Open Mike 08/10/2016

Written By: notices and features - Date published: 6:00 am, October 8th, 2016 - 108 comments
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108 comments on “Open Mike 08/10/2016 ”

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Ad 1

8 October 2016 at 6:33 am

Huge shoutout to all leftie candidates today. A great moment for you and your team.
Andre 2

8 October 2016 at 7:38 am

Ever wondered why rabid Hillary-hatred is such a thing? Here’s a relatively concise backgrounder.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/10/04/three-decades-of-crazy-myths-about-slick-willie-and-crooked-hillary.html

Two historically unpopular candidates? Maybe, but there’s still no real equivalence.

http://www.salon.com/2016/10/06/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-popularity/

Put these two articles together and it’s a good lesson on the effects of sustained dirty politics and polishing turds.
- Colonial Viper 2.1
  
  8 October 2016 at 8:35 am
  
  Why were two top Hillary aides given immunity from prosecution by the FBI – including being allowed to destroy their laptops so no further investigation could take place?
  
  The immunity deals for Mills and Samuelson were negotiated before they agreed to hand over their laptops which we now learn were subsequently destroyed.
  
  While we parse the letter to understand what basis for action the FBI may have had when pursuing such a course of action, we can’t help but note that the FBI appears to have acted as a co-conspirator in what appears to be an unprecedented case of destruction of key evidence.
  
  http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-10-03/fbi-allowed-2-hillary-aides-destroy-their-laptops-newly-exposed-side-agreements
  - Kiwiri 2.1.1
    
    8 October 2016 at 9:40 am
    
    Applying that standard to NZ for the future:
    
    – any of John Key’s mobile phone, devices, laptops, etc should also be wiped clean with BleachBit or destroyed when he leaves office?
    
    – any of his staff who operationalises that should be given immunity from prosecution by NZ police?
    - Colonial Viper 2.1.1.1
      
      8 October 2016 at 9:49 am
      
      If John Key follows Hillary’s example, he’ll use a hammer to smash his devices to make sure that any unwanted data is irrecoverable by authorities.
      - Kiwiri 2.1.1.1.1
        
        8 October 2016 at 10:19 am
        
        If he follows her example, someone else will do it for him (smiling assassin leaves no fingerprint):
        
        http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3772563/Clinton-aide-destroyed-two-Hillary-s-phones-breaking-half-hitting-hammer-FBI-documents-reveal.html
  - chris73 2.1.2
    
    8 October 2016 at 10:04 am
    
    For you CV
    - Colonial Viper 2.1.2.1
      
      8 October 2016 at 10:27 am
      
      Chur chris73.
      
      Gennifer Flowers says that Clinton enabled Bill’s predatory sexual behaviour.
      
      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3268814/Hillary-enabler-Bill-s-mistress-Gennifer-Flowers-speaks-former-Couple-s-40th-anniversary-says-secret-tapes.html
      
      All in the pursuit of power and more power.
      - chris73 2.1.2.1.1
        
        8 October 2016 at 10:40 am
        
        To be fair I don’t know how much of whats used is taken out of context, how much is 2+2 = 5 and how much is out right lies as I don’t really follow american politics all that much
      - marty mars 2.1.2.1.2
        
        8 October 2016 at 10:42 am
        
        yep the great small handed one wants power badly
        
        “Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump bragged about attempting to “fuck” married women and kissing women without waiting for their consent, “like a magnet”, in a 2005 conversation with a television host that was caught on a live microphone.
        
        “When you’re a star, they let you do it,” Trump says in the recording, obtained by the Washington Post. “You can do anything…
        
        …Trump’s remarks are the latest in a series of controversial and sexist statements about women, which have sent him plummeting to near historic unfavorability ratings with female voters.”
        
        https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/oct/07/donald-trump-leaked-recording-women
        
        Andre 2.1.2.1.2.1
        
        8 October 2016 at 11:19 am
        
        It’s not about “lewd”, it’s not about “sexist”, it’s about straight up sexual assault.
        
        http://www.vox.com/identities/2016/10/7/13206174/trump-leaked-lewd-pussy-comments-women-rape-sexual-assault
        
        Colonial Viper 2.1.2.1.2.2
        
        8 October 2016 at 1:38 pm
        
        marty mars, the establishment and the MSM is utterly desperate now!
        
        The poor old Guardian relegated to smearing Trump like they smeared that anti-semitic Corbyn.
        
        BTW what do women voters think about Hillary Clinton’s enabling of her husband’s predatory sexual behaviour which was first infamous throughout Arkansas…and eventually throughout D.C.?
        
        miravox …
        
        8 October 2016 at 9:50 pm
        
        Is that a riff on the “my wife doesn’t understand me” chat-up line?
        
        Or the powerful man needs a woman of a certain type (whatever that is) so he’ll behave, otherwise he just can’t keep it in his pants.
The Chairman 3

8 October 2016 at 7:46 am

“There will be a nervous King Country community as they wake up this morning.”
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/85104437/three-found-dead-in-waikato
- Gabby 3.1
  
  8 October 2016 at 11:13 am
  
  Care in the community. A bargain.
Andre 4

8 October 2016 at 8:04 am

Heh. Ted Cruz working the phones for Trump. He’s not lovin’ it.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/ted-cruz-donald-trump-phone-bank_us_57f74656e4b0b6a430315e45?section=&
chris73 5

8 October 2016 at 8:12 am

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/international/85072693/dan-carter-joe-rokocoko-fail-drug-tests-but-cleared-for-banned-substance–agent-says

And this is why we don’t jump to conclusions people
save nz 6

8 October 2016 at 9:06 am

Welcome to our Little America, where homelessness goes hand in hand with 6 million riffle ranges that do not need a resource consent next to a mediation retreat.

