Open mike 07/08/2012

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, August 7th, 2012 - 106 comments
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Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

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Step right up to the mike…

106 comments on “Open mike 07/08/2012 ”

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  1. Carol 1
    7 August 2012 at 8:06 am

    Key’s tone has softened, but he still shows no evidence in practice that he’ll take any notice of the Waitangi Tribunal report on water rights. Meanwhile he continues to try to split Maori, and Sharples acts like a door mat.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10825091

    What happened to the Maori Party that was born in protest, principle and a willingness to stand up and tell it like it is. The only mitigating factor is that Sharples recognises the Maori water right issue will most likely end up in court. And where is Turia on this? She was the main driving force for setting up the Maori Party over the conflict with government on the foreshore and seabed. Now she just seems to be hiding.

    Prime Minister John Key and Maori Party co-leader Pita Sharples. Photo / Mark Mitchell
    Prime Minister John Key and Maori Party co-leader Pita Sharples. Photo / Mark Mitchell

    Maori Party co-leader Pita Sharples says he expects the Maori water rights wrangle to end up in the courts after his party failed to secure an assurance from the Government last night that it would pay heed to any Waitangi Tribunal findings.

    Dr Sharples and co-leader Tariana Turia had a two-hour meeting with Prime Minister John Key, Finance Minister Bill English and Treaty Negotiations Minister Chris Finlayson.

    Afterwards, Dr Sharples said the only assurance given was that the Government would wait for an interim report from the Waitangi Tribunal on August 24 before proceeding with the sale of Mighty River Power. He believed it was likely the issue would end up in the courts.

    Dr Sharples said Mr Key had also emphasised that he believed it should be dealt with iwi by iwi, despite the decision at a hui yesterday to set up a pan-Maori group including iwi leaders, the Maori Council and other groups.

    “But Maori believe there are national principles that apply across the board, so I guess that has to be worked through.”

    He said the Maori Party often disagreed with National but did not believe walking away would benefit Maori.

    Earlier yesterday, Mr Key rejected suggestions that water rights could be resolved on a pan-Maori basis, saying such rights were best sorted out “river by river, iwi by iwi”.

    He said many iwi agreed with his view – that it was a matter for negotiation by individual iwi.

    What is certain is that Key will not stop his drive for asset sales, democracy, rights, fairness, consideration of what is best for the country and the majority of it’s people….. nothing will stand in his way.

    • Socialist Paddy 1.1
      7 August 2012 at 8:21 am

      Interesting wording by the Herald.

      Do they really mean that the Government will wait for the Waitangi Tribunal decision to be given AND THEN will proceed with the share sale?

      Pita where is your mana, man? Stand up to the bastard. 

      • Carol 1.1.1
        7 August 2012 at 8:33 am

        Yes, Key, I think (as heard on RNZ this morning) that Maori water rights can still be negotiated on an individual level after the asset sales go ahead.

        I think he also is saying he will wait for an interim report from the Waitangi tribunal later in August, will talk to the Maori Party again…. then go ahead with asset sales.

        Of course, Maori sticking together nationally over this will give their case strength. However, for Key, he’s more likely to weaken the results Maori get, by negotiating with individual iwi after the sales have occurred.

        • BillODrees 1.1.1.1
          7 August 2012 at 9:10 am

          Key had taken the strongest negotiation stance from his point of view. What the Maori party need to do is be smarter in “game play”.  If they want to play with the big boys they need to plan and strategise like big boys(and girls!).

          The Maori Party has the Tribunal, the Courts, the Maori Council, other political parties and the mass of the people of New Zealand to use in their game plan.

          Use it! Get a smart game plan together quickly and execute it sharply. 

    • rosy 1.2
      7 August 2012 at 8:27 am

      I reckon Peter Sharples believes what he wants to believe, rather than hear what Key actually says. Sharples believes asset sales are likely to be delayed. Key has given no indication that he’ll allow that to happen.

      On the other hand…

      there are a limited number of windows each year in which a share offer can take place,” English and Ryall said last week.

      “Delaying a decision beyond the first week of September and losing the 2012 window for the offer would have significant consequences, not only for the MRP offer, but also in delaying the rest of the share offer programme over the next two years.”

      It’s pretty clear why Key wants iwi by iwi settlement. Hand out the minimum require to get the job done, and not worry what might be brewing for future conflict.

    • felix 1.3
      7 August 2012 at 8:30 am

      Interesting wording alright, and that’s certainly the interpretation Pita seems to think fits.

      I heard English the other day say they’d been working on these sales for four years. Anyone else hear that? Can’t remember where.

