Open mike 08/05/2016

77 comments on “Open mike 08/05/2016 ”

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1. RTM 1

   8 May 2016 at 7:18 am

   Imperial war, refugees, radical writers locked in madhouses & exiled to baches: the NZ Herald acknowledges some of Auckland’s secret past: http://readingthemaps.blogspot.co.nz/2016/05/the-city-of-words.html
   http://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/news/article.cfm?c_id=1501119&objectid=11635380
2. Penny Bright 2

   8 May 2016 at 7:19 am

   “Paying tax in NZ – it’s mandatory for poor wage slaves – avoidable by rich prick$.

   Yip.”

   ShonKEY.
   • Naki man 2.1

     8 May 2016 at 7:40 pm

     “Paying tax in NZ – it’s mandatory for poor wage slaves – avoidable by rich prick$”

     So you are a tax bludging rich prick
     • Paul 2.1.1

       8 May 2016 at 7:42 pm

       Don’t you have better things to do?
3. Penny Bright 3

   8 May 2016 at 7:27 am

   So – has any information EVER been shared between NZ and the Cook Islands regarding tax evasion and avoidance by NZ citizens using Cook Island tax ‘structures’ on NZ Prime Minister John Key’s watch?

   If yes – what was the outcome?

   http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/politics/peters-key-shirking-responsibilty-for-financial-fraud-in-cook-islands/

   Winston Peters says tax avoidance in the Cook Islands has happened under the watch of prime minister John Key.

   Key has rubbished accusations from the Panama Papers leaker that he has enabled financial fraud in the Cook Islands, which exists in free association with New Zealand.

   But the New Zealand First leader, who triggered the Winebox Inquiry in Cook Islands tax avoidance in the 1990s, said the prime minister does have a role to play.

   He said New Zealand and the Cook Islands have an ongoing Tax Information Exchange Agreement which was updated in July 2009.

   “That updating was to do with exchange of information about two things, tax avoidance and tax evasion, so Mr Key is 100 percent wrong about his responsibility.”

   Penny Bright
   2016 Auckland Mayoral candidate.
   • Stunnedmullet 3.1

     8 May 2016 at 7:50 am

     What’s any of that got to do with the Auckland council elections ?
     • Penny Bright 3.1.1

       8 May 2016 at 7:54 am

       The fact, in my opinion, that New Zealand is a corrupt, polluted tax haven, is a problem locally, nationally and internationally.

       Kind regards

       Penny Bright
       2016 Auckland Mayoral candidate.
       • OneTrack 3.1.1.1

         8 May 2016 at 8:30 pm

         Which has exactly what to do with the Auckland Council elections?

         And what, exactly, do you think a “tax haven” is? Wikipedia will help.
     • greywarshark 3.1.2

       8 May 2016 at 9:24 pm

       Everything is connected stunned mullet – even you to everyone in your street, town, island etc. It’s good that Penny is trying to do something about the unsatisfactory situation outside Auckland. Do you think that Auckland needs her focus? What suggestions have you to improve the broken systems in your area?
   • Alan W 3.2

     8 May 2016 at 7:53 am

     you are not in a position to call out anyone on not paying what they owe Penny
     • Penny Bright 3.2.1

       8 May 2016 at 8:07 am

       Why on earth is that?

       I’ve put my freehold home on the line to protect my lawful rights as a citizen to ‘open. transparent and democratically accountable’ local government in Auckland.

       I have disputed and refused to pay Auckland Council (previously Auckland City Council) rates, because ‘the books’ are NOT open, and citizens and ratepayers do not know exactly where hundreds of million$ of public rates monies are being spent by Auckland Council and Council (Corporate) Controlled Organisations (CCOs) on private sector consultants and contractors.

       This is the information to which I believe I and ALL citizens are entitled under the Public Records Act 2005, s.17 :

       The unique contract number.
       The name of the consultant / contractor.
       A brief description of the scope of the contract.
       The contract start and finish date.
       The exact dollar value of every contract – including those sub-contracted.
       How the contract was awarded – by public tender or direct appointment.

       How can you ‘follow the dollar’ – if you don’t know exactly where it’s going?

       How can you check for ‘cost-effectiveness’ if you don’t know exactly where the costs fall?

       How can you have genuine transparency, or accountability with proper public records available for public scrutiny?

       Penny Bright
       2016 Auckland Mayoral candidate.

