is also evidence of groups of foreign volunteers, albeit not in large numbers, joining the uprising. Mohamed al-Zawahiri has, however, denied in the past that he wanted to get involved in the Syrian struggle. Speaking in Cairo recently, he stated that he had no plans to join the rebellion. Mr Zawahiri spent 14 years in an Egyptian prison on charges of being involved in the assassination of President Anwar Sadat in 1981 and taking part in terrorist acts. But he has protested his innocence and insisted that he now devotes his time to attempt reconciliation between jihadists and mainstream Islam.
Mohamed al-Zawahari is a former military commander of the Islamic Jihad movement, but has, he has stressed, turned away from violence. He claims to have been a conduit for talks between hardline Salafist groups in the Sinai and the Egypt’s Muslim Brotherhood government. Last year Mr Zawahiri offered to help in negotiations between the US and Islamists and maintained that his attempts at reconciliation had made him a target for hardline Islamists who have accused him of betraying the cause. There is no evidence that his offer was taken seriously by the US administration.
The reports of his presence in Syria have come from rebel factions but remain unconfirmed.
Deraa, near the Jordanian border, has, however, become a stronghold for Jabhat al-Nusra where its “emir”, the organisation has announced, is Abu Julaybib, a brother-in-law of the former leader of al-Qa’ida in Iraq who was killed in an American air strike in 2006.
They detail the reported presence of various AQ related people and groups within Syria, if anything, that supports the regimes claims, does it not? Are they denying, or downplaying the links to AQ?
What would rather they do:
1) Censor the claims by the rebels and just report the regimes claims?
Or
2)report the claims of all sides, and the known links, and allow readers to exercise their judgement about the claims made?
PB, are you really trying to use logic on a ticking fruitcake? Well good look and I applaud your optimism, but keep that up and we might be questioning your sanity too.
Labour is at a critical point in its life cycle. If it doesn’t make changes soon it will continue to slowly slide backwards in the poles. The main winner will be the Greens. The other winner will be National as the swing voters will chose to stay with them.
I have been a member of the Labour Party for a mere 18 months, and its been a real let down the way MP’s treat members… “amateur” is the word that comes to mind. The Caucus need a real shake up otherwise long term Labour support is going to continue to decline. But then you get the impression that many in the caucus don’t really care about the Party in the long term!
(ps: I have always had the impression that TRP has a contact in the ABC club.)
National’s friends are wanting the Commerce Commission to be gutted because it is attempting to reduce Chorus charges.
According to an earnest sounding Simon Botherway on Radio New Zealand the surge in the share market experienced last year is threatened because investors will be afraid that the Commission “has become an activist body for consumers and forgotten about the risk that investors take with their money.” Obviously the return to investors should be the only concern of the Government body.
He makes no comment about whether or not Chorus’s charges were justified. Perhaps he thought this to be irrelevant.
This typifies the attitude of the wealthy and was an underlying cause of the global financial crisis. Returns to investors are never enough and any entity which stands in the way must be weakened.
We have still got a long way to go before New Zealand’s utilities quake before regulators. It’s the usual drill:
(A) Ask the (insert major industry) for advice on how to regulate, to which they reply it’s too hard, truly, and should be best left to self-regulation. Under National this usually works, but often works under Labour as well.
(B) When the self-regulation idea fails, the (insert major industry) sets itself up as the collective wisdom in this terrifyingly complex field and provides all the research for the government Department drafting the regulations. And then poach their staff.
(C) When the limits of this – and all the stalling entailed within it – are reached, the (insert major industry) seeks “peer review” from “international best practise” which a thin little country like this couldn’t know, and all the major consultants in the world for (insert major industry) know that the government job will be a one-off, but the industry will be around for ever buttering their bread.
(D) After several years, and a change of government, which (insert relevant industry) 3rd party funded up the wazoo to get in, the Board of the regulator is formed after all manner of golf games have been played
(E) The regulations are finally enacted, which are so complicated because of the size and power and national importance of the (insert major industry) that only a real dork of a lawyer couldn’t find a loophole, and finally
(F) By the time everyone’s filed and counter-filed and appealed to all relevant layers, there’s been no regulation for well over a decade. Or another fresh government has decided the whole thing just wasn’t worthwhile so we all just have to start again with a different kind of regulatory system, new legislation, and a restructure of the regualtors themselves.
This is practise we are seeing now, as with the massive utility price case we see down at the Wellington High Court which has been going on for several years now and will be appealed for several more.
Or you could do what the last Labour leader with any balls did with a major utility: cut their head off. Poor old Telecom. They hadn’t realised that David Cunliffe had ensured that the Cabinet SubCommittee had been fully delegated to make the decision to cleave them in half, rather than needing the next full Cabinet meeting.
That was not only policy in action, that was Leadership. That’s what it feels like.
+1 an interesting analysis would be the amount in each utility bill that goes to lawyers, auditors, staff and management overhead required to deal with compliance issues including base regulation, comm comm tiffs etc, so in effect the whole shooting match that’s grown since these were all gov’t departments.
Some are nonsense and must be challenged as the regulators often go ‘how about this, that should give us all something to do…’ and some are essential to prevent profiteering. Problem is the big money isn’t spent by the rule makers it’s the Utilities who invest big to ensure they stay one step ahead, all at the consumers cost.
DC showed how it’s done with TCom and they showed arrogance and contempt for the open market. IMO it effectively set a standard the cowering caucus know they’ll not measure up to.
I miss the box on the voting form to re-nationalise industries, that would be an interesting result.
The only thing that needs to be done with utilities is that they should be brought back into government ownership as a state monopoly. It’s the only way to get lower costs and it does that by getting rid of the mass duplication of competition.
Hey IrishBill you issued a major policy challenge on the weekend. Big call for the authors here, and the editors.
When are you going to start turning that into a project – something beyond the usual wishlists and fantasies and theoretical catastrophies I see here usually?
Over at the National Business Review there is a lively comments section underneath their printing of Brian Edwards’ now infamous paean for “Sir” Paul Holmes.
What makes it more interesting than usual is that one of the commenters is one David Walden, a puffy advertising man who, together with Murray Deaker, ran the idiotic Black Heart campaign in 2003, which had to be closed down after a series of incidents, including restaurateurs refusing to serve the Alinghi crew, and some supporters physically threatening the Alinghi crew members’ families.
With not even the slightest sense of irony, Walden has posted the following gem: “God I hate the small minds in this country who take a swipe at anyone who has the balls to put their head above the parapet, have a go , and succeed. Get a life!”
Why don’t YOU comment? It’s easy and you’ll get straight through….
Back at work again. The DIY “holiday” is now behind me. No more cables to hide, washing lines to install, doors and windows to fix, toilets to stop dribbling, computers to change hard drives with SSD’s, etc etc.
I got a lot less done than I wanted on The Standard.
C’mon, McFliper, you c’n do it! Best strategy, seeing as you’ve already read the offending article, is to skip the mediocre thing and go straight to the comments.
Yep. I prefer to let them rot, if they’re well out of my way. It’s only when I’m in danger of stepping in one that I feel compelled to manhandle it out of the way.
Shearer shows he means it – by Mike Smith – December 21, 2011
Quoted below in full, without further comment.
Labour’s new leader promised a fresh approach. He’s delivered already in his speech in reply today. Gone is the ritual opening denunciation of the government’s programme – Shearer begins with where a new Labour government would start.
He puts Labour firmly on the path to winning in 2014 – the intention is clearly stated and the programme for the clean, green and clever New Zealand is exactly the right one. He understands what New Zealanders expect of their MPs. It’s a very good start.
Far be it for anyone to point out that being positive and looking forward might be just as legitimate a political tactic as doing nothing but criticising and whinging from the sidelines like a tool.
I’m not doing nothing. I’m questioning these above statements.
When an opposition party remains as quiet as Labour have this year over the vast array of issues occurring, you can be assured that a large number of potential voters will assume what I have in the above comment. Crying and complaining about that being stated as much as you like, however it won’t change the veracity of it.
It goes like this: “Why bother voting? The two main parties are much of a muchness”
Sound familiar?
Many voters not voting is o.k for whoever gets in, they still get the baubles of office. This is not-so good for the general welfare of the country however. Is this type of moral hazard going on in our main opposition party?
You are welcome to be positive. At present I see no real reason for that with regard to Labour’s recent behaviour.
Any business would know that complaints are an opportunity for improvement. Far better than people having a negative thoughts/experiences and keeping quiet. Word of mouth is the most effective advertising. But of course, McFliper, you know that, that is probably why you wrote your comment. Here’s a thought: instead of complaining about well-founded comments, how about complaining to the Labour caucus that their message ain’t strong enough? That way we will both be happy.
yeah sorry, I wasn’t actually meaning anybody here when I wrote it, and that’s the truth. Sorry I didn’t express myself properly. Possibly linked to the wrong comment, too.
Indeed, part of my opposition to the seemingly incessant anti-shearer stuff some commenters put forward here is expressly because this forum is not just an echo-chamber. And I fundamentally disagree that nact and lab are “much of a muchness”.
But I think that putting positives forward rather than attacking directly is a legitimate tactic in this case:
a) key and nact will not rise to it. They don’t give a shit, and will lie without a flicker of doubt. This lessens the effectiveness;
b) Mana/Greens/NZ1 are attacking, and even some good work by labour front benches (Ardern has been very active in areas of my interest). Rather than overload the opposition with negativity, I think the leader (whomever it be) should provide vision (in a positive comparison to when Key lays down the credibility of his ministers to save himself);
c) Labour did the attack thing all through the last term, to little avail. Time for a reconsider, is my guess.
Yes, complaints are an opportunity for improvement. But sometimes the squeakiest wheel is not needed, at which point it behoves one to consider the cost/benefit of just letting it seize up or fall off rather than feeding it more grease.
ps sorry about the handle change – form autofill on another machine 🙂
Ah that’s a relief, I thought I was heading for another “be positive; no I won’t” type conversation. There have been enough of them!
Yes it is good to list the positives I agree with most of the list apart from c), which I don’t think amounted to much compared with the other parties. I really do have a real worry about what type of government Labour are planning to create next time they are in power and this concern largely comes from the weakness surrounding their attacks on this current “government” (well that’s what is is commonly called, anyway…more closely resembling a circus if you asked me…).
I usually get rather annoyed with people saying that Nat and Labour are much of a muchness, there is a distinct difference when each party is in power (for those on the extreme ends of poverty/wealth anyway). My comment was really trying to illustrate what I believe is a general impression created by a lackadaisical opposition style…didn’t Labour have an approach of cooperation with the last term’s Government in order to come across as “fair and reasonable”? What effect did that have on the voter turn-out? Just sharing my train of thought here, not hard and fast conclusions, however they are getting that way….
That is an interesting comment re letting the squeaky wheel seize up…that is a good point.
The trouble with the 2011 campaign is that it can be made to say nothing of note.
People who want to point out Labour being reasonable as a cause of their turnout, can.
People who want to say Labour was “too left” in the campaign by going back to its roots and scaring off voters, can.
People who want to say labour was “too negative”, can.
It’s like 2014: if the next two years are like 2012, then Labour’s low vote will be blamed on Shearer by Cunliffe supporters, and blamed on negative-nellies by Shearer supporters (or those who are happy for any change from National and hope that the minor parties rather than Labour will drive the major policy shifts).
There’s also an instinctive bias that what we recall of Labour 2008-11 is what others recall. My personal impression is that Labour left the policy push too late, and that prior to that they still had the tired look from the 2008 defeat.
I think that if Labour bounce around policy ideas this year (and yes have an open leadership vote if Cunliffe or anyone wants to run), they can have a bit more “oomph” in 2014 than 08/11.
..which kinda leads to a question I have been pondering recently. Are the Labour Party doing any market research on their strengths and weaknesses, as in, doing some sort of information gathering on what might have been the cause of their poor results last election? Or low voter turnout?
I realize this type of research would never be entirely accurate, however it would be good to know that some sort of feedback loop was being conducted; trends could probably be discovered.
Talk to the membership.
NO NEED FOR MARKET RESEARCH. That is what is f#c@ing us.
We are a political party. The values, issues, concerns, worries, ambitions and the family, community, business activities of our members is our information database.
That is why we changed our constitution, so that the input of the members will have more influence on the Caucus.
Our MPs, NZ Council reps, Policy and Sectoral people are connected to most facets of society and the economy. (Perhaps a few in the “Beltway” of Wellington are not!)
Most of the frustration expressed in these pages in the past year have been a cry for the Caucus to listen to the MEMBERS.
hmm yes…I see what you mean McFlock re KV’s response (heh), however the links you provided appeared to be talking about focus groups for policies. I was more talking about perceptions and finding peoples’ reasons for the non-vote…I think there would be important information to be had out of such research. In fact I have already commented on what I figure might be one cause.
Khandalla Viper (&McFlock) I believe I am referring to something different than what you are talking about. The end result of what you promote in your comment and what I am referring to may achieve the same thing; more connection with the voters.
Lets not be forgetting that a lot (if not most) voters are not reading up on policies at election-time*; there is something else that they are basing their vote on.
*I admit this is an assumption, yet one I am prepared to risk making.
It is my perception that Labour have been really flailing around, kind of stabbing in the dark, as to their general approach, for years. Policies are very important (obviously), however strategy is too. I believe Nat is popular solely due to strategy, not policies. Isn’t the Asset Sales policy a case in point? Knowing what is turning voters off is pretty important information, and when it comes to elections I suspect (sadly) that policy is a very small part of what makes a Party popular.
“And I fundamentally disagree that nact and lab are “much of a muchness””
I can’t speak for anyone else, but my version of that complaint is that Labour has, in effect, become part of the mechanism of shutting out opposition to the assumptions of neoliberalism, or whatever you wish to call it.
It’s like the ‘good cop’ to National’s ‘bad cop’ – but the overall effect is the same; to get the electorate to submit to the ‘inevitability’ of a deregulated, market-based, ‘non-political’ means of making collective determinations about our future as a society.
To the extent that Labour continues to cleave to the economic individualism rationale for solving social issues (e.g., housing crises) it remains a non-left party by any substantive definition of what the term ‘left’ means.
Only through proudly advocating collective, political means to solve social issues could it correctly be called a left-wing party. Remember that even Douglas claimed that he wanted the same ‘ends’ as Labour had always wanted – he was just implementing different ‘means’.
The means are actually what distinguish ‘left’ and ‘right’ because the means are the ends – it’s all about different ways to run a society, after all.
It is in that sense that I think the current Labour caucus is part of the same ‘symphony’ and acts (no doubt unwittingly) in concert with National – albeit Labour performs a different ‘movement’ from that performed by National, with correspondingly different ‘tones’.
@Puddleglum
I fundamentally agree with your comment, Your first two paragraphs describe well, in my mind, why I hear many many comments re “the two main parties being much of a muchness”.
In the bigger picture, perhaps they are not so very different, however, when it comes to details, I disagree with them being (exactly) the same. i.e. it does make a difference having a Labour/coalition government. i.e when someone says to me “I’m not voting because all parties are the same” I implore them to vote (as long as they seem like a left wing voter!!).
I believe that even small differences matter greatly – often to many people.
‘Good cops’ are better to have dealing with you than ‘bad cops’.
Voting matters immensely – and always will – in that way. It is one way of making society less painful for many people.
My father always used the old line – ‘If you don’t vote, you can’t complain’; and he was a lifelong socialist (having given up on the Communist Party at age 13). The lesser of two evils is still the lesser of two evils.
Labour is not a revolutionary party and hasn’t been for decades. I doubt it ever will be again.
