Open mike 08/10/2019

94 comments on “Open mike 08/10/2019 ”

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1. Velcro 1

   8 October 2019 at 7:32 am

   For the sake of the NZ economy, hence the wellbeing of Kiwis, one can only hope OMV are successful in their drilling off the South Island

   [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
   
   • Psycho Milt 1.1

     8 October 2019 at 8:44 am

     The economy is only temporarily enhanced by oil extraction (ie, in terms of the length of time we'd like Homo Sapiens to be endemic to Aotearoa, the decades of benefit from oil extraction are a brief sugar rush) and "wellbeing of Kiwis" isn't enhanced by causing rapid change in the global climate, which is what burning fossil fuels does.
     • Peter 1 1.1.1

       8 October 2019 at 5:15 pm

       I hope they do not find a lot of oil because if the do the Americans will want to

       bring us democracy.
   • Drowsy M. Kram 1.2

     8 October 2019 at 9:25 am

     "It is time to reimagine how we can make a difference. It makes sense economically and strategically, and is expected by all our stakeholders. But most importantly, it is simply the right thing to do."

     https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2019/09/beyond-business-as-usual-addressing-the-climate-change-crisis/
   • Dukeofurl 1.3

     8 October 2019 at 11:24 am

     Velcro doesnt seem to know that Paula Bennett and Simon Bridges – as Climate change ministers went to Paris and signed NZ up to the agreements to reduce greenhouse gases below 2005 levels by 30% by 2030.

     Its a financial penalty year by year, when they arent met so it costs , mostly the taxpayer, nearly $1 bill per year every year the numbers are above ,as they still are, the treaty targets.

     Its in your interest velcro for OMV not to find anything
     • Macro 1.3.1

       8 October 2019 at 3:32 pm

       Exactly
   • Stuart Munro. 1.4

     8 October 2019 at 12:57 pm

     There would be something in the argument if NZ retained a substantial proportion of the value of any discovery, but sadly, under the feckless governance of the Key Kleptocracy the NZ share of any discovered petroleum fell to somewhere around 5%.

     Sourcing our oil from the middle east causes us ongoing trade deficits and exposes us to price shocks arising from political instability. No meaningful steps have been taken to mitigate this – we are still substantially a full-on petroeconomy.
2. Herodotus 2

   8 October 2019 at 7:36 am

   The Prime Minister says she would never stop people from having their say, expressing their opinions and using their voices, but then came the admonishment. Blocking people from going about their daily business "doesn't necessarily take us any closer to the climate action they're calling for".

   Really- does our PM not know our history – 1981 was going beyond her limits. Remember the current govt is progressing an ambitious target of carbon neutral in 2050. Sounds like a Key comment not to hold the govt to account for being ambitions 🤮🤑
   • Pat 2.1

     8 October 2019 at 8:01 am

     And…

     "There are 15,473 vehicles in the government fleet and only 78 are electric. When the coalition Government came into power in late 2017, the agreement between Labour and New Zealand First stipulated that the entire fleet would be emissions-free by mid-2025, "where practicable".

     Although it was repeated as recently as June, that goal has been quietly revised to a commitment that, after mid-2025, all new vehicles entering the fleet will be emissions-free."

     https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2019/10/08/847665/government-quietly-abandons-electric-vehicle-target
     • ianmac 2.1.1

       8 October 2019 at 9:24 am

       2025 is about 6 years away Pat so a bit hard to condemn the result in 2019.
       • Pat 2.1.1.1

         8 October 2019 at 10:08 am

         The condemnation is for the winding back (again)…and 6 years is further delay in meaningful action from a timeframe that is already non existent
         • Dukeofurl 2.1.1.1.1

           8 October 2019 at 11:27 am

           What hasnt happened is a range of affordable electric vehicles to buy.

           They are mostly high end vehicles
           • Pat 2.1.1.1.1.1

             8 October 2019 at 11:53 am

             and that wasnt known in June when the policy was reaffirmed?
   • Psycho Milt 2.2

     8 October 2019 at 8:26 am

     Why the surprise? Can you really picture a situation in which the head of the New Zealand government endorses disrupting the functioning of the government?
     • Herodotus 2.2.1

       8 October 2019 at 9:02 am

       Then why enter into the debate then ?

       It is not as if our PM wasn’t going to be asked questions, and that all those support people could not prepare a better response.

       So from inference our PM was against the land matches, bastion pt. And any others that involved say the harbour bridge or queen st being closed? Eg strike marches
       • cleangreen 2.2.1.1

         8 October 2019 at 9:41 am

         Herodotus,

         So right you are,”’ Jacinda is looking more like a paper tiger today doesn’t she just.

         A far cry from the Auckland town hall speech when she was giving her electric speech “climate change is our generations nuclear moment”

         Fool me as I believed her sincerity then.

         She has been hollowed out by big business now and their legions of corporate lobbyists it seems sadly.
         • Herodotus 2.2.1.1.1

           8 October 2019 at 10:22 am

           P.Milt interesting that we will all claim the advancement that protest action has achieved ; civil rights, vote for woman, 1981 tour yet many including our PM condemn how this was achieved. If it all was nice lovey dovey should serious change occur ?