Thanks Auckland planning! sarc.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11724754
- chris73 6.1
  
  8 October 2016 at 9:45 am
  
  What do you have against a sports club that promotes safe handling of firearms? Also it takes 5 pages to get to the shooting club (if you google Tuhirangi) so maybe a bit of sensationalism going on plus the range design:
  
  http://www.aucklandshootingclub.org.nz/the-range
  
  looks pretty good to me so this is nothing more then nimbyism mixed in with guns = evil and an attempt to get the naive and ignorant worked up over nothing
  
  It looks like quite a good facility so hopefully it works out well for them
  
  and heres the directions on google maps
  
  https://www.google.co.nz/maps/dir/273+Tuhirangi+Road,+Makarau+0984/Dhamma+Medini+Vipassana+Meditation+Centre+153+Burnside+Rd,+Kaukapakapa+0873/@-36.5363139,174.4726722,14z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m13!4m12!1m5!1m1!1s0x6d0d1c555d5ca701:0x672d4c4efa0ea270!2m2!1d174.4807269!2d-36.5262703!1m5!1m1!1s0x6d0d1c4649bd2a77:0x19545498785bec5e!2m2!1d174.4996368!2d-36.5374748
  - save nz 6.1.1
    
    8 October 2016 at 10:01 am
    
    NIMBY the new right wing word to describe zero planning regulation and the ad hoc development making Auckland the stupidest unliveable little big city.
    
    Great to see no resource consent needed – council just takes the word of the developer. Oh well, we are in post truth era, we just take the gun clubs word for it.
    
    Similar consenting wiped out a golf club when a speedway/motocross site went up next door. While the riders wear helmets to drown out the noise, obviously changes the neighouring club if they all need to wear sound helmets too while playing golf.
    
    Poor planning decisions actually go against economic development, when people become reluctant to develop a business or venture when, the council can just destroy it by allowing something noisy and potentially more dangerous and at odds with existing developments no questions or conditions imposed.
    - chris73 6.1.1.1
      
      8 October 2016 at 10:19 am
      
      Go use google and find out how many incidents happen at shooting clubs in NZ (I’ll send you a chocolate fish if you find one)
      
      They got the cert of compliance for a reason and I doubt its because they rocked on up to the council and threatened the staff with a gun
      - save nz 6.1.1.1.1
        
        8 October 2016 at 11:06 am
        
        By the way Chris73 it’s when they leave the gun club that the incidents happen…
        
        chris73 6.1.1.1.1.1
        
        8 October 2016 at 11:19 am
        
        Well that makes sense doesn’t it, lets oppose a rifle range because accidents happen outside rifle ranges and away from their control
  - Draco T Bastard 6.1.2
    
    8 October 2016 at 11:03 am
    
    But residents adjacent to the club are upset they only found out about the plans by accident.
    
    I happen think that that is a pretty big deal.
    
    People do not have the right to affect others without their permission.
- Colonial Viper 6.2
  
  8 October 2016 at 10:47 am
  
  If the range had been a couple of extra hundred metres from the retreat centre that would have been ideal.
  
  As it is, the meditators will simply have to work harder at what they do. But they should get agreement from the gun club that there will be no firearms use before 9am if there are meditation courses on.
  - chris73 6.2.1
    
    8 October 2016 at 10:58 am
    
    Are you suggesting they actually talk to each other, why thats just crazy enough to work!
    - save nz 6.2.1.1
      
      8 October 2016 at 11:01 am
      
      Well clearly the gun club ‘did not get around to it’ with the talk phase….
      - Draco T Bastard 6.2.1.1.1
        
        8 October 2016 at 11:13 am
        
        Yeah, I noticed that as well. The gun clubs we always meant to talk to the neighbours but never got around to it tells me that they never intended to talk to the neighbours until after they’d started operations and probably not even then.
  - save nz 6.2.2
    
    8 October 2016 at 11:00 am
    
    Exactly CV, where are the conditions? Where is the enforcement if they do not meet their conditions? The gun club already say they will not eliminate the noise. There should be someone who does noise readings from the boundary to make sure that the noise is not excessive, because very often the effects are far more than they say it is on their application or effects are buried or ignored. (Ancient Kauri become high vegetation). Also note that the 650m are NOT from the boundaries of neighbours but from the centre of the property.
    
    There are plenty of noisy hobbies, the trick is to put them all together so that they all are ok with it or in an area with existing noise such as off a busy motorway in an industrial area such as Albany.
    
    Putting a gun club next to a mediation retreat in a quiet semi rural community without any conditions does not seem fair to me. And if anyone was going to start a B&B or what have you, clearly you would not go ahead as tourists don’t really come to NZ to stay near gun noise. Again cancels out both amenity and future economic activity for the community. There is also more traffic, etc etc.
    
    As for the Gun club, lets face it, do we need more guns or more mediation in NZ?
    
    Are we really a clean, green 100% pure country or is this just marketing, and the old image being actively destroyed by strange planning decisions?
    - chris73 6.2.2.1
      
      8 October 2016 at 11:14 am
      
      You forgot this:
      
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qh2sWSVRrmo
      
      You can meditate anywhere you like but you can’t use a firearm anywhere you like
      
      “We were told the land was zoned rural and a range is permitted and supported by the Unitary Plan.”
      
      Yep big surprise there, firearms are used in rural areas
      
      http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/85027667/countrys-largest-gun-club-to-be-built-next-to-meditation-centre
      
      “I approached the council asking where an appropriate piece of land with the right zoning would be. Acoustic testing has been carried out and we’re below the threshold.
      
      “A bird call from 10 metres away is 60 decibels, while our readings were 48 and lower.”
      
      I don’t know if thats right but if they approached the council first then what more could they do?
      
      “According to Auckland Council’s manager of northern resource consenting, Ian Dobson, outdoor firing ranges for pistols in rural areas are classified as recreational. This means only a certificate of compliance is required, instead of resource consent.”
      
      “The council has accepted an acoustic assessment confirming the small 12 range plan would comply with the district plan noise rules. Resource consents would be needed for parts of the bigger plan.”
      - Colonial Viper 6.2.2.1.1
        
        8 October 2016 at 12:41 pm
        
        “A bird call from 10 metres away is 60 decibels, while our readings were 48 and lower.”
        
