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Open mike 07/10/2014

Written By: - Date published: 6:35 am, October 7th, 2014 - 224 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

openmikeOpen mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

224 comments on “Open mike 07/10/2014 ”

  1. Ron 2

    Is Labour UK in for a leadership change. Rumours this morning are suggesting that Alan Johnson could be the one to replace Miliband. Looking at Johnson’s credentials would seem to indicate that he would be far better choice and at least he has the right background for a Labour Leader. Interesting times with a year to go to election.

    • Te Reo Putake 2.1

      Er, why would Labour change leader when they are set to win the next election outright*, even under the fairly hopeless Miliband? Johnson has been out in the wilderness for a couple of years and has expressly said he doesn’t want to return to the front benches in any capacity. Sounds like a right wing beat up to me.

      *the polls have been less enthusiastic since the party conferences, but still have Labour within striking distance of outright victory. On the numbers the Tories would need to keep the coalition going and with the Lib Dem’s Vince Cable calling them liars overnight, that may not be a runner:

      http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/oct/06/vince-cable-tory-budget-taxes-lie

      • Ron 2.1.1

        Mmmm well maybe this would help
        Latest YouGov: 2pt Conservative lead (Con 36%, Lab 34%, LD 7%, Ukip 13%). Implies that Labour would be 13 seats short of a majority, with 313 seats to the Tories’ 299. Implied Lib Dem seats: 11

        Er, why would Labour change leader when they are set to win the next election outright*, even under the fairly hopeless Miliband? Johnson has been out in the wilderness for a couple of years and has expressly said he doesn’t want to return to the front benches in any capacity. Sounds like a right wing beat up to me.

    • lurgee 2.2

      Johnson is a rightwing Blairite clown. He defended the use of torture at Guantanamo, sacked David Nutt for daring to tell the truth about drugs and he voted for the Iraq War. Just because he used to be a postman, don’t get all starry eyed about him.

  2. Richard 3

    Prepare for DP then Ron. The Conservatives will be building their attack blogs now and dishing dirt, they saw how it worked. Keys led the way for them. Shown them how to pull it off.

    Expect leaks and bad press on anything Labour has done in the past.

    I’ll get mum to keep me posted. I’m sure the election year in the UK will be as weird as this one was here.

  3. Richard 4

    Well the craps starting, Key law changes this morning. Start with the mild ones, it’ll get worse.

    He’s sorted distancing himself from any further backlash about his ministry by appointing a future scapegoat. Poor Findlay. Poor , Poor Findlayson.

    Oh new saying, he’s using “in the end” now not “At the end of the day” he’s been learning.

    I wonder how long it will be before JC is sneaked back into Cabinet like Smith was. 3 months? 6. I see an ipredict opportunity.

    • Not a PS Staffer 4.1

      Key holds all the cards. Promoting Paula Benefit was his way of taking focus off Collins as a potential leader.
      Key has learned that Collins is an incurably nasty piece of work and that she is just too toxic to have near the levers of government. Key has some standards.

      • Bill 4.1.1

        Is it just me who thinks Bennett is in the position she’s in, precisely because she knows ‘not a lot’, but will be a good, keen lieutenant or ‘go to’ person for those passing instructions to the minister of finance?

        All those months spent in the US absorbing ‘correct thinking’…anyone remember the US institute she attended?

        • left for dead 4.1.1.1

          Well It’s not for her keen intellect,but oh so willing.probably a fool (fall)girl.
          edit me baby Rawshark,wheres my mummy an daddy

        • Tracey aka Rawshark 4.1.1.2

          I think she thinks she knows a lot. She has cut a swathe through winz with her smiley outsterior and now is going to do the same to state housing.

          I think she is dangerous…

          Remember when cornered on cabinet club? She was a possum briefly as though she couldnt remember if it were a secret or not? Then she went to the taught default position of the Nats. She lied.

          Be under no illusion, these folks are being extensively trained… Clones all…

          http://www.3news.co.nz/politics/key-nothing-wrong-with-cabinet-club-donations-2014050717

          • Bill 4.1.1.2.1

            I think she knows a lot.

            Yea, I agree with you. No doubt at all that she’s a cunning wee shite. And dangerous. I was focusing on her (lack of) ability to think critically rather than on her (very honed) ‘street smarts’. A perfect lieutenant.

            • Tracey aka Rawshark 4.1.1.2.1.1

              Like key she will be well trained… She doesnt need to “know” anything, just how to smile, make a joke and lie. She is well on the way to heading the nats

          • Richard AKA RAWSHARK 4.1.1.2.2

            I like your new nick name.

            last night i was thinking of Spartacus with Kirk Douglas and thought to myself why doesn’t everyone, if we could persuade them go to the police and say we are Rawshark. Oh the gears would grind to a halt then wouldn’t they.

            I’m Rawshark.

        • Murray Olsen 4.1.1.3

          You could probably google all the institutes that accept people with a GPA<0.8 and get a fair idea. She's been promoted because she is hopelessly in love with Key, devoted to the cult of Key, and too stupid to do anything except mouth slogans.

  4. karol 5

    Bwhahahahahaha. Has this guy had a logic by-pass?

    In a blog post last night, Slater said Hager was the recipient of stolen information and it would be difficult for him to claim journalistic endeavours.

    “Journalists call people they write stories about. Journalists give people a right of reply. Journalists tell the whole story, not massaged narratives that suit their politics.

    “If my emails were in the public interest to publish then his sources are public interest too. It must cut both ways.”

    • Draco T Bastard 5.1

      Either a logic bypass or using what sounds like logic in a way designed to confuse. Personally, I figure it’s the latter.

    • Tracey aka Rawshark 5.2

      This is what happens when people attribute non legal definitions to public interest.

      Slater pretends he writes things when he is actually being paid to post someone elses words as his as a deceit on his readers…

  5. Scott Chris 6

    So Maggie Barry’s only qualifications for the position of Conservation Minister is a one year diploma in horticulture from Lincoln and a gardening show. A very poor appointment imo. Apart from which, anyone who ever heard her ramblings on radio would know she isn’t particularly blessed in the brains department.

    • karol 6.1

      I saw her at an election debate on public broadcasting a month or so ago. She not only is very light weight intellectually, but she seems to have an an inflated senses of her own abilities, and a bit of a bullying demeanour.

      Fits right in with the likes of Collins, Brownlee, Paula Bennett, etc…. although at least one of these 3 demonstrates more bran power than Barry.

      • phillip ure 6.1.1

        i went rummaging in my mags barry archives..

        ..and amongst other stuff..

        ..found these:

        “..fake-tweets..an occaisonal series…

        maggie barry..hashtag barrysnob..

        i like going to third world countries to look at poor people…of course i am an expert on poverty…

        maggie barry @ hashtag barrysnob..

        ..‘must get speaker to change house rules so that i am the only one allowed to call others ‘petal..’..mags..

      • Scott Chris 6.1.2

        Fits right in with the likes of Collins, Brownlee, Paula Bennett, etc…. although at least one of these 3 demonstrates more bran power than Barry.

        I’m of the opinion that Bennett and Brownlee are relatively intelligent. They’re both dicks, but I think they’re smart.

        • Murray Rawshark 6.1.2.1

          Relatively is a word which requires comparison to something. Relative to two short planks, Brownlee and Bennett may be intelligent. Relative to the kea, our lovely problem solving mountain parrot, they are not. They cause problems. They spout slogans, and when that doesn’t work, they get nasty. I find it interesting that both of them have been reported as using violence against members of the public.

      • Tracey aka Rawshark 6.1.3

        Dont get eon scarrow started on ms barry… According to him she was a foul mouthed woman off camera who treated the crew like slaves… Cue camera… Smile.

    • Not a PS Staffer 6.2

      I don’t expect ministers to have university qualifications in the brief they manage. The department that they oversee is there to provide expert advice and competent management.
      I do expect them to have demonstrated that they have a vision for the future and the skills to turn that vision into a reality.

      There are upsides and downsides to a weak minister. On one hand the senior team at the department can get on with their own vision without the encumbrance of an unsympathetic minister. On the other hand the Treasury can kill a department plans if the minister is not strong enough to fight at the cabinet table.

      Are there any newly appointed MEN in Key’s team that you would like to slag for being under qualified?

      • Clemgeopin 6.2.1

        Are there any newly appointed men in Key’s team that you wold like to slag for being under qualified?

        Key. Seriously.

        And English, Parata, Bridges, Tolley.

        • Colonial Rawshark 6.2.1.1

          These people are perfectly qualified for what they intend to do, and the level that they intend to perform at.

          • Tracey aka Rawshark 6.2.1.1.1

            Touche

          • Clemgeopin 6.2.1.1.2

            Ok, you are right from that POV.
            This government will slowly destroy the caring, decent and fair NZ that we know and will work to enhance the wealthy and the corporates, the true beneficiaries of our nation that suck and siphon money from everywhere and everyone, increasing inequality and misery….And then they have the audacity to tell the poor, the less wealthy and the ordinary people what is wrong with us!

      • Scott Chris 6.2.2

        Are there any newly appointed MEN in Key’s team that you would like to slag for being under qualified?

