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Open mike 08/09/2022

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, September 8th, 2022 - 73 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:


Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

73 comments on “Open mike 08/09/2022 ”

  1. Jester 1

    Mallard leaves us with yet another unnecessary legal bill.

    Mallard's legal bill revealed: Cost to taxpayers of trespassing Peters from Parliament (msn.com)

    It's very easy to spend money when it is not yours and you have no responsibility for it.

    • Johnr 1.1

      It was certainly a dum move by Mallard. But, one also has to be utterly disgusted at the criminal costs of legal advice.

    • Jenny are we there yet 1.2

      Sheet the bill back to Mallard. Let him pay it off at $500 a week. I am sure he can afford it. It wouldn't be a hardship on his salary.
      It would take the wind out of the sails of the Nats, narrative that,' Labour are irresponsible tax and spend wastrels.'

      It would make a good example, that there will be no impunity for any future MP who might be tempted to copy Mallard's impulsive hotheaded track record.
      That there will be consequences for reckless hotheaded behaviour, might give pause for thought before acting impulsively.

    • Jimmy 1.3

      At least this one is only $23.5k compared with accusing someone falsely of rape and costing $330k!

  2. PsyclingLeft.Always 2

    California temperatures hit record 46C, power grid threatened

    The hottest day of the heatwave was expected to be today, and California Governor Gavin Newsom said the risk of power outages was real and immediate.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/world/474284/california-temperatures-hit-record-46c-power-grid-threatened

    Sacremento City. Hotter than 46 C ? Fark that is intense. Its all gathering dangerous momentum.

  3. Sabine 3

    This too is going to be funny, it kind of reminds of Baghdad after the US invaded as detailed by a young women on this blog here. http://riverbendblog.blogspot.com/

    They kind of had like 2 – 4 hours electricity a day.

  4. Sanctuary 4

    "…“We haven’t lost anything and we won’t lose anything,” said Putin, when asked about the cost of the invasion…"

    Thus we hear the eternal and genuine contempt of fascist dictatorships to the value of human life.

    Imagine hearing that if you are the mother, father, sibling or wife of one of Russia's dead. 50,000 nothings to Putin.

  5. Ad 5

    From below, 38,000 members of Oathkeepers are named including hundreds of current serving and past Police and US military: current Sherriffs, and Chiefs of Police, and serving Army.

    Report finds alleged link between Oath Keepers, public officials (msnbc.com)

    From above, 8 formers US Secretaries of Defence and five former Chairs of the Joint Chiefs of the US military set out in a joint letter the principles of civilian control and the peaceful handover of power in their democracy.

    To Support and Defend: Principles of Civilian Control and Best Practices of Civil-Military Relations – War on the Rocks

    This is far, far deeper than Trump's insurrection though it is certainly that.

    This is instability across military and civil society that has rocked the US government institutions to their very core.

    Trump has permanently degraded America, but the Deep State is also abetting him.

  6. Peter 7

    The world of professional sport:

    Football club Chelsea sacked coach Thomas Tuchelon on Wednesday night six games into the season. Hired in January 2021, Tuchelhad success. He took his team to the FA Cup final and EFL Cup final last season. Tuchel won the Champions League with Chelsea in that first season as well as claiming two minor trophies.

    His team lost to Dinamo Zagreb in the Champions League this week.

    American owner Todd Boehly seemingly can't tolerate being a loser. A new ownership group spent around NZ$514 to be winners.

    Funny that you can splash all the money in the world around but human foibles and performance don't necessarily reach a zenith just on money. And does someone spending NZ$514 million and playing a team which has spent $515 million necessarily win?

    I look forward to seeing results with Chelsea not winning. That dimension certainly makes sport entertaining.

    Of course the lack of tolerance for losing and the lack of understanding and tolerance of the nature of human performance in sport is germane to our sports debate.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/premier-league-chelsea-stun-football-world-after-new-owners-axe-thomas-tuchel/E2CUL2KKFX2DYKTI6VEK7PNOYI/

  7. Stephen D 8

    Luxon really has no shame.

    From RNZ

    “How many students are wagging school?

    Earlier this week National Party leader Christopher Luxon told Morning Report 100,000 children were chronically truant.