        48 dB isn’t the end of the world, as long as during meditation retreats the range operators display a bit of flexibility around shooting start times.
        
        save nz 6.2.2.1.1.1
        
        8 October 2016 at 12:53 pm
        
        Yep but who is checking it is 48 decibels – the gun club and that’s one test. How about when they get into full operation. That’s my point. Plus the traffic and how many clients coming to use it, etc etc.
        
        Remember the Ports of Auckland were allowed to claim 1 km of harbour according to the council and Ports of Auckland without a consent. But that did not turn out to be the case.
        
        With a rifle range, it is one thing to just do it in the country recreationally, another to have a commercial operation with people coming from around Auckland to shoot there.
        
        chris73 …
        
        8 October 2016 at 1:13 pm
        
        “Yep but who is checking it is 48 decibels – the gun club and that’s one test. How about when they get into full operation. That’s my point. Plus the traffic and how many clients coming to use it, etc etc.”
        
        Your point is invalid:
        
        “The council has accepted an acoustic assessment confirming the small 12 range plan would comply with the district plan noise rules. Resource consents would be needed for parts of the bigger plan.”
        
        Get over it, they obtained all the consent they need to start and if they need more they’ll need to apply for it
        
        Colonial Viper …
        
        8 October 2016 at 1:26 pm
        
        Being good, good neighbours requires more than just getting council consents.
        
        chris73 …
        
        8 October 2016 at 1:57 pm
        
        And something shouldn’t be stopped because of the ill-informed prejudices of a few people
      - Draco T Bastard 6.2.2.1.2
        
        8 October 2016 at 4:27 pm
        
        I don’t know if thats right but if they approached the council first then what more could they do?
        
        Ask the neighbours?
        
        And something shouldn’t be stopped because of the ill-informed prejudices of a few people
        
        But it should be if those people don’t want to be affected by the commercial operation.
save nz 7

8 October 2016 at 9:11 am

Freedom of speech on the way out…

Jewish man arrested after criticizing Israel and U.S. at Kansas library’s pro-Israel event

http://www.salon.com/2016/10/07/jewish-man-arrested-after-criticizing-israel-and-u-s-at-kansas-librarys-pro-israel-event/
- Cinny 7.1
  
  8 October 2016 at 9:43 am
  
  He asked the wrong question…
  
  Issues arose after Ross finished speaking and took a question from Jeremy Rothe-Kushel concerning whether Jewish Americans like Rothe-Kushel should be concerned about actions by the U.S. and Israel that amount to “state-sponsored terrorism.”
  
  “When are we going to stand up and be ethical Jews and Americans?” Rothe-Kushel asked.
  
  There are many Jews in Israel that feel the same as Roth-Kushel, but over there they like to assault and/or jail those whom ask questions like that in a public arena. It’s horrid for them. As a result they just end up switching off from politics, it’s safer than ones whole family being persecuted or labelled as sympathizers and placed on a database.
  
  There are laws over there… it sucks for those whom care about people more than power.
  
  http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/07/israel-narrowing-space-freedom-expression-160720073126511.html
- Draco T Bastard 7.2
  
  8 October 2016 at 11:43 am
  
  Kansas City police spokeswoman Capt. Stacey Graves said off-duty officers hired by the event sponsor acted properly in helping private security stop an audience member from asking follow-up questions.
  
  No, actually, they didn’t. They actually unprofessionally and unethically.
  
  Rothe-Kushel is charged in city court with trespassing and resisting arrest.
  
  So, he was at a public event at a public space and he was trespassing?
  Was it made clear to him that he was being arrested?
save nz 8

8 October 2016 at 9:48 am

The real problem with Donald Trump’s tax avoidance? It’s perfectly legal

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/oct/07/donald-trump-tax-avoidance-businesses
Chooky 9

8 October 2016 at 10:07 am

Why the USA is at war against Syria, a country that does not threaten it, and the democratically elected leader Assad, who is a bulwark against ISIS…brave Americans speak out , including one CIA analyst

‘Dangerous escalation’

https://www.rt.com/shows/crosstalk/361636-russia-west-syria-tensions/

“The downward spiral continues with no end in sight. A dangerous escalation in tensions separating Russia and the West can be witnessed in a decline in diplomatic engagement, particularly concerning Syria.”

CrossTalking with Ray McGovern, Earl Rasmussen, and Vladimir Golstein.
- Colonial Viper 9.1
  
  8 October 2016 at 10:49 am
  
  Zero Hedge says that US has officially labelled Russia as the hackers who got inside the DNC and other political databases.
  
  The US has also previously said that it will treat acts of cyberwarfare in the same category as other acts of war.
RTM 10

8 October 2016 at 10:30 am

Our second longest serving PM was a fanatical member of a white supremacist, pyramids-obsessed cult. So why’s avid Farrar so keen to defend him?
http://readingthemaps.blogspot.co.nz/2016/10/william-massey-and.html
- rhinocrates 10.1
  
  8 October 2016 at 10:55 am
  
  You’ve already answered your own question.
- Stuart Munro 10.2
  
  8 October 2016 at 11:42 am
  
  He’ll be wanting to find a PM so bad he constitutes a positive comparison for the Key misgovernment.
- alwyn 10.3
  
  8 October 2016 at 2:40 pm
  
  I presume you are aware of the appalling racist behaviour of those great symbols of the beliefs of the New Zealand Labour Party, Harry Holland and Michael Joseph Savage?
  Nasty SOBs the pair of them wouldn’t you say?
  Are the Labour Party going to go in for posthumous expulsions from their place among the saints of the party?
  https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/DOM19200917.2.62
marty mars 11

8 October 2016 at 10:47 am

practice you dim otherwise it will be boring oh and stop the lies

“On Thursday, in a rare effort to prepare for Sunday’s town hall debate against Clinton, Trump conducted a public rehearsal in front of a live crowd in Sandown, New Hampshire. It did not go well.

