Open mike 08/02/2022

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, February 8th, 2022 - 253 comments
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253 comments on “Open mike 08/02/2022 ”

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    • higherstandard 1.1
      8 February 2022 at 7:29 am

      Having dealt with the MoH for around 4 decades I would encourage you not to mistake general incompetence, a lack of governance and general muppetry with straight lying.

      • Sabine 1.1.1
        8 February 2022 at 8:20 am

        I do agree with you, but the lying came straight after the general incompetence, the lack of governancne and general muppetry and then couple that with some high level arrogance and you arrive at the lying because they have been found out to be less the truthful. But maybe they just misspoke? And then is admitting that one 'misspoke' misspeaking?

        In this open letter to the government points to this issue of 'incompetence'.
        https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/sir-ian-taylor-nine-questions-for-the-prime-minister-about-covid-tests-in-nz/KZC73D23IUS5GGLBVEC6CWS54E/
        Point 2 – 5 deals directly with testing requirement and the tools to do so.
        Point 9 – points to the new totally expected variant, Omicron and another question as to why a test developed in Auckland University was not prioritized.

        Maybe that is why the Ministry of Health is so unhappy about that Man speaking his mind, because he told them, asked them, and they ignored him, and now they are found out that a. they are less then truthfull, and b. they confiscate goods because they literally forgot to order -at best, or at worst always planned to confiscate the goods that businesses in NZ have ordered to keep their staff safe.

        And this letter full of questions to the PM was in the Herald on – just in case anyone needed to know how old this article is.
        Sir Ian Taylor – Nine questions for the Prime Minister about Covid tests in NZ
        28 Nov, 2021 02:15 AM

        • Jimmy 1.1.1.1
          8 February 2022 at 8:23 am

          Yep at least Foodstuffs know how to plan and organise. Imagine if the government decided to try and get in on the supermarket duopoly!

    • Jimmy 1.2
      8 February 2022 at 8:15 am

      No surprises. Everyone knows they dropped the ball and didn't order them when advised to. And now they try and muzzle Sir Ian Taylor after he helped them out.

    • Graeme 1.3
      8 February 2022 at 8:27 am

      Well I'm very glad that MOH is exercising it's powers under pandemic legislation and taking these tests out of the hands of private individuals who will end up using them to keep the wheels of commerce turning spread infection.

      This debacle in a retirement village in Melbourne shows the result of business supplying the tests. Generally it will be the cheapest, or most available, which of course will be the least effective, which is why it's cheap and available.

      From the linked article above

      Twin Parks said residents had been tested with two different brands of RATs to confirm their diagnosis, but they provided conflicting results.

      The home has had issues previously, with one email in December highlighting the inaccuracy of the tests.

      "These tests are not particularly reliable, given our positive staff member tested negative on multiple RATs in the last week," it read.

      Australia's health watchdog has received more than 100 complaints about rapid antigen tests, with consumers raising concerns about false positives and negatives, invalid results and missing parts.

      20% inaccuracy in a close contact environment with this is only marginally better than no tests at all. But the RAT result are being used to give the confidence of 100% all clear.

      • Shanreagh 1.3.1
        8 February 2022 at 8:41 am

        Got it in one Graeme. Thank you for your correct reading of the situation.

        I don't understand what the big deal is. The RATs were requisitioned for a public health need greater than the needs of single businesses or families. What is the difference between a requisition of forward orders (ie those on the way) and a requisition of what is held in warehouses in NZ.

        So that the ill-informed above don't have to scratch their heads the answer is 'Nothing'

        Unless those above can show me that the RATS were snatched from the hand of someone about to use them then the pufferies above your post are just mischief making.

        • Gypsy 1.3.1.1
          8 February 2022 at 6:04 pm

          The big deal is that the government sat on its arse while the private sector planned and secured supply, only for it to be stolen requisitioned by the government.

  2. Jimmy 2
    8 February 2022 at 8:20 am

    It is disgusting the lengths you have to go to, to get an exemption out of MIQ or even a MIQ spot. Where is the kindness?

    The Taliban were kinder to the pregnant reporter than our government, now this bloke has to go on a hunger strike to see his dying father!

    'We won': Nil-by-mouth striker confirmed he will be let out to see dying dad | Stuff.co.nz

    • Graeme 2.1
      8 February 2022 at 8:33 am

      So he got out of MIQ early because he met the criteria, of because of the histrionics?

      • gsays 2.1.1
        8 February 2022 at 8:37 am

        Following on from the embarrassing episode of Charlotte Bellis, I would suggest it is because we have become aware of his situation.

        Something about light being a good disinfectant.

        • Graeme 2.1.1.1
          8 February 2022 at 8:55 am

          Or people in very stressful situations often don't read or comprehend instructions as well as they might when a bit less stressed.

          I've had to deal with people in similar situations, it's hard and careful work, and really wonder how I would go if it was me.

      • Sabine 2.1.2
        8 February 2022 at 8:40 am

        I guess having a dude die of a hunger strike in MIQ would again make this government look less then kind, friendly, helpful and such. You know it would make them look callous, heartless, disinterested and so on and so forth.

        How dare that young man do what he did, does he not know that he has a place and that place is to be neither seen nor heard. Damn, we need a better class of peasants in this country, the current lot seems to be getting a bit uppity.

      • Shanreagh 2.1.3
        8 February 2022 at 8:45 am

        Probably now finally made an application that met the requirements and that the decision makers were able to make a decision on.

    • Robert Guyton 2.2
      8 February 2022 at 8:49 am

      Jimmy – a question: how many people have won a MIQ spot so far, and what lengths did they all have to go to to get those spots, d'ya know?

      • Sabine 2.2.1
        8 February 2022 at 8:52 am

        Not enough Robert Guyton. That is the problem. Not enough people have won the lottery, but then not everyone has the excellent odds of a Labour MP who participates once in such a Lottery and gets to Holiday in the Netherlands during their Omicron outbreak.

        • Robert Guyton 2.2.1.1
          8 February 2022 at 8:54 am

          "Not enough" isn't a number – any idea of the actual figure (you know, fact)?

          Jimmy must know.

          • Sabine 2.2.1.1.1
            8 February 2022 at 12:11 pm

            Why don't you write a nice little letter to the government on behalf of Jimmy an ask?

            To me it is simple, to much lorde, wiggles, america boaties,. djs, and tv stars and not enough people whose parents are dying, or whose children may be needing healthcare or pregnant woman who would like to give birth in their home country.

            • Robert Guyton 2.2.1.1.1.1
              8 February 2022 at 12:27 pm

              I figured you, or Jimmy, would know the number, given that it must stand for something. If it was "3", I'd be with you in protesting, but if it was a substantial, significant or explainable number well north of 3, I'd wonder if you'd (both) done your research.

              • Sabine …
                8 February 2022 at 12:29 pm

                well why don't you google it? Or at the very least break down what you want to know.

                For example we know that many pregnant women have applied to come to NZ to give birth, all but 10% were declined, or gave up.

                Seriously, do you own homework. And then answer Jimmi.

            • aom 2.2.1.1.1.2
              8 February 2022 at 1:17 pm

              So lets get this straight Sabine, you believe that after selflessly making sacrifices to get the country 'Covid-fit", that was not enough. How many permanent NZ residents missed out on being able to share family time and in many cases to grieve as they wanted?

              That wasn't enough. You feel entitled to complain and bemoan that fact that there were 'imports' who provided light relief and, heaven forbid, entertainment for children. Hope you have enjoyed the grandstanding antics of the self-entitled who seemingly couldn't complete application forms correctly and believed they should be able to enter the at will, even though they had chosen to live and work elsewhere.

              • Sabine …
                9 February 2022 at 8:28 am

                You are right, i am totally within my rights to have my own mind.

              • Puckish Rogue …
                9 February 2022 at 8:32 am

                'and believed they should be able to enter the at will, even though they had chosen to live and work elsewhere.'

                Maybe because they should be able to.

                https://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1990/0109/latest/whole.html#DLM225517

                18Freedom of movement

                • (1)Everyone lawfully in New Zealand has the right to freedom of movement and residence in New Zealand.

                  (2)Every New Zealand citizen has the right to enter New Zealand.

                  (3)Everyone has the right to leave New Zealand.

                  (4)No one who is not a New Zealand citizen and who is lawfully in New Zealand shall be required to leave New Zealand except under a decision taken on grounds prescribed by law.

      • Jimmy 2.2.2
        8 February 2022 at 1:23 pm

        I have no idea of the number that have actually "won" a spot in MIQ but for a person here at work it was quite difficult and involved refreshing a computer page for several hours over numerous days to then be told there were no more spots available for their wife to return before Xmas. They finally got back in January but were trying from late October. Unfortunately she was not a DJ, but was visiting a dying relative so I guess she should have watched them die via video link like the Irish bloke did rather than travel in a Pandemic.

        If you have a NZ passport and are double jabbed and get a negative test before travel it would be nice to be able to return home rather than become stateless.

        • Poission 2.2.2.1
          8 February 2022 at 1:32 pm

          Over half of all NZ current cases are in MIQ and were stopped at the border.All of these people flew with a mandatory negative test.

