"For the next four months, a doctor will be available just three days a week at the medical centre, instead of five, and many of those consultations will be by video, not in person."
People will still be able to make appointments to see Reefton’s rural nurse specialist and practice nurse, including on weekends and holidays, and they will be available on-call for emergencies.
I would have thought teleconsults could be done from Chch too, so it's not entirely clear what is happening here.
The problem is that if you have "a" GP they never get time off. They are on call 24 hours of every day and holidays become almost impossible to arrange. It would need more than providing a house to overcome that problem.
At least a doctor who works in a big city Medical Centre can take holidays.
Reported my + covid result yesterday afternoon. My GP called me on my mobile last night to ensure I was ok, stocked up with medication and supplies, and to ensure I knew the signs of significant problems. Offered a loan of a pulse oximeter, they have 15 for loaning out, but my daughter had bought me one (and a body temp sensor) about 6 months back.
I don't think you'd get better service from a GP than that.
I don't understand your question though in terms of your original comment. When you said "a GP to live in that area would be to gift them some land with a decent house on it." I assumed you meant a permanent resident, not a locum. Were you suggesting a house for a locum would be an incentive?
If, on the other hand, you were suggesting that the permanent doctor could get a locum so they could take a holiday I don't see how they could do it. If the DHB can't find locums how is an individual doctor going to do any better?
The DHB can find locums, just not enough in the current system. Who do you think does the three days a week currently? Having a permanent GP would change things a lot, then bring in locums as the GP needs to go on holiday, have breaks etc. It's not an all or nothing.
From the link,
The Reefton clinic serves a population of about 1000 people and is staffed by GP locums supplied by the DHB, who often stay locally. Some have worked in the town for several months at a time.
My late father did a locum for a rural GP in the mid 1950's. He was advised that many of the locals had not yet grasped the principles of a cash economy. He got the GMS benefit for everyone he saw, but the rest was very much "in kind". Fortunately my mother was raised on a farm and her father was a butcher so being confronted with large lumps of recently demised animal or bird (often complete with shotgun pellets) did not worry her. She could also pluck and dress a chicken. We were particularly happy if someone had been over to the coast and we got fresh or smoked fish or crayfish. When there was not produce it was "mow your lawn Doc?" or "clean your car Doc?". We certainly ate well and his tax return was very good that year,
Might work for a couple who are both GPs? But assuming they have accommodation for locums, I was thinking a freehold house would be the kind of incentive for someone to make the move permanently.
"Chair Lisa Neil says the absence of a GP will load more work on to the minimal nursing staff at the medical centre.
“We have a vulnerable elderly community here and the nurses are already under pressure dealing with Covid in the community.”
Cutting services at a time when Reefton people are in the thick of the epidemic and under stress from spiralling living costs is a bad idea, Neil says.
“It’s a real blow. People are reluctant to front up [with depression] as it is, and if you’re dealing with an intimate problem, elderly people especially won’t be comfortable talking to a TV screen and having an extra person in there with them as well.”
The co-founders of Groundswell admit they have not read the three waters legislation they are so vehemently against.
[…]
Groundswell co-founders Laurie Paterson and Bryce McKenzie also said they haven't read the proposed legislation. Paterson says, nonetheless, they're opposed to what's on the table.
Yup, same attitude and response from ‘critics’ of Three Waters roaming free here on TS. They refuse to engage with the proposals, they choose to close off their minds, and they self-justify this by pointing at all sorts of things being thrown around in the MSM and by the opposition parties, i.e. pointing at ‘hidden agendas’, alleged ‘secrecy’ and ‘dishonesty’, ‘stealth’, et cetera. They will never have to find out how good or bad the reforms might be (very bad, of course) and they simply stick their fingers in their ears. But at the end of the day it is always the same as from the outset: prejudice, pure & perfect prejudice. However, never say this to those people because they’ll flip their lid in a fit of incongruence rage.
Co-governance is a thorny one. Take the Canterbury Regional Council (Ngāi Tahu Representation Bill) currently going through parliament. To my mind Ngāi Tahu getting to appoint two representatives to an elected board is undemocratic.
But of course, the same people vigorously race baiting over this co-governance arrangement were more than happy in 2010 when National dumped the elected councillors and replaced them with commissioners to enable the pillaging and theft of Canterbury's water resources on behalf of corporate dairy interests.
So the opposition to Ngāi Tahu getting two representatives isn't so much a principled defense of democracy as being aggrieved the wrong people are getting a nice salary for life.
Personally, I strongly doubt the Ngāi Tahu representatives will prove to be any better guardians of the waters of Canterbury than some entitled cocky whose family arrived on the Charlotte Jane in 1850. The squabble is really over which bunch of entitled twots get to make money out of the commons that is water. To that extent, I oppose co-governance – to my mind, greed is colour and race blind and the only way to really keep an eye on these wannabe rentiers for life and keep them in check is full participatory democracy.
Ngai Tahu are one of (if not) the biggest owners of dairy farms in Canterbury. If any other sector were given 2 seats on ECAN it would be called a Conflict of Interest.
If you’re referring to royalties, I’ve seen arguments these could have advantages over the non-pricing structure currently in place for drinking water. I fail to see, at present, that this is a get-rich-quick scheme for anybody, but greed is not in my nature.
The only consistent prejudice I see on display here is the one that says anything to do with white people is to be discounted, deplored and derided at every opportunity.
According to Witi Ihimaera it is a Maori Universe after all.
It’s amusing that a farmer from Gore has taken a position opposing the 3 Waters reforms.
Gore has a combined sewage / stormwater system. A throwback from the 19th century and rather expensive to fix. It’s also got a shrinking ratepayer (dying) ratepayer base. Without the socialisation of costs that 3 Waters will bring Gore will probably cease to exist as the rates required will be unsustainable.
A combined sewer-stormwater system is a modern septic outrage.
WTF is that Council doing?
Auckland Council's Stormwater team and Watercare only finished separating out flows from the whole of the Ponsonby-Herne Bay-Freemans Bay-Wynyard Quarter catchment last year. Including a 3.3metre diameter stormwater line 600 metres long.
They still have 2 years to go doing the Central Interceptor project that separates most of the previously joined system. That's over $1b of work in that one alone.
Well they’ve got a seriously good Art Gallery… But they are thinking about it and I think they will start in a few years, it’ll probably take 20 years at what they can afford. If there’s a poster child for 3 Water it’s Gore Anywhere else would have been amalgamated three reforms ago
But as you’ve pointed out Auckland isn’t too flash in this regard, and at a much larger and more public scale. This gets hard to fix and most TAs don’t have Aucklands scale and resources
In much / most of Gore and Mataura there is only one pipe for sewage and stormwater. When it rains the lot goes into the shit ponds which discharge into the river. Hasn’t been ideal practice since about 1900.
My reckons is there is no further polling damage 3-Waters can do to the government. The legislation will be implemented without fuss. But it will take over a decade to notice much difference.
The really big difference is the state fresh water regulator enforcing the National Fresh Water Drinking Standards, upon water systems from lazy shitty little farmer-owned councils who didn't give a damn for decades.
My only reservations about three waters is water governance is being consolidated into a nice ripe target for privatisation by a future National government (which will inevitably involve a grubby little cronyist deal with corporate Iwi that'll entrench rentier lifestyles for all those lucky enough to be at the table when the divvy up is done) and a real sadness that it signals a complete and utter failure of local democracy.
I would have preferred the government had spent a few hundred million on a local democracy revival project before declaring them all incompetent.
"My reckons is there is no further polling damage 3-Waters can do to the government."
I respectfully disagree. There are tens of thousands of people invested in privately owned rural schemes (plus the people in the hundred or so rural council owned schemes) who will suddenly find the schemes they have paid for they no longer control. There is the ongoing and deep set resentment across local government towards central government at the perceived loss of control over ratepayers assets. and at the way the process has been undertaken. And then there's the commitment of both National and Act to overturn the entire structure.
"But it will take over a decade to notice much difference."
Certainly there will be no benefit before the next election, and that is a huge problem, because over the next year the media will be full of reports of the cost of establishing the entities. This is a big play by Labour, and it will be interesting to see how the politics plays out.
"I'm sure there are indeed several thousand on private water systems, but seriously Labour never had them to start with."
I have a friend who lives on a lifestyle block near Masterton. He's one of the many rural people who is part of a private scheme, and he voted for Labour in Wairarapa in 2020, along with significant others that saw the seat go red. He's one of many that will vote blue in 2023 due significantly because of 3Waters. That will play out across provincial NZ, IMHO.
When I was in a private developers scheme, I heaved a sigh of relief when the local council took over that ongoing liability, even though it cost a considerable sum at the time, to get the scheme connected to the public one.
Many of the smaller council's in particular, should be relieved that the costs will now be shared over a much wider area.
Economies of scale set against increased bureaucracy, larger and disparate areas of activity, promised improvement of both delivery and standard and thousands more employed.
Simply that the cost and efficiency of the water and waste water plants per user, improved, when going from about a hundred houses, in the private scheme, to being shared amongst over 8000.
Originally there was no water or sewage plant, except for the development.
Which of course was paid for by buyers, including myself, in the subdivision.
We would have had to pay all the ongoing costs ourselves of the rather expensive to run water and wastewater scheme split amongst a hundred households.
Noting that unit costs drop as plant gets bigger.
The rest of the town was on tank and septic tank.
Later the rest of the town was reticulated to the extended private scheme. Both water and wastewater supply.
Further down the track this was inadequate, as the town grew, and a new scheme was built. Every section paid a levy for the new scheme and ongoing running costs became part of rates.
Much cheaper per household than the original scheme. And saving a nice bit of coast from leaking septic tanks.
You are using terms you apparently dont understand….yes your (future) personal expense was reduced because it was met by a larger group whos future expense was increased…this is contrary to both what is promised by 3 Waters and economy of scale.
Rates which are less than the ongoing costs per household, if the scheme wasn't done.
Originally non reticulated households, also benifited from the initial work and plant built and paid for by the houses in the private scheme, so if there was any cross subsidy, it was from those of us who paid for the private scheme at the start.
Everyone gained from the new scheme. At reduced ongoing cost per household.
@pat, we had a similar situation in our rural community.
However, in this case the local government solution was to require the developer to provide a considerably bigger upgrade for wastewater treatment than his resource consent number of properties warranted.
Once in place, other rural land was rezoned, and the council charged those developments to connect to the now upgraded system.
Other rural land in the area with Grade I soil, has followed with residential zoning, partly justified by the access to the waste water system which retains excess capacity.
A particularly pernicious way of rezoning rural land. In this case there are other factors that make this rezoning not as bad a full greenfields development but it does indicate the lack of transparency.
I have no idea what is grade 1 soil but guess it is productive(?)
However designated land use is imo likely the only effective way of addressing the multitude of issues we face though it would need to be considered in a holistic manner…and it would be deeply unpopular.
When it comes to water infrastructure the problems and solutions remain the same regardless of governance form, management style or political persuasion.
@pat. Yes, Class I soils are productive. There are/were issues with the soil classifications maps that could be up to 5km out in some places. That might have been resolved.
However, the rural land here was not only zoned Class I, it was historically and currently used for food production.
The alternate reasons why this development is not as bad as it could be. There is a geological (topographical) limit to residential expansion, where the sprawl is contained. The community has a long history – pre treaty, and so is well serviced in terms of services and recreational community assets that have built up over time. There is remnants of a train station, with a working rail line. If passenger trains were reinstated to this line, residents would have a viable alternative to car travel.
In my opinion, this is a significantly different situation to other rural developments that have been permitted without connection to existing communities or public transport links.
Many rural communities have historically survived and thrived without the 'benefit' of the latest infrastructure, however the environment (in both senses) has changed….and not for the better.
As one commenter noted a few days ago our population is widely dispersed and many of our communities small and distant from large scale infrastructure removing the option of consolidation….all of these will still require access to potable water, and to meet the standards for waste….and no one has yet addressed the question of contamination of water supplies be it nitrates, PFOS or whatever other contamination we discover that is both extremely difficult and expensive to remove and is historical.
Much has yet to be determined…there are areas where the new entities will have an impact on private schemes and there is also concurrent reform with Taumata Arowai
Gee I wouldn’t go that far. We know enough to determine the scheme is inferior to alternatives.
But look I’ll be generous and save you some time. When you said “Private schemes are outside the Three Waters reforms” you obviously weren’t aware of this:
Acquisition and Vesting of Private 3-waters Schemes Policy
2.2.1 PRIVATE/SMALL DRINKING WATER SCHEME OPERATORS CAN EXPECT TO SEE:
· Increased and immediate investment requirement in backflow prevention.
· Increased monitoring of water schemes and treatment to meet DWSNZ.
· Requirement to develop and administer a drinking water safety plan and a source water risk management plan (catchment).
· Increased costs of source water quality monitoring and testing.
· Increased personal liability to directors with heavy fines for incidences, up to and including imprisonment.
2.2.2 PRIVATE/SMALL WASTEWATER AND STORMWATER SCHEME OPERATORS CAN EXPECT NEW LAWS EMPOWERING TAUMATA AROWAI TO:
· Compile information about wastewater and stormwater networks in a national public database:
· Set environmental performance measures, which wastewater and stormwater operators will have to report against annually:
· Publish an annual report on the environmental performance of wastewater and stormwater networks and their compliance with applicable regulatory requirements (such as resource consents): · Identify and promote national good practice for the design and management of wastewater and stormwater networks.
I don't know how you managed to make the html in that comment so complicated, but I've stripped it out and made it more readable. It's good practice to put links in the clear especially if they are to PDFs. People need to see what they are clicking on.
I don’t have time to rebut this properly. Unfortunately, and unsurprisingly, you have not clarified anything, not cleared up the confusion but only added to it.
Clearly, you have an anti-Three Waters Reforms agenda. You quote some stuff to prove something but it isn’t clear what that is except to bolster your agenda of negativity.
Just briefly, from your linked PDF:
3-waters Reform – Governance, administration and operation of Council 3-waters networks are likely to be transferred to new regional entities from 1 July 2024 (subject to legislation).
…
Until the full enactment of 3-waters reforms underway, Council is the operational and controlling authority responsible for the supply, treatment, reticulation/conveyance and discharge of public 3-waters services (excluding private networks) within the District. [my italics]
Your PDF also states:
Check the Department of Internal Affairs Three Water Review1 for updates.
Which means that you can go there and find out that private schemes are outside the Three Waters reform, as I correctly stated before. Unless you can find more recent info that contradicts this, e.g. because Government has done a U-turn.
So you are given a list of requirements proposed for private schemes and you double down! Your comment about private schemes being “outside the Three Waters reforms” was incorrect.
On the wider issue of 3Waters, I suggest you read the article by Sandra Coney in the Herald about the Waitakete Ranges.
[Link required. Don’t expect others to do the donkey work for you. And you have to explain why and how the NZH article is relevant to the discussion thread about Three Waters Reform and private schemes, not just point to it and say ‘read it’ – Incognito]
I suggest that when you make a suggestion for somebody to read something you include a link and spell names correctly. And if it is in the NZH then it better be not behind the pay-wall or it could be conceived as a troll comment by you – the onus is on you to avoid wasting other people’s time and not put them on wild goose chases through Google, the internet, and then find a brick wall and a hard stop when the article is finally found. I hope for your sake that this is not the case because you will receive a Mod note soon.
Since you seem be adamant on heaping confusion on the matter at hand rather than helping to clarify things I’ve made some time to do some digging.
Can you handle a one-page Summary Fact Sheet on Three Waters Reform – Rural water supplies? Sure you can; you handled the 18-page QLDC policy no sweat.
Under the reforms, only council-owned assets necessary for the delivery of drinking water, wastewater or stormwater services will be transferred to the new water service delivery entities. Privately owned supplies or people who supply their own water for their house will not be impacted.
There are a range of existing service delivery arrangements between councils and community/rural schemes. These will be worked through with all parties during the transition period. This will ensure services continue with appropriate agreements in place with the new entities – for example, private community operated services that require technical assistance.
And
Only council-owned assets necessary for the delivery of three waters services will be transferred to the new entities. Privately owned schemes and supplies will not be transferred.
And
The recently passed Water Services Act will require all drinking water suppliers, other than domestic self-suppliers, to provide safe drinking water and meet drinking water standards. This is to ensure all communities receive safe drinking water, no matter where they live or who supplies this service.
Private drinking water suppliers currently registered under the Health Act will have a year to comply under the Water Services Bill – this includes all public supplies and some large networked rural supplies. Suppliers that are not currently registered under the Health Act will have four years to register with Taumata Arowai (the new water regulator); and seven years to comply.
The NZH article is relevant to the wider discussion about 3Waters and it’s merits. It’s worth purchasing a copy for.
[So, still no link to the NZH article and still no explanation why and how it is relevant to the discussion here. And now you suggest I and other readers here should pay and purchase a copy!? Because it’s worth it, in your opinion, without explaining why and how!?
The link I requested was to the NZH article. But you know that.
However, you provided the same link to the QLDC policy draft again, for the third time, after extensively and selectively quoting irrelevant stuff. I referred to it in my reply @ 11 June 2022 at 2:15 pm and I’ve quoted from it myself. But you know that.
It is unclear and ambiguous to refer to the “original post” without being more specific about which exact comment you mean. When I refer to the OP I refer to the blog/article/piece written by the Author, not to the beginning of a discussion thread or sub-thread. In any case, it is not clear what you’re referring to and this is OM!?