    This is incorrect.”

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/474365/figures-reveal-how-many-students-are-wagging-school

    Just manipulated the numbers. Wonder if he did the same running Air NZ.

  8. Molly 9

    In April, the ECHR in the UK, did what many governments, legislators and policy makers have resisted doing and published guidelines regarding the law and the provision of single sex spaces.

    Nineteen LGBT+ groups, including Stonewall, have also called on the Global Alliance of National Human Rights Institutions to strip the EHRC of its A-rating as a human rights body. – Vice (link below)

    The most relevant points are:

    • The Equality Act allows for the provision of separate or single sex services in certain circumstances under ‘exceptions’ relating to sex.
    • To establish a separate or single-sex service, you must show that you meet at least one of a number of statutory conditions (set out in this section of the guide) and that limiting the service on the basis of sex is a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim. For example, a legitimate aim could be for reasons of privacy, decency, to prevent trauma or to ensure health and safety. You must then be able to show that your action is a proportionate way of achieving that aim.

    A protest against this – commended by allies such as Billy Bragg and applauded as 'art' by others, took place outside the Equality and Human Rights Commission (EHRC) last Friday afternoon.

    Please take time to read the protestors concerns and intentions, before viewing the photos before telling me this is not a display of a combination of sexual paraphilias.

    https://www.vice.com/en/article/jgpj5y/pissed-off-trannies-ehrc-protest

    Vice's tweet – and comments:

    • Visubversa 9.1

      Nothing more ridiculous than a bunch of blokes in frocks and masks pouring piss on themselves.

      Hopefully a demonstration of "peak Trans" and it is all downhill from there.

      • Sabine 9.1.1

        Well it is a sign of alpha w-manliness to mark ones territory and let everyone know that a w-man was here. , and I as otherother / person /people/ folx/ non male/ non penis haver totally would have no issues with this 'w-man' pissing all over the toilets, changing rooms, into the pool, and elsewhere, after all that is what 'w-man' do. Right, pissing on the rights of people not them.

        In saying that someone should advise this w-man to his water intake, cause that piss is brown and that can't healthy.

  9. Farrar is a slimeball, exhibit #86459

    • Molly 10.1

      I don't think this is an appropriate sentence for the crimes committed, despite the slur on government.

      Can we just acknowledge that certain people have certain patterns of mendacious behaviour, and then discuss the issue of why we agree/disagree with the sentence?

      For me, it is the knowledge of the impact of sexual assault on victims, that often isolates them at home for much longer than nine months, that provides dissatisfaction with nine months home detention. Incarceration that doesn't provide a solid attempt to change behaviour is also not the full answer.

      Does NZ have any successful programmes running in our Justice and prison systems at the moment?

      • roblogic 10.1.1

        David Seymour thinks ankle bracelets are the solution

        • Sabine 10.1.1.1

          yeah, why not? Honestly, what would you do? What should be done?

          Nothing?

          • Muttonbird 10.1.1.1.1

            Isn't it already being done? I would have thought a sentence of home detention includes an ankle bracelet.

            Perhaps chemical castration? Why not surgical castration? Castrate all men in fact; we are rapists inside after all. s/

            • Sabine 10.1.1.1.1.1

              5 – 10 percent of all humans male – or female (sex based not gender based) are capable of horrendous crimes against other people. They rape, they kill, they torture, and they cause mayhem for others.

              95 – 90% of all humans male or female (sex based not gender based) to not cause any harm to anyone but have a good chance of being made a victim by the minority.

              Someone who at 16 years old has raped and assaulted 5 young girls (15 years old and girls as in human female child – sex based) should not be given home d. But should be sent to a. prison or b. a mental clinic until they are no longer a risk to society and have paid their debt to those that were given a life time sentence of living with the after math of having been raped.

              But feel free to run around pretending/insinuating/stating that ALL men are rapists that should be chemically castrated or surgically castrated should they be found guilty of raping 4 girls aged 15 and assaulting another girl. Heck why don’t you write a nice letter to the nice people who set sentencing and outline your proposal to them. See how that would work out for you and report back to us.

              • Incognito

                For someone who loves to use sarcasm as a weapon tool you seem unable dealing with it when someone else reciprocates with it.

