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Open mike 07/12/2015

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, December 7th, 2015 - 134 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

openmikeOpen mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose. The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

134 comments on “Open mike 07/12/2015 ”

  1. veutoviper 1

    Audrey Young on the Herald is predicting that Key will announce a Cabinet reshuffle today, rather than after the summer holidays. Young is usually close on such matters.

    A possibility is that Collins will take over Corrections.

    Other possibles include Groser going to Washington as Ambassador in February with Todd McLay taking over Trade; Goldsmith taking over IRD; Foss out all together; Nick Smith out of Housing and Woodhouse out of Workplace Relations and Safety. She also predicts David Seymour (ACT) and Mark Mitchell receiving promotions.


  2. Gavin 2

    iPredict, a NZ political and economic betting website, has sent out a general email to all members of the site about the gradual shutdown of the operation. No timeline available yet, but all couched in the most positive way possible.


    Until early 2015, Professor Neil Quigley was the Chair of both Viclink, the parent body attached to Vitoria University, and the board of iPredict Ltd. Neil Quigley is a member of two U.S. think tanks, one of which is openly right-wing. Prof Quigley has taken up the job of Vice-Chancellor at Waikato University, and his place on the two boards at Victoria appear to have been given to Kate McGrath.

    Whether this is part of the change of heart by Viclink, to shed this rather embarrassing site that was being openly hijacked by the Right, is open to conjecture, and will never be admitted to, if that is what has happened.

    In any case, higher net worth members are disappearing from the iPredict list as they cash up, and as no money is allowed in to replace it -they haven’t provided a status report to the media since June 2015- this is a dead duck for sure. Good news, an election tool stripped away from the National Party and their bloggers.

    Meanwhile, at open-plan Waikato University, Prof Quigley is making his mark by introducing staff and student carparking fees for the first time (since the 1970s). At a cost of either $300 or $750 per vehicle per year, it looks a lot like a pay decrease for staff, and an extra fee for students.


    • One Anonymous Bloke 2.1

      Professor Quigley’s political beliefs are a conflict of interest; all his decisions will be pre-determined by them.

    • dv 2.2

      Wasn’t it because they were shut down because of bank regs re possible money laundering?

      • Gavin 2.2.1

        dv, you have to read between the lines here. Victoria Link experimented with this site for seven years, with Prof Quigley at the helm for most of that time. They could have put some more money/effort in to meet the new rules. But that would have been rough on the more affluent punters or the paid bloggers, who most likely had multiple accounts, defying the site’s rules. The site rules about membership were not enforced by anyone, and then to top it all off, an extreme right-wing person got control of the reporting function. This then led to press releases at crucial times close to the elections, that immediately followed fresh and unusual trades that flattered National’s position. I have no doubt that one of the reasons for the site being made ready just before the 2008 election, and following on from there, was to generally bolster National and neoliberal policies. Maybe RW Prof Quigley was quite happy with this state of affairs, but Victoria University’s board might have been perturbed about them being mentioned in “Dirty Politics”. The new money laundering rules don’t seem to need to apply to this site, but it’s the opportunity to cut it free, that Viclink seem to be interested in. Read the press release again, dv. Someone is poking something uphill with a pointed stick.

  3. savenz 4

    Artists Fill Paris With 600 Fake Ads To Protest Corporate Sponsorship Of Climate Conference

    “Paris is grabbing the world’s attention again, but this time, it’s with environmental messages aimed at the world leaders, including Obama, that gathered for the COP21 climate conference on Monday. 600 fake posters denouncing major corporations were installed behind the glass at bus stops around the city by Brandalism, a UK-based project. 82 artists from 19 countries joined them to help fight corporate control in advertising.
    “By sponsoring the climate talks, major polluters such as Air France and GDF-Suez-Engie can promote themselves as part of the solution – when actually they are part of the problem,” Joe Elan from Brandalism said in their press release.”


  4. Gangnam Style 5

    “You ain’t no muslim bruv” an east Londoners perfect response to a knife wielding idiot running amok in London Underground. http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/dec/06/you-aint-no-muslim-bruv-britons-social-media

  5. Whispering Kate 6

    Have just been listening to the morning news on Channel 1, Rawden was interviewing Key, I think it’s his Monday interview he does. They came to the Christmas party held this weekend for National Party volunteers etc, which had a big protest outside of the venue. Key was questioned about this, and he was furious, said it was disgraceful that they tried to ruin the occasion. He even said angrily that “they stopped me from attending” – I couldn’t believe what the man was saying. He is scared stiff of protests and it’s either fear for his safety or embarrassment – probably fear knowing him, craven that he is. All I could think of was “own the situation mate and face up to poverty in NZ and how a great majority won’t be even able to have a Christmas meal let alone a party with all the trimmings”. I have never heard anything like it, a man afraid to face a protest – God save us all, who does he think he is, does he take his heavies with him to the bloody toilet.

    • Rosemary McDonald 6.1

      A text book case….?


      “Paranoia involves feelings of persecution and an exaggerated sense of self-importance. Paranoia occurs in many mental disorders and is rare as an isolated mental illness. Since the delusions involve only one area, a person with paranoia can usually work and function in everyday life, however, their lives may be limited and isolated. ”

      Sufferers need help, not condemnation.

      But I question the wisdom of having a sufferer in such a position.

    • repateet 6.2

      A marketing opportunity …

      “Missed out on the Christmas party because you’re scared of going there?”
      Go to the airport, hop on a plane and go to a Christmas party in Hawaii !”