        None that I’ve listened to extensively enough to form an opinion as to their apparent intelligence. A bias I do have though is that conservation is important to me and I’d rather see a person with a bare minimum of a science degree be appointed to this position over one who has, in recent times merely been responsible for asking patsy questions in parliament.

      • Tracey aka Rawshark 6.2.3

        Bill english pretends to be a farmer but he is a university qualified career bureaucrat, cossetted his working life in the public service… No calls from the right for him to have some experience in the real world…

      • karol 6.2.4

        University qualifications are not necessarily an indication of brain power, and some with no formal qualifications are very smart.

        Barry presents as an intellectual light weight.

        Brownle never seemed to me to be that smart – Julie Ann Genter has run rings around him on many occasions. It may be an indication of mental laziness on Brownlee’s part – he may have untapped latent brain power.

        NEW men in the cabinet is a hard ask – Key seems to have focused on some window dressing by promoting a few women.

        • Tracey aka Rawshark 6.2.4.1

          Perhaps women have proven easier to train than the men of national?

        • partially-cooked swordfish 6.2.4.2

          The Gender-Gap in voting persists. While Men are now fairly-strongly (though by no means overwhelmingly) Right-leaning, Women remain pretty evenly-divided between Left and Right / Opposition and Government, albeit perhaps slightly favouring the Right by the smallest of margins this Election.

          Presumably this Cabinet reshuffle aims, in part, to make further in-roads into the female demographic (or to further consolidate / reinforce those women who have already swung Right since 2005).

          • left for deadshark 6.2.4.2.1

            Mmm,you got me thinking.I was going to ask CV aka Colonial rawshark,three pieces an a coke,but swordfish.Is it partially cooked with mustard seed and lime juice.All smilies,must have a bit of humour.

        • Scott Chris 6.2.4.3

          University qualifications are not necessarily an indication of brain power, and some with no formal qualifications are very smart.

          I agree but the application of critical thinking and vigorously applying scientific method is unusual without sufficient training.

          • Richard AKA RAWSHARK 6.2.4.3.1

            Never been to Uni didn’t finish high school, had a psychologist prep me for Chemo and help me through depression. She tested me and said I had an IQ of 160+

            I’ve met Uni qualified IT people who were completely crap.

            For example we had one guy come in and started sticking in disks and running diagnostics. But we all new the screen was freezing but the caps locks was functioning on the keyboard and that’s usually indicates the graphics card.

            Some intelligent people just don’t get their kicks from a piece of paper that says they know about something.

      • Richard AKA RAWSHARK 6.2.5

        From the top to the bottom staffer. The whole lot of them wouldn’t light up a bulb if they all put a concerted effort in.

    • Murray Olsen 6.3

      You should hear Maggie when she’s sober.

  6. Saarbo 7

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/rural/256305/labour-upset-govt-funding-fed-farmers

    The Federated Farmers took every opportunity to attack Labour’s policies before the election, from memory they may have also attacked Labour’s monetary policy which could have lowered the kiwi $ leading to better returns. Well it turns out that they were receiving funding from the Nats, at the same time as vocally attacking their opponents…more dodgy stuff from the Nats.

    • Clemgeopin 7.1

      What a sad tragedy that voters…47% of them…voted this bad government back in! Unbelievable stuff!

      • Colonial Viper 7.1.1

        Labour didn’t have it together, the Greens were lacklustre in their campaign.

        The Left fractured into little itty bitty parties who did not want to seem to work together and 1.2M or so NZers decided to stay at home (for 2 weeks) instead of voting.

        Funding Fed Farmers makes no difference as they were never going to support anyone else than National. If Labour were in Govt though, Labour would never support its friends in a similar way.

        • BM 7.1.1.1

          I find the contradiction of the left very amusing.

          It’s supposed to be all about equality and sharing, yet everyone thinks they’re the chosen one and can’t work with anyone else.

          Hilarious.

          • Clemgeopin 7.1.1.1.1

            What nonsense are you talking? Labour said they would be happy to be in coalition with the Greens and NZF. They ruled out cabinet positions for IMP but did not rule out accepting their support.

            The only parties Labour would not deal with at all would be the RW parties, National, ACT and the CONS.

          • Draco T Bastard 7.1.1.1.2

            And the rwnjs go on about being all different and individual and the evils of collectivism but are the biggest authoritarian collectivists around.

          • Not a PS Staffer 7.1.1.1.3

            help. How do I do the rolling eyes things ?

        • Ad 7.1.1.2

          Hey CV, do a post on this:

          A counterfactual in which Labour-Greens are installed and legitimately support progressive/greenie/social/creative ngo’s.

          Be an interesting ecosystem to work in.

          • Colonial Rawshark 7.1.1.2.1

            That would be a very interesting ecosystem indeed, and would engage a lot of creativity and energy at the local and regional level as well. It would liven up the left at the grassroots and rebuild community involvement in left leaning activities.

            BUT both the Greens and Labour have strong tendencies towards the centralisation of authority and power to Wellington. And the very tight control of budgets and funding year to year including requiring any bodies who are funded to expend a massive amount of time and energy jumping over hoops to get funding in the first place, and keeping that funding going forward.

            My conclusion is that neither the Greens nor Labour are really culturally prepared to support and promote an NGO ecosystem as you suggest, despite its many merits.

    • miravox 7.2

      Fed Farmers is primarily an advocacy group isn’t it?

      Aren’t charities that are advocacy organisations having their funding cut? I’m confused…

      • Colonial Viper 7.2.1

        Tories are smart enough to feed their friends and starve their enemies. The Left aren’t clever or capable enough to do that any more.

        • miravox 7.2.1.1

          Feeding friends like this is not smart. it’s straight out arrogance imo.

          Good on Damien O’Connor and Labour calling National out on this. I guess it won’t make much difference given the state of NZ’s civic engagement but.

          • Colonial Viper 7.2.1.1.1

            The modern Left doesn’t know how to feed, support and grow its institutional friends any more. That’s why it has so few, and the Right have so many.

        • greywarshark 7.2.1.2

          ‘@ Colonial Viper 7 2 1The
          ‘The Left aren’t clever or capable enough’ – more c’s they aren’t – committed, to the country. But if the combined cronyism can cease, then a creation of the old Labour pragmatism, spirit and determination will wipe the bad c’s away. Less theories, ideologies and feelings, more solid service to the people and good outcomes.
          edited

  7. Te Reo Putake 8

    Mmmmm, cherry pie time!

  8. fambo 9

    So our national (party) rugby team lost to South Africa on the weekend. Perhaps this was due to their bad karma. I’ve always been a supporter of the All Blacks but I see them as politically compromised after the Rugby News cover with John Key dressed as an All Black just before the election and illegal tweets urging people to vote National on election day by Israel Dagg and Jonah Lomu.

    • Chooky 9.1

      re rugby player tweets and Key on the rugby front page

      …lets face it the Rights PR campaign was / is both ruthless and superb

      …the Left (coalition..ha ha) was disorganised and unprofessional…and left for dead

      …that Election could and should have been won by a Left coalition

      • Tiger Mountain 9.1.1

        Yep, Left tactical and strategic UNITY would have done it easily.

        Now speaking of unity where are Nicky Hager’s scribe brothers and sisters?
        Dear Leader is intimidating those that exercise free speech.
        If the weasel so called journos at the Herald and Stuff can’t even support him in some way publicly it is past time to abandon all hope for them.

        • The Lone Haranguer 9.1.1.1

          I think they are out there working their phones trying to get the necessary info together……

          For the big scoop where they name Rawshark

    • Weepus beard 9.2

      I’ve been an All Black fan for 40 years. Now that they have allowed themselves to be politically high jacked and have nailed their colours to the mast I hope they lose every match from here to eternity.

      • Tiger Mountain 9.2.1

        Luckily I never have been a rugby fan whilst not unaware of rugby, it is not sport unless it involves an engine for me. Had a ’65 Springbok tour sticker on my schoolbag because they were handed out at school in those days.

        ’81 Tour vet, from outside the grounds of course. So I rather enjoy it when the ABs lose. In 1999 up North you would think the whole Royal Family had been dispatched or something.

        After Key’s Rugby News cover I felt a line had been crossed though. Not just for the anti rugby minority like me but felt maybe some others would get what he had done.

    • karol 9.3

      I stopped watching ABs matches since the Rugby News-John Key cover.

      Got plenty of other things to do with my time. Rugby, and most televised sport has been captured by corporate interests in recent decades. Who needs it?

      • Clemgeopin 9.3.1

        I too have lost some respect for the AB, just as I have for the NATS.

        How stupid of the ABs to endorse Key and NATS when half the country is against this government? The team should be non partisan and be for the entire country. One would think that the ABs would not be so very thick as not to understand that fact!

        • fambo 9.3.1.1

          I think a common problem for New Zealanders is that they find it hard to put themselves in the position of others. I think this is in part because New Zealanders have not had to suffer the hardships that many others have. For example, does Israel Dagg have even the slightest notion what it is like to have a squad of policemen ransack his house for ten hours.This is what the leader and government he wanted us to vote for does to its enemies. Does Dagg lack all abilities for empathy and intellectual analysis. Is he (and Jonah) a man or just a boy in a man’s body.

