Open Mike 07/10/2016

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, October 7th, 2016 - 272 comments
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272 comments on “Open Mike 07/10/2016 ”

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  1. Tautoko Mangō Mata 1
    7 October 2016 at 6:52 am

    Come on NZ! We cannot support this. Glenn Greenwald hold the mirror up to the USA to expose its shameful support of Israel’s despicable behaviour.

    Worst of all is that U.S. political orthodoxy has not only funded, fueled, and protected this apartheid state, but has attempted to render illegitimate all forms of resistance to it. Just as it did with the African National Congress and Nelson Mandela, the U.S. denounces as “terrorism” all groups and individuals that use force against Israel’s occupying armies. It has formally maligned non-violent programs against the occupation — such as the boycott, divestment, and sanctions movement — as bigotry and anti-Semitism (a position Clinton has advocated with particular vehemence), and that boycott movement has been increasingly targeted throughout the West with censorship and even criminalization. Under U.S. political orthodoxy, the only acceptable course for Palestinians and supporters of their right to be free of occupation is complete submission.

    https://theintercept.com/2016/10/06/u-s-admits-israel-is-building-permanent-apartheid-regime-weeks-after-giving-it-38-billion/

    • Draco T Bastard 1.1
      7 October 2016 at 8:39 am

      But the State Department denunciation yesterday was actually notable for what amounts to its stark and explicit acknowledgement — long overdue — that Israel is clearly and irreversibly committed to ruling over the Palestinians in perpetuity, becoming the exact “apartheid” state about which Barak warned:

      Israel doesn’t want to rule over Palestinians – they want to eliminate them. What Israel is engaging in is genocide – pure and simple.

  2. Colonial Viper 2
    7 October 2016 at 7:05 am

    A few days ago, and after the “accidental” US bombing of a Syrian army unit, Russian and Iranian media reported that a covert ‘Intelligence Operations Room’ run by the US in Aleppo province and staffed by around 30 military officers from the US and key US allies, had been targeted and destroyed by Russian sea launched cruise missiles. All foreign officers were reported killed and the facility destroyed.

    To me this explains US Army Chief of Staff Gen Mark Milley making a speech 2 days ago saying that the US was being challenged in an unprecedented way in decades but was ready to destroy its enemies anywhere, any time.

    This is on the verge of getting very nasty.

      • Colonial Viper 2.1.1
        7 October 2016 at 8:15 am

        Thanks Paul. It is ratcheting hard and idiots like Psycho Milt can’t see it for its obviousness.

        • marty mars 2.1.1.1
          7 October 2016 at 8:43 am

          If those 30 people were targeted and blown up then how is the US ratcheting it up, isn’t that the people who did the targeting and blowing up?

          • Colonial Viper 2.1.1.1.1
            7 October 2016 at 9:17 am

            You could choose to look at National’s decision to pass legislation for an ocean sanctuary in isolation, without looking at the history of the Treaty settlement or even the record of discussions on the Kermadecs over the last year or two, but if you did that you wouldn’t really be able to fully understand the dynamics of what was happening and why, would you.

            The theory is that this Operations Room was involved in co-ordinating the air strike on the Syrian Government Army position which resulted in the deaths of 83 government troops.

            So it was pay back for that. 30 western specialists and officers lives exchanged for the lives of 83 Syrian Army grunts and officers.

            • marty mars 2.1.1.1.1.1
              7 October 2016 at 9:56 am

              so payback and that makes it somehow the US ratshitting it up? Your logic doesn’t make sense.

              Oh and trying to misuse indigenous rights (Kermadec), in the same way you misuse women’s rights, to help you score petty points is, well, sorta, pathetic and petty. We don’t need the fake tears from a snake – so please just don’t bother.

              • Karen …
                7 October 2016 at 10:39 am

                +1 Marty.

                Someone who supports a misogynist racist like Trump, and then pretends to care about indigenous rights, or women’s rights, or human rights for that matter, is contemptible IMO.

                • Colonial Viper …
                  7 October 2016 at 11:08 am

                  It might help if you could think independently for a moment.

                  False Choices: The Faux Feminism of Hillary Rodham Clinton

                  “Intensely engrossing … A damning portrait of both Clinton and American politics.” – Publisher’s Weekly
                  Hillary Rodham Clinton is one of the most powerful women in world politics, and the irrational right-wing hatred of Clinton has fed her progressive appeal, helping turn her into a feminist icon. To get a woman in the White House, it’s thought, would be an achievement for all women everywhere, a kind of trickle-down feminism.

                  In the run-up to the 2016 presidential election, the mantle of feminist elect has descended on Hillary Clinton, as a thousand viral memes applaud her, and most mainstream feminist leaders, thinkers, and organizations endorse her. In this atmosphere, dissent seems tantamount to political betrayal.

                  In False Choices, an all-star lineup of feminists contests this simplistic reading of the candidate. A detailed look at Hillary Clinton’s track record on welfare, Wall Street, criminal justice, education, and war reveals that she has advanced laws and policies that have done real harm to the lives of women and children across the country and the globe. This well-researched collection of essays restores to feminism its revolutionary meaning, and outlines how it could transform the United States and its relation to the world.

                  https://www.versobooks.com/books/2121-false-choices

                  • Karen …
                    7 October 2016 at 11:38 am

                    “It might help if you could think independently for a moment”.

                    Unable to deny that Trump is a racist misogynist you decide to insult me instead. Did I say Hillary Clinton was a feminist? Did I say anything at all about Clinton? No.

                    Just for the record I read very widely and I assess many sources before I come to any opinion about any issue, and I am always ready to have my ideas challenged by people whose opinion I value. My judgement on whose opinions are worth valuing depends on their knowledge of a topic and is tempered by their attitudes to human rights, racism, etc.

                    I do not value your opinion.

                    • marty mars …
                      7 October 2016 at 11:46 am

                      + 1 Karen.

                      That viper thinks he is independent shows the extent of his delusion. I value your actual independent views – keep them coming please.

                    • Colonial Viper …
                      7 October 2016 at 1:07 pm

                      Unable to deny that Trump is a racist misogynist you decide to insult me instead.

                      Why the should I bother trying to deny bullshit liberal lefty propaganda memes?

                      Instead, I am carefully pointing out how much worse and studied a misogynist Hillary Clinton is, which includes her personal enabling of predatory sexual behaviour, and how much worse a liar she is, as per her record in public office.

                    • lprent []
                      7 October 2016 at 1:15 pm

                      CV: the reason that your comments are going into moderation is because you are commenting without logging in. Wordfence auto moderates all comments by non-logged commenters that match people with logins. The reasons for this are obvious – it is to highlight possible spoofing. Could you either login, or use a pseudonym/email that doesn’t clash.

                    • marty mars …
                      7 October 2016 at 1:14 pm

                      yeah ratshitting it up because you got NO actual argument because your man is a total abomination – and you know it

                    • lprent []
                      7 October 2016 at 1:18 pm

                      marty: the reason that your comments are going into moderation is because you are commenting without logging in. Wordfence auto moderates all comments by non-logged commenters that match people with logins. The reasons for this are obvious – it is to highlight possible spoofing. Could you either login, or use a pseudonym that doesn’t clash.

                      If you don’t know your password, tell me and I’ll send through a password reset when I’m cleaning up the login system this weekend.

                    • marty mars …
                      7 October 2016 at 1:32 pm

                      Yep I can’t remember my password – so either an email or reset would be good. Does that mean I have to log in each session – I haven’t in the past but if that is what it takes I’ll gladly do it – spose I could add a cool gravitar too.

                      Thanks for your help L.

                    • lprent []
                      7 October 2016 at 1:42 pm

                      Ok. I’ll send a reset this evening. I want to check the email works.

                      It will be pretty much the same as usual. The browsers will remember the logged in details. You just have to remember the login/password occasionally when the browser forgets (upgrades etc).

                      In the meantime, I’m turning off the security check.

                    • McFlock …
                      7 October 2016 at 3:29 pm

                      cool bananas – could you send me a reset as well 🙂

                      edit – sorry Karen, that was to lprent

                    • xanthe …
                      7 October 2016 at 5:07 pm

                      Rinocrates
                      http://wondermark.com/1k62/

                      Thats wonderful, required reading for thestandard moderators

                    • One Two …
                      7 October 2016 at 5:32 pm

                      Actually Karen you have it backwards, as it was you who insulted CV

                      You essentially accused CV of being a racist and mysogenist because he has expressed opinions backing Trump..