      • Whispering Kate 6.2.1

        Made me think Repateet that the lovely new Pope and the Queen for that matter often ignore security advice and go out and about with the crowds knowing full well the risks they take. That takes courage. Key is seriously full of his own importance, has feelings of the grandiose way out of proportion to his position. I just cannot believe that he is such a such a coward, but then bullies (like his yelling insults and throwing the dead cat regularly in the House etc) are always cowards. He is pathetic.

        • Jenny Kirk

          There’s a fascinating discussion about ShonKey’s personality type – narcisstic or “anti-social” on the post about that creepy Malaysian diplomat and Tania Billingsgate – about halfway down the comments. The discussion is between Emergency Mike, Pat and Anne.

      • RedBaronCV 6.2.2

        Or is he trying to beat up the “danger” so that they can pass laws forcing protestors to register with the police like Cameron has tried in the UK.

    • RedBaronCV 6.3

      Pathetic little bloke
      Well no old style politician would have been that precious. Look what sound bites, brand image and Tv ads have done.
      Once upon a time to get elected you had to go out and actualy interact with the electorate making speechs to crowds etc who gave a lot of immediate feedback some of it thrown. It must have bred a certain resilience and certainly a greater response to the needs of the voters. Couldn’t have imagined any of them minding a few protesters.

      • Draco T Bastard 6.3.1


        Of there’s two aspects to this:

        * Politicians have become disconnected from what happens in the lives of the majority of people
        * The people themselves have become disconnected from what happens in real life due to the protective cocoon that we’ve wound around ourselves that disconnects us from each other and the Earth

        • RedBaronCV

          Yep politics these days seem to be a brand marketing exercise where people shop for the shiny looks of the goods not their utility, usefulness or longevity.
          Key also seems to be subscribing to this if he is afraid of his own electorate,
          can’t be that he sees them very often.

          • Whispering Kate

            No, RedBaronCV, Key is just a wimp good and proper, always has to be seen with a bunch of security compete with the shades on surrounding him, which satisfies his sense of importance and gives him the security blanket he needs. You are right, once upon a time, politicians spoke in open spaces, on stages etc and just got on with the job. They were “men” in the nicest sense and had guts. He sounded so petulant on the news this morning I couldn’t believe it, like a grizzly kid who needs a belt around the backside, but even that is outlawed these days. He is seriously flawed and if the males of NZ who routinely keep voting him in haven’t seen through this useless heap of a PM, then they are as useless as he is.

            • RedBaronCV

              Could you imagine say Mabel Howard the first woman MP gojng on like Key has.

              • Whispering Kate

                Grown up men who are truly secure and comfortable in their own person will own up to their mistakes or at least admit there is room for improvement – especially when they are the supposedly leader and are there to set an example. Key’s automatic response when he is asked awkward questions is to fudge or get nasty and throw a dead cat, even worse just deny it and keep on denying it even when its obvious to an idiot there has been a misjudgment or mistake made. People like him are truly not well and shouldn’t be in positions of power. I agree, some of the questions “Does the Minister stand by…” just ask for his type of response, they could may be just ask “Can the Minister please explain why ……” and persist and make sure he does reply. The sooner Carter leaves his role as Speaker the better for democracy. The both of them just put Government into bad repute for the rest of the world to see.

    • Hami Shearlie 6.4

      We all saw what a craven little creep he was on the day Parliament was sitting, and a man threatened to jump from the Public Gallery – other MPs were looking up in horror, hoping security would get to the man in time – what did Key do? Looked up and then ran away with his guards. So very embarrassing to have a PM that cowardly!

    • adam 6.5

      21 give or take protesters, and Key freaks out.

      Man of the people.

    • North 6.6

      Pretty rich of the simpering little prick Key to mutter on about thugs and bullies…….


      He who repeatedly harrassed and assaulted a young woman in her place of work…….while his oh so macho goon squad looked on.

      You’d never bring your kids up to behave like this entitled little prat.

    • Amanda Atkinson 6.7

      stop exaggerating … “a great majority won’t be even able to have a Christmas meal” .. is a ridiculous statement. Ridiculous exaggerations like this are really unhelpful. It leads to middle NZ raising their eye brows, and not taking this serious issue, seriously. If you want. Kiwis to believe we have poverty, and yes, we do, then stop fucken exaggerating how bad it is, and turning people off from it.

    • infused 6.8

      Did you see the rabid rent a mob crowd? I wouldn’t go there either.

    • Paul 6.9

      And fanboy Rawden no doubt sympathised with the poor dear.

  6. Skinny 7

    Just wondering if Bill English and David Carter are the owners of the company that brings in the 1080?

    I see it being a topic on various FB feeds.

    • millsy 7.1

      As far as I know, 1080 is distributed by Animal Control Products, a small SOE carved out of the old MAF in 1991.

    • Cricklewood 7.2

      No they are not, it’s an SOE and they are the shareholding ministers. The story seems to crop up at least once a year and runs wild amongst those that don’t understand the concept of a shareholding minister.

    • infused 7.3

      various FB feeds being the I HATE JOHN KEY pages. Yes.

  7. Morrissey 9

    A morning with Hosking, then Leighton Smith, with Danny Watson to follow.
    Other stations have their problems, but without a doubt NewstalkZB is THE worst.

    NewstalkZB, Monday 7 December 2015, 7:40a.m.