          • partially-cooked swordfish 9.3.1.1.1

            Dagg’s father said they’d named him after the State of Israel because of its apparent “staunchness” against aggressive enemies. So, we’re not necessarily dealing here with the brightest or most enlightened geezers in the world.

            • Rodel 9.3.1.1.1.1

              And Jonah, also a bright lombard was named so because..? something about whales wasn’t it.

    • Clemgeopin 10.1

      Not sure of the consequences of his proposals.

      This is my comment on that article there:

      ‘It is hard to know the validity of your ideas as you have not given any dollar figures be it for the UBI or the tax takes. Isn’t it a little strange/silly/unfair to give the UBI to say, a millionaire? Will the amount raised based on the taxes you propose be enough to provide the services to the people and the country? Would be interesting to read an article from you that includes some actual fiscal details and any possible good or bad consequences of the ideas proposed.’

    • Draco T Bastard 10.2

      Going to have to read that but a quick skim indicates that he’s wrong:

      1. It wasn’t the market that made us rich but a hell of a lot of protection against the market and NZers building a better NZ using our own skills and resources
      2. High taxation on the rich isn’t just there to raise money but to also encourage people not to reach for to high an income (We cannot afford the rich)

      • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 10.2.1

        High taxation is there to encourage us to be poor, you reckon?

      • Colonial Rawshark 10.2.2

        Your last point is critical – it is there to direct peoples motivations to sources of reward other than just making ever bigger $$$. Like contribution to society, development of community standing and respect, philanthropic and volunteer endeavours.

        We’ve discussed this before – but I am quite fine with a 79% income tax rate set at a threshold of 10x the median full time wage (~$44K pa).

        • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 10.2.2.1

          Course your fine with it.

          You want everyone else to pay for you. Bit self-important.

          • Draco T Bastard 10.2.2.1.1

            There’s a real easy way to avoid a high tax rate – don’t expect or demand too much income.

            What we’ve seen over the last thirty years of neo-liberalism is that the rich keep taking more and more while saying that we can’t afford small increases to the poor. This has resulted in a few people using up vast amount of resources for little or no gain to the country.

            We cannot afford the rich.

            It is not the rich that pay for anything – it is always the poor and middle. And that includes paying for the rich to be rich.

  9. The Lone Haranguer 11

    Serious question guys:

    Is there a “class war” underway here in NZ?

    After reading the “On Naval gazing” comments I figured that a lot of folk around here think that there is. I read that in a UK context originally & wondered if it actually translates to NZ.

    On here the Nats get called Torys, and theres talk of the working class, but it seems to me that there arent a vast collection of folk out there in the real world who identify with those terms.

    Down here in Chch, the tradies are doing well and not just in the building trades. The place is infested with new double cab utes that, at weekends have trail bikes etc on the back heading for some fossil fueled fun somewhere. The automotive repair workshops are busy fixing stuff, the Warehouse car park is chokka at the weekend, the supermarkets are full of people buying food (and liquor) and the bars are busy in the evenings.

    So Im not seeing the “working people” struggling too much at the moment. To me, it seems that neither Labour nor the Greens had a message worthy of their attention.

    I recognise that the non working are struggling big time but lets be honest, they struggled during the last Labour lead government too, so Im not seeing this as a “working class war”

    • Rosie 11.1

      LH, ask yourself what you aren’t seeing. Those who are struggling may be invisible to you. You aren’t seeing call centre workers who work anti social hours, you aren’t seeing privately contracted care givers to the elderly who work the minimum wage and who do a really tough job, you aren’t seeing cleaners, ditto minimum wage who also work anti social hours. There’s another working world that missed out on the rebuilding boom. They’re not in the bars at night because they’re working and couldn’t afford it if they wanted to to.

      As for the turnover the warehouse is doing. Ask yourself why people are buying cheap imported shit that is going to break the minute they get it home and why stores that sell good quality well made NZ items are closing down.

      Life isn’t the same as it was up until 2008. our living costs have increased beyond out means. (have a look at Stephanie Rodgers post on what’s behind the figures) Life is good for some but not everyone.

      • The Lone Haranguer 11.1.1

        Fair comment Rosie. But that just makes the “working poor” group way smaller, and therefore electorally less valuable to Labour.

        In the past Labour represented the workers, and a bunch of them (certainly down here) are doing okay and dont see that they need the Labour party to work for their interests.

        Labour message (whatever it actually is) doesnt seem to be aspirational for voters.

        • Rosie 11.1.1.1

          The working poor are a big chunk of our working population. I haven’t got time to dig out the figures – hopefully someone has this info at their fingertips and can provide or you can google it!

          I agree Labour did once solidly represent workers, and remember the Labour party was formed on the back of times of great social political unrest, eg, the 1913 Great Strike. Then they started turning away from the workers and towards the bosses in the neo liberal revolution of the 80’s, paved the way for the ECA brought in by National in 1990 and Labour never went quite far enough when they repealed it and replaced it with the ERA in 2000.

          BUT! They have come back to the workers. You may remember their pre election policy of increasing the minimum wage to $16.25 by April 2015, removing the 90 day act from the ERA and a plan to review the Act. They have been strongly opposed Nat’s Employment Relations Amendment Act, which will no doubt be rushed through before Xmas. Wait till you see the fall out from that. Workers won’t know what has hit them.

          So anyone on the minimum wage and/or in precarious work who didn’t vote for Labour has unfortunately shot themselves in the foot. Hopefully the review that Labour are undertaking will pinpoint how and why they couldn’t reach this group of voters. IMO, it’s a tragedy these policies won’t seen within the next 3 years.

          and lol, that word “aspirational”, it’s a Crosby Textor Tory word, think Paula Bennett. and her idealogical fantasies. Fairness is a more appropriate word.

          • The Lone Haranguer 11.1.1.1.1

            Thanks Rosie for the reply. Im learning stuff.

            Im surprised that Labour didnt push those policies harder during the electioneering period tho, as they would dovetail nicely with a cry out “for a fairer society”.

            Unfortunately, Labour chose the cryout of “Vote Positive”

            • Bill 11.1.1.1.1.1

              It looked to me as though Cunliffe successfully hobbled himself by being ‘nice’ and seeking to ‘please everyone’.

              Somebody who’s standing for leader has to state they are seeking a mandate to rid the party of careerists and dead wood. Then they have to do it.

              Question. Why weren’t the ‘old guard’ thrown so far down the list pre-election that communication would have been by way of carrier pigeons following a torch beam into the darkness?

              • Colonial Viper

                All good points, and the bottom line is that the level of backbone, nerve and internal Labour Party political sway needed to carry out what you say, simply did not exist.

              • wekarawshark

                “Question. Why weren’t the ‘old guard’ thrown so far down the list pre-election that communication would have been by way of carrier pigeons following a torch beam into the darkness?”

                Question. What mechanisms exist within Labour to do that, and who has the power to carry it out?

                • Bill

                  I don’t know who, or what, decides list placings, what the process is, or what/if oversight exists. That was kind of why I asked the question.

                  Maybe somebody can enlighten?

                  • wekarawshark

                    I’ve been asking these kinds of questions for some time. They’re rarely answered. You’re a Labour member, yeah? Can you phone your local LEC and find out?

                  • Colonial Rawshark

                    I don’t know who, or what, decides list placings, what the process is, or what/if oversight exists. That was kind of why I asked the question.

                    the current system, very much simplified, goes something like this:

                    1) Each Labour Party region submits a ranked “regional list” to the powerful central list Moderating Committee.

                    2) This regional list ranking is determined earlier on via “Regional List Conferences” where list candidates stand and speak to present their personal case, and delegates from the various branches and LECs in the region vote on their ranking. (in Region 6 – all electorates Waitaki southwards, including – it is usual to only have 5 or 6 list candidates to be ranked on the regional list. In Region 1, there are usually dozens…)

                    3) The central Moderating Committee has tonnes of people on it. From the various Labour Party sectors, affiliates, NZ Council reps and more.

                    4) The ‘regional list rankings’ from each of the regions are the single most significant input into the Moderating Committee’s production of the Labour Party list ranking. As you can imagine however, a lot of heated discussion and horse trading goes on to produce the final party list.

                    5) It has become customary, since Helen Clark days, to rank sitting MPs higher up the list to help ensure that they always get back in.

                    In future steps to democratise the party’s constitution, ensure ongoing broad renewal, and give ordinary members more power over caucus, much of this is going to have to change.

            • Rosie 11.1.1.1.1.2

              Hi LH. I think “A fairer society” was The Greens catch cry. There were many good policies that got drowned in the noise of the daily anti Cunliffe tirade from the media, the Judith Collins saga and the Dirty Politics saga.

              Again, hopefully the Labour party review of what went wrong will cast more light on why these essential policies didn’t reach the ears who needed to hear about them most.

              • Colonial Rawshark

                I don’t think the Labour Party review will be scoped to include analysing where and why the Greens struggled.

