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Open Mike 08/10/2016

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, October 8th, 2016 - 108 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

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Step up to the mike …

108 comments on “Open Mike 08/10/2016 ”

  1. Ad 1

    Huge shoutout to all leftie candidates today. A great moment for you and your team.

  2. Andre 2

    Ever wondered why rabid Hillary-hatred is such a thing? Here’s a relatively concise backgrounder.


    Two historically unpopular candidates? Maybe, but there’s still no real equivalence.


    Put these two articles together and it’s a good lesson on the effects of sustained dirty politics and polishing turds.

  3. The Chairman 3

    “There will be a nervous King Country community as they wake up this morning.”

  4. save nz 6

    Welcome to our Little America, where homelessness goes hand in hand with 6 million riffle ranges that do not need a resource consent next to a mediation retreat.

    Thanks Auckland planning! sarc.


    • chris73 6.1

      What do you have against a sports club that promotes safe handling of firearms? Also it takes 5 pages to get to the shooting club (if you google Tuhirangi) so maybe a bit of sensationalism going on plus the range design:


      looks pretty good to me so this is nothing more then nimbyism mixed in with guns = evil and an attempt to get the naive and ignorant worked up over nothing

      It looks like quite a good facility so hopefully it works out well for them

      and heres the directions on google maps


      • save nz 6.1.1

        NIMBY the new right wing word to describe zero planning regulation and the ad hoc development making Auckland the stupidest unliveable little big city.

        Great to see no resource consent needed – council just takes the word of the developer. Oh well, we are in post truth era, we just take the gun clubs word for it.

        Similar consenting wiped out a golf club when a speedway/motocross site went up next door. While the riders wear helmets to drown out the noise, obviously changes the neighouring club if they all need to wear sound helmets too while playing golf.

        Poor planning decisions actually go against economic development, when people become reluctant to develop a business or venture when, the council can just destroy it by allowing something noisy and potentially more dangerous and at odds with existing developments no questions or conditions imposed.

        • chris73

          Go use google and find out how many incidents happen at shooting clubs in NZ (I’ll send you a chocolate fish if you find one)

          They got the cert of compliance for a reason and I doubt its because they rocked on up to the council and threatened the staff with a gun

          • save nz

            By the way Chris73 it’s when they leave the gun club that the incidents happen…

            • chris73

              Well that makes sense doesn’t it, lets oppose a rifle range because accidents happen outside rifle ranges and away from their control

      • Draco T Bastard 6.1.2

        But residents adjacent to the club are upset they only found out about the plans by accident.

        I happen think that that is a pretty big deal.

        People do not have the right to affect others without their permission.

    • Colonial Viper 6.2

      If the range had been a couple of extra hundred metres from the retreat centre that would have been ideal.

      As it is, the meditators will simply have to work harder at what they do. But they should get agreement from the gun club that there will be no firearms use before 9am if there are meditation courses on.

      • chris73 6.2.1

        Are you suggesting they actually talk to each other, why thats just crazy enough to work!

        • save nz

          Well clearly the gun club ‘did not get around to it’ with the talk phase….

          • Draco T Bastard

            Yeah, I noticed that as well. The gun clubs we always meant to talk to the neighbours but never got around to it tells me that they never intended to talk to the neighbours until after they’d started operations and probably not even then.

      • save nz 6.2.2

        Exactly CV, where are the conditions? Where is the enforcement if they do not meet their conditions? The gun club already say they will not eliminate the noise. There should be someone who does noise readings from the boundary to make sure that the noise is not excessive, because very often the effects are far more than they say it is on their application or effects are buried or ignored. (Ancient Kauri become high vegetation). Also note that the 650m are NOT from the boundaries of neighbours but from the centre of the property.

        There are plenty of noisy hobbies, the trick is to put them all together so that they all are ok with it or in an area with existing noise such as off a busy motorway in an industrial area such as Albany.