      Thought that was a bit odd, ‘cos right through their first term they denied doing any such work and anyone who called bullshit on them was labelled a conspiracy theorist.

      Weird eh?

      • Pete George 1.3.1
        7 August 2012 at 8:38 am

        “right through their first term they denied doing any such work”

        I’m sure you can show where they did this.

        I recall them saying they wouldn’t sell any assets in their first term. They didn’t. Nothing odd about that.

      • Tigger 1.3.2
        7 August 2012 at 9:04 am

        Treasury did that work, Felix. And OIA would show it.

      • Vicky32 1.3.3
        7 August 2012 at 5:56 pm

        I heard English the other day say they’d been working on these sales for four years

        I am not surprised by that…

    • Dr Terry 1.4
      7 August 2012 at 9:46 am

      Carol, quite right, nothing will stand in his way – particularly while he continues to enjoy rather large support for his tactics. Key is a gambler who is, unfortunately, accustomed to winning.

  2. ultra-left 2
    7 August 2012 at 8:11 am

    As New Zealanders mourn their latest casualties in Afghanistan, Egypt is reeling from the deaths of fifteen border guards in the Sinai peninsula. Every New Zealander knows about this country’s contribution to the ‘stabilisation’ of Afghanistan, but few know that it has troops in the Sinai operating as de facto reinforcements for the Israeli blockade of Gaza. These forces should be withdrawn before they fall victim to the growing violence in the Sinai. This 2011 blog post makes the case for withdrawal from Sinai:
    http://readingthemaps.blogspot.co.nz/2011/02/what-are-kiwi-troops-doing-in-egypt.html

    • TT 2.1
      7 August 2012 at 11:20 am

      Noted that. And noted that Egypt still does nothing to oppose Zionist incursions into their territory, letting them destroy their military hardware with not even a whisper of dissent. The new president seems powerless to exert any influence over the military. The dream is for a Islamic super-state with Jerusalem as it’s capital. Right now that just looks like a distant pipe dream, especially with the Egyptians talking of bringing their brothers to “justice” for the sadly futile attack on the zionists, rather than the enemy themselves. The only glimmer of hope at the moment is with a hopeful change to a Sunni government in Syria, there will be the impetus that the Arab nations need to finally wipe the zionists from history once and for all. I still don’t hold out hope though. The illegal blockade of Gaza should be over already. The Muslim Brotherhoold should be providing heavy arms to Hamas so they can defend their territory against zionist aggression. It seems that the protocols are correct, and the influence of the zionists is at the moment too pervasive.

      • McFlock 2.1.1
        7 August 2012 at 11:25 am

         finally wipe the zionists from history once and for all.  

        seriously?

        • Bored 2.1.1.1
          7 August 2012 at 1:24 pm

          Zionists piss me off, but so then does every religious nutter..I very much doubt that the State of Israel and “Zionism” will last much beyond the ability of moneyed Zionists to heavily influence US election outcomes. Imperial over-reach will kill Pax Americana, and with it the rogue settler state in its current form, just as the Crusader states failed centuries ago.

          I am hoping the more forward thinking residents of Israel and the Arab states might have a better vision that allows them both to flourish together. Optimistic I know but the alternative is too frightful to contemplate.

      • pukeko 2.1.2
        7 August 2012 at 11:54 am

        Kāore anō nei i weto ngā ngārahu o te ahi i mura ai i ngā wā kua pahure.

        Tēnei te hoki mai nei me te ngākau pōuri, me te ngākau tangi mō koutou kua ngaro i ōku tirohanga kanohi, i ā tātou mahi, i ā tātou nohoanga tahi.

      • Verity 2.1.3
        7 August 2012 at 8:00 pm

        The protocols?

  3. ad 3
    7 August 2012 at 8:45 am

    The Gods have announced a few things recently.

    Jupiter has ordered Mars to let the Democratic candidate win the United States Presidential election;

    Thanatos has requested of Key that he actually generate a less subservient foreign policy, quick;

    The Waikato Taniwha has determined that it will stop the sale of New Zealand’s public assets;

    and

    Tongariro has cleared its throat for Valeri Adams and declared it will be good.

    Great to feel a tilt in the cosmic order this morning.

  4. Pete George 4
    7 August 2012 at 9:43 am

    Judith Collins has replied to a request for her position on the minimum price of alcohol:

    The Government is currently investigating a minimum pricing scheme for alcohol.

    The Government wants to make sure that any pricing strategy will reduce harm caused by alcohol without unduly impacting responsible drinkers.

    I am waiting until the investigation is complete before making any decisions about implementing a minimum pricing scheme.

    – Judith Collins on minimum price of alcohol

    This sounds like a very good approach to me. The proof will be in the end result.