          • Tracey aka Rawshark 11.1.1.1.2

            I have been thinking for a couple of weeks that LP salvation might be in seeing its union connections as a strength to be built on rather than an embarassing uncle to “put up with”.

            If union membership across NZ increased by 10% in the next three years what, if any, impact on the next election? I wonder how many LP MPs are prepared to work on the ground in this way over the next three years?

        • Kiwiri - Raided of the Last Shark 11.1.1.2

          doesnt seem to be aspirational for voters.

          ‘Tis time to challenge this vague, overused word “aspirational” that is really bullshit covered in feel-good glitter.

    • karol 11.2

      Traditionally the organised working class were in industrial based unions – factories etc. that were part of the manufacturing sector. A lot of them were based in the industrial north of England and in Scotland. That is where the strongest working class movement and politics remain.

      NZ has never been highly industrialised. The low income struggling classes, including the precariat, are in other sorts of jobs (if/when they have jobs), as Rosie outlines. People in such precarious circumstances and jobs are not as easy to organise.

      • Tracey aka Rawshark 11.2.1

        Do you think it is possible for the LP to strengthen its ties with unions, to work, on the ground, for the next few years educating workplaces, workforces on membership benefits as a way to connect back with non voters and those swayed by the rightist propaganda? Is it feasible? I am not talking about media engagement but mp and union engagement. ?. Get union membership up by 10% in the next three years:-)

    • Bill 11.3

      To be fair to…me 😉 I don’t tend to use the term ‘Tory’ in relation to The National Party, preferring to reserve it for the British Conservative Party.

      As for class war – well, it’s always going on. Whether workers are engaged or not is another question, and the visibility of it waxes and wanes through time.

      And to pick up on something Karol mentioned.

      What the hell is going on when Labour loses support in its traditional heartlands where it’s now mocked as the ‘Red Tories’, while it simultaneously struggles to win votes against a right wing – heh – Conservative government in England and Wales?

      I just thought the scenario could be instructive or illustrative in relation to any future direction the NZ Labour Party chooses to take. It’s the closest I can see to something resembling a laboratory experiment for a social situation.

      My take on the NZ Labour Party, in relation to the available info for the British Labour Party in Scotland, and in England and Wales, is that unless it promotes genuinely left wing social democratic policies (as the SNP in Scotland does), then it’s toast.

      And visible class war isn’t necessary for that to be true.

      • The Lone Haranguer 11.3.1

        Thanks Bill, I really wasnt picking on your comments per se regarding the “Torys”. There are many on here who use that term regularly.

        So how do you rally folk to an invisible class war? Surely Labour need to campaign on the back of visible stuff or else it wont capture the minds and hearts of voters?

        • Bill 11.3.1.1

          Parliamentary parties rarely, if ever, adequately engage in class war – in a Social Democracy, they seek to contain it.

          The SNP didn’t, as far as I know, stoke the fires of class discontent. All they did was propose acceptable social democratic policies that resonated with peoples’ sense of fairness or decency. And they did that successfully and in spite of all the clap trap coming from the British Labour Party, the Conservatives, the City of London and who-ever else who routinely and predictably squeal “TINA!” (there is no alternative)

          edit I believe the NZ Labour Party was on the right track with a whole host of its policies. Unfortunately it undid all the potential it was building with the retirement age and compulsory savings nonsense.

  10. Rosie 12

    Comrades. Time to say ta ta for awhile. Time to get back into a healthy head space and recover from the shock and distress of 20th September. No doubt there’s going to be work to be done on the ground again over the next 3 years and that will require some effort. You need good stores of energy for community based activity.

    Theres never a dull moment these days. Right now we’ve got Nicky Hager’s house being raided, new Ministers and The President Of NZ, Barack Obama directing from afar the administration of our SIS and GCSB and our involvement in war. Just considering this takes energy that I don’t have right now, and it’s never ending. What will happen next week!?

    There’s so many fine authors and posters here that I’ll continue to read and may pop in from time to to time and for weekend social too. I just thought it would be rude to bugger off without saying goodbye. Big ups to all who make this blog such vital place to visit for political analysis and for the occasional bit of entertainment from posters.

    Kia Ora.

    • Tiger Mountain 12.1

      All the best Rosie till next time.

      • wekarawshark 12.1.1

        Yes, all the best Rosie. Thanks so much for all your hard work. Also for your emotional intelligence and considered comments here in ts. We will be the worse off without you, but I wholeheartedly support you to find a healthy headspace and some recovery time.

      • Rosie 12.1.2

        Ta TM

    • see ya rosie..

      ..once this leadership race is decided..i also intend to largely bow out from here..

      ..i want to focus on developing aspects of whoar ..vid-blogging etc..

      ..and tho’ this is a great venue for a battlefield of ideas..

      ..arguing here soaks up a lot of time/energy..

      ..and there isn’t much that can be done in practical terms ’till 2017..

      ..depressing..but true..

      • Rosie 12.2.1

        Good luck with your development endeavours phillip. You are one of the ones who has been most entertaining. I do enjoy your writing style.

    • vto 12.3

      Good for your Rosie. I am in much the same boat and have a sense of gloom about our political and social discourse. I am a bit worn by it and depressed at the thought of more of our environment being eaten, no solutions for those living in cars, low wage earners continuing to subsidise business, all out spying, a lying PM who is about to send us to war and expose us to threats, it goes on …

      Having recently spent some time in other NZ locales I see plenty of people with their blinkers on, unable to see past their noses (or rather, their nose-ring by which they are guided), with scant thought given to political realities.

      Things will get well worse yet before they get better.

      I check the site out from time to time but have run out of energy for posting and blog battles. Priorities have been re-arranged. Only singular snipes from afar for now … see ya

      • Rosie 12.3.1

        The blinkers thing is one of the most disturbing aspects of our society in this time, imo. And I agree, things will get worse before they get better.

        Always respected your take on our farming sector, and our marginalised groups, great insight.

        Over n out.

      • greywarshark 12.3.2

        @ vto and Rosie
        Don’t go for long periods. Come in and say hello on the Weekend thing on Friday.
        Drop off a recipe, the latest book we should read, a link to a good lecture. You both are stalwarts and those are needed. We need an injection of good positive thought and pointers to new stuff, reminders of old. So drop in won’t you there on Friday, even if you want to distance yourself from the endless torment of seeing a good country go to the dogs. And spend all the household money on mindless betting on them.

        • Rosie 12.3.2.1

          Will do Warbs. Weekend Social is the relaxed and happy flip side to our political discussion on TS. A healthy dose of calm.

          As for movies, keep an eye out for Jimmy’s Hall by Ken Loach – it may well be his last movie. Set in Ireland in the 1930’s:

          http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/jimmys_hall/

          Keep up with your thoughtful writings Warbs 🙂

    • Kiwiri 12.4

      Thanks, Rosie, and see you back here in the near future.

      I appreciated your comments. You are one of the many bright shining lights.

      • Rosie 12.4.1

        Back at ya Kiwiri – I appreciated your comments too. Look forward to being back when we’ve something to work with and a new hope

    • joe90 12.5

      Haere rā Rosie.

    • Clemgeopin 12.6

      Bye for now, Rosie. I have enjoyed and agreed with your values and thoughtful posts.
      Take care. I will look forward to your future posts when you can. Cheers!

    • yeshe 12.7

      Will miss you very much, Rosie. Nourish yourself and heal deeply; all of us here can hold firm the fortresses til your return ! Kia kaha, my internet sister.

      Laugh loudly, and as often as you can ! 🙂

    • See you around Rosie 😀

    • miravox 12.9

      Cheers rosie. It’s been a pleasure to meet you. Big thanks for all the Dunne work over the election campaign and commiserations that he wasn’t dusted.

      Enjoy that Wellington summer. I miss it… sometimes 😉

    • Molly 12.10

      Will miss your comments Rosie.

      Since Sept 20th I’ve been less active on the comments side, but still been reading – and always enjoy your insights.

      Kia kaha.

    • Te Reo Putake 12.11

      What the others said, Rosie. Hope you’re back soon.

    • Murray Rawshark 12.12

      Success in whatever you do, Rosie. I’ll miss your contributions.

  11. Karen 13

    Sorry to see you go Rosie. Your posts always gave me a bit of a lift, and in the increasingly dark times ahead we will need all the help we can get to counter the right wing propaganda.

    Take care of yourself – hope to see you back here one day.

    • Rosie 13.1

      Thank you Karen. I think we’ll get there. We just need to recharge our batteries and re group. By the time 2017 comes we must make sure we do our best at what ever level we work at to prevent 9 years turning into 12 years.

      Sorry folks, didn’t mean to turn this into a leaving do, where one of those big cards gets signed by all your workmates, in our case, Comrades.

      Take Care 🙂

      • anker 13.1.1

        Very sorry to see you go Rosie. Feel free to come back, even for a quick visit when it is right for you.

      • Tracey aka Rawshark 13.1.2

        Be well Rosie…

        Keep speaking the truth… People will care when they can hear the truth through the noise. Bbring the truth to the people, one person at a time.