        Putting a gun club next to a mediation retreat in a quiet semi rural community without any conditions does not seem fair to me. And if anyone was going to start a B&B or what have you, clearly you would not go ahead as tourists don’t really come to NZ to stay near gun noise. Again cancels out both amenity and future economic activity for the community. There is also more traffic, etc etc.

        As for the Gun club, lets face it, do we need more guns or more mediation in NZ?

        Are we really a clean, green 100% pure country or is this just marketing, and the old image being actively destroyed by strange planning decisions?

        • chris73

          You forgot this:

          You can meditate anywhere you like but you can’t use a firearm anywhere you like

          “We were told the land was zoned rural and a range is permitted and supported by the Unitary Plan.”

          Yep big surprise there, firearms are used in rural areas


          “I approached the council asking where an appropriate piece of land with the right zoning would be. Acoustic testing has been carried out and we’re below the threshold.

          “A bird call from 10 metres away is 60 decibels, while our readings were 48 and lower.”

          I don’t know if thats right but if they approached the council first then what more could they do?

          “According to Auckland Council’s manager of northern resource consenting, Ian Dobson, outdoor firing ranges for pistols in rural areas are classified as recreational. This means only a certificate of compliance is required, instead of resource consent.”

          “The council has accepted an acoustic assessment confirming the small 12 range plan would comply with the district plan noise rules. Resource consents would be needed for parts of the bigger plan.”

          • Colonial Viper

            “A bird call from 10 metres away is 60 decibels, while our readings were 48 and lower.”

            48 dB isn’t the end of the world, as long as during meditation retreats the range operators display a bit of flexibility around shooting start times.

            • save nz

              Yep but who is checking it is 48 decibels – the gun club and that’s one test. How about when they get into full operation. That’s my point. Plus the traffic and how many clients coming to use it, etc etc.

              Remember the Ports of Auckland were allowed to claim 1 km of harbour according to the council and Ports of Auckland without a consent. But that did not turn out to be the case.

              With a rifle range, it is one thing to just do it in the country recreationally, another to have a commercial operation with people coming from around Auckland to shoot there.

              • chris73

                “Yep but who is checking it is 48 decibels – the gun club and that’s one test. How about when they get into full operation. That’s my point. Plus the traffic and how many clients coming to use it, etc etc.”

                Your point is invalid:

                “The council has accepted an acoustic assessment confirming the small 12 range plan would comply with the district plan noise rules. Resource consents would be needed for parts of the bigger plan.”

                Get over it, they obtained all the consent they need to start and if they need more they’ll need to apply for it

                • Colonial Viper

                  Being good, good neighbours requires more than just getting council consents.

                  • chris73

                    And something shouldn’t be stopped because of the ill-informed prejudices of a few people

          • Draco T Bastard

            I don’t know if thats right but if they approached the council first then what more could they do?

            Ask the neighbours?

            And something shouldn’t be stopped because of the ill-informed prejudices of a few people

            But it should be if those people don’t want to be affected by the commercial operation.

  5. save nz 7

    Freedom of speech on the way out…

    Jewish man arrested after criticizing Israel and U.S. at Kansas library’s pro-Israel event


    • Cinny 7.1

      He asked the wrong question…

      Issues arose after Ross finished speaking and took a question from Jeremy Rothe-Kushel concerning whether Jewish Americans like Rothe-Kushel should be concerned about actions by the U.S. and Israel that amount to “state-sponsored terrorism.”

      “When are we going to stand up and be ethical Jews and Americans?” Rothe-Kushel asked.

      There are many Jews in Israel that feel the same as Roth-Kushel, but over there they like to assault and/or jail those whom ask questions like that in a public arena. It’s horrid for them. As a result they just end up switching off from politics, it’s safer than ones whole family being persecuted or labelled as sympathizers and placed on a database.

      There are laws over there… it sucks for those whom care about people more than power.


    • Draco T Bastard 7.2

      Kansas City police spokeswoman Capt. Stacey Graves said off-duty officers hired by the event sponsor acted properly in helping private security stop an audience member from asking follow-up questions.