    MIKE “KING OF CONTRA” HOSKING: Later on I’ll be talking to a professor who says that if kids don’t read over the summer holidays, then they come back to school for the new year knowing LESS than they did before. I’ve always thought our schools need SHORTER summer holidays….. [drones on pompously and sententiously for several minutes]….

    Like anyone with an IQ above room temperature, I switched Hosking off before he had worked up those observations into another of his foaming anti-teacher tirades. By chance, however, I happened on NewstalkZB an hour later. Incredibly, the intellectual level had sunk even lower….

    LEIGHTON SMITH: Ahhhhhmmm, errrrrrr, I see the government has just given two hundred million dollars to South Pacific nations [snort] to “help them cope with climate change.” [guffaw] That fictitious, fraudulent thing. Two hundred million dollars, a WASTE OF MONEY. Ummmmm, errrrrrr, ahhhhhhmmmmm…..

    POINT TO PONDER: One of NewstalkZB’s promotional tags used to be: “Tune Your Mind.”

    More wit and wisdom from Hosking, Smith, and their colleagues….

    Open mike 20/01/2015

    • Northsider 9.1

      Thanks you for performing such a critical role. Like the Lavatory Attendant you perform a role which we all know is necessary but which we would not volunteer to do ourselves.

      I occasionally tune-in to these arseholes for a few difficult minutes in order to maintain my right to slag them legitimately.

  8. Northsider 10

    Claire Trevett’s opinion piece “Coded messages go back and forth in reshuffle” contains a terrible allegation about Andrew Little which he needs to clear up.

    It is effectively saying the Cunliffe’s shafting was Annette King’s price to give up her Rongotai seat for Andrew Little.

    What other Faustian pacts get made in our Labour Party Caucus? No wonder they fought so hard to deny the membership a say in the selection of leader.

    Can we drop talented people, promote unsuitable people, and expect to win the respect of the public?


    • Colonial Viper 10.1

      Labour is not just no longer fit for purpose; it has utterly forgotten what that purpose even is.

  9. ianmac 11

    I know NBI has come up before but I still find it interesting. The adult population of Finland is about the same as NZ. The fish-hooks are considered in this article as well. eg A woman with 3 kids versus a woman with no kids?
    Every person or every adult?
    The Finnish government is currently drawing up plans to introduce a national basic income. A final proposal won’t be presented until November 2016, but if all goes to schedule, Finland will scrap all existing benefits and instead hand out €800 ($870) per month—to everyone.

    It sounds far-fetched, but it’s looking likely that Finland will carry through with the idea. Whereas several Dutch cities will introduce basic income next year and Switzerland is holding a referendum on the subject, there is strongest political and public support for the idea in Finland.”

  10. Draco T Bastard 12

    Good news: Bananas aren’t going extinct. Bad news: They are in trouble

    While it has not yet reached Latin America, experts say that it’s not a question of if, but when. The spores live in the soil and are able to travel in the wooden pallets used to load containers. Peter said, “You can be pretty sure that given the globalized economy, it’s just a matter of time.” And even after the spores have been treated with compounds as aggressive as methyl bromide (which essentially sterilizes the soil), they still come back. The lack of curative and preventative means has inspired a mass fear of banana extinction.

    Globalisation: Just so fucking things up as what used to pass as a localised phenomenon gets passed around due to commercial imperatives.

    • Gosman 12.1

      Without Globalisation you would neither know about nor care what happened to Bananas in Latin America.

      • Draco T Bastard 12.1.1

        The big concern with the Avian flu was that it could transmute into a global pandemic because of the ease with which people span the globe every day. The same applies to our food source.

        You, as per normal with RWNJs, focussed solely upon the object mentioned and failed to understand that the concern extends beyond that one thing.

        • Tc

          That would require cognitive ability. Gossie blows a mean dog whistle and parrots along with the best which is the RWNJ mandatory minimum.

        • Tc

          That would require cognitive ability. Gossie blows a mean dog whistle and parrots along with the best which is the RWNJ mandatory minimum.

      • millsy 12.1.2

        It depends what globalisation you want to happen.

        If it is a globalisation of ideas, and information then we are all for it, but unfortunately, we look to be seeing the globalisation of Indonesian level labour law and environmental regulations.

      • Paul 12.1.3

        Contributions like that only reinforce stats that NZ is the most ignorant nation.

      • Puddleglum 12.1.4

        Hi Gosman,

        Along similar lines: ‘Without slavery you would neither know about nor care what happened to the modern global capitalist market economy (so stop criticising slavery).”

        If you’re interested in the historical basis of that statement try these links:

        Here, here, here and here.

  11. savenz 13

    Stop TPP, TTIP, TiSA
    REGISTER 4 CALL: http://bit.ly/1NB7M8J
    Sun Dec 6, 4:30pm Pacific/7:30 pm Eastern

    “As COP21 continues in Paris, ostensibly to prevent the largest crisis of our time, the Obama administration is embarking on a spin campaign in an attempt to sell the benefits of the TPP both to Congress and the people. Yet, the TPP fails, in its 5,600 pages, to reference the words climate change even once. And the newly Wiki-leaked Trade in Services Agreement or TiSA, Environmental Chapter, proves that multinationals have no intention of working to prevent the looming climate disaster.”
    — National TPP Team

    ~ William Waren, Trade Policy Analyst, Friends of the Earth
    ~ Dr. Frank Ackerman, principal economist at Synapse Energy Economics

    The call will begin with legislative and strategy updates from the TPP Team.