      • Anne 13.1.3

        You’re a treasure Rosie. Pity there aren’t lots more of you. Take a break – have a kit kat – and we’ll see you again sometime down the track.

  12. book titles we likely won’t see..

    ‘how to massage the media’ by pam corkery…

    ‘how to run a successful political election-campaign’

    ..by whoever the clown was who ran that dogs-breakfast/clusterfuck of an excuse for an election campaign..

    ..that was served up by internet-mana…

    • Tiger Mountain 14.1

      You can’t fault the energy level put in by Laila Harre´but you can fault some of the decisions. Pam should not have been hired and Hone should have camped in Te Tai Tokerau for a month. Labour put a lot of heave into the West Auckland end of Te Tai Tokerau when I know for a fact other Labour electorates resourcing were a shambles.

      The Roadtrips were effective though, but maybe counterproductive ultimately timewise.
      IMP raised Mana’s party vote by 10,000 and beat Māori, Hairdo and ACT yet those three snakes get parliamentary reps.

      But really left disunity was the deciding factor. IMP was an incredible ask and at least Mana Movement will continue. Community action is where it is at while group think rules amongst the grasping kiwis.

      “we may not be able to defeat the swine, but WE don’t have to join them”

      • phillip ure 14.1.1

        one of my main beefs..aside from a seeming total absence of strategy..nobody seemed to be doing the/any thinking..

        ..is how there was this insistance to stand candidates in ak electorates..

        ..i made myself quit unpopular arguing against this..

        ..positing that our limited resources would be scattered to the winds..and to little/no avail..

        ..and that our overall campaign wd suffer..

        ..and this is what happened…

        ..i argued for a fast-moving/cohesive campaign-team..able to move where needed in auckland..and focusing especially on the parts of auckland that were in hones’ electorate..

        ..and campaigning solely for the party vote here in the rest of ak,,..

        ..but like i say..all i did was tread on those toes that insisted their local profiles were so big they/mana cd not afford not to stand them as electorate candidates..

        ..their individual-results in those electorates made a lie of those claims..

        ..i am just concerned they won’t learn from those mistakes..

        ..and will just do it all over again..in 2017..

        • phillip ure 14.1.1.1

          and i agree that harre was one of the few bright spots in a dismal saga..

          ..it was a shame she was largely reduced to the role of going around and putting out fires..

      • wekarawshark 14.1.2

        “But really left disunity was the deciding factor”

        IP, Mana and the GP were all willing to work with other parties.

        • Tracey aka Rawshark 14.1.2.1

          You are relying on facts though wekarawshark.. I think thats the flaw here

      • bearded rawshark 14.1.3

        Corkery’s blowout, the “fuck john key video”, Hone’s car crash, infighting on policy, the unfair biased treatment from MSM, the moment of truth….there are so many reasons why what could have been a great IMP result slipped away….

        At the end of the day (oops a Keyism) Nats 47 Lab/Green 36 can easily be turned around with a good campaign next time. It has taken only days for the rockstar economy to be proven a lie, and that was the bedrock of Nats 47.

  13. King Kong 15

    Heard Parker on morning report. There is your guy.

    Such a refreshing change from Cunliffe who was often difficult to hear as he was always talking from so far inside his own anus.

    • greywarshark 15.1

      @ KingKong
      We’re lucky he didn’t have a huge one like yours then.

    • Rodel 15.2

      KK You are sooo clever. How do you think up such brilliant contributions to debates?
      We are overcome with anticipation for your next scholarly pronouncement.
      Genetically related to Cameron are you?
      ( sarc)

  14. paddy 16

    Why are the media out to get Cunliffe. They are obviously afraid of him. They know that with another 1000 days till 2017 he can get the Labour Party fighting fit and ready to take over. We must support him.

  15. anker 17

    Parker not “my guy”. Unforgivable error telling the media and therefore the public that he had no confidence in DC.

    • Clemgeopin 17.1

      I think he said that Cunliffe’s position ‘is untenable’ without explaining what exactly he meant.
      I did feel that that remark was unnecessary, unwise and unfair to have been made by him, considering he was the deputy, a senior member and a caretaker, though I am not sure if he was already in that position.

      • NeutObserver 17.1.1

        Yes, Parker used the word “untenable” talking about Cunliffe’s position, and damaged him badly. Its could be confirmed by Andrew Little’s candidacy, which will draw support from the unions.

        It is all over for David Cunliffe.

        • Colonial Rawshark 17.1.1.1

          David Cunliffe made some significant errors as Labour Leader, but he is still the standout choice by a country mile. In terms of experience, credibility and having survived the absolute worst that the NAT dirty politics machine through at him.

          There are definitely things he needs to do very differently, and the team of advisors he put around himself need a big shakeup and change around. And he needs to deliver big time, for his supporters who backed him on his message of a ‘real red Labour’ and that is the message he is getting now.

          Cunliffe remains a very strong candidate in this leadership race.

          • NeutObserver 17.1.1.1.1

            I am afraid your optimism is unfounded. Time will tell, but the next leader will be eother Robertson or Little.

          • left for deadshark 17.1.1.1.2

            Hello,about the Penn/Andy Bay Labour party branch,where do I sign up,I will qualify.

            • Kiwiri - Raided of the Last Shark 17.1.1.1.2.1

              Looks like they are a pretty well-grounded & sensible branch who are on to some good work, even while the post-elections doldrums are hanging. They are generating community awareness about a significant event for workers’ rights & social justice for an upcoming commemorative public holiday and you might be eligible to submit an essay (are you old enough??) or contact them:

              Labour Day essay competition (Southern)

          • Richard AKA RAWSHARK 17.1.1.1.3

            I asked everyone of my work mates who out of Robertson, Little or cunliffe would they prefer as labour leader. Just to help me in my coming vote.

            Of the 4 of them 1 didn’t care or have an opinion he is 24.

            the 58Yo and 70yo (I think their age group is important) Both said Cunliffe.

            So what is this shit about him being disliked so much. Yeah only by Nat lovers because they know he’s got more skills than keys lies.

  16. karol 18

    The not so Rock Star economy – on the slide downwards – all flash, little substance – who’d a guessed?

    The economy is coming off the boil, the latest New Zealand Institute of Economic Research quarterly survey of business opinion shows.

    Business confidence has fallen from 52 per cent net optimists late last year to a net 20 per cent in the September quarter this year.
    […]
    n the past nine months or so, business intentions had been positive, but hiring, investment and sales had not followed, Eaqub said.

    Moderating confidence and mixed economic news in recent months suggested a more uncertain economic outlook, NZIER said.

    The survey showed costs and prices were up in the past six months, in line with inflation of about 2.5 per cent by early next year.

    Business profit margins remained “razor thin” since the recession.

    A moderation in activity and mixed messages on the capacity of businesses to grow meant that the Reserve Bank would take a “wait-and-see approach” on the next move in interest rates, NZIER said.

    The institute expected the Reserve Bank to keep interest rates on hold at 3.5 per cent

    • Tracey aka Rawshark 18.1

      But… But… But john key is a great bloke.

      • Richard AKA RAWSHARK 18.1.1

        Tracey, go wash you mouth out! With Soap.

        • Rodel 18.1.1.1

          I see Bill English that Master of Finance is now saying after he failed to get the promised surplus in 2014, and surprise! surprise! He might not get it in 2015 either.

          Christ! Cullen got it nine years in a row, easily and without all the promises and excuses that English tries to foist upon us.

          Bill you have no clothes on. 53 % of people see that.

          • Clemgeopin 18.1.1.1.1

            Bill you have no clothes on. 53 % of people see that.

            True. Wish it was 60%.

            • Rodel 18.1.1.1.1.1

              Clemgeopin
              Imagine the rout & hastily re-clothing (sorry I mean ‘rejection’) of Emperor Bill If the 23% of non voters could be persuaded to act & vote.

              (It’s happened before and could happen again). Cheers!

  17. So how far are we down the slippery slope towards corporate fascism while John Key is trying to sell us the TPPA? I thought using the 10 points of Naomi Wolf was handy. It seems we hit all 10 points! Are we a full blown fascist state already? No, but that slippery slope just got more slippery with Nicky Hager’s house being raided.

  18. joe90 20

    Congratulation ACT, you’ve managed to delete your 1999 Tamaki candidate Alex Swney.
    /

    • Tracey aka Rawshark 20.1

      Another ACT person accused of or found guilt of fraud or deceit…

      • yeshe 20.1.1

        omg for ACT ! @tracey aka Rawshark .. how did you change your name ? Is it altogether new or can we amend existing ones ? thank you .. from rawshark-yeshe

        • Murray Rawshark 20.1.1.1

          Just change it when you post. It’s not all new. The first one goes into moderation until Lprent checks it, I think. After that it’s business as usual.

          • Clemrawgeosharkpin 20.1.1.1.1

            Ok, cool. Thanks!

          • wekarawshark 20.1.1.1.2

            when you change your name all your comments go into moderation until the first one gets checked.

            yeshe, just watch out that the name text box doesn’t revert to your old name (it takes a while for the system to update, or I just had too many tabs open when I did mine).