           IMO once power has been achieved don’t rock the boat as you now reap the rewards of being institutionalised.
       • Psycho Milt 2.2.1.2

         8 October 2019 at 10:49 am

         If the "better" response you're looking for is the head of the NZ government endorsing disruption of government functions, disappointment is guaranteed. The reason why should be obvious.
3. Velcro 3

   8 October 2019 at 7:37 am

   There is no climate 'crisis' – except in the minds of warmist bedwetters. The relationship between atmospheric CO2 concentration and atmospheric temperature is logarithmic. The more CO2 there is, the less effective it becomes as a warming agent because the ability of any one CO2 molecule to absorb IR radiation at 14.5 micron wavelength is being shielded by the increasing number of other CO2 molecules.

   [I warned you the other day about not running climate denial under posts I put up. You’ve had multiple comments shifted to Open Mike with the off-topic warning, which you seem to be ignoring. You’re now in the banned list for a while until I see you have read this note and responded to it. It won’t show on the front end but I will still see it and make a decision about releasing the ban. I want to see two things. One is that you agree to not run climate denial lines under my posts or posts I put up (err on the side of caution if you can’t tell who put it up). Two, that you will stop treating the site like a spam exercise and pay attention to what happens to your comments – weka]

   [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
   
   • solkta 3.1

     8 October 2019 at 7:50 am

     Wow, what amazes me is that the the UN don't employ you as there sole climate scientist.
   • weka 3.2

     8 October 2019 at 10:02 am

     mod note for you above.
4. The Fairy Godmother 4

   8 October 2019 at 8:00 am

   Remember today is the last day to post your vote in the local government elections. So far turnout in Auckland is low. I am hoping that the one stop enrol and vote stall will help increase turnout. Campaigning in South Auckland I am very aware that high transience means many people do not feel connected to their communities. They also dont receive voting papers in the mail box. The papers in the box are those of previous residents.
   • Sanctuary 4.1

     8 October 2019 at 8:13 am

     I see they are pushing online voting again as we face a democratic crisis in local body elections. Online voting might make voting easier, but IMHO it won't increase voter turnout for local elections by more than a fraction and online voting is a terrible, terrible idea. People need to take their democratic duties more seriously – and be encouraged to do so. So:

     Make voting day for local bodies and the general election a compulsory paid public holiday – make it a Wednesday so people can't just skive off for a long weekend – but you only get paid for the day off if you present an official chit or certificate or even an indelible ink hand stamp to your employer saying you voted. Make sure that voting stations has candidate material outlining their policies, and encourage people to study it before they vote with free tea, coffee and biscuits. So if you earn $25 an hour, you are up to lose $200 if you don't bother voting and just sit on your arse at home instead.

     On election days fund communities to organise "celebrate democracy" street parties and make election coverage compulsory for free to air media outlets.
     • Ad 4.1.1

       8 October 2019 at 9:20 am

       IMHO unless they put voting onto a phone with biological i.d., most people under 30 will never vote at all.

       So instead of actually voting in a live election – with plenty of rankings about their views on climate change – we get people not voting and instead just sitting on the streets. The Prime Minister is right, but not helpful either.

       All of those people sitting o the streets and in the banks have phones, and its the only way they organise their lives now. Not voting by phone is simple disenfranshisement.
     • The Fairy Godmother 4.1.2

       8 October 2019 at 9:29 am

       +100. All excellent ideas.
     • cleangreen 4.1.3

       8 October 2019 at 9:52 am

       Sanctuary,

       Electronic voting is very insecure you must read about the pitfalls there. The “scouce code” is a doggy system that hides the voting electronic returns that are falsified

       VVTIP is safe though.

       https://www.heritage.org/report/the-dangers-internet-voting
       • joe90 4.1.3.1

         8 October 2019 at 10:20 am

         Electronic voting machines are a replacement for paper ballots. They have nothing whatsoever to do with online voting.

         And the heritage foundation as a source on anything electoral? Do fuck off.

         New York, N.Y. – The Presidential Advisory Commission on Election Integrity relies on a database produced by the Heritage Foundation to justify baseless claims — by President Trump and some of the panel’s members — of rampant voter fraud. But according to an analysis of the database by the Brennan Center for Justice at NYU School of Law, the numbers in the database reveal exactly the opposite.

         Claims that the database contains almost 1,100 proven instances of voter fraud are grossly exaggerated and devoid of context, according to Heritage Fraud Database: An Assessment. It confirms what numerous studies have consistently shown: Voter fraud is vanishingly rare, and impersonating a voter at the polls is less common a phenomenon than being struck by lightning

         https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/analysis-opinion/analysis-heritage-foundations-database-undermines-claims-recent-voter
       • Gabby 4.1.3.2

         8 October 2019 at 4:37 pm

         The scouce code only works in Liverpool cleenee.
     • Anne 4.1.4

       8 October 2019 at 10:08 am

       And I would add one more proviso:

       I don't know how it could be done satisfactorily, but there needs to be a limit on the number of candidates for each local body position. I am sure many people have been turned off by the huge number of candidates on offer this time around. All it does is add another layer of confusion to an already confusing system.