Reversing neoliberal market-based approaches needs revolutionary perspectives forced by the minor parties so that the accepted norm shifts left again. Kiwibank, rail, are cases in point.
People who want a fundamental reversal of key’s policies, let alone lab4, need to givetheir vote to either parliamentary left parties, or even get more extreme left parties up to approaching 1% so that parliamentary parties start poaching their policies. Or the ~1%ers even get elected themselves.
Give power to the greens and mana and labour will move left despite those in its caucus who are idiot careerists. The difference between labour and national is that national need act to make them look like a moderating force rather than looters and thieves. Labour want to do good but are too afraid. It is still a fundamental difference.
People by nature have a bias towards optimism and expecting the best outcomes. That’s why a slogan like towards a brighter future is so manipulative and cynical. Sometimes “optimistic” is exactly the same as “unrealistic”.
“DPMC’s guidance note sets out how ministers and officials should talk publicly about listed companies, stressing the importance of making any market-moving decision outside of trading hours.
Ministers should only make a major statement that could affect a listed company when trading is open when there is a compelling reason.”
Opposition unbound, with National caught in the worst of both worlds.
So the Asset Sale Opposition Leadership mantle Race begins again: Which Labour or Green or NZ First MP will be the first to talk the price down?
Posted this on Sunday night, reposting now to catch a few more peeps, relevant since we are talking about more manufacturing job losses in NZ.
Rolls Royce Engines: the beauty of high value manufacturing
An amazing documentary, showing the kinds of wealth, capability and community that high tech, high added value manufacturing brings. It also makes it clear that this kind of expertise is gained over many years or decades and has to be protected and nurtured over the long term.
Oh that was lovely – incredibly beautiful, functional, high performance works of engineering and art.
Unfortunately the nagging voice of global warming in the back of my mind made it feel a bit like Pr0n
Yes, they are in the US context, but campaigning has changed – and it’s more than just flinging up a Facebook page or tweeting now and then. Buying ads on Youtube to get younger voters for example.
Target advertising messages/policy discussions at the medium for each market;
target each speech to the audience;
get as much facetime as possible;
release news statements to frame discussion as soon as possible – lead events don’t just react (or even worse do nothing);
involve your party membership in electioneering activities;
maintain contact with voters who show interest;
keep initiating contact with voters who don’t;
use party activists to register electors in target areas;
get the vote out on the day.
more Habbadashery-Why do we look at injustice? Why do we tolerate wrong? Destruction and violence are before us; strife and conflict abounds. Therefore the law is paralyzed (aware of the backlog in the courts since “reform school”), and justice rarely prevails.
-You have made men like fish in the sea, like sea creatures that have no ruler. The wicked foe pulls all of them up with hooks, he catches them in his net. he gathers them up in his dragnet; for by his net he lives in luxury and enjoys the choicest food. is he to keep on emptying his net, destroying nations without mercy?
“Woe to him who piles up stolen goods and makes himself wealthy by extortion! How long must this go on? Will not your debtors suddenly arise? Will they not wake and make you tremble? Then you will become their victim. For the revelation awaits an appointed time; It speaks of an end and it will not prove false. Though it linger, wait for it;
“Nourish the cock, but do not sacrifice him, since he is sacred to the sun and the moon”(forget the greek I think it was)
-every pebble is an exception so Blam Blam blame?
“Allegory is life giving and and biblical “literalism” as meant today, is life denying”. Now all these things happened unto them for examples and they are written for our admonition.
(I’m not looking for a New England) William Wilberforce read the KJ every day (obviously I don’t) and had it’s cadences and rhythms running through his veins= Obama-care
meanwhile, now the Commerce Commission are under attack (for being a “consumer Watchdog” ??? wtf) by Investors and their fund managers
Greed! was a discussion I had with a tangata whenua tane the other day; “No Limit to it”, he asserted. Pushin’ buttons? see the supermarkets after the New Year break? people were clearly emaciated and needed some more chippies and soft drink.
A personal note to Colonial Viper regarding your comment yesterday:
“Like “freedom fries”? Not sure if this is where you are coming from, but I have a dislike of the American-style use of ‘freedom’ as a word pseudo-representing all that is good and wholesome and God-fearing in the world.”
For a first hand account of what it is like to lose virtually all of one’s “freedoms” at the hands of a dictatorial regime, contact an amiable acquaintance of mine, Kim Dotcom.
Hi AmaKiwi. For real ‘democracy’ and ‘freedom’ we have to move beyond a sole ballot box focus to that of broader democratic institutions, checks and balances (which might include binding referenda), and values throughout society.
Specifically applied to the Kim Dotcom case, the police and the SIS need to be acting in ways which uphold democracy, natural justice and due process, not offshore corporatism.
Ouch. Didn’t really expect that the server would very slowly resize it’s disk footprint because I wanted more CPU. But it is ok now after the site was offline for an hour.
I’ll see if that fixes the peaking issues from todays dose of bots.
Tommorrow’s task is less of a problem – round two of the backup systems.
Buzz from the Beehive Under something described as a “rebalance” of its immigration rules, the Government has adopted four of five recommendations made in an independent review released in July, The fifth, which called on the government to specify criteria for out-of-hours compliance visits similar to those used during ...
Some of you might know Gerard Otto (G), and his G News platform. This morning he wrote a letter to Christopher Luxon which I particularly enjoyed, and with his agreement I’m sharing it with you in this guest newsletter.If you’d like to make a contribution to support Gerard’s work you ...
Lindsay Mitchell writes – While there will not be another quarterly release of benefit numbers prior to the election, limited weekly reporting continues and is showing an alarming trend. Because there is a seasonal component to benefit number fluctuations it is crucial to compare like with like. In ...
A close analysis of the Treasury assessment of the Medium Term in its PREFU 2023 suggests the economy may be entering a new phase.Brian Easton writes – Last week I explained that the forecasts in the just published Treasury Pre-election Economic and Fiscal Update (PREFU 2023) was ...
It’s been a while since we looked at the latest with the City Rail Link and there’s been some fantastic milestones recently. To start with, and most recently, CRL have released an awesome video showing a full fly-through of one of the tunnels. Come fly with us! You asked for ...
We are heading into another period of fast population growth without matching increased home building or infrastructure investment.Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR:Labour and National detailed their house building and migration approaches over the weekend, with both pledging fast population growth policies without enough house building or infrastructure investment ...
Labour leader Chris Hipkins yesterday took the gloves off and laid into National and its leader Christopher Luxon. For many in Labour – and particularly for some at the top of the caucus and the party — it would not have been a moment too soon. POLITIK is aware ...
The leaders have had their go, they’ve told us the “what?” and the “why?” of their promises. Now it’s the turn of the would be Finance Ministers to tell us the “how?”, the “how much?”, and the “when?”A chance for those competing for the second most powerful job in the ...
Mike Grimshaw writes – Over the past 30-odd years it’s become almost an orthodoxy to blame or invoke neoliberalism for the failures of New Zealand society. On the left the usual response goes something like, neoliberalism is the cause of everything that’s gone wrong and the answer ...
A chronological listing of news and opinion articles posted on the Skeptical Science Facebook Page during the past week: Sun, Sep 17, 2023 thru Sat, Sep 23, 2023. Story of the Week Opinion: Let’s free ourselves from the story of economic growth A relentless focus on economic growth has ushered in ...
Have you been looking out of your window for signs of the apocalypse? Don’t worry, you haven’t been door knocked by a representative of the Brian Tamaki party. They’re probably a bit busy this morning spruiking salvation, or getting ready to march on our parliament, which is closed. No, I’ve ...
Climate Town is the YouTube channel of Rollie Williams and a ragtag team of climate communicators, creatives and comedians. They examine climate change in a way that doesn’t make you want to eat a cyanide pill. Get informed about the climate crisis before the weather does it for you. The latest ...
A close analysis of the Treasury assessment of the Medium Term in its PREFU 2023 suggests the economy may be entering a new phase.Last week I explained that the forecasts in the just published Treasury Pre-election Economic and Fiscal Update (PREFU 2023) was similar to the May Budget BEFU, ...
Back in June, we learned that Kiri Allan was a Parliamentary bully. And now there's another one: Labour MP Shanan Halbert: The Labour Party was alerted to concerns about [Halbert's] alleged behaviour a year ago but because staffers wanted to remain anonymous, no formal process was undertaken [...] The ...
Its that time in the election season where the status quo parties are busy accusing each other of having fiscal holes in a desperate effort to appear more "responsible" (but not, you understand, by promising to tax wealth or land to give the government the revenue it needs to do ...
JERRY COYNE writes – If you want to see what the government of New Zealand is up to with respect to science education, you can’t do better than listening to this video/slideshow by two exponents of the “we-need-two-knowledge-systems” view. I’ve gotten a lot of scary stuff from Kiwi ...
Buzz from the Beehive First, we were treated to the news (from Finance Minister Grant Robertson) that the economy has turned a corner and New Zealand never was in recession. This was triggered by statistics which showed the economy expanded 0.9 per cent in the June quarter, twice as much as ...
It has taken 17 months to get a comment published pointing out the obvious errors in the Scafetta (2022) paper in GRL. Back in March 2022, Nicola Scafetta published a short paper in Geophysical Research Letters (GRL) purporting to show through ‘advanced’ means that ‘all models with ECS > ...
TL;DR: In the middle of a climate emergency and in a city prone to earthquakes, Victoria University of Wellington announced yesterday it would stop teaching geophysics, geographic information science and physical geography to save $22 million a year and repay debt. Climate change damage in Aotearoa this year is already ...
For nearly thirty years the pundits have been telling the minor parties that they must be good little puppies and let the big dogs decide. The parties with a plurality of the votes cast must be allowed to govern – even if that means ignoring the ...
Another poll, another 27 for Labour. It was July the last time one of the reputable TV company polls had Labour's poll percentage starting with a three, so the limbo question is now being asked: how low can you go?It seems such an unlikely question because this doesn't feel like the kind ...
After the trench warfare of Tuesday night, when the two major parties went head to head, last night was the turn of the minor parties. Hosts Newshub termed it “thePowerbrokers' Debate”.Based on the latest polls the four parties taking part - ACT, the Greens, New Zealand First, and Te ...
Hi,You can’t make this stuff up.People involved with Sound of Freedom, the QAnon-infused movie about anti-child trafficker Tim Ballard, are dropping like flies. I won’t ruin your day by describing it here, but Vice reports that footage has emerged of executive producer Paul Hutchinson being inappropriate with a 16-year-old trafficking ...
The trading banks yesterday concluded that though GDP figures released yesterday show the economy is not in recession, it may well soon be. Nevertheless, the fact that GDP has gone up 0.8 per cent in the latest quarter and that StatsNZ revised the previous quarter’s figure to show a ...
.Thanks for reading Frankly Speaking ! Subscribe for free to receive new posts and support my work..A recent political opinion poll (20 September) on TV1 presented what could only be called bleak news for the Left Bloc:National: 37%, down two points equating to 46 seatsLabour: 27%, down one point (34 ...
Open access notables At our roots Skeptical Science is about cognition of the results of climate science research in the minds of the entire human population. Ideally we'd be perfectly communicating understanding of Earth's climate, and perfectly understood. We can only approximate that, but hopefully converging closer to perfection. With ...
Coming Over The Top: Rory Stewart's memoir, Politics On The Edge, lays bare the dangerous inadequacies of the Western World's current political model.VERY FEW NEW ZEALANDERS will have heard of Rory Stewart. Those with a keen eye for the absurdities of politics may recognise the name as that of the ...
A bit of a narrative has been building that these two guys, your Chris and your Chris, are not so very different.It's true to a point. The bread and butter timidity has been dispiriting to watch, if you have a progressive disposition. It does leave the two of them relatively ...
Richard Prebble writes – There was a knockout winner of the Leaders’ debate. Check for yourself. Recall how they looked. If you cannot remember or missed it, the debate is on TVNZ’s website. Turn off the sound and ask: “Which one looks like a Prime Minister?” ...
Just like National when it was in government, Labour bought nominal GDP growth and momentum by pulling as hard as it could on the population lever. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTLDR:Stats NZ has reported better-than-expected GDP growth in the June quarter, thanks largely to record-high net migration of ...
We already know that the National Party are de facto climate change deniers who want to reverse virtually all climate change policy. So how do they think they'll cut emissions? According to their climate change spokesperson, polluting corporations will do it out of the goodness of their hearts: The ...
Dairy farmers, or at least those who are also shareholders in the Fonterra dairy co-operative would have received a second dose of good news this week, when the dairy giant reported a massive profit jump. This followed news of a better sale at the Fonterra GDT auction this week. Net ...
A longtime New Zealand broadcaster and commentator is taking a theatrical turn in advance of the General Election to draw different kinds of attention to the issues New Zealanders will be voting on in October.In a pre-election event that invites audiences to consider New Zealand politics through a theatrical lens ...
Our busy ministers – desperately busy trying to whip up voters’ support as their poll support sags, among other things – have added just one item of news to the government’s official website over the past 24 hours or so. It’s the news that the Government has accepted the Environment ...
On Monday, we learned that Queenstown, one of the country's largest tourist destinations, suddenly had to boil its water to avoid cryptosporidium. Now, it looks like it will last for months. Why? The usual reason: they'd been keeping rates low: Queenstown could face months of having to boil water ...
This week’s ONE News-Verian poll had the National/ACT coalition teetering on the edge of being able to govern alone while – just as precariously – having its legislative agenda vulnerable to a potential veto by Winston Peters in the House. So close, but so perilous. During the run-up to election ...
National Leader Christopher Luxon likes to bag the way the Resource Management Act worked. Though it has been repealed and replaced by the Labour government, Luxon plans, before Christmas, to repeal the new legislation and, for the foreseeable future, revert to the old Act that he has consistently criticised. ...
This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections On August 16, 2022, President Biden signed the Inflation Reduction Act into law. Over a year later, its climate provisions remain a hot topic. The law’s proponents argue that it’s created a boom in domestic manufacturing jobs within the United States while paving ...
New Zealand’s dairy farmers will be relieved that prices rose for the second time this month at the latest Fonterra GDT auction. The encouraging feature of the sale was the activity of Chinese buyers who drove up prices. As a result, the GDT price index rose 4.6%, helped by a 4.6% lift ...
Here is a review of last night’s Democracy McNuggets debate, delivered in the style of last night's Democracy McNuggets debate.McNugget #1This format was very advantageous for the man who speaks in lazy SLAM DUNK.To hark back a few editions: The lazy SLAM DUNK doesn’t bother to make its case. It simply offers ...
Unfortunately I will need to take a bit of time off from this blog. After months of misdiagnoses and a change in GPs, my precious son is in Starship Hospital about to have major surgery. He already has had one … Continue reading → ...
Buzz from the BeehiveSource: ANZ The latest balance of payments statistics – providing a broad measure of what the country earns and spends internationally – gave grist to Finance Minister Grant Robertson’s publicity mill today. The current account deficit narrowed to 7.5 per cent of ...
Can This Be Possible? For nearly thirty years the pundits have been telling the minor parties that they must be good little puppies and let the big dogs decide. The parties with a plurality of the votes cast must be allowed to govern – even if that means ignoring the ...
Since we began worrying about climate change, the market fundamentalists have pushed the idea of "offsets" rather than actual emissions reductions. There's just one atmosphere after all, so in theory it doesn't matter where the reductions are made, so you can just pay someone on the other side of the ...
Ministers are pretending the former PM has simply vanished.Graham Adams writes – Late last week, Tova O’Brien asked Grant Robertson on her Stuff podcast if Jacinda Ardern should be “rolled out” to “galvanise the base” to help save Labour’s faltering campaign. Robertson laughed. ”I’m sure for ...