“They were saying this is practice for Sunday. This isn’t practice,” Trump told the crowd, as he stood in front of a countdown clock that ticked off the two minutes that he was given to respond to pre-written questions from conservative radio host Howie Carr, a prominent Trump supporter. “We’re just here because we wanted to be here,” he added, as Chris Christie, his purported debate coach, watched anxiously from the side.”

http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/10/donald-trump-town-hall

pre-written questions omg
- Colonial Viper 11.1
  
  8 October 2016 at 1:28 pm
  
  pre-written questions omg
  
  At this town hall meeting did Trump use any minors with rehearsed questions to further his political agenda, like Hillary did?
  
  http://www.infowars.com/fake-hilary-clinton-takes-question-from-child-actor-corporate-media-regurgitates-footage/
  
  As to how the New Hampshire Town Hall event went – you decide
  - marty mars 11.1.1
    
    8 October 2016 at 2:07 pm
    
    He couldn’t even get it with pre-written questions, in advance, with time to prepare answers and answer within the self imposed time limits to simulate the next debate – and somehow that is a big win for you – yeah nah
    - Colonial Viper 11.1.1.1
      
      8 October 2016 at 2:16 pm
      
      No child actors with rehearsed questions then?
      - marty mars 11.1.1.1.1
        
        8 October 2016 at 2:51 pm
        
        no not that I’m aware of just pre-written questions, in advance, with time to prepare answers and answer within the self imposed time limits to simulate the next debate – he couldn’t do that so god knows he couldn’t handle child actors if any of them even wanted to be associated with him. Remember even the bald eagle thought he was a wanker and attacked him. Bubby he couldn’t even answer his childhood memory patsy question – absolute failure.
      - One Anonymous Bloke 11.1.1.1.2
        
        8 October 2016 at 3:13 pm
        
        Hillary Clinton is inauthentic! That’s the first time you’ve actually made something stick. At first I was inclined to dismiss it out-of-hand on account of your sad track record, but then I realised you’d got a hit!
        
        Now, about these sexual assaults…
- joe90 11.2
  
  8 October 2016 at 2:06 pm
  
  Trump was reduced to taking questions from his own staff.
  
  Unlike a typical town hall, where voters pepper a candidate with questions, attendees had to write out questions on note cards and submit them to the campaign ahead of time.
  
  The questions were then read aloud by the moderator – conservative radio host Howie Carr – who sat with Trump at the front of the room, separated from the crowd by a red, velvet rope line. Questions ranged from what Trump would do for veterans – asked by campaign adviser state Rep. Al Baldasaro –
  
  http://www.concordmonitor.com/Donald-Trump-has-town-hall-in-sandown-nh-5225600
  
  (Baldasaro is the loose unit who called for Clinton to be put in front of a firing quad.)
  - marty mars 11.2.1
    
    8 October 2016 at 2:11 pm
    
    “The Republican nominee proceeded to act in no way as if he attempting to prepare for this Sunday’s town-hall debate, so technically, he was not lying. He routinely blew past the supposed two-minute limit with his responses to questions such as, “What is your favorite childhood memory?””
    
    http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/10/donald-trump-town-hall
    
    such a hard question that one – ummm riding in my first rolls royce or was it when billy the butler slipped and fell over – pretty sure it was terrific whatever it was.
marty mars 12

8 October 2016 at 3:07 pm

Disgusting school – no wonder kids get traumatised.

“Revelations a primary school was locking misbehaving children in a cell-like “time out” room has prompted the Children’s Commissioner to look into whether such practices are systemic.

Miramar Primary School in Wellington was investigated by the Ministry of Education after an 11-year-old disabled boy was discovered locked in a room the size of a cupboard in July, distraught and alone.

The investigation found the child, who is autistic and has the intellectual age of a toddler, had been placed in the room 13 times in nine days for behaviour including grabbing people.

He was heard yelling from the room “I’ll be good I’ll be good” by his behaviour therapist, who said the event will have lasting psychological effect.”

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11725120

Some people should be gone for this abuse.
rhinocrates 13

8 October 2016 at 3:52 pm

Sow the wild wind, reap the whirlwind. The militias never went away and are growing again.

Inside America’s Militias
Podcast — all the domestic extremism we’re not talking about

by MATTHEW GAULT
Domestic terrorism didn’t start or end with Timothy McVeigh…

This week on War College, domestic extremism expert J.J. MacNab walks us through the current state of America’s militia and domestic terror movements.

https://warisboring.com/inside-americas-armed-militias-221218bfc6a4#.8g43mm75f
- rhinocrates 13.1
  
  8 October 2016 at 4:19 pm
  
  …about 25 minutes in on their political allegiances. Not surprisingly, they’re solidly behind Orange Jesus.
  
  …about 33 in: “the political horseshoe…the fringe at either end have more in common than the mainstream.”
  - Sacha 13.1.1
    
    8 October 2016 at 9:50 pm
    
    short distance from far left to far right, yes.
    like old socialist Labour birthing Act neolibs.
Morrissey 14

8 October 2016 at 4:24 pm

As Diane Robertson and Paul Casserly seethed in enforced silence,
David Cumin’s farrago of lies went unchecked yesterday
The Panel, RNZ National, Friday 7 October 2016, 4:20 p.m.
Jesse Mulligan, Paul Casserly, Diane Robertson, Megan Whelan
http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/thepanel/audio/201819149/gaza-blockade

Anyone who listened to the light chat show The Panel on Thursday would have come in for a pleasant surprise. Instead of Jim “Lord Haw Haw Haw” Mora or his dismally ill-prepared regular substitute Jesse “Mmmm, mmmm” Mulligan, there were three intelligent and serious people in the studio: Jon Bridges, Golnaz Bassam-Tabar, and Ellen Read. This was a stroke of good fortune, given that the big story of the day was the outlaw Israeli regime’s interception, in international waters, of the ship Zaytouna-Oliva, which was full of gravely menacing peace activists, including Nobel Peace Prize laureate Mairead Corrigan and a New Zealand member of parliament. Usually on such an occasion, the guests happen to be of the calibre of Neil Miller or Mark Inglis or Chris Wikaira or John Barnett: people who are either ideologically committed to the Holy State or so intellectually incurious that they have nothing useful to say on the matter.