       I know of people who are not going to vote for this particular reason. Keep it simple and people will respond.
       • Dukeofurl 4.1.4.1

         8 October 2019 at 11:12 am

         It used to be the 'deposits' candidates had to lodge when nominated. You had to get a good proportion of the winning candidates votes to get your money back. Its still applies but has inflation made it meaningless
         • The Fairy Godmother 4.1.4.1.1

           8 October 2019 at 11:29 am

           I'd say it has. I think the mayoralty race has got a big parade of eccentrics and comedians that mock the democratic process and trivialize it. Its attention seeking behaviour. Mind you with a large deposit rich clowns could still participate and poor people whether clowns or or not would be excluded. I wouldn't want the deposit raised.
           • Ed1 4.1.4.1.1.1

             8 October 2019 at 11:52 am

             Half those running for Mayor are only doing it so they get publicity to get a Council position. The real problem with voting is not knowing how to distinguish one candidate from another.
   • A 4.2

     8 October 2019 at 10:49 am

     Thanks for the reminder. I admit that I feel very apathetic. However due to your post I'm going to go vote…looking for those from a particular party as I have no idea about most candidates.
     • Anne 4.2.1

       8 October 2019 at 12:15 pm

       If you live in Auckland A "City Vision" are generally centre-left candidates as opposed to C&R (used to be called Citizens and Ratepayers) who are the National Party in drag.

       If anyone lives on the Shore please consider "Heart of the Shore" candidates for their local board.
5. Sanctuary 5

   8 October 2019 at 8:40 am

   The historical revisionism around the Cook 250th anniversary is simply outrageous. In particular, I heard on NatRad a highly coloured view of Cook's contact with Poverty Bay Maori presenterd as an unprovoked assault with locals murdered in cold blood (complete with emotional guess work about Maori tearing off their clothes in panic and leaping into the ocean in a frantic attempt to escape the white man's unprovoked and genocidal actions).

   As far as I know, only one primary source exists of this encounter – that being Cook's journals. What does the primary source actually say of this encounter?

   http://southseas.nla.gov.au/journals/cook/17691010.html – I have edited the account to make it easier to read for a modern reader and correct spelling mistakes, etc.

   "…Monday [Tuesday] 10th PM I rowed round the head of the Bay but could find no place to land, on account of the great surf which beat every where upon the shore; seeing two boats or Canoes coming in from Sea, I rowed to one of them in order to seize upon the people, and came so near before they took notice of us that Tobiaupia called to them to come along side and we would not hurt them, but instead of doing that this they endeavoured to get away, upon which I order'd a Musket to be fired over their heads thinking this would either make them surrender or jump over board. But here I was mistaken for they immediately took to their arms and/or and whatever they had in the boat and began to attack us, this obliged us to fire upon them. and unfortunately either two or three was were kill'd, and one wounded, and three jumped over board, these last we took up and brought on board, where they were clothed and treated with all imaginable kindness and to the surprise of every body became at once as cheerful and as merry as if they had been with their own friends; they were all three young, the eldest not above 20 years of age and the youngest about 10 or 12.

   I am aware that most humane men who have not experienced things of this nature will censure my conduct in firing upon the people in this boat. Nor do I myself think that the reason I had for seizing upon her will at all justify me . And had I thought that they would have made the least resistance I would not have come near them. But as they did I was not to stand still and suffer either my self or those that were with me to be knocked on the head…"

   Note the journal entry I have put in italics – never mentioned by Maori radicals keen on painting Cook in the worse possible light- hardly paint Cook as a cold blooded killer. He clearly bitterly regretted killing anyone.

   Cook was by the standards of his time an enlightened and civilised man. He was one of the greatest navigators and explorers who ever lived. Smearing him as part of some sort of a historical revisionist project is regrettable, to say the least.
   • aom 5.1

     8 October 2019 at 8:47 am

     History is written by the victors?
     • Sanctuary 5.1.1

       8 October 2019 at 8:50 am

       More to the point, only one account exists. The unchallenged slant put on the account by someone who clearly had an agenda was bad reporting of bad history.

       The guy should have challenged on his account. If he claimed it to be from oral tradition, then the reporter has a duty to point out this oral tradition is at significant odds with the contemporary written account of one of the participants in the encounter, and leave it to the listener to judge what weight to give either point of view.

       We owe it to ourselves as a people to make sure the historical record is correct.
       • Molly 5.1.1.1

         8 October 2019 at 9:43 am

         Reality is, Sanctuary, that any historical record in cases such as this will be unlikely to be correct or accurate. Open-ended discussions without full resolution is the best you can hope for.

         Written contemporary documents – while valuable – are not infallible. The interpretation or bias of the writer can make them unreliable, or at least raise areas of contention. It is human nature to view one's actions in the best possible light, especially in an official record such as a logbook, perhaps Cook recorded his journals in such a way.

         <i>" We owe it to ourselves as a people to make sure the historical record is correct. "</i>

         As 'a' people?

         As people, we should be able to acknowledge that there is no hard and fast full and final truth to be pinned down. Everyone who was present at historical events had their own perspective as it took place. Some did not live to pass theirs on, others did so using oral traditions, Cook wrote his down. It does not mean that the written record should take precedence in terms of accuracy. Although this seems to be the standard in history, it is not necessarily the whole truth.
         • Sanctuary 5.1.1.1.1

           8 October 2019 at 9:46 am

           "…. It does not mean that the written record should take precedence in terms of accuracy. Although this seems to be the standard in history…"

           Pesky thing, literacy.
           • Molly 5.1.1.1.1.1

             8 October 2019 at 10:00 am

             Sanctuary. I love reading written historical records, especially when they are written by persons unknown.

             I also understand the failings of using written records – solely – as a measure of accuracy.

             Do you really not see that there is a problem with keeping to this sole standard, in a vain attempt to determine accuracy?

             (NB. Slick use of ellipticals in quoting me to remove context. A good example of written records removing truths – was that your intention?)
             • Molly …

               8 October 2019 at 11:08 am

               ellipticals …. ellipsis.
   • ianmac 5.2

     8 October 2019 at 9:26 am

     Even the number killed varies between 3 and 9 according to who is reporting.
     • Sanctuary 5.2.1

       8 October 2019 at 9:47 am

       "…according to who is reporting…."