    • Draco T Bastard 4.1
      7 August 2012 at 10:02 am

      No PG, it’s the normal weasel words that mean nothing that we get from RWNJs.

    • Socialist Paddy 4.2
      7 August 2012 at 11:18 am

      Did you read this Petey?

      In particular this?

      “International reviews have concluded that increasing the price of alcohol is one of the most effective strategies to reduce the consumption of alcohol and, therefore, alcohol-related harm. Establishing a minimum price is a targeted way to reduce the availability of cheap alcohol.”

  5. vto 5
    7 August 2012 at 9:44 am

    Maybe I missed something in the context but did I hear Pita Sharples say on te wireless this morning that he has been told by Iwi leaders etc to stay in the govt at pretty much all costs?

    Great tactics and negotiating skills there Pita……. bloody hell ……

    He basically just gave away any decent negotiatng position they had.

  6. TT 6
    7 August 2012 at 10:33 am

    Zionist war criminal John Keys is spending $60 million of the peoples money to build a shrine to further glorify anglo-saxon committed genocide.
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/7428737/Key-revives-60m-war-memorial-for-capital

    [lprent: Merely blaring assertions without supporting argument(s) however brief tends to draw the moderators eye. If it happens too often then we start viewing those blasting slogans as being rogue processes rather than people and start applying kill troll routines. That is what you’re looking like to me after reading a few of your mindless comments. Please read the policy. ]

    • higherstandard 6.1
      7 August 2012 at 11:58 am

      troll.

    • Bored 6.2
      7 August 2012 at 1:07 pm

      TT, I find your quick labeling of John Key as a Zionist war criminal somewhat puzzling, as I do the accusation of the glorification of Anglo Saxon genocide.

      Lets start with John Key, yes he is Jewish, and he is a banker BUT does that make him Zionist? Yes he has not withdrawn our troops from Afghanistan, but I don’t see that makes him a war criminal. Remember please I for one cant stand the bastard, but your accusation does not help in any way.

      Anglo Saxon genocide….all empires since time immemorial commit genocides, that cant be denied by the British any more than the Romans, Americans, Mongols etc…it is not an exclusive trait. You can bet that the people of the imperial core nations (like the Saxons or Romans) would probably find the concept of committing genocide or being labeled for genocide rather nasty. I doubt any Germans born post war want the stigma of the “holocaust”, attached to them, they were not after all born at the time. It might be more helpful to rail against imperial systems in general.

  7. joe90 7
    7 August 2012 at 10:42 am

    Surprise surprise, the CIA had a hand in the arrest of Nelson Mandela.

    http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/330153

    To that end, a CIA agent infiltrated the ANC and in 1962 informed South African security officials that Mandela, a wanted man on the run, would be leaving a dinner party in Durban dressed as a chauffeur. He was arrested at a roadblock and spent the next 10,000 days behind bars.

    • Colonial Viper 7.1
      7 August 2012 at 11:10 am

      The US does not support oppressive regimes like Apartheid South Africa. Really, it doesn’t.

  8. Rosie 8
    7 August 2012 at 10:47 am

    Drill it. Mine it. Allow it.

    If you’re into being the one to hand out the permits then man, has MoBIE got a job for you!

    http://www.trademe.co.nz/a.aspx?id=501079142

  9. Pete George 9
    7 August 2012 at 10:52 am

    David Shearer trying to defend the indefensible:

    “It is more of what I was just saying before umm ethan is that, you know I get you know trade unions or say salvation army or whatever they are standing up for rights of you know workers or rights of the poor or whatever, or whatever it is likely to be.

    Umm I don’t look to gain have had any sort of, I don’t look to have any material gain from that as a, as a as an MP–but there is what the the idea was is to try and capture the you know the various sort of business and corporate interests that might you know in a sense be trying to do sort of what you know they do offshore (not sure happens here?) is to buy buy politicans off”

    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/08/shearer_on_the_union_exemption.html

    Being a non-politician Shearer is hopeless trying to promote policy he doesn’t believe on, which is the obvious assumption from this embarrassment.

    He needs to start speaking on things he strongly believes in rather than trying to defend a crap position.

    • Colonial Viper 9.1
      7 August 2012 at 11:04 am

      Advocating for workers organisations is not “indefensible”.

      Using a Kiwiblog quote for David Shearer, that’s “indefensible” 🙄

    • bad12 9.2
      7 August 2012 at 11:13 am

      🙄 Take your excrement back to the sewer…

    • Socialist Paddy 9.3
      7 August 2012 at 11:14 am

      Shearer, and the Labour Party, need to stop taking advice from you right wing bastards. You only want the Labour Party to fail. Your advice is an attempt to sabotage, nothing more. 