      No, actually, they didn’t. They actually unprofessionally and unethically.

      Rothe-Kushel is charged in city court with trespassing and resisting arrest.

      So, he was at a public event at a public space and he was trespassing?
      Was it made clear to him that he was being arrested?

  6. save nz 8

    The real problem with Donald Trump’s tax avoidance? It’s perfectly legal


  7. Chooky 9

    Why the USA is at war against Syria, a country that does not threaten it, and the democratically elected leader Assad, who is a bulwark against ISIS…brave Americans speak out , including one CIA analyst

    ‘Dangerous escalation’


    “The downward spiral continues with no end in sight. A dangerous escalation in tensions separating Russia and the West can be witnessed in a decline in diplomatic engagement, particularly concerning Syria.”

    CrossTalking with Ray McGovern, Earl Rasmussen, and Vladimir Golstein.

    • Colonial Viper 9.1

      Zero Hedge says that US has officially labelled Russia as the hackers who got inside the DNC and other political databases.

      The US has also previously said that it will treat acts of cyberwarfare in the same category as other acts of war.

  8. RTM 10

    Our second longest serving PM was a fanatical member of a white supremacist, pyramids-obsessed cult. So why’s avid Farrar so keen to defend him?

  9. practice you dim otherwise it will be boring oh and stop the lies

    “On Thursday, in a rare effort to prepare for Sunday’s town hall debate against Clinton, Trump conducted a public rehearsal in front of a live crowd in Sandown, New Hampshire. It did not go well.

    “They were saying this is practice for Sunday. This isn’t practice,” Trump told the crowd, as he stood in front of a countdown clock that ticked off the two minutes that he was given to respond to pre-written questions from conservative radio host Howie Carr, a prominent Trump supporter. “We’re just here because we wanted to be here,” he added, as Chris Christie, his purported debate coach, watched anxiously from the side.”


    pre-written questions omg

    • Colonial Viper 11.1

      pre-written questions omg

      At this town hall meeting did Trump use any minors with rehearsed questions to further his political agenda, like Hillary did?


      As to how the New Hampshire Town Hall event went – you decide


      • marty mars 11.1.1

        He couldn’t even get it with pre-written questions, in advance, with time to prepare answers and answer within the self imposed time limits to simulate the next debate – and somehow that is a big win for you – yeah nah

        • Colonial Viper

          No child actors with rehearsed questions then?

          • marty mars

            no not that I’m aware of just pre-written questions, in advance, with time to prepare answers and answer within the self imposed time limits to simulate the next debate – he couldn’t do that so god knows he couldn’t handle child actors if any of them even wanted to be associated with him. Remember even the bald eagle thought he was a wanker and attacked him. Bubby he couldn’t even answer his childhood memory patsy question – absolute failure.

          • One Anonymous Bloke

            Hillary Clinton is inauthentic! That’s the first time you’ve actually made something stick. At first I was inclined to dismiss it out-of-hand on account of your sad track record, but then I realised you’d got a hit!

            Now, about these sexual assaults…

    • joe90 11.2

      Trump was reduced to taking questions from his own staff.

      Unlike a typical town hall, where voters pepper a candidate with questions, attendees had to write out questions on note cards and submit them to the campaign ahead of time.

      The questions were then read aloud by the moderator – conservative radio host Howie Carr – who sat with Trump at the front of the room, separated from the crowd by a red, velvet rope line. Questions ranged from what Trump would do for veterans – asked by campaign adviser state Rep. Al Baldasaro –


      (Baldasaro is the loose unit who called for Clinton to be put in front of a firing quad.)

      • marty mars 11.2.1

        “The Republican nominee proceeded to act in no way as if he attempting to prepare for this Sunday’s town-hall debate, so technically, he was not lying. He routinely blew past the supposed two-minute limit with his responses to questions such as, “What is your favorite childhood memory?””


        such a hard question that one – ummm riding in my first rolls royce or was it when billy the butler slipped and fell over – pretty sure it was terrific whatever it was.