Owners of property deemed at risk from climate change related floods and rising sea levels will increasingly find their access to affordable insurance shut off. Some may become ‘prisoners’ in their uninsurable and therefore unbankable homes. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR:IAG, which insures more than 60% of homes ...
So it’s kind of obligatory to start with the boxing analogy…In the red corner, you’ll know him from his red hair and his red heart, the champion of achievable socialism, weighing in when given the opportunity - it’s Chris.And fighting out of the blue corner, you’ll know him from his ...
Last night’s TVOne debate may well reinforce the idea that the minor parties will determine this election. Prime Minister Chris Hipkins and National leader Christopher Luxon ended their one-and-a-half hours with Luxon probably slightly ahead, though a stalemate might be a more realistic assessment. But there was nothing of ...
On February 14, 2023 we announced our Rebuttal Update Project. This included an ask for feedback about the added "At a glance" section in the updated basic rebuttal versions. This weekly blog post series highlights this new section of one of the updated basic rebuttal versions and serves as a ...
Aliens landed in the seaside village this morning. Just like every other cruise tourist who gets carted over here by Fullers and dumped at the bus stop, they had that bewildered look that said, How do you have fun here?I took them by their goey rubbery arms and said, Come ...
The 2023 general election campaign must be the most hollow in living memory. There really isn’t much that is positive or attractive about the electoral options on offer. This is an election without inspiration. An angry mood for change There is a definite cyncism amongst the public right now – ...
As New Zealand confronts a near-record current account deficit few, if any, of the country’s politicians are talking about it or the underlying problems. NZ’s external deficit is expected to continue narrowing, but at a slower pace than forecast a few months ago. Data out this week is expected ...
Fighting Mad: That which Twenty-First Century progressives most feared, Twenty-First Century progressivism has become. No one old enough to have experienced the emancipatory power of true progressivism: in the factory or on the streets; in the university quad or in the “old school” newsroom; could possibly vote for the parties ...
Buzz from the Beehive Hurrah. Someone in the Beehive has posted a ministerial announcement, the first since Foreign Affairs Minister Nanaia Mahuta last Thursday announced New Zealand will provide humanitarian support to those affected by last week’s earthquake in Morocco. It is somewhat stale news, dated 15 September 2023. It was ...
More investors are eyeing up the market, and first home buyers are feeling the FOMO again. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: Landlords are gearing up to jump back into the housing market as soon as a National-ACT Government is elected, expecting a swathe of repeals to tax rules that ...
* Michael Bassett writes – If Labour ministers and our left-leaning media knew more about New Zealand’s political history they would stop giving so much publicity to National’s tax-cut plans, ill-advised though they might be. The attacks are only increasing the likelihood that National will be elected. In one ...
Debate time: In contrast to most debates, political debates aren’t simply about winning on points of logic, but are also about looking likeable on television – which is why good political debaters often have to pull their punches on TV, lest they seem unkind to dumb animals. Chris Hipkins is ...
Before New Zealand changed to MMP in 1996 there was a lot more interest in certain local contests. First past the post elections were won and lost in key marginal electorate battles, rendering the votes of those in safe seats largely obsolete.These days local contests have little impact on the ...
Both National and ACT are starting to back off some of their hardline positions on tax and spending. And finally, National leader Christopher Luxon has softened his stance on doing a deal with Winston Peters and NZ First. Their moves are subtle and wrapped up in sound-byte-friendly media standup ...
In Art, we find meaning.From Art, we draw deeper understanding of what the hell it’s all about.Kindly now mute your cellphones and please remain behind the velvet ropes as we move through the gallery.She might be contemplating a secret, she might be enjoying a private joke. Perhaps she is simply ...
In Art, we find meaning.From Art, we draw deeper understanding of what the hell it’s all about.Kindly now mute your cellphones and please remain behind the velvet ropes as we move through the gallery.She might be contemplating a secret, she might be enjoying a private joke. Perhaps she is simply ...
The right has a problem with brainwormed conspiracy theorists. They've thoroughly infiltrated NZFirst and ACT, and now it seems they've infiltrated National as well: The National Party candidate favoured to win the Hamilton East electorate held views directly opposed to the party's leader on fluoridation of water and vaccine ...
Pushed by the need for votes, Act’s leader, David Seymour, like Richard Prebble before him, has reached out to the dark side of the New Zealand electorate. Much as he would prefer to pull in support on the strength of Act’s sunny libertarianism, there just ain’t enough Eighteenth Century liberals ...
Buzz from the BeehiveAgain, no news has been posted on the government’s official website over the past 24 hours. Indeed, no news has been posted since Foreign Affairs Minister Nanaia Mahuta last Thursday announced New Zealand would be providing $1 million humanitarian support to Morocco to those affected by ...
Despite the headlines, things are not much worse than at the time of the 2023 budget, but fiscal management is always difficult.Brian Easton writes- The Treasury is required by law to publish a Pre-election Economic and Fiscal Update (PREFU) a few weeks before a general election, ...
It’s a bit bigger than that: the gap between National’s forecast of lost tax revenues from changes to tax rules for landlords and what Treasury predicts is significant, and adds to the $500 million a year predicted shortfall from its foreign buyers tax . File Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The ...
Once upon a time, manifestos were a key feature of the election period, arriving in letterboxes in solid printed form, and full of details of what each party proposed to do and why. These days, we get a little pledge card with a few bullet points on it. So it’s interesting ...
Change is coming. A shakeup of the ministers responsible for New Zealand’s international relations seems almost guaranteed, irrespective of the country’s election result on October 14. Coalition politics are likely to play a key role in appointments related to foreign affairs. On current opinion polling, a government led by the ...
ACT leader David Seymour has declared war on the public service with his promise to sack 15,000 of them. This is probably four times more than National want given the boot under its promise to cut all budgets by 6.5 per cent. But Seymour may have got a foretaste ...
It has been a while since I engaged in meaty Tolkien analysis, so I deem it time to delve into one of the most pressing issues of our age. Namely, the vexed property law issues governing the One Ring in J.R.R. Tolkien’s Middle-earth. I was prompted to offer some ...
We, the public, are making a hiring decision. That’s what this is. As silly as it is to have things like those utterly infernal “Most preferred Prime Minister” polls, largely an outcome of the “presidential style” of politics that has no basis in our system because we simply do ...
New Zealand faces a stark choice this election – vote for Labour to continue to confront the climate emergency with eyes wide open or bury your head in the sand alongside Christopher Luxon. ...
Labour is supercharging its plan to solve the public housing shortfall created by National, promising another 6,000 homes on top of what has already been committed says Labour Housing spokesperson Dr Megan Woods. ...
Labour will back migrant working families by introducing a 10-year multiple-entry parents’ and grandparents’ Super Visa, and make good on the Dawn Raids apology by providing a one-off visa for overstayers who have been in the country ten years or more, Labour’s Immigration Spokesperson Andrew Little says. ...
The Green Party is today welcoming Labour coming to the table to ensure an amnesty for overstayers, but only the Greens will ensure immigration settings actually reflect the reality of people who have been failed by our immigration system. ...
The Green Party is calling on Auckland Council to do more to protect urban trees and housing developer Aedifice Property Group to restore and replant the native forest it cleared, and protect all the remaining trees on Ngahere Road in Pukekohe after a significant number of native trees were cut ...
Latest Police data shows monthly ram raids have hit a two-year low, laying waste to Christopher Luxon’s false claim that there are two ram raids a day says Labour’s Police Spokesperson Ginny Andersen. ...
Free and healthy school lunches will be here to stay if Labour is re-elected, guaranteeing food for our kids who need it most and significant cost saving for parents. ...
The next Labour Government will build a new hospital in Hawke’s Bay, Labour leader Chris Hipkins and Labour health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall announced. ...
The Green Party will keep up the fight to support exploited migrant workers, including pushing to end single employer visas, after the government picked up Green recommendations to improve immigration settings. ...
Green Party co leader James Shaw visited a home in Auckland today that has been upgraded with a wide range of energy improvements, similar to those that would be supported through the Green Party’s Clean Power Payment. ...
The Foreign Minister Nanaia Mahuta’s presence in New York today at the United Nations General Assembly is a contempt of New Zealand’s “caretaker government” convention. Despite the long-standing caretaker convention, Minister Mahuta is today at the UN to sign a highly contentious “Biodiversity Beyond National Jurisdiction (BBNJ) Agreement”, delivering a ...
The Pre-Election Fiscal Update Changes EverythingWithin an hour of this speech there is going to be a debate between the political parties that the media, under MMP, still think are the only parties that matter in this campaign. Both of those parties are riddled with inexperience, as evidenced by ...
National and ACT's tax plans don't add up, and that means deep cuts to the public services New Zealanders rely on, says Labour Campaign Chair Megan Woods. ...
Thank you for your invitation to speak with you this afternoon about New Zealand Foreign Policy. After offering one or two general thoughts about the nature of foreign policy, the focus today will be the Pacific Reset and why its goals remain even more important today as when they were ...
National’s plan to cut policies that are reducing New Zealand’s climate emissions will result in a huge gap in the country’s emissions budgets and could see Kiwis paying significantly more at the petrol pump as a result of Christopher Luxon hiking the ETS price. ...
Labour’s plan to support rooftop solar is a step in the right direction, but falls short of what could be achieved through the Green Party’s Clean Power Payment. ...
Labour will double the number of houses with rooftop solar in New Zealand, lowering household power bills, reducing emissions and boosting renewable electricity generation. ...
A re-elected Labour Government will continue its proud tradition of advancing women’s health, employment, and legal rights Spokesperson for Women Jan Tinetti said. ...
Speaking at the E Tū Election Launch in Auckland today, Green Party co leader Marama Davidson outlined the Green Party’s manifesto commitment to ensure everyone has five weeks of annual leave. ...
A re-elected Labour Government will protect hard-fought workers’ rights and keep the momentum on wage growth to lift incomes for all New Zealanders, leader Chris Hipkins announced today. ...
New Zealand First is proud to announce the Party List for the upcoming 2023 General Election. We have had a great number of applicants and potential candidates moving through the selection process over the past few months. Our final selection for our list proves we have a wide range ...
Massive cuts to public service are on the cards as Nicola Willis has promised to resign if she doesn’t deliver tax cuts but is refusing to make the same commitment if she doesn’t raise enough income from her bungled foreign buyer’s tax. ...
Labour will help more victims of crime achieve justice faster by introducing a formal class-action regime, modernising consent laws and increasing the use of technology to speed up hearings. ...
Labour will deliver the largest ever increase to the number of doctors trained each year, adding an additional 335 doctors a year to our health workforce from 2027, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins has announced. ...
Today’s PREFU has some alarming statistics showing an economy deteriorating and the cost of unaffordable government expenditure, mainly in the 2022 and 2023 budgets. Despite this alarming economic and fiscal picture, political parties are making unaffordable promises, talking about a surplus by 2027, or four years time, all of which ...
If re-elected Labour will make cervical screening services free to all women and people with a cervix aged 25 – 69 years, delivering better cancer care for over 1.4 million New Zealanders. ...
Labour is running a positive, forward-looking campaign that's focused on fixing the cost of living, keeping people and communities safe and investing in education, health and housing. ...
Statements from David Seymour and Winston Peters have called into question whether National would be able to lead a functional government if they were in a position to do so after the election. ...
The Green Party will protect 30% of the ocean by 2030, create an independent Ocean Commission to advise the government, and put a Green Minister for Oceans and Fisheries in charge of making it happen. ...
Regions around the country will get significant boosts of public housing in the next two years, as outlined in the latest public housing plan update, released by the Housing Minister, Dr Megan Woods. “We’re delivering the most public homes each year since the Nash government of the 1950s with one ...
Judicial warrant process for out-of-hours compliance visits 2023/24 Recognised Seasonal Employer cap increased by 500 Additional roles for Construction and Infrastructure Sector Agreement More roles added to Green List Three-month extension for onshore Recovery Visa holders The Government has confirmed a number of updates to immigration settings as part of ...
Tangi ngunguru ana ngā tai ki te wahapū o Hokianga Whakapau Karakia. Tārehu ana ngā pae maunga ki Te Puna o te Ao Marama. Korihi tangi ana ngā manu, kua hinga he kauri nui ki te Wao Nui o Tāne. He Toa. He Pou. He Ahorangi. E papaki tū ana ...
The lifting of COVID-19 isolation and mask mandates in August has resulted in a return of almost $50m in savings and recovered contingencies, Minister of Health Dr Ayesha Verrall announced today. Following the revocation of mandates and isolation, specialised COVID-19 telehealth and alternative isolation accommodation are among the operational elements ...
Susie Houghton of Auckland has been appointed as a new District Court Judge, to serve on the Family Court, Attorney-General David Parker said today. Judge Houghton has acted as a lawyer for child for more than 20 years. She has acted on matters relating to the Hague Convention, an international ...
The Government has today confirmed $2.5 million to fund a replace and upgrade a stopbank to protect the Waipawa Drinking Water Treatment Plant. “As a result of Cyclone Gabrielle, the original stopbank protecting the Waipawa Drinking Water Treatment Plant was destroyed. The plant was operational within 6 weeks of the ...
Another $2.1 million to boost capacity to deal with waste left in Cyclone Gabrielle’s wake. Funds for Hastings District Council, Phoenix Contracting and Hog Fuel NZ to increase local waste-processing infrastructure. The Government is beefing up Hawke’s Bay’s Cyclone Gabrielle clean-up capacity with more support dealing with the massive amount ...
The future of Supercars events in New Zealand has been secured with new Government support. The Government is getting engines started through the Major Events Fund, a special fund to support high profile events in New Zealand that provide long-term economic, social and cultural benefits. “The Repco Supercars Championship is ...
The economy has turned a corner with confirmation today New Zealand never was in recession and stronger than expected growth in the June quarter, Finance Minister Grant Robertson said. “The New Zealand economy is doing better than expected,” Grant Robertson said. “It’s continuing to grow, with the latest figures showing ...
The Government has accepted the Environment Court’s recommendation to give special legal protection to New Zealand’s largest freshwater springs, Te Waikoropupū Springs (also known as Pupū Springs), Environment Minister David Parker announced today. “Te Waikoropupū Springs, near Takaka in Golden Bay, have the second clearest water in New Zealand after ...
Temporary package of funding for accommodation and essential living support for victims of migrant exploitation Exploited migrant workers able to apply for a further Migrant Exploitation Protection Visa (MEPV), giving people more time to find a job Free job search assistance to get people back into work Use of 90-day ...
An export boost is supporting New Zealand’s economy to grow, adding to signs that the economy has turned a corner and is on a stronger footing as we rebuild from Cyclone Gabrielle and lock in the benefits of multiple new trade deals, Finance Minister Grant Robertson says. “The economy is ...
The Government has approved $15 million to raise about 200 homes at risk of future flooding. More than half of this is expected to be spent in the Tairāwhiti settlement of Te Karaka, lifting about 100 homes there. “Te Karaka was badly hit during Cyclone Gabrielle when the Waipāoa River ...
The Government is helping businesses recover from Cyclone Gabrielle and attract more people back into their regions. “Cyclone Gabrielle has caused considerable damage across North Island regions with impacts continuing to be felt by businesses and communities,” Economic Development Minister Barbara Edmonds said. “Building on our earlier business support, this ...
Defence Minister Andrew Little has turned the first sod to start construction of a new Maintenance Support Facility (MSF) at Burnham Military Camp today. “This new state-of-art facility replaces Second World War-era buildings and will enable our Defence Force to better maintain and repair equipment,” Andrew Little said. “This Government ...