So, you’re a disingenuous troll here, baiting, diverting, obfuscating and you’re wasting Moderator time. Take a week off – Incognito]
"Can you handle a one-page Summary Fact Sheet on Three Waters Reform – Rural water supplies? "
And then you go on to provide a link about transfer of ownership. Your claim was "Private schemes are outside the Three Waters reforms." and yet your own reference states:
"Private drinking water suppliers currently registered under the Health Act will have a year to comply under the Water Services Bill – this includes all public supplies and some large networked rural supplies."
If the scheme has to comply with any new regulations under 3Waters, it is simply false to suggest the scheme is ‘outside’ of the reforms.
And in anticipation that you will try to claim your comment was about 'ownership', the comment you were replying to when you made your claim, and my subsequent comments, have referred to 'control' not 'ownership'.
Nope, neither control nor ownership are transferred out of and away from private schemes. You’re confusing compliance with the new regulations and regulatory framework with loss of control, which is bot inaccurate and incorrect and amounts to fearmongering. The same fearmongering and propaganda as we might expect from some rural quarters with hysterical outburst and frankly ridiculous claims such as "They're stealing our water!", FFS. https://www.ruralnewsgroup.co.nz/rural-news/rural-general-news/they-re-stealing-our-water
To have something stolen from you, you have to own it in the first place. Some rural folk seem to think that they own the commons and because they have been free to use it and waste it they own it, for all intents & purposes. Now, who are the real thieves here?
By all accounts you’re quite intelligent, yet you don’t do anything to help clearing up confusion. Rather, you antagonise and obfuscate. The most obvious conclusion is that you have a deliberate agenda in stalling Three Waters Reform as much as possible and ideally make it fail.
The Three Waters Reforms are complex. This has meant there is some confusion about the reform proposals. The following slides discuss some common misconceptions or myths about the three waters service delivery reforms.
Question: Will the Three Waters Reforms take private water supplies / take back water allocations
Answer: No. The Three Waters Reforms aim to reform council-owned services only. This discussion is not about taking over operation of privately-owned supplies. However, the Government is working with a Rural Supplies Technical Working Group to understand how the proposed entities may support private supplies who currently receive assistance from councils.
The proposed entities will continue to operate within the resource management system – the Three Waters Reforms will not alter resource consents, allocations, or address ownership of freshwater. This is subject to work of the Ministry for the Environment.
I cannot make it any clearer for you or for anybody else. To draw conclusions that are in direct contradiction with the information provided is a sure sign of being disingenuous and not commenting & debating here in good faith. This is the very strong impression you create time after time.
There is a full on white panic going on in certain parts of the country right now, assiduously dog whistled by an army of GOP adjacent racists and/or culture warriors like Laurie Paterson and in the MSM by an army of right wing opinionistas.
That this is a race based backlash can be discerned from the targets – co-governance, smearing Mahuta and attacking Poto Williams, racist fear mongering over three waters, the vigorously pumped conspiracy theories from He Puapua to white paranoia about rigging elections (see National MP David Bennett) to far out conspiracy theories like the great replacement theory which is increasingly being mainstreamed on the NZ right and popping up in comments sections of the likes of the NZ Herald.
But it's not about race, it's about privatisation….
The council-iwi working group, on which Smith was a member, had recommended an entrenched clause to stop the water assets' privatisation. The sale or transfer of even a single pipe would require the agreement of at least 75 percent of all MPs.
[…]
Infrastructure Minister Grant Robertson called on opposition parties to "step up" if they believed in public ownership. "We've heard certainly from the National Party that they've been throughout this process concerned about the loss of ownership in communities," he said. "Now they can step up and say 'we will agree that these assets won't be sold'."
But it's understood the National Party did not agree to support the entrenched clause, protecting against privatisation – it is ironic for Jason Smith that it is the party he has just joined that has effectively blocked the requirement for a super-majority.
Got it in one Sanctuary. And its percolating through centrist communities too. If you confront them – as I have with a few family members – they descend into fits of outrage because it's not racism. Oh yeah.
I have been following stories on the trip to England by Prince Harry and Meghan Markle. There it is again. Racism in all its glory. Hatred and vitriol abounded in subtle and less subtle guises. They are dammed if they do and damned if they don't. I can't even begin to imagine the uproar if it had been their little boy, Archie who played up on the balcony and elsewhere.
It will be understandable if they never return to racist Britain.
It will be understandable if they never return to racist Britain.
I'm sure Britain will be ecstatic.
Meanwhile they're living in considerably-more-racist USA.
Really, you care what the H&M roadshow says or does? Talk about the pinnacle of irrelevance. At least the R Family (privileged though they may be) actually work [truly, you couldn't pay me to do their jobs, be in that goldfish bowl, and live a life in the public eye]
I had sympathy for H&M when they wanted to ditch it all; but the sympathy waned rapidly when it was apparent that they actually wanted to live like A-list celebrities, and were perfectly prepared to sacrifice their precious privacy at the altar of their new god, Netflix.
Actually I was picking up on Sanctuary @3.4 and talking about racism Belladonna. The example I gave is just the latest.
Don't care what you may think I care or don't care about, or for that matter what you may care or not care about. Don't do Netflix and don't follow the pair's antics in the US so don't know what you're talking about. And just so as you get the message I don't care either. 😈
I care about racism and other forms of destructive prejudice. I don't care about the circumstance or past mistakes of the individual/individuals who happen to be the targets.
A less judgemental approach to commenters based on… zero knowledge of their backgrounds or the extent of their "research" endeavours into matters that happen to be of interest to them would be helpful. You might find the favour being returned.
Don't care what you may think I care or don't care about, or for that matter what you may care or not care about. Don't do Netflix and don't follow the pair's antics in the US so don't know what you're talking about. And just so as you get the message I don't care either.
It's pretty obvious that you've done little or no research.
And I suggest a mirror, when you're talking about "less judgemental approach"
Apart from the people who drafted it, I doubt even the minister has read the whole thing. It would be more to the point to ask if they'd read the summary of the Bill and the discussion document.
the National Party is still perceived by New Zealanders as most capable of managing 4 of the top-5 issues, a significant shift compared to June 2021, when Labour was seen as most capable of managing 19 of the 20 issues.
The top five issues are:
1. Inflation/cost of living.
2. Housing/price of housing.
3. Healthcare/hospitals.
4. Petrol prices/fuel.
5. Crime/law and order.
National should be delighted with the attention Labour is giving 3 Waters.
I don't think they care about reelection at this point. I think the cabinet of mediocrity is simply hoping it gets as many of its social engineering reforms through by mid 2023 as possible.
They are doubling and trippling down on everything that makes them unpopular and have abandoned anything remotely popular.
People voted labour because they thought they might do something about unaffordable housing, unaffordable rents, living costs, mental health, welfare ,health, tax reforms and in 2017 Jacinda even said she supported drug reform.
Instead all those problems are worse and labour is worrying about Geoffrey Palmer esque pie in the sky constitutional reforms and social engineering.
Tens of thousands wait on social housing lists and labour won't increase the percentage of social housing in total supply better to just copy national and throw them in costly motels rather than build state housing which is revenue asset for the govt but nevermind.
Private Rentals are impossible to find but theres a hundred thousand empty houses in NZ the govt just shrugs. Instead of developing land and building houses we give land to developers to sell extremely overpriced two bedroom boxes that sit empty.
Cost of living is out of control and our supermarket duopoly greed is hurting our people and a war with them would be extremely popular, the govt spends months saying it'll do something major doesn't even do the bare minimum. Another failed opportunity
Instead of spending loads on training new nurses and doctors for free we spend loads on centralizing healthcare bureaucracy. While dying people sit in beds in our ers.
Drops a CGT as soon as they start polling highly after March 15. wasted opportunity
Pm whose popularity, like way Trudeau would have gotten weed reform Says she supports drug reform in 2017, the party doesn't wrote a coherent drug policy, pm refuses to say she supports drug reform Incase it costs her a single vote but will support euthanasia, the result is pretty much 50/50 and immediately govt rules out any reform desire weed reform being popular with half the country. Another cynical wasted opportunity and if you look at the weed industries around the world, one that is leaving NZ behind. Failure to get any drug reform from this govt is shameful.
Instead of things on housing,cost of living , health, things people actually vote labour for we get hate speech laws, woke extremists running an anti terrorist unit, 3 waters, centralization, more hotels, a broadcast merger, co-govt constitutional reforms and a few crumbs like wage rises, benefit rises, bland climate reforms, weak workers rights reforms and more and more unaffordable empty box apartments.
Yippie.
Then there's the off touted COVID response , the one praised for not clogging up our healthcare system…. Except…… ambulances are so busy they aren't taking calls heart attacks have 1/4 survival rate, hospitals are chocker full and ambos are just dropping patients to emergency bay and picking which ones get treated and which ones don't…. Boy seems like we just postponed the health crisis by two years and didn't do anything with the two extra years to increase health care capacity.
Thank God for vaccinations because otherwise we really would be upshit creek. Which is a credit to the govt but not increasing capacity is a discredit.
In previous elections labour used to say we'd love to do this or that if only we had a majority. Now we know they what they will do with a majority. Constitutional reforms rather than economic or housing reforms. Yay!
I hope labour wins a third term.
Not because I think they'll do anything, they ruled out anything that would get people excited, I hope labour wins a third term cos national and act would be horrifically bad for many of my friends and families living standards. Labour just won't make it much worse.
But if labour loses I hope it's a nat/nzf /act govt or nat/Maori/act govt cos those two centerist parties would stop act and national reeking too much ruthanasia on the poor.
But if labour loses I hope it's a nat/nzf /act govt or nat/Maori/act govt cos those two centerist parties would stop act and national reeking too much ruthanasia on the poor.
Hope you're right, remembering that Richarsdon was a National party MP, finding her natural home (the Association of Consumers and Taxpayers NZ party, founded by Douglas and Quigley), only after she departed Parliament.
Yes Ross, it is always easier to sit on one side throwing rocks into the kitchen.
Being able to produce change in an unstable world is harder. You did not mention 3 huge problems. Covid War Climate Change.
All we hear from National is "We could do it better and cheaper"
Righto!! Why do you think that would be? You new boss says "He would do the same"
"He would spend the same" So what exactly would change….. Tax cuts?? How did that work for 90% of us???
Oh I gedditt!! You would have a Big Daddy in charge.!! Not a "Girl"
Guess what?? He needs to do more homework. This is not a company There is a big bad world out there having an effect on us. We can't ignore that for political convenience. Most countries are struggling.
Don't forget when Labour were in opposition, they threw plenty of rocks and were going to fix the homeless issue, child poverty etc. and Kiwi build 10k houses a year, fix the state house wait list and hospital wait lists. All oppositions can promise the world as they don't have to deliver.
How is that going now that they have been in government for nearly five years?
"European Parliament lawmakers on Wednesday voted to support an effective EU ban on the sale of new petrol and diesel cars from 2035, rejecting attempts to weaken the proposal to speed Europe's shift to electric vehicles."
Germany getting people out of their cars. But they’ve got a proper train set.
. Millions of Germans are expected to take advantage of a summer of cheaper travel from next month under government plans to boost public transport use and give financial relief to consumers facing a cost of living crisis.
A €9-a-month ticket scheme is to be introduced from 1 June allowing travel on all modes of city and regional transport. The ticket will apply nationwide and will be available for three months until the end of August.
[…]
The cost of the ticket is a fraction of the normal cost of travel, amounting to around a sixth of the price of the cheapest monthly ticket available for Berlin’s central zones.
Is everyone comfortable that around 20 people are dieing from Covid 19 related illness each day? That' over 100 deaths per week and the way its going looks odds for over 5,000 by years end. The business lobby won and the old, infirm and (probably) poor lost. I'll still vote Labour but when backbone was needed they didn't stand up for their people – it's a sore point for me and whilst I think that overall Covid was handled really well if we get to the next election with 10,000 dead from Covid it will be hard to use the handling of the pandemic as a reason to vote Labour. .
I don't think anyone is "comfortable about it". Certainly still very concerned about the vulnerable around me.
Once omicron was in the country, and everyone that could, or would be, was vaccinated, it is hard to say what else could be done. It is doubtful if enough people would have supported further lockdowns to make them effective. As we could see at the end of the last Auckland lockdown.
Even China's draconian lockdowns are leaking. With pretty dire results in areas with around 60% vaccination rates.
Keeping covid out until we had 95% vaccinated, has saved thousands of lives, compared with countries that didn't reach those levels before opening up.
Interesting interview Jamie McKay had with soil scientist, Doug Edmeades. Some main points:
1- Farmers need to realise urea isn't the best source of nitrogen, clover pasture is. Emades believes growing good clover pasture has become a lost art.
Yeah, but urea gets a hell of a fast result even though much is lost into the atmosphere. And…I hate clover pasture, as anyone who has lifted and stacked clover hay bales will attest to.
2- Soil does not produce nutrients, so fertiliser is a must. In the 80s when many farmers cut back on fertiliser, those who continued fertilising came out of the then farming slump in a much better position. When you use less fertiliser you need to reduce your stock numbers.
3- Farmers use too much phosphate. That's a problem in NZ. I used bat guano for a few years. The phosphate reading when taken was off the charts. In alternative medicine, excessive phosphate is considered a cause for cancer and other diseases.
Now for the contentious issue – Methane .
Quote:
''Yes, ruminants produce CH4. Yes it is a greenhouse gas. Yes it may be possible to come up with interventions to reduce emissions from the animal.
BUT! Let me explain.
Methane is short-lived in the atmosphere. It hangs around for about 10 years before it is converted to CO2. For every unit of carbon the animal emits as CH4 it must ingest the same amount of carbon from its plant-based feed source, which, remember, comes initially from the CO2 in the atmosphere.
From the animals perspective every bit of carbon it emits as methane it mopped up as carbon in its feed. The animal is both the source of the carbon in methane and it is also the sink for the equivalent amount of carbon in CO2. In this sense the carbon-methane cycle: methane-to-CO2-to-forage-plants-to-animals-to-methane, is a closed cycle.''
Dr Doug Edmeades, MscHons, ONZM (Services to Agriculture), is an independent soil scientist based in Hamilton. He welcomes feedback – [email protected]
In Vino has replied yesterday to some of these similar points:
''Blade – I read that crap in the local café. Utter baloney – the guy lies about methane, claims a closed system when much of his 'disappearing methane' converts to carbon dioxide, and peddles a load of wishful garbage.
He claims that 'methane is gone in ten years.' If I remember correctly, that approximate figure is its half-life. And what is the point if farmers are replenishing it with a new full amount every year? No mention of methane being up to 60 times worse that CO2 as a heat-retaining gas.''
One-eyed, wishful drivel.
My point here is, and has always been, we don't see enough Edmeades in the media because they have issues with some mainstream narratives on climate change.
Edmeades is a major drag on progress here in New Zealand.
You're such a wag, Blade, waving your ineptly-baited hooks around here on TS. You do get nibbles, but to those watching, you're a subtle as, well, Edmeades himself.
The methane excuse is utter nonsense. The hydroxyl argument is a red herring (note the continued fishing theme). In Vino said,
"One-eyed, wishful drivel."
Pretty fair comment, that.
This, from you:
"I hate clover pasture, as anyone who has lifted and stacked clover hay bales will attest to."
Classic, though poorly expressed, trolling clap-trap. Red meat stuff. Carelessly expressed though – "anyone who has lifted and stacked clover hay bales" won't in fact, attest that you hate clover pasture.
You might like to drop Edmeades a line yourself:-) and ask him why, if livestock methane is carbon-neutral and nothing to worry about, are farmers and their representatives etc. gleefully accepting the millions of dollars from the Government to research … methane reduction?
I don't usually respond to you, Robert, because I consider you a soundbite karen. But as you have extended yourself let's have looksee.
''Edmeades is a major drag on progress here in New Zealand.''
Based on what? Your ideology?
''You're such a wag, Blade, waving your ineptly-baited hooks around here on TS. You do get nibbles, but to those watching, you're a subtle as, well, Edmeades himself.''
I put this up for debate because it is current in the media; it stops the blog becoming an echo chamber and as I'm continually considered nuts because I don't believe in manmade climate change shouldn't I be able to defend myself? Hooks and nibbles is more to do with your mind set.
"I hate clover pasture, as anyone who has lifted and stacked clover hay bales will attest to." Classic, though poorly expressed, trolling clap-trap.
In fact it was side comment as to the extreme weight of clover bales. Some can come in at 70-80kgs wet. I can’t see you hacking that work, Robert. Again your unusual mind set on display.
''Red meat stuff.''
We can't have that can we, Robert. Although the world loves our pasture fed red meat.
''You might like to drop Edmeades a line yourself:-) ''
Why don't you drop him a line? When you don't get a reply you may like to ask yourself why?
Sorry, Blade, but you have maxed out again. I think I did a lot more hay-bale lifting that you ever did. Through all my Uni years it was my summer holiday job. 3 of us running one truck plus a loader (good boss back then – we shared driving once every 3 loads of 120 bales, but at the barn we all had to stack like hell..
My one little concession to capitalism: we were paid per bale moved. We were efficient. The few times we saw guys being paid by the hour, they were so slow that we felt nothing but contempt.
So yes – reward productivity.
Clover bales were lovely when properly dried. They hurt your thighs much less! Heavier when wet, and more likely to cook and catch alight if stacked in a barn too wet.
I picked up bales each summer starting 1965 til 1970. I had hoped it would make me a muscleman, but it just made me skinny and wiry with little, bumpy arm muscles. And it made me very fit, but I have slowly worked that off.