       Are you aware of other contemporary reports?
       • ianmac 5.2.1.1

         8 October 2019 at 9:50 am

         I meant current radio comment.

         I wonder if the current anti-Cook is just a strategy for gaining publicity for the cause. 250 years ago?
       • marty mars 5.2.1.2

         8 October 2019 at 7:18 pm

         There were two parties to the slaughter mate – wise up thicko
         • Sanctuary 5.2.1.2.1

           9 October 2019 at 6:42 am

           While I am pleased that you've demonstrated a previously unsuspected ability to count, I don't believe I questioned the mathematics of the encounter.
           • marty mars 5.2.1.2.1.1

             9 October 2019 at 4:59 pm

             no – what did you question again?

             As far as I know, only one primary source exists of this encounter – that being Cook's journals. What does the primary source actually say of this encounter?

             hmmm oh dear what a fail by you lol
     • Molly 5.2.2

       8 October 2019 at 9:55 am

       At the local commemorations of the 150th anniversary of the NZ wars, we had a history walk through a couple of our local sites of interest.

       An event reported as settlers being holed up in the local church, was actually not in response to local iwi hostilities but as a response to local militia grandstanding. In the end, a local battle began against military orders because imported mercenaries were looking for a fight. It was easy to find documentation of all soldiers killed at the battle, because contemporary papers listed them by name, and those records were often repeated throughout the years. The soldiers were also laid out – by the opposing Māori fighters after the battle, so that they could be retrieved and buried, while they carried their own away for burial.

       Even contemporary reports did not record the number of Māori killed. A combination of not knowing, and their relevance to readers makes that understandable. The local iwi actually became no more when their land was confiscated, and members left and joined other tribes, and the hapu exists no more. This along with oral histories, and lack of familial connections which repeats oral histories, means iwi recollections are hard, and in many cases, impossible to collate.

       Which makes the discussion around the lack of fixed numbers in situations such as this a purely academic exercise, but we just need to admit that the full truth may never be known.
6. Blazer 6

   8 October 2019 at 9:36 am

   An alternative view…

   [no climate denial under my posts – weka]

   [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
   
   • weka 6.1

     8 October 2019 at 10:38 am

     mod note for you above.
     • Blazer 6.1.1

       8 October 2019 at 3:22 pm

       Amazing ,simply amazing.
7. Jimmy 7

   8 October 2019 at 9:41 am

   Wow this guy is the lowest of the low.

   https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12167698
8. joe90 8

   8 October 2019 at 9:59 am

   Odds are the SDF, who actually did most of the fighting and dying in the defeat of ISIS, will be so busy fighting Erdogan's neo-ottoman armies they'll just turn loose the 10,000 or so ISIS fighters they're holding prisoner

   Syria Kurdish official told us, reacting to Trump’s overnight decision. 
   “The Americans are traitors. They have abandoned us to a Turkish massacre.
   We can no longer fight against isis and have to defend ourselves. This could allow isis to return to the region.”

   — Richard Engel (@RichardEngel) October 7, 2019

   The captured ISIS fighters are not “mostly from Europe.” Trump’s anti-ISIS envoy says 8,000 of 10,000 are Iraqi or Syrian. pic.twitter.com/MgrD06YF26

   — Daniel Dale (@ddale8) October 7, 2019
   • joe90 8.1

     8 October 2019 at 10:10 am

     McGurk was tRump’s envoy to the region.

     Donald Trump is not a Commander-in-Chief. He makes impulsive decisions with no knowledge or deliberation. He sends military personnel into harm’s way with no backing. He blusters and then leaves our allies exposed when adversaries call his bluff or he confronts a hard phone call.

     — Brett McGurk (@brett_mcgurk) October 7, 2019

     https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1181085818493927425.html
   • Andre 8.2

     8 October 2019 at 10:13 am

     What a surprise – guess who owns property where and (presumably) wants to keep in good with the local capo di capi?

     https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump-kurds-turkey-istanbul_n_5d9b82ffe4b03b475f9de498

     https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2019/10/reminder-trump-has-a-massive-conflict-of-interest-in-turkey/

     Meanwhile, there's a few feeble mouse squeaks of minor disapproval, but no doubt a personalised tweet from Darth Hater will send them scurrying back into cowering subservience.

     https://www.huffpost.com/entry/mitch-mcconnell-trump-syria-turkey-kurds_n_5d9b7e38e4b0fc935edeabc2
     • joe90 8.2.1

       8 October 2019 at 10:25 am

       From 2012 but yeah, feathering the family nest.

       Thank you Prime Minister Erdogan for joining us yesterday to celebrate the launch of #TrumpTowers Istanbul!

       — Ivanka Trump (@IvankaTrump) April 20, 2012
   • joe90 8.3

     8 October 2019 at 11:18 am

     tRump up and abandons the Kurds and the tanks roll in.

     Crickets from cowards of both stripes.

     #BREAKING
     Heavy trucks have begun to unload Turkish army tanks at the Syrian border now.

     — WorldOnAlert (@worldonalert) October 7, 2019

     Kurdish-led Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF) said on Monday that US forces were beginning to withdraw from positions in northeastern Syria on the border with Turkey, after Ankara announced it was planning a military offensive there.

     "Despite our efforts to avoid any military escalation with Turkey, the US forces have not fulfilled their obligations and withdrew their forces from the border areas with Turkey," the SDF said in a statement.

