Open mike 08/11/2019

Written By: - Date published: 7:00 am, November 8th, 2019 - 113 comments
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113 comments on “Open mike 08/11/2019 ”

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  1. xanthe 1
    8 November 2019 at 7:39 am

    anyone else getting a sustained barrage of climate change denier paid adv on facebook ?

  2. Robert Guyton 2
    8 November 2019 at 7:45 am

    National voted for the Zero Carbon Bill. Will they now scaremonger, undermine public confidence in the Bill in order to amass votes at the coming election?

    Of course they will! And they'll focus on the regions, getting MPs to dog-whistle like demented shepherds, at meetings, in local newspapers and on their many, many billboards, spreading the fear that the Government's climate change plans will bring economic ruin to all of us. Imo. Today's cartoon in The Southland Times captures the situation perfectly. It shows Simon Bridges at the pulpit, declaring, "We take climate change seriously! But we would rather see everyday New Zealanders burn in the fiery hell of global warming than pay money to stop it! Luxton pipes in, "I hear you Brother Simon!"

  3. KJT 3
    8 November 2019 at 8:12 am

    The issue with OK Boomer I've touched on elsewhere.

    "The problem is people, often young people, buying into the right wing meme, of "intergenerational warfare, or theft" used to pit people against each other, and ignore the real cause, the rich and powerful of all generations. No one who sees National's entitled young prats, can think it is "boomers". I'm an enthusiastic supporter of Chloe Swarbrick, but i think her usual deft touch deserted her on this occasion. Lowering to the tone of the National idiot she was replying to".

    OK now, Woman?

    • Robert Guyton 3.1
      8 November 2019 at 9:01 am

      I agree, the generational-divide is a red-herring in the search for "whodunnit", but Chloe's call was elegantly done, so I'm forgiving of it. The culprit, in my opinion, is the psychological "black hole" we created then fell into over 10 000 years ago and are presently trying to identify and climb out of. It's variously described as "greed" or "civilisation" etc, but however we call it, it's brought us to a dangerous place. Only when we identify it for what it is will we be able to do something about it. Finger-pointing's one thing; humans did bring this on, and when a finger's pointed at you, it's a good idea to explore the charges levelled, but a wide-view has to be taken, lest we end up in-fighting, skirmishing, winning battles but losing the war.

      Ko tenei the ra o te Pakanga Nui!

      • marty mars 3.1.1
        8 November 2019 at 9:31 am

        The evidence shows the shape of the curve and 10000 years ago it was flat.

        Boomers, and I am one, have to own up to the shit that has happened in our lifetimes, that we have contributed to, that we still contribute to TODAY. Alas not taking responsibility is a trait of our little cohort – easier to blame others or blaming no one is even better – as long as the mirror is put away.

        • Robert Guyton 3.1.1.1
          8 November 2019 at 9:53 am

          Are you speaking on behalf of all boomers, Marty?

          "I have seen the enemy, and he is us" can be said by boomers and non-boomers alike smiley

          • marty mars 3.1.1.1.1
            8 November 2019 at 10:10 am

            I don't think I said that I was speaking for all boomers – weird you'd get that so wrong. Good distraction from my point though. It is a false duality to go for enemies and friends – the point is acceptance of the reality and that is very hard especially for boomers who have so much justifiable guilt on our hands.

            • Robert Guyton 3.1.1.1.1.1
              8 November 2019 at 10:26 am

              "Boomers have to…"

              Probably better to say, "I have to…", or it will seem as though you're speaking on behalf of…

              I notice when someone says, "Group "A" needs to…or Group "B" must… or Group "C" has to…"

              Do you, also, feeling uncomfortable when you read those kinds of statements?

              • marty mars …
                8 November 2019 at 10:40 am

                lol jeeze anything other than the point eh – sad and stupid

                • Robert Guyton …
                  8 November 2019 at 10:49 am

                  Your point being that boomers need to own up?

                  Yes?

                  • marty mars …
                    8 November 2019 at 10:55 am

                    Robert – you and I have both much better things to do than argue in this way. I respect much of what you have done and say and you are an idiot sometimes.

                    • Robert Guyton …
                      8 November 2019 at 11:03 am

                      Yeah, and I think those "sometimes" are drawing closer and closer together the more I tune in to the thoughts of the wider community smiley

                      Never had the experience of someone misinterpreting your meaning, Marty?