  12. savenz 14

    Breaking: Our boats have caught up with the BBC Shanghai aka “rust-bucket” carrying nuclear waste back to Australia. http://act.gp/1lDkYU6

    Seeing as the government won’t tell us what’s going on, Greenpeace activists are documenting the waste’s arrival – from out at sea all the way to Lucas Heights.

    Follow ‪#‎dodgyWaste‬ on Twitter @greenpeaceaustp

  13. Rosie 15

    Huge massive big ups to SAFE and Farmwatch on their work in exposing cruelty in the dairy industry and taking it global.

    Some time ago, I don’t know when as I no sense of timing, John Darroch of Farmwatch put up a guest post on TS about footage he obtained of the inhumane conditions on pig farms, which, like the recent dairying video also include workers abusing the animals.

    He had meetings with MPI to discuss the matter but was dissatisfied with their lack of follow through.

    It is hardly surprising then, that SAFE felt compelled to take their campaign to the next level and take out ads in The Guardian to expose cruel farm practices to UK consumers of our products. It was the only way they could get our government and industry to listen and act.

    But what do they do instead? They defend the dairy industry and shoot the messenger. Andrew Hoggard from Federated Farmers seems to think it’s a vegan conspiracy:


    While Nathan Guy brushes the issue off and says it’s just a minority of farmers behaving badly, as if that makes it ok, and that he was disappointed with SAFE, as if they are the ones committing violent and cruel abuses. (RNZ this a.m) Both the industry have been blatant in their single minded concern for protecting farmers economic prospects while absolutely failing to address the issue.

    It’s only because of the hard work of activists over the decades that NZer’s have any awareness of the cruelty of battery farming and can buy free range chicken, eggs and pig at the supermarket.
    Exposing the cruelty within the dairy industry was inevitable and a natural progression from the battery farming issues. The industry and government are talking like this whole thing is going to blow over.

    Lets hope it doesn’t. Lets hope this is only the beginning.

    Kia Kaha SAFE and Farmwatch.

    • Draco T Bastard 15.1


    • Chooky 15.2

      +100 Rosie…it was sickening…and it deserves international coverage…this is far worse than the milk botulism scare

    • b waghorn 15.3

      Here’s an interesting take on some of the causes of animal abuse.

      I personally think its good that the bad eggs are weeded out of the farming industry ,but think dragging the whole industry through the muck in an international attack is counter productive.
      I also wonder how many lefties would be happy to have spy cameras set up to trap them in some sort of wrong doing?

      • Draco T Bastard 15.3.1

        I personally think its good that the bad eggs are weeded out of the farming industry ,but think dragging the whole industry through the muck in an international attack is counter productive.

        Farming has been self-regulated for awhile now and so we actually do have to drag the whole lot of them through the muck so as to incentivise the good ones to do something about the bad ones. Unfortunately, most of them don’t believe that they have any responsibility for the bad ones and so nothing will continue to happen.

        Much better just to drop the delusion that industries will self-regulate and put in some decent regulation and over-watch.

      • Ergo Robertina 15.3.2

        That’s a nice thought provoking piece by Chris Perley, although family farms could be rough and cruel as well. It sounds like his father was a good man.
        Family farms are superior to the corporate model. The money that’s flooded the rural sector, increasing the number of multi-farms in the past decade, has in my view exacerbated the existing lack of professionalism and lack of feeling for the land and animals among a large portion of NZ rural people. This is about more than a few bad eggs.
        Globalisation and modern media methods are highlighting it. Expect more exposes of this type. Loss of export markets is the only thing many of these guys understand, so I support it. And if lefties are abusing animals I’d expect them to be held to account as well.

        The Australian writer Don Watson calls farming ”measured violence”; which is a good description for what even with best practice is a cruel business.

    • ianmac 15.4

      In this morning interview the calf defenders kept saying that SAFE should have handed the info over at the first chance instead of going public. Well they did hand over months ago, and MPI (?) did nothing. In the TV slot on”Sunday”, the MPI chap kept on refusing to say what if any action they had taken when they were given the info a long time ago. They had done nothing. Even the farmer featured had not been approached by anyone from MPI.
      Key taught them well to deny, avoid, bluster.

  14. Gangnam Style 16

    “Frankie Boyle summed up my misgivings when he tweeted about Wednesday’s Commons debate: “Kind of disturbed by the palpable excitement in parliament. The truth is our politicians like wars because they make them feel important.”” – Who can forget Keys agitated puffed up “Get some guts” moment,


    • joe90 16.1

      Palestinian and expelled UAE resident Iyad El-Baghdadi –

      Iyad El-Baghdadi

      If the local population switches from seeing ISIS as occupiers to seeing them as protectors, we have a huge, huge problem. @comomx32010

      Iyad El-Baghdadi ‏@iyad_elbaghdadi 22h22 hours ago Ulu Langat, Selangor

      And I believe that ISIS wants to be bombed precisely because of this. It plans on it. And the world obliges. @comomx32010

  15. Gosman 17


    Interesting take on the situation in Venezuela where the ruling Socialists could lose their majority in the Congressional elections held yesterday/today.

    I note how the writer blames the fact that the Chavista regime has being to accomodating towards opponents and that is why it is in the mess that it is in. This is why hard left wing political thought is a threat to democracy. The hard left wants to destroy and supporess anything that it perceives to be a threat.