     "Turkey is now preparing an invasion of northern and eastern Syria," the statement said.

     https://www.dw.com/en/us-begins-troop-withdrawal-from-northeastern-syria-ahead-of-turkish-offensive/a-50719681

     edit:

     Of course tRump had the Kurds dismantle their own defencive positions before leaving them to the Turks.

     Based on our confidence in the #US efforts in the Security Mechanism agreement, we implemented all our commitments to remove military fortifications between Tal Abyad & SereKaniye, withdraw combat forces with heavy weapons, risking a security vacum as a result of the agreement.

     — Coordination & Military Ops Center – SDF (@cmoc_sdf) October 7, 2019
     • marty mars 8.3.1

       8 October 2019 at 7:27 pm

       this is so disgusting and will imo lead to massive death and pain for the Kurdish people. The scarlett scumsock with tiny baby-sized hands is a monster.
   • joe90 8.4

     8 October 2019 at 12:59 pm

     I'm sure that's just a coincidence, but there seems to lots of criminals residing in tRump properties.

     The gold trader who spearheaded that money laundering scheme, Reza Zarrab, was a Trump Towers Istanbul resident and former ally of Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan.

     Giuliani represented Zarrab in a quasi-diplomatic mission as a go-between for the White House and Erdogan.

     — Adam Klasfeld (@KlasfeldReports) October 7, 2019
     • Anne 8.4.1

       8 October 2019 at 8:09 pm

       I'm sure that's just a coincidence, but there seems to lots of criminals residing in tRump properties.

       Oh I dunno. Like attracts like. 😎
9. greywarshark 9

   8 October 2019 at 10:45 am

   https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/400491/women-denied-treatment-for-gynaecological-conditions

   NZ continuing the direction away from supporting and giving attention to the lives of the young and helping them as they face the future. Instead, the interest is on the middle-aged and older consolidating their wealth and adding wealth creation by any means, and their increase in longevity so they have time to spend their putea on their own enjoyment and wants.

   The focus is on maintaining the living standards of the comfortably-off retired, which the poorer ones also benefit from as fringe dwellers of the 'golden aged'. For the rest it's the End of the Golden Weather'.
   • Drowsy M. Kram 9.1

     8 October 2019 at 11:12 am

     +100. As waters rise, the 'golden aged' (nice phrase) are buying all the best ‘boats’.

     Can’t say I blame them.
     • Drowsy M. Kram 9.1.1

       8 October 2019 at 5:33 pm

       Brian Fallow: Wealth gap widens as economic growth leaves poorest Kiwis behind [25 January, 2019]

       "Many older people have relatively high wealth (often in the form of a mortgage-free home in the main) but low income."

       "The survey also gives us information about the distribution of wealth among individuals as distinct from the households they live in.

       Unsurprisingly, perhaps, it found that net worth is strongly correlated with age.

       The richest age group is 65- to 74-year-olds, who also enjoyed the strongest rise in net worth: at the median up $110,000 to $416,000 over the past three years."

       https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12195043
   • The Al1en 9.2

     8 October 2019 at 11:21 am

     So according to you, all middle aged and older women are consolidating their wealth, looking for a big spend up in their golden years? Perhaps you'd like to take a poll on here about wealth, or ask around, before you peddle idiotic nonsense as fact. If you're going to throw people under the bus, at least know who it is you're sacrificing first.

     It should also be noted the article you've linked to makes no mention of old being treated before the young, no treatment or queue jumping based on an age divide, instead noting multiple dhb's are under stress and only accepting urgent referrals.
     • weka 9.2.1

       8 October 2019 at 12:16 pm

       Yeah, don't know how age and wealth came into that, other than the health system has been underfunded and monkeywrenched by neoliberals for 30 years. Hard even to separate out whether women are being particularly disadvantaged (although it won't be a surprise if they are). We live in an age of rationing cancer treatment and epilepsy drugs, I think the inequities are grossly across the board.
       • The Al1en 9.2.1.1

         8 October 2019 at 12:25 pm

         I also just read how 60% of pensioners rely week to week on their super, so not sure where the idea came from they're living it up large more than the rest of us pay cheque to pay cheque warriors.
         • weka 9.2.1.1.1

           8 October 2019 at 12:43 pm

           yep. It's a myth from the whole boomer vs millennial hate fest.

           The housing crisis must be hitting pensioners with rent or mortgages hard.
           • Sacha 9.2.1.1.1.1

             8 October 2019 at 1:12 pm

             Any seniors who depend on investment returns for income will be suffering with low interest rates. Of course people with mortgages love those.
             • weka …

               8 October 2019 at 1:35 pm

               Any lower income/asset seniors. The higher ones won't be suffering 😉
10. A 10

    8 October 2019 at 11:27 am

    Here's Mike Hosking… as he takes several knees to the groin from the Red Princess.

    "Here is the problem for your Government image-wise in that you are pro drugs, you're loose on drugs, you're soft on drugs, you want to vote on drugs," Hosking said.

    "You want to drug test at festivals and you want us to legalise cannabis."

    Ardern then said, "Mike, do you know how ridiculous you sound right now?

    "It's not ridiculous," Hosking replied. "It's all linked."

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12274484
    • Peter Christchurh nz 10.1

      8 October 2019 at 11:35 am

      Prohibition has been tried in NZ all.of my life, and failed all.of my life.

      Having said that, there is no question that the current crop of lab produced drugs like Sin and Meth are destroying our society and the lives of so many, both directly and indirectly.