                      I admire your clarity of thought and expression and seek to be more like you. And reduce my moments of idiocy with it.

                      I agree that we both have better things to do. In-between comments, I'm planting hebe. 50 so far this morning, 150 to go; better get busy!

                    • weka []
                      8 November 2019 at 12:03 pm

                      He be planting hebe.

                      (sorry, the best I could do, although it has a nice scan to it)

                    • marty mars …
                      8 November 2019 at 11:16 am

                      I tend to be a "seek forgiveness rather than ask permission" type of person so I am always seeking forgiveness from others for my transgressions. I use a lot of IMO's (in my opinion) in my comments usually because I only ever want to speak from me and my experience – that's identity politics for ya.

                      We have rain coming – Tasman at about -19% rainfall for the year and we are even less. Thinking of getting another watertank for rain water as the drought last year was tough and this year I suspect will be even tougher. Also I am enjoying being alive. Have a nice day Robert.

                    • Robert Guyton …
                      8 November 2019 at 12:18 pm

                      That's very good, weka.

                      Yoda would have said, "Planting hebe, he be. "

                • Robert Guyton …
                  8 November 2019 at 10:53 am

                  Boomers find it hard to own up to their failings.

                  Privileged people find it hard to own up to their failings.

                  Colonists find it hard to own up to their failings.

                  Men find it hard to own up to their failings.

                  Patriarchs find it hard to own up to their failings.

                  Greedy people find it hard to own up to their failings.

                  Addicts find it….hang on!

                  I swear there's a pattern here!

                  • marty mars …
                    8 November 2019 at 11:01 am

                    lol – you just checkmated yourself ta

                    • Robert Guyton …
                      8 November 2019 at 12:08 pm

                      Marty, I think you may have missed the signal sent by the line that begins, "Addicts…"

                      All groups that find it difficult to "own up to their failings" are addicted to the culture they are part of. Do we require those addicted to substances to "own up" before we help them, or do we recognise the difficultly they may have in doing that and get on with helping them anyway?

                    • Sacha …
                      8 November 2019 at 12:13 pm

                      Boomers deserve help with humility just like every other group does.

                    • Robert Guyton …
                      8 November 2019 at 12:16 pm

                      'zakly

                    • marty mars …
                      8 November 2019 at 12:17 pm

                      Yes – healing can only begin when we accept the truth of who we are and what we do. It starts with us all individually Robert. IMO

      • KJT 3.1.2
        8 November 2019 at 11:23 am

        https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/nov/06/ok-boomer-meme-older-generations

        "Like much of online culture, “OK Boomer” tells us something about the cultural dominance of upper-middle-class youth. These young people are surrounded by baby boomers who’ve “hoarded all the wealth” and polluted the planet in the process. They haven’t had to witness – or deal with the ramifications of – old age and precarity for millions of working people in that generational cohort. Instead they get to revel without self-reflection in oedipal angst about their elders – many of whom were kind enough to pass them their ill-gotten privileges".

        • marty mars 3.1.2.1
          8 November 2019 at 11:53 am

          mate here is another one boomersplaining

          … Furthermore, as an economist I see the word "boom" as having a generally positive connotation.

          On the negative side, I worry that those who deploy "OK Boomer" are putting themselves down and signalling their own impotence. I am not arguing for "[Expletive Deleted] Boomer," even though it would have a vitality and rebellious spirit very much reminiscent of the 1960s or 1970s (which of course were quintessential boomer eras).

          But when I read or hear "OK Boomer," I start to think there might be something special about baby boomers after all. We boomers may not be different in kind from other generations, but we do seem to inspire rhetorical creativity in our critics.

          https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion-analysis/117259704/ok-kids–this-boomer-has-had-enough

          • KJT 3.1.2.1.1
            8 November 2019 at 12:02 pm

            Marty. I think you are reacting, without trying to understand.

            Māori were powerless to do anything about colonization for years. So I don't blame many older Māori for not doing anything. Also I don't blame those in the boomer generation who had no power to change things, either. It is not as though they didn't try. Which was why 1984 Labour only got two terms.

            Environmental and economic destruction is hardly the fault of the type of people who spent their lives, opposing both.