Edmeades as I see it does not prove a closed system for farming. His argument that farms absorb as much carbon dioxide as they produce does not counter the carbon dioxide produced as the methane magically disappears. Nor does he seem bothered about the seriously more damaging effect of methane itself.
We need to reduce methane urgently, not rabbit on about theoretically closed systems.. Edmeades appears to be aiding an interested status quo party to my mind.
Great story. I only did two seasons. And yes, I, like you, only put on arm muscle. But I was lean and mean…and bloody fit. I also saw 3 people walk off the job because they couldn't hack it. Lord knows how many would walk off the job nowadays.
Only just got through my first week. Several guys dropped out after a day or so.. Including a police trainee.
Maybe we were still under the effects that the Great Depression had on our parents… There are still plenty of good young guys (Covid has just forced my retirement from Secondary School Relief Teaching) and there are also heaps of tough-looking young guys that would not hack it.
More worrying – there are also disaffected young guys who would put that kind of effort in for a gang, but not for a standard job.
Low wage economy makes hard work a sucker's game nowadays?
And how did we end up with an unproductive, low-wage economy?
I blame Roger Douglas. I heard him say on the radio in early days that we must do all his reforms, but NOT become a low-wage economy.
Every reform he did weakened unions, and promoted a low-wage economy.
A reply will either show him to be incompetent, or it will as Earle Kirton was fond of saying, ''be good night nurse'' for some experts on this thread.
I'm teaching you nothing. Incognito laid down the kaupapa and suggested we follow it. That's what I'm doing and from my perspective KJT isn't.
You also called me a troll. You will need to back that up and show me where I'm trolling. And no, posting articles that aren't kosher from a Leftie perspective is not trolling in my opinion.
The good news for you is if I'm not booted off before hand , I will be gone for good after the next election. This will be no place for a Rightie to ply his trade. So grit ya teeth. Time will fly… and before you know it Luxon will be pontificating on the podium about how National is going to make NZ great again.
This is not the case with methane. The methane-carbon mop is built in. The animal is both the source and the sink – you cannot have one without the other. The animal is CH₄-carbon neutral.
Seems Dr Edmeades' ONZM award (2013) for Services to Agriculture was well-earned.
Increase in atmospheric methane set another record during 2021
[7 April 2022]
NOAA’s preliminary analysis showed the annual increase in atmospheric methane during 2021 was 17 parts per billion (ppb), the largest annual increase recorded since systematic measurements began in 1983. The increase during 2020 was 15.3 ppb. Atmospheric methane levels averaged 1,895.7 ppb during 2021, or around 162% greater than pre-industrial levels. From NOAA’s observations, scientists estimate global methane emissions in 2021 are 15% higher than the 1984-2006 period.
How necessary and feasible are reductions of methane emissions from livestock to support stringent temperature goals? [27 Sept 2021]
Most fundamentally though, none of the mitigation pathways and options discussed in our study will come to pass without targeted policies to address greenhouse gas emissions, reduce the global demand for emissions-intensive livestock products and provide for transitions of those most affected by the necessary transformative changes. The significant potential for the reduction of livestock CH₄ emissions can only be realized if agriculture, and livestock systems in particular, become part of mainstream climate policies, while recognizing their unique and multiple interacting social, cultural and environmental functions.
And what Robert Guyton wrote @8.1. Sand still not bothering you? What’s your secret?
We may have too many cattle beasts but they are not the main cause of increasing atmospheric methane, indeed those studying it are struggling to account for it.
There is a real complex ecosystem there,which is difficult to model,With coastal wetlands they do not produce so much CH4 due to SO2 from the sea (acid rain) from algae.
Poission is right. Wetlands will be the saving of us (those of us who live in regions where wetlands were, pre-agriculture, vast wetlands – put them back)!!
Not ban wetlands; fens, bogs, swamps and mires – make more of them!!
Many more. The benefits are enormous! Food production from wetlands is something that was once well known, but has been forgotten, mainly, til now. Eels, crayfish, mussels and more, not counting plants (watercress etc.
Best thing though, the filtering, cleansing, water-slowing effects of wetlands. Uncounted savings to all regions, subject to flooding.
With a 500b$ foreign liability,and a country that is fiscally restrained destocking of Bovine /ovine biomass needs to be matched by the removal of equivalent human biomass from NZ.
No welfare state,15-20% mortgages,councillors reduced to minimum hourly rate for meetings only,a reduction in MP'S a population of around 1990 or less.
Curbing methane emissions: How five industries can counter a major climate threat [23 Sept 2021]
Companies can take three no-regrets actions to begin reducing methane emissions Action 2: Support sustainable consumption. Stakeholders could develop mechanisms to differentiate assets and score products based on their methane footprints. If every kilogram of rice, million British thermal units (MMBtu) of natural gas, ton of steel, pound of meat, barrel of oil, and ton of coal came with a methane-intensity label, the market signals could support a more orderly decarbonization transition. With this, retailers and consumers could make more informed purchasing decisions, producers could define new foundations for competitive advantage, and investors could better understand portfolio risk.
Or we can support unsustainable consumption – it's a 'free' choice.
New analysis shows microbial sources fueling rise of atmospheric methane [17 June 2021]
The sudden and sustained rise in atmospheric levels of the potent greenhouse gas methane since 2007 has posed one of the most significant and pressing questions in climate research: Where is it coming from?
Fossil fuel emissions? Biological sources? A diminished capacity by the atmosphere to break down methane? A climate tipping point?
…
Lan said the data pointed to microbial sources, such as natural wetlands, shallow lakes and rivers, and human-managed sources like livestock, landfills, rice paddies, and wastewater treatment.
Quantifying fossil fuel methane emissions using observations of atmospheric ethane and an uncertain emission ratio [25 March 2022]
Using the joint methane–ethane inverse model, we estimate annual mean UK methane emissions of approximately 0.27 (95 % uncertainty interval 0.26–0.29) Tg yr−1 from fossil fuel sources and 2.06 (1.99–2.15) Tg yr−1 from non-fossil fuel sources, during the period 2015–2019. https://acp.copernicus.org/articles/22/3911/2022/acp-22-3911-2022.html
The half-life of methane in the atmosphere is around 9.1 years so NO it has not all disappeared in 10 years. Only half of it has converted into CO2 and water vapour – both also GHGs. After another 9.1 years another 1/4 of the original amount will have converted into CO2 and water vapour, and then another 9.1 years later 1/8 and so on. That is how half-lifes work.
My point here is, and has always been, we don't see enough Edmeades in the media because they have issues with some mainstream narratives on climate change.
The main point is that Edmeades represents about 2.5% of scientific opinion on the matter. The jury is well out against him and for good reason. There are numerous papers and reports that show that the Methane cycle is out of balance – largely caused by increased numbers of agricultural livestock. A fair summary is here:
A 2006 UN FAO report reported that livestock generate more greenhouse gases as measured in CO2 equivalents than the entire transportation sector. Livestock accounts for 9 percent of anthropogenic CO2, 65 percent of anthropogenic nitrous oxide and 37 percent of anthropogenic methane. A senior UN official and co-author of the report, Henning Steinfeld, said "Livestock are one of the most significant contributors to today's most serious environmental problems."[63]
Recent NASA research has confirmed the vital role of enteric fermentation in livestock on global warming. "We understand that other greenhouse gases apart from carbon dioxide are important for climate change today," said Gavin Schmidt, the lead author of the study and a researcher at NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies in New York City and Columbia University's Center for Climate Systems Research.[64] Other recent peer reviewed NASA research published in the journal Science has also indicated that the contribution of methane to global warming has been underestimated
''The half-life of methane in the atmosphere is around 9.1 years so NO it has not all disappeared in 10 years. Only half of it has converted into CO2 and water vapour – both also GHGs. After another 9.1 years another 1/4 of the original amount will have converted into CO2 and water vapour, and then another 9.1 years later 1/8 and so on. That is how half-lifes work.''
Could you please provide a link ? That's not how I understand things.
Half-life is defined as the amount of time it takes a given quantity to decrease to half of its initial value. The term is most commonly used in relation to atoms undergoing radioactive decay, but can be used to describe other types of decay, whether exponential or not.
Methane has a large effect but for a relatively brief period, having an estimated mean half-life of 9.1 years in the atmosphere,[21][page needed] whereas carbon dioxide is currently given an estimated mean lifetime of over 100 years.
The globally averaged concentration of methane in Earth's atmosphere increased by about 150% from 722 ± 25 ppb in 1750 to 1803.2 ± 1.2 ppb in 2011.[22] As of 2011, methane contributed radiative forcing of 0.48 ± 0.05 Wm−2,[23] or about 17% of the total radiative forcing from all of the long-lived and globally mixed greenhouse gases.[citation needed] According to NOAA, the atmospheric methane concentration has continued to increase since 2011 to an average global concentration of 1892.2 ppb as of December 2020.[24] The March 2019 peak was 1866.2 ppb, while the April 2020 peak was 1876.0 ppb, a .5% increase.[24]
If the concept of half-life will take you a few days to mull over, how long did it take you to mull over magnetism and paramagnetism? The mind boggles …
"Seabird colonies in New Zealand represent the rich diversity of coastal and pelagic seabirds, and are hotspots of intense nutrient and trace element cycling that provide examples of natural nutrient enrichment in terrestrial and stream ecosystems."
Quote from the first paragraph of the review conclusions.
We are talking high density farming with no biomass accumulation as in a forest.
Talking of fert , I have tried nearly everything. Yet I've narrowed things down to seaweed, lawn clippings and salt. Salt has all the minerals many soils need due to depletion. My crops go crazy.
Could you pass this on to Rob, Weka. Best it comes from you.
farmers can make their crops go crazy in various ways. Or they can ask nature for a helping hand and make their farms live in perpetuity once the fossil fuels and artificial inputs are gone.
Agree 100%. I'm an organic farmer. Although it must be remembered organic farming like vegan diets demands very careful management and in some cases isn't superior to conventional farming ( in my opinion). Beetroots for example have a higher nitrate content when grown conventionally. And that's what health nuts and body builders want – a high nitrate profile.
"Aotearoa New Zealand’s pastoral agriculture has been entirely based on this through the use of grass and clover pastures. Indeed until the expansion of dairying since the 1990s, pastoral and arable farming here used no nitrogen fertilisers – all the nitrogen came from clovers biologically fixing it. This is how organic agriculture that prohibits the use of nitrogen fertilisers works. It is therefore possible to farm without using any nitrogen fertiliser at all, in contrast to lithospheric fertilisers. Yes, compromises have to be made in the production system and there can be profit implications, but, Aotearoa New Zealand farmed for nearly its entire history without nitrogen fertilisers so it is possible to do so again."
I see it as akin to our use of PKE….we waste over a billion a year (IIRC) importing a product that is effectively unnecessary. A lot of our issues can be traced back to the need to service greatly inflated land values that force everyone to maximise every possible skerrick of production to satisfy the bank.
In my forest garden, I've included a wide range of leguminous plants; clovers, vetches, lupines, peas, beans, kakabeak, kowhai, tagasaste, laburnum, gleditsia, etc. to serve as nitrogen-collectors for the benefit of the other plants.
New Zealand farmers will return to plant-generated nitrates for their pastures before too long. Many already have.
I hope the warming environment doesn’t favour weevils.
I'm betting farmers don't choose "the need to service greatly inflated land values that force everyone to maximise every possible skerrick of production to satisfy the bank." either.
Well the capital gains farmers, which appears to be the majority of "farm investors" these days, chose it, in the expectations of high returns on selling the farms.
Like the “house hoarders”, capital gains, not the long term future of farming, is the goal.
In old terms – all up, 10 acres. When I say lawn clippings, that also includes other green matter as well. The place was liberally coated with rock dust about 15 years ago, not so much for the minerals, but for the paramagnetism.
''Unless your lawn is huge. What percentage of your farm is lawn? It would have to be considerable to be able to service 10 acres.''
About one third. Also boundary weeds and leaves etc. Bio Char is interesting. It is self perpetuating. But in some respects has been over sold. How Bio Char was used in the Amazon is still not completely understood.
''If you are using seawater, you'd need a considerable amount to cover 10 acres; how do you collect that much seawater.''
Fair questions. It's not viable for most farmers. Hence ocean solids are mixed with farm water and then spread. This dude in the clip is obviously a hobby farmer like me. Other clips will show how salt in used in bigger operation.
I buy. But for someone like you with plenty of prunings ( I would assume) you could make your own quite easily. Just remember to inoculate it.
"The place was liberally coated with rock dust about 15 years ago"
I didn't realise you are still applying it – why is that? Does your land need a top-up?
I only applied it once as stated above for the paramagnetism. People forget rock dust can take ages to be broke down by bacteria. It is not bio available for a long time. Hence by using salt I am not doubling up on minerals or applying rock dust in a different form each year.
Interesting to hear about your "Viktor Schauberger like tech." for vortexing your water. Those are pretty cool technologies – where did you get yours? What form does it take? It is possible to make your own – is that what you've done. Interesting stuff, Blade. I'd like to hear more!
I see..yes, I still buy it but not for my own use at present. We are soaking dust in water and using it in compost at a rellies place. He likes to grow herbs. I have told him he may be wasting his time with rock dust. He see's thing differently, time will tell. If I'm wrong, I learn something new.
I had mine made. It's a very simple affair. Something like the copper pipe in this link.
But before you doing anything like that. Do this. Buy one. The price is highway robbery. I bought a packet of them for $4, I think, a while back on Ali express. But with postage delay at present, it's better to pay the higher price.
Then you can experiment. Minimum four twists one way, four the other way. Then water a pot plant etc. Better still, drink a cup of the water and if liver isn't clean, or your body needs a clean out, you will be down with flu like symptoms.
Yet I've narrowed things down to seaweed, lawn clippings and salt…
My crops go crazy.
Blade, do you mean NaCl (sodium chloride) salt, or nitrogen, potassium, sulfur, and phosphorus (mineral) salts? Just asking because I would have thought NaCl (sea salt) couldn't be too good for your orange tree.
My small orange tree does alright with a few NPK granules springled along the drip line twice a year. NaCl would be much cheaper. Should I apply sparingly?
Don't want my orange crop to become completely deranged
No, ordinary unrefined sea salt. Trust me ,when I first heard of this I called bs. I was wrong. It's one of the most potent fertilisers I have ever used . See my links.
The ratio is three and a half litres of water to 1 teaspoon of salt, once per month.
Others use way more. Some less. I also sprinkle a handful of salt around a mature tree once a year.
The salt must be unrefined. The minerals in unrefined salt provides a degree of buffering. Refined salt is worthless and will kill your plants. It's not good for human health either. Makes a good weed killer though.
Even though I get great results, I was brought up on the notion salt is a poison for plants. I can't shake that mind conditioning. I still freak out when using salt on my plants. So I suggest you carry on with what you are doing with your orange tree and just use salt on a test plant to put your mind a ease.
Salt water from the sea can be applied directly once a month. Others suggest 1/3 sea water to 2/3 tap water.
It's true some plants are salt sensitive. Your link says that about citrus. But I have never had a problem with the above routines. However, it may be prudent to take a year off now and again.
Good luck. You could use a variety of fertilisers and have all bases covered.
I must warn you, if Doug Edmeades comments on this thread, and sees this he’s going to call me a quack and you a fool. Crikey, the irony.
Quote:
''Analysis of economic detriments. Dr Edmeades estimated the economic detriments as follows: "Assuming a farm (either dairy or sheep/beef) with optimum soil fertility. The science tells us that production will decline by about 5% per annum if the nutrients lost from the farm annually (i.e. in products off the farm, from leaching and runoff of nutrients, and transfer of nutrients to non-productive areas) are not replaced with fertilizer inputs. The important nutrients in this regard are P, K, S and Mg. Probitas when used as recommended contains insignificant amounts of these nutrients and therefore will not maintain the soil nutrient levels against the losses.''
It's not super-duper phosphate, Robert. It was meant to be spread with equal parts Dolomite. Now you know why much of our pastural land is out of kilter.
Not research -practical applications. I understand. It's a little too advanced. And you cannot conceive of me doing such stuff. But Robert, you didn't fool me. Anyone could see you were stringing me along. You don't go from trolling me, to suddenly hanging off my every word.
So why did I waste my time on you? Simple. As a testament to the machination of an Immoral Lefty mindset that knows no limits. A future reference for those asking for proof about the faults of Lefties I supposedly write about.
"As a testament to the machination of an Immoral Lefty mindset that knows no limits. A future reference for those asking for proof about the faults of Lefties I supposedly write about."
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Slap down!
Poto is another one of many fine Labour Government ministers.
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Misdirection: New Zealanders see burly gang members, decked out in their patches, sitting astride their deafening motorcycles, cruising six abreast down the motorway as frightened civilians scramble to get out of their way, and they think these guys are the problem. Fact is, these guys represent little more than the misdirection ...
New Zealand’s defence minister, Peeni Henare, has had a very busy first half of the year. In January, Henare was the face of New Zealand’s relief effort to Tonga, following the eruption of the Hunga Tonga–Hunga Ha’apai volcano. Then, from March onwards, Henare was often involved in Jacinda Ardern’s announcements ...
James Heartfield wrote this article on intersectionalism and its flaws nine years ago. He noted on Twitter: “Looking back, these problems got worse, not better.” Published 17 November 2013. Is self-styled revolutionary Russell Brand really just a ‘Brocialist’? Is Lily Allen’s feminist pop-video racist? Is lesbian activist Julie Bindel a ...