    • Lanthanide 17.1

      “This is why extremist political thought is a threat to democracy. Political idealogues want to destroy and suppress anything that they perceive to be a threat.”


      Reminds me of how this National government shut down TVNZ 7 and have a deliberate funding freeze on RNZ.

    • Morrissey 17.2

      Gosman, you are utterly ignorant. Why do you not do some reading?

      And for pity’s sake, stop believing everything you hear on Fox News.

  16. News just out.

    Key replaces Lotu-liga with Collins.
    Little replaces Cosgrove with Cunliffe

    • Chooky 18.1

      so what does that mean for Cunliffe?…he is still pretty low down on the list ( not good management for Labour’s best and brightest…most able and popular…Little is running scared)

      …i would still like to see Cunliffe jump ship and Manaia Mahuta with the Maori seats

      …and I would still like to see a real Labour Mana Party…instead of the tepid thing we have

    • Colonial Viper 18.2

      Little replaces Cosgrove with Cunliffe

      This is a joke, right?

      • Bill Drees 18.2.1

        Sadly yes. Seemly Key us his own man and is comfortable with having complex and interesting people working in his team. Sadly Little had his team dictated to him by the ABCs according to TRP.

        • te reo putake

          “Sadly Little had his team dictated to him by the ABCs according to TRP.”

          If the TRP you are referring to is me, you’re barking up the wrong tree, because I’ve never said that. And the reason I’ve never said it is because it’s not true. Little is his own man and he’s done a great job of getting a dysfunctional, back biting caucus back on track. Something Goff, Shearer and Cunliffe never managed.

          I appreciate there will always be some people who will always prefer to see Labour failing, but do try and keep up. Like Cunliffe, the ABCers are yesterday’s news.

          • Chooky

            “Like Cunliffe, the ABCers are yesterday’s news”…really ?

            maybe it is little Labour that is yesterday’s news? ( Little just shows himself to be, at very least, a poor manager)

            …Cunliffe and Mahuta bringing in the Maori seats were Labour’s hope

            Didnt Boag support Little as Leader?

            • Hami Shearlie

              A caucus who tries to get rid of someone as talented and gifted as David Cunliffe is liable to be looked upon with some derision – I mean, how much real talent and political ability does this Labour Party Caucus possess at the moment? The wishes of members of the Labour Party seem to be ignored. And the caucus wonder why there is no money in the kitty?

          • Bill Drees

            24 November 2014 at 9:05 am
            Cheers, weka and karol. I think the problem with some of the comments around the deputy’s position is the ignorance about the process. Little can certainly nominate someone, but it’s a caucus decision, not his. And the numbers in caucus have not significantly changed; the ‘ABCers’ are still the biggest camp. They showed that by dumping Cunliffe’s chosen whips at the first opportunity.

            Thus Spoke TRP.


            • te reo putake

              Yep, that’s the deputy’s position. Now for the evidence that I said Little had his team dictated to him by the ABCers. Nah, you’re not going to be able do that, eh?

              The fact is that Little chose his shadow cabinet.

              • 1. You stated that the ABCers are the biggest camp.
                2. You stated that they can choose the Deputy, no matter who Little wants.
                3. If they can dictate the Deputy and are the biggest camp ergo they can dictate the other positions.

                • Chooky

                  TRP still waiting for your answer to Bill Drees…looks like he has you snookered

                  in the meantime …here is how the vote went


                  • Colonial Viper

                    Little has one shot at being Labour Leader. If Little loses the election in 2017, Grant Robertson will be leader within weeks

                    • Chooky

                      …and if Grant Robertson becomes leader …bye bye Labour Party grassroots voter appeal …maybe this is the end game ?

                      he cant even win his own seat , nor can jacinda Adern and nor can Andrew Little

                    • Colonial Viper

                      If I pick it right, “Labour grassroots appeal” is already mostly over.

                    • Chooky

                      Time for a new grassroots real Labour Party

                  • Chooky, I have a life. I’ve been out, as it happens, and even if I wasn’t, I answer if and when when I fucken well feel like it, not according to your agenda. Bill’s comments are full of shit. The shadow cabinet was chosen by Little as is his right.

                    I never said what Bill claimed I did, and what he claimed about caucus selecting the shadow cabinet was wrong in fact anyway and the that’s the end of that story.

                    Bill fucked up out of ignorance. What’s your excuse?

                • Bill, if you want to talk shit, you really need to do some research first. I’d say you really should start by looking up the rules of the Labour party. The deputies position is voted on by caucus, but you’ll note they voted to endorse the person Little preferred. Secondly, the shadow positions are Little’s choice, as I said. You’ll note that there hasn’t been a skerrick of dissent about it, even from DC, who has taken the demotion with considerable good grace.

          • Northsider

            As I said earlier….
            7 December 2015 at 9:16 am
            Claire Trevett’s opinion piece “Coded messages go back and forth in reshuffle” contains a terrible allegation about Andrew Little which he needs to clear up.

            It is effectively saying the Cunliffe’s shafting was Annette King’s price to give up her Rongotai seat for Andrew Little.

            What other Faustian pacts get made in our Labour Party Caucus? No wonder they fought so hard to deny the membership a say in the selection of leader.

            Can we drop talented people, promote unsuitable people, and expect to win the respect of the public?


            Claire Trevett effectively is saying Little is not his own man, that Auntie Annette has him by the short and curlies.

            IMHO when the time is right Auntie will kill off Little and finally. oh finally, have her dear Grant installed in his rightful possie.