            • weka 3.1.2.1.1.1
              8 November 2019 at 12:07 pm

              I see lots of boomers who did well out of the neolib reforms and were/are uninterested in changing that. But I just don't see millennials as significantly better (eg if they really wanted to make change, then mobilise the vote). Each generation has its share of selfish people and those that will do the mahi to effect good change.

              Millennials were raised by people to be more progressive than the previous generation, and they will become more conservative as they grow older, just like every other generation before them (including the radical boomers). I find the whole gen war stupid, and at this point in history it's dangerous.

            • marty mars 3.1.2.1.1.2
              8 November 2019 at 12:12 pm

              I agree with you about the elite leading the way and that that is a 'class' issue for want of a better term. I think western countries are in the 'elite' group although groups within that are disadvantaged and vulnerable. The boomer label and ok boomer in particular are just another classification.

              It is a bit low bringing colonisation into the argument – boomers PARTICIPATED they weren't dragged kicking and screaming as their culture was ridiculed and attempted to be destroyed.

              • Robert Guyton …
                8 November 2019 at 12:24 pm

                Ngai Tahu participated, "marrying" off some of their wahine to sealers and whalers, making alignments and alliances through binding Maori and Pakeha into whanau. It was a wise strategy, instigated by tangata whenua. Whenua Hou served as the "melting pot" for many families who live in this part of the world. Holders of mana whenua were not "dragged kicking and screaming" into that relationship. IMO

                • marty mars …
                  8 November 2019 at 12:42 pm

                  what the hell would you know – lol – it is irrelevant to the discussion but it appears you have started dirty tactics eh – talk about your own heritage not mine Robert ok.

                  • Brigid …
                    8 November 2019 at 1:48 pm

                    "talk about your own heritage not mine Robert"

                    That's just bloody stupid.

                    Should we discount Michael King's and Vincent O'Malley's writings because they aren't of Maori descent but they have written about your heritage and educated us all?

                    fuksake man

                    • marty mars …
                      8 November 2019 at 1:54 pm

                      it was a pointed comment and he and I know it – your opinions are yours and bully for you – hint – not everything is as blunt and obvious as you suppose

              • Robert Guyton …
                8 November 2019 at 12:30 pm

                On Boomers, many PARTICIPATED because they/we were born into the culture. It takes time to unravel that culture, see beyond it and move beyond it, if that's even possible. Are you critical of how boomers behaved when they were children? Do you have a cut-off point at which you expect boomers to reject their culture? And which boomer behaviours do you believe are wrong? All of them? How about altruism? Many boomers are altruistic . Intermarriage? Many boomers are married outside of their race. Environmental sensitivity? Many boomers are actively improving and protecting the wild environment. It's not as simple as requiring that boomers "accept responsibility for their actions". IMO

              • KJT …
                8 November 2019 at 1:28 pm

                I think we were. Our culture of fairness, egalitarianism, and equal opportunity, was destroyed. In a very few short years. We did believe in a “fair go” for everyone.

                It was like we were colonized by yet another strange culture. In this case the Chicago Boys.

                And. Some of the boomers who suffered the most, were fairly prosperous boomer Māori working class, who were absolutely marginalised, along with many others who started work, young. Forced out of jobs like train driving, onto the dole.

                We didn't participate, at least I didn't. Kicked and screamed all the way.

    • Climaction 3.2
      8 November 2019 at 9:02 am

      Ok boomer. Only stupid old boomers don’t get the meme. It’s not inter-generational warfare, it’s an ironic thank you for the mess the boomer generation left us, yet deny us any of our complaints because apparently things were so amazing in your times and we don’t do what you do. We do what we can in the world you left us, as you dreamily remember the good old days as if it was perfect, with no racism or sexism or misogyny, and feel a stirring in your loins at the outdated hate speech associated with class war.

      • Robert Guyton 3.2.1
        8 November 2019 at 9:17 am

        "old" boomers?

        Are there young boomers?

        • Climaction 3.2.1.1
          8 November 2019 at 9:34 am

          you Just don’t get it do you? Your boomer mentality sees it as perhaps an age thing, along with the hairy old socialist trying to equate ok boomer as right wing meme so boomers like yourselves can feel above being mocked about being a boomer.

          • Robert Guyton 3.2.1.1.1
            8 November 2019 at 9:48 am

            What's a "meme"?

          • Robert Guyton 3.2.1.1.2
            8 November 2019 at 9:55 am

            Mock the boomers! *Mock the boomers!