Thursday’s Panel, though, was different. When they were asked to comment on the kidnapping, there was none of the normal mealy-mouthed obfuscation, or the verbal flannel (“it’s a very COMPLEX situation”) or the callous and unfunny jokes that usually make listening to this program such a dispiriting experience. Golnaz Bassam-Tabar in particular spoke candidly of how the people of the Gaza enclave have been been suffering from an “illegal siege, for nearly ten years now, that has crippled Gaza, that has blocked aid supplies, has blocked food supplies, construction supplies, medical supplies.” Ellen Read, though clearly not as well informed on the matter as Golnaz, made some earnest comments, as did host Jon Bridges.

Sadly, however, this oasis of decency was not destined to last for long. Yesterday Jesse Mulligan was back in the hosting chair, and it was transmission pretty much as normal. Also listening to Golnaz Bassam-Tabar’s revolutionary act of speaking truthfully on RNZ National had been one David Cumin, of the right wing New Zealand Jewish Council. No doubt he and several other angry pro-Israel activists lost no time in putting their views across to RNZ receptionists, producers, hosts and, of course, of Radio New Zealand chairman (and erstwhile Panel guest) Richard Griffin. As a result, David Cumin was extended an uncontested “right of reply”, with the Panel guests obviously instructed not to utter a single word, and the host not permitted to do anything other than read out the questions. David Cumin was thus free to heap ridicule on Marama Davidson, to distort, and tell outright lies, without fear of contradiction….

JESSE MULLIGAN: Now yesterday on The Panel, Jon Bridges and the Panelists discussed the detention in Israel of Green Party M.P. Marama Davidson, who was on a protest ship attempting to reach GAZA. As you may have heard, Marama Davidson has now been RELEASED from a prison in central Israel and is flying back to New Zealand and is expected to arrive tomorrow morning. The Gaza situation is a very COMPLEX one, as you’ll probably KNOW [nervous snicker], and it causes a great DEAL of DEBATE. And yesterday one of our Panelists referred to the Palestinians as being under an illegal SIEGE. David Cumin from the New Zealand Jewish Council is with us now, and David, welcome to the SHOW, and in your, ahhhh, view, IS it an illegal siege?

DAVID CUMIN: Hi-i-i, Jesse, thanks for having me on. Ahhhh, no-o-o, um, the choice of WORDS that have been used, ahhhhh, just like Marama describing herself as being KIDNAPPED, uh, or held hostage, ahh, are really designed to proVOKE more than anything, um, and I think, it’s not only my view but it’s, um, the view of more, ummm, senior people than me that the blockade is LEGAL. In fact, new Zealand’s own, ahhh, Sir Geoffrey Palmer led a report to the U.N. that found not only is the maritime blockade LEGAL, ahh, but it was—and these are HIS words—“a legitimate security measure in order to prevent weapons from entering Gaza by sea.” Uh, so-o-o-o it’s not just my view, the blockade IS legal, and I think that it’s a really important point, ah, that everyone should understand, uh, as opposed, as to the word “siege”, ah, I don’t think it’s accurate to describe the movement of fifteen thousand PEOPLE each MONTH, and two thousand truckloads of food per WEEK as a siege. Ahh, those are the numbers that travel between Israel and Gaza. Ah, so-o-o, y’ow I just think they’re the wrong words that were being used.

JESSE MULLIGAN: Okay, it was also claimed yesterday that Gaza is an open-air mass prison of suffering under the guise of security for Israel, and we do know conditions there can be pretty grim. There’s a sea and air blockade, and high unemployment, but what’s your perspective on that?

DAVID CUMIN: Sure. So, er, uh, aGAIN, I think that it’s important to note that the, um, the U.N. has found that the blockade is LEGAL, and it’s a legitimate security MEASURE, to keep Israelis SAFE, basically. Um, and so I think when you say there’s a “guise” of security, it belies the fact that there are being rockets that are fired into Israel, there are TUNNELS that are being built, ahhhhm, to, to, um, commit terror attacks. Ahhh, and so withOUT, errr, border security and the maritime blockade, ahh, the Israeli people would be in grave DANGER. Errrr, Hamas has a, a charter that calls for the destruction of Israel. Um, and I think that the important point in the Palmer report was that that charter was being ENACTED by thousands of rockets being fired on Israeli citizens. So, errr, there’s no “guise of security” here, it’s a reality, and it’s a reality that hasn’t STOPPED. Ahh, on the morning that the, the boat Marama was on was intercepted, there was a rocket that was fired and landed in a city in Israel. So-o-o, uh, y’know, we need to keep that in mind I think that there’s a RE-E-EAL security THREAT here that, um, is making the, the situation COMPLEX.

JESSE MULLIGAN: Mara D-, er, Marama Davidson is on her way home now, what are YOUR thoughts to travel as part of the protest flotilla?

DAVID CUMIN: [snickers sardonically]Heh heh. Huh! To be honest, I’m really disappointed that a New Zealand politician would so-o-o, ahhh, UNASHAMEDLY decide to-o-o VIOLATE international law, uh, a-and, uh, violate another country’s sovereignty, just for the sake of some media attention. Ahhhh, it, it’s also come to light that the people that she’s associated herself with, ahhh, are really NOT promoters of PEACE, um, there’s one who created a video game to shoot Israelis. Ahhh, a couple of the women on, on the boat that she’s with blamed Israel for the nine eleven attacks and the more recent terror attacks in Nice and Munich. Um, we know that Kia Ora Gaza, the group that helped Marama from New Zealand, has voiced support for violence against Israelis, and the destruction of the Jewish state, so, you know, it’s really sad that these are the sort of values that Marama is, is showing, and I don’t think that they reflect the New Zealand public.