Foreign Minister Nanaia Mahuta will represent New Zealand at the 78th Session of the United Nations General Assembly (UNGA) in New York this week, before visiting Washington DC for further Pacific focussed meetings. Nanaia Mahuta will be in New York from Wednesday 20 September, and will participate in UNGA leaders ...
Around 1,700 Te Whatu Ora employed midwives and maternity care assistants will soon vote on a proposed pay equity settlement agreed by Te Whatu Ora, the Midwifery Employee Representation and Advisory Service (MERAS) and New Zealand Nurses Association (NZNO), Minister of Health Dr Ayesha Verrall announced today. “Addressing historical pay ...
Aotearoa New Zealand will provide humanitarian support to those affected by last week’s earthquake in Morocco, Foreign Minister Nanaia Mahuta announced today. “We are making a contribution of $1 million to the International Federation of Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies (IFRC) to help meet humanitarian needs,” Nanaia Mahuta said. ...
The Government is investing over $22 million across 18 projects to improve the resilience of roads in the West Coast that have been affected by recent extreme weather, Prime Minister Chris Hipkins confirmed today. A dedicated Transport Resilience Fund has been established for early preventative works to protect the state ...
The Government has today confirmed a $2 million grant towards the regeneration of Greymouth’s CBD with construction of a new two-level commercial and public facility. “It will include a visitor facility centred around a new library. Additionally, it will include retail outlets on the ground floor, and both outdoor and ...
Foreign Minister Nanaia Mahuta will attend the Pacific Islands Forum (PIF) Foreign Ministers’ Meeting, in Suva, Fiji alongside New Zealand’s regional counterparts. “Aotearoa New Zealand is deeply committed to working with our pacific whanau to strengthen our cooperation, and share ways to combat the challenges facing the Blue Pacific Continent,” ...
Economy to grow 2.6 percent on average over forecast period Treasury not forecasting a recession Inflation to return to the 1-3 percent target band next year Wages set to grow 4.8 percent a year over forecast period Unemployment to peak below the long-term average Fiscal Rules met - Net debt ...
Prime Minister Chris Hipkins and Minister of Health Dr Ayesha Verrall proudly opened the Canterbury Cancer Centre in Christchurch today. The new facility is the first of its kind and was built with $6.5 million of funding from the Government’s Infrastructure Reference Group scheme for shovel-ready projects allocated in 2020. ...
$12 million to improve the resilience of roads in the Nelson, Marlborough and Tasman regions Hope Bypass earmarked in draft Government Policy Statement on land transport $127 million invested in the top of the south’s roads since flooding in 2021 and 2022 The Government is investing over $12 million to ...
Ko tēnei te wiki e whakanui ana i tō tātou reo rangatira. Ko te wā tuku reo Māori, e whakanuia tahitia ai te reo ahakoa kei hea ake tēnā me tēnā o tātou, ka tū ā te Rātū te 14 o Mahuru, ā te 12 o ngā hāora i te ahiahi. ...
The 70-year-old Wildlife Act will be replaced with modern, fit-for-purpose legislation to better protect native species and improve biodiversity, Minister of Conservation Willow-Jean Prime has announced. “New species legislation is urgently needed to address New Zealand’s biodiversity crisis,” Willow-Jean Prime said. “More than 4,000 of our native species are currently ...
Central and Local Government are today announcing a range of new measures to tackle low-level crime and anti-social behaviour in the Auckland CBD to complement Police scaling up their presence in the area. “Police have an important role to play in preventing and responding to crime, but there is more ...
The Government has confirmed $73.7 million over the next four years and a further $40.5m in outyears to continue to transform the disability support system, Minister for Disability Issues Priyanca Radhakrishnan has announced. “The Enabling Good Lives (EGL) approach is a framework which guides positive change for disabled people, ...
Standard and Poor’s is the latest independent credit rating agency to endorse the Government’s economic management in the face of a deteriorating global economy. S&P affirmed New Zealand’s long term local currency rating at AAA and foreign currency rating at AA+ with a stable outlook. It follows Fitch affirming New ...
Christchurch barrister Kelvin Reid has been appointed as a Judge of the Environment Court and the District Court, Attorney-General David Parker announced today. Mr Reid has extensive experience in Resource Management Act issues, including water quality throughout the South Island. He was appointed to the Technical Advisory Group advising the ...
New Zealand is on track to have greener steel as soon as 2026 with New Zealand Steel’s electric arc furnace project reaching a major milestone today. The Government announced a conditional partnership with New Zealand Steel in May to deliver the country’s largest emissions reduction project to date. Half of ...
Pokia ana te tihi Taiarahia e Hine-Pūkohu-rangi Hotu kau ana te manawa! Horahia ana te whārua o Ruātoki e te kapua pouri Tikaro rawahia ko te whatumanawa! Rere whakamuri kau ana te awa o Hinemataroa Ki te kawe i te rongo ki te mātāpuna i nga pōngaihu Maungapōhatu, tuohu ...
Police Minister Ginny Andersen has today congratulated Police in their efforts to crack down on gangs, after laying 50,000 charges against gang members and their associates through the hugely successful Operation Cobalt. As at 31 August, Police have: Laid 50,396 criminal charges against gang members and their associates Issued 64,524 ...
The Government has confirmed details of the tax changes to the bright-line test for cyclone-damaged properties, with the release of the required legislative amendments. Revenue Minister Barbara Edmonds has released a Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) to be considered by the Finance and Expenditure Committee in the next Parliament, as it ...
Minister for Trade and Export Growth Damien O’Connor has welcomed the CPTPP Panel’s ruling in favour of New Zealand in our dispute against Canada, a significant win for our primary sector exporters. The Panel found that Canada’s dairy quota administration is inconsistent with its obligations under the Comprehensive and Progressive ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Jeffrey McNeill, Senior Lecturer in Resource & Environmental Planning, Massey University RMA – three letters that have struck fear into a generation of farmers, developers, politicians and anyone building a house. Or so legend would have it. Whatever its original goal of ...
Christopher Luxon has told reporters on the campaign trail in Matamata that he could manage a multi-party coalition with both Act and New Zealand First, if needed. In a social media video this morning, Luxon finally revealed that he was open to working with Winston Peters if the votes fell ...
This matter begins with the Pike River investigation being inadequate, inexplicably lengthy, and after millions of dollars, the evidence that should have been placed before the public still has not been. We have always believed that Pike River is ...
Hundreds of thousands of New Zealanders engage with the tertiary education sector each year. Here’s everything you need to know about funding, governance, student allowances, fees and research in two minutes. See more from our policy in two minutes series here.More than 300,000 New Zealanders are enrolled in programmes ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra The employment white paper, released on Monday, has outlined multiple measures the Albanese government will implement to assist the about three million people who want jobs or more hours of work. They include making ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra The employment white paper, released on Monday, has outlined multiple measures the Albanese government will implement to assist the about three million people who want jobs or more hours of work. They include making ...
The biggest and most expensive diamond ring to be auctioned in New Zealand went under the hammer in Auckland on Sunday. In the name of luxury, Gabi Lardies went and tried it on.The bubbles are on ice, the scented candles are lit and I am quite explicit about not ...
Greenpeace Aotearoa says the Labour Party’s Climate Manifesto, launched today, reads like a shopping list of condiments that has missed off the main meal: action on New Zealand’s biggest climate polluter, intensive dairy. "There are many ...
Responding to the release of Labour’s Climate Manifesto, Taxpayers’ Union Deputy Campaigns Manager, Connor Molloy, said: "Yet again, we are seeing a swathe of policies that fail to recognise the genius and effectiveness of our existing Emissions ...
At his press conference to launch Labour’s climate manifesto in New Plymouth today, Chris Hipkins was quick to offer his thoughts on Christopher Luxon finally admitting National would work with New Zealand First to form the next government if it needed to. “I want to for once in my life ...
Chris Hipkins has released Labour’s “climate manifesto”, which brings together a range of existing policies plus adds a handful of new ones. These include a plan for a “minister for just transitions” to oversee New Zealand’s transition to a low-emissions economy, and to a plan to invest an additional $300 ...
What are you going to be watching this week? We round up everything coming to streaming services this week, including Netflix, Amazon Prime, Disney+, Apple TV+, ThreeNow, Neon and TVNZ+.The biggies Neighbours: The Return (on Prime Video from September 25) Neighbours is back, baby. The long-running Australian soap that ended ...
Christopher Luxon has given the voters what they wanted – transparency on who National will work with. But, in doing so, some of his supporters worry he may have given New Zealand First a boost.Comment: National Party supporters at a meet and greet in Matamata with Christopher Luxon were ...
25 September 2023 FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Te Whatu Ora must stand by employees’ rights to freedom of thought and speech The Free Speech Union insists that Te Whatu Ora stand by their employees’ rights of freedom of thought and speech ...
The 2023 general election campaign must be the most hollow in living memory. There really isn’t much that is positive or attractive about the electoral options on offer. This is an election without inspiration. There is a definite gloominess among the public right now — with a perception that not ...
More severe weather and floods in regions demand voters’ attention. Floods in Queenstown and Southland, wildfires in South Canterbury, and further risk of flood in Gisborne, are a warning that the biggest issue in this election has to be climate ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Adrian Beaumont, Election Analyst (Psephologist) at The Conversation; and Honorary Associate, School of Mathematics and Statistics, The University of Melbourne A national Newspoll, conducted September 18–22 from a sample of 1,239, gave Labor a 54–46 lead, a one-point gain for Labor since ...
Winston Peters has repeated his claim that Bill English said he was about to be rolled as National leader during negotiations after the 2017 election. According to the New Zealand First leader, English said during post-election negotiations that he was about to lose his position as leader of National. It’s ...
We’ve been waiting weeks months for a captain’s call from Christopher Luxon on whether or not he’d work with Winston Peters – and that finally came today. As I detailed this morning, Luxon, in a video shared to social media, finally admitted he would work with Peters if necessary after ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Evangeline Mantzioris, Program Director of Nutrition and Food Sciences, Accredited Practising Dietitian, University of South Australia Fish oil, which contains omega-3 fatty acids, is promoted for a number of health benefits – from boosting our heart health, protecting our brain from dementia, ...
The 11th-hour decision to rule in Winston Peters if necessary leaves the National leader looking slow and expedient. When Chris Hipkins declared last week that National’s polling was beyond its peak, it seemed born more of hope than data. It is hard to avoid concluding, however, that Christopher Luxon has ...
A 17-year-old shares their reality living with the ‘doubting disease’. A version of this essay was first published on Emily Writes’ Substack. Every day I return to my house, gently closing the door behind me. Each time I unpack my bag, wash my lunch box and water bottle, place my ...
An ambitious initiative in Sāmoan early childhood centres is improving the health and wellbeing of children, families and teachers across Auckland – with aspirations to extend nationwide.The Seugagogo Aoga Amata Pre-School had humble beginnings. Situated close to the town centre of Auckland’s Ōtāhuhu and founded as a playgroup ...
Welcome to The Spinoff’s election live updates for Monday, September 25. I’m Stewart Sowman-Lund: on deck today from the mighty Manawatū. Get in touch with me on [email protected]Find out more about the political parties at Policy.nz The agenda Christopher Luxon has confirmed he would work with Winston ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Paul Formosa, Professor and Head of the Department of Philosophy, and Co-Director of the Macquire University Ethics & Agency Research Centre, Macquarie University Australians will soon be asked to vote on whether we should “alter the Constitution to recognise the First Peoples ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Jared Mondschein, Director of Research, US Studies Centre, University of Sydney The US Congress has had no shortage of viral moments in recent months. Senator Dianne Feinstein seemingly became confused over how to vote. Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell experienced two extended ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Paul Ginns, Associate Professor in Educational Psychology, University of Sydney Oleksandr P/Pexels Around Australia, Year 12 students are heading into the final stretch of study before exams start in early term 4. This is typically seen as a very intense ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Olympia Nelson, PhD Candidate in Modern Greek & Byzantine Studies specialising in Byzantine art and literature, University of Sydney Mary of Egypt, The Pantanassa Monastery, Mystras, Peloponnese, Greece Olympia Nelson, CC BY-ND Mary of Egypt, a fourth-century saint with a large ...
A beloved community group is shifting transport habits in this Manukau suburb.As I biked down Coronation Road in Māngere, a driver beeped and yelled, “Get off the road and onto the footpath!” When I didn’t get out of their way, they yelled again, telling me it was for my ...
Newshub’s next poll will be revealed at 6pm tonight, teased by political editor Jenna Lynch as one that shows the face of the election is “changing in more ways than one”. Is that a reference to New Zealand First, especially given National’s decision to commit to working with them (if ...
Andrea Vance has been on a tear of late, publishing a series of fired up columns about the dire state of political discourse as we head towards the election. This week’s Sunday Star-Times column (paywalled) is on the “stonking great elephant in the room” that none of the party leaders want to ...
The finance chiefs’ Q&A debate was some of the most compelling TV of the election season so far, writes Catherine McGregor in this excerpt from The Bulletin, The Spinoff’s morning news round-up. To receive The Bulletin in full each weekday, sign up here. Tempers flare in the TVNZ studios Grant ...
“ACT and National are on the same page about a future coalition Government, with both parties working together in a strong coalition to overcome the significant challenges New Zealand faces,” says ACT Leader David Seymour. “Christopher Luxon confirmed ...
Pike River family members Anna Osborne and Sonya Rockhouse have called on political leaders to agree to introduce a corporate manslaughter law following charges for Whakaari deaths being dropped. Anna Osborne, who lost her husband Milton in the Pike ...
“We need to get the politics and bureaucracy out of New Zealand’s education system, bring high standards for attendance and learning in, and treat the profession with respect. While Labour is responsible for lowering the bar and leaving kids even ...
After months of speculation and countless questions from journalists, Christopher Luxon has confirmed he would work with Winston Peters – if required to. In a video posted to social media, Luxon made it clear that his preference was for “strong and stable” two-party coalition between National and Act. “I believe ...
“Think before you speak” urges Ethnic and Faith Leaders to election candidates. The national network of ethnic and faith leaders of the Chinese, Indian, Sikh, Muslim, Jewish and African communities has urged civility and respect by politicians during ...
National and Labour are both promising to front up with their full fiscal plans this week, their rhetoric over the economy growing increasingly feisty. ...
National and Labour are both promising to front up with their full fiscal plans this week, their rhetoric over the economy growing increasingly feisty. ...
New Zealand has a massive deficit in state housing, but is that all National’s fault? Max Rashbrooke runs the numbers. It has become a truth universally acknowledged, at least on the left, that the last time National was in power, its only interest in state houses lay in selling them ...
Chlöe Swarbrick’s victory was one of the biggest surprises of the 2020 election, but in the past three years she’s made the seat her own. Can the high-profile Green hold on to Auckland Central, or will it flip to a National or Labour newbie?Read the other battleground electorate profiles ...
The risk of protesters and unwanted guests has spoiled the election campaign. Over back-to-back days in Auckland with the two Chrises, political editor Jo Moir observed increased security and vetting, and safe party-faithful crowds.Analysis: At Auckland’s Viaduct on Friday afternoon Luxon bounced from one restaurant to another chatting with ...
Tiny home living is cheap, good for the environment and encourages a simpler life. Getting there, however, can be a bureaucratic horror show and involve a huge financial leap of faith. You've probably seen the videos where you're walked through a picture-perfect tiny home on an idyllic section. The incredibly ...