            Mock! Mock! Mock!

            *Always ends well

            • Climaction 3.2.1.1.2.1
              8 November 2019 at 11:52 am

              An old white male expressing borrow that he isn’t instantly shown respect… what a surprise

              • Robert Guyton …
                8 November 2019 at 11:59 am

                Your borrow is my sorrow, Climaction.

                I've always said, "Respect my authoritah!" and having a young whipper-snapper like you speaking out of turn and criticising those who brought you this wonderful way of life is mighty galling!

                RESPECT MY AUTHORITAH!

              • Cricklewood …
                8 November 2019 at 2:34 pm

                I'd wage Robert has done more for the climate in real practical actions than most in New Zealand.

          • KJT 3.2.1.1.3
            8 November 2019 at 11:32 am

            Generational warfare, IS a right wing meme. To distract from the real problem, which is class.

            Are you trying to tell me that the boomers who lost their livelihood in the 80's and never had a decent job since, are the cause of anything. I know many that are entering retirement with absolutely, nothing.

            I suggest that many of the University educated commenters on here are somewhat divorced from the reality of the over 40% of boomers entering retirement, without a house in their name.

            Particularly galling when it is young upper middle class, who have benefited from all the wrongs that were done, and very often vote for it’s continuation, use it.

            • Sacha 3.2.1.1.3.1
              8 November 2019 at 11:38 am

              'Boomer' is now a cultural group, no longer just a demographic fact.

              'OK' is merely what younger-at-heart folk say when tired of responding rationally for the umpeenth time to someone saying they just need to stop eating avocados and do what we did 'in our day'.

              It is this year's equivalent of 'whatever'.

              • weka …
                8 November 2019 at 11:58 am

                Imagine constructing a negating meme around women, or disabled people, and then arguing that those are now cultural groups not just demographics.

                That blurring of Boomer as old person and Boomer as selfish, regressive privilege holder is a problem because ageism is a real thing (esp for Pākehā) and we don't have good progressive politics around it. We generally leave it to Grey Power and the chuckle when they do something that's not oldie.

                I have less of a problem with Ok Boomer, than I do with lefties and progressives largely ignoring the problems with old ageism in way they'd never tolerate with any other marginalised group and not being willing to bring old ageism into the conversation.

                A really good example is the politics around Generation Rent that never talks about what happens to elderly people who are basically on the dole with high rents and shivering in their homes in winter.

                • Sacha …
                  8 November 2019 at 12:08 pm

                  I'm explaining what the term is, not agreeing with all of its implications. Today's younger people are more attuned to style as well as substance.

                  ‘Not All Boomers’ looks like Not All Men’.

                • KJT …
                  8 November 2019 at 1:13 pm

                  I think the right wing has been so successful in pitting the generations against each other that even lefties, who should know better, are adopting it.

                  I am not so concerned about Chloe because she is a person whose achievements I have considerable respect for, and I think she will come to understand why it is counterproductive to spread RW, rich kid, memes. I am sad that people who should be allies, are blaming each other.

                  The "selfish boomers" is no more true of a generation, than the "Young mums breeding for a living", "teenage dole bludgers" "Māori ferals", and "Avocado munchers" are of anyone else.. I find all those unthinking stereotypes false and offensive.

                • KJT …
                  8 November 2019 at 1:18 pm

                  Over 80% of the pre boomer generation owned their own homes.

                  Less than 60% of boomers. And many, like me, are still mortgaged to help our Kids.

                  I think some like Climaction are a bit confused about who got the 3% loans and land grants, Certainly long gone by my day. Removed by the people in Parliament, who gained from them.

            • Climaction 3.2.1.1.3.2
              8 November 2019 at 11:51 am

              Maybe you should stop running with a pack of idiots? The generation that presided over the greatest increase in wealth and expansion of the middle class, after free education and cheap houses, now approaches retirement with nothing? Don’t look to you her generations for support. You left the world, and obviously your own lives, in a mess we are expected to fix without the benefits you enjoyed.

              talk about giving yourself an uppercut

              • KJT …
                8 November 2019 at 12:51 pm

                You don't have a fucking clue, do you?

                By the way, Neo-liberalism was bought to us by politicians in the generation before boomers. We tried to vote the buggers out, but there was only a choice of two Neo-liberal parties. Which is why we supported MMP. So the barstards couldn’t do it again. Unfortunately they did, anyway.