                      Therefore CV is unable and in fact ineligible in your mind to have valid opinion on other topics because you have decided they don’t count

                      Frankly your view and opion is not only a logical fail but also emotionally flawed

                      Marty Mars has let his own prejudice get in the way and his support for your comment is terribly misplaced

                • TheExtremist66 …
                  7 October 2016 at 11:34 am

                  False equivalence once again from CV

              • Colonial Viper …
                7 October 2016 at 11:14 am

                so payback and that makes it somehow the US ratshitting it up? Your logic doesn’t make sense.

                Not my problem that you can’t tell the fundamental difference between “escalation” and “matching” in a game of deterrence.

                • marty mars …
                  7 October 2016 at 3:26 pm

                  it isn’t matching it is escalation and it is pretty obvious. Hell for a fanatic internet general you don’t seem to understand the basics – maybe all your years of living over in Russia has coloured your thinking – oh that’s right you get your facts off the net…

                  • Draco T Bastard …
                    8 October 2016 at 9:17 am

                    it isn’t matching it is escalation and it is pretty obvious.

                    It could also be considered a warning rather than a ratcheting up.

                    The US has been doing shit and getting away with it for far too long and usually at the expense of Russia and other nations. This could be a very physical we’re not going to take this shit from you any more on the Russians part.

                    The next step is in the US’ hands. Whether they continue acting like a childish bully or if they start acting like an mature adult.

                    And, no, I don’t think that the US killing those Syrians was a mistake and I’m pretty sure that the Russians don’t think so either.

        • Paul 2.1.1.2
          7 October 2016 at 11:07 am

          I am sure you have seen this.
          Just wish others would watch it and listen carefully.

          John Pilger – A World War Has Begun: Break The Silence

          In the last eighteen months, the greatest build-up of military forces since World War Two — led by the United States — is taking place along Russia’s western frontier. Not since Hitler invaded the Soviet Union have foreign troops presented such a demonstrable threat to Russia.

          Ukraine – once part of the Soviet Union – has become a CIA theme park. Having orchestrated a coup in Kiev, Washington effectively controls a regime that is next door and hostile to Russia: a regime rotten with Nazis, literally. Prominent parliamentary figures in Ukraine are the political descendants of the notorious OUN and UPA fascists. They openly praise Hitler and call for the persecution and expulsion of the Russian speaking minority.
          This is seldom news in the West, or it is inverted to suppress the truth.

          In Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia — next door to Russia – the US military is deploying combat troops, tanks, heavy weapons. This extreme provocation of the world’s second nuclear power is met with silence in the West.

          http://johnpilger.com/articles/a-world-war-has-begun-break-the-silence-

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUW5-LlLQ1Q

          • Colonial Viper 2.1.1.2.1
            7 October 2016 at 11:11 am

            Thanks for the link, Paul.

          • Paul 2.1.1.2.2
            7 October 2016 at 12:04 pm

            Russia will take down any American airplane or missile targeting Syrian army!

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQ0cTxABUY8

            • Colonial Viper 2.1.1.2.2.1
              7 October 2016 at 1:23 pm

              Also worth remembering the Russian approach in these matters – they talk small and they act big. They try to only minimally telegraph their plans. Stylistically, this tends to be the diametric opposite of the US approach.

          • mosa 2.1.1.2.3
            8 October 2016 at 11:02 am

            If war does” officially” break out no guesses whose side we will be on with Key in the beehive.
            Why is this military build up happening without official comment and has not been raised so far in the presidential campaign ?

        • Kevin 2.1.1.3
          7 October 2016 at 1:21 pm

          The usual ‘talk tough’ routine from a US Military leader.

          Fine and dandy till they have to fight on foreign soil and the body bags start arriving back home. US soldiers are not know for their morale once the going gets tough.

          Fighting Russian forces will be quite a bit different to fighting Iraqi conscripts who would rather be someplace else.

      • halfcrown 2.1.2
        7 October 2016 at 12:07 pm

        Thanks, Paul, Are we sure this boneheaded cretinous bloody dangerous prat is for real? or is it a new modern version of the TV programme Rowan & Martins Laughin with General Bull Right
        That is one of the problems today, we don’t have the satire that shows up these dickheads for what they are.

    • Paul 2.3
      7 October 2016 at 7:17 am

      Meanwhile the Herald’s online stories are:

      Aaron Smith sex scandal: ‘A huge mistake’ – All Black speaks
      Bullies ‘set fire’ to autistic boy
      Thunderstruck: ‘Household was shaking’
      Dick Smith CEO has his day in court
      Is this Steven Adams’ biggest fan?
      Luxury air travel fares drop by 40%
      Revealed: NZ’s cheapest supermarket
      Shortland Street shock as Rachel leaves
      Business Class punch-up onboard flight
      $1200 for pizza order that never arrived

      The Cold War is simmering and we still get fed pap.

      • Bearded Git 2.3.1
        7 October 2016 at 8:17 am

        @Paul on the same topic Morning Report was dross this morning.

        In an hour from 6.30 it was mostly very very long weather forecasts, TWO stories on the UN secretary-general job (this has been done to death-the classic being Susie Ferguson’s questioning who will be appointed deputy to the s-g; Quiz question: name the current, or any, deputy s-g) followed by (yes you guessed) Aaron Smith’s knee trembler, though to be fair Guyon’s interview with the reporter in South Africa was good, especially when the reporter said Smith’s mistake was to have his AB’s kit on to which Guyon said “well some of the time” and the reporter’s comment (paraphrasing here) that “he was amazed the NZ PM had got involved. In South Africa this would never happen as there are far more important issues for the PM to deal with.” Precisely.

        Who on earth is editing Morning Report these days?

      • mary_a 2.3.2
        7 October 2016 at 12:49 pm

        @ Paul (2.3) WHAT!!!! Nothing about that shallow, still in shock Kardashian woman. NZH’s standards are indeed slipping! (sarc)

        Seriously though, I agree with you. The pathetic un-newsworthy rubbish msm is dishing up as news, has National’s chief of misinformation Joyce’s foul stamp all over it, directing what Kiwis shall or shall not be told.

        To keep the people informed on the important issues, might open up some thought and discussion, giving rise to some serious questions being asked.

        • xanthe 2.3.2.1
          7 October 2016 at 4:48 pm

          Yes it is an outrage that the shallow MSM has so quickly dropped the kardashian story. What are they afraid of!

      • Crashcart 2.3.3
        7 October 2016 at 1:21 pm

        Whilst I agree with your point in general I hardly think setting a disabled 10 year old on fire is “pap”.

        • marty mars 2.3.3.1
          7 October 2016 at 3:51 pm

          yep

          Aaron Smith sex scandal: ‘A huge mistake’ – sex, role models, social norms, toxic masculinity
          Bullies ‘set fire’ to autistic boy – othering, dehumanising, violence
          Thunderstruck: ‘Household was shaking’ – climate change, community
          Dick Smith CEO has his day in court – potential corporate notgoodthings
          Is this Steven Adams’ biggest fan? – heroes, role models
          Luxury air travel fares drop by 40% – the 1%ers
          Revealed: NZ’s cheapest supermarket – the bottom 50%ers
          Shortland Street shock as Rachel leaves – issues raise3d about her on screen addictions/manipulated
          Business Class punch-up onboard flight – violence, 0,1%ers
          $1200 for pizza order that never arrived – food, nutrition, service

          So Paul each and every one of those stories can be illuminating to the current issues facing humankind in 2016.

          It is like when my 8year old says, “It’s boring” umm no ‘it’ isn’t.

          You have to search out the flakes of gold, it takes work – stop moaning and do some work paul.

          • McFlock 2.3.3.1.1
            7 October 2016 at 4:04 pm

            I’m mildly relieved that the kid being set alight looks to be accident resulting from kids playing with fire rather than malice. Doesn’t change much overall, poor lad is still in a bad way and South Sudan still looks sucky, but I register enough shit in the world already.

    • Psycho Milt 2.4
      7 October 2016 at 7:27 am

      A few days ago, and after the “accidental” US bombing of a Syrian army unit, Russian and Iranian media reported that a covert ‘Intelligence Operations Room’ run by the US in Aleppo province and staffed by around 30 military officers from the US and key US allies, had been targeted and destroyed by Russian sea launched cruise missiles.

      Things reported by “Russian media” mean “things the Russian government would like reported.” Can you think of a reason why the Russian government might want to release a story for domestic consumption about how they paid back the Americans hard for that friendly fire incident against a Russian client? Because I can. For consumption outside Russia and Iran, they’d need some evidence that this actually happened, which is why it’s not news outside those countries.

      • Paul 2.4.1
        7 October 2016 at 7:37 am

        And things reported by corporate western media mean things the military industrial complex would like reported.

        • Psycho Milt 2.4.1.1
          7 October 2016 at 7:44 am

          I’m glad you posted a 9/11 Truther video to illustrate your point – it does illustrate it, just not in the way you’d hoped.