Missing out on the Commonwealth Games gave Tiana Metuarau the fire to work even harder for her Silver Ferns dream. She's back from an abrupt World Cup call-up and ready to keep growing. Tiana Metuarau lay shaking uncontrollably in her Cape Town bed, unsure what was happening to her. She'd ...
First edition masterpieces are up for grabs this week at an antiquarian book auction Three extremely rare first edition Jane Austen novels will be auctioned on Wednesday, with the top bid estimated at around $80,000. Jane Austen – one of the greats, so great that she is hardly ...
Loading...(function(i,s,o,g,r,a,m){var ql=document.querySelectorAll('A[quiz],DIV[quiz],A[data-quiz],DIV[data-quiz]'); if(ql){if(ql.length){for(var k=0;k<ql.length;k++){ql[k].id='quiz-embed-'+k;ql[k].href="javascript:var i=document.getElementById('quiz-embed-"+k+"');try{qz.startQuiz(i)}catch(e){i.start=1;i.style.cursor='wait';i.style.opacity='0.5'};void(0);"}}};i['QP']=r;i[r]=i[r]||function(){(i[r].q=i[r].q||[]).push(arguments)},i[r].l=1*new Date();a=s.createElement(o),m=s.getElementsByTagName(o)[0];a.async=1;a.src=g;m.parentNode.insertBefore(a,m)})(window,document,'script','https://take.quiz-maker.com/3012/CDN/quiz-embed-v1.js','qp'); Got a good quiz question?Send Newsroom your questions. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra The government will commit $41 million for technical and further education and “higher apprenticeships” when it releases its white paper on employment on Monday. Of this, $31 million will be for new TAFE “centres ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra The government will commit $41 million for technical and further education and “higher apprenticeships” when it releases its white paper on employment on Monday. Of this, $31 million will be for new TAFE “centres ...
SPECIAL REPORT:By Yamin Kogoya Prominent West Papuan independence activist Victor Yeimo was yesterday released from prison in Jayapura, Indonesia’s occupied capital of West Papua, sparking a massive celebration among thousands of Papuans. His release has ignited a spirit of unity among Papuans in their fight against what they refer ...
COMMENTARY:By John Mitchell in Suva On Thursday, the whole world celebrated the International Day of Peace. Although the UN day is not as famous as others, like World Press Freedom Day, International Women’s Day or World Teacher’s Day, it is important nevertheless. The UN General Assembly has set aside ...
Prime Minister Chris Hipkins’ admission that he agrees with National’s policies on speed limits, but claims he can’t to do anything about them, shows how ineffective the Labour Government is, National’s Transport spokesperson Simeon Brown says. ...
Halfway through the campaign period and with Labour still falling in the polls, Chris Hipkins has debuted a new and more aggressive approach at a rally in Wellington, Marc Daalder reportsAnalysis: In front of a crowd of around 80 supporters in a small room on Wellington's waterfront on Sunday, Chris ...
It was a far cry from the campaign rallies the Labour Party threw in Wellington at the last two elections, held in the St James Theatre and the Michael Fowler Centre, but Chris Hipkins nevertheless summoned an old-school energy at a central city conference room before 250 supporters this afternoon. ...
Speed limit reductions designed to make roads safer will be reversed under a National government, with state highways that had moved to 80km/h reverting to 100km/h and “many local roads” returning to 50km/h from 30km/h.“Under the guise of safety, Labour has let rip with its anti-car ideology,” said Christopher ...
Labour’s spending promises will see government debt skyrocket even further, with no funding set aside for $51 billion of policy commitments like Light Rail and Lake Onslow, National’s Finance spokesperson Nicola Willis says. “Labour’s economic ...
A National government will undo Labour’s blanket speed limit reductions, returning many state highways to 100 km/h from 80, and many local roads to 50 km/h from 30, while designing new highways for 110 km/h, National’s Transport spokesperson Simeon ...
Te Reo Putake yesterday in TS added a good big dose of spice to the “Internal Debate” that is consuming the Labour Party members and supporters.
The very long string of comments focused on TRP’s adamant assertion that there will be a “UNANIMOUS VOTE OF CONFIDENCE IN SHEARER IN CAUCUS” next month.
TRP strongly predicated this assertion on a few points.
The core one was that Labour will definitely win under Shearer and that all the Cunliffe faction are sucking-up in the hope of ministerial positions.
Friends, the relatively small recent movements in the polls show otherwise. We are no better off than when we lost in 2008. We would be better off if Phil had stayed. IMO. This is despite Key &co continually shooting themselves in both feet. The repeated trumpeting that there is a significant poll rise is just hype. Deluding ourselves will achieve nothing.
http://www.colmarbrunton.co.nz/images/ONE_News_Colmar_Brunton_Poll_report_24-28_Nov_2012.pdf. http://www.roymorgan.com/news/polls/2012/4847/
TPR’s next messaging is that “It’s policy that makes good government, not a slick leader.”
While a less than capable and polished Leader would be a secondary issue if there was a front bench free to communicate new policy, that is just not the case at present. Since 2008 we have tried to make new policies the plank for the leader to gain popularity. We are using policy only to underpin a less-than-slick leadership strategy for over five years. And putting policy in that diminished role has failed.
TRP then repeats the mantra that the 2014 election in in the bag, that it is Labour’s to loose. “And unless Shearer does something spectacularly stupid, he will be the next PM”.
Sleep-walking to victory. It is our turn to govern. The Nats will loose, we do not need to win! Don’t rock the boat boy and girls, we can sail into the Treasury benches if we paddle very quietly!
TRP then says that because he, TRP, cannot see any evidence of anyone throwing their hat is the ring then it is not happening. This stance suggests to me that TRP is a very well connected insider, possibly on the NZ Council or a similar lofty position.
The members do not come into TRP’s Wellington centred reckoning. However, they are telling their MPs the same thing they have been saying for the past eight months: the current leadership approach has not won the imagination of the membership, of the 800,000 that did not vote nor of the voting public. The membership is saying there must be a change.
We need a very wide change at the top, not merely the overdue retirement of King, Goff and Mallard to which TRP alludes. That change has to be in ATTITUDE towards reform as well as in personnel. The current attitude is damaging the party.
The serious concerns of the membership about the wider leadership’s approach to policy and to winning in 2014 drove the divisions at the Conference. The Conference was only the start of the reform process, not the end. The membership wants those reforms to be advanced, not snuffed. The membership see a robust leadership debate road-show as a critical part of this reform movement.
Khandalla Viper – I totally agree with your analysis. And especially about the oft-repeated mantra ” the 2014 election in in the bag, that it is Labour’s to lose”.
That is just what WILL happen if Labour does not change – both attitude, and the people at the top – Labour will lose yet again. And both our country and our people will suffer.
Come election year, the msm will turn against Shearer, Shon Key will “charm” the electorate again (and the electorate will fall for it !), the 800,000-odd who didn’t vote in 2011 won’t vote in 2014 and there might even be a larger number of non-voters, and the belief that National voters will somehow go to Labour because they don’t like Nat policies is misguided at best. National voters like being in power – and they never vote for Labour ! So they head for the polling booths en masse, and Labour voters stay at home. Its happened before, and it will happen again – if Labour does not change now.
“the 800,000-odd who didn’t vote in 2011 won’t vote in 2014”
That no party has stepped up to the plate to capture this vote bemuses me.
A huge opportunity wasted. If Craig can get the loony religious right to turn out, why not a party from the left aimed squarely at those disenfranchised from the system.
I had a plan, sent it to the Greens, twice, but heard nothing from them, though of course, I’m still willing to chat to Mr Servian in Hamilton West. 😉
And from the remainder who do vote, Labour could get 34%-35%, in an optimistic scenario. Certainly enough to hammer together a one term coalition of sorts, probably requiring NZ First. But climbing over 40%, to a result similar to what Labour achieved in both 2002 and 2005 is not a possibility that I have heard anyone even contemplating. Regardless of how many beers they have had.
As others have noted, this is a historical juncture for Labour.
Glad to see you back in formation, CV.
I’d be honoured to have you as my wingman any day Pete.
And you too, Richard Down South 😀
Great to see you back CV,
Now I can finally go back to my own name. Have a strong and battle ready New Year!
+ 1 Jenny
And + 1 Khandallaviper.
As a complete aside does anyone know where Charles Chauvel’s loyalties lie in regard to leadership?
From a comment to me on the Standard made by ‘i forget’ Chauvel ‘was’ in the Cunliffe camp but has not been demoted,
He performs well in the house and has the type of presence,(future leadership material), when on His feet speaking that has National Ministers cowering,
My view is that it isn’t important which particular faction the individual MP’s side with, more importantly is the willingness of the individual MP’s to vote to ‘trigger’ the party wide leadership February,
Should that occur, and i have my doubts, then whoever wins such a vote should be said to be the party’s choice and have the full backing of the party and it’s MP’s…
Cheers Bad12. That is interesting to note.
Hear what you’re saying regarding the relative lack of importance of the individual MPs’ factional loyalty. I agree.
The reason I’m interested is that I’m in the Ohariu electorate and have played with the idea of lending volunteer support in the next campaign. For that to happen David Shearer would need to be gone and CC would have to be one of the ones to see him off with a cheery wave.
I’m not a Labour party member and have almost completely lost faith in the party, while being increasingly Green and Mana. However, these are desparate times and you have to be practical so IF there were changes to the leadership and some solid and radical policy was announced I’d stand by them, as a voter and a practical supporter. It’s still a long and dreary wait till 2014 and much can change in that time so at this point I’m not holding my breath.
To my undying shame as a Party Member i trudged the miles stuffing letterboxes to aid the election of the Lange/Douglas fiasco,
There are still what seems a majority in the Labour Caucus who when the subject is broached nod sagely and intone with the utmost wisdom that what was inflicted upon the working class of New Zealand at the time ”had to happen”,
I stuck with Labour right up to the point where the Clark Government denied beneficiary dependent families the same tax credits as were given to the upper middle class,
I am now a Green Party Member and while my intentions this far out from 2014 are to vote Green i may be swayed by how close Mana can come to unseating Flavell, the Parliament could use the voice of Annette Sykes,
Should Sykes unseat Flavell the % of party votes should rise for Mana and if there was a chance of Mana gaining a third MP from the party vote they may well get mine,
Hope Metiria doesn’t read this or i am in trouble LOLZ, the above would of course depend upon the Green vote leading up to the 2014 election not only holding up but rising to at least bring one more Green MP into the house…
I must have missed the “cowering” part when I watch Parliament. Chauval is often set up for a laugh.
Have you never watched the likes of Housing Minister Heatley when under fire in the house,
He definitely cowers and looks to all extents and purposes like a small rodent looking for a hole in the floor to nip into…
yes but that is not down to the actions of chauvel..heatley was born cowering..
..and as a person who has done commentaries on questiontime for some years..
..like the rest of the front bench..chauvel has not particularly impressed..
..(the best performer in labour is cunnliffe..hands down..he makes national ministers nervous..and nails them with cold/hard intellect/logic..)
..there is of course humour to be had from watching genter from the greens vs brownlee..
..it is a mouse vs. elephant kinda conflict..
..and i noted in an end of year summary that the mouse seems able to make the elephant bellow in distress on cue/at will..
..and as others have said more eloquently..this is a crossroads for labour..
..and yes..i also fear the party leadership is just planning on that sleepwalk to victory..
..which if successful..but without the needed policy u-turns on fighting poverty etc..
..they will be worse than useless..
..and like a previous commenter i have gone from a life-long labour voter..to green..to mana..
..and that because harawira seems to be the only one advocating concrete-policy to end poverty etc..
..why is labour scared of coming up with strong policies..and arguing them now..?
..i agree..that in tweedle-dee/tweedledum decades/govts like we have recently had/endured..that policy had to be kept hidden until just before the election..(‘cos tweedle could nick from tweedle..)
..but i really don’t think national are going to steal a brace of policies aimed at ending poverty..eh..?
..so i think that historical reality/way of doing things can be safely put to one side..eh..?
..and really..for a toxic govt such as this one – doing all they are doing that so many hate..(83% opposed to asset-sales…)..
..for labour to be smug/complacent/positively spinning the fact they are stuck down where they are in the polls..
..is self-delusion of a grand nature..
phillip ure..
I see nothing in those opinion polls but embarrassment for the Labour party. There’s spin, and there’s damn spin.
Regardless of being an mmp nation, low thirties, after four years of dodgy government shit, isn’t a positive endorsement of anything.
Someone in caucus must have been taking notes watching Bill English run the local economy – Do nothing and hope it picks up when other countries start spending up large again. Labour’s only chance is to forget the ‘credible alternative’ tag and make the agenda their own. Will they? If they past four years are anything to go by (save for three weeks of Goff flying solo in the election campaign) Will they f*ck.
In my brutally honest opinion, Labour’s a goner. It’s not the only party on the left, and again in my opinion, certainly not the best party on the left by a long way.
Shearer won’t be challenged, by anyone, and he’ll go on to mumble and fluster his way through every tv/house appearance all the way to 2014.
The leader is not more important than the party some will say, and they’re completely wrong. It does and will transfer into lost votes. I won’t vote for DS GR TM or any of the fuck nuggets pulling strings behind the scene, so that’s one.
That’s 2
I think TRP is right that no one will challenge in February, and that Shearer will lead Labour into the next election. The Labour caucus have shown such a remarkable lack of brains and guts that any other outcome is highly unlikely.
Labour will lose in 2014 and National will be a three term Government. Shearer will do okay in the polls up until the election campaign starts – steady or even moderately increasing from present position. The Shearerites will crow and say they were right and everyone else was wrong.
When the public get a look at Shearer during the debates they will baulk at the prospect of electing a PM who can’t string a sentence together and run back to John Key and National in fright. They will be pissed off at Labour for putting up an unelectable leader right when they wanted to get rid of National.
Best we start planning for 2017.
TRP is right Blue. There will be no challenge in February. I said so on yesterday’s O.M. He is also technically right that it isn’t so much a challenge as a ‘motion of confidence in the current leader.’ Shearer will get it, and it will be unanimous.
I think it’s a bit unfair to charge the Labour caucus with a lack of brains and guts. Setting aside the duped ABC Club acolytes, it’s not a lack of guts etc. It’s politics and commonsense. There was a coup alright… against Cunliffe. With the help of the MSM the coup organisers won. If Cunliffe and his supporters were to retaliate now they would be cutting their own throats.
I don’t agree that it’s all over for Cunliffe. He’s a relatively young man. He can afford to wait another few years – 5 years if necessary.
Anne you may well be right about this, supposing that nothing arises in the meantime to change the political landscape. However, the questions that have arisen in the past year or so will not, as Robert Winter puts it, “be patronised away.” http://robertwinter.blogspot.co.nz/2013/01/labour-in-new-year.html
I have come to suspect that Shearer’s elevation, the handing out of rank with limited authority to various MPs, and the ABC concept itself are the result of deal-making of the “no Brash no cash” kind. To me, the speed with which the caucus raced to head Cunliffe off at the pass had all the hallmarks of a panicked group protecting a done deal. Furthermore, the defence that “Labour must appeal to the middle class” handily reduces the concept of middle class to those who think their interests coincide with corporate interests. No one seems willing to acknowledge that many of the angry commentators on the Standard, etc, are in fact middle class.
If the Shearer clique continue to protect him from the party’s judgement, then his legitimacy as a leader remains compromised. The deal or deals that got him there (supposing I am right) seem make opposing demands on him to those of the membership, who for the most part want a centre left Labour Party. They will not be appeased by ambiguity and empty flattery. So, OK, Shearer might survive a motion of confidence, but that does not mean that his problems are over.
Well said Olwyn.