      • Rodel 20.1.2

        What? Who n ACT?.. No another one? What % is that now?

  19. Clemgeopin 21

    Gisborne needs your help!

    Gigatown is an online and real world competition developed by Chorus to help educate and inspire New Zealanders about the possibilities that a country connected with ultra-fast broadband over fibre can provide.

    Gisborne is in the FINAL FIVE towns, and we’re the only one in the North Island. If it won, Gisborne would get the fastest internet in the southern hemisphere (1 Gigabit per second (1Gbps) internet connection at the price you’d expect to pay for entry level broadband at 100Mbps, as well as a $200,000 community development fund.

    This would be huge for Gisborne!
    The town that wins is basically the one that makes the most noise about wanting it!

    As you may know, Gisborne is in one of the economically backward regions with high unemployment and low incomes. But the people are so very lovely and friendly. It is also the home of some famous people such as Murray Ball (cartoonist/creator of Footrot Flats), Witi Ihimaera (author), Sir James Carroll (acting Prime Minister), Charles Chauvel (politician), Parekura Horomia (politician), Apirana Ngata (politician) and Dame Kiri Te Kanawa (opera diva).

    The town that wins this competition is basically the one that makes the most noise about wanting it! The place needs a hand up please.

    Just jump onto http://gigatown.co.nz/, sign up/register with Gisborne as the town you support and please do the quiz. This could earn Gisborne lots of points!

    There are 25 questions to answer. There are clues/links for the answers.
    You can take the Fantastic Fibre Quiz as many times as you like until you get all 25 questions right (each of the questions has Gigaclues to help you out). When you have answered the 25 questions correctly, you will have earned one Gigapoint for Gisborne.

    The town with the highest number of correctly completed quizzes will win.

    There are other ways to earn points – just see the website !

    To see how great this would be for Gisborne, watch about what happened in Chattanooga USA, after they won the same kind of competition: http://gigatown.co.nz/the-idea.

    So, if you could help Gisborne get more points, that would be wonderful. Thanks very much.

    • wekarawshark 21.1

      A few questions. If Gisborne wins, will UFB be available to everyone, or just some parts of the town?

      Isn’t UFB being rolled out in many places irrespective of Gigatown?

      • Clemgeopin 21.1.1

        @ wekarawshark,
        Hi, good questions to which I don’t know the answers! I will email and try to find out the answers. Will let you know as soon as I hear back.

        Thanks and Cheers!

      • Clemgeopin 21.1.2

        I just read the FAQs and I think the first few questions have the answers you are looking for. Do they?
        http://gigatown.co.nz/faqs

        • wekarawshark 21.1.2.1

          yes and no. I was asking specifically about Gisborne. My understanding is that the UFB isn’t given to the whole town, just parts of it (I’m assuming the CBD and more affluent parts of town. Might be some questions to ask there about what’s happening where you live, who decides where teh UFB goes). And that UFB is being rolled out anyway. Which begs the question of what Gigatown is really all about.

          Sorry, I know some people are really excited about it, and I’m raining on your parade a bit, but it looks like more toys for the rich when others who are struggling could do with the support. It’s the great neoliberal promise – if we just put all this money into these sectors, then they will grow the economy and everything will be alright. Colour me cynical, but I think some businesses will do well out of this, many people won’t.

          • Clemgeopin 21.1.2.1.1

            I have emailed your exact questions to Chorus. No reply yet. Will let you know when I hear back.

            From the FAQs
            [1] Even if gigabit broadband services aren’t available at your home address, there are still ways you’ll likely benefit from having the services in your town. Schools, businesses, hospitals and medical centres are being given priority in the ultra-fast broadband network build. Chorus has committed to completing the fibre build to these sectors by the end of 2015, and many already have the ability to connect to fibre today.

            [2]The winning Gigatown will receive:

            Gigabit connectivity – Chorus will make a special 1Gbps ultra-fast broadband service available in the winning Gigatown at entry level broadband prices.
            A Gigatown development fund – a $200,000 fund provided by Chorus and Alcatel Lucent’s ng Connect will support entrepreneurs and innovators taking new services to market over the gigabit fibre connection in Gigatown.
            A Gigatown community fund – this is a $500,000 fund to be provided by Chorus over a three-year period. Organisations in the winning Gigatown community can apply to the fund to kick start community related developments that showcase how gigabit infrastructure and UFB can be activated for social good.

            Gigabit connectivity:

            Chorus provides wholesale telecommunications services which broadband providers use as the foundation for developing their retail phone and broadband services for New Zealand homes and businesses.

            Chorus will make available in the winning Gigatown a special 1Gbps wholesale service, at a special price. This special ultra-fast broadband wholesale service (let’s call it the Gigatown Wholesale Service) will be available to broadband providers. Broadband providers can then design their actual retail services and sell these to home and business customers in the winning Gigatown. The service will be available for three years from the date it launches.

            [3] The Gigatown development fund:

            To enable the winning Gigatown to fully utilise the opportunity that Gigabit broadband service brings, Chorus has teamed up with Alcatel Lucent’s ng Connect programme to make available a development fund of $200,000. This fund will support entrepreneurs and innovators from across the country to develop services in the winning Gigatown that utilise Gigabit broadband from a successful trial or prototype stage through to commercial launch.

            More details on the Gigatown development fund will be available in October.

            The Gigatown community fund:

            Chorus has created a fund for the winning Gigatown community so that it can showcase how gigabit infrastructure and ultra-fast broadband can be activated for social good. Chorus will provide a $500,000 investment over three years to be split as follows:

            $200,000 in 2015

            $150,000 in 2016

            $150,000 in 2017

            We anticipate that applications for the Gigatown community fund will relate broadly to educational, cultural, civic, health and wellbeing community related projects.

            We will work with the winning Gigatown on how best to implement this fund and will pro-vide more detail in 2015.

      • joe90 21.1.3

        Gigatown is a Chorus marketing ploy.

        http://www.chorus.co.nz/fibre-rollout-map

      • Clemgeopin 21.1.4

        Hi Wekarawshark,

        I just received a reply from Chorus. Here it is:

        “The area covered by the Chorus ultra-fast broadband network won’t be altered if your town wins our Gigatown competition. Even if gigabit broadband services aren’t available at your home address, there are still ways you’ll likely benefit from having the services in your town. Schools, businesses, hospitals and medical centres are being given priority in the ultra-fast broadband network build. Chorus has committed to completing the fibre build to these sectors by the end of 2015, and many already have the ability to connect to fibre today.

        You can find out what areas in Gisborne will be covered by UFB here: http://www.chorus.co.nz/maps

        The winning Gigatown will receive:

        Gigabit connectivity – Chorus will make a special 1Gbps ultra-fast broadband service available in the winning Gigatown at entry level broadband prices.

        A Gigatown development fund – a $200,000 fund provided by Chorus and Alcatel Lucent’s ng Connect will support entrepreneurs and innovators taking new services to market over the gigabit fibre connection in Gigatown.

        A Gigatown community fund – this is a $500,000 fund to be provided by Chorus over a three-year period. Organisations in the winning Gigatown community can apply to the fund to kick start community related developments that showcase how gigabit infrastructure and UFB can be activated for social good.

        Jon Dow | Social Media Consultant

    • JanMeyer 21.2

      Go gigatown Wanaka! I don’t need to spell out its attractions here as they will be self evident to anyone who has visited this truly special place. Outside assistance not required, but gratefully received. Refer links above

    • Richard AKA RAWSHARK 21.3

      Gisbournes bigger than Tokoroa they have been laying optical fibre’s furiously around here.

      Why is gizzy having trouble? Did you all vote Labour or something?

    • wekarawshark 22.1

      It’s not the veges, it’s the industrial food supply chain.

    • McFlock 22.2

      that’s why I stick to spare ribs 🙂

      • odysseus 22.2.1

        Every child knows veges are bad for you…

        • McFlock 22.2.1.1

          although, silver lining, gastro is a great ab toner…

        • Richard AKA RAWSHARK 22.2.1.2

          I have vivid memories as a kid of having a tomato shoved in my mouth. I mean highchair eating aged kid. wouldn’t shut up must have got to mum in the end.

          Vege’s are evil, and yes I know it’s a fruit smartarses but hey, looks, tastes like a horrible vege, it’s a freakin vege.

  20. wekarawshark 23

    While I agree with the comment about Ministers in general not needing degrees, in this case, given that the push is towards the Dept of Conservation and Tourism becoming more self funding, and less about conservation, I too think someone who can understand the science would be better.

    I can’t decide if Barry as Minister is Key throwing DOC in a corner so it can be forgotten about, or if it’s a sly ploy at something more sinister.

  21. McFlock 24

    The Nanny State becomes the Mummy State.

    The government’s now spending money texting beneficiaries to remind them to brush their teeth.

    More or less expensive than fluoridation, I wonder…

    • TheContrarian 24.1

      The got results apparently but yeah – if I got a text reminding me to brush my teeth I would think WTF?