  10. Disgusting school – no wonder kids get traumatised.

    “Revelations a primary school was locking misbehaving children in a cell-like “time out” room has prompted the Children’s Commissioner to look into whether such practices are systemic.

    Miramar Primary School in Wellington was investigated by the Ministry of Education after an 11-year-old disabled boy was discovered locked in a room the size of a cupboard in July, distraught and alone.

    The investigation found the child, who is autistic and has the intellectual age of a toddler, had been placed in the room 13 times in nine days for behaviour including grabbing people.

    He was heard yelling from the room “I’ll be good I’ll be good” by his behaviour therapist, who said the event will have lasting psychological effect.”


    Some people should be gone for this abuse.

  11. rhinocrates 13

    Sow the wild wind, reap the whirlwind. The militias never went away and are growing again.

    Inside America’s Militias
    Podcast — all the domestic extremism we’re not talking about

    Domestic terrorism didn’t start or end with Timothy McVeigh…

    This week on War College, domestic extremism expert J.J. MacNab walks us through the current state of America’s militia and domestic terror movements.


    • rhinocrates 13.1

      …about 25 minutes in on their political allegiances. Not surprisingly, they’re solidly behind Orange Jesus.

      …about 33 in: “the political horseshoe…the fringe at either end have more in common than the mainstream.”

      • Sacha 13.1.1

        short distance from far left to far right, yes.
        like old socialist Labour birthing Act neolibs.

  12. Morrissey 14

    As Diane Robertson and Paul Casserly seethed in enforced silence,
    David Cumin’s farrago of lies went unchecked yesterday

    The Panel, RNZ National, Friday 7 October 2016, 4:20 p.m.
    Jesse Mulligan, Paul Casserly, Diane Robertson, Megan Whelan

    Anyone who listened to the light chat show The Panel on Thursday would have come in for a pleasant surprise. Instead of Jim “Lord Haw Haw Haw” Mora or his dismally ill-prepared regular substitute Jesse “Mmmm, mmmm” Mulligan, there were three intelligent and serious people in the studio: Jon Bridges, Golnaz Bassam-Tabar, and Ellen Read. This was a stroke of good fortune, given that the big story of the day was the outlaw Israeli regime’s interception, in international waters, of the ship Zaytouna-Oliva, which was full of gravely menacing peace activists, including Nobel Peace Prize laureate Mairead Corrigan and a New Zealand member of parliament. Usually on such an occasion, the guests happen to be of the calibre of Neil Miller or Mark Inglis or Chris Wikaira or John Barnett: people who are either ideologically committed to the Holy State or so intellectually incurious that they have nothing useful to say on the matter.

    Thursday’s Panel, though, was different. When they were asked to comment on the kidnapping, there was none of the normal mealy-mouthed obfuscation, or the verbal flannel (“it’s a very COMPLEX situation”) or the callous and unfunny jokes that usually make listening to this program such a dispiriting experience. Golnaz Bassam-Tabar in particular spoke candidly of how the people of the Gaza enclave have been been suffering from an “illegal siege, for nearly ten years now, that has crippled Gaza, that has blocked aid supplies, has blocked food supplies, construction supplies, medical supplies.” Ellen Read, though clearly not as well informed on the matter as Golnaz, made some earnest comments, as did host Jon Bridges.

    Sadly, however, this oasis of decency was not destined to last for long. Yesterday Jesse Mulligan was back in the hosting chair, and it was transmission pretty much as normal. Also listening to Golnaz Bassam-Tabar’s revolutionary act of speaking truthfully on RNZ National had been one David Cumin, of the right wing New Zealand Jewish Council. No doubt he and several other angry pro-Israel activists lost no time in putting their views across to RNZ receptionists, producers, hosts and, of course, of Radio New Zealand chairman (and erstwhile Panel guest) Richard Griffin. As a result, David Cumin was extended an uncontested “right of reply”, with the Panel guests obviously instructed not to utter a single word, and the host not permitted to do anything other than read out the questions. David Cumin was thus free to heap ridicule on Marama Davidson, to distort, and tell outright lies, without fear of contradiction….