          • Paul 2.4.1.1.1
            7 October 2016 at 7:55 am

            9/11 was the first big lie.
            Iraqi weapons of mass destruction was the second and it looks like Syria is the third.

            And the gullible still believe what the repeaters and the sockpuppets tell them. We are on the brink of WW3 thanks to this ubnquestioning acceptance of the media.

            By the way, ad hominems do not an argument make. You do not end a debate by saying the words ‘truthers.’ or ‘conspiracy theory.’

            Iraq

            Man whose WMD lies led to 100,000 deaths confesses all
            http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/politics/man-whose-wmd-lies-led-to-100000-deaths-confesses-all-7606236.html

            9/11

            9/11 – the big cover-up?
            https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2007/sep/12/911thebigcoverup

            • Psycho Milt 2.4.1.1.1.1
              7 October 2016 at 8:46 am

              As expected, the opinion piece “9/11 – the big cover-up?” fails to either identify or describe a cover-up, let alone a big one.

                • Psycho Milt …
                  7 October 2016 at 8:52 am

                  He’s wrong. It was the Illuminati, assisted by the Lizard people.

                  • RedLogix …
                    7 October 2016 at 9:29 am

                    I spend very little time or energy thinking about 911 these days. For a few months immediately afterwards I was intensely curious, but quickly realised that as a very ordinary person on the other side of the planet I had no way to properly verify any information … official or otherwise.

                    The ‘truthers’ probably made a mistake to have spent so much energy on the building collapses. While they were the dramatic, visible and deeply intriguing aspect of what happened that day, it was the astounding myriad of other details, coincidences, inconsistencies on the fringes of these events which left the biggest impression on me.

                    No single one of them amounted to a smoking gun. Many could have just been an artifact of confirmation bias, but the sheer mass of them could not be so easily dismissed. The internet has accumulated an extraordinary volume of speculation on 911, probably much of it misguided, near-misses or downright absurd. But that does not mean ALL of it is wrong. Even if just 1% of it is correct we still have a problem.

                    In the end it comes down to credibility, “who ya gunna believe?” Well you cannot get around the established fact that official 911 narrative was written by the same people who told us Iraq had WMD’s it was about to unleash on the world. On that basis alone you have to understand these people are capable of the big, deliberate and conscious lie. The truthers have failed to land a critical blow, the establishment loses more and more credibility with every passing year. Both have hidden agendas, both twist and distort to suit their purposes. After all these years, all these wasted pixels, certainty eludes us.

                    It is my guess that only a very small number of people know exactly what happened that day; probably fewer than 30. And they are all very good at keeping secrets.

                    • Colonial Viper …
                      7 October 2016 at 10:54 am

                      The main thing is understanding that the official narrative of the events of 9/11 cannot be correct.

                      From passengers making cell phone calls at 30,000 to 40,000 feet in the air, to the 110 tonne mass of Flight UA93 ‘vapourising’ into a small burnt hole in Shanksville paddock (but the flight recorders found intact) to the NIST modelling and explanation for the collapse of WTC7 now being definitively refuted.

                      However, as to what actually happened on that day I agree with you that only a few dozen people at most would know.

                    • Anne …
                      7 October 2016 at 11:09 am

                      I am reminded of all the crazy theories in the years after the President Kennedy assassination. All of them ultimately debunked.
                      I suspect something similar will happen over 9/11.

                      The film clip of the 9/11 tragedy which made quite an impression on me at the time was the moment George W Bush was informed of what happened. He was sitting in a classroom reading to the children and – while he showed no facial emotion – I could see the shock in his eyes. He got up and quietly left the room.

                      I have no doubt mistakes were made and actions taken that the “authorities” wouldn’t want the masses to know about (there always is) but a US conspiracy of lies as promoted by the 9/11 conspiracy theorists? No way. Those hijackers were al qaeda trained terrorist operatives and they were there to commit the gravest possible damage possible on behalf of Osama bin Laden and co.

                    • Psycho Milt …
                      7 October 2016 at 11:20 am

                      In the end it comes down to credibility, “who ya gunna believe?” Well you cannot get around the established fact that official 911 narrative was written by the same people who told us Iraq had WMD’s it was about to unleash on the world.

                      And that is a very good example. The WMD claim was a big, deliberate lie involving only a few intelligence operatives, and it fell to bits in pretty short order. As you say, it comes down to credibility, and a big, deliberate lie involving huge numbers of people and far greater complexity than the WMD scam, but that has held solid for 15 years and counting, just isn’t credible.

                    • RedLogix …
                      7 October 2016 at 11:34 am

                      @PM

                      I thought about point that when I was writing it. My response is that the two matters are not equivalent or directly comparable.

                      It was my sense that ultimately if there was a secret operation around 911, it actually did not need to involve very many people at all. And it was all over in a matter of hours.

                      By contrast invading Iraq involved whole armies from many countries, over many years. Of course that lie was unsustainable. (And even then it took years before it was officially acknowledged as such.)

                    • TheExtremist66 …
                      7 October 2016 at 11:36 am

                      CV – the calls were not made from cellphones. They were made from the phones already on the plane.

                      And the reasons for the collapse of the WTC 7 haven’t been refuted in the slightest

                    • Paul …
                      7 October 2016 at 11:38 am

                      The story we have been told cannot be correct.
                      We don’t know what happened and we do know that we have been lied to.

                    • Colonial Viper …
                      7 October 2016 at 11:48 am

                      I am reminded of all the crazy theories in the years after the President Kennedy assassination. All of them ultimately debunked.

                      So you believe the conclusions of the Warren Report?

                      You don’t think that Oliver Stone makes some very obvious points?

                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7tZd3M6j5Q

                    • Colonial Viper …
                      7 October 2016 at 11:54 am

                      CV – the calls were not made from cellphones. They were made from the phones already on the plane.

                      From the onboard Airphones you mean?

                      You need to recheck your facts. In the official narrative, although those Airphones were also used, at least two of the calls were made from passenger cell phones.

                    • Psycho Milt …
                      7 October 2016 at 12:40 pm

                      It was my sense that ultimately if there was a secret operation around 911, it actually did not need to involve very many people at all. And it was all over in a matter of hours.

                      Thing is, what kind of a secret operation? The one that Paul et al favour, that it was actually a false flag operation by the US government, is so laughable that once you know someone gives it credence, you write them off as completely lacking judgement. Lesser versions, such as that they US government knew it was planned but allowed it to happen, still have a huge credibility hurdle in that it requires all of the people involved to have no conscience and to have never mentioned it to someone who does. That’s common among the people running totalitarian regimes, but isn’t in democratic ones, and even in totalitarian regimes it usually gets out eventually. There is no credible theory of a secret operation yet presented.

                    • McFlock …
                      7 October 2016 at 1:14 pm

                      CV:

                      cell phone signals can work between 20 and 40 miles from a tower.

                      30000ft is about 6 miles.

                      Using the power of geometry again, in a right-angled triangle where the height of the aircraft is 6 and the length of the hypoteneuse (distance between the plane and the cell tower) is 20, then the ground distance from the cell tower is roughly 18.

                      So to make a cell call from 30,000ft a cell tower needs to be within an 18 mile ground radius for the minimum call duration. Aluminium airframe might lower that, but no terrain interference would compensate the other direction. I lazily wonder whether clouds or humidity might be an issue either way.

                      So anyway, yeah it’s possible to make a cell call from an airplane.

                    • Colonial Viper …
                      7 October 2016 at 2:31 pm

                      So anyway, yeah it’s possible to make a cell call from an airplane.

                      Firstly, how does the range of those towers change once you take into account that cell phone towers have the maximum sensitivity of their TX/RX antennae configured for terrestrial (ground or near ground) mobile phone users?

                      Secondly, are there any other examples (other than 9/11) where passengers in the late 90’s / early 00’s successfully used their mobile phones from planes over 30,000 feet?

                      By the year ~2000 virtually every business professional on a commercial plane would have had a mobile phone.

                    • ImTotallyMcFlock …
                      7 October 2016 at 2:47 pm

                      It looks like people were using cellphones on aircraft in the 1980s, and on private and corporate jets in the 1990s.

                      In fact, the main problem with their signal on the cell network seems to be that they tie up too many cell towers at the same time, rather than having difficulty just reaching one.

                    • One Two []
                      7 October 2016 at 5:44 pm

                      Incorrect

                      Speed plays as big of a factor as the distance from the towers

                  • Paul …
                    7 October 2016 at 11:07 am

                    ad hominems…..

            • Red 2.4.1.1.1.2
              7 October 2016 at 3:08 pm

              Yes Paul ever day to you a new crisis dawns, doomsday looms, what a sad existence you lead

      • Colonial Viper 2.4.2
        7 October 2016 at 8:13 am

        A story in the English services of Russian and Iranian media is not for “domestic consumption” if you think about it.