The New Zealand First donations scandal trial began in the High Court this week. And it’s already showing why the political finance laws in this country need a significant overhaul. The trial is the outcome of a high-profile scandal that unfolded in the 2020 election year, when documents were made ...
The televised hearings into the storming of the Capitol are revealing to the American public a truth that was obvious to some of us from the outset – that the Trumpian “big lie” about a “stolen” election was part of a determined attempt at a coup that would have been ...
When in 1980 I introduced the term ‘Think Big’ to characterise the major (mainly energy) projects, I was concerned about the wider issue of state-led development strategies. From that perspective, the 1980s program was not our first ‘think big’. That goes back to Vogel in 1870, who wanted to develop ...
Malaysia will abolish the death penalty: The government has agreed to abolish the mandatory death penalty, giving judges discretion in sentencing. Law minister Wan Junaidi Tuanku Jaafar said the decision was reached following the presentation of a report on substitute sentences for the mandatory death penalty, which he presented ...
The Petitions Committee has reported back on a petition to introduce a capital gains tax on residential property, with a response that basicly boils down to "fuck off, we're not interested". Which is sadly unsurprising. According to the current Register of Members' Pecuniary and Other Specified Interests, the eight members ...
We Can Be Heroes: Ukrainian newly-weds pose for the cameras before heading-off to the front-lines. The Russo-Ukrainian War has presented young people with the inescapable reality of heroism. They see Volodymyr Zelensky in his olive-drab T-shirts; they see men and women their own age stepping-up to do their bit. They have ...
I'm sure I'm not the only one who has noticed the irony of Boris Johnson's desperate attempts to cling onto power.I recall, almost immediately after Jermey Corbyn was elected, a bunch of memes based on the WW2 film Downfall, associating the mild manner Jermey Corbyn with Hitler in his final, ...
Terms and conditions may change For myriad reasons we'd like to think and know that dumping our outmoded and dangerous fossil fuel energy sources may be difficult and may require a lot of investment but that when we're done, it'll be back to business as usual in terms of what ...
Yesterday the Supreme Court quashed Alan Hall's conviction for murder, declaring it was a miscarriage of justice. In doing so, the Chief Justice found that "such departures from accepted standards must either be the result of extreme incompetence or of a deliberate and wrongful strategy to secure conviction" - effectively, ...
New Zealand may have finally jumped off its foreign policy tightrope act between China and the US. Last week, Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern effectively chose sides, leaping into the arms of the US, at the expense of the country’s crucial relationship with China. That’s the growing consensus amongst observers of ...
Farmers are currently enjoying the highest prices and payouts in the history of this country. They will never be better placed to acknowledge that their wealth comes on the back of climate-changing emissions and causes serious amounts of water and soil pollution. Costs which everyone else is having to shoulder. ...
A ballot for two member's bills was held today, and the following bills were drawn: Electoral (Right to Switch Rolls Freely) Amendment Bill (Rawiri Waititi) Customs and Excise (Child Sex Offender Register Information Sharing) Amendment Bill (Erica Stanford) The first is also covered in Golriz Ghahraman's ...
It never rains but it pours. A day after we get the mysterious landscape of TirHarad, we finally get Empire Magazine’s image of the Amazon Celebrimbor, as played by Charles Edwards: Now, I would be lying if I said that this Celebrimbor looks in any way like the ...
The world is currently going through a surge of inflation - some of it due to the ongoing breakdown in the global supply chain, some of it due to disruptions to oil and food supply due to Russia's invasion of Ukraine, but much of it due to pure corporate profiteering. ...
The He Waka Eke Noa report has finally been released, and it shows that the entire project was a scam from start to finish. The scam starts with the title, which translates as "we are all in this together". But the whole purpose of the policy is to ensure that ...
Today is a Member's Day, and first up is the second reading of the Canterbury Regional Council (Ngāi Tahu Representation) Bill. Like the recent Rotorua bill, this is going to be controversial, as it ditches the principle of fully-elected local bodies in favour of iwi appointments (and disproportionate ones at ...
As per Fellowship of Fans, we now have a couple more images from The Rings of Power, this time what appears to be some items from the upcoming Empire Magazine article. This first ...
In this Free Speech podcast Daphna Whitmore speaks to Nina Power – an English social critic, philosopher, and author of the new book “What Do Men Want”. Nina was previously a senior lecturer in Philosophy at Roehampton University in Britain. She writes for Telegraph, Art Review, and The Spectator and ...
Back in 2017, then-opposition leader Jacinda Ardern declared climate change to be "my generation's nuclear-free moment". Since then the government she leads has passed the Zero Carbon Act, legislating a net-zero (except for methane) 2050 target and strengthening our interim 2030 target. But that target has been rated as "insufficient" ...
That giant sucking noise is the sound of the jobs of our nurses, doctors, and midwives being vacuumed up by medical recruiters from New South Wales. The conservative Perrottet NSW state government has just announced ambitious aims to recruit more than 10,000 nurses, doctors and other staff as part of ...
A Man May Smile And Smile: Stan Rodger was an affable almost avuncular figure although it’s important to recall that no-one gets to the top of the then largest union in the country without exercising the skills commonly found in any political snake pit; ostensible bands of brothers and sisters ...
This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections by Karin Kirk The rising cost of gasoline and diesel is both a frequent headline and an ongoing financial drain for many, let alone a major issue in the upcoming November midterm elections. But unlike previous gas crunches, some consumers now have options ...
New Zealand’s motley collection of Public Holidays tell a story about who we are as a people. New Year’s, Waitangi Day, Good Friday, Easter Sunday, Anzac Day, Queen’s Birthday, Labour Day, Christmas. We’ve ...
In one of his interviews with the UK’s BBC News, President Volodymyr Zelensky had expressed some dismay at the West’s toleration of sanctioning Russia on the one hand, while with the other still taking considerable income and influence from Russia via a range of sources, such as fuel (gas ...
Apres moi ...? Queen Elizabeth II, photographed nearly 70 years ago at her coronation. A remarkable monarch, but she is faltering. Unable to attend so many of the Jubilee’s dazzling spectacles, the Queen’s frailty attests to the unalterable fact of human mortality. Unlike palaces and castles, human-beings cannot be strengthened ...
A Sun-Hardened Road To Victory: The point of maximum danger will come if/when a day arrives when the Russian forces in Ukraine lose all offensive capability and begin to fall back under Ukrainian pressure. That moment is likely to come when the state-of-the-art weaponry currently being dispatched from the United ...
It's All In Our Heads: Prefixing right and left with the word “centre” was once a gesture of moderation, intended to reassure voters that the people being put up for election by these “mainstream” parties weren’t crazies. Today, however, the use of the word in relation to parties like America’s ...
This makes me want to puke:The Jubilee weekend isn’t just an opportunity for us to reflect on the 70 years since Her Majesty’s accession to the throne – although it will, of course, be that.And it isn’t simply a chance for a country wearied by the extraordinary circumstances of the ...
‘Dark Towers’, a book on Deutsche Bank, throws light on a long running economic dispute.In 1959, William Baumol, perhaps the most innovative modern economist who was never a Nobel laureate, published Business Behavior, Value and Growth, which argued that firms did not maximise shareholder value but maximised their own growth, ...
We're clever. Now let's be wise, together. "If people are at the heart of climate action, then understanding and tackling climate change cannot be done by engineers or natural scientists alone. All disciplines need to work together–not least a range of social sciences including political science, sociology, geography and ...
Coming on the heels of the recently signed Solomon Islands-PRC bilateral economic and security agreement, the whirlwind tour of the Southwestern Pacific undertaken by PRC Foreign Minister Wang Yi has generated much concern in Canberra, Washington DC and Wellington as well as in other Western capitals. Wang and the PRC ...
It came at a “critical moment” according to Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern, referring to her meeting yesterday with US President Joe Biden. She was talking about the need for New Zealand and its superpower ally to have dialogue in the midst of their panic over China’s increasing diplomatic presence in ...
Stan's Our Man: A decent, moderate Labour Party stalwart, Stan Rodger navigated the treacherous waters of the Rogernomics era to such effect that he was able to state, with complete honesty, that he belonged to none of the factions that were tearing the Fourth Labour Government apart. Unfortunately, as Aneurin ...
Like a unicorn, New Zealand’s independent foreign policy is a fabulous creature – highly treasured, rarely seen but credited with magical healing powers. Some say that if judiciously applied, it could even bring peace between the warring parties in Ukraine. Yet right now, it is very difficult to see much ...
It is somehow appropriate that in today’s Herald, Mike Hosking, in his anxiety to pin the blame for inflation on the government, should ignore the evidence from around the world of world-wide inflation rates and supply-side constraints occasioned by the pandemic and the Ukraine war, and should go further – ...
This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections by Jeff Masters Residents of Hurricane Alley can anticipate an above-average Atlantic hurricane season in 2022, NOAA’s Climate Prediction Center said Tuesday, May 24. In its first seasonal forecast for 2022, NOAA predicted a 65% chance for an above-average Atlantic hurricane season, a 25% chance ...
People should think for themselves. Peter Hitchens says “Not since the wild frenzy after the death of Princess Diana have I ever met such a wave of ignorant sentiment. Nobody knows anything about Ukraine. Everyone has ferocious opinions about it.” See “Can anyone explain to me why this was ...
First day of Winter in this part of the world. Not cold, of course. Dunedin hasn’t had a properly cold winter since 2015. But the skies are appropriately grey. It is also time for my monthly reading and writing update. Completed reads for May: Sad Cypress, by ...
Stuff reports that the Independent Police Conduct Authority has found that a pair of police prosecutors acted "unprofessionally" in discussing a prosecution with a colleague who was a defendant in the case: “The defendant had approached the prosecution staff to discuss aspects of his case and in doing ...
For supporters of New Zealand teams, the Super Rugby Pacific competition has produced some entertaining matches (entertaining in terms, at least, of the closeness of the results, rather than, so much, the skill and quality of the play). But, all too often, we have seen – even from the Crusaders, ...
Dangerous Political Narrator? What this Labour Government risks is the emergence of what might be called a “super-narrative” in which all the negatives of co-governance, media capture, and Neo-Tribal Capitalism are rolled into one big story about the deliberate corruption of New Zealand democracy. The guilty parties would be an ...
In Mandarin, Taiwan is spelt U-K-R-A-I-N-E: It is all very well for President Joe Biden to pledge his country’s military intervention should China invade Taiwan, the real trick is making Beijing believe him. Why would it, when Washington has been so careful to ensure that its own forces, and those ...
One of the most appalling things about the current Official Information Act regime is how it is enforced. Or rather, how it is not enforced. Complaints about delays - agencies not responding within the statutory time limit - are one of the most common types of complaint. And yet, for ...
This week, we’ve marked a major milestone in our school upgrade programme. We've supported 4,500 projects across the country for schools to upgrade classrooms, sports facilities, playgrounds and more, so Kiwi kids have the best possible environments to learn in. ...
We’ve delivered on our election commitment to make Matariki a public holiday. For the first time this year, all New Zealanders will have the chance to enjoy a mid-winter holiday that is uniquely our own with family and friends. Try our quiz below, then challenge your whānau! To celebrate, we’ve ...
The Green Party says the removal of pre-departure testing for arrivals into New Zealand means the Government must step up domestic measures to protect communities most at risk. ...
The long overdue resumption of the Pacific Access Category and Samoan Quota must be followed by an overhaul of the Recognised Seasonal Employers (RSE) scheme, says the Green Party. ...
Lessons must be learned from the Government's response to the Delta outbreak, which the Ministry of Health confirmed today left Māori, Pacific, and disabled communities at greater risk. ...
The Green Party is calling on the Government to withdraw the proposed Oranga Tamariki oversight legislation which strips away independence and fails to put children at the heart. ...
As New Zealand reconnects with the world, we’re making the most of every opportunity to show we’re a great place to visit, trade with and invest in as part of our plan to grow our economy and build a secure future for all Kiwis. Just this week we saw further ...
The Greens welcome the Productivity Commission’s report into our immigration settings, reiterating the need to decouple work visas from single employers. ...
As part of our work to ease the cost of living, we’re taking action on supermarkets to make sure New Zealanders are paying a fair price at the supermarket checkout. We know competition in the supermarket industry isn’t working. New Zealanders aren’t getting a fair deal. People are fed up ...
The Government has delivered on its commitment to roll out the free methamphetamine harm reduction programme Te Ara Oranga to the eastern Bay of Plenty, with services now available in Murupara. “We’re building a whole new mental health system, and that includes expanding successful programmes like Te Ara Oranga,” Health ...
Kura and schools around New Zealand can start applying for Round 4 of the Creatives in Schools programme, Minister for Education Chris Hipkins and Minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage Carmel Sepuloni said today. Both ministers were at Auckland’s Rosehill Intermediate to meet with the ākonga, teachers and the professional ...
It is my pleasure to be here at MEETINGS 2022. I want to start by thanking Lisa and Steve from Business Events Industry Aotearoa and everyone that has been involved in organising and hosting this event. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to welcome you all here. It is ...
Aotearoa New Zealand Minister of Foreign Affairs, Hon Nanaia Mahuta and Australian Minister for Foreign Affairs, Senator the Hon Penny Wong, met in Wellington today for the biannual Australia - Aotearoa New Zealand Foreign Minister Consultations. Minister Mahuta welcomed Minister Wong for her first official visit to Aotearoa New Zealand ...
The volatile global situation has been reflected in today’s quarterly GDP figures, although strong annual growth shows New Zealand is still well positioned to deal with the challenging global environment, Grant Robertson said. GDP fell 0.2 percent in the March quarter, as the global economic trends caused exports to fall ...
More than a million New Zealanders have already received their flu vaccine in time for winter, but we need lots more to get vaccinated to help relieve pressure on the health system, Health Minister Andrew Little says. “Getting to one million doses by June is a significant milestone and sits ...
It’s a pleasure to be here today in person “ka nohi ke te ka nohi, face to face as we look back on a very challenging two years when you as Principals, as leaders in education, have pivoted, and done what you needed to do, under challenging circumstances for your ...
The Provincial Growth Fund (PGF) is successfully creating jobs and boosting regional economic growth, an independent evaluation report confirms. Economic and Regional Development Minister Stuart Nash announced the results of the report during a visit to the Mihiroa Marae in Hastings, which recently completed renovation work funded through the PGF. ...
Travellers to New Zealand will no longer need a COVID-19 pre-departure test from 11.59pm Monday 20 June, COVID-19 Response Minister Dr Ayesha Verrall announced today. “We’ve taken a careful and staged approach to reopening our borders to ensure we aren’t overwhelmed with an influx of COVID-19 cases. Our strategy has ...
Foreign Minister Nanaia Mahuta will travel to Rwanda this week to represent New Zealand at the Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting (CHOGM) in Kigali. “This is the first CHOGM meeting since 2018 and I am delighted to be representing Aotearoa New Zealand,” Nanaia Mahuta said. “Reconnecting New Zealand with the ...
We, the Ministers for trade from Costa Rica, Fiji, Iceland, New Zealand, Norway and Switzerland, welcome the meeting of Agreement on Climate Change, Trade and Sustainability (ACCTS) partners on 15 June 2022, in Geneva to discuss progress on negotiations for the ACCTS. Our meeting was chaired by Hon Damien O’Connor, New Zealand’s Minister for ...
Internal Affairs Minister Jan Tinetti has today announced Caroline Flora as the new Chief Censor of Film and Literature, for a three-year term from 20 July. Ms Flora is a senior public servant who has recently held the role of Associate Deputy‑Director General System Strategy and Performance at the Ministry ...
Eleven projects are being funded as part of the Government’s efforts to prevent elder abuse, Minister for Seniors Dr Ayesha Verrall announced as part of World Elder Abuse Awareness Day. “Sadly one in 10 older people experience elder abuse in New Zealand, that is simply unacceptable,” Ayesha Verrall said. “Our ...
More New Zealand homes, businesses and communities will soon benefit from fast and reliable connectivity, regardless of where they live, study and work,” Minister for the Digital Economy and Communications, David Clark said today. “The COVID-19 pandemic has shown us time and again how critical a reliable connection is for ...
Disarmament and Arms Control Minister Phil Twyford will lead Aotearoa New Zealand’s delegation to the Treaty on the Prohibition of Nuclear Weapons (TPNW) First Meeting of States Parties in Austria later this month, following a visit to the Netherlands. The Nuclear Ban Treaty is the first global treaty to make nuclear ...
Foreign Affairs Minister Nanaia Mahuta will this week welcome Australian Foreign Minister, Senator the Hon. Penny Wong on her first official visit to Aotearoa New Zealand as Foreign Minister. “I am delighted to be able to welcome Senator Wong to Wellington for our first in-person bilateral foreign policy consultations, scheduled for ...
State schools have made thousands of site, infrastructure and classroom improvements, as well as upgrades to school sports facilities and playgrounds over the past two and a half years through a major government work programme, Education Minister Chris Hipkins said today. The School Investment Package announced in December 2019 gave ...
Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern had a warm and productive meeting with Samoa Prime Minister Fiamē Naomi Mata’afa in Wellington, today. The Prime Ministers reflected on the close and enduring relationship the two countries have shared in the 60 years since the signing of the Treaty of Friendship, and since Samoa ...
“Food price data shows New Zealanders pay too much for the basics and today’s figures provide more evidence of why we need to change the supermarket industry, and fast," Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister David Clark says. Stats NZ figures show food prices were 6.8% higher in May 2022 compared ...