    JESSE MULLIGAN: Now yesterday on The Panel, Jon Bridges and the Panelists discussed the detention in Israel of Green Party M.P. Marama Davidson, who was on a protest ship attempting to reach GAZA. As you may have heard, Marama Davidson has now been RELEASED from a prison in central Israel and is flying back to New Zealand and is expected to arrive tomorrow morning. The Gaza situation is a very COMPLEX one, as you’ll probably KNOW [nervous snicker], and it causes a great DEAL of DEBATE. And yesterday one of our Panelists referred to the Palestinians as being under an illegal SIEGE. David Cumin from the New Zealand Jewish Council is with us now, and David, welcome to the SHOW, and in your, ahhhh, view, IS it an illegal siege?

    DAVID CUMIN: Hi-i-i, Jesse, thanks for having me on. Ahhhh, no-o-o, um, the choice of WORDS that have been used, ahhhhh, just like Marama describing herself as being KIDNAPPED, uh, or held hostage, ahh, are really designed to proVOKE more than anything, um, and I think, it’s not only my view but it’s, um, the view of more, ummm, senior people than me that the blockade is LEGAL. In fact, new Zealand’s own, ahhh, Sir Geoffrey Palmer led a report to the U.N. that found not only is the maritime blockade LEGAL, ahh, but it was—and these are HIS words—“a legitimate security measure in order to prevent weapons from entering Gaza by sea.” Uh, so-o-o-o it’s not just my view, the blockade IS legal, and I think that it’s a really important point, ah, that everyone should understand, uh, as opposed, as to the word “siege”, ah, I don’t think it’s accurate to describe the movement of fifteen thousand PEOPLE each MONTH, and two thousand truckloads of food per WEEK as a siege. Ahh, those are the numbers that travel between Israel and Gaza. Ah, so-o-o, y’ow I just think they’re the wrong words that were being used.

    JESSE MULLIGAN: Okay, it was also claimed yesterday that Gaza is an open-air mass prison of suffering under the guise of security for Israel, and we do know conditions there can be pretty grim. There’s a sea and air blockade, and high unemployment, but what’s your perspective on that?

    DAVID CUMIN: Sure. So, er, uh, aGAIN, I think that it’s important to note that the, um, the U.N. has found that the blockade is LEGAL, and it’s a legitimate security MEASURE, to keep Israelis SAFE, basically. Um, and so I think when you say there’s a “guise” of security, it belies the fact that there are being rockets that are fired into Israel, there are TUNNELS that are being built, ahhhhm, to, to, um, commit terror attacks. Ahhh, and so withOUT, errr, border security and the maritime blockade, ahh, the Israeli people would be in grave DANGER. Errrr, Hamas has a, a charter that calls for the destruction of Israel. Um, and I think that the important point in the Palmer report was that that charter was being ENACTED by thousands of rockets being fired on Israeli citizens. So, errr, there’s no “guise of security” here, it’s a reality, and it’s a reality that hasn’t STOPPED. Ahh, on the morning that the, the boat Marama was on was intercepted, there was a rocket that was fired and landed in a city in Israel. So-o-o, uh, y’know, we need to keep that in mind I think that there’s a RE-E-EAL security THREAT here that, um, is making the, the situation COMPLEX.

    JESSE MULLIGAN: Mara D-, er, Marama Davidson is on her way home now, what are YOUR thoughts to travel as part of the protest flotilla?