       (‘Activists’ – get things done).
       • Visubversa 3.2.1.1

         8 May 2016 at 9:46 am

         Nobody asked you to do this Penny. And what sort of corruption can a redundant welding tutor find that qualified auditors etc cannot? And what sort of return have the Auckland ratepayers had for your 7 or so years of investigations? How many cases of corruption have you uncovered? Nada, none, zip.
         I suppose it gives you something to do.
         • One Two 3.2.1.1.1

           8 May 2016 at 10:25 am

           Nobody has to ask

           Just pay your taxes and rates no questions asked, there’s a good citizen

           There is no corruption or fraud at local or central government level….back to sleep
           • Visubversa 3.2.1.1.1.1

             8 May 2016 at 10:35 am

             No – just real scrutiny by people who know what they are doing. People with qualifications.
             • Reddelusion …

               8 May 2016 at 3:53 pm

               Challenge the system by all means, but if every one followed our not so Penny Brights lead where would we be, i.e simply avoid paying rates and tax based on your personal belief, right or wrong, wether you pay simply comes down to your own personal bright line test
             • Naki man …

               8 May 2016 at 7:51 pm

               “No – just real scrutiny by people who know what they are doing. People with qualifications”

               Dont be too harsh Penny once held a welding ticket.
               Mind you i have seen her use an angle grinder and she hasn’t got a clue
               how to do that safely.
             • greywarshark …

               8 May 2016 at 9:31 pm

               Visubversa
               I don’t think you sound as if you have any qualifications to even put a criticism here. Why don’t you find something positive to do with your rime instead of sneering at someone who attempts to make a protest and show up a fault in the system. You apparently find excuses not to do anything yourself because you haven’t the integrity or strength to stand up for something better.
               edited
   • ianmac 3.3

     8 May 2016 at 9:52 am

     “He said New Zealand and the Cook Islands have an ongoing Tax Information Exchange Agreement which was updated in July 2009.

     “That updating was to do with exchange of information about two things, tax avoidance and tax evasion, so Mr Key is 100 percent wrong about his responsibility.”
     A very useful point Penny. And with a bit of luck John Key will have to address this next week in light of his flat denial last week. Wiggle will he?
4. save nz 4

   8 May 2016 at 7:55 am

   Very interesting article, the Marocs even first went into exile in Hawaii, sounds like a favourite place for corrupt politicians ….

   http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/may/07/10bn-dollar-question-marcos-millions-nick-davies

   “Marcos was one of the first to exploit the rats’ nest of secret jurisdictions and hidden ownership then in the early stages of being built beneath the floorboards of public life.

   But what is most important about Marcos is that he committed his crimes as a politician. His career starts with a cynicism that now seems familiar – manipulating electorates, using money to buy power and power to make money. But he went one big step further in merging politics and finance, converting the instruments of government into one vast cash machine. A handful of other autocrats were also busy stealing from their people in that era – in Haiti, Nicaragua, Iran – but Marcos stole more and he stole better. Ultimately, he emerges as a laboratory specimen from the early stages of a contemporary epidemic: the global contagion of corruption that has since spread through Africa and South America, the Middle East and parts of Asia. Marcos was a model of the politician as thief.”
   • Draco T Bastard 4.1

     8 May 2016 at 3:37 pm

     Ultimately, he emerges as a laboratory specimen from the early stages of a contemporary epidemic: the global contagion of corruption that has since spread through Africa and South America, the Middle East and parts of Asia. Marcos was a model of the politician as thief.

     And is now emerging in NZ, the UK, the US, Europe…
5. Jenny 5

   8 May 2016 at 8:04 am

   Climate Change Pt 1: What are we waiting for?

   The rebuttal Part 1

   “If you want to talk about what the government or political parties should be doing, or that CC is the responsibility of governments not individuals, please go to Open Mike. This post is for discussion about what NZers can do themselves and how that is part of the politics of Climate Change.”
   Weka

   Climate Change Change Pt 1: What are we waiting for?

   Weka gives us his opinion on how to combat climate change, and asks, if we disagree with him to raise it here;

   In his post, “Climate Change Pt 1: What are we waiting for?” Weka asks that anyone who thinks “that CC is the responsibility of governments not individuals, please go to Open Mike.”

   Hopefully in Pt 2: of his post, (if it ever turns up), Weka will set out what he thinks political parties and governments should do.

   In the meantime while we are waiting, I thought that we could set the ball rolling.

   Preamble:

   There is no task that is truely worth being done by human beings, that does not require team work. Whether it is building a house, or building a road, or crossing an ocean. There is hardly any major task that I can think of that doesn’t require teamwork and cooperation. it is our greatest strength as a species. And teamwork always requires leadership. This is an inescapable fact.

   And the fight against climate change is the biggest most monumental task humanity has ever faced. it will require the teamwork of millions to solve.

   So how should we go about it?

   Can we just leave it up to personal responsibility?
   Something Weka calls a “Riot for Austerity”

   Or should we also be campaigning for a change in public policy?