      • Matiri 2.2.3
        8 February 2022 at 2:58 pm

        A friend of mine has been through MIQ three times so far as he runs a business in the States, didn't find it hard to get the slots he wanted using the normal process. Up until recently MIQ bookings seem to have been working well but hey, that doesn't fit Sabine's narrative.

        PS Not sure I agree with the ethics of him using MIQ in this way though. He is in the States at the moment.

    • Patricia Bremner 2.3
      8 February 2022 at 2:12 pm

      To be fair, he had to do 5 days or he could have killed his father even earlier.

      He would though, have been able to spend those days with his dad.

      Logic is missing here? MBIE too formulaic?

      Remembering they now know how soon omicron is infectious yet does not show up for 5 or more days.

      These staff are having to make harrowing choices every day, nobody has talked about their trauma and responsibility to apply the rules there to protect us.

      This appears to be another case using the promotion of media.

      Our Borders have helped control the spread, so stories need to be found for clicks and to make the Government appear "less than kind".

      I hope his dad has some time with him, and I hope journalists allow them to do that in peace.

      • aj 2.3.1
        8 February 2022 at 6:24 pm

        It's also worth noting that if we had opened the borders, as National and ACT have been suggesting almost the entire pandemic, many thousands of elderly and/or ill kiwis would be dead, possibly quite suddenly, and before relatives could get home.

    • aj 2.4
      8 February 2022 at 2:23 pm

      It is disgusting the lengths you have to go to, to get an exemption out of MIQ or even a MIQ spot. Where is the kindness?

      My son in law booked one of many free MIQ slots in early December, so he could travel to Canada and return in early February. Just finished his stint in MIQ.

      You never hear the success stories from the over 200,000 returnees through MIQ. Almost all people coming through accept MIQ has been an essential part of protecting New Zealand and don't complain or make a song and dance about it.

      Thank you to everyone who has been involved in MIQ.

      • Robert Guyton 2.4.1
        8 February 2022 at 2:32 pm

        And thank you, aj, for providing a figure (over 200,000) where others couldn't/wouldn't.

        Puts the griping in perspective, that figure.

      • alwyn 2.4.2
        8 February 2022 at 2:35 pm

        DJ is he?

      • Shanreagh 2.4.3
        8 February 2022 at 11:48 pm

        Friends son & daughter in law and two children applied ad got a six week stay mid Dec/late Jan, pre school son and new born. No probs getting their dates as they were not fixated on being here for Christmas. .

        I know parents who have said don't come back if there is sickness at home at the time of Covid. .

        I know my Dad said to me before I left several times to go overseas (he died in 1993 so before that) that he and Mum would not expect us to return if sick and really not to bother at all if they died suddenly. People who emigrated earlier and some even now who have arrived here as refugees, had/have no chance.

        I do know of one case that went very smoothly as the process had been set in train to return as early as it could……set in train by completing the right forms and supplying the required info.

        I think our public servants and the MIQ people have done a great job.

  3. Peter 3
    8 February 2022 at 8:31 am

    Copycat protests, same mentality:

    “Never mind what the rest of the world thinks; the situation has jarred and jangled millions of Canadians. But those who were caught off guard by the intensity, passion and adamance of the protesters have clearly not been paying attention to the creeping extremism in this country’s political discourse, fertilized in recent years by American political rhetoric, misinformation online and a sense of alienation among a significant segment of the population.

    The parallels to U.S. politics don’t stop there. While Canadians have been consuming news from down south since the dawn of broadcasting, the American right appears to be speaking directly to them now. On Friday, Trump endorsed the convoy on social media, referring to Trudeau as a “far left lunatic who has destroyed Canada with insane Covid mandates” and urging the protesters to come to Washington, D.C.

    And just weeks ago, a public opinion study found that nearly 30 percent of voters who cast a ballot for the Conservative Party of Canada in September’s national elections said the Jan. 6 attacks on Capitol Hill were “a fiction created by the media.”

    https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/truckers-canada-protesting-covid-vaccine-mandates-show-canada-s-trumpists-ncna1288679

    • Sabine 3.1
      8 February 2022 at 8:48 am

      You know what that shows? That neither the left nor the right believes much of what comes out from the News and the Media. Case in point, we have a post here talking about how a particular media company is out to get the government.

      Maybe we need to cancel free media, and only allow state media. We could call it Pravda.

      Pravda – Wikipedia

      "Truth" is a Russian broadsheet newspaper, formerly the official newspaper of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, when it was one of the most …

    • Shanreagh 3.2
      8 February 2022 at 8:53 am

      Yes the embarrassing fiasco yesterday when the South Island contingent could not board the ferry and asked for small boats to get them across the Strait in 2m swells ……the Trumper flags and Voices for Freedumb and the more militant Groundswell people shows us that this is not a voice from the roots.

      It is just a rebrand of those who demonstrated at parliament a few months ago..

      I know I put this link up yesterday but I am certain that behind this will be much the same as in Canada and well meaning people will have been duped.

      https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/2000247363674

      • Peter 3.2.1
        8 February 2022 at 11:55 am

        Are you serious about people not being able to board the ferry in Picton and wanting small boats to take them across the Strait? That being so would show the special kind of dumb we're dealing with.

        • McFlock 3.2.1.1
          8 February 2022 at 12:00 pm

          I have no idea whether it was true or not, but it gave me the best laugh I've had in weeks.

          The twitter tag was "#Dumbkirk" laugh

        • Nic the NZer 3.2.1.2
          8 February 2022 at 12:32 pm

          A UK version instigated a protest at the BBC studios planning to disrupt the news. However, the BBC had operationally vacated these premises only 6 years earlier, for central London.

          I thought at the time there was a serious protest risk created as their news segment includes sweeping shots of the new building including areas accessible to poorly vetted contractors.

          But it appears the protest group left all their research up to a small number of people who don't regularly watch TV news.

  4. gsays 4
    8 February 2022 at 8:42 am

    Less about the Trump angle, my reckons have a lot round here underestimating the numbers and enthusiasm involved in our own convoy.

    Just labelling them and popping them in the 'anti-vax' box does not make them go away.
    More and more we are hearing from fully vaccinated people denigrating the mandates and the unnecessarily discriminatory passports.

    • Sabine 4.1
      8 February 2022 at 8:50 am

      fully vaccinated people denigrating the mandates and the unnecessarily discriminatory passports.

      this is the issue.

    • Robert Guyton 4.2
      8 February 2022 at 8:52 am

      The people down south, organising/promoting the convoy, were the anti-vaxx, protesting with placards, won't wear a mask crowd. They tried to restrict messaging to "anti-mandate" only, but that blew out into "anti-everything" and the usual misogynistic etc. messaging as soon as the wheels started rolling.

      • Shanreagh 4.2.1
        8 February 2022 at 8:59 am

        Yes this is quite expected. Well meaning protests will often provide the

        'vehicle' (excuse the pun) for all sorts of malcontents to peddle their wares.

        • McFlock 4.2.1.1
          8 February 2022 at 12:11 pm

          Back in the 1990s, student protests would get the international socialists, and maybe a few "I liked Shortland St last night" slogans, but nothing too extreme in any direction.

          Whereas this lot are getting everything from anti-1080 to anti-vax.

          • weka 4.2.1.1.1
            8 February 2022 at 3:12 pm

            Looks like an emerging phenomena to me. Groundswell was the same. Being egged on by Dirty Pol crew, National, and I would expect Qanon type arseholes online as well as trolls.

            It's a massive mistake for the left to rely on ridicule as its primary response.

            • McFlock 4.2.1.1.1.1
              8 February 2022 at 3:29 pm

              Not many other responses, though. Ignoring them just lets it fester. Taking them seriously gives them credibility and respect most of them don't deserve, and it normalises their views and slogans. Contempt is too tiring without a sense of humour.

              The ones who can form a coherent protest over one issue, fine. Butsomething that is everything to every one who is fresh out of gruntles is doomed to fracture.

              • weka …
                8 February 2022 at 5:01 pm

                definitely don't think they should be ignored either.

                Probably useful to stop seeing them as a hive mind. Some people are grifting, some have grievances, some are just anti-Labour, some are concerned about government overreach etc.

                Thinking about disaffected, poor Māori who've been largely abandoned by Labour and the left. Teasing out what's real and what's bullshit seems a good idea.

                The ones who can form a coherent protest over one issue, fine. Butsomething that is everything to every one who is fresh out of gruntles is doomed to fracture.

                It's what happens after that fracturing that bothers me. It's not like those people just disappear.

                • aj …
                  8 February 2022 at 6:34 pm

                  definitely don't think they should be ignored either.

                  Too toxic even for Seymour or any of his sidekicks to speak too. They made a simple calculation: not enough votes, and meeting them would actually erode support

                • Blade …
                  8 February 2022 at 6:45 pm

                  I agree, Weka.

                  This group now have proof -in their eyes-that the government is not for the people.

                  Jacinda and all other political leaders have made a big mistake today by not addressing the crowd.

                  When talking of numbers, reporters are not taking into account all those who turned out to support the convoy on its way to Wellington.

                  So, I'm wondering where the support for government Covid measures is coming from ( see News Hub tonight).

                  Is there now a urban/ rural divide re Covid?

                  Something is not right with the numbers in these polls.

                  • McFlock …
                    8 February 2022 at 6:58 pm

                    Jacinda and all other political leaders have made a big mistake today by not addressing the crowd.