                Cheap houses? It cost a greater percentage of our weekly wage to buy a house when we bought ours, than it does, now. After scrambling to get 30% deposits while inflation was over 15%.

                And we paid 60% top tax rate on moderate incomes, more than you pay in student loans and tax combined, now. so the previous generation could retire at 60 and so 10% of us, the children of the rich, had free tertiary education.

                • Robert Guyton …
                  8 November 2019 at 12:59 pm

                  KJT – "Boomers" is such a nebulous topic that I think some people are unable to discuss it sensibly, whether they are inside or outside of the "Boomer" tent. It's curious. I wonder if, had Chloe said, "Okay Willy Wonker", the candy-producers would be getting a thrashing on the blogs and comments sections of the country's rags smiley

                • Climaction …
                  8 November 2019 at 3:30 pm

                  I have lot's of clues. clues from all your "NeO-Luberalism is the enemy" rants that you can't see the problems that face society require a more nuanced and inclusive approach. but being a boomer, you've always had it so easy and you're generation spent so much time culturally colonising the whole world you can't stop spluttering in indigantion when the youth don't like your proscriptions and don't accept your pearls of wisdom are valid.

                  you may as well work on fox news for all your "Good ol' days with the good ol' union lads" rants are relevant.

                  • Robert Guyton …
                    8 November 2019 at 3:46 pm

                    Just wondering, Climaction, if you see yourself as representative of Post-Boomers? Typical of them, that is, able to think the way they do, act the way they do, express yourself the way they do?

                  • KJT …
                    8 November 2019 at 4:27 pm

                    Funny thing is the yoof, are advocating the policies and progress I've been fighting for all along.

                    I doubt you are really one of them, though. In fact it seems like the "boomer" mindset you describe describes your position more accurately, than mine.

                    You’ve been well brainwashed, by right wing propaganda.

              • KJT …
                8 November 2019 at 1:45 pm

                Due to our efforts, you can now vote for a non Neo-liberal party, the Greens, where we only had the choice of either of two, Neo-liberal stuffups.

                So. FFS. Put your money where your mouth is and vote for them. Non boomers are over 70% of eligible voters. So statistically it looks like you are mostly voting for a continuation of the same policies you reckon are "boomer", stuffups.

              • Brigid …
                8 November 2019 at 2:32 pm

                " ..the 3% loans… Removed by the people in Parliament, who gained from them." e.g. Wayne Mapp

                Our Housing Corp mortgage was initially floating at 7%. Within 5 years it had been sold to ANZ and rose to 18%.

                By the mid 1990s (when I was studying) tertiary education was not free. I still owe $40k in student loans.

                Incidentally we built our home and changed the head gasket on our 30 yr old cars. The generation that followed us seems unable to change a light bulb for fear being non compliant and having a lack of the no.8 wire mentality.

                I belong to the baby boomer demographic.

                How much plastic have you bought this week Climaction?

    • Sacha 3.3
      8 November 2019 at 9:28 am

      Boomer is an attitude. And it wasn't millenials who published all thoise media puffpieces about avocados and snowflakes.

      • KJT 3.3.1
        8 November 2019 at 11:41 am

        Have a look at the age of many writing those clickbait, pieces.

        • Sacha 3.3.1.1
          8 November 2019 at 11:54 am

          Have a look at the age of the owners and editors – anyway it's no longer about age, it's attitude.

          • McFlock 3.3.1.1.1
            8 November 2019 at 2:08 pm

            And who the target audience is (and therefore the demographic advertisers believe have the disposable cash in society).

            The "ok boomer" thing isn't just about generational war, it is actually about the power dynamics within society. About how the media get clickbait from "dumb millennial" stories, with headlines like "millennials don't know hard work" and then "millennials killed the power lunch".

            And most people called "boomer" tend to be of apparent European descent. Could just be my perception, but that hints at maybe another social power dynamic going on as well.

  4. Jimmy 4
    8 November 2019 at 9:01 am

    Some of you people on here need to eat some ice cream as it will make you happy.

    I'm off to sue Red Bull as I drank a can and didn't get any wings.

  5. marty mars 5
    8 November 2019 at 9:40 am

    oh dear what a pity – the nazi cowards will be quaking in their jackboots – all those 'respectable' nazis will be so worried and they will be driven into the light where we will all be able to see them and their disguises.