   In my opinion, the individual approach to fighting climate change, is a philosophical approach to climate change, that even the ACT Party could agree with. ACT, the Association of Consumers and Taxpayers say they are the party that is all about individual choice. A campaign based on the power of consumers is I imagine something that they could agree with.
   Less government intervention and regulation, leaving more room for personal choice, and individual action, is the ACT mantra.
   In fact they are always going on about it. Recently an ACT spokesperson said that the reason some tenants live in damp unhealthy homes is because of personal choices they have made.

   Others beg to differ:

   “Put simply, it’s not choice. It’s not choice that our kids are suffering with poor health, living in damp homes and less likely to do well at school. It’s also not the child’s choice – or their families – to live in poverty,” says Children’s Commissioner Dr Russell Wills.

   “There is choice around how we as a country respond to this. We have to take it seriously, we need a clear national plan for doing better…..”

   http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1512/S00209/child-poverty-monitor-2015-released.htm

   In my opinion what could be said for poverty, can be said for climate change.

   Climate choice is a fine thing for the Association of Consumers and Taxpayer members, whose leader David Seymour, (to prove his climate change credentials), turned up to the ACT Party Conference in a NZD $140,000 Tesler S1.

   Weka argues that we exercise our choice as consumers to combat climate change.

   In my opinion, this so called “choice”, can only be properly exercised by the wealthy or the upper middle classes, those with the leisure and the money that gives them the freedom to make such choices. There is very little choice for the time strapped and cash poor. The power of consumer choice is not for a minimum wage worker from South or West Auckland who has to struggle to work in an unregistered clapped out Toyota, because there is no affordable and reliable public transport system.

   Nor is there much power of consumer choice for the solo mother or beneficiary who has to keep the bar heater on all winter because their home is badly insulated. Which is why Andrew Little has introduced legislation for minimum heating and insulation regulations for rental properties.

   Changes in public policy will have more impact in combatting climate change than personal consumer choices ever will.

   Of course we should all do what we can as individuals but this will never be enough, and for many, (possibly the majority), and especially for those of us with limited choices, actually impossible. No matter how much we may want to, or know we should.
   • Ad 5.1

     8 May 2016 at 2:15 pm

     A point Naomi Klein makes in her last book is that over the same era of acceleration of climate change’s harm i.e. the last 30 years, many countries willingly shrank the whole realm of the state, thereby weakening the human capacity to actually change the climate.

     She may be right, but the state is still the strongest force of human agency ever devised, and probably ever will be. Popular protest can work, but it’s a massive lottery compared to putting your collective might to changing the entire government.

     Trusts, NGOs, anarchy-syndicalist communes, or micro-communal vegetable gardens will never amount to the capacity of the state to change stuff on any scale the climate will notice.

     New Zealand’s own electricity generation at around 85% renewable owes that performance to a legacy of command-and-control governments that continued for about 80 years (i.e. from Vogel). Unlike China and Singapore, New Zealand is a strong example of how a kind of sustainability can be achieved without sacrificing too much democracy, and at the same time attain very long term good for people and for the climate.
     • weka 5.1.1

       8 May 2016 at 2:54 pm

       This is a good point about the sheer power of the state, and I agree. However it’s a false dichotomy to put that up against community initiated change. The whole point of my post was that governments aren’t changing fast enough. The value in things like the Riot and community gardens isn’t simply that they reduce emissions (although they certainly lead the way in what should be being done on that front). The real value is that those things change people, and when enough people are changing the governments will change too. Then we have real potential.

       The other side of that is that should the NZ govt start on real CC action, if the people aren’t on board things will get messy. Best to have people changing now, so we are ready. The best way for people to change is to start behaving differently, in the manner in which we should be acting in the first place.
   • weka 5.2

     8 May 2016 at 2:50 pm

     Thanks Jenny, good too see the response (and thanks for bringing it to OM).

     I’d like to clarify a few things.

     Neither the Riot for Austerity nor my own post were suggesting that personal action was the only thing required, or that it was a substitute for governmental and other collective action. The point of the Riot was to demonstrate that no matter what governments did or didn’t do, individuals, families and communities could still take action. We don’t have to wait for others to go first.

     I also don’t believe that the Riot is essentially libertarian, and you misrepresent it and myself when you call it individual and leave out the importance of family and community. Your analysis is useful for combatting libertarian arguments, but that’s not what I was making. Mine was more anarchistic perhaps (“we don’t need government’s permission to change” is entirely different than saying that “only individuals are responsible for change”).

     My own position is that because we don’t have government action (or even much political party action outside of the Greens), we have to mobilise at the individual, family and community levels. When we do that, governments and political parties will follow. Even the Greens are holding back on what needs ot be done because their very existence is dependent on votes. Once more people are demanding change and changing anyway, politicians will follow. This in no way precludes other kinds of political activism, we need it all.