An independent body to strengthen and protect the integrity of the sport and recreation system is to be established. “There have been a number of reports over the years into various sports where the athletes, from elite level to grassroots, have been let down by the system in one way ...
Parents of babies needing special care can now stay overnight at Waitakere Hospital, thanks to a new Special Care Baby Unit (SCBU), Health Minister Andrew Little said today. The new SCBU, which can care for 18 babies at a time and includes dedicated facilities for parents, was opened today by ...
The Trade Ministers of the European Union, Ecuador, Kenya and New Zealand have agreed to work jointly to forge an inclusive Coalition of Trade Ministers on Climate. This reflects their shared commitment to bringing the fight against climate change to the forefront of trade policy. The Ministers want to enhance ...
The Government is interested in exploring with public sector unions a pay adjustment proposal, the Minister for the Public Service Chris Hipkins said today. This follows the New Zealand Council of Trade Unions writing to the Government proposing to enter into a process for a pay adjustment across the public ...
Kris Faafoi resigns from Parliament. Kiri Allan promoted to Justice Minister, Michael Wood picks up Immigration Speaker Trevor Mallard to end 35 year parliamentary career in mid-August as he prepares to take up a diplomatic post in Europe. Adrian Rurawhe to be nominated as Speaker Priyanca Radhakrishnan moves into ...
Kris Faafoi has today announced that he will be leaving Politics in the coming weeks. Kris Faafoi has thanked the Prime Minister for the privilege of serving as a Minister in her government. “It’s been an honour to serve New Zealander’s as a Minister and as a Member of Parliament, ...
Paid Parental leave entitlements will increase on 1 July, resulting in up to $40 extra a week for new parents, or up to an additional $1040 for those taking the full 26 weeks of parental leave, Workplace Relations and Safety Michael Wood has announced today. “We know things are tough ...
Rangatahi experiencing homelessness are being supported by the Government to find safe, warm, and affordable places to live, the Associate Minister of Housing (Homelessness) Marama Davidson announced today. “This Government is investing $40 million to support rangatahi and young people to find a safe, stable place to live, put down ...
Michael Wood has announced he will travel today to the International Electric Vehicle Symposium and Exhibition (EVS), hosted by the European Association for Electromobility in Oslo, Norway. “EVS is the leading international gathering to address all the electromobility issues. The conference brings together government Ministers, policymakers, representatives from industry, relevant ...
Defence Minister Peeni Henare joined a panel of Defence Ministers to discuss climate security at the 19th Annual Shangri-La Dialogue in Singapore today. He addressed the 2022 summit at a special session on “Climate Security and Green Defence”. The Minister was joined on the stage by his counterpart from Maldives and ...
In a first in advancing the interests of women in trade, the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) and New Zealand have published a review on trade and gender in New Zealand, Trade and Export Growth Minister Damien O’Connor announced. The ‘Trade and Gender Review of New Zealand’ sheds light ...
The Government has welcomed the outcome of the International Labour Organisation’s consideration of New Zealand’s Fair Pay Agreements (FPA) system, following a complaint made to it by BusinessNZ. “Despite efforts by opponents to misrepresent the purpose of FPAs, the ILO's Committee on the Application of Standards has not found that ...
Ambassadors, representatives of your many countries it pleases me to convey a special greeting to you all on this sacred land of Waikato Tainui. Fa’afetai fa’apitoa ia te outou uma I le lau’ele’ele paiao Waikato Tainui Nga mihi nui ki koutou Nga Rangatira o te Ao i tēnei whenua ...
Ambassadors, representatives of your many countries it pleases me to convey a special greeting to you all on this sacred land of Waikato Tainui. Fa’afetai fa’apitoa ia te outou uma I le lau’ele’ele paiao Waikato Tainui Nga mihi nui ki koutou Nga Rangatira o te Ao i tēnei whenua o ...
Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and Australian Prime Minister Anthony Albanese today held their first successful bilateral meeting in Sydney this morning. The Prime Minister was the first head of government to meet with Prime Minister Albanese in Australia since the he took office. “I was really delighted to meet Prime ...
Trade Minister Damien O’Connor travels to Europe today for the World Trade Organisation (WTO) Twelfth Ministerial Conference (MC12). While at the WTO he will meet with ministerial counterparts from other countries to discuss bilateral and regional trade and economic issues, and progress New Zealand’s ongoing EU-NZ FTA negotiations. He will also ...
The Government’s lifesaving bowel-screening programme is now available across the whole country, Health Minister Andrew Little said today. The programme has been successfully rolled out across the country over five years. In that time, cancers have been detected in 1400 people as a result of screening. Thirty-five per cent of ...
Tēnā tātou katoa Kei ngā pou o te whare hauora ki Aotearoa, kei te mihi. Tēnā koutou i tā koutou pōwhiri mai i ahau. E mihi ana ki ngā taura tangata e hono ana i a tātou katoa, ko te kaupapa o te rā tērā. Tēnā koutou, tēnā koutou, ...
The new O Mahurangi Penlink transport connection in north Auckland has passed another milestone following the signing of the construction alliance agreement today, Transport Minister Michael Wood announced today. As part of the Government’s $8.7 billion New Zealand Upgrade Programme, O Mahurangi Penlink will provide growing communities in Silverdale, Whangaparāoa ...
Tena kotou katoa, It’s a pleasure to be here with you today. Thank you for inviting myself and my esteemed colleague Minister Sio. I do want to firstly extend the apologies of the Minister of Education Hon Chris Hipkins We have lots to catch up on! The past two and ...
Women will play a significant role in how New Zealanders farm for the future, and new Government funding will help them pave the way, Associate Agriculture Minister Meka Whaitiri said. “We’ve committed $473,261 over two years through the Ministry for Primary Industries’ (MPI’s) Sustainable Food and Fibre Futures fund to ...
Today was a dark day for global press freedom. The UK Home secretary Priti Patel has signed the extradition to send Australian journalist Julian Assange to the US, the same country who reportedly plotted to assassinate him , and has charged him ...
Point of Order looks forward to hearing from Dr Gaurav Sharma, MP for Hamilton West. Our interest in him and his sensibilities was whetted by a recent Parliamentary debate in which he indicated he had been upset by something National’s Simon O’Connor had said on the subject of academic freedom. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Adrian Beaumont, Honorary Associate, School of Mathematics and Statistics, The University of Melbourne AAP/Darren England Buttons have now been pressed to electronically distribute preferences for the May 21 federal election in the Senate for South Australia, Tasmania and Queensland. I ...
Pacific Media Watch newsdesk The UK government’s decision to uphold the application by the US Department of Justice to extradite Australian publisher Julian Assange imperils journalists everywhere, says the union for Australia’s journalists. The Media, Entertainment and Arts Alliance calls on the Australian government to take urgent steps to lobby ...
By Gorethy Kenneth in Port Moresby Australia has gifted Papua New Guinea with 3000 ballistic vests and 3000 helmets which arrived at Jackson’s International Airport in Port Moresby today. They were flown in on a Royal Australian Airforce C17 Globemaster inbound from the United States. The ballistic vests and helmets ...
Kizzy Kalsakau and Anita Roberts in Port Vila Vanuatu’s opposition leader Ralph Regenvanu said Members of Parliament from the Opposition bloc would boycott the special Parliament sitting again today. “We think there are a number of amendments that are very bad for the country, and very dangerous for the Parliament ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Peter Breadon, Program Director, Health and Aged Care, Grattan Institute Shutterstock At the urging of the premiers, Prime Minister Anthony Albanese on Friday agreed to extend current public hospital funding until the end of the year. The federal government ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Liam Phelan, Senior Lecturer, School of Environmental and Life Sciences, University of Newcastle Shutterstock The clock is now ticking on New South Wales’ largest coal mine. BHP has announced it will close its Mount Arthur mine in the Hunter Valley ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Katja Ignatieva, Associate Professor, UNSW Sydney Shutterstock News about the energy crisis engulfing Australia’s east coast seems inescapable. Terms such as “grid”, the “National Electricity Market” and “transmission” are being tossed around alongside the frightening prospect of soaring power bills ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Wendy Boyd, Associate Professor, Faculty of Education, Southern Cross University Shutterstock Celebrations greeted Thursday’s co-ordinated announcement by the NSW and Victorian governments that they will invest $6 billion and $9 billion, respectively, to provide 30 hours a week of play-based ...
Child Poverty Action Group commends the Select Committee’s recommendation to keep the crucial role of the Children’s Commissioner but is concerned that the process got this far. The independence of the Commissioner is critical if that role is to ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra University of Canberra Professorial Fellow Michelle Grattan and Director of the Institute for Governance & Policy Analysis Dr Lain Dare discuss the week in politics. This week the pair discuss Australia’s escalating energy crisis – ...
This article was published today on Kal du Fresne’s blog (HERE). Newly promoted minister Kiritapu Allan has said what a lot of people think but feel unable to say. She lashed out in a tweet against “tokenistic” use of te reo by employees of DOC “as an attempt to show ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Nick Bisley, Dean of Humanities and Social Sciences and Professor of International Relations at La Trobe University, La Trobe University In its first month in power, foreign policy and national security have played a major part of the new government’s activities. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michael Woods, Professor of Health Economics, University of Technology Sydney Getty The government costs of providing subsidised aged care for around 1.5 million seniors are set to blow out, while earnings for providers are dropping. Aged care delivers many ...
“Activists are targeting our children with harmful ideologies. They’re indoctrinating kids with anti-biology teaching on gender and are now attacking religious schools like Bethlehem College for their beliefs. This has to stop,“ says Helen Houghton, ...
Buzz from the Beehive Businesspeople gathered in Christchurch for a national trade show called MEETINGS were treated to a cheering-up speech from Stuart Nash, Minister of Economic and Regional Development and of Tourism. MEETINGS is described as the only national tradeshow in New Zealand for the business events ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra As the energy crisis continues to grip Australia’s east coast with consumers told to limit their consumption and warnings of blackouts Tony Wood, director of the energy program at the Grattan Institute, speaks with Michelle ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Sam Baron, Associate professor, Australian Catholic University Disney/PixarSpoiler alert: this article explains a key plot point, but we don’t give away anything you won’t see in trailers. Thanks to reader Florence, 7, for her questions. At the beginning ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Nick Fuller, Charles Perkins Centre Research Program Leader, University of Sydney Shutterstock Australia’s regulator has banned FatBlaster Max, an over-the-counter pill that claimed (with no evidence) to be able to help you lose weight. FatBlaster Max can no longer be ...
The latest iteration of the National Policy Statement on Indigenous Biodiversity (NPSIB) is a massive land grab on a scale not seen in New Zealand for 140 years, Groundswell NZ spokesman Jamie McFadden says. “This policy, as drafted, turns biodiversity ...
Extensive work in the criminal justice space by many has revealed that the systems - as they currently operate - cause harm. That’s why a group of independent organisations have created Aotearoa Justice Watch, a new platform for people with lived experience ...
Aotearoa New Zealand has a long way to go in enhancing its laws to protect child privacy rights in the age of sharenting, says privacy law expert Nikki Chamberlain. As parents and caregivers pepper social media with photos of their children's milestones ...
U niversity of Auckland Professor Ananish Chaudhuri on Covid-19 policy decisions, their implications, lockdowns and cognitive biases in pandemic decision-making. Professor Ananish Chaudhuri says that a single-minded focus on the pandemic may have prevented ...
A new nationwide poll has found significant opposition to gender ideology being taught to primary school students, and majority support for parents being informed of their own children exhibiting gender dysphoria at school. There is also more support ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Nic Rawlence, Senior Lecturer in Ancient DNA, University of Otago Trilobites similar to those above have been found in 505 million-year-old rocks in New Zealand.Shutterstock It’s not often New Zealanders admit Australia is onto a good thing. Our long-running trans-Tasman rivalry ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Rodney Tiffen, Emeritus Professor, Department of Government and International Relations, University of Sydney Under siege: Richard Nixon in his White House office in 1974Nixon Library via Wikimedia One of the more curious legacies of the Watergate scandal is so obvious that ...
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Gutten Tag from Austria.
No masks, no mandates' life is normal in Europe. Weather is warm.
Things are cheap as compared to NZ.
[No follow-up response received to Mod notes; take the 2 weeks off and enjoy your trip – Incognito]
Mod note
Coming to a town near you.
"For the next four months, a doctor will be available just three days a week at the medical centre, instead of five, and many of those consultations will be by video, not in person."
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/cuts-to-gp-service-alarm-west-coast-town
The NZ growth in video doctor consults is massive. Do it from your bed!
Death bed?
*wry smile
I would have thought teleconsults could be done from Chch too, so it's not entirely clear what is happening here.
Best way I can think of to get a GP to live in that area would be to gift them some land with a decent house on it.
The problem is that if you have "a" GP they never get time off. They are on call 24 hours of every day and holidays become almost impossible to arrange. It would need more than providing a house to overcome that problem.
At least a doctor who works in a big city Medical Centre can take holidays.
Reported my + covid result yesterday afternoon. My GP called me on my mobile last night to ensure I was ok, stocked up with medication and supplies, and to ensure I knew the signs of significant problems. Offered a loan of a pulse oximeter, they have 15 for loaning out, but my daughter had bought me one (and a body temp sensor) about 6 months back.
I don't think you'd get better service from a GP than that.
Do you know what a locum is?
Well yes, I do know what a locum is.
I don't understand your question though in terms of your original comment. When you said "a GP to live in that area would be to gift them some land with a decent house on it." I assumed you meant a permanent resident, not a locum. Were you suggesting a house for a locum would be an incentive?
If, on the other hand, you were suggesting that the permanent doctor could get a locum so they could take a holiday I don't see how they could do it. If the DHB can't find locums how is an individual doctor going to do any better?
The DHB can find locums, just not enough in the current system. Who do you think does the three days a week currently? Having a permanent GP would change things a lot, then bring in locums as the GP needs to go on holiday, have breaks etc. It's not an all or nothing.
From the link,
Perhaps two GPs – one full-time and one who wants to reduce workload and willing to work part-time and be on call.
My late father did a locum for a rural GP in the mid 1950's. He was advised that many of the locals had not yet grasped the principles of a cash economy. He got the GMS benefit for everyone he saw, but the rest was very much "in kind". Fortunately my mother was raised on a farm and her father was a butcher so being confronted with large lumps of recently demised animal or bird (often complete with shotgun pellets) did not worry her. She could also pluck and dress a chicken. We were particularly happy if someone had been over to the coast and we got fresh or smoked fish or crayfish. When there was not produce it was "mow your lawn Doc?" or "clean your car Doc?". We certainly ate well and his tax return was very good that year,
Might work for a couple who are both GPs? But assuming they have accommodation for locums, I was thinking a freehold house would be the kind of incentive for someone to make the move permanently.
Yes, I agree.
But was thinking a family home with a separate apartment would work.
Buy two houses and then they have more choice.
$350,000 – $400,000 each. Wonder how much the DHB is spending on travel and accommodation now.
True. I was thinking for attracting young people sometimes low maintenance is attractive. So is extra income option with Air B n B.
"Chair Lisa Neil says the absence of a GP will load more work on to the minimal nursing staff at the medical centre.
“We have a vulnerable elderly community here and the nurses are already under pressure dealing with Covid in the community.”
Cutting services at a time when Reefton people are in the thick of the epidemic and under stress from spiralling living costs is a bad idea, Neil says.
“It’s a real blow. People are reluctant to front up [with depression] as it is, and if you’re dealing with an intimate problem, elderly people especially won’t be comfortable talking to a TV screen and having an extra person in there with them as well.”
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/cuts-to-gp-service-alarm-west-coast-town
Who needs a face to face with a GP anyway…..hopefully nobody.
Whatever it is, they're against it!
The co-founders of Groundswell admit they have not read the three waters legislation they are so vehemently against.
[…]
Groundswell co-founders Laurie Paterson and Bryce McKenzie also said they haven't read the proposed legislation. Paterson says, nonetheless, they're opposed to what's on the table.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018845171/groundswell-co-founders-haven-t-read-bill-they-re-vehemently-against
Yup, same attitude and response from ‘critics’ of Three Waters roaming free here on TS. They refuse to engage with the proposals, they choose to close off their minds, and they self-justify this by pointing at all sorts of things being thrown around in the MSM and by the opposition parties, i.e. pointing at ‘hidden agendas’, alleged ‘secrecy’ and ‘dishonesty’, ‘stealth’, et cetera. They will never have to find out how good or bad the reforms might be (very bad, of course) and they simply stick their fingers in their ears. But at the end of the day it is always the same as from the outset: prejudice, pure & perfect prejudice. However, never say this to those people because they’ll flip their lid in a fit of incongruence rage.
Co-governance is a thorny one. Take the Canterbury Regional Council (Ngāi Tahu Representation Bill) currently going through parliament. To my mind Ngāi Tahu getting to appoint two representatives to an elected board is undemocratic.
But of course, the same people vigorously race baiting over this co-governance arrangement were more than happy in 2010 when National dumped the elected councillors and replaced them with commissioners to enable the pillaging and theft of Canterbury's water resources on behalf of corporate dairy interests.
So the opposition to Ngāi Tahu getting two representatives isn't so much a principled defense of democracy as being aggrieved the wrong people are getting a nice salary for life.
Personally, I strongly doubt the Ngāi Tahu representatives will prove to be any better guardians of the waters of Canterbury than some entitled cocky whose family arrived on the Charlotte Jane in 1850. The squabble is really over which bunch of entitled twots get to make money out of the commons that is water. To that extent, I oppose co-governance – to my mind, greed is colour and race blind and the only way to really keep an eye on these wannabe rentiers for life and keep them in check is full participatory democracy.