        Btw the people in the Pentagon who need to know, know the truth.

        • Psycho Milt 2.4.2.1
          7 October 2016 at 8:50 am

          Well yeah, the version released in the English services isn’t for domestic consumption – it’s for the gullible dupes in the English-speaking world who imagine they’re consuming something other than government propaganda via those services.

          There are of course people in the Pentagon who know the truth or lack of it in the story, but I don’t think they’re going to join the thread to confirm or deny it.

    • Gabby 2.5
      7 October 2016 at 8:51 am

      Are we sure the ‘Intelligence Operations Room’ wasn’t a hospital?

      • Colonial Viper 2.5.1
        7 October 2016 at 10:19 am

        What would a hospital be doing with military personnel from the US, UK, France, Turkey and Israel?

        • McFlock 2.5.1.1
          7 October 2016 at 12:55 pm

          Are we sure that the “military personnel from the US, UK, France, Turkey and Israel” weren’t babies?

          • lprent 2.5.1.1.1
            7 October 2016 at 1:17 pm

            McFlock: the reason that your comments are going into moderation is because you are commenting without logging in. Wordfence auto moderates all comments by non-logged commenters that match people with logins. The reasons for this are obvious – it is to highlight possible spoofing. Could you either login, or use a pseudonym that doesn’t clash.

            If you don’t know your password, I’ll push a password reset through over the weekend (I’m cleaning up unused logins and fixing the login system then)

        • Gabby 2.5.1.2
          7 October 2016 at 8:50 pm

          Are we sure the ‘ military personnel ‘ weren’t medical staff?

          • Colonial Viper 2.5.1.2.1
            7 October 2016 at 9:01 pm

            Dunno, but they’re all dead now according to Iranian and Russian news services, and the intelligence operations facility that they were working out of destroyed.

      • The Chairman 2.5.2
        7 October 2016 at 10:47 am

        Makes a good cover.

  3. Paul 3
    7 October 2016 at 7:34 am

    The Aaron Smith saga shows how dreadful the media has begun.
    RNZ is there with the rest of the awful tabloid media this country now has.

  4. Paul 4
    7 October 2016 at 7:35 am

    Brilliant talk.
    Worth 18 minutes of your time.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVNvfbOaJ3M

    • Richard Rawshark 4.1
      7 October 2016 at 9:05 am

      I gazed at this big white space for 18 minutes, I feel sleepy, not enlightened?

      what clip?

  5. The Chairman 5
    7 October 2016 at 7:46 am

    Some inmates were so badly injured in the fighting they were hospitalised, for injuries ranging from brain damage to broken limbs.

    In some cases staff present in a unit were observed from CCTV footage failing to undertake an active role in supervising prisoners – for instance staff were observed playing pool or table tennis.

    Prisoners who refused to participate were threatened or “pack attacked” by gang members.

    Despite some incidents meeting the threshold for serious assault, Serco reported them to Corrections as “accidents”, or not at all, the report said.

    Serco paid $8 million to cover the costs of Corrections stepping in and for failing to reach performance targets. It also missed out on performance bonuses worth $3.1m.

    The Government could not rule out rehiring Serco to run the Mt Eden jail again in future.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=11723624

    Does anybody know if the inmates that were forced to partake have been compensated?

    • Paul 5.1
      7 October 2016 at 7:56 am

      Fortunately for John Key the Aaron Smith story has drowned this out….even on RNZ.

    • Muttonbird 5.2
      7 October 2016 at 8:01 am

      Government shrugging this off as nothing to do with them. It’s all Corrections’ and Serco’s fault apparently and the private model (reducing costs and raising risks for profit) which they forced upon the sector is and always was the way to go.

      • The Chairman 5.2.1
        7 October 2016 at 8:25 am

        The fact that the Government could not rule out rehiring Serco (despite it’s poor performance) raises questions if it goes beyond being merely an ideological belief.

      • Psycho Milt 5.2.2
        7 October 2016 at 8:36 am

        Government shrugging this off as nothing to do with them.

        The ability to do this is a major, if never-mentioned, benefit of privatising prisons – from the government’s perspective, at least. Not so much for the rest of us.

      • Wensleydale 5.2.3
        7 October 2016 at 11:01 am

        That’s what I love about National’s attitude to private prisons. It borders on a religious belief. Serco ran Mt Eden like a man with no legs runs the New York marathon. They woefully understaffed the prison (presumably a cost-cutting measure), lacked all supervision of both inmates and officers (whose attitude to their roles appeared to be “I’m just chillin’ with my homies, yo!”), failed to adequately monitor the deteriorating situation and then lied about it all in an attempt to evade responsibility.

        And National’s response is basically, “Yes, we acknowledge that this all looks distinctly shonky and we’ve rapped Serco across the knuckles accordingly. In other news, we’ll probably award them another multi-million dollar contract sometime in the near future despite their track record of incompetence, negligence and a complete disregard for the job they’re being paid millions of tax-payer dollars to perform. It could be worse, after all. They could be having sex in a public toilet. Tsk tsk, Aaron Smith. Shame on you.”

    • Chuck 5.3
      7 October 2016 at 10:46 am

      “Does anybody know if the inmates that were forced to partake have been compensated?”

      Yes, you will be happy to hear that the Head Hunters have offered the inmate’s they forced to participate in the Mt Eden fight club $10k each or to the same value in meth. 🙂

      • The Chairman 5.3.1
        7 October 2016 at 10:58 am

        Seriously though, has Serco coughed up?

        Is anyone taking a case?

        Is there anything in the contract ensuring Serco are liable to compensate inmates they fail to care for?

  6. The Chairman 6
    7 October 2016 at 7:59 am

    The Chinese community seem to have been feeling rather generous towards Phil Goff.

    In all, the event raised $250,000, which is around half the candidate’s estimated campaign bill.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=11723129

    • Muttonbird 6.1
      7 October 2016 at 8:04 am

      They like to back a winner, don’t they?

      Corruption though? No sir, not the Chinese!

      • Gabby 6.1.1
        7 October 2016 at 8:55 am

        Careful, they may just have Chinesesoundingsurnames but be diedinthewool kiwis of long standing.

    • Ad 6.2
      7 October 2016 at 9:54 am

      And good on him.
      A winning campaign is a well funded campaign.
      Hope he wins tomorrow.

    • Bearded Git 6.3
      7 October 2016 at 12:45 pm

      The Herald (yes I know highly dubious) reader poll today has Crone 34 Goff 33 Swarbrick 17

      Some interesting numbers there! Really shows who reads the Herald-Goff should walk it on these numbers given the characteristics of the response group…..but….but…. Swarbrick is really eating into Goff’s vote with an amazing 17%

      • The Chairman 6.3.1
        7 October 2016 at 1:10 pm

        Interesting.

        Here’s a survey showing that among voters saying they will definitely vote, Goff is attracting 50 per cent of all Labour voters and 35 per cent of Greens. But he is also picking up 24 per cent of National Party voters and 25 per cent of NZ First voters.

        http://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/84608545/phil-goffs-winning-centreright-appeal

        • Colonial Viper 6.3.1.1
          7 October 2016 at 3:15 pm

          Hilarious; 50% of Labour voters will not support the former Labour Leader

        • rhinocrates 6.3.1.2
          7 October 2016 at 4:23 pm

          He must be disappointed not to pick up many ACT supporters.

        • xanthe 6.3.1.3
          7 October 2016 at 4:59 pm

          Goff is a complete waste of space IMIO . As minister of justice he failed to exercise his responsibility to see justice done in the case of Peter Ellis.
          Dont expect anything more than favors for business friends from him.

          • Gabby 6.3.1.3.1
            7 October 2016 at 8:46 pm

            Well, nobody offered to ‘buy’ so much as a bottle of wine from him. Such lack of commitment.

      • save nz 6.3.2
        7 October 2016 at 4:03 pm

        @Bearded Git. Pretty much anything could happen with such low voter turn out.

        If Goff somehow managed to lose or win by a small margin compared to what he originally had, some lessons for labour there.

        • Bearded Git 6.3.2.1
          7 October 2016 at 4:47 pm

          @savenz…..agreed abysmal turnout will certainly help Crone. How hard is it to post a letter?

          The real scandal is that (anecdotally) many potential voters are not even registered, so the one third that vote are much less than that in reality. The Labour/Green bloc should be working right now to increase registration for the election next year.