            • Jimmy 10.1.1.1.1.2

              Singapore has a very low crime rate. We should look at what they do different to us.

              • Robert Guyton

                Speak Chinese?

                • Macro

                  As well as Malay and English. Three main languages there, much of the signage is in Malay, and most of the place names. It is after all a small island at the bottom of the Malaysian peninsula, and only a 1/2 hour drive across the causeway. 🙂

                  Had a 2 year posting there and learnt a bit of Malay. On a holiday trip back from Penang Island we asked the overland taxi driver at Butterworth to take us to the Cameron Highlands, All was going good but there was much discussion between the taxi drivers who had heard our request and then some hurried transition of our luggage from the initial taxi to another. When I asked what was going on, it was revealed that the first taxi driver thought I had asked to go to Thailand!

                  It was a ride I shall never forget. It helped to keep my eyes closed for most of the journey. Fortunately Allah was looking out for us and we arrived shaken but not stirred.

                  The Cameron Highlands has some of the most beautiful butterflies I have ever seen, and they were everywhere.

        • Incognito 10.1.1.2

          David Seymour says ankle bracelets are the solution

          FIFY

        • Stephen D 10.1.1.3

          Most teens would wear them as a badge of honour. TikTok and Snapchat would be full of it.

          Hardly a deterrent, or punishment.

          Even Graham Lowe, who you wouldn’t call a bleeding heart wokester, thinks it’s a bad idea.

          https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/09/new-zealand-rugby-league-great-sir-graham-lowe-criticises-act-s-idea-to-put-youth-offenders-who-commit-serious-crimes-in-ankle-bracelets.amp.html

        • Molly 10.1.1.4

          Seymour is not someone I would consider able to provide solutions or considerations of worth on this issue.

          In terms of solutions or informative discussion, there's little achieved by pointing out him acting true to character.

          • roblogic 10.1.1.4.1

            Was a facetious response to the question

            Does NZ have any successful programmes running in our Justice and prison systems at the moment?

            It is a privilege not to have to interact with the criminal justice system and know nothing about the Corrections programmes

            • Molly 10.1.1.4.1.1

              I wasn’t being disingenuous.

              Looking more for the stats or data regarding the outcomes, rather than what you linked to.

              Searching for statistics, it's easy to find stats on prevalence etc, but not so easy to find programmes with supporting data for perpetrators or victims.

              Do you have any links for such?

              • roblogic

                There is no simple answer or we'd already be doing it.

                IMHO a large proportion of offending stems from the intergenerational trauma of Maori displacement. And another component is the systemic fallout of predatory capitalism, trapping people in a cycle of deprivation. As well as other factors like mental health, literacy rates, addiction, abuse.

                The Nordic model appears to be reasonably effective, but it relies upon a certain type of society, and political will.

                • roblogic

                  To clarify the second para from above…

                  Left-wing governments are more likely to mitigate the worst inequality and actually invest in people over profit… so long term, vote Left to reduce crime.

                  National likes to talk about getting tough but their plans (harsher sentences, more violent cops) are not backed by evidence, they are all just photo ops and tend to backfire.

                  • Molly

                    You are correct in this. Just looking for some form of hard data in terms of how successful this approach is.

                    And don't be so quick to label people privileged just because they have no interaction with the justice system.

                    In my closest circle of female friends, none have interacted with the justice department, one was physically abused by both parents, two had their virginity stolen via sexual assault. One when they were a small child.

                    It'd be great is some of that compassion and understanding on the left remained for those who are not politically identified as vulnerable minorities, who are injured and suffer nonetheless.

                    • roblogic

                      Sorry for the implication, I am also privileged to avoid the Courts etc. In the light of the horrific stats against women and girls (and the difficulty of adolescence), little wonder that some are desperate to avoid predators by identifying into another gender.

              • I agree that it's not easy to find data.

                Here's a meta study from Canada – evaluating the recidivism rate of adolescent sexual offenders who have completed rehabilitation programmes, with those who dropped out, and those who never participated.

                https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8548636/

                • Molly

                  Thanks, Belladonna.