      • McFlock 24.1.1

        Normally I’m in favour of targeted pophealth interventions, but I have concerns about:

        • the motivations for intervention (a specific line-item cost, rather than an identified population health problem),
        • targeting (half of the participants were already brushing),
        • targeting again (should the entire Canterbury population be receiving the texts, rather than just beneficiaries? Or are we only worried if you can’t afford to pay your own dental bill?), and
        • consent. When the participants were “rounded up” by Winz, were they in a real or perceived position to say “no” without losing their benefit?
        • wekarawshark 24.1.1.1

          The scheme was designed to address the “chronic” state of oral health in New Zealand and reduce the number of beneficiaries requesting expensive emergency dental care grants.

          Here’s an idea. How about paying people enough so they can eat well, and educating them about what causes tooth decay (refined carbs) and then txt them to remind them to brush their teeth.

      • Richard AKA RAWSHARK 24.1.2

        Which I had one P Benefits number I’d text her daily to ask her to remember to pull the ladder up behind her fat ugly ass.

    • Clemgeopin 24.2

      May be the beneficiaries should text the government back telling them to clean their own bums first, including Slater.

  22. left for deadshark 25

    🙄 AKA baby Rawshark,are you my daddy.
    edit Thanks it works,rolling eyes

  23. Not a PS Staffer 26

    Narratives from the 2014 Election: what do we learn?

    A Fabians Reflection on Dirty Politics, Dotcom and Labour’s worst result with

    Stephanie Rodgers, Colin James, Keith Ng and Richard Harman.

    Monday October 13th, 5:30 PM through 7:30 PM
    Connolly Hall, Guildford Terrace,
    Wellington

    Register here.

    http://www.fabians.org.nz/index.php?option=com_civicrm&task=civicrm/event/register&Itemid=56&id=116&reset=1

  24. paddy 27

    Apples – you owe me an apology. Grant Robertson’s Party vote was pitiful .His electorate vote was 19,000 and his PV was 9,000. I told you he was only pretending to get a PV. I was right. Traitor.

    • Keir 27.1

      With a massive Green party vote, owing to a very strong Green candidate (James Shaw) and a very strong campaign working on a fertile ground. Grant gets a lot of Green vote splitting. That’s not a bad thing, it’s a good thing that he can appeal across that left divide.

      It’s simply not true that Grant “was only pretending to get a PV”, and I think it’s actually completely appalling that you’re calling Apples, who clearly worked very hard for the party at the last election, a “traitor”. Get over yourself.

  25. Tracey 28

    surprisurprise surprise

    lies win again. govt $3 bn in deficit… the bogus surplus has officially not transpired… but its ok cos they got re elected on the lie…and tax take down again…. somuch for rock star economy

    • dv 28.1

      NO NO NO Tracey
      This is the cusp!!!

      Meanwhile the debt is now
      92,708,999,987

      interest per yr
      4,534,689,018

  26. Morrissey 29

    “Why is she getting inVOLVED, Naomi Wolf?”
    Unbelievably, The Panel continues to decline.

    Radio NZ National, Tuesday 7 October 2014
    Jim Mora, Penny Ashton, Dita Di Boni, Zara Potts

    First the good news: Dita Di Boni is back, and she is as strong, eloquent and focused as she was when she decisively confronted and silenced John Bishop back on September 3.

    Now the bad news: Jim Mora is still there. And Zara Potts is just another iteration of Susan Baldacci—shallow and, beneath all the chuckling, quite nasty….

    JIM MORA: Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!
    PENNY ASHTON: Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!
    ZARA POTTS: Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!
    MORA: Okay, author Naomi Wolf’s curious opinions about what’s going on with ISIS.
    ZARA POTTS: Yes, the feminist writer Naomi Wolf has criticized the New York Times for repeatedly calling ISIS “evil”. She says that is not the language of news reporting.
    MORA: [querulous tone] Why is she getting inVOLVED, Naomi Wolf?
    ZARA POTTS: Yes, well, she has a history of being outspoken about various issues.
    DITA DI BONI: But she’s correct: the New York Times has been deeply involved in the drumbeat for war.
    MORA: Yeah, but….
    ZARA POTTS: [confused] Hmmmm.
    MORA: But this has gone on from time immemorial, hasn’t it.
    ZARA POTTS: Hmmmm….
    MORA: I met her once, Naomi Wolf. She was very charming. She came to New Zealand several times, you know.

    …..ad nauseam….

    I flicked the avid New York Times reader Jim Mora the following email….

    On the New York Times’ use of language

    Dear Jim,

    When Dita Di Boni made a very serious point about the extreme and partisan language used by the New York Times, you said: “But this has gone on from time immemorial, hasn’t it.”

    Considering it has “gone on from time immemorial”, could you tell us the most recent occasion when a New York Times editorial used the word “evil” to describe the crimes of the U.S. or British regimes?

    Yours sincerely,

    Morrissey Breen
    Northcote Point

    • JanMeyer 29.1

      How utterly appalling describing ISIS as “evil”. Let’s call them freedom fighters instead.

      • Colonial Rawshark 29.1.1

        Call them what you like, ISIS is (both directly and indirectly) a US creation.

      • Morrissey 29.1.2

        1.) How utterly appalling describing ISIS as “evil”.

        You seem to be confused. Of course ISIS is evil, but so is Saudi Arabia, Israel, the United States and Great Britain. Every one of those regimes, of course, supported ISIS when it was simply creating chaos in Syria. One of them cut out the heart of a Syrian soldier and ate it on video; the United States and its “allies” continued to support them.

        2.) Let’s call them freedom fighters instead.

        That’s exactly what mainstream media WERE calling them until just a few months ago.

        • Te Reo Putake 29.1.2.1

          There is no such thing as evil. There is only human behaviour.

          • Morrissey 29.1.2.1.1

            There is no such thing as evil. There is only human behaviour.

            Nicely put, Te Reo. I agree. My point, though, is that if the New York Times describes ISIS as evil, then it should describe the United States, which is funding it in Syria even as it bombs it in Iraq, in the same language.

            • Te Reo Putake 29.1.2.1.1.1

              Yep, I agree with you there. Though the difference is that the behaviour of the US and allies is sanctioned within the western democratic process and can be said, in a broad sense, to be progressive. IS answer to noone and are entirely and proudly regressive.

              • Morrissey

                1.) Though the difference is that the behaviour of the US and allies is sanctioned within the western democratic process and can be said, in a broad sense, to be progressive.

                “Sanctioned within the western democratic process”? Come on, Te Reo, you’re not stupid. You know as well as I do that these decisions have nothing to do with democracy. How much democratic debate was there before Tony Abbott “committed” Australian bombers to the “campaign”? Who sanctioned the “US and allies” to fund the ISIS terrorists? (You are aware, I take it, that they are supporting those lunatics in Syria, even as they are bombing them in Iraq.) Is supporting ISIS progressive, in a broad sense? Or is the U.S. allowed to do what it wants?

                2.) IS answer to noone….

                Nor does Israel. Nor does the United States.

                3.) ….and are entirely and proudly regressive.

                So why do the United States, Great Britain, Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Australia support them?

                • Te Reo Putake

                  The west is not supporting IS in Syria, so your argument there doesn’t hold much water. ISIS is actually fighting the rebels that the west is supporting (though including the heart eating bloke you claim was ISIS, but actually isn’t).

                  As for Abbot etc. there is democratic debate. In fact, in one sense, you’re participating in it right now. Whether you get it or not, western governments (mostly) operate within the democratic process. The growing coalition against IS is an example of that.

                  • Morrissey

                    1.) The west is not supporting IS in Syria,
                    Yes it is, and it has been doing so for more than three years. By the way, please stop saying “the west” when you mean the United States.

                    2.) ….so your argument there doesn’t hold much water.
                    It’s not my “argument”, it’s a fact.

                    3.) ISIS is actually fighting the rebels that the west is supporting
                    So “our” support for the “moderate rebels” is targeted, precision support, like “our” bombing of civilian areas in Iraq and Gaza.

                    4.) (though including the heart eating bloke you claim was ISIS, but actually
                    He was one of those “moderate rebels” that such outstanding journals as the Daily Telegraph and the Daily Mail were lionizing until recently.

                    5.) As for Abbot etc. there is democratic debate.
                    You’re joking, surely? Abbott railroaded the decision to bomb Iraq; it was as democratic as Howard’s decision to join the Coalition of the Willing in 2003.

                    6.) In fact, in one sense, you’re participating in it right now.
                    This is not parliament. How much meaningful, serious debate on the level of this forum is there in parliament?

                    7.) Whether you get it or not, western governments (mostly) operate within the democratic process.
                    Your demeaning and arrogant language —-“Whether you get it or not”—-does nothing to bolster your argument. Your entirely faith-based contention that Western governments “operate within the democratic process” demonstrates, worryingly, that you don’t do a lot of serious or critical reading. And the Nicky Hager book showed beyond any refutation that our government does NOT “mostly operate within the democratic process”. But then I would not be surprised to learn that you buy into the Labour Party’s line—reiterated by Andrew Little and Stuart Nash on television over the weekend—that all of this left wing obsession with democracy and secrecy was a “distraction”.