    DAVID CUMIN: [snickers sardonically]Heh heh. Huh! To be honest, I’m really disappointed that a New Zealand politician would so-o-o, ahhh, UNASHAMEDLY decide to-o-o VIOLATE international law, uh, a-and, uh, violate another country’s sovereignty, just for the sake of some media attention. Ahhhh, it, it’s also come to light that the people that she’s associated herself with, ahhh, are really NOT promoters of PEACE, um, there’s one who created a video game to shoot Israelis. Ahhh, a couple of the women on, on the boat that she’s with blamed Israel for the nine eleven attacks and the more recent terror attacks in Nice and Munich. Um, we know that Kia Ora Gaza, the group that helped Marama from New Zealand, has voiced support for violence against Israelis, and the destruction of the Jewish state, so, you know, it’s really sad that these are the sort of values that Marama is, is showing, and I don’t think that they reflect the New Zealand public.

    JESSE MULLIGAN: Give us your perspective on the best way to DEAL with this blockade. It’s clearly not ideal for the people of Gaza, what would you see happen?

    DAVID CUMIN: Ahhhh, it’s not ideal for the people of Gaza, I don’t think it’s ideal for the people of ISRAEL either. Um, so we’ve got to remember that in two thousand and FIVE, Israel unilaterally withDREW from the Strip, um, and at that TIME there was, y’know, access for people to freely travel and, and Israelis enjoyed the BEACH and the people of Gaza enjoyed, um, working in Israel and traveling across. Ahhhh, unfortunately Hamas took over, ahh, control and with the increase in rocket attacks, uh, Israel had to PROTECT itself. So, um, errrrr, there’s still, as I said, fifteen thousand people each month and two thousand truckloads a week that get through, so it’s NOT a siege by ANY means, and it’s, it’s not a prison by ANY means, but look, I think the SOLUTION, Jesse, that you’re asking is, is really quite straightforward: WHEN THERE CEASES TO BE A SECURITY THREAT, THERE WILL CEASE TO BE THE NEED FOR A BLOCKADE. So as soon as, as the rockets stop firing, the tunnels stop being built, and the threat to Israeli lives is STOPPED, there will be a solution.

    JESSE MULLIGAN: All right, Doctor David Cumin from the New Zealand Jewish Council, thanks so much for your time today.

    DAVID CUMIN: Thank you, I appreciate it.


    Those readers interested in informing themselves about the situation in Gaza, and the outrage that is the Palmer-Uribe “Report” should listen to someone who, unlike the crude propagandist in the above exchange, actually knows something about Gaza, and speaks about it plainly…..

  13. Muttonbird 15

    Does the obsession with the American election by some authors on this site point to their disinterest about important New Zealand matters?

    Are these authors political tragics first and socially responsible second?

    It certainly seems that way to me.

    Just saying that if you have the major players at the standard more concerned with US politics, Syria, and getting Andrew Little to apologise for the 4th Labour government, than actual NZ communities then I’d say there’s a problem.

    • Paul 15.1

      TRP posted that to wind CV up I sense.
      And yes, important stuff to discuss in this country.
      Syria spiraling into WW3 should concern us .

      • Colonial Viper 15.1.1

        If Hillary Clinton and her team of corporate warmongering neocons gets in, US forces and Russian forces will be firing at each other within 12 months.

        Whether it is a strictly limited one-off “incident” between two minor military units or it escalates into a full scale in-theatre battles I don’t know, but it will happen.

        And it could be in Ukraine, it could be in Syria, or it could be somewhere else altogether.

        • Paul

          I reckon less than 12 months.

          • Colonial Viper

            Could be less than 12 months, but the neocons would still need to get all the problem officials out of the way or on side eg. Chair of the Joint Chiefs Dunford.

              • Colonial Viper

                I think climate change is going to severely fuck things in the next 15-ish years, but one thing which will fuck things even faster than that is a limited nuclear exchange.

                Remembering that a typical modern nuclear warhead is between 5x and 50x more powerful than the ones used on Nagasaki and Hiroshima.

                • Paul

                  Are there neocons out there who think nuclear war is winnable?

                  • Colonial Viper

                    With a combination of cyberwarfare disrupting Russia’s command and control, ABM systems shooting down anything Russia does try to launch and decapitation strikes taking out Putin and Putin’s inner circle, yes I think that there are scenarios being detailed and gamed out.