     My post was addressing a point that’s needed, which is that people are feeling powerless. It’s time we got past that feeling and did something.

     “Hopefully in Pt 2: of his post, (if it ever turns up), Weka will set out what he thinks political parties and governments should do.”

     It’s unlikely that I will be writing about that at this point. I’ve already said enough in comments, and there are huge swathes of commentary within NZ and internationally and here on ts about what governments should do. My energy is better used elsewhere. I would love to see others putting up posts on this though.

     It does raise another point. We can talk about what governments should do, and we should have that conversation, but things are so urgent now that I want to also talk about what we can do, not what we should do. I can’t wait. We have to act, now.

     Weka argues that we exercise our choice as consumers to combat climate change.

     No, she doesn’t. She says we have to stop being consumers full stop. It’s a potent, radical act that undercuts neoliberalism, the global economy and capitalism itself. It also brings a halt to a big chunk of GHG emissions. Merely using consumer choice won’t prevent the worst of CC, although it’s still a step in the right direction. Cutting personal energy use by 90% is not consumer choice, it’s a radical rejection of the consumerist paradigm itself.

     The transition to the power down from a consumerist soceity is a massive cultural paradigm shift. That’s what I was referring to.

     In my opinion, this so called “choice”, can only be properly exercised by the wealthy or the upper middle classes, those with the leisure and the money that gives them the freedom to make such choices. There is very little choice for the time strapped and cash poor.

     Leaving aside the inaccurate framing, one of the commenters in the thread is probably one of the lowest income Standardistas and he is powering down (Bill). I personally don’t think that the major changes need to come first from the working and underclasses, but I also don’t believe they are incapable of change or that they are not required to change. In fact I’d say the working and under classes have skills in powering down and anti-consumerism that the middle classes will come to envy in the coming decades.

     We also simply cannot afford to wait for the left wing revolution that will first lift people out of poverty. That has to be done in the same context as everything else, CC is here, now. Why are we waiting to change. Someone who is poor is going to get hit just as hard when they are still relying on the global economy to bring food to their supermarket.

     I agree that low income and time poor people have less choice. But many still have some choices.
     • Jenny 5.2.1

       9 May 2016 at 10:13 pm

       “Hopefully in Pt 2: of his post, (if it ever turns up), Weka will set out what he thinks political parties and governments should do.”

       It’s unlikely that I will be writing about that at this point…..

       ….I would love to see others putting up posts on this though.

       Weka

       I might give it a go.
       • weka 5.2.1.1

         9 May 2016 at 10:24 pm

         Cool!!
         • Jenny 5.2.1.1.1

           10 May 2016 at 8:17 pm

           Thank you weka.

           I will need to put proper time and effort into this; to give the topic some justice.

           I lead a pretty busy life so that may take some rearranging and reprioritising.

           When my contribution appears

           My hope is that you and others will give my contribution a thoroughly rigorous critique.

           Cheers Jenny.
6. Pat 6

   8 May 2016 at 8:29 am

   whether we are talking about dodgy politicians, climate change action, inequitable taxation or unwanted tax haven status or so called free trade agreements there is one thing to remember……

   they only have the power we allow them…..so why do we abdicate that power

   https://yanisvaroufakis.eu/2016/05/03/13586/
   • whateva next? 6.1

     8 May 2016 at 10:54 am

     nation of sheep begets a government of wolves
     • Skinny 6.1.1

       8 May 2016 at 11:55 pm

       +1
       Nice, but tragic results.
7. Jenny Kirk 7

   8 May 2016 at 8:58 am

   Can’t we do both, Jenny @5 ?
   As well as individual actions like growing more trees, vegetable gardens to be more self-sustainable, etc etc there also seem to be a number of group movements starting to grow – ActionStation is one, and then there’s another newer group setting up – http://act.350.org/event/break-free-world_attend/12291

   This group 350 Aotearoa appear to be actively promoting the need for political action on Climate Change. I don’t know much about them – but they have some sort of event in Wellington on May 11, 2016. Have a look at this Facebook site – it’ll tell you more.

   https://www.facebook.com/events/159524387777137/

   Some details I’ve copied :
   Wednesday, May 11, 7:00 AM
   The corner of Panama Street and Lambton Quay
   Wellington, 6011, New Zealand

   EVENT BRIEFING
   10TH May, Wellington Girls College, Pipitea St 6.30pm
   • weka 7.1

     8 May 2016 at 2:55 pm

     +1 Nice one Jenny K.
   • Jenny 7.2

     8 May 2016 at 3:33 pm

     “Can’t we do both, Jenny @5 ?” JENNY KIRK

     Absolutely. I agree whole heartedly with this sentiment. Jenny.