      The only advice that I would offer to Key would be to take his head our of his arse and look around at the damage he is causing.

      And then resign.

      And then ask for forgiveness. 

      • TT 9.3.1
        7 August 2012 at 11:26 am

        … preferably with his head on the block.

      • chris73 9.3.2
        7 August 2012 at 11:32 am

        The right wing don’t need to sabotage Labour, Labour are doing a fine job of shooting themselves in the foot.

        Hey maybe Shearer could do another heartland tour because, you know, it worked so well the last couple of times.

        Some advice Labour should take though is remove T. Mallard

        • mike e 9.3.2.1
          7 August 2012 at 12:04 pm

          Why is it because he’s a sitting duck.
          C73 Mallard needs to be refined.
          Not sacked as your cyniscism would suggest.

          • chris73 9.3.2.1.1
            7 August 2012 at 12:12 pm

            Mallard is an a-grade twat. I mean you could point out his failings in the house, his piss-poor election strategies, his habit of getting side tracked but really hes just a twat and I’m pretty sure even the Labour party could find someone better.

        • lprent 9.3.2.2
          7 August 2012 at 12:30 pm

          Always nice to run across someone so utterly ignorant of political history.

          From about 1994 to 1999 (and later for that matter), Helen did a large number of ‘heartland tours’ turning up at everything from A&P shows to small town meetings. It went a *long* way to counter the ridiculous dumbarse propaganda from the rightwing fruitcakes that had been flooded out into the conservative areas about her, and her lack of ability at the time to come across well on TV. People coming into direct contact with left politicians are the most effective way to shift views and immunize against propaganda pushed through the rather simple media messages that appear to be all that our journalists can cope with.

          What I found rather heartening at the time was the number of people I knew in the rural and small town communities was how many changed their minds about her not after running across her directly, but after someone they knew had. What was also notable at the time was that the change in attitudes that I was seeing was simply a willingness to listen to Labour wasn’t really showing up in any of the polls when you broke it down by region. It did however show up in the elections because the MMP elections are pretty well won for Labour by two major factors – turnout in the cities and those all-important minority votes in the rural areas and small towns.

          David Shearer of course has a lot less of a uphill battle than Helen did.

          • chris73 9.3.2.2.1
            7 August 2012 at 12:37 pm

            You know what might work better then another heartland tour? The Labour party working together as a team and not getting side tracked by trivialities (usually of their own making)

            Of course articles like this won’t help either:

            http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/7429613/Pay-packets-on-the-rise

          • Bored 9.3.2.2.2
            7 August 2012 at 1:14 pm

            1prent, you are right about the effectiveness of the “heartland tours”. We used to do “cottage meetings” in the 80s….the theory is correct BUT our goods were flawed. We had an abundance of Rogernomes and yes men.

            Which brings me to the point, once bitten twice shy…the goods are looking decidedly shoddy and rather Rogerish.

            • lprent 9.3.2.2.2.1
              7 August 2012 at 1:32 pm

              Ah but that is a bit of a separate question. Personal/relayed contacts probably help anyone selling their dream – even the rodgernomes.

              But David Shearer comes across a hell of lot better in smallish groups than he does on the media. It will suit him whilst he winds up his media skills. I wouldn’t expect it to show particularly in polls because of the nature of what they measure. It also works better for opposition than it does for government members.

              • ad …
                7 August 2012 at 2:47 pm

                Even though I don’t really warm to Shearer, I look into the faces of all the rest including the Prime Minister, Russell Norman, Dr Sharples, Winston Peters etc to answer the question: Leader Of The Country material?, and I would just have no hestitation in ticking the Labour box again. No hesitation whatsoever.

                • Colonial Viper …
                  7 August 2012 at 6:11 pm

                  Out of 5 million awesome NZers we are left with those few dozen clawing away amongst each other in Parliament. Something is rotten in Denmark, ladies and gentlemen.

      • Vicky32 9.3.3
        7 August 2012 at 6:40 pm

        Shearer, and the Labour Party, need to stop taking advice from you right wing bastards. You only want the Labour Party to fail. Your advice is an attempt to sabotage, nothing more.

        Too right! 🙂

        • OneTrack 9.3.3.1
          7 August 2012 at 8:01 pm

          That’s so true . Ignore Chris73’s advice at 12:37. Just keep on stealing underpants.