                    Also some neocons are convinced that Russia would never commit to an actual nuclear war so the US would win a limited nuclear confrontation almost by default.

                    • Paul


                    • Colonial Viper

                      Do you read The Saker’s website, Paul?

                    • TheExtremist

                      Jesus man, all you’ve done is switched from Western propaganda to Russian propaganda. It’s still bullshit, just from another country.

                      But still bullshit.

                    • Paul

                      No. Is it good?

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Paul I suspect that you may be in for a treat. The Saker has created a website format and system which is really quite unique.

                      He aggregates a lot of material and writes a lot of material (he is a former civilian European military analyst).

                      Check this out:


                      And also one of his regular interviews on the well known US based Solari Report:


                    • Colonial Viper

                      Jesus man, all you’ve done is switched from Western propaganda to Russian propaganda. It’s still bullshit, just from another country.

                      Huh? The Saker is an experienced civilian military analyst. Yes, he writes from a different perspective than what you get from the corporate MSM. But his rationales and analysis is generally very solid. It is also way more thoughtful than your average MSM piece on anything to do with Syria, Ukraine or Russian/US relations.

                    • TheExtremist

                      “The Saker is an experienced civilian military analyst. Yes, he writes from a different perspective than what you get from the corporate MSM. But his rationales and analysis is generally very solid. ”

                      So fucking what? If I posted the exact same comment yet replaced The Saker with a Fox News contributor you’d call BS and rightly so. You’re just replacing one propagandist for another. Still fucking bullshit.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Why developments in Syria reveal an Obama Administration in confused agony

                      By the Saker

                      Of course, the fact that the Americans are acting like clueless frustrated children does not mean that Russia will reciprocate in kind.

                      We have already seen Lavrov go back and further negotiate with Kerry. Not because the Russians are naive, but precisely because, unlike their US colleagues, the Russians are professionals who know that negotiations and open lines of communications are always, and by definition, preferable to a walk-away, especially when dealing with a superpower.

                      Those observers who criticize Russia for being “weak” or “naive” simply project their own, mostly American, “reaction set” on the Russians and fail to realize the simply truth that Russians are not Americans, they think differently and they act differently.

                      For one thing, the Russians don’t care if they are perceived as “weak” or “naive”. In fact, they would prefer to be perceived as such if that furthers their goals and confuses the opponent about their real intentions and capabilities. The Russians know that they did not build the biggest country on the planet by being “weak” or “naive” and they won’t be take lessons from a country which is younger that many Russian buildings.

                      The western paradigm is usually like this: a crises leads to a breakdown in negotiations and conflict follows. The Russian paradigm is completely different: a crisis leads to negotiations which are conducted up the the last second before a conflict erupts. There are two reasons for that: first, continuing to negotiate up to the last second makes it possible to seek a way out of the confrontation up to the last second and, second, negotiations up to the last second make it possible to come as close as possible to achieving strategic surprise for an attack.

                      This is exactly how Russia acted in Crimea and in Syria – with absolutely no warning signs or, even less so, a well-publicized display of power to attempt to intimidate somebody (intimidation is also a western political strategy the Russians don’t use).

                      So Lavrov will continue to negotiate, no matter how ridiculous and useless such negotiations will appear. And Lavrov himself will probably never officially utter the word “недоговороспособны”, but the message to the Russian people and to the Syrian, Iranian and Chinese allies of Russia will be that at this point Russia has lost any hope of dealing with the current US Administration.


      • Muttonbird 15.1.2

        I couldn’t give two fucks about the US election. Seems like a proliferation of the cult of celebrity to me. Not interested.

        Posters like CV and TRP are buying into this cult and as such are buying into John Key’s americanisation of New Zealand.

        • Paul

          Yet we should concern ourselves about the Ukraine and Syria.

          • Muttonbird

            Yeah right, Syria and Ukraine is serious but Israel has been that way for decades. Nothing done about it.