      What's the answer? Will legalising soft drugs like marijuana or relegalising party pills make a difference? Probably not, probably not make things worse either. And at least it removes the present hypocrisy.
    • peterh 10.2

      8 October 2019 at 12:43 pm

      Ardern made a big mistake, she added right now
      • Peter 10.2.1

        8 October 2019 at 1:07 pm

        I was disappointed in Hosking. I expected him to have said somewhere in his thing with the PM this morning, "I in my great and unmatched wisdom …"

        Isn't that the current signature of f'wits?
    • Psycho Milt 10.3

      8 October 2019 at 8:27 pm

      Ardern then said, "Mike, do you know how ridiculous you sound right now?

      That's like asking your cat if it knows how ridiculous it looks right now when its tongue is sticking out – the subject has to have at least some capacity for self-reflection for a question like that to have any point.
11. greywarshark 11

    8 October 2019 at 11:35 am

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/400505/fire-rages-through-100-hectares-near-lake-wanaka
    This fire is not regarded as suspicious. There was another fire recently arising from a burnoff that got out of hand. The situation seems suspiciously as if it is BAU and the farmers are needing to be put under a permanent ban of burnoffs. They will then likely want to spray herbicides and that will have to be banned as well.

    Perhaps aerial seeding and seed or plant balls to start off alternative growth to weeds etc. But fire is our enemy now, far more than before since colonisation when it helped to kill off the huia.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seed_ball

    https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2017/11/drones-plant-trees-deforestation-environment/

    Necessity is the mother of invention, to those who are open to practical sustainable ideas.
    (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z28screy0Mg

    Could this be good? Is anyone looking and picking up the findings?
    https://projects.sare.org/sare_project/fnc13-916/

    https://forestsnews.cifor.org/41242/switching-swidden-to-agroforestry-a-small-intervention-with-big-potential-in-west-java?fnl=en
    Indonesia – Farming trees and crops together could be a win-win solution for rural farmers in West Java, a study has found – increasing incomes, enhancing land tenure security and reducing deforestation and forest degradation.

    Subterranean clover in NZ stands dry conditions.
    https://beeflambnz.com/news-views/sub-clover-valuable-tool-dryland-farm-systems
    • weka 11.1

      8 October 2019 at 12:25 pm

      I saw that but think they will have said if it was a farmer burnoff.

      When farmers do burn off, they're burning bracken to try and retain pasture. There's really no good way to keep pasture in that kind of hilly country (it's burn or spray regularly). The only sustainable way out is to work with nature and let it reforest. Seedballs would help, but nature is pretty good at restore land like that via bracken then shrubs then trees (assuming destocking and rabbit control).

      Sheep farming in bracken prone areas is just badly inappropriate land use. Climate change is going to make this worse, and we need to get those areas reforesting as soon as we can to get them past the bracken, highly flammable stage. There's probably some kind of fire ecology there, but it didn't evolve in bare farmland, it should be surrounded by mature forests that act as buffers, keep things more moist, and provide seed banks.
12. Pat 12

    8 October 2019 at 12:10 pm

    "The Climate Change Commission will be established if and when Parliament passes the Zero Carbon Bill. The Bill sets out a desire to reduce emissions of all greenhouse gases, aside from biogenic methane, to net zero by 2050. Shaw expects the Bill to pass by Christmas and says the advice the Commission provides to government on future emissions budgets has the potential to shape and reshape industries and communities for decades to come"…….

    …..Shaw says he's still considering his preferred candidates for the other six Commissioners and hopes to announce appointments to these roles in coming months."

    https://www.interest.co.nz/news/102030/climate-change-minister-james-shaw-names-rod-carr-chairman-climate-change-commission

    The Chairman choice shows signs of being a good one but if hes as good as his word I hope frustration isnt a condition he suffers from
13. ianmac 13

    8 October 2019 at 1:31 pm

    The Government has unveiled a bumper $7.5 billion surplus and the lowest debt levels in almost a decade, the latest Crown accounts reveal.

    Huh? But Simon Says that the present Government is hopeless and managing the economy. All his mates complain about it so how will the Opposition spin that headline?

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12274510
14. Anne 14

    8 October 2019 at 4:28 pm

    I'm not a NZ First voter but Dirty Politic is in full force!

    https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/116409225/major-leak-of-nz-first-membership-database-exposes-personal-details

    Interesting that the only major party who doesn't get hit by these capers is National.
    • OnceWasTim 14.1

      8 October 2019 at 5:39 pm

      nor am oI 2 @Anne, but the gNatz are doubling down aye. Pass the popcorn will ya (Love), but be quick will ya, I've got an appointment at the Caci Clinic soon, and then Jen and Burton are due for drinks
      • Anne 14.1.1

        8 October 2019 at 6:41 pm

        I appear to have jumped the gun OWT. It looks like it was an inside job:

        Peters tweeted on Tuesday night that the leak was a "deliberate and malicious misappropriation of data by a disgruntled source."

        So a disgruntled former member chooses to release personal details of individuals who have nothing to do with the spat (whatever it is) presumably as an act of revenge. Whoever it was, they can do without them.

        https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/116409225/major-leak-of-nz-first-membership-database-exposes-personal-details
        • OnceWasTim 14.1.1.1

          8 October 2019 at 7:12 pm

          Presumably that sauce was that frightful man that's just resigned. Just as well darling.