                  Just aware there are many different programmes, and although they are often announced with great fanfare and promise, follow up information and data about attendees, costs, outcomes etc are hard to find.

                  There has been a follow up article with a response from the crown prosecutor, but even that is low on details regarding which programme the convicted rapist will be expected to attend (if indeed it is a specific sexual assault programme). Perhaps if those details were provided, and were able to be assessed as having a reasonable chance of success, people would be more accepting of the sentence.

                  https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/474427/why-prosecutor-didn-t-seek-prison-term-for-bay-of-plenty-teen-rapist

                  Growing anger surrounding the sentence has prompted public protests – planned for this afternoon – in cities across the North Island.

                  This afternoon, Tauranga's Crown Solicitor Anna Pollett defended the sentence, explaining that a "rehabilitative approach is to protect the community in the long term from re-offending".

                  "In the circumstances of this prosecution, and in careful consideration of all the available material, the Crown did not oppose a sentence of home detention to balance the need for accountability and deterrence while also maximising the opportunity for intensive rehabilitation of the young person," Pollett said, in a rare statement from a Crown Solicitor.

                  The sentence, she also mentioned, included numerous conditions to ensure compliance and engagement with the rehabilitation programme.

                  This includes post-detention conditions and court-imposed judicial monitoring which Pollett said "adds a further layer of scrutiny to ensure compliance with the sentence".

      • Sabine 10.1.2

        The question really is where is the government currently in regards to crime, assault, murder, sexual assault, theft, ramraids and so on and so forth.

        Keeping non violent offenders out of prison and have them in home detention is laudable and should be used as much as possible. I am all in favor.

        But a 16 year old raping 4 girls that is not normal teenage male behavior

        https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/teenager-jayden-meyer-sentenced-to-nine-months-home-detention-after-raping-four-15-year-old-girls/D6IWSUPAWWA7Q5TBPZ4BRLZRMQ/

        Meyer, who has no criminal history, pleaded not guilty to all charges but was later found guilty.

        A psychologist, who saw Meyer 30 times during the prosecution, found he had a medium risk of reoffending, and continues to minimize the effect of his crimes.

        I guess that non male human beings that are biological uterus/cervix/fallopian tubes and ovary havers need to understand the value society and our law / order / justice complex has for them vs rapists. Like none. No value, what so ever.

    • Sabine 10.2

      A 16 year old raping 4 girls plus assaulting another one, should in fact be given a reward for his manliness and prowess. Anything else would just be too upsetting for the rapist. s/

      • Robert Guyton 10.2.1

        That's not sarcasm, Sabine, that's unnecessarily triggering provocation, with no humorous or wry aspect whatsoever. Sarcasm should at least entertain, imo.

        • Molly 10.2.1.1

          It's a wry analysis of the outcome for perpetrators and victims of sexual violence.

          It's very difficult and distressing to get convictions.

          Sentences of home detention agreed to by the crown prosecutor when as Sabine quotes above:

          "A psychologist, who saw Meyer 30 times during the prosecution, found he had a medium risk of reoffending, and continues to minimize the effect of his crimes."

          is not an indictment on the whole system, but may be indicative of a perspective that requires investigation. I think it does.

        • Sabine 10.2.1.2

          My answer is to the comment above on the Farrar tweet. It is not ment to be nice.

          Farrar is Farrar and will do as Farrar did and has done since ever.

          But to minimise the damage this young bloke did to the 5 girls in order to schtup a person with whom one disagrees one politically is despicable. Life long damage as i can assure you in no uncertain terms. My rapist is now dead and thanks god for that, and he raped me almost 50 years ago. And the damage is still there and it still hurts. Lifelong sentence for the victim and a nothing for the rapist. Now that is kindness.

          And yes, where is the our government? the 'suicide' prevention government? the 'be kind' government when it comes to rape and sexual assault of girls/women? Oh they girls/women (sex based not gender based) are not marginalised and vulnerable enough? Are they even human?

          What does it say about the so-called left that it can not ask where the justice is in this ruling. Justice for the girls. Justice for the community. Justice for the families of these girls?

          And yes, that dude got exactly that what i wrote. A wee slap on the hand, after all they could not let that dude that has a medium risk of re-offending, and has shown no remorse be locked up for a few years. They are letting him go out again in a few month from his traumatising experience of home D and if he rapes again, oh well who could / would / should have known that, and did he not learn his lesson?