    An apparent online leak of materials from influential neo-Nazi website Iron March, which has linked to several murders and acts of extremist terrorism, has the potential to identify hundreds of extremists around the world.

    …According to the Southern Poverty Law Center, Iron March was “affiliated with or offered support to at least nine fascist groups in nine different countries”, including Serbia, Greece, Australia and Ukraine. The chats, too, appear to feature users from a range of different countries.

    The website was also central to the development of “accelerationist” neo-Nazi ideology – which seeks to destabilize and replace liberal democracy by exacerbating its tensions with violence – and aesthetic of so-called Siege culture, which takes in skull masks and violent and racist memes.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/nov/07/neo-nazi-site-iron-march-materials-leak

  6. Gerard Byrne 6
    8 November 2019 at 10:55 am

    My wife has just finished an appeal hearing in the Whangarei District court. Byrne Vs NZTA, 4-6 nov, 2019. we are awaiting judgment.

    During this hearing evidence was produced by nzta that confirmed they were spying on my wife and family,(including our 6yr old son).

    They used a male employee to spy on a female employee of a nzta supplier (wsp opus) condoned by senior nzta management, with a special mention under oath for acting ceo of the time, brett gliddon.

    They did not inform their supplier wsp opus that they were spying on an employee of theirs.

    This male employee has a colourful police history. He also testified that he is spying on other families in our isolated community.

    the spying is still continuing, and my wife has had to move away for work.

    she fears for her safety from this male employee,

    This has been ongoing for almost two years now.

    they have spent in excess of $150,000 on this, while offering my wife $7,500 to shut up and go away.

    I say , shame on you NZTA.

    • Ad 6.1
      8 November 2019 at 11:04 am

      Talk to Radio NZ and tell them.

      You'll find them sympathetic.

      • Gerard Byrne 6.1.1
        8 November 2019 at 11:18 am

        hi Ad, thank you for your comment.

        we are not looking for sympathy.

        i did get a fair airing on magic talk last week, and i thank steven for that.

        RNZ are a little aloof for me.

        • Dukeofurl 6.1.1.1
          8 November 2019 at 4:06 pm

          The reason for the court case please ? Do they want to compulsory acquire your land or its it related to vehicle certification?

          Regarding spying , wasnt that stopped after all the Thompson and Clark shady details came out. Look that up and ask how that decision affects you.

          • Nic the NZer 6.1.1.1.1
            8 November 2019 at 6:18 pm

            There is an employment dispute mentioned in the Herald.

            • Gerard Byrne 6.1.1.1.1.1
              9 November 2019 at 6:51 am

              a man from the agency said he was scared of my wife, she is 5; 4" and 45kgs. he is ex military.the nzta believed him and then ordered my wifes dismissal. she is a professional engineer with 20yrs experience. she took them to the era and the era found in nzta favour. my wife appealed and this is the hearing.

              they were spying on us to get dirt on her.

  7. marty mars 7
    8 November 2019 at 11:28 am

    This is really a big problem – our society is not giving people what they want or need. So many people are suffering. The canaries in the coalmine are dying in front of our eyes.

    A study by the New Zealand Medical Association published in the New Zealand Medical Journal on Friday analysed the number of antidepressants dispensed to those aged 24 and under between 2007 and 2016.

    It showed the rate had increased by 83 per cent, from 1361 lots of antidepressants being dispensed to those aged between 13 and 17 for every 100,000 New Zealanders in that age group to 2494 per 100,000 young people.

    …Rates were highest among women aged 18 to 24 but had also increased for children aged 12 and under by 15 per cent.

    …Young Pākehā were being given antidepressants at nearly twice the rate of Māori and four times the rate of Pasifika and Asians.

    That was despite Māori and Pasifika people having higher rates of mental health problems than Pākehā.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/117233451/use-of-antidepressants-among-teenagers-rises-83-per-cent-in-nine-years

    • KJT 7.1
      8 November 2019 at 11:35 am

      At $45 plus a doctors visit, only the well off can afford to be healthy.

      • Dukeofurl 7.1.1
        8 November 2019 at 4:01 pm

        No its not. My doctor clinic charges $18.50. The ones that charge $45 plus ARE in well off areas , as the funding is based in socio-economic status of the patients/neighbourhood.