                    How exactly do you see that going? She gets up there and listens to abuse concerns for an hour, says sorry and then everyone loves her?

                    She gets up to speak, can get a word in edgeways over the abuse concerns, announces the cancelling of all controls and three waters and everyone loves her?

                    Or she fronts up, whatever she says infuriates the crowd, and there's an angry extremist mob with their personification of problems right there?

                    • Blade …
                      8 February 2022 at 7:24 pm

                      Look on OM yesterday.

                      I said she would be shouted down.

                      But that's not the point.

                    • felix …
                      8 February 2022 at 7:47 pm

                      Well she is a master communicator. I'm sure she could have come up with something better than "go fuck yourselves."

                    • McFlock …
                      8 February 2022 at 7:52 pm

                      @blade: there is no point to turning up just to be shouted down.

                      @felix: even a master communicator wouldn't get much of a different response to if they'd said "go fuck yourselves". There's no way she comes out of addressing that crowd without a baying mob involved.

                  • Robert Guyton …
                    8 February 2022 at 6:58 pm

                    This group believes the Government is not for them.

                    This group is tiny.

                    The Government need not care, but they will staunch the bleating, if it continues, with some sort of sop, and they will like it, coz, Freedumb!

                    • felix …
                      8 February 2022 at 7:45 pm

                      It's not tiny, it's thousands and thousands of ordinary people lining the streets of every town on the route. It's an incredibly dumb move to signal to all those people that the govt doesn't give a fuck what they think.

                  • Stuart Munro …
                    8 February 2022 at 8:16 pm

                    The antivax or shy nutbar "antimandate" are not "the people" they're like Trump's hairpiece – a lunatic fringe.

                    Had Jacinda addressed them, she'd've met an inept attempt at violence, which the DPS would have had to quell. Then they'd have whined about police brutality. Better to leave them to howl at the moon – the moon has heard it all before and isn't phased by it.

                    • Blade …
                      8 February 2022 at 10:47 pm

                      But.. but.. Stuart, they could not then complain that the PM wasn't interested in talking with them. That she didn't try.

                      I'm afraid you aren't the smartest strategist in Aotearoa.

                    • Drowsy M. Kram …
                      8 February 2022 at 11:07 pm

                      I'm afraid you aren't the smartest strategist in Aotearoa.

                      Coming from Blade that's excruciatingly funny.

                      PM Ardern and LotO Luxon not meeting them, and as for Seymour – “I don’t support people who are so anti-social that they block a road,”

                      https://www.1news.co.nz/2022/02/08/this-too-will-pass-ardern-dismisses-anti-mandate-protest/

                      The mirth continues…

                    • Blade …
                      9 February 2022 at 12:16 am

                      ''This too will pass’ – Ardern dismisses anti-mandate protest.''

                      I know many Lefties aren't too bright, including the socialists on the Right – but Jacinda or her advisers have had a brain fart.

                      ''Coming from Blade that's excruciatingly funny.''

                      I don't blame you for throwing the kitchen sink at me.surprise

                    • Drowsy M. Kram …
                      9 February 2022 at 1:59 am

                      I know many Lefties aren't too bright, including the socialists on the Right – but Jacinda or her advisers have had a brain fart. – Blade

                      Imho, the brain farts and bozo eruptions were coming mostly from the ‘protesters’, and with increasing frequency. Time will tell.

                      Anti-vaccine mandate protesters at Parliament pitch tents for the night
                      As has become a theme with anti-vaccine mandate protests, other causes were on display: opposition to the three waters reforms; Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern or the “lying” mainstream media; and support for Donald Trump and the United States.

                      Many wanted “freedom” – though not to the extent of allowing others to wear a mask undisturbed.
                      …
                      “I’ve been here since 1990, and this protest was the most the angry,” Boyce said. “Our staff were being called Nazis, through no fault of their own, treated like absolute trash. All these really sickening types of accusations, absolutely detestable and untrue.”

                    • Stuart Munro …
                      9 February 2022 at 6:15 am

                      @Drowsy M. Kram

                      Somewhere along the line the classical knowledge of demagogues and their mobs of shambling morons has been lost. Cleon, Trump, and Hitler are the same thing.

                      • They present themselves as a man or woman of the common people, opposed to the elites.
                      • Their politics depends on a visceral connection with the people, which greatly exceeds ordinary political popularity.
                      • They manipulate this connection, and the raging popularity it affords, for their own benefit and ambition.
                      • They threaten or outright break established rules of conduct, institutions, and even the law.

                      Democracy is particularly vulnerable to demagogues, and the Greeks, recognizing this, evolved the defense of ostracism.

                      The anti vax mandate whatever suits the narrative of the moment protestors are part of a long but not a glorious history.

      • gsays 4.2.2
        8 February 2022 at 12:12 pm

        Any evidence to support your assertion about organisers restricting messaging?

        Or is this more misinformation (the OK sort of misinformation because 'anti-vax') akin to your question at @9?

        • Robert Guyton 4.2.2.1
          8 February 2022 at 12:23 pm

          Is it me you are asking, gsays? If so, yes. I was inadvertently, perhaps, included in a Facebook site that was being used for the purpose of organising/encouraging the southern convoy from the get-go and they certainly went to pains to stop any messages other than, "No mandate" – I won't link, but perhaps you might accept my word on this. The Groundswell organisers tried the same thing for their second howl – that didn't work either, as we saw. The convoy people seemed determined to brand their efforts as "No Mandates" only, but from the reporting, photos especially, you can see that it degenerated into a mish-mash of mixed-messages, including American flags etc.

          • gsays 4.2.2.1.1
            8 February 2022 at 12:34 pm

            Yes I was asking you and thank you for your reply. I do take you at your word.

            I understand trying to keep messaging on track and equally see how it didn't stay there.

            It isn't just the 6,8 or 10% unvaxxed that are miffed at the direction of this regime. Issues such as Passports, mandates, 3 waters, health reforms, the groundswell issues, housing inaffordability, inequality etc all have their constituents. And most want to paint a placard.

            • Robert Guyton 4.2.2.1.1.1
              8 February 2022 at 12:39 pm

              Yes, there's plenty for the malcontent to be unhappy about – times of change throw up unsettling challenges.

              Most of the placards, I notice, are professionally-produced and carefully-worded – reminds me a lot of the United States of America and the slickness of their pro-Trump campaign. Have you received flyers in your mailbox, gsays? Those remind me of the Exclusive Brethren campaign against The Greens, back in the day. Such materials smell of money.

              • gsays …
                8 February 2022 at 12:57 pm

                Times of change is one diagnosis, lack of will and political courage is another.

                Grayling's Law implies landlord politicians aren't going to solve housing affordability.

                Nothing through the mail-box, don't do FB, Twitter etc, very little tv news and no commercial radio (cricket commentary excluded). TS is one of the few places for a societal barometer I have.

                Plenty of money linked flyers from Countdown, New World, real estate agents though, you know, 'good money', from within the system.

        • Patricia Bremner 4.2.2.2
          8 February 2022 at 2:18 pm

          That was widely reported, and Groundswell distanced themselves.

        • Shanreagh 4.2.2.3
          9 February 2022 at 12:00 am

          I cannot find 9.can you please use the quote facility so we can find the actual post. Thanks

          • gsays 4.2.2.3.1
            9 February 2022 at 10:17 am

            Comment 9 was Robert's latest item of disinformation/joke.

            Linking really poor behaviour to the protest.

            Yet another example of trying to throw mud and hoping some sticks.

    • Cricklewood 4.3
      8 February 2022 at 12:46 pm

      The current mandates need to go, they're doing far more harm than good.

      • gsays 4.3.1
        8 February 2022 at 12:59 pm

        Ae, it's a matter of whether they are undone and scrapped by the powers that be, or they get ignored and rendered useless by the hoi polloi.

        My money is on the latter.

        • Cricklewood 4.3.1.1
          8 February 2022 at 4:46 pm

          They need to be scrapped by the powers that be… because the hoi polloi can only ignore so much. Mandates effecting access for anyone over 12 that's unvaxxed from public facilities not so much.

          The tight community forming around anti mandate sentiment has already developed a pretty good black market (for want of better word) and we are now is an entrenchment of position in a rather large group of people who are prepared to stand for what they believe in and are likely going to sit on the edge of society henceforth. We dont have long left to prevent that.

          It's easy and not to mention lazy to call them anti vaxx or stupid… They're part of our society and they're in my personal experience ordinary and exceptionally generous Kiwis.

          I stand with them in their anti mandate stance.

      • McFlock 4.3.2
        8 February 2022 at 4:51 pm

        pfft.

        How many cases a day do you want NZ to peak at – and how many hospitalisations and deaths will result?

        I know of at least one DHB that is shifting as many scheduled surgeries as it can to the private sector, and cancelling most of the remainder, simply because of how many beds are expected to be filled in the coming weeks. And that's with the vaccine pass protocols slowing it down.

  5. Sanctuary 5
    8 February 2022 at 8:44 am

    Is it just me or have all the flies got super arrogant in this humidity?

    • Robert Guyton 5.1
      8 February 2022 at 8:59 am

      Satirical question, Sanctuary?

      If so, yes.