JESSE MULLIGAN: Give us your perspective on the best way to DEAL with this blockade. It’s clearly not ideal for the people of Gaza, what would you see happen?

DAVID CUMIN: Ahhhh, it’s not ideal for the people of Gaza, I don’t think it’s ideal for the people of ISRAEL either. Um, so we’ve got to remember that in two thousand and FIVE, Israel unilaterally withDREW from the Strip, um, and at that TIME there was, y’know, access for people to freely travel and, and Israelis enjoyed the BEACH and the people of Gaza enjoyed, um, working in Israel and traveling across. Ahhhh, unfortunately Hamas took over, ahh, control and with the increase in rocket attacks, uh, Israel had to PROTECT itself. So, um, errrrr, there’s still, as I said, fifteen thousand people each month and two thousand truckloads a week that get through, so it’s NOT a siege by ANY means, and it’s, it’s not a prison by ANY means, but look, I think the SOLUTION, Jesse, that you’re asking is, is really quite straightforward: WHEN THERE CEASES TO BE A SECURITY THREAT, THERE WILL CEASE TO BE THE NEED FOR A BLOCKADE. So as soon as, as the rockets stop firing, the tunnels stop being built, and the threat to Israeli lives is STOPPED, there will be a solution.

JESSE MULLIGAN: All right, Doctor David Cumin from the New Zealand Jewish Council, thanks so much for your time today.

DAVID CUMIN: Thank you, I appreciate it.

—————————————————————————-

Those readers interested in informing themselves about the situation in Gaza, and the outrage that is the Palmer-Uribe “Report” should listen to someone who, unlike the crude propagandist in the above exchange, actually knows something about Gaza, and speaks about it plainly…..
http://www.alternet.org/world/noam-chomsky-nightmare-gaza
- Paul 14.1
  
  8 October 2016 at 7:53 pm
  
  Mulligan lacks the spine to handle these right wing thugs.
Muttonbird 15

8 October 2016 at 7:30 pm

Does the obsession with the American election by some authors on this site point to their disinterest about important New Zealand matters?

Are these authors political tragics first and socially responsible second?

It certainly seems that way to me.

Just saying that if you have the major players at the standard more concerned with US politics, Syria, and getting Andrew Little to apologise for the 4th Labour government, than actual NZ communities then I’d say there’s a problem.
- Paul 15.1
  
  8 October 2016 at 7:34 pm
  
  TRP posted that to wind CV up I sense.
  And yes, important stuff to discuss in this country.
  Syria spiraling into WW3 should concern us .
  - Colonial Viper 15.1.1
    
    8 October 2016 at 7:43 pm
    
    If Hillary Clinton and her team of corporate warmongering neocons gets in, US forces and Russian forces will be firing at each other within 12 months.
    
    Whether it is a strictly limited one-off “incident” between two minor military units or it escalates into a full scale in-theatre battles I don’t know, but it will happen.
    
    And it could be in Ukraine, it could be in Syria, or it could be somewhere else altogether.
    - Paul 15.1.1.1
      
      8 October 2016 at 7:48 pm
      
      I reckon less than 12 months.
      - Colonial Viper 15.1.1.1.1
        
        8 October 2016 at 8:06 pm
        
        Could be less than 12 months, but the neocons would still need to get all the problem officials out of the way or on side eg. Chair of the Joint Chiefs Dunford.
        
        Paul 15.1.1.1.1.1
        
        8 October 2016 at 8:09 pm
        
        Seems like there’s almost a civil war running in the American establishment over this,
        
        http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/09/20/rogue-mission-did-the-pentagon-bomb-syrian-army-to-kill-ceasefire-deal/
        
        http://www.middleeasteye.net/columns/how-pentagon-sank-us-russia-campaign-syria-and-ceasefire-1932525374
        
        http://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2016/09/20/why-us-had-kill-syrian-ceasefire.html
        
        Colonial Viper …
        
        8 October 2016 at 9:58 pm
        
        I think climate change is going to severely fuck things in the next 15-ish years, but one thing which will fuck things even faster than that is a limited nuclear exchange.
        
        Remembering that a typical modern nuclear warhead is between 5x and 50x more powerful than the ones used on Nagasaki and Hiroshima.
        
        Paul …
        
        8 October 2016 at 10:03 pm
        
        Are there neocons out there who think nuclear war is winnable?
        
        Colonial Viper …
        
        8 October 2016 at 10:27 pm
        
        With a combination of cyberwarfare disrupting Russia’s command and control, ABM systems shooting down anything Russia does try to launch and decapitation strikes taking out Putin and Putin’s inner circle, yes I think that there are scenarios being detailed and gamed out.
        
        Also some neocons are convinced that Russia would never commit to an actual nuclear war so the US would win a limited nuclear confrontation almost by default.
        
        Paul …
        
        8 October 2016 at 10:29 pm
        
        Scary.
        
        Colonial Viper …
        
        8 October 2016 at 10:38 pm
        
        Do you read The Saker’s website, Paul?
        
        TheExtremist …
        
        8 October 2016 at 10:41 pm
        
        Jesus man, all you’ve done is switched from Western propaganda to Russian propaganda. It’s still bullshit, just from another country.
        
        But still bullshit.
        
        Paul …
        
        8 October 2016 at 10:48 pm
        
        No. Is it good?
        
        Colonial Viper …
        
        8 October 2016 at 10:55 pm
        
        Paul I suspect that you may be in for a treat. The Saker has created a website format and system which is really quite unique.
        
        He aggregates a lot of material and writes a lot of material (he is a former civilian European military analyst).
        
        Check this out:
        
        http://thesaker.is/russian-options-against-a-us-attack-on-syria/
        
        And also one of his regular interviews on the well known US based Solari Report:
        
        http://thesaker.is/catherine-austin-fitts-interviews-the-saker-for-the-solari-report-the-emerging-multipolar-world-with-saker-russia-ukraine-the-risks-of-war/
        
        Colonial Viper …
        
        8 October 2016 at 10:58 pm
        
        Jesus man, all you’ve done is switched from Western propaganda to Russian propaganda. It’s still bullshit, just from another country.
        