It’s true. My hypothesis does rely on nothing arising in the meantime….
In the meantime, how Shearer rises to the reshuffle challenge will, in my view, give us some of the answers we are seeking in terms of his leadership and how genuine is his desire to reunite the caucus and a large section of the membership. He can only do it if he:
1) re-instates Cunliffe to the front bench with his previous portfolios.
2) promotes talent such as those shown by Charles Chauval, Sue Moroney (and others) who were effectively demoted 12 months ago because they supported David Cunliffe.
That is the absolute minimum in my book.
I wholeheartedly agree Anne, with the added caveat that these people are not just promoted, but given real authority over their areas of expertise, and not just empty rank with strings attached.
+1.
No more gagging and silly games like the one played on Cunliffe late last year. I refer to his… arriving at the meeting of the West Auckland Licensing Trust (I think it’s called that) to find David Parker had been sent in his place. Someone can correct me if I’m wrong, but I saw it as an attempt by the ABC gang to further humiliate Cunliffe.
I suspect there are more malicious tricks that have not been made public – attempts to provoke him into lashing out a la Carter, so they can get rid of him once and for all. Which is why I think that deal-making must lie behind it – either that or the ABC group have a genuine crank among their number. I mean, Cunliffe is very much liked in his electorate, and is surely not that hard to get on with!
I mean, Cunliffe is very much liked in his electorate, and is surely not that hard to get on with!
Not according to the almost uniformly hostile coverage of him in the media. I keep hearing and reading that Cunliffe is “not liked” by his colleagues. I’ve never heard or seen any “journalist” ever provide an example of what Cunliffe has done to incur this alleged opprobrium, however.
I mean, Cunliffe is very much liked in his electorate, and is surely not that hard to get on with!
He is indeed, and not only in his electorate. He is highly regarded by a lot of people. And there-in I suspect lies much of the problem. Some of his caucus colleagues are jealous. Put it to them, and they would laugh out loud and exclaim… what a lot of nonsense. But imho, that is the core of the problem. It has been amply demonstrated that jealousy can cause some people to lose their marbles…
Oh and btw… we know there was deal making 12 months ago at the time of the contest. That’s why Parker pulled out of the race. He was promised the shadow Finance portfolio if he did so. What’s the bet he has also been promised the role of Finance Minister when they become the government. I don’t doubt his credentials for the job, but underhand deals and being a part of attempts to smear and discredit a perceived rival should not be prerequisites for premium ministerial positions.
I am a member of David Cunliffe’s LEC.
David is adored by his LEC. Over the past 11 years I have watched him build it into a large, ethnically diversified, well-managed team.
If Cunliffe switches parties, I predict the entire LEC will switch with him. If he drops out of politics, I predict his LEC will virtually disappear.
If that happens, New Lynn will go National. New Lynn is NOT a safe Labour seat. We work damn hard to get the numbers for David. Compare the significantly higher vote tallies for David than for the Labour party vote.
If there is no open leadership contest in February, I will join the Greens but return to help Cunliffe’s electorate campaign in 2014.
He is far and away the most intelligent and creative MP in NZ today.
The only way his opponents have been able to counter him is with character assassination. That should tell you a lot about him and them.
Tall Poppy Syndrome.
Tall poppy syndrome (TPS) is a pejorative term primarily used in the UK, Canada, New Zealand and other Anglosphere nations to describe a social phenomenon in which people of genuine merit are resented, attacked, cut down, or criticised because their talents or achievements elevate them above or distinguish them from their peers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tall_poppy_syndrome
Max. Respect to you and to your LEC. Salam alaykum السلام عليكم
Salam alaykum, to you to habibi.
And an apology from David Shearer to ALL voters for his bullshit way of treating Cunliffe and others, all on the back of a Gower story hunt. So when ever I see a Gower story on TV3 website I always ask how a Snot nosed schoolboy can get a job like that.
I found TRP’s comments pretty odd as well. There needs to be a real distinction between leadership and policy; one is not a substitute for the other. Leadership is what makes policy real, even in Opposition.
For me the current leadership did a great job with the housing speech, but that’s one hit on a year of nothing. And indeed since the conference in November, pretty much radio silence.
Just astonishing at the lack of activity around the asset sales petition last week – indeed an unconvincing performance by Chippie that really did not carry beyond one news day. Anyone else stepped into that space?
And of course the holiday season is fantastic downtime where everyone is reading and wants to engage about stuff other than work. So where were the think pieces from Spokespeople in the newspapers? At our place we had well placed sources doing stuff for our industry right the way through. Newspapers are begging for content at this time, as are TV.
I know what leadership would feel like – and right now it’s just a hollow space. Holidays are not an excuse. They are a time to attack. Where’s the attack? Does Shearer have a date for this next massive speech, or is he going to wait for Parliament to resume?
Shearer has squandered a ripe leadership moment. I want my leadership vote. Give me my vote.
Cheers, y’all.
Kman: The election is Labour/Greens to lose. National are tired, running out of ideas, energy and, importantly, support parties inside Parliament. ACT and the Maori Party look stuffed, Dunne may just hang on, but that won’t be enough to keep the Nats in power. Key’s only hope is Winston, which looks like less of an option these days.
Jenny Kirk: ‘Time for a change’ will be a factor, for sure. National will need to do better than they did at the last election to win because of the collapse of the MP and ACT. That improvement seems unlikely going into a third election.
The Al1en: There is already a party like that. It’s called Mana. Nice to hear you’re on good terms with Mark Servian. He’s a great guy … the Golden Gordon of kiwi politics.
Blue: thanks, you seem to get where I’m coming from, even if you are pessimistic about the election.
Coronial Typer: you sound like you need a holiday yourself. Like it or not, parliament is on a break, there won’t be much political news for a few weeks yet. Which is fine by me, because MP’s are workers too and earn their breaks. (yes, I know, I snorted myself writing that sentence, but honestly, MP is such a shitty, all consuming and public job, most MP’s piss off overseas where noone knows them to get a real break).
“There is already a party like that. It’s called Mana.”
Not really. That’s a big assumption that those 800,000 identify with Hone’s agenda, just because they’re, for whatever reason out of the loop.
I’m not personally convinced mana represents outside it’s core constituents, which is of course their right to do so. There’s certainly room for another left party. Certainly room for an extra 5% that doesn’t come with winston, and certainly a cup of tea for our side to negate the one in Epsom.
I bet a new left party would consistently outpoll act, the conservatives and dare I say mana.
“Nice to hear you’re on good terms with Mark Servian. He’s a great guy”
I wouldn’t know. The point was I didn’t get a reply, much to my bemusement.
“the Golden Gordon of kiwi politics.”
No idea what that means, I’ll have to google, but I’m sure there’s plenty Golden Gordens.
You may have to expand, or not.
Golden Gordon was a legendary footballer in the comedy series Ripping Yarns. Specifically an episode about the hopeless Barnstoneworth United. Since the series came out, BUFC’s have popped up all around the world, including in Hamilton’s sunday league. It was my privilege to make up the numbers in that team a decade or two back, alongside the good Mr Servian.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9KXrRUZqtw
Makes a better reference than kitchen nightmare Gordon I though of.
He still didn’t answer my mail though, so room for improvement on the left wing. 😉
Why don’t you just go back to Shearer and co, and tell em we don’t believe you. So now you can get your well done pat on the head.
If Shearer is the leader at the next election (it may not be in November 2014) then Labour are gonners and the 800,000 non-voters will pale by comparison. Yesterday I looked at the Labour Party website for policy statements; couldn’t find one. Labour had the best policies at the last election but still lost; how is it going to be different next time? Labour need a strong, articulate, caring and capable leader with the best interests of the majority of NZer’s at heart….. David Shearer is not the one.
The caucus is a mess. All down to the ABCer’s. Don’t they care?
A couple of days ago I asked (if by some miracle) David Cunliffe was elected leader what would he do about the ABCer’s. I haven’t had an answer yet. Looks like the LEC’s have some urgent work to do.
No wonder John Key is laughing all over his face.
labour have to be very careful in releasing policy because a good right wing govt will steel those policies its better to be be vague until 6 months from the election the best thing the left can do is highlight govts failures and mistakes at this stage!
3 left wing policies that the National Party cannot steal
1) 50,000 social housing units built by a renewed Ministry of Public Works, provided on both long and short term leases at 25% of household income, or alternatively sold to those on lower incomes via 1% pa no deposit interest rate mortgages.
2) 10,000 new trade apprenticeships for youth unemployed…working on building the socialised housing above.
3) Rationalisation of the NZ banking sector ensuring KiwiBank plays a far bigger role, including holding tens of thousands of new social housing mortgages on behalf of the government.
I’ll guarantee you that National could not steal the above policies. HOWEVER if you release CENTRIST MIDDLE OF THE ROAD POLICIES then yes, National will steal them.
Of course, the other reason you might not want to release policy yet is if you don’t have any ready to go.
+1
Waiting to release policy worked so well last election.
my thought exactly.
time to dismount?
labour have to be very careful in releasing policy because a good right wing govt will steel those policies
And if they’re good policies, and Labour actually lets people know that they’re Labour policies, then Labour makes a huge song and dance every single time about it.
Here’s the key messages, thought up in about two minutes off the top of my head:
“We’re happy to see the National government taking up Labour policies.”
“Clearly this government has run out of ideas, but that’s okay, because this is a good Labour policy.”
“The Government has done the right thing by realising their policies haven’t helped New Zealand at all, and that Labour policies will get us out of the hole they’ve dug in the economy.”
“We’re happy we can help steer New Zealand in the right direction by providing good, productive, sensible policies which the Government wants to steal.”
Yep. it’s walk in the park stuff.
And that has worked really well for us eh?
Time to get serious; no more wishful thinking.
The thought of Shearer as PM is depressing to me. So far I’ve not seen anything about him that appeals: not his public performances, not his political positioning (or lack of any real commitment to truly left wing policies), not his personality – nada.
However, I’m really not certain who there is that would make a good LP caucus leader. Cunliffe certainly needs to be in the front-tow team, but he may or may not make a good leader.
In the face of this, the only way forward at this stage, is for me to put more effort in supporting the Greens/Mana, and in supporting whatever the NZLP members come up with. With more democratic tools, it’s only the membership that can shift the NZLP in a positive direction, IMO. And that also means focusing on promoting policies and directions that are soundly those of the left and wider labour movement.
Need to find new talent? Must be time to promote a few more people from being Labour staffers to being Labour MPs.
But surely Cunliffe is a BETTER option than Shearer. With Shearer there is no way Labour will win; our only chance, irrespective of policy, is with Cunliffe…. there is no other option that I can see.
Yes, I would prefer Cunliffe. Don’t know how he will go in leading caucus, and if he will be able to unite them, though. Shearer is a non-starter, IMO.
ABCer’s……. the OTHER elephant in the room!
Simple they fall into line or they are OUT! And they can take that nasty little red headed school boy with them.
OMG we’re all at it again. Now where did I put those darkened curtains…
Because this issue needs resolving….. the ABCer’s may think it has, but they clearly can’t see the elephant in the room.
KhandallaViper.
Just noting that TRP is very consistent; last year he said that as long as Labour’s polling stayed good, Shearer was “home and hosed” as Labour Leader and that we should all get used to it.
PM Shearer is a distinct possibility in 2014. For what it’s worth.
Cheers, CV. And welcome back, comrade.
😉
But Shearer’s possibility, on previous form, is reliant on a nat fall over and certainly not from what I’ve seen, the inclusive politics he spoke about in the race to succeed Goff.
A win by default is still a win, but not really what I want from a party chasing my vote, or the sort of ambitious, aspirational government I’m looking for in exchange for it.
Gut feeling about 2014, still very much key’s to lose.
Yep. It’s the classic “don’t rock the boat” sleepwalk to victory. Which I also abhor.
Currently, our entire country (world?) is sleepwalking off a resource depletion and climate change cliff. Hands-off market led neoliberal style bullshit got us here and is not going to cut it.
Jeeez bad day for mixed metaphors.
Metaphor cocktails for everyone, on the house. 🙂
It’s a weakness and along with abhor, something that should be resisted.
The people need a leader they can follow. It’s a dire prognosis all around if we don’t find one, nationally and abroad. cometh the time etc..
It’s not coming from NZP, so where? Is maybe the more urgent question needed to be addressed.
NZLP
some fruits of sharing
https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/426820_364157637016199_1266498282_n.jpg
Oh yes they have been consistent They have NOT polled above 33.5% since 2008. And this is good why?? SO Shearer may lead them to the next train wreck/election. As I said before it’s all about trust. And the only thing we can trust Shearer to do, is protect his pay packet!
Labour on 33.5% is a perfectly respectable polling number. For the first half of National’s first term honeymoon.
I know that CV But with all the screw ups the NACTS have had last year, anyone with half a brain would have made hay at their expense. But what did we hear from Shearer and co the deafening sound of Silence, as usual! And with all the screw ups then Labour should have been about 40+ not stagnant at 32.5.
The Nats are preparing to torpedo Shearer in four streams.
a)They will get tame journos to ask “off piste” questions to try to embarrass him.
b) Key will push for heaps of face to face opps to try to embarrass him.
c) The Nats have background and context to his “Kiwi of the Year” nomination.
d) The management style and tactics deployed in the UN job will be compared to the Labour job.
The Nats are determine not to give 2014 away without a fight and they will fight as dirty as it takes. They believe they can win because Winston’s price is known.
They vuew the current labour leadership as its Achilles heel.
Welcome back, o original and much revered VIPER.
Did Clare Curran apologise?
Have you served sufficient time in purgatory?
At your service, KV. Did I mention that it was the comment of yours saying that CC had me as her first target which made me realise that the temperature was climbing higher than I expected and that action was required? Thanks for that.
Curran apologise? **guffaw** That’ll be a democratic socialist day in caucus. Regardless, I don’t require any apology from her.
As for pugatory mate, I had a good stay, better than that I made good friends with a few leviathans while I was away 😈
Last week the Syrian Government announced it had captured the brother of assassinated Al Qaeda leader al Zawahiri (who if we have to believe the US has been killed several times over the last few years). No Western MSM wanted to run with it.
Mohamed al-Zawahiri was captured on what the rebels and the MSM are calling a humanitarian mission!
What gets me is that we have invaded Afghanistan on what we were told was to eliminate the worlds most dangerous terrorist organization. We invaded Iraq and killed a million people to catch these bastards and now the leader is doing humanitarian work?
This is how stupid they think we are!
That a good one, He who was captured is just as likely to be in the employ of either the UN or the US via the Saudi Government,
You have to get with the real picture, prior to September 11 Al Qaeda were US funded and armed assets during the Soviet/Afghan war,
Priorities tho have now changed, Syria being the new target of US sponsored destabilization calls for new strategies and assets of Arab extraction are of premium value in turning Syria into a failure of a State to match those of Afghanistan and Iraq,
Next stop for the road show of course is Iran, all that oil yummy…
Yep!
Bad12, from what I can make out the west is panicking. there are no real good options. the chances of Zawahiri being in the pay of the Sauds, let alone the west, are remote. He considers the sauds to be apostate.
The west at the moment is most concerned about assads weapons falling into the hands of the rebels, and who may get their hands on them after that. If the west sends in troops, that’s what they will doing, isolating and destroying as much of assad’s stockpile as they can.
the Russians are moving ships, and marines into the area, probably to be a counter force (ripwire) against escalation, and to protect a pocket for Allawites to flee to. Also, to cover the withdrawal of Russian ‘civilians’.