          Tols is up from the Bay and Maggers is due in any moment from the Shore and we really really must get that horrid couple Paula and Simon through finishing school before the election and I really am trying to keep it all mum from Jen and B.

          I've been all a fluster I can tell you!
    • karol121 14.2

      9 October 2019 at 3:15 pm

      The low commentator turnout in relation to that (NZ First) privacy breach may be some indication of the lack of outrage on behalf of such funders and other supporters of the party. It did a few nice things for some people long ago, but it would be reasonable to presume that most people now see it as being close to redundant, despite the Winston Peters sole, “Kingmaker” star turn, post the 2017 election which really wasn’t considered to be a nice situation by many.

      Also, if certain within NZ First had seen this breach event as likely, then so as to come out sort of smelling like pansies, they'd have sterilised or cleansed any really damaging material ahead of time, surely?

      If so, and I cannot say that it is so, then there would be little doubt that both National and Labour would have also gone through their supporter database by now in order to remove anything and anyone contained on/in it which might be considered more than just a little smelly.
15. Eco maori 15

    11 October 2019 at 8:28 am

    Kia Ora Breakfast.

    Yes more publicly of local elections will help boost local elections participants. I still say online voting will boost voter turnout numbers. Heaps of people have phones so long as the system is set up wisely easy to use and safely more people will vote online.

    Spark getting some of the sports broadcasting rights is good I assume that they will play the matches delayed on free TV I think this will get people to learn how to use our 21 century communication device.

    There you go they have to much power to manipulate the people of our country they can do things illegally they don't have to worry because its all a secret they can manipulate every person in Aotearoa.

    The Austrian down hill race looks like fun I have similar experiences

    I know a couple of rural areas that have had a down turn in their economy's over the last 10 years its not just the West Coast that got that going down

    Those Capybara are real beautiful creatures they look like a happy heard.

    Ka kite Ano
16. Eco maori 16

    11 October 2019 at 12:30 pm

    Kia Ora Here it is facts wealthy big carbon companies distorting the fact on Human Caused Global Warming. They have gone to great lengths to hide their behaviour of suppressing our realities on Global Warming and the damage the Phenomenon will do to the tangata of the Papatuanuku. Hence Eco Maori is like a broke record on the subject of Global warming and our futures rights to a livable environment for all.

    How vested interests tried to turn the world against climate science

    For decades fossil fuel majors tried to fight the consensus – just as big tobacco once disputed that smoking kills

    • Revealed: top UK thinktank spent decades undermining climate science

    Felicity Lawrence, David Pegg and Rob Evans

    In 1998 a public relations consultant called Joe Walker Petroleum Institute (API), a trade association representing major fossil fuel companies, with a proposed solution to a big problem.

    In December the previous year, the UN had adopted the Kyoto protocol, an international treaty that committed signatory countries to reducing their greenhouse gas emissions in order to avert catastrophic climate breakdown.

    Reducing emissions represented a direct threat to the profits of fossil fuel companies and the API was working on an industry response.

    “As promised, attached is the Global Climate Science Communications Plan that we developed during our workshop last Friday,” Walker wrote. The workshop had involved senior executives from fossil fuel companies, including the oil multinationals Exxon – later part of ExxonMobil – and Chevron, and the gas and coal utility Southern Company, and a handful of rightwing thinktanks

    Ka kite Ano link below.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/oct/10/vested-interests-public-against-climate-science-fossil-fuel-lobby
17. Eco maori 17

    11 October 2019 at 4:19 pm

    Our Wild birds are like the canary in A mine the lack of birds in country's should be taken as a sign that the environment is in sharp decline. We must look after our Papatuanuku environment and all her wildlife. We must plant billions of trees to protect our futures environment.

    Two-thirds of bird species in North America are at risk of extinction because of the climate crisis, according to a new report from researchers at the Audubon Society, a leading US conservation group.

    Record numbers of Australia's wildlife species face 'imminent extinction'

    The continent could lose 389 of the 604 types of birds studied. The species face threats to their habitats from rising temperatures, higher seas, heavy rains and urbanization.

    Those at risk include the wood thrush, a well-known songbird, and the Baltimore oriole, the mascot of Maryland’s baseball team. The recognizable common loon could disappear, as could the vibrant mountain bluebird.

    “Birds are indicators of the health of our environment, so if they disappear, we’re certainly going to see a lot of changes in the landscape,” said Brooke Bateman, the senior researcher who wrote the report. “If there are things changing with birds we have to understand that the environment is changing for us as well.”

    Bateman said birds are an excellent lens for viewing environmental destruction, because they are visible and respond quickly. In the 1970s, humans realized the pesticide DDT was dangerous when birds were unable to successfully breed, she noted

    Ka kite Ano link below.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/oct/10/bird-species-extinction-north-america-climate-crisis
18. Eco maori 18

    11 October 2019 at 6:29 pm

    Kia Ora 1 News.

    Everyone was warned that pool games could be cancelled because of bad weather.

    Condolences to Blairs whanau for their loss.

    Did you see Tawhirimate crying rents are spiking still he is still trying to make Aotearoa a utopia for his wealth m8. But no Aotearoa has changed for the better.

    Awsome that the council concent process is going to be streamline for prefabricated House as I have just said rents are still spiking in 2 years rental av will be $800.00

    Every living thing needs a habitatable environment to live in full stop

    Ka kite Ano
19. Eco maori 19

    11 October 2019 at 6:50 pm

    Kia Ora Te Ao Maori News.

    That's great our government investment of $7 million more help disabled people with sports

    Ka pai to Lloyd logging hard mahi is good for the health and wairua.