          • felix 9.3.3.1.1
            7 August 2012 at 8:17 pm

            Nah it’s the National Party who’s strategy most fits the Underpants model:

            1. Sell our energy assets, at a loss, at the end of the cheap energy age
            2. ???
            3. Profit!

            If Labour could get as far as deciding to steal underpants they’d quickly become indefinitely tied up arguing about whether Waitakere Man prefers boxers or briefs, whether brassieres should also be targeted, what constitutes togs, what about fetish gear etc etc etc

            • QoT 9.3.3.1.1.1
              7 August 2012 at 8:19 pm

              Underpants are clearly identity politics, felix. Waitakere Myth goes commando.

              • felix …
                7 August 2012 at 8:31 pm

                Perhaps Labour would be better of stealing some thick woolen socks. For their cold feet. *ba dum tshh*

  10. Anne 10
    7 August 2012 at 2:26 pm

    But David Shearer comes across a hell of lot better in smallish groups than he does on the media.

    Oh yes, I can vouch for that. Indeed he comes across as an highly intelligent, thoughtful person who has a good vision for this country and knows how he wants to implement it. He does well face to face in large halls too. A few months ago I saw an initially luke-warm audience of some 200 practically eating out of his hand by the time he had finished.

    He has yet to learn the art of projecting a good image of himself on TV which requires a different set of skills. Here’s hoping his media training will help him to overcome this problem. Let’s not forget Russell Norman came across poorly when he first became the Greens co-leader, and look at him now – confident, assured and impressively articulate.

    • Pete George 10.1
      7 August 2012 at 2:48 pm

      Helen Clark also took a long time to master TV interviews. And I heard she was better in person too, like most people are. You get to judge them as they present themselves, not as someone else edits.

      But a problem with TV interviews is that you can’t control the subject, and Shearer is very unconvincing on some things. It’s a matter of whether he can keep his leadership long enough to become media credible.

      And according to Duncan Garner there is one thing on his side (or not likely to succeed on the other side):
      <a href="
      http://www.3news.co.nz/Opinion-Why-does-Labour-hate-David-Cunliffe-so-much/tabid/1135/articleID/264472/Default.aspx

      Why does Labour hate David Cunliffe so much?
      The majority of Labour politicians clearly dislike David Cunliffe. With a passion. And with a serious degree of what now looks like hatred and mistrust.

      That’s become so very clear to me this year – but even clearer since I released our 3 News poll on Sunday night.

      I suggested David Shearer might be rolled before the next election if he couldn’t get his numbers up. And while not many in Labour denied that – they all said Cunliffe won’t replace him. Over their dead bodies.

      [lprent: Abbreviated the quoted material.

      a. linked so people can go to the source.
      b. copyrighted.
      c. we aren’t here to cut’n’paste linked material into.

      Quote a relevant section if you want to get people to jump to the link. Don’t waste my time cleaning up our site. ]

      • KJT 10.1.1
        7 August 2012 at 3:38 pm

        Not being liked by the present Labour caucus is probably the best recommendation David Cunliffe could have.

        He is the only leader they have. Maybe that’s why the other wannabees don’t like him.

        He is not happy just to drift along until National lose an election.

        Their is no point in Labour winning an election to continue as NACT lite. That would be as much of a failure as losing. And an equal disaster for NZ.

        Personally I hope that Labour both grows a spine and repudiates following RWNJ memes, and wins in 2014, with the Greens to keep them honest.

        BTW. Helen Clark is great in person. Warm, humorous and intelligent.

        • AnnaLiviaPlurabella 10.1.1.1
          7 August 2012 at 4:28 pm

          This briefing of the press is no different from what the right wing did during the leadership battle. Same crap from the same mouths.

        • Blue 10.1.1.2
          7 August 2012 at 5:01 pm

          +1

          If I had my way, Trevor “ABC” Mallard would be out the door along with the rest of the dimwits who bag David Cunliffe to any journalist who’ll listen.

          Memo to the caucus fuckwits: Don’t bag your own colleagues out to the media.

          Then again, expecting the same losers who elected Shearer to have any political nous is asking too much, I suppose.

          I am so thoroughly disgusted with the Labour caucus right now. Pathetic, cowardly little guttersnipes. If you want DC out, fucking tell him. Don’t ring up Duncan Garner and have a giggle about how you’d like him to stay on vacation permanently.

          Passive-aggressive little wankers.

      • Socialist Paddy 10.1.2
        7 August 2012 at 3:42 pm

        Presuming that this is true and Garner is not interviewing his typewriter whoever leaked to him should be drummed out of the party. This sort of shyte is destabilizing and damaging to the party.

        • Pete George 10.1.2.1
          7 August 2012 at 4:04 pm

          Seems to be an attempt at exorcism.