That’s highly amusing, i always enjoy someone who parrots the news gathered from the MSM as if it were the Gospel,
Lets see now,Zawahiri thinks the Saudi’s are apostate but happily worked alongside Bin Laden, whose family is Saud and part of the ruling class as well as personal friends of the Bush family,
Are you suggesting that the group Bin Laden lead while fighting the Russians in Afghanistan was not funded by US cash funneled from the US via various ‘foundations’ and think-tanks’,
Even more amusing, is the supposed fear of ‘weapons of mass destruction’, now where have we heard that little tale before,
What the US in particular is most concerned about at the moment is the destabilization of the Arab country’s with strong leadership who do not align themselves with the US,
The strategy is to smash these country’s back to the stone-age in terms of intercine tribal and religious sects battling for power, the US can then deal favorably in terms of arms and support with the faction that has control of the oil production,
Bin Laden and any group He headed are essentially mercenaries, they may hate the West and the ruling class of the various Arab potentates, but, are still guns for hire as are a large number of other Arab staffed groups currently aiding in the destruction of the State of Syria,
Feel free tho to allow the mainstream media to tell you what to think of the current situation as it is at the least amusing to examine your belief system which does not seem to have been altered by the events in either Iraq or Afghanistan…
Don’t forget the tens of billions in reconstruction contracts for western corporations coming in to rebuild infrastructure smashed by western laser guided bombs a la Libya. It’s a great deal: one $50K bomb can create $20M in reconstruction contracts. Excellent return on investment.
I’m glad you find it amusing, but it’s ironic that the amusement is based on so much ignorance.
Yes, Bin laden is (or rather was) a Saud. But his citizenship was revoked at around the time he declared jihad on the regime. This happened a long time ago. You can find his declaration of war on the Sauds in plenty of places.
If you read it, and only that, you’ll find it useful to understanding these guys. You’d be better to read “The Looming Tower” which is very thorough.
The main thing, I guess, is to understand what AQ, Islamic Jihad and related theorists mean by “the near enemy”, and “the far enemy”.
And it’s not accurate to claim that AQ was funded by the CIA. AQ was set up to act as an alternative for jihadis. Bin laden felt that western funding of jihad was counterproductive, that it would co-opt any jihad and prevent sharia being implemented. that’s why he set up “the base” and sought funding from wealthy salafists. When Iraq invaded Kuwait, he offered to use this ‘base’ of supporters and jihadis to wage jihad. The Saud regime turned him down.
none of this stuff is secret, or propaganda, it’s history.
I was going to leave this, but given your demands in another thread that people debate in a manner fitting for this site, or whatever horseshit it is you are saying, I’ll give it a few minutes more, for your amusement.
Are you suggesting that the group Bin Laden lead while fighting the Russians in Afghanistan was not funded by US cash funneled from the US via various ‘foundations’ and think-tanks’,
Yep. I’m saying that. There is little to no credible evidence that the US funded AQ, and nothing at all that is conlcusive. The so called ‘Arab afghans’ were few in number (under 10,000) and pretty much kept to themselves. They were funded by Arabs, including OBL. OBL, late in the war, set up AQ as a database of arab mujaheddin to be used in fighting the ‘near enemy’ That’s why it translates as ‘the base’ and it’s why in those grainy ‘training videos’ you see them doing guerilla warfare training rather than terrorist training.
Those who claim AQ was funded and or created by the CIA or the US, tend to be ignorant about the war and the philosophies of those involved. They assume that because the CIA was providing funds and weapons to mujaheddin that this included AQ. It’s lazy and ignorant,, but suits their purpose.
Even more amusing, is the supposed fear of ‘weapons of mass destruction’, now where have we heard that little tale before
All sorts of places. the most relevant would be Iraq after the first gulf war. The regime admits it has them, the rest of the world’s intelligence agencies agree. Are you saying they do not? based on what? A logical fallacy along the lines of ‘Bush claimed Saddam had wmd in 2003 but he didn’t, therefore all such claims are false” perhaps? (And I’ll just note in passing here that I never mentioned WMD, the concern around that is real of course, but the missile stocks and other conventional weaponry is just as troubling).
Surely you could not be that stupid. So please. if you doubt he has chemical weapons, outline the reasons for that doubt in the face of the evidence that he does have them.
Bin Laden and any group He headed are essentially mercenaries, they may hate the West and the ruling class of the various Arab potentates, but, are still guns for hire as are a large number of other Arab staffed groups currently aiding in the destruction of the State of Syria,
Citation very much required, because that is hilarious. If one reads the histories of AQ and Blackwater, one is struck by the similarit.., nah, that’s just fucking daft.
Feel free tho to allow the mainstream media to tell you what to think of the current situation as it is at the least amusing to examine your belief system which does not seem to have been altered by the events in either Iraq or Afghanistan…
So come on, tell me about my belief system and how it related to those wars, and how it didn’t change.
And then, tell me where you get your information from, if not from the media. Because at the moment it looks like you reject something if it is said in the media, as long as it doesn’t conform to your preconceived notions about how things ‘really are’.
Reposted from bad12’s attempt at a reply here:
http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-09012013/comment-page-1/#comment-571037
It’s all pretty weak, and anticipated in my comment.
You’ve ignored most of what I said, and have, as predicted, conflated mujaheddin with AQ.
Here’s your initial; claim:
You have to get with the real picture, prior to September 11 Al Qaeda were US funded and armed assets during the Soviet/Afghan war
Operation cyclone was about supporting the mujaheddin, and there is no conclusive evidence that OBL was funded. The implication that he was directly funded by the US is even harder to substantiate, which is probably why you are having such a hard time coming up with any good direct sources or quotes.
I’ll repost this in the relevant thread and hopefully we’ll see something substantive.
I really want to hear about my belief system and the evidence for doubt about Assad’s weaponry
“intent of Russian landing ships to discourage West from placing special forces on the ground”
-Kakariki
Where is anyone in the western MSM calling it a humanitarian mission ( as opposed to reporting that it is being called that by the syrian rebels)? (Your link is 404d and I can’t find it).
Here is a copy of the guys peace proposal from back in september:
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2012/09/14/suggestion_for_mediation_between_the_islamic_movements_and_the_west?page=0,1
(Hope that link works, you might need to register to FP to see it, which is free to do and well worth while, even if just to see what FP pros are saying).
There is nothing too surprising in it. Mohamed al-Zawahiri is a founding member of the Egyptian Islamic Jihad, and his ‘peace proposal’ reflects that. ‘Sharia law = peace’ pretty much.
Here’s the link cache and Mohammed al-Zawahiri rebuffing reports of his arrest in Syria.
Thanks.
Eve: not seeing any justification for your claim that the ‘MSM’ are calling it a humanitarian mission. That piece, and it looks to be the one you linked to, outlines the links between violent Islamic extremists and the rebels in some detail.
Reality diverging from something Ev said? This comes as a surprise to you?
No you are right. The “rebels” are telling us he was there on a humanitarian mission. And the article is faithfully repeating that. While claiming that Assad will no doubt try to make the most of the capture of this friendly old man who was according to the “rebels” only trying to broker deals so aid could get through and daffodils could grow in peace.
That would be the same rebels who force children to decapitate unarmed prisoners, <a href="chop Christians up and feed them to the dogs, Force children to dig their own graves and captives to do suicide missions to save their families just to name a few of the “liberators” humanitarian actions!
Oh, and chant allegiance to Osama bin Laden whom you still believe send 19 young Muslims to the US to break Newtons laws of Physics!
I’m confused as to what your complaint is.
The article reports some facts.
– The regime claims about the capture
– The rebel’s response to those claims
– Some background on some of the rebel groups.
What’s the actual problem?
Which claims do you dispute?
You stated that the MSM had never suggested that al Zawahiri had been on a humanitarian mission. I put it to you that by omitting his connection with extremely unpleasant CIA financed “rebels” and these “rebels” claiming that Zawahiri was only in Syria because of humanitarian reasons the did not dispel the notion that under the circumstances it would have been extremely unlikely that he was there because he wanted to be nice.
In fact they suggested that Assad would do just that, implying that just because Zawahiri was in Syria talking with “rebels” and with his violent al Qaeda background this did not mean he was there for nefarious reasons and that Assad would just use his capture for propaganda reasons.
Other than that your comment is disingenuous as you were the one “complaining” that the MSM had not in fact claimed themselves that Z was in Syria for Humanitarian reasons. I like it when you do that because while I know you won’t go to any of the link I give there are many who do which helps spreading information which might allow people to make up their mind in different ways than the Propaganda machine would like
I put it to you that by omitting his connection with extremely unpleasant CIA financed “rebels” and these “rebels” claiming that Zawahiri was only in Syria because of humanitarian reasons the did not dispel the notion that under the circumstances it would have been extremely unlikely that he was there because he wanted to be nice.
Well, let’s see what the ‘MSM’ said after reporting the conflicting claims about what the claimed presence of Zawahiri means:
They detail the reported presence of various AQ related people and groups within Syria, if anything, that supports the regimes claims, does it not? Are they denying, or downplaying the links to AQ?
What would rather they do:
1) Censor the claims by the rebels and just report the regimes claims?
Or
2)report the claims of all sides, and the known links, and allow readers to exercise their judgement about the claims made?
PB, are you really trying to use logic on a ticking fruitcake? Well good look and I applaud your optimism, but keep that up and we might be questioning your sanity too.
Labour is at a critical point in its life cycle. If it doesn’t make changes soon it will continue to slowly slide backwards in the poles. The main winner will be the Greens. The other winner will be National as the swing voters will chose to stay with them.
I have been a member of the Labour Party for a mere 18 months, and its been a real let down the way MP’s treat members… “amateur” is the word that comes to mind. The Caucus need a real shake up otherwise long term Labour support is going to continue to decline. But then you get the impression that many in the caucus don’t really care about the Party in the long term!
(ps: I have always had the impression that TRP has a contact in the ABC club.)
+1
National’s friends are wanting the Commerce Commission to be gutted because it is attempting to reduce Chorus charges.
According to an earnest sounding Simon Botherway on Radio New Zealand the surge in the share market experienced last year is threatened because investors will be afraid that the Commission “has become an activist body for consumers and forgotten about the risk that investors take with their money.” Obviously the return to investors should be the only concern of the Government body.
He makes no comment about whether or not Chorus’s charges were justified. Perhaps he thought this to be irrelevant.
This typifies the attitude of the wealthy and was an underlying cause of the global financial crisis. Returns to investors are never enough and any entity which stands in the way must be weakened.
We have still got a long way to go before New Zealand’s utilities quake before regulators. It’s the usual drill:
(A) Ask the (insert major industry) for advice on how to regulate, to which they reply it’s too hard, truly, and should be best left to self-regulation. Under National this usually works, but often works under Labour as well.
(B) When the self-regulation idea fails, the (insert major industry) sets itself up as the collective wisdom in this terrifyingly complex field and provides all the research for the government Department drafting the regulations. And then poach their staff.
(C) When the limits of this – and all the stalling entailed within it – are reached, the (insert major industry) seeks “peer review” from “international best practise” which a thin little country like this couldn’t know, and all the major consultants in the world for (insert major industry) know that the government job will be a one-off, but the industry will be around for ever buttering their bread.
(D) After several years, and a change of government, which (insert relevant industry) 3rd party funded up the wazoo to get in, the Board of the regulator is formed after all manner of golf games have been played
(E) The regulations are finally enacted, which are so complicated because of the size and power and national importance of the (insert major industry) that only a real dork of a lawyer couldn’t find a loophole, and finally
(F) By the time everyone’s filed and counter-filed and appealed to all relevant layers, there’s been no regulation for well over a decade. Or another fresh government has decided the whole thing just wasn’t worthwhile so we all just have to start again with a different kind of regulatory system, new legislation, and a restructure of the regualtors themselves.
This is practise we are seeing now, as with the massive utility price case we see down at the Wellington High Court which has been going on for several years now and will be appealed for several more.
Or you could do what the last Labour leader with any balls did with a major utility: cut their head off. Poor old Telecom. They hadn’t realised that David Cunliffe had ensured that the Cabinet SubCommittee had been fully delegated to make the decision to cleave them in half, rather than needing the next full Cabinet meeting.
That was not only policy in action, that was Leadership. That’s what it feels like.
+1 an interesting analysis would be the amount in each utility bill that goes to lawyers, auditors, staff and management overhead required to deal with compliance issues including base regulation, comm comm tiffs etc, so in effect the whole shooting match that’s grown since these were all gov’t departments.
Some are nonsense and must be challenged as the regulators often go ‘how about this, that should give us all something to do…’ and some are essential to prevent profiteering. Problem is the big money isn’t spent by the rule makers it’s the Utilities who invest big to ensure they stay one step ahead, all at the consumers cost.
DC showed how it’s done with TCom and they showed arrogance and contempt for the open market. IMO it effectively set a standard the cowering caucus know they’ll not measure up to.
I miss the box on the voting form to re-nationalise industries, that would be an interesting result.
The only thing that needs to be done with utilities is that they should be brought back into government ownership as a state monopoly. It’s the only way to get lower costs and it does that by getting rid of the mass duplication of competition.
hmmm
Hey IrishBill you issued a major policy challenge on the weekend. Big call for the authors here, and the editors.
When are you going to start turning that into a project – something beyond the usual wishlists and fantasies and theoretical catastrophies I see here usually?
Another great Charter School story!
http://tv.msnbc.com/2013/01/03/chicago-charter-schools-rake-in-thousands-in-disciplinary-fees/
Lots more here TP.
http://charterschoolscandals.blogspot.co.nz/
Standardistas to the barricades!
Over at the National Business Review there is a lively comments section underneath their printing of Brian Edwards’ now infamous paean for “Sir” Paul Holmes.
What makes it more interesting than usual is that one of the commenters is one David Walden, a puffy advertising man who, together with Murray Deaker, ran the idiotic Black Heart campaign in 2003, which had to be closed down after a series of incidents, including restaurateurs refusing to serve the Alinghi crew, and some supporters physically threatening the Alinghi crew members’ families.
With not even the slightest sense of irony, Walden has posted the following gem: “God I hate the small minds in this country who take a swipe at anyone who has the balls to put their head above the parapet, have a go , and succeed. Get a life!”
Why don’t YOU comment? It’s easy and you’ll get straight through….
http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/paul-holmes-–-starry-starry-knight-ck-134310#comment-600818
Back at work again. The DIY “holiday” is now behind me. No more cables to hide, washing lines to install, doors and windows to fix, toilets to stop dribbling, computers to change hard drives with SSD’s, etc etc.
I got a lot less done than I wanted on The Standard.
damn. I just looked at the article and comments and got all tired.
C’mon, McFliper, you c’n do it! Best strategy, seeing as you’ve already read the offending article, is to skip the mediocre thing and go straight to the comments.
it’s a week old already.
You obviously are immune to the very real pleasures to be had in flogging a dead horse.
Yep. I prefer to let them rot, if they’re well out of my way. It’s only when I’m in danger of stepping in one that I feel compelled to manhandle it out of the way.
Shearer shows he means it – by Mike Smith – December 21, 2011
Quoted below in full, without further comment.
http://thestandard.org.nz/shearer-shows-he-means-it/
Hi CV
“Gone is the ritual opening denunciation of the government’s programme”
yeah, cos they probably intend to do much the same if they ever get into power.
“He understands what New Zealanders expect of their MPs.”
Is this a statement of fact? I guess if it is said enough times some people will start to believe it.
Far be it for anyone to point out that being positive and looking forward might be just as legitimate a political tactic as doing nothing but criticising and whinging from the sidelines like a tool.
I’m not doing nothing. I’m questioning these above statements.