      • Sanctuary 5.1.1
        8 February 2022 at 12:59 pm

        I draw the line when they start going through my wine cellar.

        • Robert Guyton 5.1.1.1
          8 February 2022 at 1:01 pm

          Do flies respect drawn-lines?

          Worse though, would be if they were vinegar-flies. That would bode badly for your favourite wines.

          • alwyn 5.1.1.1.1
            8 February 2022 at 2:41 pm

            "vinegar"?

            Ouch! That is cruel Robert. His wine cellar may not quite match that of the Rothschild of Chateau Lafite fame but calling it vinegar is a little harsh.

            • Robert Guyton 5.1.1.1.1.1
              8 February 2022 at 2:52 pm

              It could be from one poorly-capped bottle, Alwyn. I've certainly had a bottle or 2 of homemade cider turn to vinegar – mind you, cider-vinegar is a very healthy tipple; just a small amount, first thing in the morning, keeps the aging gentleman sprightly and keen!

              • alwyn …
                8 February 2022 at 3:09 pm

                I never tried making wine or cider, or anything else, after my one and only attempt at making homebrew.

                As I remember it we probably bottled it before fermentation was complete and the bottles started exploding. Either that or we added too much priming sugar. I never did find out. Luckily it was out in a garage and we could stick some sandbags around it after throwing sacks over the stack of bottles. It made a bloody awful mess.

                Never again. I can still remember the event 55 years later.

                • Robert Guyton …
                  8 February 2022 at 7:02 pm

                  Good times!

                  Cider doesn't explode, as a rule. I've made a great deal, over the years, but have eased off now; easy to make, tiring to dispose of 🙂

                  That said, I'm spending all day tomorrow, pressing apples, for juice mainly, but the juice-to-hard cider is pretty simple.

                  • alwyn …
                    8 February 2022 at 8:38 pm

                    "tiring to dispose of".

                    Ah yes. How did the remark go? I think it was "I drink to relax. Sometimes I get so relaxed I can't stand".

                • gsays …
                  8 February 2022 at 10:10 pm

                  Heh, I am enjoying a homebrew cider that has some Black Rooster chai in it, as I casually monitor the first batch of ginger beer.

                  I aim to have a sweet, effervescent 7% brew. The key is to stop the ferment once a desirable level of carbonation has occurred, shy of the UXB experience you had, Alwyn.

                  Pasteurise by putting capped bottles into a chilli bin, with 60 C water for about an hour. A sous vide gadget is the go .

        • Patricia Bremner 5.1.1.2
          8 February 2022 at 2:20 pm

          devil or the worker bees carparks.

    • lprent 5.2
      8 February 2022 at 3:17 pm

      I am 3 floors up from our two story car park. I was astonished last night to hear a fly buzzing behind my ear. They seldom make it up that high.

      The cat disposed of it. Best hunting since last years oversized aussie cockroach.

  6. Foreign waka 6
    8 February 2022 at 11:37 am

    All those people must be wrong when they say they don't agree with the government policy of mandates?
    Maybe the government needs to put time limits on otherwise it would be in breach of human right laws.
    Perhaps we just need to listen to the concerns before being judge and jury.

    https://alldifferences.com/difference-between-mandate-and-law/

    As for the right to protest:

    Since when does NZ not allow voices of opposition? NZ has a history as far back as 1845 were people went to the streets to voice their disagreement..

    This is what democracy looks like, inconvenient without a doubt but the government has to remember that they are there on behest of the people, they are not rulers without consequence and responsibility.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_protests_in_New_Zealand

    I rather have people marching and voicing their displeasure than living in a totalitarian state and instead of flags its gunfire.

    Our PM doesn't even meet them, she cant be bothered. Democracy just got a wave of a despotic ruler? Kindness has left the building.

    • lprent 6.1
      8 February 2022 at 11:42 am

      There isn't a requirement for our head of government to meet anyone apart from the governer general and parliament.

      You appear to have some very strange ideas about how our government works.

      Politically I can't see any point either. They probably should be calling for the leaders of the opposition to met them.

      The potestors seem to be more of their responsibility to me.

      • Foreign waka 6.1.1
        8 February 2022 at 12:32 pm

        I don't think that this has anything to do with the opposition but rather with missing the fine point that mandates are not laws and any implementation has to be timebound. I gave you the link to show the difference.

        All I am saying is, that NZ has been there a number of times and I do hope as a people have learned to not get to a antagonistic state of affairs. I am curious what hindsight will show 10 years from now – if I am still around.

        • lprent 6.1.1.1
          8 February 2022 at 2:02 pm

          Of course they are laws. Read the Health Act 1956. Those laws have been largely in place since the 1920s.

          FFS – variations of challenges to the health orders have already been to the suoreme court and apart from one technicality been biffed out.

          The procedure for time binding is currently in the pandemic preparedness act of 2006. It basically consists of going back to the PM for periodic review, and to parliament for a less binding review.

          Since National and Labour currently support the mandates and most other responses directed by the MoH DG, then it appears unlikely to change any time soon.

          You don't have guess or listen to someone who is probably a ignorant lying fool to find out what the laws are. Just read the legislation – it is all online and quite readable. Just google legislation nz.

          At the very least it will make you look less like a fool to me.

          It soundss like you simply don't read

        • Craig H 6.1.1.2
          8 February 2022 at 5:28 pm

          The mandates are secondary legislation, so are definitely laws in terms of NZ's Parliamentary and legal systems.

      • Anne 6.1.2
        8 February 2022 at 2:41 pm

        Also the 2022 season of parliament opened today and the caucus met this morning – the first time in many months. The PM is is a human being and can't be everywhere at once just like the rest of us.

        I would have been concerned if she had gone out to meet them given the unprecedented level of vitriol and aggressive threatening behaviour they have thrown at her. Her safety could have been seriously compromised.

        Edit: I submitted the above before seeing that others have made similar points. Good one. These “nutters and crackpots” have been getting away with murder (metaphorically speaking) and its high time the rest of us let them know we’ve had enough of their moronic antics.

    • observer 6.2
      8 February 2022 at 11:44 am

      Given their behaviour, why on earth would she want to meet them?

      Don't worry, democracy's doing fine. At the election you can vote for all your favourite anti-vaxers, if they stand. Then you can find out their true level of support.

      But they won't stand, precisely because they know their true level of support.

    • McFlock 6.3
      8 February 2022 at 12:19 pm

      Who's not allowing voices of opposition, or not allowing protest?

      These nutters be nutters, but they can protest as much as they want – heck, if they're willing to face repercussions for going beyond "down with this sort of thing" and move to actual civil disobedience and light crimes like obstructing roads, that's their call. Most protestors have done a wee bit of that. Many have been arrested for it in the past.

      But there's nothing to say anyone actually doing a job has to meet them, listen to them, or put themselves in dangerous proximity to them.

      • Foreign waka 6.3.1
        8 February 2022 at 12:54 pm

        Dangerous? Are you serious?

        I mean that kind of rhetoric is completely unhelpful. Ostracizing people was ending badly in the past and even recently – like the USA. For every action there is a reaction. You opinion is as valid as theirs in a free country.

        By the responses on this site, many would not allow the protest. Hence my comment. I also feel that the PM has to be able to talk to all people and not just some. Up to her how she wants to handle that really. Those who need some statesmanship right now on all side will find themselves disappointed.

        • McFlock 6.3.1.1
          8 February 2022 at 1:01 pm

          I am serious.

          I wouldn't be sure there's not a single person in that group who might have ulterior plans and access to firearms. And arguing that the pm should pretend they're benign because otherwise they'll try to violently storm parliament (like the US) isn't actually supporting the position of treating the protestors with anything other than extreme caution.

        • Sanctuary 6.3.1.2
          8 February 2022 at 1:06 pm

          Ah, the irony of people who probably spent last night in a damp paddock somewhere calling the rest of us sheep…

          This is the same 2000 or so people who pollute social media with their nonsense. Ignorant and uneducated and/or plain paranoid/crazy they've been weaponised for profit by Facebook and manipulated by grifters who see a dollar in their gullibility. It is tragic to see how these sad people are gleefully egged on for profit and clicks by the media.

          We've seen the same faces before. Anti-1080, chem trails, Agenda 21, fantasy anti-communists. The same, tired losers. The same crystal Karens and paranoid pot abusers and damaged victims of abuse being led on by pricks and people who think the Lord took six days to create the earth as we see at every other protest. They are drunk on the attention of getting platformed by a cynical MSM who mostly hope there will be a riot they can lead the 6pm news with.

          I mostly feel sorry for them.

          • Anne 6.3.1.2.1
            8 February 2022 at 3:00 pm

            I saw the idiocy with my own eyes on Monday. The anti everything crowd were draped all over the motorway over-bridges jumping up and down in a frenzied manner and waving their flags and banners. I thought they were just a bit over excited at the time but it seems some of them at least imagined us motorists belting along the Southern motorway were part of the protests. There was a bit of horn blowing but I think it was more a case of… giving them the car version of "the fingers". I was one of them!

            • Tricledrown 6.3.1.2.1.1
              9 February 2022 at 10:51 am

              Most of them were Exclusive Brethren and destiny church. Following the convoy racing to the next bridge to make their numbers look bigger than they were.Trump like.