            These are distractions. The real problem for New Zealand is the current small and unaccountable government.

            • Paul

              Ukraine and Syria are not distractions.
              It’s serious stuff.
              Listen to Pilger.
              I would recommend you spend 15 minutes doing that.

        • Colonial Viper

          I couldn’t give two fucks about the US election. Seems like a proliferation of the cult of celebrity to me. Not interested.

          Maybe you think Goff winning the Auckland Mayoralty is a more worthwhile discussion? Or who is going to be the next MP of Mt Roskill? Or perhaps what will Chloe Swarbrick do next in NZ politics?

          But really, those are all things that I am not only not interested in but I would say that a clear majority of Aucklanders also have zero interest in – apart from the fish and chip paper of the day.

          • Muttonbird

            You are part of the problem then. Fuck you.

          • Paul

            I think our terrible levels of inequality is a worthwhile discussion.
            I think the housing crisis is a worthwhile discussion.
            I think the loss of our sovereignty through the TPP is a worthwhile discussion.

            And I also think Syria and Ukraine make for a worthwhile discussion.

            Joining the dots between each is the most worthwhile discussion.

            It has a name.

    • Incognito 15.2


      The same thought has crossed my mind more than once but I’ve come to the conclusion that TS really is a broad church. In addition, nobody’s post/comment is better/worse than any other – there are exceptions that prove the rule. So, live and let live 😉

      • Muttonbird 15.2.1

        Broad church is fine but we have two ‘authors’ with their extra powers writing very US centric shite day after day while sitting in their cold Dunedin flats.

        • Incognito

          I’ve become really good at fast, precise & accurate scrolling up & down recently. I had already lots of experience in blocking out & ignoring adds and click-bait on sites such as the NZ Herald but my hand-eye coordination has jumped to a new level since the US presidential elections went into full spring.

          It doesn’t bother me much nor do I care about their ‘power’ or whether they take up a lot of TS bandwidth. There is lots of stuff here on TS that makes me coming back and also contribute; some days are better than others but that’s life.

          • Muttonbird

            You have done well to block out the Trump shit because those two cock-wavers talk of nothing else.

            [you’re straying into attacking authors there Muttonbird, as well as telling them what to write, both of which are against the site Policy. Please tone it down a bit – weka]

        • Colonial Viper

          writing very US centric shite day after day while sitting in their cold Dunedin flats.

          Is this like being a Bernie supporter living in their parent’s basement?

    • weka 15.3

      Authors write what they want to write about, for obvious reasons.

      If people don’t like what they are offered to read I can think of some options. One is to submit guest posts. TS is looking for new contributors. The other is to spend time in the threads of the posts you like. Another is to support and encourage the authors who are writing what you want.

      • Lanthanide 15.3.1

        Another is to leave comments indicating your dislike.

        After all, if no one ever tells you that what you’re writing is crap, you’ll just go on writing crap. Constructive criticism has its place.

        • weka

          True, and I think the way around the criticising authors/telling them what to write thing is to emphasis the constructive.

          For instance, I’d like to know what Muttonbird wants to read (and I don’t disagree with some of their general criticisms). They haven’t said yet.

  14. joe90 16

    So the Podesta emails are most likely bogus.

    Who woulda thunk it.



    @mtracey This is a MIND BLOWING Goldman Sachs transcript that hasn't gotten much air yet: https://t.co/8byzpNHIc8 pic.twitter.com/zK6HYpyUun— The Omnivore (@OmnivoreBlog) October 7, 2016

  15. rhinocrates 17


    At 4 minutes, 35 seconds: “He is actually evolving”

    As Harry Plinkett would say (and he’d be a better candidate), Whaaaaaat? I thought you didn’t believe in evolution!

  16. joe90 18

    Oh fuck, this thread…….. (careful, lotsa women relating sexual assaults)

    kelly oxford


    Women: tweet me your first assaults. they aren’t just stats. I’ll go first:


    I’m 12.

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