  7. ianmac 7
    7 October 2016 at 8:23 am

    Toby Manhire being serious about Child Poverty versus Key inaction.
    “As has been noted repeatedly this week, it’s more than a little galling that a bold target can be set to rid New Zealand of predators but not to rid New Zealand of child poverty, although it’s important to note that no one is suggesting such eradications should following the same prescriptions.”
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11723866

    • Bearded Git 7.1
      7 October 2016 at 9:40 am

      Manhire is a hero. Keeps me sane. I love his Totally Fucking Baffled measuring device.

    • Puckish Rogue 7.2
      7 October 2016 at 10:25 am

      Its simpler in theory to get rid of predators then it is to deal with people

    • weka 7.3
      7 October 2016 at 2:13 pm

      “although it’s important to note that no one is suggesting such eradications should following the same prescriptions.”

      Pity, because it’s about time that people in power stood up and named NACT as the predators that they are. I would say a similar prescription would work. We can’t eradicate pests, but we can learn how to control them and keep them in their place so they don’t fuck with the wider ecosystem.

      • xanthe 7.3.1
        7 October 2016 at 5:19 pm

        Weka
        ” We can’t eradicate pests, but we can learn how to control them and keep them in their place so they don’t fuck with the wider ecosystem.”

        That is really important truth.. many policy makers and standard contributers dont get this. That must be the foundation of any pest policy!

    • rhinocrates 7.4
      7 October 2016 at 4:22 pm

      Clearly Toby Manhire has mistaken the “ashprashnull” for “aspirational”. An ashprashnull person makes promises while an aspirational person tries to fulfil them.

  8. Richard Rawshark 8
    7 October 2016 at 9:04 am

    No ones links are appearing? vids? I just get blank boxes that are quite large with only what the commenter says, not there clip. -sysop

  9. Tory 9
    7 October 2016 at 9:27 am

    Hey Paul, when you join the David Vaughan Icke fan club, do you also get complimentary copies of “Enemy of the State” and “Conspiracy Theory”?

    • RedLogix 10.1
      7 October 2016 at 9:52 am

      Yeah. Sanctimonious panty-sniffers are a bit like the poor … they will always be with us.

      • Puckish Rogue 10.1.1
        7 October 2016 at 10:04 am

        Yeah my view is this:

        If the couples kid needed the toilet why didn’t one parent take the kid to another toilet and the other parent go find security/management but instead they waited 10 minutes filing the incident

        If no laws were broken then whose business is it anyway but If a law was broken then charge Aaron Smith and the women involved

        Why does Aaron Smith have to be paraded on TV and beg forgiveness as if he’s done something terrible

        Having said all that…if you’re a public figure then its best not to do anything dodgy in public

  11. joe90 11
    7 October 2016 at 9:50 am

    Getting serious now.

    Truly dire warning from @NWSMelbourne ahead of Matthew: “If a direct landfall occurs this will be unlike any hurricane in the modern era”(!) pic.twitter.com/t67xIOHEIc— Jon Passantino (@passantino) October 6, 2016

    Population Impacts from #Matthew [NWS forecasts]Tropical Storm Gusts: 17.6MHurricane Force Wind Gusts: 6MMajor Hurricane Force: 1.5M pic.twitter.com/I0YmwYUZdL— Ryan Maue (@RyanMaue) October 6, 2016

    #HurricaneMatthew

    And then there’s shit like this.

    Hurricane Center has monopoly on data. No way of verifying claims. Nassau ground observations DID NOT match statements! 165mph gusts? WHERE?— MATT DRUDGE (@DRUDGE) October 6, 2016

    The deplorables are starting to wonder if govt has been lying to them about Hurricane Matthew intensity to make exaggerated point on climate— MATT DRUDGE (@DRUDGE) October 6, 2016

  12. Doogs 12
    7 October 2016 at 10:06 am

    For the Nact train smash and all its attendant little carriages, it is now 5 minutes to midnight. Woooo Hoooo!!!!

    • Puckish Rogue 12.1
      7 October 2016 at 10:16 am

      ?

      • Robert Guyton 12.1.1
        7 October 2016 at 10:23 am

        You know, Pucky – Doogs is doing for the Left what you do for the right – mocking and eroding your confidence, over-playing any perceived advantage and aiming to discourage adherents (in this case, you and your mob).
        I’m amazed you didn’t recognise it!

        • Puckish Rogue 12.1.1.1
          7 October 2016 at 10:31 am

          Well I tend to post something to back up what I say, polls, articles that kind of thing, people may not believe it but at least I try to base it on something

          This is really close to the “I sense the tide is going out on National because I spoke to someone” kind of thing with nothing to back it up with

    • Paul 13.1
      7 October 2016 at 10:18 am

      Yes very interesting. It says a lot about Guyon Espiner’s political views.

      And it’s very interesting ( and a kiss of death) that ACT supporters like yourself promote Nick Leggett.

      You all support the neoliberal wing of the Labour Party.

      A much better prospect for Wellington….

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDUJNE35cJQ

      • James 13.1.1
        7 October 2016 at 11:03 am

        Paul – not an act supporter. But thanks for guessing wrong yet again.

        • Paul 13.1.1.1
          7 October 2016 at 11:49 am

          Interesting that an overt right winger supports Leggett.
          Like all those Tories in the UK supporting Owen Smith and all those large corporates supporting Clinton.

    • Muttonbird 13.2
      7 October 2016 at 10:43 am

      Do you get all your news from kiwiblog?

      • Paul 13.2.1
        7 October 2016 at 10:45 am

        He is just trolling.
        Repeating what Farrar tells him to say.

        • Puckish Rogue 13.2.1.1
          7 October 2016 at 10:50 am

          When the biggest troll on the site (Paul) says someone’s trolling then there might be something to it 🙂

          • Paul 13.2.1.1.1
            7 October 2016 at 11:10 am

            I dunno about you, but I thought this was a left wing site.
            And you only come on this site to stir up trouble.
            That’s trolling.

            • Puckish Rogue 13.2.1.1.1.1
              7 October 2016 at 11:18 am

              I know about you and when you’re faced with an opinion you don’t agree with you cry troll

        • Muttonbird 13.2.1.2
          7 October 2016 at 10:53 am

          It’s interesting. No sooner is there an anti-Little/Labour cut and paste from Farrar than it miraculously appears here.

        • James 13.2.1.3
          7 October 2016 at 11:08 am

          Muttonbird – yes got link from kiwiblog. Then read it and found it interesting. This posted in here – you know a blog that discusses politics.

          Paul – you will see there was no commentary from me other than it was an interesting read.

          How you take that as repeating farrar I don’t know.

          All I can guess is that the two of you are so pathetic that you actually have no reasonable comment and just have to follow post of people who disagree with you and make unfounded and bullshit (Paul looking at you) comments.

          So I’m guessing hat makes you guys the trolls – and second rate ones at that.

          • Paul 13.2.1.3.1
            7 October 2016 at 11:11 am

            Cutting and pasting from Kiwiblog is repeating farrar.
            This is a left wing blog.

            • Muttonbird 13.2.1.3.1.1
              7 October 2016 at 11:15 am

              Literally. Cutting and pasting the cut and paster is the sincerest form of flattery.

            • James 13.2.1.3.1.2
              7 October 2016 at 12:41 pm

              I will type this slowly for you. I clicked on the link from kiwiblog and then after reading the article copied the link and pasted here.

              That’s not repeating dpf it’s using a little thing call hyperlinks. They are all over the internet.

              And congrats yes this is a left wing blog. Well done. I’m sorry comrade I missed the bit where everything written has to be be left good – right bad and no other discussion is allowed or must be called lies or trolling.

              • Stuart Munro …
                7 October 2016 at 2:46 pm

                If you ever posted anything ‘leftgood’ you might get a different reaction – but you only come here to exhibit your biases. You have no content and you don’t engage. That’s trolling.

            • Red 13.2.1.3.1.3
              7 October 2016 at 3:17 pm

              Since when did you become god re the rules on this site

  14. ianmac 14
    7 October 2016 at 10:54 am

    And Minister Parata was speaking to the U Learn Conference of teachers in Rotorua yesterday.
    Actually everything that she said was true to my ears, though I thought that most schools had been innovating already.
    “Going forward, some of the key themes that will characterise New Zealand’s future education system are:

    -every student can be in the driving seat of their own learning through digital technologies, with support from highly skilled teachers who help them chart a course to achieve their goals for the future;

    -the collapse of traditional institutional boundaries with students able to learn from a range of settings, both physical and virtual;

    -learning in collaboration with their peers and others, face-to-face and virtually;”…

    and many more.
    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1610/S00084/speech-to-ulearn16-conference-rotorua.htm

  15. joe90 15
    7 October 2016 at 11:05 am

    heh

    In depo for Trump Plaza bankruptcy case, Trump's own lawyer testifies they often met with him in pairs because Trump lies so much. pic.twitter.com/TdEkdf4ZiB— southpaw (@nycsouthpaw) October 6, 2016

  16. mauī 16
    7 October 2016 at 11:34 am

    A doco on the indiscriminate Russian bombing in Aleppo, Syria. Just awful.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mtyk0f_8AfI

    • Paul 16.1
      7 October 2016 at 11:57 am

      You need to be a bit more discerning about your sources.