          The rumour is that Cunliffe’s ‘assisted’ exit leaves Shearer in place, until the unions get their Little leadership with the help of a few % of the vote thanks to the review.

          • Socialist Paddy 10.1.2.1.1
            7 August 2012 at 4:21 pm

            What Rumour man?

            You are talking through your arse.

            How many times do you have to be told that you should not believe everything that you read about the Labour Party in Kiwibog. 

            • OneTrack 10.1.2.1.1.1
              7 August 2012 at 8:04 pm

              The source is 3news. Not that they are anywhere near reliable.

              • Colonial Viper …
                7 August 2012 at 8:13 pm

                3News is not a “source”. They simply reported a second hand opinion.

                In journalism a “source” is, for instance, ther PM’s press secretary. Or the Deputy Leader of the Labour Party. Or maybe the chair of Cunliffe’s LEC.

                3News is simply reporting on the opinion of one of their staff, a staff member who has not given any specifics on their source(s), who has not described any steps he took to double check those sources, etc.

                Basically its fuckall.

        • Anne 10.1.2.2
          7 August 2012 at 4:58 pm

          Actually Socialist Paddy, as far as I can tell the actual size of the ABC club in the Labour Caucus is nothing like as extensive as suggested. But there still appears to be a handful of stupid, vindictive members of caucus who continue to misrepresent the truth. I suspect in part it’s the tall poppy syndrome, and the rest is probably related to certain personal, political ambitions which would be unlikely to be met under a Cunliffe leadership.

          A very good example I was told about concerned a scumbag Labour politician (no, don’t know which one) who passed on to some sections of the media false voting figures after the caucus leadership vote late last year. He/she claimed Shearer received a higher vote than he actually did receive. In other words, the difference between the two contenders was much narrower than reported.I say this with no disrespect towards Shearer, because I’m sure he would have had no knowledge of it at the time.

          What it does tell me though is: there are a few Labour parliamentarians who are prepared to undermine their own Party for petty, spiteful gain. They should be weeded out and sent packing!

          • Colonial Viper 10.1.2.2.1
            7 August 2012 at 6:19 pm

            a scumbag Labour politician (no, don’t know which one) who passed on to some sections of the media false voting figures after the caucus leadership vote late last year. He/she claimed Shearer received a higher vote than he actually did receive. In other words, the difference between the two contenders was much narrower than reported.

            And I heard exactly the same, Anne, from a reasonably decent source. And yes we are talking a difference of just a very few votes.

            • Anne 10.1.2.2.1.1
              7 August 2012 at 7:31 pm

              What I find so appalling CV is: a Shearer/Cunliffe team would be about as brilliant as you could get. But there are a few selfish, self-centred Labour MPs determined to upset the apple cart.

              About 3 months ago, my Labour Electorate Committee resolved to send an email to Moira Coatesworth expressing our concern over this very matter. I might add, we were about 50/50 in out support for the two leadership contenders, so there’s no way our concern could be described as sour grapes. I understand Moira replied expressing her own dis-satisfaction… and I gather she passed our concerns on to the caucus.

              I’m sure we spoke for many electorates at that time, and we may not have been the only one to formally express it. Therefore I find it insulting and annoying that there are still a few MPs who haven’t got the message!

              Maybe they will get it now.

              • felix …
                7 August 2012 at 7:49 pm

                “a Shearer/Cunliffe team would be about as brilliant as you could get.”

                ‘kin A.

              • Colonial Viper …
                7 August 2012 at 8:30 pm

                Anne, great that your LEC took that action and emailed Moira.

                Even more emphatic and more direct action by party members will be required to communicate messages to the hierarchy in the future, IMO.

          • QoT 10.1.2.2.2
            7 August 2012 at 8:05 pm

            the actual size of the ABC club in the Labour Caucus is nothing like as extensive as suggested

            And the names most often associated with it (i.e. … Mallard, pretty much) are cosy little electorate MPs who’d be voted in if they were dead as long as they had a Labour rosette on them. So, really, why the fuck should they care if their petty bullshit sinks the party? They’re still going to get paid.