        Huh? The Saker is an experienced civilian military analyst. Yes, he writes from a different perspective than what you get from the corporate MSM. But his rationales and analysis is generally very solid. It is also way more thoughtful than your average MSM piece on anything to do with Syria, Ukraine or Russian/US relations.
        
        TheExtremist …
        
        8 October 2016 at 11:06 pm
        
        “The Saker is an experienced civilian military analyst. Yes, he writes from a different perspective than what you get from the corporate MSM. But his rationales and analysis is generally very solid. ”
        
        So fucking what? If I posted the exact same comment yet replaced The Saker with a Fox News contributor you’d call BS and rightly so. You’re just replacing one propagandist for another. Still fucking bullshit.
        
        Colonial Viper …
        
        8 October 2016 at 11:17 pm
        
        Why developments in Syria reveal an Obama Administration in confused agony
        
        By the Saker
        
        Of course, the fact that the Americans are acting like clueless frustrated children does not mean that Russia will reciprocate in kind.
        
        We have already seen Lavrov go back and further negotiate with Kerry. Not because the Russians are naive, but precisely because, unlike their US colleagues, the Russians are professionals who know that negotiations and open lines of communications are always, and by definition, preferable to a walk-away, especially when dealing with a superpower.
        
        Those observers who criticize Russia for being “weak” or “naive” simply project their own, mostly American, “reaction set” on the Russians and fail to realize the simply truth that Russians are not Americans, they think differently and they act differently.
        
        For one thing, the Russians don’t care if they are perceived as “weak” or “naive”. In fact, they would prefer to be perceived as such if that furthers their goals and confuses the opponent about their real intentions and capabilities. The Russians know that they did not build the biggest country on the planet by being “weak” or “naive” and they won’t be take lessons from a country which is younger that many Russian buildings.
        
        The western paradigm is usually like this: a crises leads to a breakdown in negotiations and conflict follows. The Russian paradigm is completely different: a crisis leads to negotiations which are conducted up the the last second before a conflict erupts. There are two reasons for that: first, continuing to negotiate up to the last second makes it possible to seek a way out of the confrontation up to the last second and, second, negotiations up to the last second make it possible to come as close as possible to achieving strategic surprise for an attack.
        
        This is exactly how Russia acted in Crimea and in Syria – with absolutely no warning signs or, even less so, a well-publicized display of power to attempt to intimidate somebody (intimidation is also a western political strategy the Russians don’t use).
        
        So Lavrov will continue to negotiate, no matter how ridiculous and useless such negotiations will appear. And Lavrov himself will probably never officially utter the word “недоговороспособны”, but the message to the Russian people and to the Syrian, Iranian and Chinese allies of Russia will be that at this point Russia has lost any hope of dealing with the current US Administration.
        
        http://thesaker.is/why-the-recent-developments-in-syria-show-that-the-obama-administration-is-in-a-state-of-confused-agony/
  - Muttonbird 15.1.2
    
    8 October 2016 at 7:50 pm
    
    I couldn’t give two fucks about the US election. Seems like a proliferation of the cult of celebrity to me. Not interested.
    
    Posters like CV and TRP are buying into this cult and as such are buying into John Key’s americanisation of New Zealand.
    - Paul 15.1.2.1
      
      8 October 2016 at 7:52 pm
      
      Yet we should concern ourselves about the Ukraine and Syria.
      - Muttonbird 15.1.2.1.1
        
        8 October 2016 at 7:57 pm
        
        Yeah right, Syria and Ukraine is serious but Israel has been that way for decades. Nothing done about it.
        
        These are distractions. The real problem for New Zealand is the current small and unaccountable government.
        
        Paul 15.1.2.1.1.1
        
        8 October 2016 at 8:01 pm
        
        Ukraine and Syria are not distractions.
        It’s serious stuff.
        Listen to Pilger.
        I would recommend you spend 15 minutes doing that.
    - Colonial Viper 15.1.2.2
      
      8 October 2016 at 8:10 pm
      
      I couldn’t give two fucks about the US election. Seems like a proliferation of the cult of celebrity to me. Not interested.
      
      Maybe you think Goff winning the Auckland Mayoralty is a more worthwhile discussion? Or who is going to be the next MP of Mt Roskill? Or perhaps what will Chloe Swarbrick do next in NZ politics?
      
      But really, those are all things that I am not only not interested in but I would say that a clear majority of Aucklanders also have zero interest in – apart from the fish and chip paper of the day.
      - Muttonbird 15.1.2.2.1
        
        8 October 2016 at 8:15 pm
        
        You are part of the problem then. Fuck you.
        
        Paul 15.1.2.2.1.1
        
        8 October 2016 at 8:18 pm
        
        That seems a bit intemperate.
        
        Sacha 15.1.2.2.1.2
        
        8 October 2016 at 10:00 pm
        
        Most of us are capable of walking and chewing gum at the same time, thanks. Coverage is not zero-sum.
      - Paul 15.1.2.2.2
        
        8 October 2016 at 8:16 pm
        
        I think our terrible levels of inequality is a worthwhile discussion.
        I think the housing crisis is a worthwhile discussion.
        I think the loss of our sovereignty through the TPP is a worthwhile discussion.
        
        And I also think Syria and Ukraine make for a worthwhile discussion.
        
        Joining the dots between each is the most worthwhile discussion.
        
        It has a name.
        Neoliberalism.
        
        Colonial Viper 15.1.2.2.2.1
        
        8 October 2016 at 9:46 pm
        
        Neoliberalism is part of it, but the more dangerous part of it is unipolar neoconservative exceptionalism.
        