                    8.) The growing coalition against IS is an example of that.
                    The “growing coalition against IS”? A few politicians being bullied by phone calls from Washington into complying is not a “growing coalition” any more than it’s democratic or just or legal. Did you buy into the “Coalition of the Willing” lie as well?

                    • Te Reo Putake

                      Sorry, mate. I haven’t got time this morning to put you right, and I doubt you want to go much beyond headlines and hyperbole anyway. Your previous history of sketchy reliance on ‘facts’ that only make sense to yourself suggests I’d be wasting time that could be better put to use cleaning out the cat’s litter tray. But you could do some actual research yourself and see what comes of that.

                      Gotta go …..

                    • Morrissey

                      TE REO PUTAKE: Sorry, mate. I haven’t got time this morning to put you right. Gotta go …..

                      TRANSLATION: “I concede.”

                  • Te Reo Putake

                    Jeez, what a wanker you are, Moz. I’ve got a life, and educating you is not a priority. I’ve done it on occasion in the past because you seem nice, if a little bewildered, but frankly you don’t really need me. All you need is google and the ability to comprehend those tricky facty things. Clue: what you think ain’t always what is so.

                    • Morrissey

                      Jeez, what a wanker you are, Moz. I’ve got a life, and educating you is not a priority.

                      That trademark humour again?

                      I’ve done it on occasion in the past because you seem nice, if a little bewildered, but frankly you don’t really need me.

                      I like you too, Te Reo. But how exactly am I “bewildered”?

                      All you need is google and the ability to comprehend those tricky facty things. Clue: what you think ain’t always what is so.

                      Ahhh! I get it. You’re upset at my pointing out that the U.S. has funded, armed and advocated for ISIS in its noble struggle against the satanic Assad government. I heard poor old Phil Goff tying himself in casuistical knots the other day, when he tried to say that supporting the people who cut out and eat the hearts of Syrian soldiers is the equivalent of supporting the Spanish Republic in the 1930s; for you to come out and admit the truth would be an act of disloyalty to the Labour Party and its line-up of similarly eloquent spokesmen.

                      Never mind the truth, of course. That’s for reprobates like Ellsberg, Chomsky, Assange, Manning, Snowden, and Hager. Loyalty to the Party line is all. This month we in the Labour Party have a particularly horrible rat that we all have to swallow: we are required to say that the people “we” (i.e., the Key government and its responsible Labour opposition) support in Syria are not ISIS, even though they are.

                      After all, that’s what dear old Phil Goff is doing. We owe it to him to stay on message.

  27. Clemgeopin 30

    An interactive closer look at voting patterns in NZ.

    Very interesting and quite revealing.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/interactives/2014/nzvote/home.html

  28. joe90 31

    The origins of Which Side Are You On?, sung during a St. Louis Symphony Orchestra performance by a flash mob supporting Michael Brown .

    Alan Lomax, writing in the American Folk Song Book (1968), says “Florence Reece, a shy, towheaded Kentucky miner’s daughter, composed this song at the age of 12 when her father was out on strike.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florence_Reece

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Which_Side_Are_You_On%3F

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYr09q9dHSo

  29. newsense 32

    Labour needs a leader who can wield the spear of anger and wield it now.

    • JanMeyer 32.1

      To take out Cunliffe, or Robertson? It’s so confusing!

      • Colonial Rawshark 32.1.1

        Grant Robertson is not fit to lead yet. It has to be David Cunliffe.

        • JanMeyer 32.1.1.1

          stop press: well known Cunliffe supporter Colonial Viper calls for Cunliffe to be speared! The tide really has turned against Cunliffe now

          • Colonial Rawshark 32.1.1.1.1

            whoops good point

            • newsense 32.1.1.1.1.1

              someone who is really angry we are the Mad Monk’s little helper and paler shadow, just without the sincerity and oddity of that leader’s religious belief. Someone who is not letting National get all their pegs in the ground for this next three years unchallenged. Cunliffe carrying on seemed like a good idea in that sense. I almost feel like I want some leader to take the Labour Party reigns in a coup d’etat just so they can get into the business of opposition, because there is too much that came out of that election campaign that needs unrelenting opposition scrutiny on. And the opposition have just well and truly surrendered any momentum or moral authority for a good long while. It starts here. Start the campaign and the victory laps now and in three years it will feel real and the cracks will show as the Nats are under pressure. Keep the blow torch on over the revelations about the National party ministers bullying and lack of accoutability.

              Last election they had a one seat majority and that was Banks. Here they’ve just got Dunne, Seymour and Ururoa-Flavell. It’s not a big gap.

  30. RedBaronCV 33

    So since Bill English is struggling with the deficit perhaps we could help him along. There is a provisional tax payment due soon so if all you people with cheque books write out a cheque to the IRD and put it in on the due date, not allowed to go over any more, it will support local employment, non bank, and if enough people do it then it should take an age to process.

    Feel free to file paper gst returns too.

  31. cricko 34

    When we are so consumed with what we are so sure that we are right,

    (like Iprent is) it closes our mind.

    (Hey, he tells us that he has a uni degree therefore in his mind he will brook no argument. He Knows.)

    For e.g.

    regarding ‘Man Made Global Warming’……..that we can’t even define the issue,,,,
    Now he calls it, ‘Climate change.’

    And he says that OUR mind is so made up that it is closed.

    In his opinion we have no hope.
    How sad.

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  • Skeptical Science New Research for Week #38, 2020
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  • Humans ignite almost every wildfire that threatens homes
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    7 days ago
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    7 days ago
  • Humans have dealt with plenty of climate variability
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    7 days ago
  • Indigenous perspectives on unrestricted access to genomic data
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    7 days ago
  • Terrible luck: lockdowns on learning and youth job prospects
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  • Ian Powell: Does private healthcare threaten public healthcare in New Zealand?
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    Democracy ProjectBy bryce.edwards
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    1 week ago
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    SciBlogsBy Marcus Wilson
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    1 week ago
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  • Anyone for Collins?
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  • Crusher’s fiscal malfunction
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  • Tax cuts for all!!! (except you, you, and you)
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  • New Zealand has role to play in resolving crisis on ‘geopolitical fault line’, Helen Clark says
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  • Euthanasia referendum: How to cut through the emotions
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  • Pasifika churches gain from PGF funding
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  • Job numbers up in August
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  • Māori development receives funding
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  • Hand-up for owners of earthquake-prone units
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  • PGF backing successful Māori enterprise
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  • Hokitika Landmark earmarked for $22m restoration
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  • Town halls and war memorials in PGF renovation programme
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    4 days ago
  • Minister of Foreign Affairs makes two diplomatic appointments
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  • NZ’s most prestigious conservation award – Loder Cup presented to Graeme Atkins
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  • Early help for whānau who need extra support
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  • Parliament to install solar and cut carbon
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    5 days ago
  • Tuvalu Language Week theme promotes community resilience in the face of COVID-19
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    5 days ago
  • International sport back up and running in New Zealand
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  • 1BT funds for Northland forest taonga
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    5 days ago
  • Better health care for West Coasters as Te Nikau Hospital officially opened
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  • Government backing local with PGF loan
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    5 days ago
  • Primary sector exports and jobs up again
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    6 days ago
  • Clean energy future for more schools
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    6 days ago
  • Building business strength with digital tools
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    6 days ago
  • New pest lures to protect nature
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    6 days ago
  • Support for innovative Pacific education responses to COVID-19 needs
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    7 days ago
  • Eligibility expanded for COVID-19 leave support
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    1 week ago
  • Seasonal work visa available to more people
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    1 week ago
  • More border exceptions for critical roles
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    1 week ago
  • Crown will not appeal Dodds v Southern Response decision
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    1 week ago
  • Crucial PGF investments for Northland
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    1 week ago
  • $27million investment in global vaccine facility
    The Coalition Government has committed to invest $27 million in COVID-19 vaccine development through the global COVAX Facility, Foreign Minister Winston Peters announced today. “The COVAX Facility is a key part of our COVID-19 Vaccine Strategy to obtain safe and effective vaccines. It allows us to invest in a high-quality, ...
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    1 week ago
  • Government backing Māori landowners
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    2 weeks ago
  • New tools to make nature more accessible
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    2 weeks ago
  • PGF makes Māori history more accessible
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    2 weeks ago
  • Making it official: The journey of te reo Māori | Kia whakapūmautia: Ngā piki me ngā heke o te r...
    The journey towards recognising Māori as an official language and taonga has been captured as a web series and launched today during Te Wiki o te Reo Māori, announced Associate Arts, Culture and Heritage Minister Carmel Sepuloni. “Te reo Māori is a living language, and understanding its significance, and pathways to ...
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  • Better-than-forecast GDP reflects decision to protect New Zealand
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  • Boost for COVID-19 related Pacific education needs
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  • More resources for kiwi conservation
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  • Improving access to affordable electricity
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  • Government achieves 50 percent women on state boards
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  • Record transport investment to help economic recovery and save lives
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  • Advancing clean energy technology
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  • Major milestone reached in Pike River Re-entry
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  • Economic recovery guides Govt response to retirement income policy review
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