     Like the Gardening For Victory movement, national leadership and encouragement played a vital role in making this movement a success.

     https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victory_garden

     https://www.google.co.nz/search?q=Gardening+for+victory&espv=2&biw=1001&bih=489&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjS56Tzu8nMAhXELKYKHe7jCGIQsAQIVQ&dpr=1

     The dance between leaders and followers in a democracy is a subtle one.

     Leadership initiatives from above are just as important as receptive support from below. One builds and strengthens the other. Without initiatives and leadership, individual action either falls apart, or doesn’t get started in the first place.

     Without receptive supporters, leadership goes nowhere.

     Though Weka didn’t explicitly advocate that individual activities is the only thing we should do. I can’t help thinking that his approach is letting the government and other policy makers somewhat off the hook. Maybe, Weka will challenge the politicians and policy makers in Pt 2: of his post, Let’s hope so.

     I look forward to reading it.

     P.S. Great to hear about your Break Free activities in Wellington. I have been close to the Break Free campaign here in Auckland. In Auckland 350.org are all young people full of life and fun, who organised a beach party occupation of the ANZ to call for divestment from fossil fuels,

     Older, more conservative (looking), supporters like myself were asked to play an undercover role for the beach party, by arriving early and posing as ANZ customers to deflect any criticism, or manhandling of the protesters.

     You can view the beach party occupation of the downtown Auckland ANZ lobby here:

     
     
     
8. maui 8

   8 May 2016 at 10:28 am

   The year is 1840 and Colonel Donald T Rash and David Business Roundtable disembark the Tory in a strange new land. They find the natives already have a complex capitalist system in place and everything is free to be exploited.

   https://youtu.be/r_AUYsiDyBU
   • b waghorn 8.1

     8 May 2016 at 2:53 pm

     Shit if Hone can sit next to that toxic old shit and listen to the drivel that plummy twat from chch was spouting and not hit some one he needs to be in Parliament, common mana get your shit together.
     • weka 8.1.1

       8 May 2016 at 3:03 pm

       +1000.
     • Reddelusion 8.1.2

       8 May 2016 at 3:58 pm

       Talking is always better than violence
   • adam 8.2

     8 May 2016 at 5:14 pm

     I hated watching that. Both Don Brash and David what’s his name were rude. Brash continued the rudeness right up till the end.

     It like if he acted like that on any other TV show, they would have gone to an add and asked him to leave.

     I’m glad Willie told him he’s never welcome back.
9. travellerev 9

   8 May 2016 at 10:53 am

   This is what happens in Germany when politicians try to screw the people!
10. One Two 10

    8 May 2016 at 11:19 am

    http://www.bmj.com/content/353/bmj.i2139

    Conservatively a minimum of 250,000 deaths per year in the USA

    The annual number of severe patient injuries resulting from medical error could conservatively be 10,000,000

    The CDC does not require reporting of medical errors
11. mary_a 11

    8 May 2016 at 2:56 pm

    Now I wonder what NatzKEY influenced msm serfs will do with the Panama papers data info release next week, prior to publication and reporting? Other than RNZ, there’s a good chance most msm sources will sanitize it to suit the likes of masters FJK and his chief of propaganda minister, Steven “the fixit guy” Joyce, to suit their rotten agendas!

    I take it those of us who subscribe to ICIJ should hopefully receive access to the data in its entirety in our inboxes early on Tuesday 10 May.
12. Paul 12

    8 May 2016 at 3:07 pm

    ‘First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.’
    ‘
13. mary_a 13

    8 May 2016 at 3:16 pm

    “Ken where are you? I need help here.

    “Ken, Ken ……???”

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/79745762/crack-ird-team-ready-to-join-global-panama-papers-search
14. Paul 14

    8 May 2016 at 3:30 pm

    Frankly, I don’t believe what the PM is saying.
    Bring on the 10th May.

    ‘Prime Minister John Key says the Government is ready to crack down on wealthy tax evaders as the Government braces itself for fresh Panama Papers disclosures.
    Speaking in Auckland on Sunday, Key said Inland Revenue officials would join the global stampede to ferret out tax evaders when millions of leaked “Panama Papers” go online on Tuesday.’

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/79745762/crack-ird-team-ready-to-join-global-panama-papers-search
    • dv 14.1

      8 May 2016 at 3:45 pm

      Here is the problem-
      The trusts are secret aren’t they.