Labour just sacked the democratically elected DHBs /shrug.
Bit of a difference between an entity being disestablished and the board being sacked while the entity continues operating.
sacking was a reference to when National sacked the elected members of the Area Health Boards in the early 90s.
Ngai Tahu are one of (if not) the biggest owners of dairy farms in Canterbury. If any other sector were given 2 seats on ECAN it would be called a Conflict of Interest.
If you’re referring to royalties, I’ve seen arguments these could have advantages over the non-pricing structure currently in place for drinking water. I fail to see, at present, that this is a get-rich-quick scheme for anybody, but greed is not in my nature.
The only consistent prejudice I see on display here is the one that says anything to do with white people is to be discounted, deplored and derided at every opportunity.
According to Witi Ihimaera it is a Maori Universe after all.
Do we have to take the my dad's better than your dad plagiarist, or anything he writes, seriously?
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/reviewer-claims-more-plagiarism-in-ihimaera-novel/4I62ATPIUE5GXEVO3757AR3JYM/
I’ve long given up on the idea that one size fits all.
Two things frighten them. Anything that eats into profit, and anything that gives Maori any say in the environment.
It’s amusing that a farmer from Gore has taken a position opposing the 3 Waters reforms.
Gore has a combined sewage / stormwater system. A throwback from the 19th century and rather expensive to fix. It’s also got a shrinking ratepayer (dying) ratepayer base. Without the socialisation of costs that 3 Waters will bring Gore will probably cease to exist as the rates required will be unsustainable.
A combined sewer-stormwater system is a modern septic outrage.
WTF is that Council doing?
Auckland Council's Stormwater team and Watercare only finished separating out flows from the whole of the Ponsonby-Herne Bay-Freemans Bay-Wynyard Quarter catchment last year. Including a 3.3metre diameter stormwater line 600 metres long.
They still have 2 years to go doing the Central Interceptor project that separates most of the previously joined system. That's over $1b of work in that one alone.
Well they’ve got a seriously good Art Gallery… But they are thinking about it and I think they will start in a few years, it’ll probably take 20 years at what they can afford. If there’s a poster child for 3 Water it’s Gore Anywhere else would have been amalgamated three reforms ago
But as you’ve pointed out Auckland isn’t too flash in this regard, and at a much larger and more public scale. This gets hard to fix and most TAs don’t have Aucklands scale and resources
After the 1990's nact inflicted disasters that beset the city Whanganui was unable to afford a ten year waste water separation scheme. But we did.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/whanganui-chronicle/news/stormwater-separation-129-houses-from-completion/UXGZEVBHTCGMXEFBCNAGVYD6M4/?c_id=1503426&objectid=11011217
apart from the financial forecast, what problems does Gore have with its drinking water, greywater and sewerage?
In much / most of Gore and Mataura there is only one pipe for sewage and stormwater. When it rains the lot goes into the shit ponds which discharge into the river. Hasn’t been ideal practice since about 1900.
My reckons is there is no further polling damage 3-Waters can do to the government. The legislation will be implemented without fuss. But it will take over a decade to notice much difference.
The really big difference is the state fresh water regulator enforcing the National Fresh Water Drinking Standards, upon water systems from lazy shitty little farmer-owned councils who didn't give a damn for decades.
My only reservations about three waters is water governance is being consolidated into a nice ripe target for privatisation by a future National government (which will inevitably involve a grubby little cronyist deal with corporate Iwi that'll entrench rentier lifestyles for all those lucky enough to be at the table when the divvy up is done) and a real sadness that it signals a complete and utter failure of local democracy.
I would have preferred the government had spent a few hundred million on a local democracy revival project before declaring them all incompetent.
I can't think of a single Wellington bureaucrat who would support strengthening local government.
They've gutted them ever deper since 1989.
and then they wonder why there is resistance.
The fresh water regulator is a positive step.
"My reckons is there is no further polling damage 3-Waters can do to the government."
I respectfully disagree. There are tens of thousands of people invested in privately owned rural schemes (plus the people in the hundred or so rural council owned schemes) who will suddenly find the schemes they have paid for they no longer control. There is the ongoing and deep set resentment across local government towards central government at the perceived loss of control over ratepayers assets. and at the way the process has been undertaken. And then there's the commitment of both National and Act to overturn the entire structure.
"But it will take over a decade to notice much difference."
Certainly there will be no benefit before the next election, and that is a huge problem, because over the next year the media will be full of reports of the cost of establishing the entities. This is a big play by Labour, and it will be interesting to see how the politics plays out.
I'm sure there are indeed several thousand on private water systems, but seriously Labour never had them to start with.
There will certainly be structural setup stories, but the river pollution stories are going to get bigger and bigger.
"I'm sure there are indeed several thousand on private water systems, but seriously Labour never had them to start with."
I have a friend who lives on a lifestyle block near Masterton. He's one of the many rural people who is part of a private scheme, and he voted for Labour in Wairarapa in 2020, along with significant others that saw the seat go red. He's one of many that will vote blue in 2023 due significantly because of 3Waters. That will play out across provincial NZ, IMHO.
When I was in a private developers scheme, I heaved a sigh of relief when the local council took over that ongoing liability, even though it cost a considerable sum at the time, to get the scheme connected to the public one.
Many of the smaller council's in particular, should be relieved that the costs will now be shared over a much wider area.
Would you be as equally relieved if the water authority determined your scheme was no longer viable?
They did, down the track, and rebuilt it into a new reticulation and treatment scheme.
and reduced your rates 80% at the same time?
No. Rates over the whole town went up a little to pay off the new scheme.
Much cheaper than we would have had to pay in annual levies for the private scheme,which only served about a hundred odd houses.
Economies of scale. Eh?
Or cross subsidy.
Economies of scale set against increased bureaucracy, larger and disparate areas of activity, promised improvement of both delivery and standard and thousands more employed.
Something dosnt add up.
Simply that the cost and efficiency of the water and waste water plants per user, improved, when going from about a hundred houses, in the private scheme, to being shared amongst over 8000.
"No. Rates over the whole town went up a little to pay off the new scheme."
Originally there was no water or sewage plant, except for the development.
Which of course was paid for by buyers, including myself, in the subdivision.
We would have had to pay all the ongoing costs ourselves of the rather expensive to run water and wastewater scheme split amongst a hundred households.
Noting that unit costs drop as plant gets bigger.
The rest of the town was on tank and septic tank.
Later the rest of the town was reticulated to the extended private scheme. Both water and wastewater supply.
Further down the track this was inadequate, as the town grew, and a new scheme was built. Every section paid a levy for the new scheme and ongoing running costs became part of rates.
Much cheaper per household than the original scheme. And saving a nice bit of coast from leaking septic tanks.
You are using terms you apparently dont understand….yes your (future) personal expense was reduced because it was met by a larger group whos future expense was increased…this is contrary to both what is promised by 3 Waters and economy of scale.
No. You fail to understand.
Their future expense went down.
No more maintaining septic tanks.
As did mine.
Economies of scale.
Again
"No. Rates over the whole town went up a little to pay off the new scheme."
Rates which are less than the ongoing costs per household, if the scheme wasn't done.
Originally non reticulated households, also benifited from the initial work and plant built and paid for by the houses in the private scheme, so if there was any cross subsidy, it was from those of us who paid for the private scheme at the start.
Everyone gained from the new scheme. At reduced ongoing cost per household.
@pat, we had a similar situation in our rural community.
However, in this case the local government solution was to require the developer to provide a considerably bigger upgrade for wastewater treatment than his resource consent number of properties warranted.
Once in place, other rural land was rezoned, and the council charged those developments to connect to the now upgraded system.
Other rural land in the area with Grade I soil, has followed with residential zoning, partly justified by the access to the waste water system which retains excess capacity.
A particularly pernicious way of rezoning rural land. In this case there are other factors that make this rezoning not as bad a full greenfields development but it does indicate the lack of transparency.
@ Molly.
I have no idea what is grade 1 soil but guess it is productive(?)
However designated land use is imo likely the only effective way of addressing the multitude of issues we face though it would need to be considered in a holistic manner…and it would be deeply unpopular.
When it comes to water infrastructure the problems and solutions remain the same regardless of governance form, management style or political persuasion.
@pat. Yes, Class I soils are productive. There are/were issues with the soil classifications maps that could be up to 5km out in some places. That might have been resolved.
However, the rural land here was not only zoned Class I, it was historically and currently used for food production.
The alternate reasons why this development is not as bad as it could be. There is a geological (topographical) limit to residential expansion, where the sprawl is contained. The community has a long history – pre treaty, and so is well serviced in terms of services and recreational community assets that have built up over time. There is remnants of a train station, with a working rail line. If passenger trains were reinstated to this line, residents would have a viable alternative to car travel.
In my opinion, this is a significantly different situation to other rural developments that have been permitted without connection to existing communities or public transport links.
@Molly
Many rural communities have historically survived and thrived without the 'benefit' of the latest infrastructure, however the environment (in both senses) has changed….and not for the better.
As one commenter noted a few days ago our population is widely dispersed and many of our communities small and distant from large scale infrastructure removing the option of consolidation….all of these will still require access to potable water, and to meet the standards for waste….and no one has yet addressed the question of contamination of water supplies be it nitrates, PFOS or whatever other contamination we discover that is both extremely difficult and expensive to remove and is historical.
These schemes have ben paid for by private citzens, who are quite happy to control their system, and not at all happy having it stolen from them.
Private schemes are outside the Three Waters reforms.
That's not what Keiran McAnulty told a meeting in the Wairarapa.
It's also not what people are being told in areas such as Queenstown.
I suspect there is some confusion.
Much has yet to be determined…there are areas where the new entities will have an impact on private schemes and there is also concurrent reform with Taumata Arowai
Perhaps you could dig into it and clear it up for us and your friend in Masterton?
Perhaps the government should have thought all this through before effectively stealing assets paid for by ratepayers and private citizens.
And again, you have no game
If I had more time to spend on this I would. In the meantime, confusion reigns, which suits you, doesn’t it?
Gee I wouldn’t go that far. We know enough to determine the scheme is inferior to alternatives.
But look I’ll be generous and save you some time. When you said “Private schemes are outside the Three Waters reforms” you obviously weren’t aware of this:
https://www.qldc.govt.nz/media/hv4bxvy3/acquisition-and-vesting-of-private-3-waters-scheme-policy-draft-rev-1-16-12-2021.pdf
I don't know how you managed to make the html in that comment so complicated, but I've stripped it out and made it more readable. It's good practice to put links in the clear especially if they are to PDFs. People need to see what they are clicking on.
I don’t have time to rebut this properly. Unfortunately, and unsurprisingly, you have not clarified anything, not cleared up the confusion but only added to it.
Clearly, you have an anti-Three Waters Reforms agenda. You quote some stuff to prove something but it isn’t clear what that is except to bolster your agenda of negativity.
Just briefly, from your linked PDF:
Your PDF also states:
Which means that you can go there and find out that private schemes are outside the Three Waters reform, as I correctly stated before. Unless you can find more recent info that contradicts this, e.g. because Government has done a U-turn.
So you are given a list of requirements proposed for private schemes and you double down! Your comment about private schemes being “outside the Three Waters reforms” was incorrect.
On the wider issue of 3Waters, I suggest you read the article by Sandra Coney in the Herald about the Waitakete Ranges.
[Link required. Don’t expect others to do the donkey work for you. And you have to explain why and how the NZH article is relevant to the discussion thread about Three Waters Reform and private schemes, not just point to it and say ‘read it’ – Incognito]
I suggest that when you make a suggestion for somebody to read something you include a link and spell names correctly. And if it is in the NZH then it better be not behind the pay-wall or it could be conceived as a troll comment by you – the onus is on you to avoid wasting other people’s time and not put them on wild goose chases through Google, the internet, and then find a brick wall and a hard stop when the article is finally found. I hope for your sake that this is not the case because you will receive a Mod note soon.
Since you seem be adamant on heaping confusion on the matter at hand rather than helping to clarify things I’ve made some time to do some digging.
Can you handle a one-page Summary Fact Sheet on Three Waters Reform – Rural water supplies? Sure you can; you handled the 18-page QLDC policy no sweat.
And
And
https://www.dia.govt.nz/diawebsite.nsf/Files/three-waters-reform-programme-2021/$file/rural-water-supplies-fact-sheet-three-waters-reform-programme.pdf
Mod note
The link is in the original post. But you know that.
https://www.qldc.govt.nz/media/hv4bxvy3/acquisition-and-vesting-of-private-3-waters-scheme-policy-draft-rev-1-16-12-2021.pdf
The NZH article is relevant to the wider discussion about 3Waters and it’s merits. It’s worth purchasing a copy for.
[So, still no link to the NZH article and still no explanation why and how it is relevant to the discussion here. And now you suggest I and other readers here should pay and purchase a copy!? Because it’s worth it, in your opinion, without explaining why and how!?
The link I requested was to the NZH article. But you know that.
However, you provided the same link to the QLDC policy draft again, for the third time, after extensively and selectively quoting irrelevant stuff. I referred to it in my reply @ 11 June 2022 at 2:15 pm and I’ve quoted from it myself. But you know that.
It is unclear and ambiguous to refer to the “original post” without being more specific about which exact comment you mean. When I refer to the OP I refer to the blog/article/piece written by the Author, not to the beginning of a discussion thread or sub-thread. In any case, it is not clear what you’re referring to and this is OM!?
So, you’re a disingenuous troll here, baiting, diverting, obfuscating and you’re wasting Moderator time. Take a week off – Incognito]
Mod note
"Can you handle a one-page Summary Fact Sheet on Three Waters Reform – Rural water supplies? "
And then you go on to provide a link about transfer of ownership. Your claim was "Private schemes are outside the Three Waters reforms." and yet your own reference states:
"Private drinking water suppliers currently registered under the Health Act will have a year to comply under the Water Services Bill – this includes all public supplies and some large networked rural supplies."
If the scheme has to comply with any new regulations under 3Waters, it is simply false to suggest the scheme is ‘outside’ of the reforms.
And in anticipation that you will try to claim your comment was about 'ownership', the comment you were replying to when you made your claim, and my subsequent comments, have referred to 'control' not 'ownership'.
Nope, neither control nor ownership are transferred out of and away from private schemes. You’re confusing compliance with the new regulations and regulatory framework with loss of control, which is bot inaccurate and incorrect and amounts to fearmongering. The same fearmongering and propaganda as we might expect from some rural quarters with hysterical outburst and frankly ridiculous claims such as "They're stealing our water!", FFS. https://www.ruralnewsgroup.co.nz/rural-news/rural-general-news/they-re-stealing-our-water
To have something stolen from you, you have to own it in the first place. Some rural folk seem to think that they own the commons and because they have been free to use it and waste it they own it, for all intents & purposes. Now, who are the real thieves here?
By all accounts you’re quite intelligent, yet you don’t do anything to help clearing up confusion. Rather, you antagonise and obfuscate. The most obvious conclusion is that you have a deliberate agenda in stalling Three Waters Reform as much as possible and ideally make it fail.
https://www.dia.govt.nz/diawebsite.nsf/Files/Three-waters-reform-programme-2022/$file/Three-Waters-Reform-boiled-down-May-2022.pdf
I cannot make it any clearer for you or for anybody else. To draw conclusions that are in direct contradiction with the information provided is a sure sign of being disingenuous and not commenting & debating here in good faith. This is the very strong impression you create time after time.
There is a full on white panic going on in certain parts of the country right now, assiduously dog whistled by an army of GOP adjacent racists and/or culture warriors like Laurie Paterson and in the MSM by an army of right wing opinionistas.
That this is a race based backlash can be discerned from the targets – co-governance, smearing Mahuta and attacking Poto Williams, racist fear mongering over three waters, the vigorously pumped conspiracy theories from He Puapua to white paranoia about rigging elections (see National MP David Bennett) to far out conspiracy theories like the great replacement theory which is increasingly being mainstreamed on the NZ right and popping up in comments sections of the likes of the NZ Herald.
But it's not about race, it's about privatisation….
The council-iwi working group, on which Smith was a member, had recommended an entrenched clause to stop the water assets' privatisation. The sale or transfer of even a single pipe would require the agreement of at least 75 percent of all MPs.
[…]
Infrastructure Minister Grant Robertson called on opposition parties to "step up" if they believed in public ownership. "We've heard certainly from the National Party that they've been throughout this process concerned about the loss of ownership in communities," he said. "Now they can step up and say 'we will agree that these assets won't be sold'."
But it's understood the National Party did not agree to support the entrenched clause, protecting against privatisation – it is ironic for Jason Smith that it is the party he has just joined that has effectively blocked the requirement for a super-majority.
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/three-waters-entrenchment
Got it in one Sanctuary. And its percolating through centrist communities too. If you confront them – as I have with a few family members – they descend into fits of outrage because it's not racism. Oh yeah.
I have been following stories on the trip to England by Prince Harry and Meghan Markle. There it is again. Racism in all its glory. Hatred and vitriol abounded in subtle and less subtle guises. They are dammed if they do and damned if they don't. I can't even begin to imagine the uproar if it had been their little boy, Archie who played up on the balcony and elsewhere.
It will be understandable if they never return to racist Britain.
I'm sure Britain will be ecstatic.
Meanwhile they're living in considerably-more-racist USA.