        Paul …
        
        8 October 2016 at 9:59 pm
        
        True that
- Incognito 15.2
  
  8 October 2016 at 8:27 pm
  
  🙂
  
  The same thought has crossed my mind more than once but I’ve come to the conclusion that TS really is a broad church. In addition, nobody’s post/comment is better/worse than any other – there are exceptions that prove the rule. So, live and let live 😉
  - Muttonbird 15.2.1
    
    8 October 2016 at 8:37 pm
    
    Broad church is fine but we have two ‘authors’ with their extra powers writing very US centric shite day after day while sitting in their cold Dunedin flats.
    - Incognito 15.2.1.1
      
      8 October 2016 at 8:52 pm
      
      I’ve become really good at fast, precise & accurate scrolling up & down recently. I had already lots of experience in blocking out & ignoring adds and click-bait on sites such as the NZ Herald but my hand-eye coordination has jumped to a new level since the US presidential elections went into full spring.
      
      It doesn’t bother me much nor do I care about their ‘power’ or whether they take up a lot of TS bandwidth. There is lots of stuff here on TS that makes me coming back and also contribute; some days are better than others but that’s life.
      - Muttonbird 15.2.1.1.1
        
        8 October 2016 at 9:00 pm
        
        You have done well to block out the Trump shit because those two cock-wavers talk of nothing else.
        
        [you’re straying into attacking authors there Muttonbird, as well as telling them what to write, both of which are against the site Policy. Please tone it down a bit – weka]
    - Colonial Viper 15.2.1.2
      
      8 October 2016 at 10:41 pm
      
      writing very US centric shite day after day while sitting in their cold Dunedin flats.
      
      Is this like being a Bernie supporter living in their parent’s basement?
- weka 15.3
  
  8 October 2016 at 9:41 pm
  
  Authors write what they want to write about, for obvious reasons.
  
  If people don’t like what they are offered to read I can think of some options. One is to submit guest posts. TS is looking for new contributors. The other is to spend time in the threads of the posts you like. Another is to support and encourage the authors who are writing what you want.
  - Lanthanide 15.3.1
    
    8 October 2016 at 11:01 pm
    
    Another is to leave comments indicating your dislike.
    
    After all, if no one ever tells you that what you’re writing is crap, you’ll just go on writing crap. Constructive criticism has its place.
    - weka 15.3.1.1
      
      8 October 2016 at 11:13 pm
      
      True, and I think the way around the criticising authors/telling them what to write thing is to emphasis the constructive.
      
      For instance, I’d like to know what Muttonbird wants to read (and I don’t disagree with some of their general criticisms). They haven’t said yet.
joe90 16

8 October 2016 at 9:38 pm

So the Podesta emails are most likely bogus.

Who woulda thunk it.
/

http://crooksandliars.com/2016/10/megyn-kelly-forced-apologize-air-reading

edit:

@mtracey This is a MIND BLOWING Goldman Sachs transcript that hasn't gotten much air yet: https://t.co/8byzpNHIc8 pic.twitter.com/zK6HYpyUun— The Omnivore (@OmnivoreBlog) October 7, 2016
rhinocrates 17

8 October 2016 at 10:00 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_ngEc41oXg

At 4 minutes, 35 seconds: “He is actually evolving”

As Harry Plinkett would say (and he’d be a better candidate), Whaaaaaat? I thought you didn’t believe in evolution!
- joe90 17.1
  
  8 October 2016 at 10:12 pm
  
  Ana Navarro: "Don't tell me your offended when I say pussy but you're not offended when Donald Trump says it!" 😳 pic.twitter.com/XydXMH3PWC— Keith Boykin (@keithboykin) October 8, 2016
  - rhinocrates 17.1.1
    
    8 October 2016 at 10:37 pm
    
    Heh.
joe90 18

8 October 2016 at 11:20 pm

Oh fuck, this thread…….. (careful, lotsa women relating sexual assaults)

kelly oxford
✔
@kellyoxford

Women: tweet me your first assaults. they aren’t just stats. I’ll go first:

[…]

I’m 12.

https://twitter.com/kellyoxford/status/784541062119456769
- weka 18.1
  
  8 October 2016 at 11:35 pm
  
  context is Trump’s bragging about sexually assaulting women (same content warning)
  
  http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/women-tweet-sexual-assaults-donald-trump_us_57f843e7e4b0b6a4303268dd?
  
  But hey, it’s ok, Trump is the champion of the common man right?
  - joe90 18.1.1
    
    8 October 2016 at 11:40 pm
    
    And a democrat.
    
    SEATTLE — Taking a partisan view of Donald Trump’s lewd comments about women, Washington State Republican Party Chairman Susan Hutchison said Friday night that the GOP presidential nominee’s “indecent comments in 2005 … were made when he was a Democrat.”
    
    http://q13fox.com/2016/10/07/state-gop-chairwoman-says-trumps-lewd-comments-were-made-when-he-was-a-democrat/
  - miravox 18.1.2
    
    8 October 2016 at 11:46 pm
    
    “But hey, it’s ok, Trump is the champion of the common man right?”
    
    A million women. Just a normal part of growing up if it’s that many huh? This thread shows why Trump’s behaviour won’t affect his core support. In fact some are probably enjoying the reading right now.
    
    Others however… (hopefully)
    - joe90 18.1.2.1
      
      8 October 2016 at 11:55 pm
      
      Now here’s an idea.
      
      I'm not saying we should *permanently* ban men from running for office, but for a while, you know, until we figure out what's going on.— Chloe Angyal (@ChloeAngyal) October 8, 2016
      - miravox 18.1.2.1.1
        
        9 October 2016 at 12:10 am
        
        Heh!
        
        Well it may help protect our young sons from vile ‘locker-room talk’ that they may feel entitled, nay – obligated, to act out.
      - weka 18.1.2.1.2
        
        9 October 2016 at 12:13 am
        
        Sounds good to me.
- joe90 18.2
  
  8 October 2016 at 11:45 pm
  
  On vileness….9 volumes plus a 2016 candidate edition
  
  http://goprapeadvisorychart.com/2016-candidate-edition