            • Chooky

              +100…interesting article …and this is the crux imo …”What other Faustian pacts get made in our Labour Party Caucus? No wonder they fought so hard to deny the membership a say in the selection of leader.

              Can we drop talented people, promote unsuitable people, and expect to win the respect of the public?”

              Good questions…This Labour Party seems to defy all common sense….and it looks corrupt, taken over by hostile forces, or at very least expedient and ruthless….

              It would be very interesting if someone broke ranks and spilt the beans…or better still jumped ship …or forced the ABCs to walk the plank

              ( Cunliffe as Hamlet?: “The time is out of joint. O cursed spite, that ever I was born to set it right.”)

              • Northsider

                “…or forced the ABCs to walk the plank.”
                To quote the great Orace himself, the well informed TRP, ” the ABCers are yesterday’s news.”
                That suggests that, with Cunliffe shafted, the ABCers ARE the Labour Party. Grant and Annette own the shop.
                Using TRPs analysis, factionalism is gone and he Labour Party is unified. The erstwhile Right, Cosgrove, Shearer, Nash, O’Connor, have accepted (bought off) the new status quo. The Neo-liberals have won. Time to break bread with Roger Douglas.

                All this assumes the membership will be pliant.

                My thoughts keep going back the sights of Little and Hipkins screaming at the membership during the Ellersli Conference. That was the day unions and the members voted for 40: 40: 20.

                • Olwyn

                  I am not an uncritical ‘my party right or wrong” commentator, but I want to suggest a possible, more positive scenario. For one thing, Labour cannot continue with the kind of centrism that they tried to sell us under Shearer. That approach is exhausted, if it had legs to begin with. Secondly, you cannot intrigue and dissemble your way through an infinite number of elections – if Labour doesn’t reverse the downward trend then getting to be the next leader will hardly be a prize.

                  This means that the dominant factions are now in the position where they must show their mettle, or get out of the way if they lack it. And if the sidelined Cunliffeites can manage to bite the bullet and put their weight behind winning, then we will at least end up with a larger Labour caucus, possibly even a Labour government. Either result would dilute factional pressures and hold people to task. I am far from happy about the insult to David Cunliffe – I am just suggesting that Little may yet make a virtue of necessity. If he doesn’t, it will mean another nail in Labour’s coffin rather than an opportunity for some eager beaver.

  17. Gosman 19

    Another revealing insight in to the mind of the hard left.


    ‘“Right now we’re in an economic war. Private companies hide food, or don’t produce food. To try to change the minds of us Chavistas, revolutionaries. They want to change our ideology. But us, we want to continue with the revolution,” Acosta concluded.’

    The idea that Private companies have decided to lose money by deliberately stopping food getting to market just so that they can influence people’s political viewpoint. It highlights a degree of paranoia and disconect from reality which is astounding.

  18. Morrissey 20

    Pity poor Matthew Hooton: this morning he suffered nightmarish flashbacks to
    being shown up and put down by Matthew Campbell and Laila Harré.

    Politics from the Left and from the Right, RNZ National, Monday 7 December 2015
    Kathryn Ryan, Matthew Hooton, Stephen Mills

    What a welcome replacement Stephen Mills is for that zombie Mike Williams! He did not once guffaw sycophantically at one of Hooton’s remarks, nor did he say: “I agree with Matthew”. Even better, he countered and refuted every single thing Hooton said, to Hooton’s evident discomfit.

    Right near the end, after Hooton had claimed that New Zealand had set the agenda at the Paris climate talks, Mills said: “So John Key has saved the planet, has he?” Hooton, taken aback, was silent for a considerable time before scrambling with a platitudinous response.

    Mills’ refusal to be cowered by Hooton’s antics even rubbed off on Kathryn Ryan, who actually found the courage to challenge Hooton’s statements herself, and to point out that his views represented no one but himself.

    At the end, instead of Hooton finishing with a five-minute lecture, as he usually does when Williams is on the program, he had to listen to Stephen Mills delivering the last word—-Mills said the National Party’s climate “policy” was “dismal and cynical”.

    Hooton. demoralised, didn’t have the heart or the wherewithal to shout anything incendiary, as he would have to Mike Williams.

    ANOTHER NIGHTMARE FLASHBACK: An unpleasant experience for Hooton came on Bastille Day this year, when he had to endure the no-nonsense Lynn Freeman as host of the program…..

    Open mike 14/07/2015

  19. Draco T Bastard 21

    River stance

    Referencing monitoring reports and studies that normally lie beyond the public gaze in scholarly journals and the archives of regional councils, Niwa and other crown research institutes (CRIs), the essay is effectively a Mike Joy “state of the environment” report – one that paints a far bleaker picture than the official version published a month ago by the Ministry for the Environment.

    Of 112 monitored lakes, a 2010 Niwa study found 44% are eutrophic – so burdened by excess agricultural nutrients that they have become murky, smelly and inhospitable to many fish, reports Joy. Almost all (90%) our lowland wetlands – the “kidneys of our waterways” – have been destroyed. Three-quarters of our native freshwater fish are threatened with extinction (up from 20% in the early 1990s), yet only one – the grayling, which has been extinct for decades – has legal protection.

    Digging through the data on more than 300 monitored river sites, he reports that more than two-thirds of those surrounded by farmland exceed Australasian guidelines for nitrogen levels in water, beyond which aquatic life starts to be affected. That’s up from 40% in 1990. Phosphorous – the other key agricultural pollutant, carried into rivers by soil erosion – exceeds guidelines in most intensively farmed areas (although levels have been slowly falling since the late 1990s).