      Has Al-Jazeera lost its journalistic independence?

      That’s the charge made by some prominent staffers who quit their jobs at the Arab TV network. They claim Al-Jazeera is now beholden to a political agenda dictated by the man who bankrolls the operation, Sheikh Hamad bin Khalifa Al Thani, the emir of Qatar.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Jazeera_controversies_and_criticism
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_coverage_of_the_Syrian_Civil_War
      http://english.al-akhbar.com/node/4941
      http://www.globalresearch.ca/al-jazeera-from-media-power-to-laughing-stock/30159?print=1
      http://www.globalresearch.ca/journey-to-aleppo-exposing-the-truth-buried-under-nato-propaganda/5547333

      • mauī 16.1.1
        7 October 2016 at 1:00 pm

        Looking at the documentary I find it difficult to come to the conclusion that it’s been fabricated.

        It’s part of the reason why I’m not sure if I want to take sides anymore on who’s right and wrong. There’s atrocities from all sides.

        • marty mars 16.1.1.1
          7 October 2016 at 2:10 pm

          yep and fanatics on both – I always get very wary of those who profess to know, from the other side of the world, what is going on in such a messed up, complex and confusing situation. The squeaky door technique does not mean they know more.

          • Colonial Viper 16.1.1.1.1
            7 October 2016 at 2:58 pm

            There is one side that is most certainly wrong and that is Turkey allowing a flow of arms, men and materiel to resupply the Islamists with in an illegal effort to take down Assad, and NATO/US at the very least implicitly approving of that.

            • marty mars 16.1.1.1.1.1
              7 October 2016 at 3:19 pm

              I’m wary, nay skeptical, of anything you say – as I’ve said to you before your ability to discern is gone, your ability to consider is gone – all that is left is gone, you are a puppet saying set lines to spin a story – probably a fanatic by most of the inaccurate and frankly embarrassing spin you seem to love to tell us all, along with slogans NKorea would be proud of.

              • Colonial Viper …
                7 October 2016 at 4:58 pm

                Well, if you can’t judge for yourself the last several years role played by Erdogan and Turkey in Syria, you probably shouldn’t be criticising my abilities of discernment.

      • Stuart Munro 16.1.2
        7 October 2016 at 2:50 pm

        Actually Al Jazeera is quite good – probably because Qatar has no hegemonic agenda for Syria. If only Russia could say the same – but they can not.

        • Colonial Viper 16.1.2.1
          7 October 2016 at 3:01 pm

          What’s the “hegemonic agenda” that Russia has for Syria?

          What’s the “hegemonic agenda” that the US has for Syria?

          BTW the Qatari want control of Syria to go to a friendly government willing to deny Syrian territory to Gazprom, and instead put Qatari pipelines through to Europe.

          I’m sure you knew that, right?

          • Stuart Munro 16.1.2.1.1
            7 October 2016 at 7:59 pm

            Russia’s hegemonic agenda includes permanent ground force basing and a Mediterraean naval base. It also includes dumping shit on everything the US does or attempts, whether or not it might be constructive.

            You believe yourself remarkably well-informed about Qatari ambitions. Now, get a map and draw a line consistent with this pipeline you envisage. If such a pipeline is planned rest assured Qatar is a pretty minor player compared to others on its route.

            And do explain why Gazprom is entitled to veto a Qatari pipeline anyway.

            • Colonial Viper 16.1.2.1.1.1
              7 October 2016 at 8:19 pm

              Russia’s hegemonic agenda includes permanent ground force basing and a Mediterraean naval base.

              Why should the US have a score of military bases located around the Med and Russia not even have one or two?

              After all, the Mediterranean is far closer to Russian national interests than to US national interests.

              And do explain why Gazprom is entitled to veto a Qatari pipeline anyway.

              Gazprom doesn’t. However, the Syrian Government does, and it declined the Qatari pipeline proposal in 2009.

              • Stuart Munro …
                7 October 2016 at 8:33 pm

                No problem with Syrian bases for Russia – if you ascribe the same predatory hegemonic agenda to them that we do to US base expansion.

                So Gazprom isn’t really part of the equation – you brought them up – they are irrelevant. Qatar is entitled to support or press for a pipeline – though not by force of arms.

                There is rather a lot of force of arms in Syria atm. Everywhere that Russia goes armed force, not public assent, is seen to triumph. This is not democracy. Putin rigging his first election was not democracy. Putin having Politkovskaya and Nemtsov killed and revising the Russian constitution to become effectively president for life is not democracy.

                And Assad’s lifelong ‘presidential’ misrule of Syria is not democracy. Democracies do not barrel bomb their citizens – only despots do that.

    • Colonial Viper 16.2
      7 October 2016 at 12:40 pm

      A doco on the indiscriminate Russian bombing in Aleppo, Syria. Just awful.

      Important to remember that over 3/4 of Aleppo is under government or YPG control now.

      Unfortunately in the remaining area several thousand Jihadist/ISIS fighters have created a whole tunnel/bunker network around, under and through many civilian buildings.

      Eliminating these entrenched forces will be tough, deadly work and yes despite safe evacuation corridors created earlier in the year for civilians, there will be many civilian deaths.

      • Psycho Milt 16.2.1
        7 October 2016 at 2:36 pm

        It’s kind of funny how much your comments these days read like US spokesthings’ announcements from its more unsavoury wars. I used to read shit like the comment above all the time when I was working for the US Army during the Iraq War – it’s as stomach-turning coming from you as it was from them.

        • Colonial Viper 16.2.1.1
          7 October 2016 at 2:43 pm

          Syrian Government forces with Russian air support will be doing exactly the same thing in South West Aleppo as US/Iraqi forces have done to cities like Mosul/Fallujah/Ramadi with US air support.

          • Psycho Milt 16.2.1.1.1
            7 October 2016 at 3:41 pm

            Even in 2003, the US military wasn’t bombing cities by unloading barrels full of explosive out of the back of a helicopter, and generally managed to avoid hospitals. The indiscriminate attacks on civilian targets you’re promoting as reasonable are actually worse, by a long way, than the activities of the US military in Iraq that you constantly treat as a benchmark of western criminality. And orders of magnitude worse than the drone strikes you get so irate about.

            • Colonial Viper 16.2.1.1.1.1
              7 October 2016 at 5:04 pm

              So you say.

              But barrel bombs delivered by helicopter are just another BS western propaganda trope. Firstly if they existed they are nothing more than low yield IEDs.

              Secondly helicopters are highly vulnerableto small arms fire and are thus a useless delivery platform for these weapons.

              • McFlock …
                7 October 2016 at 5:23 pm

                lol

                low yield IED

                Stop pretending you know what you’re talking about. They can be equivalent in size to the largest regularly used conventional bombs (2,000 pounds), and the “yield” in this context is meaningless (I suspect you came across the term in arguments about nukes, and didn’t realise that the explosive power of a nuke has more to do with its construction than its net weight in explosive material).

                Secondly, yes helicopters are vulnerable. that’s why there’s footage of them dropping barrel-shaped objects that seem to be associated with large explosions where they land, and helicopters being shot down. Someone who avidly seeks online videos like you do will have seen it. It’s a pretty simple youtube search. Similarly wikipedia has a page devoted to them and another to their use in Syria, both with source links.

                None so blind as those who will not see, I guess.

                • Colonial Viper …
                  7 October 2016 at 5:34 pm

                  They can be equivalent in size to the largest regularly used conventional bombs (2,000 pounds), and the “yield” in this context is meaningless

                  Why is “yield” in this context meaningless? You yourself have noted that conventional warheads and bombs are measured by “yield”.

                  and didn’t realise that the explosive power of a nuke has more to do with its construction than its net weight in explosive material).

                  Huh? Nukes?

                  Secondly, yes helicopters are vulnerable. that’s why there’s footage of them dropping barrel-shaped objects that seem to be associated with large explosions where they land, and helicopters being shot down.

                  But so what? The Syrian airforce has a very limited number of helicopters and each of these helicopters would only be able to carry a bomb load of a few of these barrels.

                  With a high risk of getting shot down.

                  Totally combat ineffective weapon, and hence a silly propaganda trope used by the west.

                  BTW when you see photos and video of places like Homs totally levelled to the ground, that was done by artillery, not by primitive ineffective improvised “barrel bombs” whatever the hell they are.

                  • McFlock …
                    7 October 2016 at 10:11 pm

                    Well, obviously it must be sensible to them because there’s so much film of them actually doing it.