      So how will they know?
    • Reddelusion 14.2

      8 May 2016 at 4:04 pm

      This getting more Crim dot com re the big damp squib reveal and day of judgement at the last ejection . what’s do we have here, NZ has forgein trusts, it had been the case for many years under labour and national governments , some ( not all) forgein trusts may be used for tax evasion of forgein tax jurisdictions, can some one tell me what’s new here and what was not know already
      • Tricledrown 14.2.1

        8 May 2016 at 4:20 pm

        You missed the point.now misleading the truth.corrupt Criminals that can’t launder their money anywhere else in the world are using NZ’s good name and destroying that under the leadership of Crony Capitalist 2011 changes to the law and the undermining of rule tighning the IRD was ready to put into place.
        Ken Whitney approached the PM a very close long time business associate his personal lawyer a dodgy dealing trust fund lawyer.
        Who within 48hrs of approaching the minister IRD dropped all plans to tighten rules around trusts.
        Nepotism
        Greasing
        Grifting
        Corruption.
        Bluelusion.
        • Reddelusion 14.2.1.1

          8 May 2016 at 5:06 pm

          All of what you pontificate above is opinion and left spin, not fact
          • adam 14.2.1.1.1

            8 May 2016 at 5:23 pm

            Oh please Reddelusion , you are the one in spin mode. All your, at present, fallow fan-boys.

            As more paper and more information come to light it is only going to get worse.

            Labour did it too. SHeesh, the argument of a two year old – this is a government that has been in power 7 odd years now, time to take responsibility for your own actions. Too soon?
            • Reddelusion 14.2.1.1.1.1

              8 May 2016 at 7:57 pm

              I’m still struggling with the issue here, forgein trusts are not illegal, as are not registered companies, partnerships or multiple forms of entities under English law There has been no tax evasion in nz, if papers show this is the case the law will deal with it, likewise if laws of forgein incorporation, forgein trusts etc need to be tidied up, all good, albeit and international response is required here . I am just not sure what you lot are getting so exercised about, English commercial has continued to evolve ever since the formation of the royal charters and joint stock companies in the 17 and 1800s , The flexibility and innovative capacity of English law is why it tends to be the favoured law of international business and continues to evolve today to support the constant evolution and needs of the commercial sector. You need to get out of your grumpy little leftie box and just chill out on this one
              • Paul …

                8 May 2016 at 7:59 pm

                Trillions of dollars in tax havens.
                And it means nothing to you.
                • Reddelusion …

                  8 May 2016 at 8:14 pm

                  Yes Paul it does and it needs and international response, as does global harmonisation of tax laws etc, trying to put all this on nz, Jk and the national party is where it’s getting ridiculous
              • adam …

                8 May 2016 at 8:11 pm

                I was wondering when that meme would come.

                No laws were broken, its just business as usual.

                That said, just because it’s legal is not a good defence. Being gay was illegal, and we changed that silly law. Women were legally not allowed to vote, and again we came to our scenes. Many many things have been legal which have become illegal and vice versa. It just a weak defence.

                There is no smoking gun. I think you just said what everyone is upset about.

                The problem is – its business as usual,

                and business as usual – is morally bankrupt.
                • Paul …

                  8 May 2016 at 8:15 pm

                  Red delusion is deluded.
                  • Reddelusion …

                    8 May 2016 at 8:27 pm

                    Clever play on words Paul, you out did yourself with that one
                • Reddelusion …

                  8 May 2016 at 8:25 pm

                  I am not claiming business as usual see my post below, there are good reason for trusts that make good business sense re separating management off assets from legal title, as does a mortgage etc, all useful tools and innovation under English law in fostering commerce etc. Deal with the issues of forgein trust if they are abused but don’t throw the baby out with the bath water Similar don’t try and turn a legal entity that has been with us since the 80s suddenly into, it’s all jk and Nationals fault , basically grow up and engage your brain and deal with the issue at at hand , likewise get over the fact that nz is not going to solve the global tax evasion issue. this can only be solved via a global response and even here is difficult as each nation has its own domestic laws, self interests etc yet all trade internationally, thus no easy answer
                  • adam …

                    8 May 2016 at 9:41 pm

                    I’m happy for us to engage.

                    What pissing me off, and others is the in action by JK and Co. Then the political games. Or people creating memes to avoid having to deal with the issue.

                    The fact is the law change after national came to power, is the door which all this debate started with. I get Dunn was the muppet who was the lead on that.

                    You say we need to wait on the rest of the world, but we probably not going to do anything then either. Key and co. have not got a good track record.
                    • Reddelusion …

                      8 May 2016 at 10:01 pm

                      If it helps there are a number of international institutions that nz is part of working on as such, in the mean time beyond legal harmonisation it just comes down to bi lateral tax treaties between countries, thus always issue between countries where such does not exist
      • Molly 14.2.2

        8 May 2016 at 6:03 pm

        National changed the tax on foreign trusts to “neutral” – 0%, in 2011. (Suggested by John Key himself, if IIRC). Chapman Tripp were delighted, and posted on this change. This made NZ very attractive to a larger number of very ugly trusts.