    And then there are the tiny creatures whose presence signals the well-being of rivers – invertebrates such as mayflies and stoneflies, which are measured by the Macro­invertebrate Community Index (MCI). Niwa has mapped MCI scores around the country, painting in red where low insect life denotes serious pollution: the map burns bright red throughout the intensively farmed regions of Canterbury, Southland, Auckland, ­Waikato and Taranaki.

    Clean and Green? Not bloody likely.

  20. adam 22

    The housing crisis Auckland is under supplied by 31, 000 odd houses. Joy, no wonder people are living in garages.

    Good bless our middle class and their complete disconnect from reality on this issue.


    • savenz 22.1

      Since migration is running at over 60,000 per year currently with no abatement, not quite sure what the middle class are supposed to do about it?

      It is government policy that is putting the strain on housing and rentals!!!

      And the government is selling off the state houses???

      And the undemocratic SHA’s are being used to speculate with and profit from with only a fraction of houses being built so far and not aimed at Kiwis on local wages, more like over $800,000…

      Yep, that is the governments idea of affordable housing…

      The government wants you to blame the middle class, poor or who ever, not deliberate government policy to increase house prices by creating demand with immigration or cracking down on monopolies within building (it costs more per square meter to build here than Australia, USA even though we make a lot of the raw materials).

  21. reason 24


    The u.s.a has previously help sponsor and support a military overthrow of the democratically elected government of Venezuela ……… as they have done before in Chile and many other countries ……. like Iran https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d'%C3%A9tat

    The U.s.a has been waging a economic war against Venezuela ever since it elected a socialist Government which brought in things like free health care for the poor ……………. just like it did with Cuba.

    The propaganda then becomes it’s the Venezuelan Governments fault for the pain that the u.s.a and its proxies are inflicting.

    http://johnpilger.com/videos/the-war-on-democracy …….. watch the film and then clearly see Gosmans posts for what they are………. he only has one eye and its an evil one

  22. Draco T Bastard 25

    Rejection of scientific studies in online discusions

    Sometimes the on-line discussion of scientific issues looks like a citation battle. People take sides, battle lines are drawn and struggle commences. Each side fires barrages of citations “proving” their own argument.

    The battle progresses in real-time – the proferred citations are immediately rejected and alternatives offered. One would think the other side would take time out to actually read the offered citations – but no they are usually quickly rejected as unreliable. I also get the impression that in many cases the side offering the citation has also not bothered to read it – usually relying on its use by an ally or its coverage in a friendly on-line magazine.

    OK, it natural to be lazy but wouldn’t we all learn a lot more by actually reading the citations being thrown around. And doesn’t it discredit one’s position to reject a citation out of hand for unjustified reasons?

    The Logic of Science recently posted an analysis of the bad reasons people use for rejecting citations – 12 bad reasons for rejecting scientific studies. It is well worth a read – we will recognise these 12 reasons and hopefully learn not to use them ourselves in future.

    Here are the 12 bad reasons:

    Worth a a read. I’ve seen all 12 on this site used by both the Left and the Right-wing.

  23. The lost sheep 26

    Looks like the people of Venezuela are tired of waiting for the dream..


  24. Puckish Rogue 27


    The Perils of Perception survey shows New Zealand is the most ignorant developed country, with most people misunderstanding the facts that make up our country’s society.

    Kiwis hugely overestimated the proportion of wealth owned by the wealthiest 1 per cent in the country.

    The average response on the percentage of wealth controlled by the wealthiest 1 per cent in New Zealand was 50 per cent. In reality, the wealthiest New Zealanders hold 18 per cent of the country’s wealth.

    Well done to the left in NZ they’ve managed to alter the perception of the public which is no easy thing to do and the top 1% only owning 18% of the wealth…that’s pretty good

  25. Halfcrown 28

    “Looks like the people of Venezuela are tired of waiting for the dream..”

    That is sad as this was the darling cot case the right loved to quote. I enjoyed reading the mythical myopic views Gosman and others from the right took over Venezuela. The standard will never be the same again
    I wonder what Gosman will do now? I suppose he can start giving us a blow by blow tirade of that other cot case, the right wing cot case called the Ukraine.

    • Gosman 28.1

      The Chavista regime is still in power in Venezuela. The Opposition has now gained an extra weapon to fight back against the policies that are ruining that once prosperous nation.

      • Colonial Viper 28.1.1

        In other words, the 1% are shifting the balance back in their favour against the rest of the nation.

        • The lost sheep

          If the shift is anything like the current suggestions CV, it would require quite a significant % of The People to be voting against the Govt. Far more than 1%.

  26. Gosman 29

    To add to TLS comments above :

    Looks like another failed socialist experiment has started to be consigned to the dustbin of history with the opposition MUD coalition winning the election to the National assempbly by a decisive margin.


    If they get over 2/3rds majority (which some are predicting) they can make life very difficult for the Chavista regime.

  27. Morrissey 30

    “Safeguarded eavesdropping by the state is a price we might have to pay for our safety.”—was Max Ritchie’s speech the dumbest in radio history?
    The Panel, RNZ National, Monday 7 December 2015
    Jim Mora, Ali Jones, Max Ritchie

    Just before the 4:30 news, host Jim Mora called for opinions about the SAFE advertisement that appeared in the Guardian yesterday. [1] Predictably, both Ali Jones and Max Ritchie reiterated the Federated Farmers/Fonterra corporate line and upbraided Hans Kriek for not talking enough to farmers and for (according to Ritchie) pushing his vegetarian lifestyle on everyone else. Ritchie should have left his comments at that, but, foolishly, he then went on to quote one of the less respected, crazier people to have appeared on the Panel….