  10. Susie Ferguson is a Taonga, pulling up Luxon in the middle of his Gish gallop

  11. "Repeat the Lies Luxon" knows people remember the meme. True or Not!!

    (I am glad to see Ad doing some decent posts on the Government and making suggestions. Well done Ad.)

    Suzy is great. she cuts to the chase!! She could have said "Where are you getting those figures from? They are wrong"

    Now we need to build in a strategy to "call out" distortions and outright Lies.

    Plus the Election has started.!!!!!

    I have increased my regular donation to Labour by a third. I suggest every supporter give a small amount regularly, as then Labour can plan their campaign.

    Say if you will provide a billboard spot, if you can do other tasks. If you don't want Luxon as our next Leader, start the fighting fund and planning.

  12. Sabine 13

    I have said the exact same thing some time ago. that the warehousing of our poor in motels is nothing more then a hiding of a problem and a huge transfer of government funds to private businesses that run run down motels.

    For the weekly cost of housing a desperate family in one of these hovels the government could have literally rented a house of the free market and saved some money.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/lizzie-marvelly-motel-emergency-housing-vulnerable-treated-like-cash-cows-turning-rotorua-into-a-dumping-ground/O2OQEVQQJXF42I7N67PVN53EXA/

    happy to see this now out in the open. I don't believe much will change, and those that recently have lost their properties rented or owned will themselves find that a run down motel unit is the best they will find for a long long time to come. But then the government pays what ever is asked, don't ask questions, just carry on. Let's keep moving. To where? Who cares.

    • Sabine the problem is old, in my lifetime I have seen building on the current scale once!! That was in the 70s. The number of houses is not enough, but the changes made mean apartment blocks are able to be built in all centers near transport. The solution is not magic, but did need central government change as Rotorua had 1500 consents over years!! They were mainly top end houses, not social houses.

      Your suggestion of build to rent subsidised Government housing is practised in Australian States. Yes I agree that would help, but the government could not join an overheated market and make it worse. Now prices have begun to stabilise they have a chance to buy into a falling market to provide homes from failed airb&b landlords.

    • roblogic 13.2

      I guess we should just vote for the guy that will magically make all these problems disappear. By selling off state housing and ignoring all the people sleeping rough and celebrating a rock star economy and hoping the bottom feeders will just go away.

      Or, we could acknowledge that there is a housing shortage and at the same time an unprecedented government response in facilitating 10,000+ new state houses in the last 5 years.

      HUD NZ Housing dashboard

    • roblogic 13.3

      Despite media wailing, the Government is NOT "hiding the problem" FFS.

      Minister Woods was in Rotorua just last week.

      • Sabine 13.3.1

        Yes. one house – and these are a tiny fraction bigger then a tiny house has now found someone to live in.

        the rest are still empty.

        All three houses are up the road from us. The property was knocked down three years ago, stood empty for a bout a year and half and took a year and a half to be build. With that speed in the year 2300 we will have housed all the Motel Citizens of NZ. Drip Drip Drip some water on a hot stone.
        Never mind the future climate refugees such as those that have lost their properties in the recent floods up and down the country.

        • roblogic 13.3.1.1

          I find it more productive to turn on the light rather than curse the darkness.

          • Sabine 13.3.1.1.1

            If you want to celebrate these three tiny houses on one section with three carparks and a rug of 'grass' behind the shed (they are about double garage sized houses) then go ahead and consider it success.

            Again, i live not far from this success and i know how well they are build (lol) and how big they are – two tiny bedrooms, toilet/shower and a kitchen-living, and these houses will be rented to people with kids.

            The only grace these houses have is that schools are in walking distance and hopefully some of the reserve that the Council wants to sell to private developpers for 'low income housing' will be preserved for the future poor to have a bit of an outdoor space, and the next supermarket is about 3 kms walking distance form these properties, if one does not have enough money for a bus. Town is about an hours walk away.

            We initially thought that hese properties were for hte retired, and i would actully consider them perfect for that group of people. However pushing 3 – 5 people into a barely 45 sqm 'house' *3 i.e. 12 – 15 people plus a few cars on a section that used to have 1 Kainga Ora house on it will bring its own problems.