Really, you care what the H&M roadshow says or does? Talk about the pinnacle of irrelevance. At least the R Family (privileged though they may be) actually work [truly, you couldn't pay me to do their jobs, be in that goldfish bowl, and live a life in the public eye]
I had sympathy for H&M when they wanted to ditch it all; but the sympathy waned rapidly when it was apparent that they actually wanted to live like A-list celebrities, and were perfectly prepared to sacrifice their precious privacy at the altar of their new god, Netflix.
Actually I was picking up on Sanctuary @3.4 and talking about racism Belladonna. The example I gave is just the latest.
Don't care what you may think I care or don't care about, or for that matter what you may care or not care about. Don't do Netflix and don't follow the pair's antics in the US so don't know what you're talking about. And just so as you get the message I don't care either. 😈
Then perhaps you should use an example where you do care, and have bothered to do a minimal level of research.
I care about racism and other forms of destructive prejudice. I don't care about the circumstance or past mistakes of the individual/individuals who happen to be the targets.
A less judgemental approach to commenters based on… zero knowledge of their backgrounds or the extent of their "research" endeavours into matters that happen to be of interest to them would be helpful. You might find the favour being returned.
I you make a statement that
It's pretty obvious that you've done little or no research.
And I suggest a mirror, when you're talking about "less judgemental approach"
A LOT of venting about bullies….and Maaries and WHO should own the Water. Well, them Farmers of course ! (They already do……)
Apart from the people who drafted it, I doubt even the minister has read the whole thing. It would be more to the point to ask if they'd read the summary of the Bill and the discussion document.
Bad news for the Government.
The top five issues are:
1. Inflation/cost of living.
2. Housing/price of housing.
3. Healthcare/hospitals.
4. Petrol prices/fuel.
5. Crime/law and order.
National should be delighted with the attention Labour is giving 3 Waters.
https://www.ipsos.com/sites/default/files/ct/news/documents/2022-06/17th%20Ipsos%20New%20Zealand%20Issues%20Monitor%20-%207%20June%202022%20%28report%29.pdf
And when have the top five issues ever been anything else other than the ones quoted. You're a gullible idiot!
I'm sorry, I must have missed morning report. What do you mean?
I don't think they care about reelection at this point. I think the cabinet of mediocrity is simply hoping it gets as many of its social engineering reforms through by mid 2023 as possible.
They are doubling and trippling down on everything that makes them unpopular and have abandoned anything remotely popular.
People voted labour because they thought they might do something about unaffordable housing, unaffordable rents, living costs, mental health, welfare ,health, tax reforms and in 2017 Jacinda even said she supported drug reform.
Instead all those problems are worse and labour is worrying about Geoffrey Palmer esque pie in the sky constitutional reforms and social engineering.
Tens of thousands wait on social housing lists and labour won't increase the percentage of social housing in total supply better to just copy national and throw them in costly motels rather than build state housing which is revenue asset for the govt but nevermind.
Private Rentals are impossible to find but theres a hundred thousand empty houses in NZ the govt just shrugs. Instead of developing land and building houses we give land to developers to sell extremely overpriced two bedroom boxes that sit empty.
Cost of living is out of control and our supermarket duopoly greed is hurting our people and a war with them would be extremely popular, the govt spends months saying it'll do something major doesn't even do the bare minimum. Another failed opportunity
Instead of spending loads on training new nurses and doctors for free we spend loads on centralizing healthcare bureaucracy. While dying people sit in beds in our ers.
Drops a CGT as soon as they start polling highly after March 15. wasted opportunity
Pm whose popularity, like way Trudeau would have gotten weed reform Says she supports drug reform in 2017, the party doesn't wrote a coherent drug policy, pm refuses to say she supports drug reform Incase it costs her a single vote but will support euthanasia, the result is pretty much 50/50 and immediately govt rules out any reform desire weed reform being popular with half the country. Another cynical wasted opportunity and if you look at the weed industries around the world, one that is leaving NZ behind. Failure to get any drug reform from this govt is shameful.
Instead of things on housing,cost of living , health, things people actually vote labour for we get hate speech laws, woke extremists running an anti terrorist unit, 3 waters, centralization, more hotels, a broadcast merger, co-govt constitutional reforms and a few crumbs like wage rises, benefit rises, bland climate reforms, weak workers rights reforms and more and more unaffordable empty box apartments.
Yippie.
Then there's the off touted COVID response , the one praised for not clogging up our healthcare system…. Except…… ambulances are so busy they aren't taking calls heart attacks have 1/4 survival rate, hospitals are chocker full and ambos are just dropping patients to emergency bay and picking which ones get treated and which ones don't…. Boy seems like we just postponed the health crisis by two years and didn't do anything with the two extra years to increase health care capacity.
Thank God for vaccinations because otherwise we really would be upshit creek. Which is a credit to the govt but not increasing capacity is a discredit.
In previous elections labour used to say we'd love to do this or that if only we had a majority. Now we know they what they will do with a majority. Constitutional reforms rather than economic or housing reforms. Yay!
I hope labour wins a third term.
Not because I think they'll do anything, they ruled out anything that would get people excited, I hope labour wins a third term cos national and act would be horrifically bad for many of my friends and families living standards. Labour just won't make it much worse.
But if labour loses I hope it's a nat/nzf /act govt or nat/Maori/act govt cos those two centerist parties would stop act and national reeking too much ruthanasia on the poor.
Hope you're right, remembering that Richarsdon was a National party MP, finding her natural home (the Association of Consumers and Taxpayers NZ party, founded by Douglas and Quigley), only after she departed Parliament.
Yes Ross, it is always easier to sit on one side throwing rocks into the kitchen.
Being able to produce change in an unstable world is harder. You did not mention 3 huge problems. Covid War Climate Change.
All we hear from National is "We could do it better and cheaper"
Righto!! Why do you think that would be? You new boss says "He would do the same"
"He would spend the same" So what exactly would change….. Tax cuts?? How did that work for 90% of us???
Oh I gedditt!! You would have a Big Daddy in charge.!! Not a "Girl"
Guess what?? He needs to do more homework. This is not a company There is a big bad world out there having an effect on us. We can't ignore that for political convenience. Most countries are struggling.
Don't forget when Labour were in opposition, they threw plenty of rocks and were going to fix the homeless issue, child poverty etc. and Kiwi build 10k houses a year, fix the state house wait list and hospital wait lists. All oppositions can promise the world as they don't have to deliver.
How is that going now that they have been in government for nearly five years?
The EU has just voted to ban diesel and electric new cars by 2035.
That's a good signal from the world's 3rd largest co2 polluter.
I can't remember what our target is.
Ad, this is what I read, published 8 hours ago.
"European Parliament lawmakers on Wednesday voted to support an effective EU ban on the sale of new petrol and diesel cars from 2035, rejecting attempts to weaken the proposal to speed Europe's shift to electric vehicles."
https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/eu-lawmakers-support-effective-ban-new-fossil-fuel-cars-2035-2022-06-08/
They're not banning electric cars by 2035 are they Ad?
Just the way you worded your comment made me think they were phasing out EV's!
Just banning all others petrol and diesel I think.
https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/eu-lawmakers-support-effective-ban-new-fossil-fuel-cars-2035-2022-06-08/
That's it.
From the Shaw carbon plan we don't have a target for combustion engine vehicles. Other than the bus fleet.
Germany getting people out of their cars. But they’ve got a proper train set.
.
Millions of Germans are expected to take advantage of a summer of cheaper travel from next month under government plans to boost public transport use and give financial relief to consumers facing a cost of living crisis.
A €9-a-month ticket scheme is to be introduced from 1 June allowing travel on all modes of city and regional transport. The ticket will apply nationwide and will be available for three months until the end of August.
[…]
The cost of the ticket is a fraction of the normal cost of travel, amounting to around a sixth of the price of the cheapest monthly ticket available for Berlin’s central zones.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/20/germany-public-transport-boost-9-euro-month-ticket
Looks like it's on everything except their cool fast trains.
An unforeseen consequence.
Is everyone comfortable that around 20 people are dieing from Covid 19 related illness each day? That' over 100 deaths per week and the way its going looks odds for over 5,000 by years end. The business lobby won and the old, infirm and (probably) poor lost. I'll still vote Labour but when backbone was needed they didn't stand up for their people – it's a sore point for me and whilst I think that overall Covid was handled really well if we get to the next election with 10,000 dead from Covid it will be hard to use the handling of the pandemic as a reason to vote Labour. .
I don't think anyone is "comfortable about it". Certainly still very concerned about the vulnerable around me.
Once omicron was in the country, and everyone that could, or would be, was vaccinated, it is hard to say what else could be done. It is doubtful if enough people would have supported further lockdowns to make them effective. As we could see at the end of the last Auckland lockdown.
Even China's draconian lockdowns are leaking. With pretty dire results in areas with around 60% vaccination rates.
Keeping covid out until we had 95% vaccinated, has saved thousands of lives, compared with countries that didn't reach those levels before opening up.
One thing that was conceded to business, which may have slowed the spread more, is the required length of self isolation. Ten days, not seven, would have accorded more with the probability of being infectious. https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2022/02/17/1081510375/isolation-testing-omicron-infection
Interesting interview Jamie McKay had with soil scientist, Doug Edmeades. Some main points:
1- Farmers need to realise urea isn't the best source of nitrogen, clover pasture is. Emades believes growing good clover pasture has become a lost art.
Yeah, but urea gets a hell of a fast result even though much is lost into the atmosphere. And…I hate clover pasture, as anyone who has lifted and stacked clover hay bales will attest to.
2- Soil does not produce nutrients, so fertiliser is a must. In the 80s when many farmers cut back on fertiliser, those who continued fertilising came out of the then farming slump in a much better position. When you use less fertiliser you need to reduce your stock numbers.
3- Farmers use too much phosphate. That's a problem in NZ. I used bat guano for a few years. The phosphate reading when taken was off the charts. In alternative medicine, excessive phosphate is considered a cause for cancer and other diseases.
Now for the contentious issue – Methane .
Quote:
''Yes, ruminants produce CH4. Yes it is a greenhouse gas. Yes it may be possible to come up with interventions to reduce emissions from the animal.
BUT! Let me explain.
Methane is short-lived in the atmosphere. It hangs around for about 10 years before it is converted to CO2. For every unit of carbon the animal emits as CH4 it must ingest the same amount of carbon from its plant-based feed source, which, remember, comes initially from the CO2 in the atmosphere.
From the animals perspective every bit of carbon it emits as methane it mopped up as carbon in its feed. The animal is both the source of the carbon in methane and it is also the sink for the equivalent amount of carbon in CO2. In this sense the carbon-methane cycle: methane-to-CO2-to-forage-plants-to-animals-to-methane, is a closed cycle.''
Dr Doug Edmeades, MscHons, ONZM (Services to Agriculture), is an independent soil scientist based in Hamilton. He welcomes feedback – [email protected]
In Vino has replied yesterday to some of these similar points:
''Blade – I read that crap in the local café. Utter baloney – the guy lies about methane, claims a closed system when much of his 'disappearing methane' converts to carbon dioxide, and peddles a load of wishful garbage.
He claims that 'methane is gone in ten years.' If I remember correctly, that approximate figure is its half-life. And what is the point if farmers are replenishing it with a new full amount every year? No mention of methane being up to 60 times worse that CO2 as a heat-retaining gas.''
One-eyed, wishful drivel.
My point here is, and has always been, we don't see enough Edmeades in the media because they have issues with some mainstream narratives on climate change.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/the-country/news/dr-doug-edmeades-should-methane-be-included-in-the-ets/2RTYB2WJE5HMP4Y2V2J4ZQ66X4/
Edmeades is a major drag on progress here in New Zealand.
You're such a wag, Blade, waving your ineptly-baited hooks around here on TS. You do get nibbles, but to those watching, you're a subtle as, well, Edmeades himself.
The methane excuse is utter nonsense. The hydroxyl argument is a red herring (note the continued fishing theme). In Vino said,
"One-eyed, wishful drivel."
Pretty fair comment, that.
This, from you:
"I hate clover pasture, as anyone who has lifted and stacked clover hay bales will attest to."
Classic, though poorly expressed, trolling clap-trap. Red meat stuff. Carelessly expressed though – "anyone who has lifted and stacked clover hay bales" won't in fact, attest that you hate clover pasture.
You might like to drop Edmeades a line yourself:-) and ask him why, if livestock methane is carbon-neutral and nothing to worry about, are farmers and their representatives etc. gleefully accepting the millions of dollars from the Government to research … methane reduction?
Perhaps you can answer that question yourself?
I don't usually respond to you, Robert, because I consider you a soundbite karen. But as you have extended yourself let's have looksee.
''Edmeades is a major drag on progress here in New Zealand.''
Based on what? Your ideology?
''You're such a wag, Blade, waving your ineptly-baited hooks around here on TS. You do get nibbles, but to those watching, you're a subtle as, well, Edmeades himself.''
I put this up for debate because it is current in the media; it stops the blog becoming an echo chamber and as I'm continually considered nuts because I don't believe in manmade climate change shouldn't I be able to defend myself? Hooks and nibbles is more to do with your mind set.
"I hate clover pasture, as anyone who has lifted and stacked clover hay bales will attest to." Classic, though poorly expressed, trolling clap-trap.
In fact it was side comment as to the extreme weight of clover bales. Some can come in at 70-80kgs wet. I can’t see you hacking that work, Robert.
Again your unusual mind set on display.
''Red meat stuff.''
We can't have that can we, Robert. Although the world loves our pasture fed red meat.
''You might like to drop Edmeades a line yourself:-) ''
Why don't you drop him a line? When you don't get a reply you may like to ask yourself why?
Sorry, Blade, but you have maxed out again. I think I did a lot more hay-bale lifting that you ever did. Through all my Uni years it was my summer holiday job. 3 of us running one truck plus a loader (good boss back then – we shared driving once every 3 loads of 120 bales, but at the barn we all had to stack like hell..
My one little concession to capitalism: we were paid per bale moved. We were efficient. The few times we saw guys being paid by the hour, they were so slow that we felt nothing but contempt.
So yes – reward productivity.
Clover bales were lovely when properly dried. They hurt your thighs much less! Heavier when wet, and more likely to cook and catch alight if stacked in a barn too wet.
I picked up bales each summer starting 1965 til 1970. I had hoped it would make me a muscleman, but it just made me skinny and wiry with little, bumpy arm muscles. And it made me very fit, but I have slowly worked that off.
Edmeades as I see it does not prove a closed system for farming. His argument that farms absorb as much carbon dioxide as they produce does not counter the carbon dioxide produced as the methane magically disappears. Nor does he seem bothered about the seriously more damaging effect of methane itself.
We need to reduce methane urgently, not rabbit on about theoretically closed systems.. Edmeades appears to be aiding an interested status quo party to my mind.
Great story. I only did two seasons. And yes, I, like you, only put on arm muscle. But I was lean and mean…and bloody fit. I also saw 3 people walk off the job because they couldn't hack it. Lord knows how many would walk off the job nowadays.
Only just got through my first week. Several guys dropped out after a day or so.. Including a police trainee.
Maybe we were still under the effects that the Great Depression had on our parents… There are still plenty of good young guys (Covid has just forced my retirement from Secondary School Relief Teaching) and there are also heaps of tough-looking young guys that would not hack it.
More worrying – there are also disaffected young guys who would put that kind of effort in for a gang, but not for a standard job.
Low wage economy makes hard work a sucker's game nowadays?
And how did we end up with an unproductive, low-wage economy?
I blame Roger Douglas. I heard him say on the radio in early days that we must do all his reforms, but NOT become a low-wage economy.
Every reform he did weakened unions, and promoted a low-wage economy.
Great. Thanks a million, Rogernomes.
On second thoughts I will drop him a line with a link to this thread. Let's see what the cat drags in.
Please don't. One ignorant F-wit per thread is enough!
No abuse please. We have been warned enough.
A reply will either show him to be incompetent, or it will as Earle Kirton was fond of saying, ''be good night nurse'' for some experts on this thread.
Blade – you are the recent arrival, and the troll. Don't presume to teach us manners.
I'm teaching you nothing. Incognito laid down the kaupapa and suggested we follow it. That's what I'm doing and from my perspective KJT isn't.
You also called me a troll. You will need to back that up and show me where I'm trolling. And no, posting articles that aren't kosher from a Leftie perspective is not trolling in my opinion.
The good news for you is if I'm not booted off before hand , I will be gone for good after the next election. This will be no place for a Rightie to ply his trade. So grit ya teeth. Time will fly… and before you know it Luxon will be pontificating on the podium about how National is going to make NZ great again.


Seems Dr Edmeades' ONZM award (2013) for Services to Agriculture was well-earned.
And what Robert Guyton wrote @8.1. Sand still not bothering you? What’s your secret?
And the source of that increase in ppm methane is?
Leaky pipes,emissions from coalfields, flaring ,flatulence from Kale.
NZ total ch4 emissions are not even the standard error.
Indeed…and the largest source of biogenic methane (that which is part of the carbon cycle) is wetlands.
https://newscenter.lbl.gov/2020/08/13/global-methane-emissions-soaring-but-how-much-was-due-to-wetlands/
We may have too many cattle beasts but they are not the main cause of increasing atmospheric methane, indeed those studying it are struggling to account for it.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2020/02/19/were-vastly-undercounting-methane-emissions-fossil-fuels-scientists-say/
Wetlands are interesting insofar as they have a huge ability to lay down carbon,
https://cdiac.ess-dive.lbl.gov/trends/ecosystems/gajewski.gif
There is a real complex ecosystem there,which is difficult to model,With coastal wetlands they do not produce so much CH4 due to SO2 from the sea (acid rain) from algae.