      • bad12 10.1.3
        7 August 2012 at 4:01 pm

        According to Duncan Garner’s paymasters who have everything to lose in a Cunliffe lead Labour at least making the attempt to take Labour back to it’s 1930’s roots and values is the exact sum total of what is contained in the article,

        A TV3 attempt at divide and rule simply on behalf of the status quo Garner’s paymasters see as a Shearer administration,

        What i do believe Labour as a Party has wasted is the telegenic nature of both Roberston and Cunliffe, both come across on a TV screen very well and both are more capable, (at the present time), of engaging in the politics of the 5 second sound bite which unfortunately is a needed skill in today’s political discourse, than what David Shearer is,

        It is pretty much a given that Labour if at all socialist,is the socialism of, for, and, by the middle class and thus cannot, (based upon current known policy), really be seen as much of an electoral option for those in the Have Not class of society,

        Those of us way to the left of Parliamentary Labour can console ourselves that there is now a strong Green Party who we would expect will in any future Government have the numbers and the will to impose on our behalf a modicum of social justice…

        • KJT 10.1.3.1
          7 August 2012 at 4:07 pm

          Socialism, for the middle class, would be fine if the overwhelming majority of New Zealanders were middle class, as they were in the 50’s.

          Instead we have socialism for corporates

    • Vicky32 10.2
      7 August 2012 at 6:43 pm

      Oh yes, I can vouch for that. Indeed he comes across as an highly intelligent, thoughtful person who has a good vision for this country and knows how he wants to implement it.

      Seconded! He’s brilliant… (he’s my local)

  11. BillODrees 11
    7 August 2012 at 3:53 pm

    Duncan Garner has succumbed to the charms of the ABC rump in the Caucus.  Maybe they don’t think the 67% rule will get through Confetence. So they have taken to white-anting Cunliffe through Garner. 

    This is timely.  Members can now see the real agenda of Labour’s right wing “organisational review”.  All members MUST actively reject the dilution of their power and the centralisatioin of  power into a management committee”. 

    The current leadership is at war with the membership.  

    • AnnaLiviaPlurabella 11.1
      7 August 2012 at 4:13 pm

      Duncan is inclined to have big emotional farts from time to time. He has had a couple of rough years and we should remember him in our prayers. Note to Duncan: twice a day the doctor said. Not twice a week.

  12. joe90 12
    7 August 2012 at 3:56 pm

    An interesting piece on the reliability of the coverage of the Syrian conflict.

    http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2012/08/02/breaking_the_arab_news?page=full

    edit: and a view from Jerusalem.

    http://jcpa.org/article/the-role-iranian-security-forces-syrian-bloodshed-2/

  13. captain hook 13
    7 August 2012 at 3:59 pm

    pete geroge took no time at all to master the inane, waffling, ruminating, misdirecting and link whoring of a psychophantic crawler.
    and more to the point he has never stood for office.
    if he pals up with dunnycan then he has really slipped back down the path of human evolution.

    • Draco T Bastard 13.1
      7 August 2012 at 5:03 pm

      and more to the point he has never stood for office.

      Actually, he has. He got a ~160 votes last election.

  14. William Joyce 14
    7 August 2012 at 4:29 pm

    Should we now consider the UK as a “Rogue State”?
    Barclays manipulating  the LIBOR
    HSBS laundering money for terrorists, Mexican drug cartels, and rogue states
    Standard Chartered colluding with Iran to break sanctions to the tune of $250bn
     
    And Blair saying that nothing would be solved by hanging bankers.
    He may be right but it’s a damn good start!
    “How can one make a revolution without firing squads?”
     
    He doesn’t want them hanged because we may come after him…
    – his government bent over backwards for “The City”
    – so much of the shit was traded on his watch
    – he’s an advisor (on the board?) of JP Morgan
    – he’s on the board/advisor to a Swiss bank
    – he’s involved in setting up a bank for the super rich
     
    Here’s a good list of people who should be first against the wall when the revolution comes.

    • Colonial Viper 14.1
      7 August 2012 at 6:32 pm

      You do know that its not an accident that the City of London has been the epicentre of all these financial scandals? The rules in the City are looser than just about everywhere else in the world. AIG, Lehman Bros, MF Global, Bernie Madoff – it was their UK operations out of London which caused the meltdown in each and every case.

      Max Keiser agrees with Blair that hanging 20 bankers is not the solution, Max reckons that 200 bankers would be a more reasonable number.

      Max Keiser: Hang’m high

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jd7oDRzPyMk

      Max Keiser: City of London centre of financial terrorism

      • Draco T Bastard 14.1.1
        7 August 2012 at 6:43 pm

        I don’t think 200 would be enough.

      • William Joyce 14.1.2
        7 August 2012 at 8:59 pm

        What a message that would send.
        They could not go in or out of their buildings without disturbing swarms of crows & flies feeding on the putrefying, foul smelling corpses of people they were working with only days before, and who are now twisting in the wind from the “The People’s Gibbet” in the street.
        Utopia………*sigh*

  15. Pete George 15
    7 August 2012 at 7:06 pm

    The social contract:

    We have a social contract in New Zealand. It works like this: if you need help because of something unexpected: an accident, a loss, or if misfortune befalls you, you will be supported.