    Kormaru sestanable Maori business is good. Yes Tangata Whenua O Aotearoa Culture Mana is growing Papatuanuku wide.

    Kia Kaha to Niue for treasureing their te reo and passing it on to their mokopuna I have seen some cultures that nearly lost their Te Reo. Thanks to our Tipuna our culture is Mana

    Ka kite Ano
20. Eco maori 20

    12 October 2019 at 9:21 am

    Aotearoa has quite a few easy changes The low hangingffruit in our cities to lower our carbon footprint it looks like capping Nelson cities rubbish dump captureing the methane gas using it to generate energy will have a major influence on reducing the citys carbon footprint.

    A United Nations-accredited climate specialist from Central Otago has been named as the person charged with bringing Nelson City Council up to speed on climate change.

    Chris Cameron will take up the role of "climate change champion", a position established four months ago after the council declared a climate emergency.

    Council spokesperson Paul Shattock said Cameron was a "UN-accredited expert inventory reviewer on greenhouse gas emissions", who was part of New Zealand's delegation to meetings of the UNFCCC (United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change) in Europe and Indonesia in 2007 and 2008.

    Cameron led Wellington City Council's climate change office before undertaking a PhD in climate science four years ago.

    Council undertook a baseline survey of its greenhouse gas emissions last year, and expected to release a detailed action plan for reducing them next year

    Eighty per cent of its emissions were identified as coming from the York Valley landfill, which services both Nelson and Tasman

    It was taking an "adaptive pathways" approach to helping communities adapt to climate change, and was due to start engaging with communities to work out which action to take when certain impacts occurred Ka kite Ano link below.

    https://i.stuff.co.nz/environment/climate-news/116426907/nelson-names-champion-to-get-council-up-to-speed-on-climate-action
21. Eco maori 21

    12 October 2019 at 10:10 am

    Looks like it's is best to divert organic waste from our rubbish dumps and compost it. Minimise our waste recycling everything we can. This problem is one of the biggest Elephants in the Papatuanuku that no one is really highlighting. Its one of the biggest industries greenhouse gas producers in the Papatuanuku that no one is taking about.

    LANDFILLS HAVE A HUGE GREENHOUSE GAS PROBLEM. HERE’S WHAT WE CAN DO ABOUT IT.

    Food and yard waste make trash a prolific producer of methane — but fixes exist

    October 25, 2016 — We take out our trash and feel lighter and cleaner. But at the landfill, the food and yard waste that trash contains is decomposing and releasing methane, a greenhouse gas that’s 28 times more potent than carbon dioxide. Landfill gas also contributes to smog, worsening health problems like asthma.

    Globally, trash released nearly 800 million metric tons (882 million tons) of CO2 equivalent in 2010 — about 11 percent of all methane generated by humans. The United States had the highest total quantity of methane emissions from landfills in 2010: almost 130 million metric tons (143 million tons) of CO2 equivalent. China was a distant second, with 47 million (52 million), then Mexico, Russia, Turkey, Indonesia, Canada, the United Kingdom, Brazil and India, according to the Global Methane Initiative, an international partnership of government and private groups working to reduce methane emissions.

    A more direct — and likely more successful — way to reduce landfill methane would be to reduce the amount of methane-generating materials going into landfills in the first place

    With some 40 percent of all food wasted in the United States, reducing food waste offers big opportunities. Last year the EPA and U.S. Department of Agriculture set a target to reduce food waste by 50 percent by 2030, with programs for public education and commercial policies. “Let’s feed people, not landfills,” said EPA administrator Gina McCarthy in announcing the initiative. “By reducing wasted food in landfills, we cut harmful methane emissions that fuel climate change, conserve our natural resources, and protect our planet for future generations.”

    

    Composting can help reduce the landfill methane problem by keeping some organic material out of the trash. Photo © iStockphoto.com/cjp

    After reducing food waste, the next best step is turning what remains, along with yard waste, into compost rather than sending it to landfills, says Neil Seldman, cofounder of the Institute for Local Self-Reliance, a nonprofit that helps communities fight landfills and waste incinerators and institute composting, recycling and zero-waste programs.

    Ka kite Ano link below.

    https://ensia.com/features/methane-landfills/
22. Eco maori 22

    12 October 2019 at 3:10 pm

    Some Eco Maori Music For The Minute.
23. Eco maori 23

    12 October 2019 at 4:12 pm

    Some Eco Maori Music For The Minute.
24. Eco maori 24

    12 October 2019 at 6:28 pm

    Kia Ora TV 1 News

    If the ruling class oil barons had not covered up the effects of Global Warming in the 50s we could have already had a green Papatuanuku economy and slowed global warming.

    I went shopping in Repco I seen some cockroches.

    Aotearoa economy will be fine no matter what happens in Britain.

    Abiy Ahmed congratulations on the winning of the Noble Peace Prize.

    Billy is a funny bugger kia kaha.

    Ka kite Ano
25. Eco maori 25

    12 October 2019 at 6:48 pm

    Kia Ora Te Ao Maori News.

    Kia Pai to Robert Bongillies being honoured for your mahi when you were young fella your mahi made Tangata Whenua O Aotearoa famous.

    That's how Te Maori of old are respectful humble and taonga Maori.

    Ma Te Wa Hone Tamahiri green is the way to go.

    Tennis is a great game for Maori tamariki to join one can see other minority cultures climbing up to the top rungs in that sport.

    Ka kite Ano

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