                    Cheap substitute for jet bombs, and more accurate. So a few older choppers and younger pilots get zotzed. Plenty more aid from Putin when that becomes and issue.

                    You yourself have noted that conventional warheads and bombs are measured by “yield”.

                    Have I? Where?

              • Psycho Milt …
                7 October 2016 at 9:32 pm

                But barrel bombs delivered by helicopter are just another BS western propaganda trope.

                The eye-witness accounts, the video footage, the unexploded barrel bombs… no expense spared on those BS western propaganda tropes, huh?

                Secondly helicopters are highly vulnerable to small arms fire and are thus a useless delivery platform for these weapons.

                It’s funny how often you dismiss things that actually happened with some made-up bullshit about how something like that couldn’t happen. Here’s a heuristic that could improve your life dramatically: if your theory and actual events in the real world are in dispute, it’s very unlikely to be the actual events in the real world that are mistaken.

                • Colonial Viper …
                  7 October 2016 at 10:11 pm

                  How many barrel bombs in total have been dropped? What % of the total munitions used during the Jihadist invasion of Syria have been barrel bombs?

                  “Barrel bombs” are just a propaganda trope used by the west.

                  I have no doubt that a few have been used here and there, but they are clumsy, slow improvised weapons and the Syrian government doesn’t want their helicopters so easily shot down.

                  A standard 155 mm howitzer shell has way more destructive potential than some ad hoc rarely to never used “barrel bomb.”

                  • McFlock …
                    7 October 2016 at 10:27 pm

                    A standard 155 mm howitzer shell has way more destructive potential than some ad hoc rarely to never used “barrel bomb.”

                    Really? 100lbs of HE vs up to 2000lbs in a barrel?

                    I see you still haven’t bothered to look up “barrel bomb” in wikipedia. Most if not all your questions would be answered.

                    • Colonial Viper …
                      7 October 2016 at 10:43 pm

                      Oh yes wikipedia. How many US officers were convicted of war crimes for using “barrel bombs” on Vietnamese and Laotian villagers?

                      OK one barrel bomb might at times kill more people than a single 155mm howitzer shell. But an improvised, unreliable IED is exactly that: improvised and unreliable.

                      And in fifteen minutes you can deliver fuck all barrel bombs in comparison to the saturation shelling you can accomplish with artillery.

                      BTW who needs dangerous, unreliable and difficult to deliver “barrel bombs” now that the Russian air force is using precision bunker buster munitions in theatre.

                    • pat …
                      7 October 2016 at 11:05 pm

                      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Syrian_Civil_War_barrel_bomb_attacks

                      “The war in Afghanistan brought with it losses by attrition.[16] The environment itself, dusty and often hot, was rough on the machines; dusty conditions led to the development of the PZU air intake filters. The rebels’ primary air-defense weapons early in the war were heavy machine guns and anti-aircraft cannons, though anything smaller than a 23 millimetre shell generally did not do much damage to an Mi-24. The cockpit glass panels were resistant to 12.7 mm (.50 in caliber) rounds.”

                      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mil_Mi-24

                    • McFlock …
                      7 October 2016 at 11:11 pm

                      Oh yes wikipedia. How many US officers were convicted of war crimes for using “barrel bombs” on Vietnamese and Laotian villagers?

                      Your trademark non-sequitur.

                      Anyway, your questions will be answered if you go to wikipedia, search “barrel bomb”, and then click on “syria”. Knock yourself out.

        • Poission 16.2.1.2
          7 October 2016 at 2:49 pm

          then again we may need the people to sing.

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhNrqc6yvTU

      • Stuart Munro 16.2.2
        7 October 2016 at 2:51 pm

        I was just reading Fisk on Aleppo – it’s curious how Aleppo was the centre of genocides in 1915 too.

  17. Richard Rawshark 17
    7 October 2016 at 12:04 pm

    News FLASH!!!!!

    OMFG it’s a catastrophe!!!

    Standardista’s grab a coffee and sit down.. this is going to be rough..

    You know Russia and the US are preparing for war, and they are almost launching nukes over Syria, and that China’s is a communist country allied with Russia, well…..

    This is far more important.. John Key is flying there now, I presume.

    http://www.newshub.co.nz/sport/dan-carter-and-joe-rokocoko-fail-drugs-test—report-2016100711

  18. Paul 18
    7 October 2016 at 12:06 pm

    Professor Steve Keen (Kingston University) says property prices could fall up to 70%, and why Australia will be hit by a recession in 2017.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czyG7UgRWTM

    • RedLogix 18.1
      7 October 2016 at 12:50 pm

      Cripes. I really admire Steve for a lot of reasons …. but my god he has a propensity for putting his nuts on the line!

      Logically his argument is good, but reality has a way of being less logical. A lot will depend on just how much longer China keeps exporting vast amounts of flight capital into the Australasian property markets.

      • Colonial Viper 18.1.1
        7 October 2016 at 1:02 pm

        Yep – you cannot underestimate how long they can keep this game of pretend and extend going.

      • Draco T Bastard 18.1.2
        7 October 2016 at 4:33 pm

        Logically his argument is good, but reality has a way of being less logical.

        It's not reality that's less logical but that our financial system is totally delusional.

        A lot will depend on just how much longer China keeps exporting vast amounts of flight capital into the Australasian property markets.

        Well, the Chinese authorities do seem to be trying to stop that.

  19. Paul 19
    7 October 2016 at 12:12 pm

    It just keeps getting better for rugby.

    Carter and Rokocoko test positive for steroids – French report

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/sport/315087/carter-and-rokocoko-test-positive-for-steroids-french-report

    • Puckish Rogue 19.1
      7 October 2016 at 12:49 pm

      Since we also have this:

      http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/international/85072693/dan-carter-joe-rokocoko-fail-drug-tests-but-cleared-for-banned-substance–agent-says

      So how about instead of jumping to a conclusion based on your own particular dislike of rugby you wait until more information comes to hand…

      • mauī 19.1.1
        7 October 2016 at 1:21 pm

        If your agent doesn’t come to your defence you’d be wanting another agent damn quick.

        • Puckish Rogue 19.1.1.1
          7 October 2016 at 1:29 pm

          So a newspaper reports something and that’s it? No need to look any further? If its printed it must be 100% correct?

    • mauī 19.2
      7 October 2016 at 1:11 pm

      Isn’t it amazing the amount of high performance athletes like Sharapova, Serena/Venus Williams, Tour de France cyclists, and all those olympic athletes who are all carrying debilitating medical conditions while competing at the highest level in sport. Thank god for Therapeutic Use Exemptions (TUE’s) they must be thinking!

      • Puckish Rogue 19.2.1
        7 October 2016 at 1:27 pm

        When you consider the amount of punishment their joints would take its not really, like imagine what its like to spend a couple of hours running up and a clay court, day after day and week after week, not counting the practice as well

        Then consider the extra punishment players in contact sports take as well, like Dan Carter will be called on to stop 110kgs plus running at him time and time again, it makes sense that TUEs are allowed, in certain situations

        However if its found they’ve broken the rules then they should be dealt with accordingly

        • mauī 19.2.1.1
          7 October 2016 at 1:42 pm

          No, it creates an avenue to cheat, and it’s obvious this is rife now for anyone who isn’t nieve. If you can take a substance that can enhance your performance some people will do that and take advantage of the rules.

          • Puckish Rogue 19.2.1.1.1
            7 October 2016 at 1:56 pm

            If you don’t think that the increasing size of players and the amount of extra stress on joints means an increase in TUE then you are the one who is naïve

            http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/71656588/all-blacks-2015-world-cup-squad-make-the-class-of-87-look-like-figurines

            “At 92kg, right wing John Kirwan was like Gulliver in the land of the Lilliputians during the 1987 Rugby World Cup, a physical anomaly. Seven of the All Blacks’ 12 backs weighed under 80kg.

            To put things in perspective, Kirwan would have been four kilograms lighter than the average All Black back in the 2015 squad Fox helped select for this year’s World Cup.”

            As long as what they players are doing are within the rules then its just another media beat up

  20. marty mars 20
    7 October 2016 at 12:26 pm

    All my comments are going into moderation again – just letting you know L

    [thanks marty. It’s happening to a few of us – weka]

    • Colonial Viper 20.1
      7 October 2016 at 1:31 pm

      Thanks to the mods who have been working hard to release these caught comments, it’s a pain I know

      • marty mars 20.1.1
        7 October 2016 at 1:33 pm

        + 1 Yep Thanks so much

      • lprent 20.1.2
        7 October 2016 at 1:39 pm

        Indeed. I noticed after I’d released a very few. So I spent a few minutes to do a diagnosis of why it was happening.