Poission is right. Wetlands will be the saving of us (those of us who live in regions where wetlands were, pre-agriculture, vast wetlands – put them back)!!
I fear another forest carbon credit debacle is in the offering…..are we to ban rice paddies next?
Probably right.Ted talks and investor conferences.
Not ban wetlands; fens, bogs, swamps and mires – make more of them!!
Many more. The benefits are enormous! Food production from wetlands is something that was once well known, but has been forgotten, mainly, til now. Eels, crayfish, mussels and more, not counting plants (watercress etc.
Best thing though, the filtering, cleansing, water-slowing effects of wetlands. Uncounted savings to all regions, subject to flooding.
But they produce methane Robert….public enemy number one!
If farmers can claim a natural methane cycle for their animals, wetland defenders can surely claim the same for their waterbodies!
Carbon sequestration by wetlands is beyond "significant". We'd be fools to talk wetlands down.
Or…
If wetlanders can claim a natural methane cycle farmers can claim the same for their stock.
Carbon sequestration on farms is significant. We'd be fools to talk food production down.
With a 500b$ foreign liability,and a country that is fiscally restrained destocking of Bovine /ovine biomass needs to be matched by the removal of equivalent human biomass from NZ.
No welfare state,15-20% mortgages,councillors reduced to minimum hourly rate for meetings only,a reduction in MP'S a population of around 1990 or less.
"…a reduction in MP'S a population of around 1990 or less."
Every cloud has a silver lining
We'd be fools not to recognise that "food production" does not equal "livestock farming as presently practiced".
It's not a binary.
There are many other food production models and many other foods.
Milk is not King!
"There are many other food production models and many other foods.:
Indeed there are….however methane accounting is not being used as a reason to remove them (at least not here)
Or we can support unsustainable consumption – it's a 'free' choice.
The half-life of methane in the atmosphere is around 9.1 years so NO it has not all disappeared in 10 years. Only half of it has converted into CO2 and water vapour – both also GHGs. After another 9.1 years another 1/4 of the original amount will have converted into CO2 and water vapour, and then another 9.1 years later 1/8 and so on. That is how half-lifes work.
The main point is that Edmeades represents about 2.5% of scientific opinion on the matter. The jury is well out against him and for good reason. There are numerous papers and reports that show that the Methane cycle is out of balance – largely caused by increased numbers of agricultural livestock. A fair summary is here:
''The half-life of methane in the atmosphere is around 9.1 years so NO it has not all disappeared in 10 years. Only half of it has converted into CO2 and water vapour – both also GHGs. After another 9.1 years another 1/4 of the original amount will have converted into CO2 and water vapour, and then another 9.1 years later 1/8 and so on. That is how half-lifes work.''
Could you please provide a link ? That's not how I understand things.
https://gml.noaa.gov/education/info_activities/pdfs/CTA_the_methane_cycle.pdf
https://www.calculator.net/half-life-calculator.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmospheric_methane
Thanks, Macro.
I tried to put the half-life thing to Blade a few days ago, but he ignores and pretends not to get it.
He obfuscates deliberately. That is his role.
Easy cowboy… be careful before you jump to conclusions. That half-life thing is interesting… I'll mull over it for a couple days. You should too.
If the concept of half-life will take you a few days to mull over, how long did it take you to mull over magnetism and paramagnetism? The mind boggles …
"In this sense the carbon-methane cycle: methane-to-CO2-to-forage-plants-to-animals-to-methane, is a closed cycle.''
Claptrap.
In a "closed cycle" you don't have to keep adding nutrients, including soil carbons.
N2O is even worser 🙂
"Soil does not produce nutrients"
Oh Lordy, protect is from these fools!
I wonder how anything grew at all, in the millions and millions of years that preceded the discovery of urea and super-duper phosphate?
Poor know-nothing Mother Nature!
Those sneaky forests too, must be running a black market import of fert. From somewhere.
Seabirds import fertiliser to some forests.
"Seabird colonies in New Zealand represent the rich diversity of coastal and pelagic seabirds, and are hotspots of intense nutrient and trace element cycling that provide examples of natural nutrient enrichment in terrestrial and stream ecosystems."
Quote from the first paragraph of the review conclusions.
https://newzealandecology.org/nzje/3455.pdf
isn't it cool?! So much that nature does that we would be learning from.
We are talking high density farming with no biomass accumulation as in a forest.
Talking of fert , I have tried nearly everything. Yet I've narrowed things down to seaweed, lawn clippings and salt. Salt has all the minerals many soils need due to depletion. My crops go crazy.
Could you pass this on to Rob, Weka. Best it comes from you.
You have a lawn?
Living in the Stone Age still!
No matter. Converting it into soil is something.
Keep piling on the salt, Blade.
That'll teach you.
Ignorance is bliss. Allow me to learn you, Robert.
https://www.hpj.com/archives/bumper-crops-defy-expectations-in-indonesia-s-tsunami-ravaged/article_ba79a238-af56-5ba5-98bd-eb77f7b19e3c.html
https://www.oceansolution.com/our-services-1
I will from time to time give you new knowledge. I suggest you hang off my every word and learn.
farmers can make their crops go crazy in various ways. Or they can ask nature for a helping hand and make their farms live in perpetuity once the fossil fuels and artificial inputs are gone.
Agree 100%. I'm an organic farmer. Although it must be remembered organic farming like vegan diets demands very careful management and in some cases isn't superior to conventional farming ( in my opinion). Beetroots for example have a higher nitrate content when grown conventionally. And that's what health nuts and body builders want – a high nitrate profile.
"I am an organic farmer"
You use lawn clippings primarily, as fertiliser, Blade?
How big is your farm?
A piece you may (or perhaps not) enjoy Robert.
"Aotearoa New Zealand’s pastoral agriculture has been entirely based on this through the use of grass and clover pastures. Indeed until the expansion of dairying since the 1990s, pastoral and arable farming here used no nitrogen fertilisers – all the nitrogen came from clovers biologically fixing it. This is how organic agriculture that prohibits the use of nitrogen fertilisers works. It is therefore possible to farm without using any nitrogen fertiliser at all, in contrast to lithospheric fertilisers. Yes, compromises have to be made in the production system and there can be profit implications, but, Aotearoa New Zealand farmed for nearly its entire history without nitrogen fertilisers so it is possible to do so again."
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/farmers-dont-need-nitrogen-fertilisers-at-all
Interesting expansion on what Edmeades said about clover pasture use being a lost art in NZ.
I see it as akin to our use of PKE….we waste over a billion a year (IIRC) importing a product that is effectively unnecessary. A lot of our issues can be traced back to the need to service greatly inflated land values that force everyone to maximise every possible skerrick of production to satisfy the bank.
This is not news to me, pat.
In my forest garden, I've included a wide range of leguminous plants; clovers, vetches, lupines, peas, beans, kakabeak, kowhai, tagasaste, laburnum, gleditsia, etc. to serve as nitrogen-collectors for the benefit of the other plants.
New Zealand farmers will return to plant-generated nitrates for their pastures before too long. Many already have.
I hope the warming environment doesn’t favour weevils.
"New Zealand farmers will return to plant-generated nitrates for their pastures before too long."
I expect so, though not necessarily by choice.
I'm betting farmers don't choose "the need to service greatly inflated land values that force everyone to maximise every possible skerrick of production to satisfy the bank." either.
Well the capital gains farmers, which appears to be the majority of "farm investors" these days, chose it, in the expectations of high returns on selling the farms.
Like the “house hoarders”, capital gains, not the long term future of farming, is the goal.
Hobsons choice
In old terms – all up, 10 acres. When I say lawn clippings, that also includes other green matter as well. The place was liberally coated with rock dust about 15 years ago, not so much for the minerals, but for the paramagnetism.
You fertilise your entire 10 acre block with "seaweed, lawn clippings and salt"?
Hmmm….
That's a fairly thin application of lawn clippings, Blade.
Unless your lawn is huge. What percentage of your farm is lawn? It would have to be considerable to be able to service 10 acres!
How much "salt" do you need to cover that area?
If you are using seawater, you'd need a considerable amount to cover 10 acres; how do you collect that much seawater?
You also need a huge volumn of seaweed to cover 10 acres. How do you do this?
Your farm sounds very interesting.
Question: was your rockiest Israelii?
Rock dust. Did it come from Israel?
Nope. Up North. I originally bought it from a defunct outfit in Mt Maunganui.
I now buy it from: https://environmentalfertilisers.co.nz/contact/
Check them out. Some of their organic mixes are excellent.
I also use Bio Char, and my water is vortexed using Viktor Schauberger like tech.
Pressed for time. Will answer your other questions later.
Oh – seaweed meal. Beach seaweed when I have time. You cannot harvest living seaweed.
''Unless your lawn is huge. What percentage of your farm is lawn? It would have to be considerable to be able to service 10 acres.''
About one third. Also boundary weeds and leaves etc. Bio Char is interesting. It is self perpetuating. But in some respects has been over sold. How Bio Char was used in the Amazon is still not completely understood.
''If you are using seawater, you'd need a considerable amount to cover 10 acres; how do you collect that much seawater.''
Fair questions. It's not viable for most farmers. Hence ocean solids are mixed with farm water and then spread. This dude in the clip is obviously a hobby farmer like me. Other clips will show how salt in used in bigger operation.
3 acres of lawn? Wow! HUGE lawn!!
What do you make your biochar from?
"The place was liberally coated with rock dust about 15 years ago"
I didn't realise you are still applying it – why is that? Does your land need a top-up?
''What do you make your biochar from?''
I buy. But for someone like you with plenty of prunings ( I would assume) you could make your own quite easily. Just remember to inoculate it.
"The place was liberally coated with rock dust about 15 years ago"
I didn't realise you are still applying it – why is that? Does your land need a top-up?
I only applied it once as stated above for the paramagnetism. People forget rock dust can take ages to be broke down by bacteria. It is not bio available for a long time. Hence by using salt I am not doubling up on minerals or applying rock dust in a different form each year.
Oh, I see. It's just that you wrote:
"I now buy it from: https://environmentalfertilisers.co.nz/contact/"
I wondered if you are still applying rock dust.
Interesting to hear about your "Viktor Schauberger like tech." for vortexing your water. Those are pretty cool technologies – where did you get yours? What form does it take? It is possible to make your own – is that what you've done. Interesting stuff, Blade. I'd like to hear more!
I see..yes, I still buy it but not for my own use at present. We are soaking dust in water and using it in compost at a rellies place. He likes to grow herbs.
I have told him he may be wasting his time with rock dust. He see's thing differently, time will tell. If I'm wrong, I learn something new.
I had mine made. It's a very simple affair. Something like the copper pipe in this link.
https://www.alivewater.com/vortex-water-revitalizer-product-description
But before you doing anything like that. Do this. Buy one. The price is highway robbery. I bought a packet of them for $4, I think, a while back on Ali express. But with postage delay at present, it's better to pay the higher price.
Then you can experiment. Minimum four twists one way, four the other way. Then water a pot plant etc. Better still, drink a cup of the water and if liver isn't clean, or your body needs a clean out, you will be down with flu like symptoms.
https://nzl.grandado.com/products/vortex-bottle-connector-tornado-in-a-bottle-cyclone-tube-tornado-maker-magic-toy-9?variant=UHJvZHVjdFZhcmlhbnQ6MjA4NzA4NDk4
More questions about your organic practices, Blade – what do you do with the biochar you buy?
Blade, do you mean NaCl (sodium chloride) salt, or nitrogen, potassium, sulfur, and phosphorus (mineral) salts? Just asking because I would have thought NaCl (sea salt) couldn't be too good for your orange tree.
My small orange tree does alright with a few NPK granules springled along the drip line twice a year. NaCl would be much cheaper. Should I apply sparingly?


Don't want my orange crop to become completely deranged
I would have guessed he means unprocessed 'sea salt' – which contains a pretty wide range of minerals.
Yes, a wide range of minerals, but mostly NaCl, which is why I was asking if NaCl is good for citrus. Wouldn't have thought so – happy to learn otherwise.
No, ordinary unrefined sea salt. Trust me ,when I first heard of this I called bs. I was wrong. It's one of the most potent fertilisers I have ever used . See my links.
The ratio is three and a half litres of water to 1 teaspoon of salt, once per month.
Others use way more. Some less. I also sprinkle a handful of salt around a mature tree once a year.
The salt must be unrefined. The minerals in unrefined salt provides a degree of buffering. Refined salt is worthless and will kill your plants. It's not good for human health either. Makes a good weed killer though.
Even though I get great results, I was brought up on the notion salt is a poison for plants. I can't shake that mind conditioning. I still freak out when using salt on my plants. So I suggest you carry on with what you are doing with your orange tree and just use salt on a test plant to put your mind a ease.
Salt water from the sea can be applied directly once a month. Others suggest 1/3 sea water to 2/3 tap water.
It's true some plants are salt sensitive. Your link says that about citrus. But I have never had a problem with the above routines. However, it may be prudent to take a year off now and again.
Thanks Blade, I will try diluted seawater – certainly cheaper than Yates Thrive (Citrus & Fruit). There are, of course, a range citrus fertilisers.
Good luck. You could use a variety of fertilisers and have all bases covered.
I must warn you, if Doug Edmeades comments on this thread, and sees this he’s going to call me a quack and you a fool. Crikey, the irony.
Quote:
''Analysis of economic detriments. Dr Edmeades estimated the economic detriments as follows: "Assuming a farm (either dairy or sheep/beef) with optimum soil fertility. The science tells us that production will decline by about 5% per annum if the nutrients lost from the farm annually (i.e. in products off the farm, from leaching and runoff of nutrients, and transfer of nutrients to non-productive areas) are not replaced with fertilizer inputs. The important nutrients in this regard are P, K, S and Mg. Probitas when used as recommended contains insignificant amounts of these nutrients and therefore will not maintain the soil nutrient levels against the losses.''
https://comcom.govt.nz/news-and-media/media-releases/archive/$272,500-penalty-for-deceptive-claims-about-probitas-fertiliser
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/farmer-fined-260000-for-snake-oil-fertiliser/S7R5X57DPTAXSSOFZW23RLYONI/
ps – the above has nothing to do with salt. But I doubt that will matter.
It's not super-duper phosphate, Robert. It was meant to be spread with equal parts Dolomite. Now you know why much of our pastural land is out of kilter.
You sure learned me good tonight, Sensei!
Right. Now it's your turn to learn me something I can use.
My Bullshit detector keeps annoying me. It won't turn off.
Great trolling, I have to admit.
I wouldn't have a clue what you are talking about. Sometimes changing the battery helps.
You are watering your farm with one of those??
Now I AM astonished!
Well, In Vino only has a quarter acre. So he can spread his bs to a reasonable concentration.
Like In Vino, I think you are bullsh*tting 🙂
Then why did you feign interest and waste my time? I put some effort into those posts?
You do seem to have done some research, Blade and it shows.
Not research -practical applications. I understand. It's a little too advanced. And you cannot conceive of me doing such stuff. But Robert, you didn't fool me. Anyone could see you were stringing me along. You don't go from trolling me, to suddenly hanging off my every word.
So why did I waste my time on you? Simple. As a testament to the machination of an Immoral Lefty mindset that knows no limits. A future reference for those asking for proof about the faults of Lefties I supposedly write about.
Thankyou.
"As a testament to the machination of an Immoral Lefty mindset that knows no limits. A future reference for those asking for proof about the faults of Lefties I supposedly write about."
Juicy, crunchy word-salad!
Yummies!
It matters not what you think. Only what you wrote. I was hoping for more. But you scribbled enough.
Your detector is in fine shape, In Vino.
Ahh – my eventual conclusion is that Blade was really being truthful at
9.2.1.1.1.1 when he wrote, 'I wouldn't have a clue..'
Credit where credit's due.
Yes, he gracefully apologised in a way. Then abused me with basically the same cant on a different thread. I can't win
You shouldn't jump to conclusions In Vino….you know why
Loved it!
Our damned fine Minister of Police, in response to a sarcastic question from little David, as to how she would characterise her comment to bully boy Mercenary Mitchell as 'riding shot-gun with the boys,' she replied as pretty accurate!
Slap down!
Poto is another one of many fine Labour Government ministers.
If you say so.
"Poto is another one of many fine Labour Government ministers."
Goldsmith for Māori-Crown Relations would be gold – Reti could focus on Health.
Nikki Kaye incorrectly describes Paul Goldsmith as Māori defending diversity of National's Shadow Cabinet
And Collins to take over Mitchell’s SFO role – she’s all over the SFO
Are you saying Poto is only there for diversity?
Wasn’t that's what you were alluding to @10.2 Jimmy?
My recent focus has been more on the behaviour of opposition MPs – mostly the Nats, but also (since November 2020) all those new ACT stars.
link broken
Sorry about that Incognito, and thanks.
https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/26-11-2021/the-five-most-terrible-horrible-no-good-very-bad-days-in-recent-national-party-history
P.S. Here’s another, by Henry Cooke at Stuff.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300464539/four-years-of-opposition-national-partys-years-of-shame-blamed-on-lightweights-and-personal-ambition
What’s a blow to Apple is good for Apple.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/world/468734/eu-agrees-to-single-mobile-charging-port-in-blow-to-apple
Nek minit, a whole new set of lovely iphones for people to upgrade to. Make it right to repair Brussels and then I'll be impressed.
although the OS and software is the sticking point.