    MAX RITCHIE: I heard on the radio earlier that professor of agriculture that frequently comes on your program, I forget what her name is.

    JIM MORA: Jacqueline Rowarth.

    MAX RITCHIE: That’s the one. Well, she said that our animal welfare standards are the best in the world.

    Ritchie should have carried out due diligence. If he had, he would have quoted someone better than Jacqueline Rowarth, who has established herself alongside such notorious characters as Dov Bing, Ron Smith and Willem de Lange as one of the loopier academics to periodically slither out from under the rock of Waikato University. Jacqueline Rowarth blundered into our line of sight last year, when she came on to assure the Panel that there is no such thing as poverty in New Zealand, that it’s all in the minds of the poor, who actually don’t exist anyway, and that media reports of children without shoes were rubbish: it was nothing more than kids who just didn’t want to wear shoes. [2]

    Endorsing a loopy provincial academic was bad enough, but there was worse to come from Max Ritchie. He announced grandly that his Soapbox piece after the news would be about “freedom”. In fact it turned out to be nothing more than a windy homily about how he is perfectly happy to prostrate himself to the state, which he trusts absolutely to do the right thing: “Safeguarded eavesdropping by the state is a price we might have to pay for our safety,” he intoned. He then went on, speaking as solemnly and as slowly as he could, to state that New Zealand doesn’t have a culture of heavy-handed persecution by the state, and that we could be perfectly confident if we did as he suggested, and surrendered all our rights to politicians and bureaucrats.

    After he finished speaking, there was a pause. Jim Mora does have a tendency to make a glib wisecrack after one of his guests makes such a portentous statement, but this time he was obviously flabbergasted, and said nothing at all in response. Neither did Ali Jones. It was like they were hoping that what had just been said—in essence, “I am happy to be a slave, and so should all of us be happy to be slaves”—was a horrible phantasm, and would vanish into the ether if they just stayed silent.

    Interestingly, five minutes after expressing his confidence in the benevolence of the state, Ritchie indulged in a lengthy whinge about being stopped by the police for speeding on Orakei Road on January 4th this year. “Utterly RIDICULOUS,” he growled, “I am not at ALL convinced that this is an appropriate way of policing!”

    Perhaps Max Ritchie would not enjoy his voluntary enslavement as much as he thinks he would.

    [1] http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/74783076/new-zealand-dairy-cruelty-claims-target-uk-consumer-in-guardian-ad-campaign
    [2] http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-23092014/#comment-895173

    • Macro 30.1

      Yep! Whenever I hear Jacqueline Rowarth on air – I switch off – Why is she always the go to gal whenever they want some input on rural matters? Ok that’s her job – but surely there are others less loopy? She posts on Pundit too from time to time 🙄
      You do a great job for us M, I don’t know how you do it! 🙂

    • Chooky 30.2

      +100 Morrissey…for stripping down what they say and critically examining it

      I also think Prof Rowarth is loopy…and a mouth piece for interests which are not necessarily farmers’

      ….”Waikato University agribusiness professor Jacqueline Rowarth questioned whether New Zealand should be doing business with Russia.

      “We need to be looking carefully at the reasons others have stopped trading with Russia,” she said.

      “We stood up against the Springboks in 1981 because we didn’t like the way people were being treated.”

      Rowarth said New Zealand could experience “short-term gain, long-term pain” from continuing to send dairy products and other food to Russia.

      “There could be repercussions for other trade if we just say we’ll keep selling you our products,” she said..”..


  28. Morrissey 31

    Dutch citizens condemn the brutality and stupidity of the Bible

    Some Dutch people were approached and asked to listen to some passages from the Koran. After being read out some particularly violent and bloodthirsty passages, they expressed some contemptuous opinions about the simpletons who believe in such a vile religion….

    If you’ve been raised with this book and these kinds of thoughts it’s going to influence the way you think.”

    The world is changing and I think they should have to adapt to it.”

    How could anyone believe in this?! That’s unbelievable to me.”

    Trouble is, the passage actually came not from the Koran but from the Bible….


    • Was there some point to the exercise, or was it shits and giggles? I guess one conclusion we could draw is, you’d be completely fucking nuts to have your schools devote large amounts of their teaching time to having kids memorise passages from said book. Good job the Dutch, at least, don’t go in for that…

    • Macro 31.2

      Yep! The bible contains some pretty graphic and sordid passages…
      Which is why a literal reading of it is not recommended.

      • ropata 31.2.1

        +1 totally.

        Matthew Flanagan at mandm.org.nz has done some excellent work on this topic, to show that these violent passages were probably employing hyperbole common in ANE rhetoric/literature of the time, not to be taken literally.

        A big problem with naive readings of these ancient documents is that we bring our 21st century scientific brains to the table and make some basic errors of interpretation. A lot of the narratives are figurative or mythical, conveying moral and spiritual truth, not cold empirical statements like the laws of physics.

        I look at it this way:
        Q: is Led Zep’s “Stairway to Heaven” true or false?
        A: the question is poorly formulated as a song is open to interpretation. It’s art not science.
        So it is with the text of the Bible.

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