        It was a feature that I had turned off on the original install of Wordfence. However it is a valid and useful security measure against the odd fool that wants to indulge in identity theft, so this time around I’ll shift behavior.

        I also want to reactivate the ability for established commenters to use logins if they wish to. It bypasses the issues that Anne and others have commented about with the blocked cookies not remembering the comment details. And I’m pretty sure that I can fix the issues with the damn bots seeking logins.

  23. thechangeling 23
    7 October 2016 at 4:05 pm

    Here’s my student loan rant from a few days ago that i posted as a comment to one of the contributors on a series about student loans on stuff.co.nz.
    I just thought it contained some good valid points and maybe could provoke some more intelligent debate about a scheme that’s clearly very dysfunctional and unegalitarian and stuff rarely sees any good analysis, just emotive and nasty snide comments:

    This article on stuff I’m responding to sounds like it was written by a right wing think tank policy person perhaps representing The New Zealand Business Roundtable or their new name ‘The New Zealand Initiative’.
    The writer is however correct about one thing which is that the responsibility for the paying of a much larger proportion of tertiary education has been switched from the taxpayer and placed on to the shoulders of students themselves unlike any other previous generation in New Zealand which did not have to endure this (which includes many current and former National Party politicians who benefited from previous schemes but instituted this one)
    The systemic problem with this scheme is that in a deregulated neo-liberal environment in New Zealand today where jobs are scarce, wages are low and not only not keeping pace with productivity but with the disestablishment of the requirement of employers to conclude collective bargaining means that students with student loans struggle to pay them back at all.
    Now couple this economic environment with a student loans scheme that has a much lower repayment threshold (NZ$18,000) than several other developed European countries including Australia (about $40,000) and interest placed on top of this if you are forced to work overseas because getting a job in New Zealand was much harder than anticipated and you have a recipe for inter-generational debt ultimately causing poverty.
    The working overseas after 6 months (184 days) category is particularly punitive in that it doesn’t take into account the borrowers income at all but simply states that you must pay for example $5000 per year if your loan is over $50,000. That amount of payment (if you can afford it) barely covers the interest for one year and at that rate it would take more than 100 years to pay it off.
    The Student Loans scheme as it stands now is simply unworkable, unsustainable, punitive and generally unfair. To effectively create a ‘tax switch’ from taxpayers to students via a right wing ideological ‘userpays’ system (in order to keep other tax rates such as corporate tax at a much lower level than they should be) we are ‘building in’ inter-generational inequity, poverty, and homelessness.

    • Draco T Bastard 23.1
      7 October 2016 at 7:08 pm

      Now couple this economic environment with a student loans scheme that has a much lower repayment threshold (NZ$18,000) than several other developed European countries including Australia (about $40,000) and interest placed on top of this if you are forced to work overseas because getting a job in New Zealand was much harder than anticipated and you have a recipe for inter-generational debt ultimately causing poverty.

      The Student Loans scheme as it stands now is simply unworkable, unsustainable, punitive and generally unfair. To effectively create a ‘tax switch’ from taxpayers to students via a right wing ideological ‘userpays’ system (in order to keep other tax rates such as corporate tax at a much lower level than they should be) we are ‘building in’ inter-generational inequity, poverty, and homelessness.

      Working exactly as designed then.

    • Sacha 24.1
      7 October 2016 at 6:59 pm

      Maybe. Thinking of precedent, what happened with Carrick Graham’s ex-MP father Doug in the end?

      • Draco T Bastard 24.1.1
        7 October 2016 at 7:10 pm

        We shouldn’t have to wonder. A crime of such deception, of such fraud should be an automatic loss of the knighthood.

      • Chris 24.1.2
        7 October 2016 at 7:46 pm

        Graham didn’t lose his knighthood because the conviction wasn’t for something he deliberately set out to do. Was more about failing to take reasonable care. Love, on the other hand, is a different story. Unless there’s a successful appeal he’s likely to lose his knighthood.

    • marty mars 24.2
      7 October 2016 at 9:00 pm

      I’m not forgiving him or excusing him but I feel very sad about this. Sad it happened and has come to this conclusion.

  25. The Chairman 25
    7 October 2016 at 4:40 pm

    The Kiwi CEO of ANZ Bank has pledged to look at cutting credit card rates and apologised for failing customers on day two of a parliamentary committee review critics say is increasingly playing out a familiar, sorry, and soft, script.

    Echoing comments yesterday from Commonwealth Bank boss Ian Narev, Shayne Elliott told the second day of the hearings into the big four banks his industry had lost touch with its customers, was full of apologies for past wrongdoings by ANZ, and promised to do better.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/banking/news/article.cfm?c_id=126&objectid=11723790

    https://youtu.be/fRh_vgS2dFE

  26. Garibaldi 26
    7 October 2016 at 4:50 pm

    Well, thank goodness for Colonial Viper and Paul.

    • Colonial Viper 26.1
      7 October 2016 at 5:07 pm

      People tell me I’ve lost all sense of discernment and logic, but so be it 🙂

      • Garibaldi 26.1.1
        7 October 2016 at 6:53 pm

        Au contraire CV , I find your discernment and logic far superior to those that decry you.

        • TheExtremist66 26.1.1.1
          7 October 2016 at 7:16 pm

          Well, you’d be wrong because CV frequently makes logically fallacious arguments.

          • Colonial Viper 26.1.1.1.1
            7 October 2016 at 7:35 pm

            well, I prefer to refer to them as “logically flexible” arguments, but suit yourself.

            • TheExtremist 26.1.1.1.1.1
              7 October 2016 at 10:00 pm

              Logical fallacies aren’t “flexible”. If you have make logically fallacious arguments in order to prove your point it means your point isn’t valid and you need to start again

              • Colonial Viper …
                7 October 2016 at 10:20 pm

                How do you people even cope with the 96.79% of human behaviour which isn’t remotely logical or rational?

                • TheExtremist …
                  7 October 2016 at 10:36 pm

                  Because 96.79% of life isn’t spent forming and defending arguments on The Standard. If I go the shop and buy something I don’t expect nor receive the following:

                  “$4.50 for bread, that’s a bit steep.”
                  “Yeah but Hillary is a misogynist”

                  Talking to you here, however, the preceding is pretty standard issue.

        • Colonial Viper 26.1.1.2
          7 October 2016 at 7:33 pm

          You are most gracious, sir.

    • Paul 26.2
      7 October 2016 at 8:47 pm

      Thanks Garibaldi

      • In Vino 26.2.1
        7 October 2016 at 11:41 pm

        I am inclined to agree with Garibaldi. CV has never praised Trump as far as I remember: he admits all Trump’s failings, but then gets into trouble by trying to warn you that Hillary may well be worse. He has not praised Trump, but gets accused of doing so for criticising Hilary. Sorry..
        Given the confused state of things – especially, it seems , of the USA electorate, it would not surprise me if Trump did win. That does not mean I want him to.
        Given the hostile trolls that spend endless time in disrupting discussion on this site, I echo Garibaldi’s praise of CV and Paul.

  27. Colonial Viper 27
    7 October 2016 at 8:24 pm

    Alex Jones – a character as ever – decries Hillary Clinton using a minor and child actor as a political tool in a town hall meeting to further her campaign’s attack narrative on Trump

    The most interesting part about this segment is watching how Hillary Clinton lies to the entire crowd by pretending to be surprised and delighted by a ‘random question’ that she knew was coming, and which was probably written for the child actor.

    https://youtu.be/ceJldaor7nI?t=255

  28. Colonial Viper 28
    7 October 2016 at 9:08 pm

    16 out of 23 Obamacare non-profit insurance co-ops have failed, US$1.7B in Federal loan money lost in failed bureaucracies

    Only 7 of the original non-profit 23 health insurance provider co-ops remain solvent.

    Obama’s signature health insurance initiative is becoming increasingly crippled by the month.

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/sallypipes/2016/07/25/obamacares-co-op-disaster-an-unfunny-comedy-of-errors/#4a19a2cec91f

  29. Anthony 29
    7 October 2016 at 10:22 pm

    My thoughts on being a candidate in this year’s (admittedly rather lack-lustre) local body elections.

    I will also say that if the media had spent less time telling everyone how poor turnout was going to be, and more time analysing candidates in their regions, we might have had a more interesting campaign overall.

    http://anthonyrimell.com/blog/25-there-and-back-again

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  • McClay reaffirms strong NZ-China trade relationship
    Trade, Agriculture and Forestry Minister Todd McClay has concluded productive discussions with ministerial counterparts in Beijing today, in support of the New Zealand-China trade and economic relationship. “My meeting with Commerce Minister Wang Wentao reaffirmed the complementary nature of the bilateral trade relationship, with our Free Trade Agreement at its ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

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