        • KJT 7.1.1.1
          8 November 2019 at 4:40 pm

          Mine charges $17, in a relatively average area. But there is no way any new patients can get in.

          The one in the poor area in town charges $45, for new patients. As does the A and E.

          I suspect in part because of a funding cut, when he was getting too loud supporting his patients.

  8. marty mars 8
    8 November 2019 at 11:43 am

    wow – that creates an epiphany for me – so obvious once known

    An indigenous studies researcher says the formation of gangs can be traced back to the historical state care of young people, particularly Māori.

    …Professor McIntosh spoke of 1975 as an important year in the development of gangs.

    She said 80 percent of young boys in youth residences at the time were Māori, and that was important in the start-up of gangs.

    …Professor McIntosh said among the very early gang members the "vast majority" had gone through residential care homes such as Epuni.

    "The state's role in gang formation, particularly early gang formation, is incredibly significant and cannot be overstated."

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/402731/state-care-institutions-central-to-early-gang-formation-academic

    • KJT 8.1
      8 November 2019 at 11:55 am

      Not surprised.

      And the many Māori Men put out of work by the Neo-liberal, "unfortunate experiment" shortly afterwards.

      • marty mars 8.1.1
        8 November 2019 at 12:20 pm

        Yep – good to join the dots

        • KJT 8.1.1.1
          8 November 2019 at 12:59 pm

          Climaction. Above, has NFA, how devastating the 80's reforms were to so many working class families. Followed of course by Richardsons, welfare cuts, devastating communities even more.

    • Sacha 8.2
      8 November 2019 at 12:15 pm

      Missing jigsaw piece, eh. NZ disability activism in the 1980s came from the same source – state residential institutions.

  9. adam 9
    8 November 2019 at 12:57 pm

    Comes with a trigger warning for 'moderates' as it's from RT.

    It's humour and it's talking about Chile. 5 min long – In solidarity.



  11. marty mars 11
    8 November 2019 at 1:49 pm

    wow – so bad imo – just resign – hasn't even watched the video about her departments utter disgraceful actions wtf?

    The attempted removal was captured on film by Newsroom who brought the story to public attention, but Ms Martin and Oranga Tamariki's head questioned the video at the time. However, Ms Martin told Morning Report's Corin Dann she did not believe an apology was required and still had not watched it.

    "I personally won't ever accept that trial by social media is the way to do care and protection … I don't need to watch the video."

    She said she did not need to watch the video in order to conduct her job.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/402823/oranga-tamariki-inquiry-serious-consequences-over-attempted-removal-of-baby

    • marty mars 11.1
      8 November 2019 at 2:32 pm

      Nice analysis

      When you skim through the report on Oranga Tamariki’s attempted removal of a newborn baby in Hawkes Bay you could be forgiven for thinking it was a governmental introduction to Māori language and culture.There’s smatterings of Māori words and cultural terminology liberally sprinkled throughout. It looks like an attempt to hide behind a façade of Maori culture while completely missing the point of the cultural values it’s trying to co-opt.

      Because then there’s the jarring phrases that admit they screwed it up.

      https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2019/11/08/901167/a-big-fat-boomerang#

      • marty mars 11.1.1
        8 November 2019 at 3:00 pm

        Good call

        Whānau Ora Commissioning Chair Merepeka Raukawa-Tait says a fish rots from the head and Oranga Tamariki leadership needs to take responsibility for its systemic failures – not throw its staff under the bus.

        …She said the response by Children’s Minister Tracy Martin and OT CEO Grainne Moss to blame their own social workers’ frontline practices is indicative of the toxic culture that is deeply entrenched and imbued within the failing system.

        “The hypocrisy is not lost on us. Here you have a state agency destructively making its own determination on what’s best for whānau riding rough shot without any consideration of the far reaching intergenerational devastating impacts,” Raukawa-Tait says.

        “Yet ironically it is perpetuating a violent act which is what it seeks to protect the pēpi from.”

        https://www.waateanews.com/waateanews/x_news/MjMwODA/Collusion-between-Oranga-Tamariki-&-Family-Court-called-out-by-Maori

        • Dukeofurl 11.1.1.1
          8 November 2019 at 3:48 pm

          You follow politics , you follow NZ politics to the nth degree, you you still dont follow that the Ministers arent involved in these sort of operational decisions. Nor would they want to.

          Why would she resign? Sure if it was a 'process' that required ministerial signoff , sure . It wasnt.