          • Tony Veitch (not etc.) 6.3.1.2.2
            8 February 2022 at 9:02 pm

            Check out sorryantivaxxer.com and read some of the posts – talk about cognitive dissidence!

            A lot of these anti-vaxxers have a very tenuous grip on reality.

        • Patricia Bremner 6.3.1.3
          8 February 2022 at 3:06 pm

          devil I've marched. I marched against the educational and worker changes Douglas and c/o introduced. I marched against the contract act and I was challenged with… "as a teacher it won't affect you." I answered "It will affect the families of the children I teach" We are not just "arm chair spokes people here"

          This is habitual on TS. A wee few name call, or over state issues or prod till they get a response, then feel vindicated.

          No one has stopped protest. In fact the cheek has been turned so often…..Police have been using kid gloves,

          Ministers have tried to allow reasonable dissent, but some protestors want confrontation. The internet facebook tiktok etc add to the anger and misinformation. Luckily no political party supports anti vax anti mandate groups, as they know by the high vaccination numbers how marginal that would be.

          • UncookedSelachimorpha 6.3.1.3.1
            8 February 2022 at 3:58 pm

            "Luckily no political party supports anti vax anti mandate groups, as they know by the high vaccination numbers how marginal that would be."

            Actually, the Outdoors party likely supports all the nonsense. I see they seem to have changed their name to the "Outdoors and Freedom Party". They got very few votes last time, expect the same for next time.

            • Tony Veitch (not etc.) 6.3.1.3.1.1
              8 February 2022 at 9:04 pm

              I think Seymour got very close to supporting anti-mandate stupidity in his speech in the debate in the house today.

              Sorry, don't want to link to it to give that w*nker a platform.

            • Patricia Bremner 6.3.1.3.1.2
              9 February 2022 at 12:56 am

              yes Noted

        • weka 6.3.1.4
          8 February 2022 at 3:16 pm

          By the responses on this site, many would not allow the protest.

          Really? Who has said that?

          Dangerous? Are you serious?

          I wouldn't want to meet with a group of people whose politics and actions are grounded in not caring if a contagious disease present in the community spreads or not.

    • Tricledrown 6.4
      9 February 2022 at 10:55 am

      Foreign Waka just reheating anit vax hatred.

  7. lprent 7
    8 February 2022 at 11:44 am

    Server had some problems this morning. Looks like a kernel issue.

    I will reboot again to get to a more stable version.

  8. observer 8
    8 February 2022 at 11:53 am

    From the NZ Herald:

    National Party leader Christopher Luxon also said no National MPs would engage with the protestors.

    "We have a busy day here. I appreciate there is a range of views sitting in the protest but we are a party that is pro-vaccination and boosters. We think that is the best protection people can have."

    Asked if he was also supportive of the vaccine mandates across multiple workforces, he said he supported them at this point in time.

    "That's something we've supported to this point. We think ultimately the Government, having stepped in, will have to determine how to step out in due course. But right now we think the setting is the right one."

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-omicron-outbreak-convoy-protesters-arrive-in-wellington/WHEVUEVUTMHIJ63X4RVZBLFVEE/

  9. Robert Guyton 9
    8 February 2022 at 11:57 am

    Did the South Island convoy stop off overnight in Dunedin?

    https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/anti-vax-vandals-strike

  10. Blade 10
    8 February 2022 at 12:11 pm

    Reply to McFlock.

    Correct. ACT believe in:

    1- State funded housing.

    2- Welfare.

    3- Weak justice.

    4- No tax breaks to allow folks to choose their own education and medical options.

    5- The continuation of woke government funded organisations.

    The only difference with ACT is these things would be monitored carefully. And the largess of a big spending Labour government would be gone.

    • McFlock 10.1
      8 February 2022 at 12:23 pm

      lol

      • Blade 10.1.1
        8 February 2022 at 12:30 pm

        Never crossed your mind, did it.laugh

        These are the folk people believe are Libertarians.

        When posters mention far right ACT, I crying with laughter.

        • McFlock 10.1.1.1
          8 February 2022 at 12:54 pm

          Never crossed my mind?

          The dude who would respect Luxon giving a speech but can't because he spoke Māori is further right wing than ACT? The guy who thinks talkback radio is the voice of the nation thinks ACT is too left wing? Amongst other things? quelle surprise.

        • Nic the NZer 10.1.1.2
          8 February 2022 at 1:41 pm

          I don't want to get bogged down in the 'no true' libertarian falacy, but where did the libertarian wing go when John Banks took over?

          • Blade 10.1.1.2.1
            8 February 2022 at 2:55 pm

            What Libertarian wing? That an old crusty conservative was a leader of ACT should tell you something.

            ”No true’ libertarian fallacy,”

            Never heard of that. Tell me more?

            • Blade 10.1.1.2.1.1
              8 February 2022 at 3:18 pm

              Geez , you lot can't get past your preconceived narrative, can you.

              ''The dude who would respect Luxon giving a speech but can't because he spoke Māori .''

              That's not what I said. I said I would have had more respect for him if he had spoken for a good one minute in Maori instead of using tokenistic Maori words throughout his speech.

              ''The guy who thinks talkback radio is the voice of the nation thinks ACT is too left wing?''

              The voice of the man in the street. A slight difference. No, I never said ACT is too Leftwing. I said they were socialists.

              • McFlock …
                8 February 2022 at 3:41 pm

                Fair call, I got the first wrong. The "slight difference" is nothing to write home about.

                But you do seem to have changed tack from answering my query:

                ACT are too left wing for you, huh?

                Fascinating.

                with:

                Reply to McFlock.

                Correct. [list of "socialist" Act policies]

                Now you are saying that they're not too left wing for you? Is it just the mislabelling on the packaging that irks you, then?

              • mac1 …
                8 February 2022 at 3:55 pm

                Quite right, Blade, you did say that. Good on you.

                Did you notice that Jacinda Ardern gave a good length introduction in Māori in her speech from Parliament on Waitangi Day?

                • Blade …
                  8 February 2022 at 4:09 pm

                  Yes, and that made Luxon's tokenism stand out in contrast.

                  I still thought his speech was very good.

                  McFlock:

                  ”No, I never said ACT is too Leftwing. I said they were socialists.”

                  Yep, I see what you mean.

                  ACT are too socialist for me.

            • Nic the NZer 10.1.1.2.1.2
              8 February 2022 at 3:34 pm

              Well one assumes some members of ACT were libertarians and that they left when (or before) the 'old crusty conservative' took over.

              But maybe they were always too socialist for your tastes.

              • Blade …
                8 February 2022 at 4:19 pm

                To my knowledge no Libertarian has been a member of ACT. I may be wrong about that.

                The problem is too many people are calling themselves Libertarians. I even came across a guy who called himself a Socialist Libertarian.

  11. Blade 11
    8 February 2022 at 12:25 pm

    . I thought this was taking the piss. But no – it's real. These poor kids. The real world awaits them.

    In a woke context I get where they are coming from. And some issues and names aren't that important to me.

    But change starts with language…and from that all things follow.

    Like I have said, our public education system is now about indoctrination.

    It’s another reason why home schooling is taking off.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/127702133/canterbury-school-establishes-genderneutral-student-leadership-team

    • Robert Guyton 11.1
      8 February 2022 at 12:35 pm

      "Head boy" and "Head girl" = "The real world"?

      How so?

      • Blade 11.1.1
        8 February 2022 at 12:41 pm

        A boss boy and a boss girl.

        Seems reality based to me.

        If you want to call then a head punga and a head fern, that is completely OK. Anything goes as long as it's not colonial hierarchical nonsense.

        • Robert Guyton 11.1.1.1
          8 February 2022 at 1:04 pm

          Why not, "Head students"?

          • Blade 11.1.1.1.1
            8 February 2022 at 3:21 pm

            Head student is no problem. It's the politics that drive these changes and the associated agenda that I find a problem.

            • Robert Guyton 11.1.1.1.1.1
              8 February 2022 at 3:30 pm

              You seem irritated by a great many things.

              Change, seems to unsettle you a great deal.

              • Drowsy M. Kram …
                8 February 2022 at 3:59 pm

                Change, seems to unsettle you a great deal.

                Not all change, Robert – for example, our ‘enigmatic’ dull Blade (unkind?) has no time for man-made climate change.

                On second thought, your opinion is sound – denial is a common response to being unsettled by inconvenient truths.

                Denialism: what drives people to reject the truth
                It is hard to tell whether global warming denialists are secretly longing for the chaos and pain that global warming will bring, are simply indifferent to it, or would desperately like it not to be the case but are overwhelmed with the desire to keep things as they are.

                • Blade …
                  8 February 2022 at 4:48 pm

                  I will talk for myself without the need for sarcasm and snide remarks

                  I accept the climate is changing. I do not believe in man made climate change.

                  I accept for better or worse there is nothing I can do about the climate changing.

                  I don't fuss or fret, but I do plan in case CC may affect me directly.

                  I feel sorry for people running around like headless chooks because they believe '' if only the world could go green, we would advert climate change.''

                  • Drowsy M. Kram …
                    8 February 2022 at 6:08 pm

                    B, with >20 comments on OM alone this afternoon, you're the most prolific blogger on this "Lefty blog" – such industry deserves recognition.