        While John Key equivocates lies, we waste time on pretending that it was always like this, and we continue to lose our integrity and our self-respect by a thousand such cuts.
        • Reddelusion 14.2.2.1

          8 May 2016 at 8:10 pm

          Zero tax is not the issue ( if no income is generated in nz, ie assets just parked here) , hiding behind the trust veil re who are the beneficiary of the trust is the issue in regard to paying tax elsewhere, tidy this up problem solved No big deal ! or corruption on nz part, so stop tearing your undies on this issue by some how extrapolating that some how foreign trust has connotations on nz reputation Any corruption is offshore by abusing nz trust laws
          • Tricledrown 14.2.2.1.1

            8 May 2016 at 8:29 pm

            The War on terror was supposed to shut down terrorist funding.
            Mossack Fonsecca are enabling terrorism and corruption to flourish.
            NATO countries and their Allies put sanctions on Putins Russia.
            MF enables Putin to undermine Sanction’s.
            Nigerian Scammers once they have taken your money it can’t be retrieved.
            Moassack Fonsecca hide these Nigerian scammers money.
            The Mexican grifter who banked US$100 million in our tax haven when no other tax haven would touch it.
            NZ govt allows Mossack Fonseca to set up here and in the protectetate of NZ Niue.
            So our Allies who have trying to shut down Isis ,Putin.
            The EU The US and Australia all trying to shut down tax dodgers.
            Are going to be very unimpressed by your argument.
            Bluelooney.
            • Reddelusion 14.2.2.1.1.1

              8 May 2016 at 8:40 pm

              I am not trying to Impress you just educate you, likewise the conflation and hyperbole is now getting silliy
          • Molly 14.2.2.1.2

            11 May 2016 at 12:00 pm

            “so stop tearing your undies on this issue”
            WTF?
      • Psycho Milt 14.2.3

        8 May 2016 at 9:02 pm

        NZ has forgein trusts, it had been the case for many years under labour and national governments , some ( not all) forgein trusts may be used for tax evasion of forgein tax jurisdictions, can some one tell me what’s new here and what was not know already

        Are you unable to read the newspaper for yourself or something? Here’s what’s new: the way NZ’s foreign trust rules were set up allows them to be used for tax avoidance and money laundering. People who aren’t Tories generally feel that we shouldn’t enable tax avoidance and money laundering. IRD warned the government about the problem with our foreign trust setup, and attempted to get it reviewed, something which appears to have been prevented by John Key intervening at the behest of his lawyer, one of the people profiting from said foreign trusts. Now, with the release of the Panama papers, the whole thing is blown wide open and NZ stands revealed as an enabler of tax avoidance and money laundering. This is not a bad thing nor a big deal how, exactly?
        • Reddelusion 14.2.3.1

          8 May 2016 at 9:38 pm

          Opinion and speculation in regard to intent of government and action of ministers, not fact but that obviously does not matter here
15. ianmac 15

    8 May 2016 at 4:32 pm

    The wicked David Slack has a report on the Key online interview. David explains just how clever Key is with his answers.
    eg:”It’s not just what he says, it’s how he says it. If Auckland had three volcanic cones erupting, he’d talk about it as though it was just another day in heavy traffic and you know, people get volcanoes all the time.”
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/79681871/David-Slack-The-man-with-all-the-answers?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
16. ianmac 16

    8 May 2016 at 5:33 pm

    Anyone discussed this today?
    “”As it stands, we cannot support the ratification of the Trans Pacific Partnership Agreement,” the Labour Party said….
    ..Labour leader Andrew Little said the trade minister was right to point out Labour’s long history of supporting free trade agreements.

    “It goes back to the first Labour Government, and our support for free trade hasn’t changed. But what we won’t support is the erosion of New Zealanders’ democratic rights and to have a sovereign government. That’s what the National Government is selling out.”
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11635635
    • Paul 16.1

      8 May 2016 at 5:35 pm

      Yes ..put it on TPP thread. Here…
      http://thestandard.org.nz/will-labour-endorse-the-tppa/#comment-1170124
      • ianmac 16.1.1

        8 May 2016 at 7:25 pm

        Ooops. Thanks Paul.
17. joe90 17

    8 May 2016 at 8:26 pm

    Over the past fifteen years the IDF has killed more than 5,500 Palestinians with impunity and fas**st Bayit Yehudi MK Bezalel Smotrich calls for revenge attacks.
    /

    The government can prevent Jewish attacks on Arabs by taking “legitimate” revenge for Palestinian terrorism, MK Bezalel Smotrich (Bayit Yehudi) wrote in a Facebook post on Friday.