    But once you’re back on your own feet, we expect you to pull your weight once again and contribute back to society.

    The Government’s role is to ensure that this transition happens – through up-skilling, education and a nudge behind those not meeting their side of the contract.

    That people could end up in hardship through no fault of their own, and in those cases we have a responsibility to provide a decent standard of living.

    But it’s never been about all take and no give.

    The other side of the contract is that everyone has a responsibility to contribute to their community. You didn’t get social security if you could work. If you couldn’t work, your community looked after you.

    I think these principles are accepted by most political parties. It’s a matter of tweaking the balance.

    • McFlock 15.1
      7 August 2012 at 7:35 pm

      🙄 at editing out anything resembling policy and then talking about the mom&apple pie filler like it’s a profound thought.   
           
      I do recommend people read the speech though – some of it pissed me off, some of it I agreed with, some of it was a sop to the audience demographic, so it had a little bit of something for everyone. 

      • Draco T Bastard 15.1.1
        7 August 2012 at 8:20 pm

        Some of it was good but most of it was the typical capitalist whine we can’t afford it WAAAAH.

        We propose giving the dole money to an employer to take on an apprentice.

        I got a better idea – why doesn’t the government just take them on as an apprentice themselves? You know, like we used to do when we had full employment.

    • OneTrack 15.2
      7 August 2012 at 8:14 pm

      Didn’t sound too bad BUT somebody else still whining about how it’s all Muldoon’s fault that we don’t have a super scheme like the Aussie’s. FFS it was 1975, 37 years ago. Muldoon didn’t put some secret law in place stopping any government since (2001-2008 maybe) putting something in place. Oh no, it’s Muldoon’s fault. And nothing happens……

      • Draco T Bastard 15.2.1
        7 August 2012 at 8:23 pm

        Well, the 4th Labour government should have but they got the neo-liberal bug that’s screwed up the economy ever since.

      • Colonial Viper 15.2.2
        7 August 2012 at 8:49 pm

        Hey OneTracktoNowhere

        Didn’t you learn in high school about the power of compounding interest? And not only were years of compounding growth (lol) lost by Muldoon’s actions, he took the easy action – disbanding something, which is always far easier than creating something from scratch.

        So the damage Muldoon did was very significant.

  16. Draco T Bastard 16
    7 August 2012 at 11:39 pm

    A good read:

    …there is a third myth – that there was not much wrong with the global economy in 2007. But the old model was financially flawed as it operated with high levels of debt, socially flawed in that the spoils of growth were captured by a small elite, and environmentally flawed in that all that mattered was ever-higher levels of growth. It is possible to move on, but only when it is recognised that the genie will not go back into the bottle.

    Which seems to be fairly accurate. The neo-liberal system of little regulation and lots of bank debt is the problem and until we accept that then there is little to nothing that can be done to eliminate the problem.

    • bad12 16.1
      8 August 2012 at 12:54 am

      From the same article, ”The German myth is that you can solve a problem of growth deficiency with belt tightening and export growth” unquote,

      Never a truer word spoken, to a certain extent we will have ‘internal stimulus’ that will go some way to absorb the problem of having imported a 15% drop in economic activity from having been too well plugged into the global economy, (ie: far to reliant upon exports of raw product from farm production), via the Christchurch re-build,

      My view tho is that more is needed and the best means of provision of this more is to use ‘printed monies’ to radically increase the number of actual households in this country by providing State Housing at the fixed 25% of income to a far greater number of families, (my rough guess at the need of the expansion, (from 69,000 to 100,000 over a four year period and from 100,000 to 120,000 over the following 5 years),

      Even the likes of Bill English is now openly saying that any ‘growth recovery’, ie: getting New Zealand back to the same amount of economic activity we had prior to the current stage of capitalism’s ultimate collapse will be at least ten years away, not only exposing the National Party lie of surplus by 2015 but also failing to provide any path forward other than the borrowing of 300 million dollars a week until god knows when???,

      I view this as does the article you linked to, if any stability or platform for economic activity to increase is to be found it will take multi-decades for any ‘catch-up to occur,

      Thus export receipts will continue to be weak as prices continue the downward trend and the only logical expansion in activity must come from increasing the actual number of functioning households in New Zealand where low cost rental equates to lower wage demand and increased local economic activity from monies paid as rent not being a transfer of wealth from one class to another in society…

      • Colonial Viper 16.1.1
        8 August 2012 at 1:22 am

        but these functioning households cannot be allowed to start buying shitloads of foreign goods, particularly via foreign sourced debt.

        We need to be more self sufficient in value added products (which initself will create more jobs).