                    As for:

                    I accept for better or worse there is nothing I can do about the climate changing.

                    that will naturally be true for you as long as you "do not believe in man made climate change". A key hypothetical question for you to consider would be: If you did believe in man-made climate change on spaceship Earth, would you still believe that there was nothing you could do about it?

                    Climate change denial, or global warming denial, is denial, dismissal, or unwarranted doubt that contradicts the scientific consensus on climate change, including the extent to which it is caused by humans, its effects on nature and human society, or the potential of adaptation to global warming by human actions.

                    • Blade …
                      8 February 2022 at 6:52 pm

                      ''B, with >20 comments on OM alone this afternoon, you're the most prolific blogger on this "Lefty blog" – such industry deserves recognition.''

                      ?

                      If you did believe in man-made climate change on spaceship Earth, would you still believe that there was nothing you could do about it?

                      Well, that's a no brainer isn't it.

                      ''Contradicts the scientific consensus on climate change.''

                      That's another great statement that causes me mirth.

                  • Robert Guyton …
                    8 February 2022 at 6:16 pm

                    Blade: "I will talk for myself without the need for sarcasm and snide remarks"

                    Quoted for truth, filed, enjoyed.

                  • Drowsy M. Kram …
                    8 February 2022 at 7:37 pm

                    That’s another great statement that causes me mirth. [@6:62 pm]

                    And your mirth is a cause of great mirth for me – a win-win laugh

              • Blade …
                8 February 2022 at 4:01 pm

                It's a Lefty blog… I have a lot to be irritated about. However, it's great brain training to meet the machinations of trolls. I reckon at the end of each day this blog gives me an extra 5 IQ points.

                • McFlock …
                  8 February 2022 at 4:04 pm

                  Anyone figured out how you lose so many overnight, though?

                  • Blade …
                    8 February 2022 at 4:25 pm

                    I give them away to my next door neighbour. He's a local Labour Party support worker.

                    Nice guy, but he believes Graeme Heart is causing the housing crisis by buying up heaps of houses and selling them to the Chinese.frown

                    • McFlock …
                      8 February 2022 at 4:41 pm

                      Ah. You are a river to your people, only with IQ points.

                      Methinks you doth donate too much.

                    • In Vino …
                      8 February 2022 at 5:51 pm

                      'thou dost'.

                      'you doth ' is not any kind of English.

                    • McFlock …
                      8 February 2022 at 7:03 pm

                      'you doth ' is not any kind of English.

                      What do you expect from someone who shakes Willy around at the slightest excuse? 🙂

                    • mac1 …
                      8 February 2022 at 7:58 pm

                      What, Willy Shakespear? Methinks thou dost project too much!

                    • Blazer …
                      9 February 2022 at 8:33 am

                      Hart is contributing to the crisis by buying up houses and leaving them…empty…Govt is o.k with this pursuit.

                      Chinese do not need his help.

                      I have seen incidences reported when the foreign buyers ban is breached ,of the poor buyers having to sell the property and pay a fine…so breach the ban,by buying a property for say 900k,get found out and ordered to sell….sell for 1.3mil,pay Govt $30,000 dollars and say…sorry…

                • mac1 …
                  8 February 2022 at 8:12 pm

                  "65% of Americans believe they are above average in intelligence:"

                  ” I reckon at the end of each day this blog gives me an extra 5 IQ points.”

                  • Blade …
                    8 February 2022 at 9:58 pm

                    Well…they did give us Apollo rockets and the Blackbird SR-71.

                    Or was that the work of Nazis and recovered alien technology from the Rosewell crash?

                    • mac1 …
                      10 February 2022 at 10:02 am

                      "Rosewell", Blade. That is putting a new complexion on things!

                      And I think they kept their rockets and their Blackbird, unless they're in that secret base under the Alps guarded by those Italians……..

        • Jimmy 11.1.1.2
          8 February 2022 at 2:15 pm

          The Green Party have a head boy and a head girl that they call co-leaders (but I believe one must be male and one female…..someone may be able to correct me on that).

          • Robert Guyton 11.1.1.2.1
            8 February 2022 at 2:36 pm

            Why wouldn't that work at a high school, Jimmy?

            Co-leaders.

            • Ad 11.1.1.2.1.1
              8 February 2022 at 2:57 pm

              Lots of high schools are still single gender.

              • Robert Guyton …
                8 February 2022 at 3:00 pm

                True. Then a distinction between genders won't be needed at all. And co-leaders, both of the same gender, is still a good idea, imo.

              • Patricia Bremner …
                8 February 2022 at 3:11 pm

                Community Leaders?

              • In Vino …
                8 February 2022 at 9:25 pm

                Sorry, Ad – not so many as you think. The vast majority of "single-sex Boys' schools" now include – wait for it – some horrible girly-germ ridden female students!!

                Sad but true. Check out just how many boys' schools remain that have not taken in girls as well.

            • Jimmy 11.1.1.2.1.2
              8 February 2022 at 3:00 pm

              I never said it wouldn't work at a high school.

    • Peter 11.2
      8 February 2022 at 2:56 pm

      Imagine, with homeschoolers everyone home could have a head boy and/or a head girl!

      For god's sake they're having four head prefects. Who the hell cares what gender they are? Shall we turn it into a big issue?

      • Blade 11.2.1
        8 February 2022 at 3:30 pm

        ''For god's sake they're having four head prefects. Who the hell cares what gender they are? Shall we turn it into a big issue?''

        Yes, it's the politics behind these changes that worries me.

        I expect home schooling to explode now that Covid numbers are increasing.

  12. Puckish Rogue 12
    8 February 2022 at 12:33 pm

    The Babylon Bee have their work cut out for them in this current political climate:

    https://babylonbee.com/news/to-improve-trustworthiness-of-the-hosts-alex-jones-to-replace-whoopi-goldberg-on-the-view

    • Blade 12.1
      8 February 2022 at 3:35 pm

      This is incredible…I must tell my liberal friend. He will be angry. So, what!! He can suck a latte made with onions. yeslaugh

      Good stuff PR.

  13. Adrian 13
    8 February 2022 at 12:40 pm

    Robert, I don’t know about Dunedin but further north these people who call everybody else sheep were sleeping in paddocks.
    Probably fitting, the IQs match.

    • mac1 13.1
      8 February 2022 at 12:50 pm

      Were the real sheep in the paddock huddled against the far fence, Adrian, praying for rain, dogs or a hole in the wire?

  14. Whispering Kate 14
    8 February 2022 at 1:56 pm

    Lprent can you help me. My Amazon Fire has frozen on the 2nd February and is not rolling over daily like it used to. I have deleted the short cut and have entered again via the browser and it is still frozen on the 2nd Feb. What is this jargon about the SSL which is on a header on my page??

    My laptop is working fine and I get daily updates okay. Help please

    • lprent 14.1
      8 February 2022 at 3:11 pm

      Ok, we changed the SSL certificate last week (so 2nd Feb is about right) and shifted to using Cloudflare as a front-end proxy.

      It is probably complaining about the change to use a Cloudflare DNS and certificate because it has conflicting cache details.

      1. Have you tried simply turning the fire off fully and restarting.

      1. If it is a browser, then try forcing the page to fully reload without using the cache. I have no idea how to do that on the fire. Probably just Clear Cacheon this link
        https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=GJZBJS5B8VBCGQ48
      • Whispering Kate 14.1.1
        8 February 2022 at 4:05 pm

        Thanks for your help but the instructions I downloaded are not appearing on my Amazon screen. Will see if my techie son in law in the States can help me. The reason I have a Fire is my daughter over there has one and its great for messaging. Its a bugger but them's the days. Thanks anyway.

  15. Puckish Rogue 15
    8 February 2022 at 2:51 pm

    Cricket time!

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/cricket/black-caps/300512707/black-caps-very-confident-kane-williamsons-troublesome-elbow-will-fully-mend

    Black Caps squad for first test: Tom Latham (captain), Will Young, Devon Conway, Henry Nicholls, Daryl Mitchell, Tom Blundell, Colin de Grandhomme, Rachin Ravindra, Kyle Jamieson, Tim Southee, Matt Henry, Neil Wagner, Hamish Rutherford, Blair Tickner, Cam Fletcher.

    Some interesting selections.

    Trent Boult not playing so they replace him with Blair Tickner but, barring injury, Blair won't play ahead of Henry so why not bring in the pace of Ben Sears, hes young and got some real pace so if hes not going to play it might do him some good in the team set up or Adam Milne (if his body can handle it)

    Not sure why they've selected Hamish Rutherford, hes passed 50 once in ten innings and averages 37 in FC, hes an opening batter but we've got three that can do the job so shouldn't we be looking for a middle order batsman?

    Tom Bruce and Mark Chapman both average over 40 in the middle order

    Also wheres Patel?

    My prediction for the next test team, based on the squad:

    1. Latham
    2. Young
    3. Conway
    4. Nicholls
    5. Mitchell
    6. De Grandhomme (maybe swopped around with Blundell or replaced by Ravindra)
    7. Blundell
    8. Jamieson
    9. Southee
    10. Henry
    11. Wagner
    • lprent 15.1
      8 February 2022 at 3:03 pm

      Oh no… Please make it go away.