          Where was Raukawa Tait of Te Pou Matakana/WOCA when this happened –
          “One of three commissioning agencies, Te Pou Matakana receives around $40 million in Whānau Ora funding each year.

          It distributes money to frontline providers. But it has been revealed a surplus of $600,000 was pocketed by the commissioning agency and paid out to its private shareholder.”
          https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/wh-nau-ora-minister-demands-explanation-after-commissioning-agency-pays-600k-its-shareholder

          WOCA is a private company inspite of the ‘agency’ in the name

          • marty mars 11.1.1.1.1
            8 November 2019 at 4:53 pm

            Yes I do follow politics ta Ministers can resign for all sorts of reasons such as this example

            On 30 May 1996 Denis Marshall resigned as minister of conservation as an 'expression of sorrow' for the Cave Creek tragedy of the previous year, in which 14 people had been killed when a Department of Conservation viewing platform collapsed. He had chosen not to resign at the time, but to stay on and rectify matters in his department – an interpretation of ministerial vicarious responsibility that had some support from other politicians. However, some of those affected by the tragedy, and members of the public, felt he should have resigned earlier.

            https://teara.govt.nz/en/zoomify/34368/a-minister-resigns

            The minister today can't even watch the recording of the events which led to the inquiry and severe reprimand for her department – so severe that practices of staff have been changed immediately!!! She should go imo.

  12. A 12
    8 November 2019 at 2:28 pm

    In the event of a sudden decompression passengers inside the Dreamliner might die from lack of oxygen. Good to know.

    https://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/incidents/exengineer-claims-boeings-dreamliner-could-be-dangerous/news-story/63af8c84a7cbe94db5655d64463edfc7

  13. Anne 13
    8 November 2019 at 3:49 pm

    If this story doesn't do a person's head in then there is something wrong with the person:

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/402840/abuse-survivor-raped-at-foster-homes-sexually-abused-by-nun

  14. soddenleaf 14
    8 November 2019 at 3:54 pm

    Capital is hard to find in NZ. No. Not the hidden away city at the bottom of the N.Island. No, financing businesses. Seems that if we advantage capital gain it sucks investment capital for other projects. Labour have said No. National think benefitaries can get us back, yeah like a few hundred beanies if only they were in work… ..no, the problem is our parliament is hidden away on a fault line waiting to be moved to S. Auckland. Next big shake…

    • Sacha 14.1
      8 November 2019 at 4:00 pm

      Hamilton or Whangarei are safer, if that's the criteria.

    • KJT 14.2
      8 November 2019 at 4:29 pm

      12% business interest rates, when overseas competitors are paying less than 3% is a big margin to make up. Unless you are buying land for capital gains tax free farming, of course.

    • Karol121 14.3
      8 November 2019 at 5:01 pm

      Well. The ChCh shake sure paved the way for some well overdue development investment in the area.

      I keep spare, fresh drinking water in the shed and in a wardrobe in the house just in case. And I live within walking distance of a fresh water river.

      A small burner, a lighter, a torch and a sealed plastic box full of long life basic beverage additives (cordial, tea, coffee, whatever and some sugar) may not seem much day to day. But you may really need it after a major event.

      • Blazer 14.3.1
        8 November 2019 at 7:40 pm

        get a can opener and a…gun!wink

        [lprent: Just what every useless unsafe dimwit needs – right? Along with vitamin deficiencies and bad breath and other hygiene issues.

        *sigh* – Any irresponsible dickhead who says something like that is someone who should never hold a firearms license or a weapon. At the very least they need to gets some arms training, and some socialisation training in how to deal with people without waving a surrogate penis as if it was magic talisman. Clearly their parents failed in the socialisation, hygiene or installation of common sense. ]

        • Karol121 14.3.1.1
          13 November 2019 at 4:13 pm

          Blazer.

          Well put (gun, that is). However, I understand the emotive posts in response though.

          But bluntly, many do say that most societies are only three meals from anarchy, so firearms (or other weapons) as protection tools do make sense. Although cohesive communities (as opposed to general society) that are geared towards survival in a crisis might look to other ways of managing that crisis.

          Guns, traps, fishing nets and lines in times of civil emergency would at least provide some means to acquire protein and nourishment by way of animal, fish and bird as prey.

          Perhaps your post might have been somewhat misconstrued by others.