            I understand the desperation. I watched Auckland during the N years, and now i get to watch Rotorua during the L years, and you know what, it is hard very hard to find a difference.

            For what its worth, the whole of downtown Rotorua could be knocked down and rebuild. ITs either abandoned, or not earthquake save, empty shops everywhere. Now that would be something. Re-design the town centre to be pedestrian / cyclist friendly, ground floor shops and above those three floors of apartments. You would not need to re-develop, utilities would already be there, water/sewerage etc all at hand, and you would revive your town centre.

            The country needs to re-think housing as a whole. Cost of build, rents, sizes 1 bdrm / studio to 5 bedrm, cheap monthly rents, next to shops, schools, medical centres etc etc etc.

            That is not what we are doing. In this case, we build three very small houses on one section to house up to 15+ people in.

            In fact it would have been better to build these properties up two stories. And i can see these houses be demolished in a few years to do exactly that.

    • roblogic 13.4

      Are you getting these talking points from talkback radio? I was talking to a mate a couple of days ago who was saying similar stuff about Rotovegas and asking "where is Jacinda?!!11!!"

      She's overseas at the moment, so I guess it is time for the Nat's mouthpieces to moan that she isn't visiting their pet projects.

    • SPC 13.5

      The government probably decided to use the motels because of the lockdowns and lack of tourists.

      It's past time to move on

      1. rent some from landlords at market rates and charge income related rents to tenants
      2. buy some (at the right place and price – some for later building intensification, even if just a factory built subdivision at the back) and rent out.
      3. buy and build a granny flat and on-sell (to families with parents).

      Otherwise make it easier for mobile homes to be located on sections (either for children of parents or parents of children).

  13. Stephen D 14

    Aesop said that a man is known by the company he keeps.

    Now we all know where, and with whom, he stands.

    "The meeting was hosted by Unify NZ, a local group that is aligned to a number of anti-mandate/anti-vax groups such as Voices for Freedom and Convoy 2022. The audience, as demonstrated during question time, was a mix of diehard NZ First supporters and right-wing conspiracy theorists."

    https://www.localmatters.co.nz/mahurangi-news/audience-gets-its-moneys-worth-from-peters-rhetoric/?fbclid=IwAR3HRuD_ub_PqVfrvSTFTl20gQp-EmfY8m9NP8suB57NJfuW7xGwtDjqQk8

  14. AB 15

    What is it about free school lunches that triggers right wingers so badly? The NZ Herald has revived its attacks on the school lunch programme. Is it the thought of some little brown kids getting a meal and maybe feeling happy and keen to learn – rather than knowing their place and pulling themselves up by their non-existent bootstraps? Is it the thought of working class parents saving maybe $25 a week per child to spend on other necessities? God knows – but it is a peculiarly intense example of their vileness.

    • roblogic 15.1

      All I saw was some spoilt kids complaining because they don't like kumara, and saying the menu was crap. They are lucky to have a choice.

    • Anne 15.2

      It's not the first time NZ has had a school lunch programme. When I was a kid – admittedly a long time ago – our Mums used to take it in turns to 'do' the school lunches for those kids who regularly came to school with no lunch. We're talking about parents on very low wages who couldn’t afford them. No big deal. It was what you did back in the day. I presume each school had an allocation of money to keep the programme going.

  15. Ad 16

    Shoutout to Willie Lose.

    Former rugby international and commentator Willie Los'e dies aged 55 – NZ Herald

    He was second speaker at the Kelston Boys debating team back in the day, and it was always fun to go against the Kelston Girls team.

    So Willie was pretty buff from all that First 15 Rugby gym training, and the topic was "That some things are best left to men". Good ground for a boys against the girls afternoon fun contest in the early 1980s.

    You can get the tenor of the school by noting that Graham Henry was both Principal and Auckland Rugby Coach at the same time.

    We oiled Willie up in coconut oil and he only wore a lavalava for that debate, so he could deliver Second Speaker with a bit of panache. He made his pecs talk to each other.

    Sure went down well at the Kelston Girls auditorium.

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