      Fantasy cricket is even more tedious than actual cricket

      devil

      • Puckish Rogue 15.1.1
        8 February 2022 at 3:10 pm

        As if there was any other reply required:

      • alwyn 15.1.2
        8 February 2022 at 3:14 pm

        You must remember that Puckish Rogue, being a religious man, and trying to grasp the concept of eternity, invented Test Cricket.

        • Puckish Rogue 15.1.2.1
          8 February 2022 at 3:22 pm

          If I'd invented test cricket then there'd be no toss.

          The visiting team chooses whether to bat or bowl

        • lprent 15.1.2.2
          8 February 2022 at 3:28 pm

          He must have. I rather lost interest during one of the moon landings because of the obsessive behaviour of cricket players.

          I was listening to the commentary on a transistor radio on a hot weekend day about the descent and some crazed cricketer with a heat stroke and a loud voice dragged me away to do some tedious batting. Insisted that batting was more important than a historic landing, with a possibility of gore.

          Put me off cricket because clearly the enthusiastic participants must be deranged in their sense of priorities.

        • mac1 15.1.2.3
          8 February 2022 at 3:40 pm

          Some would say test cricket was created to give us understanding of Hell, but they'd be Americans. I once spent an enjoyable bus ride talking to an ex-colonel of the US army explaining the intricacies of swing and spin, and he likewise the knuckle ball and an upcurving pitch. The central plain of Turkey whizzed by…..

          • Puckish Rogue 15.1.2.3.1
            8 February 2022 at 3:48 pm

            yes

            Thats how diplomacy is done

            • lprent 15.1.2.3.1.1
              8 February 2022 at 4:51 pm

              Pretending to be interested in other peoples sport?

              • Puckish Rogue …
                8 February 2022 at 5:11 pm

                I'm sure alcohol probably helped the conversation.

                • mac1 …
                  8 February 2022 at 6:39 pm

                  On a bus, in Turkey?

                  I did buy a bottle of wine there from the island off the coast where the Greek ships hid before retuning to Troy after the wooden horse had discharged its attackers.

                  The wine would not have broken any Muslim alcohol laws. It was pure vinegar.

    • Patricia Bremner 15.2
      8 February 2022 at 3:15 pm

      This constant overlooking of Patel is a thorn in my side!!

      • Puckish Rogue 15.2.1
        8 February 2022 at 3:30 pm

        The issue to me is that NZs medium-fast to fast-medium battery of bowlers have done very well in home conditions and when overseas conditions suit and theres nothing wrong with that

        But opposition teams are probably working out, if they haven't already, how to nullify the bowling

        NZ does have good variety (except out and out pace) but we still need to support our spinners.

        All respect to Patel but when it comes to spinning options theres him then daylight then the 37 yo Somerville, Ravindra and Santner

        NZ Cricket did well to make the team competitive but we'll never be up there consistantly until our spinners are up there, we need some pitches to encourage our spinners

        • tsmithfield 15.2.1.1
          8 February 2022 at 4:20 pm

          I think the top eleven mostly selects itself.

          The two key areas they will probably be thinking about:

          Colin De Grandhomme vs Darryl Mitchell

          Blair Tickner vs Rachin Ravindra

          If CDG is in form I would probably chose him over DM for his bowling.

          The choice between BT and RR will largely come down to the expected pitch conditions, and whether they think the batting needs to be strengthed a bit.

          Personally, I hop BT plays. Our bowling starts looking a bit one-paced otherwise since Trent Boult is missing this game.

          • Puckish Rogue 15.2.1.1.1
            8 February 2022 at 5:10 pm

            I think Mitchells done enough to warrant a place at 5 (and who else is there?), I think Ravindra will be a mainstay in the line up but hes not quite there yet.

            Does Tickner have some pace, I thought he was around the 130-135 mark?

            If he does then I'd have him in over Henry

  16. observer 16
    8 February 2022 at 2:58 pm

    Parliament's back. Poor old Luxie misses his cue to start his speech, luckily for him Mallard was feeling generous.

    Now he's promised everyone in the country a new e-bike. Got my vote! cheeky

    • Robert Guyton 16.1
      8 February 2022 at 3:18 pm

      Luxxy was a wan performer, Jacinda, entirely in control of her messages. Poor Seymour has lost his mojo and Willis had to apologise for her bad manners.

    • mac1 16.2
      8 February 2022 at 3:32 pm

      5 million e-bikes (less one cos I've got an old model already).

      Will they be made in the Addington railway workshops? Will they be made of Tiwai aluminium? Then the power could go to fuel them after manufacture.

      Then we'll build more cycleways. More bike stands. More crash helmets; hemp-lined aluminium models thus catering for the 250,000 tin foil crowd.

      Enlarge the ICUs. Grow hemp to replace lycra for the cycle suits.

      Mine more coal for the electricity to drive 5 million bikes.

      Install 1,6 million houses with solar panels.

      Push cars off the roads onto the cycleways to give 5 million bikes room.

      Great policy with enormous flow-on effects.

    • Puckish Rogue 16.3
      8 February 2022 at 3:36 pm

      Well I'm in the preliminary stages of planning of doing most of the Central Otago Rail trail by foot (except for Middlemarch to Hyde which will be on bike) again but this time adding in Clyde to Cromwell so hes got my vote

      • Robert Guyton 16.3.1
        8 February 2022 at 3:44 pm

        Pucky – enjoy.

        • Puckish Rogue 16.3.1.1
          8 February 2022 at 3:47 pm

          Don't worry I've walked the rail trail before (my moms family were based around Middlemarch), I particularly enjoyed the Chatto Creek pub

          Sometimes I just like walking without having to do any thinking about where I'm going or what I'm doing and the trail is perfect for that

          • lprent 16.3.1.1.1
            8 February 2022 at 4:56 pm

            Wish I could. But my walking/tramping days are well over due to a worn out right big toe.

            Unfortunately my partner has a phobia about cycling due to cycling to high school in the middle of winter in Southland. Her descriptions of the clothes she used to ride with (welding gloves!) remind me of the tales of Niflheim.

            I thought that getting damp in Auckland was bad enough.

            • weka 16.3.1.1.1.1
              8 February 2022 at 5:09 pm

              Hitting black ice isn't fun on a bike. Or coming off a bike either, so to speak.

            • Puckish Rogue 16.3.1.1.1.2
              8 February 2022 at 5:13 pm

              Thats a shame though understandable.

              I'm quite looking forward to trying an e-bike on the trail…and the burgers (fuel is very important)

              https://www.coffeeafloat.co.nz/burgerafloat

              • alwyn …
                8 February 2022 at 5:38 pm

                You do realise that it is moored out in the lake and that you are required to swim out to get the food? That will be fun with the temperature of that glacier fed lake won't it?

                So I have been told anyway.

                • mary_a …
                  8 February 2022 at 8:26 pm

                  Not always alwyn. I've seen it moored in the water, right beside the rail trail between Cromwell and Clyde many times.

                  • alwyn …
                    8 February 2022 at 8:33 pm

                    Sorry Mary. I thought the last line would warn people I was joking.

                    My sister has informed me that I was wrong and that she read it as a serious, but wrong comment.

          • Graeme 16.3.1.1.2
            8 February 2022 at 5:28 pm

            It's a great walk, the pubs are about the right distance apart and will look after you. Recommend doing it in late autumn or early winter, the weather is generally really good but can be a bit cool and there's hardly anyone around. Just you, Central and the big sky. If you can, try and do one of the really isolated flat bits on a clear night.

    • Blade 16.4
      8 February 2022 at 3:54 pm

      Crikey – a new e-bike! Now all I have to do is get myself pregnant, do a JAG, and bike to hospital for the delivery.

      However, being that it's a e-bike, I will travel from Wellington Central to Manukau to bolster party support on the way.

      The 'Green Way' is the only way…it's about proper use of resources.

    • weka 16.5
      8 February 2022 at 5:08 pm

      Now he's promised everyone in the country a new e-bike. Got my vote!

      Luxon or Mallard?

  17. observer 17
    8 February 2022 at 3:13 pm

    Civil war breaking out in the convoy: freedom versus Brian.

    https://twitter.com/MarkHubbard33/status/1490870743357595649

    • gsays 17.1
      8 February 2022 at 3:51 pm

      Thanks for that link.

      Wow, this protest convoy is way more popular than a 'fringe', 'nutter', 'self-serving fools' or 'loopy' descriptor would have you believe.

      The videos in the stream show a wide rang of support on the sides of the roads around the country. The veteran saluting is a wonderful image.

      The support and aroha from outside the protest is inspiring; "This is what NZ is. Complete strangers gave us a bed for a night. Fed everyone in the convoy at Woodville. They are such amazing people. She lost her job but opened her home to us"

  18. McFlock 18
    8 February 2022 at 4:14 pm

    There's a new app that helps you do your own research.

    Much better than actual research, might recommend we use it at work.

  19. Peter 19
    8 February 2022 at 4:20 pm

    If anyone on here knows the silly woman in the protest today with the placard, "Sacrifice the kids to save the elderly – Really???," tell her not to worry. If someone as dumb as her gets into power they might take simply sacrifice the old for the young. How about taking houses off all the old people for a start, why should the young be disadvantaged?