    “Presumably, if the State of Israel had not been influenced by twisted Christian morals and had not erased the word ‘revenge’ from its lexicon, and would have done it [revenge] in legitimate ways and deterred the enemy, we would not have encountered these difficult cases of private people taking the law and the revenge into their own hands,” he said.

    http://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/Israel-should-carry-out-revenge-attacks-on-Palestinians-rightist-MK-says-453340
    • Paul 17.1

      8 May 2016 at 8:29 pm

      Be careful. You’re criticising Israel’s policies in Gaza and the West Bank.
      Someone will say you’re antiaemitic.
      • greywarshark 17.1.1

        8 May 2016 at 9:04 pm

        Or antiemetic or anaemic, something – there will be criticism of criticism. The human mind must go for scapegoats – now its Christians. Have we stopped them having revenge?
        What do they call what has been rained on Palestine? It’s not tit for tat, eye for eye, its rat-tat-tat for tat. It has gone beyond defensive maneouvres against a vast hostile Arab enemy.
18. ianmac 18

    8 May 2016 at 8:51 pm

    On TV1 they said that the Panama Papers publication will be on TV 1 morning show Breakfast? tomorrow morning Monday.
19. greywarshark 19

    8 May 2016 at 9:34 pm

    This is an interesting site with much joined=up thinking.
    http://turbulence.org.uk/turbulence-1/commonism/

    And it’s on commonism, not communism. Loss of commons is a continuing theme these days so they have something very apposite to say.
20. Pat 20

    8 May 2016 at 9:44 pm

    “There is no doubt that volumes of oil – and, particularly, lower-carbon gas – will be needed well into the 2030s. The global transport system is still heavily dependent on black gold and full electrification is a long way off.

    But change is happening quickly too. The sale of electric cars in Norway last year grew by 71%. Almost one in five cars there is a plug-in despite the nation being a major crude producer.

    So the end of the oil era is not for the birds – or even the birdwatchers, the environmentalists, or the anti-oil obsessives. It is now becoming part of fund-manager and mainstream dialogue. Change is coming.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/may/08/brexit-not-to-blame-slowing-uk-growth-us-slowdown
21. Jenny 21

    9 May 2016 at 3:12 am

    Faith based pseudo science and the Prime Minister.

    Pseudo science is something you believe in for no reason, based on zero evidence, but call it science.

    “The world is going to heat up if it’s left unchecked,” he said. “People who get up and say ‘it’s Armageddon, it’s the end of the universe, it’s the worst thing that’s ever happened in the world, we will all die as a result of it,’ are missing one fundamental point and that is science will deal with the issues as long as we keep investing. If we did absolutely nothing and just allowed temperatures to continue to rise, then we would have a huge issue but the truth is that won’t happen.” JOHN KEY

    http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/farmers-must-combat-climate-change-more-science-innovation-investment-%E2%80%93-key-b-186586

    Does John Key know something about dealing with this global crisis that the scientific community doesn’t?

    Or, is he just indulging in wishful thinking?

    Climate change is the government’s worst performing portfolio.

    And John Key’s wishful thinking can’t cover up that fact.

    There is no magic bullet. We need to cut our emissions and we need to cut them fast.

    And New Zealand is better placed than most to set the pace.

    No New Coal Mines.

    No deep sea oil drilling.

    No Fracking.

    No new motorways,

    Switch the $11 billion earmarked for Roads of National Significance to public transport

    Close down Solid Energy

    Close down Huntly

    Close down Tiwai

    100% Renewable electricity now

    Cut the top speed limit from 100KPH to 80KPH (Don’t tell me it can’t be done, this was a fuel saving measure adopted by NZ during the energy crisis of the ’70s)

    The emergency is upon us

    We need to do these things right now.

    Anything less from our leaders is cowardice and treachery and an abrogation of leadership in the face of the crisis.

    Waiting on some magical scientific solution will damn us all.
    • Jenny 21.1

      9 May 2016 at 8:35 pm

      In no way do I compare John Key to the Nazis, but they also believed without any basis in fact, that science was going to deliver them from disaster.

      The Wunderwaffe

      As the war situation worsened for Germany from 1942, claims about the development of revolutionary new weapons which could turn the tide became an increasingly prominent part of the propaganda directed at Germans by their government.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wunderwaffe

      The Jonkywaffe

      As the climate situation worsened, claims about the development of revolutionary new scientific breakthroughs which could turn the tide became an increasingly prominent part of the propaganda directed at New Zealanders by their government.

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