When an opposition party remains as quiet as Labour have this year over the vast array of issues occurring, you can be assured that a large number of potential voters will assume what I have in the above comment. Crying and complaining about that being stated as much as you like, however it won’t change the veracity of it.
It goes like this: “Why bother voting? The two main parties are much of a muchness”
Sound familiar?
Many voters not voting is o.k for whoever gets in, they still get the baubles of office. This is not-so good for the general welfare of the country however. Is this type of moral hazard going on in our main opposition party?
You are welcome to be positive. At present I see no real reason for that with regard to Labour’s recent behaviour.
Any business would know that complaints are an opportunity for improvement. Far better than people having a negative thoughts/experiences and keeping quiet. Word of mouth is the most effective advertising. But of course, McFliper, you know that, that is probably why you wrote your comment. Here’s a thought: instead of complaining about well-founded comments, how about complaining to the Labour caucus that their message ain’t strong enough? That way we will both be happy.
yeah sorry, I wasn’t actually meaning anybody here when I wrote it, and that’s the truth. Sorry I didn’t express myself properly. Possibly linked to the wrong comment, too.
Indeed, part of my opposition to the seemingly incessant anti-shearer stuff some commenters put forward here is expressly because this forum is not just an echo-chamber. And I fundamentally disagree that nact and lab are “much of a muchness”.
But I think that putting positives forward rather than attacking directly is a legitimate tactic in this case:
a) key and nact will not rise to it. They don’t give a shit, and will lie without a flicker of doubt. This lessens the effectiveness;
b) Mana/Greens/NZ1 are attacking, and even some good work by labour front benches (Ardern has been very active in areas of my interest). Rather than overload the opposition with negativity, I think the leader (whomever it be) should provide vision (in a positive comparison to when Key lays down the credibility of his ministers to save himself);
c) Labour did the attack thing all through the last term, to little avail. Time for a reconsider, is my guess.
Yes, complaints are an opportunity for improvement. But sometimes the squeakiest wheel is not needed, at which point it behoves one to consider the cost/benefit of just letting it seize up or fall off rather than feeding it more grease.
ps sorry about the handle change – form autofill on another machine 🙂
Ah that’s a relief, I thought I was heading for another “be positive; no I won’t” type conversation. There have been enough of them!
Yes it is good to list the positives I agree with most of the list apart from c), which I don’t think amounted to much compared with the other parties. I really do have a real worry about what type of government Labour are planning to create next time they are in power and this concern largely comes from the weakness surrounding their attacks on this current “government” (well that’s what is is commonly called, anyway…more closely resembling a circus if you asked me…).
I usually get rather annoyed with people saying that Nat and Labour are much of a muchness, there is a distinct difference when each party is in power (for those on the extreme ends of poverty/wealth anyway). My comment was really trying to illustrate what I believe is a general impression created by a lackadaisical opposition style…didn’t Labour have an approach of cooperation with the last term’s Government in order to come across as “fair and reasonable”? What effect did that have on the voter turn-out? Just sharing my train of thought here, not hard and fast conclusions, however they are getting that way….
That is an interesting comment re letting the squeaky wheel seize up…that is a good point.
The trouble with the 2011 campaign is that it can be made to say nothing of note.
People who want to point out Labour being reasonable as a cause of their turnout, can.
People who want to say Labour was “too left” in the campaign by going back to its roots and scaring off voters, can.
People who want to say labour was “too negative”, can.
It’s like 2014: if the next two years are like 2012, then Labour’s low vote will be blamed on Shearer by Cunliffe supporters, and blamed on negative-nellies by Shearer supporters (or those who are happy for any change from National and hope that the minor parties rather than Labour will drive the major policy shifts).
There’s also an instinctive bias that what we recall of Labour 2008-11 is what others recall. My personal impression is that Labour left the policy push too late, and that prior to that they still had the tired look from the 2008 defeat.
I think that if Labour bounce around policy ideas this year (and yes have an open leadership vote if Cunliffe or anyone wants to run), they can have a bit more “oomph” in 2014 than 08/11.
..which kinda leads to a question I have been pondering recently. Are the Labour Party doing any market research on their strengths and weaknesses, as in, doing some sort of information gathering on what might have been the cause of their poor results last election? Or low voter turnout?
I realize this type of research would never be entirely accurate, however it would be good to know that some sort of feedback loop was being conducted; trends could probably be discovered.
I get the impression this is not occurring.
lol
cf: comments here, here, here,and here. Some people disagree with your impression, and indeed think it’s occurring too much 🙂
Talk to the membership.
NO NEED FOR MARKET RESEARCH. That is what is f#c@ing us.
We are a political party. The values, issues, concerns, worries, ambitions and the family, community, business activities of our members is our information database.
That is why we changed our constitution, so that the input of the members will have more influence on the Caucus.
Our MPs, NZ Council reps, Policy and Sectoral people are connected to most facets of society and the economy. (Perhaps a few in the “Beltway” of Wellington are not!)
Most of the frustration expressed in these pages in the past year have been a cry for the Caucus to listen to the MEMBERS.
and there 🙂
hmm yes…I see what you mean McFlock re KV’s response (heh), however the links you provided appeared to be talking about focus groups for policies. I was more talking about perceptions and finding peoples’ reasons for the non-vote…I think there would be important information to be had out of such research. In fact I have already commented on what I figure might be one cause.
Khandalla Viper (&McFlock) I believe I am referring to something different than what you are talking about. The end result of what you promote in your comment and what I am referring to may achieve the same thing; more connection with the voters.
Lets not be forgetting that a lot (if not most) voters are not reading up on policies at election-time*; there is something else that they are basing their vote on.
*I admit this is an assumption, yet one I am prepared to risk making.
It is my perception that Labour have been really flailing around, kind of stabbing in the dark, as to their general approach, for years. Policies are very important (obviously), however strategy is too. I believe Nat is popular solely due to strategy, not policies. Isn’t the Asset Sales policy a case in point? Knowing what is turning voters off is pretty important information, and when it comes to elections I suspect (sadly) that policy is a very small part of what makes a Party popular.
“And I fundamentally disagree that nact and lab are “much of a muchness””
I can’t speak for anyone else, but my version of that complaint is that Labour has, in effect, become part of the mechanism of shutting out opposition to the assumptions of neoliberalism, or whatever you wish to call it.
It’s like the ‘good cop’ to National’s ‘bad cop’ – but the overall effect is the same; to get the electorate to submit to the ‘inevitability’ of a deregulated, market-based, ‘non-political’ means of making collective determinations about our future as a society.
To the extent that Labour continues to cleave to the economic individualism rationale for solving social issues (e.g., housing crises) it remains a non-left party by any substantive definition of what the term ‘left’ means.
Only through proudly advocating collective, political means to solve social issues could it correctly be called a left-wing party. Remember that even Douglas claimed that he wanted the same ‘ends’ as Labour had always wanted – he was just implementing different ‘means’.
The means are actually what distinguish ‘left’ and ‘right’ because the means are the ends – it’s all about different ways to run a society, after all.
It is in that sense that I think the current Labour caucus is part of the same ‘symphony’ and acts (no doubt unwittingly) in concert with National – albeit Labour performs a different ‘movement’ from that performed by National, with correspondingly different ‘tones’.
@Puddleglum
I fundamentally agree with your comment, Your first two paragraphs describe well, in my mind, why I hear many many comments re “the two main parties being much of a muchness”.
In the bigger picture, perhaps they are not so very different, however, when it comes to details, I disagree with them being (exactly) the same. i.e. it does make a difference having a Labour/coalition government. i.e when someone says to me “I’m not voting because all parties are the same” I implore them to vote (as long as they seem like a left wing voter!!).
Agree.
I believe that even small differences matter greatly – often to many people.
‘Good cops’ are better to have dealing with you than ‘bad cops’.
Voting matters immensely – and always will – in that way. It is one way of making society less painful for many people.
My father always used the old line – ‘If you don’t vote, you can’t complain’; and he was a lifelong socialist (having given up on the Communist Party at age 13). The lesser of two evils is still the lesser of two evils.
Labour is not a revolutionary party and hasn’t been for decades. I doubt it ever will be again.
Reversing neoliberal market-based approaches needs revolutionary perspectives forced by the minor parties so that the accepted norm shifts left again. Kiwibank, rail, are cases in point.
People who want a fundamental reversal of key’s policies, let alone lab4, need to givetheir vote to either parliamentary left parties, or even get more extreme left parties up to approaching 1% so that parliamentary parties start poaching their policies. Or the ~1%ers even get elected themselves.
Give power to the greens and mana and labour will move left despite those in its caucus who are idiot careerists. The difference between labour and national is that national need act to make them look like a moderating force rather than looters and thieves. Labour want to do good but are too afraid. It is still a fundamental difference.
People by nature have a bias towards optimism and expecting the best outcomes. That’s why a slogan like towards a brighter future is so manipulative and cynical. Sometimes “optimistic” is exactly the same as “unrealistic”.
+1 …sometimes quite a lot these days….
On the about-to-be sold assets; advice from DPMC:
“DPMC’s guidance note sets out how ministers and officials should talk publicly about listed companies, stressing the importance of making any market-moving decision outside of trading hours.
Ministers should only make a major statement that could affect a listed company when trading is open when there is a compelling reason.”
Opposition unbound, with National caught in the worst of both worlds.
So the Asset Sale Opposition Leadership mantle Race begins again: Which Labour or Green or NZ First MP will be the first to talk the price down?
Posted this on Sunday night, reposting now to catch a few more peeps, relevant since we are talking about more manufacturing job losses in NZ.
Rolls Royce Engines: the beauty of high value manufacturing
An amazing documentary, showing the kinds of wealth, capability and community that high tech, high added value manufacturing brings. It also makes it clear that this kind of expertise is gained over many years or decades and has to be protected and nurtured over the long term.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3XssrFqWF0
love don’t live here…anymore
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supermarine_Spitfire_variants:_specifications,_performance_and_armament#The_Rolls-Royce_Merlin_and_Griffon_engines
Now thats spitting Horsepower
Oh that was lovely – incredibly beautiful, functional, high performance works of engineering and art.
Unfortunately the nagging voice of global warming in the back of my mind made it feel a bit like Pr0n
Enjoy the fruits of high energy civilisation while they are around, and yes enjoy the jet engines too 😀
There’s a couple of books that I think would be good for Labour to have a look at in the leadup to 2014:
Get out the Vote : how to increase voter turnout (2nd ed) (2008)
The Victory Lab: the Secret Science of Winning Campaigns (2012)
Yes, they are in the US context, but campaigning has changed – and it’s more than just flinging up a Facebook page or tweeting now and then. Buying ads on Youtube to get younger voters for example.
I’m not so sure the fundamentals have changed:
Target advertising messages/policy discussions at the medium for each market;
target each speech to the audience;
get as much facetime as possible;
release news statements to frame discussion as soon as possible – lead events don’t just react (or even worse do nothing);
involve your party membership in electioneering activities;
maintain contact with voters who show interest;
keep initiating contact with voters who don’t;
use party activists to register electors in target areas;
get the vote out on the day.
another Irish blessing
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2013/0107/1224328508613.html
It’s a Beautiful Day; U2?
Forking Hay (again)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michel_Foucault#The_History_of_Sexuality
Haberdashery
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C3%BCrgen_Habermas
A Place in The Sun?
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0043924/
Shilo, when I was young, I used to call your name, when no one else would come…
The Turn of The Shrew
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Turn_of_the_Screw
The Taming of The Screw
http://www.amazon.com/Varieties-Religious-Experience-Penguin-American/dp/0140390340
James Gang
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0443680/ (and the Coward Robert Ford)
more Habbadashery-Why do we look at injustice? Why do we tolerate wrong? Destruction and violence are before us; strife and conflict abounds. Therefore the law is paralyzed (aware of the backlog in the courts since “reform school”), and justice rarely prevails.
-You have made men like fish in the sea, like sea creatures that have no ruler. The wicked foe pulls all of them up with hooks, he catches them in his net. he gathers them up in his dragnet; for by his net he lives in luxury and enjoys the choicest food. is he to keep on emptying his net, destroying nations without mercy?
“Woe to him who piles up stolen goods and makes himself wealthy by extortion! How long must this go on? Will not your debtors suddenly arise? Will they not wake and make you tremble? Then you will become their victim. For the revelation awaits an appointed time; It speaks of an end and it will not prove false. Though it linger, wait for it;
‘Iranophobia” pursued across the border
http://www.china.org.cn/world/2013-01/07/content_27607673.htm
Yesterday I found an article about H1N1 cases in China (but it’s disappeared now)
The Never-ending Story in The Labyrinth cacooning
http://www.espnwsummit.com/brightspotcreative/index.php/attendee_bios/view?name=Faith%20Popcorn
scattering cushions and sitting back to watch the future
-a plan so cunning we can pin a tail on it and call it a Weasel 🙂
“to live at all is miracle enough”-Peake experiences
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0197154/
Pico… pico…pico
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pico_Mirandola
“Nourish the cock, but do not sacrifice him, since he is sacred to the sun and the moon”(forget the greek I think it was)
-every pebble is an exception so Blam Blam blame?
“Allegory is life giving and and biblical “literalism” as meant today, is life denying”. Now all these things happened unto them for examples and they are written for our admonition.
Can we hear the bells of St Paul: Shane
another “confession” http://books.google.co.nz/books/about/Confessions.html?id=GbpZpda5y4QC&redir_esc=y ; an Excellent translation
just Bragg ing
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/reviews/the-book-of-books-by-melvyn-bragg-2276039.html
(I’m not looking for a New England) William Wilberforce read the KJ every day (obviously I don’t) and had it’s cadences and rhythms running through his veins= Obama-care
meanwhile, now the Commerce Commission are under attack (for being a “consumer Watchdog” ??? wtf) by Investors and their fund managers
Greed! was a discussion I had with a tangata whenua tane the other day; “No Limit to it”, he asserted. Pushin’ buttons? see the supermarkets after the New Year break? people were clearly emaciated and needed some more chippies and soft drink.
Face To Face http://www.paperbackswap.com/Human-Face-God-John-A-T-Robinson/book/066420970X/
Honest! :)(On The Beach; the lifesavers are rescuing record business) 🙁
-John
@ Colonial Viper
A personal note to Colonial Viper regarding your comment yesterday:
“Like “freedom fries”? Not sure if this is where you are coming from, but I have a dislike of the American-style use of ‘freedom’ as a word pseudo-representing all that is good and wholesome and God-fearing in the world.”
For a first hand account of what it is like to lose virtually all of one’s “freedoms” at the hands of a dictatorial regime, contact an amiable acquaintance of mine, Kim Dotcom.
Hi AmaKiwi. For real ‘democracy’ and ‘freedom’ we have to move beyond a sole ballot box focus to that of broader democratic institutions, checks and balances (which might include binding referenda), and values throughout society.
Specifically applied to the Kim Dotcom case, the police and the SIS need to be acting in ways which uphold democracy, natural justice and due process, not offshore corporatism.
Brief outages this evening are to setup the firewalls at the main servers and to widen the data pipe
Test message
Test that I haven’t broken the awkwardly fragile re-edit
Seems to be working
Ok – looks like the SSL for authors works ok.
Another brief outage to increase the server CPU, and then I’m off to bed
Ouch. Didn’t really expect that the server would very slowly resize it’s disk footprint because I wanted more CPU. But it is ok now after the site was offline for an hour.
I’ll see if that fixes the peaking issues from todays dose of bots.
Tommorrow’s task is less of a problem – round two of the backup systems.
my own test message to get my viperous name back.
Awesome. And a new adjective introduced to the English language too 🙂