  20. Drowsy M. Kram 20
    8 February 2022 at 4:38 pm

    Interesting National Geographic article on the development and use of a new imaging (scanning) technique to explore the effects of ageing and diseases on internal organs.

    World’s brightest x-rays reveal COVID-19’s damage to the body [27 Jan. 2022]

  21. Blade 21
    8 February 2022 at 4:59 pm

    Nutty dangerous Greens at it again. This is why I have a problem with the politics and agendas behind many so called innocuous social changes in society.

    Once one agenda is fulfilled, things creep forward again, and we get this.

    https://www.teaomaori.news/exclusive-green-party-push-return-private-land-under-tiriti-settlements

    • weka 21.1
      8 February 2022 at 5:02 pm

      Blade, can you please let me know if you read Lprent's moderation of your comment yesterday?

    • weka 21.2
      8 February 2022 at 5:04 pm
      1. An inquiry into the dispossession of whenua;
      2. Revisiting settlements for the adequacy of redress;
      3. Additional redress at the level of whānau, hapū and Māori collectives, outside the Treaty settlement process; and
      4. Enabling the crown to return land that is not owned by the Crown.

      What's the problem with those? Seems not only reasonable but useful in terms of resolving some ongoing issues of poverty and other negative effects of colonisation.

      • Blade 21.2.1
        8 February 2022 at 5:19 pm

        Again, on the surface there is nothing wrong with those points. They even look noble and fair. But:

        1-''An inquiry into the dispossession of whenua.''

        If we are going down that track we must include Maori having lost land to Maori by conquest. Those land losses still cause angst between tribes.

        2 -''Revisiting settlements for the adequacy of redress''

        Yes, Ngai Tahu has gone to the well of money 4 times. Why not more? Young Maori talk of modern treaty breaches and settlements.?

        3-Additional redress at the level of whānau, hapū and Māori collectives, outside the Treaty settlement process

        Why not. Our local hapu received close to a million dollars for Marae development. That is an endless cash cow taxpayers will be paying for.

        McDonalds just arrived will . Will get back to you.

        • weka 21.2.1.1
          8 February 2022 at 6:04 pm

          1-''An inquiry into the dispossession of whenua.''

          If we are going down that track we must include Maori having lost land to Maori by conquest. Those land losses still cause angst between tribes.

          wouldn't that be up to Iwi? Are any Iwi or Hapū wanting this?

          2 -''Revisiting settlements for the adequacy of redress''

          Yes, Ngai Tahu has gone to the well of money 4 times. Why not more? Young Maori talk of modern treaty breaches and settlements.?

          Full and final was a bullshit political decision made by National that had nothing to do with fairness or reality. Many of us have always expected that to be revisited.

          If the Crown breaches the Treaty now, then of course that should be addressed.

          3-Additional redress at the level of whānau, hapū and Māori collectives, outside the Treaty settlement process

          Why not. Our local hapu received close to a million dollars for Marae development. That is an endless cash cow taxpayers will be paying for.

          You say that like it's a bad thing. What's wrong with government funding for Marae? What's wrong with the government giving money to Māori going forward in the same way that they give money to other people?

        • Tricledrown 21.2.1.2
          9 February 2022 at 11:59 am

          Blade you overlook the signed legal document.

          Conferring rights of British citizenship and its protections the legality of land transfers.Maori didn't have lawyers representing them as no one wanted to .

          Until the church stepped in in the 1880's to stop the unscrupulous land grabs taking place.Pushing Maori to the bottom of the heap.

          The reparations for stolen land are only 1 to 3% of their value .They don't include loss of income or the power of owning large parcels of expensive land

          If Moari got full compensation they would be the rich and powerful not requiring economic support.

          Then the shoe would be on the other foot and maybe you would be complaining Maori are too rich and don't share or care.

    • Robert Guyton 21.3
      8 February 2022 at 5:06 pm

      Change can be scary, Blade!

      And the DANGER! The Exclusive Brethren warned us about The Greens, but did we listen???

      Who knows where all this is leading?

      • Blade 21.3.1
        8 February 2022 at 5:30 pm

        Were its leading is the confiscation of private property from people who would have bought that property in good faith. Monetary compensation as Maori say, is not always acceptable.

        Western culture is built on private property rights. Without that we aren't 1st world. We join South Africa, Tibet and Rhodesia.

        You do understand, Robert. Just imagine getting the boot from your food forest. A couple of bros turn up and say ''We''ll take it from here, bugger off!"

        Not good.

        • McFlock 21.3.1.1
          8 February 2022 at 5:38 pm

          So if I buy a car in good faith and it turns out to be stolen, I get to keep it?

          • Blade 21.3.1.1.1
            8 February 2022 at 6:59 pm

            No, of course you don't get to keep it. That's plain stupid.

            • weka 21.3.1.1.1.1
              8 February 2022 at 7:07 pm

              why doesn't that apply to land?

              • Blade …
                8 February 2022 at 7:16 pm

                Because its historical. In all cases litigants are dead. Accounts differ. Historical records differ. Different hapu within iwi have different versions of the same history. Agendas are in play. The crown has contested some land claims in court.

                You should see the Maori land court in action.

                Of course this does not apply to all land claims – some are clear cut. There is no argument.

        • weka 21.3.1.2
          8 February 2022 at 6:07 pm

          Methinks you are making shit up. If you have evidence that the Greens are proposing the Crown confiscates private land, please show it now.

          Besides, the Crown already confiscates private land with compensation via the Public Works Act, for stupid shit like building tourism roads. I don't think that's a useful approach here, but let's not pretend there aren't precedents.

          • Blade 21.3.1.2.1
            8 February 2022 at 7:08 pm

            Yeah, I'm an expert on land loss from the PWA …and GENUINE historical land loss. And our land was taken for a road extension that never happened.

            ''Methinks you are making shit up. If you have evidence that the Greens are proposing the Crown confiscates private land, please show it now.''

            From the link:

            Exclusive: Green Party push to return private land under Tiriti settlements.

            I wrote:

            ''Where it's leading is the confiscation of private property from people who would have bought that property in good faith. Monetary compensation as Maori say, is not always acceptable.''

            That's confiscation. But you may have missed the implied compensation for the land. That said, it's still confiscation in my view.

        • Robert Guyton 21.3.1.3
          8 February 2022 at 6:09 pm

          You truly are scared, Blade!

          Mostly by the shadows cast in your own mind.

          "A couple of bros…"

          Terrifying! Shocking!

          Coming soon, to a theatre near you, yes YOU!!!

          • Blade 21.3.1.3.1
            8 February 2022 at 7:11 pm

            You are dribbling again, Robert.

            Put a bib on and hope someone comes along to feed you.

            • Robert Guyton 21.3.1.3.1.1
              8 February 2022 at 9:20 pm

              "Blade…

              8 February 2022 at 4:48 pm

              I will talk for myself without the need for sarcasm and snide remarks"

            • Tricledrown 21.3.1.3.1.2
              9 February 2022 at 12:27 pm

              Blade Colonization 101.make the conquered look bad belligerent dehumanised,

              Your comment is pure racism send a couple of bros around.

              When National put the $2 billion cap on settlements and only trivially compensated Maori connected to their tribe,deliberately dividing rural Maori with urban Maori who have suffered the worst of colonisation .

              Poverty,Crime,health,education ,political representation.legal representation.

              At every opportunity the rich and powerful who have benefited the most from Stolen lands ,Deliberately denegrate Maori for political purposes

              While the majority of Maori got nothing but benefit cuts, unions were busted under National.Making life for Maori more difficult.

              Had Maori got full compensation NZ would go to the top of the OECD in wealth and lack of poverty and inequality.

              Maori have been screwed over and over in their country .

              If Maori had maintained rightful ownership of their land you Blade would not be making such horrible comments.

      • Tricledrown 21.3.2
        9 February 2022 at 12:00 pm

        Protests by the EB and Destiny Church outside Parliament pushing Qanon bs.

  22. McFlock 22
    8 February 2022 at 5:28 pm

    So stuff reckon "thousands" at parliament, while RNZ said "hundreds". Either way, seems most of the impact of from the obnoxious road use.

    Funny detail from Stuff:

    Teenagers in school uniform chanted "wear your mask", while protesters retorted with a sheep like “baa”.

    Guess who the adults are.

  23. JO 23
    8 February 2022 at 7:03 pm

    That's brilliantly straight-faced presentation that someone with a Twitter account might like to add to the Freedum convoy's hectic thread. Some might even take it literally and agree with the excellent advice offered. Such fun.

    Far from 'us lefties' making a serious mistake by responding with ridicule, as Weka said earlier, sometimes it's the best and only way to deal with all the idiocracies. It might not make them go away or change many minds, but whether it's a great cartoon, a parody song, an alternative lipreading or a Tui Billboard (Bring Them Back!), a good belly laugh is better medication than yet another growl of annoyance or despairing sigh. A solid dose of ridicule is good for our mental health.
    (Sorry, this is a reply to McFlock @ 18)

    • Stuart Munro 23.1
      8 February 2022 at 10:14 pm

      There are good historical precedents for ridiculing folk that exhibit a degree of sociopathy. Hitler is said to have been especially displeased with kiwi cartoonist, David Low |since those who had learned to laugh at him weren't going to march for him any time soon.

      For the Covidiocy virus, laughter may indeed be the best medicine.